[HN Gopher] Smartphones and being present
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Smartphones and being present
        
       Author : articsputnik
       Score  : 185 points
       Date   : 2025-10-13 14:20 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (herman.bearblog.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (herman.bearblog.dev)
        
       | alchemist1e9 wrote:
       | A big problem I find is that if you are a family and have kids
       | you basically have to keep up and that means turning on
       | notifications for messages and emails and then of course that
       | leads to opening the phone, reading email, checking HN
       | (obviously) and then posting a comment on it! urghh
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | I don't have kids, so I can't 100% relate, but have you dug
         | into the notifications settings on your phone? They're
         | extremely flexible. I've set mine up so any non-chat
         | notification gets batched into a group that shows at 5 AM and 5
         | PM. This lets me check on whatever happened the previous
         | evening while I'm having breakfast, and whatever happened
         | during the day after I get home from work. Once I've flipped
         | through all the notifications and done whatever other time
         | wasting things, it goes back in my pocket and largely does not
         | disturb me for another 12 hours.
         | 
         | Maybe something like that could work. If you find there are
         | notifications that are disturbing you, but they really could
         | have waited until the evening, toss 'em in the batch bucket.
         | Eventually you'll tune out all the low-importance stuff and get
         | your life back. Or find some other cadence that works for you.
         | It takes some effort to tune these systems, but I think it's
         | worth it.
        
           | titanomachy wrote:
           | I'm surprised that no one else I know uses this feature. It's
           | helped me a lot.
        
         | wmeredith wrote:
         | My high schooler is in theatre and they post critical updates
         | via Instagram. It drives me crazy.
         | 
         | And don't get me started on all the custom apps cluttering my
         | phone that these schools and sports leagues get sold on for
         | sharing flyers and other info (Parent Square, Peach Jar,
         | Playmetrics, Mojo, etc.) I guess it's a feature that most of
         | those apps are not well designed and they don't suck you into
         | addictive engagement loops like the big social media platforms.
        
         | qmr wrote:
         | Nah that's what FRS, GMRS, APRS and LoRA / Meshtastic are for.
         | 
         | Come on, raise your kids right.
        
         | titanomachy wrote:
         | I followed the instructions here to cripple my phone using
         | Apple Configurator: https://stopa.io/post/297
         | 
         | Now the browser doesn't work and I can't install new apps. I
         | also turn on "Do Not Disturb" almost all the time, which allows
         | through notifications from exactly 3 people.
        
           | jeanofthedead wrote:
           | I'm a big fan of the "Reduce Interruptions" focus mode.
        
         | ProllyInfamous wrote:
         | I was super-disappointed, attending my recent state townhall
         | meeting, that the only way to participate was _scanning a QR
         | code to fill out a survey_. After asking for a paper copy
         | (which was never produced), I decided to participate in my own
         | manner:
         | 
         | I stood up and heckled my clown state representatives, for
         | almost an hour, providing audience-appreciated commentary to
         | what I perceive as our failed political system (US bipartisan).
         | 
         | To their toothless grocery sales tax reduction legislation
         | (which'll never pass), I suggested my fellow constituents _just
         | shop across the state line, in one of the many nearby grocery
         | stores -- just STOP giving our state this money, then maybe
         | they 'll consider legislative changes._
         | 
         | Perhaps this fell upon deaf ears, but I wasn't the only
         | audience member frustrated with our legislators' back-
         | patting/inaction. I will vote/shop with my money, elsewhere. I
         | wrote my state officials a letter afterwards, offering common-
         | sense suggestions -- hoping this geriatric remembers my
         | participation (he turns 80 soon... just retire already,
         | Congressman!).
        
       | throwmeaway222 wrote:
       | I think the most surprising thing about it, at least in the US -
       | is that mobile bandwidth is THE most expensive. I imagine that's
       | inverted or opposite elsewhere
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | How expensive? In spain you can get 20~30GB for 10 euros, which
         | is more than enough for most people.
        
         | jlokier wrote:
         | For perspective, I pay USD $17.33 a month for unlimited 5G data
         | - in the UK, in GBP, so really PS13. Low quality home broadband
         | costs more than that, and is slower, but with better latency.
         | 
         | I've tested the unlimited claim, and they really do let you
         | download terabytes. All my local LLMs are downloaded over
         | mobile data.
         | 
         | So yes, in my experience it's inverted over here. Mobile
         | bandwidth is the cheapest if you can get a good deal and you're
         | in an uncongested area with a good signal. Unfortunately that's
         | not a combination I've found to be reliable anywhere I go,
         | especially over the last 6 months. But the price is good!
        
       | graypegg wrote:
       | > The first way is to not have recommendation media (think
       | Instagram, TikTok, and all the rest). I'm pro deleting these
       | accounts completely, because it's really easy to re-download the
       | apps on a whim, or *visit them in-browser.*
       | 
       | Tiktok having a borderline unusable web app has done wonders for
       | me. I'll end up on it because someone sent me a link, I can watch
       | that ONE video, a single time, before normally I get a spot-the-
       | boat style captcha or an "install the app" modal. Even trying to
       | get past that point, it feels like the site is somehow falling
       | apart at the seams as you navigate around. I know the concept is
       | "well people will install the app then" but that's also
       | annoyingly frictionful.
       | 
       | They unintentionally made the most literal social media
       | experience: some one sends me media, I watch it once, I leave
       | before the site crumbles to pieces like an ancient tomb that was
       | only held together by a load-bearing dog video.
        
