[HN Gopher] Just let me select text
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Just let me select text
        
       Author : ayoisaiah
       Score  : 685 points
       Date   : 2025-09-24 13:56 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (aartaka.me)
 (TXT) w3m dump (aartaka.me)
        
       | MattDamonSpace wrote:
       | Agreed with the overall sentiment but screenshot+immediate text
       | select on iOS/Mac has solved 99% of my issues here
       | 
       | Technology!
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | Which the OP acknowledges, but it's an extra step (and one that
         | a lot of people don't realize is possible) that shouldn't be
         | necessary.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | Right, the more steps there are in the process, the more
           | people just drop and forget it.
        
       | hyperhello wrote:
       | How are they going to make money letting you do what you want?
        
       | furyofantares wrote:
       | Is it a troll that the text on this page isn't selectable?
       | 
       | edit: It is intentional for sure, the other entries in this blog
       | have selectable text.
        
       | simianparrot wrote:
       | Yet I can't select text on this very blog.
        
         | p0w3n3d wrote:
         | > Whenever you disable text selection/copying on your UI, you
         | commit a crime against the user. [... comprehension ...
         | accessibility ... meaning]
         | 
         | Exquisite bait m'lord!
         | 
         | ... or maybe the word that's connected to hippo and rhymes with
         | "crisy"
        
         | pabs3 wrote:
         | You can select the text by disabling CSS.
        
           | IncreasePosts wrote:
           | Or by visiting a rendering which doesn't support CSS at all:
           | eg https://aartaka.me/select-text.txt
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | This hack is exactly why I do multi-format posts.
        
         | leftnode wrote:
         | I think that's the point...
        
           | simianparrot wrote:
           | I presume so but it adds nothing to the topic sh(V[?]V)S
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | It does add a comic effect, so I consider it quite useful.
        
         | 16bytes wrote:
         | Given that text is selectable elsewhere on the site, I suspect
         | that the author is trying to make a point by that.
        
       | next_xibalba wrote:
       | The irony here being that text cannot be selected in this post...
        
         | Aldipower wrote:
         | I upvoted you. This is really an irony. Hilarious.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | Made it for y'all, it's cool you noticed!
        
       | magnio wrote:
       | On Android, long press home button activates Google Assistant
       | that can OCR the current screen and translate immediately.
       | Unironically one of the only two features keeping me on Android
       | until now.
        
         | Aaargh20318 wrote:
         | On iOS 26 you can do basically the same thing. Take a
         | screenshot (power button + volume up), click the thumbnail of
         | the screenshot that appears. You'll see the screenshot full
         | screen and there is a 'translate' button (along some other AI
         | stuff).
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | macOS does this, too, along with other text manipulation
           | features in screenshots and arbitrary image and video files
           | opened in Preview, QuickTime Player (and apps using an
           | embedded player), and Safari. High quality, local, system-
           | provided OCR is a godsend sometimes.
        
           | cptskippy wrote:
           | Unless the App Developer has chosen to blanket deny
           | screenshots. This is common on view accepting payment
           | information but blanket application is also common.
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | I prefer this easy solution: Print the website (with a
         | printer), take a photo of the printed page, run the photo
         | through OCR software. As simple as that.
        
           | RandomBacon wrote:
           | I prefer this easy solution: Take a photograph of the
           | website, develop the film, send it off to a transcription
           | service, received the printed copy in the mail, take a
           | digital picture of the document, run it through OCR software.
           | As simple as that.
        
             | acheron wrote:
             | Need to make sure you take a picture of it on a wooden
             | table. https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Web_0_0x2e_1
        
         | twism wrote:
         | All text is selectable on the app switcher granted it uses OCR
         | so YMMV
        
           | morsch wrote:
           | I had no idea that was a thing, neat!
        
         | gsa wrote:
         | Like with all things Google, this feature wasn't available in
         | Gemini (or only available on some devices) last I checked. With
         | Gemini going to replace Google Assistant in the future, this is
         | yet another useful feature that Google will be taking away from
         | Android.
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | If you open an image with Google Lens (or select the image in
           | the Google Search app, which seems to result in the same
           | thing) Google does by default an image web search and shows
           | you similar pictures, but it also displays a blue "translate"
           | button on the right, which activates OCR and text selection,
           | and optional translation. Though it doesn't seem possible to
           | avoid it doing the image web search first, which might be
           | problematic for private pictures.
        
             | gsa wrote:
             | That's a very different flow with a much higher friction
             | compared to simply long pressing the home button in any
             | app.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | Yeah. (What would be the equivalent to long pressing the
               | home button when Android gestures are used, and there is
               | no home button?)
        
           | hahn-kev wrote:
           | I use it for translation all the time on my Pixel 7a with
           | Gemini
        
         | nmeofthestate wrote:
         | Interesting. I screenshot then send to Google Lens which is
         | obviously more of a hassle than what you're describing. But I
         | have gestures enabled and so no home button. I wonder what is
         | the gesture-equivalent of long-pressing on home.
        
           | sadeshmukh wrote:
           | Press and hold bottom line - I use it regularly
        
           | DangitBobby wrote:
           | On my Pixel 5, if you swipe from the bottom bar up (as if you
           | are gesturing to close the app), near the bottom some options
           | will appear: Screenshot or Select. The Select mode is an OCR
           | enabled text selection.
        
             | nmeofthestate wrote:
             | This just takes me to the horizontal scrolling list of apps
             | displayed as screenshots of the app. I can swipe from the
             | bottom corner to bring up "Gemini" but that doesn't have an
             | option to OCR the screen. Android is so diverse - people
             | always end up talking about their unique and differing
             | experiences, unfortunately.
        
         | ritzaco wrote:
         | yeah definitely my favourite feature on android too that I use
         | multiple times per day. Unlike the people saying taking a
         | screenshot is basically the same on iOS - no it isn't. This
         | moves the whole display into an ephemeral screenshot and you
         | can copy text, translate, all kinds of things, without the
         | delay of taking a screenshot, or worrying about that file
         | hanging around permanently after.
         | 
         | Super ironic that often images are the most accessible way to
         | share text data these days but that's what enshittification
         | brought us.
        
         | einpoklum wrote:
         | > activates Google Assistant that can OCR the current screen
         | 
         | =>
         | 
         | > activates Google Assistant that can copy a bunch of your
         | personal data for eternal storage with Alphabet, building your
         | personal profile there - with your permission, instead of them
         | having to find some kind of excuse to obtain it
         | 
         | There, I fixed that for you.
        
       | cyphax wrote:
       | It greeted me with a message: "Oh, I see you disabled JavaScript.
       | Keep up the good work, my fellow cleanweb person!" which is an
       | interesting departure from the usual "this app won't work without
       | javascript". But I couldn't select the text from the message to
       | paste it here... while looking at the header above it "Just let
       | me select text" I thought: yeah!
        
         | pabs3 wrote:
         | You can select the text by disabling CSS.
        
           | captn3m0 wrote:
           | or switching to the txt version: https://aartaka.me/select-
           | text.txt
        
       | beastman82 wrote:
       | use android/ gemini circle to search
        
         | KTibow wrote:
         | I can see this comment was downvoted because it doesn't address
         | the main point but Circle to Search is genuinely a good,
         | helpful feature. It allows you to copy or translate text in two
         | or three taps, even faster than if you had selection power, and
         | I hope more platforms add similar functionality (even if just
         | to work around the current terrible state of text selection).
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Not portable across different flavors of Android, but yeah,
         | it's a solution too.
        
       | encom wrote:
       | [Trigger warning: Old man yells at cloud.] One of countless
       | reasons I hate doing anything on my phone. Text selection is
       | imprecise, slow and janky. Text input is slow and error prone,
       | and autocorrect (or predictive text) produces danish with wrong
       | grammar (so does Chrome). It's like using a computer with boxing
       | gloves on. And despite phones now being huge, I prefer my triple
       | monitor desktop. And also most apps are proprietary ad-ridden
       | slop or borderline scams (Tinder, Happn, Hinge certainly leans
       | heavily in that direction. I'd rather die alone than pay them
       | money. I miss Ok-Cupid from 20 years ago.
        
         | RandomBacon wrote:
         | OkCupid sold out to Match, that's why they became crappy.
         | 
         | (OkCupid also had an article saying why you should never pay
         | for online dating, which coincidentally was taken down the same
         | day they were acquired by Match.)
         | 
         | Also, OkCupid gave people different prices based on whether
         | they said they were a man or woman. I wonder if anyone ever
         | sued them in a class action.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | Pure does that pricing thing too, and that kind of makes
           | sense given how disproportionate privilege and
           | "supply/demand" is on dating apps.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | > It's like using a computer with boxing gloves on.
         | 
         | I dunno. Even if I zoom so I can click precisely where I want
         | to select or edit, my phone still insists on doing the
         | operation in another place. And some places are just completely
         | forbidden.
         | 
         | Using a computer with boxing gloves ought to be a lot more
         | precise than that.
        
       | NoraCodes wrote:
       | Given that this page has the following styles which aren't
       | applied anywhere else on the blog:                  body {
       | -webkit-user-select: none;            -webkit-touch-callout:
       | none;            -moz-user-select: none;            -ms-user-
       | select: none;            user-select: none;         }
       | 
       | I think it's safe to assume that being unable to select text on
       | this page is not unintentional, as several comments here assume,
       | nor "ironic", but an intentional effort to demonstrate how
       | annoying this behavior is.
        
         | encom wrote:
         | In uBlock:                   *##html, body, body *:style(user-
         | select: auto !important)
        
           | Koffiepoeder wrote:
           | Wouldn't recommend applying this _everywhere_; the `body *`
           | selector may have a significant performance impact on some
           | pages.
        
             | d1sxeyes wrote:
             | Not any more. All modern browser engines read right to
             | left.
        
         | nananana9 wrote:
         | I don't know why so many comments are discussing "if it's
         | intentional troll or hypocrisy", when it takes 10 seconds to
         | check one of the other blog posts and see if the text there is
         | selectable :(
        
           | miltonlost wrote:
           | Because people don't understand what a joke is sometimes,
           | even on that's obvious like this.
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | Or some people just have a desire to vent of lots of that
             | anger boiling inside them and are just looking for a excuse
             | to shout at something ..
        
               | aartaka wrote:
               | That I can relate to, and that's how some of my blog
               | posts get born. Like this one.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | That's a lot of work, and I don't expect all readers to open
           | more than one page on my blog. But yeah, great that it
           | sparked some debate.
        
         | johanyc wrote:
         | I have a bookmarklet just to deal with this kind of websites
         | lol
        
           | Dilettante_ wrote:
           | Would you share perhaps?
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | Yeah, do share it!
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | Are people these days so dense (i.e. stupid) they couldn't
         | figure out it was a joke by the author?
        
           | kulahan wrote:
           | I recently read something that stated we've never really had
           | more than 30% of students in the US at a level of
           | mathematical understanding where they can tell that 3/4ths
           | and 0.75 are the same thing, conceptually.
           | 
           | I cannot stop thinking about this; it honestly explains so
           | much.
        
             | MPSimmons wrote:
             | I would hope fervently that HackerNews would be subject to
             | selection bias and would be an exception, but who knows.
        
             | latexr wrote:
             | The third-pound burger flopped because consumers failed to
             | understand that one third is bigger than one fourth.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-
             | pound_burger#Marketing_f...
        
               | moralestapia wrote:
               | Thanks for this, wow.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | Should have promoted a quarter-plus-twelfth burger!
               | That's about 37%!
        
               | prmph wrote:
               | Why complicate it: just advertise a fifth
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | With a price markup.
        
               | phkahler wrote:
               | Thank you! I heard that on the radio decades ago but
               | never saw a source to point people to. Wikipedia, who
               | knew?
        
             | ninkendo wrote:
             | That's probably one of those cases where they use two
             | different statistics to assume a conclusion, e.g. maybe
             | only 30% of students pass a particular profiency test, and
             | then add to the fact that that test is the minimum level
             | where fractions/percentages are expected to be known, and
             | combine it to make a scary sounding headline.
             | 
             | You might be right but, citation needed.
        
               | kulahan wrote:
               | Sure: https://www.nagb.gov/naep/mathematics.html
               | 
               | Additionally: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/
               | 
               | 22% of 12th graders are considered proficient in Math.
               | This means:
               | 
               | NAEP Basic - Apply single-step percentages to solve real-
               | world problems.
               | 
               | NAEP Proficient - Analyze information to solve real-world
               | problems with proportional reasoning.
               | 
               | NAEP Advanced - Solve multi-step, real-world problems
               | using percentages.
        
               | yorwba wrote:
               | Specifically, for 12th-grade math, the cut scores are
               | 141/300 for NAEP Basic, 176/300 for NAEP Proficient and
               | 216/300 for NAEP Advanced. https://nces.ed.gov/nationsrep
               | ortcard/mathematics/achieve.as...
               | 
               | The score is an aggregate over questions testing many
               | different skills, so while getting a low score suggests
               | that a student is less skilled, it doesn't immediately
               | tell you which skills they're bad at in particular. So
               | this is exactly the scenario that 'ninkendo was talking
               | about. If you want to know how many students correctly
               | answered a specific question testing a certain skill, you
               | would need the raw disaggregated data, which I don't
               | think NAGB publishes.
               | 
               | I'd like to add that it's intentional that there are
               | substantial numbers of students in each of the four
               | buckets defined by the three thresholds, since the goal
               | is to track the performance of the overall population,
               | not just a few very bad or exceptionally good students.
        
               | kulahan wrote:
               | I should've clarified it was an example, not that
               | literally that one highly particular thing is what all
               | American students are bad at, or that knowing .75 ==
               | 3/4ths == 75% somehow causally affects your future or
               | whatever.
        
             | prmph wrote:
             | Indeed, one thing I keep in mind is that almost all
             | progress, social, technical, political, etc. are wrought by
             | an exceedingly small proportion of people. These are
             | usually the people derided as deviant, nonconforming,
             | abnormal.
             | 
             | Left to the vast majority of "normal" people who want to
             | half-ass everything, there'd be absolutely no progress
             | whatsoever, and what is more, society might actually fall
             | apart.
        
