[HN Gopher] Gmail will no longer support checking emails from th...
___________________________________________________________________
Gmail will no longer support checking emails from third-party
accounts via POP
Author : sumanep
Score : 601 points
Date : 2025-10-01 16:25 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (support.google.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (support.google.com)
| satisfice wrote:
| goddamn it
| Animats wrote:
| The linked page says that Gmail is discontinuing support for the
| old Post Office Protocol in favor of IMAP. Nobody has used POP
| much in years. Decades, maybe.
|
| IMAP can check for mail without downloading. But apparently Gmail
| doesn't support that.
|
| You can do this the other way round. Use a local email client
| such as Thunderbird on desktop or FastMail on Android to check
| Gmail and any other email accounts you have.
| belst wrote:
| only the phone app supports imap. the web app does not, it used
| to support pop
| 12435454344345 wrote:
| Gdiehdis29739237
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| I don't think that is a good way to express it. The gmail
| service supported POP and any gmail client (e.g. my iOS Mail
| app) could then get that email. It isn't about only the web
| client.
| OJFord wrote:
| No, they're discontinuing POP 'import' (so mail ends up stored
| in Gmail) configured in the web app and available everywhere,
| in favour of IMAP client access from the mobile clients only.
|
| Fine for some people, not at all equivalent for others. (I'm
| disinterested, fwiw, haven't used Gmail other than an alumni
| forwarding address for years.) It's not just a protocol change.
| sumanep wrote:
| You can use pop still, just not to see external emails in
| gmail web (and you cant use imap either to do that)
| lhamil64 wrote:
| Huh, apparently I still have a POP3 email setup in Gmail, my
| old ISP provided email. Mildly annoying that it's going away,
| but I never use that email anyway so I guess it's not a big
| deal for me.
| gausswho wrote:
| TIL what POP meant after three decades. Thanks!
| cosinetau wrote:
| > Nobody has used POP much in years
|
| Writing in as a current POP user. I use it to import email
| every day.
| cosmotic wrote:
| I use POP to maintain control over my data.
| mrbluecoat wrote:
| This.
|
| I use POP and Thunderbird to download all my email and erase
| it from their servers so they can't later use it for AI
| training, ad personalization, persona tracking, etc.
| jasonfarnon wrote:
| Unfortunately deleting your email probably doesn't "erase
| it from their servers". This was the substance of one of
| the old google location history lawsuits, where "erase my
| history" only erased your device's access to it. They
| retain a possibly transformed copy for training etc.
| cortesoft wrote:
| You don't have an ability to "erase it from their servers".
| There is no way to be sure they actually delete anything
| when you erase it, they could just be hiding the access.
| userbinator wrote:
| Speaking as someone who worked in a large company before
| (although perhaps not Google-sized), and several smaller
| ones, they are very motivated to reduce storage costs
| whenever possible. Sure they could be "just hiding the
| access" immediately after you request them to delete, but
| that storage will likely be overwritten soon by something
| else.
| teo_zero wrote:
| > they are very motivated to reduce storage costs
| whenever possible
|
| On the other hand, they are also very motivated to have a
| large mass of data to train their AI.
|
| Which of the two motivations wins, is debatable. Today
| I'd bet on AI.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Training off data you _published_ for public consumption,
| e.g. pretty much user-generated content on social media,
| or anything publicly accessible on the web, is one thing.
| Training off private conversations is a whole different
| thing. I doubt any major company is doing the latter.
| Would be a PR and legal firestorm. Which doesn 't serve
| the interests of companies training AI models either.
| dwayne_dibley wrote:
| Would you really put it past them? Gmail is after all a
| free service.
| cortesoft wrote:
| The deprecation is about the webmail version of Gmail. You
| can't check other accounts while using the web version of
| Gmail.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| It's a little unclear whether you will still be able to use
| pop3 on the mobile app or not.
| cortesoft wrote:
| I think you can, but those emails are only going to exist
| on your phone, though. They aren't imported into your Gmail
| account itself.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| Yeah, that's fine for my needs. Just hoping it will
| continue to work that way.
| casenmgreen wrote:
| > Nobody has used POP much in years. Decades, maybe.
|
| I use it in preference to IMAP, to reduce attack surface; to
| get my emails off the server and down onto my laptop as quickly
| as possible.
|
| I don't like the idea of leaving all my email on a server.
| sumanep wrote:
| The linked page don't say that. Pop will still be supportedand
| imap was never an option for adding external accounts in gmail
| webmail
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| I thought they would _want_ us sucking down our external mail
| into their system to keep us inside the wall with scannable data.
| What the heck.
| righthand wrote:
| There's probably a security issue and the product owner can't
| figure out how to vibe code their way out.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I guess they couldn't find anyone qualified to maintain the
| mailfetcher.
| mxuribe wrote:
| I wonder if this is a little about storage costs? I mean, at
| their scale, i imagine the core cost of the actual storage by
| itself is pretty negligible...but maybe combined with other
| infra. (beyond storage) that needs to be considered in the
| total costs related to storing and managing POP pulls...maybe
| their data shows that it simply wasn't worth it to them to keep
| said functionality around? But, your comment did make me
| chuckle a little! :-)
| jjcob wrote:
| Maybe it causes too many issues? POP is pretty unpredictable
| when multiple clients access the same server.
| mxuribe wrote:
| Yeah, that would be a good point...like, maybe its not just
| about cost, but more trouble than its worth. On another
| comment i made here, i wondered if its not just storage
| costs, but costs or *annoyance* of running infra. that
| oversees the fetching, the storage, yada, yada...al for
| POP, whose users leveraging said functionality are crazy
| low.
| jimrandomh wrote:
| They already have a quota and billing framework in place for
| email storage. If it was about storage costs, I'd expect them
| to address it through that.
| mxuribe wrote:
| Makes sense.
| jeffbee wrote:
| The number of people who actually use this feature to fetch
| mail into their Gmail account in the year 2025 has got to be
| pretty damn near zero.
| mxuribe wrote:
| Yeah, i agree...which adds to my guess that its not *just*
| about storage...but something else above/beyond storage. In
| other words, maybe whatever infra is in place to do the
| fetching, storing, etc...is way more costly than the
| storage and way too costly to justify for the crazy low
| numbers that i would agree would still be using POP in this
| day and age and via gmail.
| xp84 wrote:
| You might be onto something here. Perhaps other mail
| services have a habit of banning the Google mailfetcher
| and it takes effort to get it unbanned.
| mxuribe wrote:
| > Perhaps other mail services have a habit of banning the
| Google mailfetcher and it takes effort to get it
| unbanned.
|
| Yeah, that's a perfectly reasonable theory right there!
| dotwaffle wrote:
| I know a lot of people who use it, in fact I'm one of them.
|
| I have an @gmail.com account with about 20 years of stuff
| associated with it, from purchases to YouTube
| subscriptions, from calendars to GCP accounts.
|
| However, I use a vanity email (me@somedomain.example) that
| everyone I know uses to get hold of me. Until about 10
| years ago I could just forward emails but that slowly
| became unworkable as more and more stuff just broke due to
| SPF etc. So, I've been using POP pickup (and accepting the
| 5-30 minute delay) ever since.
|
| As I understand it, I can't move all my gmail.com data into
| a GWork profile easily, and POP has worked for years. This
| is very frustrating.
| jeffbee wrote:
| "A number" much closer to zero than the the number of
| Gmail DAUs.
| 2000UltraDeluxe wrote:
| Working with a client that has thousands of customers using
| this setup. Common? Perhaps not, but definitely not near
| zero.
|
| Many people are fiercly attached to the Gmail interface,
| but refuse to pay for Google Workspace, or even manage
| multiple email accounts in a desktop client.
| commandersaki wrote:
| Yeah it is either that or the bean counters realised this is an
| expense with very little upshot.
| mustaphah wrote:
| A quick hack: forward @yourdomain.com emails to your Gmail (e.g,
| Cloudflare Email Routing).
|
| Outbound emails sent via "Send mail as:" using SMTP remain
| unaffected.
| flakeoil wrote:
| Or forward your gmail to another proper email domain.
| mustaphah wrote:
| I just can't live without the Gmail spamfilter. It's just the
| best. Industry-leading; no question.
| nulbyte wrote:
| Gmail regularly lets through spam, including backscatter
| spam from mail sent to the google.com domain spoofing Gmail
| users. Industry-leading is not the term I would use to
| describe their spam heuristics.
|
| Grey listing has been far more effective at stopping spam
| than some half-baked AI garbage from Google.
| mustaphah wrote:
| Not ideal - can't disagree. Still, it's the industry
| leader. I'm not aware of a better spamfilter.
|
| Grey listing doesn't scale; not for me.
| akkartik wrote:
| I forward everything including spam to Fastmail. Their
| spam filter is absolutely fine. This way I don't need to
| check for false positives in 2 places. You're probably
| losing one genuine message a year if you don't check your
| Gmail spam folder.
| nottorp wrote:
| Hmm. Not really. I run greylisting on my personal domain
| which is extremely low traffic and lately I'm getting
| like 4-5 spams per day that obey it correctly.
|
| Which is more than the non spam emails that come on it :)
| xandrius wrote:
| Have you tried other things? And not saying just Microsoft.
