[HN Gopher] U.S. once again hits new low in World Happiness Report
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       U.S. once again hits new low in World Happiness Report
        
       Author : surprisetalk
       Score  : 156 points
       Date   : 2025-09-25 20:52 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
       | I wonder what's happening with Switzerland, as it seem to also be
       | dropping on the graph
        
         | BoredPositron wrote:
         | Austerity.
        
         | tsunamifury wrote:
         | Switzerland has been such an odd place where its population
         | enjoys an enlightened high quality life funded on the back of
         | the world's shadiest wealth.
         | 
         | And in the midst of that is down to one final bank which if it
         | collapsed is worth something like 20x the gdp of the nation in
         | holdings.
         | 
         | So maybe the Swiss are waking up to how much more delicate
         | their situation may be.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Germany lower that the US ? That is a bit questionable to me.
        
         | kylecazar wrote:
         | It's a few spots higher than the US this year.
        
           | kwanbix wrote:
           | Actually two.
        
         | layman51 wrote:
         | This year it looks like Germany is higher on the scale. I am
         | surprised by Mexico being really high.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | It's not all about finance. From my recent visits to Mexico
           | everyone there seems much happier and friendlier than in the
           | US and Europe. It was honestly quite striking. I have no
           | theory what causes this (maybe large families?), but it was
           | really quite obvious.
        
             | mothballed wrote:
             | I have an unsubstantiated theory that people in Latin
             | America largely realize their institutions are completely
             | broken or ineffectual, thus they and their local community
             | are on their own in life. Thus it is pointless to be angry
             | about a lot of things people in other places are angry
             | about (corruption, government, immigrants, prices,
             | corporations, etc) because it's a total lost cause, it's
             | not like they could vote it away even if they tried. The
             | end result is their sphere of worries basically are
             | constrained to their immediate family, work, and community
             | all of which are things they not only have control over but
             | actually probably will care about them.
        
           | sdsd wrote:
           | It's mostly people just rating their own lives, which leaves
           | it open to people in different cultures reporting the same
           | actual happiness differently. In some cultures, saying you're
           | happy is bragging, so people understate. In others, rating it
           | low is complaining, so people report overly happy.
           | 
           | I see World Happiness Report as primarily a measure of what's
           | considered the most socially acceptable way to discuss
           | happiness across cultures. In the USA, people often brag
           | about how miserable they are, for example.
        
         | knockergrowl wrote:
         | They have standards.
        
         | iagooar wrote:
         | High crime, high taxes, stagnating economy. I am surprised
         | Germany landed this high on the list.
        
           | DarkNova6 wrote:
           | I would be surprised if their ranking would be increased if
           | any of these were addressed.
        
           | fabian2k wrote:
           | What high crime? I'm assuming we're using the US as a
           | reference here given the audience of this site.
        
           | twixfel wrote:
           | Crime isn't high. No real risk of random violence in my
           | experience (unlike the US, e.g. >weekly school shootings
           | etc.). Taxes and economy, they aren't good right now true.
        
             | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
             | > From the 2000-01 to 2021-22 school years, there were
             | 1,375 school shootings at public and private elementary and
             | secondary schools, resulting in 515 deaths and 1,161
             | injuries.
             | 
             | 1,700 people out of ~50 million K-12 students in a 22 year
             | period.
             | 
             | .003352% chance of injury or worse over 22 years. And now I
             | realize the denominator should be bigger because it doesn't
             | count faculty/staff or college students.
             | 
             | There's no reason to live in fear of school shootings. (But
             | there should still be much greater gun control.)
        
         | heyheyhouhou wrote:
         | I'm surprised that Germany is that high... it's decent in
         | summer, miserable the rest of the year
        
         | tsunamifury wrote:
         | Why? Germany has been in a sustained economic decline now for
         | many years and has seen the shuttering of manufacturing and
         | skyrocketing housing costs.
         | 
         | Americas mistakes are not as unique to us as Europeans keep
         | telling themselves.
        
         | fabian2k wrote:
         | It seems this is self-reported. And we Germans certainly
         | wouldn't admit that we're living pretty good lives overall.
         | There's always something to complain about.
        
       | bigtex88 wrote:
       | Everything is expensive, our president is the dumbest person to
       | ever live, we're constantly at threat of random shootings, and
       | did I mention everything is expensive?
        
