[HN Gopher] No I don't want to turn on Windows Backup with One D...
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       No I don't want to turn on Windows Backup with One Drive
        
       Author : firefoxd
       Score  : 470 points
       Date   : 2025-10-12 15:42 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (idiallo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (idiallo.com)
        
       | vee-kay wrote:
       | Instead of Windows Backup (which relies on M$ OneDrive), you can
       | enable (in Control panel settings) and use Windows File History.
       | 
       | File History is a backup feature in Windows that automatically
       | saves copies of your files from specific folders, like Documents
       | and Pictures, to an external drive or network location. It allows
       | you to restore previous versions of your files if they are lost
       | or damaged.
       | 
       | To enable File History in Windows, connect an external drive or
       | network location, then go to Settings > Update & Security >
       | Backup, and select "Add a drive" to choose your backup location.
       | Finally, turn on File History to start backing up your files
       | automatically.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | I think you're missing the point. There are plenty of better
         | backup solutions for windows, and the vast majority of them are
         | not Microsoft products.
        
           | vee-kay wrote:
           | I am pointing out that existing Windows feature (File
           | History) exists as alternative to Windows Backup (which
           | requires Microsoft OneDrive, which is free only upto 5GB of
           | cloud storage).
           | 
           | You are the one missing the point by suggesting off-the-shelf
           | backup solutions.
           | 
           | For corporate users, getting off-the-self solution as
           | alternatives (even if it's open-source) software may not be
           | easy (corporates typically have strict controls on what
           | software they allow for users, and usually they contractually
           | need to reveal to customers if they are using open-source
           | software), but they can use File History for free, by setting
           | it to back it up to a network path/drive if their IT admins
           | permit.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | That's cool, I didn't know about this, I'll see if it might be
         | simpler than something I hooked up with a bash script.
        
           | anonymars wrote:
           | wbadmin is the GOAT. Multi version snapshots of the drives,
           | which you can easily mount as they are vhdx
           | 
           | Sadly some of the potential is gimped (point in time restore
           | of individual files) but in a pinch you can grab an eval copy
           | of Server and run it in Hyper-V, attach the backup drive to
           | that, and do it that way
        
         | proactivesvcs wrote:
         | Ironically File History silently ignores all the contents of
         | any onedrive folders when backing up.
        
         | a022311 wrote:
         | I've used this for a few months and it ended up taking too much
         | space and was quite fragile in my experience.
         | 
         | Even with this and OneDrive enabled, I managed to lose years of
         | family photos when trying to free up space thinking "oh I've
         | got this backed up" and then thinking the same when freeing up
         | space when deleting my backup. I wish Windows could be less
         | confusing...
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Windows File History doesn't eliminate the need for an actual
           | backup of important files, but it's a convenient feature to
           | be able to quickly inspect or restore random files you
           | changed or deleted recently-ish (roughly a year for me). It's
           | best to point it to a separate drive/partition and configure
           | it to fill that one up and have it delete the oldest files
           | whenever it needs more free space.
        
       | babas wrote:
       | Windows enshittification has come a long way unfortunately. You
       | still have some options to remove crap. I have had very good luck
       | with o&o ShutUp10++
       | 
       | https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
        
         | allears wrote:
         | Also, if you want to stay on 10, 0patch is a good option.
         | 
         | Changing the win11 UI to something more usable with
         | StartAllBack is also recommended. $5 one-time fee.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | keep paying again, to have a usable device is not a solution,
           | its more like the MS endgame
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | This stuff is increasingly normalized across platforms.
       | 
       | I'd say "vote with your wallet", but when all the tech platforms
       | are doing it, there's not much choice. PCs / laptops are probably
       | the last hold out: Just switch to Linux (but be careful which
       | distro you pick) or MacOS (for now).
       | 
       | The political pendulum is going to swing far left in the US given
       | the disasters that are playing out in DC. Hopefully this sort of
       | crap will be banned when that happens.
        
         | j1elo wrote:
         | IMHO Linux Mint keeps being the strongest option to recommend
         | when the intention is a clean transition with the least amount
         | of fiddling. It just works, it is reliable, and it doesn't play
         | games with changes of basic technologies that can only cause
         | confusion (e.g. none of the Ubuntu shenanigans like their
         | confusing desktop or their non-Debian packaging)
        
           | shmerl wrote:
           | I wouldn't recommend Mint. Better use something with recent
           | KDE Plasma and recent kernel and Mesa for best Wayland
           | experience.
           | 
           | Especially speaking of playing games, I periodically see
           | newcomer Linux gamers hitting problems due to Mint being
           | outdated and not having good Wayland support. Especially for
           | any kind of recent hardware.
        
             | nokeya wrote:
             | Any examples of "something with recent kde"? I have Ubuntu
             | currently, wanted to switch to the Mint, now want to hear
             | more opinions
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | I'd say any rolling distro. Try Debian testing or
               | unstable if you prefer Debian distros family (choose KDE
               | during installation). Or try Arch.
               | 
               | KDE also started making its own Arch based distro now:
               | https://kde.org/linux/
               | 
               | But it's one of those immutable flavors. I prefer
               | something more flexible.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | Fedora
        
               | jpmattia wrote:
               | How do you deal with the short lifespan until EOL? I've
               | been using Rocky (and CentOS before that) simply to avoid
               | dealing with EOL so often.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | Fedora makes major upgrades pretty easy - you can even do
               | it via the GUI Software Center, then reboot.
               | 
               | Personally I'm using Kinoite[1], an "immutable" version
               | of Fedora that has an immutable base image, which makes
               | it nearly impossible to break things during updates (even
               | major upgrades).
               | 
               | [1] - https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/kinoite/
        
               | queenkjuul wrote:
               | I use mint's cinnamon UI on Ubuntu. It's by far my
               | favorite desktop, but yeah Mint's main packages are too
               | far out of date usually.
        
             | sebtron wrote:
             | For me it's the exact opposite, I had problems with Steam
             | games on Wayland and I switched back to X11.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | You probably used Nvidia and some outdated distro with a
               | bad DE on top. Not something you should be using. Using
               | X11 is DOA anyway, so you can figure out what was wrong
               | in your case and use better options.
        
               | sebtron wrote:
               | No, AMD. I had issues on the latest Debian, released this
               | summer, with KDE. X11 works perfectly fine. I would be
               | happy with wayland too, if it worked. And in fact I use
               | it on my other device.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | What kind of issues though with what GPU? I'm using
               | Debian testing, it all works fine with AMD and KDE Plasma
               | Wayland session.
               | 
               | With AMD, always make sure to use latest kernel, Mesa and
               | amdgpu firmware.
        
               | sebtron wrote:
               | The Steam main window did not open, although Steam itself
               | did load in the background. I could work around this by
               | disabling smooth scrolling on web view and some other
               | GPU-related option (I forgot exactly).
               | 
               | But then there was a strange glitch on every single game
               | (both native and Proton-based). Periodically (e.g. every
               | ~10 seconds on some 3D games, on every screen reload on
               | some other) the screen turned black for about 2 seconds.
               | 
               | Then I remembered that I had some issue when I first
               | installed Debian 12 two years, though I forgot which
               | issues exactly, and that I solved them by switching from
               | Wayland to X11.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | What DE? And that's with all the latest components as
               | above? I wouldn't use Debian stable for gaming purposes,
               | since it falls behind very quickly. Debian testing /
               | unstable is a better idea, and even then you'd want to
               | install latest amdgpu firmware manually potentially.
        
               | sebtron wrote:
               | KDE, not sure what version the kernel and the drivers
               | are, whatever Debian stable has. I think kernel is 6.12.
               | 
               | I'll try updating the firmware and drivers manually if I
               | have more issues in the future, thanks.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | Yeah, for sure always have latest kernel, Mesa and
               | firmware if you are having any gaming issues. 6.12 is
               | already old by now.
        
           | dismalaf wrote:
           | Linux Mint is terrible. Horribly outdated software, how are
           | they still on X11? Both their DEs are forks which introduces
           | problems...
           | 
           | Like, in regular Gnome/KDE land, you have Wayland which is a
           | huge improvement over X11, HDR works, fractional scaling
           | works... None of that works on Mint.
        
             | shmerl wrote:
             | Not sure why you are downvoted, what you said is true. Mint
             | has some WIP to support Wayland in Cinnamon, but it's way
             | behind other DEs and I wouldn't recommend using it.
        
               | dare944 wrote:
               | Voted down because the "Linux Mint is terrible" statement
               | clearly isn't true.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | Wong wording may be, but the point of the post is
               | correct. Mint just lags behind with Wayland support and
               | in being up to date for handling recent hardware
               | especially.
               | 
               | The former is Mint's specific problem, while the latter
               | is a general problem of all long period release distros
               | that don't take care of updating Linux kernel, Mesa and
               | etc. to actual recent releases.
        
               | dismalaf wrote:
               | When Mint always comes up as a distro for newbies coming
               | from Windows, then lacks all the features of a modern
               | system, yes, it's terrible.
        
           | barbs wrote:
           | Agreed. For people coming from Windows Linux Mint is the one
           | I recommend. Simple, stable, minimal hassle.
        
           | intalentive wrote:
           | I like Mint. I just wanted something simple that looks like
           | Win7 I can use for work, email, browsing, and it delivers.
        
         | creato wrote:
         | MacOS is just as aggressive about turning on icloud as windows
         | is with it's crap.
        
           | acomjean wrote:
           | I'll concur with Apple being way more aggressive about this
           | as well. icloud and if you try to use music on you iPhone
           | with your collection of music Apple Music is always being
           | pitched. Though the windows default start menu is something
           | to behold these days (or widget panel..). I deleted Apple
           | Maps from my phone because I never used it, but nothing would
           | free up the 10 gigs of data it was storing.... Sigh.
           | 
           | Linux is good enough to be a daily driver for most things
           | these days.
        
             | xdfgh1112 wrote:
             | New phone came with no standalone music player only YouTube
             | Music. But fair play to them you can click "local files
             | only" at first launch and it keeps out of your way.
        
           | GeekyBear wrote:
           | When Apple forces users to use an online account to access
           | their local Mac, and disables their OS unless they turn on
           | iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence between
           | them.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | I can claim equivalence between them whenever I want. If
             | both OSes adopt and enforce my biggest pet peeves, then no
             | amount of eye candy or freebie features will fix my
             | workflow.
             | 
             | Gatekeeping and second opinions don't really move the
             | needle on where I stand with either company.
        
               | handsclean wrote:
               | Showing up in a thread you haven't even participated in
               | and saying "I've already made my choice, quit giving me
               | second opinions" is comically self-centered.
        
             | creato wrote:
             | I literally just got my first Mac computer a few months
             | ago. I tried to set it up as a local account with no online
             | account. I could not.
             | 
             | Maybe it is possible and I just missed it. But either they
             | don't allow it, or they have enough dark pattern bullshit
             | to trick me, either way, it's the same as windows to me.
        
               | pndy wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure there was some keyboard shortcut to skip
               | apple id login/creation during initial setup - not sure
               | if that's still possible nowadays but I did used it once
               | on my mbp few years ago
        
               | ziml77 wrote:
               | All you have to do is choose Set Up Later when presented
               | with the screen for logging in with an Apple account.
        
               | vunderba wrote:
               | Unless the way VMs install a distro is somehow
               | fundamentally different from a new computer, then it's
               | literally two clicks when installing Sonoma to use a
               | local account when prompted (Setup Later and then click
               | Skip). I just tested this.
        
             | ajkjk wrote:
             | the fact that you have to have an apple account to do all
             | kinds of basic developer tasks (installing Xcode / Xcode
             | command line tools, which are needed for lots of stuff last
             | time I checked (a few years ago?)) is evidence that they
             | suck also. But not nearly as bad as Microsoft who are
             | actively scum from the moment you first turn the computer
             | on.
        
           | itopaloglu83 wrote:
           | I'm sorry but you're mistaken. It's literally a normal skip
           | button when first setting up the machine.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/rE-hFyANr0Y
           | 
           | And unlike Windows it doesn't turn itself on randomly or
           | install additional apps like OneDrive, Teams, and Skype etc.
           | with every OS update.
        
             | marzullo wrote:
             | Yep, just setup a new MacBook Air and did not have to link
             | an Apple account during setup.
        
         | malfist wrote:
         | It's almost like monopolies aren't good for the consumer. We
         | need some real power for enforcing the Sherman act. Too many
         | companies have been able to buy all their competitors
        
           | jofla_net wrote:
           | Yeah but that sweet sweet ABI, we just gotta have that stable
           | ABI, bum ba dum.
           | 
           | Remember that ABI when you're pulling out your hair over
           | whatever MS's latest snafu is. The PC isn't about personal
           | computing, no ,no, its about desperation. Its about using the
           | fulcrum of ABI stability to see how much someone can accept
           | wedged down their throat, because yeah, well, don't wanna
           | loose that ABI.
           | 
           | Remember that ABI, 'next time 'Error: Something Happened.'
        
           | brendoelfrendo wrote:
           | Unfortunately, anti-trust doctrine in the US has gone from
           | "too little competition in a market is inherently bad" to
           | "any % of market share is OK as long as it doesn't result in
           | consumer prices getting too high too fast." We've really lost
           | the plot of why anti-trust regulation was passed in the first
           | place.
        
             | parineum wrote:
             | > We've really lost the plot of why anti-trust regulation
             | was passed in the first place.
             | 
             | I don't personally have any knowledge of the answer to this
             | question but, hundreds of people had to vote for it and
             | they rarely all have the same things in mind when they do.
             | 
             | It's better to focus on what legislation does and says
             | rather than what it was meant to do.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | _> or MacOS (for now)_
         | 
         | Reminder that Apple's revenue from ads is in the billions and
         | climbing at an accelerating pace. The enshittification comes
         | for all. They don't need to be good, they just need to be
         | better than Microsoft.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | My Android tablet keeps bugging me about updates and what not.
         | Wish I could install my preferred flavor of Linux on it, but it
         | seems infeasible at this moment.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | macOS is absolutely awful about iCloud nag. If you try and use
         | a Mac without an iCloud account, you'll get neverending popups
         | and notifications begging you to go online. It's nearly as bad
         | as Windows.
         | 
         | Neither GNOME nor KDE get anywhere near as bad. It's really
         | _only_ these commercial  "holier than thou" operating systems
         | that think they know best.
        
           | nogridbag wrote:
           | I haven't experienced this but I see you're the second
           | comment pointing that out. I've been using macbooks for work
           | for a long time and never once used iCloud nor do I remember
           | seeing a confusing prompt. But I also rarely upgrade my
           | machine.
           | 
           | With Windows, a regular seemingly normal update appeared
           | almost as if I was upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11
           | and it prompted me to do the backup to OneDrive. I accepted
           | it because I was worried the update to Windows 11 would get
           | screwed up. After the update completed it was just a normal
           | update after all and there was no need for me to accept that
           | onedrive backup!
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | iCloud nags appear in the Settings app and Notifications
             | menu. When you are signed out, Apple will assault you with
             | notifications (that you must disabled with a script) until
             | you log in:
             | https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250786208?sortBy=rank
             | 
             | I've got my fair share of horror-stories with both OSes, I
             | switched between dailying Mojave and Windows 10 for a big
             | portion of my life. Nothing will ever top updating to
             | Catalina, booting up Ableton Live and seeing all my paid
             | plugins go from "working fine" to "completely unsupported"
             | in the span of an update.
        
           | pndy wrote:
           | During pandemic I started playing with smart home stuff and
           | since I'm already within apple playgrounds I've got homepod
           | mini since they stripped ipads from hub feature. After
           | configuring the speaker I had apple music ad for about 3
           | months at the top of settings where ios software update
           | notifications appears.
        
           | liquid_thyme wrote:
           | Its everywhere. You get nagged constantly for Apple music on
           | your iphone too. My dystopian prediction is that in the near
           | future, corporations will just garnish your wages so they
           | don't have to do this.
        
         | shmerl wrote:
         | Agreed about switching to Linux. I don't agree on macOS though.
         | Apple is nasty in its own way and has a ton of anti-user
         | patterns no one should be dealing with. If you want to decide
         | for yourself and not things being decided for you because _" we
         | know better than you what you really need"_, just use Linux.
        
         | lambdaone wrote:
         | Apple had a go at doing this with iCloud, but clearly there was
         | enough consumer pushback (a friend lost all their files after
         | cancelling iCloud, thinking it was a backup service, not
         | realising it deleted the original copies on their machine) that
         | they stopped the enshittification there.
        
