[HN Gopher] Anduril and Palantir battlefield communication syste...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Anduril and Palantir battlefield communication system has flaws,
       Army memo says
        
       Author : gok
       Score  : 191 points
       Date   : 2025-10-03 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnbc.com)
        
       | dmix wrote:
       | > The assessment, seen by Reuters and first reported by Breaking
       | Defense, comes just months after defense drone and software maker
       | Anduril was awarded a $100 million to create a prototype of NGC2
       | with partners including Palantir, Microsoft and several smaller
       | contractors.
       | 
       | > Army chief information officer and Chiulli's supervisor, said
       | in a statement to Reuters that the report was part of a process
       | that helped in "triaging cybersecurity vulnerabilities" and
       | mitigating them.
       | 
       | So it's a brand new prototype and this is a run of the mill
       | cybersecurity review while it undergoes some internal testing?
        
         | rohan_ wrote:
         | yeah i don't understand - they spent a few months building a
         | prototype... do people not understand what a prototype is?
         | 
         | This sounds like a nothingburger.
        
           | DaveZale wrote:
           | Yup, that's the job of the folks at Fort Carson: find the
           | flaws in the prototype. I often hear and feel the booms when
           | they are testing. The percussive shocks travel many miles
           | through the shale to under my house.
        
           | TimorousBestie wrote:
           | Bolting on security after the fact is not exactly the
           | preferred strat.
           | 
           | Especially when the cost of busted security in this context
           | is "exceptionally grave damage."
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | I think btown's sibling comment has it right. It's not even a
           | prototype if it isn't demonstrating some aspect of its core
           | capabilities.
           | 
           | Given this line from the article:                   Despite
           | the early September memo's scathing critique, Leonel Garciga,
           | Army chief information officer and Chiulli's supervisor, said
           | in a statement to Reuters that the report was part of a
           | process that helped in "triaging cybersecurity
           | vulnerabilities" and mitigating them.
           | 
           | and                   Other deficiencies highlighted in the
           | memo include the hosting of third-party applications that
           | have not undergone Army security assessments. One application
           | revealed 25 high-severity code vulnerabilities. Three
           | additional applications under review each contain over 200
           | vulnerabilities requiring assessment, according to the
           | document.
           | 
           | it seems like there was a SIGNIFICANT mismatch in
           | expectations between the team delivering the prototype and
           | the people receiving it. Everyone's time was wasted as a
           | result.
        
         | btown wrote:
         | > The report says the system allows any authorized user to
         | access all applications and data regardless of their clearance
         | level or operational need. As a result, "Any user can
         | potentially access and misuse sensitive" classified
         | information, the memo states, with no logging to track their
         | actions.
         | 
         | Given that segmentation of data access is a core part of the
         | pitch (see e.g. https://www.palantir.com/docs/gotham) - if
         | security controls were intentionally omitted from the prototype
         | scope, that seems like a reckless scoping decision to make. And
         | if security controls were unintentionally bypassed, this speaks
         | to insufficient red-teaming of the prototype before launch.
         | 
         | I couldn't be more pleased that this is coming to light,
         | though. Perhaps it opens decisionmakers' eyes to the dangers of
         | over-centralizing military operations on a system that
         | simultaneously allows operators to diffuse accountability to a
         | semi-autonomous target-calling system, _and_ is foundationally
         | connected to surveillance-state systems tracking U.S. citizens.
         | Entire genres of movies posit the negative outcomes of this
         | kind of system on civilians and military personnel alike; they
         | are cautionary tales to Not Create The Torment Nexus. Sometimes
         | decentralized, human-in-the-loop, need-to-look-the-target-in-
         | the-eyes operational coordination is a feature, not a bug.
        
