[HN Gopher] Austria hails 'brain gain' in luring 25 academics aw...
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Austria hails 'brain gain' in luring 25 academics away from US
after cuts
Author : c420
Score : 125 points
Date : 2025-09-25 16:58 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| constantcrying wrote:
| How is 25 American takings jobs in Austria newsworthy?
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| Not an academic so there could be some context I don't know but
| upon reading it it's even worse, grants for 2 years, looks more
| like a secondment than a coup.
| hluska wrote:
| According to primary sources, the program is actually for
| four years. The press release stated 48 months but that got
| printed in Reuters as two years.
| htk wrote:
| Because it's a reason to bash Trump.
|
| Trump gives plenty of reasons to be bashed, but this news
| article seems like a stretch.
| sherr wrote:
| Taking a less cynical view, it's just successful Austrian PR.
| htk wrote:
| It's right in the first paragraph:
|
| "Austria has lured what it calls 25 "top researchers" away
| from U.S. institutions including Harvard, the Massachusetts
| Institute of Technology and Princeton with grants set up in
| response to the Trump administration's funding cuts
| targeting universities."
| throwacct wrote:
| This article is missing key info. Which research areas
| are we talking about?
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| > Recipients of the grants of 500,000 euros ($587,000)
| each over two years range from post-doctoral researchers
| to professors and work in fields such as physics,
| chemistry and life sciences, the Austrian Academy of
| Sciences said in a statement on Thursday.
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Need to start somewhere. In 2024 how many researchers did the
| same?
| devin wrote:
| On its own it isn't, but I suspect if all of these were
| reported you might think it quite significant.
| constantcrying wrote:
| Why do they not make an actual story out of this, do some
| research and publish whether there was some unusually high
| outflow of academics over the last two years?
|
| 25 people can not be an indication of anything. Academics
| especially are moving around often and take up work in
| different countries.
| foxglacier wrote:
| Either it's too hard or it would show a nothing-burger.
| Anecdotes are better for spreading misinformation when
| you're constrained by being factual.
| hluska wrote:
| Can you point out the misinformation?
| hluska wrote:
| This Reuters article is based on a press release that was
| issued earlier today. The type of research you're proposing
| would take weeks to be done, written and edited.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| These are researchers from Harvard, Princeton, and MIT.
| Sometimes there are only a handful of people worldwide in a
| particular field doing top level research.
| constantcrying wrote:
| And sometimes there are tens of thousands or these fields
| are tiny for a reason.
| add-sub-mul-div wrote:
| A nation doing a 180 from its longstanding strategy of gaining
| talent to pushing away talent is newsworthy. But it's easy to
| overlook without reporting on tangible examples.
| constantcrying wrote:
| Academics move around countries all the time for many
| reasons. It is ridiculous to assume that _25_ people moving
| to different work places is any indication of a "shift in
| strategy".
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| It's an example of the _result_ of the shift in strategy.
| The shift in strategy has been widely reported elsewhere,
| and we are already well aware of it.
| x0x0 wrote:
| Not many people walk away from Harvard, MIT, Princeton, etc. If
| you had tenure there (a big if, since the article is unclear),
| or even were tenure track, that was viewed as one of the most
| prestigious and desirable jobs in the world.
|
| 25 people leaving is a sea change.
| constantcrying wrote:
| >25 people leaving is a sea change.
|
| 25 Academics leaving is not "sea change".
|
| >If you had tenure there (a big if, since the article is
| unclear), or even were tenure track, that was viewed as one
| of the most prestigious and desirable jobs in the world.
|
| Some _very_ major ifs there.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| For numbers, it's nearly 1% of all post-docs (~3400) in
| those three universities, leaving at once, to a single
| destination. You can do the math. It's a fact that the USA
| used to _attract_ this talent, not export it.
| araes wrote:
| Because it gets a lot of response, there's a lot of traction,
| many with positive sentiment, support, and "take me with you"
| equivalents.
|
| Because its a sign significant numbers of people, institutions,
| disciplines, and demographics are thinking that way. In stock
| market terminology it would be a signal to investors.
|
| Thread on Reddit 1mo ago about biotechnologist Wali Malik
| leaving his lab in Boston developing mass testing of active
| ingredients for pharmaceuticals got a decent amount of
| visibility. Also mentions the APART-USA grants.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1mzlk04/us_rese...
| constantcrying wrote:
| >Because its a sign significant numbers of people,
| institutions, disciplines, and demographics are thinking that
| way. In stock market terminology it would be a signal to
| investors.
|
| How is something incredibly common a signal for anything?
| Academics move to other countries all the time.