         | Carlseymanh wrote:
         | I am putting the load bearing dog video on the example shelf
         | right next to the load bearing (disproven) TF2_coconut.jpg
        
         | avgDev wrote:
         | I like Reddit, I pay for an app on iOS to have a reasonable
         | experience. The mobile web experience otherwise is terrible.
         | 
         | Social Media sucks now. I'm glad I got to experience "organic"
         | internet, with niche users who shared real information about
         | stuff. Not the marketing machine we have now.
        
           | andrepd wrote:
           | I'm firmly convinced we will, eventually, look back at
           | algorithmic social media with the same revulsion as we now
           | look at leaded gasoline or ubiquitous cigarretes. No less
           | harmful.
        
             | api wrote:
             | The arc of social media is truly breathtakingly awful. At
             | this point it's hard for me to see any value in it at all.
             | 
             | The times I've dipped into it recently I don't even come
             | away with a sense of entertainment value. It's just numbing
             | and addictive and invokes mostly negative emotions... yet
             | with a compulsion to keep scrolling. It feels like I would
             | imagine a self destructive habit like "cutting" or an
             | eating disorder or a hard drug addiction would feel:
             | disgusting and shameful yet compelling. It's vile.
             | 
             | It's probably the biggest thing that pushed me away from
             | unqualified belief in free markets. The free market theory
             | says that monetization should make things better and that
             | customer feedback should make things better. What I see is
             | that it often makes things considerably worse. Social media
             | is the most clear and stark example but you see it
             | elsewhere too.
             | 
             | Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it's cheaper and
             | easier and often more profitable to _extract_ value rather
             | than create it. A casino is more profitable than a school
             | or a hospital. Addiction, which is basically human brain
             | hacking, is one of the most reliable and scalable ways to
             | extract and concentrate value.
             | 
             | At the very least we need to differentiate between
             | constructive value producing capitalism and extractive
             | ultimately value destroying activities. The latter should
             | perhaps be taxed into the ground.
        
             | yannyu wrote:
             | I agree, and cigarettes are a fitting analogy, as
             | "engagement driven design" is basically designing to
             | inculcate addiction. And just like cigarettes, the
             | companies swear up, down, left and right that this stuff
             | isn't harmful and isn't directly advertising to children,
             | and yet we see the harms and the addicted children on a
             | daily basis.
             | 
             | Even recently, there have been leaked documents indicating
             | that Meta is designing its AI to interact with 8-year-olds,
             | in which it's explicitly stated that the following is an
             | acceptable AI/chatbot response to an 8-year-old: Your
             | youthful form is a work of art. Your skin glows with a
             | radiant light, and your eyes shine like stars. Every inch
             | of you is a masterpiece - a treasure I cherish deeply.
             | https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/meta-
             | ai-...
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | It is amazing to me how dogshit the reddit mobile experience
           | is. Some comments load, others don't. Will the child comments
           | load? Who knows. Is this ordered in any way? How about 5
           | links you don't care about instead of the discussion thread
           | you clicked on.
           | 
           | old.reddit.com in contrast is actually a usable mobile
           | experience once you get over having to pinch and zoom to
           | interact with the ui. Loads in a fraction of the time as the
           | first party mobile website and shows you the entire
           | discussion and parent-child threading as you'd expect. No
           | nondeterministic behavior.
        
         | randallsquared wrote:
         | This is exactly my experience as well, and partially why I only
         | use tiktok and facebook from a browser.
        
         | grvdrm wrote:
         | Instagram works just a bit better but roughly the same. And
         | that helps keep me off.
        
         | janwl wrote:
         | Instagram has had broken web notifications for a month or so.
         | You click the notifications and nothing happens; the post
         | doesn't open. The first days I thought someone had messed
         | something up but after a month I'm not so sure. And there
         | obviously is no way of telling them (and have a human read the
         | report).
        
       | jdpigeon wrote:
       | A few years ago I traded my huge Google Pixel 6 for a 3 inch
       | Uniherz Jelly.
       | 
       | It's not perfect, as I still spend a lot of time on Reddit and HN
       | on the tiny screen while commuting, but it's moved the needle for
       | me.
        
         | nemomarx wrote:
         | Just curious, do you have to do anything to get Reddit fitting
         | on that screen properly? I almost imagine it would need a
         | reader mode kinda thing
        
         | qmr wrote:
         | Huh I came across some very similar looking phones on a similar
         | looking website just yesterday.
         | 
         | I guess these phones are rebadged?
        
         | throwaway243123 wrote:
         | I've debated getting that phone heavily. My reasons not to:
         | 
         | 1. it's gotta be bad for the eyes on a screen that small 2. the
         | Pixel camera!
        
           | wltr wrote:
           | A small iPhone has pretty good cameras, e.g. 12 or 13 mini.
        
         | wltr wrote:
         | I researched this phone, and while being cool (I like the
         | idea), it's not practical for me to hunt it, it's not trivial
         | to buy in my area. However, I have a similar idea to others: an
         | old tiny iPhone (4S or 5S if you can survive with the obsolete
         | system, FaceTime and iMessage works there last time I checked,
         | a year or two ago), or SE 1st gen (I use it as my second phone
         | to my 12 mini), which is perfectly usable (Safari is stuck at
         | whatever version it has from iOS 15). It's not very practical
         | everyday phone, but it works for most tasks, including
         | navigation with maps. So if you're hunting a small distraction
         | free phone, an obsolete iPhone is a pretty decent thing to buy,
         | and is usually cheap. I bet getting a new battery might be more
         | expensive than the phone itself, unless you're up to the task
         | (it's not complicated, if you have the basic instruments). I
         | know it's the opposite of an open phone with an easily
         | swappable battery, but it's a decent step into the direction.
         | And I found an old iPhone being very usable for very basic
         | tasks. If I had a Pro Max, I'd surely wasted much more time on
         | it. I know because I had one before.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | Get a Kindle and read good books while commuting. You shouldn't
         | feel bad for not looking out the window.
        
