[HN Gopher] AMD signs AI chip-supply deal with OpenAI, gives it ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       AMD signs AI chip-supply deal with OpenAI, gives it option to take
       a 10% stake
        
       Author : chillax
       Score  : 355 points
       Date   : 2025-10-06 12:17 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | robotswantdata wrote:
       | Infinite money glitch
        
       | BoredPositron wrote:
       | I wonder what we will do with all that compute if no one is going
       | to use it...even if we achieve AGI it won't run on this
       | generation of hardware. Are we just gonna brute force
       | architectures or wtf is going on?
        
         | grim_io wrote:
         | Cheap cloud gaming.
         | 
         | Those GPU's will finally push pixels again :)
        
           | krige wrote:
           | Cloud gaming sucks due to latency, not price.
        
             | LogicFailsMe wrote:
             | Which is something we already knew a decade ago.
             | 
             | Just like we knew self-driving AIs are not reliable.
             | 
             | The magical thinking was assuming they would just get
             | better.
        
             | ptsneves wrote:
             | Played forza motorsport 5 on xbox cloud gaming and could
             | not notice it. Of course I am the most non-serious player
             | ever, but I really tried to notice, and for my standards it
             | was fine.
        
               | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
               | maybe I'm just over sensitive to it, but I can't even
               | stand playing when the tv isn't on game mode. can't
               | imagine waiting for controller input to make a server
               | roundtrip
        
             | admaiora wrote:
             | Not even an issue anymore. I have no issue playing FPS
             | games like call of duty multiplayer via GeForce Now and can
             | be decently competitive. I do live close to the servers
             | though.
        
             | TiredOfLife wrote:
             | Cloud gaming can have lower latency than local consoles.
             | https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-geforce-now-
             | rt...
        
           | palmotea wrote:
           | > Cheap cloud gaming.
           | 
           | > Those GPU's will finally push pixels again :)
           | 
           | Have they ever? I wonder if, say, an H100 even supports
           | graphics APIs.
        
             | thiago_fm wrote:
             | H100s have certain tradeoffs that makes gaming not as
             | energy efficient.
             | 
             | Funnily enough, H100s are already old hardware, and soon
             | will all get fully depreciated.
             | 
             | Billions and billions of depreciated assets!
        
           | Havoc wrote:
           | They won't. High end AI GPUs get stomped by mid tier gaming
           | GPUs on pixels
           | 
           | There will definitely be takers though. Can see scientific
           | community for example loving some cheap GPUs
        
         | nharada wrote:
         | I assume there's at least one generation of re-sale value.
         | There's a lot of smaller companies that could use GPU capacity
         | and would if it was cheaper. I wonder how the math works out
         | though -- are power requirements such that the actual costs
         | aren't worth it? How long before the chips just get thrown
         | away?
        
       | didntknowyou wrote:
       | they're just printing money for each other at this point
        
         | alberth wrote:
         | Some refer to it as "circular financing".
         | 
         | It's "seller financing" but to a degree we've never seen before
         | in an industry (which create these "circular" effects).
         | 
         | There's a good HN thread from 2-days ago on this subject (200+
         | comments).
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45473033
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | What a mess. When they have to write about how "circular
           | financing" became highly regulated in the future, I hope they
           | know that the problem was not confusing in the big picture.
           | 
           | Maybe I can get quoted in a sidebar:
           | 
           | "Hey Econ students, we normal people could see that the AI
           | market was extremely gamed. We can see the investment
           | feedback loop. It is just that the organizations continuing
           | it have control over so much money, they don't have to stop
           | and ask society in general for permission to continue. Really
           | this is a symptom of the wealth inequality crisis that they
           | covered chapter..."
        
             | tjwebbnorfolk wrote:
             | This method of financing is not novel. But anytime you see
             | an unnecessarily complex deal like this, one should think
             | very carefully about why they didn't opt for a simpler
             | method, e.g. simply selling stock in the open market.
             | 
             | The reasoning behind such a deal are usually not a good
             | sign for the underlying health of the companies involved.
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | I'm assuming this is what you mean by 'simply selling
               | stock in the open market' so correct me if I'm wrong but
               | Why would Open AI go public when they can raise so much
               | private money they're valued at 500B ?
               | 
               | It certainly wouldn't be for fear of a lack of
               | investment. AMD is up 30% from this announcement alone.
        
               | graeme wrote:
               | Openai can't go public at present. They have an irregular
               | non profit structure. They've been negotiating with
               | Microsoft but can't convert out of their current
               | structure without getting a new deal from Microsoft
               | accepting the conversion.
        
           | DebtDeflation wrote:
           | Oh, we saw it before. 1998-2000. Cisco, Sun, et al,
           | "investing" in the dotcoms so those dotcoms could turn around
           | and use the funds to buy servers and routers from them.
        
             | hmm37 wrote:
             | It's the opposite here. It's as if the dotcom is investing
             | into Cisco and Sun, so that it can buy servers and routers
             | from them.
        
               | DebtDeflation wrote:
               | Not really. This is AMD investing in OpenAI (albeit in an
               | unusual way, with stock options) not the reverse. Same as
               | the Nvidia deal. Same as hyperscaler investment in OpenAI
               | and Anthropic. The people selling stuff to the AI Labs
               | are the same ones funding them.
        
               | didibus wrote:
               | I can't figure who is actually investing in who?
               | 
               | OpenAI may own 10% of AMD, and that seems like OpenAI
               | investing in AMD in exchange for buying 6GW of GPUs and
               | 160million in stock.
        
               | DebtDeflation wrote:
               | OpenAI isn't giving AMD money to get AMD stock. AMD is
               | giving OpenAI its stock (in the form of a call option
               | with a $0.01 strike).
        
               | didibus wrote:
               | I understood it as, OpenAI is giving AMD money, by buying
               | 6GW of GPUs from them.
               | 
               | But if it results in their stock reaching 600$, then AMD
               | will give back the money that OpenAI spent on GPUs as 10%
               | stock options into AMD.
               | 
               | Which sounds like, no one is really investing in each
               | other, they're both like exchanging money back and forth,
               | where both hope to gain some extra money by propping up
               | the AMD stock with the announcement, hoping it helps make
               | AMD more competitive on the GPU landscape.
               | 
               | Did I get it right?
        
           | lvl155 wrote:
           | Nvidia owns a piece of OAI, and now Nvidia would own a piece
           | of AMD. I am just waiting for Samsung type of circular
           | ownership structures here in the US.
        
           | jpadkins wrote:
           | The real, sustained value creation for AMD is if their GPUs
           | can be competitive with Nvidia for inference or training. The
           | market is currently betting that AMD will get that
           | "spillover" effect from working with OpenAI to get their
           | chips + software in a state that openAI can use at scale.
           | 
           | So day 1 valuation is mostly hype, but that hype may
           | translate into real value later.
        
         | tesdinger wrote:
         | No it is not printing money. Shares are not money.
        
         | melenaboija wrote:
         | The good part is that the next financial crisis when OpenAI
         | sinks probably won't be a systemic one, it will definitely drag
         | others down and the stock market will readjust, but hopefully
         | the US economy will remain afloat
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | Can you explain why you think that is? The SP500 has never
           | been more top heavy and when those 7 or so all AI associated
           | incest stocks falter I can't see anyway it's not going to be
           | a bloodbath of the decade long type.
        
             | melenaboija wrote:
             | I don't know, just intuition. Each crisis is different and
             | impossible to predict, otherwise I'd be retired, which I'm
             | not.
             | 
             | Completely agree, I'd expect all of those to take a big
             | hit, and some more than others, but I don't think Microsoft
             | or Google would disappear. As for the SP issue, if this
             | trend continues, people might start seeing the SP as the
             | opposite of diversification (at least in the stocks market
             | sense) and will have to start looking for something else.
             | 
             | BTW, I'm almost an all-in SP investor myself so I'll have
             | to navigate that dip too, lol
        
             | Theodores wrote:
             | With some booms you have something to show for it, for
             | example, a railway network. With others, such as tulips,
             | there is nothing to show.
             | 
             | After the predicted bloodbath, do we get some
             | infrastructure and products worth keeping at the end of it?
             | If so, does that mean the system can limp on, after even
             | more money has printed, or do we get to another big fork in
             | the road where systematic change is required?
        
       | cluckindan wrote:
       | Great: once the bubble pops, all camps will suffer.
        
       | randomname4325 wrote:
       | The bubble pops when Apple releases an iPhone that runs a good
       | enough for most things LLM locally. At that point cloud hardware
       | investments will plateau (unless some new GPU melting use case
       | comes out). Investors will move from nvidia, AMD into Apple.
        
         | aswegs8 wrote:
         | What's the advantage of that, exactly? Why would you want
         | something very compute intensive run on your phone instead of
         | just using an API to data centers with great economy of scale?
        
           | randomname4325 wrote:
           | My assumption is that most users won't actually care if the
           | LLM is in the cloud or device. That said, quite a few folks
           | have iPhones and Apple's only way into the AI race is to go
           | to it's strength, 1B+ hardware devices that they design the
           | silicon for. They will produce a phone that runs a local LLM
           | and market it as private and secure. People upgrade every
           | couple of years (lose or breaks) so this will drive adoption.
           | I'm not saying people will vibe code on their iphones.
        
           | lelanthran wrote:
           | Price, for one. I don't mind running a local model at half
           | the speed if all it costs is electricity.
           | 
           | A local model basically allows me to experiment with running
           | an agent 24x7, 365 days a year with continuous prompting.
           | 
           | SaaS won't be able to match that.
        
         | kcb wrote:
         | What's the benefit to running LLMs locally? Data is already
         | remote, LLM inferencing isn't particularly constrained by
         | Internet latency. So you get worse models, performance, and
         | battery life. Local compute on a power constrained mobile
         | device is required for applications that require low latency or
         | significant data throughput and LLM inferencing is neither.
        
           | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
           | > What's the benefit to running LLMs locally?
           | 
           | At work:
           | 
           | That I don't rent $30,000 a month of PTUs from Microsoft.
           | That I can put more restricted data classifications into it.
           | 
           | > LLM inferencing isn't particularly constrained by Internet
           | latency
           | 
           | But user experience is
        
             | kcb wrote:
             | 30k in a month is an enormous amount of tokens with Claude
             | through AWS Bedrock. And companies already commonly trust
             | AWS with their most sensitive data.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | The data you need is mostly not remote. A friend works at a
           | software development company, they can use LLMs, but only
           | local ones (local as in their datacenter) and it can only be
           | trained on their code base). Customer service LLMs need to be
           | trained on in-house material, not generic Internet sources.
           | 
           | The general advantage is that you know that you're not
           | leaking information, because there's nowhere to leak it to.
           | You know the exact input, because you provided it. You also
           | get the benefit of being able to have on device encryption,
           | the data is no good in the datacenter if it's encrypted.
        
