[HN Gopher] How I influence tech company politics as a staff sof...
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       How I influence tech company politics as a staff software engineer
        
       Author : facundo_olano
       Score  : 242 points
       Date   : 2025-10-04 15:09 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.seangoedecke.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.seangoedecke.com)
        
       | vcryan wrote:
       | Politics is inescapable. Software engineers can't live outside of
       | them. Whether these are the team politics, org politics, etc.
       | 
       | I don't think engineers are universality bad/good at politics.
       | It's just like anything else, takes practice.
        
         | woadwarrior01 wrote:
         | There's a way out. Build your own company and make it something
         | beneath you.
        
           | antasvara wrote:
           | If you have other people working at your company or
           | investors, politics will come into play.
           | 
           | It's rare to have a CEO that can decide things 100% by
           | themselves and still retain talented employees. It's also
           | super rare to have investors with zero desire to determine a
           | company's direction.
        
           | j16sdiz wrote:
           | On that level, there are other policies.
           | 
           | Politics in standards bodies, industrial organisations,
           | regulatory issues, funding and investment, etc
        
           | kylecazar wrote:
           | When I've reported to founders they were front and center in
           | the politics (which is probably how it should be).
           | 
           | Becoming a career CEO might be a way out, though.
        
           | azemetre wrote:
           | There's an even better way out, implement workplace
           | democracy.
        
           | eptcyka wrote:
           | Yeah, and you can also get rid of local politics by moving to
           | the countryside and homesteading. And you can bypass national
           | politics by homesteading on a ship or an island that nobody
           | cares about. And you can just move to a different planet to
           | escape global politics. But any group of people will develop
           | some form of politics, and to do anything meaningful
           | longterm, you need a group of people, not just an individual,
           | why not get better at politics? It is inevitable you will
           | have to take part in them.
           | 
           | But of course, I still want my hut in the woods.
        
         | AaronAPU wrote:
         | I am a solo founder literally to avoid ever having to deal with
         | politics and video calls.
        
           | desireco42 wrote:
           | amen brother :)
        
         | vinnymac wrote:
         | I used to run my own business when I was a child, and made a
         | lot of money from it. Paid my way through school with my
         | earnings. There was no sales or marketing, and all I did was
         | product and engineering, and at no point was I politicking. So
         | no, it's possible (albeit difficult) to not be part of the meat
         | grinder, I have done it.
        
         | elktown wrote:
         | Sure, to some degree it will always be there. But company size
         | and careerist culture - both local to the company and
         | differences between countries - makes it vastly different in
         | presence.
        
         | bdangubic wrote:
         | politics is 100% escapable
        
       | eschneider wrote:
       | Yeah, this approach largely works.
        
       | hkon wrote:
       | Where is the influence?
        
         | tayo42 wrote:
         | Instead of waiting to be told what to do and being cynical
         | about bad ideas coming up when there's a vacumn and not doing
         | what he wants to do, the author keeps a back log of good and
         | important ideas that he waits to bring up for when someone
         | important says something is priority. He gets what he wants
         | done, compromising on timing.
        
           | anticristi wrote:
           | "He gets what he wants done, compromising on timing." is a
           | really good summary!
        
       | zug_zug wrote:
       | I think this is largely practical advice if you want to influence
       | a tech company at all costs. That is -- to have multiple projects
       | lined for each executive goal that you can singlehandedly deliver
       | on to thunderous applause.
       | 
       | That said, it's often easier said than done. We've all worked at
       | places where projects were canceled 3 months in due to all sorts
       | of reasons (e.g. security breach changes all priorities, nobody
       | cares about your database change now).
       | 
       | So I do think there comes a point where an engineer asks
       | themselves -- "How many projects do I have to prepare, how many
       | stakeholders do I have to convince, how many wins do I need
       | before I see tangible benefits commensurate with my investment?"
       | What if I just let the executives set the course and provide my
       | insight if asked, and still get 90% of the pay.
       | 
       | Ultimately this is a guide to work successfully within a
       | dysfunctional system, but nonetheless great advice for that.
        
       | SeanAnderson wrote:
       | Man, I must not have worked at dysfunctional enough companies. I
       | can't relate to the opening remarks in this article at all. I'm
       | used to really open communication from the top down and, even
       | when we build in a direction I disagree with, we've discussed
       | things enough that I'm at least interested in seeing why someone
       | else I consider intelligent sees the world so differently.
       | Perhaps it has to do with only working for companies founded by
       | engineers rather than product/marketing? I'm not really sure.
        
         | mewpmewp2 wrote:
         | What size companies have you worked at?
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | Relatively small. 50-100 people. I could see it being totally
           | different at larger companies, but gosh it sounds miserable!
        
         | bbminner wrote:
         | I suppose that's because higher level VPs at large companies
         | have broad goals and even broader notion means. It is not
         | necessarily bad - allows to fiddle with different approaches
         | before locking in on a specific technique. Wasteful? Yes.
         | Efficient at satisfying board mandates informed by real time
         | tectonic shifts in the industry? Also yes.
        
         | apwell23 wrote:
         | > I can't relate to the opening remarks in this article at all.
         | 
         | i am guessing you never got promoted at work?
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | I was a staff engineer at my last employer
        
             | apwell23 wrote:
             | so am i but i got it through switching jobs. staff at 50ppl
             | startup is just a junior. we had fresh grads with staff
             | title.
        
               | esafak wrote:
               | > we had fresh grads with staff title.
               | 
               | Your company was doing it wrong.
        
               | apwell23 wrote:
               | for sure. but thats not relevant to the point i was
               | making.
        
       | getnormality wrote:
       | It seems like this post can be summarized as follows:
       | 
       | 1. If your manager has something in particular they want you to
       | do, you should do it.
       | 
       | 2. If your manager _doesn 't_ have something in particular they
       | want you to do, you should figure out what they will want you to
       | do in the _future_ , and make any necessary preparations so that
       | it will be doable when they want it.
       | 
       | I'd say it's good advice. The only thing I would add is that
       | managers and leadership are _sometimes_ happy to be given
       | something different than what they _asked for_ , so long as it's
       | still what they _wanted_ at a higher level. This is risky, but
       | success can be a fast track to respect and autonomy.
        
         | Trasmatta wrote:
         | I would rather not live my life with the sole purpose of people
         | pleasing managers
        
           | okdood64 wrote:
           | What? This is what you are paid to do in your work life.
           | 
           | This isn't a thread about your whole life.
        
           | smallnix wrote:
           | In case you can share an alternate strategy to make a career
           | in a large tech company, please do, would be interested.
        
             | Trasmatta wrote:
             | That's the crux. I don't want a career in a large tech
             | company.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | Is working in a _small_ tech company any different?
        
               | Trasmatta wrote:
               | Not really, I'd love to get out of tech entirely.
        
               | rjh29 wrote:
               | Massively different. You generally have more autonomy,
               | fewer managers, more responsibility and wear more hats.
               | In my experience no corporate fake people pleasing or PR
               | language or HR nonsense. Just regular people talking
               | normally trying to get stuff done.
        