| vor_ wrote:
| That's a very reductionist way to describe it. According to the
| article, these are key researchers from some of America's most
| prestigious universities.
| unixhero wrote:
| Austria is a really wonderful place to live as well. Food, bakery
| traditions, beer traditions, world class skiing.
| jancsika wrote:
| They could make it an even 26 by the end of the night if they
| play their cards right.
|
| _bats eyelashes, casually implements b-tree_
| hluska wrote:
| I think you can safely hold off on the eyelash batting for a
| few months. There were only 25 fellowships available,
| applications opened on July 4th and all have been awarded. This
| page on the program will tell you more:
|
| https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa
| arunbahl wrote:
| As a startup that chose to locate in Canada, we've already had a
| dozen amazing candidates currently in the US reach out and apply
| for roles since we shared our thinking earlier this week [0].
|
| The feeling of ambient immigration hostility in the US (even
| beyond any one specific policy) is palpable.
|
| 0: https://aloe.inc/blog/the-best-talent-in-the-world
| klipt wrote:
| Canada seems to be entering its own anti immigrant phase
| though, especially against South Asian immigrants
|
| https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/hate-toward-south-asia...
| locallost wrote:
| I was hoping the EU can capitalize on this, but remain skeptical
| as the EU politicians have noticed what kind of rhetoric is
| successful and are starting to bang the same drum louder and
| louder. Being anti immigration one of the main ideas. We'll see.
| My bet is China will be the big winner.
| mr90210 wrote:
| This has been my observation living in the EU.
|
| Two regions that have been capitalising from skilled
| programmers and that hardly anyone talks about are the UAE and
| Saudi Arabia.
| karmakurtisaani wrote:
| They are in an excellent position to capitalize on the
| situation: deep pockets and a shady reputation that has kept
| competition low, so they should have plenty of open position.
| alecco wrote:
| Recently the EU allocated billions to fund tech startups. But
| if you read the _bare minimum_ demands, you 'll see how
| suspicious it is. Like, you _have_ to have a _female co-
| founder_ , when everybody in the trade knows it's very hard to
| find a trustworthy co-founder of _any_ kind.
|
| I haven't heard of anybody getting these funds. I suspect the
| recipients were pre-selected before the announcement and the
| criteria was tailored to match them. And I also suspect, in
| some roundabout way, part of the money will end up in political
| campaigns or something.
| bee_rider wrote:
| How would you hear of somebody getting these funds? I don't
| personally know anybody who's gotten massive VC funding in
| the US either, but I think it does happen.
|
| I don't see any reason to be skeptical of the requirement to
| find a female co-founder, I mean it is clearly a program to
| promote equality, but that is an uncontroversial goal in some
| places.
| klipt wrote:
| Suspicious that the EU claims to "promote gender equality"
| while turning a blind eye to the male only conscription
| perpetrated by EU members Austria, Finland, etc
| em-bee wrote:
| _it 's very hard to find a trustworthy co-founder of any
| kind_
|
| that may be so, but did you check if the funding is limited
| to teams with at least two or more people? some funds do not
| allow single founders at all for whatever reason.
| jacquesm wrote:
| > My bet is China will be the big winner.
|
| Because China is so much more immigration and foreigner
| friendly?
| netsharc wrote:
| How about the opposite: the "great again" USA is very
| unwelcoming, that Chinese citizens who were attracted to the
| freedoms it once offered (a different flavour of freedom
| compared to the one Trump is currently offering) might now
| think "Sheesh, maybe let's not try to migrate to the USA and
| start a life there!".
| locallost wrote:
| I don't know, personally never went there. But it doesn't
| seem to be throwing out babies with the bath water, as
| currently the case in the US. What their immigration policies
| are in general I don't know, but they are a knowledge hungry
| worldpower, and we are talking about scientists here. And as
| for the EU, my concern remains, there are way too many Trump
| copycats, and it's difficult to trust it will not go down the
| same road. The problems and root causes are similar. If I
| didn't have kids I would've left Germany for sure by now.
| jacquesm wrote:
| > And as for the EU, my concern remains, there are way too
| many Trump copycats
|
| Fully agreed on that one.
| Herring wrote:
| China can turn on a dime. And they smell blood.
|
| https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-entry-exit-k-
| visa...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC8f1qs3TGs
|
| Give it 5-10 years and the situation could look very
| different. If they decide to pour tons of money into it, they
| could dominate like with trains or solar.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I would never invest time, money or my life into a country
| without a functioning legal system. In a country where the
| likes of Jack Ma are not safe nobody is safe.
| Herring wrote:
| 71% of H1Bs are Indian. They might feel differently,
| especially after looking at ICE.
