[HN Gopher] How bad can a $2.97 ADC be?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How bad can a $2.97 ADC be?
        
       Author : jamesbowman
       Score  : 158 points
       Date   : 2025-10-14 17:12 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (excamera.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (excamera.substack.com)
        
       | q3k wrote:
       | Should be easy to compare - sand down both the cheapo and a legit
       | one (with a similar datecode) with fine sandpaper, clean with
       | isoprop and shove under an optical microscope - you can then tell
       | how similar/dissimilar the dies are, you don't even have to look
       | for markings or anything super legible, or even sand them to the
       | same metal layer.
       | 
       | Clones tend to be vastly different - different technology node,
       | architecture, die size, etc. - that's because they are generally
       | functional clones, not mask clones.
       | 
       | (also, as a general shoutout to the low tech sandpaper technique
       | for exploratory work, here's a sanded down RP2350 thrown under a
       | clapped out SEM: https://object.ceph-
       | eu.hswaw.net/q3k-personal/484e7b33dbdbd9... https://object.ceph-
       | eu.hswaw.net/q3k-personal/3290eef9b6b9ad... )
        
         | cheschire wrote:
         | It may not even be a clone. As the author said, it could just
         | as easily be production line items that were tested and found
         | to be outside of spec tolerances and resold off-label.
        
           | q3k wrote:
           | Well, that's the point of the experiment, to figure out if
           | it's a clone or a reject :).
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | TI makes all their analog stuff in house so that's unlikely.
           | That's far more common for fabless companies that send their
           | parts off to an outside fab.
        
             | cheschire wrote:
             | What does TI do with their out-of-tolerance products?
             | Straight in the garbage?
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | Yes, though depending on the product line it may be
               | binned into lower quality parts first. Remember though,
               | the marginal cost of these chips is so small the
               | packaging is usually more expensive than the silicon.
               | They often get tested before the wafer is even sliced up
               | so any waste is hardly worth mentioning until you get
               | into modern processes with large error rates and huge
               | chips like CPUs.
        
               | 15155 wrote:
               | TI isn't patterning $10000 wafers at 3nm with massive
               | chiplets and questionable yield, they are making mostly
               | commodity ICs on cheaper processes - they can afford to
               | discard rejects.
        
               | Lerc wrote:
               | I think the implied question is do they discard, or do
               | they destroy.
               | 
               | Discarded things tend to get lost. Lost things tend not
               | stay in the Anduin forever.
        
               | LeifCarrotson wrote:
               | > "Discarded things tend to get lost. Lost things tend
               | not to stay in the Anduin forever."
               | 
               | I'll have to put that on a warning label near our non-
               | conforming-product containment shelf!
        
               | pinkmuffinere wrote:
               | Lol I love the deep cut to LOTR! Took me a sec but then
               | brought me so much joy. Viva la nerds!
        
               | Arubis wrote:
               | Binned wafers are viable source material for
               | photovoltaics.
        
         | Hasz wrote:
         | I have done this a bunch of different times, mostly to resolve
         | sourcing disputes. Dissolving in boiling sulphuric acid/nitric
         | acid will make quick work of most epoxy packaging
         | 
         | IMO, I have mostly seen mislabeling, rebinning, and passing off
         | obvious QC rejects.
         | 
         | example from many years ago:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DfBuPwAAA
        
           | q3k wrote:
           | > Dissolving in boiling sulphuric acid/nitric acid will make
           | quick work of most epoxy packaging
           | 
           | That's the better method of course (results wise), but it's
           | not nearly as accessible, hence my recent evangelism of the
           | virtues of 2000 grit sandpaper.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | I like it. I've used sandpaper to solve some interesting
             | problems in the past as well with great success. I suspect
             | we are only seeing the beginnings here in a trend of high-
             | tech applications of fine grit paper.
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | I expect it's _much_ easier to acquire fine sandpaper,
               | yet my inner child yearns for laser decapping. (Or I
               | suppose more than  "decapping", depending on the depth.)
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | High power lasers are becoming more and more affordable.
               | Laser ablation is definitely an option but you really
               | want to have some proper fume extraction around that.
        