             | kcb wrote:
             | Local as in datacenter is the key there. The original
             | comment was about end user devices.
        
         | jeswin wrote:
         | As a local LLM enthusiast, I can tell you that it's useless for
         | most real work - even on desktop form factors. Phones catching
         | up is ever farther out.
        
           | randomname4325 wrote:
           | Based on the recently released graph of how people are using
           | chatgpt. ~80% of use cases (practical guidance, seeking
           | information, writing) could presumably run on a local model.
        
             | stri8ted wrote:
             | For video use cases, which will become increasingly
             | popular, we are a long ways away.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | Wan runs on local GPUs and looks amazing.
               | 
               | Sora 2 takes a lot of visual shortcuts. The innovation is
               | how it does the story planning, vocals, music, and
               | lipsync.
               | 
               | We'll have that locally in 6 months.
        
         | baq wrote:
         | that's... some years... from now
        
         | simianwords wrote:
         | why do you think LLM's will get good enough that they can run
         | locally but the ones requiring nvidia GPU's will not get
         | better?
        
           | vachina wrote:
           | ok, you can technically upload all your photos to Google
           | cloud for all the same semantic labeling features as iOS
           | Photos app, but having local, always available and fast local
           | inferencing is arguably more useful and valuable to the end
           | user.
        
           | nerdix wrote:
           | The models running on $50k GPUs will get better but the
           | models running on commodity hardware will hit an inflection
           | point where they are good enough for most use cases.
           | 
           | If I had to guess I would say that's probably 10 or 15 years
           | away for desktop class hardware and longer for mobile (maybe
           | another 10 years).
           | 
           | Maybe the frontier models of 2040 are being used for more
           | advanced things like medical research and not generating CRUD
           | apps or photos of kittens. That would mean that the average
           | person is likely using the commodity models that are either
           | free or extremely cheap to use.
        
         | TiredOfLife wrote:
         | The new iPhones barely got 12gb of ram. The way Apple is going
         | iPhones will have enough ram for llms in about 100 years
        
           | vachina wrote:
           | Trying to compare RAM size and CPU cores is so yesterday.
           | Apple owns the entire stack they can make anything fit into
           | their core if they so desire.
        
         | whitehexagon wrote:
         | Or just a mini configured default 128GB or 256GB.
         | 
         | I've been using Qwen3:32b on a 32GB M1 (asahi) and it does most
         | of what I need, albeit a bit slow, but not slow enough that I'd
         | pay monthly for remote ad delivery.
         | 
         | I suspect this huge splurge of hardware spending is partially
         | an attempt to starve the market of cheap RAM and thus limit
         | companies releasing 128GB/256GB standalone LLM boxes.
        
       | theli0nheart wrote:
       | > _As part of the arrangement, AMD issued a warrant that gives
       | OpenAI the ability to buy up to 160 million shares of AMD for 1
       | cent each over the course of the chips deal. The warrant vests in
       | tranches based on milestones that the two companies have agreed
       | on._
       | 
       | This is money printing, just in the private sector. We know what
       | happens when governments do it, and it's not good.
        
         | john-h-k wrote:
         | It's quite specifically _not_ money printing, because it's
         | backed by something.
         | 
         | It could be bad sure but it's not money printing
        
           | theli0nheart wrote:
           | Backed by what?
        
             | kaptainscarlet wrote:
             | Compute resources.
        
               | w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote:
               | So like Bitcoin?
        
               | denismenace wrote:
               | Not the same, since if you buy Bitcoin, you don't have
               | partial ownership of the machines used to mine and also
               | these machines being used for a singular purpose which
               | you cannot change.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | And high end networking gear will always have a buyer,
               | right Nortel?
        
               | dsr_ wrote:
               | Lucent agrees: even used, the product will retain 90% of
               | list price because the market has an infinite number of
               | VC-backed buyers.
        
               | rvba wrote:
               | It is backed by AMD stockholders, whose stock just got
               | diluted.
               | 
               | It's like in that movie "Social network"
        
             | aurareturn wrote:
             | Ownership in a company.
        
           | SecretDreams wrote:
           | > because it's backed by something
           | 
           | If I finance a car backed by hopes and dreams, I'd be driving
           | real good.
        
           | fauigerzigerk wrote:
           | You're right. It's not really money printing, at least not
           | directly. Only banks can print money.
           | 
           | What these recent deals do is inflate asset prices by making
           | (future) revenues appear higher or perhaps just more certain
           | than they really are.
           | 
           | Assets can be used as collateral for loans. If someone were
           | to use their AMD shares as collateral for a loan at a
           | commercial bank (not a margin loan), that would be money
           | printing and you could print more of it today than before the
           | deal was announced.
        
         | diego_sandoval wrote:
         | I'm very ignorant, will AMD shares get diluted? or how is it
         | money printing?
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | It isn't printing money (money supply was not increased, and
           | no one has access to more money due to the contract signed
           | between the two parties), but I assume it makes the poster
           | feel good to be outraged and express it by writing something
           | like that.
        
             | theli0nheart wrote:
             | AMD's valuation increased by over 30% this morning, so to
             | say no one has access to more money because of this news is
             | untrue.
             | 
             | I'm not outraged at all, I just think this sort of bizarre
             | financial engineering is not a good sign. If the ROI was so
             | obvious, why not, for example, simply issue bonds and buy
             | AMD stock on the open market?
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I wrote:
               | 
               | > and no one has access to more money due to the contract
               | signed between the two parties
               | 
               | If a third party decides to pay a higher price for a
               | publicly listed share because of the news of this
               | contract, that is not printing money. The buyer of the
               | shares loses money, the seller gains it, for a net change
               | of zero in money supply.
        
               | rchaud wrote:
               | If OAI issued bonds, they'd be carrying all the risk.
               | With these deals with Microsoft, Nvidia and now AMD,
               | they're shifting some of that risk to powerful players in
               | the "too big to let fail" category.
        
               | theli0nheart wrote:
               | Well, yeah, that's exactly my point. OpenAI is not
               | issuing bonds because these transactions are way riskier
               | than people are willing to admit.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Who is "people"? Investors and people familiar with
               | finance are well aware of the deal and its risks, as they
               | are public information.
        
               | theli0nheart wrote:
               | Do you recall what "people familiar with finance" did
               | with CDOs and mortgage-backed securities during the
               | financial crisis? That didn't work out so well either,
               | despite all parties being aware of the risks.
               | 
               | It bears repeating my original question: if the risks are
               | so minor, why is OpenAI simply not issuing bonds and
               | buying AMD stock with the proceeds?
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I didn't claim the risks are minor, I am just arguing
               | against the notion of it being "printing money", as if
               | they have the powers of the Treasury.
               | 
               | > Do you recall what "people familiar with finance" did
               | with CDOs and mortgage-backed securities during the
               | financial crisis? That didn't work out so well either,
               | despite all parties being aware of the risks.
               | 
               | There was straight up fraud involved in the underwriting
               | for the mortgages where verification (or rather
               | underwriting itself) was not being done.
               | 
               | This deal is a transparent bet on an outcome with no
               | deceived party.
        
               | rhetocj23 wrote:
               | Indeed. Youre one of the few posters ive seen on here
               | that gets it.
        
           | tesdinger wrote:
           | It is dilution. 160 million shares of AMD for 1 cent will be
           | added. The idea is that the value increase of the remaining
           | shares enabled by the OpenAI cooperation will be stronger
           | than the decrease caused by dilution.
        
           | N70Phone wrote:
           | AMD issues new shares and gets a penny (read: effectively
           | zero) back for them.
           | 
           |  _ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL_ this means everyone holding AMD has
           | 10% of their equity /value taken away and handed to OpenAI.
           | 
           | But all else is not equal. OpenAI only gets the shares if
           | they buy AMD GPUs. The intent is that this offsets the
           | dilution by making AMD overall more valuable. (This is why
           | the stock price jumped on the announcement) It's a GPU
           | subsidy paid for by AMD's shareholders rather than AMD
           | itself.
           | 
           | The real risk is that this further entangles AMD in the AI
           | bubble. OpenAI already has enormous datacenter construction
           | obligations. The likelihood of them failing to meet these new
           | obligations, and thus this deal falling through or otherwise
           | not materialising, is pretty high. If the AI bubble goes
           | *POP*, AMD will be hurting a lot more than before this deal.
        
             | dist-epoch wrote:
             | > ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL this means everyone holding AMD has
             | 10% of their equity/value taken away and handed to OpenAI.
             | 
             | But the stock is up 30% on the news. So lose 10%, but gain
             | 30%, so net 20% beneficial to equity holders?
        
               | N70Phone wrote:
               | Percentage math doesn't quite work that way. (130% * 90%
               | for gaining 30% and then giving away 10% of that, is 117%
               | not 120%)
               | 
               | But yes. That's the _intent_.
               | 
               | The "problem" is that OpenAI doesn't have any of the
               | shares yet, and it's unclear how much they actually will
               | get. Right now AMD shareholders have the full +30% gain
               | with none of the loss. But will the +30% gain be wiped
               | out on the news OpenAI won't be buying as many AMD GPUs?
               | Only time can tell.
        
               | rchaud wrote:
               | The shares haven't been issued yet, so there isn't any
               | dilution. Equity holders could sell their holdings now
               | and benefit, because when OAI exercises the option and
               | gets 160m shares for peanuts, they will sell those shares
               | ASAP to bring in cash to pay for their orders of AMD
               | chips.
        
         | tesdinger wrote:
         | It's not money printing because shares are not classified as
         | money in economics. Money is used for transactions while shares
         | primary purpose is not transactions.
        
       | nerdix wrote:
       | The title didn't make this obvious (at least not to me) but it's
       | OpenAI that has the option to buy 10% of AMD. Not the other way
       | around.
       | 
       | In case you're wondering how OpenAI could afford to buy 10% of
       | AMD while they are hemorrhaging money -- the terms of the deal
       | allows OpenAI to buy 160 million shares at 1 cents a share.
       | 
       | I could be thinking about this the wrong way but it appears that
       | AMD is basically subsidizing the cost of the GPUs with equity.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Similar to how Microsoft bought out nearly half of OpenAI,
         | though they offered compute credits IIRC. I wonder how much
         | into Microsoft's investment OpenAI is in.
         | 
         | Edit: Apparently what Microsoft owns is 49% profit-sharing
         | interest in OpenAI, specifically in the 'capped profit' for
         | profit subsidiary. So weird, but hey, it's still a slice of the
         | pie. Plus they can exclusively sell access to the models.
        
