[HN Gopher] A lifetime of social ties adds up to healthy aging
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A lifetime of social ties adds up to healthy aging
        
       Author : XzetaU8
       Score  : 159 points
       Date   : 2025-09-27 06:00 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.cornell.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.cornell.edu)
        
       | Luc wrote:
       | From reading this it seems to me there is a wide gap between what
       | happens at the molecular level and the social level, and they are
       | very eager to jump it?
        
         | iberator wrote:
         | >The cumulative effect of social advantages across a lifetime
        
         | 2716057 wrote:
         | Anecdotally I agree with the message, but the research looks
         | weak indeed.
         | 
         | A simple snapshot assessment and some scoring of an
         | individual's (entire, self-reported!) social life is too
         | simplistic. The measurements would have to be performed
         | throughout the life of each participant with sufficiently high
         | frequency.
        
           | nicce wrote:
           | If someone starts now, we may see results in 50 years?
        
             | psychoslave wrote:
             | You're the lucky guy today:
             | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11852352/
        
           | derbOac wrote:
           | For what it's worth, the dataset they used does in fact have
           | measurements spanning 30 years of adulthood, and similar
           | papers from that dataset leveraging the longitudinal data
           | have found similar conclusions.
           | 
           | Why it happens is less clear. It could be stress effects, or
           | it could be something like people with more social support
           | are more likely to get help going in for preventative care
           | etc.
        
         | cornholio wrote:
         | Social ties correlate with all kinds of beneficial traits,
         | outcomes and privileges, in a very complex and bidirectional
         | causal relation: sociable people have much better economic and
         | career prospects, healthy middle class people have the
         | opportunity, time and resources to engage in social activities,
         | raising a family is a high energy activity not everybody can
         | afford that basically "generates" a substantial web of social
         | links, which in turn support the person in their gray years,
         | and so on and so forth.
         | 
         | So the finding here is that healthy, wealthy people with a
         | support network age just like healthy, wealthy people with a
         | support network.
        
           | kixiQu wrote:
           | FTFS (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666
           | 35462...):
           | 
           | > All models adjusted for demographic and socioeconomic
           | variables selected a priori for their potential to confound
           | associations between CSA and biological aging indicators.
           | Covariates included age (in years), sex (male vs. female),
           | race/ethnicity (White, Black, Other), educational attainment
           | (12-point ordinal scale), and log-transformed current
           | household income (USD). These variables were treated as
           | exogenous predictors--assumed to temporally precede both CSA
           | and biological outcomes--and were included to block potential
           | backdoor paths and minimize bias.
           | 
           | > [...]
           | 
           | > Educational attainment and income reflect stratified access
           | to material and psychosocial resources that affect both
           | health behavior and biological risk processes (Adler and
           | Newman, 2002). Treating these covariates as exogenous
           | minimizes bias due to confounding while avoiding over-
           | adjustment for potential mediators or introducing collider
           | bias (Schisterman et al., 2009).
        
         | currymj wrote:
         | from a certain perspective, they've found that if I tell you
         | nothing more about a person than their lab test results on some
         | biomarkers, you can make a better-than-random educated guess
         | about how much social connection they have in their lives.
         | 
         | that's kind of interesting, though very far from the causal
         | claims in the university press release.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Does social media presence also count?
        
         | nenenejej wrote:
         | Yes, each post negates one Sunday mass.
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | No, only real social ties, that are there for you practically,
         | and can hug you or help you move.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | To the downvoters: have you run a clinical trial?
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | The journal mentioned in the article (Brain, Behavior and
           | Immunity - Health) has a few submissions related to this
           | topic, like the one that examines CRP levels and social media
           | use: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37224891/
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | Even if your social ties are drinking buddies?
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | Especially then.
         | 
         | People in the Greek or Italian blue zones, would let you take
         | away their daily wine drinking with buddies over their 100+
         | year old dead body...
        
           | xg15 wrote:
           | Hah, true. I guess it also shows the difference between
           | social drinking and only hanging on the bottle by yourself.
           | 
           | (Though for the "blue zones", I've read some suspicions that
           | the true secret of them is plain old corruption - with some
           | of the "supercentenarians" having died long ago and only
           | living on in the records, so family, friends or complicit
           | buerocrats can collect their pensions. Not sure if this is
           | widespread enough to explain the entire effect though)
        
             | coffeefirst wrote:
             | Yeah, and to make matters funnier the Seventh Day
             | Adventists bought the brand and added themselves to the
             | list.
             | 
             | But... there is one thing that seems to hold up. One of
             | Buettner claims is that as western ultra processed diets
             | came to these enclaves and displaced traditional diets,
             | incidence rates of obesity and metabolic disease has
             | spiked. That's real.
             | 
             | I bet we could measure a parallel effect on social media
             | displacing real social activity wherever it goes.
        