               | aartaka wrote:
               | I like Kandinsky's metaphor of a flying pyramid with
               | progressors at the tip and more down-to-the-earth people
               | at the base. Such a good idea.
        
             | DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote:
             | Even harder to understand that 1 part vinegar and 3 parts
             | olive oil isn't 1/3 vinegar.
        
               | bregma wrote:
               | One cup vinegar and three cups olive oil will give you
               | four cups salad dressing.
        
           | tredre3 wrote:
           | Being unable to get the joke here implies that someone is
           | obtuse or unable to grasp social cues (ie autism-adjacent),
           | not that they are stupid.
           | 
           | Which is further confirmed by the fact that HN's audience
           | skews towards the former and away from the latter.
        
             | dfxm12 wrote:
             | I wouldn't make assumptions. There are a lot of people
             | here...
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | This is a good clarification, thank you.
        
           | tuveson wrote:
           | To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the
           | joke. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid
           | grasp of CSS the joke will go over a typical viewer's head.
           | There's also the author's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly
           | woven into his post - his personal philosophy draws heavily
           | from Chris Coyier's classic blogs, for instance. The fans
           | understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to
           | truly appreciate the depths of this joke, to realise that
           | it's not just funny - it says something deep about LIFE. As a
           | consequence people who criticise being unable to select text
           | within the blog post truly ARE idiots. I'm smirking right now
           | just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching
           | their heads in confusion as Bologov's genius wit unfolds
           | itself in their browsers. What fools.. how I pity them.
           | 
           | And yes, by the way, i DO have a tattoo of the Lobotomized
           | Owl selector. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies'
           | eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that
           | they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower)
           | beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | Nice catch. Luckily I can use uMatrix to disable css and select
         | and copy the post. Oddly the selection is transparent. Firefox
         | Android.
         | 
         | > I'm lonely. Like everyone-ish else. Naturally, I'm on Bumble
        
           | kokanee wrote:
           | No browser extensions necessary, just right click > inspect
           | element > select <body>, then turn off the CSS rules you
           | don't want.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | There are many ways to bypass that. User scripts and user
           | styles too. But the point is delivered: one can disable
           | selection, with just a couple of lines of CSS/JS, and cause a
           | lot of pain for the reader.
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | Yes but the joke is moot, because on the web, you can't really
         | make text non-selectable (you can try, but it can be defeated
         | extremely easily).
         | 
         | In an app, undoing that is pretty much impossible (or at least,
         | above my pay grade).
         | 
         | This is one of a million reasons why apps are so bad.
        
           | zahlman wrote:
           | "Apps" of this sort are absolutely "on the web", and
           | generally use browser engines to display the content. The
           | real distinction IMO is between using a locked-down mobile
           | interface vs. a full browser on a computer with an OS and UI
           | intended to let you have that control.
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | I can pretty much guarantee that an app like Bumble is not
             | a webview wrapper.
        
               | blacksmith_tb wrote:
               | But unlike Hinge, Bumble is usable on desktop (where
               | getting the text would be a lot easier).
        
               | aartaka wrote:
               | You can never know nowadays. But yeah, it must be a
               | native app, at least on iOS with its PWA-hostile
               | policies.
        
           | spullara wrote:
           | on Mac/iOS you can just take a screenshot and then select out
           | of the image.
        
             | baby_souffle wrote:
             | Google pixel devices have had this for years. It's one of
             | the few things that keeps me glued to this platform.
             | 
             | Just push the button to go to the task switch view and as
             | long as the window preview thumbnail isn't blanked out, I
             | can just get the phone to OCR any part of the screen in
             | real time.
        
               | zem wrote:
               | whoa, didn't know I could do that! thanks for the tip.
        
               | sixothree wrote:
               | iPhone has had this for years.
        
               | aartaka wrote:
               | Yeah, and I think it was there for longer than on Pixels.
        
             | MangoToupe wrote:
             | Yup, I've used this for years. See also: not being able to
             | select certain text without clicking a link (say, in a
             | search result).
        
               | Vinnl wrote:
               | Alt+click avoids that in Firefox at least. Blew my mind
               | when I learned about that, and I use it way more often
               | than expected.
        
           | tredre3 wrote:
           | > In an app, undoing that is pretty much impossible (or at
           | least, above my pay grade).
           | 
           | In my experience it is above the average user's pay grade to
           | work around it in a browser too. Even power users will
           | probably give up if the usual ways don't work out (holding
           | alt, browser extension, reader mode). The power-est of users
           | might glimpse at the inspector, but they'll give up if the
           | nodes are obfuscated.
           | 
           | All this to say that with things like Circle To Search or
           | Apple's built-in screenshot OCR nowadays websites and apps
           | are finally on a level playing field when it comes to anyone
           | being able to circumvent text protection.
        
         | zahlman wrote:
         | > nor "ironic", but an intentional effort to demonstrate how
         | annoying
         | 
         | That would in fact be a deliberate use of irony.
        
           | Rendello wrote:
           | I'm reminded of the Archer scene where he explains irony (in
           | the middle of a car chase / gunfight), and then Pam asks:
           | 
           | > Oh. Okay, so then what's satire?
           | 
           | > Nobody really knows!
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaFctEu3ETU
        
         | Martin_Silenus wrote:
         | People's stupidity will always surprise me. I mean... it's such
         | a basic irony trick given the subject matter that it doesn't
         | even deserve to be mentioned, let alone questioned.
        
         | ncallaway wrote:
         | Yep, it's clearly deliberate. It's also annoying enough that
         | I'm not reading the text of the blog.
         | 
         | I hope the author doesn't have any point beyond: "it's annoying
         | to disable text selection"
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | Lol, that's a good proof for my point. And a fun one at that!
           | Thanks.
        
         | jader201 wrote:
         | Within seconds of opening the article, I tried selecting text,
         | and upon realizing that I couldn't, I chuckled, knowing that it
         | _had_ to be intentional.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | It was.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | You're right with your analysis, but I still find this device
         | ironic in addition to what you said.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | We need a browser extension that treats the rendered page as an
       | image, then runs OCR over it, then converts that to something
       | where text can be selected.
       | 
       | Pros: 1. safer (what you see is what you select), 2. also works
       | with images, 3. all text can be selected
        
         | beardyw wrote:
         | That's in Android. Long press the bar at the bottom to get the
         | text in any app, and translate too. Just as you describe.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | This is roughly what reader mode is, no? Safari ships it out of
         | the box, although it's very hit or miss as far as my experience
         | with it goes. But I like the idea.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | I wonder why Apple just doesn't use Readability.js instead of
           | using a really crude set of heuristic they put into their own
           | Reader Mode.
        
         | frizlab wrote:
         | Texts in images are searchable in Safari. Out of the box.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | On iOS and Macs, just take a screenshot and then select the
         | automatically OCR'd text. Works flawlessly.
        
       | morkalork wrote:
       | I run into this whenever I have to (begrudgingly) use
       | Facebook/Instagram for something, it leaves a bad taste in my
       | mouth it's just so blatently anti-user-friendly.
        
       | catapart wrote:
       | As a web dev, I fully agree with this, but with a huge exception:
       | clickable text.
       | 
       | Anything that is meant to be read as content should absolutely,
       | without fail, be selectable and copyable (assuming appropriate
       | permissions).
       | 
       | But stuff like tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles -
       | things meant for the user to click on - can, and usually _should_
       | , prevent text selection. It is super annoying to be clicking
       | back and forth through tabs only to have some text erroneously
       | highlight and then stay that way.
       | 
       | Exceptions to every rule, and to every exception of that rule, of
       | course. But for the most part, allowing text highlighting in
       | those clickable areas is a rough UX.
       | 
       | * note that I did _not_ include anchor links; those are meant to
       | be inline within text content and should therefore be selectable.
        
         | hkon wrote:
         | I disagree. Selection takes priority.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | Totally not, those ahould be selectable too.
        
           | catapart wrote:
           | When text becomes selected, instead of allowing the control
           | to work as expected, the focus cannot move between the
           | elements as expected. It breaks the UX for keyboard-only
           | users. I can appreciate that this is not something everyone
           | has to contend with, but for accessibility's sake, the
           | default behavior should at the very least be mitigated. So
           | you're advocating for either hurting the keyboard experience
           | or injecting javascript to over-manage the experience.
           | 
           | To each their own, but I'd rather neither of those things at
           | the expense of not being able to select "Home", "My Account",
           | "Settings", etc. Shit that nobody actually needs to select
           | anyway.
        
             | huimang wrote:
             | This breaks translation. Text must be selectable.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Good UX means including translations for supported
               | languages, not telling the user "do it yourself by
               | highlighting content".
               | 
               | Not translating entire articles to a language you don't
               | support has the easy remedy of letting people select the
               | text and use third party tools to support their specific
               | use-cases. But not including translations for your
               | clickable content for languages that aren't supported are
               | the literal practical limits of ability. I would rather
               | my apps work for people in languages I do support, with
               | full accessibility (and minimal scripting overhead), than
               | to have them work poorly for keyboard-only users in all
               | languages, regardless of my app's support for them.
               | 
               | Again, we're talking about the stuff that should be
               | iconic. Things that can literally be represented by
               | icons. Buttons and tab headings. Things that you
               | shouldn't actually need translated AT ALL, much less into
               | every single language there is.
        
               | ginko wrote:
               | What about unsupported languages?
        
               | davorak wrote:
               | Even when the language is supported I have had GDPR
               | popups block that language selection. The text in the
               | popup was also not selectable which made it very hard to
               | read what I was or was not agreeing to.
        
               | odo1242 wrote:
               | What would be your ideal solution to the described
               | problem? (Clicking on UI elements selecting text instead
               | of processing the click)
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | I know you're not asking me, but I would really love the
               | "copy" feature added to ALL context menus.
               | 
               | Right clicking a standard anchor element gives you the
               | "copy link" option, but you don't get to copy the word
               | without having it selected. Would be nice to just have a
               | "copy word" feature, for starters. Could even be expanded
               | so that it auto-selects the text after copying it so that
               | if you wanted to copy more than just one word, you could
               | expand the highlight (with the little widgets on mobile,
               | or with keyboard/mouse selection in that one state on
               | desktop) and then get a "copy text" option that copies
               | all of the selected content.
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | It does give you the search this text option.
        
             | djtango wrote:
             | I personally like to click text absent mindedly when I'm
             | reading a bit like holding your finger while reading
             | 
             | Also if you're a non native speaker you want to be able to
             | select the text so you can translate it
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Why would you want to translate "My Account" into another
               | language?
               | 
               | And, more pertinently, why should I support it, at the
               | expense of keyboard-only users?
        
               | Ghoelian wrote:
               | > Why would you want to translate "My Account" into
               | another language?
               | 
               | When you don't know the language or what "My Account"
               | means? Not everyone speaks English.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | And you also can't understand the icon? And the context?
               | And the translations I provided?
        
               | Ukv wrote:
               | A menu with "Wo De Zhang Hu " in it, and often a generic
               | icon or no icon at all, doesn't really have sufficient
               | context to determine what the button means. If the
               | website is already translated into your language then
               | great, but many websites aren't (because it's a small
               | site, or you don't speak one of the most common
               | languages, or it's aimed at a different audience, etc.)
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Ah, so the website had bad UX? I think we've found the
               | issue!
        
               | Ukv wrote:
               | Bad UX is the result, from the combination of disabling
               | text selection and being in a language you don't
               | understand. Ideally both would be fixed - since
               | unselectable text causes UX issues even when in a
               | language I understand (when I want to select as I'm
               | reading to keep place, or copy a partial link, or right
               | click -> search/define a technical term, or copy-paste to
               | tell someone what button to click, etc.)
        
               | djtango wrote:
               | If you want to experience the frustration of text not
               | being text, take a look at one of the main train ticket
               | booking websites in China https://www.12306.cn/index/
               | 
               | Plain old text that can be selected is always going to be
               | the most user friendly to non-native speaker users.
               | 
               | The question then is on the balance of trade offs which
               | user group experience is the one you want to cater more
               | to, non native speakers or keyboard-only users.
               | 
               | Edit: I love how one of the icons is Piao  - perfectly
               | self explanatory to Chinese speakers. Good luck if you
               | don't speak Chinese which goes to show that icons are
               | cultural to some degree
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | What's that behavior?
             | 
             | Do you have an example of a website where selectable text
             | makes keyboard navigation not possible? Could this be a
             | browser problem?
             | 
             | I can tab between links here in HN and it's perfectly also
             | selectable.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Use a mouse to click inside of a word link (like
               | "threads") in the HN header. Try to drag to highlight.
               | Note that the link tries to drag instead of highlighting.
               | This is default behavior for anchors because of the
               | issues that it would otherwise cause with the whole
               | selection API.
               | 
               | Alternatively, set your cursor at the end of the header
               | in the empty space, and drag your mouse backward to
               | highlight the items. At that point, you can highlight the
               | text, because you started in a non-user-select-limited
               | area.
               | 
               | Note that this is _default_ browser behavior. Inspect the
               | styles and see that they have applied no selection
               | styling to those anchors. This is the thing I 'm
               | advocating for. Make the web work like the web works, and
               | disregard people telling you that "everything must be
               | selectable" not because it shouldn't be, but because
               | there are features that expect certain functionality to
               | work well with the other features of the web.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | Then I don't think the article is advocating for what you
               | think it is.
               | 
               | You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse
               | tiles [...] should, prevent text selection".
               | 
               | The website is advocating for not disabling selection,
               | not for enabling in random places.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | I don't think you understand the technical applications
               | that the website is advocating for. I can appreciate that
               | the technicalities are frustrating, but the web works the
               | way it works, for better or worse.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | Nope.
               | 
               | I am saying the web should work the way it is, like
               | Hacker News does, as I already have brought up elsewhere.
               | 
               | You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse
               | tiles [...] should, prevent text selection".
               | 
               | The article is saying the same thing I am. Basically
               | don't do _`user-select: none;`_. The example is itself in
               | the article 's CSS.
        