           | rvba wrote:
           | Microsoft seems to have made a good deal: it got the models
           | AND profits.
           | 
           | Also microsoft is pushing copilot to office and I think it
           | will sell. Since they sell to general B2B and not only to the
           | peogrammer niche.
           | 
           | AMD is trying to buy market share by donating 10% equity. I
           | also think it is crazy
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | Yeah, I heard about when ChatGPT removed I think it was O4?
             | apparently there's an entire community devoted to "role
             | playing" or rather dating a character powered by the model.
             | GPT5 broke their entire relationship. Me and a few friends
             | agreed it might have been worth spinning up a dating GPT O4
             | based service for those people to pay to migrate their AI
             | 'companions' to. Azure still has these "abandoned" models.
             | 
             | On the other note, it also helps OpenAI because they don't
             | have to manage setting up all that infrastructure just to
             | let others use the model.
        
         | yousif_123123 wrote:
         | I think at least part of the 10% is if AMD stock reaches 600.
         | 
         | Not that I disagree that this looks weird. Why was that needed
         | to be offered? Couldn't they just buy the AMD chips if they're
         | good enough? Or Nvidia is it's better?
         | 
         | I also don't get why there commiting so much to the future, are
         | they sure of the quality of the products and their demand that
         | much?
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | >Couldn't they just buy the AMD chips if they're good enough?
           | 
           | OpenAI would presumably need to raise money to buy the AMD
           | chips.
           | 
           | The "genius" of this deal is that AMD is "giving away" 10% of
           | the company (at $0.01/share) to OpenAI. Then OpenAI will
           | presumably turn around and sell those shares (or borrow
           | against them) to raise enough money to purchase the AMD GPUs.
        
             | rhetocj23 wrote:
             | Financing made out of thin air. Hilarious
        
               | lesuorac wrote:
               | Not thin air.
               | 
               | Existing AMD shareholders will have their holding
               | diluted.
               | 
               | Or assuming banks loan them money, if say OpenAI goes
               | under then the banks just lose that money.
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | When the stock goes from $150 to $600 that's not called
               | dilution. Nobody cares about the number of shares in that
               | situation.
        
               | lesuorac wrote:
               | The CEO of Tesla, Elon Musk, was sued over an extremely
               | similar situation. So somebody will care.
               | 
               | That said, this is really about the principal. Sure, if I
               | give you $10 and you give me a hamburger it's not like
               | some illegal transaction. But to say the $10 comes from
               | thin air is wrong. It doesn't come from thin air.
               | 
               | I would bet that if one day OpenAI decided to sell 10% of
               | AMD the stock would crash from $600 to below $150. IIUC,
               | there's 1.6B shares of AMD while only 54M shares trade
               | daily so dumping 160M shares would tank their price [1].
               | If AMD gives OpenAI 10% of the company and OpenAI goes
               | under, it's going to take AMD's share price with it.
               | 
               | [1]: https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/amd
        
               | gowld wrote:
               | What Musk suit are you talking about?
               | 
               | The rest of your comment doesn't make sense.
        
               | lesuorac wrote:
               | His 56 billion pay package [1]. In order for him to
               | receive it the stock would need to increase 13x [2] (the
               | AMD stock increase from 150 to 600 is only 4x). Despite
               | succeeding at doing that, he and Tesla were sued over the
               | pay package.
               | 
               | If OpenAI fails then its going to have to liquidate the
               | company. Selling 160M shares of AMD is going to tank it's
               | price.
               | 
               | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lawsuits_invol
               | ving_Tes...
               | 
               | [2]: https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-
               | new-long-...
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | I think there's a covenant preventing OpenAI from dumping
               | AMD shares on the open market. Obviously AMD's price will
               | move down during the crash but at least the shares will
               | be liquidated in an orderly fashion.
        
               | zerosizedweasle wrote:
               | It's a joke that it is so obvious what they are doing.
        
             | DebtDeflation wrote:
             | It's just round tripping with an extra step or two. AMD
             | giving OpenAI money (via stock options) that they can use
             | to buy AMD chips.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | That "just" is doing a lot of work equivocating stock
               | options with money.
               | 
               | If that were true, there would never be any business that
               | failed.
        
               | zerosizedweasle wrote:
               | It's circular money flows.
        
               | johnnyanmac wrote:
               | Two circular flows now. Nvidia Oracle and OpenAI, and now
               | this loop with OpenAI and AMD.
               | 
               | This really isn't the sign of a healthy economy.
        
               | formerly_proven wrote:
               | These are options with a 99.995% discount (as of this
               | writing) on AMD stock.
        
             | Pet_Ant wrote:
             | It seems to me that there is an aspect of marketing to this
             | deal. Nvidia has the mindshare, so this would help
             | legitimise AMD offerings. This is almost product
             | placement/sponsorship for AMD.
             | 
             | Also, this would battle test AMD's platform and provide
             | enhancements so it's also a beta-testing service.
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | > The "genius" of this deal is that AMD is "giving away"
             | 10% of the company (at $0.01/share) to OpenAI.
             | 
             | There's no giving away of anything in the deal. The $0.01
             | per share price is only available if they purchase the
             | GPUs.
             | 
             | It's more like one of those "free with purchase" deals
             | where you're still paying for the product, but they throw
             | in something to sweeten the deal.
             | 
             | They're not actually getting AMD shares at $0.01 each with
             | no strings attached like many of the comments are assuming.
        
               | AlanYx wrote:
               | Yes, I was being somewhat flippant in my description of
               | the transaction. But the net result of the transaction is
               | the same. OpenAI can finance the GPU purchases by
               | borrowing against the contractual guarantees it received
               | from AMD to receive warrants in exchange for acquiring
               | AMD GPUs. Whether the transaction is partially or
               | entirely financed will depend on AMD's share price
               | movement in the interim.
        
               | kalap_ur wrote:
               | They sign the purchase order on 1/1/26. AMD issues
               | invoice to be paid in 30 days, that is 2/1/26. OpenAI
               | triggers warrant and informs AMD on 1/2/26. OpenAI
               | receives shares on 1/4/26. On 1/5/26 OpenAI and AMD
               | announce the GPU purchase deal. On 1/30/26 OpenAI sells
               | its shares in AMD. From proceeds, OpenAI pays AMD on
               | 2/1/26. Thus, AMD financed OpenAI's GPU purchase via
               | AMD's shares.
        
               | munksbeer wrote:
               | The rest of the world trying to decipher this post
               | because of the date format :headscratch:
        
               | Keyframe wrote:
               | translated, AMD buys GPU from itself and gives them to
               | OpenAI for free. OpenAI gets GPUs for free, AMD hopes the
               | market will reward the deal enough to increase its
               | valuation by more than the dilution cost.
               | 
               | I have to ask - is this even legal? I understand it can
               | be, but somehow it feels wrong. I guess AMD would report
               | revenue of those GPU sale and equity issuance / dilution
               | as part of payment terms, and OpenAI would record
               | hardware purchase expense as well as investment income or
               | maybe capital gain when selling those shares. What makes
               | it legal is probably it all needs to be transparently
               | communicated in time?
        
           | N70Phone wrote:
           | > I also don't get why there commiting so much to the future,
           | are they sure of the quality of the products and their demand
           | that much?
           | 
           | It's one big game of musical chairs, and everyone can hear
           | the phonograph slowing down.
           | 
           | OpenAI is making these desperation plays because they've ran
           | out of hype. GPT-5 "bombed", the wider public doesn't believe
           | AI is going to keep getting exponentially better anymore.
           | They're out of options to generate new hype beyond spewing
           | ever larger numbers into the news cycle.
           | 
           | AMD is making this desperation play because soon, once the AI
           | bubble pops, there'll be a flood of cheap unused GPUs & GPU
           | compute. Nobody's going to be buying their new cards when you
           | can get Nvidia's prior gen for pennies on the dollar.
        
             | CyanLite2 wrote:
             | On the flip side of it (and where most institutional
             | investors are mentally) is that if OpenAI is to ever
             | achieve AGI, it must invest nearly a trillion dollars
             | towards that effort. We all know LLMs have their
             | limitations, but next phase of AI growth is going to come
             | from OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, maybe even Microsoft, and
             | not some stealth startup. E.g., Only Big Tech can get us to
             | AGI due to sheer massive amounts of investments, not a
             | traditional silicon valley garage startup looking for their
             | Series A. So institutional investors have no choice but to
             | continue to throw money into Big Tech hoping for the Big
             | Payoff, rather than investing in VC funds like 10 years
             | ago.
             | 
             | AMD did this deal because it's literally offering financing
             | to them. OpenAI doesn't have access to capital markets like
             | AMD does. So it's selling off shares of its own stock to
             | finance the purchase of billions of dollars worth of GPUs.
             | And the trick appears to be working since the stock is up
             | 30% today, meaning it has paid for itself and then some.
        
               | rhetocj23 wrote:
               | Theres a phrase for this. Financial engineering.
        
               | zerosizedweasle wrote:
               | In other words they are stealing capital from the rest of
               | the economy. Starving it.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | The difference this time is that it's global coordinated
               | collusion, and it's not just the superwealthy, it's
               | states that are willing to go all in on this. If you
               | thought the banks were too big to fail, the result here
               | is going to be a nationalization of AI resources and
               | doubling down.
        
               | jakewins wrote:
               | That "only big tech can solve AGI" bit doesn't make sense
               | to me - the scale argument was made back when people
               | thought just more scale and more training was gonna keep
               | yielding results.
               | 
               | Now it seems clear that what's missing is another
               | architectural leap like transformers, likely many
               | different ones. That could come from almost anywhere? Or
               | what makes this something where big tech is the only
               | potential source of innovation?
        
               | nemomarx wrote:
               | If it comes from anywhere else but it needs a lot of
               | capital to execute, big tech will just acquire them
               | right? They'll have all the data centers and compute
               | contracts locked up I guess.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | Yup. LLMs can get arbitrarily good at anything with RL,
               | but RL produces spiky capabilities, and getting LLMs
               | arbitrarily good at things they're not designed for (like
               | reasoning, which is absolutely stupid to do in natural
               | language) is very expensive due to the domain mismatch
               | (as we're seeing in realtime).
               | 
               | Neurosymbolic architectures are the future, but I think
               | LLMs have a place as orchestrators and translators from
               | natural language -> symbolic representation. I'm working
               | on an article that lays out a pretty strong case for a
               | lot of this based on ~30 studies, hopefully I can tighten
               | it up and publish soon.
        
               | CyanLite2 wrote:
               | The barrier of entry is too high for traditional SV
               | startups or a group of folks with a good research idea
               | like transformers. You now need hundreds of billions if
               | not trillions to get access to compute. OpenAI themselves
               | have cornered 40% of global output of DRAM modules. This
               | isn't like 2012, where you could walk into your local
               | BestBuy, get a laptop, open an AWS account, and start a
               | SaaS over the weekend. Even the AI researchers themselves
               | are commanding 7- and 8-figure salaries that rival NFL
               | players.
               | 
               | At best, they can sell their IP to BigTech, who will then
               | commercialize it.
        
