[HN Gopher] Orcas are bringing humans gifts
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Orcas are bringing humans gifts
Author : wslh
Score : 139 points
Date : 2025-10-04 01:00 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newscientist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newscientist.com)
| mitchbob wrote:
| https://archive.ph/OkNVu
| nacho-daddy wrote:
| The ones that aren't attacking boats I presume.
| malux85 wrote:
| Maybe it's the same ones, and they desire peace
| wiredfool wrote:
| This orca prefers to gift us what appears to be a ships wheel.
| It's unclear the cultural significance of this offering.
| thrance wrote:
| The orcas "attacking" boats are just teenagers having found a
| new fun thing to play with. Too bad it involves damaging
| private property, but I don't think it matters much to them.
| mistermuckle wrote:
| It's a lot like when we "share" our worms with fish.
| rexpop wrote:
| Pacific cultures have long oral histories referencing
| altruistic and cooperative behavior from Orcas.
| Valgrim wrote:
| There have been exactly 0 known deadly attacks from wild orcas
| in history.
| giorgioz wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca_attacks '0 or never' is
| unlikely to be true.
| bawolff wrote:
| "Experts are divided as to whether the injuries and deaths
| were accidental or deliberate attempts to cause harm"
|
| I mean, i don't know, if you can't come up with a single
| clear cut example in the wild in all of human history, i
| think that is enough to put them very low on the threat
| list.
| jibal wrote:
| Strawman. The claim disputed was _specifically_ "There
| have been exactly 0 known deadly attacks from wild orcas
| in history.", not "they're low on the threat list".
| plorg wrote:
| That claim was made in response to a different claim
| above, to which "orcas have not been clearly shown to
| attack humans outside captivity" is a perfectly cromulent
| response. Pedantry like this really is annoying. This
| isn't high school debate.
| bawolff wrote:
| A) you're being overly pedantic
|
| B) according to the article there is no consensus among
| scientists that any of these incidents actually
| constitute an "attack". So if we are being this level of
| pedantic, its arguably true that "There have been exactly
| 0 known deadly attacks from wild orcas in history."
| antonvs wrote:
| Given the hundreds of attacks on boats off the Iberian
| peninsula, including four sinkings, the lack of human deaths
| is partly a matter of luck.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_orca_attacks
| fainpul wrote:
| These are attacks on boats, not on humans.
|
| "Wild orcas have never been documented hunting or eating
| humans, so it is unlikely this relates to wanting a meal."
| (quote from
| https://www.newscientist.com/article/2378796-why-have-
| orcas-...)
| antonvs wrote:
| That would seem like an academic distinction to someone
| injured or killed during such an incident.
|
| Elephants that trample humans also aren't looking for a
| meal.
| bee_rider wrote:
| The original comment was:
|
| > It's a lot like when we "share" our worms with fish.
|
| So, it is a relevant distinction, the theory of that
| comment is that they are using them as bait for humans.
| That they aren't ever recorded as intentionally killing
| and eating humans is relevant.
|
| They fight boats for other reasons apparently, maybe they
| or territorial, or maybe the boats are making some
| annoying nose?
| antonvs wrote:
| Perhaps the bait is intended to attract boats.
| nkrisc wrote:
| Given that orcas are apex predators, I think it's
| worthwhile to make the distinction between death or
| injury of humans due to direct predation versus
| accidental or indirect means.
| JR1427 wrote:
| I wonder if they target boats using depth sounders? You
| could imagine the noise might be annoying or aggravating to
| orcas.
| gpderetta wrote:
| Maybe the Orcas are smart enough to make sure not to leave
| witnesses :D
| alwahi wrote:
| uh oh.... i guess the space highway got approved....
| xingped wrote:
| There's no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning
| charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local
| planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth
| years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal
| complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it
| now.
| fragmede wrote:
| And the humans say the _LLMs_ are the stoichastic parrots in
| the room...
| barrenko wrote:
| The only other species other than humans that has as long post-
| reproductive lives.
| card_zero wrote:
| I guess we don't have data for Greenland sharks.
| knome wrote:
| This is not correct in the least.