         | ajmurmann wrote:
         | People in Mexico are much poorer and the country has huge crime
         | and corruption problems. Just the disappeared people and
         | especially women alone are massively concerning and likely
         | worse per capita than US school shootings. Yet somehow they are
         | happier there.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | People on the internet said the same things about W, and
         | thought things couldn't get worse.
         | 
         | Oops.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I've heard a lot of worries from friends, especially friends with
       | kids, I had never heard before. Mostly gun violence and the loss
       | of women's rights, which some friends have voiced as restricting
       | their options in where they will work and live that they never
       | had before. That, and the new anxiety about bringing your phone
       | on a plane, which I share.
        
         | barkerja wrote:
         | > and the new anxiety about bringing your phone on a plane
         | 
         | This one I am not familiar with. What's the latest development
         | here?
        
           | standardUser wrote:
           | An increase in phone searches at points of entry and broad
           | threats of detention and passport revocation if you're
           | critical of Trump / supportive of Palestine / a "member" of
           | the latest "terrorist organization" Antifa
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/brian-
           | mast-m...
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | All the anti-trans stuff has basically guaranteed that I can
         | never live or work in half the country, because it would be
         | fundamentally unsafe for some family members to even visit me
         | there.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | A state by state breakdown would be more interesting.
       | 
       | Many US states are larger than multiple EU countries combined.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-states-where-america...
        
       | pnw wrote:
       | Aren't the Nordic countries listed at the top also the highest
       | consumers of anti-depressants? I only know this because having
       | travelled to the Copenhagen airport many times with Danish
       | colleagues, one of them mentioned it when we saw the inevitable
       | "Welcome to the happiest country on Earth" posters.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | cesarvarela wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_antidepre.
           | ..
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | > The OECD have not included the United States in these
             | reviews, but if added the country would have the highest or
             | second-highest rate.
             | 
             | Nordic countries are also not on the top of the list.
             | 
             | This is basically just a list of developed countries where
             | people can afford luxury medication.
        
               | impossiblefork wrote:
               | It could also be a matter of the seasons in the case of
               | Iceland.
        
         | MangoToupe wrote:
         | Putting aside the silliness of trying to quantify happiness,
         | that could just as easily be a marker of wealth or western
         | fascination with chemicals. I've visited extremely poor
         | countries & from what I can tell, antidepressants aren't going
         | to make a dent in many if not most issues humans face.
        
         | tokai wrote:
         | Turns out people are happy living places where they can get
         | help and treatment.
        
           | throwmeaway222 wrote:
           | Probably happy where you can get a job.
        
         | andsoitis wrote:
         | > Aren't the Nordic countries listed at the top also the
         | highest consumers of anti-depressants?
         | 
         | Here's a report of the countries with most antidepressant users
         | in the world 2024 (https://ceoworld.biz/2024/05/12/revealed-
         | countries-with-most...):
         | 
         | 1. Iceland
         | 
         | 2. Portugal
         | 
         | 3. UK
         | 
         | 4. Canada
         | 
         | 5. Australia
         | 
         | 6. Sweden
         | 
         | 7. Spain
         | 
         | 8. New Zealand
         | 
         | 9. Chile
         | 
         | 10. Belgium
         | 
         | This report lists OECD countries but excludes the US. If the US
         | were included, the report suggests the US would be among the
         | top (either highest or second-highest) in terms of DDD per
         | 1,000 inhabitants.
        
           | femto wrote:
           | That could be because the "happy" countries have good health
           | systems with wide coverage, so the people that need anti-
           | depressants get them. In the "sad" countries people with
           | depression often don't get to see a doctor, so a whole lot of
           | people have undiagnosed and unmedicated depression.
        
       | marc_abonce wrote:
       | The article has a paywall for me and I was curious about their
       | methodology. Fortunately, Wikipedia has some information:
       | 
       | "Nationally representative samples of respondents are asked to
       | think of a ladder, with the best possible life for them being a
       | 10, and the worst possible life being a 0. They are then asked to
       | rate their own current lives on that 0 to 10 scale."
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report
        
         | nutjob2 wrote:
         | It could be named the "lack of ambition" report.
         | 
         | Or equally lack of envy or discontent.
        
