[HN Gopher] Greenland is a beautiful nightmare
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Greenland is a beautiful nightmare
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 397 points
       Date   : 2025-09-27 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (matduggan.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (matduggan.com)
        
       | topkai22 wrote:
       | I flew over Greenland coming back from Europe recently. From the
       | air, the fjords and glacial snowscapes there and in northern
       | Canada are profoundly beautiful and completely devoid of signs of
       | humans in a way you don't see even in some of the remotest parts
       | of the US.
       | 
       | Definitely worth opening the shade for if you have the
       | opportunity
        
         | jamesblonde wrote:
         | The best flights are to/from Seattle. Copenhagen/Seattle goes
         | over the far north of Greenland.
        
           | tobinfekkes wrote:
           | Same here. My favorite pictures from flights are from the
           | London/Seattle route over Greenland.
        
         | SilverElfin wrote:
         | I've flown that way but got absolutely blinded by whatever is
         | outside - it was very hard to tell any details on the land
         | below.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | fun-fact: CIA is currently mucking around in Greenland trying to
       | get rid of people against annexation
       | 
       | this is not going to end well
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0j9l08902eo
       | 
       | https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | I don't think that's an accurate characterization of either of
         | those articles. It sounds like they're trying to find groups
         | who want to be independent, probably with the goal of
         | artificially propping them up. It's still gross, but not as
         | gross as hunting dissidents.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | >find groups who want to be independent, probably with the
           | goal of artificially propping them up
           | 
           | The same thing is happening in Alberta. It is unsettling and
           | disturbing
        
             | dismalaf wrote:
             | The Trudeau/Carney government is doing that all on their
             | own. Just gonna drop this here:
             | 
             | https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locatio
             | n...
             | 
             | Edit - for those who don't get it, Alberta derives most of
             | its wealth from oil. Successive Liberal governments have
             | both restricted our ability to sell oil while taking
             | significant amounts of money from Alberta in transfer
             | payments. Since Alberta has a border with the US, we have
             | pipelines going south. All the while the Canadian economy
             | has been severely under-performing relative to the US
             | government. The last 2 points naturally push Alberta away
             | from Canada towards the US, without any potential political
             | interference.
        
               | didibus wrote:
               | If you do the math, Alberta would donate even more money
               | if it was a US state. It would owe more federal taxes,
               | and since its population tends younger and well employed,
               | it would get less of it back.
               | 
               | You could say the "benefit" could be that getting
               | approvals for pipelines and higher production of oil
               | might be easier to get in the US. That's really just an
               | "if" though. The Keystone XL pipeline was blocked twice
               | by US government.
               | 
               | What it should have done is adopt Norway's model. It
               | would have half a trillion in savings already if it had,
               | and wouldn't even need oil, as raw investment could
               | finance its budget alone.
               | 
               | But putting all that aside as well. Your average Albertan
               | wouldn't be better off. They'd lose healthcare, education
               | would be more expensive, they'd have a worse retirement
               | fund, and so on. They'd have to pay more tax and get less
               | benefit in return. Plus, there'd be a higher influx of
               | immigrants low balling the jobs and lowering wages.
               | 
               | But it's not too late to change course. If Alberta
               | seriously committed to a Norway style model now, it could
               | still build a fund big enough to make oil dependence
               | temporary. That alone could justify building pipelines to
               | the coast, use it as a bridge until the Heritage Fund
               | becomes a self-sustaining engine of prosperity. It's a
               | convincing argument for the other provinces, and would be
               | great for Canada overall.
        
               | dismalaf wrote:
               | > They'd lose healthcare
               | 
               | You ever needed surgery? Ever tried to use healthcare for
               | anything non trivial or not immediately urgent?
               | 
               | I've lived in BC and Alberta. Things take years in BC,
               | maybe a single year in Alberta, and days to weeks in
               | Europe...
               | 
               | We pay into Canadian healthcare but use EU healthcare
               | (while paying more out of pocket)...
        
             | a4isms wrote:
             | No different than the Russians hunting for American
             | dissidents to prop up. Well, a little different in that the
             | Russians hunted for them in the Senate chamber and golf
             | clubs.
        
           | ck2 wrote:
           | There are less than 60,000 people in Greenland
           | 
           | Not 6 million, only 60K
           | 
           | It's like a small city population spread out much further
           | 
           | Much easier to disappear opposition than try to recruit
           | people pro-oppression
           | 
           | This is not going to end well because it's not about the
           | mineral rights
           | 
           | It's about the northwest passage, which will then be another
           | cold war with Canada
           | 
           | I hope all these countries understand the vast majority of US
           | population is not okay with this
        
             | crikeykangaroo wrote:
             | > I hope all these countries understand the vast majority
             | of US population is not okay with this
             | 
             | Where are the protests against the current regime in the
             | US? I see more support rather than outrage. If the US in
             | its current state was any _other_ third-world shithole, you
             | 'd be invaded by 2003 US.
        
         | danielscrubs wrote:
         | Exactly my thoughts.
         | 
         | I think US ownership (not necessarily of land) is inevitable,
         | but it is going to take a couple of decades of these kind of
         | polarising pieces.
        
           | tokai wrote:
           | Why is that inevitable?
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | Sounds like Danish former colonies aren't the only thing
             | three letter agencies are bumbling around in.
        
           | impossiblefork wrote:
           | >I think US ownership (not necessarily of land)
           | 
           | What would that even mean? Especially the use the word
           | 'ownership'?
           | 
           | I think there's zero chance of US long-term influence on
           | Greenland. They simply have no reason to prefer foreign
           | domination, when they can simply be sovereign. I would place
           | independence + EU membership as more probably than any
           | association with the US, and I think them staying within
           | Denmark is much more likely than them becoming independent.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | > They simply have no reason to prefer foreign domination
             | 
             | The reason is they require subsidy to live there. The
             | economy appears to run at a net deficit. The same reason
             | the Vikings gave up on it.
        
               | impossiblefork wrote:
               | I don't think the subsidy is required. The net deficit is
               | small.
               | 
               | Some Swedish regions also have a net deficit relative to
               | other Swedish regions, but that doesn't mean that they
               | don't work out economically. After all, not all economic
               | activity in region is taxed there. A firm in Ornskoldsvik
               | pays their taxes to the Swedish government, and then the
               | Swedish government distributes part back to the region.
               | 
               | It's around 600 million USD per year, on 56836 people.
               | Around $1000 per head. But GDP per capita is $58,498.
        
               | Paradigm2020 wrote:
               | 10k.
        
               | impossiblefork wrote:
               | Ah, you're right. So an order of magnitude higher.
               | Miscalculated.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | > I don't think the subsidy is required. The net deficit
               | is small.
               | 
               | Continuing to lose money leads to bankruptcy.
        
               | impossiblefork wrote:
               | They would presumably just cut their government budget if
               | it weren't for the subsidy.
               | 
               | It would probably be fine. Furthermore, I don't think
               | Denmark plans on dropping it. They want reasonably strong
               | government services also in this sparsely populated
               | arctic region.
        