| mustaphah wrote:
| Proton Mail is good (just not as good), but you can't
| integrate external SMTP for outbound emails; you have to
| pay to send from @yourdomain.com.
|
| With Gmail, you can configure an external SMTP server
| using "Send mail as" setting. Super convenient. Tons of
| mail services offer a generous free tier for personal use
| (e.g., Mailgun 100 emails/day).
|
| It's not really worth paying just to send a few personal
| emails from @yourdomain.com each month.
| jp191919 wrote:
| I control spam by using email aliases. And it makes it easy
| to track exactly who leaked/sold my email address. But I
| don't use gmail, as I value my privacy.
| mustaphah wrote:
| I do aliases as well. Never enough. A battle-tested
| spammer would run s/+[^@]*// on the address before
| sending.
| lentil_soup wrote:
| I have my own domain and just do <website-
| name>@mydomain.com and redirect everything to the same
| inbox sorted in folders.
|
| Works pretty well, if any of those addresses gets into
| some spam list I just block it (hasn't happened yet,
| though)
| mustaphah wrote:
| Catch-all (*) setup is the best, until a spammer hits a
| gibberish localpart (on purpose) and your domain
| cheerfully accepts it.
|
| Don't get me wrong, I use catch-all too (don't tell
| spammers).
| layer8 wrote:
| I whitelist using regular expressions (specific prefixes
| mostly). Gibberish and random localparts are unlikely to
| match those, it effectively never happens.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Subaddressing != aliasing.
| mustaphah wrote:
| Aliasing !== masked email
| zamadatix wrote:
| Agreed, there are also ways to employ aliases which won't
| prevent spam, but this still doesn't explain the relation
| to the subaddressing regex or why other ways or employing
| aliases (e.g. masking) are never enough.
| jp191919 wrote:
| Using passmail aliases through protonmail has worked well
| for me, that way my domain isn't exposed. And everything
| forwards to one inbox.
| andrewshadura wrote:
| That's what I thought too until I moved to Fastmail. It
| certainly isn't worse.
| mustaphah wrote:
| Fastmail is great. It's just that I'm not willing to pay
| 5$ each month to send 5 emails from @mydomain.com. 1$ per
| email is too much, right?
| alextingle wrote:
| Gmail is absolutely terrible for false positives. I'm sure
| they do it deliberately to discourage people from using
| other e-mail services.
| mustaphah wrote:
| What's your setup? If you're forwarding, an SPF-only
| aligned email will fail DMARC, and it's the sender's
| fault: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45441243
|
| Next time a legit email ends up in your spam folder, use
| this tool to figure out why:
| https://mxtoolbox.com/EmailHeaders.aspx
|
| I've had a few cases myself, and it's always been the
| sender's fault.
| tarboreus wrote:
| Yes, they do. But you'll get 5 responses saying you're
| doing something wrong.
| tarboreus wrote:
| This comment is from 1020.
| LightBug1 wrote:
| LOL. Thanks.
| f4uCL9dNSnQm wrote:
| It is at least 5 months since spammers use fake "delivery
| error" to skip the filter: http://old.reddit.com/r/cybersec
| urity/comments/1jzf6o2/fake_... . I would expect more from
| industry-leading company.
|
| Just joking, I expect nothing from GMail team after I
| noticed that "block sender" option just puts emails in spam
| folder instead of deleting them on arrival.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _I just can 't live without the Gmail spamfilter. It's just
| the best. Industry-leading; no question._
|
| I have accounts on Gmail and other services, and can say
| from close to a decade of use that Fastmail's spam filter
| is usually far better than Gmail's.
|
| Occasionally it'll fall behind for a few weeks, but always
| seems to catch up or surpass Google's.
|
| Over the last couple of months, for example, 100% of the
| spam I've received has come from Gmail. 0% from Fastmail.
| blibble wrote:
| doesn't work very well these days with SPF + DKIM
| mustaphah wrote:
| Only if the sender's DMARC setup is broken...
|
| If their DMARC alignment relies on SPF only, it will break.
| But if it relies on DKIM (far more common) or both SPF and
| DKIM (best practice), forwarding won't cause any issues.
|
| If your email breaks when forwarded, your setup is broken.
| Tons of people use Cloudflare Email Routing or similar
| services; you must account for them.
|
| That being said, I forward mail addressed @mydomain.com to my
| Gmail, and I've had a couple of cases where legit messages
| landed in spam because it was SPF-aligned only.
| herczegzsolt wrote:
| This will be a major inconvenience for migrating mail accounts. I
| used the POP feature a lot to get mails from one account to the
| other without requiring a client to do the dirty work.
|
| A migration is still possible, but needing to keep a client up
| and running to push up mails via IMAP will be a major painpoint.
| xp84 wrote:
| This sounds like an opportunity for a cool open source project:
| A container which checks a given POP account every few minutes,
| and copies the message into an IMAP server of your choice.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Someone created that project 29 years ago... fetchmail
|
| https://www.fetchmail.info/
| xp84 wrote:
| Am I expected to keep abreast of developments in the tech
| world every three decades?? I've been busy.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| Google has an email migration feature useful for one time
| migration.
| windows2020 wrote:
| Back to the old Thunderbird days I guess.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| By now, it's new and quite neat :)
| bcrl wrote:
| Some of us are still using mutt!
| jimrandomh wrote:
| I can't tell whether I use this; the description in the article
| sort-of matches a feature I use, but not exactly. The feature I
| use is labelled "Check mail from other accounts" and appears in
| the "Accounts and Import" tab in Gmail web; it causes Gmail to
| periodically retrieve emails from an external server using POP,
| and merge them into my main inbox. This article refers to the
| option "Check mail from other accounts", which matches, but also
| says "POP only works with a single device", which is false (wrt
| this feature) and makes me think it may be talking about
| something different.
|
| I'm hearing about this for the first time from HN (not from
| Google). I don't like having Google randomly drop IT tasks on my
| plate, and the possibility that emails might just silently stop
| being delivered is nighmarish. Sigh.
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| The top comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45440465
| makes it clear that what you're referring to is exactly what is
| being deprecated.
| jimrandomh wrote:
| No it doesn't make it clear, because it's written by a third
| party reading the same internally-inconsistent page I am; any
| information added beyond the Google documentation page is
| conjecture.
| znort_ wrote:
| "Gmail will no longer support checking emails from third-
| party accounts through POP." seems quite clear.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Good god Google can't be bothered to _not_ wreck shit
| that doesn 't cost them much, eh?
|
| Doesn't surprise me too much though, Gmail hasn't seen
| much maintenance and polish over the last few years.
| VladVladikoff wrote:
| Personally I'm happy about it. It's the kick in the butt
| I needed to get my last remaining crap off Google and
| shut down my accounts for good.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| What does "from a third-party account" mean?
|
| I have a test suite that accesses a gmail account through
| POP. It's a regular gmail account. Will that be affected?
|
| Edit: Okay I think not. But man is this confusing over
| whether it's Gmail that's doing the fetching over POP (a
| feature I had no idea existed) or somehting they're
| calling a third-party account fetching Gmail emails over
| POP.
| sixhobbits wrote:
| I use exactly this on my personal (free) and work (paid
| workspace) accounts. I got an official notification from Google
| that one member in my workspace (me) has used the feature in
| the last 30 days and will be affected. I didn't (yet) get a
| notification on my personal account.
|
| I also rely pretty heavily on this feature for a few very low
| traffic domains that I need but only have super set up on super
| clunky web mail, so I guess I'm in the market for a new mail
| client :(
| pmontra wrote:
| Maybe you can automatically forward mails from that domain to
| Gmail and find a way to label them.
|
| At worst you can write a mail client to do that by logging
| in, listing mails, mailing them to you and keeping track of
| what it already sent (sqlite?) They are very well known
| protocols with plenty of implementations, so probably a LLM
| can write the code with not much guidance.
| HumanOstrich wrote:
| Good luck getting consistent delivery to Gmail. Even
| Cloudflare's email forwarding keeps getting blocked /
| marked as spam.
| vdqtp3 wrote:
| Which is hilarious considering they can't seem to stop
| obvious spam from hitting my inbox
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| I essentially have only forwarded email in my gmail from
| my personal domain, and it has never been a problem for
| me.
| ahofmann wrote:
| I switched from Google workspace to zoho.com Zoho is dirt
| cheap and has great tools to import all my mail, contacts and
| calendar data.
| 486sx33 wrote:
| We're Gsuite because it happened before I joined the org
| and it's just too much of a pain to switch and get everyone
| re trained off of google apps
|
| Zoho has a lot of nice features and seems less evil. The
| ticket tracking email system is a really nice feature
| tempestn wrote:
| You could just set them up to forward to gmail instead. Even
| if you don't have a server to do this, you could use eg.
| Cloudflare email forwarding.
| andrewguru wrote:
| I run Mailcast.io which you can use to forward email on your
| domains to your personal Gmail account without setting up any
| new email client
| Navarr wrote:
| I imagine the "POP only works with a single device" is in
| reference to the Gmail App's support for POP
|
| POP access of a different account on the web would be the
| "Check mail from other accounts"
| mobilene wrote:
| Well _this_ is a pisser for sure. I've relied on POP3 email
| transfer for years and years so that I have one mailbox to check:
| Gmail.