           | mrtnmrtn wrote:
           | << Enterprise security
           | 
           | We reject the notion of gating, pay-walling, or upselling
           | core security controls like audit logging, single sign-on,
           | and multi-factor authentication. Whether you're a small
           | business or a federal agency, you get access to every core
           | enterprise security feature in our standard offering:
           | 
           | Mandatory encryption of all data, both in transit and at
           | rest, that uses robust, modern cryptography standards. Strong
           | authentication and identity protection controls, including
           | single sign-on and multi-factor authentication. Strong
           | authorization controls, including mandatory and discretionary
           | access controls. Robust security audit logging for detecting
           | and investigating potential abuse. Highly extensible
           | information governance, management, and privacy controls to
           | meet the needs of any use case. >>
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | The real question is: did the product manager shave his
           | beard?
        
           | jandrewrogers wrote:
           | I've worked on similar types of operational systems in the
           | past. The access control is always extremely limited in the
           | prototypes.
           | 
           | It is important to understand that the customers don't have a
           | clear view of the types of access controls they want until
           | they start field exercises. By having relatively limited
           | access controls in the prototype, they discover in real use
           | cases that allowing some data access which never would have
           | occurred to them is highly valuable which can then be refined
           | into specific types of data sharing. In a default locked down
           | environment, these beneficial interactions would never be
           | discovered because they can't occur. All of the ways the
           | users access and use data in the prototypes is logged and
           | studied.
           | 
           | Similarly, other types of data sharing expose real risks that
           | can be reduced to specific scenarios developed during
           | operational exercises. The problem with an exhaustive access
           | control model is that it simply has too many degrees of
           | freedom to be usable for most people.
           | 
           | During development, the universe of all possible uses of
           | access control is reduced to a much simpler and more
           | understandable model of the key data it is important to
           | restrict and the key data it is important to share, grounded
           | in real-world operational learnings. These models are simpler
           | and more precise to implement, and also easier to verify the
           | correctness of, than a default "access control all the
           | things" approach.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > insufficient red-teaming of the prototype before launch
           | 
           | There's been no launch. It's a prototype.
        
           | logsr wrote:
           | developing secure software is very difficult. you have to
           | start from a foundation of immutable data storage. then you
           | need reproducible compilation from source code, to all
           | executables, to bootable images. then you need out-of-band
           | hardware that can verify signatures on the images being
           | booted. all access to the system must take place through
           | accounts with hardware tokens where all data access (r/w) is
           | digitally signed and logged. then you need all developer
           | access to the system to take place through this system. then
           | at the application layer all data must be encrypted with
           | unique keys, and the ownership and assignment of access to
           | these keys must all be logged. this isn't something you can
           | "bolt on later." it has to be a part of the platform
           | architecture before development even begins.
        
         | derektank wrote:
         | I was sort of inclined to agree coming into reading this (my
         | understanding is that this is a prototype round, and other
         | contractors have received awards, prior to a downselect round
         | where one contractor will be selected for full production) but
         | if it's true that, "We cannot control who sees what, we cannot
         | see what users are doing," that seems like a bearish signal.
         | 
         | Access control and user level logging seem like kind of basic
         | feature requirements for a military C2 system? And Lattice
         | isn't a completely immature product either IIRC.
        
       | Seattle3503 wrote:
       | Does anyone have a link to the memo?
        
         | jpace121 wrote:
         | I would be very surprised if it was publicly available.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Yeah, there's no way anyone would ask or it'd get approved
           | for public release. Not because it's necessarily controlled
           | information (though suspect it probably is), but what would
           | be the point? Things get released to the public only when
           | there is a particular need to tell the public something and
           | everything else defaults to sitting on some janky ass
           | SharePoint site until everyone forgets about it.
        
             | wbl wrote:
             | FOIA is a law for a reason
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Given these blustering charlatans' track record with
           | security, I would be very surprised if it was NOT publicly
           | leaked, sitting somewhere on an open cloud server, put there
           | by some petulant incel child who calls himself Big Balls.
        
       | kspacewalk2 wrote:
       | A prototype doesn't have fine-grained access control. Is that
       | pretty much the story here?
        
         | asadotzler wrote:
         | Security as a later add-on is failure.
        
           | lysace wrote:
           | Build one to throw away.
        
             | Quarrelsome wrote:
             | that would be best practice but that wouldn't be what I
             | often see happen.
        