       | LogicFailsMe wrote:
       | Don't want OneDrive. Don't want co-pilot. And I say that as
       | someone who enjoys vibe coding because while the former two are
       | push, the latter is pull. Pull is the remedy to enshittification.
       | But good luck explaining that to someone whose job depends on
       | that not being the case.
        
       | quectophoton wrote:
       | Surprisingly, something I still haven't seen anywhere is having a
       | "choice" with three buttons like:
       | 
       | - "Yes" -> Consent.
       | 
       | - "No" -> Popup asks you again some time later.
       | 
       | - "Don't ask again" -> Meaning "Yes, and don't ask again".
        
         | bradrn wrote:
         | Don't give them ideas!!
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | I really want to see a tweak to the California and EU privacy
         | rules that requires opting in to data collection / sharing to
         | be at least as hard as opting out.
         | 
         | For the first 5 years, the processes would be swapped, and set
         | in stone. So, you'd need to call a number, sit on hold and be
         | disconnected a few times to get a mailing address. Then you'd
         | buy some stamps and an envelope if you want to submit a "Please
         | sell my personal information" form. Grocery stores would charge
         | you more if you used a loyalty card, and so on.
         | 
         | Of course, a better approach would make the collection, sale,
         | querying, possession of, and engaging in transactions involving
         | consumer marketing databases illegal. (All those protections
         | are needed since Google redefined "sell personal information"
         | to not include any of their revenue streams.)
        
         | ourmandave wrote:
         | I _hate_ the  "Not now..." b.s.
         | 
         | They need a "F*ck off forever" option.
        
       | kwanbix wrote:
       | Win 10 IoT guys. Or Win 11 IoT. Not more problems.
        
         | subscribed wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm bracing myself for this. I'll get myself PS4 licence
         | for this and hope for the best.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | It's not a legit licensed copy for you. Sorry. You might as
           | well just pirate it.
        
             | 1718627440 wrote:
             | Depends, there were court orders that claimed it were.
        
       | kotaKat wrote:
       | Can we crowdfund someone going to the Microsoft campuses,
       | heckling every employee nonstop on the grounds, and when security
       | comes up, just tell them "maybe later"?
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | someone already tried something similar with politics, but it
         | didmt work out very well.
        
         | DaveZale wrote:
         | see what Neil Young has been saying about getting big
         | corporations out of our lives. They skillfully buy out
         | potential competitors and kill them to keep their monopolies.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | What he has to say would have been a lot more believable
           | before he sold half his back catalog to a hedge fund. Queue
           | the McDonalds commericial that includes "keep me searching
           | for an arch of gold"...
        
       | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
       | In Ubuntu I turn off motd ads, in Windows I turn off this stuff,
       | it doesn't come back, I only remember it exists when I see the
       | outrage journalism headlines. I don't see why more people don't
       | just take the steps to remove annoyances.
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | the problem is MS keeps taking steps to resurrect those
         | annoyances.
        
         | bearjaws wrote:
         | You can plug your ears and close your eyes, but Microsoft is
         | becoming increasingly adversarial to their customers.
         | 
         | It's clear they want to remove local accounts and tie
         | everything to O365.
         | 
         | My mom (68 yo) recently got a Windows update that then prompted
         | her to backup her stuff. I had disabled all this and used Win11
         | debloat previously. OneDrive only had 5gb of storage and
         | prompted her to upgrade.
         | 
         | She thought she got hacked because it was asking for money.
         | Then when I went to turn it off it warned me that I _might_
         | suffer data loss disabling one drive. Which is a story that we
         | have seen play out _many_ times.
         | 
         | Sure enough I backed everything up to an external drive, and
         | when I disabled OneDrive the files were totally gone.
         | 
         | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5309251/...
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/1ef8pgr/one_dr...
         | 
         | https://www.elevenforum.com/t/i-tried-to-disable-onedrive-lo...
         | 
         | So sure, _you_ can get around it, but there are going to be
         | hundreds of millions of other people who won 't.
        
         | thescriptkiddie wrote:
         | i have uninstalled onedrive at least 6 times on one computer. i
         | never intentionally installed it
        
         | II2II wrote:
         | I don't know if it is still true, but I noticed a difference in
         | the behaviour of Home and Professional editions a number of
         | years back. Home was definitely more agressive. Then there was
         | a recent reinstall of Windows. The One Drive backup popup came
         | up, but didn't give me an option to say no. It only allowed me
         | to delay the decision by a week or a month.
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | Oh please. The Ubuntu thing isnt even anywhere close. Also you
         | know that there is more than one Linux distro, so nice try
         | justifying it.
        
       | badsectoracula wrote:
       | May i suggest some solutions? :-P
       | 
       | -> https://endof10.org/ (it has a map with people who can help
       | install Linux)
       | 
       | -> https://www.opensuse.org/ (what i'm using on my PCs, works
       | fine for the most part[0])
       | 
       | -> https://www.linuxmint.com/ (people seem to like this)
       | 
       | -> https://bazzite.gg/ (seems to be popular with gamers)
       | 
       | -> https://www.debian.org/ (almost everything is based on this
       | :-P)
       | 
       | [0] for the most part because nothing - not even macOS where
       | Apple controls the entire stack from CPU up to the OS - is
       | without problems. Though i'm doing weird stuff with my PC - on my
       | laptop i just threw it in ~3 years ago and it has been working
       | without issues since then
        
         | ramon156 wrote:
         | May I suggest you give fedora a go? It still feels like the
         | most mature distro out there, but I can be biased
        
           | subscribed wrote:
           | I used both Fedora and Ubuntu for years and couldn't point to
           | the _better_ distribution.
           | 
           | Maybe one thing I had with Fedora: I had to trail one major
           | distribution behind, because going for the most recent
           | releases always ended up hurting me.
           | 
           | But that's just for work. I don't think I can move my gaming
           | to Linux yet
        
             | Alupis wrote:
             | I've been using the latest Fedora full-time for over two
             | years without issue, and have been doing nearly all my
             | gaming on it as well. The only gaming that doesn't work are
             | games that deliberately use anti-cheat that doesn't support
             | anything but Windows (typically the games run great in
             | single player or offline, but multiplayer refuses to work).
             | Of my Steam catalog, over 90% just works, and a large
             | amount of that now has native Linux support thanks to the
             | Steam Deck.
             | 
             | What particular issues were you experiencing?
             | 
             | As a counter anecdote, on my Windows installation I
             | routinely run into "WTF" moments, such as BitLocker
             | randomly deciding I need to enter recovery codes, the
             | constant nagware that is OneDrive and friends, plus when I
             | search for the same binary exe I've launched a dozen times
             | Windows still displays "web results" first - fooling me
             | just about every time.
        
             | crote wrote:
             | Interestingly, I had the opposite experience.
             | 
             | With Ubuntu I kept running into bugs which had already been
             | fixed upstream, or which were caused either by Debian's or
             | Ubuntu's patches. And even filing regular bug reports was
             | basically impossible: the Ubuntu packagers will almost
             | certainly ignore it, the Debian packagers aren't interested
             | in bugs happening in mutated versions of outdated packages
             | in their unstable repo, and the upstream maintainers aren't
             | interested in bug reports for weirdly-patched old releases.
             | 
             | After several attempts at getting bugs fixed (sometimes
             | even sending complete patches) and getting no response for
             | _years_ I gave up on Ubuntu and switched to Fedora. Their
             | policy is to ship the freshest upstream releases possible,
             | with as few patches as possible. This means I can just
             | directly file my bug reports at the upstream vendor, and a
             | fix will usually land on my system fairly quickly.
             | 
             | I do notice that I am slowly using more and more Flatpak
             | desktop apps: why bother with the middleman when you can
             | trivially get the latest release directly from the upstream
             | vendor?
        
           | badsectoracula wrote:
           | TBH if i decide to change OS again, i'll probably go with
           | Gentoo because AFAIK it provides means to have custom patches
           | for packages and i'd like to do things like, e.g., add some
           | stuff in the file dialog for Gtk3. Though i'm not sure this
           | is something most people would care about, so i didn't
           | mention it (also i only have a vague idea that this is
           | possible, i haven't actually tried it in practice).
        
             | Jach wrote:
             | I've been using Gentoo as my primary OS since 2007, along
             | with gnome2 (now mate) as the desktop environment with the
             | ancient compiz for fancy effects like wobbling windows and
             | a desktop cube. Updates come pretty quickly. It's so nice
             | having rolling releases, dist upgrades for other distros
             | make me nervous and I've lost time to them -- and
             | occasionally other software that certain distros decided to
             | throw you into a curses terminal UI for configuration (or
             | just mysteriously break and fail to install the package if
             | you were using the desktop GUI). The custom patches thing
             | is really nice and fairly straightforward. When you install
             | a package its tarball gets saved in /var/cache/distfiles/
             | so you can just extract your package with the right version
             | to a temp dir to work on. If you want to patch the package
             | foo/bar you create a diff file
             | /etc/portage/patches/foo/bar/patch-name (git format-patch
             | can help, you just take the diff --git parts) and it gets
             | auto-applied next time you build the package (or if it
             | can't apply the diff, fails and tells you). I don't use
             | this as often as I could, I only have a few patches at the
             | moment (https://github.com/Jach/patches -- there's been a
             | couple minor updates I should push), but it's pretty
             | convenient to fix minor annoyances, take tiny fixes from
             | upstream until they're fully released, or add custom
             | features/text where you want.
             | 
             | With overlays to get packages outside of the core distro
             | tree, a lot of software is just available, and even when
             | it's not, you usually have the build tools or can easily
             | install them so building whatever else from source isn't an
             | obstacle. (I do sometimes have to use debian/ubuntu/mint
             | (mint is on my travel laptop that I only use when
             | traveling) and it still gets me sometimes having to make
             | sure build-essential and various -dev packages are
             | installed to do anything.) One downside is that your glibc
             | will likely be newer than a lot of other systems out there,
             | so that creates obstacles to shipping binaries around. You
             | can also create your own packages in an overlay fairly
             | easily as well, or keep some old ones around that have lost
             | their maintainers and get removed from the tree.
             | 
             | There's also a somewhat annoying 'license' system (adding
             | license names you accept to a configuration file) but with
             | it the tooling can automatically fetch certain things for
             | downloading (e.g. nvidia driver blobs) that some companies
             | want people to get manually so they can harvest your
             | data/force you to accept some EULA. I'm now remembering
             | that 16 or 17 years ago, the last time I tried Fedora, I
             | was testing it out by plugging in a flash drive (yay it
             | auto mounted) but it failed to play an MP3 file and
             | suggested I pay someone money to install codecs. It's left
             | a sour impression on Fedora ever since, not to mention my
             | lingering question why anyone would want a Red Hat
             | derivative outside of a locked down office (and even then
             | at my old BigCo job we devs got to use Ubuntu).
             | 
             | For casual use I still think Mint is probably the best
             | distro at the moment. I tend to recommend the mate desktop
             | environment since it's what I like and am used to but it's
             | a poor distro if you can't easily install any DE of choice
             | on it.
        
         | brushfoot wrote:
         | My main reasons for using Windows right now are:
         | 
         | - Davinci Resolve
         | 
         | - Adobe suite
         | 
         | - AutoHotkey scripts, lots of them
         | 
         | - Microsoft Office, mainly PowerPoint, Excel and Word for
         | creating and interacting with other companies' docs.
         | Libre/OpenOffice mangled them/were missing features I depend on
         | 
         | - Issues with my laptop's Nvidia card (screen tearing etc.)
         | last time I tried to switch, and rabbit holes that I don't have
         | time for anymore (solopreneur)
         | 
         | That said, I would love to switch back. I loved rofi [0] last
         | time, for example.
         | 
         | Can anyone speak to the above? What's the status of running
         | Windows apps like Adobe, Resolve, Office, for instance? Or
         | AutoHotkey or equivalent?
         | 
         | 0: https://github.com/davatorium/rofi
        
           | PhilippGille wrote:
           | Davinci Resolve has official support for Linux
        
             | NexRebular wrote:
             | ...and unofficial support for FreeBSD
             | 
             | https://github.com/NapoleonWils0n/davinci-resolve-freebsd-
             | ja...
        
             | brushfoot wrote:
             | Oh wow, thanks for this. I had filed it under "Windows and
             | Mac only" in my head for some reason. Now I see that it was
             | originally Linux only!?
             | 
             | Amazing that this free-to-download application supports
             | Linux when Adobe doesn't. Or maybe not so amazing given
             | their different approaches.
        
           | badsectoracula wrote:
           | About AutoHotKey, you can do similar stuff as long as you are
           | using X11 as there are various utilities for it, such as
           | xdotool[0]. There is even an AutoHotKey-for-Linux project[1]
           | (it also needs X11 - the author did try to port it to Wayland
           | but gave up). For Wayland there are some alternatives like
           | ydotool[2] (actually AFAIK since ydotool uses some daemon to
           | inject events it works with anything, not just Wayland, but
           | on the other hand it only provides a basic tiny subset of
           | xdotool's commands) but the core protocol isn't particularly
           | friendly to such automation.
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/jordansissel/xdotool
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/phil294/AHK_X11
           | 
           | [2] https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | I suspect the problem they were indicating with "AutoHotKey
             | scripts, lots of them" is that they just have a lot of
             | scripts they'd need to convert. I get it--even switching to
             | a new WM or distro can be a real pain.
        
               | badsectoracula wrote:
               | Well, they did mention "AHK or equivalent" so it sounds
               | like converting them isn't out of the question.
        
               | lukevp wrote:
               | Things that used to be prohibitive are made much easier
               | with AI these days. Especially tasks like this that do
               | something fairly small and isolated and are easy to test.
        
             | willis936 wrote:
             | ydotool helps bridge the gap in wayland. xdotool
             | replacements ate even more essential since wayland strips
             | away most of the hooks into windows.
        
             | majkinetor wrote:
             | There is nothing like AHK. All mentioned tools are toys in
             | comprison.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Agreed. AHK and Windows' amenability to such things is an
               | important reason why Windows is still my preferred GUI by
               | far.
        
           | meltyness wrote:
           | Linux for me is all about customization and control,
           | particularly of hardware, which you'd usually do for
           | optimization (performance, workflow, latency, stability),
           | which is fun if you care about optimization and efficiency,
           | but for "good enough/I'm used to it/I'm a satisfied paying
           | customer" I suppose there's no reason to investigate or risk.
           | The market has poured loads of capital into satisfying PC
           | multimedia use-case.
           | 
           | I'd suspect there's probably versions of all those that have
           | been made to function basically through WINE.
           | 
           | If your curious, it's very easy to use it as a hypervisor,
           | and pull out what you can, though IOMMU/SR-IOV might be
           | tricky.
           | 
           | Alternatively, checking if Blender/GIMP service your use
           | cases wouldn't even require switching...
           | 
           | AutoHotKey has been solved a lot of different ways, for sure.
           | 
           | But yeah, granular detailed control over your hardware is
           | still the primary use-case for Linux, so if you view bad
           | defaults, annoying install procedures, occasional show
           | stopping bugs a hindrance rather than an opportunity, maybe
           | it's not a strong candidate.
        
             | brushfoot wrote:
             | I hear that. I enjoy that kind of tinkering; I just have
             | too much on my plate with my business to go as deep into it
             | as I used to. But I'm still interested in Linux, if only
             | because it's a much-needed third option. I've been on and
             | off it as a daily driver over the years.
             | 
             | I'm guessing others here who are primarily on Windows can
             | relate to this. We've been disappointed with what Apple and
             | Microsoft are doing, and we want, not necessarily more
             | customization of our OS, just less interference.
        
           | instagib wrote:
           | 1. office.com
           | 
           | 2. Google drive/docs/*
           | 
           | 3. Hacky office on Linux work around - several found on
           | github
           | 
           | Davinci Resolve seems to run faster on Linux.
        
           | upboundspiral wrote:
           | I don't use it as much nowadays but https://github.com/ublue-
           | os/aurora (kde desktop + automatic updates + baked in nvidia
           | drivers) got me an as painless as possible nvidia experience
           | (on a laptop I got my nvidia gpu to power down while idle
           | which had been a huge time sink trying to figure out how to
           | do on my own). Didn't notice any screen tearing personally,
           | but that's probably something that depends on what
           | applications / workflows one has.
           | 
           | In terms of office compatibility OnlyOffice iirc has the best
           | compatibility. Easy to install via flatpak (I really enjoy
           | this move in desktop linux because now I can easily remove
           | network access from apps / set the permissions I want).
           | 
           | The only thing that seems unsurmountable is probably Adobe,
           | not sure how much of a dealbreaker that is.
        