             | TMWNN wrote:
             | >They simply have no reason to prefer foreign domination,
             | when they can simply be sovereign.
             | 
             | No, they can't. The likes of Palau are (barely) viable as
             | sovereign countries, because at least the geographic size
             | is as small as their populations.
             | 
             | It is absolutely, positively, completely impossible for 50K
             | Greenlanders to by themselves maintain a the world's
             | largest island, even aside from the completely frozen-over
             | aspect. The $600M annual subsidy by Denmark does not
             | include the funds Copenhagen spends on also running
             | Greenland's foreign relations and defense. But in reality,
             | Denmark spends a relative pittance on those things (like
             | "six dog sleds" pittance); the vast majority of the cost of
             | defending Greenland is borne by the US, as has been the
             | case since 1940. Why should the US shoulder the burden
             | without commensurate political power?
        
           | sorokod wrote:
           | inevitable... because of Manifest Destiny?
           | 
           | Like so (source Wikipedia)
           | 
           | "... there were three basic tenets behind the concept:
           | 
           | The assumption of the unique moral virtue of the United
           | States.
           | 
           | The assertion of its mission to redeem the world by the
           | spread of republican government and more generally the
           | "American way of life".
           | 
           | The faith in the nation's divinely ordained destiny to
           | succeed in this mission." ?
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | I don't think that's any more inevitable than US ownership of
           | Scotland or Finland.
        
           | threemux wrote:
           | I think it even makes sense if it were pursued in a different
           | way. Greenland is looking for full independence but can't
           | really hack it financially without aid. I think the COFA
           | (Compact of Free Association) model that we have with Palau
           | and Marshall Islands would work well.
           | 
           | We get expanded military rights and potentially some
           | mineral/drilling rights, while Greenland gets protection,
           | lots of money, access to USPS domestic rates, and probably
           | increased tourism in addition to the independence they
           | desire. Their citizens could also live and work in the US
           | indefinitely.
        
             | Hzwtdqwz1 wrote:
             | I think the Danish intelligence services should apply this
             | model to Hawaii and Guam. It would make a lot of sense.
             | Hawaii and Guam could get better health care on average
             | while being semi independent. The EU could protect both
             | with nuclear weapons.
             | 
             | Native Hawaiians would escape the continued mistreatment:
             | 
             | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/hawaii-
             | no...
             | 
             | I think Radio Free Denmark should launch a soft power
             | campaign.
        
               | threemux wrote:
               | Lol I realize this is tongue in cheek but Denmark has no
               | ability to administer or protect anything that far away.
               | Nor are those places seeking independence.
               | 
               | But hey, maybe I'm wrong and the Danes will successfully
               | integrate a large group of people that don't share their
               | values. They've already done that, right?
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | > I realize this is tongue in cheek
               | 
               | That's your mistake.
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | > Their citizens could also live and work in the US
             | indefinitely.
             | 
             | Not sure why Greenlanders would care at all.
             | 
             | They can already do the same in Denmark, which is a country
             | with far better standards of living.
        
               | threemux wrote:
               | Oh gimme a break. That's one of the largest benefits to
               | COFA and is heavily used by the Marshallese. Greenland on
               | its own is not a first world country - there simply isn't
               | enough population/work and it's a hard existence as
               | detailed in TFA.
               | 
               | You may not want to come here and that's fine, but it's a
               | huge draw and will continue to be. Administrations are
               | fleeting, but the allure of opportunity remains. You're
               | posting on a forum that is somewhat of a monument to
               | exactly that.
               | 
               | EDIT: some of this made a bit more sense prior to your
               | hasty edit
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Florida on its own is also not a first world country.
               | This goes for many places and it isn't the flex you make
               | it out to be, the fact that Greenland is part of Denmark
               | which in turn in part of the EU and which the USA through
               | NATO is bound by treaty _to defend_ rather than that
               | threaten to invade is a detail that may have escaped your
               | attention but it matters rather a lot to the rest of the
               | 'first world'.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | Denmark is one of the countries with the highest
               | standards of living by any metric possible, consistently
               | ranking among the best countries to live in the world.
               | 
               | The US is not.
               | 
               | Sure, there's allure in going to US if you're from a poor
               | country, or if you have an ambition your country cannot
               | satisfy (some scientists and entrepreneurs will find
               | America only in America, that's true).
               | 
               | Greenlanders are neither of those two categories.
               | 
               | If they don't care moving to Denmark or rest of Europe
               | you can be sure they don't care coming to US either.
        
             | pcrh wrote:
             | Greenland needs protection from whom? The only country
             | threatening it is the US.
        
               | threemux wrote:
               | The Arctic will be the battleground and trade route of
               | the future as it warms. Being associated with the US is
               | preferable to the other options (Russia, China most
               | likely). There won't be an option of the status quo.
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | Greenland, as part of Denmark, is part of and protected
               | by NATO. As its in the Atlantic it benefits fully from
               | that treaty.
               | 
               | It is also protected by Denmark's membership in the EU
               | and the CSDP by virtue of the EU's collective self
               | defense clause (which protects all of all member states
               | territory, not just the parts in europe).
               | 
               | The status quo - apart from the part where the US is
               | threatening to violate its NATO treaty obligations and
               | invade something it is obligated to protect from invasion
               | - is just fine.
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | The primary threat to Greenland is USA and USA is extremely
             | unreliable country. USA can't sell protection. It may
             | extort or invade or commit some kind of atrocity ... but is
             | not capable of selling protection.
             | 
             | You are talking about getting a colony and stealing their
             | resources.
        
           | epolanski wrote:
           | What do you mean inevitable? The people there want nothing to
           | do being somebody's colony.
        
           | pcrh wrote:
           | US ownership would be pointless. The US already has
           | relatively free access to its _ally_ Greenland for military
           | purposes. See for example the US base in Pituffik (formerly
           | Thule). Proposing to annex your allies is a bit rude, to say
           | the least...
           | 
           | If a country other than Denmark was to claim Greenland,
           | either Iceland or Canada would make more sense.
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | As a Canadian I really can't imagine why we would be a
             | better country for Greenland to be part of then Denmark.
             | Unlike Denmark (and the other nordic countries) we don't
             | have any historical connection to it... nor is it part of
             | our landmass, or really anything else other than vaguely
             | near by.
             | 
             | We're also really not interested in annexing random things.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | It's going to get forgotten instantly when Trump leaves
           | office, either democratically or feet first.
        
         | lifestyleguru wrote:
         | Oh god, this CIA meddling in never ends well for anyone. I mean
         | afterwards Americans will make a Hollywood movie claiming that
         | situation was complicated and their intentions were good, but
         | it will end up with some sort of hell.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >fun-fact: CIA is currently mucking around in Greenland trying
         | to get rid of people against annexation
         | 
         | That's a very misleading phrasing for what's essentially an
         | influence operation. Your wording of "get rid of people ..."
         | implies there's some assassinations/violence going on, but
         | there's nothing to suggest that's happening. If
         | Republicans/Democrats or even Russia was running an influence
         | operation in the US, nobody would characterize that as "getting
         | rid" of opponents or whatever.
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | Every "influence operation" of this type by the CIA
           | inevitably involves assassinations and violence. That's what
           | the CIA does.
        