               | relaxing wrote:
               | In fact, build one to throw away is the default in the
               | defense space.
               | 
               | Odds are this one will join the scrap heap of projects
               | that never make it to operation, like thousands of
               | systems before it.
        
           | kspacewalk2 wrote:
           | Like all excessively categorical one liners, yours is of
           | little use in practice.
        
       | jandrewrogers wrote:
       | What's the issue? Everything about this is normal and expected
       | when prototyping new capabilities for DoD.
       | 
       | DoD intentionally pushes hard to get testable capabilities as
       | early as possible to shorten feedback loops, understanding that
       | features ancillary to the capability will be limited, stubbed
       | out, or implemented using a stopgap that you would never use in
       | production. This will all be cleaned up in the production
       | implementation once everyone is happy with how the capability
       | works. Basically an agile customer development approach, similar
       | to what is used in startups.
       | 
       | In my experience, the fine-grained control and security features
       | are _never_ implemented in the prototypes. This can be extremely
       | fussy and slow development that isn 't needed to evaluate
       | capability. It also requires a lot of customer involvement, so
       | they usually aren't willing to invest the time until they are
       | satisfied that they want to move forward with the capability. The
       | security architecture is demonstrably the kind of thing that can
       | be mechanically added later so DoD takes the view that there is
       | no development risk by not implementing it in the prototype.
       | 
       | There may be fair criticisms of the system but it looks like the
       | article is going out of its way to mislead and misrepresent.
        
         | ranadomo wrote:
         | This is an absurd statement to make about a DOD program.
         | Securing communication is communication in the most adversarial
         | environment imaginable. There are thousands of problems that
         | only emerge once cryptographic authentication and authorization
         | are enabled. This isn't a b2b sass app where you can just add
         | an "auth layer" once the api is built out. It's passing
         | mission-critical messages through signal-jamming and
         | unimaginably hostile imitation scenarios. Many DOD programs are
         | built as prototypes that don't ever factor security in the
         | architecture, and then have massive problems and delays trying
         | to implement it later. DOD cyber acquisition is run by the most
         | incompetent clowns on earth. The only reason they don't know
         | how terrible their software is, is because they're not capable
         | of detecting how fundamentally compromised their systems are,
         | and China and Russia are not exactly white-hats looking for a
         | bounty.
        
           | wyldberry wrote:
           | It is not absurd, this is the standard for rapid prototyping
           | in the DoD. Given that Palantir already has a strong track
           | record for authn/z inside their systems used across the DoD,
           | LEO, and Intelligence Agencies. It's not an untread,
           | uncharted path for these organizations.
        
           | jandrewrogers wrote:
           | I have first-hand experience with the problems of designing
           | systems for adversarial denied environments. These are
           | largely orthogonal to the problem of access controls. The
           | low-level communication security and channel capacity is
           | handled almost exclusively by external trusted modules,
           | systems built on top of them only have to concern themselves
           | with the behavior of these modules.
           | 
           | There is a separate concern around denied data environments
           | in the software realm but that is not on many people's radar.
           | Most software devs would not know where to even start to
           | protect systems from this.
           | 
           | A tension with access controls is that if you implement it to
           | the level of granularity the most demanding parts of DoD say
           | they want, it never actually gets used because it is too
           | complicated for users to reason about and manage. Or worse,
           | they make mistakes and leak data _because_ it is complicated.
           | A simpler model is always implemented on top of it. At the
           | same time, fine-grained and scalable access controls impose a
           | high operational cost in the software even if they are not
           | being used and some parts of DoD care a lot about software
           | performance. Many parts of DoD are realistic enough to not
           | want to pay for access controls they 'll never actually use.
           | 
           | On top of this, security architecture is designed to be
           | somewhat pluggable because different users will have mutually
           | exclusive design requirements for the security architecture.
           | It would be nice if this wasn't the case but it is what it
           | is.
        
