[HN Gopher] macOS becomes iOS: Safari video controls
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macOS becomes iOS: Safari video controls
Author : latexr
Score : 112 points
Date : 2025-09-20 23:38 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (underpassapp.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (underpassapp.com)
| leakycap wrote:
| Tahoe seems to be so full of straws to break the camel's back for
| so many macOS users who have been slowly annoyed by the grind of
| version ~10.10 to 15.7
| jemmyw wrote:
| I updated a couple of days ago. All the new transparency and
| blur they've added looks really bad. But then I turned on
| "Reduce transparency" and it's fine. There's nothing else new
| or different.
|
| I read a few of the stories on HN about it and was braced for a
| bad experience. But honestly - a few icons changing (don't
| care); the border radius of finder, the only Apple app I use
| much, changing (don't care).
| leakycap wrote:
| I'm glad you didn't find your straw in this version of macOS.
| Your lack of "caring" -as you put it- probably smooths a lot
| of rough edges that might be important to others.
| ddtaylor wrote:
| Just modify the source code for programs you want changes to.
| anon7000 wrote:
| I've seen this in a ton of video players. This is an especially
| bad example. But it's so common for the entire top third of the
| screen to be blurred or darkened just to display a single small
| UI element in a corner. Stupid design.
|
| The reason it's especially stupid for Apple is because half of
| their new design system is about making content front & center.
| internet2000 wrote:
| So they made a change he doesn't like, and that means merging
| macOS with iOS? Non-sequitur.
| rapind wrote:
| It is a pretty dumb change though, let's be honest.
| lapcat wrote:
| > So they made a change he doesn't like, and that means merging
| macOS with iOS? Non-sequitur.
|
| No. The change was made in iOS first, and then the same exact
| change was brought to macOS, as has happened many times now
| over the years.
| ekvintroj wrote:
| I just need one OS and probably you too.
| rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote:
| The whole thing about "merging iOS and macOS" was about combining
| them into a single source code, not a single design system.
|
| This is an irrational and especially dishonest and rant article.
| dimal wrote:
| I've been on Mac for about 30 years. I'm planning my switch to
| Linux (probably KDE) and GrapheneOS. I can't keep giving so much
| money to a company that clearly doesn't have my interests in
| mind.
|
| So much of the ecosystem doesn't "just work" anymore and now
| instead of fixing those issues, they are actively working to make
| my computing experience worse. I've hade enough.
|
| The more I investigate the current state of Linux desktops, the
| more excited I get. It seems like Linux is actually good for
| general use now, and I'll have so many more options to make my
| technology fit me instead of the other way around.
| matthewolfe wrote:
| What exactly doesn't "just work" anymore?
| kcplate wrote:
| Was going to be my question too. Mine works...
| dimal wrote:
| Autocomplete on iOS is a shit show. It regularly
| autocompletes non-grammatical text, which is unforgivable in
| 2025 when we have AI that can write coherent sonnets and
| code. Dictation is still at the same level it was at 10 years
| ago - complete shit. Carplay sometimes randomly starts
| playing music when I get in the car, other times it doesn't.
| My Apple Watch regularly can't find my heart rate, for long
| time periods. The HomePod app and Watch display incorrect
| information about what's playing on HomePods about 50% of the
| time. There's no way to filter text spam. The Messages app on
| MacOS doesn't let you filter by known senders. If you delete
| a text thread on iOS, it doesn't delete it on MacOS, so my
| desktop messages are cluttered with fucking donation requests
| from PACs. Try to do anything with Siri, even simple things
| like playing a song. It still makes bizarre mistakes. It
| can't answer basic questions about my calendar.
|
| The list is endless, really. Everything looks "delightful" as
| fuck. Mac and iOS fonts, colors and text padding are
| immaculate, so it gives the impression of solidity and
| competence that isn't really there. A lot of things "mostly
| work" but aren't reliable, so I can't rely on them. They can
| list them as "features" but if I can't rely on them, I can't
| use them, because I don't want to deal with constant
| frustration. They act like all their systems are this one
| integrated whole that works well together, but it doesn't.
|
| I don't think that everything will "just work" on Linux, but
| at least I won't be paying a premium for the privilege of
| having my needs as a disabled person ignored. I'll be able to
| customize my experience to meet my basic accessibility needs
| without fighting against a company that seems to hate me.
| seec wrote:
| Siri has always been a shitshow for sure. I basically use
| it for timers and even that it fucks up a non-negligible
| number of times. For the few experiences I've had with it,
| at least Google assistant is a lot more reliable.