       | stickfigure wrote:
       | This has all the scientific rigor of a "which Disney princess are
       | you?" quiz.
        
         | debo_ wrote:
         | I'm the princess from Brave, in case you were wondering.
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | How would you prefer they change it?
         | 
         | Happiness can be studied in a lot of ways, and none of them is
         | complete or accurate. Momentary happiness is possible in a
         | miserable life and vice versa.
         | 
         | I suspect this survey does tell us something over time, if
         | methodology is stable.
        
           | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
           | Maybe not going bankrupt because of medical expenses as the
           | only first world country with universal healthcare? When it
           | comes to the hierarchy of needs, not dying because of
           | unaffordable or unavailable healthcare I'm sure ranks near
           | the top.
           | 
           | There is no objective measure where the median American is
           | better off than the median European.
           | 
           | I'm saying this as a born and bread American citizen who is
           | fortunate enough to be on the better side of the economic
           | divide.
        
             | nielsbot wrote:
             | The parent was asking how one might change the survey, not
             | the US.
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | This is another article in a long tail of anti-American and
         | anti-Western content that has been cropping up online for about
         | two years now. It's getting to be a very popular subject.
         | 
         | Such content has always existed, you'd run into it once in a
         | while. But for the past two years, I'm running into these
         | articles almost every day.
        
           | nielsbot wrote:
           | For example?
           | 
           | If you are also including this article.. I mean, it's not
           | anti-western and I can't even see how it's anti-American.
           | It's reporting survey results.
        
             | yatopifo wrote:
             | It's pretty wild how people lump the collective West and
             | the US together. Maybe that worked in the past, but the US
             | as it is today is definitely not how one would imagine a
             | western country.
        
             | rand846633 wrote:
             | Here is how I read OP:
             | 
             | It is anti American not in the sense of "I think America is
             | a bad/immortal place" but much more in the sense of "we
             | objectively can measure that in accordance to Americans,
             | America is bad for Americans".. Now this could be true or
             | not. It is anti American. If it is fair/true or not it's an
             | other question.
        
           | bryant wrote:
           | > This is another article in a long tail of anti-American and
           | _anti-Western_ content that has been cropping up online for
           | about two years now. It 's getting to be a very popular
           | subject.
           | 
           | 1. Finland
           | 
           | 2. Denmark
           | 
           | 3. Iceland
           | 
           | 4. Sweden
           | 
           | 5. Netherlands
           | 
           | It's just an interesting assertion you're making, I suppose.
        
         | darth_avocado wrote:
         | It always has been. Obviously no offense to any country, but
         | Palestine and Ukraine which are quite literally in the middle
         | of conflicts are "happier" than places like India tells you
         | that happiness is a vague concept and the methodology to
         | measure it is quite dubious.
        
         | potato3732842 wrote:
         | Dory, obviously.
        
         | jacobgkau wrote:
         | Yeah, when people try to bring these "X country is happier than
         | Y" studies into conversations, I always tell them: the only
         | thing those studies capture is how well the population's been
         | trained to report that they're happy.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Thank god the Netherlands is only #5. It's high, but not too
       | high. That said, the Finns probably got surveyed right after
       | exiting the sauna. Is that fair?
        
       | pickledonions49 wrote:
       | America is rich, but normal citizens aren't making money anymore.
        
         | Toby1VC wrote:
         | I don't leave the house anymore. Am I considered normal?
        
           | rufus_foreman wrote:
           | [delayed]
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Not just that, normal citizens are getting _poorer_ at a very
         | rapid rate. Groceries, housing, healthcare, education - all
         | more and more unaffordible every day. Inflation is eating away
         | the American middle class lifestyle.
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | We have been under attack for years and it is definitely working.
       | Hell, at this point it's not off the table that our democracy
       | itself will fall to this attack. I'd be incredibly impressed by
       | the effectiveness, if it were not so frankly depressing.
        