             | bitwalker wrote:
             | > There is a separate concern around denied data
             | environments in the software realm but that is not on many
             | people's radar. Most software devs would not know where to
             | even start to protect systems from this.
             | 
             | The concept of a denied environment is pretty clear to me
             | when it comes to physical space, or radio communications -
             | but could you clarify what you mean by a "denied data
             | environment"? I have some notion of what you _might_ mean,
             | but I can't find a clear definition of the idea anywhere.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | >>The Army should treat the NGC2 prototype version as "very
         | high risk" because of the "likelihood of an adversary gaining
         | persistent undetectable access," wrote Gabrielle Chiulli, the
         | Army chief technology officer authorizing official.
         | 
         | >>One application revealed 25 high-severity code
         | vulnerabilities
         | 
         | What part of the above two quotes are hard to understand?
         | 
         | >>"The security architecture is demonstrably the kind of thing
         | that can be mechanically added later so DoD takes the view that
         | there is no development risk by not implementing it in the
         | prototype."
         | 
         | Are you actually serious about this? Because to me, that is the
         | most nonsensical thing said in a post of nonsensical things.
         | 
         | ARCHITECTURE is the FIRST thing that needs to be determined --
         | what is the structure of the modules, how they communicate, and
         | what underlying tech will be used? Sure, if you are making a
         | true proof-of-concept prototype you can skip it but no one
         | would be discussing the above kinds of issues evaluating a POC.
         | Tacking on some afterthought of a 'security architecture' at
         | the end of a development project is a recipe for disaster in
         | countless ways.
         | 
         | And yes, you said "fine details" added later; agree. But even a
         | prototype of a secure communications system the thing must AT
         | LEAST show some security architecture; I mean at least show you
         | can keep Joe-user from accessing Root privs... here, they said
         | anyone can access anything. That is not fine details, that is
         | simply not even close to meeting the spec.
         | 
         | (and yes, I do DOD work, and your account is not even close to
         | how I've seen it work)
        
           | dkarl wrote:
           | > no one would be discussing the above kinds of issues
           | evaluating a POC
           | 
           | Um, yeah, they would be communicating that it's a bad idea to
           | put sensitive data into it. You have to make that stuff
           | explicit, or somebody will misuse it.
           | 
           | I'm looking for the scandal here. Did the contractors
           | misrepresent the prototype systems as being secure in ways
           | they're not? Is the project behind schedule, and proper
           | authorization controls were supposed to be implemented by
           | now? Is the prototype system being improperly used to share
           | sensitive data? Any of those would be concerning, but the
           | article doesn't make any of those claims.
           | 
           | All I see is, a prototype version of software doesn't have
           | all the capability that it will need when it's finished.
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | The scandal here is that multilevel security MUST be a core
             | of the product from the outset
             | 
             | The evaluations quoted in my previous comment shows it is
             | VERY obvious the Army _expected_ to see at least the
             | capabilities to prevent  "an adversary gaining persistent
             | undetectable access", _expected_ to see capabilities
             | preventing low-level users from accessing higher-clearance-
             | level materials, and did _not expect_ 25+ high-severity
             | code vulnerabilities, and all of those expectations were
             | failed by the suppliers.
             | 
             | True, the article did not cite info about the exact
             | specifications and expected operational readiness level at
             | this date detailed in the contracts.
             | 
             | However, we _can_ safely assume the Army officers who wrote
             | the scathing memo _do_ have access to and understand the
             | contractual expectations, and wrote the report in the
             | proper context of the contractual expectations.
             | 
             | Instead, you want to do a rhetorical sleight-of-hand to
             | claim since the article necessarily is not a complete
             | report (it's a short news article), the missing bits mean
             | the Army officers are just speaking out of context and
             | there is no scandal. That is wrong
        
               | dkarl wrote:
               | Can we even safely assume that the memo was scathing?
               | That's an interpretation by the reporter. You would think
               | that they would be able to quote some damning fact or
               | accusation from it, or at least some harsh language, if
               | it really was "scathing."
        