|
| I also noticed worsened reliability in the heart rate
| tracking of my Apple Watch in recent workouts. It must have
| happened in one of the recent updates because it was fine
| previously. I could say it's programmed obsolescence but
| I'm sure I would be accused of conspiracy theory. But it is
| hard to interpret the failing reliability otherwise when it
| suspiciously happens after updates and around new hardware
| release. In any case, I don't think the Apple Watch is a
| very good product for the price, so whatever, the next
| watch will be focused on sports and the competition has
| made great alternatives.
|
| I completely share the sentiment that everything looks good
| but doesn't work that well in practice. There are so many
| random issues that make the hardware prices very
| unpalatable.
|
| Ah well, everything changes, not always for the better. The
| pain is in transitioning to something else, but that's
| something that is very true for most tech related things
| since we can't ever agree on proper standardisation.
| DangitBobby wrote:
| > Carplay sometimes randomly starts playing music when I
| get in the car, other times it doesn't.
|
| Android Auto does the same thing for me, despite having
| auto-play disabled. One possible explanation I've seen
| online is that some infotainment systems send an
| unsolicited "play" signal to your device. For Android that
| seems to mean it will send "play" to the most recently used
| app that supports audio playback.
| gs17 wrote:
| > Autocomplete on iOS is a shit show. It regularly
| autocompletes non-grammatical text
|
| Android has the same issue with Google's keyboard, which
| will go back and change things you've typed correctly to be
| obviously wrong for no clear reason. I swear it used to
| work much better.
|
| At least on Android alternative keyboards are easier to
| use. I have no idea how they both have such an awful
| implementation of it.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| Can't go to previous track when "autoplay" is enabled in
| Apple Music. Clearly an intentional choice. Works on iPhone.
| But on Mac it doesn't "just work". Syncing my music library
| with Apple Music doesn't "just work" anymore either. Some
| albums are visible, but are greyed out and can't be played.
| Time Machine hasn't "just worked" in several years - would
| corrupt my backups and have to re-create from scratch every
| week or so, I've switched to Carbon Copy Cloner. Non high-DPI
| displays don't "just work" anymore. The forward button in
| Finder, the icons in Music settings, all squished
| horizontally like it's someone's first time adding clipart to
| a Power Point. Safari stopped "just working" with 26.0, now
| opening a new tab or typing into the search bar randomly
| presents me with a 1-5s delay - or sometimes the whole thing
| hangs. I could go on, I don't dare upgrade to Tahoe - it's
| death by a thousand cuts.
|
| Edit: LOL, how could I forget Siri. I don't use it often -
| generally only in the car to switch music - but it's terrible
| at understanding what song/album I'm asking for. Tried
| repeatedly to get it to play the "Mob Song" from Beauty and
| the Beast and I got some death metal instead. Completely
| useless.
| acephal wrote:
| Last I touched a Linux desktop was 10+ years ago and you had to
| muck about with FontConfig and third-party config packages to
| even come close to Windows or macOS type rendering. Has this
| seen significant improvement?
| cosmic_cheese wrote:
| Don't quote me, but if I recall some number of years ago
| there were some font shaping/AA patents that expired and so
| good font rendering comes out of the box in most cases these
| days. Used to be only Ubuntu shipped like that.
| stefanfisk wrote:
| This was my experience when trying to get fonts to look good
| in Ubuntu about a year ago. FontConfig, Gnome and of course
| some individual apps like browsers all have their own little
| settings for font rendering that interact in weird and not so
| wonderful ways.
|
| I recently switched from Chrome to Firefox and realized that
| kerning is completely broken. I can only assume that it's
| because of some setting that I changed but I'd rather
| reinstall the whole machine than go on a wild goose chase...
| mitchell209 wrote:
| I uninstalled my Bazzite partition because of the text.
| Initial searches showed similar frustrations on reddit
| without obvious and immediate fixes, so I decided to cut my
| losses and go back to using Windows full time instead of
| spending hours or days trying to get the rendering to an
| acceptable level.
| cassianoleal wrote:
| I run Debian with KDE on Wayland on my desktop PC. Font
| rendering seems perfectly fine. I can't speak for other
| combos.
| cosmic_cheese wrote:
| I want to be excited about Linux, but as a long time Mac user
| (started in the 90s) I don't feel like there's a desktop
| environment for me. I've used GNOME and KDE on and off for
| years with some Cinnamon, elementary/Pantheon, and minimalist
| WM thrown in for good measure, and none of them cut it. The big
| DEs are much closer to Windows or mobile operating systems than
| anything else.
