[HN Gopher] Resurrect the Old Web
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Resurrect the Old Web
        
       Author : speckx
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2025-09-25 12:48 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stevedylandev.bearblog.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stevedylandev.bearblog.dev)
        
       | wiether wrote:
       | I don't get HN's appeal for the bearblog platform?
       | 
       | If anything else, if one wants to resurrect the "Old Web", one
       | shouldn't do it on someone else's platform.
       | 
       | Parts of the "Old Web" disappeared when the platforms hosting it
       | stopped.
       | 
       | The brutal shutting down of Typepad should be another reminder of
       | this reality: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/08/one-time-
       | wordpress-c...
        
         | HermanMartinus wrote:
         | Creator of Bear here. Suggesting that because one project
         | fails, others will too is a bit of a fallacy. Fact is that
         | whether you self-host or not, you're still using someone else's
         | platform (unless you're a _real_ self-hoster with a box in your
         | closet, in which case, good on you and godspeed).
         | 
         | I think as long as platforms have an easy way for people to
         | backup and migrate, that's fair.
         | 
         | Additionally, part of the appeal of Bear is that I've made it
         | my personal mission to get the platform to outlive me. Take
         | that as you will. I can't prove that Bear will live on in
         | perpetuity, but I can try my best.
        
           | NetOpWibby wrote:
           | I don't use Bear but bless you for building it the way you
           | are. Not everyone has development skills to do it themselves
           | so it's up to us coders and programmers to build these tools.
        
           | wiether wrote:
           | Thank you for taking your time to reply to my comment.
           | 
           | I want to clarify one thing first: I don't have anything
           | special against your platform, it's just that it seems I see
           | at least one article a week about it on HN lastly and I'm
           | wondering why.
           | 
           | I'm sure you are well intentionned and you'll do your best to
           | keep the plaftorm as true to the mission you have chosen to
           | take and described in your manifesto, no doubt about it.
           | 
           | But having been through a certain number of hype cycles
           | around tech, I tend to become suspicious when I see too much
           | people pushing something. That's why I understand people
           | complaining about Kagi's omnipresence here, even though I'm
           | totaly on the hype train here.
           | 
           | Furthermore, the article looks like a promotion for the
           | platform. It probably isn't, and you don't control what
           | people publish, so it's not your fault. Yet, it reads like
           | "bearblog is the solution to "Resurrect the Old Web".
           | 
           | Which, to me, can't be, since it's a platform like the
           | hundreds that previously came and went, no matter their
           | creator's promise.
           | 
           | So, sure, bearblog exists, it offers people a way to publish
           | content in an _old fashioned_ way, and, according to its
           | manifesto, it will stay like this as long as it exists. Which
           | is nice. And can be part of a solution, but it's not the
           | solution. I don't think there is, actually.
        
             | mallowdram wrote:
             | Tech is stuck behind the symbolic threshold. We're at the
             | point we use the symbolic, which is arbitrary, for
             | literally everything as a substitute, mimic, representation
             | that's in reality. Eventually the symbolic eats itself
             | alive in arbitrariness and society capitalizing on that
             | arbitrariness. This is basic stuff CS doesn't make itself
             | aware of.
             | 
             | We're at the end of communication in this symbolic era. You
             | can see it in politics, climate policy, fiscal policy,
             | trade policy, media, everything is at an end-point or a
             | breaking point.
             | 
             | So lacking an awareness of the end-game for the symbolic,
             | we retreat to an easier, earlier state, which is nostalgic.
             | But its nostalgia for a system already on the way out.
        
               | rambambram wrote:
               | Interesting. Got a blog where I can read more about this?
        
               | mallowdram wrote:
               | Glad you asked
               | 
               | We don't blog about it in our team since this is about a
               | post-symbolic era, which has some proprietary elements.
               | 
               | But we keep two with papers active exploring the ideas
               | with updated citations.
               | 
               | I stumbled across this whole dimension of arbitrariness
               | in the aftermath of a successful game which the users
               | took as non-narrative. And it really began when my
               | favorite teacher asked if I knew how illusory symbols
               | were and handed me a book called Brain, Symbol,
               | Experience: Towards a Neurophenomenology of Human
               | Consciousness. From there the threads led in all
               | directions.
               | 
               | Words as arbitrary control.
               | 
               | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cXtU97SCjxaHCrf8UVeQG
               | Yaj...
               | 
               | Storytelling as arbitrary control.
               | 
               | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d-ODky2MzGuTCoFCKWPw6
               | Jx2...
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | > I think as long as platforms have an easy way for people to
           | backup and migrate, that's fair.
           | 
           | Once one sees how much of the current tech-economy relies on
           | lock-in and switching-costs, it's hard to unsee.
        
           | dcreater wrote:
           | But isnt it structurally superior to not need platforms like
           | bearblog, substack, medium etc.?
           | 
           | Deploying an astro blog template to netlify is literally
           | 1-click. An instantenously superior option if you dont want
           | to host/pay/code yourself.
        
         | Y-bar wrote:
         | The Old Web also happened on someone else's platform, back in
         | the day hosting your site on Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod and
         | their likes where huge. The old web was to me about people
         | publishing whatever for whatever reason, especially amateurs
         | and persons. That web has to me been pushed aside for the
         | benefit of the gain-market-and-profit-from-everything crowd.
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | Why did the old web die?
           | 
           | I'm a HN Heretic. HN says dark patterns, money, power,
           | corporate interests.
           | 
           | I think it was very simple: Proprietary platforms solve real-
           | world problems the more "open" web doesn't and did not
           | effectively solve: discoverability, spam filtering, content
           | filtering, community. Regular people don't want the open web,
           | and _never have._ They only tolerated it when it was given to
           | them without alternatives.
        
             | nativeit wrote:
             | Proprietary platform solve all the problems you cite for
             | exactly as long as it remains profitable to do so, and not
             | a nanosecond longer. Once you've been captured, say goodbye
             | to every one of those things.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | That's not new; it's been happening all the way back
               | since AOL. AOL was basically an abstraction layer over
               | the whole internet that we tolerated (remember when every
               | show had both a URL and an AOL keyword?), but it broke
               | like anything can.
               | 
               | For that matter, your maxim also applies to the open
               | internet, and watch what's happening. It's not
               | profitable, so sites are packing up.
               | 
               | In a nutshell, content costs money. People make content
               | anticipating money. Doesn't matter if it's on Discord, on
               | YouTube, or a private blog. No money, no investment.
        
             | cosmicgadget wrote:
             | Also it is easier to publish to a walled platform than the
             | open web.
        
           | giantrobot wrote:
           | > The Old Web also happened on someone else's platform, back
           | in the day hosting your site on Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod
           | and their likes where huge.
           | 
           | Let's not forget ISPs and schools offering hosting.
           | Universities even used to let students and faculty have
           | routable IPs and DNS entries on the school's domain.
        