               | toss1 wrote:
               | Yes, we can safely assume that, since I was largely
               | ignoring the press piece and directly using only the
               | quotes from the Army Report.
               | 
               | Below are some of the direct quotes from the Army Report
               | quoted in the article.
               | 
               | >> "fundamental security" problems and vulnerabilities,
               | 
               | >> should be treated as a "very high risk
               | 
               | >> "We cannot control who sees what, we cannot see what
               | users are doing, and we cannot verify that the software
               | itself is secure,"
               | 
               | >> "very high risk" because of the "likelihood of an
               | adversary gaining persistent undetectable access," wrote
               | Gabrielle Chiulli, the Army chief technology officer
               | authorizing official.
               | 
               | >> Any user can potentially access and misuse sensitive"
               | 
               | >> One application revealed 25 high-severity code
               | vulnerabilities. Three additional applications under
               | review each contain over 200 vulnerabilities requiring
               | assessment, according to the document.
               | 
               | >> "Any user can potentially access and misuse sensitive"
               | classified information, the memo states, with no logging
               | to track their actions.
               | 
               | The report on a supposedly secure communications system
               | prototype contains these exact criticisms about 1)
               | fundamental lack of access control for users of
               | classified info at multiple levels, 2) complete lack of
               | logging for any access authorized or unauthorized, and 3)
               | likelihood of an adversary gaining persistent
               | _undetectable_ access.
               | 
               | To anyone with a clue, this is exactly the opposite of
               | what a secure military communications system needs.
               | 
               | For people on a site who supposedly care about software
               | quality to defend such obvious slop is ... surprising. It
               | looks from this collection of quotes that Palantir and
               | Anduril just tossed over some Slack/Discord clone and
               | thought they'd "wow" the Army with the new (presumably to
               | those backwards customers) tech and slap on some security
               | later, and are now finding out their customer is a bit
               | more sophisticated than they expected.
               | 
               | There are very good reasons consumer tech is often
               | unsuited for military use.
               | 
               | (OFC, if the press piece is lying about the direct quotes
               | and numbers from the document, we have an entirely
               | different discussion, but no one here has argued that is
               | the case)
        
           | Grimblewald wrote:
           | You're fighting the good fight, palantir bots out in force in
           | this one.
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | Yes, thanks, I noticed
             | 
             | Especially surprising that on a site unmatched by any other
             | in the near-reflexive liberty and anti-surveillance
             | attitudes, one of the most aggressive and far-reaching
             | surveillance corporation finds such support...
        
         | reissbaker wrote:
         | I think what's happening here is:
         | 
         | 1. The Army gave a reasonable analysis of the security issues
         | with the prototype.
         | 
         | 2. This is normal.
         | 
         | 3. But most people don't have experience in this field.
         | 
         | 4. A reporter got access to the report, and published the most
         | salacious-sounding parts -- and if you don't know that this is
         | normal, it sounds really bad.
         | 
         | 5. Oh no, the sky is falling. Click here to watch our ads, oops
         | I mean, to read all about it.
         | 
         | Generally my read on tech-adjacent reporters is they have very
         | little understanding of what they're reporting on, and mostly
         | try to manufacture outrage to get clicks.
        
           | appreciatorBus wrote:
           | Also true of non-tech-adjacent reporters!
           | 
           | The impulse may be stronger in some and weaker in others, and
           | the incentive structure at their outlet may be stronger or
           | weaker, but all of them know, even subconsciously, what type
           | of stories are likelier to capture attention, make $ for the
           | outlet and hopefully return a portion of that to them.
           | Outrage is high the list of qualities that guarantee
           | attention.
           | 
           | Since learning about social media algorithms, I've come to
           | think of all news media, even old timey newspapers, in the
           | same light. IMO The only difference between TikTok's For You
           | page and newspaper headlines from 200 years ago was the
           | precision of the engagement feedback and the latency.
        
             | MountDoom wrote:
             | > Also true of non-tech-adjacent reporters!
             | 
             | It's true for _everyone_. Over the years, I 've been on the
             | business end of several "tech outrage" stories that made
             | the headlines on HN, and over time, became a sort of IT
             | canon: "company X did something really bad".
             | 
             | And they all had the same origin: a party with an ax to
             | grind latched onto a fairly boring story, distorted the
             | facts to tell a narrative, and that narrative "clicked"
             | with everyone else because it confirmed their preexisting
             | biases.
             | 
             | It doesn't mean that there are no companies that are truly
             | evil or incompetent, but I'd wager is <50% of the ones that
             | get raked over the coals here and elsewhere.
        