|
| And that doesn't even get into the hardware situation, where
| the number of laptops with long battery life and everything
| working without quirks can seemingly be counted on one hand.
| dustbunny wrote:
| I've been happily on cinnamon for years and find it similar
| to Mac but with way better window tiling out the box.
|
| What's wrong with cinnamon for you?
| cosmic_cheese wrote:
| Cinnamon gets a lot right and has some Mac-like aspects,
| like how the UI in its apps are laid out, but as a whole
| it's more comparable to Windows with its taskbar, windowing
| model, no global menubar, and Control-based key shortcuts
| among other things.
| dustbunny wrote:
| Cinnamon is like if Microsoft hired apples design
| department and gave them control of windows.
| ksec wrote:
| You may want to give Omarchy a try. Not exactly Windows or
| Mac, but last time I checked myself 95 to 99% of my time on
| computer is spending inside a browser I think a lot of the
| old Desktop environment habits no longer matter as much.
|
| https://omarchy.org
| cosmic_cheese wrote:
| It's nice, based on the demo video I watched but I'm not
| spending lots of time in web apps or terminals.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| It's not a matter of Linux conforming to the way you use a
| computer, it is rather you who have adapted to the most
| viable computing experience which Linux offers, which is
| being inside the browser all the time. You are serving the
| computer, instead of the computer serving you.
| nullpoint420 wrote:
| GNOME with DashToDock and BlurMyShell on Fedora Workstation.
|
| Trust me, it's macOS enough. I switched from a 16" M2 Max MBP
| to a HP Elitebook G1A Ultra with Fedora. It's been a dream.
| happymellon wrote:
| I always have to set the dock to auto-hide on my Macs.
| Having a dock that fucks off in Gnome is great.
| endemic wrote:
| half joking: https://www.windowmaker.org
|
| the laptop battery life issue is a real thing -- I kicked the
| can by getting an M1 MacBook Pro instead of a Framework for
| my most recent upgrade.
| dangus wrote:
| I'm very happy with KDE Plasma. Just switched from a MacBook
| Pro to a Framework.
|
| I'm shocked at how much "just works" like a Mac. It wasn't
| like this even a short amount of time ago.
|
| I'm really happy with the hardware too and all it needs is
| more battery life. Nothing an external battery doesn't solve
| (and the framework is a lighter machine so the difference is
| moot).
|
| Everything works. Fingerprint reader authenticating
| commercial apps like 1Password, graphics drivers are a part
| of the kernel and I'm enjoying Windows games on Steam,
| firmware gets updates from the OS instead of messing around
| in the BIOS like on Windows, KDE Connect is like AirDrop for
| Linux, it's literally a better experience than Windows and
| Mac if you ask me.
|
| I don't mind that KDE resembles Windows, I personally think
| it's a lot like Windows but without the dumbassery. And of
| course you can theme it and change settings to have it act
| more like a Mac (or go with Gnome).
| nathan_compton wrote:
| I guess for me having control of the machine is worth a lot
| of little inconveniences.
| cosmic_cheese wrote:
| For me it's more than a little inconvenience. Switching to
| Linux represents turning my ability to be productive on a
| computer totally upside down, tossing out decades of flow
| building and muscle memory.
|
| As for battery life, it being crappy makes me wonder why
| I'm even bothering with laptops at all. More than half of
| their selling point is being portable, which needing to be
| tethered frequently heavily impinges upon. The sacrifices
| that come with the portable form factor just aren't worth
| it for 3-5h life with real world usage.
| kergonath wrote:
| > want to be excited about Linux, but as a long time Mac user
| (started in the 90s) I don't feel like there's a desktop
| environment for me.
|
| I can confirm that there is nothing that comes close. Gnome
| is an abomination even if it might be appealing on the
| surface. KDE is still very rough around the edges, despite
| making a lot of progress with each version. I used XFCE for a
| long time because it can be tweaked to a reasonably useable
| state and it is light on resources. KDE can be occasionally
| dog slow on a $12k workstation with a 64-core Threadripper
| pro and 256 GB of RAM for a reason I cannot imagine. Using my
| Mac Studio is a much better experience overall.
| willis936 wrote:
| Try to use GNOME to drive a variable refresh rate display
| challenge (impossible).