               | Ukv wrote:
               | > Use a mouse to click inside of a word link (like
               | "threads") in the HN header. Try to drag to highlight.
               | Note that the link tries to drag instead of highlighting.
               | This is default behavior for anchors because of the
               | issues that it would otherwise cause with the whole
               | selection API.
               | 
               | You can drag slightly above/below to select it, or use
               | shift + arrow keys. I personally use a plugin[0] to allow
               | dragging within the text too, and haven't noticed any
               | issues.
               | 
               | [0]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/drag-
               | select-l...
               | 
               | > Note that this is default browser behavior [...] This
               | is the thing I'm advocating for.
               | 
               | If you're just advocating for the default browser
               | behaviour, which does somewhat allow selection of link
               | text, then that may be worth clarifying above - since I
               | think people are interpreting your comments as advocating
               | for those buttons that prevent text selection entirely
               | (and I'm not really sure how else to interpret "the
               | default behavior should at the very least be mitigated").
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | I made myself clear to the other development
               | professionals I was talking to as evidenced by their
               | feedback.
               | 
               | The people who seem to have the most trouble
               | understanding what I'm advocating for are the people who
               | seem to only be taking a user-centric approach to the
               | situation, rather than grappling with the practicalities
               | of the web environment.
               | 
               | At this point, I'm over trying to make anyone understand
               | anything. They'll either get it, when it is relevant for
               | them to get it, or they won't and it won't matter to me
               | or anyone else at all.
               | 
               | In a year, we might have better web functionality or a
               | new built-in browser or OS feature, or any number of
               | other things that could mitigate this specific gripe, so
               | I'm not super concerned about any of it. Those that
               | understand what I'm saying will have better UX for
               | heeding the advice with appropriate exception. And those
               | that don't won't make UX worth using. No worries either
               | way!
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | Try to navigate inside the article, it doesn't work at
               | all.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | The article doesn't have selectable text.
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | Yeah that was the point. Disabling text selection also
               | inhibits cursor movement even without selecting anything.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | I asked "Do you have an example of a website where
               | _selectable text_ makes keyboard navigation not possible
               | " and you provided an website with non-selectable text.
        
         | whstl wrote:
         | 100% disagree.
         | 
         | Not everyone is fluent in every language, and not every website
         | works perfectly with the browser's translator.
         | 
         | There will be situations where people will want to translate
         | that ONE word that is actually in a button or tab, and isn't
         | selectable because someone thought they knew better.
        
           | catapart wrote:
           | _isn 't selectable because it breaks the UX for keyboard-only
           | users.
           | 
           | Has nothing to do with "thinking" anything. It's about
           | testing with accessibility parameters and _knowing* what
           | practical problems occur.
           | 
           | If you really need to translate ONE WORD, it's not that
           | onerous to type it. You're bringing edge-case hypotheticals
           | to a discussion about practical functionality.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | I already asked below, how and where does it break?
             | 
             | Hacker News is fully selectable, and still fully useable
             | with the keyboard.
             | 
             |  _> it 's not that onerous to type it._
             | 
             | Yes it is, if I don't even know what the letters are. Not
             | every country uses the latin alphabet. And not every people
             | coming to latin-alphabet countries know what those letters
             | are.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Give me an example of a real-world use case where this
               | caused you an issue, and I'll show you where their UX
               | design is poorly made, rather than a need for selectable
               | text in a clickable element.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | Sure, I had one recently.
               | 
               | There is a certain page of one of the Bundesagentur fur
               | Arbeit websites that doesn't play well with automatic
               | translation.
               | 
               | I speak B2 level German, but even then some of the
               | technical terms are still complicated or unknown for me.
               | This included one very long German word that was in a BIG
               | RED button and the text in the big red button was not
               | selectable, in the manner described in the article.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | > that doesn't play well with automatic translation.
               | 
               | I think I found your problem. Not sure why you think the
               | solution is to make everything work worse for keyboard
               | users.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | And you still haven't explained why normal-selectable
               | websites like HN itself are bad for keyboard users.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | I use HN from Links daily, on a terminal. It's perfectly
               | usable.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | That's cheating. Terminal is in a sense the ultimate
               | accessibility viewer, but few things work with existing
               | terminal browsers I know of.
               | 
               | Makes me wonder though, if anyone tried to take a SOTA
               | screen reader/accessibility software, and use it to re-
               | render the page purely from the "how the screen reader
               | sees it" perspective (obviously with selectable text)?
        
               | Ukv wrote:
               | Worse in what way? For keyboard use, I want text to be
               | selectable, since I'll often use shift + arrow keys while
               | reading.
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | Hacker news isn't "fully selectable". Just try to
               | highlight the text in the reply/update/submit buttons.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I can select the word "Reply" with no issues
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | Inside the button? Not the link? What OS/Browser?
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | I just tried this with every major OS and browser. I
               | don't think it is possible.
               | 
               | You can highlight the buttons (most times) in Safari on
               | MacOS, but you can't select the text and copy it or
               | translate it.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | You can copy <button>Text</button> in some browsers, but
               | not when it's in <input text="Text">.
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | Yeah, in HN's case:                   <input
               | value="reply" type="submit">
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Sorry, you're correct. It was the link not the button. My
               | brain gets confused talking to people using technical
               | words correctly instead of normies that call the link a
               | button
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | I can select the word reply, like sibling poster said,
               | but also the glyphs.
               | 
               | https://imgur.com/hEDe7Vd
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | Yeah, I removed the "glyphs" thing from my comment,
               | because I realized they were SVG backgrounds, not
               | actually text, but that is a common place to use user-
               | select: none, on elements with font faces that are
               | symbols.
               | 
               | I am curious what operating system you can select text
               | from the buttons on though. I might spin up browserstack
               | to experiment.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | macOS Safari
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | Yeah, I just tried to select text in the button element
               | and translate it specifically or copy it, and it doesn't
               | work. You can highlight it, but you aren't selecting the
               | text.
               | 
               | This is what is copied from the login page, you can see
               | that the button text is missing:
               | 
               | Login
               | 
               | username: password:
               | 
               | Forgot your password?
               | 
               | Create Account
               | 
               | username: password:
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | My fault, I didn't try to copy! I can still select, but
               | sorry for not checking if copy is possible! From your
               | other reply I noticed this!
               | 
               | But yeah, HN isn't the best in this regard :)
               | 
               | Maybe dang will one day consider changing to
               | <button>reply</button>!
        
             | brandonhorst wrote:
             | While I agree with you in general, keep in mind that there
             | are plenty of languages where seeing the characters doesn't
             | give you any info about how to type them. No copy-paste
             | means you'd need to rely on OCR.
        
             | Phemist wrote:
             | I would argue that a word is typable is an edge case,
             | especially dealing with another language. You can type
             | words in basic latin script, sure, but you forget words
             | with letters with diacritics, or even all words in non-
             | latin script. In these cases OCR is also not necessarily
             | reliable.
        
             | klausa wrote:
             | I needed to translate a button on a Chinese website to buy
             | a train ticket three days ago.
             | 
             | How would you have me type it?
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Same way I do: with your OS's on-screen keyboard.
        
               | klausa wrote:
               | Congratulations on being fluent in Hanzi, I guess, but
               | that does not solve a problem for the vast majority of
               | the users.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | I don't even understand it; I just can recognize a
               | character and type it in. The only time I have to do so
               | is in looking at poorly designed firmware sites and stuff
               | like that, but I manage when the developers do not
               | accomodate for me.
               | 
               | But that's not what the topic is. The topic is HOW
               | developers should accomodate users. And I'm simply taking
               | the stance that preventing user selectability is a lesser
               | evil in specific cases than universal selectability,
               | because the former can be mitigated with less scripting
               | overhead than the latter.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | A native Chinese high school graduate is generally
               | expected to know around 3500 characters. A middle school
               | student, 2500-3000.
               | 
               | For Kanji the numbers are around 2136 and 1200 and
               | respectively.
               | 
               | If you know the language, then you don't need this.
               | 
               | But if you're claiming that you can type a random Hanzi
               | or Kanji character you see in an interface without
               | speaking the language, you are either missing something
               | here or not arguing in good faith.
        
               | homebrewer wrote:
               | It's solvable through the handwriting input, although you
               | do need to know the approximate order and direction of
               | strokes or you will get nowhere. I know roughly zero
               | Chinese characters and use this often-ish.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | ...or just don't break the web with
               | accessibility/usability breaking CSS in the first place.
        
             | Arainach wrote:
             | >not that onerous to type it
             | 
             | If the word uses the exact character set on your keyboard,
             | sure. How am I going to type Kanji?
        
               | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
               | by pointing your phone at it
               | 
               | by screenshotting it and copying the text out of the
               | screenshot
               | 
               | by putting a screenshot itself into chatgpt
               | 
               | I'm curious what real world scenario you've imagined
               | yourself in with a kanji button that you don't understand
               | within the rest of a website in kanji that you do
               | understand, but don't know how to type kanji?
        
               | klausa wrote:
               | Would you say any of these are "not that onerous"
               | compared to copying the character?
               | 
               | The argument here isn't that it's _impossible_ to do that
               | with copying disabled, it's that it's _more annoying_.
               | 
               | By providing a list of _more annoying_ ways to do
               | something, you're reinforcing the argument, not refuting
               | it.
        
               | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
               | yes it's absolutely just as easy to screenshot something
               | to my clipboard and paste it, as to try and select text
               | from a button without clicking it.
               | 
               | yes it's absolutely just as easy to point my phone's
               | translate app at the button.
               | 
               | any more questions?
        
               | klausa wrote:
               | We seem to have very different concepts of either what is
               | "easy" or fine motor skills.
               | 
               | I also find it rather difficult to point my phone at
               | itself when trying to translate a word it's currently
               | displaying; but maybe that's also a skill issue.
        
               | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
               | good thing it can take a screenshot then
        
             | petsfed wrote:
             | Yeah, because fuck people who require additional
             | accessibility options, right?
             | 
             | On top of the real concerns around otherwise selectable
             | text in a writing system not supported by the user's
             | keyboard, there's also the issue of whether or not they can
             | even operate enough of a keyboard to transcribe whatever
             | text they want to translate.
        
               | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
               | > Yeah, because fuck people who require additional
               | accessibility options, right?
               | 
               | Just do whatever you want and then listen to your actual
               | users' feedback.
               | 
               | I worked on an application that I had to make button text
               | not selectable because the old people using it kept
               | selecting text on the buttons by mistake instead of
               | clicking/activating the button and getting stuck during a
               | clinical trial.
               | 
               | Should I have left it selectable to pass the HN
               | accessibility shamers purity tests, or listened to the
               | users?
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | Thank you! Feels great to hear from another dev whom
               | clearly has some shared experience with me. I can't count
               | the screen-reader and keyboard-navigation based tickets
               | I've had to field, but when it comes to translations, I
               | haven't had a problem one.
               | 
               | I empathize with translation, as I have to do it to
               | pretty much every chipset firmware documentation I come
               | across. So I just don't really understand where all of
               | these issues are occurring with people not being able to
               | translate stuff. Feels like a lot of people are maybe
               | using a lot of websites that they aren't the target users
               | for...
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | > _Just do whatever you want and then listen to your
               | actual users ' feedback._
               | 
               | That's good advice. But there's an important caveat:
               | _telemetry is not user feedback_.
               | 
               | This is where "data driven" approach often fails in
               | practice: telemetry isn't feedback, it's evidence you
               | gather to help you guess the user feedback in lieu of
               | actually getting it. When that's not understood and given
               | proper care (which is approximately always, because
               | everyone has too little time and too many stakeholders
               | breathing down their necks), it's very easy to just find
               | proof for your own preconceptions in the data stream.
        
               | catapart wrote:
               | lol
               | 
               | Because "I'm not worried about users my application does
               | not support"
               | 
               | I'm sorry you are FORCED to use a bunch of apps that do
               | not seem to respect you as a user. My apps respond to
               | feedback from my users and their accessibility concerns
               | are about selectable text in clickable content, NOT about
               | having difficulty translating my apps. As far as I know,
               | my apps are translated by whatever browser plugins or
               | third-party tools those users who screenshot it for me
               | are using. I only support six languages, but I get a lot
               | of tickets from others, so I'm not sure where all this
               | language stuff becomes an issue, but it doesn't seem to
               | be a problem based on what I'm advocating for.
        
             | myfonj wrote:
             | > If you really need to translate ONE WORD, it's not that
             | onerous to type it.
             | 
             | I'm confident that I can type just a tiny fraction of all
             | Latin characters all world languages use. I'm sure that
             | pretty much any Vietnamese word is way beyond my keyboard
             | layout. No clue about writing any non-Latin script. Can
             | _you_ type any Cyrillic, Kanji, Hebrew, Abjad, ...,
             | character you see?
        
               | dabinat wrote:
               | There are also a bunch of characters in other languages
               | that look identical or almost-identical to ASCII
               | characters. It's very difficult to tell the difference
               | with the naked eye.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | Do me a favor and type this into a translation app without
             | selecting it:Zheng Fu
        
             | JoshTriplett wrote:
             | > If you really need to translate ONE WORD, it's not that
             | onerous to type it.
             | 
             | I just spent several weeks traveling in a country where I
             | have no ability to either type or name any of the
             | characters in the alphabet. Yes, it'd be onerous.
             | 
             | Some of the websites I had to deal with also prevented text
             | selection, or presented text as images.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | It's not about keyboard use, but about people worried those
             | pesky users all just want to steal or plagiarize the
             | intellectual property that is the website.
        
           | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
           | That is a i18n issue with the website itself? Or are you
           | saying you know a good portion of a language, but you aren't
           | fluent, so you read it in whatever the default language is,
           | by default, without translating the page or using it in your
           | native language?
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | Depends. Sometimes I know the language partially, sometimes
             | I can move around using pure context, and other times
             | translation is possible in most pages.
             | 
             | Disabling selection in non-textual parts of websites is
             | unfortunately something that happens quite frequently, but
             | people rarely notice.
             | 
             | This is naturally for websites without i18n. Very common
             | especially in government and public websites.
        