               | BertoldVdb wrote:
               | Laser decapping will destroy the die, except if you have
               | a rare package that does not mix glass in the epoxy.
               | 
               | You could still compare the internal structure of the
               | package and bonding, but the die itself is mostly
               | destroyed.
        
               | supportengineer wrote:
               | I'm off to build an MCP so AI can control the sandpaper
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | You may as well start off with one of these then:
               | 
               | https://phillipscorp.com/india/phillipsgrinding/phillips-
               | sur...
               | 
               | All you need is a serial port and some G-codes.
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | I prefer Japanese sharpening stones or those DMT diamond
             | whetstones. It's relative easy to 3d print a jig that
             | converts a woodworking honing guide into an IC holder and
             | you get a feel for how many passes to do very quickly
             | before slowing down and checking each pass.
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | There was a sandpaper expert in that company associated
             | with sour-tasting fruit which shall not be named. I believe
             | you guys have met, though I think by that time he already
             | pivoted to making the perfect cheesecake.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | <NileRed voice> ...I wanted to look at this chip... so first
           | I put it in a jar of hot nitric acid.
        
         | fullstop wrote:
         | I don't know if we can ping people here, but this looks like
         | something that would be right up Ken Shirriff's alley.
         | 
         | 1. https://righto.com
        
           | kens wrote:
           | I have enough projects already, so I'm staying quiet here :-)
        
             | fullstop wrote:
             | I won't tell if you won't tell.
        
       | mindslight wrote:
       | Err, the title isn't really correct. The genuine part is still
       | only $4. This is a 60 cent knockoff. Not having done design in a
       | while but still having a rough feeling for costs I was a bit
       | confused.
        
         | NoiseBert69 wrote:
         | Honestly: no one of the bigger players in the industry pays the
         | prices you see on Digikey/Mouser/Farnell (with the exception
         | maybe for prototyping stuff). Often you have direct delivery
         | contracts with the vendors.
         | 
         | That the ADS1115 costs <$1 on LCSC means they buy millions from
         | them every year. They are one of the biggest trustable players
         | in Asia.
         | 
         | I have access to our internal STM32 pricing. You'd be shocked.
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | H7s for <$1? I get confused whenever people talk about paying
           | $0.69 for an MCU!
        
             | squarefoot wrote:
             | I recalled a few years ago there were shockingly
             | inexpensive MCUs at LCSC and similar far east vendors, but
             | they were never heard before names, so I just checked again
             | out of curiosity and here's a $0.05 one by Cypress.
             | 
             | https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/C2954567.html
        
               | NoiseBert69 wrote:
               | I played around with the RISC-V from WCH.
               | 
               | They are huge step ahead: the upcoming CH32H417 has
               | pretty much all PHYs integrated (!). For 10/100M
               | Ethernet, USB-C 5GBbps and USB HS 480Mbps. That
               | dramatically reduces the components needed to get that
               | stuff running.
               | 
               | I also build a small robot with the ultra cheap CH32V003.
               | That's a full fledged 48MHz microcontroller with 16kb
               | flash and 2kb SRAM. Fun little thing.
               | 
               | If you are used to the ST HAL you will be able to work
               | with them within 10 minutes. Their API style is similar.
        
           | rts_cts wrote:
           | We buy low end STM32s in 10-100k quantities and pay
           | shockingly low prices as you noted and that's through
           | official channels. One of our other suppliers offered us some
           | "compatible" parts that he "might be able to find" for about
           | a quarter of the cost, but we declined.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | Yep people are mostly paying for the added inventory risk and
           | labor when buying from distributors. Anyone with a big enough
           | order to have their own wafer and the time to wait can get it
           | a hell of a lot cheaper, especially for rarer parts that
           | aren't as popular.
           | 
           | One supplier I developed a relationship with showed us their
           | internal numbers and it was $1,000-3,000 per wafer for
           | 130nm-180nm nodes with a minimum order of 25 wafers. Once the
           | part is designed and the mask is made, the cost is mostly
           | just the setup plus whatever they want for the IP. The
           | silicon itself is often cheaper than the packaging around it.
        
         | 0l wrote:
         | LCSC is definitely genuine. I'm not sure why people are so
         | surprised that companies like Mouser have insane markups.
        
