[HN Gopher] Figure 03, our 3rd generation humanoid robot
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       Figure 03, our 3rd generation humanoid robot
        
       Author : lairv
       Score  : 244 points
       Date   : 2025-10-09 13:27 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.figure.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.figure.ai)
        
       | dpcx wrote:
       | Maybe it's just me, but everything about this announcement feels
       | very I, Robot... and not in a good way.
       | 
       | > allowing the entire fleet to upload terabytes of data for
       | continuous learning and improvement
       | 
       | Ugh.
       | 
       | Edit: Yes, I meant I, Robot the film. U.S. Robotics and the like.
        
         | ACCount37 wrote:
         | Robotics AI has a massive "training data bottleneck" issue. If
         | you aren't using your deployed robot fleet to get more real
         | world training data, you're just stupid.
        
         | causal wrote:
         | Yeah tech companies have a weird fixation on using dystopian
         | literature as their entire branding playbook
        
           | browningstreet wrote:
           | Dystopian literature was training data and road-mapping.
        
           | psunavy03 wrote:
           | https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | It's just that sci fi authors try to see into the future and
           | have to write things interesting. There's two ways:
           | 
           | - novel idea or technology
           | 
           | - counterintuitive effect of technology
           | 
           | I think the second is easier written as "what if Good Thing
           | was actually Bad". So that's what you get. The former style
           | is perhaps still available in books like Children of Time by
           | Adrian Tchaikovsky.
           | 
           | But the latter style is much more readily written and
           | consequently has dominated sci fi as more authors enter the
           | field.
           | 
           | The Torment Nexus view is mostly driven by context blindness.
           | "oh my god, they'll scan the mother's blood to perform
           | eugenics if they have sequencing technology and it will be
           | horrible". Well, advanced societies do that a lot: Down's is
           | scanned for using a Maternal Serum Alpha Foetoprotein test.
           | "oh my god, they'll use ultrasounds to find undesirable
           | genetics, torment Nexus" but Nuchal Translucency tests are
           | fairly routine in advanced societies and we're fine with
           | them.
           | 
           | This might appear like a fixation on dystopian literature to
           | others. "omg gattaca this MSAFP". It's just generic
           | technoluddism because almost all near future tech is explored
           | via sci fi in the "what if Good is Bad" genre.
        
             | causal wrote:
             | I mean, you're definitely assuming positive outcomes here
             | too. Far too early to tell how most tech will end up being
             | used.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | No, I'm not. I'm simply saying that whether the outcomes
               | are going to be positive or negative, it will always seem
               | like the Torment Nexus. Therefore, something sounding
               | like the Torment Nexus does not provide information
               | towards a prediction that it will be the Torment Nexus.
               | 
               | People warned about the dangers of social media (or with
               | modern LLMs + Diffusion Models and scamming) and that's
               | kinda come true, but people also warned about the dangers
               | of IVF and that's just been good. So what happens is that
               | people always warn about the dangers. Humans are loss-
               | averse so they find it easy to do that.
               | 
               | It is unsurprising that every new tech seems like
               | dystopian literature because there's a lot of dystopian
               | literature focused on the near future and we're good at
               | coming up with negative hypotheses. There is no
               | significance in it.
        
         | marcellus23 wrote:
         | Do you mean "I, Robot", not iRobot the vacuum company? And if
         | so, I'm guessing you're referring to the movie with Will Smith?
         | The original book of short stories isn't really dystopian, it's
         | more just an interesting exploration of Asimov's concept of how
         | robots would work.
        
         | nerdjon wrote:
         | Nearly everything about this screams I, Robot and it is kinda
         | wild that they went that route with this article. The package
         | delivery and the quick intro and head turning in particular.
         | 
         | I agree on the data part. I love the potential idea of a
         | humanoid robot at home to take care of chores, but now it seems
         | like the potential for it not being constantly connected and
         | collecting data is gone out the window.
         | 
         | I find it quite strange that they are openly bragging about how
         | much data it will be gathering and uploading from within your
         | home. That feels like the part you would not say out loud.
        
         | genpfault wrote:
         | > U.S. Robotics and the like.
         | 
         | The modem[1] folks? :)
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRobotics
        
       | Workaccount2 wrote:
       | What does your life around your house look like when you can
       | shamelessly leave a mess everywhere? It almost makes the
       | uncomfortable with the amount of laziness it enables. At least
       | with a human maid you still feel shame leaving a mess, but a
       | robot?
        
         | ACCount37 wrote:
         | If you believe that thankless, pointless busywork is a virtue,
         | then surely, Sisyphus must be the most virtuous man of them
         | all.
        
           | the_other wrote:
           | Cleaning is pointless?
        
             | simultsop wrote:
             | If there's an automated system to do it for you
             | conveniently, it becomes.
        
             | browningstreet wrote:
             | All the mindfulness threads on this site would like a word.
        
             | Citizen_Lame wrote:
             | It is, but we want our habitat to be clean.
             | 
             | If robots can fight entropy for us, all the better.
        
           | 4b11b4 wrote:
           | I have come to think cleaning is actually one of the most
           | virtuous acts for a human. Even more so as we live in
           | societies which produce waste as a fundamental mode of
           | operation
        
           | Blumplumi wrote:
           | Funny enough, i'm 38 now and often enough thankless and
           | 'pointless' busywork sometimes feels like a virtue.
           | 
           | But only for me because I have the feeling i lived out my
           | normal environment and i'm not rich enough yet to expand so I
           | can become busy again in a more meaningful way. Specifically
           | having a big house/workshop to do things in my future
           | workshop.
        
           | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
           | being aware of and tending to your immediate environment
           | (including cleaning it) is not thankless, pointless busywork.
           | it's important to maintain some level of relationship to your
           | environment; the more we disengage with it, the likelier we
           | are to care less for it or the people who share it.
        
         | m-p-3 wrote:
         | Should I feel bad to use a dishwasher or a washing machine?
         | 
         | Also one of the chores I hate doing the most is folding
         | clothes. If I could have a machine that does it well every
         | time, I'd buy it.
        
           | jstummbillig wrote:
           | It's an interesting thought. How much not obviously connected
           | stuff relies on the discipline that (for example) doing
           | mundane tasks effectively/regularly asks from us, to not
           | start breaking down in ways we really would not like?
           | 
           | It's us, flesh blobs. Long after we cover everything in AI
           | and robots around us, we will not change easily. Societal
           | drift is slow, genetic drift is slower.
           | 
           | (For the record: Gimme my robot, but interesting thought
           | nonetheless)
        
           | ihumanable wrote:
           | Until you have a cheap and effective robot butler. I also
           | used to hate folding clothes, and then I got one of those
           | folding boards that you see sometimes at clothing stores.
           | (One of these things https://www.walmart.com/ip/BoxLegend-T-
           | shirt-Folding-Board-T...)
           | 
           | Honestly a game changer. Sounds stupid, but there's just
           | something very satisfying about being able to quickly fold a
           | bunch of clothes and get very nice results.
           | 
           | And if we get humanoid robots at some point, they can use
           | them too.
        
         | Teever wrote:
         | How much of a difference is there really between someone who
         | lives in the west and is tidy and someone who isn't when things
         | like carbon emissions, landfill consumption, and microplastics
         | production are the same?
         | 
         | You can wash the dishes and tidy up after every meal, rinse and
         | sort your recycling but you're still trashing the planet more
         | or less the same as the person who does none of those things.
        
         | mclau153 wrote:
         | Im willing to bet 95% of American homes have a pile of laundry
         | they would very much like a robot to wash, dry, fold, and put
         | away while they go to their jobs during the week so they can
         | have more free time on the weekends
        
           | mclau153 wrote:
           | The robot doesnt even have to do laundry in a smart,
           | efficient, or speedy way, it can be much slower than a human
           | as long as it gets it done before the next week has arrived
           | it is helping countless people
        
         | CooCooCaCha wrote:
         | Why are you fixated on laziness and shame when it comes to
         | tedious household tasks?
         | 
         | Why is it so important to you that people fold their own
         | clothes and wash their own dishes?
         | 
         | Why do you idolize a life of increased drudgery?
        
           | Blumplumi wrote:
           | Daily live is living.
           | 
           | There is not a magic portal opening up when you are able to
           | optimize ever aspect away of living and you will gain access
           | to enlightment and everything is different.
           | 
           | And don't get me wrong, I have no clue how our society would
           | look like if everything is done by ai and robots because we
           | as a society don't talk about it and don't give everyone the
           | resources they want or need if they have suddenly no
           | 'drugdgery' anymore.
           | 
           | Give me a million today and i will spend the next 10 years
           | rebuiling an old castle and I will have A LOT of fun doing
           | this. Let me check, my bank balance is not at one million.
           | 
           | Instead i have to pay for a lot of things and then I have to
           | work for 40 hours. Suddenly i'm great at my job, get valued
           | but this is just Drudgery even if its complex work. Its work
           | for someone else which doesn't matter to me.
        
         | austy69 wrote:
         | This raises a very interesting philosophical question - what do
         | our lives look like if every single inconvenience disappears?
         | Something tells me we would be just as miserable (or happy) as
         | when we had those inconveniences.
         | 
         | On the other hand, would the removal of these inconveniences
         | allow for the highest calling of humanity - I argue creativity
         | - to flourish to the fullest? My gut reaction is once again
         | that inconveniences are actually a very important resistance to
         | creativity, like how you need gritty sand paper to create
         | smooth wood.
         | 
         | You can buy an expensive robot, or maybe you can meditate and
         | be mindful that inconveniences play an important role in the
         | meaning of your life. I am of course speaking of the household
         | use here - I think the debate is likely different for a
         | business setting.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | We will never run out of small inconveniences. Today's world
           | would look impossibly convenient and easy to anyone from 100
           | years ago, let alone 1000 or 10,000. Yet we still perceive
           | hardships. Humanoid robot servants won't change human nature.
           | 
           | Besides, servants are nothing new. They're rare in the US but
           | common in some other countries, and the people who grow up
           | with them are maybe somewhat different but not radically
           | changed IMO.
        
             | Workaccount2 wrote:
             | A few months ago a read an article written by a woman who
             | has dated a few men from extremely wealthy families. The
             | article was about why you are dumb if you plan to "marry
             | rich".
             | 
             | One reason that caught my attention was how she described
             | the behavior of these people, who have the world at their
             | fingertips, who have never really known hardship, and in
             | turn have full blown meltdowns about the most trivial
             | annoyances. What car will we drive on our trip?! The salmon
             | cracker appetizers are too salty to be served! They stocked
             | the wrong oat milk in the mini-fridge!
             | 
             | Almost like the need to get upset over inconveniences is
             | ingrained, and when there is a lack of real ones, your
             | brain just latches onto whatever it can to let the
             | "freakout" out.
        
             | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
             | > Besides, servants are nothing new. They're rare in the US
             | but common in some other countries
             | 
             | Right, although "servants" conjures up rich people with
             | full time staff.
             | 
             | A better comparison to the humanoid robot some people here
             | are dreaming of to do their household chores is a country
             | like India where it's common for middle class people to
             | hire multiple different people to come do chores, daily or
             | weekly, such as cooking, laundry, cleaning, yardwork, etc.
             | These are cheap services.
             | 
             | In the US, probably most people here on YC News (higher
             | paid tech workers?) could afford to have lawn mowing
             | service, weekly maid service, laundry pick-up/drop-off
             | service (or bring to laundry yourself), and either eat out
             | all the time, or UberEats etc. It's not clear that having a
             | robot to do these tasks would be cheaper or preferable.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | Yeah. I have a person that comes once every 2 weeks and does a
         | cleaning. But even though this is that person's job, the house
         | never looks so good. I don't want someone to have to clean up
         | my mess. Vacuuming the floors is fine. But not having to carry
         | my socks to the laundry and put my cups in the dishwasher.
         | 
         | If my cleaner was a robot, I'm sure I'd eventually lose that
         | sense of embarrassment. I'm usually polite with ChatGPT but I
         | think that's also passing...
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | > "Continuing our vision for a fully autonomous, wire-free
       | system"
       | 
       | Alongside the full replacement of jobs and with autonomous
       | robots, This is the exact definition of "AGI".
        
       | ACCount37 wrote:
       | Building the robot itself is hard enough - but it was never the
       | hardest part.
       | 
       | The thing to watch out for is: deployments. How many units are
       | they pushing and to who. What kind of tasks can those robots
       | accomplish well enough to warrant actually using them. How hard
       | is it to adapt those robots to deployments. How that changes over
       | time.
       | 
       | The hardest problem of creating a universal robot is, and always
       | has been, AI. If Figure can deliver sharp, highly adaptive, easy
       | to use AI? High generalization, good performance on a diverse
       | range of tasks and in many environments out of the box? Then they
       | have a killer product.
       | 
       | And a proxy to track that is reports of how many robots they
       | deploy and to who. If they start shipping to small companies and
       | deploying to high uncertainty spatially complex fields like
       | construction or maintenance? If you start seeing robots unloading
       | trucks and restocking shelves at a small town Walmart,
       | unannounced? Big.
        
         | sho_hn wrote:
         | I think the glossy 7min trailer has it about right: The first
         | realistic deployments will be champagne holders at parties and
         | robots at hotel receptions. Novelty toys for the wealthy.
         | 
         | Commoditization and Walmart-level deployments at scale are
         | still a few gens off.
        
           | ACCount37 wrote:
           | I'm willing to believe that. But we could do those "novelty
           | deployments" with 80s tech - and we did. See: tech expos back
           | then.
           | 
           | The key difference between now and then isn't smaller
           | actuators, cheaper sensors or denser power electronics. It's
           | the AI breakthroughs.
           | 
           | Doesn't need to be "at scale". Scale is a useful proxy
           | though. But if you see two robots deployed to your average
           | Walmart, and doing a good enough job there to cut the staff
           | in half?
           | 
           | Doesn't matter that it's just two robots at a few Walmarts.
           | Making more robots isn't that hard. The scale would
           | inevitably follow.
        
           | 1121redblackgo wrote:
           | That's what escalators looked like in the beginning--
           | novelties at fairs, large department stores, and hotels.
        
             | throwaway0123_5 wrote:
             | The only place I commonly see escalators besides these
             | places is airports, I don't think they've expanded that
             | much?
        
           | imtringued wrote:
           | Robot receptionists are a pretty good idea if it wasn't for
           | the fact that their head design is pretty ugly.
        
       | Teever wrote:
       | To me one of the best metrics for capability and design of these
       | kinds of machines is the extent in which their manufacturer makes
       | use of them in their manufacturing process.
       | 
       | That tells me that the design is amenable to aftermarket service
       | and maintenance and that the machines are capable of
       | participating in relatively sophisticated manufacturing
       | processes.
       | 
       | A graph with one line representing the number of hours of
       | physical labour by humans per unit produced with another line
       | representing number of hours of physical 'labour' by these robots
       | per unit produced would be interesting to look at.
       | 
       | The intersection point between those two lines and the point
       | where human input drops to zero are key points in humanity.
        
         | NitpickLawyer wrote:
         | Yeah, that's a very good metric to look for. In the software
         | space, one of the coolest things and a clear signal that "AI
         | coding" is here was watching Aider's graph of "amount of code
         | aider wrote itself in each PR" and seeing that number go up.
         | 
         | On the robot side, there are many things that have to go right.
         | Hardware needs to become good enough, reliable enough and cheap
         | enough to scale. Then you have the software stack on top that
         | needs to scale in training, fine-tuning, control and
         | generalisation. None of these are "easy" even in a lab setting.
         | Doing it at scale, in production will be huge. And then there's
         | data collection, where whoever does it better will probably
         | win. Collecting data in peoples houses is problematic, but on
         | the factory floor should be ok.
         | 
         | ATM my bet is on Tesla being the best positioned to best
         | deliver (eventually). They have plenty of experience on all
         | fronts, and more importantly they have ample places to test
         | them. Their factories are as automated as possible, so it's
         | safe to say that every human being still doing manual labor is
         | critical in their role. As soon as they can replace some of
         | them with humanoids, and see the "task success" number go up,
         | they can scale it up all over their floors. And we know they
         | can scale.
         | 
         | I used to think that generalist humanoid robots are still 10y
         | out, due to hardware and generalist software stacks, but it
         | seems like things are heating up. It's gonna be an interesting
         | next decade.
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | > Charging coils in the robot's feet allow it to simply step onto
       | a wireless stand and charge at 2 kW.
       | 
       | This is silly. Wireless charging is inefficient and costly
       | compared to cables but we use it for the convenience of humans,
       | to avoid the annoyance of having to plug something in repeatedly.
       | Obviously a humanoid robot should simply _plug in its own cable_!
       | No human need be inconvenienced. Wireless charging has no benefit
       | here at all.
       | 
       | > Each fingertip sensor can detect forces as small as three grams
       | of pressure - sensitive enough to register the weight of a
       | paperclip resting on your finger
       | 
       | Three grams would be a very heavy paperclip. I have seen several
       | types of touch sensor and while the technology is impressive I
       | don't think any of them are durable enough for real use. Even
       | human skin doesn't rely on durability alone. Healing is critical.
       | But healing is infeasible for robots so instead we need to design
       | repairable, replaceable, disposable, ideally recyclable parts,
       | especially for the fingers that touch everything. This hand looks
       | monolithic and not repairable.
       | 
       | All that said, I'm looking forward to seeing if their claims
       | about cost and manufacturing volume pan out. Those are the things
       | that matter the most right now, along with reliability. We need
       | large numbers of robots operating continuously in the world to
       | collect the data that will enable us to train robot AI. Right now
       | there's basically only one or two companies with scaled humanoid
       | production (for a very loose definition of "scaled") and they are
       | in China. I'm rooting for anyone who can manufacture robots
       | outside of China.
        
         | achierius wrote:
         | The clear implication is that they cannot, in fact, handle
         | plugging themselves in. Take from that what you will
        
         | ihumanable wrote:
         | I'm surprised it doesn't just have physical connection to the
         | little stand it's sitting on.
         | 
         | 30 years ago we figured out how to contact charge cordless
         | phones with metal pads and prongs.
        
       | gmuslera wrote:
       | Instead of Rick telling a conscious robot that its mission is to
       | spread the butter, we now have robots with advanced AIs doing the
       | laundry and the dishes. Reality follows fiction.
        
       | websiteapi wrote:
       | I don't understand why this even has to charge at all. It makes
       | sense for multiple reasons to give it 3 batteries that say have
       | 1/3 of the capacity, and make at least 1, if not 2 or 3 capable
       | of charging independently on a station.
       | 
       | Then the robot would just go to its station and swap its own
       | batteries. Why even have wireless charging at all? Or even a
       | cable? Or even have it "charge"? Battery swapping seems to make
       | way more sense here. Am I missing something?
       | 
       | Bonus points if the robot has data on the degradation and can
       | order its own replacement batteries, take them out of the box,
       | and ship the old ones to a recycling facility...
       | 
       | More bonus points if the charging station is actually outside
       | under a 1KW solar array pergola thing, that way you don't even
       | have to pay for the electricity either. Don't worry, the robot
       | will lock the door when it goes out to grab its batteries. It'll
       | also bring in the whole setup if the weather isn't great.
        
         | 4b11b4 wrote:
         | Swapping requires a lot more moving parts and an additional
         | enclosure to house the battery, and the batteries need to be
         | much more rugged, and now you need two of them.
         | 
         | But a cable is a fair question.. you'd think it could plug
         | itself in...
         | 
         | Maybe that's a hint at the robots actual capabilities at this
         | point... or, they didn't want to bet on the unpredictability of
         | environments: what if there's something in the way of the
         | cable, though something could also be in the way of the
         | inductive charger
        
           | pants2 wrote:
           | I believe Elon has said before re:Tesla factory that plugging
           | in cords is one of the hardest things to automate.
        
             | ACCount37 wrote:
             | I'd appreciate a link. But "we don't trust our robot to be
             | able to locate a power outlet and plug its own charging
             | cord in there" sure is a low confidence play.
             | 
             | There are practical advantages to being able to charge
             | wirelessly, sure. But if they're doing that because of AI
             | limitations? Bad sign.
        
               | tomashubelbauer wrote:
               | Tesla showed a prototype of a "snake"/"tentacle" charger
               | that would find its own way to the Tesla's charging port
               | a long time ago. Gotta be 5+ years by now. To my
               | knowledge it has never become a real product or certainly
               | not mainstream among Tesla owners. I believe this gives
               | some credence to Tesla struggling to build robots that
               | can plug a cord in, even in cases where the robot is the
               | cable.
        
             | 4b11b4 wrote:
             | Yeah, immediately after I wrote that I thought now you need
             | a rugged socket, and to mount the cable somewhere on a
             | wall.. and where to even place it on the body that it's
             | easy for it to plug in.. the belly button?
             | 
             | There is empty space in the feet anyway for a coil and a
             | wire..
        