         | sema4hacker wrote:
         | In spite of wanna-be-kings like Putin and Trump, the obvious
         | historical trend is for larger empires and countries to break
         | up into smaller independent ones.
        
       | anotherhue wrote:
       | I note there was no mention of a McDonald's. I for one look
       | forward to the McWhale.
        
         | tiagod wrote:
         | Not even Iceland has McDonald's
        
           | sayrer wrote:
           | They used to! Anyway, Iceland is really easy to travel to.
           | Everyone speaks perfect English, and the coffee is good. I
           | know a little bit of Icelandic because they think I am
           | Icelandic for some reason (I can read the signs at least, so
           | maybe I don't look lost). There's a street with hot dog
           | stands and stuff right in the middle of the capitol, which
           | they seem to like. There are good hamburger places too, but
           | they are expensive.
           | 
           | Greenland is another level.
        
         | ysangkok wrote:
         | Why would you want McDonald's when you have polsevogn?
         | 
         | https://www.facebook.com/p/Kunuks-P%C3%B8lsevogn-61575713986...
        
           | vintermann wrote:
           | This makes sense. Denmark is to pigs what New Zealand is to
           | sheep.
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | It's funny to me that in portraying Indiana as a "blank state"
       | he's highlighting one of the most beautiful parts of the state
       | (the route through the Dunes along the Michigan lakefront; if
       | you've seen "Road To Perdition", you know what that area looks
       | like). It's not important to the article, a complete tangent, but
       | I can't not call that out.
        
         | curl-up wrote:
         | Having been to Greenland recently, I found his description of
         | it similarly flawed.
        
           | joecool1029 wrote:
           | In what way/ways?
        
             | curl-up wrote:
             | > The first thing you notice when you land in Greenland is
             | there are no trees or grass. There is snow and then there
             | is exposed rock.
             | 
             | This is only true of the area around the airport. Even his
             | pictures further into the article show how misleading this
             | description is. I was actually very surprised how little
             | snow/ice there was. Now when I think of Greenland, I think
             | of something similar to [1].
             | 
             | Of course, in the winter, it's a completely different story
             | (I was there in July). But he was there during the warm
             | period as well (as is obvious from his photos).
             | 
             | > The city itself sits in a landscape so dramatically
             | inhospitable it makes the surface of Mars look cozy.
             | 
             | If you look at a map, you will notice that Nuuk is at the
             | same latitude as Reykjavik. There's a common meme about
             | Iceland being green and Greenland being icy, and that's
             | definitely true if you compare inland or northern Greenland
             | with Iceland during summer (during winter, both are icy and
             | dark), but hiking around Nuuk is a very "green" experience.
             | Yes, there's a ton of mosquitoes, but nature itself is very
             | inviting. I did not get any of the "inhospitable" vibes he
             | mentions.
             | 
             | > But again even riding the bus around it is impossible to
             | escape the feeling that this is a fundamentally hostile to
             | human life place. The sun is bright and during the summer
             | its pretty hot, with my skin feeling like it was starting
             | the burn pretty much the second it was exposed to the
             | light. It's hard to even dress for, with layers of
             | sunscreen, bug spray and then something warm on top if you
             | suddenly got cold.
             | 
             | This whole section is just overblown BS.
             | 
             | All in all, I enjoyed it a lot. Compared to Iceland, it's
             | definitely a lot less "user friendly" and you need to
             | prepare better, but I have never been to a place that is
             | less affected by humans, and in our age, that is something
             | worth experiencing.
             | 
             | [1] https://truewindhealingtravel.com/wp-
             | content/uploads/2022/08...
        
               | noelwelsh wrote:
               | >> The first thing you notice when you land in Greenland
               | is there are no trees or grass. There is snow and then
               | there is exposed rock.
               | 
               | > This is only true of the area around the airport. Even
               | his pictures further into the article show how misleading
               | this description is.
               | 
               | At least as far as trees go, Greenland is reasonably
               | famously lacking in trees (if you are the kind of person
               | who cares about such things). All chopped down by the
               | Vikings and only now are a few sections of forest being
               | regrown. Iceland is basically the same.
               | 
               | A few links:
               | 
               | - https://www.globalforestwatch.org/dashboards/country/GR
               | L/. "In 2020, Greenland had 0.00 ha of natural forest"
               | 
               | - https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/comments/14notoe/the
               | _prog...
               | 
               | - https://greenlandtrees.org/
        
               | curl-up wrote:
               | Agreed, I failed to mention this detail, thank you for
               | adding. But hopefully you agree that his description
               | paints a completely ridiculous picture.
        
           | ARandomerDude wrote:
           | I've never been to Greenland or (to my knowledge) met anyone
           | who has. What is/was your experience like?
        
             | curl-up wrote:
             | I tried explaining in the other comment here. In summary,
             | it's beautiful, raw nature, that's different from anything
             | else I've seen. It takes some preparation, but I haven't
             | experience any of these "sun will kill you and ice will
             | kill you too" vibes that the article suggests. It felt like
             | one of the last places on Earth not affected by humans (at
             | least directly through resource exploitation, as it
             | definitely is affected by the warming - but that's another
             | discussion).
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | Unfortunately the dunes and lake are not visible from that
         | stretch of I-94.
         | 
         | Southern Indiana is another beautiful part of the state. It's
         | mostly rolling hills with lush green forests and farms.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | You don't have to drive it on I-94; in fact, for many years
           | it was faster not to, because of insane bottom of the lake
           | traffic. You can take the Dunes Highway instead (and then
           | keep off 94 up the Michigan shore; there's good stuff up
           | there).
        
             | bradgessler wrote:
             | I need to do that next time I'm driving between Chicago and
             | Michigan. I haven't seen the dunes there yet and I bet it's
             | incredible.
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | I'm speaking up for Indiana here but honestly if you're
               | looking for those dunescapes and beaches, western
               | Michigan is the better bet. Road To Perdition was filmed
               | around Saugatuck, just an hour into Michigan; that part
               | of Michigan really is worth a trip to see (you'd want
               | book a place to stay up by the lake for at least a couple
               | days; it's not so much a sightseeing deal as a chill-out-
               | by-the-lake deal).
               | 
               | The whole stretch though from Chicago up to Traverse City
               | is basically where Chicago vacations.
        
               | bradgessler wrote:
               | I have done that! Reminded me of some dunes I scaled in
               | Jordan.
        
         | internet2000 wrote:
         | Yeah I didn't open this link to see Indiana catching stray
         | bullets. Does a disservice to this article.
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | I prefer to see that part as an up-front, honest disclosure
           | of his biases and negativity.
        