| leptons wrote:
| I use Firebird and have it check my various Gmail accounts
| using imap, as well as non-google email accounts. Everything in
| one place.
| tarboreus wrote:
| For now.
| geor9e wrote:
| >one mailbox to check: Gmail.
|
| I do this, but I guess I'm safe, since I did it via the setting
| "Forward a copy of incoming mail to x and archive Gmail's copy"
| or equivilent option for each provider.
| pier25 wrote:
| Same. What are the alternative you're looking at? Currently
| looking at Zoho. Apparently Proton doesn't have third party POP
| accounts.
| zwieback wrote:
| Learned from this post that Gmail web had POP! Now I'll be
| mourning loss of a feature I never even used.
| invalidusernam3 wrote:
| I've been using it for many years, super simple way to have
| many email addresses deliver to a single gmail. The effort I'll
| spend migrating will be better spent setting up a non-Google
| alternative
| Dwedit wrote:
| You can still use a third-party mail client to POP off the
| server, then use IMAP to send it to Gmail.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| That isn't very responsive or convenient...
| Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote:
| Oh damn.I need to migrate everything.
| xp84 wrote:
| Hypothesis: This feature is actually a very serviceable way for a
| small business or individual to have a branded email address on
| very cheap email hosting, while getting Gmail features for free.
| Google wants such people to be paying for Google Workspace if
| they don't want to be advertising the Gmail brand on their
| address.
| czechdeveloper wrote:
| They did the same with free version of Google Workspace. It's
| just no longer free.
| xp84 wrote:
| Exactly. To Google, wanting to use a domain other than Gmail
| is a strong signal that they can probably shake you down for
| a few bucks a month. Sure it's just $7 for most of these
| people and they probably only have 1-2 accounts. But
| multiplied by how many million people they saw using this
| feature it could be worth it to Google. Plus also ending the
| infra cost of fetching.
|
| For those of us who were just using the feature to aggregate
| mail from other email addresses like an old Yahoo account or
| something, I doubt Google cares about it, they even probably
| kind of liked it that you're viewing their ads instead of the
| other guys, but they probably don't matter enough.
| beejiu wrote:
| Doesn't Google Workspace start at $7 per month? I can't see a
| business user going to those lengths to save $1 or $2 per
| month.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| I know businesses that use Gmail and have all their staff
| make username.businessname@gmail.com addresses.
|
| Do not bet against how much small businesses don't want to
| pay for stuff, you will always lose.
| cj wrote:
| The bigger cost of Google Workspace is the administrative
| overhead.
|
| The admin panel for Google Workspace is extremely powerful.
| Hundreds/thousands of settings. Great for medium/large
| businesses with a dedicated IT person. A huge headache for
| small businesses.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| I think a minimum of being able to shut down an account
| when you fire someone and delete the data is worth having
| manageability, but small businesses will do anything,
| even additional staff administrative overhead, to avoid
| paying a subscription.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| You can't both realize that getting people to pay you
| even a tiny but recurring subscription is how you get a
| fat and easy life, and at the same time fail to realize
| that paying anyone else even a tiny but recurring
| subscription is how you give someone else a fat and easy
| life at the expense of your own.
| cj wrote:
| The majority of small businesses aren't subscription
| based services. I was assuming we were talking about
| companies like your local coffee shop.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Same companies are also mortally offended by the very
| idea of having to pay salaries and (gasp!) taxes; asking
| them to also pay for tools feels like adding an insult to
| injury!
| londons_explore wrote:
| I always find the admin panel hugely restrictive. It's
| missing basic features like "just let me impersonate this
| user now".
|
| The number of times our support staff have to walk
| someone through the process of doing something when the
| ability to impersonate a user would just let them do it
| far quicker.
| metadat wrote:
| > Nobody deserves even a modicum of privacy. Let's make
| it 0 friction to inspect what they're doing at all times.
|
| Features cut both ways. Am I respectful of my work
| equipment? Yes. Would it be net good for my boss to
| automatically get a report of everything on my screen
| everyday, not particularly. So could we not have the
| largest platforms make it even easier than it already is
| to be creepy AF?
| cwillu wrote:
| Impersonation is not what you seem to think it is.
| nerdsniper wrote:
| Every system I design has this "impersonation" feature,
| and none of them have any capability for surveilling
| usage. It's just a way for me to see what my customers
| are seeing. Helps me understand their problems, bugs in
| my system, etc.
|
| I have direct access to all the prod databases and lots
| of tools for inspection/auditing. This isn't for that.
| It's for helping people by seeing/using the system
| through their eyes.
| layman51 wrote:
| It ideally doesn't need to be a privacy-invading thing,
| but rather a way for administrators troubleshoot issues a
| bit easier without having to get on a screensharing call.
| I think maybe what makes it difficult is that Gmail might
| be used as the key to authenticate into other accounts
| (like for shadow IT).
|
| And in the ideal case, even this action that a Google
| Workspace administrator logged in as someone else would
| be automatically written into an audit trail.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| It's funny how many assume impersonation is all about
| privacy, when it's really about empathy: letting you see
| the situation through the eyes of the person you're
| trying to help, instead of just responding I don't have
| that problem in my setup or when using a god account.
| jonathantf2 wrote:
| I have had multiple people scream at me on the phone for
| daring to suggest that a new person working needs their own
| email account and it will cost about PS4 ($5.30~) a month
| luckydata wrote:
| you work for the wrong people
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| If only life could be so easy that we could all avoid
| working for the "wrong people".
| schnable wrote:
| Going from $0? That isn't surprising.
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| Yeah... but Workspace has other problems. The only thing
| Workspace gives you is a more direct way to pay Google until
| they freeze your account.
| pier25 wrote:
| Per user/domain.
|
| I'm retrieving POP emails from multiple domains. To migrate
| to Google Workspace I'd need to pay like $40 per month... and
| a couple of those inboxes rarely receive any emails.
| tln wrote:
| Very cheap email hosting still generally comes with IMAP I
| think? Which gmail is still supporting. EG Namecheap $1/mo
| email comes with IMAP.
| cracki wrote:
| How is google mail still supporting a "fetch" via IMAP of
| mails stored in a third party service? What are the settings
| to poke on mail.google.com for this?
|
| The announcement clearly says that "Check mail from other
| accounts" will disappear. They say it's about POP, but if the
| entire feature disappears, then it's not just about POP.
| entropie wrote:
| Iam not sure about that - the wording is weird
|
| > Starting January 2026, Gmail will no longer provide
| support for the following:
|
| > POP: Unlike IMAP connections, with POP, emails are
| downloaded, and you decide how often you want to download
| new emails.
| sossles wrote:
| I have an email forwarder on my personal domain that forwards
| to my gmail address, and gmail lets me send email as if it were
| coming from that address. Seems like it's the same result, and
| they're not blocking that.
| lmm wrote:
| They've been gradually making it more difficult (you now have
| to use a backdoor route with a machine access token if you
| want to register a new sending address).
| anty wrote:
| Gmail quietly drops forwarded mails sometimes. They don't put
| them into the spam directory, either.
| pbreit wrote:
| IMAP, which is MUCH better at doing the same thing, is still
| supported.
| DominikPeters wrote:
| It is not supported. You can only add an IMAP mailbox on the
| mobile app and not on gmail.com. The IMAP account is then
| displayed as an inbox completely separate from your gmail
| inbox. There is no pull and no integration.
| pbreit wrote:
| Ah, I see, I think you're right. I misread the Google doc.
| yaur wrote:
| POP has been a problematic protocol since 2000 or so.
| xp84 wrote:
| Perhaps for main email-management use, but it perfectly fits
| the model of yanking a single stream of email from server A
| to load into server B - without resorting to forwarding,
| which is problematic because the middlemen don't want the
| spam that gets forwarded to reflect poorly upon their IP
| reputation.
| yard2010 wrote:
| I would happily pay to get something else than the enshitified
| Gmail experience
| pier25 wrote:
| > _while getting Gmail features for free_
|
| Maybe initially. But if you use Gmail for third party email
| storage (which is what the POP feature is really about) after
| some time you'll have to pay for Google One for more storage.
| lxgr wrote:
| What in the world was "Gmailify"? Was it different from adding
| third-party accounts via POP? (Was it maybe just IMAP for third-
| party accounts?)