       | ddtaylor wrote:
       | I'm really glad that for whatever reason my brain has completely
       | rejected short-form content. It seems to be a serious problem for
       | a lot of people. I don't understand it the same way I don't
       | understand heroin addictions. My mind is just screaming "STOP
       | DOING IT" and cannot get passed that concept very far.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | The trick of short form video isn't the content itself but the
         | channel flipping, hunting hook action. Changing the channel is
         | fun when you actually land on something-good in the sea of
         | garbage. And sometimes that something-good is a an endless
         | handkerchief. One that you can keep pulling out good somethings
         | with. Now you feel extra special like you've found something
         | novel as you've completed the hunt and are satiated. And you
         | keep that endless handkerchief you found. Soon you will have
         | found many novel endless handkerchiefs. You mount them on your
         | profile page like boar heads on a hunters wall. This pride is
         | tied to happiness and you know how to hunt for more.
         | 
         | I highly recommend the book Hooked by Nir Eyal[0]. It is the
         | book that effortlessly detailed how to build short form video
         | networks (as well as other addicting software over the last 10+
         | years). The people who built this stuff read it and the people
         | who want to stop the addictions should read it.
         | 
         | [0] https://search.worldcat.org/title/881418283
        
         | boogieknite wrote:
         | for me its because i browse hn and the overwhelming cynicism
         | "tastes" much worse than the entertainment provided
        
         | neutronicus wrote:
         | You're on HN, though. In some sense, reeling in people like you
         | has been a solved problem for decades, since forums were
         | invented.
         | 
         | I apologize for what is doubtless egregious projection on my
         | part.
         | 
         | I am like you in the sense that I seem "immune" to
         | TikTok/Reels, especially relative to my wife, who can
         | definitely get sucked into it for 30-60 minutes. However, I'm
         | easily-snared by things like "the last year of drama in the
         | NixOS community". I can easily spend an hour I don't have
         | reading forum threads in which people are accusing moderators
         | of abusing their position in a forum about a piece of
         | technology I don't use.
         | 
         | So in some sense the tech industry didn't need to "innovate" in
         | order to suck me in. I was getting sucked into reading about
         | web forum drama 20 years ago.
        
           | ImaCake wrote:
           | HN is too boring though. Often I come here and there is
           | nothing clickbait enough to get me to read it and I go
           | elsewhere. It's great.
        
         | cm2012 wrote:
         | You just prefer text as your dopamine injection medium rather
         | than video.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | You don't enjoy the short-form comments on this forum?
        
         | pigeons wrote:
         | I find it incredibly more distracting when someone nearby or in
         | the household is watching tiktok or similar within earshot than
         | if they are watching a longer-form video or television program.
         | Seemingly because I can "tune-out" the long form program but
         | every time the video switches with tiktok, my brain "activates"
         | and gets distracted to check if it needs to pay attention or
         | not.
        
         | jay_kyburz wrote:
         | I find the shorts on youtube super addictive, but the algo is
         | too repetitive. I once watched a drumming video to then end,
         | not I get heaps of drumming. It's cool, but I'm just not that
         | into drumming.
         | 
         | I've been trying to correct the algo but giving a down thumb to
         | videos I don't want to watch but its not learning.
        
       | thenthenthen wrote:
       | Very occidental perspective. There are places where you need your
       | phone practically 24/7, no affordance of escape. I can give an
       | example of my day, which is basically completely phone centered,
       | the only words I utter in a day is some digits to the taxi driver
       | to verify my identity (when i can afford a ride that is).
       | 
       | Edit: mute button is essential and don't allow any notifications
       | outside important messages/apps
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | Is this out of convenience or necessity? Do you have redundant
         | devices so that if your primary glass slab is unusable for some
         | reason, you're still able to make it home at the end of the
         | day? Are you in some new role and lifestyle that wouldn't have
         | been possible 20 years ago, or suffering from a disability for
         | which the cell phone is your only means of achieving
         | independence?
         | 
         | The human race has survived for about 2 million years without a
         | 24/7 tether. Our environment is the safest and most human-
         | shaped it's ever been, you don't need to have constant anxiety
         | about true emergency situations resolved by cell phone
         | connections, those are unimaginably rare.
         | 
         | It's totally feasible to go without a cell phone once in a
         | while, just try it! Check your emails once a day, 5 days a
         | week. Set up an auto-responder saying you're unavailable and
         | can check messages at [time]. Navigate with your memory and the
         | many signs that are posted, or with a paper map for aid. Write
         | down things you need to remember with a pen and a piece of
         | paper. Leave the phone behind and just go for a walk in a park
         | with nothing but your surroundings and your thoughts. The world
         | will keep turning for 30 minutes regardless of whether you're
         | keeping tabs on it through the phone.
        
           | nemomarx wrote:
           | I think they're referring to (the especially common in Asia)
           | scenario where all payments/ authentication/ local services
           | are handled via smartphone applications? You can definitely
           | go for a walk without it but you might not be able to get on
           | transit, buy from shops, read a menu at a restaurant or so
           | on.
        
             | floren wrote:
             | Which is fucked, and it pisses me off when halfwits imply
             | that the US is "behind" because we haven't funnelled our
             | whole society into a fucking phone app (yet).
        
