[HN Gopher] Orcas are bringing humans gifts
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Orcas are bringing humans gifts
        
       Author : wslh
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2025-10-04 01:00 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newscientist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newscientist.com)
        
       | mitchbob wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/OkNVu
        
       | nacho-daddy wrote:
       | The ones that aren't attacking boats I presume.
        
         | malux85 wrote:
         | Maybe it's the same ones, and they desire peace
        
         | wiredfool wrote:
         | This orca prefers to gift us what appears to be a ships wheel.
         | It's unclear the cultural significance of this offering.
        
         | thrance wrote:
         | The orcas "attacking" boats are just teenagers having found a
         | new fun thing to play with. Too bad it involves damaging
         | private property, but I don't think it matters much to them.
        
       | mistermuckle wrote:
       | It's a lot like when we "share" our worms with fish.
        
         | rexpop wrote:
         | Pacific cultures have long oral histories referencing
         | altruistic and cooperative behavior from Orcas.
        
         | Valgrim wrote:
         | There have been exactly 0 known deadly attacks from wild orcas
         | in history.
        
           | giorgioz wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca_attacks '0 or never' is
           | unlikely to be true.
        
             | bawolff wrote:
             | "Experts are divided as to whether the injuries and deaths
             | were accidental or deliberate attempts to cause harm"
             | 
             | I mean, i don't know, if you can't come up with a single
             | clear cut example in the wild in all of human history, i
             | think that is enough to put them very low on the threat
             | list.
        
               | jibal wrote:
               | Strawman. The claim disputed was _specifically_ "There
               | have been exactly 0 known deadly attacks from wild orcas
               | in history.", not "they're low on the threat list".
        
               | plorg wrote:
               | That claim was made in response to a different claim
               | above, to which "orcas have not been clearly shown to
               | attack humans outside captivity" is a perfectly cromulent
               | response. Pedantry like this really is annoying. This
               | isn't high school debate.
        
               | bawolff wrote:
               | A) you're being overly pedantic
               | 
               | B) according to the article there is no consensus among
               | scientists that any of these incidents actually
               | constitute an "attack". So if we are being this level of
               | pedantic, its arguably true that "There have been exactly
               | 0 known deadly attacks from wild orcas in history."
        
           | antonvs wrote:
           | Given the hundreds of attacks on boats off the Iberian
           | peninsula, including four sinkings, the lack of human deaths
           | is partly a matter of luck.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_orca_attacks
        
             | fainpul wrote:
             | These are attacks on boats, not on humans.
             | 
             | "Wild orcas have never been documented hunting or eating
             | humans, so it is unlikely this relates to wanting a meal."
             | (quote from
             | https://www.newscientist.com/article/2378796-why-have-
             | orcas-...)
        
               | antonvs wrote:
               | That would seem like an academic distinction to someone
               | injured or killed during such an incident.
               | 
               | Elephants that trample humans also aren't looking for a
               | meal.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | The original comment was:
               | 
               | > It's a lot like when we "share" our worms with fish.
               | 
               | So, it is a relevant distinction, the theory of that
               | comment is that they are using them as bait for humans.
               | That they aren't ever recorded as intentionally killing
               | and eating humans is relevant.
               | 
               | They fight boats for other reasons apparently, maybe they
               | or territorial, or maybe the boats are making some
               | annoying nose?
        
               | antonvs wrote:
               | Perhaps the bait is intended to attract boats.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Given that orcas are apex predators, I think it's
               | worthwhile to make the distinction between death or
               | injury of humans due to direct predation versus
               | accidental or indirect means.
        
             | JR1427 wrote:
             | I wonder if they target boats using depth sounders? You
             | could imagine the noise might be annoying or aggravating to
             | orcas.
        
           | gpderetta wrote:
           | Maybe the Orcas are smart enough to make sure not to leave
           | witnesses :D
        
       | alwahi wrote:
       | uh oh.... i guess the space highway got approved....
        
         | xingped wrote:
         | There's no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning
         | charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local
         | planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth
         | years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal
         | complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it
         | now.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | And the humans say the _LLMs_ are the stoichastic parrots in
           | the room...
        
       | barrenko wrote:
       | The only other species other than humans that has as long post-
       | reproductive lives.
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | I guess we don't have data for Greenland sharks.
        
         | knome wrote:
         | This is not correct in the least.
         | 
         | As one of many, many examples, a galapagos turtle reaches
         | sexual maturity at 20 to 25 years of age, and lives 100 to 200
         | years.
        