               | jakewins wrote:
               | Sorry I still don't understand.
               | 
               | Are you saying you disagree that a new architectural leap
               | is needed and just more compute for training is enough?
               | Or are you saying a new architectural leap is needed
               | _and_ that or those new architectures will only be
               | possible to train with insane amounts of compute?
               | 
               | If the latter I dont understand how you could know that
               | about an innovation that's not yet been made
        
               | N70Phone wrote:
               | > And the trick appears to be working since the stock is
               | up 30% today, meaning it has paid for itself and then
               | some.
               | 
               | It's a bubble. The tricks keep working until they
               | suddenly don't, and then all the prior tricks unwind
               | themselves.
        
               | chasd00 wrote:
               | no amount of investment is going to make AGI just appear.
               | It's looking more and more like current architectures are
               | a dead end and then it's back to the AI drawing board
               | just like the past 30 years.
        
             | programjames wrote:
             | I find it funny how people say GPT-5 "bombed". I noticed a
             | significant improvement in maths and coding with GPT-5. To
             | quantify were I've found the models useful:
             | 
             | - GPT 3.5: Good for finding reference terms. I could not
             | trust anything it said, but it could help me find some
             | general terms in fields I was unfamiliar with.
             | 
             | - GPT 4: Good for cached, obscure knowledge. I generally
             | could trust the stuff it said to be true, but none of its
             | logic or conclusions.
             | 
             | - GPT 4.5: Good for reference proofs/code. I cannot trust
             | its proofs or code, but I can get a decent outline for
             | writing my own.
             | 
             | - GPT 5: Good for directed thinking. I cannot trust it to
             | come up with the _best_ solution on its own, but if I tell
             | it what I 'm working on, it's pretty decent at using all
             | the tricks in its repertoire (across many fields) to get me
             | a correct solution. I can trust its proofs or code to be
             | about as correct as my own. My main issues are I cannot
             | trust it to point out confusion or ask me, "is this
             | actually the problem we should be solving here?" My guess
             | is this is mostly a byproduct of shallow human feedback,
             | rather than an actual issue with intelligence (as it will
             | often ask me _at the end of spending a bunch of
             | computation_ if I want to try something mildly different).
             | 
             | For me, GPT 5 is way more useful than the previous models,
             | because I don't have a lot of paper-pushing problems I'm
             | trying to solve. My guess is the wider public may disagree
             | because it's hard to tell the difference between something
             | better at the task than you, and something _much better_.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | Gemini 2.5 was the first breakthrough model, people
               | didn't know how to use it but it's incredibly powerful.
               | GPT5 is the second true breakthrough model, it's ability
               | to deal with math/logic/etc complexity and its depth of
               | knowledge in engineering/science is amazing. Every time I
               | talk to someone who stans Claude and is down on GPT5 I
               | know they're building derivative CRUD apps with simple
               | business logic in Python/Typescript.
        
               | N70Phone wrote:
               | > I find it funny how people say GPT-5 "bombed".
               | 
               | I used scare quotes for a reason. It didn't "bomb" in the
               | sense of failing [insert metric], it bombed in the sense
               | that OpenAI needed it to generate exponentially more hype
               | and it just didn't. (And on a lesser level, GPT-5 was
               | supposed to cut OpenAI's costs but has failed to do so)
               | 
               | > I can trust its proofs or code to be about as correct
               | as my own.
               | 
               | I have little to say about this, as I find such claims to
               | be broadly irreplicable. GPT-5 scores better on the
               | metrics, but still has the same "classes" of faults.
        
           | alberth wrote:
           | > allows OpenAI to buy 160 million shares at 1 cents a share.
           | 
           | > I think at least part of the 10% is if AMD stock reaches
           | 600.
           | 
           | AMD market cap today is $350B (at $200/share).
           | 
           | AMD would need to 3x their market cap ($1,000B) to be at
           | $600/share.
           | 
           | Which would mean that OpenAI could gain _$100B_ in AMD stock,
           | for the minuscule cost of only $1.6 million (160 million
           | shares at 1 cent each).
           | 
           | --
           | 
           | Sam is spinning the world on his finger tip with these deals
           | he's crafting.
        
             | SirMaster wrote:
             | Is there any real reason AMDs market cap can't be close to
             | what Nvidia's is? Or like even half of what Nvidia's is?
        
               | dbbr wrote:
               | My uneducated one word answer: CUDA.
        
               | alwahi wrote:
               | if your castle had a moat like CUDA....
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | CUDA isn't even a moat for inference, only for training.
        
               | jakogut wrote:
               | How's Microsoft's Direct3D moat working out for them now?
               | It's turned out to have been much less of a moat than it
               | once was. Triple-A titles that are developed for Windows
               | using Direct3D 12 are getting support on Linux through
               | Proton within days of release, or even at launch
               | sometimes.
        
               | preisschild wrote:
               | Could quickly change if open alternatives were suddenly
               | more popular or with stuff like ZLUDA
               | 
               | https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA
        
               | blihp wrote:
               | Try to use AMD GPU's for AI and you'll understand. Unless
               | you have lots of your own engineers to throw at making
               | their stuff work, it's easier for most companies just to
               | keep throwing money nVidia's way.
        
               | SirMaster wrote:
               | I understand that it's that way today. But I am talking
               | about "potential". If OpenAI and AMD engineers get their
               | heads together and make some new software etc, couldn't
               | AMD in theory become as valuable as Nvidia or at least
               | half as valuable?
               | 
               | It seems like to take a 350M market cap company to 2B+ or
               | a 6x+ increase in stock price would be worth doing for a
               | few hundred million dollar investment in software and
               | such?
        
               | resters wrote:
               | There is not. AMD didn't invest in tooling and
               | interconnect technology the way Nvidia has, probably
               | because of antitrust fears (or maybe mismanagement). But
               | in terms of core GPU technology and fab, AMD is close to
               | being a peer.
               | 
               | I've been saying this for several years now and it seems
               | that someone finally listened :)
        
             | lucianbr wrote:
             | What is AMD getting that's worth giving OpenAI $100B? Sure,
             | they're giving it from other stockholders not from their
             | pocket, but still. It's presumably a lot of value, there
             | has to be a good reason, no?
             | 
             | Is it that Sam promises to somehow make AMD increase their
             | market cap, or help at least?
        
               | delusional wrote:
               | > What is AMD getting that's worth giving OpenAI $100B?
               | 
               | The other $300B
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | Where is this other $300B coming from? Is OpenAI paying
               | AMD $400B or what? I looked at the article but it seems
               | disjointed and hard to parse for me. And I don't see
               | where it mentions some $400B coming to AMD one way or
               | another. It's implied... how?
               | 
               | Sorry, this isn't sarcasm or anything like it. I just
               | don't get it and your answer does not help.
        
               | jerf wrote:
               | You have put your finger on the AI bubble's biggest
               | problem right now. Companies are making promises that
               | they are currently completely incapable of fulfilling, in
               | the hopes that someday they can, and the stock market are
               | valuating these promises as done deals.
               | 
               | Predicting the end of bubbles is well known to be a
               | fool's errand, but if this AI bubble is still going in a
               | year I can only imagine how casually these companies will
               | have to be throwing around multi-trillion dollar promises
               | to each other to keep the stocks pumped up.
        
               | chasd00 wrote:
               | > Companies are making promises that they are currently
               | completely incapable of fulfilling, in the hopes that
               | someday they can, and the stock market are valuating
               | these promises as done deals.
               | 
               | That reminds me a lot of Enron. As long as the stock
               | keeps going up everything is fine but when it does t
               | everything comes crashing down.
        
               | delusional wrote:
               | The traditional "efficient market" theory would be:
               | synergies. The market believes that AMDs value increased
               | BECUASE OpenAI now owns it. That is to say, the market
               | believes that OpenAI taking a stake in AMD increases the
               | value of AMD.
               | 
               | There are a host of different hypothesis you could pose
               | to explain that. Maybe OpenAI has some secret sauce
               | they'll share with AMD now that they have a stake. Maybe
               | OpenAI will be more likely to buy from AMD in the future.
               | Maybe AMD can use the experience they get serving OpenAI
               | to better their products. Heck, maybe OpenAI will pump
               | the stock by having Sam Altman talk about it on some
               | podcasts.
               | 
               | It's impossible to disentangle all of those theories,
               | because different investors will have different beliefs
               | and you only get an aggregate.
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | Thanks for explaining.
               | 
               | Imho AMD itself needs to have a theory, which underpins
               | their signing of the deal. For my clueless self, that
               | investors have various theories and we don't know what
               | they are is ok-ish, but that AMD has a theory but keeps
               | it secret yet it gets the result of stock rise... is
               | fishy.
               | 
               | Everyone is going in circles making suppositions and
               | estimations based on who knows what. That can't be
               | healty, can it? There used to be requirements that
               | publicly listed companies act with some level of
               | transparency, and those requirements existed for a
               | reason. I guess. I am certainly no expert in finance.
        
               | delusional wrote:
               | > but that AMD has a theory but keeps it secret yet it
               | gets the result of stock rise... is fishy.
               | 
               | It's not secret at all. Companies announcing a deal like
               | this usually include some PR material alongside it [1].
               | In this one, the quote is:                   "Our
               | partnership with OpenAI is expected to deliver tens of
               | billions of dollars in revenue for AMD while accelerating
               | OpenAI's AI infrastructure buildout," said Jean Hu, EVP,
               | CFO and treasurer, AMD. "This agreement creates
               | significant strategic alignment and shareholder value for
               | both AMD and OpenAI and is expected to be highly
               | accretive to AMD's non-GAAP earnings-per-share."
               | 
               | "significant strategic alignment", "shareholder value",
               | and "billions of dollars in revenue" are all things that
               | should be expected to move the market cap. The "tens of
               | billions in revenue" would generate upwards of 100
               | billion in market cap alone, assuming AMD's current
               | multiple.
               | 
               | [1]: https://www.amd.com/en/newsroom/press-
               | releases/2025-10-6-amd...
        
               | didibus wrote:
               | I think the idea is that, OpenAI using AMD GPUs will help
               | AMD become competitive against Nvidia in the AI space. If
               | OpenAI is able to use them for their models, other
               | companies will see AMD as a legitimate option and might
               | switch to AMD for GPUs as well.
               | 
               | This would be where AMD is to gain new money.
               | 
               | OpenAI also has to gain, if it means access to more GPUs
               | allows it to compete and be the winner of the LLM race.
               | As the winner of the race, it would make new money, but
               | also likely need to spend even more money on AMD to buy
               | even more GPUs for years to come.
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | Market validation I guess.
        