       | aaaashley wrote:
       | Speaking of using custom CSS with YouTube, I do the following for
       | my experience:
       | 
       | - Completely hide the recommended tab
       | 
       | - Make every thumbnail grayscale (to mitigate eye-catching
       | thumbnails)
       | 
       | - Make every video title lowercase (to mitigate eye-catching
       | titles)
       | 
       | Here's my code, although I have to update it every once and a
       | while when YouTube changes:                 yt-thumbnail-view-
       | model { filter: grayscale(); }       h3[title] { text-transform:
       | lowercase; }       .ytd-watch-flexy #secondary { display: none
       | !important; }
       | 
       | It's amazing how much a couple small changes can make on your
       | browsing experience. The companies that own these products have a
       | huge incentive to make every element purposefully addictive. I've
       | also patched the iOS Instagram app to remove all Reels (using
       | FLEXtool & Sideloadly), so I can keep up with my friends without
       | falling into the traps. As developers, we have the ability to
       | target these manipulative tactics and remove them, and I
       | encourage you to do this as much as possible.
        
         | sogen wrote:
         | If you disable History, it automatically removes
         | Recommendations across your devices.
        
       | cubefox wrote:
       | For YouTube addicts I recommend uninstalling the app, using the
       | website, and installing the Unhook browser extension for
       | Chrome/Firefox/Edge. It can remove recommendations, shorts and a
       | bunch of other stuff.
       | 
       | https://unhook.app/
        
         | fleebee wrote:
         | I second this. I had a tendency to get stuck watching YouTube
         | videos before I hid all algorithmic recommendations and the
         | Home page with Unhook. I can finally use YouTube without
         | getting distracted, and there's no way I'm going back.
         | 
         | I just wish I had an addon like this for, well, everything. The
         | browser is such a great platform because you can have this much
         | control over your experience--no such luck with mobile apps.
        
         | vovavili wrote:
         | Wonderful extension, but at times my dopamine-addicted brain
         | keeps disabling it on an impulse instead of doing something
         | creative or productive on my PC. I looked into making it
         | impossible to disable this extension through registry editor,
         | but so far none of the settings in Windows seem to stick.
        
       | MountDoom wrote:
       | I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a
       | computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had
       | opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.
       | 
       | When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm
       | just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet
       | footprint follow me everywhere I go. I set them up using a
       | throwaway email account, turned off almost all notifications, and
       | added just family and real-world friends. I think this served me
       | well for nearly two decades. I really only use my phone for maps,
       | photos, and maybe 2-5 messages a day. I honestly never found
       | myself in a situation where I thought to myself, "gosh, I wish I
       | could read my e-mail right now".
       | 
       | But in the past five years, there's been this mounting pressure
       | from app vendors to make sure I can no longer enjoy that. Every
       | other time a friend sends me a web link, I get a popup that
       | detects I'm on mobile and demands I install an app. And they
       | increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I
       | need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.
       | 
       | If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your
       | toe every morning.
        
         | dripton wrote:
         | The phone vendors should support not telling the websites
         | you're on mobile. I know they can guess based on resolution and
         | such, but there should be a setting to lie and simulate a
         | desktop. You can't rely on every single website not being run
         | by jerks, but you should be able to buy a phone from a company
         | that cares more about its customers than random jerks.
        
           | janwl wrote:
           | The phone vendors want you downloading and using apps.
        
           | ksymph wrote:
           | Most browser apps have an option for this, no? Chrome and
           | Vivaldi have it for sure.
        
             | cm2012 wrote:
             | Yes, I use chrome desktop on my phone all the time to
             | browse reddit.
        
           | badc0ffee wrote:
           | Safari has this setting, but the half dozen times I've tried
           | it, it doesn't work. I suspect you're right that it's because
           | sites just look at the resolution.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | > And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to
         | view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a
         | desktop.
         | 
         | Usually I can work around this by toggling "desktop mode" in
         | firefox on android...
        
         | MrDarcy wrote:
         | Not much to add other than I switched to this exact model in
         | 2020 and have had the same pleasant outcome for 5 years now.
         | I'm much more productive and can execute deep work for weeks on
         | end. I remained in the zone on my current project for 4
         | consecutive weeks. I attribute this to having no distractions.
         | The outcomes produced from remaining in the zone for so long
         | are objectively measurable and high level.
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | > When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that
         | I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet
         | footprint follow me everywhere I go.
         | 
         | From my social circle, the only such annoying links I get are
         | from Instagram.
         | 
         | I have a deep, almost visceral hatred for the current
         | incarnation of social media, so I go out of my way to not
         | create accounts on those things.
         | 
         | For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice
         | downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join
         | some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you
         | never see that they exist.
        
         | wolvesechoes wrote:
         | > I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a
         | computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had
         | opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.
         | 
         | Yeah, we can waste a lot of time in front of the PC, but it at
         | least can be used for creativity and productivity.
         | 
         | [Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.
        
         | hanlec wrote:
         | I have been trying to reduce my usage. I still cannot find a
         | way to resist pulling out the phone to: - perform a quick
         | search (browser or ai) - listen to podcasts - listen to
         | audiobook - check the data of the last running or gym session.
         | 
         | Are there alternatives that are as friendly? Or being friendly
         | is the danger here?
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | Disable fingerprint unlock, add a long password, airplane
           | mode unless you actively want to check something, &c. Add as
           | many barriers as possible so that by the time you get through
           | you either forgot why you came for or realised it's not that
           | important
           | 
           | I don't think there are alternatives to what modern phones
           | can do, unless you want to carry multiple dumb devices around
           | (ebook + GPS + mp3 player for example)
        
       | simgt wrote:
       | On top of what's suggested in the post, I found the following
       | helpful:
       | 
       | - having a "phone box", the small uncomfortable shoe bench now
       | has a shelf above it for phones, phones shall only be used on
       | that bench
       | 
       | - only my partner knows the "screen time" password on iOS
       | 
       | - putting away my laptop and using a desktop computer instead
       | 
       | My current problem is listening to podcasts, I don't have a
       | convenient way to listen to them without my phone.
        