|
| Personally I prefer looking at the average case:
| http://data.worldhappiness.report/chart
|
| China still has lots of ground to make up, but they're
| headed in the right direction. Needless to say, the US
| isn't.
| thisisit wrote:
| You do realise Chinese form a large immigrant population in
| the US, right?
|
| And as much as I dislike saying this - Chinese government
| doesn't want you talking about politics. Otherwise you should
| be mostly fine.
|
| While US government is going beyond politics. Pushing stuff
| like that autism and Tylenol connection on correlation study.
| That is going beyond politics and impacting academic and
| scientific analysis.
| jacquesm wrote:
| > You do realise Chinese form a large immigrant population
| in the US, right?
|
| Did I say anything that made you think otherwise, right?
|
| > And as much as I dislike saying this - Chinese government
| doesn't want you talking about politics. Otherwise you
| should be mostly fine.
|
| Ahhh too bad then, because one of the things that I really
| like about the societies that I'd bet my
| life/money/health/other resources on is that I want to be
| able to talk about politics. Otherwise, what's the point,
| all you are doing is lining some dictator's pocket.
|
| > While US government is going beyond politics. Pushing
| stuff like that autism and Tylenol connection on
| correlation study. That is going beyond politics and
| impacting academic and scientific analysis.
|
| Yes, the US is _also_ on a bad path. But so is China. And
| they too push plenty of bullshit. How is that Tianmen
| Square investigation coming along?
| maxglute wrote:
| Because PRC is returning sea turtle / talented diasphora
| friendly and there's a fuckload of talented PRC born
| diasphora abroad who frankly has to self censor under
| mccarthy free speech anyways.
| t-3 wrote:
| China can benefit in the short-term if talent moves there, but
| it's very difficult to gain citizenship in China if you're not
| ethnically Chinese. That probably won't matter for people just
| moving for work, but those looking for a better life for their
| children or a home would likely consider it a blocker.
| klipt wrote:
| There are millions of overseas Chinese descendants who
| already speak Chinese and are wholly or partly ethnically
| Chinese. That would be an easy pool to draw from first.
|
| For example Terence Tao speaks Cantonese.
| m-hodges wrote:
| I'm currently reading a biography of Kurt Godel1 and the first 60
| pages are about Austria's authoritarian-driven brain drain almost
| 100 years ago.
|
| 1 https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Edge-Reason-Life-G%C3%B6del/d...
| IIAOPSW wrote:
| Kurt Godel rather famously claimed to have spotted logical
| contradictions in the US constitution, which of course is not
| too controversial on its own (and was probably right given who
| he is), but presenting this argument in response to questions
| about the constitution that were given as part of his
| citizenship test was an insane thing to try no matter how good
| his logic.
|
| Amazingly he still passed.
| m-hodges wrote:
| Einstein talked him out of presenting it. Recent HN
| conversation on it:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44812159
| charliebwrites wrote:
| Austria, and Vienna in particular has always held a special place
| in my heart
|
| Do we know if they have programs like this for high skill tech
| workers or is it just PhDs at this point?
| gmueckl wrote:
| The article doesn't go into details whether these academics are
| full professors or e.g. postdocs. Twenty-five tenured professors
| would be a big deal because they tend to either bring their
| workgroups along or rebuild them at the new university. That's
| where the true impact of such news lies if these are indeed
| teachers: these groups produce a steady stream of future experts
| in the form of graduates and PhDs in their respective domains.
| Given the timelines for careers of students and young academics,
| the full impact of these moves should start to show in about 5 to
| 10 years.
| the_snooze wrote:
| Another factor is if they're all from the same (sub)discipline.
| It doesn't take a lot of established researchers moving to
| shift a field's center of gravity somewhere else. When you
| start seeing research conferences that used to be in the US be
| held elsewhere instead, you'll know that the change has
| happened.
| Yoric wrote:
| I'm on a researcher mailing-list discussing exactly this at
| the moment.
|
| For the moment, the main argument for keeping some
| conferences within the US is the number of researchers
| (typically PhDs and postdocs) who couldn't attend then re-
| enter the US.
|
| We'll see how that goes.
| threecheese wrote:
| I follow a few Australian folks on social media, and it was
| really surprising to see how much of an Asian/Chinese influence
| there is. Asian flavors, signage, brands, even slang. It's a
| departure from American cultural hegemony that I (as an American)
| just did not expect.
|
| After wrongly thinking for my entire life that Aussies were
| basically American cowboys plus crocodiles, I now see news like
| this as just part of a feedback loop of accelerating loss of
| global influence - or more accurate, transfer of influence. Coca
| Cola --> Lychee.