               | jcheng wrote:
               | It's SO different. It doesn't guarantee that life is
               | good, but politics plays a much smaller role, especially
               | at the very small sizes. If you're objectively awesome,
               | the chances of you being sidelined for political reasons
               | is pretty low when there are like 10 people in the whole
               | company. It's just obvious to everyone who is delivering
               | value and who is not.
               | 
               | Conversely, if you're mediocre, there's nowhere to hide.
               | 
               | Or maybe instead of saying there aren't politics at small
               | companies, it's more accurate to say that there are
               | politics, but they're simple--everyone strives to make
               | the (hopefully benevolent) dictator, I mean founder,
               | happy. If your founder is awesome, life is good. If your
               | founder is not awesome, well, everyone is going to have a
               | bad time anyway.
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | > but politics plays a much smaller role, especially at
               | the very small sizes.
               | 
               | I thoroughly believed this after working at a small
               | company with little politics in one of my first jobs.
               | 
               | But then a couple of the later small companies/startups I
               | worked for had politics to such an insane degree that I
               | no longer believe small companies are better or worse in
               | general. They just have a larger variance.
               | 
               | The larger the company, the more the workforce trends
               | toward the mean. When you hire 10,000 people you can't
               | exclusively build a company of low-politics people.
               | 
               | With a 10-person company you technically _can_ build that
               | company of mostyl 1-in-100 employees who work well
               | together. However, you could also stumble into a company
               | where you 're working with 10 people who have worked
               | together previously and have no intention of bringing you
               | into their inner circle. The politics at this latter type
               | of company is truly next level hell because there's
               | nowhere to go, unlike at a big company or FAANG where you
               | can transfer teams or rely on your resume to get you into
               | the application process at another company easily.
               | 
               | > It's just obvious to everyone who is delivering value
               | and who is not.
               | 
               | In my experience at highly political small companies,
               | this doesn't matter. The people running the political
               | show want the upper echelon of the company to be composed
               | of their close friends and allies. They _want_ the people
               | who produce to be stuck doing the grunt work.
        
               | crystal_revenge wrote:
               | > but politics plays a much smaller role
               | 
               | This does not align with my experience at small tech
               | companies at all, and I've worked an _many_.
               | 
               | But the flavor of the politics is very different. At a
               | small company as an IC you will very likely be working
               | directly with multiple C-levels, often providing
               | important context between them. A senior IC will need to
               | be reaching out pretty actively across teams to make sure
               | things are happening and you'll quickly build an internal
               | network of "good people who get shit done fast".
               | 
               | Politics can seem _no existent_ because in some cases
               | just getting along well with leadership can be enough to
               | make your life very easy. But you 'll see how truly
               | political these situations are if you have the opposite
               | situation: someone in leadership just _doesn 't_ like
               | you. One bad relationship can ruin you in a small
               | company.
               | 
               | In a large company it's not too hard to just keep your
               | head down (at least as an IC) and largely let your
               | manager worry about politics. For managers it can seem
               | more political because typically the "be friends with
               | leadership" doesn't work because the hierarchy is both
               | broader and deeper.
        
               | ikiris wrote:
               | > Conversely, if you're mediocre, there's nowhere to
               | hide.
               | 
               | This line alone makes me believe you've never worked at
               | small companies.
               | 
               | Small companies are where people who don't have better
               | options go to coast either voluntarily, or involuntarily.
        
               | crystal_revenge wrote:
               | Wildly different. One of the biggest things at a small
               | company is that you can wear multiple hats to solve a
               | problem and _not step on anyone 's toes_. Need to play
               | PM, backend engineer and data scientist to get a product
               | shipped fast? No problem, and you'll be seen as a person
               | who can get things done by leadership (if you make sure
               | to keep your work visible).
               | 
               | The main divide I've seen between what makes people happy
               | in one or the other style tech company is whether they
               | really enjoy _solving problems_ or _doing their job_. If
               | you want to check in, do only what is technically
               | required of you and get out, then big tech corp is for
               | you. If you are mainly interested in finding solutions to
               | problems and you are happy to employ whatever is
               | necessary to do so, you 'll have more enjoy small
               | companies much more.
        
               | mystifyingpoi wrote:
               | > I don't want a career in a large tech company
               | 
               | I would swear by this when I started working in IT, but
               | 3y later I changed job and took a gig at a big
               | corporation. It was eye opening and jaw dropping.
               | Everything was lightyears ahead in terms of tech,
               | management, money, investments in people, and much more
               | compared to the small company. It geniuinely made me mad
               | for not doing this sooner.
        
               | crystal_revenge wrote:
               | Strange, I've had the opposite experience: I've mostly
               | worked with small startups and every few job changes will
               | try a go at a big tech company. I'm always shocked at the
               | gap in talent between small startups and large tech
               | companies. Far and away all of the best and most talented
               | coworkers I've had have been at small startups.
               | 
               | Of course there's _a lot_ of variance among small
               | companies (much moreso than large ones). But the one
               | thing that all small companies have is _people who can
               | actually get shit done_ not matter what it requires. The
               | amount of  "not my lane" nonsense that occupies corporate
               | life is both exhausting and boring. I understand why this
               | exists for practical reasons, but it's no fun.
        
             | bdangubic wrote:
             | you should do _everything possible_ to make a career in a
             | small company. after three decades as SWE it is my #1
             | (there is not even remotely close #2) advise for everyone
             | in the early stages of their career
        
               | andrew_lettuce wrote:
               | The politics in small companies are far more extreme in
               | my experience.
        
             | exodust wrote:
             | The alternate strategy is loyalty to "the business" rather
             | than any particular person.
             | 
             | When you're invested in the success of the business above
             | all else, and you make that known, you'll carve out a
             | position where you're valued.
             | 
             | Not because you went on a "carving out your importance"
             | mission, but because your energy goes into your work, and
             | the details and care for the long term business objectives.
             | Also... you can then enjoy yourself more, which opens
             | creativity which opens innovation. Sometimes this might
             | mean disagreeing with managers or working on stuff nobody
             | really knows you're working on right now.
             | 
             | > _" So if you want to get something technical done in a
             | tech company, you ought to wait for the appropriate wave"_
             | 
             | No. That doesn't work. You have to start building it. Don't
             | wait.
        
               | YZF wrote:
               | I agree with this. That's been my take throughput my
               | pretty long career and was a recipe for success.
               | 
               | You still need to:
               | 
               | 1. Be good at what you do.
               | 
               | 2. Be good at politics/communication when that's needed.
               | 
               | 3. Be in an organization that has good people and also
               | cares. There are organizations where there's just a
               | complete disconnect from the business for various
               | reasons. Dysfunctional.
        
               | rafaelero wrote:
               | This is a good strategy, imo. I was following it for
               | almost a year and I was having a blast working in a
               | startup. Then a new manager came along and started to
               | dictate how things should be done without much input from
               | the technical team. I kept fighting for what I thought
               | was good for the product instead of aligning with him. In
               | the end it was just too stressful (the manager was not
               | only an idiot but also rude). I resigned, but I wouldn't
               | have done any other way. I simply can't be made to do
               | dumb things from uncurious people.
        