           | noAnswer wrote:
           | - Davinci Resolve
           | 
           | Has nativ support.
           | 
           | - Adobe suite
           | 
           | - Microsoft Office
           | 
           | https://www.winboat.app But beta.
           | 
           | - AutoHotkey scripts, lots of them
           | 
           | I'm afraid there is no easy way.
           | https://pyautogui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
           | 
           | - Issues with my laptop's Nvidia card
           | 
           | Get AMD.
           | 
           | > I don't have time for anymore (solopreneur)
           | 
           | Fair. Second PC to play around from time to time is probably
           | the best in this case. But I fully understand, unless as a
           | hobby, that infesting a lot of time makes little sense.
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | I would vote for Bluefin: https://projectbluefin.io/
         | 
         | It's very similar to Bazzite, which you listed, but not gamer
         | focused. You get an easy install, auto updates (without
         | reboots), and a bulletproof, immutable OS that is nearly
         | impossible to break.
         | 
         | If you want bling and tiling, Omarchy is the new hotness:
         | https://omarchy.org/
        
           | drbw wrote:
           | Omarchy "by dhh"? Nope, maybe not.
        
             | dimator wrote:
             | Out of the loop, why not?
        
               | sugarpimpdorsey wrote:
               | An open source developer (the creator of Ruby on Rails
               | and Omarchy Linux) made a political comment someone
               | didn't like. Now there is a concerted effort by a small
               | group of terminally online histrionics to ruin his life
               | and get all his projects cancelled. The comment was
               | apparently made on his personal blog and not in any
               | official capacity.
        
               | ColonelBlimp wrote:
               | As far as I know, this is the blog post that led to the
               | backlash https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-
               | london-e7d38e64
        
               | McGlockenshire wrote:
               | > made a political comment someone didn't like
               | 
               | It should be noted that this specific framing ("it's just
               | a disagreement," "someone didn't like it," "it's nothing
               | big") is used by the people that, instead, _like_ the
               | "comment." It's an extremely common pattern. So is one of
               | the words he uses later, "histrionics."
               | 
               | The comment in question is an ethnonationalist blog post.
               | Not a _comment_ somewhere, but an actual goddamn essay.
               | But you don 't have to take my word on it, you can read
               | it yourself:
               | 
               | https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64
               | 
               | You should also click through his archive for more,
               | because this isn't really new for him, it's just taking
               | it to a new low.
               | 
               | > by a small group of terminally online histrionics
               | 
               | Again, witness the minimization of the actual thing he
               | said and the redirection to the critics. Why? It's the
               | argument pattern they've adopted.
               | 
               | The term that the parent post would be looking for it
               | actually "social shaming." You see, shame used to be an
               | effective tool against bigotry. Not wanting to associate
               | with bigots isn't _histrionics_. On the contrary, being
               | OK with bigotry is bad, and wrong!
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | This is false. I do not, in fact, have an opinion one way
               | or the other about his blog post. I don't care at all
               | what the man has to say about politics. But I still
               | disapprove of people trying to drag his politics into the
               | thread, and start flame wars, every time the man comes
               | up.
        
               | majkinetor wrote:
               | He expresses his opinions on his own blog. You are being
               | extremely toxic in public.
        
               | zaptheimpaler wrote:
               | I'm one of the immigrant groups people don't seem to like
               | very much these days, but even I recognize some degree of
               | ethnonationalism or desire to restrict immigration is NOT
               | bigotry. I can empathize how jarring it must be to begin
               | to feel like a minority in your own country - even if
               | they aren't minorities nationally, they may be in local
               | urban pockets. Unfettered immigration IS causing problems
               | in many places, is often supported by businesses looking
               | for cheap labor and it's absolutely reasonable to be
               | opposed to it.
               | 
               | Moreover, the false equivalence you're drawing between
               | opposition to immigration and bigotry is part of what let
               | the problem fester in the first place. I think people
               | should be allowed to oppose immigration without being
               | called racist, its not the same thing. The open bigotry
               | and racism by the right in many countries is partly a
               | reaction to this false equivalence. They saw immigration
               | in some cases as causing social disorder, as a tool to
               | suppress wages, as causing increased crime etc. and they
               | were forcefed a message of "all immigration is good and
               | any opposition is racist" to reasonable objections. No
               | one is obligated to accept every person who wants to come
               | in.
        
               | queenkjuul wrote:
               | Go read his recent blog post about England for the
               | English and how cool he thinks Tommy Robinson is
        
             | lukevp wrote:
             | You can have a negative opinion of DHH, but why not provide
             | some context as to why your dislike of him would cause you
             | to think this Linux distro is a bad option? I don't know
             | anything about the distro.
        
               | McGlockenshire wrote:
               | Not wanting to use the works of / a project lead by
               | someone that holds beliefs that are repulsive to you is a
               | perfectly valid reason.
        
           | LeoPanthera wrote:
           | Having half of the demo screenshot on the front page taken up
           | by Grok is a bad sign. A very bad sign.
        
         | Defenestresque wrote:
         | In addition, and there are a few of these floating around but
         | this is my devloater of choice, may I suggest
         | https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat ?
         | 
         | Despite the fact that it mostly runs in powershell, it still
         | has a better UX then the majority of Microsoft apps. (Except
         | for the confusion about their only GUI pop-up window, you put a
         | check mark next to the built-in apps you want removed, which
         | was led me to reread the instructions to make sure I had it
         | right the first time I used it).
         | 
         | It has both built-in sane default for people who just want to
         | debloat Windows 10/11, along with a "custom" option which takes
         | less than 60 seconds to get through but gives you all the
         | customizability you need.
         | 
         | (No connection with the author except mad respect.)
         | 
         | --sent from my Linux desktop, but alas..
        
         | tsycho wrote:
         | The only reason I use Windows is for playing some old games
         | (primarily Age of Empires II: DE) that only work well on
         | Windows. In the AoE2 case, I also need CaptureAge that only
         | works on Windows.
         | 
         | The point is that even though I have 95% de-Microsoftized my
         | life for the past 2 decades, I still need to run Windows for a
         | few specific flows, and I run into the same issues as the
         | article author here.
        
           | Alupis wrote:
           | AoE2 runs great on Linux[1]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.protondb.com/app/813780
        
             | brooke2k wrote:
             | CaptureAge does not, however.
        
               | Modified3019 wrote:
               | I don't use it myself, but this recently updated gist
               | seems to have it working: https://gist.github.com/Kjir/da
               | db0a2bc1a71aa265cfdbecaf7569b...
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | The best solution is Windows IoT LTSC. It has none of this crap
         | and you also don't have to deal with Linux's crap.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | I use Linux for almost all my machines, but I have too many
         | games that can only run on windows.
        
       | grishka wrote:
       | And Windows itself still costs money somehow, despite clearly
       | acting as a free product.
        
         | vee-kay wrote:
         | Windows 10 was indeed offered free worldwide to users already
         | using older licenced versions of Windows.
         | 
         | Microsoft even touted Windows 10 as last version of Windows.
         | 
         | But it was typical bait-and-switch gambit by Micro$oft, and
         | support for Windows 10 is ending in Oct 2025 (rejecting the
         | pleas from thousands of companies worldwide to extend its Win10
         | support for longer while), because M$ thinks everyone will
         | migrate to Windows 11 (not free).
         | 
         | However, many Win10 users will remain on Win10 for years (just
         | as they had stuck around with Win7/Win8 for years), and many
         | will migrate to Linux or MacOS instead.
         | 
         | Microsoft will out find the hard way that people can be as
         | stubborn as it can be.
        
           | eptcyka wrote:
           | Microsoft will learn nothing they didn't know before. They've
           | operated like this before, and their bottom line will not
           | suffer.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | W10 is actually still the majority of windows versions. You
           | can get 1 year extended support by switching to an online
           | admin login & syncing to ONeDrive or buying it (with $ or MS
           | points - whatever that is) and businesses can by 3 x1 year of
           | escalating priced support. Support for win10 ends on Tuesday
           | (oct 14)!
           | 
           | I know all this because my desktop that can easily run
           | triple-A video games isn't good enough (secure boot) to be
           | upgraded, so I'm supposed to buy a MS surface and use it as a
           | boat anchor I guess...
        
             | vee-kay wrote:
             | Then you'll be glad to know that you can bypass the TPM2.0
             | (Secure Boot) check that Win11 installation requires.
             | 
             | https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-
             | re...
             | 
             | https://gist.github.com/asheroto/5087d2a38b311b0c92be2a4f23
             | f...
             | 
             | So you can upgrade to Win11 even on an older PC. No need to
             | pay through the nose for extended Win10 Support.
             | 
             | But in my personal experience, Win10 runs better on older
             | PCs than Win11. I also prefer the Win1o0 start menu, to the
             | Win11 one.
        
               | a022311 wrote:
               | Yeah you can run Windows 11 on most Windows 10 machines,
               | but in exchange for "better security" you get a bloated
               | interface that just bogs down your perfectly fine
               | computer. Windows as a platform has so many security
               | holes that I think the chances of getting pwned by a very
               | specific Windows 10-only exploit are realistically zero.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | > because M$ thinks everyone will migrate to Windows 11 (not
           | free).
           | 
           | Pretty sure upgrade to Windows 11 is free for Windows 10
           | licenses, too. If you need a new computer, sure, most people
           | have a license tied to their computer, and they'll need a new
           | license for that.
        
       | izacus wrote:
       | Can someone answer why is this ok on iOS and macOS but not
       | Windows?
       | 
       | They all provide backup via their own paid clouds and ask for an
       | opt-in.
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | you sort of, answered your own question. the lack of user value
         | for microsoft is a keystone.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_(architecture)
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Err... I don't understand what keystone means in your
           | sentence.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Does iOS constantly (multiple times a day) spam you if you
         | don't enable backup?
         | 
         | (I've had it turned on for so long that I honestly don't know
         | what they do.)
        
           | CamJN wrote:
           | I've never enabled iCloud backups and it has never pestered
           | me about it after the initial iPhone setup process (the
           | modern version of which doesn't even pester me then since it
           | copies the setting from my last iPhone). I backup locally to
           | my mac, which admittedly they made require a password each
           | time now, which is a bit annoying, but it's not asking me to
           | enable icloud backups regardless.
        
             | musictubes wrote:
             | They have always required a password for encrypted backups,
             | do they now require for all local backups? Or is
             | unencrypted not an option anymore?
        
           | tallanvor wrote:
           | No, but I haven't seen Windows ask multiple times a day
           | either. But iOS does try to get me to turn on iCloud every
           | time the phone reboots and somewhat randomly without
           | rebooting.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Yes, it periodically pesters me with it.
        
         | badsectoracula wrote:
         | It is not ok on iOS or macOS or even Android or whatever else.
         | The _feature_ to have some online storage with backup is fine,
         | IMO, but what is not fine is the OS nagging you to use that
         | feature. This thing must be opt-in and _only_ if the user
         | themselves initiate it.
         | 
         | Also it should not be locked to a single online storage
         | provider but use some sort of standardized protocol (or at
         | least some pluggable mechanism) to allow any online storage
         | provider - including using self-hosted options - to work with
         | it.
         | 
         | This is how you make something that works for your users
         | instead of taking advantage of them.
        
         | GeekyBear wrote:
         | On MacOS, you still get local user accounts and Apple's
         | optional online features are still optional.
         | 
         | Microsoft is using all the levers at their disposal to force
         | users to use online Microsoft accounts to log onto their local
         | computer and even turn on formerly optional features like One
         | Drive.
         | 
         | My assumption is that Microsoft is using their access to user
         | data to build up everyone's advertising profile, and forcing
         | you to be logged on through a Microsoft account makes sure that
         | the data they collect is linked to a specific person.
         | 
         | Windows Recall is another example of a "feature" they wanted to
         | force on users that can be used to fill out everyone's
         | advertising profile.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Why is your assumption for Microsoft different from Apple?
        
             | stefanka wrote:
             | Apple's main revenue is not from advertising but mostly
             | from expensive hardware
        
             | GeekyBear wrote:
             | If Microsoft was worried about serving the needs of end
             | users, wouldn't they offer free customer service like Apple
             | does?
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | Frankly it's more of a fact than an occasionally seen odd
         | double standard behavior at this point. It's literally not okay
         | when Microsoft does it; iPhone users literally love this exact
         | same feature. They should be working a lot harder on solving
         | this mystery.
        
       | Podrod wrote:
       | I used to use Windows Backup with One Drive years ago but it just
       | really pissed me off, especially with how My Documents is
       | handled.
       | 
       | There was that time I discovered several GB of screenshots had
       | been automatically saved to My Pictures from some setting they
       | snuck into the printscreen screen grab tool and then that of
       | course those were automatically uploaded to the cloud. After
       | disabling the option it would sometimes reenable itself.
       | 
       | And game devs throwing random shit into My Documents was also
       | fun. Ubisoft were terrible for this, after playing a game I'd
       | notice a bunch of cache files they dumped into My Docs being
       | uploaded. I mean putting save games and config files inside my
       | docs is annoying enough, random cache files is just taking the
       | piss.
       | 
       | Also windows backup would mess up my desktop between systems on
       | occasion which was also very fun!
       | 
       | I disabled most of the shit but it was still annoying on
       | occasion. Then a year or two ago I solved the problem by just
       | using Linux for 90% of things, Mint at first but now Fedora, and
       | grudgingly booting back into Windows for the other 10% of my
       | needs.
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | I agree, nowadays Linux seems like the only reliable solution.
         | Even macOS, with the latest "liquid glass" update, feels like a
         | toy for kids.
         | 
         | I just wish the Affinity suite would be available for Linux
         | too.
        
           | Esophagus4 wrote:
           | Having run Linux every day, I can say we're in trouble if
           | that is the reliable option :)
           | 
           | (Agree that Liquid Glass is miserable, though.)
        
             | jaykru wrote:
             | I've faced many fewer hiccups on CachyOS/Arch in the past
             | few months than on Windows. In the first month of owning
             | this hardware, I had an unexplained BSOD that actually
             | bricked my whole Win11 install. And this is pretty
             | recent/funky 2-in-1 hardware, not an old ThinkPad I've
             | cherry-picked for good Linux support. This is an important
             | moment for free software; the big platforms are finally
             | cinching down on users hard enough that we have a shot at
             | convincing regular people to join us. Please don't blow it
             | with vague complaints.
        
               | rufugee wrote:
               | same experience here with Omarchy. it's been (mostly)
               | flawless. the only reason i keep windows around at this
               | point is fortnite.
        
               | rwyinuse wrote:
               | Yep, I dual boot Linux Mint & Windows 11 and only bother
               | with the latter when I need MS Teams, or some other
               | proprietary software that tends to be more reliable on
               | Windows. In terms of performance and user experience Mint
               | wins easily.
        
               | a022311 wrote:
               | I only rarely need to use Microsoft Office or Paint.NET
               | and a Windows VM on Linux has solved the problem entirely
               | for me. I don't know if videoconferencing would work as
               | well, but I'd really recommend giving it a try! I've
               | already gone without a proper Windows install for almost
               | 2 years.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | Since MS is making the office UX web based, I'd suggest
               | people try just loading 365 in a browser like edge (It's
               | generally flawless for MS products). Especially apps like
               | Teams.
               | 
               | Once you realize that the dedicated app is basically just
               | a browser shell, using a real browser becomes somewhat of
               | a no brainer.
               | 
               | Edge even supports PWAs on linux which can give you the
               | "app" experience without the app.
        
               | BLKNSLVR wrote:
               | But the browser versions of Office products royally suck.
               | I still actively use the 'open in app' option over the
               | default action of opening a document / spreadsheet in a
               | browser window. I wholly disagree with _It 's generally
               | flawless for MS products_
               | 
               | The Office-in-browser experience is laggy and slow and
               | long-learnt familiarities are gone.
               | 
               | Additional old-man whinge: Outlook keeps wanting to open
               | in a browser window now. I have enough things open in a
               | browser that are difficult enough to manage that I don't
               | need Outlook getting lost in that forest as well. It's
               | convenient having a separate Taskbar icon that will
               | definitely open my Calendar or Email.
               | 
               | When everything's a browser tab, what's the point of the
               | taskbar?
               | 
               | When everything's a browser tab then the browser is the
               | Operating System.
               | 
               | Every day I'm forced to use Microsoft at work, I'm
               | increasingly glad I ditched it at home.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | I don't know how it is today, but about 3 years ago I
               | worked in a shop that used MS Teams. I was sneaky enough
               | to get myself a Kubuntu install when everybody else was
               | on Windows, but I had no problems using Teams on Kubuntu
               | back then.
        