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| I think it was adding third party accounts via POP but
| automated for large well known third parties.
| Tyr42 wrote:
| It was IMAP sync between the Gmail server and the
| Outlook/Yahoo/etc server.
|
| Then you have a regular Gmail account and get notifications,
| spam checking, mobile push notifications etc.
| lxgr wrote:
| Thank you! I never knew this was a thing.
|
| So it was only available for a small list of services?
| bound008 wrote:
| I'm not one to defend google, but it seems that they are only
| ending support for POP accounts, and retaining support for
| IMAP/SMTP. Seems like a reasonable deprecation for 2025, although
| they could have given more than a quarter to let people handle
| the change.
| bigwheels wrote:
| But why do they need to remove the functionality? It's been
| working fine for around 2 decades.
|
| As a user of the feature, this is supremely annoying. They
| didn't even send me a warning message it will be discontinued.
| cyberax wrote:
| Likely because one of the backend systems that implements
| this functionality depends on some deprecated service. And
| nobody cares enough to port the POP checker to use something
| new.
| warp wrote:
| Google nowadays just seems afraid to store personal data.
| Google have moved your maps history/timeline to be on-device
| only, seemingly in response to geofence warrants. They're
| also deprecating health (Google Fit) APIs, and moving that
| data to be on-device.
|
| So, removing POP (where they need to download emails to their
| servers), and only supporting IMAP (where emails stay on the
| third-party server) via their GMail app, that would be
| consistent with a policy to store as little personal data as
| possible. (it could also be completely unrelated :)
| sumanep wrote:
| IMAP was never supported and is still not supported for
| external account un gmail web. And they don't remove pop.
| You can use pop to access your gmail in any email client or
| in the app if you wish.
| DominikPeters wrote:
| They have worded things dishonestly to make you think that POP
| can be replaced by IMAP. The IMAP support is only available in
| the mobile app (not gmail.com) and isn't a "fetch" that
| integrates fetched emails to your Gmail inbox. It's kept as a
| separate inbox.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| That doesn't make sense if it is POP to third party accounts
| because they've never supported IMAP to third party accounts.
| sumanep wrote:
| You didn't understand the article. You can use your gmail with
| POP or IMAP. What you won't be able to do is to use POP (IMAP
| was never an option) to download emails from external account
| into your gmail account.
| timbre1234 wrote:
| Fetchmail ftw
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| Aaaah, OK. So connecting _to_ Gmail via POP is still going to
| work. I use that with a (otherwise rarely used) Thunderbird
| instance to keep a live backup of my mail. Because I 'm old
| enough that I don't feel I "own" my data unless it's on a storage
| device I own.
| cracki wrote:
| There are two "Gmail" things here: the actual service with a web
| site (mail.google.com), and an android app on your phone that is
| called "Gmail".
|
| They are axing the "pull" path of the actual service. That path
| only supported POP for pulling those mails. There never was an
| IMAP pull path.
|
| They are telling you to read your mails of the "other" account by
| configuring your Gmail app to access it via IMAP. That obviously
| won't import those mails from the other account into your Gmail
| account.
|
| The solution is to push. Configure whatever system handles the
| "other" mail address to _forward_ the mails to your Gmail
| account.
| commandersaki wrote:
| _The solution is to push. Configure whatever system handles the
| "other" mail address to forward the mails to your Gmail
| account._
|
| Yep, I have 4 gmail addresses that I set to copy and forward to
| my fastmail inbox, unless gmail kills that feature I am golden.
| mikaraento wrote:
| Heads-up to people trying this: Gmail will often put forwarded
| email into spam. Be careful especially in the beginning to
| check your spam folder. They may also reject the mail as spam,
| esp if your volume is large.
|
| IIUC it's hard to make forwarding to play nicely with DKIM and
| spf. There's some disagreement on how to handle it. (I'm being
| purposefully vague as I did interact with folks handling this
| on the google side and don't want to cause them trouble for
| helping me out).
| enkrs wrote:
| There are also rate limits on Google side for incoming mails.
| By just forwarding four domains to my Gmail I used to hit
| them quite often. Then 2 years ogo, I stopped forwarding and
| switched to the now discontinued Gmail fetching domain mails
| over POP...
| sumanep wrote:
| In the gmail app you can use both protocols POP or IMAP. The
| article is about fetching external accounts in gmail web.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| The article isn't explicitly clear about whether or not POP
| will continue working with the mobile apps or not though.
| jaykru wrote:
| RIP gomailify :( https://www.gomailify.com
| ranger_danger wrote:
| emailnator.com
| metadat wrote:
| I suppose the heyday is over, it's time to migrate to something
| else. Oh, I won't be able to POP push gmail to my new email
| address, nice.
|
| There is an opportunity for someone to make a low-friction
| service which does server-side forwarding via IMAP with decent
| anti-spam. If done right, you could soak up a significant chunk
| of the Internet email biz.
| gazby wrote:
| > I suppose the heyday is over, it's time to migrate to
| something else. Oh, I won't be able to POP push gmail to my new
| email address, nice. > > There is an opportunity for someone to
| make a low-friction service which does server-side forwarding
| via IMAP with decent anti-spam. If done right, you could soak
| up a significant chunk of the Internet email biz.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| POP doesn't do push, only pull, and it seems that gmail will
| still support clients using POP.
|
| There is no chance another email service will get any chunk of
| Internet email if it has to charge for services.
| devmor wrote:
| Oh man there goes my access to my old college email from 14 years
| ago that for some reason never got deactivated, just web login
| restricted.
| seydor wrote:
| They are discontinuing fetching from POP server, but fetching
| from IMAP is not supported either. So they are discontinuing
| fetching altogether, right?
|
| it won't even be available in the paid version, right?
|
| why are they being confusing?
| kumarharsh wrote:
| IMAP is supported afaik:
| https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78892?hl=en#zippy=
| bonzini wrote:
| That's fetching from Gmail via IMAP.
|
| With IMAP there's no particular need for fetching from third
| party accounts. The article itself says that IMAP is
| supported in the app ("You can still read and send emails
| from your other account within the Gmail app. This uses a
| standard IMAP connection, which is supported in the Gmail
| mobile app"). But indeed this removes altogether the
| possibility to fetch from third-party accounts into Gmail.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| I finally figured out the confusion here. What a terribly worded
| article. Could mean two different things:
|
| 1) Some kind of third-party account (whatever that is) can no
| longer check (fetch) emails from Gmail via POP. I have a test
| suite that uses POP to fetch emails from Gmail, so this concerns
| me.
|
| 2) Gmail itself can no longer fetch emails from other email
| accounts over POP (a feature I had no idea existed).
|
| I guess it means #2. But it took me a long time to figure that
| out. You'd think a $trillion company could word things better.
| nl wrote:
| "from third-party accounts" is a better worded version of your
| (2).
|
| Your (1) would be worded in the opposite order.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| The problem is unless you know what "third-party accounts"
| means, it's ambiguous as to which account is being connected
| to and which account is doing the connecting over POP. "Gmail
| will no longer support checking emails from [thing I'm
| unclear on] over POP."
|
| The whole sentence hinges on knowing that Gmail itself can
| (or could) become a client and go out to other email accounts
| and fetch emails over POP. In my mind I'm wondering, "Are
| they talking about something like where Slack connects to
| gmail?"
| makach wrote:
| It's a shame. I use this functionality to retrieve and delete
| messages from other mailboxes on a daily basis in order to use
| Gmail as my primary email interface.
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| Yeah. The interface isn't bad. Just remember to backup your
| email somewhere.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| I do the opposite. I forward all my gmails to my primary
| account.
| manmal wrote:
| I'm using this feature, and I've understood the article right
| away. Yes it's #2, a little known but very useful feature that
| I have no idea how I'll replace.
| comboy wrote:
| Does your other account not provide IMAP?
| manmal wrote:
| No
| DarkmSparks wrote:
| Its google that never supported fetching mails over imap,
| not clear if they do now.
| Strom wrote:
| The other account may provide IMAP but it won't help you
| because GMail only supports POP (which is now going away).
| GMail does NOT support IMAP for 3rd party accounts.
|
| The GMail mobile app does support IMAP, but that is
| different from GMail as a service supporting it. The mobile
| app having IMAP support does nothing for people who use a
| web browser.
| rhyswallace wrote:
| Google Workspace handles this nicely (for $10/month...). I
| used to use the to-be-deprecated feature but ran into some
| occasional issues, so I bit the bullet to go to Workspace.
|
| Feels overkill just to achieve the same outcome as we
| previously had for free, though.
| seydor wrote:
| My understanding is it will be removed from both paid and
| unpaid versions of Gmail, no?
| ritzaco wrote:
| I use it on my paid workspace account and personal, and I
| got a notification on the paid workspace account that it
| will be unavailable.
|
| I guess it applies to the free account too but they just
| don't bother to state it (yet).
| tempestn wrote:
| Set your other accounts to forward them to your gmail with
| ARC headers, which gmail now supports. Used to be forwarding
| into gmail was almost unusable due to spam false positives,
| but I've found it to be significantly improved now (albeit
| not perfect).
| manmal wrote:
| The other account (over which I have no administrative
| control) does not support ARC. Yes I guess I'll just
| forward emails.
| latexr wrote:
| Unrelated, but I noticed this in your two comments and it
| seems to be something you do frequently--you're using the
| wrong side of the quotation character as the apostrophe.
| You're using ' but it should be '. See the difference:
| I'll VS I'll.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_single_quotation_mark
| f_allwein wrote:
| no, it should be ' (ASCII 39,
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe )
| latexr wrote:
| The page you linked to lists both ' and ', _in that
| order_. There's no point in being (wrongly) pedantic
| about either, both have strengths and weaknesses
| (explained in the Wikipedia pages). The point is that if
| someone cares to use proper typographic characters not
| immediately visible in the keyboard (which the person I
| replied to seems to), they probably care to use the right
| ones. Both ' and ' are correct, but ' is not.
| hluska wrote:
| It's interesting that you say there's no point in being
| pedantic but this entire boring subthread started because
| you were pedantic about punctuation. A character really
| doesn't matter.
| manmal wrote:
| Yeah the German/English combined iOS keyboard is not
| working well.