             | georgeburdell wrote:
             | I don't know if it's different, but I always carve out
             | about a day a week to work on "skunkworks" projects that
             | will benefit my team but that nobody has asked for yet.
             | Then, when it does get asked for, I have a rough solution
             | ready to go.
        
           | tamimio wrote:
           | "You lack soft skills and initiative; unfortunately, you will
           | not be promoted while having more responsibilities" - the
           | manager who wants to be pleased.
           | 
           | One time a manager hinted to me to be a snitch on my
           | coworkers just so he could see I have "leader" attributes to
           | get promoted later. Stay away from corps..
        
           | chausen wrote:
           | It doesn't have to be your some purpose; it could be within
           | your normal working hours. It's basically just choosing a
           | goal to be intentional with at work.
        
           | marcinzm wrote:
           | No matter what founders and managers say the reality is that
           | 95% of tech jobs are meaningless outside the capitalistic
           | flywheel. You're not making the world a better place. You're
           | moving some bits around and extracting a profit from it.
           | Pleasing a manager or pleasing the capitalistic flywheel
           | doesn't seem much different to me.
        
           | 010101010101 wrote:
           | This makes for a pithy sound bite, but that's pretty much
           | only possible if you're independently wealthy to the point of
           | being in the "fuck you money" category of wealth.
           | 
           | There's no part of expecting people to hand you money that
           | doesn't obviously lead to your sole purpose being to please
           | those people. Even if you're a solo contractor you're going
           | to spend your time pleasing clients - sure, you can shed bad
           | ones more easily than you can a bad manager, but you're still
           | beholden to someone who controls the purse. If you found a
           | start up you're pleasing your investors. If you're a CEO of a
           | large company you're pleasing your board.
           | 
           | Work is just the act of pleasing other people in specific
           | ways based on your skillset.
        
         | codazoda wrote:
         | I read number 2 more as being ready with your own agenda items.
         | For example, if you want to make a code base more minimal, have
         | a POC and some details worked out for when the opportunity
         | presents itself.
         | 
         | If you have something prepared and then there's a site speed,
         | SEO, or series of bug complaints you might be able to pitch
         | your minimal ideas as part of that solution.
         | 
         | I like the concept but I don't know how well it would work in
         | practice or how I would document my preparations for some point
         | in the future. I do often wonder if I should run my work a bit
         | like I run my blog though, generating documents about why and
         | how. Maybe keeping them in wait for that opportunity.
         | 
         | That could be a lot of extra work that never sees the light,
         | but we probably do a lot of that anyway?
        
           | bradlys wrote:
           | To flesh out things to where you could actually make a
           | reasonable pitch with things like realistic time estimates
           | and documents that would be useful to read then you'd have to
           | have already done it, it'd be trivial, or you apparently have
           | plenty of spare time to do serious spikes in your day to day.
           | You'd also have to have the spare time to update these
           | project ideas as the months pass, the product and codebase
           | changes, etc.
           | 
           | I'm often convinced people extrapolate their insane luck with
           | teams+companies and assume every other company/team can
           | replicate their results. I have a hard time finding people in
           | high level positions who give the slightest of fucks about
           | engineering focused tasks but I am someone who works on
           | product teams. The target goal is always about making money -
           | not saving money or improving velocity.
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | > if you want to make a code base more minimal, have a POC
           | and some details worked out for when the opportunity presents
           | itself.
           | 
           | Why would you want to do that? You will not get the cream for
           | such work. From experience, you'll never get recognition for
           | these things, you will never get paid more and most certainly
           | they may dump more work at you.
           | 
           | Taking initiative and improving something never pays off to
           | you.
           | 
           | Unless you are the type of person that looks out of the
           | window at the company car park and sees board member in a
           | branch new Lambo and then say to yourself proudly "I did
           | that".
        
         | akudha wrote:
         | Or better options - just do the job you were hired for and go
         | home or find that rare job (if possible) where engineering has
         | a bigger role than politics. It is not pleasant to play a
         | guessing game trying to please some manager, just because
         | they're your boss.
         | 
         | Life is too short for stupid games
        
           | andrew_lettuce wrote:
           | If you think corporate politics is just a stupid game you'll
           | never be happy with what you accomplish and lucky to keep
           | your job. Awareness and understanding, being able to tie
           | effort to outcomes, positioning and sales; these are not
           | guessing games.
        
           | marcinzm wrote:
           | > engineering has a bigger role than politics
           | 
           | I've never seen two people fight to the death over something
           | meaningless as much as some engineers do. Politics is the end
           | product of multiple people working together with different
           | views. Engineering doesn't save you from it. Engineers who
           | think it does tend to cause more political turmoil in teams
           | than anyone else.
        
         | andrew_lettuce wrote:
         | I'll add that all this goes up the food chain and is good
         | advice for engineering managers too. As a director reporting to
         | the CTO I tried to do this as well.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | I'd add:
         | 
         | Don't do things those with more political power than you
         | manager don't want done unless someone with even more power
         | publicly tells you to. That doesn't mean you do what they want
         | done but simply that you avoid pissing them off.
         | 
         | Enemies are rarely worth making and the majority of managers
         | will throw you under the bus to save their own skin in that
         | situation.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > 1. If your manager has something in particular they want you
         | to do, you should do it.
         | 
         | This point seems obvious, but it's one topics I've had to coach
         | many early career people on over and over again.
         | 
         | Many of the people who were having difficulties or heading
         | toward PIP could be turned around by implementing a simple loop
         | where they:
         | 
         | 1. Ask their manager for the top priority, explicitly. Re-
         | confirm the top priority every time you encounter a question
         | about what to work on or new information that might change the
         | situation.
         | 
         | 2. Write it down. Put it somewhere visible. Check it every
         | morning. Remind yourself about the top priority.
         | 
         | 3. Do the top priority until it's done. Confirm that your
         | manager agrees that it's done when you think it's done.
         | 
         | It sounds simple to those of us who internalized these loops
         | early in our careers, but some people don't see it so clearly
         | until it's laid out for them. They get distracted, go on side
         | quests, take too many tasks from people who aren't their
         | manager, or avoid their manager's requests in favor of a task
         | they find more interesting.
        
           | gmfawcett wrote:
           | Very well expressed. That's great early-career guidance, but
           | also a good refresher for many senior staff.
        
           | notyourwork wrote:
           | As a former engineer who recently transitioned to management,
           | this is precisely how engineers who are competent are
           | perceived as underachieving. Focus on the right problems, put
           | side quests on the back burner.
        