               | xg15 wrote:
               | > _But... there is one thing that seems to hold up. One
               | of Buettner claims is that as western ultra processed
               | diets came to these enclaves and displaced traditional
               | diets, incidence rates of obesity and metabolic disease
               | has spiked. That's real._
               | 
               | Yeah, no disagreement here. It would be a miracle if a
               | food that is designed and produced with the only
               | intention to have people eat as much of it as possible
               | had _no_ bad consequences. That 's before all the
               | biological evidence we have.
               | 
               | The processed food/obesity debate seems similar to me to
               | the climate debate. The evidence is well-researched and
               | mostly very clear and most of the "debate" around the
               | topic is with people who want to muddy the waters because
               | they have personal stakes in it in some way - be it
               | financial, political or psychological.
        
             | yung234 wrote:
             | If you are confident in the quality of birth records from
             | rural Sardinia in the 1920s there shouldn't be a problem.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | Blue zones correlated stronger with pension fraud than
           | lifestyle.
           | 
           | I mean, I've met old but still active Italians - it's not the
           | wine that enabled them to stay healthy this long. Italians by
           | and large drink less than other Europeans anyway.
        
       | nakedrobot2 wrote:
       | Holy crap there is a boat load of spurious correlation here.
       | 
       | Obligatory link https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | Section 2 and 3 of the study[1] go deep into their analysis
         | methods, you'll need something a bit more solid than "I've read
         | about correlation vs causation once" to counter it.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266635462...
        
       | zeofig wrote:
       | Is correlated with*
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | Is caused by*
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Is causing*
        
       | qmr wrote:
       | Does this mean I should encourage my beautiful young wife to join
       | the local stitch and bitch?
       | 
       | Obligatory "Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does
       | waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while
       | mouthing 'look over there'."
        
       | balamatom wrote:
       | "If nobody needs you to be alive you will die faster"
       | 
       | Gee thanks Science, you see now why people prefer Stupidity over
       | you?
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | The science part is determining that life situation "showed
         | slower epigenetic aging and lower levels of chronic
         | inflammation."
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | What if I just want to spite my enemies with my continued
         | existence? They will shake their fist angrily at the sky for
         | decades to come.
        
       | vachina wrote:
       | Well of course. When you feel you belong you don't stress as
       | much.
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | "there were no significant associations with short-term stress
         | markers like cortisol or catecholamines."
        
       | HPsquared wrote:
       | I wonder what fraction of people today have literally no friends
       | (perhaps this could be examined using a questionnaire and points
       | system to determine who counts as a real friend vs mere
       | acquaintance). The number of people with "zero" must surely be
       | rising, especially among the young.
        
         | sigmoid10 wrote:
         | I think it's more about the concept of mental isolation than
         | some magic hard number of "friends" (whatever way you define
         | it). You can have 100 close friends that you regularly talk to
         | and hang out with in your free time and still have noone to
         | talk to regarding certain issues. Speeking from a military/PTSD
         | perspective, a single person who you might not even share that
         | much with but who you can talk to about a particularly
         | traumatic thing might be worth more than all close friends and
         | family in the world. Because they will never understand what
         | you really feel like since none of them have experienced it.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | It's a real test of how real a friendship is. There are lots
           | of people who enjoy spending time together, talking,
           | laughing, remembering the good times, everything's great. But
           | start to open up about some real trauma and you will drive
           | 90% of them away.
        
             | jancsika wrote:
             | That's easy.
             | 
             | Just search instead for 100 duck-sized horses capable of
             | tiny acts of kindness and understanding. Much higher
             | success rate, much lower variance.
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | As someone in this group, I think there are a surprising number
         | of middle aged people without any friends. If you move or lose
         | your friend group (or never had one) it seems harder than ever
         | to find friends.
        
           | 3pt14159 wrote:
           | Have you tried going to a church or a country club or a bar?
           | There is also a find friends option on most dating apps. I
           | really wish that you'd find at least one friend. If you're in
           | Toronto I could meet up with you at a cafe or a pub.
        