               | reissbaker wrote:
               | Yep -- sadly the most effective cure is being on the
               | receiving end of one of the stories, and realizing how
               | bad faith they are.
               | 
               | I think the U.S. slander laws are probably too light. I'm
               | generally supportive of the idea that "democracy dies in
               | darkness," but I think we've gone further than that in
               | allowing people to lie in public for money. I don't think
               | _that_ helps democracy, and in fact probably hurts it. I
               | think anyone, anywhere on the political spectrum, can
               | point to damning examples of the other side lying for
               | their cause, and I think we 'd all be better off if that
               | stopped.
        
             | kingforaday wrote:
             | Re: Benjamin Franklin and the Pamphlet Wars
        
               | snerbles wrote:
               | Also the Yellow Press drumming up support for the
               | Spanish-American War.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
        
         | Grimblewald wrote:
         | I dunno, the process is normal but the issues raised are
         | extreme. Too extreme. I'd expect things like "in edge cases X
         | vulnerabilities start being an issue" rather than "at any
         | point, anyone, can gain undtected full access to all our live
         | infrastructure, equipment, and troop poaitions"
         | 
         | it feels like the bar for what are acceptable toothing issues
         | is set unrealistically low here.
        
       | 1-more wrote:
       | Is NGC2 meant to replace JTRS? Did JTRS ever actually ship
       | broadly and replace SINCGARS?
       | 
       | Wow holy calamity lol JTRS never shipped. Paid a lot of mortgages
       | though.
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | JTRS had so many problems. It was spectacularly badly managed
         | by its program office. I'll repeat what I've written perhaps
         | too many times here on HN: DOD program offices are not capable
         | of handling IT (software-centric) acquisitions efforts. They
         | reliably fail.
        
         | mandevil wrote:
         | The reason that Rumsfeld's second term as SecDef marks him as
         | the worst to ever hold the position (1) is that at least the
         | other guy who oversaw the US getting into a decades long morass
         | (McNamara) delivered some effective weapons. Forcing the USAF
         | to buy the F4H, the USAF half of the 'vark, Nimitz class
         | carrier, Spruance class destroyer, etc. were all reasonably
         | successful weapons systems that McNamara was largely
         | responsible for, in bureaucratic terms.
         | 
         | Donald Rumsfeld's term managed to get the US into a decades
         | long morass _and_ basically all of his procurement plans failed
         | (FCS, JTRS, EMALS, LCS, EFV, DDG-1000). Rumsfeld 's best
         | program outcome (LCS) was still worse than McNamara's worst
         | (F-111).
         | 
         | 1: Not counting the current occupant where we can't fully judge
         | him yet, but he's not doing well.
        
           | SJC_Hacker wrote:
           | Were those programs really on Rumsfeld, or was it the
           | Congress/Senate ?
        
             | mandevil wrote:
             | The consistent emphasis on the value of speed and mobility
             | over the other parts of the combat triangle (mobility-
             | firepower-survivability)- to the detriment of them as
             | weapons systems- is a sign that there was a coherent
             | influence and direction being put on those programs, to
             | their detriment, by the SecDef's office.
             | 
             | Basically, Rummie's approach was to emphasize speed and
             | mobility over all other aspects of fighting, and it created
             | ships with high speed and little sustainability or
             | effective mission packages (LCS) and ground vehicles which
             | were hideously expensive and way too vulnerable (EFV, FCS).
             | Some things that happened under him (like the F-22 line
             | being closed permanently) were more due to Congress' than
             | him, but those programs were closely associated with him
             | and his office at the time, and were gigantic CF's that, in
             | the best case, ended without a single production unit ever
             | reaching service.
             | 
             | I say this as someone who worked in Army procurement doing
             | FCS things. In my opinion as someone who was there, it was
             | Rumsfeld's baby, and it was such a disaster _both_
             | Presidential candidates in 2008 promised to kill it. And it
             | deserved that killing.
        