           | nativeit wrote:
           | I graduated from Geocities/Angelfire in a year or less,
           | learned HTML, and designed my first website on a traditional
           | shared hosting plan with hypermart.net. From there, obv. I
           | could easily go anywhere, as there wasn't anything
           | particularly special or proprietary keeping me there. I wrote
           | HTML in notepad, and FTP'd those files to my host. There's
           | nothing to stop people from doing this today.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > someone else's platform
         | 
         | > Parts of the "Old Web" disappeared when the platforms hosting
         | it stopped.
         | 
         | The key is to put everything under our own domains. This turns
         | the platforms hosting it into mere implementation details. If
         | the host goes down, just move the data elsewhere.
         | 
         | I use GitHub Pages for my static site but I could trivially
         | move everything to Cloudflare Pages if needed. I could also pay
         | for a VPS or make my own server somehow. Moving away from gmail
         | to my own domain was also one of the best things I've ever
         | done. I'm a happy Proton Mail customer now but that's just an
         | implementation detail, I could switch by simply reconfiguring
         | DNS to point to new mail servers.
         | 
         | DNS is the ultimate layer of indirection. We must own the
         | domain. If we don't have a domain, then we're just digital
         | serfs in someone else's digital fiefdom.
         | 
         | And that includes sites such as this one. Make it yourname.com,
         | not ycombinator.com/threads?id=yourname.
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | _No ads_
       | 
       | I don't know what "Old Web" the author is remembering but when I
       | was first paid to make a website in 1997, it had banner ads on
       | it.
        
         | davey48016 wrote:
         | Banner ads, pop up ads, pop under ads...If browsers added a
         | feature, then websites used it to show you ads.
        
           | M95D wrote:
           | I prefer those ads to today's ads. At least they didn't track
           | anyone.
        
             | rkomorn wrote:
             | Pretty sure they did. Ad networks have been around a long
             | time and they've never been "nice".
        
             | alisonatwork wrote:
             | Every time I get on my tracking and internet privacy
             | soapbox, and I lament how little people care about it these
             | days, I need to cast my mind back to when I was a teenager
             | and everyone wanted a counter on their homepage. Not all
             | hosts provided a counter script in their cgi-bin so various
             | third-party websites offered counter image links that you
             | could add into your page. Of course when you clicked
             | through you could see all the different countries of your
             | site's visitors and it was the coolest thing ever. I was
             | thrilled when I hit 1000 visitors at some point! But
             | looking back, even if a few of those third-party counter
             | providers were just benevolent sysadmins offering a public
             | service, I have no doubt some of them turned into the data
             | mining giants of today.
             | 
             | To be fair, Geocities did get done by the FTC for secretly
             | selling users' PII to third-party advertisers almost 30
             | years ago, so it wasn't just our own faults. But I think
             | rather than the FTC actually putting a stop to the
             | behavior, the outcome was just that websites had be more
             | honest in their EULA that users would be giving up their
             | privacy rights, so here we are.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | My first website was on Homestead (.com or .net?) was HEAVILY
         | banner ad supported
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | It kind of had to be. How else could they host people for
           | free?
        
         | 2THFairy wrote:
         | So, obviously, ads were the norm back in the day. The author
         | had to be wearing several rose tinted glasses when writing
         | that.
         | 
         | But the author isn't entirely wrong. There were/are a lot of
         | websites that simply did not run ads. Hosted not for money, but
         | "for love of the game".
         | 
         | This is something that was lost with the shift to exclusively
         | platform-based hosting. A facebook page or subreddit simply is
         | never going to be ad-free in the way that a lot of former or
         | legacy forums were and are.
        
           | reactordev wrote:
           | They all wish they had the viewership for ads. They
           | definitely were a thing all the way back to the first
           | browsers. Banners, side banners, buttons, applets, most web
           | advertising size standards are derivative of these initial
           | placements.
           | 
           | What you're talking about was geocities or aol's members
           | sites that anyone could build a site with. Anyone running CGI
           | wishes for that sweet ad revenue to pay for the Sun
           | servers...
        
             | krapp wrote:
             | Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod and the like all had banner
             | ads. I think you could pay not to have them but for free
             | accounts they were mandatory.
        
               | alisonatwork wrote:
               | That wasn't the case in the beginning, on Geocities at
               | least. It was a pretty big deal when they started
               | introducing popups and mandatory banner ads.
        
               | crtasm wrote:
               | Yes, I had some pages on geocities around 1996/97 and to
               | the best of my memory they had no ads. I must have
               | stopped using the site entirely by the point they got
               | added.
               | 
               | edit: Wikipedia claims that happened in May 1997.
        
             | 2THFairy wrote:
             | > They definitely were a thing all the way back to the
             | first browsers.
             | 
             | I am not disputing that ads were a thing. I am not
             | disputing that ads were _common_.
             | 
             | I said that there were a lot of sites that chose not to run
             | them.
             | 
             | > They all wish they had the viewership for ads.
             | 
             | This is just not true. Like, c'mon man, the very site
             | you're on right now takes this approach.
        
           | CapsAdmin wrote:
           | I may be wearing the same glasses here, but it felt like ads
           | were more like "real ads" back then.
           | 
           | Like when walking down a street, you may see some posters
           | advertising something, but they are clearly ads, because they
           | are noisy rectangles bunched up with other noisy rectangles.
           | 
           | On the older internet, ads felt more like that, and seemed to
           | stay in the corner away from the content. However, on the
           | modern internet, ads and content feels entangled.
           | 
           | It's a bit like visiting a touristic area. It can feel like
           | everything is trying to grab your attention to sell something
           | and merchants become untrustworthy.
        
             | randomNumber7 wrote:
             | I don't know, I rarely see ads these days. I surf the
             | internet with adblock exclusive and just try to skip over
             | things like sponsored links or youtubers advertising in
             | their video.
        
         | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
         | It's like the nostalgia about the "Summer of Love" and the
         | 1960's... it really only lasted a single summer and only in one
         | or two little areas.
         | 
         | Same thing with the "old web." It was about the very early 90s
         | before Netscape Navigator (the Mosaic days) and when everyone
         | was just throwing up a single HTML page with a bunch of
         | links... that's the "old web".
         | 
         | The modern WWW kicked off with the ability to make credit card
         | transactions online (1994). That... and porn (1995).
         | 
         | For "old web" sites that still exist, check out wiby
         | 
         | https://wiby.org/
        
           | Fluorescence wrote:
           | > it really only lasted a single summer
           | 
           | "The Summer of Love" literally refers to one summer in 1967
           | not the whole of 60's counter-culture. Even Woodstock was in
           | '69.
           | 
           | In terms of the various cultural strands then of course they
           | lasted longer with many roots in 50's beatnick culture
           | (bohemianism, poetry, LSD, Buddhism) to today where bands
           | that played Monterey '67 and Woodstock are still touring and
           | a "definitely not a hippy" in San Francisco might live in a
           | polycule, micro-dose psychedelics while using a meditation
           | app before writing a blog about effective altruism.
        
         | corytheboyd wrote:
         | CONGRATULATIONS, YOU WON!
        
         | CIPHERSTONE wrote:
         | "No ads" is possible. It's a choice really. Too many bloggers
         | also want to make money and think ads are the way to do it.
         | That's certainly their right, but it doesn't have to be that
         | way.
         | 
         | Want no ads, start browsing gopher sites. No ads there. Or find
         | people making blogs just because they want to. They exist.
         | Github + Jekyll is a great option for free static blogging if
         | your willing to spend a little time getting it setup and
         | learning something new.
        
         | sumtechguy wrote:
         | The 94/95 web had no banners. Because most of it was hosted on
         | university servers or some random guy/company just wanted to
         | bear the cost.
         | 
         | I remember the big decision on if adverts should even be
         | allowed... Well here we are. Users get free things. Advertisers
         | pick up most of the bill. The second that model doesnt work
         | sites pack it up. The 'before time' could be there but
         | servers/bandwidth/people are not free. You can minimize those
         | but in the end someone needs to pay the electric bill.
        