           | jermaustin1 wrote:
           | I wouldn't call myself middle age (though I'm not THAT far
           | off, and past middle age for men in my family), but I'd agree
           | and say I could count my total friends on a single finger,
           | and I really don't even like him that much... and he knows
           | it, and probably feels the same.
           | 
           | Acquaintances, though, I have many. Many of I talk to
           | regularly, but would never consider them a friend, because
           | well, I know almost nothing personal about them. A former
           | boss that I meet up with anytime we are in the same city for
           | dinner and drinks, I've known for nearly 20 years, but I
           | don't know his wife's name, I know he has 4 kids, and I've
           | met them all in passing, but no clue what their names are,
           | etc.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm weird, and maybe I'm a bit lonely, and maybe it has
           | taken a couple decades to realize I squandered all of my in-
           | build friends from childhood, but I'm not sure I'd do it
           | differently. I've had a semi-successful life, and most of my
           | high school friends still live in their hometown, have dead-
           | end manual labor jobs, or have died/disappeared from drug
           | use.
           | 
           | Therapy tells me I pre-reject friendship so friendship
           | doesn't reject me, and I agree with it, but don't feel like
           | changing the pattern.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | > I pre-reject friendship so friendship doesn't reject me
             | 
             | LOL that would describe me perfectly as well I think. I
             | have not had "close" friends since I was in my early 20s.
             | Then everyone moved away and we all started our separate
             | lives.
             | 
             | The next group of friends came along when I had kids, and
             | parents naturally became friendly because we would see each
             | other at kids activities, sports, etc.
             | 
             | Then the kids grew up, and there was nothing bringing that
             | group of people together anymore. I still see and talk to
             | one or two of them but it's pretty infrequent.
             | 
             | Now, the idea of maintaining a real, close friendship just
             | sounds like too much work. I'm happy enough just living my
             | life on my terms.
             | 
             | Most friendships are just formed of the people we see
             | regularly due to circumstance. They may be pleasant but
             | they are not deep, and they will fall apart as soon as
             | circumstances change.
        
           | trashface wrote:
           | That was true for me, I moved 15 years ago and my friend
           | group went to zero practically overnight, never recovered.
           | Now middle aged and don't even have many acquaintances. I do,
           | however, have a few somewhat problematic family members and
           | relatives, more in that category than I would like.
           | 
           | Its not great but also not a huge problem - I believe now I
           | have some amount of Schizotypal personality spectrum, and
           | have all my life, though I never admit that to most people
           | IRL since the label freaks people out.
        
           | tayo42 wrote:
           | Having a kid caused me to lose my friend group. Everyone else
           | is childless and don't understand the difficulty of making
           | certain plans or don't care I guess. Though people tell me
           | I'll make new ones soon through kid activities.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Friends come from having opportunities for interaction with
           | people. People take that for granted though early in life
           | when they are essentially forced into these situations
           | through schooling, but after completing that don't give
           | themselves such opportunities any longer. If you find
           | yourself without friends in middle age, evaluate your own
           | time. Are there opportunities in your life to speak to
           | others? Taking up hobbies where you have a chance of
           | interacting with others is a great way to make friends.
           | 
           | In other words, friends won't drop into your lap. You have to
           | go where fish are actually biting and cast out your line.
        
         | throaway1988 wrote:
         | a lot of people have friends but we only "interact" via a
         | screen!
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | It also depends on what exactly you count as "real friends". If
         | you set the standard just a little bit high, many people only
         | have their family, or not even that. And you can have friends
         | and still feel alone.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | real friends are people who don't abandon you when you do
           | something they don't like. the problem is, until that happens
           | you can't tell the difference.
        
         | pojzon wrote:
         | My only real ,,friend" is my wife.
         | 
         | Over years I lost contact to all the ppl I considered friends.
         | 
         | I dont have time to nurture long distance relationships.
         | 
         | After studies we all moved away 200-300km from each other.
         | 
         | I have a lot of ,,pals" or ,,gaming friends". But those ppl
         | wont show up 4am at night to pick you up from a street fight.
         | 
         | I'm missing ,,meaningful" connections. Its easy to find ppl who
         | dont care.
        
           | dolebirchwood wrote:
           | To be fair, I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone
           | who gets into street fights at 4:00 a.m. My cut-off would be
           | midnight.
        