           | IAmBroom wrote:
           | I think barrenko meant "lives after reproductive ability
           | ends", and AFAIK Galapagos tortoises can reproduce at those
           | ages. Certainly the males can, but so can 80yo human males.
        
             | barrenko wrote:
             | Something like that, I take full fault.
        
         | calmbonsai wrote:
         | Perhaps, what you mean, are the only other social mammals with
         | K-population selection reproductive strategy?
         | 
         | FWIW, elephants also fall into this category. It's theorized
         | that "grandparents" are important cultural archives.
         | 
         | Both orcas and elephants are also matriarchal.
        
         | glitchc wrote:
         | Perhaps you mean among mammalian species? Reptiles can live
         | long lives and experience multiple reproductive cycles.
         | Alligators technically live forever.
        
       | giorgioz wrote:
       | Orca Uses Bait To Hunt Bird
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14wWxaMR2Mg
       | 
       | Orcas understand the concept of bait. It is possible the bird was
       | either a gift or a bait to lure in a bigger prey.
        
         | fainpul wrote:
         | The birds in the video are out of reach (until one isn't). I'm
         | sure orcas perceive humans in water as very slow and easy to
         | catch - baiting would not make sense.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | I wonder if we accidental scare or chase their predators
           | away.
           | 
           | Or, hmm. Orca are pack animals I believe. If we killed a
           | competing family of Orca (even by accident), maybe the gift
           | is a thanks for the perception of "siding with my family".
        
             | rkomorn wrote:
             | What preys on orcas? It seems like a bad idea.
        
             | nkrisc wrote:
             | I don't think there's much that will predate orcas, at
             | least adults, other than perhaps humans or hypothetically
             | other orcas.
             | 
             | They are apex predators, they don't have natural predators.
        
               | kamarg wrote:
               | Humpback whales have been known to defend other animals
               | from Orcas. The food of my enemy is my friend type of
               | thing I guess.
        
               | rkomorn wrote:
               | The humpback whale and orca beef is kind of hilarious.
               | 
               | Orcas are kind of assholes and it seems other animals
               | care.
        
         | s_dev wrote:
         | Surely we can rule out bait if the cameraman is underwater with
         | the Orca. At that point there isn't much stopping the Orca
         | preying on the human especially if we're acknowledging their
         | intelligence.
        
           | Y-bar wrote:
           | They apparently hunt Moose on occasion: https://www.forbes.co
           | m/sites/scotttravers/2024/10/22/4-decad...
           | 
           | (I know Forbes is not generally the best link, but the author
           | of this article is an actual evolutionary biologist)
        
             | s_dev wrote:
             | The specific claim I'm disputing is that the Orca is using
             | the 'gift' as 'bait' here. The implication that once the
             | human bites or engages with the bait they are then preyed
             | upon. The fact that moose are preyed upon by Orcas is
             | irrelevant here.
        
               | Y-bar wrote:
               | The point I am trying to make is that Orcas can choose to
               | prey on large land animals when they are in the water and
               | that they are not using the gift as bait. Why do you
               | think I am disagreeing with you?
        
               | jibal wrote:
               | Because he naturally assumed that you were attempting to
               | say something relevant to his own claim rather than a
               | complete non sequitur. Maybe in your head you intended to
               | somehow make the point that they're not using the gift as
               | bait but you didn't say anything of the sort so it wasn't
               | your point as written. You also said nothing about humans
               | and moose both being large land animals (and from the
               | Orca's POV it's not likely that it considers humans to be
               | land animals) and that therefore yada yada ... none of
               | this was expressed.
               | 
               | (I see quite a bit of this, where someone is called out
               | and then they say "my point was X" where nothing they had
               | said previously expressed X.)
        
               | Y-bar wrote:
               | Only on the internet will "here's a related example why
               | you might be correct" result in strange discussions like
               | these. Makes me sad.
        
               | ugexe wrote:
               | Only on the internet, where most of us (maybe even
               | yourself) have the majority of our discussions?
        
               | Y-bar wrote:
               | I've been on the internet since the early 90:ies, and
               | this does happen semi-regularly, especially during the
               | last decade. But I have never in my life experienced such
               | situations stemming from an agreeing
               | reflection/interjection during face-to-face
               | communication. Sometimes it feels like people are
               | (un)intentionally looking for reasons to disagree rather
               | than anything else.
        