               | distances wrote:
               | The Teams Linux client was discontinued but it works well
               | enough in a browser.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | The Open Source ecosystem is a bit weird in that your
             | system can be as reliable or not as you want, depending on
             | what projects you follow. It really truly is a mixed bag in
             | the sense that you can actually have a solid setup if you
             | are happy with it being boring.
        
               | dapperdrake wrote:
               | Incidentally, most people seem to want their computer to
               | be the good kind of boring.
               | 
               | Especially non-tech people. Look at how popular Ubuntu
               | VMs are with research chemists. And successful chemists
               | tend to be highly technical.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | I'm not sure what the good kind of boring is, if we could
               | define it, it might be tautologically true that that's
               | the thing people want.
               | 
               | > Look at how popular Ubuntu VMs are with research
               | chemists.
               | 
               | Are they? I actually have no idea.
               | 
               | > And successful chemists tend to be highly technical.
               | 
               | But not necessarily in any IT sense. STEM skills are very
               | specific.
               | 
               | Sorry, it looks like I'm just being petulant and saying
               | "I'm not sure" about your every sentence, haha, that
               | wasn't my intent but it is what I ended up doing I guess.
        
               | the__alchemist wrote:
               | > The Open Source ecosystem is a bit weird in that your
               | system can be as reliable or not as you want
               | 
               | I'm going to dig into this a little. This feels like
               | shifting responsibility onto the user when things don't
               | go well. E.g. comparing the platonic ideal of Linux when
               | analyzing practical options. I make lots of mistakes in
               | all aspects of my life. I know historically, and
               | projecting into the future that I will get into trouble
               | with Linux, so I don't daily-drive it. Yes, there are
               | always ways to fix things when a system gets in a bad
               | state, but there is a time and effort cost to this.
               | 
               | Saying it's my fault for breaking it doesn't help restore
               | the system. e.g. "Should have used the LTS release",
               | "Should have only installed software from the package
               | manager", "Shouldn't have used sudo", "Shouldn't have
               | edited a system file without knowing what you're doing".
               | If I was doing those things, it probably seemed like the
               | best of available options, e.g. the only way to make a
               | certain piece of hardware or software work.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | I think it is an accurate description of the situation. I
               | agree that responsibility is accumulating at the user's
               | feet in an unfortunate manner.
               | 
               | But somebody must be responsible for making your computer
               | work, who should it be?
               | 
               | The companies that sell operating systems don't seem to
               | be fulfilling the obligation to make a bug free and user-
               | friendly OS. The Open Source community never really had
               | accepting that responsibility as a "business model"
               | because they aren't businesses.
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | But that's how it works with every other tool you own?
               | Nobody is complaining about the pencil manufacturer when
               | you choose to draw an image, which you later don't like.
               | Same with using software to modify the state of the hard
               | disk, which you don't like later.
               | 
               | In Windows or Darwin you are not responsible, because you
               | can't tell the computer what you want to do, but in a
               | free OS, you can and do order what the computer is doing
               | and that's why you also need to deal with the
               | consequences.
        
               | the__alchemist wrote:
               | I agree! My thought is this: The mechanical pencil is
               | drawing that image because there are a combination of
               | settings on it don't work well for a given use case. When
               | adjusting the settings, I get poor results, or something
               | breaks. The schematics are available and parts are
               | available for the repair, but the job still takes a
               | while, and I don't know how to do it. My friend has fixed
               | something like it before, but his pencil's controls were
               | different, and some of the tools are no longer available
               | for the way he did it. I would prefer if the pencil
               | worked out of the box, because I'm an artist; not a
               | pencil engineer.
               | 
               | I instead buy a pencil from a different brand. It doesn't
               | come in the color I want, but it's good enough, and lets
               | me focus on the drawing. The pencil engineers and
               | enthusiasts keep telling me the customizable mechanical
               | pencil is much better. They love it, have learned its
               | intricacies, and take pride in this.
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | It really depends on your hardware/distro combo.
               | 
               | Buy a newly announced Windows laptop with a new CPU
               | model. Try Ubuntu, you're day is about to suck.
        
             | yehat wrote:
             | Seriously, such remarks add nothing except exposing
             | intended bias. In other words that's called a trolling.
        
               | brooke2k wrote:
               | Holding the opinion that Linux is currently the most
               | reliable OS option is "trolling"?
        
               | asimovfan wrote:
               | He's saying its not very good if thats the case. Which is
               | not the case. I am satisfied with GNU+Linux. It doesn't
               | work against me. It would be great if there were FOSS
               | alternatives to the remaining proprietary software on my
               | computers. Making it sound like linux is almost just as
               | bad, does sound weird. Also nothing about what's actually
               | that bad about "linux".
        
               | a123b456c wrote:
               | I would call it a constructive contrarian claim, quite
               | distinct from trolling.
        
             | psadauskas wrote:
             | MacOS and Windows might break[1] less often than Linux, but
             | when it does I stand less of a chance of fixing it. Linux
             | is usually more fiddly, but if does something I don't want
             | its usually only a few minutes to find the config file or a
             | plugin for the Desktop Environment to alter the behavior.
             | 
             | [1]: "Break" here meaning "behaves in a way I don't want"
        
           | delusional wrote:
           | > feels like a toy for kids.
           | 
           | I wish unserious complaining like this wasn't mixed with
           | actual technical criticism of software.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | It is very serious. I love the way Catalina and Mojave
             | looks; dark mode or light mode, it just _screams_
             | "professional" at the top of it's lungs.
             | 
             | Big Sur is, somehow, the exact opposite. Corners are
             | rounded off as if they could hurt someone, and margins are
             | padded more than a cell in solitary confinement. Space is
             | wasted everywhere. It's Fischer-Price design philosophy and
             | I'm hardly the only one to point it out.
             | 
             | In a side-by-side, so much screen real estate gets wasted
             | that it's genuinely disgusting:
             | https://www.andrewdenty.com/blog/assets/img/macos-new-
             | ui/fin...
        
               | thewebguyd wrote:
               | Agree on all points. Tahoe ruined macOS for me. Not only
               | does it waste screen real estate, but it's not performant
               | at all and my M4 pro is no slouch.
               | 
               | Just feels like I'm using an iPad now.
               | 
               | Here's a fun exercise. Look at how huge the window
               | borders are to achieve that insane corner radius. The
               | cursor changes to the resize arrow at the corner before
               | it even touches the window, the bottom arrow is a good
               | 4-5px away from the window lol.
        
               | dapperdrake wrote:
               | Touch and mouse interfaces simply are different. After
               | over a decade of pretending otherwise there are now
               | sufficiently many counter-examples.
        
               | delusional wrote:
               | > Space is wasted everywhere.
               | 
               | Sure, that's a reasonable technical criticism. Wasted
               | screen space is, in my opinion, an issue in modern
               | interface design trends. Good design uses space in a
               | thoughtful manner. The designers of macOS clearly don't
               | agree with us, but we can have a reasonable technical
               | discussion about that. We can consult the data. We can
               | consult the users.
               | 
               | > It's Fischer-Price design philosophy
               | 
               | You're mixing the two again. Fisher-Price was not
               | consulted in the design of modern macOS interfaces, and
               | complaining about not liking the design language cheapens
               | all your actual points. No real discussion can be had
               | around this taste garbage. You're rage baiting.
        
               | barbs wrote:
               | It objectively does feel like a toy with those rounded
               | corners though. How do you know Fischer-Price wasn't
               | consulted?
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | It doesn't seem like a toy to me. Therefore, it is not
               | objective but is just your subjective opinion. Which is
               | fine, but don't overstate your opinions as being
               | objective when they aren't.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | I think that "serious" is not the right word here. But
               | rather, saying "it's like a toy" is not _constructive_.
               | When someone says  "it looks like a toy" that tells me
               | nothing about what they don't like about it. Saying "I
               | don't like the rounded corners and wasted space" is
               | something concrete you can have a discussion about, so
               | it's better to use that kind of phrasing.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | Toy design isn't objectively bad. Windows XP has many
               | colorful, misshapen buttons and they're _amazing_ for the
               | vision-impaired, same goes for Apple 's _Aqua_ UI.
               | Fischer-Price design language is arguably why the iPhone
               | is so popular, when you deploy it with _intent_ the
               | results can be spectacular.
               | 
               | What is the intent of dumbing-down the Mac design
               | language? iOS superfans already have devices to use, the
               | Mac has to compete in the _professional_ segment of the
               | market, not the casual one. The only motivation I can see
               | is to enforce solidarity with VisionOS, which by most
               | accounts seems to be a professional flop too. An
               | ecosystem shouldn 't aim for superficial similarity
               | across devices, each experience should enforce their
               | unique strengths/weaknesses in the UI and then network
               | their state to each-other in the background. Apple _used
               | to_ know this.
        
           | astral_drama wrote:
           | Tahoe crippled my Intel 2019 MBP and cost me plenty of time
           | and incurred a lot of frustration until I gave up and
           | reformat the ssd.
           | 
           | I am switching to Linux for both my desktop and laptop from
           | here on out.
        
             | unlikelytomato wrote:
             | Does a premium hardware solution exist that competes with
             | MacBook on practical battery life?
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Probably not quite, though recent laptops improved. But
               | on a desktop setup it doesn't matter anyway.
        
               | astral_drama wrote:
               | I'm giving the Asus Proart P16 a try, if I was trying for
               | maximum battery life I'd probably avoid the discrete gpu
               | (e.g. a zenbook or similar). I am not a full time road
               | warrior so battery life is important, but not absolutely
               | critical. There may be some options out with better
               | battery life, but I haven't been focused on this metric
               | too closely.
               | 
               | I just don't want to be sidetracked by overly aggressive
               | and pushy decisions by my OS vendor anymore. I've been
               | happy with the stability of my Debian/Ubuntu systems for
               | getting work done. I have been using apple laptops for
               | 10+ years, and I still like their build quality, but I
               | don't like the direction macOS (or Windows) is heading.
        
           | sys_64738 wrote:
           | Tahoe's saving grace is docker support which is superb now.
        
           | citizenkeen wrote:
           | With Affinity (likely) switching to a subscription model, I
           | wouldn't hold out hope they're avoiding enshitification.
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | My 2c. I agree with the parent and article: OneDrive can be a
           | major problem with Windows. They push it on you, your
           | personal documents can be moved to OneDrive without your
           | permission etc. Confusing and user-hostile design.
           | 
           | Linux has its own idiosyncrasies, which may or may not make
           | it worth. E.g. ABI diaspora, installing things can be
           | inconsistent and high-effort, the cycle of copy+pasting CLI
           | commands and system file edits from old forum posts or these
           | days LLMs to fix something, treating your PC like a multi-
           | user system that has an admin by default, etc. My general
           | experience is that installation and things work smoothly with
           | the built-in or package-managed software, but gradually
           | degrade as you start installing software and drivers.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | > treating your PC like a multi-user system that has an
             | admin by default, etc.
             | 
             | I think I have the opposite orientation: In the past when
             | family and friends needed help to install/rescue their
             | machine (on Windows versions that supported it) I always
             | ensured there was a separate "Manager" admin login and then
             | made their main account "limited", albeit with UAC popups.
             | 
             | If nothing else, it made repeat visits much easier.
        
           | al_borland wrote:
           | Do you think it looks like a toy just because of how it
           | looks, or because of how it works?
           | 
           | Spotlight got a major update in macOS 26 where it can now
           | perform actions. I can open spotlight and type "run <enter>
           | <some terminal command or script>" and get the output right
           | there, selecting it will put the resulting text into my
           | current window.                   16:16  up 23:27, 1 user,
           | load averages: 1.72 1.78 1.90
           | 
           | There is my uptime posted in HN with only Spotlight and my
           | hands never leaving the keyboard.
           | 
           | Spotlight is also context aware... Say I run across some text
           | in another language:                   Spiegami come funziona
           | questo coso.
           | 
           | I can highlight, invoke spotlight, type translate, it will
           | recognize I want to translate the selected text, translate it
           | inside of Spotlight, and if arrow down and press enter, it
           | will paste the translated text over the original text, if
           | editable, or copy it to the clipboard. There is also a built-
           | in clipboard history.
           | 
           | I'm not a fan of all the UI choices that have been made, but
           | those will get ironed out over time. Meanwhile, I get some
           | more powerful out of the box features without needing to
           | resort to 3rd party apps.
        
         | nolist_policy wrote:
         | It's interesting how ChromeOS respects your choices more than
         | Windows here.
         | 
         | There is a setting to disable Google Drive and it just works.
         | It won't auto-enable, no popups or nags or anything. Even
         | Google Docs/Workspace falls back to a trimmed down offline
         | version.
        
           | crote wrote:
           | On the other hand, Android keeps nagging me about enabling
           | backups in Google Photos. I'm always one accidental click of
           | the huge "Okay!" button in an unexpected popup away from
           | having my data being uploaded to Google.
        
             | a022311 wrote:
             | I've solved this long ago by disabling the app. Sadly, that
             | means I can't view videos in the gallery, but I believe
             | it's a fair compromise. I'd recommend taking a look at open
             | source alternatives like Lavender Photos [1] or Fossify
             | Gallery [2]
             | 
             | [1]: https://github.com/kaii-lb/LavenderPhotos
             | 
             | [2]: https://github.com/FossifyOrg/Gallery
        
             | distances wrote:
             | This was a genuinely baffling product decision. I couldn't
             | continue using Photos due to this nagging dialog.
             | 
             | Google has another photo gallery app called just Gallery,
             | that's what I'm now using.
             | 
             | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.an
             | d...
        
           | 9x39 wrote:
           | The PMs can't start out being aggressive, though, that comes
           | after dominating the market, right? ChromeOS and Google Drive
           | are generally good products which are probably so as to get
           | penetration and stickiness.
           | 
           | Perhaps Gmail is a better example to see the incumbent acting
           | as it wishes, enabling and disabling features without worry
           | about the end user's POV.
        
           | close04 wrote:
           | After setting up an Android phone for someone recently, I
           | think it's stuffed with dark patterns. The amount of times
           | that OS was pushing me to enable or opt-out from syncing
           | different things to their cloud and generally sabotage the
           | privacy via various settings was staggering.
           | 
           | Windows is certainly on the same path but I'm not sure how
           | far ahead or behind they are in the competition to screw
           | their users over with these dark patterns. They only have to
           | trick you once.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | It enables in non-consensual manners, break apps and
         | games(because paths change and APIs work differently), clings
         | onto your files even if you tried to save them from the
         | OneDrive folder, and _throws a tantrum and irreversibly delete
         | your files if you dare unlink the PC and disable it_.
         | 
         | I don't know why they commit to especially the last part. To
         | me, it feels like that is why Microsoft's Windows efforts are
         | getting a lot of negative press lately; there must be lots of
         | writers and media individuals who had lost data to that exact
         | behavior who are now perpetually biased against them for that
         | reason.
         | 
         | Just why?
        
           | keyringlight wrote:
           | I think it's the curse of windows being attached to a tech
           | company, and a tech company seems to want to keep pursuing
           | cool things(tm) instead of boring maintenance on a utility.
           | Over the years lots of little extra non-essential
           | functionality has crept into windows to where you could
           | almost compare it with a lightweight linux distro, or that
           | it's hard to draw the line where the OS ends, and then you're
           | getting into territory where everyone relies upon a different
           | subset of what's available which MS has been increasingly
           | able to use to justify adding more 'essential' features for
           | modern computing.
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | > cool things(tm) instead of boring maintenance on a utilit
             | 
             | You can't re-sell a boring utility every one/two/three
             | years.
             | 
             | Nobody wants it - not the top management (bonuses for the
             | _revenue growth_ ), nor the middle management (bonuses for
             | the succesful _new_ projects), nor the guys who implements
             | the things ( _reconginition_ for the new projects).
             | 
             | Or talking simpler - KPI. And there is no 'we improved the
             | stability for 0.0000002% of clients' indicator along with
             | 'customers are happy with the thing we sold them in 2017'.
             | 
             | And don't forget what it was some fruit company what even
             | wasn't in the corporate which made it fashionable to have a
             | 'totes new and refreshing experience (along with a hefty
             | price tag)' every year or two.
        
               | brianwawok wrote:
               | Stability, performance, security, all of this stuff
               | doesn't matter until it becomes a crisis, then it's the
               | most important thing in the world
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | _don 't know why they commit to especially the last part._
           | 
           | MS thinks it knows better than you. It thinks its owns your
           | data. Remember that this has happened before (7 years ago!):
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18189139
        
         | aldebran wrote:
         | ^this is good, legit feedback for why this product/feature
         | isn't good. It's not just "MSFT BAD!". Thanks for sharing.
        