           | philipkglass wrote:
           | I have been running my own web site for 20+ years without
           | ads. The server and bandwidth costs are minute. I use a basic
           | VPS. I started it when I was still a poor grad student. This
           | is cheaper now than shared hosting was back in the early
           | 2000s and it's easier too. But it's not cheaper than "free"
           | and it's significantly more administrative work than just
           | using a social network. The "people" costs (including my own
           | time fiddling with software configurations) is the biggest
           | barrier.
        
       | dmortin wrote:
       | What bothers me is that even some tech forums use Facebook groups
       | and stuff, hiding the information in non-searchable silos.
       | 
       | Why can't at least tech people use only traditional forums which
       | are easily searchable, readable without login, etc?
        
         | SirFatty wrote:
         | "tech forums use Facebook groups "
         | 
         | And Discord, which is terrible for that.
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | _Back in its early days it was fresh and exciting, a fun way to
       | connect with your friends that might be far away, or make new
       | friends online._
       | 
       | This doesn't sound like blogs + rss, this sounds like phpBB + AOL
       | instant messenger. Social media is at its best when real people
       | are interacting with real people, not when real people are
       | interacting with a blog post/tweet/etc., (and definitely not an
       | algorithm)...
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | My favorite forum used vBulletin and I was using Miranda IM
         | because I could find amazing themes for it on deviantART.
         | 
         | Man, what a time.
        
         | AndrewStephens wrote:
         | All that is happening on Discord these days. It is a shame that
         | this is not happening over open protocols but I doubt most
         | people care.
        
           | SirFatty wrote:
           | That's more like IRC...
        
             | lstodd wrote:
             | More like ICQ
        
       | afinewinterday wrote:
       | I think OP missed a big point: it's also the fact that algorithms
       | are sifting through every word and picture you post and
       | constructing insanely accurate targeting to sell to advertisers
       | and governments, and to the bad side of those two.
       | 
       | What we also need is privacy. I only want my friends to see my
       | blog or rss feed. Not the entire planet and every greedy spyware.
        
         | afinewinterday wrote:
         | Funny when I look at my account on another machine when not
         | logged in my score is -1, but that is hidden when I'm logged in
         | to HN and everything looks normal and score is 1.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Not the entire planet and every greedy spyware._
         | 
         | I don't mind the entire planet of human beings seeing my blog,
         | but I don't want what I write to be monetized by grifters and
         | trillion-dollar companies.
         | 
         | For that reason, my personal blog is behind security so only
         | invited people can see it.
         | 
         | It works very well, but no, I'm not going to explain how it
         | works because there are plenty of people on HN who have no
         | morals, work for crappy companies, or are part of the trillion-
         | dollar machines that are destroying human creativity so some
         | C-level can buy a third private island.
        
       | mschuster91 wrote:
       | Old Web was killed by spam bots, Metasploit, Shodan and DDoS
       | attacks getting easy enough to buy for random joes.
       | 
       | I ran phpBB boards, my own blogs, an instance of a German php-
       | based MMORPG I long forgot the name of. But it simply wasn't fun
       | any more to keep up with the bad actors, to wake up and find
       | someone found yet another bug in the MMORPG software or phpBB and
       | in the best case just spammed profanities, in the worst case raze
       | the entire server blank.
       | 
       | It's just not feasible any more to be an innocent kid on the
       | Internet with a $5 VPS. And that's _not_ taking the ever
       | increasing share of legal obligations (CSAM and DMCA takedowns,
       | EU 's anti terrorism law, GDPR, you name it) and their associated
       | financial and criminal risk into account - I know people who did
       | get anything from legal nastygrams for thousands of euros for
       | some idiot uploading MP3s onto a phpBB to getting their door
       | busted down by police at 6 in the morning because someone used
       | their TOR exit node to distribute CSAM.
       | 
       | The only thing that's somewhat safe is a static built website
       | hosted on AWS S3. No way to deface or take down that unless you
       | manage to get your credentials exfiltrated by some malware.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | Okay, so we need Old Web with extra steps (security).
         | 
         | I'll admit that when I lament the web we used to have, I'm
         | never thinking about viruses, malware, pop ups/unders, &c.
         | Seems like all that stuff was just a small price to pay for
         | connecting with likeminded people.
         | 
         | I have a slice of that with Mastodon but maybe being 20 years
         | older and jaded is making me wistful, yearning for something
         | that is never coming back.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | We more-so need Old Web with actual consequences for bad
           | actors. You know, the days when you could email an ISP's
           | abuse mailbox with evidence of someone running portscans and
           | they'd get at least told to clean up shop _or else_ , and the
           | _or else_ went as far as getting their contract cancelled
           | entirely.
           | 
           | These days it seems like abuse@ is routed straight to
           | /dev/null, and that's not even addressing enemy nation states
           | that willingly shield and host bad actors.
        
             | NetOpWibby wrote:
             | This is a great point
        
       | alex1138 wrote:
       | I am bearish on this idea
        
         | lioeters wrote:
         | Chat, launch new startup named Bull Blog.
        
       | AfterHIA wrote:
       | The feeling of, "being able to breathe again" that this creates
       | is a boon to my failing health. I'm seeing movements in this
       | direction alongside, "HTML-only" as a better
       | realization/utilization of the internet. We might not ever get
       | the Vannevar Bush-Ted Nelson lost super internet some speculate
       | about but I'm glad we can at least get to, "something workable."
       | Cheers speckx!
        
       | jan_Sate wrote:
       | Not closely relevant but I've revamped my personal website
       | earlier this year to bring the old web vibe into it. I've got a
       | 88x31 GIF section and I wonder where I could look for other old
       | web sites to cross link with my site.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | I have 88x31 banners on my homepage, https://webb.page, what's
         | yours?
        
       | 101008 wrote:
       | I did something similar a few months, launched it on HN, no
       | traction. It's really difficult. No one wants to host their blog
       | / posts on a platform that will dissapear when the owner gets
       | bored or can't maintain it anymore.
       | 
       | Added this to other comments: old web had ads (iframes, banners,
       | popups!), and also was completely self-hosted, which gave you
       | more freedom than any other cloud platform. If you want to
       | resurect old web, just give a free hosting with FTP.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | I think the "old web" is also heavily nostalgia-infested, it
         | wasn't nearly as good as most people here remember.
         | 
         | Blatantly false information? Internet Explorer required for
         | everything? Adobe Flash and Java all over the place? Websites
         | that frequently actually could hack your computer? Geocities
         | and AOL being the meeting places, reincarnated as Discord?
         | Terribly slow, low-resolution imagery that our brains filled in
         | the details for? The worst font and font color choices known to
         | man? Shock content being absolutely rampant? Constant pop-ups?
         | Every company wanting a toolbar?
         | 
         | That's what I remember. It's the same phenomenon where people
         | think their Nintendo 64 or PlayStation 2 was a masterpiece
         | never paralleled, revisit it in 2025, and realize: "wow...
         | this... sucks actually." It's the same phenomenon where people
         | think cars were better in the 80s, but they sit in an 80s car,
         | and realize we've come a long, long way.
        
           | NetOpWibby wrote:
           | Several things can be true at the same time. 80s cars were
           | uncomfortable but damn they look good.
           | 
           | On a CRT display, a game's aesthetic could thrive but fall
           | flat on modern displays.
           | 
           | Learning patience for slow internet speeds versus immediacy
           | to see stuff you actually don't wanna see anyway.
           | 
           | It's all perspective, really.
        