           | schmookeeg wrote:
           | The charms of Indiana have been consistently lost on me over
           | the years; it enhanced the article for me, and I read nearly
           | his entire blog after his Greenland rantlet. I learned a few
           | things.
           | 
           | Different strokes I suppose :)
        
         | Arainach wrote:
         | Then again, that stretch also has Gary.
         | 
         | Having grown up in that area of the Midwest, I largely agree
         | with the author's categorization, except that "people on their
         | way to somewhere better who got tired and decided this was good
         | enough" describes a LOT of the midwest, not just Indiana.
         | Significant chunks of Michigan, Ohio, and Missouri, most of
         | Iowa/Kansas/Nebraska, etc.
         | 
         | If you read the history of westward expansion, "got tired and
         | decided this was good enough" is literally true for how much of
         | the area got initially settled (by white people)
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | I took a moment to realize there's a place called Gary,
           | Indiana. And that there isn't just some guy who is so
           | infamous that he's just known as Gary.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | Clearly not a fan of musical theater. The Music Man ~~takes
             | place in~~ repeatedly refers to Gary. Ron Howard sings a
             | song called Gary Indiana in the movie version. He's about
             | waist high in that movie.
        
               | evgen wrote:
               | Pretty close, but the musical takes place in the
               | fictional town of River City, Iowa and Henry Hill claims
               | to be an alumnus of the Gary Conservatory (class of '05),
               | which is the hook used to launch the song in question.
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | D'oh. You are correct.
        
             | Rendello wrote:
             | The town's even referenced in Futurama:
             | 
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qUW1pabZpLE
        
             | kens wrote:
             | Gary, Indiana is still memorable to me 50 years later from
             | when we'd drive through it, handkerchiefs pressed to our
             | faces to block out the terrible smell from some sort of
             | toxic industry. Is Gary still like that or has it been
             | cleaned up?
        
               | bookofjoe wrote:
               | Reminds me of driving through Eureka, California in the
               | early 80s and the overpoweringly horrible smell from the
               | paper mills in the area.
        
             | jb1991 wrote:
             | It's actually a very famous city, but not for entirely good
             | reasons. For starters, it did in my youth have the highest
             | per capita rate of murder in the United States.
             | 
             | However, Michael Jackson is from there. So there's that.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > it did in my youth have the highest per capita rate of
               | murder in the United States.
               | 
               | > However, Michael Jackson is from there.
               | 
               | There are no coincidences.
        
             | phlakaton wrote:
             | It is known for not being Louisiana, Paris, France, New
             | York, or Rome.
        
             | cipheredStones wrote:
             | Every guy named Gary is named after Gary, Indiana. Gary
             | Cooper named himself after the town, and then got very,
             | very popular.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Illinois has a few rust belt towns as well. Decatur is the
           | asshole of Illinois, with a water supply to match. Though for
           | variety, it smells like old gym socks instead. Corn
           | processing plants are almost as bad as paper mills, and when
           | I lived there it had two, ADM and the very aptly named
           | Staley.
        
             | W-Stool wrote:
             | East St. Louis, Illinois would like to have a chat with
             | Decatur about which is worst.
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | The thing about the middle of Illinois is they consider
               | Chicago to be a separate state and East St Louis to be
               | Missouri's problem. "Oh you're from Chicago" is a common
               | reply any time you found out you're from an exurb. Often
               | said with just a hint of dismissal. That's not the _real_
               | Illinois. Nobody talks about Rock Island and Moline (the
               | Illinois half of the Quad Cities) this way, for instance.
               | 
               | Carbondale is slightly better, but I think it's a
               | notorious party school for very good reasons. Small town
               | Midwest has a saying that "there's nothing to do here
               | except drink, fuck, and knock over mailboxes". Most Iowa
               | this is especially true, but Carbondale also gave me that
               | vibe. Also that's a fucking long drive. St Louis too.
               | Nobody appreciates that Illinois is half as tall as
               | California (not that anyone appreciates how long a trip
               | up and down CA is either).
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | Indiana is seriously considering annexing much of
               | central/southern Illinois. It's amazing just how
               | aggressively divisive politics have become in the last 20
               | years.
        
               | jb1991 wrote:
               | Newark New Jersey just walked into the room. "The armpit
               | of America".
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. This is
               | a happy occasion!
        
           | klardotsh wrote:
           | Yep. Even worse, the problem is recursive: a town I lived in
           | for a while growing up, Vandalia, Ohio (a suburb of Dayton,
           | itself not exactly a booming metropolis in this millennium,
           | but I digress) was settled by westward migrants aiming for
           | Vandalia, Illinois - a town in the absolute middle of nowhere
           | that just so happened to be the end of the National Road,
           | presumably because the road builders got bored and/or ran out
           | of money. Anyway, the travelers got bored and/or ran out of
           | money on their way to Illinois, gave up, said "good enough",
           | and named their new Ohio settlement after the place they
           | failed to reach.
           | 
           | The Midwest is many things, but for quite a lot of it, "where
           | anyone really wanted to get stuck" is not one of them.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | Gary is basically part of the Chicago metro area; it's not
           | characteristic of the run of the state you go through between
           | Michigan and Illinois. You don't see it until after you
           | commit to getting onto the Skyway.
        
           | kyledrake wrote:
           | It's really easy to write off a giant part of the country
           | that millions of people live in as tired (and the implication
           | underneath is usually "backward"), it's also dehumanizing
           | them and makes assumptions about their quality of life when
           | it might actually be a lot better than the people making
           | these assumptions.
           | 
           | Spend some time not just driving through them, and one may be
           | surprised to find plenty of diverse and interesting people
           | that live full lives with rich family and social bonds,
           | reasonably priced housing, ample winter outdoor activities (a
           | lot of people actually want snow because it's beautiful and
           | you can do fun things with it) and plenty of nearby nature
           | and recreation opportunities, which I would contrast less
           | unfavorably than the zeitgeist against the crowded, expensive
           | vagrant culture that tends to dominate the more popular
           | places on earth.
        
             | jb1991 wrote:
             | The phrase "got tired "is not referring to the modern
             | populations but rather the people who founded those
             | original settlements in those states centuries ago.
        
               | kyledrake wrote:
               | They didn't "get tired", they found rich soil and ample
               | water to do farming and milling, which is what they were
               | intending to find. It's called the bread basket of
               | America for a reason.
        
               | hollerith wrote:
               | Agree: a farmer coming to Indiana having previous farmed
               | in New England or New York would have thought he'd died
               | and went to farmer heaven.
        
               | jb1991 wrote:
               | In some places, some people absolutely could not endure
               | the long travels to the West Coast, for example the
               | Oregon Trail was extremely difficult and many people quit
               | somewhere in the middle and settled into those Midwestern
               | states. Yes they did in fact get tired, in some
               | situations.
        
             | Arainach wrote:
             | I lived in the area for more than 20 years, have annually
             | visited family living there for my entire life even after I
             | left, and consider myself quite qualified to comment on the
             | area, the people who live there, and their culture, thanks.
             | 
             | I've traveled a lot through the area. I was throughout Ohio
             | earlier this year, spent two weeks in Illinois last year,
             | etc.
        
           | 1123581321 wrote:
           | Gary is also interesting, though. It used to be interesting
           | for good economic and cultural reasons, then bad reasons. Now
           | it's experiencing some revitalization in the manner of
           | Detroit or Rockford, which might actually make it more
           | boring, though better to live in.
           | 
           | I thought the Indiana aside was odd as an objective
           | assessment, but it worked well as a flavorful bit of travel
           | writing to help me understand the perspective of the visitor
           | to Greenland.
        