           | Telaneo wrote:
           | The list of mind-boggling design decisions MS has made at
           | this point is so long at this point that I don't blame people
           | any more for saying 'MS bad'. Just pointing at the start menu
           | search and Everything tells you everything you need to know,
           | and more or less sets the tone you can expect from MS
           | decision making.
        
         | abtinf wrote:
         | Config files should go elsewhere, but save files seem like the
         | should definitely go in mydocs.
        
           | Telaneo wrote:
           | Maybe, but not by default. But games as a rule don't give you
           | the option to change this, so you're stuck with that one game
           | and that one program using My Documents as a dumping ground
           | without your consent, and now My Documents is no longer
           | really your folder any more, at which point people make a
           | folder on their desktop or whereever else called My Documents
           | But For Real This Time or whatever.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | I've been a Mac & Linux user since about 2007 or so, and I had
         | no idea what Windows had become. Then a couple weeks ago I
         | caved and built my son a Windows gaming PC. Egads, Windows is
         | annoying! Even more so than I remember! I'm amazed that people
         | actually put up with it for their daily driver. Right on
         | schedule, my son came to me yesterday evening and asked what he
         | should do about the backup warning. It didn't give any option
         | other than enabling backup or telling it to remind later. WTF.
         | 
         | Not to say that MacOS isn't occasionally very annoying as well.
         | It is. But as a tool it's also much more useful than vanilla
         | Windows, which helps a little.
        
           | zwnow wrote:
           | People dont care about their operating system. Most Mac users
           | never learn Mac and most Windows users never learn windows.
           | They use their computers for emails, some presentations and
           | occasional gaming. They dont want to learn different kinds of
           | software. Which is fine. For most people its just a power
           | tool they never read the manual for. They dont even know what
           | other tools there are so they dont know that life could be
           | better, by not using windows.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | > Most Mac users never learn Mac and most Windows users
             | never learn windows.
             | 
             | Why bother when annual releases will change everything?
             | 
             | > For most people its just a power tool they never read the
             | manual for.
             | 
             | What manual?
        
               | zwnow wrote:
               | You should read the manual to how metaphors work
        
             | vee-kay wrote:
             | I just wish MacOS would allow me to have the Minimize,
             | Maximize/Restore,Close buttons on top-right corner (default
             | in Windows), rather than top-left (which is counter-
             | intuitive for right-handed users, using the mouse).
             | 
             | Even Linux allows such basic customization.
             | 
             | If Apple allowed this type of user-friendly customisation
             | on MacOS, I suspect a lot of Windows users will migrate to
             | Mac.
        
               | JadeNB wrote:
               | > I just wish MacOS would allow me to have the Minimize,
               | Maximize/Restore,Close buttons on top-right corner
               | (default in Windows), rather than top-left (which is
               | counter-intuitive for right-handed users, using the
               | mouse).
               | 
               | > Even Linux allows such basic customization.
               | 
               | Does Windows allow such customization? I think that's the
               | relevant comparison. Both macOS and Windows are trying to
               | be "user-friendly," which more and more means "take what
               | we tell you and like it." I personally am a techie and
               | like the Unix way of exposing everything that one can
               | imagine to customization, but I do know that I'm often
               | lost when I want to learn a new piece of customization-
               | minded software and have to decide how to, and whether
               | to, twiddle lots of knobs before even getting into just
               | using it. I think that there's definitely a reasonable
               | place for an OS that spends its time getting those
               | settings right so that the user doesn't have to worry
               | about them.
               | 
               | (Whether any particular setting is right or wrong is, of
               | course, going to depend on the user. I'm a Mac user,
               | there are some defaults I've always hated, and others
               | that I think used to be good but are moving in the wrong
               | direction. But, so far, I stick with it at least in part
               | because there are lots of other things it gets right, and
               | it doesn't feel fundamentally hostile to me in the way
               | that Windows does.)
        
               | unlikelytomato wrote:
               | I have extreme doubts that there is any meaningful number
               | of windows users holding out on trying macos based on
               | such a thing.
               | 
               | The users are much more simple than this. Most have never
               | even tried Mac. If they want to, they will just buy one
               | the next time they need a computer and accept the new
               | experience as being the new norm.
        
               | radley wrote:
               | > I just wish MacOS would allow me to have the Minimize,
               | Maximize/Restore,Close buttons on top-right corner
               | (default in Windows), rather than top-left (which is
               | counter-intuitive for right-handed users, using the
               | mouse).
               | 
               | Classic Mac OS was released first, with well-considered,
               | consistent design standards. Windows arrived almost 2
               | years later, and in the interest of not looking it like
               | copied Macs, Microsoft essentially flipped the positions
               | of everything, including window controls, toolbars,
               | desktop icon placement, and button order. (Yes, both
               | copied Bell Labs).
               | 
               | Windows has no standards, so maybe they could provide
               | that kind of option instead.
        
             | 3form wrote:
             | Exactly! The lesson that Microsoft doesn't want to learn.
        
           | Delk wrote:
           | On their own devices, lots of non-power users probably just
           | accept whatever Windows suggests. Enterprise versions of
           | Windows either don't have a lot of the crap or they allow it
           | to be disabled by company IT.
           | 
           | Techie users might just find tweaks online that allows
           | disabling dark patterns on their devices.
           | 
           | I don't know how people who care but aren't techie enough to
           | install workarounds (or to tell good ones from bad ones)
           | deal.
        
             | excalibur wrote:
             | > Enterprise versions of Windows either don't have a lot of
             | the crap or they allow it to be disabled by company IT.
             | 
             | Generally if the company is deploying Windows they are
             | using OneDrive, although the exact configuration will vary.
             | 
             | Windows has always been designed with corporate customers
             | in mind. That's true more than ever today, the whole Azure
             | ecosystem is very lucrative for them. Personal Windows
             | users have always been an afterthought, but starting around
             | Windows 10 they became less important than their own data.
             | Which Microsoft has been getting away with brazenly
             | claiming as its own.
        
           | RHSeeger wrote:
           | My Mac tells me 5+ times per day that it's unable to backup
           | something or another because I'm not logged into the Apple
           | cloud or whatever it's called. And there's not obvious way to
           | make it stop.
           | 
           | This is not unique to Windows.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | I don't run into that, but I do have an iCloud account and
             | I'm logged into it, which probably helps. I'm logged into
             | my Microsoft account on Windows, too, but it is still
             | pushy.
        
           | aeon_ai wrote:
           | Bail and go Linux.
        
           | anjel wrote:
           | I think you're using "annoying" here to describe what is in
           | fact, flat-out inappropriate.
        
           | dingdingdang wrote:
           | The only, as per personal exp, way to properly setup a Win11
           | machine these days is strictly via LTSC release and WinUtil
           | from Chris Titus + local account - clean and no "feature"
           | updates for almost 10 yrs. Add to that Chocolatey for package
           | management that takes away the "every piece of software adds
           | it's own autoupdater crap"-pain and the OS is suddenly very
           | capable for almost all computing needs.
        
             | magic_hamster wrote:
             | It's worth mentioning that 10 also has LTSC variants, the
             | IoT LTSC version in particular will be supported with
             | security updates until 2032 if I recall.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | Is buying the Enterprise version another method? I heard
             | someone suggest that, but without any explanation other
             | than it allowed you to use Windows without a Microsoft
             | account. Is there something that makes it unsuitable for
             | gaming?
        
               | okanat wrote:
               | You cannot simply buy Enterprise edition. It is
               | subscription-only. It comes with Enterprise subscription
               | to M365.
        
             | 3form wrote:
             | It's funny to me to see that to achieve this Linux-like
             | result you need to go through the Linux-like installation
             | process.
        
               | hiq wrote:
               | > Linux-like installation process
               | 
               | Maybe that of 20 years ago, it's very smooth these days
               | if you use e.g. Debian.
        
           | pityJuke wrote:
           | Personally, I use ShutUp10!, and after running it once, it
           | settles everything down and Windows is my preferred OS
           | experience.
        
         | zaptheimpaler wrote:
         | > And game devs throwing random shit into My Documents was also
         | fun.
         | 
         | I hate this problem with all OSes. We have folders that started
         | out being places for users to put things like Pictures,
         | Documents & home, but over time they get filled with crap from
         | software and it's difficult to find your own files. We should
         | have had a "program-files" subfolder or something by default in
         | all these places to separate things that applications put there
         | vs. things that you put there.
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | We do! On Windows, it's (user profile)\AppData. And to be
           | fair, most software does use that. But there are always bad
           | citizens that don't care and clutter up the user's documents
           | folder.
        
             | zaptheimpaler wrote:
             | That's nice, I think Linux/XDG has some standards around
             | this too, but they too are not enforced - and many people
             | have no idea these standards even exist unless the OS warns
             | or enforces these things. I think there might also be some
             | gap between "these files are only internally needed by this
             | software" vs. "these files are created by this software,
             | but may be good to show them to the user". It's nice the
             | OSes are making efforts to do that though!
        
             | jowea wrote:
             | Speaking for myself, but I would my game saves and config
             | in the cloud if I were using OneDrive. That is however a
             | separate issue from whether those files should be in the
             | hidden appdata or in the visible my documents.
        
         | codingrightnow wrote:
         | I just bought my first windows 11 computer. Why are my personal
         | folders like pictures and documents under a OneDrive folder?
         | This is insane. Going to see how Ubuntu runs on it and
         | hopefully never look back.
        
           | vee-kay wrote:
           | In Win10/Win11, you can move your user folders to another
           | partition or folder path.
           | 
           | Right-click on them in Explorer, go to Properties, click on
           | Location tab, and type/select the new path for them, click
           | Move... then that folder and its contents will be moved to
           | new locate.
           | 
           | I've movier following to D: partition as root-level folders:
           | Contacts, Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Favorites, Links,
           | Music, Pictures, Saved Games, Searches, Videos.
        
         | qwerty456127 wrote:
         | > especially with how My Documents is handled
         | 
         | I stopped using these long ago because every other app you
         | install puts something there so it becomes a landfill
         | automatically.
         | 
         | Just create an additional partition and put all your non-OS
         | files there. This is a classic idea people have been using
         | since the DOS days, still working great.
        
       | CrossVR wrote:
       | Since no one mentioned how to actually dismiss the notification
       | forever:
       | 
       | OneDrive is treated as a normal app that is installed by default,
       | you can actually just uninstall it through Add or Remove Programs
       | in the Control Panel.
        
         | soupbowl wrote:
         | During a major update it will be reinstalled.
        
           | armada651 wrote:
           | That's about as close to forever as you can get with
           | Microsoft.
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | Nuts. Is this still true? I just setup a Win11 Pro machine
           | for a very non-technical person. Uninstalled OneDrive, hoping
           | to minimize future pain when 90% of the needs are just a web
           | browser and storing camera pictures.
           | 
           | (No, Linux was not an option)
        
             | 9x39 wrote:
             | I have absolutely seen them reinstall components like that,
             | force their AV back on, force Windows Update back on, etc.
             | It's probably actually good imo for the users I've seen,
             | but admittedly "computer says no" is infuriating if you're
             | sure of what you want.
             | 
             | Try using Group Policy to disable it. I think Applocker is
             | on Win 11 Pro now - if it is, you can block the execution
             | of whatever programs and DLLs you want. I've used that to
             | block Windows Update.
        
               | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
               | Well, I will at least throw in the Group Policy tweak
               | when I have the chance. Thanks for the tip.
        
               | 9x39 wrote:
               | There is almost certainly a registry key you can set as
               | well. 5 ways to do something, none documented officially.
        
               | ocdtrekkie wrote:
               | Yeah for myself Pro licensing and domain is the way to go
               | so I can configure Windows similar to my work network at
               | home. But for people who have Home licenses I just set
               | the registry keys. Windows Home doesn't have a UI to set
               | policy, but it does obey it if the keys are there.
               | 
               | (This is a must-have to turn off web browser antifeatures
               | as well, you can't block extension install from the
               | browser settings for any browser but you can by policy.)
        
               | vee-kay wrote:
               | Not just in Win11, AppLocker can be used in Win10 too.
               | 
               | AppLocker is included with all editions of Windows except
               | Windows 10 version 1809 or earlier.
               | 
               | Applocker can help prevent users from running unwanted
               | software (including DLLs and scripts).
               | 
               | However, AppLocker requires Local Security Policy, which
               | isn't available in Home edition of Windows, but it can be
               | installed easily for free.
               | 
               | https://www.thewindowsclub.com/local-security-policy-
               | missing...
               | 
               | Here's how to use AppLocker to block an unwanted app:
               | 
               | https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/124008-use-applocker-
               | all...
        
             | queenkjuul wrote:
             | OneDrive has yet to reappear on my Windows machines, but I
             | mostly only use 10 still, 11 could be that shitty
        
             | hulitu wrote:
             | > Nuts. Is this still true?
             | 
             | Yes. Microsoft wants to protect you. /s
        
           | Alupis wrote:
           | Along with Teams if you have Microsoft 365 for Business.
           | 
           | Bejeweled and friends tend to show back up again on consumer
           | machines too, I've noticed.
           | 
           | Absolute headache...
        
         | rs186 wrote:
         | Or turn off all OneDrive notifications as a less intrusive
         | method. It has worked for me well enough so far.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | I've started using Tiny11 on all my setups, then running
         | DeBloat afterwards. This removes every piece of crapware* and
         | none of them seem to try to reinstall on update (so far,
         | fingers crossed).
         | 
         | https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2024/01/08/the-complete-tiny1...
         | 
         | https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat
         | 
         | * be warned, this also removes Edge, so you have to grab your
         | own browser installer of choice
        
           | vee-kay wrote:
           | I use Brave browser (a Chromium fork) on my old Win10 PC, and
           | it is fast and stable even with tons of tabs/site open. One
           | can disable its unnecessary features (VPN, Brave Rewards,
           | etc).
           | 
           | Please note that Brave browser in mobile these days gives
           | problems for some websites like Reddit.com, etc. Same sites
           | open fine with Edge (another Chromium fork) and Firefox
           | (Gecko engine).
           | 
           | I hate Chrome & Edge and their nasty of creating multiple
           | instances and auto-starting and running in background even
           | when I am not using the browser.
           | 
           | If I recall right, Chrome uses to have an nasty memory
           | leakage issue so it will keep chugging for more memory even
           | if not in active use.
           | 
           | Firefox uses to be sluggish, but it is better these days, and
           | its extensions/plugins support (especially on Android!) is
           | necessary to block ads & trackers (via uBlock Origin and
           | Privacy Badger extension) is highly useful and necessary.
           | 
           | I prefer Brave for PC and Firefox for Android.
        
       | brirec wrote:
       | > Do you think Microsoft understands consent?
       | 
       | > ( ) Yes
       | 
       | > (*) Remind me in 3 days
        
         | Viliam1234 wrote:
         | That's already an improvement over having the first option
         | selected by default.
        
           | Tepix wrote:
           | Probably not voluntary - it's because preselecting the yes
           | option is violating european laws.
        
         | fainpul wrote:
         | +----------------------------+       |
         | |       |            Yes             |       |
         | |       +----------------------------+
         | 
         | n  lr
        
       | icameron wrote:
       | OP doesn't say why they are against free cloud backup, and it
       | doesn't matter, but (like everything else in Windows) there's a
       | registry setting you could change to disable the notification. I
       | think it is
       | 
       | ` HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Notifications\
       | Settings\Microsoft.SkyDrive.Desktop\Enabled = 0 (DWORD) `
       | 
       | https://www.urtech.ca/2018/03/solved-gpos-to-disable-notific...
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | And folks say Linux setup is hard.
        
           | a022311 wrote:
           | Yeah, at least if something breaks, I can be proud that I
           | broke it and not some company flipping switches behind the
           | scenes...
        
         | firefoxd wrote:
         | Author here. I'm not against against free cloud back up. I was
         | a Ubuntu One user before it shutdown. The problem isn't even
         | that you can disable it via the registry.
         | 
         | The problem is that looking at the presented options, you can
         | basically choose "Yes" or "OK".
        
           | 9x39 wrote:
           | Yeah, Windows users are used to the setting schizophrenia
           | (5-6 places to control things), but if we met Windows today
           | in 2025 it would be ridiculous.
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | Fine, there's a registry option. Do you think 99% of users even
         | know what a registry is?
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Hmm, I wonder if this setting can be 'read only' for the admin,
         | or if MS tries to update it with the SYSTEM user.
        
         | user____name wrote:
         | I get frequent requests from like 4 vendors to get ""free""
         | cloud backup.
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | Oh so Linux is hard because you have to sometimes use the
         | command line. Then people suggest registry hacks to make
         | Windows work properly. Then Microsoft will just flip your
         | registry setting back anyways. Stockholm syndrome is crazy.
        