|
| Jabs aside, GNOME is pretty nice compared to where it used
| to be. Everything still takes a few iterations of touching,
| but not as many as it used to. Some things are
| frustratingly unsolvable (see: advanced monitor features),
| but at least it is a full replacement for Windows on the
| same hardware. Oh, and contemporary linux distress have
| audio drivers that appear to work out of the box without
| having to build the kernel.
|
| When it comes to laptops: it'd be great if anyone made
| something that competes with a MacBook. It's been a long
| time. At this point I can only assume there is an economic
| reason rather than a technical one that Windows and Linux
| laptops are so bad.
| whynotminot wrote:
| It's comical how you can copy and paste these same comments
| anytime there's been a new macOS for probably the last 10 or so
| years. Hell maybe longer.
|
| Every. Single. Year. "Apple is taking away my laptop I'm
| switching to Linux."
|
| I'm grateful to you all though -- I think your constant griping
| every year probably does at least apply some pressure on Apple
| to focus on keeping macOS good at what it does: provide a
| pleasant but still powerful desktop experience for those who
| just want to do stuff and not spend hours under the hood making
| some Linux flavor usable.
| cadamsdotcom wrote:
| Apple internally must be a constant battle between those who want
| to unify iOS and macOS and those who understand they're different
| systems with different purposes, and need different treatment.
|
| Craig Federighi was a strong proponent of the latter camp but
| maybe he's just getting on in years. Goes to show that key people
| being good and caring a lot can be all that stops things from
| backsliding.
|
| So the battle for macOS is being slowly lost. Lucky we have KDE.
|
| If it keeps going this way my next laptop won't have that fruit
| logo. And that is a real shame.
| rapind wrote:
| I remember many years ago (Snow Leopard) I liked Apple's OS
| enough to build a hackintosh, because the hardware wasn't great
| (subjective opinion).
|
| Now I like the hardware enough, but have been gradually annoyed
| enough with the OS that I'd much rather be running Linux. At
| least I can just turn off most of the "modern" features, but
| I'm in that "keeping an eye out for potential alternatives"
| phase.
| happymellon wrote:
| I've been quite frustrated today with my Jabra headset
| constantly triggering Apple Music.
|
| There are plenty of mandatory features we unfortunately can't
| uninstall. I can't think of a scenario where I want Apple
| music on my work laptop.
| 1bpp wrote:
| I use https://github.com/tombonez/noTunes to fix this
| "feature"
| sumuyuda wrote:
| Mojave was the last macOS version that had any features I cared
| about. Now each release is about how bad did they trash the
| macOS UI. Switching to Linux has been great.
| antinomicus wrote:
| I'd love to switch to Linux but it seems impossible as
| someone who relies on macOS / logic for music production. I'm
| in too deep and feel like the floor is coming out from under
| me with all these insane changes and the direction Apple is
| taking
| rvrb wrote:
| I know they're different workflows entirely, but you could
| start dabbling with Bitwig, which is really good and runs
| on both macOS and Linux, then eventually switch when you
| feel like you're out of the workflow hole
|
| But to be honest, I'm still using Bitwig on a Mac for my
| studio despite having switched everywhere else to Linux
| ben_w wrote:
| For me, it was Mountain Lion. Otherwise, much the same.
| imglorp wrote:
| How are the ARM Linux on Mac projects going? Does anybody
| daily drive those yet?
| galad87 wrote:
| Actually lately iPadOS is the one getting most of its features
| from macOS. iPadOS 26 introduced a menu bar, just like macOS,
| and a new windows manager that's just the same as macOS.
| radley wrote:
| I feel like this is more of a calculated step towards
| eliminating macOS, because iPadOS can do "everything" too.
|
| I expect it will happen within a few years after Xcode for
| iPad is released. MacOS is simply too open for Apple's
| business goals.
| SirMaster wrote:
| Do you really think that Apple would alienate the big
| creative industries like Hollywood movie studios who use
| macOS?
|
| Or do you really think that all their apps and toolsets
| will run on whatever you are saying is the future of macOS.
| WorldPeas wrote:
| Those are more likely to continue working as they mostly
| work within the lines defined by the apple developer
| spec. The most likely workflows to break are those of
| programmers, as they require frequent execution of
| untrusted binaries and access to the system directories
| in some cases
| b_e_n_t_o_n wrote:
| I think this change makes sense on both platforms. If you're
| gonna use it as an example of why merging the platforms is bad,
| I think you just strengthen the opposite argument.
| throwaway13337 wrote:
| I recently went down a rabbit hole on how researchers make mice
| depressed so they can test antidepressants on them. The short
| answer is they disrupt the mouse's environment in ways that are
| unpredictable and uncontrollable. It's a standard protocol. We
| know that this causes depression.