           | maxrecursion wrote:
           | There are amazing retro games that are still awesome to play
           | to this day. To say they all suck, and it's just nostalgia is
           | not true at all.
           | 
           | Sure, a lot of them suck, especially on Nintendo 64, because
           | of the 3d transition, but from the NES onward there are
           | timeless classics.
           | 
           | My kid beat super Metroid several times, he decided to play
           | it on his own on his switch, and he loved it. He plays the
           | old pokemon games too. In other words, that's a terrible
           | analogy.
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | You're choosing the top 10 games on the Nintendo 64 and NES
             | to make your analogy; out of the thousands and thousands of
             | games produced for those systems. Give your kid game #50
             | (Waialae Country Club: True Golf Classics on N64) and see
             | if she would prefer it over literally any modern game that
             | ranks on Steam. My analogy holds.
        
               | klez wrote:
               | Why would you compare "any modern game that ranks on
               | Steam" with random games from the era?
               | 
               | You said
               | 
               | > It's the same phenomenon where people think their
               | Nintendo 64 or PlayStation 2 was a masterpiece never
               | paralleled, revisit it in 2025, and realize: "wow...
               | this... sucks actually."
               | 
               | I actually tried re-playing PS games I remember enjoying,
               | and I still enjoy them.
               | 
               | I see what you mean about the fact that people look at
               | old stuff with rose-tinted glasses, but really some
               | things _did_ age well (including parts of the early web).
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | Even on the old web, most people hosted their sites on a
         | service like Geocities or on their ISP's servers, school, etc.
         | Very few people actually self-hosted.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | Actually not a bad idea, just not making this offer available
         | to the world. Or maybe have a super low storage limit like
         | 100MB. Or 10.
        
         | evilduck wrote:
         | > If you want to resurect old web, just give a free hosting
         | with FTP.
         | 
         | Also know as: How to get a visit from the FBI or a state agency
         | equivalent once someone discovers you're a viable conduit of
         | unsavory content.
         | 
         | The old web is dead, it will never come back because it relied
         | on ignorance, naivety, charity, and good faith. Those are
         | mostly all gone. You can still stand up one of these hosts and
         | pages for yourself but you must still be incredibly vigilant
         | because automated attacks on your host will be happening non-
         | stop. Jumping into hosting for others is no longer a hobby and
         | it never will be again.
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | The old web isn't a platform, an aesthetic, or a technology. The
       | old web is people creating and sharing because they are
       | intrinsically motivated. Everything we hate about the current web
       | comes from extrinsic motivations. Good luck removing them.
        
         | tolerance wrote:
         | This is the most succinct critique of the "old web phenomenon"
         | I've come across and I reckon can be applied to other issues as
         | well. There doesn't seem to be a dearth of extrinsic motivators
         | these days, oddly mediated through screens.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | Beautifully and succinctly stated, damn. This is like, reading
         | a bunch of philosophy and trying to wrap your head around it
         | and some bored professor casually ELI5's the topic.
        
       | kshahkshah wrote:
       | I think we need a new protocol, a hard break
        
         | crgk wrote:
         | Then you may be interested in Gemini (or Gopher, or...)
         | https://geminiquickst.art/
        
         | vallassy wrote:
         | Obligatory XKCD:https://xkcd.com/927/
         | 
         | I fail to see what a new protocol would bring to the equation.
         | I see it more as a human behaviour issue, network effect, worse
         | is better etc etc.
         | 
         | My grandma uses Facebook because someone taught her how, she
         | doesn't have the capability to explore technology on her own.
         | That honestly goes for most people, they treat their computer
         | as necessary for getting along in modern society and nothing
         | more.
         | 
         | Facebook is the internet.
        
       | tuyosvawnt wrote:
       | "you can return to the past, but no one will be there"
        
       | corytheboyd wrote:
       | > In my opinion the answer is honestly pretty simple: blogs and
       | RSS feeds.
       | 
       | This point is made very often, and I do believe it was true for
       | many people, but I honestly didn't care about individual blogs at
       | all when I was a young net user.
       | 
       | I didn't care about the 1,000 words a single person wrote about
       | their trip abroad. There was no way to interact with it? All the
       | action for me was on forums and chat rooms. Like the author
       | mentions, it's exactly the type of excitement that naturally led
       | to early social media, which I was also a huge fan of for the
       | close friends I already had.
       | 
       | The defeatist in me feels like I will just never have that same
       | feeling again online. In part because I am no longer a child, in
       | part because there are just too many people online now, in part
       | because too many of those people's brains are twitter-rotted.
       | 
       | It's fine, I have my close circles to keep my human social spirit
       | alive.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | > I honestly didn't care about individual blogs at all when I
         | was a young net user.
         | 
         | Wow. This was me too. I was excited to hop on the Rockman.EXE
         | Online forums and tell people about my homepage I was
         | constantly redesigning/rebuilding.
         | 
         | > The defeatist in me feels like I will just never have that
         | same feeling again online.
         | 
         | I feel you, but I'm still chasing that. Close circles are where
         | it's at though, maybe we gotta be happy with that. SIGH
        
         | st_goliath wrote:
         | > I didn't care about the 1,000 words a single person wrote
         | about their trip abroad. There was no way to interact with it?
         | 
         | I wonder, have you ever read a novel? Hundreds of _pages_ a
         | single person wrote about a story that happened (usually)
         | entirely in their head, printed on paper, no way to interact
         | with it. It 's a _great_ experience if the author has some
         | skill at this.
        
           | corytheboyd wrote:
           | Yes, I have read novels. I don't think blog posts and novels
           | compare at all.
        
             | 1dom wrote:
             | I can't downvote, but this comment feels a little rude or
             | standoffish towards someone who read what you wrote,
             | thought about it, and gave a response.
             | 
             | You said you didn't care for 1000 words that someone wrote
             | about their trip abroad, and that's clearly an example to
             | illustrate something, but it's not clear what, because it's
             | contrived and falls apart easily: nobody else really read
             | those blogs either, people read blogs from people and
             | topics they're interested in.
             | 
             | So what about 1000 word blog from an a single individual
             | that does interest you? Or more than 1000 words from a
             | single individual on a different topic, like a novel?
        
       | jwr wrote:
       | I am all for resurrecting the Old Web, but please, let's not
       | repeat the same mistakes again.
       | 
       | Be independent. Running your own website is not that difficult.
       | And seriously, spending the minuscule amount of money on hosting
       | should not be a problem. It's a hobby, hobbies cost money. If you
       | own your website, you can move it anywhere quickly. Nobody will
       | start showing ads. Nobody will pester your users with annoying
       | "SUBSCRIBE" modal popups. Nobody will sell the platform along
       | with you and your content to a new owner.
       | 
       | I do not know enough about this particular platform -- maybe it's
       | different from others, maybe not. But I have seen enough
       | platforms undergo progressive enshittification to be wary of any
       | place that wants to host my stuff under their domain/URL.
        