             | mothballed wrote:
             | Gary is fine during the day compared to a lot of the
             | surrounding areas because the population is actually fairly
             | diverse. White, black, latino, there are enough of you that
             | it's possible to blend in as long as you dress poor enough.
             | If you aren't into drugs or banging and out during daylight
             | hours and don't flash valuable you'll probably be fine.
             | 
             | Vs. say some parts Cleveland, where I've been robbed at
             | gunpoint the second my vehicle broke down and people
             | noticed I'm not from around there.
        
               | dr_dshiv wrote:
               | Cleveland rocks!
        
           | sandworm101 wrote:
           | Good enough, but also the abject fear of seeing the rocky
           | mountains rear up from the plains. For someone walking beside
           | a wagon in late summer, a horizon of tree and snow-covered
           | mountains topped with jagged peaks would seem like the end of
           | the earth.
        
           | uwagar wrote:
           | and gary was where michael jackson was born.
        
         | tedggh wrote:
         | The Indiana Dunes is indeed one of the most beautiful
         | unexpected places I have encountered traveling in the US. And
         | Wagner's have to be the absolute best ribs in the world.
        
         | kubectl_h wrote:
         | This is good to know, I have passed through Indiana a number of
         | times on I-70 and I've found it to be particularly flat and
         | boring. I know there are pretty places everywhere but that
         | stretch has felt like exactly what he was saying, a place you
         | have to get through to go somewhere else.
        
           | jccalhoun wrote:
           | Whenever I see people say Indiana is flat and boring I know
           | they haven't been south of I-70.
        
             | adzm wrote:
             | The glaciers bunched everything up like a rug and melted
             | just south of 70
        
         | ccleve wrote:
         | Irked me too. I'm running for state representative in House
         | District 9, which covers much of that area. The district is
         | drop dead gorgeous and it's growing rapidly. There's a lot
         | here.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | Whoah, neat, congratulations or whatever you say to that.
           | Good luck! Were you already involved in local politics in the
           | area?
        
             | ccleve wrote:
             | yes, quite a bit
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | _> whatever you say to that_
             | 
             | Illegitimis non carborundum?
        
               | ccleve wrote:
               | Thanks. That's exactly the right thing to say.
        
           | forgotoldacc wrote:
           | Pretty much everyone on earth is proud of their home area.
           | I've never really been to a place where people didn't
           | describe their home as one of the most beautiful places on
           | earth.
           | 
           | Earth has a lot of nice places. The flatness of Indiana can
           | be calming and beautiful. But if you're driving on main
           | roads, it's not very exciting, and it's not the kind of
           | exciting people will fly across the world to see. And that
           | was the point in the article.
        
             | thevillagechief wrote:
             | I love my home town. I grew up there, and it was fine. I
             | would never describe it as one of the most beautiful places
             | on earth. I'm I proud of it? Only in the sense it's home
             | and I have family there.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | People do fly out to vacation in the part of Indiana he
             | highlighted!
             | 
             | I'm not saying Indiana on the whole isn't flat. When I was
             | growing up, their ad campaign was literally "there's more
             | than corn in Indiana". I'm just saying, he couldn't have
             | picked a worse map location to make the point with.
        
             | ccleve wrote:
             | This area has a lot of hills.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | Many areas have some minor hills, or some variant
               | infinitely more interesting (hoosier myself, I regret
               | moving here 10 years ago and may finally be bothered
               | enough by it to deal with moving out in Spring). All in
               | all, a state this big with less than 1,000 ft between the
               | highest and lowest parts is just disappointingly flat,
               | given the general lack of other natural attraction.
               | 
               | I'd say the caves in that region of the state are
               | interesting, but options like Mammoth Cave are not that
               | far away in KY (and they have better hills too).
        
             | spauldo wrote:
             | Try going to west Oklahoma sometime. Not even the people
             | who've never traveled think it's the most beautiful place
             | on Earth.
        
         | losvedir wrote:
         | Heh, as someone who lives there (Northwest Indiana) that was a
         | rough read.
         | 
         | Then again, our state motto did used to be "Crossroads of
         | America", so I guess that's kind of fair. These days it's the
         | more aspirational "More to Discover".
        
           | AaronAPU wrote:
           | I live somewhere that you'll find almost nothing but insults
           | about online. Meanwhile it remains a great place to live
           | _because_ those people don't come here. Consider it a
           | blessing.
        
             | dgfitz wrote:
             | Cleveland?
        
         | jb1991 wrote:
         | And the southern part of the state is actually one of the most
         | famous places in the United States for painters to retreat in
         | the autumn as there are no trees as beautiful as you will find
         | there.
         | 
         | Calling some states good states and others not is just a silly
         | thing to do anyway.
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | I bugged me too. I'm from Southern Indiana and when I hear
         | people say "Indiana is flat" or "Indiana is boring to look at"
         | all I hear them say is "I've only been to the Northern part of
         | Indiana."
         | 
         | There is a lot to shit on Indiana for but its natural beauty
         | isn't one of them.
        
           | mothballed wrote:
           | It's likely people from west of the Mississippi.
           | 
           | Indiana and other midwestern states have some awesome nature,
           | but it's basically taken for granted by people from there
           | because you grow up having your family show you all those
           | places. Imagine if aliens showed up to a megacity, and
           | declared there was no food anywhere -- a local would show
           | them places called "restaurants" that actually have more
           | varied and competitive tasty foods than about any farmland
           | areas you'd find, but the aliens would think there's food
           | only in the farmlands and declare the city worthless for
           | finding something to eat.
           | 
           | If you drive out west, you don't even have to look for them;
           | astounding nature is evereywhere.
           | 
           | End result is people from midwestern states appreciate the
           | beauty of their state, but people who haven't lived there for
           | years generally don't. Even after leaving the midwest, I have
           | a high appreciation for the natural landscape, but that's
           | only because I know where to go when I get there.
        
         | kasey_junk wrote:
         | It's also problematic because that part of Indiana was geo
         | engineered into a blank slate. It used to be a wetlands that
         | rivaled the Everglades but was drained and filled in a massive
         | (and controversial) public works effort.
        
         | osigurdson wrote:
         | I've never been to Indiana but I don't like when people say
         | things like this about other places. Yeah, these people are
         | "too tired" to go anywhere else - right. I hope the author
         | enjoyed channeling Hemingway for a bit but seriously what does
         | he know about why people live there?
        
       | sleddoggs wrote:
       | Nice try, Matt. I think everyone knows you just want Greenland
       | all to yourself.
        
       | pixelpoet wrote:
       | Poor doggywogs :(
       | 
       | Edit: Wow, HN didn't like that. Nevermind, screw the dogs I
       | guess, just toss the frozen ones over the cliff.
        