|
| As one of many, many examples, a galapagos turtle reaches
| sexual maturity at 20 to 25 years of age, and lives 100 to 200
| years.
| IAmBroom wrote:
| I think barrenko meant "lives after reproductive ability
| ends", and AFAIK Galapagos tortoises can reproduce at those
| ages. Certainly the males can, but so can 80yo human males.
| barrenko wrote:
| Something like that, I take full fault.
| calmbonsai wrote:
| Perhaps, what you mean, are the only other social mammals with
| K-population selection reproductive strategy?
|
| FWIW, elephants also fall into this category. It's theorized
| that "grandparents" are important cultural archives.
|
| Both orcas and elephants are also matriarchal.
| glitchc wrote:
| Perhaps you mean among mammalian species? Reptiles can live
| long lives and experience multiple reproductive cycles.
| Alligators technically live forever.
| giorgioz wrote:
| Orca Uses Bait To Hunt Bird
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14wWxaMR2Mg
|
| Orcas understand the concept of bait. It is possible the bird was
| either a gift or a bait to lure in a bigger prey.
| fainpul wrote:
| The birds in the video are out of reach (until one isn't). I'm
| sure orcas perceive humans in water as very slow and easy to
| catch - baiting would not make sense.
| bbarnett wrote:
| I wonder if we accidental scare or chase their predators
| away.
|
| Or, hmm. Orca are pack animals I believe. If we killed a
| competing family of Orca (even by accident), maybe the gift
| is a thanks for the perception of "siding with my family".
| rkomorn wrote:
| What preys on orcas? It seems like a bad idea.
| nkrisc wrote:
| I don't think there's much that will predate orcas, at
| least adults, other than perhaps humans or hypothetically
| other orcas.
|
| They are apex predators, they don't have natural predators.
| kamarg wrote:
| Humpback whales have been known to defend other animals
| from Orcas. The food of my enemy is my friend type of
| thing I guess.
| rkomorn wrote:
| The humpback whale and orca beef is kind of hilarious.
|
| Orcas are kind of assholes and it seems other animals
| care.
| s_dev wrote:
| Surely we can rule out bait if the cameraman is underwater with
| the Orca. At that point there isn't much stopping the Orca
| preying on the human especially if we're acknowledging their
| intelligence.
| Y-bar wrote:
| They apparently hunt Moose on occasion: https://www.forbes.co
| m/sites/scotttravers/2024/10/22/4-decad...
|
| (I know Forbes is not generally the best link, but the author
| of this article is an actual evolutionary biologist)
| s_dev wrote:
| The specific claim I'm disputing is that the Orca is using
| the 'gift' as 'bait' here. The implication that once the
| human bites or engages with the bait they are then preyed
| upon. The fact that moose are preyed upon by Orcas is
| irrelevant here.
| Y-bar wrote:
| The point I am trying to make is that Orcas can choose to
| prey on large land animals when they are in the water and
| that they are not using the gift as bait. Why do you
| think I am disagreeing with you?
| jibal wrote:
| Because he naturally assumed that you were attempting to
| say something relevant to his own claim rather than a
| complete non sequitur. Maybe in your head you intended to
| somehow make the point that they're not using the gift as
| bait but you didn't say anything of the sort so it wasn't
| your point as written. You also said nothing about humans
| and moose both being large land animals (and from the
| Orca's POV it's not likely that it considers humans to be
| land animals) and that therefore yada yada ... none of
| this was expressed.
|
| (I see quite a bit of this, where someone is called out
| and then they say "my point was X" where nothing they had
| said previously expressed X.)
| Y-bar wrote:
| Only on the internet will "here's a related example why
| you might be correct" result in strange discussions like
| these. Makes me sad.
| ugexe wrote:
| Only on the internet, where most of us (maybe even
| yourself) have the majority of our discussions?
| Y-bar wrote:
| I've been on the internet since the early 90:ies, and
| this does happen semi-regularly, especially during the
| last decade. But I have never in my life experienced such
| situations stemming from an agreeing
| reflection/interjection during face-to-face
| communication. Sometimes it feels like people are
| (un)intentionally looking for reasons to disagree rather
| than anything else.