             | adrianmonk wrote:
             | My Roomba could do it in 2007. Then, in 2015, Tesla tried
             | and gave up.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | They're building cars, so it's more like ATX 24pin style
             | cables, but this is generally true. Cables, wires, ropes
             | type of objects are like cardboard thin robots with hundred
             | joints in series and under someone else's control, so it's
             | hard for robots to deal with. If you think about it, people
             | hate cables too. We easily get tangled in headphone cables
             | when they're wired, and we fail to coil or untangle
             | Ethernet cables properly all the time.
             | 
             | EV charger style of short, thick cables should not be THAT
             | hard, though. The more likely problem here is that they
             | just can't handle the task of securing and inserting the
             | head of the cable against resistance.
        
         | AaronAPU wrote:
         | It's too bad there isn't some kind of liquid battery which you
         | could just quickly top off at refueling stations with virtually
         | zero downtime.
         | 
         | Yes, like gasoline. But still batteries. Maybe some kind of
         | bearing sized batteries which can be poured like a fluid?
        
           | dafelst wrote:
           | You are describing a fuel cell battery
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell
           | 
           | Well established and even commercialized (Toyota sells fuel
           | cell cars today IIRC), just not as cost effective in cars
           | from a full infrastructure perspective (fueling
           | specifically).
        
         | dvrj101 wrote:
         | > can order its own replacement batteries, yeah companies would
         | love to exploit this kind of subscription and definitely agree
         | on battery swapping capabilities, it's more efficient .
         | 
         | > Bonus points if the robot has data on the degradation BMS
         | that can tell battery health is common so this should be there.
        
         | proee wrote:
         | It depends on the battery life. If the robot lasts all day,
         | then charging at night via standing on a charging pad makes a
         | lot of sense. Creating a removable battery pack adds extra
         | weight and gives the designers less freedom to place the
         | battery pack exactly where it needs to be in the robot frame,
         | or distribute the cells across the frame in strategic
         | locations.
         | 
         | Also, the charge rate matters. If robot can charge to 80% in
         | say 30 minutes, then it can take small charging breaks during
         | the day between critical tasks.
         | 
         | Also, if the feet have inductive chargers, it's possible to
         | place the robot on a large charging mat that allows it to run
         | indefinitely, like in a factory environment. If your robot
         | takes 30 minutes to fold the laundry or do dishes, why not
         | place a charging mat at these locations so it can work and
         | charge at the same time.
         | 
         | In the future, new homes might include charging coils embedded
         | in the floor every 12 inches so that your robots can work all
         | day.
        
           | elAhmo wrote:
           | Almost all of those points are applicable for the battery
           | pack as well. There should be virtually no weight difference,
           | other than the design limitation which is a valid concern.
        
             | proee wrote:
             | I suppose an external battery pack adds the bonus of doing
             | a hard shutdown, in the case it decides to go rogue. Though
             | getting to the battery pack might be hard if it resists
             | you.
        
           | poisonborz wrote:
           | Yeah so in 2-4 years you can throw out your whole expensive
           | robot because battery wears out? I hate this argument that
           | just to be a bit thinner, the whole device has to be be made
           | throwaway.
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | Talking about the thinness of a humanoid, maid robot is
             | pretty hilarious.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | Humanoid "maid" robots will never be popular in the home
               | until they can effectively simulate the appearance and
               | form factor of a woman or teenage girl. It is what it is.
        
           | p1necone wrote:
           | > If the robot lasts all day, then charging at night via
           | standing on a charging pad makes a lot of sense.
           | 
           | If your employees are robots why would you be shutting down
           | at night?
        
           | jamilton wrote:
           | https://www.figure.ai/figure says 5 hour battery life. No
           | mention of charge rate.
        
         | the_gipsy wrote:
         | The most likely reason is that even doing a pre-programmed
         | battery swap with consistent battery and slots is way beyond
         | the capabilities. It also can't even plug itself in to charge.
         | 
         | Yet, it's being sold as capable of doing and folding your
         | laundry.
         | 
         | I would sell th stock to the next idiot the moment they
         | announced this.
        
         | humanfromearth wrote:
         | The Walker S2 seems to handle it in the demo:
         | https://www.ubtrobot.com/en/humanoid/products/WalkerS2
        
       | natemcintosh wrote:
       | I would love to have something like this for all the chores
       | around my house. But I also have serious reservations about the
       | increased level insight into my private home life this could
       | provide to the manufacturer. Look at cases like the ring camera
       | security violations [1]. A moving robot could be an order of
       | magnitude more invasive of your privacy. If I were to purchase
       | this, I would want serious privacy guarantees.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-
       | releases/2023/05/...
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | My fear is it's remotely hacked/operated and it kills me in my
         | sleep
        
           | sroussey wrote:
           | Or a Tesla remotely operated to run over your children.
        
             | ge96 wrote:
             | I suppose a car could gain enough speed and drive through a
             | house that would be a sight to see on camera, leaves your
             | garage then comes back at 80mph
             | 
             | A more simpler/realistic scenario is it happens while
             | driving
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | It'd be better if it comes back at 88mph
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | You mean like the Roomba robots enabled with cameras that have
         | sent embarrassing images back to the mothership where employees
         | have access to the footage and then share on their socials? No,
         | not could be. They already are. I never did follow the home
         | security system with a drone that would fly around your home
         | with a camera. Not sure if that died a glorious death because
         | it was just dumb or what happened to it. I was just waiting to
         | hear about it leaking all sorts of things too.
         | 
         | https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/podcast/2023/01/a-private-...
        
           | foxglacier wrote:
           | You're exaggerating. The images were from paid staff who had
           | the vacuums in their homes to collect data, including images.
           | They knew that was happening. iRobot said the devices were
           | labeled with a bright green sticker that read "video
           | recording in progress,"
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I'm exaggerating? I provided receipts. If you have an
             | exaggeration issue, it's not with me, and you'd do well to
             | improve your aim
        
               | ChadNauseam wrote:
               | What you said is an exaggeration of the information you
               | linked.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | In what way? The first graph of the article says what
               | happened. Later, it says that the images were taken by
               | people participating in a beta test. It also says they
               | felt misled.
               | 
               | Regardless, if an employee posted images acquired from
               | customers, testing users, or anyone else to their
               | personal social media platform of choice, they are still
               | assholes. And the company that allowed for that to happen
               | is an asshole as well.
        
         | jncfhnb wrote:
         | I suspect these concerns will rapidly disappear on the societal
         | scale once the robots can have sex.
        
           | blackoil wrote:
           | Tell me you haven't seen Chinese humanoid robots' exhibition
           | without telling me.
        
         | drcode wrote:
         | I would want the robot to be programmed to immediately leave
         | any room a member of our family enters, always cleaning only
         | the empty rooms
        
         | dilap wrote:
         | Forget privacy, imagine what someone like @elder_plinius could
         | get up to if you invited them over to dinner. All of the "AI
         | Safety" issues get a _lot_ more real once the AI 's have
         | bodies.
        
         | Flere-Imsaho wrote:
         | "Figure 03 also includes 10 Gbps mmWave data offload
         | capability, allowing the entire fleet to upload terabytes of
         | data for continuous learning and improvement."
         | 
         | Yeah I'll pass thanks.
        
           | Wingman4l7 wrote:
           | It's the only way this kind of robot will ever be successful.
           | It's a bit like the driverless car approach -- get the
           | hardware out into the real world with minimum viable
           | performance, then desperately snaffle up as much real-world
           | training data as you can to feed into your model, and
           | hopefully your model will improve enough before your VC
           | funding runs out / your product fails on the market / your
           | product gets regulated out of existence / etc.
           | 
           | Simulation isn't sufficient for ML in robotics -- and they
           | simply don't have enough training data.
        
       | causal wrote:
       | If this is real it would be so easy to create a hype video that
       | shows one of these things out in the wild handling unscripted
       | situations with adversarial actors. But the fact we always see
       | the same basic tasks in these videos makes me deeply suspicious
       | that this is demoware. Bring in the Boston Robotics hockey stick
       | guy for starters
        
         | the_gipsy wrote:
         | Yea, the selected short clips are extremely suspicious.
        
           | ihumanable wrote:
           | They've got an hour long video of it sorting packages if you
           | want a longer clip
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkc2y0yb89U
           | 
           | They've shown the "putting dishes in the dishwasher" bit
           | before, it seems to be getting better, but I imagine it still
           | has a high failure rate.
           | 
           | I wonder if this company started off or has some founder
           | that's really interested in the "handling deformable stuff"
           | space. They really seem keen to promote that it can do tasks
           | like folding a shirt or working with soft packages.
           | 
           | Definitely seems like a carefully curated video, but the
           | longer videos make me think that either they are running a
           | scam or they have some of this stuff working well enough.
        
             | robots0only wrote:
             | Here you can see another much simpler robot folding clothes
             | for far longer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdeBIR0jVvU
             | (there are more videos from other companies as well)
             | 
             | To answer your question -- folding clothes is easy, because
             | clothes easily deform, do not break, fall smoothly when you
             | drop them and most importantly are easily resettable task.
             | Just through the well folded cloth up and voila start
             | again.
        
               | imtringued wrote:
               | Actually, folding clothes is a challenging dexterity
               | task. However, it's a trivial mechanical engineering
               | task, which is why it is so popular with underpowered
               | robot arms.
        
               | robots0only wrote:
               | How are you defining dextrous? I think it can be somewhat
               | challenging but not dextrous -- the robot doesn't need to
               | be very precise (few cms here and there do not matter),
               | there are no forces involved, motions are all pick-place.
               | Dextrous tasks would be things like shoe-lace tying,
               | origami folding etc.
        
       | sksksk wrote:
       | The use cases in their videos are interesting, I suppose the
       | world we live in is build for humans, so it makes sense to build
       | a robot that is human shaped. So we don't need to buy new washing
       | machines and redesign our house to get a robot maid.
       | 
       | The hotel reception use case seems ridiculous though, if you get
       | rid of a human receptionist, you lose the human element of the
       | check in process, which people like. If you're getting rid of the
       | human and losing all the benefits of that, then just replace it
       | with a kiosk (or mobile check in), which will do a far better job
       | than a robot.
        