           | maccard wrote:
           | I completely agree. I've foudn that skill never goes away no
           | matter how far you get. The trick is as you go higher up,
           | spotting what comes next and knowing how to solve it faster.
           | 
           | > They get distracted, go on side quests, take too many tasks
           | from people who aren't their manager, or avoid their
           | manager's requests in favor of a task they find more
           | interesting.
           | 
           | I had a great manager when I was fresh and I watched _someone
           | else_ on the team go down this path and succeed. I know now
           | that the difference was that they knew what was going to bite
           | us in 2 weeks /2 months, and that it was partially experience
           | and partially they had info on where the project was going
           | that I didn't. But had I looked at what they were doing and
           | mimic'ed it, I would have failed.
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | I lean towards telling your manager what they should want. Put
         | issues that you identify as important on the table and draw
         | attention to them. Explain why they're important. Make them
         | benefit from your expertise by being proactive about this sort
         | of thing.
         | 
         | My experience is still fairly limited with this, but I do have
         | some successes.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | If you are not a shareholder, then it is an incredibly poor
         | advice.
         | 
         | 1. Only do bare minimum. They key is to keep your manager
         | unhappy, but not unhappy enough to fire you.
         | 
         | 2. If there is nothing in particular to do, always spend time
         | on things that will benefit you directly. For instance, upskill
         | to find a better job, read, volunteer or even simply entertain
         | yourself to keep mental health in check.
         | 
         | Before you do something, always ask yourself a question: am I
         | paid enough to do this? Answer is almost always: No.
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | This is usually in big corps, so if you like working in these
       | hellholes, then proceed with all these shenanigans. I worked
       | there before and it's not really good for engineering, let alone
       | engineers' mindset, because in addition to the actual technical
       | stress, now you have to deal with all this bs from people who do
       | nothing all day but these games. Small companies are the best for
       | me, and I remember one time in a small company they hired a
       | manager from a corp. In a year, he managed to fuck up everything,
       | 4 engineers left including myself, and turned the work culture
       | into rules and policies instead of adults working with each other
       | towards a common goal.
        
         | mewpmewp2 wrote:
         | The only problem is that big corps can pay so much more...
        
       | Jgrubb wrote:
       | > The important thing is to have a detailed, effective program of
       | work ready to go for whatever the flavor of the month is.
       | 
       | This is basically my theory of how things get done in Washington.
       | There's no grand plan most of the time, just an army of
       | operatives ready with a slide deck to pitch when the conditions
       | for an idea present themselves.
        
         | masfuerte wrote:
         | Not just a slide deck. The lobbyists have already written the
         | legislation.
        
       | awill88 wrote:
       | Based lol
        
       | moandcompany wrote:
       | Understand what your boss's boss cares about and make sure your
       | work can described in relation to those goals or concerns.
        
       | MarkMarine wrote:
       | One of my favorite quotes: " Only a crisis--actual or perceived--
       | produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that
       | are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I
       | believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to
       | existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the
       | politically impossible becomes politically inevitable." - Milton
       | Friedman
       | 
       | I've found writing 1 pagers and technical documents that I can
       | circulate, and then re-reference when there is a crisis is the
       | way to have my ideas floating around at the time. I've had some
       | success driving the architecture I want iteratively, slowly
       | progressing towards my goals by building consensus but I've also
       | been owned by VPs and directors that are much better at politics
       | than I am. Having the library of 1 pagers, sending them around so
       | they are latently in the air, and waiting for the impetus to
       | execute on that idea has been much more successful.
        
         | elevatortrim wrote:
         | Do you mean if 1-pagers helped you get recognition and advance
         | your career, or if they helped your ideas come to life?
        
           | MarkMarine wrote:
           | They helped my ideas be "lying around" and picked from when
           | the crisis happened.
           | 
           | In the source, the author says that when there is a crisis
           | (an outage or similar) management will come to you and ask
           | for help solving the problem and you should already have a
           | solution ready to go. What I've found is that you should pre-
           | seed your solutions with 1 pagers. Identify things that need
           | to be improved, changes to solve tomorrow's problems and just
           | take the extra step of writing a 1 pager about it and
           | circulate it. Then when the problem happens that your
           | solution fixes, your fix is already there ready to be fully
           | fleshed out.
        
             | anon84873628 wrote:
             | Absolutely! I thought this was inherent in the Staff
             | Engineer position in the first place, so was sort of
             | surprised it needed to be stated in the article.
        
               | MarkMarine wrote:
               | I didn't get a manual, just sharing what works for me so
               | the next (new) staff and principals have one more data
               | point.
        
         | YZF wrote:
         | I like the quote and I think this can work. The problem is the
         | timescales can drive you crazy. The other problem is sometimes
         | crisis is ignored, i.e. there is a crisis but it's not
         | acknowledged or is somehow otherwise normalized.
        
       | posix86 wrote:
       | The biggest political capital that you can build up is your
       | technical understanding & skills. But they are only useful
       | insofar as you put them into the context of the broader company
       | strategy. Giving appropriate advice, and delivering, in the
       | interest of the company, will give you capital, i.e., people
       | listening to you & relying on you, trusting you, which gives you
       | power to steer. Preparing contingency plans & pitching then, then
       | executing them, is the best way.
        
         | codazoda wrote:
         | > Preparing contingency plans & pitching then, then executing
         | them, is the best way
         | 
         | I'm interested in hearing more about how you execute on this.
         | Where/how do you keep your plans in wait?
        
       | softwaredoug wrote:
       | IMO the best you can do:
       | 
       | - Ship often to prod (don't do theoretical work).
       | 
       | - Ship wins (as defined by generally acceptable metrics.)
       | 
       | - Have someone in management or a PM who is good at selling your
       | wins
       | 
       | Even here, though, you will run into problems. There is always a
       | new VP or leader looking to make an impact. Because you maintain
       | the current systems your team is engaging in WrongThink and new
       | VP has shiny new RightThink (AI, etc). As soon as your code hits
       | prod you have "legacy" code.
       | 
       | New VP can make promises of future, theoretical riches that you
       | can't compete with, as you maintain the boring, current reality.
       | Reality is not sexy or interesting. You're in the old guard now.
       | 
       | A lot simply boils down to patronage. Making your higher up VP
       | look successful and being in a position to move with them to
       | their new company.
        
         | gjgtcbkj wrote:
         | This could not be more true, however the id like to add the
         | patronage goes farther up the chain. They are all just saying
         | want they need to to clear the checks. It an executive has ever
         | actually invented a successful business model I have yet to
         | meet one.
        
           | jakeydus wrote:
           | Oh they have invented a successful business model, it's just
           | that it's successful for those in executive positions. The
           | whole C-suite mentality is as successful for execs as it is
           | cancerous for everyone else.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > - Have someone in management or a PM who is good at selling
         | your wins
         | 
         | Looking back on my career, one of the single biggest changes I
         | could have made to improve my success was escaping teams with
         | bad PMs as fast as possible.
         | 
         | Great PMs improve everything, but they're hard to find. I spent
         | too much time sticking around on teams where bad PMs were
         | driving us in the wrong direction and failing to interface
         | effectively with the rest of the management team. As soon as
         | something changed that removed those PMs from the situation,
         | everything improved.
        