       | Jcampuzano2 wrote:
       | Our president won't condemn violence and Politicians on the right
       | all fan the flames while holding everyone to higher standards
       | than the president himself when it comes to violent rhetoric.
       | 
       | Gun violence regardless of position is still always in the news,
       | and the party in power has no intention of doing anything about
       | it.
       | 
       | The political elite actively shun science.
       | 
       | Tech billionaires are all licking the boot - so the hopes some
       | had that those with money and large corporate entities would keep
       | the government in check are long gone.
       | 
       | Politicians actively endanger our international relationships
       | with the entire world. Everybody in the world looks at us like a
       | laughing stock.
       | 
       | The elite actively welcome and cheer for AI taking peoples jobs.
       | 
       | The economy is shit meanwhile our leaders lie to our faces about
       | how tariffs and their own economic policies work and pointing at
       | wall street gains meanwhile the majority of Americans don't
       | invest in the first place.
       | 
       | Our rights are being stripped. Military/National Guard is
       | actively deployed in the streets in places, and there is threat
       | of deployment in other places (hint left leaning places). Any
       | speech not aligned with the presidents values is criticized and
       | threatened at a national scale.
       | 
       | Politics is just a reality TV show made for clicks and our
       | current leaders are basically the equivalent if children
       | bickering. "Transparency" is completely gone - they ran on
       | transparency and then immediately flipped, who coulda seen that
       | coming.
       | 
       | There is literally nothing to be happy about here unless you're
       | already rich.
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | >Tech billionaires are all licking the boot
         | 
         | I never understood that. What is the point of amassing all that
         | money and power if you have to grovel to terrible people?
        
           | analog8374 wrote:
           | When you are a billionaire you are 100% committed to playing
           | that game. There's no getting around it.
           | 
           | And part of that game is great displays of sucking.
        
           | megaman821 wrote:
           | I was told that the billionaires run the goverment, so I
           | don't know what you are talking about.
        
         | Aloisius wrote:
         | I'm not rich, but I'm still happy. I have little reason not to
         | be.
         | 
         | I woke up today and the sun shining and birds chirping. I made
         | myself and my partner breakfast, greeted people on my way to
         | work. I got a good amount of work done, then had a nice lunch
         | and now I'm taking a little break.
         | 
         | My life is better than it was growing up and substantially
         | better than how bad it was for my ancestors.
         | 
         | Perhaps my expectations are lower than yours or perhaps I'm
         | more focused on my actual experiences rather than ruminating on
         | whatever sensationalistic news story of the day is or what
         | could happen.
        
       | eikenberry wrote:
       | Happiness is irrelevant, productivity is the only metric that
       | matters. Joking, not joking.
        
         | awalsh128 wrote:
         | Get off HN and back to work you.
        
       | pearlsontheroad wrote:
       | Glad to see Mexico in the top 10 for the first time. Good
       | economic outlook (lots of employment opportunities), enhanced
       | social programs to combat extreme poverty, tight-knit families
       | and communities. People are feeling good south of the border.
       | Can't wait to join them.
        
         | nielsbot wrote:
         | The American capitalists might have something to say about that
         | tho!
        
         | analog8374 wrote:
         | Mexico is putting out some fine cinema recently.
         | 
         | Mexico might be the new California.
        
           | rufus_foreman wrote:
           | >> Mexico might be the new California
           | 
           | More like the new Oregon...the new place where people are
           | justifiably pissed off about all the Californians moving
           | there.
        
           | cpursley wrote:
           | Any recommendations?
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | It was also the old California.
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | Some years ago I moved back to Finland (#1) after several years
       | in the US (now at #24).
       | 
       | While the quality of life really is objectively better with
       | children, the secret to these rankings is probably the
       | calibration inherent in the question. Finnish people just don't
       | have high expectations. Every positive development is a welcome
       | surprise.
       | 
       | Americans are primed to want it all and seem to constantly
       | compare themselves against unachievable standards on social
       | media. "The American Dream" is more illusionary than ever.
       | Everybody is a temporarily inconvenienced billionaire. This can
       | be positive when it produces a drive that builds things, but it
       | seems to mostly produce unhappiness right now because it's so out
       | of balance.
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | Yeah, these surveys seem to miss the cultural nuances. Totally
         | agree with your assessment.
        
         | codeulike wrote:
         | _the secret to these rankings is probably the calibration
         | inherent in the question. Finnish people just don't have high
         | expectations. Every positive development is a welcome
         | surprise._
         | 
         | Yes but that calibration is also the secret to happiness.
        