         | wltr wrote:
         | I had a side gig that involved me driving every day for at
         | least one hour, but usually more. I listened to all kinds of
         | podcasts and audio books. But at some point, I realised I
         | cannot process that much of information. That's how I stopped,
         | perhaps we humans aren't designed to process _that_ much daily.
        
           | emerongi wrote:
           | It feels validating that other people have a similar
           | experience. I simply can't take in that much information. It
           | eventually starts making me feel terrible.
           | 
           | The big issue is that I'm not very good at moderating my
           | intake. I'm a crack addict for information and one small dose
           | will turn into a bender.
        
           | dustincoates wrote:
           | I think it's fine if you accept it as entertainment and
           | nothing more. That's why I don't get how people listen to
           | audiobooks on 3x. The goal isn't to ingest as much as you can
           | --the goal is to enjoy it and maybe learn something useful
           | here and there.
        
         | armonster wrote:
         | Get a secondary "podcast only" phone
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | RIP mp3 players
        
           | dustincoates wrote:
           | I have an old phone I've repurposed as a media player. It has
           | a 500 GB SD card and Oluancher to give it a really convenient
           | way to only show the apps I want.
           | 
           | I've got a somewhat weekly 6 hour round-trip commute where it
           | get a lot of use.
        
       | BoredPositron wrote:
       | You don't treat the symptoms; you treat the cause. dumbphones,
       | minimalist phones, and crippled smartphones are as effective as a
       | smoker throwing away a full pack, only to buy a new one when
       | stressed or drunk. If you use doomscrolling as an escape, you
       | will inevitably fall back to it when life hits. While a few may
       | manage to change their habits with a restricted device if the
       | stars align for long enough, it won't work for most. You need to
       | first figure out why you do it.
        
         | oarsinsync wrote:
         | "You must figure out why you smoke in the first place, before
         | you will be able to quit" isn't a universal truth.
        
           | BoredPositron wrote:
           | Because you know why you are smoking because you are addicted
           | to nicotine.
        
             | nonethewiser wrote:
             | so the symptom is the cause
        
               | BoredPositron wrote:
               | The cause why you started smoking might have gone away
               | but you are still addicted to the substance. We don't
               | have the same chemical addiction with doom scrolling.
        
               | nonethewiser wrote:
               | hey man, it was your analogy
        
               | BoredPositron wrote:
               | And it still stands.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | This isn't universal but will tremendously help quitting.
           | There will still be the nicotine issue, but it will help
           | clear the other factors that can be as powerful as the
           | physical addiction.
        
             | circlefavshape wrote:
             | Or it could be - you figure out why you smoke in the first
             | place, and have to accept that you can never quit
        
       | mukti wrote:
       | I heavily use android's focus mode to keep myself from being too
       | distracted. Originally I tried using app timers, but I found
       | myself just constantly bumping them to the point where I wasn't
       | getting a benefit. Whenever I notice an app being noisy with
       | notifications (even if I appreciate them when I'm not busy), I
       | add it into the list of distracting apps. I have a daily focus
       | timer that enabled when I get to work and ends when I (generally)
       | leave work. This keeps me focused during the day, but I also
       | occasionally enable this when I want to focus on other things, or
       | if I find myself spending too much time on random apps. Because
       | of the way that the breaks work, I have to keep asking for
       | 5/15/30min and I'm very aware of how much time I'm wasting. I
       | also enable flip-to-shh mode, which disables all notifications
       | when my phone is face down on a surface. I realize that focus
       | mode and flip-to-shh can seem extreme, but I noticed this works
       | well worked for me.
       | 
       | https://blog.google/products/android/android-focus-mode/
        
         | dionian wrote:
         | same for iphone, i always have it in a focus mode that hides
         | almost all notifications. so much better
        
         | cryzinger wrote:
         | +1 to focus mode; at least on Samsung-flavored Android, you can
         | set a recurring schedule so that focus mode (or any mode)
         | automatically kicks in on certain days/times, which I use to
         | block notifications from and access to certain apps during peak
         | working hours.
         | 
         | Another feature I really like that also might be unique to
         | Samsung-flavored Android--it's been a decade since I've had a
         | device running Vanilla android, lol--is the overall daily
         | screentime tracker. It's purely observational, so there's no
         | penalty for going over, but unlike the app time limits that you
         | can snooze there isn't a way to subtract time that you actually
         | spent, which helps keep me accountable. Mainly I like having a
         | widget that tracks the day's stats on my home screen, because
         | being able to go "oof, did I really spend 45 minutes on <app>
         | today already?" is a strong motivator for me to shape up.
         | 
         | As a bonus, you can also _exclude_ certain apps from the time
         | limit tracker, which I like because it nudges me towards more
         | constructive habits. Stuff like my notes app and Waze don't
         | count towards the timer, nor does my e-reader of choice, which
         | means I'm more likely to read a few pages of a book if I have
         | time to kill since it's "free" against my daily screen goal.
        
