[HN Gopher] Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2025
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       Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2025
        
       Author : pykello
       Score  : 289 points
       Date   : 2025-10-08 09:49 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nobelprize.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nobelprize.org)
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | So... these are very fun materials, a kind of real-life menger
       | sponges with huge internal surface area.
       | 
       | Some fifteen years ago, as an intern working for a company making
       | desulfurization catalysts (stuff that removes nasty sulfur
       | compounds from crude oil so they don't stink up the gas you put
       | in your car), I prepared a few of the easy-to-handle air stable
       | ones.
       | 
       | Reactions between fluids and a solid catalyst take place on the
       | catalyst surface, so higher surface area = higher reaction rates
       | = better.
       | 
       | I remember everyone's minds at the company being completely blown
       | by the ridiculous surface areas of my attempts at recreating some
       | random MOFs from literature. Got awarded the highest possible
       | grade for no reason other than (badly) following a few procedures
       | and measuring that indeed, their internal surface area was
       | insanely big.
       | 
       | Thanks Yaghi and co. I'll always fondly remember your MOFs.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | > ... Got awarded the highest possible grade for no reason
         | other than (badly) following a few procedures and measuring
         | that indeed, their internal surface area was insanely big
         | 
         | It's totally OK to experiment with these things, but wouldn't
         | you then have to worry about these application areas being
         | patented and having to enter into costly licensing deals if you
         | wanted to use them in industry?
        
           | mikeyouse wrote:
           | OP was an intern - the potential commercialization of the
           | tech would be left up to the rest of the team. And "costly"
           | is a very relative term.. Exxon earned like $350 billion in
           | revenue last year with over $30 billion in profit. They'd be
           | happy to invest in cutting edge tech if it simplifies their
           | supply chain or removes some steps or units from their
           | refining process.
        
           | condensedcrab wrote:
           | IANAL, but I suspect that the IP situation is similar to
           | current uses, such as catalytic converters.
           | 
           | New tech and specific applications can be covered for
           | commercialization, but the general "idea" of using MOFs for
           | adsorption is broad enough that you'd probably only get into
           | legal hot water if you tried to introduce a direct competitor
           | to someone in the market.
        
           | isoprophlex wrote:
           | In addition to what condensedcrab and mikeyouse wrote, there
           | is a HUGE gap between a commercially viable, patentable
           | product and a freely accessible paper stating "take copper
           | acetate and benzenetricarboxylic acid, stir at pH so and so
           | and remove the volatiles in vacuum".
           | 
           | The resulting blue crunchy mess is NOWHERE near something on
           | a support material that you throw into a fluidized bed
           | reactor for reaction at elevated temperature for months on
           | end. And that's where the proprietary magic happens.
        
             | throwawaymaths wrote:
             | is desulfurization endothermic? one thing I'd worry about
             | when increasing the surface area that much for an
             | industrialized process is making your reaction vat into a
             | bomb
        
         | MengerSponge wrote:
         | > a kind of real-life menger sponges with huge internal surface
         | area
         | 
         | And me, I've been here the whole time!
        
           | lisper wrote:
           | Oh, come on, now you have to tell the story behind your user
           | name!
        
             | evertedsphere wrote:
             | sometimes you just happen to be a mathematical object
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | Hmmm. This years' nobel prizes are a bit more boring compared to
       | prior ones. I understand that not all ideas or inventions are
       | created equal, but I prefer more raw epicness.
        
         | gerikson wrote:
         | When you have a yearly prize, you're bound to get off-years.
         | Maybe the Nobels should be structured to only be given out
         | every 4 years, like the Olympics. But that would be a huge blow
         | to the Stockholm hospitality business.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | You hit it on the head: comparing the Nobel prizes to the
           | Olympics. Perhaps to some they look too much like the
           | Olympics: periodic, awarded in various categories. I suggest
           | the similarities end there though.
        
         | nylonstrung wrote:
         | This seems pretty epic to me- an entirely new material
         | primitive with novel real world properties
        
         | StopDisinfo910 wrote:
         | The Nobel prizes are not there to produce good sounding opeds
         | and "epic" news to entertain the general public.
         | 
         | It's a prize given to scientists to highlight and encourage
         | valuable research according to a jury of pairs.
        