           | dorkypunk wrote:
           | Because they are used to the even insaner markup of smaller
           | retailers that would ask 10USD for an IC that cost 5 cents at
           | bulk
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | 4x the price, at approximately 4x the error (12 mV instead of ~3
       | mV on the spec)
       | 
       | Weirdly honest deal, haha.
        
       | throwup238 wrote:
       | _> So what's going on with the cheap parts? My best guess is that
       | these are either quite good copies, or failed parts that somehow
       | made their way into the hobbyist supply chain._
       | 
       | The vast majority of counterfeit chips I've seen were from ghost
       | shifts but IIRC TI fabs all their analog parts in house, I doubt
       | they're ghost shift parts or failed QC.
       | 
       | I think its probably a relabeled ADS1015.
        
         | q3k wrote:
         | Interesting, most of the counterfeits that affect me (eg. FTDI,
         | STM32 clones) have been just straight up clones developed from
         | scratch, not excess inventory / ghost shifts / packaged
         | rejects. I guess it might be a digital/mixed-signal split, with
         | the two worlds having different issues?
         | 
         | (also interestingly the STM32 clones I've seen had stacked die
         | flash because they didn't fab them in a technology that could
         | also do flash, so you can easily tell the counterfeit from
         | sanding down the package and looking for an extra set of
         | bonding wires; it's also a cool place to access the internal
         | flash bus if you wanna bypass some readout protection :) )
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | I remember the mess with FTDI clones back when I was still a
           | hobbyist and buying stuff from eBay, but ever since I've
           | started doing EE professionally I rarely run into anything
           | that bad. You're not going to make a clone Marvell processor
           | for example, but I've run into several ghost shift runs from
           | a distributor.
           | 
           | I don't usually buy from electronics markets in Shenzhen
           | either so that probably helps.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | Buy in bulk from the Shenzhen markets and sellers will be
             | pretty clear that you're getting a clone, and will give you
             | samples of that specific clone so you can QA your product
             | with them. (Some popular devices have multiple clone
             | suppliers).
             | 
             | I now always buy clones where possible - whilst not all
             | features are implemented and some specifications won't be
             | met, the devices seem to match the original for
             | reliability, and sometimes even come with their own cloned
             | modded datasheet.
        
         | jamesbowman wrote:
         | Author here. I did consider this, as others have reported
         | getting ADS1015 marked as ADS1115. If it were an ADS1015 the
         | readout would be truncated at 12 bits. These parts definitely
         | delivered 16 bits of readout.
        
           | hex4def6 wrote:
           | I worry about the demo boards being radically different in
           | terms of layout etc. Even if you're using the same interface
           | and power supply, the PCB may be affecting performance.
           | 
           | Getting full spec performance out of an ADC requires having
           | good layout power supply routing etc.
           | 
           | I would transplant the chips from PCB A to PCB B and vice
           | versa. See if the performance follows the chip or the PCB.
           | 
           | Also check power consumption before / after board swaps. If
           | they are fakes, that would be significantly different.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | It doesn't take much crosstalk from some clock signal into
             | the signal you're measuring to really mess stuff up...
             | 
             | Many of these Dev boards are not produced with as much care
             | or knowledge as the chip design itself.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | Ah oops I missed that. Maybe an ADX111A then?
        
             | gsmecher wrote:
             | Oh my - good find, and also, eek.
             | 
             | Analogy:
             | https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2302211830_analogysemi-
             | ADX11...
             | 
             | TI: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1115.pdf
             | 
             | Analogy's datasheet is directly cribbed from TI's (see TI
             | Fig. 7-7 / Analogy Fig. 221/2, pg. 18).
             | 
             | This already passes my "run away screaming" threshold for
             | trust, but a decapping would help me understand whether
             | they've stolen the physical design (bad) or just cloned it
             | (bad).
             | 
             | See also: https://community.element14.com/members-
             | area/f/forum/53365/n...
        