       | Herring wrote:
       | Yeah well look who's president. America has clearly decided not
       | to invest in its social fabric.
       | 
       | There are multiple deep factors contributing to this. Car-centric
       | lifestyle, few third places, low work-life balance, high and
       | increasing inequality, underdeveloped social safety net,
       | employer-tied social benefits, etc all tied together with
       | American individualism. If we want prosocial, community-oriented
       | behavior, we have to actually prioritize it.
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | Imagine blaming the president for not having friends lol
        
           | datavirtue wrote:
           | In this case, it works.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | His arguments is that people who voted for Trump made
           | decision to destroy "social fabric". Which is true, it was
           | vote with the hope harm will be done to liberals, trans, low
           | level goverment workers they hate.
           | 
           | It is not argument about loss of personal friendship, but
           | about values those Americans have. And those values do not
           | have space for social fabric other then domination over
           | "other".
        
             | Herring wrote:
             | > _It is not argument about loss of personal friendship,
             | but about values those Americans have._
             | 
             | They're quite linked, eg after 1954 Brown vs Board of
             | Education, many cities closed all kinds of meeting grounds
             | like pools, libraries, schools, parks, playgrounds etc to
             | prevent desegregation. Loss of such places contributes to
             | loneliness. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-
             | established political practice in America.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming#Desegre
             | g...
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | All of those things were true thirty years ago (car-centric
         | society, inequality, etc.) and yet loneliness wasn't as bad.
         | 
         | I think technology is almost certainly more to blame here.
         | Endless online entertainment, social media, dating apps, etc.
         | have all erased in-person social lives.
        
           | Herring wrote:
           | Lots of Western European countries have phones too. It took
           | time to get where we are, eg for rents/mortgages/college to
           | outpace wages enough to seriously impact work-life balance.
        
           | mrtesthah wrote:
           | The essay "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital"
           | which touched on many of the GP poster's points, came out in
           | 1995. This has been happening for a long time. The pandemic
           | just made it a lot worse.
        
           | HPsquared wrote:
           | If anything, I'd say young people drive less than previous
           | generations.
        
         | anal_reactor wrote:
         | I blame the fact that nowadays it's possible to live your
         | entire life comfortably in solitude. People used to form
         | relationships not out of pleasure, but out of necessity - it
         | was impossible to farm land without family, and even in a city
         | it was difficult to get shit done without at least some
         | connections with neighbors and such. Once this necessity
         | disappeared because most services started to function
         | perfectly, so did social connections.
        
           | forgotmypass12 wrote:
           | The whole borrow a cup of sugar was real for my parents
           | growing up. Now? You can get it delivered in less than an
           | hour.
        
       | TheDong wrote:
       | > Covariates. All models adjusted for ... age, sex,
       | race/ethnicity, educational attainment, and log-transformed
       | current household income.
       | 
       | Let's look at something else which wasn't controlled for at all:
       | doing physical activities.
       | 
       | People who, for example, run every week or bike every week often
       | do so because they have a group of friends who also does that,
       | and doing such a physical activity also builds friendships better
       | than not doing such activities.
       | 
       | Perhaps exercising is both correlated with health and with
       | building groups of friends.
       | 
       | Or perhaps exercising is correlated with being attractive, and
       | being attractive is correlated with building social connections.
       | 
       | ... I guess what I'm trying to say here is that this study shows
       | correlation only, and there are so many confounding factors I
       | consider it pretty tenuous.
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | That could be a factor, though 1) the study found no
         | correlation with cortisol levels which is affected by exercise,
         | and 2) income and education are highly correlated with physical
         | activity levels already, so wouldn't put too much hope on that.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | I like to remind myself that, in biology, all the arrows are two-
       | way
        
       | api wrote:
       | What I sometimes wonder about these studies is whether we have
       | established causation. Is it that socializing makes people
       | healthier or do healthy people socialize more?
        
       | Insanity wrote:
       | Humans are social animals, and if I'm being pretty reductionist
       | this paper states "being social is healthy for social animals.
       | Being healthy means longer life spans".
       | 
       | So not too much of a surprise there.
       | 
       | Edit: still valuable to do research even to confirm whatever
       | seems to follow logically. Not trying to discredit that!
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | I am neither social nor an animal. What exactly is the
         | mechanism of action, what is it about going to church or
         | whatever that decreases this nasty interleukin-6? And how can
         | carried out most minimally, or made into pills?
        