| jfyi wrote:
| I agree with them, your original post lacked clarity. I
| propose that the reason these types of conversations are
| less likely in person is because there is typically no
| log of exactly what was said and people tend to get
| defensive and narratives change. This makes it a
| pointless endeavor.
|
| I would suggest, rather than wondering why people on the
| internet point things like this out, maybe wonder how
| many people in real life never bothered and just write
| you off.
| IAmBroom wrote:
| No, I've had those conversations IRL. Human communication
| is inherently fraught with misunderstandings.
| anonymars wrote:
| Consider instead reflecting on why your point was
| misunderstood?
|
| My reading was, that post said "I don't think it makes
| sense that it's bait, because the humans are already in
| the water and they aren't eating them"
|
| Then you said "Sometimes they eat moose"
|
| You did not provide the reader with any language or
| reasoning connecting those ideas, so it comes off as a
| non sequitur.
|
| Compare instead with something like, "Moreover, we know
| this isn't just because humans are land mammals, because
| they have eaten moose"
| scott_w wrote:
| Perhaps but it's the norm. I try to preface what I write
| with "I agree" just to try and clarify my position ahead
| of time. Remember that there's a bunch of context missing
| in text such as facial expressions, body language and
| tone of voice that would have quickly made clear that you
| were in agreement ;-)
| toast0 wrote:
| > Only on the internet will "here's a related example why
| you might be correct" result in strange discussions like
| these. Makes me sad.
|
| It would help if the comment said any of those quoted
| words. The context as I see it was:
|
| 1> they could be baiting the human
|
| 2> why bait the human and not eat it?
|
| 3> They hunt moose
|
| With no further words, it could be intended as they hunt
| moose, so they clearly like surf and turf and would love
| to eat a human. Or it could be intended as they hunt
| moose, they know how to hunt land animals so it's a
| choice to give a gift that'a not bait.
|
| In person, someone hearing the 3rd comment would probably
| make a confused face and the person making the offering
| of a moose reference would make clarifying comments.
| krisoft wrote:
| It is not that surprising that this kind of
| misunderstanding happens more often on the internet. In
| real life we communicate with more than just our words.
| We see how our communication partners say what they say,
| where they are looking, what cadence and tone they use.
| We also see what faces they make while the other person
| was talking, how alert they were.
|
| When all of that is missing it is harder to glean the
| tenor or direction of the message.
|
| And then on top of that there is a thing I would call
| "expectation bias". We expect to see something, and when
| what we see does not match our expectations we sometimes
| become blind to that. Conversations on this site very
| often go "argument - counter argument - counter counter
| argument - counter counter counter argument". Because of
| that people (me included!) often read comments with the
| expectation that it will at least in some way disagree
| with what was said before. And once someone has that
| expectation it is easy to misread a supporting comment as
| a weird and under-argued disagreement.
|
| > Makes me sad.
|
| I do understand. And you are not wrong. Misunderstandings
| are sad. It seems we sometimes forget that there is an
| other human being on the other side of the screen too. So
| sadness is not unwarranted sometimes.
|
| But on a constructive level we can recognise where the
| confusion slips in and we can add extra words to help
| lubricate the discussion. I often start my comments with
| stating my level of agreement. (From "Yes, you are 100%
| right..." via "You are mostly right, but I disagree with
| X" to "No, I'm afraid that is not true at all") Basically
| typing more characters because others can't see my
| gestures, and can't hear the tenor of my voice.
|
| For example in this case you could have wrote: "I agree
| that an orca probably doesn't see a human diver as a
| significant threat, and wouldn't need to use a bait to
| attack it. After all they are known to attack moose too!
| ..." (As an example. Of course I don't know if that is
| what you were actually thinking.)
|
| Could your comment been understood in an ideal world even
| without that? I think so. Could it have been fortified
| with a few choice words to better signal that what you
| are providing are related examples to support the already
| stated argument? I would think so too.
| techterrier wrote:
| Never happened in the wild. The only recorded incidents of
| Orca attacking humans were in the aquariums.
| danw1979 wrote:
| It's up and down with these guys, either gifts of food or they're
| chewing off your rudder.