             | lacker wrote:
             | > Sam is spinning the world on his finger tip with these
             | deals he's crafting.
             | 
             | That was my reaction too, this sort of weird deal seems
             | very Sam Altman style.
             | 
             | Like Elon Musk - ironically, the archenemies are very
             | stylistically similar.
        
           | zerosizedweasle wrote:
           | This is too top of the top to ignore. Everyone can see the
           | scam now, it's a joke
        
         | dagaci wrote:
         | Lol and I had to pay >$60 a share for my little bundle of AMD!
        
         | ralfn wrote:
         | Because of the vesting milestones the stock price of AMD would
         | go up by such an extent that creating more s hares would not
         | dilute the share price.
         | 
         | Obviously, for the stock price to go up money needs to come
         | from somewhere. It makes sense that this deal would lower the
         | NVidia stock price, so technically it will be NVidia investors
         | waiting too long to respond to this news that will be paying
         | for this. A tax on the mistaken believe that NVidia has an
         | monopoly on putting transitions in a particular configuration
         | which they obviously don't. The rest is just momentum and this
         | would kill that.
         | 
         | The real winners will be TSMC and ASML
        
           | j4hdufd8 wrote:
           | > A tax on the mistaken believe that NVidia has an monopoly
           | on putting transitions in a particular configuration which
           | they obviously don't
           | 
           | NVIDIA doesn't place transistors in particular
           | configurations. Foundries do that for them. And it is
           | currently common sense that the software is the moat, not the
           | hardware design.
           | 
           | Good luck changing the ecosystem to use AMD.
        
             | wqaatwt wrote:
             | > that the software is the moat, not the hardware design.
             | 
             | For inference that's hardly relevant, though?
             | 
             | For training its not exactly insurmountable either.
        
               | j4hdufd8 wrote:
               | GPUs are also used to speed up inference (the math is
               | virtually the same). You think your ChatGPT queries are
               | running on x86 servers?
        
               | ralfn wrote:
               | But do you think with the profit margins of NVidia,
               | others won't be offering competing chips? Google already
               | has their own for example.
               | 
               | From that perspective the notion that NVidia will own
               | this AI future while others such as AMD and Intel
               | standby, would be silly.
               | 
               | Im already surprised it took this long. The NVidia moat
               | might he software, but not anything that warrants these
               | kind of margins at this scale. It is likely there will be
               | strong price competition on hardware for inference.
        
           | Havoc wrote:
           | > Obviously, for the stock price to go up money needs to come
           | from somewhere.
           | 
           | Not convinced that's true anymore in current climate. Bigger
           | numbers announcements and AI Pixie dust works too apparently
           | lol
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | I mean the potential value comes from the future either
             | way.
             | 
             | If you just print money and nothing else, it inflates and
             | becomes worthless affecting all involved.
             | 
             | If the money turns into technical progress or products then
             | the entire economy grows.
        
               | Havoc wrote:
               | > potential value comes from the future
               | 
               | In a strictly commercial sense yes but stock markets
               | decoupled from that long ago. Whether it's wallstreetbets
               | up to shenanigans or a market crash it's got little to do
               | with actual future and more With sentiments. You'd hope
               | it would revert to fundamentals eventually but markets
               | sure seem happy to not do that
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | You can keep inflating imaginary piles of money until
               | someone tries to grab too much of it... Add in loaning
               | against the valuations and you can keep doing it even
               | longer...
        
               | barchar wrote:
               | The money actually has to be spent on real goods for
               | which supply is inelastic for this to happen. If it's
               | instead saved or used to pay taxes it won't cause any
               | inflation.
               | 
               | I suppose the increased savings means there more
               | potential for the private sector to cause inflation if
               | everyone decides to dissave at once, but that's sorta a
               | last resort.
        
         | dist-epoch wrote:
         | > I could be thinking about this the wrong way but it appears
         | that AMD is basically subsidizing the cost of the GPUs with
         | equity.
         | 
         | Yes, you are reading it wrong. The big winner here is AMD, not
         | OpenAI.
         | 
         | If there is any signal here, it's that AMD is still in the AI
         | game. AMD stock is up 30% on this news.
        
           | boringg wrote:
           | Its called hedging your risk: making sure Nvidia isn't the
           | only game in town.
        
           | nerdix wrote:
           | I didn't mean to imply that there was a winner or loser. Just
           | that AMD was subsidizing it's GPUs with equity.
           | 
           | I think there are logical reasons for both companies to agree
           | to this deal. AMD is trying to break CUDA dominance. OpenAI
           | is getting extremely cheap compute for expansion and they'd
           | also benefit from the Nvidia monopoly falling if that ever
           | happens.
        
           | orky56 wrote:
           | OpenAI isn't publicly listed so it's hard to tell how this
           | affects them from a "share price" concept. However for a
           | company that's not public and only has capital from financing
           | rounds and revenue, this gives OpenAI a lot more flexibility
           | for the future and hedges risk while maximizing upside.
        
         | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
         | AMD is giving OpenAI warrants (cf options) to buy AMD shares at
         | 1c/share, but these only vest if OpenAI goes thru with AMD
         | purchases as intended.
         | 
         | It seems to basically give OpenAI an incentive to go thru with
         | the deal.
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | Your way of spelling "through" makes a lot more sense.
        
           | agentcoops wrote:
           | I've seen a lot of confusion about this type of deal
           | recently: notably, it is often taken to imply something more
           | or less shady is going on. I'm not sure when such
           | arrangements became a thing, but I know equity stakes have
           | long been an important part of enterprise SaaS deals. The
           | reasoning is relatively straight-forward: if a large client
           | commits to a vendor in a way that holds some risk to the
           | former and will materially impact the latter's business --
           | and especially if the client's support of said vendor will
           | directly or indirectly benefit their competitors who might
           | also use this vendor -- an equity stake is a way to offset
           | risk with upside.
           | 
           | You can see this play out in the history of OpenAI. NVIDIA
           | supported them from an early stage and in exchange received
           | OpenAI equity to offset the risk. Now from a position of
           | relative strength, OpenAI has become concerned about vendor
           | lock-in and so is rationally exploring AMD. Yet, because any
           | such deal will materially impact AMD's stock price and there
           | is risk both of losing time trying to train with new chips as
           | well as of benefiting competitors if they work with AMD to
           | improve their hardware offerings/APIs, it is reasonable to
           | ask for equity upside. So, for the same reasons (increase in
           | stock price and enterprise client who will help improve their
           | product offering) only without risk, is it understandable why
           | AMD would want to offer equity on such favorable terms.
           | 
           | TLDR; My sense is that the sudden skepticism towards this
           | relatively common enterprise deal structure seems to derive
           | from the understandable interest in identifying signs of an
           | AI bubble. Such a bubble may (and indeed almost certainly
           | does) exist, but I don't think this is evidence thereof.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | EDIT: I'm just clarifying something I saw in a lot of
           | responses. My only point is that it is important to try and
           | empirically tease out what represents: (1) a circular deal in
           | which vendors facing the limits of growth are subsidizing
           | vulnerable clients; versus (2) a risk-hedging deal in which a
           | non-market leading vendor offers upside to a market leading
           | client.
           | 
           | I believe the recent Oracle and NVIDIA deals are cases of (1)
           | that provide evidence of an AI bubble, but that this AMD deal
           | is most likely a case of (2) that provides no _further_
           | evidence.
        
             | bgwalter wrote:
             | The skepticism is not sudden. Various kinds of circular
             | deals were common in 1999/2000, shortly before the bubble
             | burst, when telecom equipment makers subsidized their
             | customers in order to prop up sales.
        
               | agentcoops wrote:
               | I understand that. I simply think there's some importance
               | in at least trying to empirically tease out what
               | represents: (1) a circular deal in which vendors facing
               | the limits of growth are subsidizing vulnerable clients;
               | versus (2) a risk-hedging deal in which a non-market
               | leading vendor offers upside to a market leading client.
               | 
               | Again, I'm in no way denying either that (1) exists or
               | that there's almost certainly an AI bubble -- I just
               | think this difference is material.
               | 
               | For example, I would classify the recently proposed deal
               | between NVIDIA and OpenAI as a case of (1), but this deal
               | between AMD and OpenAI as (2). Namely, because I think
               | it's clear that the chips act as well as recent
               | advancements by Chinese manufacturers are threatening to
               | NVIDIA's market-leading position and OpenAI investigating
               | new vendors suggests they have suddenly become concerned
               | with reducing cost of goods. Indeed, if both the leading
               | Chinese firms and OpenAI were shown to be able to work
               | with other vendors without sacrificing speed to market it
               | would materially impact NVIDIA's stock price. AMD, on the
               | other hand, is not trying to subsidize an existing
               | client, but convince a market leader to take a risk.
               | 
               | The NVIDIA deal, then, suggests to me that certain limits
               | have been reached in the industry, while the AMD deal
               | does not provide me with any _further_ evidence as to the
               | existence of a bubble.
        
             | stingraycharles wrote:
             | I think the skepticism is mostly aimed towards OpenAI
             | making commitments to spend copious amounts of money,
             | rather than the options that AMD is offering which makes
             | sense.
        
             | mrandish wrote:
             | I generally agree with your point. OpenAI committing to
             | buying a bunch of AMD hardware and doing the work to
             | integrate support for it in their systems is a risk for
             | OpenAI and a benefit for AMD (as demonstrated by the AMD
             | stock popping on the announcement). So the warrants give
             | OpenAI equity upside to offset risk.
             | 
             | I think the skepticism comes from the recent OpenAI/Oracle
             | deal which seemed kind of circular due to paying with
             | equity whose value was being inflated by the deal itself
             | (if I understand it correctly). This deal seems more like
             | an outright gift of equity if OpenAI goes through with the
             | deal - so it could be thought of as almost a rebate or net
             | discount on the cost of the GPUs.
        
               | agentcoops wrote:
               | Completely agreed. I note in a comment below that my only
               | aim is to distinguish between deals that provide new
               | evidence of a bubble and those that do not provide any
               | further evidence towards that conclusion. I think the
               | Oracle and especially the recent NVIDIA deals provide
               | such evidence, while this AMD deal does not.
               | 
               | As @stingraycharles notes above, the AMD stock went up a
               | lot already and this "may finally enable AMD to get a
               | foot in the door in the whole large scale AI market."
        
             | gmerc wrote:
             | It's called Channel Stuffing and was always at least a red
             | flag.
        
           | stingraycharles wrote:
           | The stock popped quite a bit today, so investors seem to
           | think this is a good deal for AMD. I tend to agree, may
           | finally enable AMD to get a foot in the door in the whole
           | large scale AI market.
        
             | NaomiLehman wrote:
             | AMD cards are good for inference or new low-level stuff
             | anyway and more cost-effective. it's a good deal for
             | everyone.
        