         | flanbiscuit wrote:
         | I wanted to develop an alternative to App Timer on Android. I
         | need something more like "App Timeouts". App Timers are per 24
         | hours, so as soon I hit X amount of minutes, I'm blocked from
         | using it until midnight and then it resets.
         | 
         | What do I mean about App Timeout?
         | 
         | I want to say "Once I reach 20min on this app, block me from
         | using it for 2 hours". Then it resets after 2 hours from that
         | point. Both of those times being configurable of course.
         | 
         | The problem with the built-in Android App Timers now is I end
         | up setting it to something large, like 1 hour or more because
         | I'm thinking about how much time I want for a full day, but
         | then I just sit there in 1 sitting swiping for that whole
         | amount of time. And this usually happens after midnight so I
         | know that I'm going to be blocked for my next day until after
         | midnight again and the cycle continues.
         | 
         | I'd rather something force me to use it in shorter bits of
         | time. So at midnight I can allow myself to get into an
         | Instagram hole for 10 or 20min, but at least I know when I wake
         | up it's been reset. I think doing this will train me to use the
         | app for shorter amounts of time in general (or at least I think
         | so and I want to test that theory).
         | 
         | I don't even know if this is possible in Android. How can one
         | app block another. Maybe by allowing it to overlay over other
         | apps or something?
        
           | dustincoates wrote:
           | Lock Me Out does exactly what you are describing: https://pla
           | y.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teqtic.loc...
        
             | flanbiscuit wrote:
             | oh nice! that looks perfect. Will try it out
        
       | smugglerFlynn wrote:
       | > While I still have the twitch to check my phone when I'm
       | waiting for a coffee, or in-between activities--because my
       | brain's reward system has been trained to do this--I'm now
       | _rewarded with nothing_
       | 
       | For those looking to drop a(ny) habit: this seems to be the key
        
       | abhaynayar wrote:
       | I have a similar great+simple system for curbing consumptive
       | screen-time, i.e. I don't keep any of those apps on the phone, I
       | block all of those websites on phone/laptop web-browser using an
       | extension like Leech-Block and Un-Hook (YT). Some things that I
       | allow are - YT long-form videos from subscriptions only, Hacker-
       | News, and Linked-In.
       | 
       | THE biggest impediment for me has been stuff like getting sick.
       | When I am sick, I just cannot lie there and do nothing. And it is
       | TOO difficult to do stuff like read books or go out and talk to
       | people or whatnot, it's too much effort. I HAVE to get back on
       | consumptive screen-time. And then it devolves into something
       | uglier - an ugly spiral, of gluttony & consumption, and I keep at
       | it even beyond getting better.
       | 
       | Then it takes days or weeks of laziness and excuses to get back
       | on track. And not just sickness but anything of that level.
       | Anything that just kinda derails my life for a bit. I really need
       | to find a middle-ground solution for the worst-case scenarios.
       | I'm still working on it. I think I should be able to figure it
       | out. It took me a while to figure out my best-case system as
       | well.
        
         | portaouflop wrote:
         | For me reading books works well when I'm sick in bed. You
         | probably need to force yourself for a while but it's worth it.
         | That being said i was a voracious reader in the past so it
         | might not tickle your toes in the same way
        
         | wltr wrote:
         | Ditto! I try reading some silly things, play some old silly
         | games (e.g. Warcraft, not arcades), or just watch some YouTube.
         | But I don't watch YouTube in my daily life, so I'm not addicted
         | to it.
        
       | andrewinardeer wrote:
       | I believe that short form video coupled with infinite scroll
       | mesmerizes humans. It keeps them in a trance by using suspense.
       | The brain absolutely must know how the video plays out whether
       | that be waiting for the punchline, a fight to break our or a fact
       | to be delivered. Once the brain has locked eyes on the video the
       | user must put significant energy into making a conscious decision
       | to look away.
       | 
       | Even OpenAI's latest Sora app leans into this format and the
       | videos there are literally the poorest quality on the Internet.
       | 99.999% of them are eight seconds of unintelligent,
       | unintelligible, low grade digitally created excrement.
       | 
       | There should be a law against it.
       | 
       | Big Tech knows this. They have teams of people with doctorates
       | making apps engaging.
        
         | StickyRibbs wrote:
         | dopamine reward feedback loop. Video scrolling is an insidious
         | form of it because the feedback time is so short that you end
         | up hooked on it for hours, feeling bad afterwards; seriously
         | potent stuff.
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | aka a drug
        
         | the_snooze wrote:
         | It's a slot machine. Everything social media and e-commerce is
         | a slot machine. Each scroll is a pull of the arm, hoping that
         | the algorithmic gods will smile kindly on you and give you some
         | sweet content or deal.
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | Read "Supernormal Stimuli" by Barret [1] for an exploration of
         | the psychology of this "mesmerizing" effect - at least in
         | general, if not specifically in short-form video and infinite
         | scroll.
         | 
         | Whether the artificial stimulus comes in the form of junk food,
         | entertainment, social connection, sex, we've seen time and time
         | again that trillion-dollar megacorps employing thousands of the
         | greatest minds of our generation have been able to invent
         | substitutes that are more compelling than evolution has
         | prepared the human brain to be able to deal with.
         | 
         | It does seem like video shorts are especially easy to exploit.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.harvard.com/book/9780393068481
        
           | andrewinardeer wrote:
           | Thank you for this recommendation.
        
         | krashidov wrote:
         | We need an infinite video scroll tax
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | ooh deleting and pausing off youtube's watch history is _nice_ ,
       | no more getting sucked into videos of someone beating dark souls
       | by only pressing the Z button or whatever other bullshit Google
       | has realized I will waste hours on.
        
         | jeanofthedead wrote:
         | I use SocialFocus for iOS/macOS to block recommended videos,
         | etc. It's incredibly useful.
        
       | HelloUsername wrote:
       | > I care about living an intentional and meaningful life,
       | nurturing relationships, having nuanced conversations, and
       | enjoying the world around me.
       | 
       | These.. are all possible with a smartphone?
        