         | speed_spread wrote:
         | You can't discover cold fusion every year.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Aaaay! (Ouch)
        
         | PlasmonOwl wrote:
         | What do you mean boring? MOFs are a fascinating area of
         | chemistry. Outside of nature, they are most likely our best
         | example of rationally designed nanoscale systems. In chemistry,
         | rational design - that based on rules - is a rare thing.
         | Molecules bump around and stick together in unpredictable ways,
         | but MOFs allow us to create very well defined nanoscale
         | frameworks. They're famously tricky, though!
        
         | queuebert wrote:
         | How about the Ig Nobel Prize?
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel_Prize
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | You'll have to wait for the Nobel Peace Prize announcement if
         | you want to see some "epicness" this year.
        
         | whizzter wrote:
         | While quantum-tunneling is quite niche I think it's given to
         | demonstrate something with everyday life application
         | (considering the outsized impact of microprocessors on
         | society).
         | 
         | This MoF thing is quite damn cool though, advancing moisture
         | capturing in arid regions itself is big.
         | 
         | But also being able to separate chemicals in a more controlled
         | manner sounds like something really groundbreaking that will
         | probably impact chemistry for a long time to come.
        
           | CalChris wrote:
           | Quantum tunneling has been productized for _decades_.
           | 
           | https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairview-
           | Microwave/FMMT...
        
         | condensedcrab wrote:
         | Nobel prizes in Physics and Chemistry tend to be awarded long
         | after discovery. It's part of the process in evaluating the
         | impact of a specific discovery.
         | 
         | That being said, you get stuff like high Tc superconductors
         | that are awarded the following year:
         | https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1987/press-release...
        
         | j7ake wrote:
         | Rather than scoff at the selection, maybe use the opportunity
         | to recalibrate and expand what one considers "interesting"?
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | Last years were rather tortured. It feels weird to give the
         | chemistry prize to the CEO of a computer science lab.
        
       | Metacelsus wrote:
       | MOFs have been the "hot thing" in chemistry for about the past
       | decade so this certainly isn't a surprise. Congrats to the
       | laureates!
        
       | pama wrote:
       | This is as cool as it gets for using organic chemistry to design
       | materials: design your own little lego blocks and let them self
       | assemble into a humongous structure.
        
         | SJC_Hacker wrote:
         | Nature figured that out a half billion years ago :-)
        
       | ripe wrote:
       | Very well-written description. Unfortunately, my brain stumbled
       | over a few annoyances:
       | 
       | 1. In the phrase "metal-organic": that's not a hyphen in the
       | text.
       | 
       | 2. What's with the dropped apostrophe: "the ions and molecules
       | inherent attraction to each other mattered"
       | 
       | Sorry, I know I'm not supposed to comment on such things, but
       | they're distracting in otherwise good copy.
        
         | queuebert wrote:
         | 1. Very few people these days understand the difference between
         | hyphens, en-dashes, and em-dashes. And then converting fonts
         | and character sets on the internet adds another layer of error
         | generation. We could settle on using a single '-' for hyphen
         | and en-dash and a ' -- ' for em-dashes in fonts that don't have
         | a ligature, but that hasn't carried down from the typewriter
         | days for some reason. Microsoft Word is probably a big part of
         | why.
         | 
         | 2. No excuse for this.
        
         | svat wrote:
         | (2) is just a typo but as for (1) "metal-organic" correctly
         | uses an en dash, and this is quite nice to see. They're
         | consistently using the en dash even in their tweets etc, which
         | is lovely.
         | 
         | (Wikipedia gives examples like "Boston-Hartford route" and
         | "Bose-Einstein statistics".
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dash&oldid=131217...
         | )
        
           | ripe wrote:
           | Thank you! TIL that the term is analogous to Boston-Hartford
           | route. (I failed to type the en-dash here on my mobile)
        
         | whizzter wrote:
         | Probably written by Swedish persons, we also use -s suffixes in
         | many places but basically never with apostrophes so using them
         | when writing English can be a bit hard to get correct (and
         | vice-versa going back to Swedish it's easy to add them in the
         | wrong places).
        
       | rafa___ wrote:
       | Amazing stuff
        
       | Octoth0rpe wrote:
       | I'm quite confused by some of the units used in the article. For
       | example:
       | 
       | > A couple of grams of MOF-5 holds an area as big as a football
       | pitch
       | 
       | grams are of course a measure of mass, and a football pitch is
       | presumably a measure of 2d space. Does anyone have any idea how
       | these relate? I can imagine some heavily modified form of this
       | making sense, such as: a couple of grams of MOF-5 is able to
       | contain the amount of gas that would fill a standard football
       | stadium at 1 atmosphere of pressure, but that amount of mangling
       | seems unreasonable.
        