| Vinnl wrote:
| Hmm, I transitioned from Gmail to my own domain years ago,
| but it's still Gmail. However, I'm still both receiving and
| sending mail from my old @gmail.com address, using POP. Do
| you know if that's still possible?
| paffdragon wrote:
| I also have an old Gmail account that I don't use
| directly anymore. Instead of POP, I set it up to forward
| everything to my mailbox.org account. It works for me
| this way for several years now. The only issue is that I
| don't get the spam forwarded, so you can't see if there
| are false positives. You can still see it in Gmail if you
| occasionally log in. For me, since this is a rarely used
| account, the spam I get is usually indeed spam, so I
| don't miss it. It might be different for a more active
| account, though.
| Vinnl wrote:
| Cool thanks, I might set that up as well. And did you
| just set it up as an alias so you can send email from it
| as well?
|
| (I don't actually know how often I send email from that
| address, so maybe I don't even need that, but just in
| case.)
| saghm wrote:
| I switched to doing this just last week (having been using
| POP3 previously). It's honestly a lot nicer in IMO, since
| the emails show up on the gmail side pretty much
| immediately instead of sometimes being delayed.
| crazygringo wrote:
| I just had to check how I've set up my Gmail to collect all
| my e-mail from other accounts.
|
| Fortunately, they're all set up to forward to Gmail. Gmail
| never checks them itself.
|
| Does e-mail forwarding not work in your case?
| manmal wrote:
| It works but is prone to being marked as spam.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Thank you. I still use POP to download and backup my emails.
| Terribly worded article.
| hollerith wrote:
| I understood the title right away despite never having known
| about the feature. (I knew about the standard way to use POP
| with a gmail account.)
| burnte wrote:
| It's number 2. But IMAP still works.
| pdntspa wrote:
| I've been using (2) for probably 15+ years, combined with
| tagging it has been great for consolidating multiple email
| boxes into one feed.
|
| That said you can get the same thing by setting up an auto-
| forwarder to your gmail box.
| ezconnect wrote:
| #2 was frequently used as a spam filter for private domain
| emails that don't want to deal with setting up spam filters on
| their mail servers. I used this a decade or so ago in one of my
| online store it was very good at spam filtering and you get to
| use one webmail client to process all your emails from
| different domains.
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| Yeah. Gmail is an anti-pattern. I was paying $10/month for
| workplace and a couple days ago they froze my account because I
| was accessing it via IMAP. Fortunately, I own the domain so I
| pointed it at amazon. I pretty much only use google apps to share
| docs I've written elsewhere, so I didn't really lose too much
| when I lost access to apps. It would be much cooler if there were
| a human I could talk to to find out what we did to trigger the
| account freeze. The only thing I can think of is I accessed my
| gmail account from a location I don't normally access it from
| (business trip) about a week after changing from SMS based 2FA to
| authenticator based 2FA.
|
| The cloud is someone else's computer. Sometimes they don't want
| you on their computer, even if you're paying them to be there.
|
| As a reminder, Google Takeout is your friend. We copy email off
| of gmail via IMAP, mostly so we can have a local backup. I use
| Takeout for my personal account. Had I thought google would
| freeze a paid account, I would have used Takeout every week or so
| to backup the few google apps docs I had up there.
| planb wrote:
| I'm paying for workplace too (ex-free account), can you share
| more details on why it was frozen? Did they give an explanation
| or do you just assume it was because you use IMAP? Do you never
| login to your account on the web and just had it in your mail
| client?
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| no explanation. no response to emails so I have no idea what
| we did.
| samat wrote:
| Did you try calling them?
| taneq wrote:
| Can I use POP3 to access Gmail? No. Ah okay, IMAP then? Also
| no.
|
| Edit: Ohhh. According to other posts it's about gmail not
| pulling email from other servers via POP3, not about accessing
| gmail.
| ndr wrote:
| Are you saying that accessing a gmail exclusively via IMAP
| won't keep the account alive?
| archb wrote:
| It doesn't seem to be the free Google account either. The
| fact it happened to a paid Google Workspace account is pretty
| concerning.
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| no, we also frequently accessed the webmail jnterface. or at
| least I did.
| internet2000 wrote:
| > no, _we_ also frequently accessed the webmail jnterface
|
| We? Did you share an account? That's way bigger a red flag
| than using IMAP.
| kwanbix wrote:
| If he is using GWorkspace he is probably having more than
| one user.
| jsheard wrote:
| > I was paying $10/month for workplace and a couple days ago
| they froze my account because I was accessing it via IMAP.
|
| I used to pay for Workspace and left because a good chunk of
| features across all Google products simply didn't work with
| Workspace accounts, or were held back for a year or more after
| free Google accounts got them. It's a mess. Then they kept
| increasing the price for good measure, and there's no off-ramp,
| if you stop paying then the account is left in a zombie state
| with _even less_ functionality than a free one until you start
| paying again.
|
| Do yourself a favour and use Fastmail or Proton or anything
| else for your vanity domain instead.
| Dennip wrote:
| This is a super annoying quirk, lots of things don't work
| well if you're using workspace as a normal gmail account, and
| they don't quite warn you up front.
| kevcampb wrote:
| Google converted my mum's Gmail account to a workspace
| account automatically. Now she can't use her bedroom alarm
| clock because it's connected to my dad's Gmail account and
| you can't share access to workspace accounts. It's stupidly
| maddening.
|
| And yes I realise that an IoT alarm clock is ridiculous,
| but that's not the point.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Off topic a bit: Facebook just converted my personal
| account to a professional account. I have no idea why.
| Although as I think about it for a moment, it might be
| related to the fact that I visit/use Facebook less than
| once a year....
| mattzito wrote:
| It was a proper Gmail account? Or was it an email@domain
| account that maybe was using her work email address?
|
| I'm asking because I used to work adjacent to this area,
| and I know of only a few scenarios where an account
| becomes a workspace account after being a consumer
| account.
| potatolicious wrote:
| It's pretty much my #1 example of Google's propensity for
| shipping its org chart.
|
| Workspace accounts come with their own compliance
| requirements and edge cases that products need to handle,
| but rather than do that and provide a consistent user
| experience most product teams don't answer to the relevant
| PAs and so don't care, and Workspace accounts are a small
| enough minority of users that nobody has to care.
|
| I've often railed against a particular way of doing product
| that's really common in our industry, but I suppose it's
| been a while so I'll do it again:
|
| We have a real problem with metrics-driven product
| development, where we _exclusively_ care about the 95% use
| case and actively disdain the 5% use cases.
|
| On paper it makes sense - you direct your energies towards
| the highest-payback activities. But the problem is that
| _every_ user falls into _some_ 5% use cases, so a product
| that is purely made up of 95% use cases ends up becoming a
| patchwork that is frustrating to every user, somehow.
|
| Rather than "product works great for 95% of users" you get
| "100% of users cut themselves on some corner of the
| product".
| abustamam wrote:
| What alternative to metrics-driven product development
| would you suggest?
| cardiffspaceman wrote:
| It has been said, a typical MS Office user only uses x%
| of the features of the software, but every one of those
| millions of users uses a different x%
| burnte wrote:
| I had to admin Google Workspace maybe 9-10 years ago. It
| was rough but I thought they'd beep refining it. I'm back
| in a company using GW and I swear to god it's gotten worse.
| The basic features that simple don't exist are boggling. It
| is not a serious product and I feel bad for companies that
| have to use it. I've been here three months and I'm already
| planning our migration away.
| jsheard wrote:
| It's a completely avoidable situation too, there's nothing
| stopping them from offering custom domains as a perk of
| paid Google One plans for regular Google accounts.
| Workspace is beyond overkill for individuals, you shouldn't
| _need_ all that complexity just to attach a custom domain
| to a personal Gmail account.
| GCUMstlyHarmls wrote:
| Is it possible to drop workspace, but keep the same account
| running for your android account? Or still log in with the
| same account (I guess downgraded to a non-paid account) for
| sheets etc?
| jsheard wrote:
| IIRC you can still log into a lapsed Workspace account, but
| the core "business" products like Gmail, Docs and Meet are
| completely disabled until you reactivate your subscription.
| The rest of Google still works to the extent that it ever
| did under the weird Workspace limitations.
|
| You cannot migrate a Workspace account into a regular
| Google account, you're stuck with Workspace forever unless
| you start over on a brand new account.
| greycol wrote:
| I honestly believe that last point is the reason people
| still have their free grand-parented in workspace
| accounts. Google went to close them down realized they
| didn't have a graceful way to let people keep their paid
| for apps and realized the engineering time to create a
| workspace to consumer migration was worth much more than
| any costs associated with those accounts.
| Mistletoe wrote:
| I tried Proton and my test emails couldn't even get through
| that I sent myself. Kept going to spam instantly. The big
| providers have us in a stranglehold here.
| jsheard wrote:
| Did you set up the SPF/DMARC/DKIM authentication records on
| your domain? Those can make a huge difference to
| deliverability.
| Mistletoe wrote:
| I don't have a domain. It was Proton emails going
| straight to Gmail spam. I absurdly have even had similar
| issues on fresh virgin iCloud email accounts going
| straight to spam in Gmail.