               | q3k wrote:
               | > or just cloned it (bad)
               | 
               | What's wrong with cloning a chip functionality-wise? This
               | is basically how the industry has operated since its
               | infancy, and what gave us jelly bean logic parts and
               | transistors, x86 and the PC revolution, ...
               | 
               | (just talking about the cloning part here, not
               | counterfeit markings or datasheet copyright infringement,
               | or copying mask work)
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | If it's an open clone that can be reasonably
               | distinguished from software side and from looking at the
               | part _and_ it doesn 't violate IP laws other than
               | software patents, no biggie.
               | 
               | Every clone of any sufficiently complex Thing will have
               | subtle quirks and edge cases compared to the original and
               | as long as I can work around them for only that specific
               | clone model, that's easy.
               | 
               | But clones that have no way of determining if the part is
               | a clone? That's bad to even _exist_ because unscrupulous
               | actors will go and repackage  "legitimate clone" chips
               | into faked originals if the price difference is big
               | enough.
        
               | gsmecher wrote:
               | There's nothing wrong with an open clone when everybody
               | is acting in good faith. (In fact, "good faith" does not
               | even necessarily mean "according to the letter of the law
               | in $jurisdiction". Sometimes the law is an ass.)
               | 
               | However, there's nothing more toxic to an OEM than a
               | vendor relationship founded on dishonesty. I know I
               | shouldn't trust them, they know it too, and even if it
               | seems advantageous at first I shouldn't be surprised when
               | they turn on me.
               | 
               | Since these parts are being sold as genuine TI parts, I
               | don't care whether the clone is physically faithful or
               | just functionally faithful - I should treat it like it's
               | poisonous.
        
       | brcmthrowaway wrote:
       | Has there been any updates on ADC technology? What does SKA/CERN
       | use?
        
         | the__alchemist wrote:
         | Curious too. The part in question has been around for a while.
        
           | lokimedes wrote:
           | My lazy answer is to search for ADC on https://cds.cern.ch
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | Well, if you're trying to measure DC extremely accurately the
         | old stuff is still golden. Multi-slope is the gold standard and
         | no one will sell you one. Delta-sigma get most of the way
         | there.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/upTgM_S5rAQ
         | 
         | And if you want to see CERN's multimeter, check this out.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/D28uSzCs7-k
         | 
         | Marco Reps is a treasure.
        
       | NoiseBert69 wrote:
       | I still have a huge trauma coming from the ESP32 ADC. Why don't
       | they integrate _good_ ADCs? We are waiting for ages now.
       | 
       | Non-linear as hell - and evil side effects once you use the
       | calibration curves.
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | _> Why don 't they integrate good ADCs?_
         | 
         | There are a bunch of reasons but the primary reason is that
         | good ADCs are made using a different mixed signal process than
         | microcontrollers. MCU ADCs are capacitive charge-balancing
         | successive-approximation type which limits their sensitivity
         | and precision.
         | 
         | Standalone ADCs also eliminate significant sources of noise
         | like temperature fluctuations and electronic noise (the digital
         | logic on the chip often runs at less than 1Mhz for example)
        
           | 15155 wrote:
           | Standalone ADCs are often SARADCs as well (and are specified
           | as such.)
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | The ones I've used were mostly delta sigma modulation ADCs.
             | I think charge balancing caps out at 12 bits or so.
        
         | chillingeffect wrote:
         | If hate the esp32 adc, let me introduce you to its "fpu." Or
         | its external flash and memory...
        
           | NoiseBert69 wrote:
           | But no real competition for on-chip Wifi/BLE around.
           | 
           | Only ugly two-chip solutions or hyper exotic stuff with no
           | community.
        
             | bsder wrote:
             | > But no real competition for on-chip Wifi/BLE around.
             | 
             | No competition or no market?
             | 
             | I can't imagine Espressif is selling much volume of these
             | chips.
             | 
             | The fact that they can't even fix their SPI module would
             | tend to indicate that their engineering staff is _very_
             | thin.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | They've sold a billion of the things.
               | 
               | https://www.espressif.com/en/news/1_Billion_Chip_Sales
        
       | Hello9999901 wrote:
       | The price difference could be explained by LCSC purchasing in
       | bulk directly from TI or similar and selling them at lower
       | margins because their volumes are larger. I've seen "clone" chips
       | sold at LCSC, but they're listed under a different brand (I can't
       | recall one off memory unfortunately).
        
         | NoiseBert69 wrote:
         | Never had bigger issues ordering from LCSC. And I buy _a lot_
         | of stuff from them.
        