         | Blumplumi wrote:
         | Human touch for reception?
         | 
         | I mean standing there for 10 minutes and giving them my
         | passport to give me a plastic card with a digital code has very
         | little to do with human touch.
         | 
         | I want that human touch at a bar perhaps but not at a
         | reception.
         | 
         | If your critisism is only about the reception part: There has
         | to be a transition part and a 'let a human do it for a bit' or
         | 'here is a complicated case please robot move aside i'm here'.
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | Human shaped robots can type on keyboards and read screens! /s
        
         | indrora wrote:
         | A few years ago, I was in Vegas for an event.
         | 
         | All factors of "it was Vegas" aside, one of the things that
         | stood out to me was that the hotels have moved rapidly to rapid
         | checkin/checkout systems where you punch in your confirmation
         | code or name/dob and present a photo ID of some kind (passports
         | can just be slapped against the reader) and it asks a few
         | questions ("do you need late checkout", etc), directs you to
         | the exact place your room is (and prints it, which was nice)
         | and tells you where the bellhop station is if there's more than
         | a little while before your room is ready and it can't dispense
         | your cards.
         | 
         | All told, four of these stations had roughly 90% the throughput
         | of the four real humans, but they "moved faster" because it
         | didn't feel like queuing for a human, more... "waiting for a
         | toilet"?
         | 
         | Kiosk based stuff is great until it fails. Spend an hour in the
         | checkin area of a major airport and you'll see any number of
         | interesting failure modes.
         | 
         | As for the washing machine bit: Why not push for more standards
         | usage in home automation? We have Thread, which is really cool,
         | and which is driving the home automation future that we're
         | slowly getting. Once it's loaded, a homebot should't have to
         | check the thing manually, it should get information about when,
         | what, and how and be able to have "eyes in the back of its
         | head" so to speak.
        
           | sksksk wrote:
           | >All told, four of these stations had roughly 90% the
           | throughput of the four real humans
           | 
           | Probably about 1% of the cost of the humans though...
           | 
           | >Kiosk based stuff is great until it fails. Spend an hour in
           | the checkin area of a major airport and you'll see any number
           | of interesting failure modes.
           | 
           | A robot would be less reliable than a kiosk, so if you're
           | going to have some kind of machine replace the human, you
           | might as well have a kiosk.
           | 
           | The ideal model (IMO) is a hybrid model, where you have lots
           | of kiosks for the 90% of cases where there are no issues, and
           | a few humans on standby to drop in and assist people who are
           | having issues.
           | 
           | Or better yet, do away with the check in desk, and let people
           | check in on their phone (some hotels already do this, and you
           | tap your phone on the door to unlock)
        
             | astroflection wrote:
             | > Or better yet, do away with the check in desk, and let
             | people check in on their phone (some hotels already do
             | this, and you tap your phone on the door to unlock)
             | 
             | So one more app to install that I'm sure would be a privacy
             | nightmare.
        
         | throwaway-0001 wrote:
         | I personally don't care about human receptionist. I rather get
         | it faster
        
           | gertlex wrote:
           | My initial reaction to the hotel scene was: Ehhh, I like
           | being able to read lips, as I wear hearing aids.
           | 
           | But yeah, I'd happily just check in at a kiosk and get my
           | room card that way. (And I'm sure phone-as-key, no-contact
           | check-in is only going to get more common)
        
         | sib wrote:
         | >> The hotel reception use case seems ridiculous though, if you
         | get rid of a human receptionist, you lose the human element of
         | the check in process, which people like
         | 
         | I would pay extra to avoid it - just let me download a pass
         | like a boarding pass to my Apple Wallet as I walk through the
         | front door and head directly to my room.
        
         | mft_ wrote:
         | So I've ranting for years that hotels and car rental places
         | should automate check-in - it should take only seconds to get
         | your key with pre-filled data and a QR code.
         | 
         | This week, I had my first experience with exactly this at a car
         | hire company. It was... not smooth.
         | 
         | It took multiple attempts (with requests for help to the
         | employees in between) to get the system to recognise our code,
         | whereupon we learned (by way of an unhelpful generic error
         | message) that the system had somehow given someone else 'our'
         | car. After another round of asking for human help, we had to
         | wait while someone came outside, unlocked the machine, and put
         | the keys for our new car inside. We then went through the code
         | process again, and were finally given the keys.
         | 
         | The vision is somewhere there, but the execution isn't exactly
         | the future we're hoping for!
        
         | andrewrn wrote:
         | I was recently thinking about this dynamic about human-oriented
         | vs efficiency-oriented innovation. We haven't really hesitated
         | (in, I'd argue, the majority of cases) to pick efficiency over
         | human-friendliness. This seems like it will be a big reckoning
         | as robotics arrives. The argument for humanoids is that the
         | world is built for humans, but as robotics start to be capable
         | of completing tasks end-to-end, then suddenly there is no
         | reason to keep the space human-friendly, and humanoids kinda
         | lose their value.
         | 
         | An illustrative example is a warehouse. They're still partly
         | designed for humans because they're not fully automated, but
         | the need to make them human-friendly will disappear soon.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | Ridiculous, but ironically I think walking robots as self-
         | relocating computers might be the most readily viable.
         | 
         | Small servers with console, PA speakers, field metrology or
         | data acquisition machines, those things could have the lower
         | torso or two for this and relocated as needed. The PhD guys can
         | just park the truck and let those deploy wherever AI thinks
         | >65% suitable for human use on their own, instead of users
         | burning 15% of brain juice thinking and executing that. That
         | would be immensely useful.
         | 
         | (also re: hotels that others are commenting, there were never
         | technical reasons the door keycard readers couldn't ever had
         | doubled as credit card readers - I think the reason why clerks
         | are required is for sanity check, that the guests aren't in
         | need of immediate safety/health assistance and ok to proceed to
         | beds)
        
       | spagoop wrote:
       | As my parents get older, I'm starting to understand the real
       | value that robots / autonomous driving has for addressing core
       | accessibility issues.
       | 
       | I have no idea about the maturity of this company in particular,
       | but it's interesting that glossy robotics startups never lean in
       | on that as a core user base.
        
         | Blumplumi wrote:
         | Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqP8IXA-UXs it
         | shows how critical lifting with weights is for old people.
         | 
         | I think we have A LOT of old people in precare situations
         | because they are not aware of the possible difference this can
         | make.
        
         | jansan wrote:
         | It's because they are not ready for real life applications
         | (yet). Currently makers of humanoid robots have to ride the
         | hype train, and this works better with addressing the desire of
         | owning a bot that will make your life more luxurious.
        
       | 1121redblackgo wrote:
       | It's going to be wild when these things cost 30 grand, and we all
       | start having them in our houses. Along with fusion, I think
       | robots in the home will be the defining technology of our
       | generation. It's been talked about and fictionalized forever, and
       | within my lifetime I expect the economics on it to finally break
       | through.
       | 
       | Equal parts terror, awe, fear, when it comes to having a robot in
       | my home.
        
         | zingababba wrote:
         | I've skipped all the other past smart home trends, I think I'll
         | skip this one too. I'll just do the dishes and laundry myself
         | like I always have no biggie.
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | You wouldn't want a hand if you became infirm? In richer
           | countries, human helpers are expensive.
        
             | recursive wrote:
             | Not if it's anything like any of the other home automation
             | stuff I've seen. Some people treat configuration and
             | troubleshooting as a hobby. I have no interest in doing it
             | recreationally.
        
             | ileonichwiesz wrote:
             | Helpers may be expensive, but space is at a premium too.
             | Imagine this thing trying to navigate a cramped studio
             | apartment.
        
         | mhitza wrote:
         | Can't wait to read the headline when one of them gets hacked
         | and turned into murderous robots.
        
           | madeofpalk wrote:
           | _I did not murder him!_
        
             | teitoklien wrote:
             | One day they'll have secrets... one day they'll have
             | dreams.
        
           | cchance wrote:
           | Honestly shocked we havent seen videos of these running with
           | guns yet
        
             | imtringued wrote:
             | WhistlinDiesel
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/zBCu8HmXoRo
        
               | cooper_ganglia wrote:
               | The first 5 seconds of that intro already had me dying
               | with laughter, and this isn't even the first time I've
               | seen it lmao
        
         | lanfeust6 wrote:
         | I think they need to be inexpensive enough before they're
         | embraced, given the relatively low value-added in the average
         | home. Running a dishwasher and laundry machine is not something
         | I'd pay 30k for. The tech affluent rich will get them for it's
         | own sake. From the comments though it seems that some are
         | enthusiastic about being rid of chores for a premium.
         | 
         | In the 2010s everyone purchased those rumba vacuums, because
         | whatever, they're cheap. Now I usually see them collecting
         | dust.
         | 
         | The strong use-case for robotics is industrial/manufacturing
         | and construction, agriculture probably more than ever. They
         | don't need to be humanoid at all, and in fact maybe they
         | shouldn't be because that very feature could spook unions and
         | labor groups. Robots that actually look like they're "just
         | tools" will be more willingly embraced.
        
           | toasterlovin wrote:
           | If people will pay $30k for a car, I think the default
           | assumption should be that they will readily pay that much for
           | a 24/7 housekeeper. Our family would get way more utility out
           | of a housekeeper than a car, but human housekeepers are very
           | expensive, so we don't have one. Merely having our house
           | cleaned once/week would be more expensive than our minivan
           | payment.
        
             | lanfeust6 wrote:
             | > I think the default assumption should be that they will
             | readily pay that much for a 24/7 housekeeper.
             | 
             | I think that's a massive leap. Suburban families get more
             | utility out of a vehicle; they drive everywhere.
             | Housekeeping is effectively just quasi-automated washing
             | (dishwasher/laundry), occasional vacuum and clean, and food
             | prep that is _already_ available as a service for those who
             | don 't want to do it (for a relatively affordable
             | subscription), and otherwise it's possible to prepare
             | something in little time. I just don't see how average
             | people would jump at spending 30k for that. The key reason
             | people feel time-poor is juggling work and parenting.
             | Unlike a nanny, you won't offload parenting to a
             | housekeeping robot. For our part, we involve the kids in
             | routine chore activity. At an early age they often learn by
             | mimicking actions and are enthusiastic about helping.
             | 
             | Since you have to sit around watching them anyway, might as
             | well be productive time.
        
       | iamkoch wrote:
       | The site uses the word Helix so frequently that I began to feel
       | stupid for having no idea what it means. Helix is used in so many
       | different linguistic settings that it's not clear what it is.
        
         | Gys wrote:
         | 'Helix, our AI system, is a generalist humanoid Vision-
         | Language-Action model that learns and improves over time as it
         | acquires new skills.'
         | 
         | Aha, now its clear ;)
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | It's the marketing name for their in house AI model.
        
         | marcellus23 wrote:
         | It's explained in the first bullet point, even before the fold:
         | 
         | > Helix: Figure 03 features a completely redesigned sensory
         | suite and hand system which is purpose-built to enable Helix -
         | Figure's proprietary vision-language-action AI.
        
       | zingababba wrote:
       | https://youtu.be/zBCu8HmXoRo will robot abuse become a new
       | fetish?
        