       | ryanolsonx wrote:
       | It's funny, when I was younger, it was all about MSN messenger,
       | MySpace (esp the music player on there), and forums. That's the
       | old web I remember from before. No personal blogs, really. (Again
       | I'm not old enough to remember before that)
        
       | talkingtab wrote:
       | I do not think "old" helps a discussion and probably impedes it.
       | A better conversation is perhaps about what features we call
       | "old" are good and desirable. Then how we can build a new,
       | sustainable system with those features.
       | 
       | Unfortunately sustainable is somewhat equivalent to money.
       | Whatever work you do, and even if you love it, in general it
       | needs to have a functional business model. Businesses that can
       | financially support the people who provide them, tend to
       | continue.
       | 
       | Personally, I believe this is the fundamental problem with many
       | of the things that we now fondly think of as "old". Google
       | groups? What was the business model? Did it make money? How could
       | you make money from doing something like that?
       | 
       | The fundamental business model IRL used to be "fee for service".
       | Not lock in. Not subscription. It works, because if people want
       | the service they can pay for it. Okay, so hint: what are the
       | issues of implementing fee-for-service on the internet?
       | 
       | hint number 2: someone mentioned banner ads in a comment. Is that
       | fee for service? If not, for extra credit, what would be the side
       | effects of a banner ad type business model? Are there useful
       | services that could be provided with an alternative business
       | model. Etc.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | > what are the issues of implementing fee-for-service on the
         | internet?
         | 
         | If you aren't selling porn or whatever credit card companies
         | can't stomach, there's no problem. I recently stumbled upon a
         | way to accept payments without the credit card companies
         | (crypto): https://www.x402.org
         | 
         | > what would be the side effects of a banner ad type business
         | model?
         | 
         | I remember Carbon Ads and BuySellAds being tasteful banner ad
         | companies. I think one or both folded in recent years. In
         | today's era, respectful banner ads probably have a niche
         | market, especially with the prevalence of ad blockers. You'd be
         | better off implementing x402 instead (paying for access to a
         | resource).
         | 
         | But then your end-user needs to already have a crypto wallet,
         | understand what USDC is, and so on...another niche market.
        
       | flyinghamster wrote:
       | > Recently a local news station in Maine reported a story of some
       | middle schoolers calling their friends with landline telephones.
       | 
       | This reflects on another problem: the sorry state of journalism
       | and willingness to turn press releases into news. That story ran
       | in a wide variety of media outlets, and a Google News search of
       | "children landline phones" turns up a bunch of these.
       | 
       | It turns out that these articles were really ads for "Tin Can," a
       | VoIP phone for kids. Not really a landline at all, it's seriously
       | nerfed, and I'd assume that if it's SIP, it's locked to their
       | service, or else it's their own proprietary protocol. Not really
       | a surprise, given that real landlines are almost extinct, and
       | expensive where available.
        
       | lunias wrote:
       | The "old web" to me was GeoCities and Angelfire, it was
       | customizing your NeoPets shop, it was hosting a web server on
       | your home network on port 8080. It was mailing a check to an
       | address you found on a website in hopes that you'd receive a
       | bootleg anime VHS in the mail a few weeks later. It was webrings,
       | banners, and websites reviewing and promoting other sites through
       | a "links" section. It was right-clicking to copy an image and
       | getting a Javascript alert telling you the image was "copyright".
       | It was learning that you could copy it anyway if you spammed
       | enter. It was hotlinking those same images in protest. It was
       | waiting 5 hours to download a 37 second 320x240 RealPlayer video.
       | It was having a password "protected" area where the password is
       | base64 encoded in the source. It was trying the same search query
       | in multiple search engines because they would return different
       | results. It was typing random URLs in to see if you could find
       | something interesting yourself. It was playing midi files on loop
       | in the background. It was Macromedia Flash, explicit popups, pure
       | yellow text on black backgrounds, and reformatting your computer
       | to get rid of viruses.
       | 
       | The "old web" was McDonalds in the early 90's. This looks more
       | like McDonalds today, maybe tomorrow it will be a Starbucks.
       | 
       | I run my own blog on AWS for ~a dollar a month.
        
         | pif wrote:
         | > 8080
         | 
         | You mean 80. Ports after 1024 were for wimps.
        
           | lunias wrote:
           | Nah, port 8080 because your ISP is blocking port 80 to try
           | and prevent you from running a home webserver.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | This was a beautiful read.
         | 
         | Can I read your blog? Mine is https://blog.webb.page.
        
           | lunias wrote:
           | Very nice! Mine is https://ethanaa.com, but I basically only
           | updated it for the first couple months after I built it lol.
        
             | NetOpWibby wrote:
             | Added to my NetNewsWire!
        
         | Bjorkbat wrote:
         | It really is crazy how much was lost when Apple killed Flash.
         | Absolutely miss Newgrounds. It's still around of course, I'm
         | reflecting more on the vibes when it was in its heyday.
         | Unbelievable the games people were making with Flash back then
         | and how it spawned the careers of a ton of indie darlings.
         | Also, not Flash at all, but does anyone remember Exit Mundi?
         | Absolute gold.
         | 
         | Honestly, I kind of look back on blogging unfavorably. Before
         | that people made websites to showcase their interests and
         | hobbies, and because of that even the most basic looking
         | websites could have a lot of "color" to them. Then blogging
         | became a thing and people's websites became bland and
         | minimalist. Arguably blogging culture is as responsible for the
         | death of creativity on the internet as much as the constraints
         | of mobile-friendly web design and Apple's aforementioned
         | killing of Flash.
        
           | lunias wrote:
           | Newgrounds was incredible! At the time, games (of any
           | quality) for free was a biiiiig deal. It was even more
           | amazing that you didn't need to wait hours to download and
           | install them.
           | 
           | I agree w/ your take on blogging... kind of a bland "one-
           | stop-shop" for everything a person thinks of rather than an
           | experience tailored to a specific interest. I used to make
           | Dragonball Z fan sites mostly... even within a single domain
           | I would have multiple websites all linking to each other,
           | each with a different design, and subtly different content,
           | but now I have a bland blog that I don't update regularly
           | lol. Maybe building a retro site is what I really need to do.
        
             | NetOpWibby wrote:
             | > now I have a bland blog that I don't update regularly
             | lol.
             | 
             | I'm guilty of this but at least it's a different kind of
             | boring (plain text files).
             | 
             | > Maybe building a retro site is what I really need to do.
             | 
             | YES.
        
             | Bjorkbat wrote:
             | > I used to make Dragonball Z fan sites...
             | 
             | Based
             | 
             | I'm working on a revamp of my personal site. I do a lot of
             | creative coding, most of them are throwaway experiments, so
             | I thought I'd showcase more of them there. Besides that
             | though, I have some "rare pepes" that I've been meaning to
             | put somewhere. What I like about these is that they're
             | highly polished, animated gifs that imitate the sort of
             | "holographic" effect you'd find in rare collector's cards,
             | but at the same time you can't track down who originally
             | made them, they aren't part of some professional's online
             | portfolio. In that sense they feel like a special piece of
             | internet folk art, made by some complete rando.
             | 
             | Nowadays we have Pinterest and the like, but I really like
             | the idea of creating my own little online space for images
             | I like.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Agreed on both points. When blogging became the dominant
           | reason for having a website, we were already on the way to
           | the "content" hell. Any semi popular website had pressure to
           | post more frequently, diluting quality. And pretty soon after
           | that, blogs went from 500 words to 140 characters, but 10x
           | the frequency.
           | 
           | Static websites that were updated only once in a while were
           | far better at showing a cross section of someone's life In
           | that respect, StumbleUpon and browser bookmarks were superior
           | to RSS.
        
             | NetOpWibby wrote:
             | StumbleUpon is the reason I regularly use the phrase, "I
             | stumbled upon" to this day.
             | 
             | What a glorious product.
        
             | m000 wrote:
             | In retrospect, I would say that the "blog rush" was kind of
             | a precursor to the rise of influencers. There was even a
             | crowd of "blogging gurus" that would ask a pretty peny for
             | advice on how to advance your blog.
             | 
             | The blogging pressure got so out of hand, that even some EU
             | bureucrat thought it would be a great idea for each FP6
             | funded project to have a blog besides its static website.
             | At least with the influencing trend they don't ask
             | researchers to do glamour shots with their food.
        