           | awesome_dude wrote:
           | This is why I almost gave up SWE. My skills, abilities, and
           | output had little to nothing to do with my career trajectory,
           | it's only about getting higher ups to sing praises about
           | things that I might not have even done.
           | 
           | Add to that when a new/junior manager comes along, they're
           | too busy trying to show everyone that they're the centre of
           | the universe for any actual progress to be made.
           | 
           | Edits: typos and spellchecker being too smart so words
           | injected that didn't make sense
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | > it's only about getting higher ups to sing praises about
             | things that I might not have even done.
             | 
             | If a company is so broken that promotions are decided based
             | on factually incorrect information, there's nothing to do
             | other than escape to a different company.
             | 
             | I'm talking about companies that are functioning okay, but
             | they let the PMs drive what the team works on. A bad PM
             | will send the entire team in the wrong direction and waste
             | your time.
             | 
             | In the most extreme example, our PM would get distracted
             | from the goals set by management and want us to do side
             | quests all the time, so the entire team was constantly
             | producing things that management didn't want while missing
             | all of the things they wanted us to do. If your PM is the
             | link between management and the team's directions, a bad PM
             | will sink the team.
        
               | awesome_dude wrote:
               | I'm in Australia, and I've yet to find a company that
               | isn't broken.
        
               | idiotsecant wrote:
               | All companies are broken. Many companies are broken in
               | ways that are tolerable or even decent.
        
               | awesome_dude wrote:
               | Look, if everyone could just run their companies how _I_
               | think that they should be run we 'd all be happy :)
        
               | aianus wrote:
               | Have you tried working at a company with less than ~30
               | people total? Those have been the best in my experience.
        
               | maccard wrote:
               | If everywhere you look stinks, it's time to look under
               | your own shoe.
               | 
               | No company is perfect, no team is perfect, no person
               | magically knows what's right to do and has a perfect
               | vision. Even if you get somewhere with the right team,
               | right vision and right priorities, and you stick with
               | them, the world will change and one of those will end up
               | incorrect.
        
           | whstl wrote:
           | Totally agree. Having good PMs (and good designers) is indeed
           | life changing.
           | 
           | And I mean it, it's a change like "going home at 5PM instead
           | of crunching to deliver every other day".
           | 
           | The planning and the selling of the feature make rework much
           | less necessary, plus you can work together and define tasks
           | in a way that are more appropriate for the current software,
           | rather than being stuck in a hamster wheel of changes that
           | don't really push the product forward.
        
         | halper wrote:
         | I liked how you phrased that: "promises of future ... you can't
         | compete with". That happens so often, and strangely the
         | argument that those promises have never become real the
         | previous 26 times never works. The glorious future sure is
         | amazing!
        
         | atomicnumber3 wrote:
         | I think you're absolutely correct and I think it goes one step
         | higher level too.
         | 
         | As a staff engineer, it's very important to make sure people
         | know _you are not the code_. The code is just a liability - as
         | you said, it 's legacy the second it hits prod.
         | 
         | I've found its best to position yourself not as on the side of
         | the "code" but as a EQUAL PARTNER to leadership/product/whoever
         | has power. It's often just a framing problem, too! You can do
         | nearly the exact same things as if you were the BOFH. But just
         | positioning yourself so that leaders see you as an ally in
         | shipping product and impact, vs someone they have to bully to
         | get approvals from on "just building the damn product." Makes
         | it night and day.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | >its best to position yourself not as on the side of the
           | "code" but as a EQUAL PARTNER to leadership/product/whoever
           | has power.
           | 
           | That sounds so utopian to me that it's practically
           | ridiculous. Never in my 40+ years working in tech has any
           | higher-up treated me or thought of me as anywhere near equal.
           | I try to treat the people on my team that I manage as close
           | to equal as I can, but the higher ups would really have zero
           | compunction about "letting me go" in favor of the new hot
           | whoever that someone introduced them to recently, or
           | whatever. They very rarely listen to reason about any issue
           | and it's rare that I'd even get to talk to them.
           | 
           | It's been like this at every startup and company I've ever
           | worked for.
        
         | cactusplant7374 wrote:
         | I have never heard of theoretical work but I have heard of
         | shipping every day. I don't know how often you think is often.
         | But in other places I know people are shipping every day.
         | 
         | It's not ideal to ship often IMO. How could someone ship
         | something substantial in one day? I work on projects that
         | generate the company additional revenue and if those projects
         | took one day to complete they would fire me because they would
         | really only need a software engineer for four days of the year.
         | 
         | It's a vanity metric.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > Ship often to prod (don't do theoretical work).
         | 
         | > New VP can make promises of future, theoretical riches that
         | you can't compete with
         | 
         | Why is theoretical work advantageous to the VP when he does it
         | but disadvantageous to you when you do it?
        
           | apwell23 wrote:
           | because thats their job description and not yours
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | What would it look like if you were a staff software
             | engineer whose job description didn't include theoretical
             | work, but whose output consisted almost entirely of
             | theoretical work?
             | 
             | That's not an issue of losing political battles, that's an
             | issue of you getting fired very rapidly.
             | 
             | This advice is entirely premised on the idea that you can
             | choose to do theoretical work if you want to, but that it
             | will be a bad idea.
        
           | softwaredoug wrote:
           | The VP is likely to get political backing to do a "big
           | change" and leverage resources to make it not theoretical.
        
       | apwell23 wrote:
       | glad to see someone being real and not parroting infuriating
       | "politics is just learning how to interact with other humans
       | narrative" .
       | 
       | politics at work isn't any different than any other politics. Its
       | not a spl breed of politics thats more pure and noble.
       | 
       | succeeding at workplace politics requires the same skills of
       | identifying who to suck up to, who to eliminate and who can be
       | trampled over to get where you want.
        
       | johnfn wrote:
       | A lot of the frustration I typically hear in this camp is
       | something like "well I shipped a huge refactor that cleaned up
       | all the code, why does no one appreciate that?" One particular
       | interaction that got me thinking was a few years ago listening to
       | an acquaintance telling me how he spent months meticulously
       | cleaning up the data pipeline and making it perfect, and how no
       | one appreciated this work.
       | 
       | Like, as an engineer, I don't doubt that this work is valuable.
       | But you have to imagine what it must sound like from the
       | perspective of a PM or EM. Itd be like my PM saying "I spent the
       | last month organizing all eng docs to be properly formatted with
       | bullet points." You'd be like, uhh, okay, but how does that
       | affect the rest of the company? More importantly, how does the PM
       | distinguish engineers who are doing impactful work from the
       | engineers who are doing the "bullet point formatting" work, of
       | which surely some exist? From the perspective of a PM, these
       | types of work can be hard to tell apart.
       | 
       | Really what you want to do is articulate what you plan to do,
       | ahead of time, in a way that actually clicks for non-technical
       | people. For instance, I was pushing unit tests and integration
       | tests at my company for years but never found the political will
       | to make them a priority. I tried and tried, but my manager just
       | wouldn't see it. Eventually, there was a really bad SEV, and I
       | told her that tests would prevent this sort of thing from
       | happening again. At that point the value became obvious. Now we
       | have tests, and more importantly, everyone understands how
       | valuable they are.
        
