[HN Gopher] Everything Is Becoming a Bank
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Everything Is Becoming a Bank
        
       Author : colinprince
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2025-10-07 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jacobin.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jacobin.com)
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | > _More Americans than ever are in debt to their nearby grocery
       | store due to predatory "buy now, pay later" loans offered during
       | checkout._
       | 
       | I've seen this when checking out online, but never in my local
       | grocery stores.
        
         | edflsafoiewq wrote:
         | Typically you'd also be in debt to the BNPL provider, not the
         | merchant.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | This only exists if you are using delivery services like
         | instacart.
         | 
         | Which suggests a wild scenario that people can't afford
         | groceries but are using a luxury service to buy and deliver
         | them.
         | 
         | "It was the best of times - it was the worst of times"
        
         | garbawarb wrote:
         | Is that predatory? Can't you just decline the offer?
        
         | busymom0 wrote:
         | I have seen that on Walmart self checkout machines here in
         | Canada.
        
       | spookybones wrote:
       | My partner convinced me to use the Starbucks app for incentives.
       | Unsurprisingly within months, the company doubled the points
       | requirements for all rewards. I now have a dollar and change held
       | hostage on it, but refuse to keep topping it up. I imagine there
       | are many people in my situation.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >Unsurprisingly within months, the company doubled the points
         | requirements for all rewards.
         | 
         | Surely that was a coincidence? The most I could find was
         | grumblings about the program changing back in 2019[1], but so
         | far as I can tell it stayed the same since then. I agree points
         | devaluations are bad, but people aren't storing their life
         | savings in them, and the "cost" of those points are basically
         | zero, so I'm not sure what the hand-wringing over them is
         | about.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.areweadultsyet.com/2019/03/19/maximizing-the-
         | new...
        
         | grues-dinner wrote:
         | Once upon a time, 1 pence was one point (I don't recall which
         | supermarket). Now you get 2 Nectar points per pound. I do
         | remember my parents grumbling when it went to 1 point per two
         | pence.
         | 
         | The supermarkets have gotten wise to people realising points
         | and vouchers are scams that almost never pay out substantially
         | and have instead started punishment pricing for people who
         | don't opt into data collection, sorry, loyalty cards.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >The supermarkets have gotten wise to people realising points
           | and vouchers are scams that almost never pay out
           | substantially for loyalty
           | 
           | It's called a "loyalty" program but there was hardly any
           | "loyalty" to begin with. The points basically translate into
           | a discount of <1%, and you get them whether you hop between
           | stores for the best deal, or only shop at their place. The
           | best way of thinking of them is a price discrimination scheme
           | to rope in price-conscious shoppers.
           | 
           | >and have instead started punishment pricing for people who
           | don't opt into data collection, sorry, loyalty cards.
           | 
           | From a numeric perspective the two are identical.
        
             | grues-dinner wrote:
             | I often think of them as a tax on people who don't want to
             | carefully tailor their shopping to line up with shifting
             | "deals" across supermarket chains and over time and those
             | who don't have enough storage-times-consumption to benefit
             | from buy-n-get-one-free on kilo packs of margarine.
             | 
             | I don't think they are _identical_ as such, because my
             | impression is that points would not routinely exceed 5% of
             | your overall shopping unless you got lucky or shopped very
             | carefully, but these days  "savings" from avoiding the
             | punishment price regularly accounts for 5-10 pounds out of
             | 100 pounds of shopping. Though maybe more people use the
             | cards now to avoid it so it does average out.
        
       | grues-dinner wrote:
       | One more step in the long road forecast by the prophet Stross to
       | singularity via deconstructing the solar system for computronium
       | in which to run financial transactions.
        
       | gruez wrote:
       | The first section of the article is riddled with errors or
       | misleading statements that it's hard to take the rest of it
       | seriously.
       | 
       | >Starbucks holds nearly $2 billion of customers' money in its
       | rewards program. That's more than the total deposits managed by
       | 85 percent of chartered banks, making the coffee chain one of the
       | biggest financial institutions in the country.
       | 
       | Only in the sense that the US has thousands of banks, most of
       | which are tiny. According to https://www.mx.com/blog/biggest-us-
       | banks-by-deposits/, there are 4462 banks in the US. Starbuck's
       | "nearly 2 billion" makes them so small it's not even in the top
       | 250. You'd really have to stretch the truth to call that "one of
       | the biggest financial institutions".
       | 
       | >More Americans than ever are in debt to their nearby grocery
       | store due to predatory "buy now, pay later" loans offered during
       | checkout.
       | 
       | >And if you can't pay your rent on time, it could soon become
       | common for your apartment building owner to lend you the money,
       | putting you in debt to your landlord.
       | 
       | As others have mentioned, the debt is issued by the BNPL
       | provider, not the grocery store or landlord. The article makes no
       | effort to argue how it's any different than credit cards.
       | 
       | Skimming the rest of the sections, it's unclear what author
       | actually wants. The article starts off lamenting how high of a
       | margin payments networks have, but then lambasts challengers for
       | setting up networks try to disrupt them.
        
       | pants2 wrote:
       | With high treasury yields, earning money on held cash is a big
       | business. Starbucks' $2b of rewards holdings makes them ~$100M /
       | yr!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-10-07 23:01 UTC)