[HN Gopher] The murky economics of the data-centre investment boom
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       The murky economics of the data-centre investment boom
        
       Author : 1vuio0pswjnm7
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2025-10-07 18:52 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
        
       | rzk wrote:
       | https://archive.is/5CY26
        
       | dgfitz wrote:
       | Sure seems like a combination of TINA and massive amounts of
       | hope.
        
       | jjcm wrote:
       | It's a long-term gamble but a short-term win.
       | 
       | In almost all scenarios, a setup with this incentive structure
       | will lead to massive adoption. It's too tempting, and with most
       | jobs / political positions being short term (<5yrs) ones, people
       | optimize for their time in that timeframe, not longer.
       | 
       | Boards will pursue stock buybacks (short term growth, long term
       | may cause trouble if there's a downturn), banks will lend out
       | subprime mortgages (hit your sales numbers in the short term, at
       | the cost of long term risk), etc etc.
       | 
       | This situation is no different. There's money flowing in and
       | there's less red tape since everyone is being pressured to allow
       | it. It might work out in the long term, it might not, but it will
       | 100% benefit those who push it in the short term. People will get
       | promoted for driving a new data center, politicians can promote
       | more jobs being added, everybody wins... for now.
       | 
       | The future economic aspect becomes irrelevant when the short term
       | candy is sweet enough.
        
         | jpster wrote:
         | IBGYBG. "I'll be gone, you'll be gone". Infamous email sign-off
         | associated with the run-up to the Great Financial Crisis. Used
         | by Wall Streeters asking analysts to inflate credit ratings for
         | undeserving securities, backed by risky mortgages.
        
       | bdbdkdksk wrote:
       | Ed Zitron writes about this constantly:
       | https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-case-against-generative-ai/
       | 
       | All of the big players - Nvidia, OpenAI, Oracle, Microsoft - are
       | in insane circular financing agreements that would make Enron
       | executives blush.
        
         | neffy wrote:
         | Feedback loops. Always with the feedback loops.
        
         | mclanett wrote:
         | Wow this is quite a rant.
         | 
         | However Zitron seems to have forgotten that Google exists or
         | makes TPUs. He mentions Google only 10 times in the entire
         | article, always in a minor way.
        
       | combyn8tor wrote:
       | Meanwhile in Australia we have a "AI data centre" startup being
       | valued at $1.9 billion and given $330 million to play with,
       | having not built anything yet. It's co-founded by a guy that went
       | to prison for insider trading. His wife is also an investor, who
       | happens to be a prominent Australian influencer. The company
       | previously focused on Bitcoin mining but have pivoted to the AI
       | boom, claiming their cooling systems to be 60% better than
       | competitors. Their first project will kick off soon in the
       | Australian state of Tasmania, where there is nothing much more
       | than sheep and tourists.
       | 
       | https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/firmus-raises-3...
        
         | pkaye wrote:
         | Is there a lot of power generation in Tasmania? That is the
         | main criteria for AI data centers from what I heard. Latency is
         | less critical than cost of power.
        
           | matt_daemon wrote:
           | Plenty of power and it's almost always renewable: https://exp
           | lore.openelectricity.org.au/energy/tas1/?range=7d...
           | 
           | There's also plenty more there than sheep and tourists (and
           | not really that many of those)
        
             | decimalenough wrote:
             | There's pretty national parks, convict history and some
             | pretty tasty whiskeys and wines, but not a whole lot of
             | reasons to build a data centre. The power argument isn't
             | particularly compelling either, because it's much more
             | sunny on the Australian mainland.
        
         | bdangubic wrote:
         | > where there is nothing much more than sheep and tourists
         | 
         | kind of like Mississippi but without the tourists part
        
           | greenie_beans wrote:
           | people have the weirdest/wrong perceptions of mississippi
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | It's more like "it's like the US, but without the
             | education"
        
               | greenie_beans wrote:
               | punching down on a state you don't understand or know
               | anything about is such a overdone trope. at least be
               | funny!
        
               | cowboylowrez wrote:
               | ok how bout this, its all relative except for
               | mississippi, there's too much going on between relatives
               | there.
               | 
               | get it? hahahaha
        
             | quickthrowman wrote:
             | When you come in dead last (or in the bottom 5 states) in
             | virtually every possible positive metric, people are going
             | to make negative assumptions. I understand the historical
             | reasons for that, but it doesn't change what it is.
        