       | whywhywhywhy wrote:
       | Hope the PM in charge with the scammy copy designed to trick
       | people into turning this on is happy with the boost in free users
       | falling for it.
       | 
       | My dad turned it on not knowing what it meant and it completely
       | messed up his workflows and now I have to figure out how to
       | safely disable it and move his files back.
       | 
       | I will remember Microsoft causing this problem for him every time
       | I think of or get asked if someone should use a Microsoft product
       | or service.
        
         | nomilk wrote:
         | This work is 10x more effort than it sounds too due to how
         | severely mistakes are penalised (i.e. unrecoverable files),
         | necessitating extreme caution.
         | 
         | When uploading 10k photos from macOS to Google Cloud using the
         | Google Cloud macOS app, it said syncing had completed about 2
         | hours earlier than my back-of-the-envelope calculations
         | predicted. "Great", I thought, but was still a bit suspicious,
         | so just in case, before deleting the local copy, I closed the
         | Google Drive app and reopened it, and it immediately started
         | syncing - there were 2k photos/videos to go (!!). That's how
         | insanely easily it could be to lose precious memories due to a
         | tiniest bug in cloud software.
         | 
         | Surgical precision and extreme thoroughness are the only ways
         | to approach these seemingly simple operations of moving files
         | from one computer to another.
        
           | erikpukinskis wrote:
           | I wish more software companies had a core value of "every
           | user created bit is sacred."
           | 
           | Storage is cheap enough that this attitude is possible.
           | 
           | But I guess keeping all of your designers aware of it across
           | thousands of teams is too hard.
        
             | crote wrote:
             | > every user created bit is sacred
             | 
             | They only care about the bits they can sell to advertisers.
             | Actual user data is only a burden to them, and occasional
             | data loss is not a big deal.
        
             | BiteCode_dev wrote:
             | As usual, user are not making them paying the price for
             | being badly treated. Software companies do this because
             | they can get away with it, that's it.
             | 
             | Even on HN many people can't be arse to use Firefox, how
             | could we expect anyone to avoid giants like Microsoft?
        
               | queenkjuul wrote:
               | Sadly Firefox has been utter garbage for me the last few
               | months, routinely hangs for me on 3 different machines
               | across two different OSes.
               | 
               | Running out of options these days
        
               | queenkjuul wrote:
               | Wow four downvotes and no replies for stating my literal
               | experience with Firefox the last few months lmao. Never
               | change HN
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Honestly, the Google Drive for Desktop app was extremely
           | reliable when Google was managing the files.
           | 
           | Then when macOS provided native support for cloud
           | filesystems, it migrated to that. And it's been a complete
           | mess. Uploads often don't get triggered until you restart the
           | system, exactly what you're describing.
           | 
           | I'm pretty sure they're Apple macOS bugs, not Google ones.
           | Because those kinds of bugs are constant across everything
           | iCloud and Mac, but I don't generally see them on Google-only
           | stuff.
        
             | vladvasiliu wrote:
             | > when macOS provided native support for cloud filesystems
             | 
             | When was that? I haven't regularly used a Mac in a good
             | four years. At the time I had the Google Drive app with a
             | business subscription, and I don't think there was any
             | other option. It was terrible, to the point I completely
             | gave up on it. Just like the other poster says, it would
             | say, "I'm all synced up", but only half my files would be
             | synced. I'd need to restart it to get syncing again. When I
             | would try to get a large amount of files from the cloud to
             | local storage, it would randomly crap out.
             | 
             | Basically, it would stall very often, and this was on wired
             | gigabit ethernet, not some spotty mobile connection from a
             | phone via wifi in a crowded cafe.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | May 2022:
               | 
               | https://support.google.com/a/answer/13067413
               | 
               | Apple calls it File Provider.
               | 
               | I've been using the Google Drive for Desktop file
               | streaming version since it launched in 2017 (file
               | streaming, not exactly sync), I think it was originally
               | called Google DriveFS, and never had any problems until
               | they switched to Apple's File Provider.
               | 
               | There's a different Drive app that only did sync, I think
               | that's what you're talking about. It's much older. Then
               | they got merged into the current one.
        
             | Jach wrote:
             | How many people who owned iPods had their music collection
             | deleted by iTunes? Apple software not caring about the
             | user's bits doesn't seem new...
        
         | smileson2 wrote:
         | Face the facts your dad isn't as important as KPIs tied to one
         | drive and 365 subscription numbers, don't blame the PM for
         | making Microsoft money lol
         | 
         | It's not even something you have to "fix" just pay and enjoy
        
           | bonoboTP wrote:
           | It seems that after the 90s/00s MS hate, there was a period
           | where MS was seen as the good guys, and "this isn't the same
           | MS" etc. Seems to be turning around again.
        
             | happymellon wrote:
             | I never got the "this isn't the same Microsoft" talk.
             | Usually used to shut down anyone's complaints about bad or
             | deceptive behaviour. Not the same Microsoft, so this time
             | must be a mistake!
             | 
             | Except they were still claiming to love Linux whilst paying
             | off government officials to hurt adoption amongst other
             | deceptive behaviour.
        
             | hulitu wrote:
             | > there was a period where MS was seen as the good guys
             | 
             | Some people are really naive.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | There was a period when they were as hostile to Linux and
               | non-Windows as a competitor would naturally be, but they
               | were not hostile to users.
               | 
               | Try Windows 98/2K in a VM and see how peaceful the
               | Windows experience used to be.
        
         | ndiddy wrote:
         | Doing shady stuff to juice KPIs seems like standard operating
         | procedure at Microsoft. My favorite example of this is a few
         | years after Windows Phone came out (when it was already clear
         | it was going to be a failure), Microsoft announced they would
         | be paying developers $100 per app (up to 20 apps) for ANYTHING
         | submitted to the Windows Phone store. Clearly some executive
         | was being graded on "number of apps in the store". As expected,
         | this resulted in Windows Phone having a wide and varied
         | selection of apps as long as all you needed was Chuck Norris
         | jokes, fart apps, soundboards, whack-a-mole, Simon, etc.
        
         | aldebran wrote:
         | HN seems to think PMs have a lot more power at Microsoft or
         | large corps than they actually do. I assure you, a bunch of
         | this stuff just comes top down because some VP's million dollar
         | bonus rides on it.
        
           | OptionOfT wrote:
           | The mandate to implement these kind of pop-ups doesn't come
           | from above.
           | 
           | The mandate to identify ways to increase profit comes from
           | above, and it is the PMs (through
           | marketing/research/developers) that come up with ways to
           | satisfy these requirements.
           | 
           | And failure to meet these requirements means a bad review and
           | a chance of being laid off.
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | I wish they gave more attention to the many bugs.
         | 
         | One is the many many years old renaming trouble, renaming a
         | file in Windows Explorer inside the OneDrive sometimes select
         | all while I am alread typing extension to the end of the file
         | name, clearing everything with the following keystroke, either
         | resulting in something stupid saved on Enter if I do not
         | realise what is happening (and being mad not remembering what
         | the original name was), or just have to cancel and restart the
         | renaming. Very frequent and annoying.
         | 
         | But a ... lets call it funny, so a funny trouble I recently
         | discovered is that file name completely fine with Wndows is
         | incompatible with OneDrive, OneDriva mandates me to "change the
         | filename! change it!" (with different words but the same tone).
         | What the f! Microsoft is not compatible with itself? : D What a
         | clusterfuck. It is fairly new, I believe there are spaces in
         | fron of the file name that is generated with some software I am
         | trying, I don't care that much, nonessential, but very comedic.
         | I have too much difficulty with using Windows to care with all
         | the trouble and spend any time on those, I work around those, I
         | increasingly give no f. (my work mandates Windows, ah!)
         | 
         | I also seen some sort of message box when a certain software
         | tried to automatically open a newly created file in OneDrive,
         | something like this: "The file
         | http://sharepoint.blablabl/bla/bla/newly_created_file.ext"
         | cannot be found. Whaaaat?! I work with a desktiop only
         | software, it does not even care about internet connection.
         | Saving the file to an ordinary folder works great, opens
         | automatically. Sounds like at some point querying the full path
         | of the file produces an internet address? Again, I give no sh
         | _t to this cr_ p that much to go ino and investigate and
         | diagnose this hundredths of bug, just to have fruitless
         | conversation a very understanding and very useless support guy
         | or a forum audience suggesting how should I wrap my life around
         | the stupidity of Windows.
        
           | hulitu wrote:
           | > I wish they gave more attention to the many bugs.
           | 
           | We all wish that. But if you look at their responses, when
           | people report bugs, tough times. They. Don't. Give. A. Shit.
        
         | JohnTHaller wrote:
         | A family friend upgraded to Windows 11 and had it helpfully
         | turned on personal files being OneDrive enabled. It ate up her
         | free space and suddenly she couldn't receive or reply to email
         | anymore. She was nearly 80 and had no idea why until she had
         | randomly asked me to help her with something on her computer.
         | 
         | This is an instance of Microsoft being evil.
        
       | robin_reala wrote:
       | I get absurdly annoyed at "Maybe later" buttons. No, go away,
       | never come back, I'm genuinely not interested.
        
         | quadrifoliate wrote:
         | In my opinion, "Maybe Later" buttons are actually useful _if
         | implemented for the user 's benefit_. For example, maybe I _do_
         | want to hear about OneDrive but I don 't have time now. It's a
         | reasonable middle ground between Yes and No.
         | 
         | But the problem is that modern tech companies are using it as a
         | dark pattern to completely eliminate the No option. Sadly, I
         | think this just might need to be regulated out. I don't see any
         | reason why there _shouldn '_ be a regulation that a "Maybe
         | Later" button can't appear in a prompt as the only alternative
         | to Yes, there needs to be a No/Never option as well.
        
           | Viliam1234 wrote:
           | Exactly. I wouldn't mind having _three_ options:  "Yes",
           | "Maybe Later", and "No". It's the missing third option that
           | sucks.
           | 
           | Like in Android: Do you want to back up your photos to the
           | cloud? "Yes" or "Maybe later" which means being asked every
           | week. Also, the checkbox is selected by default, and if you
           | close the dialog by accidentally clicking outside of it
           | (maybe because you were already going to click on something
           | else, and the dialog opened in the last millisecond) that by
           | Google standards counts as consent.
           | 
           | Of course, turning on the backup of photos in clouds only
           | requires a single click (or misclick), but turning it off
           | requires following a long tutorial very carefully...
        
           | 1718627440 wrote:
           | The classic implementation for this is Yes and No buttons and
           | then a checkbox to remember the selection.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Besides serving as a dark pattern, it also relieves devs from
         | having ti store and check a user preference. You know, mutable
         | state is bad, including user preferences. ;)
        
       | zb3 wrote:
       | Everytime I see "maybe later" without the "no, never" option I
       | want to slap the person who did this in the face.
        
       | PeterStuer wrote:
       | These are the reasons people are leaving Windows. Give it 2 more
       | iterations of Steam OS and "Home" will see a no longer negliable
       | decline.
        
       | proactivesvcs wrote:
       | Last time I tried to restore a file from a customer's onedrive it
       | just failed with a variety of 500 errors or just blank pages. The
       | reason I was trying to restore it was because windows had moved
       | all of their files into onedrive without their informed consent
       | and (at least) this one was no longer accessible.
       | 
       | onedrive is not a backup: like all automatic sync systems it is a
       | liability. It may be useful but it is still a liability.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | And more importantly: it's not yours.
        
       | lelandfe wrote:
       | Reminds me of the iOS Gmail app. You click a link and a sheet
       | appears to select a browser: Safari, Download Chrome, or System
       | Default.
       | 
       | There's a checkbox, but instead of "Remember my choice" it is
       | "Ask every time." Diabolical.
        
       | 8cvor6j844qw_d6 wrote:
       | OneDrive has a pretty annoying interaction with Microsoft Office-
       | PDF exports (not print to PDF).
       | 
       | If you export a PDF to a OneDrive folder, Office (especially
       | Word) will instead create this file onto OneDrive itself (not
       | local).
       | 
       | Its a 50/50 chance that your local OneDrive will sync it properly
       | especially if you're in a fast workflow (e.g., preparing for a
       | meeting soon with minor amendments) or you wait for several
       | minutes for it to sync or you logon to OneDrive web to get
       | manually download the file.
       | 
       | You pretty much have to export to a non-OneDrive synced folder
       | for PDF export to work on local reliably.
        
       | jmward01 wrote:
       | I turn off every 'to cloud' option I can find on any device I
       | have. Apple's iCloud is just as evil. I have turned that off so
       | many times over the years it makes me angry. It is clear that
       | these companies push 'cloud' in general as a dark pattern to lock
       | you in and harvest your data and actions. Even if they don't
       | train directly, the metadata of usage is all there and I find it
       | hard to believe they don't harvest every bit they can. We need
       | laws and protections that require cloud independence similar to
       | the browser wars. If you have a 'cloud' offering baked into your
       | OS then it must be a competitive market offering. You should also
       | be able to easily migrate to different cloud offerings.
        
       | lambdaone wrote:
       | At this point, Windows has jumped the shark. It's clear Microsoft
       | now see the future of their company as cloud services, with the
       | desktop gateways just as an endpoint for that, and the
       | progressive enshittification of the Microsoft ecosystem has
       | reached the point at which it is no longer the sensible OS for
       | the mainstream, but is now a gamified mess like pay-to-play
       | gaming.
       | 
       | Fortunately for most of us, Linux and MacOS exist. But companies
       | that have built their entire IT infrastructure on Windows really
       | have no clear way out other than to follow Microsoft down the
       | rabbit hole - which is, of course, the whole point of these
       | recent changes.
        
       | georgeburdell wrote:
       | I recently was forced to get Windows 11 because my new build's
       | motherboard only supported UEFI and there was some
       | incompatibility with my 10 year old Windows 10 boot disk. Windows
       | 11 is an abomination; I paid $200 for a Pro license and I still
       | get ads. My kids will be learning computing on Linux.
        
         | vee-kay wrote:
         | No ads still on Win10, thankfully.
         | 
         | That Win11 is not an OS, it is an advertisement billboard.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | It's pretty horrible. When I use Windows, my foremost reaction
         | is "how can they expect _me_ to put up with this? " before
         | walking away in disgust. I get offended, and I'm a sysadmin
         | professionally.
         | 
         | Then I remember, in a moment of Eldritch revelation, my _mom_
         | daily-drives this OS. My siblings and cousins probably use it
         | at work. Billions of people around the world chafe through
         | these lockscreen ads,  "live tile" updates, OneDrive nags,
         | Windows + G Xbox Game Bar (whatever the _fuck_ that is),
         | Cortana... it 's baffling. The same thing runs through my head
         | looking at recent macOS screenshots. Are geriatrics _really_
         | expected to put up with _all this_ theatrical nonsense? Is this
         | subscription service racket _really_ more attractive than
         | trying to compete as a normal desktop?
         | 
         | Been using Linux for six years now. I cannot remember a single
         | time I've truly missed Windows or macOS.
        
           | jasonfarnon wrote:
           | "Are geriatrics really expected to put up with all this
           | theatrical nonsense"
           | 
           | reminds of circa 2000 watching all the new Internet users
           | struggling with the multiple/cascade pop-ups on websites.
           | That's what's so odious about the situation now: The OS bears
           | the same relationship to the user as those spammy websites.
           | 
           | speaking of "geriatrics" I wonder if the youth are actually
           | responsible for a lot of this, unintentionally. this constant
           | line between corporations and my device reminds me mainly of
           | the smartphone experience. And, I'm told, modern videogames.
           | Older folks like me tend to thnk of their desktop OS as
           | inviolate--too many decades when a program phoning home on
           | its own without my permission meant virus or other grave
           | problem. Maybe people who grow up with smartphones don't have
           | this boundary. Msft would know this.
        
       | chasing0entropy wrote:
       | It baffles me how many people on HN cannot operate with a simple
       | deny-all firewall. The windows version and updates I install are
       | the only updates installed. The files I back up are the only
       | files that back up. Nothing can connect to the internet. Not
       | Windows Update, Not google chrome update, Not onedrive, Nor any
       | virus or malware program.
       | 
       | Reliance on the internet is the problem. No windows version
       | including windows 11 REQUIRES the internet to operate. Install
       | your OS from disk. Activate by phone(or don't bother...). Install
       | seasoned updates from catalog. If the program wont specify the
       | ports and servers it uses, DON'T USE IT AND DONT WRITE CODE FOR
       | IT.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | Eh, lots of us use Little Snitch or the equivalent. But I
         | confess that seems like victim blaming to me. Users shouldn't
         | be expected to watch their freaking OS vendor like a hawk.
         | That's the one vendor you kind of have to trust: if they're
         | lying to you about what they're doing, all bets are off.
         | 
         | This to me sounds like "I check my tire pressure every 8 miles
         | because I don't want them to explode catastrophically like they
         | do for other people. Everyone should be doing this!" No. No,
         | everyone should not _have_ to do this.
        