         | quickthrowman wrote:
         | > Finnish people just don't have high expectations. Every
         | positive development is a welcome surprise.
         | 
         | You're just covering up the real truth: Finnish happiness is a
         | result of everyone having access to a sauna :)
         | 
         | Mina rakastan loyly, haluan saunassa nyt!
         | 
         | (What I hope I said: 'I love throwing water on the sauna rocks
         | and the experience of the resulting steam, I want to go into a
         | sauna now')
         | 
         | --------------
         | 
         | On a more serious note, do you think the ever present threat of
         | Russia and obligatory military service affects the expectations
         | of Finnish people? Meaning, there is an actual tangible threat
         | bordering Finland, which last invaded just 86 years ago (and
         | forced Finland to ally with a country we won't name so they
         | would emerge from WWII independent, only Norway and Finland
         | managed to achieve that, every other European country bordering
         | the USSR was behind the iron curtain)
         | 
         | Do you think that keeps Finnish people's expectations more
         | grounded? Or is it something else entirely?
        
         | Barrin92 wrote:
         | >While the quality of life really is objectively better with
         | children, the secret to these rankings is probably the
         | calibration inherent in the question.
         | 
         | that's not really a secret or calibration issue though, that
         | gets to the core of what happiness is, a relational property
         | between expectation and reality. It's not an objective measure
         | like income or height.
         | 
         | I don't think the notion of an 'objective' quality of life even
         | makes a lot of sense. Quality of life is always measured
         | against some concrete alternative, not against some abstract
         | scale or points based system. Two people are going to have very
         | different attitudes towards some way of life purely depending
         | on what direction they come from.
        
         | jpgvm wrote:
         | All happiness is relative to expectation.
         | 
         | I have lived in Thailand for the last ~8yrs. It's unfortunate
         | not to see it on the list as I think generally speaking Thais
         | are much happier than either US (where I travel a lot for work)
         | or Australians (my home country).
         | 
         | A big chunk of that is the expectations, they don't need many
         | material things to enjoy life and place a much higher emphasis
         | on community and social standing (which isn't primarily derived
         | from material wealth). Your occupation in Thailand has a very
         | large impact on your social standing - more than the income you
         | derive from it. i.e doctors are extremely well respected,
         | however public doctors more so than private ones despite the
         | latter being more wealthy.
         | 
         | Sense of community is something that builds you up rather than
         | the Western trope of comparing yourself to your neighbour that
         | breaks you down.
         | 
         | That very simple difference seems to have an outsized impact on
         | how happy folk are here.
         | 
         | There are exceptions and Bangkok is much more Western but if
         | you live out in the country like me then Thailand is a very
         | happy place.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | While what you said may be true, it's also likely that (I
           | assume) being an expat you are generally living in large
           | urban areas and interacting with the top N% of the country in
           | terms of wealth and opportunity. Go a bit deeper and the
           | reality may be very different.
        
         | awalsh128 wrote:
         | As a US citizen I just want affordable healthcare, housing, and
         | a system that supports families. I think for the younger
         | generation where this isn't attainable it causes a lot of
         | unhappiness and leads to greater stressors. Also we are at a
         | big low with faith in our political system across the pillars
         | of government. I think for most of us we don't want it all, we
         | just want our basic needs met without worrying about losing
         | then tomorrow.
        
       | brap wrote:
       | Would be interesting to see happiness segmented by Democrats/
       | Republicans.
        
         | jsbisviewtiful wrote:
         | I would speculate Republicans are wildly happier when "their
         | team is 'winning'" and Democrats would have a boost in
         | happiness with Democrats in power, but nowhere near the swing
         | of Republicans. Democrats, IMO, are more aware of the *real*
         | current and longterm problems the US faces while Republicans
         | listen to whatever Republicans say the "problems" are -
         | "problems" that are too often very outlandish and not based in
         | reality.
        
           | brap wrote:
           | I agree that both probably swing depending on who' "winning",
           | although I bet that generally the Dems tend to be
           | significantly less happy and therefore swing less,
           | relatively.
        
           | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
           | As someone who leans left. I doubt too many Democrats were
           | excited about Biden. He was just "not Trump". People actually
           | liked Obama and Clinton.
        