| tptacek wrote:
| This is a story about Austria.
| b_e_n_t_o_n wrote:
| Not gonna lie I also read it as Australia....
| jawilson2 wrote:
| I think it is the "Austria hails..." The extra ia/ai in
| there is throwing off our brains. I had to read it a few
| times before it stuck.
| em-bee wrote:
| don't worry, austrians get that all the time. i always have
| to point out that i am talking about the one in europe,
| next to germany, before it clicks with people
| summarity wrote:
| Mozart not Kangaroos
| arduanika wrote:
| Waltzing Johann Strauss, not Matilda
| guywithahat wrote:
| I wish it said more about what these researchers did, other than
| they were the result of cuts to things like trans policies and
| opposition to Palestine protests. It would be interesting to see
| if these are semiconductor researchers or gender studies.
| tptacek wrote:
| Even if they were full professors, 25 seems like a literal drop
| in the bucket. There are 187 R1 universities in the US.
| Competition for professorships is so intense that a lot of people
| look at grad school as a sucker's bet. I'm happy for these people
| and for Austria, but I don't see a real news story here.
| Bhilai wrote:
| drop by drop, thats how a bucket fills.
| hollerith wrote:
| OK, but I want to read news stories about the state of the
| bucket, not about 25 of the drops.
| the_snooze wrote:
| The thing is that professors and research groups aren't
| fungible. Each one that moves represents a nontrivial loss in
| expertise for the US in some field. There are only so many
| groups doing basic research into materials science for
| microelectronics, for example---certainly not at all 187 R1
| universities. But something like that is a strategic asset for
| the US, to the point that there's a DARPA office specifically
| to fund that work (https://www.darpa.mil/about/offices/mto).
| tptacek wrote:
| Sure. It can be a meaningful story, I just often find myself
| wanting to see threads grounded in what the denominator is
| for the headline number.
| Yoric wrote:
| True.
|
| What is meaningful, I suspect, is that this reverses the usual
| direction of brain drain. If this is not a fluke and that
| reversal gets consolidated, yeah, that's really bad for the US.
| Alongside the $100.000 H1B, there is a chance that this could
| durably shift Silicon Valley-style creativity outside of the
| US.
| FergusArgyll wrote:
| https://www.univie.ac.at/aktuelles/detail/sechs-us-forscheri...
|
| Has some names. Only had patience to check the first one.
| Visiting Assistant Professor of Global Premodern Art History at
| the Ohio State University. Happy for him, wish Austria the best
| of luck...
| hatmatrix wrote:
| Regardless of institution, there is a fierce debate of whether
| this is the right strategy after all - there are many
| _excellent_ postdocs and scientists already in Europe waiting
| for faculty openings. Why not open these new positions to all
| candidates?
| somenameforme wrote:
| The article mentions paying them $587,000 each over 2 years. It
| also mentions at least some of the recruits were post-docs who
| average pay in the US is like $60k. If this is what brain drain
| is, where can I sign up?
| zaptheimpaler wrote:
| I think a grant includes money for all expenses - experiments,
| equipment, salary for all staff not just the post-doc etc.
| araes wrote:
| OAW Article on the Subject:
| https://www.oeaw.ac.at/en/news/harvard-princeton-
| mit-25-top-...
|
| OAW Call for Nominations:
| https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa
|
| OAW APART-USA Info:
| https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-
| usa/apart... > "The APART-USA fellowship is
| granted for a period of 48 months and must be commenced
| within six months of notification of the grant." > "The
| APART-USA fellowship amounts to a total of EUR 500,000. 25%
| of this funding (in total: EUR 125,000) comes from the
| nominating host research institution. 75% (EUR 375,000) comes
| from the Fonds Zukunft Osterreich (FZO) of the National
| Foundation for Research, Technology and Development (NFTE)."
| > "funding can be extended by up to three months at no extra
| cost." > "The fellowship covers personnel costs as well
| as costs for relocation, travel, materials and other costs
| (such as mentoring, training, etc.)."
|
| OAW = Osterreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften = Austrian
| Academy of Sciences
| kelipso wrote:
| I don't know if this includes starting research budget but
| if it does, it's a very modest offer for top researchers.
| Starting research budget offered by R1 universities in the
| US can be millions of dollars for top researchers (in CS
| but that's all I know about), before they need to get
| funding on their own. I guess it would be good for
| researchers who lost all of their funding.
| mgh2 wrote:
| https://archive.is/rGDNX
| jmclnx wrote:
| I hope Austria Colleges who made out sends Trump a nice Thank
| Your Card and maybe a gift certificate to McDonalds :)
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