         | andrew_lettuce wrote:
         | I think what you're describing is communicating the value in
         | terms that the audience understands and appreciates. This is
         | really a sales skill and most developers have little experience
         | or recognize it as such. A good manager can help here, and I
         | agree that a strongly aligned staff dev and engineering manager
         | can accomplish a lot. That's been my experience and I'm always
         | grateful for devs who work this way too.
        
         | jlund-molfese wrote:
         | I agree! You have to also remember that, if you're the person
         | pushing for something to be priority, it's your job to make it
         | make sense to whoever is responsible for prioritization.
         | 
         | The easiest way to do that is to speak the same language
         | everyone else is. Your product manager probably speaks in
         | dollars (or euros, renminbi, etc). If you provide a good-faith
         | estimate (ballpark ranges are totally fine) that increased test
         | coverage or whatever your technical objective is will cost 200
         | dev hours, and save 400 dev hours on an annual basis, or reduce
         | the rate of support tickets by 15%, or allow for X future
         | business scenario to be supported or whatever, you'll generally
         | have way better luck. My favorite "trick" is taking tech debt
         | work, and framing it in a way so, not only do I not have to
         | push for it as "tech work", but my PM will actually put it on
         | the roadmap proactively because it just makes sense from a
         | business perspective.
         | 
         | It also gets easier over time. You might get some skepticism at
         | first, but if you have a history of delivering accurate
         | estimates and results over months or years, you'll build trust
         | with stakeholders such that what might've taken a round of
         | meetings to convince them before, can now be a 10-minute
         | conversation.
        
           | creer wrote:
           | Sure except that "saving money" is not what makes a company
           | win, and so it's rightly not what makes a career. If you can
           | show that building that new library for $X will streamline
           | engineering by Y% which will allow doubling sales by
           | launching 3 new products - NOW you have a good proposition.
           | (Your "X future business scenario").
           | 
           | Saving money on the current product is only useful if the
           | company has no clue where to go next. Since normally the
           | current product will be gone in 2 years. It can be useful
           | when your company is in long steady production, like a
           | refinery where saving 0.5% would be huge.
           | 
           | This is something people often miss about dodgy code bases.
           | Or about writing a large application in a weird choice for a
           | language. IF you were able to deliver that application AND
           | it's still profitable 5 years later, THEN already it was
           | hugely successful. You can argue that it was not in the
           | correct language and you are wrong because it was ALREADY
           | hugely successful. Same for cleaning up the documentation.
        
             | jlund-molfese wrote:
             | I don't disagree, but I'm not sure if you meant to reply to
             | my comment? I didn't make any references to saving money;
             | the point I'm making is that spending 10 hours this week in
             | order to have 10 additional hours of capacity (ability to
             | build out new features tied to revenue) every month is
             | often a bargain that makes sense.
             | 
             | In the context of full-time engineers, "saving time"
             | actually means that time will be reinvested into product
             | feature development, rather than resulting in less spending
             | on engineering pay. Similarly, engineers spending less time
             | on support, means they can spend more time on feature
             | development.
        
               | creer wrote:
               | Your comment mentioned
               | 
               | > cost 200 dev hours, and save 400 dev hours
               | 
               | And I argue that this is rarely the right perspective.
               | It's 200 hours NOW - and that the company doesn't have
               | budget for. In order to save 400 hours maybe perhaps, if
               | the stars align, two years from now. It's not the same
               | budget. It's not the same time frame. It's not your
               | dept's responsibility. In theory yes maybe but in most
               | businesses, no. These 200 hours now are an investment.
               | This 400 hours maybe perhaps are savings, not profit.
               | They may allow an equivalent 400 hours spent on some
               | profitable new product - but then just ask for budget for
               | the profitable new product, don't worry about where that
               | money comes from. That's sooo far above your pay grade,
               | it's not even funny. If the idea for where to spend the
               | 400 hours is worthwhile, the chairman will raise money to
               | do it. Bring THAT idea to management. THAT would be well
               | received.
               | 
               | In summary: the savings and the new product don't come
               | from the same bits of the balance sheets. They don't
               | affect the future company the same. The wasted 400 hours
               | are already considered in the estimates for the next few
               | years, they are essentially already amortized. They
               | already don't matter. It's not fun for an individual
               | engineer to consider that their work for the next 3 years
               | is financially already long forgotten, lol (?), but
               | basically yes.
               | 
               | It MAY be the right perspective for several levels of
               | management higher up, if people are REALLY working on a
               | 40 year perspective for, I don't know, a mainstream
               | database package, a compiler. But nobody does (in first
               | approximation).
               | 
               | It's also is a good viewpoint where crazy thin
               | differences do make an impact (a refinery).
               | 
               | Still: Most companies that don't plan to be gone in two
               | years do have a methods department or working group.
               | People who do try and make the processes better. They
               | have budget to do that. Bring the idea to them. Hell,
               | even start working part or full time on their budget. But
               | with the understanding that this is yet another group,
               | mission, budget. It's not 200 hours here in exchange for
               | 400 there. And this is a highly technical group - not CXO
               | track except perhaps for a brief stint there.
        
         | awesome_dude wrote:
         | Just for the record, those have intangible results. They
         | improve maintainability, reduce vectors for bugs (which are
         | always based on misunderstandings) and increase velocity.
         | 
         | Absolutely none of those can be measured (hence intangible)
         | which is why they are a hard sell
        
           | creer wrote:
           | > Absolutely none of those can be measured
           | 
           | They can be estimated (with a wild range) and that's still
           | useful: If that impact is clearly in the noise, drop it. If
           | that impact is clearly huuuge then set up some ongoing
           | measurements and get started step-wise and demonstrate
           | results. If you think you need to rebuild the whole thing
           | before seeing any results, you see the world in a way that
           | won't happen (except if your business is not delivering
           | solutions but is selling solutions - in which case carry on).
           | That doesn't mean the ground idea is incorrect.
        
             | awesome_dude wrote:
             | Can you demonstrate, or show how that would work (serious
             | question)
        
               | creer wrote:
               | Sure. Let's take that idea:
               | 
               | > reduce vectors for bugs (which are always based on
               | misunderstandings)
               | 
               | Is that really impossible to measure? (For cheap that is.
               | Cheap measure, cheap estimate, cheap confidence). Is that
               | really impossible to monitor?
               | 
               | Grab a random sample of 100 fixed bugs in the past 2
               | years. Go through them one by one. How many do you really
               | seriously think would have been avoided? If it's not much
               | more work, give it some weighting on confidence and
               | impact or something. For how much addl work? Once you
               | notice what you could count, restart from the top (re-
               | randomize?) - it's only 100 bugs. Is it really 100%, or
               | is it now that are looking at the data more like 10% at
               | best? Was it really impossible to get data?
               | 
               | Now that you have an estimate, write it up and circulate
               | it - It's risky: you could be volunteered to fix the
               | problem and maybe you don't want that.
               | 
               | Would it really be impossible to monitor over the next
               | year? (Still cheap data, cheap results - except if you
               | really estimated 100% because now you were able to get
               | real budget - even if too small - to attack it.)
               | 
               | Estimates, targets, budgets, deadlines are all different
               | concepts. A fraught but carefully worked up estimate is
               | rarely impossible.
               | 
               | Entire businesses get founded and funded on "impossible"
               | estimates.
        