       | mmaunder wrote:
       | If mandatory access control (MAC)is the expectation and these
       | guys haven't built that in from the ground up, they're going to
       | find it very hard to bolt on later.
        
         | terminalshort wrote:
         | Every prototype I've ever built has been a throwaway POC. So
         | nothing to bolt on later because the production version is
         | built from scratch. I write a very different type of software,
         | though, so not 100% sure if applicable here.
        
       | microdrum wrote:
       | These are forcememed companies, unfortunately. Neither Palantir
       | nor Anduril make a single thing that China doesn't, and neither
       | one makes a single thing at attractive cost that would intimidate
       | China in a conflict. They could disappear tomorrow with no impact
       | to US military lethality.
        
         | terminalshort wrote:
         | Source?
        
         | aerostable_slug wrote:
         | Based on my direct personal experience, this is a
         | counterfactual statement.
         | 
         | It's sad when partisan politics so overwhelms discourse that
         | people just make up nonsense because they don't like the CEO of
         | a company.
        
           | aegypti wrote:
           | "I personally don't think that's true, and it upsets me you
           | believe it's true" isn't really an argument though.
           | 
           | What are they making that would intimidate China, that China
           | doesn't already?
        
             | aerostable_slug wrote:
             | Combat-proven software that helps put warheads on foreheads
             | in compressed timescales. I'm not talking about development
             | projects or what could happen, I'm referring to
             | applications that are being used right now.
             | 
             | There's a massive difference between something in a lab or
             | in a paper presentation and code that is running in
             | production and provably works. There are lots of
             | individuals pushing up daisies that would attest to the
             | effectiveness of Palantir's applications if they could
             | still speak.
        
               | relaxing wrote:
               | Dude, gross. You don't have to talk like that.
        
         | chermi wrote:
         | 1) lol 2) source for such confident claims 3) even if true, can
         | they potentially make existing tech cheaper than competitors?
         | Competition is good for price. If so, still an "impact on US
         | military" 4) see 1.
        
       | mhb_eng wrote:
       | Somewhat old news, as a more recent article highlights that those
       | issues have since been resolved.
       | 
       | https://breakingdefense.com/2025/10/army-says-its-mitigated-...
        
       | aelaguiz wrote:
       | Whoever didn't get those contracts must be unhappy. That's how I
       | read this type of story.
        
       | stephc_int13 wrote:
       | I don't think that anyone with first hand intel would be in the
       | position to safely leak what is happening at those companies or
       | their contractors, but I have the intuition that their founders
       | are larping more than anything else.
       | 
       | Nice toys. Not sure the tech has anything substantial or
       | innovative under the hood.
        
         | anondawg67 wrote:
         | "larping" when there are jobs at both contractors that require
         | top secret / sci... sure...
        
       | _whiteCaps_ wrote:
       | Naming military technology after things in LOTR completely misses
       | the point of the stories. Tolkien is spinning in his grave.
        
         | dlivingston wrote:
         | Can you expand on this?
        
           | _whiteCaps_ wrote:
           | Anduril is Aragorn's sword.
           | 
           | Palantiri are the seeing stones.
           | 
           | I think this article has a good summary of Tolkien's
           | experiences in the war:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_and_Middle-earth
        
           | rout39574 wrote:
           | One of the important roles of the Palantir was that they were
           | scrying devices. Sauron gained some influence over them
           | warped the impressions of those who used them, by affecting
           | what they could and couldn't see. It was part of the subtle
           | misinformation he used to twist people into alliance with
           | him.
        
             | roywiggins wrote:
             | it's at least a little funny to name your company in the
             | business of secure communication products after a fictional
             | communication device with a famous security flaw
        
           | SJC_Hacker wrote:
           | The novels, and movies to some extent hint heavily that
           | industry/technology was used for evil far more than good, and
           | in general the "forces of good" were more "attune with
           | nature" than their opponents
           | 
           | Example - Saruman clear cutting a good portion of Fangorn
           | forest in order to strip mine it and produce weapons.
           | 
           | Paywalled article in the Atlantic on this subject
           | 
           | https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/07/fall-.
           | ..
           | 
           | Brief exerpt:
           | 
           | 'So it makes sense, then, that the chief exponents of
           | technology in The Lord of the Rings are a demonic figure bent
           | on world domination (Sauron) and a wizard (Saruman).
           | Treebeard, the Ent or tree-shepherd, says of Saruman, "He is
           | plotting to become a Power. He has a mind of metal and
           | wheels; and he does not care for growing things, except as
           | far as they serve him for the moment." '
        