         | mkl wrote:
         | You may want to reconsider your choice of word:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog
        
           | pixelpoet wrote:
           | It's a common word in (UK, apparently) English, cf.
           | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/doggy_woggy
           | 
           | I've literally never once heard someone use the ethnic slur
           | "wog", and I grew up in 90s South Africa :)
        
       | ryangibb wrote:
       | > The second I stepped outside I was set upon by a flood of
       | mosquitos like I have never experienced before. I have been to
       | the jungles of Vietnam, the swamps of Florida and the Canadian
       | countryside. This was beyond anything I've ever experienced.
       | 
       | > There are bugs in my mouth, ears, eyes and nose almost
       | immediately. The photo below is not me being dramatic, it is
       | actually what is required to keep them off of me.
       | 
       | > In fact what you need to purchase in order to walk around this
       | area at all are basically bug nets for your face. They're
       | effectively plastic mesh bags that you put on.
       | 
       | This is pretty standard for Scotland in the summer too.
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | The midges are horrific. It's amazing how something so tiny can
         | make your life so miserable. I don't know how people in the
         | olden days survived. I wonder what kind of social and political
         | effects the midges had. I can imagine Scots with all their
         | gifts of the mind and body fleeing and surrendering to the
         | English just to get away from them.
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | > I don't know how people in the olden days survived.
           | 
           | Maybe they found a material they could smear on their body.
           | 
           | For a similar example, I have a friend who spends a lot of
           | time hiking and camping. He tells me that the first day, he
           | needs to apply sunscreen. The next day onward, he doesn't
           | need to anymore, as his body oil and sweat seems to do the
           | job.
           | 
           | It makes sense that our skin has not evolved to be cleaned
           | every day.
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | People simply got used to it, for the most part. It takes
             | me a few weeks to readjust to the insects whenever I go
             | back to the Arctic, after which they're just dramatically
             | less annoying.
             | 
             | Keep in mind that the swarms you see today are usually a
             | historical anomaly exacerbated by changing conditions in
             | the Arctic. Longer, warmer summers create more spaces for
             | them to breed, and sudden, bitter cold spells in winter
             | affect the predators controlling their population more than
             | the insects themselves. The palearctic region is a very
             | different place than it was centuries ago.
        
             | majormajor wrote:
             | Most people don't have nearly that good luck.
             | 
             | I'm fortunate that they just don't like me as much as some
             | of the people I've done week+ hiking/camping trips with. I
             | was ok with deet. Some folks still got dozens of bites even
             | after it.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | I think you overlooked the mention of sunscreen.
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | No? We all wore that too... but unless we're all just
               | weirdos and sunscreen == bug repellant for the whole rest
               | of the world in a way it never has for us (and is not
               | advertised as), it just seemed irrelevant.
               | 
               | The sunscreen kept us from being bright red and in pain
               | for the last 6 days of the trip. The mosquitos gave zero
               | fucks about it.
               | 
               | I would bet that the lucky person whose "body oil and
               | sweat seems to do the job" isn't the representative
               | person here...
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | In Scotland they would have smeared bog myrtle over
             | themselves. Other alternatives were animal fat mixed with
             | an aromatic or even tar and pine resin. As far as I know
             | most cultures had some sort of equivalent.
             | 
             | The best contemporaneous example would be the _otjize_ clay
             | rub used by the Himba in Namibia. It's largely an
             | adaptation to water scarcity but it also protects them from
             | insects and cleans their hair and skin by trapping dirt and
             | flaking off.
        
         | internet_points wrote:
         | That first google map has "Myggedalen" (Mosquito Valley) listed
         | as a Panoramic View. At least they're honest :-)
        
           | pcrh wrote:
           | Myggedalen looks like "midge dale".
        
             | vintermann wrote:
             | Etymologically I'm pretty sure it is.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | > "I am being eaten alive!" cried Pippin. "Midgewater!
             | There are more midges than water!"
             | 
             | > "What do they live on when they can't get hobbit?" asked
             | Sam, scratching his neck.
        
             | LAC-Tech wrote:
             | I'm a native English speaker and I feel like dale and
             | valley are two different words for the same thing.
        
         | sema4hacker wrote:
         | In the 70's we visited relatives in northern Minnesota and took
         | a .22 rifle to a dump, I think to shoot rats. So many mosquitos
         | would immediately land on us and the rifle that you couldn't
         | see the sight on the end of the barrel. We got out of there
         | quick.
        
       | bikelang wrote:
       | Having grown up in northern Indiana and having spent my honeymoon
       | ski touring in Greenland - I must say I don't find the two to be
       | very comparable. The skiing was significantly better in Greenland
       | and the people much friendlier to boot.
        
       | marssaxman wrote:
       | Charming, and well written! I'd love to go backpacking there some
       | day - perhaps the Arctic Circle Trail.
        
       | Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
       | Beautiful, but definitely not worth invading or sending our
       | troops to take over, if you don't awfully mind Mr. President.
        
         | dsign wrote:
         | Well, US has the base near Guantanamo; I haven't been to that
         | side but I have been to Guantanamo proper... trust me, that
         | place is hot and has mosquitoes and two decades ago the naval
         | base was almost as infamous as North Korea. And then there's
         | the newly opened "alligator Alcatraz"... I think Mr. President
         | have gotten some ideas for Greenland :-)
         | 
         | /s
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | Somebody is likely to take it at some point, for strategic
         | military and resource purposes.
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | Denmark took it centuries ago, and that's how it should stay
           | unless or until the Greenlandic people decide otherwise.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | The regular incidence of war going on on our globe suggests
             | that's not sustainable. Why do you think countries spend so
             | much money on their militaries? Me, I'd love it if we could
             | zero out the US defense budget. Unfortunately, that would
             | be a disaster for us.
        
           | spacechild1 wrote:
           | What kind of argument is that!?
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | Who controls what territory in the world is hardly stable.
             | At some point, if one is not a military power, one will
             | have to take sides. If, for example, valuable resources are
             | discovered in Greenland.
        
               | spacechild1 wrote:
               | What are you talking about? Greenland is already a NATO
               | member (via Denmark), so it has already taken a side. The
               | obvious scandal, of course, is that Greenland is being
               | openly threatened by the US - a fellow NATO member!
        
             | gessha wrote:
             | The Henry Kissinger argument.
        
       | tokai wrote:
       | <<This would end up being a theme, where buildings representing
       | Denmark were made out of lots of wood, almost to ensure that you
       | understood they weren't from here.>>
       | 
       | Wooden buildings is much more of a Swedish or Norwegian thing
       | than Danish. Wood is just a good material for building in the
       | arctic.
        
         | SilverElfin wrote:
         | Why is it a good material? I would think steel or reinforced
         | concrete would be better, with cheap corrugated metal paneling.
         | And either way you need reinforced concrete foundations right?
        
           | benrutter wrote:
           | Certainly for Sweden and Norway, wood is very plentiful, and
           | a good insulator. I don't know if steel would technically be
           | better, but historically at least it would have been harder
           | to get hold of.
        
           | coryrc wrote:
           | Wood is a much better insulator than those two materials. At
           | cold temps even the fasteners holding on cladding over foam
           | sheets is a significant source of lost heat, so if screwed
           | into wood instead of steel framing, you conduct much less
           | heat.
        
             | SilverElfin wrote:
             | Can't you put some insulation on fasteners? Or just hold
             | insulation on from the inside without piercing the outside
             | wall?
        
         | Metacelsus wrote:
         | hence, "Norwegian wood"?
        