           | tolciho wrote:
           | Flash was the first broken site I ever encountered, some
           | restaurant had an all-flash webpage. Never did end up going
           | to that restaurant. Why bother? If they render content
           | inaccessible behind some needless jank like Flash or
           | JavaScript, why bother? Another fun thing to do was to keep a
           | tally of how many "OMG stop the presses!!" security
           | vulnerabilities Flash had racked up over time, which was
           | lots. Many hundreds. Made even a lolfest like Windows look
           | bad. Flash, it was not killed with fire soon enough. Chrome
           | and other such bloatware arguably also need some sort of
           | fire, or at least a diet or trepaning or something, but
           | that's a different rant, though one very much related to the
           | Old Web or the smolweb.
        
           | alwillis wrote:
           | > It really is crazy how much was lost when Apple killed
           | Flash.
           | 
           | Steve Jobs published "Thoughts on Flash" [1] in 2010; Flash
           | was discontinued by Adobe in 2017. If Apple supposedly
           | "killed" Flash, they sure took their time doing so.
           | 
           | The iPhone had about 14% marketshare at the time, so it's not
           | like Apple was in a commanding position to dictate terms to
           | the industry.
           | 
           | But if you read his letter, what he said made total sense:
           | Flash was designed for the desktop, not phones--it certainly
           | wasn't power or memory efficient. Apple was still selling the
           | iPhone 3GS at the time, a device with 256Mb of RAM and a
           | 600Mhz 32-bit processor.
           | 
           | And of course Flash was proprietary and 100% controlled by
           | Adobe.
           | 
           | Jobs made the case for the (still in development) HTML5--
           | HTML, CSS and JavaScript.
           | 
           | What people don't seem to remember: most of the industry
           | thought the iPhone would fail as a platform because it didn't
           | support Flash, which was wildly popular.
           | 
           | [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20170615060422/https://www.a
           | pple...
        
             | SXX wrote:
             | Getting rid of Flash was never ever about using HTML5 for
             | Apple. It was always to obviously to make battery life
             | better and ofc adding more experiences to their walled
             | garden store.
             | 
             | Safari is lagging on HTML5 features for decade far behind
             | Firefox. And any features useful for "PWA" is just
             | sabotaged. E.g like Screen Wake Lock API finally
             | implemented in iOS 16 but to this day broken on Home
             | screen. And like not quite obvious to use in Safari too.
             | 
             | Because working web standards support would make cross
             | platform mobile apps possible outside of App Store.
        
               | alwillis wrote:
               | > Safari is lagging on HTML5 features for decade far
               | behind Firefox.
               | 
               | Really?
               | 
               | Safari was first to ship :has() in March 2022; Firefox
               | couldn't ship until December 2023.
               | 
               | I listed a bunch of web platform features Safari shipped
               | before Chrome and Firefox [1][2].
               | 
               | Even now, Firefox hasn't shipped Anchor Positioning,
               | Scroll-driven animation, text-wrap: pretty, Web GPU,
               | Cross-document view transitions, etc. but Safari and
               | Chrome have.
               | 
               | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074789
               | 
               | [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44067706
        
             | johnfn wrote:
             | > Steve Jobs published "Thoughts on Flash" [1] in 2010;
             | Flash was discontinued by Adobe in 2017. If Apple
             | supposedly "killed" Flash, they sure took their time doing
             | so.
             | 
             | I'm really surprised anyone could say that. To my view,
             | "Thoughts on Flash killed Flash" is about as true as "the
             | sky is blue". It's fairly clear to me that without a strong
             | stance, a less principled mobile OS (like Android) would
             | have supported it, and probably Flash would still be around
             | today. Apple's stance gave Google the path to do the same
             | thing, and this domino effect led to Flash being
             | discontinued 7 years later. You say 7 years as if it's a
             | long time from cause to effect, but how long would you
             | estimate it would take a single action to fully kill
             | something as pervasive as Flash, which was installed on
             | virtually every machine (Im sure it was 99%+)? You
             | correctly cite that iOS penetration was low at the time,
             | but mobile Safari grew over the next few years to become
             | the dominant web browser, and that was sufficient.
        
               | alwillis wrote:
               | > You correctly cite that iOS penetration was low at the
               | time, but mobile Safari grew over the next few years to
               | become the dominant web browser, and that was sufficient.
               | 
               | First, there's no way Flash would still be alive today;
               | Apple might have sped up its demise but it had so many
               | disadvantages, it was just a matter of time and it was
               | controlled by one company.
               | 
               | Remember that the web standards movement was kicking into
               | high gear around the same time; we had already dodged a
               | bullet when Microsoft attempted to take over the web with
               | Active X, Silverlight, JScript.
               | 
               | The whole point of the Web Standards movement was to get
               | away from proprietary technologies.
               | 
               | > You correctly cite that iOS penetration was low at the
               | time, but mobile Safari grew over the next few years to
               | become the dominant web browser, and that was sufficient.
               | 
               | Safari has _never_ been the dominant browser; not sure
               | why you think that. Other than the United States, iPhone
               | marketshare is under 50% everywhere else.
               | 
               | Even in 2025, Safari's _global_ marketshare is about 15%
               | [1] and that 's after selling 3 billion devices [2].
               | 
               | [1]: https://backlinko.com/browser-market-share
               | 
               | [2]: https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/31/apple-has-now-
               | sold-three-b...
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | Ruffle needs more love. The time and effort that's gone in to
           | a browser extension to emulate flash, should be receiving
           | that sponsorship from Cloudflare.
           | 
           | https://ruffle.rs/
        
             | rzzzt wrote:
             | I'm waiting for microphone support so I can make the frog
             | on Ze Frank's website sing.
        
             | Gormo wrote:
             | It's not just a browser extension -- it's also available as
             | a JS library that can be added added to any site to restore
             | seamless Flash support.
        
           | snickerbockers wrote:
           | It's more to do with HTML5 than lack-of flash, although it
           | could be argued that flash's long-prophesied downfall was one
           | of the reasons for HTML5's rapid adoption.
           | 
           | HTML5 is when the web stopped being the web. It has no
           | legitimacy in calling itself "hypertext", it's an app-
           | delivery mechanism with a built-in compatibility layer. In
           | this regard Flash is just as bad and probably even worse, but
           | since it wasn't in anyway standardized or even open-source
           | there was a fair amount of pushback from all fronts. HTML5
           | had no such pushback.
        
         | hoherd wrote:
         | It was also visiting pages like pages.small-isp.net/~username
         | and digging through the HTML to see if somebody had <!-- hidden
         | comments adding private commentary but only for folks who were
         | knowledgeable and curious enough to look -->
        
         | rootsudo wrote:
         | Wow this hit too close to home but describes my internet
         | experience of the 00s exactly. Except for anime vhs tapes it
         | was fansubs on irc or mailing burned cds/dvds.
        
           | lunias wrote:
           | That's awesome. By the time I got on IRC it was for XDCC ;P.
           | I did once pool cash with some friends to buy rips of
           | Dragonball GT on ebay... 64 episodes on 2 CD-Rs.
        
         | hossbeast wrote:
         | I once bought a SNES game that couldn't be found at local
         | stores (final fantasy 2) by 1/ finding a guy on a message board
         | with the cartridge, 2/ mailing that person a check, and 3/
         | waiting (probably weeks?) to receive the cartridge in the mail.
         | The old Internet. I still have that game btw.
        