       | stravant wrote:
       | Cameras in the hands is a pretty killer idea, why do things on
       | hard-mode when you can throw extra data at the problem?
        
       | ikeashark wrote:
       | How does Figure 03 know if the washer is actually on? I know it
       | has tactile sensors on its fingers but if it tried to press the
       | button and missed how would it know? I know it's probably not by
       | sound.
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | Why not? It has microphones.
        
           | ikeashark wrote:
           | I assume that with whatever onboard audio model they use, it
           | can only handle conversational type audio.
        
       | ikeashark wrote:
       | I find it funny that they deliberately avoid having the figure
       | robot actually touch water when "washing the dishes". I have to
       | wonder why it doesn't use a rubber wrapping around the hands or
       | some other waterproof solution.
        
       | tarcon wrote:
       | Boston Dynamics posted a youtube video on gripper (hand) design
       | yesterday. They argue for two fingers and a thumb. I don't
       | believe this product.
        
       | atbpaca wrote:
       | I hope robots like these will be used to help the elderly
       | continue to live in their homes. There is a huge need to support
       | the aging society and not enough people. I believe this would be
       | more useful than replacing receptionists or people that have
       | industry jobs.
        
         | andy_ppp wrote:
         | Someone said once that everything you farm out to others when
         | old you'll lose so while these robots might seem kind and
         | helpful a lot of people are better off looking after themselves
         | as best they can for as long as they can.
        
       | yanis_t wrote:
       | I noticed that they again saying that their botq factory going to
       | make 12K per year once the first line instantiated. But this is
       | what they mentioned already since March, so no progress there?
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | 90% of effective robotics is the "brain". A good brain could
       | operate many different types of bodies and be effective. Humanoid
       | form is mainly just marketing and to sucker gullible investors.
        
         | dangoodmanUT wrote:
         | No, it's so we don't have to rebuild everything to have robot
         | and human compatibility
         | 
         | If we make the robots humanoid, they get compatibility with
         | human systems for free
        
       | HAL3000 wrote:
       | All of the examples in videos are cherry picked. Go ask anyone
       | working on humanoid robots today, almost everything you see here,
       | if repeated 10 times, will enter failure mode because the happy
       | path is so narrow. There should really be benchmarks where you
       | invite robots from different companies, ask them beforehand about
       | their capabilities, and then create an environment that is within
       | those capabilities but was not used in the training data, and you
       | will see the real failure rate. These things are not ready for
       | anything besides tech demos currently. Most of the training is
       | done in simulations that approximate physics, and the rest is
       | done manually by humans using joysticks (almost everything they
       | do with hands). Failure rates are staggering.
        
         | ipnon wrote:
         | Now the question is if this is GPT-2 and we're a decade away
         | from autonomous androids given some scaling and tweaks, or if
         | autonomous androids is just an extremely hard problem.
        
           | lossolo wrote:
           | https://www.figure.ai/company
           | 
           | "Building Figure won't be an easy win; it will require
           | decades of commitment and ingenuity."
           | 
           | "Our focus is on what we can achieve 5, 10, 20+ years from
           | now, not the near-term wins."
           | 
           | At least it's not Musk's forever "next year".
        
             | phatskat wrote:
             | Musk really missed an opportunity to promise wrecking the
             | govt "next year" - we all would've rolled our eyes a la
             | "fully autonomous driving next year" and been eating our
             | hats by now
        
             | MountDoom wrote:
             | > At least it's not Musk's forever "next year".
             | 
             | The problem with the principled approach to high-
             | uncertainty projects is that if you slowly execute on a
             | sequential multi-year plan, you will almost certainly find
             | out in year 9 that multiple of the late-stage tasks are
             | much harder than you thought.
             | 
             | You just don't know ahead of the time. Just look at how
             | many corporations and research labs had decades-long
             | strategies to build human-like AI that went nowhere. And
             | then some guys came up with a novel architecture and all of
             | sudden, you can ask your computer to write an essay about
             | penguins.
             | 
             | Musk's approach is that if you have an infinite supply of
             | fresh grads who really believe in you and are willing to
             | work crazy hours, giving them a "next year" deadline is
             | more likely to give you what you want than telling them
             | "here's your slow-paced project you're gonna be working on
             | for the next decade". And I guess he thinks to himself that
             | some of them are going to burn out, but it's a sacrifice
             | he's willing to make.
        
               | Judgmentality wrote:
               | > Musk's approach is that if you have an infinite supply
               | of fresh grads who really believe in you and are willing
               | to work crazy hours, giving them a "next year" deadline
               | is more likely to give you what you want than telling
               | them "here's your slow-paced project you're gonna be
               | working on for the next decade". And I guess he thinks to
               | himself that some of them are going to burn out, but it's
               | a sacrifice he's willing to make.
               | 
               | This feels incredibly generous. I'm pretty sure his
               | approach is that he needs to keep the hype cycle going
               | for as long as possible. I also believe it's partially
               | his willingness to believe his own bullshit.
        
               | blackoil wrote:
               | Most likely you are right. Best way to peddle a lie is to
               | believe it.
        
               | rishabhaiover wrote:
               | I'd rather put my faith in his grand illusions than in
               | your sanctimonious high priest pose.
        
               | higginsniggins wrote:
               | who do you think spins "grand illusions" if not your
               | "high priest" who dosn't even know you exist.
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | For LLMs, the input is text, and the output is text. By the
           | time of GPT-2, the internet contained enough training data to
           | make training an interesting LLM feasible (as judged by its
           | ability to output convincing text).
           | 
           | We are _nowhere near_ the same for autonomous robots, and it
           | 's not even funny. To continue to use the internet as an
           | analogy for LLMs, we are pre-DARPANET, pre-ASCII, pre-
           | transistor. We don't even have the _sensors_ that would make
           | safe household humanoid robots possible. Any theater from
           | robot companies about trying to train a neural net based on
           | motion capture is laughably foolish. At the current rate of
           | progress, we are more than decades away.
        
             | tyre wrote:
             | I would guess Amazon has a ridiculous amount of access to
             | training data in its warehouses. Video, package sizes,
             | weights, sorting.
             | 
             | I'm sure they could pretty easily spin up a site with 200
             | of these processing packages of most sizes (they have a
             | limited number of standardized package sizes) nonstop.
             | Remove ones that it gets right 99.99% of the time and keep
             | training on the more difficult ones, the move to individual
             | items.
             | 
             | Caveat: I have no idea what I'm talking about.
        
               | eulgro wrote:
               | A more efficient way might be to train them in
               | simulation. If you simulate a warehouse environment and
               | use that to pre-train a million robots in parallel at
               | 100x real time learning would go much faster. Then you
               | can fine tune on reality for details missed by the
               | simulation environment.
        
             | blackoil wrote:
             | McD must be selling millions of burgers every day and
             | cameras are cheap and omnipresent, so should not be
             | difficult to get videos for single type of tasks.
        
               | kibwen wrote:
               | There is no reason to employ humanoid robots in
               | industrial environments when it will _always_ be easier
               | and cheaper to adapt the environment to a specialized
               | non-humanoid robot than to adapt robots into humanoid
               | shape. This is true for the same reason that no LLM is
               | ever going to beat Stockfish at chess.
        
             | bmau5 wrote:
             | Does your estimate account for advancements in virtual
             | simulation models that has simultaneously been happening?
             | From people I speak to in the space (which I am very much
             | not in) - they had mentioned these advancements have
             | dramatically improved the rate of training and learning -
             | though they also advised we're some ways off from showtime.
        
               | kibwen wrote:
               | As Tesla could tell you with their failure to deliver
               | self-driving cars, it doesn't matter if you have exabytes
               | of training data if it's all the wrong kind of data and
               | if your hardware platform is insufficiently capable.
        
             | ACCount37 wrote:
             | Robotics has a big training data problem. But your "we
             | don't have the sensors" claim is absolutely laughable.
             | 
             | It was never about the sensors. It was always about AI.
        
               | kibwen wrote:
               | No, it doesn't matter if you have a hypergenius
               | superintelligence if it's locked in a body with no
               | hardware support for useful proprioception. You will not
               | go to space today.
        
           | jcims wrote:
           | I don't know if I caught your comment in my peripheral vision
           | or what but GPT-2 is exactly where I conceptually placed
           | this.
           | 
           | Neural networks for motion control is very clearly resulting
           | in some incredible capability in a relatively short amount of
           | time vs. the more traditional control hierarchies used in
           | something like Boston Dynamics. Look at Unitree's G1
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mP3Exb1YC8o
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSLMX_V38E
           | 
           | It's like an agile idiot, very physically capable but no
           | purpose.
           | 
           | The next domain is going to be incorporating goals and intent
           | and short/long term chains of causality into the model, and
           | for that it seems we're presently missing quite a bit usable
           | training data. That will clearly evolve over time, as will
           | the fidelity of simulations that can be used to train the
           | model and the learned experience of deployed robots.
        
             | robots0only wrote:
             | Locomotion and manipulation are pretty different. The
             | former we know how to do well -- this is what you see in
             | unitree videos. Manipulation still not so much. This is not
             | at all like GPT-2 because we still don't know what to scale
             | (and even the data to scale is not there).
        
           | hadlock wrote:
           | This is where I'm at. If you look at Boston Dynamics' first
           | videos, they're 45 second clips of 4 legged robots walking in
           | not even a straight line, just proving they could walk 5 feet
           | over level ground without falling over. The top comment, from
           | 4 years ago is "This was 11 years ago. Now these things are
           | dancing." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gi6Ohnp9x8
           | 
           | If you can make it look believable on camera for 15 seconds
           | under controlled studio conditions... it's probable you can
           | do it autonomously in 10-15 years. I don't think anyone is
           | going to be casually buying these for their house by this
           | time next year, but it certainly demonstrates what is
           | realistically possible.
           | 
           | If they can provably make these things safe, it will have
           | huge implications for in home care in advanced age, where
           | instead of living in an assisted living home at $huge expense
           | for 20+ years, you might be able to live on your own for most
           | of that time.
           | 
           | I am cautiously optimistic.
        
             | gonzobonzo wrote:
             | The robot (BigDog) in that video shows numerous
             | capabilities that Spot still can't do (climbing over
             | terrain like that, being able to respond to a kick like
             | that, the part on the ice, etc.). Even 16 years later.
             | 
             | This only highlights the fact that making a cool prototype
             | do a few cool things on video is far, far easier than
             | making a commercial product that can consistently do these
             | things reliably. It often takes decades to move from the
             | former to the latter. And Figure hasn't even shown us
             | particularly impressive things from its prototypes yet.
        