               | jfyi wrote:
               | I agree with them, your original post lacked clarity. I
               | propose that the reason these types of conversations are
               | less likely in person is because there is typically no
               | log of exactly what was said and people tend to get
               | defensive and narratives change. This makes it a
               | pointless endeavor.
               | 
               | I would suggest, rather than wondering why people on the
               | internet point things like this out, maybe wonder how
               | many people in real life never bothered and just write
               | you off.
        
               | IAmBroom wrote:
               | No, I've had those conversations IRL. Human communication
               | is inherently fraught with misunderstandings.
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | Consider instead reflecting on why your point was
               | misunderstood?
               | 
               | My reading was, that post said "I don't think it makes
               | sense that it's bait, because the humans are already in
               | the water and they aren't eating them"
               | 
               | Then you said "Sometimes they eat moose"
               | 
               | You did not provide the reader with any language or
               | reasoning connecting those ideas, so it comes off as a
               | non sequitur.
               | 
               | Compare instead with something like, "Moreover, we know
               | this isn't just because humans are land mammals, because
               | they have eaten moose"
        
               | scott_w wrote:
               | Perhaps but it's the norm. I try to preface what I write
               | with "I agree" just to try and clarify my position ahead
               | of time. Remember that there's a bunch of context missing
               | in text such as facial expressions, body language and
               | tone of voice that would have quickly made clear that you
               | were in agreement ;-)
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > Only on the internet will "here's a related example why
               | you might be correct" result in strange discussions like
               | these. Makes me sad.
               | 
               | It would help if the comment said any of those quoted
               | words. The context as I see it was:
               | 
               | 1> they could be baiting the human
               | 
               | 2> why bait the human and not eat it?
               | 
               | 3> They hunt moose
               | 
               | With no further words, it could be intended as they hunt
               | moose, so they clearly like surf and turf and would love
               | to eat a human. Or it could be intended as they hunt
               | moose, they know how to hunt land animals so it's a
               | choice to give a gift that'a not bait.
               | 
               | In person, someone hearing the 3rd comment would probably
               | make a confused face and the person making the offering
               | of a moose reference would make clarifying comments.
        
               | krisoft wrote:
               | It is not that surprising that this kind of
               | misunderstanding happens more often on the internet. In
               | real life we communicate with more than just our words.
               | We see how our communication partners say what they say,
               | where they are looking, what cadence and tone they use.
               | We also see what faces they make while the other person
               | was talking, how alert they were.
               | 
               | When all of that is missing it is harder to glean the
               | tenor or direction of the message.
               | 
               | And then on top of that there is a thing I would call
               | "expectation bias". We expect to see something, and when
               | what we see does not match our expectations we sometimes
               | become blind to that. Conversations on this site very
               | often go "argument - counter argument - counter counter
               | argument - counter counter counter argument". Because of
               | that people (me included!) often read comments with the
               | expectation that it will at least in some way disagree
               | with what was said before. And once someone has that
               | expectation it is easy to misread a supporting comment as
               | a weird and under-argued disagreement.
               | 
               | > Makes me sad.
               | 
               | I do understand. And you are not wrong. Misunderstandings
               | are sad. It seems we sometimes forget that there is an
               | other human being on the other side of the screen too. So
               | sadness is not unwarranted sometimes.
               | 
               | But on a constructive level we can recognise where the
               | confusion slips in and we can add extra words to help
               | lubricate the discussion. I often start my comments with
               | stating my level of agreement. (From "Yes, you are 100%
               | right..." via "You are mostly right, but I disagree with
               | X" to "No, I'm afraid that is not true at all") Basically
               | typing more characters because others can't see my
               | gestures, and can't hear the tenor of my voice.
               | 
               | For example in this case you could have wrote: "I agree
               | that an orca probably doesn't see a human diver as a
               | significant threat, and wouldn't need to use a bait to
               | attack it. After all they are known to attack moose too!
               | ..." (As an example. Of course I don't know if that is
               | what you were actually thinking.)
               | 
               | Could your comment been understood in an ideal world even
               | without that? I think so. Could it have been fortified
               | with a few choice words to better signal that what you
               | are providing are related examples to support the already
               | stated argument? I would think so too.
        
           | techterrier wrote:
           | Never happened in the wild. The only recorded incidents of
           | Orca attacking humans were in the aquariums.
        
       | danw1979 wrote:
       | It's up and down with these guys, either gifts of food or they're
       | chewing off your rudder.
        