           | throwaway0123_5 wrote:
           | In Firefox my tabs have text, and I frequently rearrange tabs
           | with my cursor. I think this is a pretty common usage pattern
           | (I do it on a daily basis). It would be an enormous pain if
           | most of the area on the tab turned my arrow cursor into an
           | I-beam cursor that I couldn't move the tab with. I checked
           | Chrome and it looks like the tabs work the same way.
           | 
           | While having the text in the tabs is very useful to know what
           | is under them, I don't think I've ever needed to actually
           | copy the tab text. It would be a huge UX downgrade for me
           | (and I think most people) if the tab text was selectable.
           | 
           | Some people might need it to be selectable for accessibility
           | reasons and there should be a toggle for that, but I don't
           | think "absolutely all text everywhere is selectable" is a
           | good default.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | The example I am answering to was prefaced as being by a
             | web dev, so I am only talking about websites here.
             | 
             | For Apps agree, as I can install different ones and pick
             | the language regardless of where I am traveling, etc. And
             | page titles (that go on browser tabs) rarely need
             | selection/translation.
        
               | yreg wrote:
               | Why do you make a difference between tabs in a native app
               | and in a web app? The optimal UX should be the same.
        
               | TuringTest wrote:
               | The essential case where it makes sense for text to be
               | non-selectable is on objects that can be dragged around.
               | You definitely don't want to get the text selected when
               | the user wanted to move its container.
               | 
               | Typically application tabs can be moved or recorded by
               | dragging, and tabs in web pages can't; that would justify
               | a different treatment. But it's because of the different
               | behaviour of the tabs, not the different media
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | That's arguably the problem of the common interaction
             | patterns in GUIs being non-modal. Could've been easily
             | solved early on by having a convention like "holding Meta
             | (Alt) makes all text on screen selectable" and sticking
             | with it.
             | 
             | At this point, it's not even a technical problem anymore -
             | it's a social one. Even if somehow OS and browser vendors
             | all agreed on a scheme like this, copyright industry and
             | security people would scream bloody murder and prevent it
             | from being implemented.
        
           | rustystump wrote:
           | This sounds perhaps a bit rude but it isnt possible to
           | optimize for every possible use case someone somewhere may
           | have. At the end of the day, a line has to be drawn.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | It's not about optimizing, it's about _not_ doing
             | additional work just to break the expected behavior of the
             | web platform. So far there was no explanation of where
             | default behavior breaks keyboard usage, for example, only
             | opinions.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | It's not just about translations, either. Sometimes you want
           | to document or describe to someone where something is on a
           | site. "Click on FooBar, then in the popup saying <<Are you
           | sure FooBar is the right Frob>> check the <<Cheesy Cheese
           | Burger>> checkbox and click OK.
           | 
           | It's much less frustrating when you can copy-paste the damned
           | labels straight off the site/app, than retyping them and
           | hoping you didn't misspell FooBar as FooBaz, leading the
           | other person into deeper trouble rather than helping.
        
         | Sevii wrote:
         | I do not want to have to go into the dev console to copy the
         | text of some random thing you think shouldn't be clickable.
         | It's happened way too many times.
        
         | csmantle wrote:
         | I sometimes shop on Japanese webstores for CDs and merch. Many
         | of these sites are actually where natives buy stuff, so few to
         | no translations are available there. It's a routine for me to
         | copy the Japanese on the nav bar to a translator, then get a
         | list like "Cart <tab> Orders <tab> Account <tab> Help".
         | 
         | Another example for buttons. Assuming I don't speak Chinese,
         | how could I know what "Xia Dan " and "Fan Hui " mean without
         | copy-pasting them into a translator?
        
           | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
           | I think a way to resolve things like this is to have media
           | features.
           | 
           | For example:                 @media(prefers-user-select:
           | all){ * {user-select: all;} }
           | 
           | But that wouldn't guarantee you could select text on an
           | interactive element, plenty of other things could prevent it.
           | 
           | If it was an established known issue, then maybe people would
           | do something like:                  :not(:lang('base-lang'))
           | { * {user-select: all;}  }
           | 
           | It looks like there are plenty of extensions for this:
           | 
           | - https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/user-select-
           | all/aoh...
           | 
           | - https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/enable-user-
           | select/...
           | 
           | - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/select-
           | like-a...
           | 
           | - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-select/
        
             | csmantle wrote:
             | Yeah that's possible for us geeks ;) But UX talks about how
             | _everyone_ interacts with our site. We couldn 't just ask
             | all visitors to be experts.
        
               | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
               | > But UX talks about how everyone interacts
               | 
               | It doesn't. It should, in an ideal world, but it
               | definitely isn't the goal of people who design human-
               | computer interfaces to allow _everyone_ who interacts
               | with a computer to be happy with the way it functions.
        
           | underlipton wrote:
           | Copy-paste obviously makes things easier, but it should be
           | noted that many translate tools let you draw characters these
           | days, and many OCR services can read Chinese characters. But
           | I agree that those are annoying extra steps.
        
             | sib wrote:
             | Not to be argumentative, but the chance of my correctly
             | drawing "Xia Dan " and "Fan Hui " - especially using my
             | finger on a phone screen - rounds to 0.
        
         | Hobadee wrote:
         | Real-world example I use nearly daily: Selecting the nav header
         | that's the ticket number in our ticketing system. I copy-paste
         | the number elsewhere.
         | 
         | Of course there are many other bad design decisions that go
         | into requiring me to do this, but it's still a real example of
         | why all text should be selectable.
        
           | n8m8 wrote:
           | I almost always copy this by double clicking after the `/` in
           | the URL
        
             | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
             | Enter, stage left, ServiceNow hell urls
        
             | grues-dinner wrote:
             | Gitlab has killed this with their slide in issues. If you
             | have an issue open, and you copy the address, it's just a
             | huge unique ID context thing. So you have to scroll to the
             | top and use the little copy link button at the top of the
             | page.
        
           | tetromino_ wrote:
           | Then all those nav headers need to have a little button on
           | the side to open a floating div with copy-pasteable content.
           | Or, if needed - different versions of copy-pasteable content
           | (as a command line for copy-pasting into the terminal, json,
           | etc.)
           | 
           | This is a standard UI convention used by all internal dev
           | tools at my current company.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | Oh don't worry, it's a tooltip, so you can see it, but not
             | copy it.
        
           | Anon1096 wrote:
           | Something I absolutely loved while working at Meta was that
           | basically every internal system has some kind of ticket ID,
           | and more importantly, wherever it's displayed near the top of
           | the page you very likely can click-to-copy it. And the click-
           | to-copy gives you a rich version of the ticket ID that you
           | could paste into Google Docs and have the link to the ticket
           | page embedded already. Really small feature that improved the
           | life of engineers a lot considering how much you're
           | copy/pasting IDs around. It's the type of UX care that I
           | expect ServiceNow type third party systems will never have.
        
             | kuekacang wrote:
             | Recently I've been considering simple click-to-copy button
             | is a bad ux since it can destroy one's clipboard (granted,
             | I'm not using clipboard manager). This might be mitigated
             | with a confirmation before actually replacing the
             | clipboard, but I haven't encountered such implementation.
             | Maybe due to ctc more often appear in tech-related
             | websites.
        
               | mintplant wrote:
               | I highly recommend getting a clipboard manager! They keep
               | a (usually configurable) history of your most recent
               | clipboard items and allow switching the active selection
               | between them.
        
               | p1mrx wrote:
               | Instead of click-to-copy, you could do click-to-
               | highlight, so that "right-click > Copy" highlights the
               | text on right-click if it's not initially selected. There
               | is some subtlety in the logic, because it shouldn't
               | interfere when the user manually selects a substring.
               | 
               | For a demo of click-to-highlight, install IPvFoo and use
               | your mouse in the popup window. See the
               | 'selectWholeAddress' function in
               | https://github.com/pmarks-
               | net/ipvfoo/blob/master/src/popup.j...
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | More OSs should adopt X11 paste from the primary
               | selection. It can safely coexist with a regular
               | clipboard.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | My company has dedicated years of engineering time to add
           | custom "copy" buttons next to text that they spent months to
           | make non-selectable.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | That's why we don't have flying cars.
        
             | mrandish wrote:
             | > text that they spent months to make non-selectable.
             | 
             | Just curious, what was the original reason(s) to make the
             | text non-selectable.
        
         | procaryote wrote:
         | > But stuff like tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse
         | tiles - things meant for the user to click on - can, and
         | usually should, prevent text selection. It is super annoying to
         | be clicking back and forth through tabs only to have some text
         | erroneously highlight and then stay that way.
         | 
         | No.
         | 
         | Outlook mail for example is full of your principle, which means
         | copying a mail address becomes a <<hover over the not-
         | selectable mail address to pop up a contact card, scroll down
         | the contact card to where the mail address shows up again, but
         | is again unselectable, click the "copy to clipboard" icon>>
         | 
         | Just make text selectable.
        
         | sbuttgereit wrote:
         | A case can be made for graphic like elements like buttons, but
         | for text: treat it like text even if it's clickable.
         | 
         | In the Web version of Outlook, there are regularly times where
         | the location of an appointment is a street address. That text
         | is typically clickable. But the click action doesn't correspond
         | to the choice of mapping service I might want to use in any one
         | instance or to the fact that I might have other actions, like
         | copying the address into another email/sms/etc. Outlook
         | followed your philosophy. You can't select and copy that text,
         | save for going through several auxiliary clicks just to get to
         | a spot where you can. It's the most annoying behavior I can
         | imagine.
         | 
         | That you think that you sitting in a meeting room talking it
         | over with colleagues, or perhaps I'm a meeting in your own mind
         | can assign legitimate uses and not, when something other than
         | say security might be at stake, is just wrongheaded.
         | 
         | And by the way, that address being the link that it is is great
         | 60%, 70% of the time. But when it's not it's clearly a design
         | mistake.
        
           | gdwatson wrote:
           | The point isn't that the developer should disable text
           | selection whenever he thinks it's unnecessary, which would
           | indeed be silly. It's that sometimes the user interface rules
           | for navigating selectable text conflict or interfere with the
           | user interface rules for navigating, say, a set of tab panes.
           | In that situation, making the tab titles selectable will
           | cause grief.
           | 
           | I agree with your address example. That is user data, and it
           | should be selectable.
        
             | catapart wrote:
             | I appreciate your understanding!
        
         | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
         | It's always bothered me that links on webpages are single click
         | to open. They should require double clicking to open (like just
         | about everything else on a computer) and single click should be
         | used to start selecting text, like everywhere else on a
         | computer.
        
           | catapart wrote:
           | You know, I've often wondered how much simpler UX would be if
           | this had been the case from the start. Hard to make any
           | predictions, but one can optimistically dream...
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I'm guessing it would be much more disruptive for touch
             | devices. It would definitely reduce the number of erroneous
             | clicks when just trying to touch to scroll the screen.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | A double-click would better represent intent/consent, too,
           | which the web has had long had issues with. Accidentally
           | clicking things is too easy and frequent.
        
           | harshreality wrote:
           | When you run an app from the taskbar or start menu, you
           | single-click on the app icon, or single-click on the Start
           | menu button and then single-click on the app.
           | 
           | Sure, icons on the desktop, or just about anything in a
           | file/app explorer window, require a double-click by default,
           | because the lineage of the main desktop area is just a file
           | explorer window without the window decorations.
           | 
           | I think it might be about stakeholders wanting the web to
           | "feel" more native and interactive. Double-clicking to "go"
           | feels too much like you're interacting with the web as if
           | it's a file browser. They want it to feel more immediate?
           | 
           | In principle I'd prefer the consistency of double-click or
           | double-tap everywhere, but I'm used to adjusting based on
           | context. Wouldn't double-tapping annoy everyone who primarily
           | uses mobile devices?
        
             | cestith wrote:
             | You make some good points here. Even in file managers, one
             | can usually highlight with a single click then use either a
             | context menu or a menu at the top of the application to
             | single-click on things like run, move, copy, or rename. I
             | think the idea of making hyperlinks in hypertext more like
             | a menu than like filesystem resources does make some sense,
             | especially since the browser is an application and single-
             | click within user applications has been pretty normal for a
             | long time. Still, I agree it might have been better if this
             | had gone the other way.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Why would you take the most common interaction on the web and
           | change it to require double the actions with very specific
           | timing?
           | 
           | If consistency between systems is more important than
           | usability, it probably makes more sense to use single click
           | to open in the OS (which has been an option in Windows for 30
           | years).
        
           | Unai wrote:
           | Selecting a link's text is secondary to opening it, so it
           | makes sense that it takes a less direct action to do it. At
           | least on Windows, just hold the "ALT" key to select without a
           | click registering; not so bad, although intuition tells me
           | most people don't know about it.
        
           | Theodores wrote:
           | I am sure that this would have been user tested many decades
           | ago when mice had balls and three buttons. They might have
           | even tested opening links on mouse over, which would be a bit
           | too trigger happy.
           | 
           | Users of just the web are not fully computer literate. The
           | interface is super easy compared to actual programs where you
           | need things like menus, right clicks and full hotkey support.
           | 
           | If I think back to how my mother struggled with computers and
           | how her friends were just as useless, I think they would be
           | stumped with having to double click. Arthritis comes along
           | too, so that generation needed all the help they could get.
           | Generally it was only the advent of online shopping that
           | enabled them to persevere with giving things a go.
        
             | kps wrote:
             | Double-clicking originated with the Macintosh because Jobs
             | wanted a single-button mouse above all else. We're used to
             | it now, but they had training exercises to teach people to
             | double-click because it's undiscoverable and takes
             | practice.
        
           | MPSimmons wrote:
           | Doesn't the click cause the browser to "go" on mouseUp?
           | Selecting is clicking then dragging - this seems like a clear
           | enough difference to me that I've never had problems. In
           | fact, sometimes I will click, and think, "oh I actually don't
           | want to go there" and will drag off the link and release the
           | mouse button and it doesn't take me there.
        