|
| The culture of products not under the control of the customer
| does the same thing. A culture that sees this as normal is a
| depressed culture.
|
| To test whether the mice are depressed, researchers give them
| something rewarding that requires a little effort to get (e.g.,
| sugary water vs. plain water).
|
| The depressed mice give up. They are apathetic.
|
| I imagine the mice believe that there is no way to change things.
| That might be true for the mice but it's not true for us.
| woah wrote:
| I imagine the mice would be far more depressed if they had to
| get trackpad drivers to work and give a good response on Linux
| yogorenapan wrote:
| There are laptops that work with Linux and ones that don't.
| Nobody is forcing you to use it on a device that isn't
| supported
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| > The short answer is they disrupt the mouse's environment in
| ways that are unpredictable and uncontrollable.
|
| For example like will my wifi work today. Will my laptop still
| have any battery when I open it. Is today the day I surprise
| boot to tty and have to figure out what changed before I can
| start working.
|
| I'll stick with the year-to-year unpredictability of apple over
| the day-to-day unpredictability of linux.
| StopDisinfo910 wrote:
| Linux doesn't magically update itself. If it works today,
| it's going to work tomorrow unless you break it.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Alas the cross of a dumbass programmer is a heavy one. I
| need an OS that is harder to break I reckon.
| b_e_n_t_o_n wrote:
| I too am especially prone to breaking my OS, as well as
| the software that runs on it. You aren't alone lol.
| cosmic_cheese wrote:
| I dunno about that. Bleeding edge distros like Arch are
| infamous for breaking in random ways for those updating
| without paying attention and even distros that are
| considered more stable like Fedora and Ubuntu can from time
| to time break drivers or random smaller things. Definitely
| a YMMV sort of thing.
| kergonath wrote:
| What are we going to do, then? Stop updating the OS and
| accumulate security issues? Stop doing anything that might
| possible touch an obscure config file somewhere in the
| bowels of the OS? It's just unrealistic. "Do not update"
| cannot be a solution, it's worse than the problem it is
| supposed to solve.
| ryanjshaw wrote:
| Not sure what point you're making, are you saying to never
| update your system?
|
| Not updating your system is not a magic solution either. I
| ran Linux Mint for 9mo and twice during that time I ended
| up in a bizarre situation:
|
| 1. the menu bar, or whatever it's called (taskbar/dock
| equivalent) had disappeared on boot and I spent about 2
| hours trying to get it back
|
| 2. the system simply wouldn't boot into Cinnamon anymore; I
| ended up reinstalling
|
| Bought a MBP and while it has some annoying quirks I don't
| have any crazy ruined-my-day issues anymore.
| chuckadams wrote:
| Use an immutable distro like Bluefin or Aurora and you can
| just boot to yesterday's version.
|
| (macOS is my daily driver too, but I wouldn't mind having
| that feature)
| fpsvogel wrote:
| Agreed. If I weren't a computer nerd I probably wouldn't feel
| this way, but on Linux I feel more empowered. Even if there are
| more things to tweak/fix (which is not necessarily true these
| days), there IS probably a way to do it.
|
| On MacOS, I more often have to give up and live with the
| annoyances.
|
| Hardware is the the big exception. None of my PCs have had
| nearly as good build quality or battery life (on Linux, at
| least) as a Macbook. Maybe I should try a Framework.
| kergonath wrote:
| > If I weren't a computer nerd I probably wouldn't feel this
| way, but on Linux I feel more empowered
|
| There are also more footguns and rabbit holes. Overall, I am
| about as happy with Linux than with macOS (I use both daily),
| but I would not say that one is really more empowering than
| the other.
|
| I like tinkering with KDE but it's full of inconsistencies
| and instability in a way than even the worst Finder I've used
| was not (e.g. the whole desktop freezing when adding a widget
| to the desktop with a brand new install). Never mind the
| Russian roulette that is updating nVidia's drivers.
|
| On the other hand on macOS it's easier to get to things that
| are actually productive.
| octo888 wrote:
| I also hate how the controls are on top of the content, on eg
| desktop and QuickTime. I want to see the entire frame when
| scrubbing.
| seec wrote:
| Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. That
| definitely makes it a less desirable desktop OS.
|
| Today when you generate a PDF from you own content (from Apple
| Notes app) you are asked about opening links you click on. I
| thought that they were surely joking and there would be a way to
| disable that behavior. But no, this is intended and there is no
| way to disable that. It makes the Preview app a pain in the ass
| as a PDF reader, which means you have to replace it and begs the
| question of even using Apple software in the first place.