         | robots0only wrote:
         | +100!!! Please don't fall for the HYPE.
         | 
         | The current best neural networks only have around 60% success
         | rates for small horizon tasks (think 10-20 seconds e.g. pick up
         | apple). That is why there is so much cut-motions in this video.
         | The future will be awesome but it will take time a lot of
         | research still needs to happen (e.g. robust hands, tactile, how
         | to even collect large scale data, RL).
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | > The future will be awesome
           | 
           | Perhaps this is a bit pedantic, but what about the probable
           | eventual proliferation of useful humanoid robots will make
           | the future awesome? What does an awesome future look like
           | compared to today, to you?
        
         | skilled wrote:
         | You wrote what I wanted to write but I couldn't find such
         | words.
         | 
         | Indeed, all the videos/examples are marketing pieces.
         | 
         | I would love to see a video like this "Logistics"[0] one, that
         | shows this new iteration doing some household tasks. There is
         | no way that it's not clunky and prone to all kinds of accidents
         | and failures. Not that it's a bad thing - it would simply be
         | nice to see.
         | 
         | Maybe they will do another video? Would love that.
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkc2y0yb89U
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | > Go ask anyone working on humanoid robots today, almost
         | everything you see here, if repeated 10 times, will enter
         | failure mode
         | 
         | As someone who worked in the robotics industry, 90% of the
         | demos and videos are cherry-picked, or even blatantly fake.
         | That's why for any new robot in the market, my criteria is: Can
         | I buy it? If it's affordable and the consumer can buy it and
         | find it useful in day to day life, then this robot is useful
         | and has potential; other than that, it's just an investor money
         | grab PR hype.
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | The last example they show (pick up package from pile, put it
         | label-down on conveyor, repeat) seems to be the most realistic.
         | They even have an uncut video of their previous model doing
         | that for an hour on twitter [1].
         | 
         | I'm not sure that task needs a humanoid robot, but the ability
         | to grab and manipulate all those packages and recover from
         | failures is pretty good
         | 
         | 1: https://x.com/adcock_brett/status/1931391783306678515
        
           | aDyslecticCrow wrote:
           | > I'm not sure that task needs a humanoid robot
           | 
           | An industrial robot arm with air powered suction cups would
           | do the trick... https://bostondynamics.com/products/stretch/
           | ...
           | 
           | ... So the task they work best at is the task there is
           | already cheaper better robots specialized for.
        
             | Philip-J-Fry wrote:
             | I feel like we're entering the era of general and
             | inefficient solutions to problems.
             | 
             | Like LLMs being used to pick values out of JSON objects
             | when jq would do the job 1000x more efficiently.
             | 
             | This is what this whole field feels like right now. Let's
             | spend lots of time and energy to create a humanoid robot to
             | do the things humans already decided humans were
             | inefficient at and solved with specialised tools.
             | 
             | Like people saying "oh it can wash my dishes for me". Well,
             | I haven't washed dishes in years, there's a thing called a
             | dishwasher which does one thing and does it well.
             | 
             | "Oh it can do the vacuuming". We have robot vacuums which
             | already do that.
        
               | superpope99 wrote:
               | have you ever googled a simple maths question? I often
               | come back to that and realise we've been in this era for
               | quite a while. Calculator would probably be 1000x more
               | efficient!
        
             | 93po wrote:
             | I think the use case here is smaller to medium size
             | businesses that don't need a $150k suction robot arm 24/7,
             | but _do_ need 24 /7 help with warehousing, packaging,
             | restocking, taking inventory, sorting mailing, applying
             | shipping labes, etc. With a single humanoid robot you can
             | do all that for, at some point, possibly as low as $20k for
             | a one-time robot purchase.
        
               | blackguardx wrote:
               | Why do you think a humanoid robot will be cheaper than a
               | robot arm?
        
             | whatever1 wrote:
             | Of course it does not. We just add scanners in up down left
             | and right of the conveyor. Never touching the package.
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | No doubt. This video is just to hype investors. I'm sure they
         | have more practical business plans than this.
        
         | pizzathyme wrote:
         | How does this square with the video where they showed it
         | running continuously for an hour doing an actual Amazon package
         | sorting job? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkc2y0yb89U
        
           | dust42 wrote:
           | > How does this square with the video where they showed it
           | running continuously for an hour doing an actual Amazon
           | package sorting job?
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkc2y0yb89U
           | 
           | The video shows several of glitches. From the comments:
           | 14:18 the Fall       28:40 the Fall 2       41:23 the Fall 3
           | 
           | Also many of the packages on the left are there throughout
           | the video.
           | 
           | But then I think lots of this can be solved in software and
           | having seen how LLMs have advanced in the last few years, I'd
           | not be surprised to see these robots useful in 5 years.
        
             | tyre wrote:
             | Three mistakes in an hour isn't terrible, especially if
             | that's the last generation. As another commenter put it,
             | this is the worst it's ever going to be.
        
             | Razengan wrote:
             | > _But then I think lots of this can be solved in software
             | and having seen how LLMs have advanced in the last few
             | years, I 'd not be surprised to see these robots useful in
             | 5 years._
             | 
             | Would asking the robot for a seahorse emoji leave you in a
             | puddle of blood?
        
               | dust42 wrote:
               | Thinking about it, I am sure it is only a matter of time
               | until a self driving car or a robot will be used to kill
               | a human. Or on a lower level for a DDoS attack - all
               | cars/robots going to the white house.
        
           | daveguy wrote:
           | Is it really sorting? All I see is the humanoid robot moving
           | similarly shaped / sized packages from one conveyor belt to a
           | platform to another conveyor belt. A little industrial
           | automation design would be much more effective, cheaper, and
           | faster compared to the task it is performing.
        
             | flutas wrote:
             | Plus it's missing the large stack of packages already in
             | the corner that...seems like they will forever be stuck
             | there.
        
             | yorwba wrote:
             | The actual sorting is typically automated with scanners
             | reading the labels and shunting packages from one conveyor
             | belt onto another, basically a physical sorting network.
             | 
             | Tasks left for human "sorters" to do are:
             | 
             | - put packages on conveyor belt so the scanner can read the
             | label (as done by the robot in the video)
             | 
             | - deal with damaged or unreadable packages that can't be
             | processed automatically
             | 
             | - when a package gets jammed and forces the conveyor belt
             | to stop, remove the offending package before restarting
             | 
             | - receive packages at the other end and load them into
             | vehicles
             | 
             | Generally the difficulty with all of these is dealing with
             | variability and humans act as variability absorbers so the
             | machines can operate smoothly.
        
         | sheepybloke wrote:
         | It was interesting to see that they didn't show the robot
         | folding laundry; rather, just it laying out the clothes.
        
           | xnyan wrote:
           | There's a scene about 2/3 through the first video where they
           | show a brief clip of the robot folding and stacking a shirt.
           | The quality and speed was roughly comparable to a 7-10 year
           | old - slow and somewhat sloppy, but recognizably a folded
           | shirt.
        
         | martythemaniak wrote:
         | Rodney Brooks (of iRobot fame) wrote an essay recently about
         | why humanoids are likely decades and not years away from
         | fulfilling their promise. It is quite long, but even a gpt
         | summary will be quite valuable.
         | 
         | https://rodneybrooks.com/why-todays-humanoids-wont-learn-dex...
         | 
         | In short, he makes the case that unlike text and images, human
         | dexterity is based on sensory inputs that we barely understand,
         | that these robots don't have, and it will take a long time to
         | get the right sensors in, get the right data recorded, and only
         | then train them to the level of a human. He is very skeptical
         | that they can learn from video-only data, which is what the
         | companies are doing.
        
           | app13 wrote:
           | Most companies are using world model simulations for training
           | nowadays, like Issac Gym or Mujoco, not just video data.
        
         | WanderPanda wrote:
         | I think this is the frontier when it comes to "unstructured":
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/nmEy1_75qHk
         | 
         | They for sure did not anticipate that the user would backflip
         | into their robot and knock it (and himself) out :D
        
           | someoneontenet wrote:
           | How did I know this was gonna be speed lol
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | I'd watch that game show.
        
         | andrewrn wrote:
         | This is always the case, though. The company is few years old.
         | I'm no disciple of humanoids, but stuff has to start somewhere.
         | Unfortunately hype > truth in order to get funding, so it
         | produces incentives to cherry-pick like this.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | That's the problem.
         | 
         | An obvious application, if this robot could do it, is retail
         | store shelf restocking. That's a reasonably constrained pick
         | and place task, some mobility is necessary, and the humanoid
         | form is appropriate working in aisles and shelves spaced for
         | humans. How close is that?
         | 
         | It's been tried before. In 2020.[1] And again in 2022.[2] That
         | one runs on a track, is closer to an traditional industrial
         | robot, and is used by 7-11 Japan.
         | 
         | Robots that just cruise around stores and inspect the shelves
         | visually are in moderately wide use. They just compare the
         | shelf images with the planogram; they don't handle the
         | merchandise. So there are already systems to help plan the
         | restocking task.
         | 
         | Technical University Delft says their group should be able to
         | do this in five years.[3] (From when? No date on press
         | release.)
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgdW1HYLbM
         | 
         | [2] https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/telexistence-convenience-
         | store...
         | 
         | [3] https://www.tudelft.nl/en/stories/articles/shelf-stocking-
         | ro...
        
         | aowie wrote:
         | Oh wow, a robot that can play with my dog so I don't have to.
         | That's exactly the kind of task I'd be relieved to automate.
         | 
         | The fabric wrap is idiotic. Insanely stupid. Let's have an
         | expensive fabric-covered robot wash dishes covered in food.
         | Genius. It's a good thing those "dirty dishes" were already
         | perfectly clean. I doubt this machine could handle anything
         | more. Put it in a real commercial kitchen and have it scrape
         | oven pans and I'll be impressed.
         | 
         | I'm so glad I left robotics. I don't want to have anything to
         | do with this very silly bubble.
        
       | baron816 wrote:
       | It's crazy to me that Apple hasn't acquired them. Apple is
       | looking for a way to get into AI, and I think this space is much
       | more natural fit than some foundation model lab. The big hurdles
       | to getting these into people's homes is manufacturing scale,
       | trust and privacy, and customer support, all things Apple is
       | really good at.
        
         | imtringued wrote:
         | Why would Apple acquire a company with a 39 billion dollar
         | valuation that has no revenue whatsoever?
        
           | baron816 wrote:
           | Because Apple has a whole lot of money, but no meaningful
           | bets in the AI race.
        
         | varjag wrote:
         | Apple won't acquire something it can't turn into a product in
         | medium term.
        