           | lomase wrote:
           | They should require double clicking to open (like just about
           | everything else on a computer)
           | 
           | That is some Windows UI stuff, If I recall correctly in OSX
           | you don't double click as much.
        
         | gdwatson wrote:
         | I agree. The closer to a traditional desktop U.I. you get, the
         | jankier selecting clickable text becomes. For a simple web
         | form, leaving labels selectable is no big deal and probably a
         | win. But for something trying to behave like a tabbed dialog
         | box, it breaks navigation left and right.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | > It is super annoying to be clicking back and forth through
         | tabs only to have some text erroneously highlight and then stay
         | that way.
         | 
         | How do you do this?
         | 
         | > can, and usually should, prevent text selection
         | 
         | Please don't. You're overthinking. Be a better designer by
         | designing less.
        
           | catapart wrote:
           | Ah yes "design less" by "forcing selectability where it is
           | not a feature by default".
           | 
           | I swear, the platitudes are what kills me. Design and publish
           | a site used by professionals and let me know what kind of
           | feedback you get.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | As a long-time web user, some push back. I just want text. Give
         | me clickable links if needed. HTMLv2 was enough for most
         | information, most of the rest is eye candy.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _It is super annoying to be clicking back and forth through
         | tabs only to have some text erroneously highlight and then stay
         | that way._
         | 
         | It's more annoying when your web site won't let me copy a
         | package tracking number to paste into my chosen package
         | tracking program. Maybe I don't want to use your system. Maybe
         | the program I have is better.
         | 
         | Just because a web dev can't think of any reasons someone would
         | want to copy text doesn't mean the reasons don't exist. It just
         | means the developer lacks imagination.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | That is not what they meant and you know it. They were
           | talking about buttons labelled "OK", "Back", or "Confirm".
           | Buttons that wouldn't be selectable in a native app either,
           | but somehow we don't complaints about that here.
        
         | gspencley wrote:
         | I disagree. In a lot of cases text will be clickable, but will
         | also contain content that you want to copy/paste into Wikipedia
         | or a search engine etc. Think annotations (click on this text
         | for more information) or headers/titles that are a proper noun
         | that references something public... like a person's name or a
         | place or a type of object or something.
         | 
         | I don't think that's an "exception." I think that's common
         | enough to make me ask: "please don't make that text not
         | selectable ever."
        
         | nahumba wrote:
         | Do you know how many times i wanted to select the clickable
         | link in google search result?
        
           | kuekacang wrote:
           | Back in the day I requested chrome feature "copy text" in
           | addition to "copy link" on <a> context menu. Now I tried it
           | it's no longer there.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | It's not? Just checked a Chrome instance I had handy, it
             | has all three options in the context menu - "Copy", "Copy
             | link address" and "Copy link to highlight". First one
             | copies text in between <a> ... </a>, second one copies the
             | href attribute, and third one copies the link to page
             | you're on with that weird URL framgment-based arbitrary
             | text anchor/highlight scheme.
             | 
             | All three work on Google search results for me.
        
         | slater wrote:
         | Counterpoint to that is the bizarre "everything must be a
         | link!" state of things on modern websites. Heck, even on hn -
         | click on a user's name in these replies, it goes to their
         | profile page. great! then on that profile page, the user's name
         | is... a link back to the same page.
        
         | sethammons wrote:
         | No, text should be selectable, even when links. The amount of
         | times I've accidentally highlighted instead of clicking? Maybe
         | a couple? The amount of times that frustrated or confused me?
         | Absolutely zero.
         | 
         | I want to select the text of a link and copy the text of a
         | link. I want to do this but I run into issues _daily_, esp. on
         | mobile. PagerDuty app, I'm looking at you! Mobile seems to
         | assume that you, in no world ever, could ever want to select
         | text.
        
           | grues-dinner wrote:
           | Being unable to select text out of a link is absolutely
           | infuriating when you want to just copy a piece of it, either
           | because it's a reference number or something, or you want to
           | translate it. Mobile is nearly impossible, and desktop is
           | also fiddly in many cases.
           | 
           | Often when translating it's easier to just OCR the area with
           | the dictionary app, which is madness when it started as text.
        
             | jayknight wrote:
             | At least in Firefox, holding down alt while selecting let's
             | you do it within a link without triggering a click event.
        
           | tomaskafka wrote:
           | Double click selects text. What to do with web app elements
           | where people double click or rapidly click?
        
             | lomase wrote:
             | Double click selects text.
             | 
             | That is what it should do.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | _* note that I did not include anchor links; those are meant
           | to be inline within text content and should therefore be
           | selectable._
        
         | temporallobe wrote:
         | All text should be selectable (and therefore readable) to
         | support accessibility tools - at least if you're app or site is
         | Section 508 compliant or similar.
        
         | spankalee wrote:
         | This would be a mistake, a common one though.
         | 
         | Instead of disallowing selection on the text with CSS, call
         | `event.preventDefault()` in the click handler. This keeps a
         | click that you handle from triggering the built-in text
         | selection path, but you can still click-and-drag to select
         | text.
        
         | klibertp wrote:
         | As long as you still offer an easy way to highlight the button
         | text.
         | 
         | Triple-click (at least in FF on Linux) highlights paragraphs or
         | other block-elements contents; it should be allowed on things
         | where a single-click does navigation. This would be very out of
         | the way for normal users, but would allow easily and quickly
         | highlighting (and copying) parts of the interface.
        
         | 48terry wrote:
         | I want to share which tabs on this tabpanel are the most
         | interesting for a friend of mine to read. How would you suggest
         | I get their labels?
        
         | silverwind wrote:
         | Accidential drags are can be detected an prevented in JS, which
         | is imho the best solution.
        
         | jmull wrote:
         | Please don't try to second guess what should be
         | selectable/copyable!
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | Ironic, can't select your text either!
        
       | litver wrote:
       | why do you think the German girl wants you to translate her
       | profile?
        
         | oscaracso wrote:
         | That was not implied by the post.
        
           | litver wrote:
           | The post implied the opposite. However, if the German girl
           | writes in German, probably she wants to date in German, the
           | dating platform follows her wish by making it hard to extract
           | the text, translate it, and eventually waste her time.
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | I don't use Bumble or any dating app, but if I saw
             | someone's dating profile on a platform I was already on I
             | might just read it to learn more about it. Even if the
             | person is of no interest to me. Sometimes people put
             | interesting details about their personal life in dating
             | profiles. It's probably not going to lead to a
             | relationship, but it might at least lead me to an
             | interesting topic about another culture to learn about.
             | 
             | In the case that it is in another language, I'd probably
             | just use google translate if I'm not fluent enough in
             | reading the language.
        
             | Reubachi wrote:
             | This is not at all the point of un-selecatable text
             | development.
             | 
             | I don't even want to ask how you came to this example.
             | 
             | Every day this forum becomes more like reddit.
        
               | Dilettante_ wrote:
               | >Every day this forum becomes more like reddit
               | 
               | Ooh, caught one in the wild!
        
               | aartaka wrote:
               | The post used an example of a Bumble match though. So it
               | kind of makes sense one can discuss it alongside the main
               | message.
        
             | a5c11 wrote:
             | Do you have a basic knowledge how those apps work? Both
             | people must swipe right. If the German girl isn't
             | interested in dating with non-German, she can just swipe
             | left. No time wasted.
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | This might be one interpretation, but in my particular case
             | she also set English as the language she can date in. And
             | then, she was visiting Armenia, so it was unlikely she
             | wanted to date in German exclusively.
        
       | calvinmorrison wrote:
       | this is a client issue.
        
       | AlexandrB wrote:
       | I like to idly select text as I'm reading and when it doesn't
       | work it's super annoying. A pox on sites that do this.
        
         | mvanbaak wrote:
         | I do exactly the same thing. thought I was the only weird one.
        
           | freehorse wrote:
           | you too?
        
             | the_lucifer wrote:
             | I triple tap my trackpad (on macOS) to highlight the
             | paragraph I'm reading, then highlight the next one and so
             | on.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | Blessed are the sites that allow symmetric selections, cursed
           | those that make it wonky.
        
         | parpfish wrote:
         | same here. i use it as a kind of mental bookmark as i move down
         | the page because I know that its very, very likely i'll get
         | distracted by somethingand have to temporarily leave the
         | article.
         | 
         | however, this is probably a habit for a minority of users
         | because it only makes sense on desktop. if you're reading on a
         | mobile touchscreen-device this highlight-as-you-go tic just
         | doesn't make sense
        
           | hahn-kev wrote:
           | I'll do it on my phone, but it's usually just over the area I
           | was reading when I decided to look away, so it's not while
           | I'm reading, only if I'm going to go somewhere else first.
        
       | nikeee wrote:
       | I don't like it when non-clickable text isn't selectable either.
       | But this behavior somehow makes it feel more like an actual app
       | (when used in PWAs).
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | The thing that kills me, is that I've had this problem with a
       | stylus ever since Fall Creators Update in Windows.
       | 
       | https://github.com/TheJoeFin/Windows10-Community/issues/17
       | 
       | Fortunately, there is a setting for this in Firefox:
       | 
       | >about:config change:
       | dom.w3c_pointer_events.scroll_by_pen.enabled set it to False.
        
       | qwertytyyuu wrote:
       | Google lens is a god send for this
        
       | gmuslera wrote:
       | And that without counting memes and other graphic version of some
       | text, some even sent by mail, or image captures or whatever of
       | long and sometime critical pieces of text (i.e. certificates).
       | 
       | It was something not specific of mobile apps, it was something
       | present on internet for some decades (specially when bandwidth or
       | mailbox sizes didn't added enough to be a concern to send
       | something as image instead of text).
       | 
       | But in this particular moment of history, we have AIs that can
       | extract the text from an image, do the translation and maybe
       | write an answer about what is there. Or be a new attack vector
       | against AI agents.
        
       | mystraline wrote:
       | Ive asked this before with no answer:
       | 
       | A browser (say, Firefox) is a "User Agent". Agents are supposed
       | to act on our behalf, and in our best interests when ambiguities
       | are present.
       | 
       | So, why are OUR user agents acting on behalf of website operators
       | and their admins and users, and not on our behalf?
       | 
       | Having CSS that prevents usability shouldn't be implemented. Or
       | it should be an easy toggle to turn on/off, without having to
       | resort to Ublock Origin filters.
       | 
       | Same with 'prevention of right-click'. Why is this even
       | implemented?
       | 
       | Or JavaScript also has a lot of onerous calls that are anti-user.
       | I can understand why some of them are needed, but again, should
       | be trivial to toggle.
       | 
       | So, why aren't our agents acting like proper agents?
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | All of those things have some niche use in an element here and
         | there that allows for much better interaction in some kind of
         | site.
         | 
         | I'm honestly at a loss with unselectable text, but for example
         | capturing the right mouse button is very useful for
         | applications.
         | 
         | Anyway, yes, it should be easy to turn those things off site-
         | wide, like it's easy to zoom.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | The one that comes to mind immediately is when you create a
           | draggable element with text it's usually desirable for the
           | user that click-drag moves the element rather than selects
           | the text depending which part you click.
           | 
           | Removing the attribute would probably make things worse, as
           | site operators then overlay transparent elements - making
           | everything even worse than when it was just styled as such.
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | Huh, draggability is a good argument, actually.
        
         | Reubachi wrote:
         | Because browsers and their operators, like any other industry,
         | over time morph to a shareholder driven mess that needs to
         | constantly be integrating with feature/product X.
         | 
         | If the same operator also controls the entire adspace in the
         | web, and has significant impact/input on other connected media
         | devices beyond webbrowsers, what incentive do they have to
         | empower users to "ignore" content, be it ads, ai slop, bad UI?
         | Ther's literally none, the number still goes up revenue wise.
         | 
         | Unavoidable content delivery attached to revenue generation is
         | the present and the future and the only solution is disonnected
         | services/products that aren't tied to dollars.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | Still, it's sad we're in this timeline.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | I know this is a bad answer, but. Web is a multi-stakeholder
         | environment. Publishers and shitty content farms are
         | stakeholders too. So they find a use for selection toggling in
         | their dirty business and push for it.
         | 
         | But in case of text selection toggling, it has likely appeared
         | because of the need to make interactive elements non-
         | inadvertently-selectable. Because complex UIs.
        
       | 3036e4 wrote:
       | Teams refused to let me copy text from the real-time captions,
       | even showing a popup to say it wasn't allowed. But after the
       | meeting in the posted transcript I could copy the same text
       | anyway so not sure why it was so important to prevent me from
       | copying immediately. Very annoying since I wanted that text right
       | then and not later.
        
       | shadowgovt wrote:
       | Oh, God yes.
       | 
       | I've often thought that this is actually a fundamental failure in
       | mouse-and-screen based UI that we sadly didn't catch early enough
       | in the design of the desktop. One of the mouse buttons should be
       | dedicated to text selection and able to select _any_ text.
       | Document contents, browser contents, the text in an error message
       | or a button... It should all be selectable and there should be a
       | dedicated button for it. That frees up the other buttons to only
       | _ever_ mean  "interact with something interactable."
       | 
       | (No suggestions for how we'd do this in touch; touch just has a
       | different metaphor).
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | That's a fun idea, though I realize we're too deep in
         | backwards-looking design to ever fix that.
        
       | setgree wrote:
       | I wonder if Bumble/Hinge/etc. set profiles to be non-searchable
       | as a kind of minimum barrier to doxxing. I have many objections
       | to modern dating apps [0], but there's an actual tradeoff/problem
       | here that they're trying to deal with. I don't think that
       | uploading a screenshot to ChatGPT/Claude to figure out the
       | translation is an unreasonable ask.
       | 
       | [0] https://setharielgreen.com/blog/date-me-docs-obviously/
        
         | stfp wrote:
         | Maybe but it happens in many many other contexts. Especially
         | apps - right now for example in Hipcamp I cannot copy the
         | detailed instructions for my trip. In Airbnb I can copy the
         | entire "house rules" doc but not just an arbitrary paragraph or
         | sentence.
        