       | MountDoom wrote:
       | > These are cheap, relatively fast, and not particularly good.
       | While they sport impressive-sounding 12- and 16-bit readouts, the
       | effective number of bits (ENOB) is usually around 8 or 9.
       | 
       | I don't think that's quite accurate for reasonably modern MCUs.
       | You can typically shake 10+ bits out of them, but you need to
       | take a lot of precautions, such as providing very stable external
       | reference voltage and shutting down unneeded subsystems of the
       | chip.
       | 
       | They're still not as good as standalone ADCs, but they're at a
       | point where you can actually use them for 90% of things that
       | require an ADC.
       | 
       | In cases where you need more bits, there's a lot more that must
       | go into the design, which is what gives me a pause about the
       | article. There's nothing about the PSU the author is using or how
       | he managed the MCU noise and RFI. So I don't know if the findings
       | here are that these are knock-off devices with worse specs, or if
       | his overhead LED lamp is causing a lot of interference.
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | I tested a few STM32F103 dev boards, using a Siglent SDM3055
         | multimeter and Siglent SPD330X power supply.
         | 
         | The chip has a 12bit SAR ADC. Layout and board design mattered
         | a lot, but even the worst ones had 10 bits worth, and the best
         | one had nearly 12 bits effective.
         | 
         | That was without doing too much on the software side, meaning
         | the other modules weren't running, besides a single serial
         | output. On the bad boards the serial affected it, but on the
         | good board very little.
        
         | parsimo2010 wrote:
         | I think you might both be right- the author may be thinking of
         | lower cost MCUs only aiming for tolerable ADC performance,
         | while you might be thinking of all MCUs, even higher cost.
         | 
         | The RP2350 has 9.2 ENOB on a 12 bit ADC. Sure, you might be
         | able to decimate multiple samples to get more bits out of them,
         | but the spec sheet supports the author's claim
         | (https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/pico-
         | sdk/hardware....). There are even lower cost MCUs like the
         | CH32V003 that have even worse ADC performance.
         | 
         | On the other hand, some MCUs can definitely do 10+ bits, such
         | as the STM32H7 line which gets 13+ ENOB from a 16 bit ADC. This
         | is impressive, but the H7 MCUs are literally an order of
         | magnitude more expensive than the RP2350, so they might not be
         | something the author tinkers with much.
         | https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00628458-g...
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this.
         | 
         | The paragraph ending with "Compare that with a microcontroller
         | ADC with a fixed 3.3 V range: 9 ENOB steps are ~6 mV" also
         | seems to insinuate that no MCU has an analog reference that's
         | independent from the supply, which just isn't true at all.
         | Hell, NXP has a few that have a built-in _programmable_
         | reference.
        
       | the__alchemist wrote:
       | Ooh this is interesting! I've seen some big price differences
       | between Digikey and LCSC at small volumes; not sure! You can also
       | sometimes buy direct from TI.
       | 
       | Of interest from early in the article: I'm curious how these
       | external ones compare to onboard, e.g. STM32's. Btw, the TI one
       | listed is actually pretty simple to use in comparison. The ST
       | integrated ones have more config and hardware considerations,
       | e.g. complicated calibration procedures, external VREF
       | (mentioned) etc. So, if you do app the config, is the integrated
       | one as good?
       | 
       | The integrated ones usually have nice ways to integrate with
       | timers and other onboard periphs.
        
       | ZeroConcerns wrote:
       | Well, I guess a whole-three-genuine-US-dollars is actually pretty
       | expensive for an ADC, and that the person-in-charge-of-your-BOM
       | in one of the countries that can actually still manufacture
       | things can get one for _way_ less than that.
       | 
       | Does it work? Well, does your design power up during factory
       | testing, and then pass whatever things your rig (hope you made a
       | few!) has in mind? Well, then, yes, in fact it does...
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | These numbers add up fast when you have dozens or hundreds of
         | components on your board. A $3 part is often one of the most
         | expensive items on a board! If you're trying to get something
         | shipped to consumers for $20 each, with an enclosure,
         | packaging, shipping, retail markup, and profit...that's a huge
         | price disparity.
         | 
         | Also, and perhaps more importantly, the test rig is a lot
         | simpler and a lot cheaper if you can generally trust
         | manufacturer data. Sure, send off a few samples (likely
         | prototypes with parts from Digikey instead of LCSC) to run
         | extended testing in an environmental chamber with thermal
         | imaging, build an endurance test rig that pushes the button
         | once a second for four weeks to simulate once-daily use for
         | years, whatever you want to do...but after that, if TI says
         | it's good from -40 to +125, you're going to trust them on a lot
         | of the edge cases.
         | 
         | Do 100% testing of the things you can test in-circuit if you
         | can - power it up at room temperature and make sure it works
         | once - but that doesn't mean you get the actual rated
         | performance across all published environmental conditions.
        