           | sylos wrote:
           | Unless you're a robot, you are a social animal
        
       | jvanderbot wrote:
       | I find it fun that alcohol increases DNA methylation, but we find
       | now that having a rich social life decreases it. If you need any
       | other reason to see the societal fitness of societal lubricants.
       | I've cut way back into "maybe one once in a while" territory, but
       | I also have regular social interactions with exactly two toddlers
       | and one wife and that's about it.
       | 
       | I've never been to AA, but I'm told it's the cues that get you,
       | and I do admit the memories of beers + guitar hero or other such
       | nonsense from old days is exactly what I want every time I open a
       | beer.
       | 
       | It's like that old rat experiment, where they gave them cocaine
       | or heroine laced water + regular water, and they always preferred
       | the the drugs, until there was a rich social life / environment,
       | at which point they rarely did.
       | 
       | Socializing is powerful stuff if you can find enough time to
       | build up enough trust to just have a heap of fun for a few hours.
       | I swear a side-splitting laugh fest adds years to your life. When
       | is the last time you laughed so hard with friends you couldn't
       | breathe?
        
         | anal_reactor wrote:
         | I wish I had friends, but I also wish I had a Ferrari, the
         | latter one might be reachable within my lifetime if I work hard
         | for it.
         | 
         | Wait, with a budget of EUR100 000 I could actually get some
         | second-hand old shitty Ferrari. That's... surprisingly
         | affordable. I mean buying this shit right now would be highly
         | irresponsible, but I can see myself potentially buying one in
         | far future.
         | 
         | I just checked Lamborghini Murcielago, the dream sportscar of
         | my childhood, and it goes for like EUR300 000. Hmmm... that's
         | like, a lot of money for what is basically a toy, but if I
         | really really really wanted that, it would be achievable within
         | my lifetime without completely ruining me financially.
         | 
         | https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=432670758...
         | 
         | Look at this shit, it's beautiful. EUR260 000. Not now and not
         | tomorrow, but totally achievable as a lifetime goal.
         | 
         | What a day to be alive. Having a luxury sportscar is more
         | realistic than having friends. Send immaterial help.
        
           | HPsquared wrote:
           | Maybe you can make some friends in the quest for the
           | Lamborghini. Or maybe you could form a group who collectively
           | buy it?
        
             | anal_reactor wrote:
             | It used to be fashionable to collectively buy boats and
             | vacation homes and other shit. Turns out, having a shared
             | expensive thing quickly leads to disagreements.
        
               | bravetraveler wrote:
               | > Turns out, having a shared expensive thing quickly
               | leads to disagreements.
               | 
               | In this case, I'm guessing the first minor bit of body
               | damage _[gravel, whatever]_ or consumable replacements
               | _[tires, brakes, etc]_. Ignoring the financial pressure
               | /means aspect, preferences are what they are. Tire
               | pressure, cleanliness, or what-have-you.
               | 
               | Personally, I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini without breaking
               | it/rebuilding several times over. Fancy car, want to see
               | what it _really_ has. Other people? Baby it to no end
               | because it 's so precious. They got a date tonight.
               | 
               | All this to say: an old rustbox _[or several]_ is
               | probably the better group project. What little I knew of
               | my Dad: demo derby, sounded great.
        
               | IncreasePosts wrote:
               | Buying a share is still very common in the personal
               | aircraft world
        
           | bix6 wrote:
           | If you buy the Murci you'll be invited to every cars and
           | coffee so lots of potential friends there!
        
             | anal_reactor wrote:
             | Shit I'll do when I'm 70 and the stock market works in my
             | favor.
        
               | decafninja wrote:
               | Both my father and father in law retired recently.
               | They've done financially pretty well in life - not super
               | rich, but they can live loose a bit.
               | 
               | Both were recently in the market for new cars. As a car
               | enthusiast, I told them to YOLO and buy something like a
               | 911.
               | 
               | But no, they got a staid huge BMW sedan and a staid huge
               | Benz SUV respectively, despite neither of them ever
               | likely to use the back seats at all.
        
           | sigfubar wrote:
           | I get a good chuckle out of these articles. "Here's another
           | thing I lack that was supposed to make me live longer!"
           | 
           | Speaking of living longer: I've had my fill of fast cars
           | already, but how about an airplane? I watched some guys fly
           | Piper Cubs in Alaska. That looked fun as hell.
           | https://youtu.be/XXuIA_b35fs
           | 
           | Perhaps I'll buy one of those. They aren't so expensive.
        