         | ertgbnm wrote:
         | This may be the "reason" that they use but I doubt they have
         | done any testing to show that it provides any level of
         | protection and just makes their app less useable. Sounding like
         | a good reason doesn't make it a good reason.
        
       | Jotalea wrote:
       | This is the exact definition of hypocrisy. Though it might be
       | intentional and as a way of making fun of what OP is talking
       | about.
       | 
       | Now to my actual response to this: there is a new official tool
       | for Android devices that allows doing OCR, text selection
       | (including copying), translation and even search, as well as
       | reverse image search and music detection. I'm talking about the
       | Circle to Search feature; it is a great thing wherever you look
       | at it from. Especially for this exact situation.
       | 
       | I wish there were a similar tool for desktop OSes (Linux,
       | windows, macOS) that is as easy to use as CTS.
        
       | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
       | While, IMO, it shouldn't be on the general outline of a document,
       | user-select has good usability improvements when used correctly.
       | It allows for pure CSS implementations of focus driven animations
       | and many, many other things.
        
       | nixosbestos wrote:
       | Airbnb hosts that put textual descriptions with the address, and
       | it only lets you copy the full text. Google Messages doesn't let
       | you select OTP out of the text, you literally have to copy paste
       | it to Gmail, then copy the code out.
       | 
       | Android has a nice feature though, you can go into multitask view
       | and hit "Select" and select any visible text for copy. Except
       | that WHATSAPP BLOCKS IT FOR BUSINESS ACCOUNTS. You know, the kind
       | that are likely in a local language, making it impossible to
       | translate.
       | 
       | I hate tech so much, it makes me irrationally angry. So much busy
       | work to make users' lives markedly WORSE.
        
         | encom wrote:
         | >I hate tech so much, it makes me irrationally angry.
         | 
         | One moment you're rage-posting on HackerNews, next you're
         | authoring a manifesto on a typewriter in a remote cabin in the
         | woods.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | Life goals.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Yeah, all these extra steps for something that should've been
         | native in the first place. Ugh.
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | Same with many "business" websites such as Outlook and Teams.
       | "Inspect element" to copy innerText is already in muscle memory.
        
       | cool-RR wrote:
       | Dating apps are not meant to be efficient, definitely not to
       | someone with a developer mindset.
        
         | bonoboTP wrote:
         | Yeah, you're not supposed to switch to a different app. They
         | want you to stay in the app and engage.
        
           | aartaka wrote:
           | And that sucks.
        
       | thrdbndndn wrote:
       | For websites and webpages, at least on desktop, you can usually
       | do something about it.
       | 
       | But for apps... good luck finding a solution.
       | 
       | At least Twitter, which I use the most, lets you select text.
       | 
       | The one I hate the most is Spotify. Copying the name of a song or
       | an artist is something I do regularly, yet there's no way to do
       | it in the app.
        
         | stahorn wrote:
         | Like that one time the Spotify algorithm found a cool band.
         | Only problem was that they were Chinese. If the name of a band
         | uses some language that's based on some form of the latin
         | alphabet, I can always type something similar to the name and a
         | search engine will find it for me. With Chinese, no chance at
         | all.
        
       | 1718627440 wrote:
       | This also affects navigating the webpage with a cursor (F7 in
       | firefox).
        
       | wishinghand wrote:
       | Instagram is the same way if a link is dropped into the comments.
       | Infuriating.
        
       | Skullfurious wrote:
       | > I'm lonely. Like everyone-ish else. Naturally, I'm on Bumble.
       | 
       | ... alright I see...
       | 
       | >"(Because Tinder is a rape-friendly lure trap.)"
       | 
       | I just sat down. Who the hell starts a conversation off like
       | this?
        
         | dinkleberg wrote:
         | I was surprised to see nobody else commenting on that. A wild
         | start to a post.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | I do. Because that's the truth and a part of my life choices.
        
       | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
       | I have same gripe, but for some apps that provide "non-copyable
       | images" as feature
       | 
       | you're saying that you load images, even store in my cache - but
       | simply disallow same UX you allow on other images? wtf
        
       | qwery wrote:
       | I too am a selector of text. I select text for many valid
       | reasons. I have never selected text for an invalid reason.
       | 
       | A lot of websites include (anti-)features that make it extremely
       | difficult for me to read and this severely limits the amount that
       | I interact with the site. Features that hijack text selection in
       | some way or preventing it entirely for whatever misguided reason
       | are some of the worst offenders. Yes, I realise that not
       | everything is _for me_ -- I am getting that message loud and
       | clear.
       | 
       | Preventing text selection is one of the most egregious and
       | hostile ways to make your software unfriendly, but those
       | insidious "share this quote" popout drawers are slowly fading in
       | right behind it[0], hyperactively reflowing the layout and
       | appending random snippets of selected text to the URL.
       | 
       | Reading is the most basic, most fundamental way to interact with
       | the web. It's fundamental to using software in general. It seems
       | to be necessary to point out that _' reading'_ and _' looking
       | at'_ are not interchangeable terms. Frankly, _designers_ should
       | know better.
       | 
       | [0] Except they're not, because you can't select the text,
       | obviously.
        
       | chrisBob wrote:
       | This is true in so many places. Once a week I get mad at Swagger
       | for this. Why can't I select the endpoint URL?!? Why do I have to
       | retype it when I am trying to discuss it with our backend guy?
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | I love posts like this, they reiterate the fact that people
       | notice many different things about their experience interacting
       | with your website, app, or product.
       | 
       | I often find myself having the tiniest of complaints about using
       | something but never get around to writing about it.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Yeah, that's a really valuable thing to have an affirmation for
         | one's feelings and experiences. Especially when worded well.
        
       | jiehong wrote:
       | It's especially aggravating in mobiles apps, like on iOS such as:
       | 
       | - can't select app reviews text (for translation for example)
       | 
       | - WhatsApp text bubbles don't let you select text inside at all
       | 
       | - WeChat: exact same
       | 
       | Overall, it's also very annoying when apps just don't give you
       | the standard OS options for a field. Like WhatsApp or WeChat does
       | not give you access to the normal contextual menu at all, so no
       | "translate" for your messages outside of what is or isn't
       | supported by the app itself, etc.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | Yeah, all messaging apps seem to have decided that you
         | shouldn't be able to select part of the message. The only
         | option is to copy exactly one message. Not multiple messages,
         | not that one word you want to look up from one message.
         | 
         | I don't know why this is standard but it is very annoying.
        
       | aendruk wrote:
       | The most recent offender I've encountered is some SaaS called
       | Termly which barfs out full terms of service, privacy policies,
       | etc. with this human-hostile "feature". Good luck actually using
       | the contact information they contain.
       | 
       | I added this uBO filter just yesterday:
       | app.termly.io##*:style(user-select: unset !important;)
       | 
       | Of course all the links are `target=_blank` too. I really don't
       | understand the mentality of whomever makes these.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Links with target=_blank are annoying too. I want my click to
         | open in this tab, and ctrl+click to open in new one. Give me mu
         | fucking choice.
        
       | froddd wrote:
       | Interesting choice of example. I would probably have gone with
       | the PayPal or eBay apps, which (on iOS at least) still refuse to
       | let you select the text from the address you have to send the
       | item you've sold to.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Yeah if someone has their bumble bio in a language you don't
         | understand, then well... let's say you're not exactly their
         | target audience.
        
       | socalgal2 wrote:
       | This is why I prefer web apps over native apps. Web defaults to
       | selectable text and text readable by extensions. I can long press
       | on almost any word and pick "Define" if I don't understand a word
       | (or right click on desktop). Native defaults to unselectable text
       | and no extensions.
       | 
       | It's also why I hate Flutter on web. They render text to canvas,
       | suddenly nothing is selectable and so accessibility and
       | definition/translation options don't work.
       | 
       | See https://earth.gooogle.com Click on a city. An info box pops
       | up. Nothing is selectable. Of course a poorly designed HTML info
       | box could do that too but the designer has to go out of their way
       | to make it bad whereas with Flutter (and native in general) the
       | default is bad.
        
         | hombre_fatal wrote:
         | Good point.
         | 
         | Everyone in the comments is talking about websites, but TFA is
         | talking about the iOS Bumble app where it's trivial to
         | unintentionally create unselectable text. e.g. SwiftUI Text
         | components are unselectable by default.
         | 
         | Also, in an iOS app, it's common to decide that interacting
         | with some text should do something like navigate.
         | 
         | IIRC tapping a comment in iOS Apollo (defunct Reddit client)
         | would collapse the comment. If you wanted to make a text
         | selection, the Apollo app developer created a specific text-
         | selection-mode for that. That's how anti-user the norms are on
         | native apps compared to the web.
         | 
         | Often, disabling selection on the web comes from trying to port
         | native app norms to a web app.
        
         | yowmamasita wrote:
         | After I read the article, I went back to HN to search for
         | flutter - the worst thing ever created for web accessibility.
         | Glad to see this comment.
        
       | larodi wrote:
       | Dude is right, most of this non-selectable web can be served as
       | images from a back-end. We have both the server power and network
       | to do it, perhaps is going to be in many cases be faster than all
       | the React/Angular slop on top of simple UIs in 2025.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Accessibility though...
        
       | fainpul wrote:
       | Any plain old TextView on iOS and Android has text selection
       | disabled by default. As a developer, you need to make it
       | selectable explicitly. Apparently Apple and Google want it that
       | way.
        
       | albert_e wrote:
       | Microsoft Copilot for PowerPoint generates decent / passable
       | abstract designs for slides ... but you can't then edit the
       | design elements at all. The appear neither on the slide nor on
       | the underlying master slide.
        
       | iefbr14 wrote:
       | On my system I use a little script coupled to a key that lets you
       | select a graphical area with text in it and it converts it into
       | real text that is placed in the clipboard:
       | 
       | #!/usr/bin/bash
       | 
       | maim -us | tesseract --dpi 145 -l eng - - | xsel -bi
       | 
       | [[ "$(xsel -ob)" ]] || (notify-send "No text found"; ohno)
       | 
       | You wil have to install maim, tesseract and xsel for it to work.
       | 
       | Edit: you can leave out the ohno which is just an audible alarm
       | on my system
        
         | zahlman wrote:
         | I've heard of tesseract and xsel, but what is maim? Seems a bit
         | hard to look up given that it's also a common word.
        
           | fread2281 wrote:
           | https://github.com/naelstrof/maim/ it's a screenshot utility
        
           | suikun wrote:
           | "maim (make image) takes screenshots of your desktop."
           | https://github.com/naelstrof/maim
           | 
           | Found it by searching through the official arch linux
           | packages: https://archlinux.org/packages/ Could also have
           | tried AUR if hadn't found it there :)
        
       | remus wrote:
       | The instagram app is infuriating for this. What possible reason
       | is there for not allowing the user to select text in captions? I
       | just want to put it into google translate so I can get a non-
       | garbage translation of foreign language captions, or look
       | something up on wikipedia, or paste a name in to my contacts,
       | or...
       | 
       | So the workaround on android is to long press the bottom bar,
       | send the screen off to gemini to OCR it, it'll recognise it's
       | foreign language and then translate it for you. What a complete
       | waste of time! You've got these remarkable LLM capabilities at
       | your fingertips, and we're forced to burn energy working around
       | these asinine restrictions for something as simple, as universal
       | and as well understood as copying text.
        
       | cactusplant7374 wrote:
       | I take screenshots of posts on X and have ChatGPT provide
       | critical commentary. It has worked out really well. I am sure
       | translation will work well too.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | That's a terrible use of technology. You can just read that. No
         | need for a forest-burning slop machine there.
        
           | cactusplant7374 wrote:
           | It's actually searching google and referencing newspaper
           | articles. That's very helpful to me and saves me a lot of
           | time.
        
       | noisy_boy wrote:
       | Cigna webpage used to show the submission id in selectable text
       | at the end of claim submission. Then they did a dark pattern and
       | now the submission id is no longer selectable - god forbid the
       | convenience of being able to copy/paste it in my invoice
       | filename. It is like these companies are in a race to see who can
       | embrace the cuntiest practices.
        
       | dejongh wrote:
       | I don't know the bumble app, but it really annoys me that I
       | cannot copy text in reddit and facebook (I am forced to use this
       | app by my daughters hobby). If you dev a mobile app - make sure
       | users can select and copy text!
        
       | cosmojg wrote:
       | I must admit, one of my favorite recent-ish Android[1] features
       | is that all text is made selectable in the app switcher using on-
       | device OCR. Regardless of the app[2], you can just swipe up and
       | start selecting text.
       | 
       | [1] ...at least on the Google Pixel.
       | 
       | [2] ...unless it's a banking app and it blocks permissions for
       | screenshots and similar things.
        
         | pastage wrote:
         | OCR seems to be working on recent Android versions not only
         | Google hardware.
        
           | jayknight wrote:
           | Yep, on my S22, I long-press home and can then circle or
           | swipe text to copy, or translate if needed.
        
         | jadbox wrote:
         | This is my favorite feature on Android next to sideloading.
        
         | svobodovic wrote:
         | Yes, I just wanted to reply the same thing. It's a great
         | feature for these use cases (albeit, I too would like to see
         | more universal or friendlier approach to text-selectability in
         | apps).
         | 
         | Additionally, the text copied in this manner can be instantly
         | opened in Clipboard editor (at least on Google Pixel), and when
         | selected again there, it offers even more contextual options,
         | such as translate in one of your installed apps (like Deepl).
         | 
         | That way, you can translate the "non-selectable" text in a very
         | few short taps.
        
         | bapak wrote:
         | Same for iOS, just not immediately possible. In iOS the new
         | screenshot UI makes it a little easier, before it would need at
         | least 3 taps and a couple of seconds to make it selectable
        
           | al_borland wrote:
           | The OCR in iOS and macOS has been a game changer for me. It
           | seems like such a small thing, but it changes how I work in a
           | big way.
           | 
           | If someone is sharing a webpage, I don't need to ask for the
           | link anymore. Just take a screenshot and click it. I do this
           | multiple times every day.
        