               | awesome_dude wrote:
               | Ah, I think that I get that, thanks.
               | 
               | Although to be clear, the estimates will "this is where
               | we think that we will be saving money"
               | 
               | followed by a review (in 12 months time) that will be
               | "this is what we think is the result, but it will include
               | improvements from other vectors, such as better
               | communication from business"
        
         | kubav027 wrote:
         | Agreed. I have always thought about refactoring as developer
         | responsibility. If it needs to be done do it while working on
         | real feature and update deadlines accordingly. That way it is
         | way easier to justify it because you talk about it only with
         | technical people. In long run it makes code base way better.
         | This results in easier maintenance and faster development of
         | new features.
        
           | creer wrote:
           | > In long run it makes code base way better.
           | 
           | is true but may be irrelevant. Your hierarchy may have the
           | correct understanding: that this better code base will be
           | irrelevant because the company would then be out of business
           | (because you spent your hours on the wrong obsession). Or
           | will be irrelevant because this product line will change to
           | use an entirely different protocol. Or this engineering group
           | will be working on a different product and different code
           | base. Etc.
           | 
           | I feel that it's fine to do small refactors when they help
           | YOU understand the issue you are working on. Anything beyond
           | that does NOT go without saying. Anything beyond that may
           | well be hours you are wasting on a non-existent issue. In
           | theory worthwhile but the company / your engineering group
           | does not live in theory
           | 
           | Now, ideally, when you discuss refactoring with your manager,
           | they have an understanding they can share - so you can
           | understand. And this will make it easier for the individual
           | contributor to work this way and not that way.
        
         | gtowey wrote:
         | Although I agree with this, I can also think of a counter
         | example by analogy.
         | 
         | If you're on a construction project and you, say, spend a bunch
         | of time inspecting and maintaining the safety systems so that
         | you prevent any accidents that seriously injure or kill
         | someone, it's an all-too-common problem that management doesn't
         | think you've done anything and doesn't reward the effort.
         | 
         | It's a huge failure of management that they don't seem to have
         | any concept of benefits unless it can be quantified as ROI. And
         | in the case where it truly is a life or death situation, I
         | consider it a moral failure as well.
         | 
         | In fact, this scenario isn't even a stretch of the imagination.
         | This is Boeing, right now.
        
           | mrbombastic wrote:
           | Yep, maybe i am destined to never make staff but I absolutely
           | loathe that everything must be tied to some company wide
           | target metric that moves in a quarter or it is invisible.
           | Many things that are worthwhile and that companies absolutely
           | should be doing are not easily measured on a quarterly
           | timeline.
        
         | fullstackwife wrote:
         | Think chefs at top restaurants for example: washing hands is
         | something obvious, no need to get any customer infected with
         | fecal bacteria in order to convince the restaurant management
         | for investing into soap (hygiene takes time, you could serve
         | additional customer!)
         | 
         | It is one of career progression milestones for a programmer
         | when they can set a bar for their craftsmanship themselves.
         | Successful SWE is someone who got hired at a team which does
         | not require this kind of education. A team where this type of
         | engineering hygiene is obvious like breathing.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | > But you have to imagine what it must sound like from the
         | perspective of a PM or EM. Itd be like my PM saying "I spent
         | the last month organizing all eng docs to be properly formatted
         | with bullet points."
         | 
         | If your managers think that, and don't understand the value of
         | refactors, you've already lost. You can try explaining it to
         | them, but if this is how they perceive that type of work, it's
         | a sign that you're working at a company that doesn't understand
         | software engineering.
         | 
         | Of course, new features have to be built, and bugs have to be
         | fixed. Those are always priorities. But refactors are just as
         | important for keeping the software in a maintainable state,
         | precisely because they enable new features to be built faster,
         | more efficiently, and in a more robust way.
        
       | apwell23 wrote:
       | > The easiest way is to actively work to make a high-profile
       | project successful. This is more or less what you ought to be
       | doing anyway, just as part of your ordinary job
       | 
       | this involves you getting a chance to work on it in the first
       | place. why would you in particular be getting to work on those
       | projects?
       | 
       | you have to first align yourself with VP and become their bitch.
       | someone who they can trust. you should always follow prison
       | strategy of finding the biggest bully in the yard and becoming
       | their bitch. only then you get to even sniff work thats
       | important. don't even think that you will be given important
       | projects if you show off your technical acumen and skills. that
       | strategy usually backfires and puts a target on your back both
       | from ur peers and superiors who now see you as a threat.
       | 
       | just remember ppl who got into managment positions have no
       | technical skills anymore and are highly insecure of that fact.
       | they will murder you if they even have a little bit of inkling
       | that you are someone who is technically proficient that can drive
       | projects with little help.
        
         | yinser wrote:
         | You should consider finding a career coach, professional
         | therapist. This level of pessimism can't be healthy.
        
           | apwell23 wrote:
           | why? i got director level by following those strategies. nor
           | am i depressed. perhaps you are commenting about language in
           | my post?
        
       | josfredo wrote:
       | It is interesting to notice that when the goal is considered
       | positive by a large enough percentage, the act is named
       | "influence". Whereas when the goal is considered selfish and
       | against the common good, the act is named "manipulation".
        
       | zwaps wrote:
       | There is a career book that makes a lot of good but extreme
       | points.
       | 
       | One of them is: technical ability is actively detrimental to your
       | power and career. You have to spend time and energy on actually
       | doing things, and every competent manager will do their best to
       | keep you right where you are, with as little political influence
       | as possible.
       | 
       | Conversely, as a manager, so the book says, you want to avoid
       | actually doing anything. You should start initiatives -as many as
       | you can- and deftly use your political capital to either own,
       | disown, or weaponize them. Whether they succeed in creating value
       | is irrelevant, certainly not something you should focus on.
       | 
       | People focused on success and value of initiatives are still
       | working hard when you have moved on. These people are hopelessly
       | behind the scheming manager, eating crumbs.
       | 
       | And if necessary, you the manager just claim credit
       | retroactively.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | I slightly disagree. Managers aiming to move up the political
         | chain are very much happy to give political influence to those
         | that will publicly and privately support the manager's own
         | political goals. They want to be pushed up from below and
         | pulled up from above. Managers that are coasting won't because
         | they don't want competition from below.
         | 
         | Engineers often can't tell the two apart, and have too much ego
         | to not publicly and privately make their manager look bad.
        