         | svara wrote:
         | It's the internal surface area. Like saying 10 grams of Swiss
         | cheese has X surface area in its holes on average.
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | Imagine a very very thin blanket the size of a football pitch
         | scrunched into a very small ball.
        
       | batterychem wrote:
       | There's a running joke about MOFs in the physical and inorganic
       | chemistry worlds - their only real-world application is producing
       | JACS papers.
       | 
       | Bit of a disappointing prize, but hey, at least it went to
       | chemists this year!
        
         | semitones wrote:
         | What if down the line we discover that MOFs can be used for
         | sophisticated drug delivery? Imagine a therapy like this: a
         | patient lies on a magnetic table, and is administered a dose of
         | MOFs containing a specific drug, via bloodstream injection. The
         | metal of choice is the MOF is magnetic. The magnetic table
         | slowly guides the MOFs towards the part of the body that
         | requires the drug, keeping them concentrated there for some
         | period of time while the drug if absorbed by the body. If it is
         | then necessary/ideal to remove the MOFs, the procedure can be
         | performed in reverse. The patient's blood is drawn, and the
         | MOFs are guided to the site of the injection. An external
         | appartus filters the MOFs out of the blood, and returns the
         | filtered blood to the patient (to minimize blood loss).
         | 
         | This therapy could take something like 1-2 hours and could
         | potentially be a drastically more efficient way to administer
         | drugs, because they will primarily affect the target
         | organ/region rather than be necessarily dispersed throughout
         | the whole body, which would result in better intervention
         | outcomes, and less side-effects.
        
         | owenversteeg wrote:
         | My only connection to the field is that I am a guy who uses
         | zeolites in a redneck way - so take this with a huge heap of
         | salt - but I think this is a three part chicken and egg
         | problem. People don't use MOFs because they're expensive,
         | they're expensive because they're not mass-produced, and
         | they're not mass produced because the shape of the demand is
         | uncertain.
         | 
         | The shape of the demand is the tricky bit. They're not like
         | many other emerging technologies; they are a whole class of
         | materials with wildly different properties, each of which you
         | can produce in several forms; and production is wildly
         | different depending on the type. If there is demand for X
         | tons/yr, spread across 10 industries, but 90% of that demand is
         | in one industry that requires properties of XYZ, then you need
         | to produce the right MOFs in the right form.
         | 
         | The issue, in my mind, is that a lot of this stuff sort of
         | requires a very large vertically integrated company or
         | government project to kickstart it. You can't go out as a
         | company and say "we want to buy X tons of MIL-53(Sc)" [0],
         | nobody would sell it to you. You also can't go out as a
         | producer and start making X tons of MIL-53(Sc) either. The
         | ideal would be that you are, say, TSMC and it would enhance one
         | of your processes, so you make a few kg in house, you use most
         | of it, you sell the rest, and kickstart an industry in that
         | way.
         | 
         | From my perspective - which, again, take with a heap of salt -
         | I think that academia could do their part by "advertising" the
         | most promising candidates better. The list of MOFs is long and
         | many are not usable or stable in real world conditions. Take
         | some of the more promising candidates out of the lab and do
         | some demos with industry. Put together some videos. Write up
         | some honest reports toward an engineer's point of view. That
         | would provide a real boost towards real-world applications.
         | 
         | [0] I just picked MIL-53(Sc) because it's funny, obviously
         | nobody in the real world is going to use scandium in a
         | production product.
        
           | batterychem wrote:
           | There definitely is a bit of chicken-egg going on. But at the
           | same time, if there was a truly emerging market, people would
           | find a way to try and force it.
           | 
           | Right now the main issue is that there aren't even really
           | great, cheap ways to mass produce them. Almost everything
           | that's been performed on MOFs has been at the laboratory
           | scale, and there's not necessarily a clear path to scale up.
           | And there are fundamental cost-to-effect ratio issues that
           | can't necessarily be easily overcome.
        