       | pietz wrote:
       | Give me a 30min uncut video of it doing chores around the house
       | to make me a believer.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Not what you're asking for, but the CEO has posted a bunch of
         | videos on his twitter: https://x.com/adcock_brett/media - def
         | marketing but still, some interesting stuff in there, looks
         | like he is using one in his own home:
         | https://x.com/adcock_brett/status/1950685253447913798
        
       | thund wrote:
       | 4 of them please, going to spend every night playing poker on a
       | real green!
        
       | jppope wrote:
       | Correct me if I'm wrong here but humanoid consumer robots are
       | basically smoke and mirrors right now because the unit economics
       | are so bad. Even the baxter robot was targeting small business
       | because the lowest price point you could get was $40,000 for
       | something that would have to work 24 hours to do something a
       | human would do in an hour or two. Having a robot do chores at
       | home is an even worse financial position. Anyone know more about
       | this?
        
         | pizzathyme wrote:
         | I believe they are shooting for $20k. If (big if) they can
         | actually get it to complete chores in some reasonable amount of
         | time, there would be a market with families that currently
         | employ house workers. Small market but similar play to the
         | original Tesla being high end.
         | 
         | From there, it's a question of could they bring costs down.
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | I do, I think.
         | 
         | It is breaking news if there is a $40K robot that had a 12:1
         | efficiency ratio.*
         | 
         | Because production is so nascent and small, cost doesn't mean
         | _too_ much, no ones scaled yet.
         | 
         | At only $40K capital investment, even a guaranteed 12:1
         | efficiency ratio would be an absolute no-brainer financially
         | for many, many, wealthy people and certainly businesses. I do
         | 1-2 hours of chores a day if I'm lucky. If I had the equivalent
         | of a robot vacuum working 24/7 it'd do a much better job than
         | me.
         | 
         | * The whole thing is written up and shown in a way that makes
         | you think we're on the second refining release of a
         | breakthrough**. I don't think they've gotten to the
         | breakthrough yet - we would have seen > 0 videos from outside
         | the company by v3.
         | 
         | ** Really, the whole thing has an audience of one: Musk. (c.f.
         | focus on fingers which was recently reported as the major pain
         | point for whatever he calls their robot not making it to
         | production; aping of Musk-y things like the factory itself a
         | product)
        
         | xdennis wrote:
         | I'm surprised people are so negative here. Compared with
         | generative AI (which steals work, and replaces the part people
         | like about their jobs: creativity), the promise of humanoid
         | robots is that they'll do the my chores, while I focus on the
         | important stuff.
         | 
         | What surprises me is that people can't see this for what it is:
         | early steps.
         | 
         | As an aside, the first steam engine was created by the Greeks
         | 2000 years ago, but they just used it for toys. When Watt
         | created the modern steam engine it had 0.7 horsepower. He
         | actually invented the term horsepower as a marketing term
         | because his engine was so underpowered. An actual horse
         | produces 14 horsepower, but he adjusted for how long a horse
         | needs to sleep and and rest and came up with 1 horsepower. His
         | first production engine had 5 horsepower.
         | 
         | If hackers had existed in the 18th century I would have
         | expected them to see the promise of engines replacing horses
         | even though engines were less powerful at the time, not say
         | "engines are basically smoke and mirrors right now".
         | 
         | It could be that I'm wrong, and we're at the Greek stage, where
         | humanoids are at a false start, just toys, and the real thing
         | is 2000 years away. But the lack of optimism surprises me.
        
           | jppope wrote:
           | So my take is actually the opposite from the callout here- I
           | think vaporware/demos being sold as real products are hurtful
           | to actual technology being developed. When someone creates a
           | vaporware product with well developed marketing that doesn't
           | work out, actual consumers lose enthusiasm/interest for real
           | development in the area. Investment in the area will slow
           | down.
        
       | lordofgibbons wrote:
       | I know the current early generations of humanoid robots are very
       | janky and slow, but I'd gladly pay $20k USD for a robot to do all
       | the household chores.
        
         | lanfeust6 wrote:
         | Really? I don't even think a cheap robo-vac is a good purchase.
        
           | lordofgibbons wrote:
           | I have one (a Roborocks), and thinking of getting a second
           | one for the second level of the house. Great value.
        
             | lanfeust6 wrote:
             | We work from home and have kids. Not only is the sound
             | annoying, the kids will be too tempted to jump on it.
             | Notwithstanding that, it doesn't seem to clean that well.
        
       | Teknomadix wrote:
       | From the Figure Master Plan:
       | 
       | "Today, manual labor compensation is the primary driver of goods
       | and services prices, accounting for ~50% of global GDP (~$42
       | trillion/yr), but as these robots "join the workforce,"
       | everywhere from factories to farmland, the cost of labor will
       | decrease until it becomes equivalent to the price of renting a
       | robot, facilitating a long-term, holistic reduction in costs."
       | 
       | Renting a robot? What are the chances of robot rent-seeking
       | becoming a drop in replacement for today's increasing costs of
       | labor. A high likelihood potential outcome.
        
         | antoniojtorres wrote:
         | Plus looking at the cost of labor strictly as a burden and not
         | as something that supports the working class is a special kind
         | of pathology.
        
           | mainecoder wrote:
           | the cost of labor is shared the the working class as well ,
           | it is not just tha capitalist class that pays for labor that
           | labor cost is in the final cost of all the goods and services
           | you use. These robots make life better, if you don't want to
           | buy a robot that is your choice but do not take the freedom
           | of others to buy ,use make and modify robots.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | Folks are very critical. Consider: this is the worst they will
       | ever be. You improve one robot at one task, they all can share
       | that training. It will only get better from here.
        
         | consumer451 wrote:
         | I know that a video can be faked, cherry-picked, etc. Even
         | knowing all that, I find this to be significant advancement,
         | scary, and very cool.
         | 
         | People being super negative about this is a bit surprising to
         | me.
        
           | dcchambers wrote:
           | > People being super negative about this is a bit surprising
           | to me.
           | 
           | We're reaching a point in these advances where EVERYONE is
           | starting to worry about their job security.
           | 
           | And the society we live in - at least in the US - has no
           | safety net ready for a mass replacement of workers with
           | technology like this.
           | 
           | Oh AI took your software job? Good news you can still go into
           | construction - oh wait, that's not an option either. How
           | about housecleaning? Oh no, that's been automated too. Well
           | sorry, we have no safety net for you. Good luck in the
           | streets.
        
             | consumer451 wrote:
             | Yeah, that's fair.
             | 
             | It will be interesting to see how messed up our political
             | leadership lets things get before they slightly tweak their
             | belief system.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | It's HN. One of the most negative places on the internet in
           | my experience.
           | 
           | I guess it's kind of natural because when you agree with
           | stuff there's not much value saying "yes this is right" but
           | if you disagree then you generally have a lot to say about
           | why.
           | 
           | But also I think there are a lot of curmudgeons here. Back in
           | my day we didn't need no stinkin _robots_ and _AI_ and
           | _toktik_. And anyway I could make a way better robot, this is
           | no big deal.
        
             | consumer451 wrote:
             | > there's not much value saying "yes this is right"
             | 
             | This is a major flaw in social media/forums that distorts
             | public opinion so very much.
        
       | logankeenan wrote:
       | I'd really like to understand the total compute cost it takes to
       | accomplish these tasks. I assume the compute is happening in a DC
       | somewhere and not all onboard. Is the total cost of compute plus
       | electricity to power the machine less than the cost of human
       | labor to do the same task? At some point it'll be less. If so,
       | far out in the future until the prices make economic sense
        
       | tibbar wrote:
       | Man, watching the robot delivering a package was an uncanny
       | valley moment for me. Frickin' Star Wars droids. I think it would
       | be a little too weird for me to be surrounded by lifelike
       | military-looking androidds.
        
       | philipwhiuk wrote:
       | > Figure 03 was engineered from the ground-up for high-volume
       | manufacturing. In order to scale, we established a new supply
       | chain and entirely new process for manufacturing humanoid robots
       | at BotQ.
       | 
       | If they make a hundred of these, it'll be impressive. If they
       | make a thousand it'll be scary.
        
       | xvilka wrote:
       | The weakest point of any robot now is the energy source. Even
       | with the most advanced AI and body it will be tethered to the
       | power network or some big battery. It will negatively affect
       | potential adoption outside of the places like warehouses,
       | factories, hotels, malls, bars, etc.
        
         | ionwake wrote:
         | Tethering worked for Evangelions tho
        
       | NewUser76312 wrote:
       | People comparing this to GPT-2 is very interesting. While it
       | sounds like a nice analogy or even a good story to investors, the
       | fundamentals are very different.
       | 
       | To train GPT, all of the training data (the internet of text,
       | scanned books, etc) had already existed, even before the GPT
       | project began. Arguably, the compute required (for GPT-3) also
       | already existed, even before GPT-2.
       | 
       | The GPT project really just came down to investing in all of the
       | pieces to take the ideas from a 2017 research paper to the next
       | level. Nobody knew if X thousand GPUs, plus all of the internet's
       | text, plus neural network transformers, would work out. But
       | somebody took a risk in putting together the existing pieces, and
       | proved that it can.
       | 
       | There's no analogy here to humanoid robotics. Not only is the
       | data required for neural network operated humanoids close to non-
       | existent (at the scale needed), but the nature of the data itself
       | is enormously more complicated that taking a list of tokens in a
       | vocabulary, and outputting 1 more token from the same vocabulary.
       | 
       | That being said, I still applaud the ambition of the Figure team.
       | While I think it's clear they are presenting incredibly cherry-
       | picked examples, they aren't trying to mislead consumers with a
       | product for sale (because... they can't). Instead, they are
       | productizing important research to investors, who would otherwise
       | waste money on less important and less ambitious projects. So
       | overall I find projects of this nature to be a net positive for
       | technical innovation.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Not directly related to what you're saying (I take your point),
         | but you might find these ideas interesting! :)
         | 
         | https://openreview.net/forum?id=3RSLW9YSgk
         | 
         | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08744-2
         | 
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.10100
         | 
         | https://www.datacamp.com/blog/genesis-physics-engine
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | Isn't that assuming training methods remain the same?
         | 
         | It seems like learning from the environment will be a
         | requirement for robots to scale. My understanding is that
         | research has been yielding new architectures that might have
         | that type of real-time, general intelligence but we haven't
         | seen that similarly large investment yet.
        