| yetihehe wrote:
| Just like humans vs birds. Some birds will see our good side
| (humans helped some birds with broken wings, fed some other
| birds), some will see our bad side (humans shooting birds).
| 28304283409234 wrote:
| Reminds me of the Killer whales of Eden, where for a period of 90
| years or so orcas would assist whalers in catching whales.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_Sou...
| lordnacho wrote:
| How do they decide who to offer stuff to? There's a bunch of
| creatures in the ocean, why would they offer things to humans?
|
| Also, do people ever give the orca anything they want?
| bee_rider wrote:
| Maybe they are just curious or doing it for whimsy sake. They
| have been observed to wear salmon on their heads for no
| apparent reason... we do all sorts of odd stuff due to a
| temporary surplus of brainpower.
| coef2 wrote:
| I found the news hilarious. Orcas used to wear salmon hats
| back in the 80s, then the trend disappeared, only to make a
| comeback in recent years. It really feels like they have
| their own version of human fashion trends or group behavior.
| The funniest part is that their fashion statement is a dead
| salmon instead of clothes.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20251001135117/https://www.natio.
| ..
| IAmBroom wrote:
| Leopard seals, the apex predator of the Sourthern Ocean near
| Antarctica, have been known to bring penguins as gifts to
| divers. When the divers didn't take the chicken dinner, they
| helpfully killed it, so the diver could eat.
|
| Disappointingly to them, no doubt, the divers still didn't dig
| in. But it's the thought that counts. Literally, since leopard
| seals can easily kill humans in the sea and on the land.
|
| Anyway, mammals are capable of thoughtful behaviors towards
| others outside their own species.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| As I'd just commented myself. Link: <https://www.nationalgeog
| raphic.com/adventure/article/140311-...>
| tdeck wrote:
| Cats do this, and they're less intelligent than orcas.
| tracker1 wrote:
| Dogs will too.
| sakesun wrote:
| Everybody want to be loved.
| reaanb2 wrote:
| Trying to placate the gods who are busy destroying their world...
| maxerickson wrote:
| I think they do have either instinctual or cultural knowledge
| that the soft slow things from above will bring death if they
| are offended.
| Peteragain wrote:
| Someone once pointed out to me that if sonar is your primary
| sensor, and sonar "sees" through things, human lungs look much
| like dolphin lungs - and orcas' presumably. We are one of them. A
| pretty feeble one of course, and perhaps one that needs feeding.
| bilsbie wrote:
| I thought they attacked dolphins?
| dredmorbius wrote:
| And whales, seals, otters, walruses, etc., all of which have
| lungs.
|
| I suspect some other basis.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| Sticking with the theory though: Maybe they can "see
| through" us enough to know we're literally just skin and
| dense bones with very little fat or calories.
| lupusreal wrote:
| Technically they are dolphins. But yes, _some_ populations of
| Orcas do eat other dolphins. Some don 't. Their feeding
| habits seem to be cultural.
| gspencley wrote:
| autism warning
|
| As most people understand the word "dolphin", Orcas are not
| technically dolphins though they belong to the same family.
|
| I've heard the claim that Orcas are a species of porpoise,
| like dolphins, but I can't even corroborate that since
| Wikipedia is claiming that porpoises are distinct from
| dolphins.
|
| The clearest explanation I've been able to find comes from
| this article: https://nextlevelsailing.com/relationship-
| between-orca-kille...
|
| > The classification of orcas as dolphins stems from their
| scientific categorization. Both orcas and dolphins fall
| under the family Delphinidae, which encompasses oceanic
| dolphins. Despite their formidable size and fearsome
| reputation, orcas share more in common with their smaller
| dolphin relatives than with other whale species.
|
| So Orcas and dolphins are both categorized in the family
| Delphinidae which is colloquially referred to as the
| "Oceanic Dolphins" so, depending on what you mean, yes
| Orcas are technically dolphins but then ... so are
| dolphins. Meaning that "dolphin" and "delphinidae" refer to
| two distinct things even though all dolphins are
| delphinidae and the colloquial term for "delphinidae" is
| "oceanic dolphin." But it's important to recognize that the
| oceanic dolphins is a pretty wide family that includes
| several species that have the word "whale" in their name,
| such as belugas and narwhals, in addition to orcas.