       | b3lm0nt wrote:
       | Enjoyed this. Reminds me of the great Idle Words (Maciej
       | Ceglowski's blog) travel posts.
       | 
       | Shuffleboard At McMurdo:
       | https://idlewords.com/2016/05/shuffleboard_at_mcmurdo.htm
        
         | internet_points wrote:
         | came to say the same thing :-) I love those posts; this one was
         | right up there with Maciej's
        
         | wood_spirit wrote:
         | There is a YouTuber making a really remote cabin in I think
         | northern Canada called Off Grid Engineering and he has a
         | similar narrative style. Nice :). Recommended
        
       | calmworm wrote:
       | We doing travel blogs here now?
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | Greenland may be a good place to put data centers on
        
           | calmworm wrote:
           | I must have missed that bit in the post.
        
             | trollbridge wrote:
             | Lots of hydroelectric power (when they need more
             | electricity in Greenland, they just put up another dam) and
             | lots of access to cooling for data centres.
        
         | tiagod wrote:
         | Far from being the first time I see it. I don't see why we
         | shouldn't.
        
         | magneticnorth wrote:
         | The submission guidelines summed up in a sentence is "anything
         | that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
         | 
         | Travel blogs for remote places definitely do gratify my
         | intellectual curiosity.
        
         | beeforpork wrote:
         | Always have. Because it's interesting stuff.
        
       | planet36 wrote:
       | "The fact is, that among his hunters at least, the whale would by
       | all hands be considered a noble dish, were there not so much of
       | him; but when you come to sit down before a meat-pie nearly one
       | hundred feet long, it takes away your appetite."
       | 
       | Moby-Dick
       | 
       | Herman Melville
        
         | iagooar wrote:
         | I've had whale when I went to Norway.
         | 
         | Was it good? It was OK. Would I have it again? Probably not.
         | 
         | Still a nice experience. Also trying cured reindeer, moose and
         | seal slices was pretty unique.
        
           | repple wrote:
           | Whale meat is so iron rich. Basically eating liver.
           | 
           | Now reindeer steak -- that's excellent!
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | I recall having whale on a regular basis when I was college
           | in Japan in 1968-69. I liked it, though its grey appearance
           | wasn't appealing. I was always struck by how much it
           | resembled meat in both texture and taste.
        
             | laxd wrote:
             | # I was always struck by how much it resembled meat in both
             | texture and taste.
             | 
             | Say what? How can a mollusc taste like meat?
        
             | Blackthorn wrote:
             | It literally is meat. It's a mammal!
        
       | Simulacra wrote:
       | I'm not sure what this person expected, they seem to have gone in
       | this with Rose tinted glasses only to come away with it feeling
       | like "Greenland, why?" It's like they set out to prove a point
       | and were disappointed.
        
       | ulrischa wrote:
       | Is this a US propaganda article to make greenland join the USA?
        
       | iagooar wrote:
       | I have been to northern Norway and Iceland a few times.
       | 
       | It all started when I was running my previous SaaS at the peak of
       | its growth. I needed a break, and wanted to go far away, while
       | still being close enough if sh*t hit the fan. My co-founder had
       | recently talked to some friends who had been to Tromso, Norway.
       | The place looked perfect, so I booked a 5-day solo trip there.
       | 
       | Places that are so distant, with such harsh conditions and few
       | people living there always give me a feeling I do not experience
       | anywhere else in the world. I feel small, irrelevant, in the face
       | of brutal, powerful nature.
       | 
       | And believe me, it is a feeling that is overwhelming. But never
       | have I perceived it as something negative. The opposite was true.
       | Feeling small made me feel calm, embracing that that was the
       | right spot for me as part of God's creation. Suddenly, all those
       | dark clouds that followed me everywhere I went back home were...
       | Gone.
       | 
       | If you ever have the opportunity to go to one of these places -
       | go. It might change you in profound ways.
        
         | bruce511 wrote:
         | Thanks for this. I'm going to Nesseby Norway next summer for 3
         | days over the solstice.
         | 
         | There doesn't look like much to do there, which I guess is
         | kinda the point. I'm looking forward to it.
        
         | marcosscriven wrote:
         | I had a similar feeling in the Faroe Islands. Even in mid
         | summer the weather was rather inclement.
         | 
         | But the landscape was breathtaking, and the locals friendly in
         | a low key way.
         | 
         | I'd love to go back.
        
           | Sammi wrote:
           | More wind means less mosquitos. One step forward and one step
           | back.
           | 
           | Also don't fly with sas to the faroes. They turn back and try
           | again the next day like in the article. Fly atlantic airways,
           | they have equipment to fly through the fog or they will
           | refuel in iceland and try again same day.
        
             | neucoas wrote:
             | What do you mean with "they have equipment".
        
               | mkl wrote:
               | Probably
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system.
        
               | Sammi wrote:
               | Yes.
        
               | Nux wrote:
               | Cojones ;-)
        
             | bookofjoe wrote:
             | >Also don't fly with sas to the faroes. They turn back and
             | try again the next day like in the article.
             | 
             | To me this is a good reason to fly SAS.
        
               | Sammi wrote:
               | If you want to enjoy a day in an airport hotel and be
               | late for what you are travelling for then sure. Sas plane
               | is full of tourists who don't know. Locals all use
               | atlantic airways cause they know they actually land.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | And when you want to experiance true issolation in the face of
         | nature, Alaska and Westerm Canada are waiting. Try a drive
         | north through BC in winter. Fish on an Alaskan river only
         | accessible by floatplane. Wake up to watch the northern lights
         | only to realize you are looking south. Or pan for gold only to
         | look up and see a grizzly cub walking cassually past.
         | 
         | Norway: 15 people per sq km.
         | 
         | Alberta: 6.7
         | 
         | British columbia: 5.5
         | 
         | Alaska: 0.5
         | 
         | Yukon territory: 0.1
         | 
         | Northwest Territories: 0.03
        
           | iagooar wrote:
           | Finnmark in Northern Norway is more like 1.5-2, Troms is 3-6.
           | But I agree, Alaska and Western Canada are places to go some
           | day.
           | 
           | Funnily, as a student I had this offer to go to work as a
           | waiter on Alaska. For different reasons that didn't
           | materialize, but definitely this makes me want to go see it
           | even more.
           | 
           | Not so much for the possible bear encounters. I do not think
           | I am ready yet for that.
        
           | dbetteridge wrote:
           | Another option is
           | 
           | Western Australia: 0.2 if you get outside the capital city.
           | 
           | You'll see stars you didn't know existed and the distances
           | are something else.
           | 
           | Northwest territories is beautiful though.
        
             | VagabundoP wrote:
             | I stayed out past Margaret River in Western Oz and "OMG its
             | full of stars" when I went to the outside toilet during the
             | middle of the night and looked up.
             | 
             | I felt like I could get sucked up and lost in galaxies. You
             | could see so many.
        
             | bookofjoe wrote:
             | Altitude is also an excellent force multiplier for
             | visualizing stars. I can still see in my mind's eye the sky
             | at night at 17,000 feet while trekking in Nepal in 1982: it
             | looked like glitter-studded fabric, the stars almost
             | contiguous.
        
           | liquid_thyme wrote:
           | Driving through is fine, but realistically, if you need basic
           | amenities (healthcare, groceries, etc), you will be living in
           | or around a population center, so those numbers won't hold
           | up.
        