| esseph wrote:
| If all your domain email DNS records (security) are
| correctly set, you should be fine.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| "a good chunk of features across all Google products simply
| didn't work with Workspace accounts"
|
| Hugely frustrating - they penalize their paying customers.
| Can't attach Nest devices, can't use the YouTube family plan.
| injidup wrote:
| I have this annoying problem. When not plugged into my car I
| can say
|
| "Hey google remind me to call in sick tomorrow"
|
| and it will put an entry into the calendar for me.
|
| But if it is plugged into my car the same request will elicit
| an
|
| "I'm sorry please talk to your system administrator to get
| this feature enabled"
|
| This has gone on for years with google assistant and
| workspace accounts. There is always some random interlock in
| some byzantine permissions table that get's triggered at the
| most inconvenient moment and you can't do what yesterday you
| could do.
| _el1s7 wrote:
| > they froze my account because I was accessing it via IMAP
|
| Stop being misleading, this is your assumption.
|
| And while I agree that Google support generally sucks, you can
| actually contact real humans as a workspace customer easily.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| I don't know why you are downvoted or the parent is upvoted.
| Clearly the GP is not telling the details and it is highly
| doubtful that they freeze the workspace account ever without
| good reason. Unlike standard account, freezing worspace admin
| account for this definitely means huge customer loss.
| nemetroid wrote:
| Not really if they only ever do it for small, personal
| workspaces.
| LightBug1 wrote:
| Raises hand for another n=1 that I'm currently going through.
| My point being, it doesn't matter than you can get hold of
| someone because the bureaucracy is kafkaesque.
|
| WTF has happened to Google?
|
| We're a supplier being onboarded. We've been in on-boarding
| hell for about 2 months now.
|
| We've completed the job and are still being passed around
| teams in order to get paid.
|
| As an aside, one of the scourges of modern business is Ariba.
| Google use Ariba along with many other large organisations
| and it SUCKS.
|
| It feels like using Ariba forces big companies to map their
| bureaucracy around its structure rather than the other way
| around ... which means people getting bounced from team to
| team while different queries are raised and some random
| person somewhere raises another query, etc etc ... and even
| the internal staff struggle to make things happen.
|
| Whatever happens, it feels like the bureaucratic structure
| and use of Ariba has imprisoned staff at Google. They can't
| get beyond their own system now.
|
| The process was a real eye-opener as to what goes on when a
| firm becomes huge.
|
| In my experience, once a company implements Ariba, it's over
| and they're just cash-cowing it.
|
| The savings they make in automation are costs passed on to
| the consumer or supplier in the hassle factor of getting
| things done. I want to say "Never again", but that's not
| entirely my choice.
|
| /rant
| da_chicken wrote:
| > WTF has happened to Google?
|
| They're a publicly traded company, so the shareholders are
| the primary customer.
|
| They're an advertising and data harvesting company with
| significant investment in free-to-consumer services, so
| users are viewed as products. That means user support looks
| like overhead.
|
| They're extremely large and extremely diverse, so losing
| business is not a significant concern.
|
| The problem is that they have too many incentives to not
| care about you at all, even at the rates you're paying.
| MaciejR wrote:
| Off topic to the main point of this thread, but wanted to
| help you out. If there's a PR submitted, tell your main
| stakeholder to go into Ariba into the PR and have them
| locate the approval flow with the corresponding approvers.
| Then they can easily individually target the approvers to
| accelerate your PO and get you paid.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Most places I know of seem to use Microsoft 360 for "cloud
| office productivity apps" vs. Google Workspace. The
| exception being schools which tend to use Google (maybe
| because they often buy cheap Chromebooks for the kids?).
|
| IDK if Microsoft is better with onboarding or support but
| I'd be inclined to assume that given their longer history
| with Office and business customers.
| fauigerzigerk wrote:
| We (small tech company) migrated away from Microsoft 365
| because it was extremely buggy and many supposedly simple
| things are so incredibly complicated and convoluted.
|
| They have several overlapping admin sites for absolutely
| everything, plus some hidden old sites from the early
| 2000s that support will guide you to use for some archaic
| settings that still influence how more modern stuff
| works.
|
| In my experience, Microsoft support is good in the sense
| that they are easy to contact and keen to help. But
| working with them just took too much of my time. Their
| approach is to schedule a call to guide you through
| layers and layers of legacy stuff just to try things that
| often end up not working.
|
| With Google Workspace I don't actually know if support is
| good or bad because we never needed support in the first
| place. Google's software is far simpler and less buggy.
|
| We also use Proton now, which has been working pretty
| well so far. Better than expected.
|
| Microsoft 365 is for companies that can afford to employ
| a full-time, specialised Microsoft 365 admin.
| schnable wrote:
| I don't think anything happened regarding customer support.
| Culturally, Google on the non-ads products was always "we
| have a billion users, it's free, we're super smart and
| invented SRE, so we don't care about support." Enterprise
| tries harder but has that baggage.
| immibis wrote:
| They've always been like this.
|
| If you don't get paid for a contract, either repossess the
| work output, and/or file suit. That's the way to get paid
| for a contract when someone doesn't pay you for a contract.
| That's just how business is. A lot of businesses are out to
| get ahead by any means necessary.
| ossusermivami wrote:
| I wonder why people come to conclusion like that to that
| specific problem.
|
| surely the user may knows that there is probably zillions (by
| that i mean a lot) of users using gmail via IMAP (at least
| the enterprise accounts) don't you think it's maybe something
| else you are doing that flags your account
| mrgoldenbrown wrote:
| The main point is that a paying customer shouldn't have to
| _guess_ at why they were flagged.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| >> you can actually contact real humans as a workspace
| customer easily.
|
| This is only relative to the experience when you're a free
| google account user. Compared to alternatives like Fastmail
| contacting support - and actually getting a successful
| resolution - is still very difficult. I finally switched our
| org after many years when Google announced yet another price
| increase (nominally for things I don't want or need) and I
| really wish we'd gone sooner.
| hackernewds wrote:
| My anecdata counteracts your anecdata. Now how do we
| resolve this?
| isoprophlex wrote:
| In the face of uncertainty I've found being wary of
| faceless megacorps to be a pretty useful stance
| delichon wrote:
| Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing
| was ever made.
| ritzaco wrote:
| yep I had an issue with an ownership change of a Google
| Workspace account recently and to their credit it was
| fairly easy (as a paying customer) to find a human to talk
| to who could escalate to someone who could fix the issue.
| It still was an annoying process that took a couple of
| hours instead of a couple of minutes, but they certainly
| didn't just ghost me or leave me out for dead.
| recroad wrote:
| Ha, no way man. I've been trying to get YouTube/Google to
| reactivate my YouTube account for 14 years which has all my
| daughters baby videos (then a 2 year old). They shut it down
| due to some vague copyright violation which they still can't
| explain to me, and haven't activated it despite about 20
| support tickets being filed. And I'm a paying customer.
|
| BTW, if anyone works for Google here and can help me to get
| it back I'll pay you $100.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| You probably have a better chance if you put contact info
| in your profile
| Moto7451 wrote:
| >> you can actually contact real humans as a workspace
| customer easily.
|
| I can barely get replies from my Google Cloud rep and we're
| paying them a lot more than $10 per month. Having reps on
| staff doesn't mean they have time until things are escalated.
| When Google threw captchas up on Workspace accounts with
| integrations (which our product is) for 20ish minutes on
| Friday and everything was a panic we got responses from a few
| reps all at once, but mostly to hand wave away the outage.
|
| If you want a fun example there's a LegalEagle video where he
| details the difficulty in getting imposter accounts taken
| down from YouTube through his contacts. He's not just a
| random YouTube user, he makes them money.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEA0JzhpzPU&vl=en
|
| And for what it's worth, these experiences are what I have
| come to expect from everyone outside of the high tiers of AWS
| Premium Support and a couple other vendors where you pay what
| is essentially a timeshare agreement for a support team.
| e40 wrote:
| As a paying customer you had the ability to get a human on the
| line. Whether or not they would tell you why the account was
| closed is another matter.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| I imagine their support is like UPS/Fedex, where they do
| everything possible to get you to hang-up, make you sit and
| wait between harrowing phone menus, all so that you can get a
| person in India who only can see the same tracking website
| that you see.
| grapesodaaaaa wrote:
| I've had this happen to numerous friends.
|
| Haven't you heard? The best way to contact gmail support is by
| posting about it on tech websites /s
|
| It's sad that I often see resolutions happen here after an
| engineer scrolls through the comments. I agree that not having
| backups and your own domain is asking for trouble the way
| things are currently structured with online mail.
|
| I will say that I hosted my own servers for years, but it's a
| lot of trouble and not for everyone (plus, I could never quite
| get the spam filtering tweaked how I wanted).
| citizenpaul wrote:
| Google is absolutely notorious for freezing accounts with zero
| warning, zero explanation and zero recourse.
|
| I personally experienced this while working for a charity that
| used Google workspace. After 8 years they suddenly froze the
| account. The freeze lasted 32 days. During this period they
| could not operate and Google was completely unresponsive for
| the first 2 weeks. Google then started demanding various forms
| of proof of incorporation, various employee government ID's,
| things like that. We provided all this information. After
| another week of silence they started asking for ID's of people
| that did not even work there. We told them we could not provide
| this information, because of that. Silence. Finally at week 4
| we got a call from someone in India that told us there was
| nothing they could do and the response team would continue to
| investigate. We are not allowed any contact with the
| investigation team. Then 32 days after being locked out,the
| account was silently unlocked again with no explanation.