| lupusreal wrote:
| Tbh, just subjectively, they look a lot more dolphiny
| than whaley to me. They're like dolphins that hit the
| gym.
| snitch182 wrote:
| And the paint bucket.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Here's an interesting result of that: whales that have
| developed "internal antlers"
| (https://academic.oup.com/biolinnean/article-
| abstract/113/2/5...). Mostly invisible to eyes but perfectly
| visible to ears.
|
| Abstract:
|
| Skulls of many living and extinct beaked whales (Ziphiidae)
| contain various bizarre bone and tooth structures. Many of them
| show sexual dimorphism in their skull anatomy: males have
| bizarre skull structures, whereas females do not. Opinions
| differ as to what the function of these structures might be.
| Some believe that these are weapons; others, that they are
| sound transmitters. This article argues that these structures
| are the means of visual display. Many of the bizarre bone
| structures of beaked whales are not exposed like 'visuals' of
| terrestrial tetrapods, but are located deep in soft tissues.
| Nevertheless, toothed whales recognize objects (including
| three-dimensional bodies), using echolocation. So, along with
| visual means, they can 'see' and 'show' their internal bone
| structures with echoic imaging and use them as informational
| sources in social interactions and in individual or species
| recognition.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Leopard seals have been observed practicing similar behaviour:
|
| "How a Leopard Seal Fed Me Penguins" (2014)
|
| <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/140311-...>
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Fun video on that page.
| boilerupnc wrote:
| related farside:
|
| "The herring's nothin'. I'm going for the whole shmeer!" [0]
|
| [0] https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-
| content/uploads/2024/...
| K0balt wrote:
| Perhaps they heard about orcas attacking boats (again), and are
| working on maintaining good relations with a species that they
| can't help but notice impacts their wellbeing.
|
| Orcas (and whales in general) attacking boats died off steeply
| after the abandonment of whaling by most of the world. With orcas
| this makes perhaps a little less sense from an incentive
| standpoint, but it seems that whale attacks and specifically orca
| attack frequency moved more or less together.
|
| Recently there has been a rash of orcas attacking and sinking
| small yachts and boats around the Iberian peninsula, which is
| mostly attributed to juveniles within a certain cultural group.
| (Dolphin antifa lol?)
|
| Realistically though the gifting is probably not "politically
| motivated" lol. But with intelligent animals, I've found that
| it's very, very easy to underestimate the often surprising
| sophistication of their actions.
| krisoft wrote:
| > Orcas (and whales in general) attacking boats died off
| steeply after the abandonment of whaling by most of the world.
|
| That's interesting if true. What do you base this on? In other
| words: do you have a source for that?
| K0balt wrote:
| Only source is that I've been a sometimes-mariner and
| cruising family captain since the 80s, hearing about the
| reports on the cruiser HF nets, and gradually witnessing a
| change from often aggressive , sometimes disastrous
| encounters to mostly peaceful or even sometimes friendly or
| helpful encounters into the 2010's.
|
| I'm sure there is data somewhere, though. In the 90s, the
| gradual drop off in attacks was widely attributed to whales
| that witnessed whaling aging out. I doubt there is any
| scientific validation for this theory, but it is plausible as
| there are many accounts of whales with old whaling wounds
| being exceptionally aggressive, with some becoming legendary
| in their own right.
| missedthecue wrote:
| Orcas have been to known to intentionally assist whalers
| hunting for Baleen whales, so I don't know about this theory
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tom_(orca)
| xhkkffbf wrote:
| > could suggest they have theory of mind and engage in altruism -
| even across species
|
| I watched a pod of orcas kill a new born grey whale. They may
| have a different idea of "altruism" than we do.
| IAmBroom wrote:
| Plenty of "god-fearing", "ex-boyscouts" have engaged in
| massacres involving children as part of military actions.
|
| Humans are undoubtedly capable of altruism, and simultaneously
| capable of the most egregious acts of violence the world has
| ever known.
| HardCodedBias wrote:
| Clearly:
|
| https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmxCKbfV4AAA59g?format=jpg&name=...
| stevage wrote:
| Strange that the article keeps using the term killer whales.
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