         | AznHisoka wrote:
         | >> It was mailing a check to an address you found on a website
         | in hopes that you'd receive a bootleg anime VHS in the mail a
         | few weeks later.
         | 
         | Check? More like actual dollar bills stuffed inside a piece of
         | paper inside an envelope, so nobody could see what it was
        
       | matula wrote:
       | Remember FriendFeed? It was unironically a pretty cool thing.
       | Subscribe to RSS feeds, displayed in a Twitter-like timeline, and
       | could comment and share and follow people and see their feeds...
       | and all of that had their own RSS feeds.
       | 
       | The current FeedLand gets close, and is nice for reading, but
       | there's not a huge "social" aspect to it.
        
       | armchairhacker wrote:
       | I, too, felt the old web was much more creative and limitless.
       | But to be blunt, these attempts to resurrect it feel like the
       | opposite: another collection of 90s-style HTML and artwork about
       | generic "old web" stuff (or about the old web itself, which makes
       | no sense - you don't hear people today reminiscing about 2025).
       | 
       | I think a big problem is desensitization. When I was young,
       | MSPaint art looked good, bitcrushed music sounded fine, and
       | simple flash games were fun. Then the art, music, and games kept
       | becoming more complex and higher quality, so the novelty and
       | perceived opportunity was sustained. Now it has tapered off, so
       | the novelty has run out and the next improvement is hard to
       | imagine.
       | 
       | However, the world is so complicated and technology is still
       | improving such that I suspect (and hope) we'll find more
       | breakthroughs within the next decade. Personally, I'm still
       | optimistic about VR: right now good VR is too expensive and
       | development is too hard, but those are incrementally-solvable
       | problems, and few people have experienced good VR (especially
       | with motion) but I can imagine it.
        
         | nativeit wrote:
         | Not for nothing, the last time I checked the most popular indie
         | games on steam are all intentionally made to look vaguely 8-bit
         | (really prob more like 64-bit, but lofi retro).
        
           | armchairhacker wrote:
           | Sometimes for nostalgia, but I think that's usually because
           | it's easier to make decent graphics if they're 2D and low
           | resolution. You don't see many games with the low-quality
           | Flash style, pixelation happens to be less "ugly".
        
       | crnkofe wrote:
       | I like to go on a nostalgia trip every now and then as well.
       | Loved the old forums that got taken out by social networks. Also
       | loved the various private communities in IRC and Usenet and the
       | blog-o-spheres I was part of and read about. But the sad reality
       | is that its more about the community than the technology. And the
       | communities of old mostly disbanded and moved on and restoring
       | old tech won't bring them back.
       | 
       | Nowadays the main issue for me is that there are too many people
       | in the room. Pick any social network and forum and you're an
       | immediate misfit there. Make one edgy statements and trolls,
       | flamers, live streamers will tear you apart. Not to mention AI
       | tech advancements are making a not-great situation slightly
       | worse. The internet is no longer a happy place. Its a good
       | question if it ever were.
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | > The internet is no longer a happy place. Its a good question
         | if it ever were.
         | 
         | I still remember being excited to "go online." So yeah, it was
         | (for me).
        
         | randomNumber7 wrote:
         | Forums had been better but I wonder how much is about peeple
         | just beeing different. Nowadays people have less time and
         | struggle more, so they favor s.th. more effortless in their
         | free time and also are more egoistic (on average of course
         | only).
        
       | endymion-light wrote:
       | Trying to ressurect the old internet by staying limited to a
       | platform like bear blog may be a big limitation. To me, part of
       | what made the old internet so interesting is the expression of
       | ideas in so many things beyond just regular blogs.
       | 
       | Like someone else mentioned, things like GeoCities, but also
       | stories like Ted The Caver, neopets, etc. Blogs are great but to
       | be honest, I get most of my stuff from mailing lists and hacker
       | news and feel quite fine with that.
       | 
       | What i'd love to see more of is people building interesting
       | experiences for the love of the game, that's what feels like
       | builds passion and interest. But there's no returning back to the
       | old internet in the same way, because what's interesting and
       | what's fun to read has changed.
        
       | root_axis wrote:
       | A post like this makes the rounds every few months on HN. What
       | posts like this neglect to consider is that the overwhelming
       | majority of people who use social media apps didn't use the
       | internet during the "old" era. The reality is, this is nerd
       | nostalgia that nobody cares about or wants besides a sub-
       | population of nerds. The masses don't care about blogs, rss, or
       | small networks. The internet grew because the social media and
       | internet companies invested billions in bringing the masses
       | online via these shiny addictive platforms - the "old web" is
       | never going to appeal to them - it is a relic of the past.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | >What posts like this neglect to consider is that the
         | overwhelming majority of people who use social media apps
         | didn't use the internet during the "old" era.
         | 
         | They don't neglect to consider that at all - what people are
         | nostalgic for is the web before it became mainstream and got
         | ruined by muggles and corporations, when was just an exclusive
         | club for nerds. Implicit to the concept of resurrecting the
         | "Old Web" is recreating spaces that will never appeal to the
         | masses. That's a feature, not a bug.
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | The old web never went away, it never died. It was you who left.
       | You who runs a corporate browser that can't even load HTTP pages
       | anymore. You who only post on massive corporate run social media
       | (like I am with HN). You who host your website on github or
       | behind cloudflare or don't even bother and just have a mastodon
       | or facebook page (both exclusively javascript applications).
       | 
       | The old web is still there, almost invisible under the piles of
       | corporate javascript applications. There's probably more old web
       | now than there was when the old web was new. It's just that in
       | terms of relative ratios it's buried under so much crap and
       | search engines are so bad no few can surf it. Heck, there's even
       | still usenet and people posting there like myself. It's not dead
       | and it's not spammed anymore, and it's a true federated protocol.
       | 
       | But it is easy to be the change. Self host your website from your
       | home computer. Don't use Chrome or Chrome derivatives. Don't put
       | computational paywalls in front of your services like cloudflare
       | or even Anubis. The truth is that for most websites in most
       | situations, all that is not needed. And most importantly, surf
       | the web. That'll require setting up the modern version of
       | webrings: feeds. And sharing feeds with your friends and peers.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | What "corporate browsers" can't even load HTTP pages anymore?
        
           | lockranore2 wrote:
           | I think this might be a reference to the barriers browsers
           | place to hit sites not listed behind a TLS cert.
        
         | smnplk wrote:
         | But noone wants to look at another website anymore. People dont
         | browse the web like in the old days or in the 2000s or in the
         | 2010s. People are just used to being siloed now. Many dont even
         | know what the old web was and how it felt. There are just a few
         | silos now, FB , reddit, X and this is all they know, many dont
         | even know much more than FB.
         | 
         | Internet has become dogshit wrapped in catshit.
        