|
| I cannot discourage people from using any google product for
| their business any more strongly than this story. They are a
| terrible company and do not care at all about their customers.
| They are too big to fail so they just stomp all over you.
|
| Remember google has no way to contact them other than an email
| form. Which we filled out 2-5 per DAY, which went mostly un-
| responded to. In the painfully rare case that you do get
| someone one the phone they will just be someone in India that
| tells you sorry, nothing we can do.
| qiine wrote:
| crazy stuff, looks like youtube is the same
| kilroy123 wrote:
| I set a reminder on my calendar to do a take out every 3
| months and keep my data backed up and refreshed.
| Naomarik wrote:
| I was about a week from launching a react native app on
| iOS/Android, so decided to go through all the administrative
| motions to get things going in case there were any delays in
| getting that moving.
|
| Google Developer account cost me $25. A few days go by and I
| get an e-mail asking for identification documents and a bill
| that shows that I live at the place I'm at. I send my
| passport and utility bill with my name on it, those get
| rejected with absolutely 0 reason the next day.
|
| Zero explanation. I raised about 8 different support tickets
| and DMed several people on twitter and linkedin that worked
| for google and emailed a few higher up people.
|
| At one point I got some communication from a completely
| different department that wasn't accessible to the support
| lines publicly available, and it looked like they were going
| to help me.
|
| But in the end nothing.
|
| This was a copy/paste response I saw for every support
| ticket:
|
| Thanks for contacting the Google Play team.
|
| As much as I'd like to help, I'm not able to provide any more
| information. Unfortunately, we are unable to verify the
| documents you provided and are unable to grant your appeal.
|
| If you are located in the EU, you may have additional redress
| options. Learn more about those potential options in the EU
| Out-of-Court Dispute Resolution Help Center. Routing ID: ZLFS
|
| Thanks again for your understanding.
|
| My final response after a week of relentless effort:
|
| I'll concede in understanding that:
|
| No one has actually looked at my documents
|
| No one wants to give me a reason why you won't help me
|
| No one on your entire support team is capable of performing
| basic customer support tasks.
|
| Thanks for treating me like some untouchable beggar when you
| were the ones that stole $25 from me.
|
| Apple/iOS cost me $100 and my developer account was verified
| within two days with zero hassle.
| PeterStuer wrote:
| One more step to bring email in line with being messages on a
| website rather than messages on your computer.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| RIP to my OG Gmail account that I forgot the password to but
| still have POP access to via the Gmail web client.
| breakingcups wrote:
| Wonder if it's possible to change the POP server without
| changing the credentials... You could set up your own sniffer
| server to retrieve the password that Gmail sends to you.
| shagrath wrote:
| I'm in the same boat, and unfortunately, no
| mijoharas wrote:
| Somewhat related. What do people use to keep an offline backup of
| Gmail, and other mail accounts? Do you need to keep a full
| download of your mailbox, or is there some way to get an
| incremental dump (i.e. just things that changed since X)
| rendx wrote:
| I use imapsync. Yes you can limit it to mails sent or received
| in a certain timespan.
|
| https://imapsync.lamiral.info/FAQ.d/FAQ.Archiving.txt
| mijoharas wrote:
| Hey, first off, thanks.
|
| How do you go about that? The documentation says:
|
| Q. Can imapsync be used to maintain and restore a local
| offline copy of a mailbox, eg for backup purposes, using Mbox
| or Maildir format, so that if the server fails, then the
| mailbox could be reinstated?
|
| R1. No. Imapsync plays with IMAP servers only.
| password4321 wrote:
| I'm guessing imapsync could be used to transfer email into
| Gmail to replace this POP client feature that is being
| removed, as long as it can sync into a folder.
| krageon wrote:
| https://isync.sourceforge.io/mbsync.html
|
| It's the most performant solution that's also mature. I've used
| it for years to retrieve all of my email accounts (of which
| gmail is one) to a folder that I also backup.
| mijoharas wrote:
| Is there any way to only get a subset of the mail (i.e. only
| changes in last week).
|
| I don't think I want all my email on my local machine, but I
| do think I want it all in the backups.
|
| I couldn't see anything digging in.
| jamespo wrote:
| Docker image of gmvault which still works for me even though
| the project is basically abandoned:
| https://hub.docker.com/r/aubertg/gmvault-docker/
| paffdragon wrote:
| On one machine I have offlineimap.py[1] (with mutt), on the
| other laptop Evolution[2] that archives my mail locally that I
| can also export and back up regularly.
|
| [1]: https://www.offlineimap.org/
|
| [2]: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution/-/wikis/home
| mijoharas wrote:
| Ok, interesting. I checked the docs of offlineimap (thanks, I
| hadn't found that one when googling!) and it looks like I
| could use the `maxage` option for the incremental option (I
| think I want to create a folder for each week, back it up ,
| and delete it after a while).
|
| Do you have anything set up with evolution to handle things
| automatically?
| carlosjobim wrote:
| An e-mail client? At least that's how I do it, and it's been
| working well for decades.
| mijoharas wrote:
| My problem is I don't want to keep my entire email
| downloaded, but to periodically back things up.
|
| Do you use your email client to periodically backup? (I would
| like it automated).
|
| Do you use thunderbird or something else if so?
| carlosjobim wrote:
| E-Mails don't take up that much space for it to be any
| issue to me. Every five years or so I clean out some of the
| old ones and leave them only in backups.
| srb24 wrote:
| POP is not perfect (could a new version be created - POP4??) but
| IMAP is not always the solution. For one thing it makes switching
| mail provider very hard when you haven't got a copy of all your
| historic emails - with POP you just change settings and away you
| go. Ms are also always trying to turn off POP access for the
| Office Outlook program. Hmmmmmm It's almost as if both they and
| Google run two of the largest subscription email hosting
| platforms which would both benefit if it's harder for people to
| change provider... Of course the less you download the more you
| have to store on their servers and the more you store the more
| you pay and of course every day brings more emails to store....
| yreg wrote:
| This is about uploading data to gmail. You continue to be able
| to download from gmail via pop3.
| randomtoast wrote:
| Gmail's endgame plan is that virtually everyone in the world is
| forced to use Gmail or have a very reduced email experience.
| vladms wrote:
| Good luck with that. I changed to a different provider like 10
| months ago and to be honest I do not see big differences.
|
| It was a problem with a couple of other sites that don't allow
| you to change your user/email, but we can't blame that on
| Gmail.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Well, I'm that Gmail user who used POP3 fetching from my previous
| email from day 1 of using Gmail. I guess I'll have to set up IMAP
| then, at least until the time they'll take it away, too.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| I would replace POP with forwarding unless you are okay with
| storing your email in multiple services.
| xdanger wrote:
| Oh no, I have to go and setup my family's emails again. We have a
| domain and I used to forward to some gmail accounts (few don't
| want to use multiple email programs/accounts), but so much mail
| got lost (not even in spam folder) that I just had to switch
| everyone to pop3 fetch to gmail.com. Now at least email get's
| there, even if it's 30-60mins late (really annoying for
| logins/verifications/etc.).
|
| Maybe it's time to switch everyone out of gmail and make gmail
| forward the email to out hosted accounts.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| Migadu.
| lagniappe wrote:
| Migadu.
| noirscape wrote:
| They're almost certainly doing this to put the screws on Gmail
| users. Data export compat isn't great with Gmail to begin with,
| but at least with a vanity domain you could have the option to
| use that instead and if Google went bad, you could still use it
| directly without having to reconfigure a lot of stuff. (Since
| this feature is meant to integrate with shared hosting providers
| that offer an email service "for free".)
|
| Axing this feature (title is slightly misleading - you can't do
| the same thing over IMAP with the Gmail service; external mail
| fetch is dead) is an attempt to get people to stop using vanity
| domains so they're locked in/tied to the Gmail ecosystem.
|
| Pretty awful and I wonder how wise of a business decision this
| is, given Google is one of the companies who's getting side-eyed
| in Europe due to being an American big tech company with ties to
| the US government. Wouldn't be surprised if a good number of
| people will just abandon the big G's mail service as a result.
| Regular people (so not tech people) are more aware about this
| sort of thing than they were before, and Gmail specifically has
| been getting the stinkeye because of how obvious it is. This will
| only end up confirming those fears.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| Forwarding works fine and has been how I've always used gmail.
| sumanep wrote:
| Yahoo doesn't allow forwarding anymore
| sumanep wrote:
| You can't do the same thing with imap.
| CTOSian wrote:
| I am using the gmail web-app to access emails from eg yahoo and
| outlook, well if they pull off the plug of this feature (gmail
| mobile app only) no big deal - sod off gmail (web app again)
| there is zoho that you can do this with a very small cost (abt
| PS1/mo IIRC)
| cess11 wrote:
| I think most readers here could afford a domain name and email
| accounts with some local or otherwise small provider, that's a
| much better option.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| That's a terrible idea - putting your email at risk with a
| small local provider is asking for future trouble.
| anty wrote:
| Is there any solution that does not require me to run my own
| email server?