       | RobKohr wrote:
       | ADC = Analog to digital converter
       | 
       | Takes an analog signal from something like light or sound and
       | convert it into a digital signal.
       | 
       | Acronyms introduced in an article should be spelled out at least
       | once please.
        
         | slices wrote:
         | I thought they were talking about League of Legends players,
         | whoops
        
       | abraae wrote:
       | I'd like to know more about the world of ADCs. I've used the
       | ADS1115 with success but only at very slow speeds.
       | 
       | On the current project we started with an MCP3208 via SPI. It did
       | the job but only has 8 channels and it's slow (100K samples per
       | sec).
       | 
       | To get something faster we switched to ADS7953. It has 16
       | channels and runs 10 times faster. It's somewhat more complex to
       | code, and you can only get the highest sample rate if you scan
       | the inputs in a predictable order. But it sure flies.
       | 
       | To me, these chips feel like cars. The ADS7953 is somewhat of a
       | ferrari, whereas the MCP3208 feels like a Toyota, simple to use,
       | unimpressive performance.
       | 
       | I'd love to know the industry background about how these
       | varieties of ADC chips came to be and carved their own space in
       | the world, and how widely they are used (millions? billions?).
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | > To get something faster we switched to ADS7953. It has 16
         | channels and runs 10 times faster.
         | 
         | I recall reading about a project at CERN to design a 12bit ADC
         | chip that could sample at tens of GHz, maybe 50 or more.
         | 
         | I was perplexed at how they could achieve this.
         | 
         | Turned out it was the same we programmers do. Parallel
         | processing.
         | 
         | They had taken a 12bit SAR unit which ran at like MHz rates,
         | and just cloned it _many_ times. They then had a large analog
         | multiplexer in front to route the signal to the active ADC unit
         | in a round-robin fashion.
         | 
         | That takes a lot of chip real-estate, and the analog muxer had
         | to be carefully designed.
         | 
         | For a simpler approach to speed there is Flash ADCs[1], which
         | kinda brute-force it.
         | 
         | For precision I know multi-slope ADCs[2] are often used.
         | 
         | Sadly I don't know much about the history, and would also love
         | to learn more about it. Bound to be some fascinating stories
         | there.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_ADC
         | 
         | [2]: https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-
         | seminars/tutorials/...
        
           | cycomanic wrote:
           | You can buy ADCs at over 100 GS/s (keysight, teledyne and
           | tektronix make oscilloscopes using them), however typical
           | ENOBs are more around 5 bits for these. For people interested
           | in this stuff, I there is a video of someone taking apart one
           | of the high speed keysight scopes (I think signal path is the
           | YouTube channel?).
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | An oscilloscope is IMO just a user interface for an ADC.
             | The adc is where the hard engineering lies, and the bit
             | which should command 90% of the cost.
             | 
             | Unfortunately this isn't the case - the company designing
             | the plastic case and buttons gets the lions share of the
             | money.
        
               | Junk_Collector wrote:
               | Keysight at least, has a fab where they make their own
               | ADCs. Those are something like ENOB 6, 10 bit raw up to
               | 120GHz and are used in their oscilloscopes but can also
               | be purchased standalone.
               | 
               | Oscilloscopes also have a significant amount of
               | additional front end conditioning, probe control, channel
               | timing, and analysis software built into them. Most of
               | the math functions on oscilloscopes use custom ASICs that
               | work off the raw bits coming from the 120GHz digitizer
               | which is non-trivial even just to receive. Calling it a
               | plastic case around a digitizer is disingenuous.
        