           | nomilk wrote:
           | > seems like victim blaming to me
           | 
           | I admit to being in the category OP speaks of; i.e. would
           | love control over what programs can access over the internet,
           | but haven't the slightest clue how to set it up and manage it
           | day to day.
        
         | nomilk wrote:
         | > It baffles me how many people on HN cannot operate with a
         | simple deny-all firewall
         | 
         | What is the barrier IYO, is it that awareness (or technical
         | knowledge) just isn't there, or that installing isn't the issue
         | but doing day to day work with a restrictive firewall becomes
         | an inconvenience?
        
         | eptcyka wrote:
         | I do not believe it is reasonable to use an OS where you need
         | to do hostage negotiation on a daily basis. If you need to go
         | this far, what will you do when an MS update adds a bypass for
         | the firewall you're using?
        
           | Telaneo wrote:
           | > I do not believe it is reasonable to use an OS where you
           | need to do hostage negotiation on a daily basis.
           | 
           | So much this. It's not that technically minded people can't
           | figure out how to florb the nerfwedge. It's that it shouldn't
           | be needed to begin with, and you have to know about it to
           | begin with (which usually happens by getting burned by not
           | doing it, either with one's own machine, or a friend's or
           | family member's machine).
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | Maybe just don't use Windows and dont write code for it... and
         | especially don't give them $200 for the Pro version, because
         | that is nothing but a signal that you're willing to keep
         | letting him fuck you while you write them a check.
        
       | aboringusername wrote:
       | I've often wondered if there is a way you can be malicious with
       | this, a way of 'beating' them at their own game.
       | 
       | 1: Make random files full of absolute garbage data
       | 
       | 2: Upload 5GB of garbage data, delete (free limit capacity)
       | 
       | 3: Repeat 1 and 2, forever, 24/7.
       | 
       | At 10mbps it would take 68.3 minutes, at 50mbps it would take
       | 13.7 minutes to upload 5gb.
       | 
       | At 10mbps you could upload 5gb 7665 times, at 50mbps 38,325 times
       | a year.
       | 
       | that works out to 38,325gb/10mbps and 191,625 GB at 50mbps per
       | year
       | 
       | So yeah, if Microsoft wants to allow a user to upload 10's of
       | thousands of completely worthless useless bytes of data and
       | delete and reupload why not?
       | 
       | Anyone care to think how many hard drives you could destroy with
       | the constant writing? And you could also automate downloads too,
       | so they have to deal with reads.
       | 
       | Let's see how long they want your 'data' for then ey?
       | 
       | Consider it a digital form of 'fly tipping' and it's completely
       | free, legal and they have begged you to do it!
        
         | cute_boi wrote:
         | i guess they will ban those type of account and the user may
         | not even be able to log in...
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | i think thats the idea.
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | This is the worst part of modern computing: Companies trying to
       | get you to do things (or trick you into doing them, or worst:
       | forcing you to do them as a condition of using the product). What
       | ever happened to the user being in charge and deciding what to do
       | with his computer? These dark patterns are getting so tiring.
       | Companies need to butt out and _offer_ features, not coerce
       | people into using them.
        
       | lisper wrote:
       | It's the same with Apple OS updates. I hardly ever want to update
       | my Apple devices. The odds that such an update will actually
       | improve my UX are indistinguishable from zero nowadays, and the
       | odds that it will break something that I rely on are very nearly
       | 1. (And yes, I get that I'm not getting security updates. That's
       | a risk that I'm wiling to take in order to have an otherwise
       | stable system.) And yet, I cannot get my Apple devices to stop
       | nagging me.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | More files to train the AI on ;)
       | 
       | Seriously though: kick the habit, just move off Windows, the
       | longer you stay in the harder it is to get out.
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | I just want to rant a bit about Microsoft right now.
       | 
       | A few weeks ago, Microsoft decided to auto-update my mom's
       | computer to Windows 11, and delightfully the computer no longer
       | booted. Even after a litany of different boot keystrokes and
       | automatic repairs and attempted recoveries, it would not boot. I
       | _think_ it has something to do with the utter incompetence of the
       | Windows automatic update process not correctly updating keys to
       | satisfy UEFI but I am not sure.
       | 
       | Of course my parents being my parents, there were tons of
       | precious documents that were not backed up anywhere else, so we
       | needed to get them off before doing anything nuclear. After
       | awhile, I was able to talk my dad through flashing an Ubuntu
       | image and I was able to get a live USB going (because as far as I
       | am aware there isn't a legitimate way to do a live USB with
       | Windows), and from there he read me a tmate URL and I was able to
       | mount the drive and rsync all the data to my server.
       | 
       | With many, many failed attempts at trying to convince them to
       | install Linux Mint, I eventually walked them through flashing a
       | USB drive with Windows 11, and we were able to nuke the drive and
       | install Windows 11, which seems to be working, so I guess all's
       | well that ends well, but not really. Key point here, before
       | anyone says anything, the laptop is a bit old but it seems to be
       | able to run Windows 11 just fine, it's just the automatic update
       | that broke it.
       | 
       | You might be saying "live and let live, if they're happy with
       | Windows then stop trying to force them to use Linux", and to that
       | I would say "it's not just about them". When something breaks on
       | their computer, it's expected that I am the one who fixes it.
       | Microsoft, a for-profit trillion-dollar corporation, is so
       | utterly bad at their main job that they actively broke my
       | mother's computer with an automatic update that she couldn't
       | easily opt out of for an operating system she didn't want, and if
       | she didn't have a son who was a software engineer she would have
       | been forced to buy a new computer. For all I know, another
       | Windows 11 auto update will come in two weeks and break the
       | computer, and I will be stuck going through this nonsense yet
       | again, because I love my parents and I want to help them out.
       | 
       | If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, especially if you work
       | on the automatic update or the Windows 11 team, I'm afraid that I
       | have to say that I actively dislike you. You've cost me many days
       | of effort because ultimately I think you are extremely bad at
       | your jobs and you should consider doing literally anything else.
        
         | 9x39 wrote:
         | Been there - I help a lot of older folks with their business
         | computers.
         | 
         | The desire to make Windows an appliance falls flat when older
         | PCs get on that auto-update treadmill.
         | 
         | For example, Windows now comes OEM with Bitlocker drive
         | encryption enabled. Good in theory - when you toss/donate/sell
         | your old PC, normies don't think about their personal lives and
         | banking details being available, so that's good. However, they
         | almost never get backups working right, and this cripples
         | anyone from rescuing them from a drive failure in a critical PC
         | that has their entire business books on it. This is not
         | uncommon.
         | 
         | I think it's the unfortunate result of different PMs for
         | different features strong-arming things on, but at different
         | paces and maturity levels, and the result is Windows isn't safe
         | to trust for the non-technical user.
         | 
         | My checklist these days when I end up assuming responsibility
         | for someone: Drive encryption off, Passwords into a manager,
         | Backups set, Updates disabled, Remote access installed.
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | The fact that it's 2025 and there's no legitimate way to run
           | a live USB with Windows baffles me.
           | 
           | In the case of my mom's computer rescue, as far as I can
           | tell, literally the only legal way to recover my mom's
           | Windows NTFS drive contents was _to use Linux_. I _had to use
           | Linux_ to fix Microsoft 's incompetence.
           | 
           | I am quite confident that my mom would mostly be fine with
           | Linux Mint on this computer; 99% of what she does on the
           | computer is use Chrome, which works fine on Linux. Hell,
           | _Edge_ works fine on Linux now if you want to stay in the
           | Microsoft ecosystem. The only blocker now is that I am
           | positive that she will not use a computer unless it can run
           | Microsoft Office directly on the computer, and I have not
           | been successful getting Office 2016 or Office 365 running on
           | Linux with Wine or Proton in my attempts.
           | 
           | Maybe for Christmas I will buy my mom a Macbook or something.
           | Then she'll be forced to move to something better.
        
             | 9x39 wrote:
             | Yeah, Proton and Wine seem perfect for gaming, but I have
             | never seen someone get Office right. That might be an
             | audience difference or perhaps MS deliberately frustrates
             | that attempt.
             | 
             | You could try 11 IOT LTSC[1] which is super-stripped down
             | like an appliance. Set a few GPOs, get her files synced,
             | set remote access. You could even do something like
             | DeepFreeze if she's prone to clicking on the wrong thing.
             | Restricting her to running Chrome and Office with Applocker
             | is a possibility for her safety - I have literally
             | interrupted scammers "from Microsoft" on the phone with the
             | elderly and naive.
             | 
             | https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-
             | windows-...
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | I'm not sure my mom even does anything that the browser
               | Office won't do; she uses Excel heavily but she's not
               | using any advanced formulas or VBA or anything, and her
               | use of Microsoft Word is generally using pretty basic
               | formatting. Honestly I don't think that she does anything
               | that can't easily be handled by Google Drive or
               | OnlyOffice. That doesn't matter though; the web browser
               | is a complete non-starter, and if it doesn't have the
               | Microsoft Office branding she doesn't want to go for it.
               | 
               | This didn't used to bother me much, until Microsoft
               | decided it would be best to brick her computer because
               | the people who run Windows Update don't know what they're
               | doing. The _one job_ of Windows Update is to not break
               | shit, and they 've proven incapable of that. Whomever
               | works on it should be embarrassed for working on one of
               | the most consistently hated pieces of technology know to
               | humanity.
               | 
               | I thought about using one of those appliance releases of
               | Windows, but I also don't really want to LARP as a
               | Windows Sysadmin, especially since I don't even have a
               | Windows computer in my house. If I were to somehow
               | convince her to use Linux, there would be "security via
               | ignorance"; she doesn't know anything about how to use
               | Linux so she wouldn't do much outside of the easy,
               | relatively safe path, and if she did break it then it
               | would be much easier for me to log in and fix it with
               | tmate or Tailscale + SSH.
        
               | 9x39 wrote:
               | If she insists on Office and won't try Google Drive,
               | perhaps you could experiment with setting up Office in a
               | Chrome PWA for her and sidestep Windows?
        
             | queenkjuul wrote:
             | Try out WinBoat. It seems to work really well for Office.
             | Runs it in a Windows docker container so no Proton or
             | libvirt stuff to fiddle with.
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | Interesting. I haven't heard about that one, I'll give a
               | try today.
               | 
               | ETA
               | 
               | I installed it, and it works remarkably well. I'll try
               | pitching it to my parents.
        
         | stefanka wrote:
         | After the upgrade (which I even don't remember allowing), I had
         | double UEFI entries. Cost me nearly a day to be able to boot
         | windows (and it works only from the Linux boot menu)
        
         | keyringlight wrote:
         | On a tangent, one thing I wonder about for the future is all
         | the people doing bypasses on the CPU requirements will at some
         | point in the future be left high and dry. There's already been
         | one win11 update where they started to need the popcnt
         | extension that started showing up in CPUs after roughly 2008,
         | raising the hard requirement from anything that's x64 although
         | still below the official reqs. The scenario I wonder about is
         | how many well meaning upgrades have been done to keep people on
         | a supported version of windows, but MS can either update so the
         | hard requirement matches official and leaves a lot unbootable,
         | or detect it's actually unsupported and at that point refuse to
         | update (I guess at that point you need another campaign such as
         | "end of win11 25h2" to raise awareness of service pack levels
         | subdividing the major OS version) while MS can point to "well,
         | we never supported them anyway" as though that fixes the
         | problem.
         | 
         | I'm struggling to think of a way out that doesn't involve
         | forcefully educating users or MS needing to maintain a low
         | requirements/long term support branch of windows forever
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | In my case, I was able to install a vanilla Windows 11 ISO
           | with a flash drive, downloaded directly from Microsoft, so
           | it's not like I was bypassing any CPU checks. All I had to do
           | was muck about a bit in the BIOS/EFI to tell it to boot from
           | the flash drive.
           | 
           | Part of the reason I like Linux, despite its occasional
           | headaches, is how willing they are to keep supporting old
           | computers. There are lots of distros that are lightweight
           | while still being modern. Oh, and it won't automatically
           | install an update and brick the computer, and even if I did I
           | could use a modern filesystem that supports proper snapshots
           | instead and recover, instead of something from 1993 that
           | doesn't have any modern features.
           | 
           | I didn't hate Windows this much until a few weeks ago. I'm
           | very annoyed.
        
       | cute_boi wrote:
       | These small paper cuts are the reason i had to choose linux and
       | for 4-5 years, i haven't faced that much trouble.
        
       | 9x39 wrote:
       | At this point, the OS is mostly on autopilot for home users, and
       | I'm not sure that's a bad thing - Google defaults to saving
       | everything in a cloud, and the experience of Google Drive is
       | pretty similar.
       | 
       | The corporate user and the power user are expected to use group
       | policy to control their OneDrive, and they do. You can also sort-
       | of force turn it and other components off with their App Locker
       | system.
       | 
       | The home user probably should just allow it? If you want to plant
       | a flag in the ground and say, no, the computer is mine and it
       | shall obey, I can't argue on that ground except to say
       | indifference among consumers outnumbers you. We accept less than
       | total control in phones, cars, refrigerators...
       | 
       | I do a fair bit of pro bono help with small businesses and older
       | people and the expectation that your computer should just save
       | your stuff is pretty strong. Perhaps it was trained it by non-
       | free software, but I think MS product managers are correct in
       | betting people want Windows to be batteries included when it
       | comes to saving peoples stuff.
       | 
       | Again, the power user has control, you just have to exercise it.
        
       | tavavex wrote:
       | Why did we universally decide that this stuff is okay to do for
       | businesses? Is it just because it's legal? Imagine if agreeing to
       | things anywhere else in the real world worked the same way it
       | does with Microsoft.
       | 
       | Hi there, would you like me to come in and talk about my religion
       | and what types of nonbelievers deserve to be tortured for
       | eternity? No? Okay, sounds good. I'll just plaster these signs
       | and posters all over your property, so if you change your mind,
       | you'll immediately know where to go. You'll only see them once a
       | day, every time you exit your house! Also, for your own
       | convenience, we'll be watching your front door, and every time
       | you reenter your house we'll be nullifying your past response, so
       | you'll just have to tell no to our faces again.
       | 
       | Hey, I really wanna do this thing with you, do you consent to it?
       | You don't? You say you don't want to see me ever again? Okay,
       | okay, chill out. But in case if you change your mind, I'll be
       | asking you again every day of your life. It's for your own sake.
       | Also, one day, I might see the smile on your face and just
       | "assume" you'd definitely agree. But don't worry, that's just a
       | minor, accidental, technical mishap! I'm committed to helping you
       | and enriching your life. I care about you, don't you see.
        
       | jim_lawless wrote:
       | I asked ChatGPT to write a Windows GUI C program that looks for a
       | running instance of the onedrive EXE at regular intervals and
       | terminates it while keeping a running log of the attempts in a
       | scrolling window. It took a few iterations to get what I wanted
       | and it was simple to compile with GCC.
       | 
       | You can use a Powershell to see if onedrive.exe is running and
       | kill it with the -force option to do something similar ( ps *
       | onedrive * | kill -force ) with no spaces between the asterisks
       | and the word onedrive, but that turned out to be a little heavier
       | to have running continuously than I wanted.
       | 
       | If you use a process like this, you absolutely need to run it at
       | intervals because the onedrive exe seems to execute at regular
       | intervals.
        
         | hereme888 wrote:
         | Why not just uninstall it via powershell scripts like those
         | available from privacy.sexy?
         | 
         | I gutted OneDrive so hard it will likely never come back.
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | it'll come back in the next windows update
        
         | 9x39 wrote:
         | Hopefully everyone uses an Enterprise SKU of Windows so you can
         | just control it with Group Policy.
         | 
         | On Enterprise, you can use its built-in App Locker features to
         | block the execution of any Windows component. I've used it to
         | block Windows Update completely at home after it filled my
         | drive to the last byte and I was sick of my gaming box
         | disobeying.
        