             | jacobolus wrote:
             | Taking political constraints into account, the Biden
             | Administration was just about the most successful and
             | effective, in policy terms, of the past 50 years.
             | Unfortunately the political landscape is pretty
             | unfavorable, with GOP-supportive media, courts, and
             | plutocrats.
             | 
             | Unfortunately building and fixing things takes a lot of
             | time and work, and doesn't make great soundbites.
        
           | gdulli wrote:
           | And the things they're mad about won't go away. Social change
           | doesn't stop. Gay and trans people are not going back in the
           | closet. Republicans consistently win on the economy and lose
           | on social progress. But only the rich benefit from the
           | former. The typical poor/middle class Republican life doesn't
           | get better just because a bathroom bill passes, the source of
           | their fear is still extant and used to keep them afraid.
        
           | pixelready wrote:
           | I suspect the results would be skewed significantly by
           | whether or not the questions asked seemed overtly political
           | in nature. If you probe people in general quality of life
           | measures and carefully avoid loaded language, you'd likely
           | find both sides are suffering in the US in real terms due to
           | cost of living and loneliness crises. These are trends that
           | have been prevailing since at least the 80s and were
           | accelerated by mass media and the Internet.
           | 
           | But tribal loyalty is a powerful force, so as soon as the
           | questions or questioner appears partisan in any way, people
           | form ranks for "their side" and you'd be hard pressed to get
           | an honest response, least of all one that reflects badly on
           | their team at the helm.
        
         | retrocog wrote:
         | If our happiness is connected to political party affiliation,
         | we're in big trouble. The actual party doesn't matter. The true
         | hallmark of totalitarianism is when every aspect of civil
         | society is politicized.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _true hallmark of totalitarianism is when every aspect of
           | civil society is politicized_
           | 
           | No? The true hallmarks of totalitarianism are a lack of
           | political competition (usually due to repression) and the
           | state controlling "all aspects of society, including the
           | family, religion, education, business, private property, and
           | social relationships" [1].
           | 
           | Ancient Athens was a famously political society. It was not
           | totalitarian.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
        
         | bitlax wrote:
         | Conservatives outperform liberals in self-reported happiness
         | and mental health when controlling for demographics.
        
         | Braxton1980 wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | snickerbockers wrote:
       | What was it that happened between 2023 and 2024? Here's all i can
       | think of but none of these really explain it:
       | 
       | * Major terrorist attack in israel; its obvious we care way too
       | much about this random country on the other side of the planet
       | but even so i can't see that impacting people's happiness this
       | hard.
       | 
       | * general populace now knows LLMs exist and may someday
       | potentially perform jobs which were previously thought to be
       | immune to automation but i would expect this to be offset by the
       | people amazed by this technology.
       | 
       | * It's becoming increasingly apparent that our then-current
       | president might actually suffer from a more serious case of
       | Alzheimer's than reagan did; simultaneously it is becoming
       | increasingly apparent that the only viable alternative is going
       | to be trump again.
       | 
       | #3 is the only one that sort-of makes sense but I have doubts
       | that people are this invested in presidential circuses on a
       | personal level.
        
         | ajkjk wrote:
         | wait, is your point that there is some mystery about what
         | happened to make the US even less happy? ... what didn't
         | happen? It's hard to think of anything good that has happened
         | in the last few years. Every month is scarier and more
         | uncertain than the last.
        
           | snickerbockers wrote:
           | i mean specifically between '23 and '24, i don't remember
           | much happening on the national level then. COVID's been in
           | the background for a few years and trump hasn't been re-
           | elected yet.
        
         | georgemcbay wrote:
         | As an older person (52 y/o) who remembers a time when a lot
         | more people I know (of all ages) were optimistic about the
         | future, I believe the major factor leading to generalized
         | anxiety currently is not about one event, but all the additive
         | effects of massive and ever increasing wealth inequality piling
         | up year over year.
         | 
         | That combined with little to no hope that either political
         | party will do a damn thing to fix it (Democrats at least have
         | some politicians who actually want to, but they are stymied by
         | their own leadership, never mind the problem of not having any
         | real national level political power currently).
        