           | sfdlkj3jk342a wrote:
           | How old are you? I found I grew out of an interest in cars
           | after my early 20's.
        
             | andrepd wrote:
             | I've definitely become a fuck-cars car enthusiast in my
             | late 20s, if that makes sense lol
             | 
             | In that I still love (classic) cars, I still love (sim)
             | racing, at the same time that I absolutely despise car-
             | centric infrastructure and urbanism as one of the great
             | catastrophes of the 20th century.
        
             | anal_reactor wrote:
             | I'm getting more and more interested in cars actually. But
             | I don't care about specs, it's more about appreciation of
             | the looks. Some designs can be beautiful.
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | I never really do the full belly-laugh thing with friends or
         | family. 90% of the time I'm alone in a room, seeing something
         | funny on a screen.
        
         | throaway1988 wrote:
         | that old rat experiment is considered bunkum now
        
           | sejje wrote:
           | Why? By whom?
        
             | andrewl wrote:
             | The rat experiment is usually referred to as Rat Park:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
             | 
             | There are _criticisms_ of it, some of which are in the
             | criticisms section of the Wikipedia article, and look to be
             | valid.
             | 
             | I never liked when people talked about debunking an
             | experiment that was honestly done and just needed
             | refutation or at least correction. If researchers publish
             | research that was honestly done and then later found to
             | have statistical flaws, or that is disproved with a larger
             | sample size or whatever, I wouldn't say it had been
             | _debunked_. I'd say it was refuted or corrected or refined
             | or whatever. If it was a "research" study where the group
             | publishing it _knew_ is was junk designed to promote an
             | agenda or sell a product, then the term debunked is fair.
        
               | jvanderbot wrote:
               | It's all fair. All studies are flawed but some are
               | useful. As a paradigm shift for addiction I could see it
               | being less than a home run. As a statement about
               | happiness it's all well and good if for no other reason
               | than an analogy and potential positive finding.
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | > When is the last time you laughed so hard with friends you
         | couldn't breathe?
         | 
         | 2 weeks ago in Oaxaca with some friends. We were at dinner and
         | one (a guy) mentioned the Mormon purity defying practice of
         | soaking which sparked confusion from the other (a girl). So he
         | explained it in Mandarin so the others in the restaurant
         | wouldn't understand. It's not a language I speak but watching
         | her face told me everything I needed to know.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Last time I laughed like that with friends I was probably 18
           | or 19. That was 40 years ago.
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | Damn dude, I (truly) feel for you. It's increasingly rare
             | for me too, but it's so healing. If you're comfortable
             | sharing, whereabouts do you live? What are your political
             | inclinations? (The latter I ask because it radically
             | influences what you find funny, not because it matters
             | otherwise).
             | 
             | With no context, I highly recommend finding a comedy club
             | near you and having a few drinks. It might take several
             | attempts though so don't give up
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Former Mormon here, not familiar with "Mormon purity defying
           | practice of soaking". Some explanation is needed
        
         | isamuel wrote:
         | It's not the cues that get you. That is an idea promoted
         | largely by treatment centers and the rehab industry, who need
         | to be able to plausibly claim they are teaching their customers
         | how to avoid relapse. I'm a recovered alcoholic and I can
         | assure you, my "cue" for drinking was being alive and awake at
         | the same time.
         | 
         | Your reaction is a sane and normal one: you remember a good
         | time, and you have some inkling to recreate it. Certainly. And
         | to most people that makes sense. But alcoholics are different
         | from most people, and their understanding that is an essential
         | first step to recovery.
        
           | jvanderbot wrote:
           | That makes sense! I didn't mean to sweep the experience into
           | a few pithy words. I'm past the edit window, but I"m glad
           | you're pointing this out.
        
             | isamuel wrote:
             | Totally understand. With any luck, you and I have played
             | two sides of a dialogue that'll be read by someone else,
             | for whom it might be quite useful. For that I thank you.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | Most folks aren't alcoholics. Maybe they did some beer
         | shotgunning in college, but stopped. Heck, I've known folks
         | that came out of combat, hooked on opiates, and quit.
         | 
         | If you are one, though, there's nothing gonna keep you from the
         | drink, except total abstinence, and some kind of structure (AA,
         | NA, Church, Martial Arts, etc.).
         | 
         | I'm a recovering addict (over 45 years), and participate in
         | Fellowship. Gives me _tremendous_ socialization.
        