       | mediumsmart wrote:
       | _it 's only html (but I like it)_
        
       | z0r wrote:
       | Let's do it!
       | 
       | https://c.tenor.com/6T0_YBIw9MkAAAAC/tenor.gif
        
       | butz wrote:
       | I think youtube should not be mixed into old web. Either embed
       | your video in website and provide download, or host it on
       | peertube. I know about video file hosting issues and costs, so
       | maybe use appropriatly sized videos? Low quality, low resolution,
       | compress as much as possible, and it will probably won't take
       | more than any average website. :)
        
         | NetOpWibby wrote:
         | There's no way for a video platform to work without some sort
         | of payment. Video costs money. Thankfully, Cloudflare R2 is
         | enough for the average blogger. You just gotta figure out how
         | to use it.
         | 
         | I'm building a short-form video platform with R2 as the storage
         | backend. I figured out transcoding but I definitely need a
         | better server for it. The old web isn't coming back because
         | "free" is rife for abuse.
         | 
         | I've embedded a video on my homepage from my platform
         | (dogfooding). Not sure I'll share the platform here when I soft
         | launch next week or so, HN doesn't like incomplete products.
         | 
         | All this to say, video with decent quality is possible for the
         | average website.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | video is a file like anything else.
           | 
           | so .txt costs money; .zip costs money index.html costs money.
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | Something that was pointed out to me the other day: Firefox can
       | show you "important dates" in the address bar, but they've yanked
       | RSS support. You now need a plugin to get the RSS feed link for a
       | site.
       | 
       | I miss the old web, but I'm not sure it's coming back. You can
       | still go on Usenet as well, not sure why anyone is spending time
       | keeping the servers running, because I can not find an active
       | newsgroups anymore. It was nice for a time, but the future has
       | lost it's appeal to me.
       | 
       | Maybe the author, and some the comments are right. I should go
       | build an silly personal website, just in HTML, have all the pages
       | be different styles, have silly buttons, weird Perl scripts all
       | over the place and link to like minded people.
        
         | ibfreeekout wrote:
         | Honestly, go for it! I started my own blog up and write
         | everything myself, all the way down to the basic HTML and CSS.
         | I don't use any frameworks or anything, whatever is there is
         | just mine. Benefit is I'm not locked in to any one platform and
         | migration is a piece of cake. Obviously won't work for everyone
         | but I don't need much to put some words out there, but at least
         | I can say it's all mine.
        
       | lubujackson wrote:
       | Speaking of the "landline" thing for kids that is mentioned at
       | the start of the post, this product is making the rounds amongst
       | my kid's class (3rd grade). Not sure if it will catch on, but
       | seems far too pricey for my taste, though I like the concept:
       | https://tincan.kids/
       | 
       | I think it is good to separate the nostalgia from the actual
       | valuable nugget you want to revive. Nostalgia is great for
       | marketing but parsing the missing nugget is the important part.
       | 
       | I have hundreds of CDs I never got rid of and last Christmas I
       | got my son a cheap CD player. Yes, he could have infinite music
       | through Spotify, but what I wanted to give him was that sense of
       | control over music. The physical element has value, which has
       | been appreciated for a while - a lot of that comes from the
       | purposeful interaction required to select, set up and play the
       | music. To listen to entire albums instead of individual songs. An
       | avenue to explore music you only sort of are interested in but
       | give more time because of switching costs.
       | 
       | But more specifically, I remembered the feeling of being a kid
       | and having my own cassette player, walking around with it and
       | bringing music with me. It was one of the first things I owned
       | that could modify my space and change my mood and affect those
       | around me in a positive way. That is a powerful concept when you
       | are little!
       | 
       | I think the missing element of the "old web" is having that sense
       | of control and influence. Not huge control or huge influence, but
       | self-directed and with some friction. Sometimes, the friction is
       | the most important part!
        
       | DudeOpotomus wrote:
       | The old web hid search results from behind paywalls and logins.
       | 
       | New web literally makes Google worthless for 80% of my searches.
       | 
       | q: What will the web / social media be like when the only people
       | using it are idiots and the poor?
        
       | wyclif wrote:
       | NetNewsWire will choke out on you if you have a large number of
       | feeds, because of the way it is designed.
        
         | brycewray wrote:
         | https://netnewswire.com/help/iCloud.html
        
       | cosmicgadget wrote:
       | > In some ways it's bringing back old web rings and simple
       | networking through hyperlinks.
       | 
       | And there are plenty of likeminded individuals, many who have
       | posted here. It may not seem like it because linking with hrefs
       | and webrings is much more fragmented than services that beat you
       | over the head with engagement metrics.
       | 
       | I think the distributed linking model coexists well with
       | centralized resources like:
       | (https://indieseek.xyz/links/internet/blogging/) and
       | (https://outerweb.org/explore/category/indieweb) (mine)
        
       | _DeadFred_ wrote:
       | The old web was people that could afford PCs, a select group, and
       | who knew how/chose to connect to the internet, smaller sub group,
       | plus college students. Then it was people who could afford very
       | expensive toys (iPhone) on expensive phone plans that required
       | credit qualifications. The types of people who are inquisitive,
       | or who have expensive hobbies, or even time/energy for hobbies.
       | There was a time early on when services that normally require
       | some kind of credit check just...didn't... if you used the iPhone
       | app.
       | 
       | Today's internet is wage slaves on prepaid phone plans using apps
       | on cheap cell phones that want a cheap/free distraction from
       | their lives.
        
       | ktosobcy wrote:
       | This:
       | 
       | > Instead it was just people, the whole reason you started in the
       | first place.
        
       | lockranore2 wrote:
       | I was around for the leap from BBS systems to Fidonet; the bad
       | old days when there were no such thing as graphics. I can
       | absolutely sympathize with what's being said here, and for me,
       | there are two primary reasons why I pine for the elder days. The
       | systems then required some effort to gain access to which kept
       | some of the signal to noise loss down (if you know the difference
       | between CB radio and Ham radio, you know what I'm saying), and
       | while commercialism's always been a part of these systems, more
       | value was placed on content than advertising.
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | The first step to "resurrect the old Web" would be to remove the
       | fonts.googleapis.com dependency from your blog. It enables Google
       | to track people across the Internet.
        
         | Kovah wrote:
         | Bunny Fonts is a fully compatible, GDPR-compliant, drop-in
         | replacement for Google Fonts. https://fonts.bunny.net/
        
           | drnick1 wrote:
           | This may be better than Google, but I don't understand why a
           | blog needs a font CDN at all. Just use standard fonts or host
           | them yourself if you really can't do without your
           | SuperCoolFont.
        
         | akho wrote:
         | They also have a youtube in there.
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | I don't have a lot of nostalgia for an "old web". I like the new
       | web. But there are some aspects of the old web that I'd like to
       | see more of. To that end, I've been trying to find ways to make
       | the new web adopt those principles. One of them is ownership: If
       | your friend from school runs the website, you know your data
       | isn't being siphoned up by Big Tech. Lowering the barrier to
       | entry to make a "cool" website (such a small social media
       | platform) is the goal. Back in the day, this meant setting up
       | phpBB. These days, it probably means setting up a Mastodon node.
        
       | skn3 wrote:
       | https://neocities.org
        
       | tolerance wrote:
       | It's hard for me not to read these "old/small web elegies" as
       | coming from people trapped in a kind of perpetual adolescence
       | leading them to contrive impediments to authoring a static
       | website while grieving over a want for community.
       | 
       | I'm curious about the personal lives of the authors of these
       | kinds of posts and whether there's any shades of the film
       | American Beauty in them.
        
       | dinkleberg wrote:
       | It is kind of wild to admit, but the bottom of this article made
       | me think about the fact that RSS readers can be local apps for
       | the first time ever... I've always used hosted services and run
       | my own Miniflux server. But a quick search revealed a nice native
       | linux reader: https://gfeeds.gabmus.org/.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | Blog platforms seem to come and go pursuing this goal. It's funny
       | to think that when Ghost came on to the scene (12 years ago!
       | There goes the time!), it too was all about just blogging
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5625546
       | 
       | I have an old Wordpress blog I used to run and that I backed up
       | but never restored when Hetzner needed to migrate the VM. It's
       | been almost a decade that that backup was taken. I wonder if I
       | will be able to resurrect it. It's somewhere on all these hard
       | drives...
        
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