           | pesus wrote:
           | Agreed. Even as someone only on the tail end of the
           | millennial generation, the total disappearance of hope in the
           | past 10-15 years (but especially in the last 5) has been
           | palpable. There's a tweet that's been floating around
           | recently that says something along the lines of "basically
           | nobody under 40 expects good things to happen ever again",
           | and I think that sums it up pretty accurately.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | I believe that these self-reported surveys are partly testing the
       | cultural acceptability of complaining--that is, the more
       | unacceptable it is to complain, the happier one comes out in the
       | scoring. How well that corresponds to 'actual' happiness is, of
       | course, a different question.
       | 
       | I base this on experience with some of the 'happy' cultures on
       | the list. However, I would be interested in knowing whether HN
       | members from Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, and the
       | Netherlands (to name the top 5) agree with this concept or not.
        
         | lossolo wrote:
         | There are cultural differences, but once you have the baseline,
         | I think the delta is more interesting, so how happiness has
         | changed in a country throughout the years.
        
         | 7952 wrote:
         | I guess a cultural willingness to complain could also have a
         | feedback effect on the 'actual' happiness.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Exactly. This is like saying "the people aren't unhappy, they
           | just think they are unhappy". Well if they think they are
           | unhappy then they are unhappy.
        
         | Herring wrote:
         | Yes it has nothing to do with healthcare, education, work-life
         | balance etc. Must be something else.
        
           | timeon wrote:
           | and commuting, not sure if nerd-snipping with Waymo is going
           | to help here.
        
             | falcor84 wrote:
             | How does nerd-sniping with Waymo work? Is it about nerd-
             | sniping a person so they get hit by a Waymo, or is it about
             | nerd-sniping the Waymo itself, distracting it before having
             | a human hit it?
             | 
             | D'oh, I think I got nerd-sniped there for a second.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | Plenty of eastern European countries on that list above US, so
         | your theory has no real basis.
        
         | analog8374 wrote:
         | You buried your thesis statement.
         | 
         | "US is not actually unhappy. The survey is broken" or somesuch.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | It is obvious to anybody who has ever been to the Nordic
         | countries: They are far from being the happiest people in the
         | world. A lot of them are very miserable, for reasons that I
         | could never deduce.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | Is it? As someone from Norway, who has spent plenty of time
           | in the other Nordic countries, I'd disagree strongly. We'll
           | complain a lot. Until you ask us to actually rank how happy
           | we are with our lives.
           | 
           | If you base you impression on what people are saying without
           | explicitly asking _how happy they are with their lives_ ,
           | then you're getting an impression that's biased by almost an
           | eagerness to complain, despite at the end of the day
           | generally being very satisfied.
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | You're disagreeing with yourself. Somebody who complains a
             | lot and in other ways shows how miserable they are does not
             | become happy by saying they are happy. You can maybe lie to
             | yourself that you are happy, but you can't fool others.
             | Although Norwegians and Danes are generally happier than
             | Finns and Swedes.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | I'm Norwegian, and we're down to 7th place, but I've lived half
         | my life in the UK, and I can tell you that Norwegians will
         | complain just as much as people in the UK, if not far more
         | whenever I visit family.
         | 
         | It's the national sport. In fact, if you tell most Norwegians
         | about coming 7th on a World Happiness ranking, odds are high
         | most of us will complain loudly about that too, thinking we
         | deserve a higher spot, and that there's no ways the Finns and
         | especially Swedes can be higher than us on the list (being
         | beaten by the Danes is okay).
         | 
         | In other words, I don't think this matches cultural
         | acceptability of complaining _at all_. Norwegians will express
         | dissatisfaction loudly and about everything (don 't get a
         | Norwegian started on the quality of the roads, or taxes; at the
         | same time, don't get a majority of Norwegians started on
         | "American conditions" or the political parties that might bring
         | them about by lowering taxes), while still generally living
         | pretty great lives.
        
         | crockeo wrote:
         | Half Dutch half American. I find the Dutch complain a decent
         | bit more, but I find that there is more to complain about in
         | the States. Maar wat is het leven zonder klagen?
         | 
         | One thing I've noticed being back recently: cost of living has
         | gotten very unaffordable in Amsterdam the last time I was back.
         | Cost of basic goods is on par with what I'm used to paying in
         | major American cities, but my Dutch relatives often earn a
         | decent bit less. I wonder if this will affect Dutch happiness
         | in future surveys once affordability exceeds more and more
         | people's earnings.
        