           | bossyTeacher wrote:
           | >some kind of structure
           | 
           | Don't you just mean social activities? You don't need to
           | accept metaphysical dogmas or engage in scheduled physical
           | combat with other people to socialize.
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | Hey, thanks for redefining "structure." I guess it needed
             | that.
             | 
             | Sure, go ahead and do whatever you think works. If you're
             | an alcoholic, it either will, or won't, work; with
             | [rewards|consequences] to follow.
             | 
             | If you're not, it probably won't hurt. In fact, it could
             | definitely enrich your life.
        
               | bossyTeacher wrote:
               | I highly doubt there was ever any doubt about the
               | benefits of socialization. Science just confirmed what
               | used to be commonly held beliefs
        
         | majormajor wrote:
         | Alcohol reduces inhibition but the real trick to lower your
         | social inhibition is just practice.
         | 
         | It's not really complex, it's like anything else you'd study -
         | mindful, focused practice; pay attention to details; iterate.
        
       | RagnarD wrote:
       | Aging is systematic accumulating damage.
       | 
       | "Healthy systemic accumulated damage" is therefore a more honest
       | way to put it, exposing it as completely ridiculous.
       | 
       | Thank goodness that longevity efforts have now become well
       | established biotech and pharma goals around the world.
        
       | notmyjob wrote:
       | Probably why women outlive men. Also wars, and hypergamy.
        
       | tsoukase wrote:
       | They need to cancel out the whole human civilisation as a
       | confounding factor in order to conclude something useful. Linking
       | genetic and social factors is something I cannot decide to laugh
       | or amaze.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | I don't really see what you mean? It's well known and widely
         | accepted that environmental factors influence gene expression.
         | Social factors are a very large part of our environment.
        
       | constantcrying wrote:
       | Do scientists just randomly publish obvious nonsense now?
       | 
       | The causation is obviously in the other direction: _Healthy
       | people socialize more._
       | 
       | Proposing the inverted causation, without even examining the
       | alternative is ridiculous. This is just trash science.
       | 
       | Having a correlational result and using it to pretend that one
       | has to cause the other with absolutely no mechanism is not
       | science, it is reading tea leaves.
       | 
       | A healthy person has more opportunities and more abilities to
       | engage in social activities. The less healthy a person becomes
       | the rarer those opportunities become. Basically every single
       | health condition, especially the most common ones like obesity,
       | make it harder for people to engage in social activity.
       | 
       | The alternative explanation is pretty simple and does not require
       | some magical mechanism whereby social interactions are somehow
       | causing your body to age slower.
        
         | crossbody wrote:
         | Exactly right. I doubt we can get to causation unless we
         | conduct proper long term experiment instead of just looking at
         | correlations and assuming causation goes one way.
         | 
         | The study says social bonds are associated with lower
         | inflammation. It's well documented that inflammation causes
         | anxiety and depression. How does this affect one's social
         | activity? Negatively, the mechanism is very clear - you don't
         | socialize if you are depressed and anxious. And somehow they
         | assume the reverse casual relationship without explaining the
         | mechanism for it.
        
         | m101 wrote:
         | Introverts probably socialise less because they find it more
         | tiresome or find fewer opportunities they would enjoy. Would
         | they fall under "unhealthy"?
        
       | AfterHIA wrote:
       | I often feel like that my inflammatory illness is related to the
       | fact that I lost all my friends in my 20's and came from a
       | dysfunctional family.
       | 
       | The upside is that I've been suicidal since I was 15 so if Johnny
       | Reaper comes in the form of loneliness cancer I'll have been done
       | a subtle favor.
       | 
       | Also it's just an aside but God isn't real.
        
         | exe34 wrote:
         | Living life alone makes your life shorter, but it sucks enough
         | that it'll feel a lot longer anyway, so it balances out!
        
           | sejje wrote:
           | I'm no longer living my life alone, but I greatly cherish the
           | time that I did.
           | 
           | I find being alone wonderful.
        
           | AfterHIA wrote:
           | "Life is very long when you're lonely."
           | 
           | -Steven Patrick Morrissey
        
             | wiether wrote:
             | Being alone and being lonely are not the same thing.
        
               | exe34 wrote:
               | BINGO!
               | 
               | (this always gets brought up every single time, like a
               | mantra that people have to keep saying to convince
               | themselves. So it's on my bingo card.)
        