       | owenversteeg wrote:
       | Congratulations to the laureates! Well deserved.
       | 
       | The article gives a good simplified explanation, here is my
       | shorter explanation: porous materials, like sponges, have a lot
       | of surface area, which is useful for two main reasons: 1)
       | speeding up reaction rates and 2) capturing and releasing
       | molecules (water, CO2, pollutants, etc.) More surface area is
       | more valuable. Before, the most surface area we had was with
       | zeolites, which are aluminosilicate minerals which occur
       | naturally and are also synthetically produced - the synthetics
       | mostly produced by trial and error. MOFs are unique in a few
       | ways; for one, they are rationally designed molecules where we
       | can predict some properties, and two, the surface area is far
       | higher than zeolites. Zeolites range from 10-1700 m2/gram based
       | on how you measure (most are from 20-400) and MOFs range from
       | 1000-7000+.
       | 
       | Unfortunately MOFs are still quite expensive and very much on the
       | cutting edge, so I am forced to use zeolites anytime I want a lot
       | of surface area, but they are getting more accessible (you can
       | now buy them on Amazon!) and I imagine the price will come down
       | for some of the simpler to make MOFs in the near future.
        
         | gwerbret wrote:
         | Thank you. This is the sort of contextual overview that should
         | really float to the top of discussions like this.
        
       | kaycebasques wrote:
       | The story about the "aha!" moment inspires me to find ways to
       | physically play with ideas more:
       | 
       | > When the workshop returned the wooden balls, he tested building
       | some molecules. This was when he had a moment of insight: there
       | was a vast amount of information baked into the holes'
       | positioning. The model molecules automatically had the correct
       | form and structure, because of where the holes were situated.
       | This insight led to his next idea: what would happen if he
       | utilised the atoms' inherent properties to link together
       | different types of molecules, rather than individual atoms? Could
       | he design new types of molecular constructions?
        
         | btilly wrote:
         | In _Surely You Must Be Joking, Mr. Feynman_ , Richard Feynman
         | tells the story of how he managed to end a dry spell where he
         | couldn't come up with good research ideas.
         | 
         | He was in a cafeteria, someone slipped, and accidentally threw
         | a plate into the air. Feynman could see it spinning, and could
         | see that it had a wobble that spun, and wondered if he could
         | figure out the ratio between the two.
         | 
         | The piece of mathematics that he worked out had no particular
         | purpose. But having it turned out to be essential later in the
         | work that earned him a Nobel prize.
         | 
         | Never underestimate the value of play!
        
           | biofox wrote:
           | >Never underestimate the value of play!
           | 
           | I don't. It's my boss who doesn't see the value :(
        
       | nee1r wrote:
       | Love MOFs! Did research about MOFs <=> language modeling a couple
       | years ago and I'm excited to see them getting more coverage
       | https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.07617
        
       | BurningFrog wrote:
       | The practical applications, should expectations pan out, are
       | pretty fantastic.
       | 
       | - Harvesting water from air anywhere, including the desert, would
       | be incredibly useful. Maybe we can make the air too dry somehow,
       | but that should be manageable.
       | 
       | - I expect the world will solve the CO2 global warming situation
       | by sequestering the excess CO2 underground. We know how to
       | sequester gas from the natural gas industry. We just need a way
       | to grab pure CO2 from the atmosphere. MOFs look like they'll be
       | the best way to do that!
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | > We just need a way to grab pure CO2 from the atmosphere.
         | 
         | You really understate the absolutely massive amount of
         | resources it would take to actually do this.
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | First of all: You may well be right about the cost!
           | 
           | Of course, to solve the biggest problem on the planet,
           | absolutely massive amounts of resources may be the right size
           | investment.
           | 
           | The way I imagine this to work is that a future MOF material
           | spontaneously accumulates CO2 molecules from the atmosphere.
           | When it's "full" the CO2 is extracted (this may be the hard
           | part), and pumped underground (this is mature tech).
           | 
           | If you can go through this cycle without destroying the MOF,
           | it seems pretty sustainable to me.
        
         | lentil_soup wrote:
         | > Harvesting water from air anywhere
         | 
         | Could this lead to better dehumidifiers?
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | Yeah, it's pretty much the same technology.
           | 
           | I looked around, and commercial products are starting to
           | appear, but so far the prices have a few too many zeros for
           | home use: https://airjouletech.com/industry/moisture-control/
        
       | dtgriscom wrote:
       | Derek Lowe's commentary: https://www.science.org/blogs/pipeline
        
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