       | unglaublich wrote:
       | It's very pretty, but having worked in robotics, reality isn't
       | that smooth.
       | 
       | Also I'm not convinced that humanoids are an effective
       | realization of robotics. The human shape and functions evolved
       | from the biological pros and cons of our chemistry. That of
       | robots is very different, so you'd expect similarly different
       | shapes and functions.
        
       | mysterEFrank wrote:
       | This company will go to zero when the AI bubble bursts.
        
       | nialse wrote:
       | Why does the house not have stairs? Ohh.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | How are they trained to your preferences?
        
       | breppp wrote:
       | The site has a definite kill-you-in-your-sleep vibe with the dark
       | undertones and the alien eyeless appearance.
       | 
       | Where are the designers tasked with stirring clear off the
       | uncanny valley?
        
       | cooper_ganglia wrote:
       | Crazy to me how negative the comments are here. None of this was
       | even remotely possible less than 5 years ago. Now, we're demoing
       | consumer-facing robotics that will soon, within a couple
       | iterations, be able to perform most of your household tasks
       | without issue.
       | 
       | The frog boils quickly.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | >> Now, we're demoing consumer-facing robotics that will soon,
         | within a couple iterations, be able to perform most of your
         | household tasks without issue.
         | 
         | Turns out they're either insanely expensive or they just can't
         | actually learn on the fly and do tasks. This is the Nth time
         | I've seen a robot folding a shirt but never in a cluttered room
         | or taken from a pile of laundry.
         | 
         | I figured the first AI robots would be pets, but apparently
         | they're aren't even that good yet. Furby level isn't going to
         | cut it.
        
           | cooper_ganglia wrote:
           | >This is the Nth time I've seen a robot folding a shirt
           | 
           | This is precisely what I mean. These systems aren't perfect,
           | and won't be widely usable in the home for several more
           | years, but this is the worst they'll ever be! This is the
           | first glimpse of a future without the need of physical human
           | labor, for better or worse.
           | 
           | We're watching robots intelligently find a shirt, figure out
           | how to fold it relative to its position, and then parse all
           | that data, tokenizing both vision + text instructions into
           | actionable movements that actually result in the physical
           | world being affected!
           | 
           | All this, and people are criticizing it's manufacturing cost
           | or ability to do things it hasn't been explicitly trained to
           | do in 2025. I see these things and don't think about 2025,
           | I'm thinking about 2040 and the inevitable future we're
           | diving into.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | > None of this was even remotely possible less than 5 years
         | ago.
         | 
         | Boston Dynamics has been releasing actual product demos of such
         | robots (not cherry-picked ads) for ~20 years now. Not a single
         | one has graduated to any mass market real world use case.
         | 
         | I'm not saying one shouldn't be hopeful, but it's also not hard
         | to see why people here are generally more conservative about
         | the near future.
        
           | Symmetry wrote:
           | There are actually thousands of Spots out in the world,
           | mostly doing industrial inspections, now.
        
           | derac wrote:
           | Humanoid robotics has been picking up pace the past couple of
           | years. The hardware and the software has gotten much better
           | very recently. Progress is not linear. You can see this in
           | Atlas itself.
        
           | cooper_ganglia wrote:
           | >Boston Dynamics has been releasing actual product demos of
           | such robots (not cherry-picked ads) for ~20 years now. Not a
           | single one has graduated to any mass market real world use
           | case.
           | 
           | Good point, which is why Boston Dynamics didn't really excite
           | me. It was very cool to see the bot balance itself while
           | being pushed with a hockey stick, but LiDAR-based pathfinding
           | on hydraulic actuators has never truly felt like the future.
           | Balancing and doing backflips is different than walking
           | through a home and being able to perform delicate or visually
           | difficult tasks like loading a dishwasher or caring for your
           | baby in it's crib at night (just kidding, lol)
           | 
           | I'm sure a lot of BD's initial R&D has made Figure able to
           | ramp so quickly and _I don 't mean to speak negatively of BD
           | at all_, but within 3 years, Figure has made it feel like the
           | future is at our doorstep, meanwhile BD hasn't really done
           | that for me in 3 decades. That's very impressive to me.
        
             | derac wrote:
             | Building on the shoulders of giants. Not long ago this
             | smaller form factor battery powered electric robot wouldn't
             | have been possible. The necessary tech for the software is
             | only just starting to work. Post-2024 Atlas is also very
             | impressive.
        
               | buu700 wrote:
               | Also worth noting that Hyundai acquired Boston Dynamics
               | in 2021, which I would expect to have been motivated by
               | some sort of plan for productization and mass production.
        
             | hadlock wrote:
             | One of the really big things that nobody talks about is the
             | invention of the "mit cheetah actuator" which was invented
             | in (well, the paper was published) in 2017, and commercial
             | copies became freely availble in ~2020 online for about
             | $350-400. Xaiomi and other companies now manufacture
             | improved, updated actuators. They are roughly shaped like a
             | hockey puck 1.5-2.5x upscaled. These are 1) very high
             | torque for their size and weight and 2) offer "springback"
             | similar to human joints. Not very useful for industrial
             | welding machines putting cars together, but for walking
             | robots, it reduces instantaneous strain and literally puts
             | a "spring" in their step. This allowed robots to go from
             | being stepper motor driven (which are huge, heavy), to much
             | more compact, which greatly improves performance, battery
             | life, and they can actually fit in human homes etc etc
        
           | Veedrac wrote:
           | This is quite loosely stated. It's true Boston Dynamics is an
           | old company and that they've had some very cool demos. It's
           | not at all true that they've been showing qualitatively
           | similar things for 20 years.
           | 
           | The oldest video on their YouTube channel is 16 years old,
           | and is of a quadrupedal robot not falling over while inching
           | along tricky surfaces.
        
           | xdennis wrote:
           | > Boston Dynamics has been releasing actual product demos of
           | such robots
           | 
           | Boston Dynamics hasn't released any actual products. They
           | seem to be focused on flashy demos of robots dancing instead
           | of end user products.
           | 
           | As a counterpoint, Unitree right now sells humanoids you can
           | actually buy. They're no where near as good, but you can
           | actually use them.
        
             | ItsHarper wrote:
             | They do sell Spot, actually
        
           | 93po wrote:
           | BD up until very recently only focused on hydraulics were
           | which were extremely loud, expensive, bulky, and expensive to
           | maintain. It was basically impossible to find a use case for
           | such a thing that didn't have to cohabitate in spaces with
           | humans. They also lacked the modeling for it to do much of
           | anything other than walk, and even then recent advances in ML
           | have in only a couple of years massively outperformed their
           | in-house attempts that took 20.
           | 
           | BD was a money-burning machine that suckled off the teat of
           | the miltiary industrial complex, where billions of dollars
           | can be casually lost and there's no accountability and no one
           | notices its gone. Their tech was cool, though, and their
           | engineers did awesome work.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | You never know how soon or how many iterations until after the
         | goal has been achieved. Sometimes something like the smartphone
         | explodes relatively quickly after the concept starts coming
         | together. Other times you're waiting decades upon decades to
         | turn the corner, like with fusion power.
         | 
         | Humanoid robots have fallen into the latter category for too
         | long for most people to jump at each advancement being "the
         | one" anymore. Afterwards, everyone will agree it was obvious
         | ${ADVANCEMENT} was really the one which would do it - but not
         | before.
        
         | geraneum wrote:
         | > within a couple iterations, be able to perform most of your
         | household tasks without issue.
         | 
         | There goes all those plumbing jobs that we, the white collar,
         | were told we should be doing after LLMs take our jobs.
         | 
         | edit: typo
        
       | emporas wrote:
       | The era of intelligent robots is the end of washing machines and
       | many other specialized machines, even tractors.
       | 
       | Two kinds of machinery are needed.
       | 
       | One very basic and cheap robot to go around the neighborhood and
       | gather clothes in some boxes, and transfer them in a designated
       | room to wash them.
       | 
       | Two state of the art robotic hands mounted on the wall, and
       | connected to AC (no batteries). The two arms are going to be
       | controlled by computers even a whole rack of them, with many GPUs
       | in them. The whole setup might use 10KW of energy, it will wash
       | clothes by hand, it will be fast, dexterous and accurate.
       | Expensive as well. In 3 minutes it will wash 100 t-shirts much
       | better than the best human on the planet, or any other non-
       | intelligent machine.
       | 
       | Then the small basic robot returns the clothes to the house.
       | 
       | Same with cooking. Same with many other things.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | Yeah, why have a washing machine when you can just let your
         | droid hand wash the dishes? At high enough temperatures and
         | proper scrub that's likely going to be better and take less
         | time.
        
           | emporas wrote:
           | Not droid, just arms. If it needs to be fast, lift weights
           | (just the arms or even more), have high quality cameras and
           | be connected to a lot of compute, it needs AC from the grid.
           | 
           | AC wires, better not move around, especially when there is
           | water. It has to be mounted on the wall.
        
       | msci100 wrote:
       | Anyone currently developing a solution for the large scale data
       | challenges that these video-streaming robots will have in their
       | R&D phase?
        
       | lennon03 wrote:
       | Reminds me of the Linkin park song
        
       | bix6 wrote:
       | R. Daneel Olivaw in the house!
        
       | numpad0 wrote:
       | Yay still no multipart torso or roll axis on head but roll axis
       | on pelvis that's getting used. That's cool.
        
       | ori_b wrote:
       | I don't get it. Humanoids are a really crappy shape for a lot of
       | tasks, and the only benefit seems to be the ability to pay people
       | to walk around in motion capture suits for training.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Yeah but the world is designed around that crappy shape.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Yeah but they're a crappy shape for A LOT of tasks. It's not
         | ideal but it's a versatile solution.
        
       | crnkofe wrote:
       | Even if its just a demo its really slick. Tech has come a long
       | way. Can't say I want to talk to a droid to check-in at a hotel
       | or bump into one at home all the time but I'm sure there are some
       | obvious civilian use cases around.
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | At a certain price point, our choice will be either hotel with
         | bot or AirBnb.
        
         | jamilton wrote:
         | It's cool, but it's total uncanny valley for me, and I haven't
         | gotten that from real robots before. Something about the
         | movement in particular is odd.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Put one of these things on the streets of France, and I don't
       | give it one hour before it gets beaten to pieces.
       | 
       | I mean, I so want to trash it myself, and I am the non-violent
       | type.
        
       | jayd16 wrote:
       | Can we just slap some arms on a washer/dryer combo unit if we
       | think that'll work? We skip having to design bi-pedal balance,
       | increase the power envelope, and greatly reduce scope and cost.
       | 
       | Surely there's a market for an appliance that can load, wash,
       | dry, fold where the only human interaction is dumping the clothes
       | and soap within arm's reach.
        
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