         | dmitrygr wrote:
         | This will wreck havoc on your battery life, consider instead
         | replacing onedrive.exe with a dummy executable and then using
         | NTFS ACLs to deny "TrustedInstaller" permission to modify it
        
       | buybackoff wrote:
       | I wonder if most complaints are about pre-installed OEM Windows
       | Home (the one with Candy Crush and 10s of other crap, including
       | from a vendor) and bundled crappy cut-off OneDrive? I have
       | Windows Pro and Office 365 Family option (5 accounts, full Office
       | and 1TB OneDrive each). Most user-hidden Windows settings are in
       | Group Policy Editor, or registry still works. OneDrive proper has
       | toggles for every folder (Desktop, Documents, Puctures) discussed
       | in the post.
       | 
       | After I lost 8 months of photos with a phone ~10 years ago, being
       | sure it was all backed to Google Photos, I would rather trust
       | Microsoft, than risk losing data, and now backup to both clouds.
       | The paid Office+OneDrive is great value.
       | 
       | It just works. Yes, defaults are annoying, but could be changed.
       | I recently enabled a blocked-by-default outgoing firewall, and I
       | have much more questions to JetBrains Rider trying to ignore my
       | system DNS setting and so to bypass Pi-Hole multiple times per
       | minute, than to Microsoft.
        
         | 9x39 wrote:
         | That is probably the case, but Windows has always been
         | schizophrenic when it comes to settings - there's the UI, the
         | control panel, the second new control panel, the cli, group
         | policy, the registry...
         | 
         | Frame it as "it's 2025 and this is my first look at Windows",
         | it's pretty bad, and it sucks because if they installed on a
         | Home SKU, we end up having to tell them to reinstall to get
         | control.
         | 
         | Maybe we have Stockholm syndrome.
        
           | buybackoff wrote:
           | Microsoft is notoriously bad with naming. In this case likely
           | intentionally. The SKUs: Home = Crap, Pro = OKish Windows,
           | Enterprise = Pro. But people who do not care about lack of
           | RDP server, Hyper-V, BitLocker do not care about the rest,
           | probably. Then confusion araises from "first look at Windows"
           | by pro users.
        
       | lutusp wrote:
       | > "What if I just don't want OneDrive? Microsoft has embedded it
       | so deep into Windows that there are no easy ways of getting rid
       | of it."
       | 
       | This is not so, at least for the present. In current Windows
       | releases, go to "Control Panel," then "Programs and Features",
       | then _select and uninstall OneDrive_. If it 's not installed, it
       | cannot run.
       | 
       | Before you do this, make sure you have moved all your files from
       | OneDrive to your local storage devices.
       | 
       | In the future, Microsoft will doubtless make OneDrive mandatory,
       | along with requiring everyone to have a Microsoft account and
       | watch their ads 24/7. But there's a remedy for that too --
       | install Linux. "Yet another European government is ditching
       | Microsoft for Linux" : https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-german-
       | state-schleswig-hol...
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | There are few things that irritate me more than the gradual
       | replacing of "Yes / No" with "Yes / Maybe later".
       | 
       | It's so disrespectful, infantilizing, and paternalistic.
       | 
       | But you see it everywhere now -- Microsoft, Apple, mainstream
       | respected news and media sites constantly asking if you want to
       | use their app instead of their site, or upgrade your plan.
       | 
       | And I don't understand _why_. It 's hard to believe it increases
       | conversion. But it does make people like me angry at the brand.
        
         | Telaneo wrote:
         | > It's hard to believe it increases conversion.
         | 
         | It isn't for me. I see people being converted just to stop the
         | nagging, or just doing it on auto-pilot. It worries me, but it
         | makes it pretty obvious why the corps aren't asking for proper
         | consent. They don't care, they don't need to, and it's clearly
         | working.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | What I'm saying is, if they're going to nag you _anyways_ ,
           | "yes/maybe later" doesn't obviously seem more likely to get
           | people to click yes than "yes/no". In response to e.g. "Do
           | you want to enable x right now?"
           | 
           | I believe nagging increases conversion. I'm just taking about
           | the obnoxious "maybe later" wording.
        
       | mrandish wrote:
       | What makes this even worse is that MSFT doesn't just do it with
       | their "free", subsidized or bundled versions. They also do it to
       | users who are using the full paid versions of the OS and Office.
       | I paid an extra hundred dollars to get Windows Pro pre-installed
       | on my laptop and a key reason I did so was to avoid this crap.
       | But they still have all the same upsells and dark patterns.
       | 
       | All Windows Pro gives me is the very complex enterprise policy
       | manager with its thousands of options but all the upsell nags,
       | user privacy and other "good for MSFT monetization" options are
       | still defaulted on in Windows Pro. And these options are buried
       | deep in separate tree nodes. It's the same dark pattern Facebook
       | uses around privacy settings. Whenever they _have_ to provide
       | privacy options that allow opting out they adopt  "malicious
       | compliance" and over do it in as granular and complex a way as
       | possible - with no "opt out of everything" macro option.
       | 
       | Now I know that I can change all the policy manager options in
       | the registry editor too, and frankly, it's not really much more
       | complex. A couple years ago I realized I make so many changes
       | fixing a new Windows install to be livable and useful that I'd
       | never remember them all. So every time I make a registry change
       | to fix something, I store a registry script that'll make the edit
       | automatically in dedicated folder on my server (it's easy to
       | export a single registry key as a script). As of today there are
       | over a hundred scripts there. I'm getting to the point where I'm
       | probably going to switch to Linux soon. Which sucks because I
       | used to really _like_ Windows (with a few notable exceptions
       | which can be addressed with fixes and helper apps). But the level
       | of work required to keep Windows usable and useful has
       | skyrocketed in recent years. Before I was just dealing with
       | occasional random bugs, regressions and feature oversights by a
       | generally well intentioned OS vendor. Now I 'm fighting a rapidly
       | escalating battle against a malicious opponent. It's so dumb
       | because I'd actually pay $100/yr for a "Power Windows" version
       | with no ads, upsells, agenda promotions, dark patterns and a full
       | restoration of all the power user features they keep dropping
       | from Windows 11 (like advanced taskbar functionality).
        
         | 9x39 wrote:
         | I hear where you're coming from. The corporate shops customize
         | fleets with group policy and InTune, and it's a hassle to do
         | the same one-off at home.
         | 
         | You might get traction with trying the IOT LTSC versions, which
         | are often very stripped down. Used to be LTSB, then LTSC, but
         | now on 11 I think you need to opt for IOT LTSC which is
         | different than just LTSC.
         | 
         | IOT LTSC will have half the processes out of the box and less
         | bullshit that you hate. It's possible apps that do OS checks
         | will grump at you - Adobe Lightroom for example comes to mind,
         | but it's an idea.
        
           | mrandish wrote:
           | Thanks for the suggestion. I'll put it on the list for when
           | I'm next forced to reinstall. That's when I'll take a hard
           | look at how well I can replicate the Windows experience (back
           | when it was still good) on Linux.
        
       | goda90 wrote:
       | My work decided OneDrive is how we'd do files. One of the worst
       | parts is that it makes the recently changed files section of
       | Explorer basically worthless.
        
       | foofoo12 wrote:
       | At least be thankful you can say "no" more than three times.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45551504
        
       | quantumwoke wrote:
       | I will never trust OneDrive with any files after it silently
       | deleted thousands of my files while syncing - I hit the hidden
       | maximum number of files limit and then it permanently deleted the
       | remaining files with no warning.
        
       | rs186 wrote:
       | I just turn off notifications for OneDrive which ... works quite
       | well so far. At least system notifications work as expected, and
       | Microsoft has not (yet) allowed OneDrive to ignore system
       | settings for now.
        
       | Derbasti wrote:
       | Here's your reminder that you can uninstall OneDrive in Europe.
        
       | djoldman wrote:
       | The OTA car updates, the OS's doing stuff we don't want, the ads
       | on phones and websites, buying something on a new website knowing
       | you're immediately put on an email list that you'll immediately
       | unsubscribe from...
       | 
       | It's tough being a user.
       | 
       | Imagine being a non-tech savvy one who just has to wade through
       | all that and doesn't know how to block it.
        
       | Freedumbs wrote:
       | It was really fun when the rearranged the directory structure to
       | place all files under onedrive. I created a new directory
       | outside, copy pasted everything, then deleted onedrive contents.
       | Windows is all sorts of hell.
        
       | a022311 wrote:
       | Back when I was using Windows, I had enabled this feature too
       | (before I knew much about privacy) and when I finally decided to
       | get rid of it, I remember consistently failing to disable
       | OneDrive. I would log out, uninstall the app and then try to move
       | my Desktop folder out of "OneDrive" in my home directory and next
       | boot I'd have 2 folders again (with the "OneDrive" one being
       | used, of course). I ended up reinstalling for another reason, but
       | that finally fixed the problem.
       | 
       | I deleted everything from my OneDrive today and got especially
       | mad that the Android app shows a download icon in folder details
       | yet it's disabled. There's absolutely no way to get your files
       | through there. Had to log in on the web just to get a ZIP of
       | everything (it's surprising that's still possible). As soon as I
       | move off Outlook I'm out of this ecosystem.
        
         | fluidcruft wrote:
         | I think OneDrive has an "oops I accidentally rm-rf /" window
         | for deletions. Anyway OneDrive used to drive me nuts until
         | somehow it all just clicked in some sort of "aha!" zen mode so
         | I haven't had much trouble with in a long time. The biggest
         | issue is often large changes will time out without error and
         | you have to kick it in the pants a few times.
        
           | a022311 wrote:
           | Sorry if it wasn't clear in the original post, I meant I
           | consciously deleted everything after getting sick and tired
           | of the terrible UX.
           | 
           | It's not like I was storing anything meaningful there anyway,
           | I hadn't logged in for a year and I don't regret doing so. I
           | also got an email for deleting many files, which I happily
           | ignored.
        
             | fluidcruft wrote:
             | No I think you were clear, I was more responding that what
             | you are describing sounds like when OneDrive gets stuck
             | with a sync task that hasn't completed and doesn't know how
             | to force to happen.
        
         | vee-kay wrote:
         | You can disable OneDrive using App locker.
         | 
         | Applocker can help prevent users from running unwanted software
         | (including DLLs and scripts).
         | 
         | AppLocker is included with all editions of Windows except
         | Windows 10 version 1809 or earlier.
         | 
         | However, AppLocker requires Local Security Policy, which isn't
         | available in Home edition of Windows, but it can be installed
         | easily for free.
         | 
         | https://www.thewindowsclub.com/local-security-policy-missing...
         | 
         | Here's how to use AppLocker to block an unwanted app:
         | 
         | https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/124008-use-applocker-all...
        
       | CMay wrote:
       | I can sympathize a little with Microsoft here. MS got totally
       | angry and fed up with what was happening. I'm not sure how many
       | people really understand how bad ransomware was getting.
       | Microsoft just finally said enough is enough and started
       | implementing counter-measures. Being more forceful about getting
       | people to backup their files is one of them.
       | 
       | Yes, it's annoying, and many might say what's the big deal?
       | People's harddrives used to die all the time and they would still
       | lose data. Why suddenly because it's ransomware, is it a bigger
       | deal? I think it just adds a moral dimension to it that wasn't as
       | acute before.
       | 
       | MS took the risk to be a little bit of an asshole as a way to
       | counter even bigger assholes.
       | 
       | That's only really acceptable if they can hold up their end of
       | the deal and maintain absolute privacy and security for that data
       | without trying to analyze it and apply Minority Report pre-crime
       | to everything.
        
         | potwinkle wrote:
         | You're anthropomorphizing the lawnmower. Microsoft didn't do
         | this to help or hurt users or ransomware. There's no deeper
         | meaning behind the action past improving business metrics in
         | order to meet goals and please management and shareholders.
         | They're not thinking about good or evil when implementing this,
         | even if the PR firms they hire might make it look that way.
        
       | nikanj wrote:
       | But maybe in a week you will change your mind. Better ask you
       | again in 7 days!
        
       | narag wrote:
       | So you can imagine my incredulity when a few days ago I received
       | one email message telling me that if I don't take action
       | urgently, my One Drive account is going to be deleted, maybe even
       | my files in the cloud.
        
       | barbs wrote:
       | I've been running mostly Linux (with some macOS) as a daily
       | driver for the past 15 years and have seen more and more articles
       | like this pop up on HN over time. I've felt for a while that
       | Linux is more user-centric, but it seems like Windows 11 is a
       | whole other level of user-hostile, to the point where even
       | average users seem to be catching on. My own father managed to
       | set up Linux on his computer without any prompting or help, and I
       | didn't even suggest it to him. It's a dual-boot setup, but he
       | boots into linux nearly every time and prefers it. It's starting
       | to feel like a turning point.
       | 
       | I'm wondering if there's a market out there for helping regular
       | computer users switch to linux?
        
         | Telaneo wrote:
         | > I'm wondering if there's a market out there for helping
         | regular computer users switch to linux?
         | 
         | I'm more feeling like average users are just jumping straight
         | to a phone (or maybe a tablet) as their main computing
         | experience, and their PC are either pushed out of their life
         | completely, as their other devices can do its job while being
         | less hostile, or their PC is reduced to doing only the tasks
         | which are either impossible or very-very inconvenient on a
         | phone or tablet (PC games, long-form writing, content creation,
         | Excel, et cetera).
         | 
         | Linux has some of these remaining niches nailed down pretty
         | well, but still not well enough that the choice is obvious
         | (Proton is really good, but kernel-anti-cheat is still a thing.
         | Libreoffice is good for simple writing, but not for the Office
         | power-user), and even then, this is really just the crumbs that
         | are left after most users just exit the PC market as a whole,
         | since they figured out the don't need one in the first place
         | any more.
        
       | Lapsa wrote:
       | perhaps you want to turn on Windows Backup with One Drive and a
       | Copilot? have you made Edge your default browser yet?
        
       | quacked wrote:
       | I deeply hate Microsoft, and most modern commercial software
       | design, but OneDrive has consistently been the best app I've ever
       | used for large file storage. Can anyone explain why they hate it
       | so much? I have near instantaneous access to my documents on my
       | computer and phone. I've been considering a move to Mint, but I
       | like OneDrive so much I'm not sure that I want to lose it.
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | when you lose onedrive, what else do you lose?
         | 
         | All Your Files Data and Media!
         | 
         | if you want to use onedrive ok thats a choice, if its
         | impossible to store locally, and you have the sword of
         | deletecles hanging over your head, thats not a choice, thats a
         | consequence.
        
         | ptx wrote:
         | The web version is awful, absurdly cumbersome to navigate,
         | difficult to search, confusingly structured, slow and just
         | generally terrible.
         | 
         | The native version was forced onto people's Windows machines
         | and automatically configured to sync people's local desktop and
         | documents to Microsoft's servers without explicit consent, so
         | some of the hate directed towards Onedrive might be an
         | expressions of hate of Microsoft's abusive and deceptive
         | behavior. But even if the Onedrive app itself is amazing (I
         | don't know if it is), installing anything from such an
         | untrustworthy company seems like a bad idea.
        
       | hamdouni wrote:
       | I'm fine with Tux, thank you.
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Can you say you disagree to the TOS?
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | @Everyone. If you must use Windows, use Windows 10 LTSC.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | Does big tech understand consent?
       | 
       | [ ] Yes
       | 
       | [ ] Maybe later
        
         | dare944 wrote:
         | Does big tech _undermine_ consent?
         | 
         | [ ] Yes
         | 
         | [ ] Maybe later
        
       | al_borland wrote:
       | Where I work we start using OneDrive for backup, even on macOS.
       | It hijacks your Documents folders, as well as a few others. I
       | suspect most people don't even realize they're using OneDrive.
       | 
       | I've had to tell dozens of people to move their git repos to
       | folders that aren't managed by OneDrive. I've seen where someone
       | will change branches and OneDrive will start pulling files back
       | down from the old branch. It's quite the mess.
        
       | WhyNotHugo wrote:
       | Consent is considered freely given if someone has a choice to say
       | "yes" or "no", without any additional consequence.
       | 
       | The choice to say only "yes" or "ask me again later" is closer to
       | what a stalker or a psychopath offers.
        
       | ptx wrote:
       | If you confine Windows to a VM without Internet access it won't
       | be able to exfiltrate your data or install unexpected new
       | features. I find this to be a much better user experience.
        
       | bn-l wrote:
       | Do they train their models on what's uploaded to onedrive?
        
       | npteljes wrote:
       | These dark patterns are the zeitgeist really, for many years now.
       | And they work very well, because of the combinations of vendor
       | lock-in, product bundling, and companies getting better and
       | better at PR.
       | 
       | Usually there is an easy workaround. For example with One Drive
       | shenanigans, you just need to save the files outside of
       | Documents, Pictures etc, and that's it. I got fed up many years
       | ago and moved to Linux, because I like my fights with Linux
       | better. With Microsoft (and most other corporations), it's their
       | way, or the highway. And it always have been.
        
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