         | yetihehe wrote:
         | Just like humans vs birds. Some birds will see our good side
         | (humans helped some birds with broken wings, fed some other
         | birds), some will see our bad side (humans shooting birds).
        
       | 28304283409234 wrote:
       | Reminds me of the Killer whales of Eden, where for a period of 90
       | years or so orcas would assist whalers in catching whales.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_Sou...
        
       | lordnacho wrote:
       | How do they decide who to offer stuff to? There's a bunch of
       | creatures in the ocean, why would they offer things to humans?
       | 
       | Also, do people ever give the orca anything they want?
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Maybe they are just curious or doing it for whimsy sake. They
         | have been observed to wear salmon on their heads for no
         | apparent reason... we do all sorts of odd stuff due to a
         | temporary surplus of brainpower.
        
           | coef2 wrote:
           | I found the news hilarious. Orcas used to wear salmon hats
           | back in the 80s, then the trend disappeared, only to make a
           | comeback in recent years. It really feels like they have
           | their own version of human fashion trends or group behavior.
           | The funniest part is that their fashion statement is a dead
           | salmon instead of clothes.
           | 
           | https://web.archive.org/web/20251001135117/https://www.natio.
           | ..
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | Leopard seals, the apex predator of the Sourthern Ocean near
         | Antarctica, have been known to bring penguins as gifts to
         | divers. When the divers didn't take the chicken dinner, they
         | helpfully killed it, so the diver could eat.
         | 
         | Disappointingly to them, no doubt, the divers still didn't dig
         | in. But it's the thought that counts. Literally, since leopard
         | seals can easily kill humans in the sea and on the land.
         | 
         | Anyway, mammals are capable of thoughtful behaviors towards
         | others outside their own species.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | As I'd just commented myself. Link: <https://www.nationalgeog
           | raphic.com/adventure/article/140311-...>
        
       | tdeck wrote:
       | Cats do this, and they're less intelligent than orcas.
        
         | tracker1 wrote:
         | Dogs will too.
        
       | sakesun wrote:
       | Everybody want to be loved.
        
       | reaanb2 wrote:
       | Trying to placate the gods who are busy destroying their world...
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | I think they do have either instinctual or cultural knowledge
         | that the soft slow things from above will bring death if they
         | are offended.
        
       | Peteragain wrote:
       | Someone once pointed out to me that if sonar is your primary
       | sensor, and sonar "sees" through things, human lungs look much
       | like dolphin lungs - and orcas' presumably. We are one of them. A
       | pretty feeble one of course, and perhaps one that needs feeding.
        
         | bilsbie wrote:
         | I thought they attacked dolphins?
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | And whales, seals, otters, walruses, etc., all of which have
           | lungs.
           | 
           | I suspect some other basis.
        
             | Buttons840 wrote:
             | Sticking with the theory though: Maybe they can "see
             | through" us enough to know we're literally just skin and
             | dense bones with very little fat or calories.
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | Technically they are dolphins. But yes, _some_ populations of
           | Orcas do eat other dolphins. Some don 't. Their feeding
           | habits seem to be cultural.
        
             | gspencley wrote:
             | autism warning
             | 
             | As most people understand the word "dolphin", Orcas are not
             | technically dolphins though they belong to the same family.
             | 
             | I've heard the claim that Orcas are a species of porpoise,
             | like dolphins, but I can't even corroborate that since
             | Wikipedia is claiming that porpoises are distinct from
             | dolphins.
             | 
             | The clearest explanation I've been able to find comes from
             | this article: https://nextlevelsailing.com/relationship-
             | between-orca-kille...
             | 
             | > The classification of orcas as dolphins stems from their
             | scientific categorization. Both orcas and dolphins fall
             | under the family Delphinidae, which encompasses oceanic
             | dolphins. Despite their formidable size and fearsome
             | reputation, orcas share more in common with their smaller
             | dolphin relatives than with other whale species.
             | 
             | So Orcas and dolphins are both categorized in the family
             | Delphinidae which is colloquially referred to as the
             | "Oceanic Dolphins" so, depending on what you mean, yes
             | Orcas are technically dolphins but then ... so are
             | dolphins. Meaning that "dolphin" and "delphinidae" refer to
             | two distinct things even though all dolphins are
             | delphinidae and the colloquial term for "delphinidae" is
             | "oceanic dolphin." But it's important to recognize that the
             | oceanic dolphins is a pretty wide family that includes
             | several species that have the word "whale" in their name,
             | such as belugas and narwhals, in addition to orcas.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | Tbh, just subjectively, they look a lot more dolphiny
               | than whaley to me. They're like dolphins that hit the
               | gym.
        