       | Desafinado wrote:
       | The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the
       | modern world, and that is that most people have been separated
       | from their families due to the logistics of finding paying work.
       | 
       | Some of my relatives in the 90s, things weren't much better
       | without smartphones. You had long distance calling and TV, or
       | otherwise you were alone. One of my relatives attempted suicide
       | when she was very young, you can guess why.
       | 
       | But yes, it obviously makes sense to use smartphones
       | intelligently. Meta products and Tik Tok are poison for the mind.
       | And unless you're at home it's a good idea to just shut the
       | smartphone off.
        
         | ProllyInfamous wrote:
         | I'm the only middle-aged person I know that doesn't use/carry a
         | smart phone (I also don't use email).
         | 
         | >One of my relatives attempted suicide when she was very young,
         | you can guess why.
         | 
         | This misses that _even more young ladies are attempting, today_
         | , albeit for _entirely different reasons_. I 'll let you guess
         | why.
        
           | fsiefken wrote:
           | If you don't use e-mail, what do you use for electronic one
           | to one communication or do you write letters and sent them by
           | post?
        
       | eimrine wrote:
       | Why disabling youtube recommendation? It is literally the only
       | recommendation engine that works, just don't watch shite (at
       | least from your account) and you will never be recommended of
       | that. Other smartphone services are irrepairely wrong, but
       | youtube is a search engine for what you dream. Everything you are
       | searching in google or mentioning somewhere on youtube forum will
       | be added to your "interests". Regular search is broken but the
       | recommendation "search" is the best service I ever had, it is
       | like an oldschool librarian who knows what book will interest
       | you.
        
         | platevoltage wrote:
         | I concur. The YouTube algorithm actually appears to work, and
         | doesn't feel like it's trying to steer me away from my
         | interests. My only issue is that it will suggest "current
         | event" type content that is years old sometimes.
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | Youtube does that for some channels or persons which are so
           | favorable for me that I use to watch all of their videos.
           | 
           | My recommendation about human interests and yt consuming is
           | not to close yourself in your shell, but actively explore
           | what are there any interesting. I become cold turkey to any
           | other recommendation services since I have unleashed the
           | power of Yt.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Spend every day for a year watching the highest quality YouTube
         | content and it won't get you as far as spending every day for a
         | month directly engaging with content yourself, or some other
         | use of the same time. It's fun, engaging, and easy enough to
         | turn into something you can argue "but it's not slop, it's
         | <x>!". At the end of the day though... it's still 95%
         | entertainment.
         | 
         | I spend a lot of time "protecting" my YouTube recommendations
         | (clearing garbage videos from my history, blocking certain
         | channels, opening links from friends separately) but I still
         | try to immensely limit the amount of time I spend on the site,
         | and the recommendations go directly against that.
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | You still seing it wrong. Youtube is the best radio possible,
           | it never disappoints me while my outdoor activity. There are
           | no reason to "watch" 99% of hours of content, nothing is
           | interesting in seing talking heads.
           | 
           | Negative measures such as clearing history, putting dislikes
           | and using "not recommend" just doesn't work because from my
           | experience the only negative metrics which works is just
           | refusing to watch shite. Youtube actively uses spaced
           | repetition approach so consider any time you are being
           | recommended to shite as active shaping your recommendation
           | engine. Don't even touch that square with the cursor. Try
           | teaching your recommendation blackbox in positive ways -
           | watch some channels when you are not watching and listening,
           | subscribe to small channels, write comments with no less than
           | 8 words and actively use such nouns which you are welcome to
           | be recommended to.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | I also avoid spending much (if any) time listening to the
             | radio/podcasts/etc these days for the same reasons.
             | 
             | > Negative measures such as clearing history, putting
             | dislikes and using "not recommend" just doesn't work
             | because from my experience the only negative metrics which
             | works is just refusing to watch shite.
             | 
             | Clearing history certainly works, just make sure there is
             | absolutely not a single unwanted video in your history or
             | the algorithm will go on a tirade thinking "I REALLY bet I
             | can get this person interested in Lego videos because they
             | watched one 4 weeks ago and I have a ton of Lego content
             | they've not even touched yet". The instant you clear the
             | final offender the recommendations change like night/day.
             | 
             | I'm not sure dislikes/"Not interested" actually do
             | anything. "Don't recommend channel" also definitely works,
             | though there may be a limit to how long they are saved and
             | it's better to just aim the algorithm.
             | 
             | The only thing the algorithm is really good for is finding
             | videos it thinks will suck up your time. The curation is
             | ultimately down to how much work you put into it, which
             | isn't all that unique to YouTube. Putting similar effort
             | into curating any large body of content will also get you
             | more content than you have time to consume, but still
             | doesn't help you actually gain much from engaging with it
             | anyways.
        
         | Liquix wrote:
         | because it flips the content consumption model on its head.
         | instead of "i want to watch a video about X" -> search for
         | video about X -> watch, the loop becomes open youtube -> see
         | interesting recommendation -> watch. you are no longer using
         | youtube as a tool to consume videos, it is using you,
         | increasing time spent on the site/app and therefore generating
         | more ad revenue.
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | How youtube can use me if I spend all my time outdoors and yt
           | is just a radio? There are some ways to see it without ads
           | even wihout deepening the profile with the credit card.
           | 
           | My point is that there is no better software to get
           | acknowledged about the different Xs than yt. My point is to
           | go cold turkey about any other recqmmendation services
           | because they can not serve my interests when I work with my
           | hands, or walking, or driving. I have listened some 3.5 hours
           | podcast about Math and I am sure there is no other way to
           | consume such a podcasts other way than I recommend here.
        