         | digianarchist wrote:
         | On iOS you can create a shortcut to push a screenshot through
         | the built in OCR and copy to clipboard. You need to crop
         | beforehand if you don't want all the text on the screen.
         | 
         | https://imgur.com/a/NctIGsK
        
           | cryptonector wrote:
           | On recent iOS versions it just happens. You try to click on
           | an image in the browser to save it and whoops! you're
           | clicking on text in the image that iOS already OCRed for you.
           | And the Photos app will let you search for OCRed text, and it
           | OCRs _all_ the text without you having to lift a finger.
        
         | abustamam wrote:
         | > unless it's a banking app and it blocks permissions for
         | screenshots and similar things.
         | 
         | Yeah those can fuck all the way off. I'm lucky I have two
         | phones so I can take a photo of my screen and use it for OCR or
         | whatever, but it's ridiculous I have to do that.
         | 
         | I understand that for security purposes they don't want to let
         | you take a screenshot in case of a man in the middle or
         | whatever, but let me risk it. Warn me or something, but let me
         | do it.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | This includes not just images, but text which is part of the
         | app's UI, and not otherwise selectable, right? If so, that is
         | pretty funny. Running advanced machine learning models to
         | extract the data that we already have (but won't let the user
         | access normally).
        
         | averageRoyalty wrote:
         | > unless it's a banking app and it blocks permissions for
         | screenshots and similar things.
         | 
         | Can you not disable this? I just tested on stock iOS, and I can
         | screenshot all of my banking apps.
        
       | dogman1050 wrote:
       | This is why I use webpages instead of apps if possible. Firefox
       | reader mode usually defeats not being able to select and copy.
        
       | chaboud wrote:
       | Making the text on the page not selectable is _chef's kiss_ good.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Glad you noticed!
        
       | zwnow wrote:
       | Im aware about the article but for the small German Bumble
       | example: Do not bother with bios. 99% of them are unfunny copy
       | and paste bs because they cant be bothered to put in actual
       | effort, their like inbox is filled up after half a day anyway.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | There's always hope.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | Screenshot, paste in LLM, select text is my workaround.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | You can use OS-native ways for that, no need to burn forest
         | just for text OCR.
        
       | j1elo wrote:
       | Add this as a favorite/bookmark:
       | javascript:(function(){document.styleSheets[0].insertRule("* {
       | user-select:text !important }", 1);})();
       | 
       | Extra treat: this other one allows to copy text and open the
       | context menu in pages that are written by rats who disable it:
       | javascript:['copy','cut','paste','contextmenu','selectstart'].for
       | Each(e=>document.addEventListener(e,e=>e.stopImmediatePropagation
       | (),true));
        
       | cptskippy wrote:
       | The problem is so prevalent that Microsoft has a PowerToy
       | specifically for OCRing pixels.
       | 
       | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/text-ext...
        
       | wkjagt wrote:
       | I wonder how doable it is to fork a browser and just remove
       | functionality from it, like for example making "user-select"
       | unsupported. Or whatever it is that prevents me from pasting my
       | password in a log in form.
        
         | ZoomStop wrote:
         | Easier to just use a userscript plugin and have it override
         | those settings on every page
        
       | zelphirkalt wrote:
       | I have a habit of selecting and highlighting text on computer
       | screens, while reading. I have no issues tracking lines usually,
       | but somehow I still select and highlight. Maybe it is just easier
       | to track lines this way. When I see some web page, that prevents
       | this, then that website gets a -50 reputation score out of 100 in
       | my book. So if the site is perfect in every other way (almost no
       | site is) then -50 still makes it pretty terrible. If additionally
       | it would actually be useful in other ways to highlight and copy
       | text on a site, then I get really annoyed by web non-sense like
       | that. Similarly I get annoyed, if every pixel is some clickable
       | action trigger.
       | 
       | This is not what hypertext has been created for. Stop making the
       | web into a cesspit of bad accessibility.
        
         | JayShower wrote:
         | I also have the habit and am not sure why. I just find myself
         | double-clicking and highlighting whatever I'm reading. Someone
         | noticed me doing it once and asked if I had a tic.
        
           | marklubi wrote:
           | Similar story for me. With my work, I get pulled in a lot of
           | different directions at seemingly random times. This helps me
           | quickly resume what I was doing.
        
         | mastercheif wrote:
         | I was worried I was the only one who did this. Glad to know I'm
         | not alone out there.
        
         | will_pseudonym wrote:
         | > I have a habit of selecting and highlighting text on computer
         | screens, while reading.
         | 
         | "There are dozens of us!"
        
           | muxator wrote:
           | Hi, fellow compulsive selectors! Thanks, I am no longer
           | feeling alone!
        
             | jonnat wrote:
             | The hardest part is to remember not to do it when sharing
             | screens...
        
               | viridian wrote:
               | I still do it, for emphasis. Never had anyone complain
               | thus far.
        
             | Hard_Space wrote:
             | Glad also to feel justified at last!
        
             | edbaskerville wrote:
             | Me too!
             | 
             | Developed this habit as a kid on a Mac IIcx in 1992. Hard
             | to break.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | Me three, there are many dozens of us!
             | 
             | Compulsive selecting while reading, and hitting CTRL+S
             | every couple seconds while editing documents, are the two
             | "weird" habits I couldn't kick for decades now. Most of the
             | time, I'm not even conscious I'm doing those things; I only
             | notice when the text isn't selectable or the program pops
             | up a modal in response to CTRL+S.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | I vaguely remember hearing an anecdote about how UX
           | researchers love people that read like that (or at least just
           | use their cursor to keep their position while
           | reading/navigating): Camera-free eye tracking telemetry :)
        
           | calmbonsai wrote:
           | Some of us were even actively selecting and highlighting that
           | text as we were reading it! ;)
        
             | aartaka wrote:
             | Hell yeah, I did that!
        
           | mrbonner wrote:
           | Plus knocking on the desk when I finish a sentence, too.
        
           | brongondwana wrote:
           | Join the club, we have compulsive mouse habits.
           | 
           | (am a member of this select club)
        
           | rozap wrote:
           | me too!
        
           | keyworkorange wrote:
           | Seriously! Same! Relieved to know I'm not alone in having
           | this quirk.
        
           | wulfstan wrote:
           | Such a relief! But it drives my wife completely crazy.
        
         | brulard wrote:
         | Same here. And so many pages have stupid popups whenever you
         | select something and more often then not you are just
         | triggering weird actions that you don't really want.
        
           | YeahThisIsMe wrote:
           | That's why NoScript is an absolute necessity to me, even if
           | it takes some time and experience to figure out which script
           | URLs to whitelist to get a usable site.
        
         | AlfredBarnes wrote:
         | One of my ticks is repeatedly highlighting text over and over.
         | I blame years of drone splitting.
         | 
         | It also helps me focus on reading.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | What is drone splitting?
        
             | aiiane wrote:
             | Someone played EVE Online.
        
               | umpalumpaaa wrote:
               | Or StarCraft...
               | 
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11tb1gp/how_c
               | ome...
        
             | lordgilman wrote:
             | In StarCraft you can give individual orders to your initial
             | group of workers (drones) instead of giving them one big
             | group order. It takes only a few seconds for your drones to
             | move to the resources so you only have a few seconds to
             | click and give multiple orders.
        
         | topspin wrote:
         | Same habit. Can't remember when it started. I've caused myself
         | problems doing this.
         | 
         | Some PDF datasheets somehow prevent selection. Deeply annoying.
         | You just know there is some fool calling that shot, thinking
         | their protecting something precious.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | With PDF you can have vector text that isn't detected as
           | text. Some desktop publishing tools layout each glyph
           | individually and the reader may not reconstruct the
           | underlying sentence geometry to base selections on. You can
           | also have scanned bitmap pages with no underlying OCR text
           | layer for the reader to make selections from. PDF text
           | detection and selection is a black art.
        
           | Shorel wrote:
           | I started when using Windows 95.
           | 
           | Selecting stuff allowed me to see if the computer had frozen
           | and required a reboot.
           | 
           | Those where the wild times ;/
        
         | whatamidoingyo wrote:
         | Same here. I was doing it while reading your comment. I imagine
         | there are dozens of other people doing it as well, haha.
        
         | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
         | The modern web has been dissuading me of this habit. I get
         | unreasonably angry when I select some text, only for an
         | engagement pop up to appear, demanding that my selected text be
         | shared with the world via social media. No, how I interact with
         | the page is a private affair.
        
           | tevli wrote:
           | substack is the biggest culprit in this.
        
         | hatthew wrote:
         | relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/1271/
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | Oh my ... Why didn't I know that one earlier? This stuff is
           | also what I do! Like estimating until where to select, to
           | select half of the text, given that the last line ends at 1/3
           | of the line width ...
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | I literally selected your comment as I read it. I do the same.
        
         | a2dam wrote:
         | Same here, I even have a fun mini game in my head where I try
         | to make the selection box beginning line directly up with the
         | end on the row below.
        
           | dutzi wrote:
           | I love you
        
         | fletchowns wrote:
         | I think my text highlighting habit started in the late 90s when
         | the prominent N64 website (what was the name of it??) would
         | have text intentionally "hidden" on the page in the same color
         | as the background, so you had to highlight to see it.
        
           | 1bpp wrote:
           | You might mean N64.com, which later evolved into IGN64/IGN
        
         | narag wrote:
         | Well, yet another compulsive selector here, but:
         | 
         |  _Similarly I get annoyed, if every pixel is some clickable
         | action trigger._
         | 
         | This is the worst. It permeates all kind of GUIs. Windows has
         | this mini preview windows that pop up when you're hovering over
         | the apps in the taskbar. Also if you accidentally hover _over
         | them_ , all the windows are minimized except the one previewed.
         | 
         | Microsoft has systematically terminated _every single way_ of
         | disabling this idiocy.
         | 
         | Using one Windows inside another (vbox) at work is causing me
         | PTSD. I'm no proud of it, but I think I'd use physical violence
         | if I could confront the culprit.
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | > _Using one Windows inside another (vbox) at work is causing
           | me PTSD._
           | 
           | At one time in my life, I might have called you out for bad-
           | taste hyperbole... but no, this kind of thing is _genuinely_
           | traumatising. And that 's ridiculous: what has the world come
           | to, that _desktop operating systems_ are giving people PTSD!?
        
           | lomase wrote:
           | Also if you accidentally hover over them, all the windows are
           | minimized except the one previewed.
           | 
           | This does not happen on my windows machines, must be
           | something configurable, I would hate it.
        
         | system7rocks wrote:
         | I am not alone in this universe???
        
         | bdangubic wrote:
         | I selected and highlighted your comment dozen times while I was
         | reading it :)
        
         | empyrrhicist wrote:
         | I'm doing it _right now_.
        
         | cryptonector wrote:
         | If you do it constantly then it's OCD :) but you don't need OCD
         | for clicking and highlighting text to be a legitimate thing
         | that readers do. So 100% this kind of website you're talking
         | about is utter crap. -50 is not enough.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Totally agreed. I'm often compulsively highlighting things too,
         | and I often get caught in clickable areas. We need proper text
         | content, not this.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | What are example web pages that prevent this for body text? I
         | feel like I've never come across it before, expect TFA which is
         | making a point...
         | 
         | I also can't recall ever coming across a clickable action
         | trigger on every word. Just links that might have some popup
         | action. And I use opt+click to select things within regular
         | links.
         | 
         | I'm genuinely curious because it seems like lots of people are
         | agreeing, and this is not a problem I've ever encountered
         | before. Are there common sites known for this that I just
         | haven't visited?
        
           | __icarus__ wrote:
           | substack and some modern ebook apps such as kindle and Wechat
           | books. When you select a popup appears for highlight, leave a
           | comment, or share.
        
         | aaaronic wrote:
         | Ditto!
        
       | codazoda wrote:
       | Hey Artyom. :P
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Hey Joel, glad to see you here!
        
       | quitit wrote:
       | For websites there are extensions specifically to address this
       | and other terrible behaviours, one such example is Stop The
       | Madness. https://underpassapp.com/StopTheMadness/
       | 
       | It includes a webpage demonstrating the typical behaviours you
       | can correct:
       | 
       | https://underpassapp.com/StopTheMadness/test.html
       | 
       | (The screen capture function also does auto OCR for those pesky
       | apps, even lets you translate it right then and there - no need
       | to go into the photos app as mentioned by the author.)
        
       | thimabi wrote:
       | Besides disabling copying, another annoying practice is when
       | websites hijack the clipboard to add copyright info to copied
       | text fragments.
       | 
       | I can barely understand showing a pop-up to request source
       | attribution when copying content online.
       | 
       | However, actively interfering with things people copy is a big
       | no-no to me. It creates a usability problem where there was none,
       | and probably does little to discourage plagiarism.
        
         | skydhash wrote:
         | I think iBook has that "feature" and that made me, along the
         | ever present store, abandon it as a reader. And it's a nice
         | reader.
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | It's not only text. Images and videos are obfuscated to make
       | copy/downloading harder.
        
       | metalliqaz wrote:
       | One of many examples of the way that UI has backslid in modern
       | times.
       | 
       | I swear, sometimes I think we peaked sometime in the TN3270 days
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | Did the old GUI frameworks allow selecting text though? I had
         | another commenter explain that selectable text is a totally
         | different type of widget than a regular non-selectable text,
         | and a much more involved/heavyweight too!
        
       | jama211 wrote:
       | Just a small note, the ocr stuff they needed to do to get the
       | translation is a step further than needed, the screenshot could
       | just be uploaded directly into the google translate app.
        
         | tcoppola wrote:
         | Well, sure, but that's not too efficient. A screenshot is a
         | couple MB at least while the text is a KB or so.
        
       | indymike wrote:
       | I get a kick out of it when a product manager comes suggesting we
       | diable text selection. "oh, you want to disable the single most
       | usable and powerful interoperability feature in our product?"
       | 
       | "Yeah. Do we really want people leaving our app with their data?"
       | 
       | By leaving, do you mean kicking it off the phone or switching to
       | another app and getting something done?
       | 
       | "Oh, yeah, they are just getting something done. But not in our
       | app. So they are leaving."
       | 
       | I think the problem here is not becoming the Hotel California.
        