               | snitch182 wrote:
               | And the paint bucket.
        
         | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
         | Here's an interesting result of that: whales that have
         | developed "internal antlers"
         | (https://academic.oup.com/biolinnean/article-
         | abstract/113/2/5...). Mostly invisible to eyes but perfectly
         | visible to ears.
         | 
         | Abstract:
         | 
         | Skulls of many living and extinct beaked whales (Ziphiidae)
         | contain various bizarre bone and tooth structures. Many of them
         | show sexual dimorphism in their skull anatomy: males have
         | bizarre skull structures, whereas females do not. Opinions
         | differ as to what the function of these structures might be.
         | Some believe that these are weapons; others, that they are
         | sound transmitters. This article argues that these structures
         | are the means of visual display. Many of the bizarre bone
         | structures of beaked whales are not exposed like 'visuals' of
         | terrestrial tetrapods, but are located deep in soft tissues.
         | Nevertheless, toothed whales recognize objects (including
         | three-dimensional bodies), using echolocation. So, along with
         | visual means, they can 'see' and 'show' their internal bone
         | structures with echoic imaging and use them as informational
         | sources in social interactions and in individual or species
         | recognition.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | Leopard seals have been observed practicing similar behaviour:
       | 
       | "How a Leopard Seal Fed Me Penguins" (2014)
       | 
       | <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/140311-...>
        
         | pcdoodle wrote:
         | Fun video on that page.
        
       | boilerupnc wrote:
       | related farside:
       | 
       | "The herring's nothin'. I'm going for the whole shmeer!" [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-
       | content/uploads/2024/...
        
       | K0balt wrote:
       | Perhaps they heard about orcas attacking boats (again), and are
       | working on maintaining good relations with a species that they
       | can't help but notice impacts their wellbeing.
       | 
       | Orcas (and whales in general) attacking boats died off steeply
       | after the abandonment of whaling by most of the world. With orcas
       | this makes perhaps a little less sense from an incentive
       | standpoint, but it seems that whale attacks and specifically orca
       | attack frequency moved more or less together.
       | 
       | Recently there has been a rash of orcas attacking and sinking
       | small yachts and boats around the Iberian peninsula, which is
       | mostly attributed to juveniles within a certain cultural group.
       | (Dolphin antifa lol?)
       | 
       | Realistically though the gifting is probably not "politically
       | motivated" lol. But with intelligent animals, I've found that
       | it's very, very easy to underestimate the often surprising
       | sophistication of their actions.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | > Orcas (and whales in general) attacking boats died off
         | steeply after the abandonment of whaling by most of the world.
         | 
         | That's interesting if true. What do you base this on? In other
         | words: do you have a source for that?
        
           | K0balt wrote:
           | Only source is that I've been a sometimes-mariner and
           | cruising family captain since the 80s, hearing about the
           | reports on the cruiser HF nets, and gradually witnessing a
           | change from often aggressive , sometimes disastrous
           | encounters to mostly peaceful or even sometimes friendly or
           | helpful encounters into the 2010's.
           | 
           | I'm sure there is data somewhere, though. In the 90s, the
           | gradual drop off in attacks was widely attributed to whales
           | that witnessed whaling aging out. I doubt there is any
           | scientific validation for this theory, but it is plausible as
           | there are many accounts of whales with old whaling wounds
           | being exceptionally aggressive, with some becoming legendary
           | in their own right.
        
         | missedthecue wrote:
         | Orcas have been to known to intentionally assist whalers
         | hunting for Baleen whales, so I don't know about this theory
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tom_(orca)
        
       | xhkkffbf wrote:
       | > could suggest they have theory of mind and engage in altruism -
       | even across species
       | 
       | I watched a pod of orcas kill a new born grey whale. They may
       | have a different idea of "altruism" than we do.
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | Plenty of "god-fearing", "ex-boyscouts" have engaged in
         | massacres involving children as part of military actions.
         | 
         | Humans are undoubtedly capable of altruism, and simultaneously
         | capable of the most egregious acts of violence the world has
         | ever known.
        
       | HardCodedBias wrote:
       | Clearly:
       | 
       | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmxCKbfV4AAA59g?format=jpg&name=...
        
       | stevage wrote:
       | Strange that the article keeps using the term killer whales.
        
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