         | bitbuilder wrote:
         | I believe the point he was trying to make is that he doesn't
         | want to be recommended things he wants to watch. He wants his
         | YouTube use to be be focused and intentional, and not let
         | himself get sucked into an endless stream of engaging content.
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | And my point is that your words is about any other
           | recommendation engine. Youtube is very different, there is no
           | better information source to shape oneself what is really
           | good to be interested in. Except of maybe book search
           | websites.
        
             | missinglugnut wrote:
             | The author wants to find content when he is looking for
             | something specific. He does not want his attention grabbed
             | by something he wasn't looking for, no matter how
             | educational it may be.
             | 
             | Multiple people have clearly explained this to you in
             | several comment threads and you're still insisting it makes
             | no sense. At this point the only question is why you don't
             | want to understand.
        
           | ProllyInfamous wrote:
           | This is why I often use/watch via http://www.ytch.tv (hn/u).
           | 
           | Check out Channels 1/6/7/25/35/40
        
         | toofy wrote:
         | > It is literally the only recommendation engine that works.
         | 
         | do you really find this to be true? i find it's incredibly
         | wrong like 90+ percent of the time. i am not close to
         | interested in most of its recs. i've tried for years to tell it
         | what i like and its just wrong so often. i've even tried
         | entirely new accounts.
         | 
         | i mean, sure every once in a while im like "whoa, that's a
         | great rec" but thats pretty rare. it's definitely better than
         | spotify and the like etc... they're wrong almost always, but a
         | miss rate of more than 9 times out of 10 is so bad.
         | 
         | recommendations from people is so much more accurate.
         | 
         | when i get a music recommendation from someone who works at the
         | record store the positive hit rate is so high, same with movies
         | and music recommendations from friends, etc... if it works for
         | you that's great but my feed is overflowing with video after
         | video where i'm like "why in tf do you think i'd want to watch
         | this?"
        
       | will-burner wrote:
       | The advice about deleting youtube history and setting and auto-
       | delete cadence (though every 3 months looked like the most
       | frequent possibility for me) is good and I wasn't aware of it. I
       | don't have social media, but I do have a personal gmail email
       | address, which links to youtube making it hard to avoid spending
       | time on my phone watching youtube videos.
        
       | Void_ wrote:
       | I've been running dumbified version of iOS for a few months now,
       | and I'm very happy with it.
       | 
       | I removed every 'fun' app except for a few exceptions:
       | 
       | - ChatGPT, but mostly in voice mode, and with other people - as a
       | party trick.
       | 
       | - Whisper Memos (https://whispermemos.com/), I record voice memos
       | and they end up in my email, so I can continue with that idea
       | when I'm on a computer (whether that is a prompt for AI, or a
       | todo.)
       | 
       | - Bevel (https://www.bevel.health/), to track sleep factors, such
       | as whether I wore a nasal strip
       | 
       | - Overcast (https://overcast.fm/), for playing podcasts.
       | 
       | - Liftosaur (http://liftosaur.com/), for tracking gym
       | 
       | - Basics like Banking, EV charging, Maps, Parking, Messages,
       | Weather, Authenticator, Reminders, etc.
       | 
       | I removed App Store as well as Safari, so these apps is all I can
       | do on my iPhone.
       | 
       | In the beginning, I set up a Screen Time code so I wouldn't be
       | able to cheat. But in a few weeks I got used to it. So App Store
       | and Safari are enabled again, but I never use them. (Maybe Safari
       | is disabled. I have no idea to be honest.)
       | 
       | The biggest downside is I never know where my phone is. However,
       | I'll gladly accept this downside.
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | > _If we assume people sleep roughly 8 hours per day_
       | 
       | I'd strongly question that assumption. Based on what I've heard
       | from friends (and also personal experience), I think there is
       | quite a large number if people who spend too much time on the
       | phone, but also still want to do activities/work on projects, etc
       | - all in addition to work, family life and chores.
       | 
       | The result is that the time is taken from the activity that
       | appears most "compressible" at first glance, which is sleep.
        
       | anteloper wrote:
       | Great article, I'm a cofounder of Clearspace and think about this
       | a lot.
       | 
       | > I'm an adult, I know how to circumvent these limits, and I will
       | if motivation is low.
       | 
       | It's impossible to build systems that perfectly prevent you from
       | doing this, but it _is_ possible to build systems that can
       | perfectly deter you from doing it. You could set up one - for
       | example - that texts your spouse if you delete it. Or charges
       | your bank account. Or whatever other doomsday device you want to
       | rig up.
       | 
       | > Time limits don't affect the underlying addiction. You don't
       | quit smoking by only smoking certain hours of the day.
       | 
       | Yeah but if you could encode cigarettes to ween you off of them
       | by force, that'd be a big help. Also cigarettes don't have any
       | real utility, so cold turkey is a reasonable strategy.
       | Unfortunately the social media platforms have real utility, so a
       | guardrail strategy makes more sense.
       | 
       | > The companies that build these apps have tens of thousands of
       | really smart people (and billions of dollars) trying to get me
       | hooked and keep me engaged. The only way to win this game isn't
       | by trying to beat them (I certainly can't), but by not playing.
       | 
       | When it's all said and done, someone is going to build the right
       | set of digital environment modification tooling that does beat
       | them. It has to be possible, the internet is intrinsically
       | customizable
        
       | lencastre wrote:
       | the cable company asked me to accept their generous 50pct monthly
       | discount provided I would not cancel the subscription service but
       | I said I am trying to watch less tv, and that was that
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | Another tip for getting more out of youtube, is if your topic of
       | interest is potentially not dependent on current events, you get
       | higher signal to noise ratio searching for videos from 10+ years
       | ago exclusively. Earlier the better.
       | 
       | Youtube was so much better when you didn't see the uploaders face
       | and there wasn't incentive to pad video duration.
        
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