             | Junk_Collector wrote:
             | I think you are thinking of this video:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXYje2B04xE
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | (CERN does a ton of cool electronics design, I didn't realize
           | how much modern physics _is_ electrical engineering).
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | > The ADS7953 is somewhat of a ferrari, whereas the MCP3208
         | feels like a Toyota, simple to use, unimpressive performance.
         | 
         | What about the AD9226? It only has a single channel but can do
         | up to 65 MSa/s at 12 bits. I bought one as a module for around
         | $12 on AliExpress to experiment with software decoding of
         | analog video. I only run it at 20 MSa/s and only use 8 bits
         | because, funnily enough, the limiting factor is the speed at
         | which I could get the data into my laptop. I connected it to a
         | Raspberry Pi Zero and use the SMI peripheral as described here:
         | https://iosoft.blog/2020/07/16/raspberry-pi-smi/
        
           | theamk wrote:
           | For the curious: that blogpost does not mention the Pi model
           | explicitly, but one of the links refers to BCM2835. This
           | means Raspberry Pi Model 1.
        
             | abraae wrote:
             | The article does reference pi 3b and zero W.
        
           | abraae wrote:
           | That is very interesting, especially using SMI to talk to
           | rpi. Never seen SMI used in anger before.
        
         | NoiseBert69 wrote:
         | Ultra high-speed ADCs are extremely ugly to handle with
         | microcontrollers. That's mostly FPGA territory: toggle its
         | pins, suck the data from the ADC and offer them on a friendly
         | parallel bus for a microcontroller (USBC->Parallel interface
         | from FTDI).
         | 
         | They need a lot of pins to be toggled. Otherwise they spit out
         | no data.
         | 
         | And a lot of manual stuff means it's super DMA unfriendly. And
         | you need DMA for high-speed stuff.
        
           | Neywiny wrote:
           | Still unsure if the lifcl-33U will make it into these
           | products. Integrated 5gbps phy
        
       | dazhbog wrote:
       | Digikey's markup is the issue.. most people in Asia buy from lcsc
       | or agents, that can get parts 2-10 times cheaper.. In this case
       | both parts are genuine just different batch/year/production
       | location probably..
        
       | a-dub wrote:
       | i wonder if the clock performance is worse too...
        
       | cushychicken wrote:
       | OP is making comments about poor performance single cycle of a
       | sigma delta ADC.
       | 
       | Single cycle readings defeat the point of sigma delta ADC setups.
       | 
       | You're taking many high noise samples and averaging them over
       | time to get a better picture of the average voltage.
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | OP is using the chip with the data rate set to 8 samples per
         | second.
         | 
         | Natively/internally, it runs at 860 samples per second, and you
         | can configure it to provide that data at a lower sample rate at
         | lower noise levels by averaging multiple readings together
         | internally.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > Single cycle readings defeat the point of sigma delta ADC
         | setups.
         | 
         | The ADC's internal delta-sigma ADC takes a lot of samples at a
         | much higher modulation frequency and presents them as a single
         | output value.
         | 
         | You do not get the direct delta-sigma output from an ADC like
         | this. The internal logic handles that for you. It's okay to
         | take single samples of the output.
        
       | zsellera wrote:
       | Most companies have region-specific price lists. My Spotify
       | subscription costs about 60% of what the same plan costs in the
       | US (2200 HUF vs. 11 USD). In the electronics industry, everyone
       | has a separate price list for China.
       | 
       | Btw. the western list price is just an indicative at-most number
       | anyway. Even a small-sized project gets discounted prices when
       | you start talking to a sales rep.
        
       | torginus wrote:
       | Why would it be bad for that price? Highly accurate ADCs are
       | pretty easy to make, provided you don't need a high sample rate,
       | thanks to the magic of signal processing. Delta-sigma ADCs, and
       | ramp ADCs can use a single bit of digital input + some pattern
       | hold circuitry to do incredibly accurate measurements, it's just
       | they take some time.
       | 
       | If you want a flash ADC that can do 16 bit (and can do 16 bit at
       | 100Mhz), however you'll have to probably mortgage your house.
        
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