               | ptero wrote:
               | AMD has great hardware, but its software still leaves a
               | lot to be desired for AMD to be a major AI hardware
               | player. It takes years of unwavering leadership focus and
               | hundreds of millions (probably billions) of dollars to
               | get the software that works well for AI users.
               | 
               | The role the software played to get NVIDIA from a run-of-
               | the-mill video card manufacturer to the top dog in AI
               | hardware with 4T market cap is often underappreciated. My
               | 2c.
        
               | noir_lord wrote:
               | > AMD has great hardware, but its software still leaves a
               | lot to be desired for AMD to be a major AI hardware
               | player. It takes years of unwavering leadership focus and
               | hundreds of millions (probably billions) of dollars to
               | get the software that works well for AI users.
               | 
               | It does but they have a capable CEO with a vision and
               | broad support from the board - Ryzen was a decade long
               | over night success.
        
               | RossBencina wrote:
               | Zen is a success. But Zen is hardware, and AMD is
               | (historically) a hardware company. Delivering software is
               | hard, even if you're a software company. I wouldn't take
               | it as given that a good (hardware) CEO, vision, and board
               | support are sufficient to build the required software
               | organisation, especially given their track record on this
               | front to date. It is more likely that Modular is AMD's
               | software savior. I won't speculate on how probable that
               | is.
        
               | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
               | AMD being able to benefit from AI, and this OpenAI
               | relationship, is a bit different though. This is about
               | using AMD hardware for training and presumably inference
               | of LLMs. The users will be people consuming OpenAI APIs
               | and services running on AMD hardware, not people
               | themselves writing custom ML applications using AMD
               | libraries.
               | 
               | Maybe also worth noting that some of the worlds largest
               | supercomputers (e.g. Oak Ridge "Frontier" exascale
               | computer) are based on AMD AI processors - I've no idea
               | what drivers/libraries are being used to program these,
               | but presumably they are reliable. I doubt they are using
               | CUDA compatibility libraries.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | Hopefully part of the contract is that OpenAI must make any
         | software frameworks they build to utilize AMD GPUs open source.
        
         | doctorpangloss wrote:
         | > In case you're wondering how OpenAI could afford to buy 10%
         | of AMD while they are hemorrhaging money -- the terms of the
         | deal allows OpenAI to buy 160 million shares at 1 cents a
         | share.
         | 
         | Ha ha, OpenAI can afford this because your mom uses a grand
         | total of 7 pieces of software owned by 5 companies, 4 are the
         | largest public companies in the world, and the 5th one is
         | OpenAI.
        
         | acchow wrote:
         | "Subsidizing" is one way to put it. But these are _options_ not
         | shares. We will discover in a few years that it was actually
         | AMD who is paying OpenAI to take GPUs.
        
         | strangattractor wrote:
         | Maybe they are using the $100 Billion NVidia investment to pay
         | for this:)
         | 
         | If this ship sinks they are all going down together.
        
         | hristov wrote:
         | It sure seems that way. The stock options are worth, at the
         | current price of AMD stock, about 32.8 Billion dollars. AMD is
         | giving out these stock options essentially for free in exchange
         | of open ai purchasing chips from AMD.
         | 
         | So open ai are getting a 32.8 billion dollars rebate. But on
         | what? Here the press releases are a bit vague. They say that
         | Open ai committed to buying six gigawatts of AMD chips. Anybody
         | know how to convert that into money?
        
           | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
           | > They say that Open ai committed to buying six gigawatts of
           | AMD chips. Anybody know how to convert that into money?
           | 
           | MI350 spec sheet says it's 1000 watts typical. So we're
           | talking about something on the scale of a couple million
           | chips.
        
           | mNovak wrote:
           | I figure these GPUs are typically around 1kW (unclear if 6GW
           | is including overhead like cooling, which might double(?) the
           | power), so in the range of 3-6M GPUs.
           | 
           | If these are somewhere in the range of $10-30k (who knows
           | what current or future models are contemplated), that's
           | $30-180B. So clearly the low end doesn't make sense for the
           | 'rebate', but at the high end a ~17% discount doesn't seem
           | unreasonable.
        
         | coliveira wrote:
         | This is money from nothing, right? They just found the tree of
         | money.
        
       | Mistletoe wrote:
       | I feel like I'm reading headlines from 1929. Surely everyone
       | knows how fake and pyramid all these deals are but no one seems
       | to care, they all think they will find a chair when the music
       | stops.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | It's quite a good strategy to counteract the prevailing sense
       | that "No one ever got fired for buying Nvidia GPUs".
       | 
       | AMD just doesn't know how to compete with Nvidia. The best it can
       | do is charge 10% less and release GPUs about the same level of
       | underwhelming performance as Nvidia.
       | 
       | Maybe they wouldn't need to sell equity if they made better
       | faster cheaper products than Nvidia.
       | 
       | But Lisa Su can't bring herself to compete. Which is very strange
       | because she brutally competed with and destroyed Intel.
        
         | rvba wrote:
         | At the end od the day it is not the CEO who invents / designs /
         | builds the stuff.
         | 
         | I mean, they could recognize that Nvdidia has better ecosystem
         | and they could provide something similar (CEO's job is to set
         | this), but saying "just make better chips" is kind of funny.
         | 
         | I mean, I worked in companies where the CEO couldnt figure this
         | out, but come on. It's AMD.
        
         | findthewords wrote:
         | I think it's quite obvious why Lisa Su isn't motivated to
         | financially crush her first cousin once removed. AMD is doing
         | quite well in the CPU space and as such isn't even forced to
         | compete in the GPU space. AMD could take market share from
         | Nvidia, but they don't have to, because there is no one else
         | who would take it either.
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | So the "we're so successful, we don't need any more business,
           | so we're just cruising", strategy eh?
           | 
           | Doesn't resonate for me as how most American companies do
           | business.
        
         | thejohnconway wrote:
         | > But Lisa Su can't bring herself to compete. Which is very
         | strange because she brutally competed with and destroyed Intel.
         | 
         | Maybe making cutting-edge GPUs is actually quite an engineering
         | challenge, and not entirely down to the competitive will of the
         | CEO?
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | AMD already make GPUs that are competitive with Nvidia at
           | every tier except the very top end.
           | 
           | It's the positioning and pricing that isn't competitive.
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | And software
        
             | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
             | Are they competitive per Watt and per mm2 of die?
        
             | jpadkins wrote:
             | You think Nvidia's advantage on LLM is hardware? It's the
             | software ecosystem around the GPU (that Nvidia took a
             | decade+ to build) that is the advantage.
        
         | archerx wrote:
         | >AMD just doesn't know how to compete with Nvidia.
         | 
         | They know exactly how to compete with Nvidia but choose not
         | too.
         | 
         | >But Lisa Su can't bring herself to compete.
         | 
         | Because she is colluding with her cousin Jensen.
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | "He's my cuz so I'll let him win the biggest business battle
           | there is."
           | 
           | I dunno, doesn't have the ring if credibility to it.
        
             | manquer wrote:
             | Don't know how it is with them, but can totally see it in
             | an Asian family lol, especially with the added male/female
             | dimension .
        
         | tbrownaw wrote:
         | > _and release GPUs about the same level of underwhelming
         | performance as Nvidia._
         | 
         | What's the standard that they're underwhelming relative to? I
         | thought Nvidia was the current big fish there.
        
           | f4uCL9dNSnQm wrote:
           | NVidia is terrible value for consumers when comparing their
           | own offering from previous years. The graph from
           | https://gamersnexus.net/gpus/great-nvidia-switcheroo-gpu-
           | shr... shows how low/mid segments become weaker and weaker
           | with each generation.
           | 
           | Meanwhile AMD doesn't try to disturb the market, they keep
           | their pricing at "price of similar NVidia card - $50". They
           | aren't going to gain market share that way.
        
         | mv4 wrote:
         | Unlike Intel, Nvidia is family.
        
       | JCM9 wrote:
       | The terms of some of these deals now are so completely bonkers it
       | would be funny if it wasn't so scary.
       | 
       | If someone was writing the script to "The Big Short 2" about the
       | AI bubble they might struggle to come up with some of these
       | things with a straight face.
       | 
       | Finance folks are salivating at the once in a generation
       | opportunities ahead when this whole thing crumbles. CNBC seems to
       | have at least one segment a day on "What's your AI bubble burst
       | play?"
        
       | progx wrote:
       | Moneyprinter goes Brrrr
        
       | lsaferite wrote:
       | Those vesting milestones must be steep for them to offer 10% of
       | the company at $0.01/share ($1.6M).
        
       | thiago_fm wrote:
       | When the bubble pops, the US' FTC will need to place limits on
       | those circular deals like this.
       | 
       | Literally the whole big tech will melt. There are banks that are
       | backing up certain GPU deals and those will be hit with billion
       | losses as well.
       | 
       | Imagine once they have to depreciate those $1T+ of GPUs, data
       | centers and the like that can't even be on resale for gaming.
       | 
       | Imagine when economic blocks like the EU and BRICs starts to
       | reject more US software, when so much of those Big Tech revenues
       | are made abroad. The recent geopolitics plays being a key factor.
       | 
       | This looks really bad.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | > US' FTC will need to place limits on those circular deals
         | 
         | So...after the next election and a bunch of significant US
         | governance reforms.
        
       | itsnowandnever wrote:
       | robber barons gonna robber baron.
        
       | SecretDreams wrote:
       | This industry is the most intense game of musical chairs I've
       | seen in a long time.
        
         | Jlagreen wrote:
         | And you have that right.
         | 
         | And now imagine what will happen when OpenAI makes deals with
         | Nvidia and AMD. Do you think Hyperscalers will just watch?
         | 
         | I expect Musk to make a $1 trillion deal soon. I guess, that's
         | why he wants to get the $1 trillion from Tesla.
         | 
         | And do you think Meta, Amazon, Microsoft and Google will stand
         | by while Altman and Musk are buying future supply from Nvidia
         | and AMD?
         | 
         | I love that. As an investor in Nvidia, I hope that these future
         | promises will push the stock 4-5x quickly in Cisco fashion
         | because then I can sell and retire in my 40s with a huge pile
         | of money watching the bubble explosion on some beach on an
         | island :)
        
           | SecretDreams wrote:
           | Trading any of this, the only question that you need to
           | answer is:
           | 
           | What is more painful to you, missing some gains on the way up
           | or holding positions that have flipped from positive to
           | negative very rapidly?
           | 
           | Markets like this, the moves will be violent in both
           | directions, not just on the way up.
        
             | Jlagreen wrote:
             | My cost base of Nvidia is $1 so for me to lose is that
             | Nvidia gets back to way before COVID valuation.
             | 
             | Nvidia is more worth than $1 per share on gaming alone.
        