               | AfterHIA wrote:
               | https://vimeo.com/384844632
               | 
               | If you're going to talk shit don't end your sentence with
               | a conceptual preposition. You're making us all look bad."
               | 
               | #AFVP
        
         | unfitted2545 wrote:
         | That's really interesting because I also started getting my
         | inflammatory illness after losing all my friends.
        
           | AfterHIA wrote:
           | I'm not razzing you but if you need a pal I'm here for you.
           | These are trying times.
        
       | grishka wrote:
       | There's no such thing as "healthy aging". Aging is deterioration.
       | It's unhealthy by its very nature.
        
         | dag11 wrote:
         | I think the clear implication of the phrase "healthy aging" is
         | a lower-than-average rate of deterioration with respect to
         | increasing years on earth.
         | 
         | It's like, you actually can describe one of two burgers as
         | "healthier" even though they're both unhealthy. One is just
         | less harmful. It's a valid use of language.
        
       | wonderwonder wrote:
       | This is my main concern. At 46 i'm in excellent physical
       | condition, do well financially and am incredibly lucky to have
       | the wife and kids that I do. I really want to live for another
       | 200 years.
       | 
       | I just have absolutely zero friends or interactions with people
       | who aren't my wife and kids. Haven't for probably 15 years now. I
       | work remotely and 99% of the people I work with are offshore so
       | very little overlap in work times. So the occasional teams
       | message on a group channel is it. No friends or even
       | acquaintances. I occasionally find myself craving the little
       | notification icon on X to let me know some stranger liked my
       | post. I recognize that this is not optimal.
       | 
       | The gym is essentially my hobby but max interaction is the
       | occasional fist bump or head nod. I spend 90 minutes there 6 days
       | a week.
       | 
       | Its to the point where other people aren't even real to me
       | anymore, I can go literally months without a real life
       | conversation.
       | 
       | Not complaining but it does worry me from the longevity aspect
        
         | monocularvision wrote:
         | Definitely tougher to make and maintain friend relationships at
         | this age. Most of my group comes from church but think about
         | other social settings or clubs that might provide opportunities
         | to make connections.
         | 
         | The other suggestion is to not worry about who initiates what.
         | I make it a habit of reaching out to people and don't mind if I
         | am the one doing so the majority of the time. It is so easy,
         | for me at least, to fall into the trap of keeping track to make
         | sure the people "care enough".
         | 
         | Hope that helps and hopefully my entirely unasked for advice
         | wasn't inappropriate. Only responding because I am a similar
         | age and struggled with the same.
        
           | wonderwonder wrote:
           | Appreciate the advice. Definitely something I need to make
           | happen if its going to happen.
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | In my 30s, church became my only source of friends and
           | acquaintances. However even then, I only made two "true"
           | friends I still meet up with outside of church. Three, if I
           | count my wife who I consider my best friend :)
           | 
           | The rest seemed like friends while we attended the same
           | church, but quickly vanished as soon as we left (the
           | particular church, not the faith). Maybe more of those
           | relationships could have been nurtured to last if given more
           | effort, but as both my wife and I are introverts, it wasn't
           | easy.
           | 
           | I'm in my early 40s now. We still attend church, but we find
           | the whole social aspect of it draining. We attend
           | worship...then go home.
        
       | adastra22 wrote:
       | "healthy aging" is an oxymoron.
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | My friends are objectively bad for my health vs. how well I take
       | care of myself without their influences.
       | 
       | What I suspect is common WRT these studies is lonely people
       | become self-destructive, reaching for stuff like alcohol and/or
       | comfort eating, i.e. harmful substitutes for relationships they
       | miss.
       | 
       | But I don't really have those issues. I can be super content
       | spending most time solitary with regular impersonal interactions
       | at cafes and grocery stores. Just having a modicum of peaceful
       | sharing of space with others tops up my socializing needs, beyond
       | that it's fast into diminishing returns territory.
       | 
       | - extremely introverted person who never developed a dependence
       | on others for self-worth and/or happiness
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | I wish these studies would dive deeper into the mechanisms that
       | prompt healthy aging, rather than just saying "social ties".
       | 
       | The few that come to mind are laughter, stress, exercise, and
       | cognitive engagement.
       | 
       | It might be interesting to see if diet changes as a result of
       | social ties as well. We can make an educated guess that stronger
       | social ties means less time eating alone.
       | 
       | Surely it isn't just the social ties themselves.
        
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