       | procaryote wrote:
       | I am sure these techniques are effective; but they're
       | disingenious and self serving.
       | 
       | If I see a staff engineer consistently trying to latch onto
       | company initiatives and strategy goals to get funding for their
       | pet project, I would like to fire them
       | 
       | Why not try to actually solve the issues, and spend the politics
       | budget on making sure people noticed? Even if you failed on the
       | politics thing you've at least done something useful
        
         | anon84873628 wrote:
         | You're implying that the pet projects don't align to the goals.
         | If the person is actually technically competent and has good
         | ideas, then it won't be much of a stretch to justify why the
         | project is relevant. Unless the new initiative is really a
         | complete 180.
         | 
         | High level engineers should be looking ahead and predicting
         | what projects will be needed based on technical weak spots or
         | market trends.
        
       | byte_surgeon wrote:
       | Interesting article.
       | 
       | I think ideas also need to mature in people's minds. That can
       | take a long time. And when the right timing comes, people might
       | come back to your idea.
        
       | teiferer wrote:
       | > Scheming takes practice and power
       | 
       | If that's how your workplace works, then find a new one.
       | 
       | Call me naive, but not all companies work like that. (Mine
       | doesn't.)
        
       | byte_surgeon wrote:
       | Interesting articles.
       | 
       | I think ideas also need to mature in peoples minds. That can take
       | a long time. And when the right timing comes, people might come
       | back to your idea. Of course that will not always work.
        
       | fogzen wrote:
       | All great advice. But I wish I had spent more time asking myself
       | whether I should spend my life eating crap and kissing someone's
       | butt in order to further someone else's ambitions.
       | 
       | You can play the game, but ask yourself if that's the game you
       | want to be playing. I'm wary of people who seem happy to make
       | themselves slaves to money no matter the human cost.
        
       | martin-t wrote:
       | People should collectively own the companies they work for.
       | 
       | The people doing actual real work often have a much clearer
       | picture of what's a good or bad idea. Meanwhile management, let
       | alone owners, are looking to either
       | 
       | a) maximize short term profits (because they intend to be
       | somewhere else by the time the bad decisions manifest)
       | 
       | or
       | 
       | b) create infinite growth from finite resources (but they still
       | intend to sell when the peak is reached).
       | 
       | Customers, workers, management and owners have wildly different
       | incentives. And only customers and workers have incentives that
       | lead to long term prosperity - building value (indirectly) from
       | natural resources and human time. Management and owners don't
       | build anything, their incentives are redistributing the created
       | value, ideally so as much as possible goes to them.
        
       | braiamp wrote:
       | > The easiest way is to actively work to make a high-profile
       | project successful
       | 
       | Oh, my sweet summer child. Do you really believe that I would be
       | allowed to be able to make a high profile project successful? I
       | literally have been sidelined of many high-profile projects were
       | they failed in the precise way I said it would fail if continuing
       | the path we were on which is caused by actively working to make
       | it successful. Telling your boss they are wrong and why tend to
       | not work when your boss already have an idea on its head about
       | how it will work.
        
       | oh_fiddlesticks wrote:
       | >The easiest way is to actively work to make a high-profile
       | project successful.
       | 
       | Reminded me of Proverbs 22:29 "Have you seen a man skillful at
       | his work? He will stand before kings; He will not stand before
       | common men."
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | I wish there were more articles on this topic. Politics is always
       | something engineers have to suffer because, not a part of life in
       | a way they could actively utilise, even though they are the core
       | business-forming part of the lower ranking workforce.
        
       | rzz3 wrote:
       | >Powerful stakeholders are typically so stupid and dysfunctional
       | that it's effectively impossible for you to identify their needs
       | and deliver solutions to them
       | 
       | I'm sorry, WHAT? How old is this author? "I fail to communicate
       | effectively with anyone who isn't an engineer because I lack the
       | required empathy and perspective" is very different from "the
       | average stakeholder is stupid and dysfunctional". I stopped
       | reading at this point because author is clearly someone who
       | doesn't take responsibility for their own failures in
       | communication.
        
         | anon84873628 wrote:
         | The preceding paragraph says software engineers *believe* these
         | things and has a footnote referencing HN discussion.
         | 
         | Thus my interpretation is that those points are examples of the
         | extreme, often false stereotypes people believe. They are the
         | mistaken position against which the author is arguing.
        
       | rustystump wrote:
       | I think this article completely misses a critical point at staff
       | level, being a force multiplier cross functionally.
       | 
       | Api is slow, api wasnt being gzipd, good snack, give snack to
       | other eng, find more snack.
       | 
       | Oh look product doesnt have metric, get product the metric, now
       | team look good because boss see what team do.
        
         | bdangubic wrote:
         | I build my _entire_ career doing exactly this and after three
         | decades in the industry, last one as a contractor, this is one
         | of the _very core_ things I do...
        
       | quacked wrote:
       | All good advice; I would also advise doing whatever is possible
       | to be considered personally useful by very important executive
       | staff that you like personally, even if it means doing jobs that
       | are trivial but showy for non-technical users (like dashboards).
       | Once they like and trust you, pitch them an actually good idea
       | that they can take credit for at the right time.
        
       | firesteelrain wrote:
       | My advice is to spend it where it matters. I took over a data
       | center project. It's really a software development environment.
       | They implemented istio when nginx would have worked just fine.
       | Only needed ingress controller and nothing crazy for what this
       | is. There is a VM that runs nginx and it is the reverse proxy for
       | Atlassian tools running in VMs. But we have NSX-T which can
       | handle this so no need for a separate nginx reverse proxy.
       | 
       | Point is my predecessors made things too complicated by chasing
       | shiny things instead of using what is native in our environment
       | to get the job done and simple maintenance
        
       | riazrizvi wrote:
       | > It is simply a fact that software engineers are tools in the
       | political game being played at large companies, not players in
       | their own right.
       | 
       | I like this truth. Talent is mostly a zero-sum game against your
       | time. You can't be great at playing politics unless you have the
       | time in your role to focus on that, and software engineers are
       | paid to be code mules.
        
       | imiric wrote:
       | Politics in the workplace is exhausting. I refuse to play these
       | games, which is probably to my own detriment.
       | 
       | I shouldn't need to promote and sell my ideas to anyone. I'm paid
       | to provide my skills and ideas, and if the people around me don't
       | find them valuable, that's on them. I'd rather move on to places
       | that do value them, than engage in politics.
       | 
       | > Some program of work will be funded whether you do this or not.
       | However, if you don't do this, you have no control over what that
       | program is.
       | 
       | Why would I want control over that?
       | 
       | I share my technical opinion, and it's up to the team or higher-
       | ups to decide which direction to go in. Besides, who says that my
       | opinion is correct, anyway? It should be held to the same level
       | of scrutiny as anyone else's.
       | 
       | This idea that engineers should constantly push for their ideas
       | to be implemented, and to take on projects with the highest
       | visibility, is incredibly toxic. It leads to a culture of
       | obsession over KPIs, OKRs, and other pointless metrics, where
       | people prioritize work that looks good on their record when it's
       | time for a promotion, rather than doing work that has a positive
       | impact on the product, no matter how small. It's all a theater,
       | and I refuse to have any part in it.
        
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