|
| I have a 2GB email server. I use POP to regularly import the
| mails into Gmail. This deletes the mails on my limited-storage-
| server.
|
| I already pay for Google storage. I do not want to pay (more) for
| another email server just so I can keep all my emails forever.
|
| Forwarding mails does not work, because Gmail quietly drops
| mails. They don't even put them into the spam folder.
|
| My webhoster told me I could pay for Google Workspace. There you
| apparently can use your own domain. But then I have a third
| service I have to pay.
| Jolter wrote:
| Did you rule out using IMAP?
| anty wrote:
| With IMAP i need to run a mail server that stores my mails
| forever, right? I want to "import" a copy into Gmail and
| delete it on the original server.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| Forwarding is the right solution, but it needs to be at a lower
| level than a regular user style email forward - more like a DNS
| delivery change.
| noduerme wrote:
| FUCK THIS. This is disgusting.
|
| I've been using Thunderbird for 10 years as the way I normally
| download my gmail. I have no interest in using IMAP, I store
| everything locally.
|
| I suppose the idea is that they can make more money if you don't
| delete after you download your mail, then you have to pay them
| for storage?! Is that what this is about??
|
| Because there have to be a small handful of people in the world
| still using POP to access gmail. Feels fucking personal.
| StopDisinfo910 wrote:
| The article is about Gmail checking third party account through
| POP and not about checking Gmail using POP which remains
| supported.
| noduerme wrote:
| Ah. Thanks. Since I don't have any kind of multiple account
| setup with Gmail, it really wasn't clear on a first read of
| the article that it wouldn't apply to all POP access. Sigh of
| relief...? Sirens going off? I run my own mail server, but I
| use gmail as a backstop - i.e. if a hosting provider needed
| to verify me, _that_ would go to my gmail account. I should
| probably radically reconsider that now before it 's too late,
| because I really don't like the way this is trending.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| I hope so but the article is incredibly unclear about that
| since it suggest an alternative is to configure IMAP on your
| third party account as an option.
| hackernewds wrote:
| Bit of an overreaction since your use case isn't being affected
| at all. Rather they are making no money off it, and continue to
| support it.
| noduerme wrote:
| That was not very clear from the article, but yeah.
| Understood. I don't even know wtf "third party accounts" are.
| Nowhere does it say that they will continue to support :995
| access. They should mention that somewhere.
| Hnrobert42 wrote:
| This seems to affect only checking 3rd party email addresses
| using POP. I think you can still use TB with POP to get your
| mail that goes straight to Gmail.
| sylware wrote:
| And a few months ago, they did, literaly, block noscript/basic
| (x)html browsers for their dominant search engine (right before
| that they were white-listing a few of those browsers).
|
| Gogol has been on the super evil guys side for a while. The US
| admin has been trying to "anti-trust" them for years, without any
| results to make them behave: because its need to have a technical
| part. With enforced, minimal, simple and good enough to do the
| job technical protocols/file formats. Usually, a small subset of
| what it is already running IRL would be defined as those
| protocols/file formats. For the web, that would be noscript/basic
| (x)html (remember when most of the web was running perfectly fine
| with basic html forms?)
|
| All that to allow alternative small implementations to be real-
| life alternatives.
|
| I could buy on amazon with lynx browser hardly a few years back,
| now I cannot (well I have not tried in a while), the agenda of
| the devil is followed perfectly.
| anentropic wrote:
| That sinking feeling...
|
| I have no idea if I'm using this. I set something up like 20
| years ago when migrating from a self-hosted email to Gmail. But I
| think maybe at least one of my addresses might still be a POP
| mailbox.
| chanux wrote:
| They would surely send an e-mail with the specifics if you are
| affected, right?
| bborud wrote:
| I have a Google Workspace for my family. Mostly for email. Has
| anyone had a similar setup and moved in to Protonmail?
| shauntest12321 wrote:
| Forward Email for me.
| paride5745 wrote:
| I already started to move most of my communications to
| ProtonMail. Looks like Google wants to force people to use the
| WebUI instead of email clients (no google ads on IMAP/POP).
|
| What's annoying is that they are impacting paying customers as
| well, which is quite bad.
| kelvinjps10 wrote:
| But Proton doesn't offer good third-party access either;
| actually, Gmail is better
| ianhawes wrote:
| I suspect this has much more to do with bad actors using
| automated means to access Gmail and send spam.
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| How does gmail using POP to retrieve messages to your account
| from your account with another service facilitate spam and
| how can the bad actor take advantage of that?
| sumanep wrote:
| That does not make sense
| newscracker wrote:
| Last I checked, Proton Mail does not support standard email
| client protocols. So you're stuck with its apps and a browser
| interface or with buying a paid subscription and using a bridge
| software on desktop to use a client like Thunderbird. Getting
| mails out of Proton Mail is also not as easy as setting up a
| client with IMAP or using other tools like imapsync.
| paride5745 wrote:
| The point is that Google is harming paying customers, and as
| a paying customer Proton respects me more and it is based in
| Europe, which is a big plus for me.
| ndiddy wrote:
| > Looks like Google wants to force people to use the WebUI
| instead of email clients (no google ads on IMAP/POP).
|
| I think that's a valid criticism, but Protonmail also
| doesn't allow people to use a standard email client. I
| agree with the parent commenter that it's strange that
| you're suggesting it as an alternative, especially when
| there's services like Fastmail and Purelymail that both
| have accessible human support and let you use a standard
| email client.
| fullstop wrote:
| I switched from Proton -> Fastmail and have been happy
| with the transition.
|
| You get more "stuff" from a ProtonMail subscription, but
| I really just want email.
| deadbabe wrote:
| Why not just use Gmail api?
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| I'm having a really good experience with Proton. I even
| interacted with them here on HN once, they cleared up some
| uncertainties by posting technical OpenPGP information that
| wasn't covered in their documentation.
| daitangio wrote:
| I set up my personal mail server https://github.com/docker-
| mailserver/docker-mailserver and I have wrote about it here
| https://gioorgi.com/2020/mail-server-on-docker
|
| I am GMail-free from 2020 and I am a lot happier.
|
| I keep my GMail account, but I use just as failsafe or as
| seconday account. In the meantime, I have very little trouble
| managing my mail-server.
| ddtaylor wrote:
| Wow this is awesome!
| enigma101 wrote:
| that's a bit rich from google to not support the essential
| protocol of email
| NetMageSCW wrote:
| Are there other email services that support scheduled POP
| transfer of email from other accounts?
| michaelbryzek wrote:
| Thanks for mentioning Google Takeout - was not aware of that
| service and found it very useful
| schnable wrote:
| It's amusing to me that big friendly Google that started out
| giving massive amounts of storage away for free (effectively
| unlimited at the time) has been on a kick to roll that back.
| bunderbunder wrote:
| Their advertising used to be so wildly profitable that they
| just straight-up had money to burn. That business model has
| been getting less and less sustainable as their advertising
| profits continue to erode.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Stop using gmail. I bought a Proton Mail subscription. Truly one
| of the best things I've ever done.
| mcpar-land wrote:
| especially if you have a custom domain with google workspace
| (or whatever it's named now). my switch to pointing my domain
| from google to proton was totally painless, you can migrate all
| your old emails, etc.
|
| i imagine if you just have an @gmail.com it might be a little
| more annoying what with having to do forwarding, but still
| worth it.
| ImJamal wrote:
| Proton doesn't support pop either?
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| I didn't need it. Alternatives like fastmail should be good
| in that case.
| pier25 wrote:
| Well fuck. I've been using this feature since I started using
| Gmail in 2007 or so.
| DamnInteresting wrote:
| I'm in the same boat, watching Google preparing to capsize it.
| I'm a paying customer, and they keep making my life more
| difficult.
| nla wrote:
| The Google enshitification continues unabated.
| neves wrote:
| Everytime someone tells me about the advantages of
| decentralization, I ask them to explain me why e-mail, the
| decentralization protocol per excellence, now is centralized in a
| handful of companies.
| chrisfinazzo wrote:
| Why are people surprised by this? (No, really)
|
| IMAP "defeated" POP _long_ ago if you wanted to use a third-party
| client but still access mail from anywhere.
|
| By definition, this doesn't work in a POP environment, but that's
| increasingly an outdated mindset.
|
| For historical reasons (intertia, and being early enough that I
| was able to acquire a "firstname.lastname" address), I don't plan
| to leave Gmail unless things really go south. My personal domain
| (Fastmail) is used for other things and I've never anything other
| than Mail.app and their own web interface.
| mlhpdx wrote:
| I'm so glad I bit the bullet and wrote my own email service.
| arbuge wrote:
| Lots of comments here suggesting forwarding emails from the
| external account to Gmail as a workaround for this.
|
| This isn't a complete workaround though. In particular, the
| option to delete the email from your server after retrieving it
| will not be replaceable. At least cPanel doesn't seem to offer
| the option to delete automatically after forwarding, and you
| could argue it shouldn't - with a push, you never know if the
| other end actually got it, unlike with a pull.
| wiseleo wrote:
| I've been using this feature (POP3 fetch from external accounts,
| send as external accounts) for over 10 years. It's unfortunate
| that it will break soon. :(
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Funny, at the same time Microsoft is making it mandatory to do
| just that if you want to use outlook with another provider.
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