               | SecretDreams wrote:
               | Totally fair. If you've got a great cost basis, you can
               | stress less. The question then becomes what feels worse:
               | 
               | Watching a position you sold double or watching a
               | position you're holding get cut in half?
        
               | dehrmann wrote:
               | This looks like the house money effect. It's sort of a
               | corollary to the sunk cost fallacy.
        
             | zerosizedweasle wrote:
             | This is all assuming that the government will be able to
             | bail them out of trouble. But the bond market / interests
             | rates / inflation and government debt mean they could so
             | serious damage to the country if they tried.
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | The fact you are even writing this usually means you should
           | sell immediately.
        
         | alwahi wrote:
         | i grew up thinking finance was boring. after 2008, i started to
         | pay a bit of attention, but the last few years of financial
         | shenanigans have been absolute cinema, it feels like we are
         | approaching the season finale.
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | Alternatively, they're just doing a clips episode based on
           | 2000.
        
             | SecretDreams wrote:
             | Definitely some deja vu
        
           | nextworddev wrote:
           | Just enjoy it if you can't avoid it
        
             | SecretDreams wrote:
             | That's how those Titanic violinists probably felt!
        
       | OtherShrezzing wrote:
       | Feels like we're living through a Michael Lewis book.
       | 
       | OpenAI estimate that it takes around $50bn to stand up a 1GW
       | datacenter. This deal is 6GW worth of chips. Their projected
       | revenues out to YE-2029 are $300bn. OpenAI will spend a decades
       | worth of revenues building & filling the datacenters to house
       | these chips, before accounting for their AI research, training,
       | or inference spend.
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | Don't forget that OpenAI also has a similarly-massive deal with
         | Oracle and another one with Nvidia. And its own Stargate
         | initiative. And probably a couple more massive contracts with
         | neoclouds to use more stuff.
         | 
         | Like best possible scenario is OpenAI merely optioning from
         | literally everybody because they don't think they have a shot
         | at getting any capacity otherwise. There is just no possible
         | way that they can actually afford all of the buildouts. For
         | that matter, there's not even any possible way for all of these
         | buildouts to actually be completed.
        
           | alwahi wrote:
           | if you buy all the chips, no one else can build agi. sama
           | probably
        
         | TheAlchemist wrote:
         | "Feels like we're living through a Michael Lewis book."
         | 
         | We definitely are ! The BIG question is - what chapter are we
         | in ?
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | OpenAI now has an option to buy 10% of AMD for $0.01 per share,
       | subject to certain milestones.
       | 
       | Basically, AMD is giving up equity to buy its way into the AI
       | market.
       | 
       | It's _fantastic news_ , because OpenAI and AMD will now work
       | together to develop _decent_ software libraries for AI on AMD
       | chips.
       | 
       | We all want an alternative to Nvidia and cuda. This partnership
       | could deliver it in the not too distant future.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | My understanding from the more hardware savvy friends I have is
         | that AMD is better for inference (so when you run a model) vs
         | for training Nvidia is still king. Would be interesting if
         | OpenAI does in fact take AMD's offer and how they use it (if
         | they even share openly).
        
           | alexeldeib wrote:
           | Larger memory, weaker comms. You can optimize for this by
           | doing things like increasing batch size/data parallelism vs
           | sharding schemes with more comms.
           | 
           | At scale training won't be able to avoid comms entirely,
           | while many models can fit in a single MI300 for serving.
        
           | cs702 wrote:
           | Today, yes, it's true that AMD hardware can be competitive
           | mainly for inference.
           | 
           | The story here is about _the future_. Over time, OpenAI would
           | benefit if AMD hardware becomes competitive for training too.
           | 
           | Nvidia currently gets to charge whatever the market can bear
           | on its dominant training hardware.
           | 
           | If AMD hardware becomes a real alternative for training,
           | Nvidia will be forced to compete on price.
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | The reason I think its worth noting is that Inference is
             | definitely what I imagine an insane amount of their
             | computer is / will be spent on. I could see a very optimal
             | setup where training is all Nvidia, but inference becomes
             | reliant on AMD.
        
           | thiago_fm wrote:
           | For inference there are many solutions like groq. The margins
           | there will be small.
           | 
           | The fat margins is in training, in NVidia hardware.
        
             | aurareturn wrote:
             | Inference margins will be small(er) but it will be much
             | bigger in market size than training.
             | 
             | That said, I'd much rather be leading in training than
             | inference, of course. Nvidia still leads in inference, by
             | the way.
        
           | neya wrote:
           | > OpenAI
           | 
           | > "If they even share openly"
           | 
           | That fact that this even needs to be pointed out but is
           | normalized in the AI industry. Sadly, in the history of Open
           | AI, they've been anything but open.
        
         | tanh wrote:
         | OpenAI are also using the market to fund some of their rollout
         | instead of going public/giving up equity.
        
         | lelanthran wrote:
         | It's only fantastic news if there is no bubble.
         | 
         | If there is a bubble, AMD just gave away $160m for nothing in
         | return.
        
           | tanh wrote:
           | I think OpenAI will try and continue this elsewhere, which
           | would be pretty worrying. It lets them not give up any
           | equity, just use their name to pump stocks and earn capital.
        
             | rhetocj23 wrote:
             | That's exactly it. Their only competitive weapon is brand
             | name right now and they are using that for all its worth
        
           | dist-epoch wrote:
           | Nothing in return? AMD stock is up 30% today on this news.
        
           | SecretDreams wrote:
           | > AMD just gave away $160m for nothing in return.
           | 
           | Where'd you get this number? The equity is worth closer to
           | 34bil if fully realized?
        
           | hmm37 wrote:
           | No... because the warrants can only be exercised if the share
           | price is at certain points. If AMD goes down, the warrants
           | can't be exercised at all. E.g. we know at least one share
           | price points is when AMD shares are worth $600/share.
        
           | Havoc wrote:
           | The option to buy shares seems pretty well locked down with
           | multiple vesting conditions So pretty unlikely that this ends
           | up in a "for nothing" space
           | 
           | https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-
           | releases/detail/1260/am...
        
         | rs186 wrote:
         | > It's fantastic news, because OpenAI and AMD will now work
         | together to develop decent software libraries for AI on AMD
         | chips.
         | 
         | Too fast to jump to conclusion. I'd say they will work together
         | to develop software specifically designed for OpenAI products.
         | It is a giant question mark whether we'll get libraries for
         | general purpose computing out of this.
        
           | cs702 wrote:
           | OpenAI and AMD both have strong incentives to chip away at
           | Nvidia's dominant position, and the best way to do that is by
           | releasing software tools to the public.
           | 
           | Ask yourself: What would first-class PyTorch/Triton and Jax
           | support for AMD hardware do to Nvidia's dominance and pricing
           | power?
        
             | rs186 wrote:
             | That argument could apply to every company who build their
             | business on AI (except Nvidia) but we haven't seen any
             | notable initiative or any significant movement in the past
             | 3 years.
             | 
             | I would not put my bets on private companies' goodwill. I'd
             | rather believe they'll do whatever is most important for
             | their business priority, understand things at their face
             | value, and then hope for the best.
        
               | cs702 wrote:
               | I disagree. My argument could not apply to other
               | companies, because AMD is the _only_ other maker of GPU
               | hardware that could conceivably compete with Nvidia at
               | scale in the AI market. Intel 's GPUs have never been in
               | the same league. New alternatives like Cerebras, etc. are
               | too small, too different, and too unproven at scale.
               | 
               | I'm not betting on anyone's goodwill, I'm betting on
               | OpenAI's and AMD's self-interest. Please don't attack a
               | straw-man.
        
       | tanh wrote:
       | I don't know why Bloomberg TV are asking where this money comes
       | from for OpenAI. It comes from the AMD stock holders. If the AMD
       | stock pumps then OpenAI gets free money to buy more, without
       | giving up equity. If it doesn't then OpenAI just walk away.
        
         | rhetocj23 wrote:
         | Yes it's a wealth transfer from existing amd shareholders
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | OpenAI is supposed to be buying something like $100 billion of
         | chips from AMD. On top of the hundreds of billions to like five
         | other companies for AI chips and other compute. Where do those
         | several hundred billions come from? That's the question being
         | asked here.
        
           | tanh wrote:
           | Just the 1st tranche of shares would be like $6 billion at
           | $220 so if they borrow against that they can fund it. If the
           | hype continues they keep it going
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | Not all of the $100 billion are purchases by OpenAI ("AMD
           | expects to receive more than $100 billion in new revenue over
           | four years from OpenAI _and other customers_ ").
           | 
           | For some reason the OpenAI portion of this deal is quoted in
           | gigawatts rather than number of MI450s purchased, which makes
           | it hard to tell how much of that $100 billion is from OpenAI.
           | It's probably around $80 billion.
        
         | jpadkins wrote:
         | specifically, it's coming from new AMD stock holders that are
         | buying shares at much higher than current prices. And those
         | shareholders are buying a company that they value more because
         | AMD is better positioned in the LLM market because of the side
         | effects of the OpenAI integration.
         | 
         | Existing AMD shareholders are getting a great deal; their
         | shares are worth 30% more today and will be worth 5X more if
         | OpenAI gets to use their option. Yes, there is some dilution
         | for existing shareholders, but only after a 5X gain.
         | 
         | OpenAI basically self financed the buying of tens of billions
         | of dollars of GPUs by increasing the enterprise value of AMD,
         | and taking a cut of that. And the increase in value is not just
         | the announcement, but the integration work needed to make AMD
         | GPUs as good as Nvidia for inference.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | The 10% option is interesting.
       | 
       | As a comparison of stocks over the last 5-years:
       | 1-Year   5-Year   Market Cap (Today)                ------
       | ------   ---------       AMD       20%       150%   $0.35T
       | NVIDIA    50%     1,250%   $4.5T
       | 
       | Today, AMD is up ~30% (which wipes the past year stock slump).
       | 
       | So a healthy portion of AMD overall 5-years gain are just from
       | this announcement today.
       | 
       | And OpenAI ($0.50T) is currently valued more than AMD ($0.35T)
       | itself.
       | 
       | https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NVDA/
       | 
       | https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMD/
        
         | Havoc wrote:
         | Finally. AMD had recently been pretty stagnant which made
         | little sense given their dominance on CPU and vaguely
         | competitive GPUs (cuda notwithstanding)
        
         | koakuma-chan wrote:
         | How is OpenAI valued? It's not publicly traded.
        
           | alberth wrote:
           | Sale of shares on secondary market at that valuation.
           | 
           | https://www.reuters.com/technology/openai-
           | hits-500-billion-v...
        
           | SecretDreams wrote:
           | It's valued from secondary markets based on how much it can
           | raise from private investments. These get reported out
           | eventually which juices the hype further in a bit of a
           | vicious cycle. this cycle also has quite the incestuous
           | component too with how every major company seems to have
           | their hands in each other's pants.
        
       | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
       | https://geohot.github.io//blog/jekyll/update/2025/03/08/AMD-...
       | 
       | It was inevitable, this basically marks the end of affordable
       | gaming GPUs, upgrade while you still can
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | Whatever some analyst say about medium term future of stock
       | markets. I can't see this ending in any other way than very ugly.
       | Or USD to become meaningless...
        
       | vicentwu wrote:
       | wow....
        
       | cameldrv wrote:
       | IMO underappreciated is that a big bump in the AMD stock price
       | helps AMD a lot because it will help it attract talent. NVIDIA
       | has a lot of very talented people with high standards and that's
       | a huge part of their success.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | openAI is becoming the single point of failure of this bubble .
       | 
       | Who DOESN't have a deal with them
        
         | the_duke wrote:
         | That's by design of course.
         | 
         | Rising tide lifts all boats.
        
           | malthaus wrote:
           | if only they could also anticipate what will happen once the
           | tide is falling
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | Two years ago, I built my entire business exclusively on AMD on
       | the bet that one day they would wake up to AI and dive head on
       | into it. They were totally behind on NVIDIA and my feeling was
       | that Lisa Su would not be able to ignore what was coming. This
       | news far exceeds my expectations for how quickly things are
       | changing. Feeling pretty good now.
        
       | razoorka wrote:
       | This whole thing looks like a bubble in slow motion.
       | 
       | A "non-profit" that somehow buys stakes, signs multi-billion
       | supply deals, and moves markets based on promises of future
       | models -- all while technically owning nothing tangible. They're
       | leveraging their own paper value to buy more paper value.
       | 
       | It's circular finance at scale: every deal increases the
       | perceived valuation, which then becomes collateral for the next
       | one. No audited revenue stream, no proven business model - just a
       | loop of hype, compute contracts, and self-referenced worth.
       | 
       | At some point, someone's going to ask what exactly is being
       | _sold_ here besides narrative.
        
         | bwfan123 wrote:
         | What surprises me is the pace and size of these announcements.
         | So many announcements so fast and each one at least 100B all
         | involving openai. Reminds me of a quote by Chuck Prince -
         | Citigroup CEO from 2008 - "As long as the music is playing,
         | you've got to get up and dance"
        
           | razoorka wrote:
           | Pretty much. Strip away the AI narrative and there's not much
           | else driving growth right now - manufacturing's flat,
           | consumer spending's slowing, and traditional tech margins are
           | shrinking.
           | 
           | This artificial boom in "AI infrastructure" is basically the
           | last engine keeping the charts pointing up. When that music
           | stops, there's nothing underneath it but leverage and power
           | bills.
        
       | amacbride wrote:
       | I do hope that this leads to improvement in the HIP/ROCm software
       | ecosystem.
       | 
       | It's definitely lacking in stability and polish compared to what
       | NVIDIA has built. (Ask me why I'm on my third rebuild of LAMMPS
       | this morning...)
        
         | buyucu wrote:
         | HIP/ROCm is waaay better than it was a few years ago. It took a
         | very long time, but AMD finally learned the importance of
         | software.
        
           | ctas wrote:
           | Are consumer cards also benefiting from the improvements or
           | only datacenters?
        
       | melodyogonna wrote:
       | And in situations like this the technology being built by Modular
       | becomes incredibly important.
        
       | resters wrote:
       | This is very smart. AMD has left this market untapped for a long
       | time but will close the gap with nvidia rapidly.
        
       | buyucu wrote:
       | It's a no-brainer, no? Nobody wants to pay the Nvidia tax.
        
       | zerosizedweasle wrote:
       | It's a joke, they're not even trying to disguise the circular
       | money flows anymore.
        
         | rozap wrote:
         | Similar infinite money glitch to the dot com boom.
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | Modulo the obvious financial chicanery, this does confirm to the
       | market that Nvidia doesn't have a moat. So probably positive for
       | AMD in the long term even when the deal itself goes sideways.
        
       | nickysielicki wrote:
       | I wonder what they intend to use for networking, it's not really
       | clear from this.
        
       | triceratops wrote:
       | AMD is giving OpenAI chips _and_ 10% of the company? Nice work if
       | you can get it.
        
       | gowld wrote:
       | AMD gives OpenAI $30B worth (todaty's value) of AMD stock.
       | 
       | Cash-poor OpenAI pledges/promises about ~$100B in purchases.
       | 
       | AMD makes back the money on (a) 30% volume discount is normal?
       | (b) stock pop from AI hype (AMD popped up ~$100B market cap on
       | the news.) ?
        
       | fancyfredbot wrote:
       | This $100bn deal didn't cost anything and isn't worth anything.
       | Remember back two weeks ago when Nvidia gave OpenAI $100bn so
       | they can keep buying Nvidia GPUs? This is AMD trying to do the
       | same, but they don't have $100bn so they are offering OpenAI
       | share options to buy GPUs.
       | 
       | The share options will be worth at least $100bn too, if the
       | conditions are met. But meeting the conditions will require
       | buying huge numbers of GPUs from AMD. GPUs worth $100bn, and
       | somewhere to put them. OpenAI can't afford that - not even close.
       | 
       | So they need to raise financing. On the face of it, the options
       | seem to mean that lending OpenAI the money to buy the GPUs is
       | perfectly safe. You take the stock options as collateral. You
       | lend the money, OpenAI buy the GPUs, the AMD stock goes up, the
       | option conditions are met, and even if OpenAI didn't pay you back
       | the options will let you recover your investment.
       | 
       | However, this loan is far less safe than it first appears. The
       | problem is that although lending the money allows openAI to buy
       | GPUs, this doesn't necessarily cause AMD stock to rise. Infact if
       | OpenAI don't find a profitable use for them then both their stock
       | price, and AMD's will go down. And you'll be left with worthless
       | collateral and a big loan to a company which can't afford to pay
       | it back. So they haven't actually magically created financing at
       | all. They just created the illusion of it. It's very clever. But
       | it's fake. The real announcement will be when or if someone lends
       | OpenAI cash.
        
         | lumost wrote:
         | This depends significantly on the real cost of the gpu. The
         | cost of enterprise ai GPUs is likely 2 orders of magnitude
         | lower than the current list price. These deals avoid the need
         | to markdown the price of the hardware to gain volume.
         | 
         | If I understand the math correctly. Amd could offer the GPUs at
         | around a 20x discount to OpenAI on a deal worth 10-20 billion
         | and be profitable on both amortized R&D and Cost of Goods sold.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | It's probably closer to 5x (80% gross margin) than 20x.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | _if OpenAI don 't find a profitable use for them then both
         | their stock price, and AMD's will go down._
         | 
         | Nah, nothing in the current market is based on fundamentals.
        
           | blitzar wrote:
           | > stock price, and AMD's will go down
           | 
           | stonks goes up
        
         | coliveira wrote:
         | It seems that these American companies have decided, with the
         | government blessing, to form a cartel to split the imaginary
         | money they assume will exist for AI technologies. This is an
         | extremely disturbing notion that will only increase the
         | combined power of these tech companies over our daily lives,
         | but may also spell the doom of the economy in a not-so-distant
         | future.
        
           | joenot443 wrote:
           | Fully anecdotal, but nearly every knowledge worker I know has
           | Copilot or ChatGPT or some kind of corporate LLM subscription
           | included in their job now. I don't think the majority use it
           | very well, but I know at least a handful who do.
           | 
           | Corporate America seems ready to spend real money on AI, at
           | least for now. This money being spent today doesn't come
           | close to recouping the investment OpenAI et al have made, but
           | the trickle's begun. The money's not all imaginary.
        
             | threecheese wrote:
             | I was told that - with the full complement of good tools
             | for a scrum team- the cost approaches a 6th member of the
             | team. The crap from MS/GH plus a decent agent like
             | Claude/Bedrock. You can squeeze decent behavior from vscode
             | agent if you know what you are doing, but anyone who knows
             | what they are doing wishes they had something better.
        
               | trenchpilgrim wrote:
               | That isn't true for our team. It's more like the cost of
               | coffee/tea/energy drinks for our team.
        
             | alienthrowaway wrote:
             | Back in the dotcom boom years, Internet adoption growth was
             | real - with a lot of people and businesses paying real
             | money to get online. And yet, the dotcom bust happened. The
             | fact that paying customers are adopting a technology in no
             | way implies that the current state of the industry is
             | sustainable.
        
         | JumpinJack_Cash wrote:
         | > > Infact if OpenAI don't find a profitable use for them then
         | both their stock price, and AMD's will go down.
         | 
         | In theory yes but OpenAI doesn't have a stock and in the word
         | of AntiChrist Peter Thiel : "We only have AI, there is nothing
         | else out there except for AI" so with the belief still strong
         | to carry at least up until GPT 7 OpenAI will find ways to
         | present itself to the world as capable of putting to use the
         | AMD GPUs and AMD will benefit from it.
         | 
         | And honestly the anti Christ is right. Vibe coding is already
         | bigger than self driving cars, the metaverse and all that stuff
         | that emerged during covid
        
       | lumost wrote:
       | This seems to be OpenAI's path to victory in the AI race. Buy up
       | the supply chain of compute to the extent that no other
       | competitor could possibly have access to the same compute. If
       | they are able to shut out Google/X.AI from the market, there
       | really aren't any viable firms to keep financing next generation
       | models on a pure compute scaling basis. I'm leaving out Anthropic
       | as they don't appear to be as compute focused as X/OpenAI/Google.
       | It's unclear if compute is the sole determiner of AI leadership
       | in the long term or just a contributor.
        
       | Argonaut998 wrote:
       | When I was around 10 years old I remember us asking the teacher
       | why not just print money to solve the worlds problems and the
       | teacher scoffing. It took me another 15 years to realise that's
       | basically what central banks do, especially these last five
       | years. BTC is at $125k, gold at $4000, and every other week we
       | are inundated with some multi-hundred billion dollar deals
       | somewhere or other. All this talk about multi GW data centers
       | where one will notice the consumer is no where to be found, just
       | like an extension lead plugged into itself.
       | 
       | Are we supposed to pretend that this is normal? Does anyone not
       | feel like this push for AI is a last ditch effort to save the
       | global stock market, that it MUST work out?
        
       | semiquaver wrote:
       | Highly relevant money stuff from today:
       | https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-10-06/ope...
       | 
       | In a very real sense, OpenAI caused a 25% increase in AMD's value
       | by announcing the deal, and was allowed to capture about half of
       | that out-of-nowhere value for itself by these options.
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | OpenAI has signed a deal with AMD that they will buy $100B worth
       | of gpus.
       | 
       | On top of the gpus... AMD has offered cheap equity to sweeten the
       | deal and help them get financing to pay for the gpus.
       | 
       | Am I getting this right?
        
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