       | brap wrote:
       | For some grounding, I would like to see how many US citizens
       | migrate to those happy countries vs how many happy citizens
       | migrate to the US.
       | 
       | Actions speak louder.
        
         | BobbyJo wrote:
         | Almost no one from North Korea emigrates to the US. Conclusion:
         | North Koreans are _very_ happy.
        
           | mothballed wrote:
           | I would genuinely be shocked if North Korean's aren't happy.
           | They're basically told they live in the best place on earth,
           | have no basis for comparison to believe otherwise, and the
           | sphere of influence of any particular average N Korean is
           | narrow enough that if they were sad it would basically be
           | artificially constraining their sadness to ones about
           | personal failures they probably would rather not believe they
           | have.
           | 
           | It's not starving, not having healthcare etc that makes you
           | sad so much I think as thinking others are getting it while
           | you are not, or believing that someone is pulling something
           | over you rather than the situation being in your hands. If
           | you think you're doing the best you can and your own success
           | or failure is up to you, it's hard to be particularly sad
           | about the situation compared to someone in another position.
        
             | wanderingstan wrote:
             | Citation is needed for this:
             | 
             | > It's not starving, not having healthcare etc that makes
             | you sad so much I think as thinking others are getting it
             | while you are not...
             | 
             | While social comparison is proven to be _part_ of
             | happiness, the science is quite strong that starving or
             | being sick makes someone unhappy.
        
           | brap wrote:
           | No need for the snark, it's very obviously a flawed heuristic
           | which can obviously be improved with some adjustments. But
           | this isn't meant to be a research proposal. It was a simple
           | example meant to illustrate a simple point.
           | 
           | Point being, some people like to whine even when they know
           | damn well 99% of the world would happily trade places with
           | them, and for very good reasons.
        
             | BobbyJo wrote:
             | Wasn't intending snark. I figured it was a goofy way to
             | point out the flaw in your implicit position that
             | emigration data would be more meaningful than the survey.
             | It still might be, it would just depend a lot more on laws
             | and the marketing of economic opportunities than happiness
             | IMO.
             | 
             | > Point being, some people like to whine even when they
             | know damn well 99% of the world would happily trade places
             | with them, and for very good reasons.
             | 
             | Well yeah, but this is an broad survey, not people whining.
        
             | nielsbot wrote:
             | > some people like to whine
             | 
             | When I say our for-profit healthcare system is cruel,
             | expensive and ineffective overall, am I whining?
             | 
             | When I say it sucks that we spend $1T on "defense" while
             | raising taxes on working class people, is that whining?
        
             | nielsbot wrote:
             | > some people like to whine
             | 
             | When I say our for-profit healthcare system is cruel,
             | expensive and ineffective overall, am I whining?
             | 
             | When I say it sucks that we spend $1T on "defense" while
             | raising taxes on working class people, is that whining?
             | 
             | Those things make people less happy.
             | 
             | Is your diagnosis the people are whining and that's why the
             | US isn't at the top of the rankings like Denmark is? Do
             | Danes just whine less?
             | 
             | I want to share one of my favorite quotes which is apt:
             | 
             | "I love America more than any other country in the world
             | and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to
             | criticize her perpetually." -- James Baldwin
        
           | pinkmuffinere wrote:
           | I agree with your larger point, but to be fair if you have to
           | compare the U.S. to North Korea, that's probably a bad sign.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Yeah homeless drug addicts living on the streets of San
         | Francisco aren't all migrating to Denmark so they must be
         | happy.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | Is this coping attempt?
        
         | nielsbot wrote:
         | People don't simply emigrate when conditions are bad or even
         | horrible.
         | 
         | There are many barriers which can be almost impossible to
         | surmount: learning a new language, leaving your friends behind,
         | having to finding a job (what if you don't speak the language),
         | having to sell you house and car, etc.
        
         | theuiufvbu46764 wrote:
         | Spoken like a true American.
         | 
         | Americans are so drunk on the liberalism kool-aid that they
         | think they can just relocate and instantly be accepted into new
         | communities.
         | 
         | (This doesn't work)
        
       | toephu2 wrote:
       | Interesting that Mexico is much higher than the U.S.! I could
       | believe it though.
        
       | analog8374 wrote:
       | Blow off your credit card payments. It's the only sane course.
        
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