         | QuantumNomad_ wrote:
         | > Feeling small made me feel calm
         | 
         | Completely agree. I've been on many hikes and in particular
         | there was one time where I was walking up a mountain, at
         | winter, with skis on, that I felt like wow if everyone got to
         | experience this particular feeling of just you and the
         | mountains and not a single soul around, there would be less
         | conflict in the world. If we all got to go on these long
         | solitary trips in the mountains alone. All kinds of grievances
         | and conflicts and whatever you might feel about people that you
         | dislike, it all suddenly feels so insignificant and pointless
         | to even expend any energy on.
        
         | grilledchickenw wrote:
         | You just described wonderfully why I'm drawn to remote places.
         | It started with a trip to the interior of Iceland, then Tromso,
         | and more recently Svalbard and the Faroes.
         | 
         | I tried to capture the beautiful sense of isolation in Svalbard
         | here, maybe it inspires others to make a trip to somewhere
         | remote.
         | https://photoblog.nk412.com/Svalbard2024/n-ssC8fP/Svalminiph...
        
       | sangeeth96 wrote:
       | I'm not a fan of bugs but it's only when I consume these
       | travelogues I'm reminded that I should be grateful things are
       | nowhere as apocalyptic over where I live in south India.
        
       | epolanski wrote:
       | > Even professional travel personalities seemed to be scraping
       | the bottom of the barrel. "There's the grocery store again!"
       | 
       | Hah, that's exactly the feeling I got when my favorite travel
       | YouTuber went there.
       | 
       | Other than what in this post you also had boat excursions which
       | were nice.
        
       | JohnLocke4 wrote:
       | I happen to be one of the Danes who partially grew up in
       | Greenland that he talks about in the article. I even recognize
       | the places from the article.
       | 
       | Some of my cordial childhood memories are from there and it is a
       | place I will forever love. One of the most visceral memories I
       | have is looking across the ice fjord listening to the thunderous
       | breaking of the ice bergs - you can hear the sounds on videos,
       | but combined with the enormity of what is in front of you and
       | actually being able to feel the sound in your body it can only be
       | experienced by being there.
       | 
       | I can see that the author was initially worried that Greenland
       | would be devoid of anything to do, which is of course not true,
       | as is written in the article. Especially the people are one of a
       | kind in what I can only describe as directness or pragmatism.
       | 
       | One time a local from the place I lived was driving his car as it
       | broke down and - rather than having it regularly towed to the
       | mechanic - actually decided to tow it with a group of sled dogs.
       | We just watched him sticking his head out the window shouting
       | commands to the dogs while driving by. The dogs there can
       | distinguish left and right, so it was surprisingly trivial to get
       | the car to the mechanic. The Greenlanders see _nothing_
       | extraordinary about this.
       | 
       | In other words, it is really valuable to have local connections
       | if you want a great vacation in Greenland. I can also recommend
       | the small, mini village settlements that are spread across the
       | coast of the grand county. Some of them have hotels also.
       | 
       | I became nostalgic so I wrote a little blog post with some
       | pictures for you people: https://lucasblog.dk/post/Greenland
        
         | vintagedave wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. Can you tell us where the "if you know
         | where this is" photo is, please?
         | 
         | And how would you make local connections before visiting?
        
           | JohnLocke4 wrote:
           | I feel like telling you where the picture is taken would
           | spoil a potentially fun experience, so I will not disclose
           | that :)
           | 
           | Anyway, making connections is hard, though not impossible. I
           | would recommend the local pubs (which are surprisingly busy
           | given how small settlements are) and finding friends through
           | e.g. work settings.
        
         | mkl wrote:
         | Thanks! A typo: "Wood is by far a ubiquitous material" - "Wood
         | is far from a ubiquitous material".
        
           | JohnLocke4 wrote:
           | Fixed!
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | Can you explain the cars described in the article?
        
       | paulcole wrote:
       | > There is nothing distinct about Indiana, it's just a place full
       | of people who got too tired on their way to somewhere better and
       | decided "this is good enough".
       | 
       | This is how Norte Dame was (allegedly) founded. Priests set out
       | from the East Coast, planning to found the greatest Catholic
       | University in the world in California. They get to Indiana and
       | encounter a terrible snowstorm. They hunker down and decide
       | they'll get moving again when the weather improved. It never did.
        
       | goodmattg wrote:
       | Perfect weekend read - kudos on a nice piece of writing
        
       | nullbyte808 wrote:
       | Funniest shit I've read in awhile on here!
        
       | jeffnappi wrote:
       | This video about Camp Century in Greenland is fascinating:
       | https://youtu.be/OndXawgRAeo
        
       | cozzyd wrote:
       | I've spent quite a bit of time in kangerlussuaq while on route or
       | on my way back from summit station. Would love to explore more of
       | the country, but even just kangerlussuaq is quite beautiful. I've
       | seen pictures from the east Coast from some pilots based out of
       | Akureyri who were assisting some geologists at Summit one year
       | and it looks absolutely gorgeous.
       | 
       | Greenlandic hot dogs are delicious too, similar to Iceland.
        
       | worik wrote:
       | What a wasted trip!
       | 
       | How rude, especially about Indiana.
       | 
       | They never found out where the people were going in their BMWs
       | 
       | The only descriptions of the locals were entirely without
       | sympathy.
       | 
       | If this is how Icelanders [edit: Greenlanders, duh!]are treated
       | by Danes, I suggest selling out to Trump!
        
         | mkl wrote:
         | The author is American, and no Icelanders were mentioned.
        
           | worik wrote:
           | > The author is American
           | 
           | I assume you mean USAian. Fits my prejudices, which is
           | unfortunate
           | 
           | An arrogant prick, anyway
        
       | tick_tock_tick wrote:
       | Damn dude did Indiana steal your car or something? That's a lot
       | of hate.
        
       | mckn1ght wrote:
       | > So if you've ever wonder "what is a glacier", let me tell you.
       | Greenland has a lot of ice and it pushes out from the land that
       | is covers into the sea. When that happens, a lot of it breaks
       | off.
       | 
       | This is quite inaccurate and incomplete and the cynicism that
       | follows and pervades the article is offputting.
       | 
       | Let _me_ tell you that glaciers are quite fascinating and come in
       | a variety of constructions and have all sorts of interesting and
       | beautiful features like caves and moulins.
       | 
       | Watching one calve off something the size of a 5 story building
       | into the sea just a couple hundred yards from my camp was a
       | thrilling experience, the last time I went backcountry kayaking.
       | And listening to another rumbling in the distance every 30
       | minutes or so at another camp the following night put me to sleep
       | like a distant thunderstorm.
       | 
       | I think this article just goes to show that you can find beauty
       | and wonder anywhere if you're open to seeing it. Even the
       | mosquitoes in interior Alaska don't bother me because it is
       | simply the world I live in.
        
       | LAC-Tech wrote:
       | I never understood why Denmark still bothers with Greenland. It
       | seems to cost them a lot of money while at the same time they
       | demand more and more autonomy. Danish isn't even an official
       | language anymore. What does Denmark gain out of the block grant
       | they give to Greenland?
        
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