         | einpoklum wrote:
         | I can't even check out any time I like because of pop-up
         | notifications :-(
        
           | indymike wrote:
           | They stil got the never leave part right.
        
         | bonoboTP wrote:
         | Disabling right click was one of the most common requests from
         | site owners to webmasters back around 2000. They mostly wanted
         | to prevent "Save as..." on the images, but copying article text
         | out was also part of it.
        
       | somat wrote:
       | I have never seen a "native" toolkit let you select arbitrary
       | text, They should, I think it is the better interface paradigm.
       | but the web is a distinct outlier here.
        
       | 867-5309 wrote:
       | > _title_
       | 
       | > 9 words in: text in a .png
        
       | iLemming wrote:
       | One of the biggest wins in my life that Emacs has granted me is
       | the principle of never sacrificing plain text liberties. I
       | could've probably achieved similar results using other tools, but
       | the way Emacs puts you into that mindset is just on another level
       | of awesome.
       | 
       | Today, I can extract text from any tab in my browser to appear in
       | an Emacs buffer. And it specifically "extracts" the text, it's
       | not operating on the URL - meaning that I don't have to deal with
       | auth, cookies, and other things, it just grabs the .outerHTML of
       | an already rendered page - takes me not even a second. I can do
       | whatever I want with that text - read it with far better
       | readability features, feed it to an LLM, export into formats,
       | grab some parts for my notes, etc.
       | 
       | I can extract transcript from a YT video URL with a press of a
       | key.
       | 
       | Heck, I can even extract text from an image in my clipboard.
       | That's what I do almost every day. My colleague would be showing
       | me stuff through Zoom, I'd run Flameshot to grab a specific
       | portion of the screen, and then run my elisp function - it OCRs
       | the image and puts the results into a buffer.
       | 
       | My advice to you folks: do not ever surrender to the status quo;
       | keep the hacker's mindset; hack your way around computers. You
       | have a finite amount of attention tokens, do not waste them
       | getting angry at the upsetting design of web pages; extract what
       | you need like a boss and move on.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | And then I run into "I don't want to select text" when I'm
       | editing an image that has text/numbers in it. I'm just trying to
       | highlight something or mark the document up.
        
       | mymacbook wrote:
       | I thought I was alone, until today!!
       | 
       | This is what drives crazy when browsing google search results on
       | Mobile Safari!
        
       | jeffwask wrote:
       | The way websites and apps have screwed with copy/paste over the
       | last decade is one of my largest tech pet peeves and I have used
       | a number of extensions to work around this non-sense.
        
       | CM30 wrote:
       | Let's not forget the frustrations of an online system disabling
       | the ability to select anything other than 'all' the text in a
       | paragraph/text area/whatever.
       | 
       | So many times I've needed simplify the data provided by an embed
       | code or share link for some reason (usually a third party
       | integration or API development), only to have found the site
       | forcefully making me select way more than I ever needed to. It
       | doesn't really change anything in the long run (since you can
       | just copy it into any other text editor and get what you need
       | there), but it's still an annoying extra step that shouldn't be
       | needed nonetheless.
        
       | martin-adams wrote:
       | The problem I face with building web apps where the elements are
       | draggable or clickable, is that the browser also selects the
       | text. The easiest solution is to disable text selection.
       | 
       | But I'd love to know if there's a better solution to keep text
       | selection somehow.
        
         | smelendez wrote:
         | This is probably the issue in apps like Bumble--trying to keep
         | the interface ultra simple and clean. Unfortunately the makers
         | of apps like this are thinking in large numbers and not really
         | considering issues like translation.
         | 
         | It may also be to make it harder for users to slip in copy-and-
         | paste references to material on other sites for spam or other
         | purposes. Occasionally I'll see someone list an Instagram or
         | Snapchat ID on a dating site, and they're often doing something
         | at least semi-dodgy.
         | 
         | Another issue might be reducing profile plagiarism.
        
       | sheerun wrote:
       | Another website where you can't post as yourself. What is the
       | point
        
       | Aldipower wrote:
       | Having an example of too much of selectable text. When I copy a
       | YouTube video title and paste it somewhere else suddenly the
       | language code of the text appears in front of the pasted text
       | line. That is also really annoying.
        
       | sheerun wrote:
       | Are you machine?
        
       | panzi wrote:
       | On the web you can most of the time select text. You can at least
       | inspect the element and copy the text that way. But in GUI
       | programs very often you cant. There are these labels that cant be
       | selected or copied. Especially frustrating for error messages. In
       | e.g. KDE you actually can copy error messages! So that is great!
       | I was told that under Windows you _can_ do it simply by pressing
       | Ctrl+C when the message box is open. That isn 't very
       | discoverable. Anyone know if that was always possible in Windows?
       | Last I used was XP.
       | 
       | Also reminds me of that Jonathan Blow video where he fights the
       | Visual Studio debugger and can't copy a value.
        
       | justinator wrote:
       | Screenshot, Copy, New from Clipboard in Preview.app, Tools ->
       | Text Selection, select your text.
       | 
       | Hack the planet.
        
         | exoverito wrote:
         | Awesome! Much appreciated bro.
         | 
         | And yet...
         | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAsh47yWwAAxU1m?format=jpg&name=...
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | Addendum: Just let me save images.
       | 
       | (I can't stand IG for this reason.)
        
       | repple wrote:
       | iOS has been so bad at it; selecting text to copy and then find
       | out the last one or two characters are missing :/
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | Copy/paste restrictions are annoying and don't protect the
       | content in any way as you can always get the text from the HTML
       | source.
       | 
       | Lazy people can also just snap a screenshot and give it to an
       | LLM.
        
       | janj wrote:
       | I can't believe GitHub broke copy/paste for files in a pull
       | request. Now when I highlight a few rows in a file they are
       | unselected and a feedback comment box appears. That used to
       | happen when you click and dragged file line numbers. Breaking
       | find/replace in this way is unacceptable and surprising coming
       | from GitHub.
        
       | a-dub wrote:
       | even more frustrating is when the text is too small, but the ui
       | doesn't allow me to zoom.
       | 
       | sure there's the accessibility zoom, but it's somewhat clunky.
       | zoom and clipboard should be consistent, non-optional and handled
       | by the os ui layer.
        
       | benbristow wrote:
       | For Tinder if you're on desktop you can use the website
       | (tinder.com), don't believe that blocks selecting text.
        
       | byronic wrote:
       | Trying to select the text on the page and it took me a few
       | seconds to get the joke
        
       | miladyincontrol wrote:
       | I know I'm preaching to the choir but it feels like such a fool's
       | errand to do so.
       | 
       | It doesnt stop any of the behaviours they think they are while
       | making their site all the worse for actual users. All it does is
       | give the author the illusion that its protecting their site's
       | content while making the experience noticeably worse.
        
       | schappim wrote:
       | I made/use this to get around the inability to select text:
       | https://github.com/schappim/macOCR
        
       | feelamee wrote:
       | fun fact: I cant select text in this website from phone.. I am
       | use firefox nightly. Selection only works on .txt version of site
        
       | pbasista wrote:
       | When I encounter a website which does not allow text selection,
       | copying or right click, I usually enable the "Absolute Enable
       | Right Click & Copy" browser extension which removes all of these
       | restrictions.
       | 
       | Such restrictive practices, in my opinion, not only make the
       | website less useful to the user. It also intentionally alienates
       | its users.
       | 
       | I cannot think of a rational reason to do something like that.
        
         | bonoboTP wrote:
         | > It also intentionally alienates its users.
         | 
         | Only the tinkerer-type techies. Most people don't understand
         | why right click doesn't work, they don't have a mental model of
         | what is responsible for what and things are often broken in
         | mysterious ways anyway. If users are not alienated by how the
         | web looks without an adblocker (try it once on some mainstream
         | news site or blog or recipe site!), they surely won't be
         | alienated by unselectable text.
         | 
         | The rational reason is to avoid getting their content "stolen",
         | or having the user leave the site to do something else with the
         | saved content.
        
       | trizoza wrote:
       | Yes, Goodreads are next in line to fix this. Whenever I want to
       | copy the name of the book from my read list, so I can purchase
       | it, I can't copy??? Wasn't Goodreads made by book lovers for book
       | lovers? Now it seems like a monopoly app that reached the network
       | effects and DOES NOT CARE anymore.
        
       | mattvr wrote:
       | Many mobile apps encounter this because React Native still
       | doesn't have a good solution for selectable text [0].
       | 
       | Workarounds exist [1], but aren't great for text that spans
       | multiple lines and styles.
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/facebook/react-native/issues/13938
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/bluesky-social/react-native-uitextview
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | A very similar issue is the lack of support for mmb "open tab in
       | new background tab"-click in pages like Twitter. You have to
       | click on the post and open the page for it, instead of deferring
       | the use of that page to later (when more got opened in the
       | background, starting from the main feed).
       | 
       | Or you can't just mmb-click the "Trending in..." clickable to
       | open a trend in a background tab.
        
       | lwhi wrote:
       | Android can do this with a single gesture.
       | 
       | Just sayin' ...
        
       | cprayingmantis wrote:
       | On my iPhone I end up using a screenshot to select text via OCR
       | and copy it from there. It's frustrating when apps like Facebook
       | won't let you copy and paste stuff into Google Maps from a
       | birthday invite.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | I've also found you can just shoot the screenshot into ChatGPT
         | and either ask it to translate or ask questions about it in
         | your native language.
         | 
         | LLMs are arguably better translators since they're kinda built
         | to concern themselves with context, or if it's missing you can
         | just fill it in yourself with the prompt.
         | 
         | (Probably varies per language, I've had good success with going
         | both directions with English and Spanish)
        
       | W0lfEagle wrote:
       | 100% agree and living in a foreign country I have found myself
       | completely reliant on the "circle to search" feature on Android
       | as I'm far too often blocked by text protection and the instant
       | translate is very handy. This has already been mentioned in other
       | comments and I appreciate it is a circumvention of the problem.
       | Just let me circle to search though also (sometimes it is
       | blocked).
        
       | swiftcoder wrote:
       | So the joke here is that the text on the webpage is not
       | selectable, right?
        
       | rotis wrote:
       | Reminds me of one of the stupidest hacks I discovered (In my
       | mind). In one of my previous companies we had many similar Lotus
       | Notes databases and one of them didn't allow to copy text from
       | it. You could paste, I'm sure. You could select the text. But not
       | copy. Turns out you could DRAG the selected text to other window.
       | This copied the text over. So being able to highlight a text may
       | mean you can indeed copy it ;)
        
       | rammer wrote:
       | Bumble nor any dating app like that doesn't want users copying
       | and pasting the profile info externally as a matter of business.
       | 
       | Multiple reasons Could be because they don't want a record of
       | that elsewhere. Like teens sharing with friends.
       | 
       | Don't want people copy pasting text to use on other profiles. So
       | using someone else's account profile story.
       | 
       | The
        
       | tobinfekkes wrote:
       | On the same vein:
       | 
       | Just let me pinch-to-zoom on a webpage (looking at you,
       | substack!)
        
       | Razengan wrote:
       | God I absolutely abhor "UI takeovers":
       | 
       | Not allowing text selection, disabling scrolling where there
       | should be scrolling, disabling autocomplete/text substitutions,
       | or corrupting the Back/Forward buttons...
       | 
       | Websites are guilty of this more often than apps, which usually
       | just do whatever the device OS allows.
       | 
       | Even worse are the outright LIES that even Apple has been guilty
       | of for a while now:
       | 
       | * Refreshing a webpage doesn't really refresh it. (it's less
       | fresh than entering the URL in a new tab/window)
       | 
       | * Going back doesn't really go back. (It loads the URL
       | again..absolutely disgusting on YouTube when you want to go back
       | to an interesting thumbnail you noticed too late, but it's not
       | there anymore)
       | 
       | * Force-quitting an app doesn't really quit it. (Now iOS still
       | gives them a noticeable bit of time to ponder which is annoying
       | when you open that app again right away)
       | 
       | Not to mention the outright privacy and security violations like
       | textboxes that send keystrokes home.
        
         | aartaka wrote:
         | I did write on scrollbars too:
         | https://aartaka.me/scrollbar.html
        
       | dmkii wrote:
       | By far the stupidest version of this to me has been Snowflake's
       | implementation of previews. This is a database, where people
       | preview the content of a table, not in an app, not on a phone,
       | and someone thought it was a good idea to make that an image. I
       | have no idea who ever thought this was a good idea, but here i am
       | constantly tricked into thinking I can select some preview data,
       | only to realise I have to go on a 10 clicks and a SQl query
       | diversion to get it done.
        
       | BrouteMinou wrote:
       | Windows Powertoys, Text Extractor with: Win + Shift + T
       | 
       | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/text-ext...
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | Places that prevent selection completely is not something I
       | encounter that often.
       | 
       | What I do experience regularly is places where selection is
       | broken or unnecessarily fiddly. On iOS I find it often easier to
       | screenshot and select in the image.
       | 
       | Screenshot, select, paste is a much smoother workflow than trying
       | to select what I want three times, failing, selecting too much on
       | one end, not enough on the other, copy, paste in Notes, fixing it
       | up, select and finally copy what I wanted in the first place.
        
         | jowea wrote:
         | I remember seeing at least one site where the result of copying
         | is garbled text.
        
       | Self-Perfection wrote:
       | Using text? How old school! This is not how current generation
       | interacts with computers.
       | 
       | My colleagues frequently send me cli output as screenshots
       | instead of text. They are too accustomed to macOS embedded OCR I
       | presume.
       | 
       | Or how would they share event details on social media. Rarely
       | there is text description, mostly date and time is imprinted on
       | image in Instagram.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | I wish MS Word on Mac had a feature of selecting text. It used to
       | work, but after update I cannot select any text.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-09-24 23:00 UTC)