               | greenie_beans wrote:
               | fair enough, but their assumption wasn't even about that.
               | a better joke on that quote would've been about vermont.
               | 
               | i hear people online punch down on mississippi all the
               | time, and often they don't know anything about the state
               | except whatever metric they've heard about from a
               | headline. the rest of america isn't very far behind, and
               | if you think the state of mississippi isn't a product of
               | america as a whole then you are extremely mistaken.
               | without the industrialized north you have no plantation
               | economy and without the civil war you have no "dead last
               | (or in the bottom 5 states) in virtually every possible
               | positive metric."
               | 
               | i grew up there, attended public school all the way
               | through my BA, and then spent significant time as a young
               | adult there. based on the stereotypical assumptions, it
               | might be shocking to the big brains on hacker news that
               | somebody from mississippi is an audience of this website.
        
               | sukhdeeppravish wrote:
               | True. As an AI engineer from Gurajatar, Uttar Pradesh I
               | can relate to your experience in this auspicious website
               | sir. We are top human capital.
        
               | quickthrowman wrote:
               | > i hear people online punch down on mississippi all the
               | time, and often they don't know anything about the state
               | except whatever metric they've heard about from a
               | headline. the rest of america isn't very far behind, and
               | if you think the state of mississippi isn't a product of
               | america as a whole then you are extremely mistaken.
               | 
               | Agreed, people usually just say 'lol MS is full of
               | idiots, they're bad at school' instead of taking the time
               | to understand why. It was more isolated than GA and LA
               | (and AL), there was a higher ratio of slaves to freedmen
               | in the antebellum period, the Delta was undeveloped so
               | lots of impoverished people from across the south moved
               | there to try and develop the land, to name a few reasons.
               | 
               | > i grew up there, attended public school all the way
               | through my BA, and then spent significant time as a young
               | adult there. based on the stereotypical assumptions, it
               | might be shocking to somebody on hacker news that
               | somebody on a similar enough intelligence level to be an
               | audience of this website is from mississippi.
               | 
               | I can say that I don't assume everyone from Mississippi
               | is stupid, but the generalization about Mississippi that
               | you related seems to be more common than it should be. I
               | think a lot of it has to do with a lack of exposure to
               | people from Mississippi or Mississippi itself.
               | 
               | Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate the
               | discussion.
        
         | Hansappreciator wrote:
         | Signs of a bubble in this sector are everywhere. OpenAI is
         | trying to fundraise a $5tn infrastructure buildout on $15bn in
         | annual revenue. That's insane.
         | 
         | What's worse is that OpenAI and the other AI companies are all
         | intertwined. The chipmakers are invested in the datacenter
         | operators are invested in the software guys. When the bubble
         | implodes - and it will implode - the good will go down with the
         | bad, and that's what makes a financial crash a true crash.
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | The AMD/OpenAI deal sounded like the music stopping to me.
        
         | theteapot wrote:
         | Tasmania doesn't do much sheep farming. They are more into
         | salmon. Maybe you were make a derogatory reference to the local
         | human population? Fair enough.
        
       | kelp6063 wrote:
       | Unless the AI industry can figure out how to be profitable soon
       | (to which basically nobody has a clear path to profitability
       | besides maybe ad revenue) it's hard to see this not blowing up in
       | a year or two. The bills for all of this are going to come due
       | eventually and the AI CEOs can only convince investors to keep
       | letting them burn billions for so long.
        
       | mwkaufma wrote:
       | >> Cheerleaders such as Sam Altman, OpenAI's boss, argue that the
       | risks of underbuilding are at least as serious as those of
       | overbuilding, because of the long-term economic potential of
       | generative AI.
       | 
       | Pure hucksterism.
        
       | kgwgk wrote:
       | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-10-07/oracle-si...
       | 
       | Oracle Sinks on Report Its Cloud Margins Are Lower Than Expected
       | 
       | Jeran Wittenstein October 7, 2025 at 6:06 PM GMT+2
       | 
       | Oracle Corp. shares tumbled after a report that the software
       | maker's profit margin in its cloud computing business is lower
       | than many on Wall Street have been estimating.
       | 
       | While Oracle generated roughly $900 million in revenue from the
       | rental of servers powered by Nvidia Corp. chips during the three
       | months ended in August, the company only managed about $125
       | million in gross profit, the Information reported, citing
       | internal corporate documents.
        
       | dnw wrote:
       | I wonder how much of this round tripping is because there are
       | only a few companies that have the demands and can meet those
       | demands...
        
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       (page generated 2025-10-07 23:00 UTC)