       | bpodgursky wrote:
       | Raising a PR disaster for problems with iterative prototypes is
       | how you end up with traditional defense contractors with decade-
       | long waterfall development cycles designed for neurotic ass-
       | covering rather than effective feature delivery.
       | 
       | Please don't sabotage national defense just for cheap shots at
       | Palantir. This is the right way to develop defense tech. Make a
       | prototype, see what works, iterate. Come on.
        
         | sauercrowd wrote:
         | This.
         | 
         | Criticising a prototype that it doesn't do all the things of a
         | finished product is... interesting
        
         | indemnity wrote:
         | Tactics straight out of the Simple Sabotage field manual. You'd
         | think the audience of this website understood modern fast
         | feedback loop iterative development to explore the problem
         | space.
        
       | jakedata wrote:
       | I thought the Department of WAR was switching over to a hacked
       | version of Telegram Messenger for all its secure communications.
       | If you see someone you don't know in the chat, don't worry it's
       | probably just a journalist. Probably... (edited to add that this
       | is based on actual events, not snark)
        
       | mway wrote:
       | This is admittedly petty, but I'm getting tired of bad actors
       | reappropriating nerd lore (LotR) for nefarious products.
        
         | snickerbockers wrote:
         | But thats the palantir.
        
       | RatchetWerks wrote:
       | I've directly worked in this space. This article is pure tabloid-
       | style reporting.
       | 
       | It sounds like they are testing prototypes, and it's not ready
       | for mass fielding. Nothing new here.
       | 
       | Access/permissions control in military applications is VERY
       | different when compared to the consumer or B2B space.
       | 
       | It takes real field testing to figure what is best for the
       | customer needs.
        
       | bluelightning2k wrote:
       | Admittedly my experience of what a battlefield comms system would
       | look like comes only from games, but I think it needs emotes,
       | flashy red low health indicator, and microtransactions.
        
       | fishmicrowaver wrote:
       | Doesn't matter. Go to DC and get a tour of the Pentagon. You have
       | a 50/50 chance of seeing Palantir/DOD counterparts physically
       | hugging and talking about eachothers personal lives.
       | Congratulations to them, they've won the game. And congrats SV,
       | the rest of you hang up your phones when you might be the only
       | plausible competitor for the next bid, because you think staying
       | away from gov protects your values. All you're doing is letting
       | the absolute worst of companies win.
        
         | snickerbockers wrote:
         | Are you under the impression that silicon valley is some
         | bastion of ethics and protector of liberty?
        
           | fishmicrowaver wrote:
           | No and I'm being unfair in my super hot take. However, many
           | companies turn down opportunities, and were left with
           | ...Palantir.
        
       | newfriend wrote:
       | Everything has flaws. This smells like a hit piece.
        
       | avazhi wrote:
       | 'May have flaws' would be the accurate title but that wouldn't
       | get CNBC the clicks.
       | 
       | Crying about being unable to audit a propriety system isn't the
       | same thing as demonstrating that the system itself is flawed.
        
       | AfterHIA wrote:
       | Lord Of The Rings obsessed computer dorks shouldn't be designing
       | equipment as civilians that is life-and-death critical for
       | Marines and soldiers. Prove me wrong.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_in_the_Game_(book)
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | I'm eager to see how Barracuda fails to make any difference in
       | attacking Russia directly! Luckey needs to be grounded, literally
       | - just like all arrogant assholes!
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | Oh this is just the Israeli back door. What did you expect
       | really?
       | 
       | > "The Army should treat the NGC2 prototype version as "very high
       | risk" because of the "likelihood of an adversary gaining
       | persistent undetectable access," wrote Gabrielle Chiulli, the
       | Army chief technology officer authorizing official."
        
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