|
| The answer is that there are fewer and fewer reasons. I mean if
| you are OK feeling like a child biking around on a cycle with
| training wheels while an overbearing parent keeps nagging you, it
| might be for you. Otherwise, the experience is really more like a
| prison/walled garden and the funny thing is that you paid for it
| !
| mmmlinux wrote:
| last time i tried to set up a new android phone. the built in
| phone app asked me permissions to use the built in contacts
| app.
|
| people complain if the apps don't all have fine grained
| permissions. and then complain when they have to agree to stuff
| all the time. and then complain they got "hacked". damned if
| you do, damned if you don't.
| DangitBobby wrote:
| Implementation is the issue. They often forget your settings
| between updates. This is particularly bad on MacOS. MacOS
| updates and app updates both require me to re-grant
| permissions for the nth time! Then there's the separate issue
| of must-have apps requesting permissions they have no
| business asking for and refusing to function correctly
| without, and other must-have apps abusing their access for
| purposes not strictly limited to in-app functionality.
| devinprater wrote:
| Which makes it even more important for Google to take
| accessibility seriously so that disabled people aren't stuck
| being the only ones that have a hard time switching from the
| play pin.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| > I mean if you are OK feeling like a child biking around on a
| cycle with training wheels while an overbearing parent keeps
| nagging you, it might be for you.
|
| That's exactly why I encouraged my parents to get iPhones.
| joz1-k wrote:
| > _Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on
| macOS._
|
| This is certainly happening. However, as long as you can still
| install your preferred browser with its own rendering engine or
| a different PDF reader, the situation isn't so bad.
| bluedino wrote:
| > Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS.
| That definitely makes it a less desirable desktop OS.
|
| I mean this has been the conversation since the early days of
| Mac OS. I didn't get back to Mac until Snow Leopard but I
| remember the uproar over removing Java in 10.7
| nicce wrote:
| > Today when you generate a PDF from you own content (from
| Apple Notes app) you are asked about opening links you click
| on.
|
| Or they don't have any usability studies. A hard regression in
| efficiency in many places.
|
| E.g. Safari in iOS 26 forces you to do 50% more button presses.
| E.g. if you want to close a tab, you need to press one button
| more these days. Also one button press more to see the current
| tabs. These are likely the most used scenarios when you use the
| browser and they add one button press more?
| resfirestar wrote:
| I don't think I've ever appreciated a video player putting
| gradients above and below the controls or darkening the entire
| video when the controls are active. It's extremely annoying when
| you're trying to scrub through a video and read a particular bit
| of text. Why do UI designers from Apple to YouTube to Amazon
| think this is necessary?
| sippeangelo wrote:
| Or putting a huge play button covering it when paused. Or
| taking painfully long to fade-out the UI after pressing play...
| The list goes on.
| dangus wrote:
| Not so related, putting the full screen button in the top left is
| completely annoying. No other video player puts it there.
| NoSalt wrote:
| This is one of the main reasons why I left the Macintosh
| ecosystem several years ago. Apple is, has been, transitioning
| from a computer company to a computing appliance company for many
| years now, and I just couldn't take it any longer. I have happily
| been a full time Linux user since then.
| cesarvarela wrote:
| No, everything is becoming visionOS.
| game_the0ry wrote:
| The fact that they synced up the version numbers (macOS 26,
| iPadOS 26, iOS 26) is a signal that they intend to unify all
| OSes.
|
| My experience with iOS 26 + liquid glass (ew) on my phone has
| been terrible. Feels like a step backward. I am dreading
| upgrading my macbook bc I love it the way it is. Regrettable.
| dsego wrote:
| Oh, it's even worse on MacOS, everything got rounder and
| bigger. There is no other explanation than touch enabled macs
| and eventual OS unification.
| kemayo wrote:
| The criticism here is a bit overblown. What happened is: on
| recent iOS versions, when you tap a video in Safari to show the
| controls it slightly dims the video until the controls hide. In
| the latest macOS release, macOS Safari has adopted this behavior.
|
| The argument apparently being that any change at all, if it was
| first made on iOS, must inherently be a sign that the two
| platforms are merging. Now, I don't really have an opinion about
| this behavior (I imagine it makes it easier for the controls to
| always be legible, regardless of what the video content looks
| like?), but I'd assume that any logic that holds for it being a
| good idea when applied on iOS would apply just as well on macOS.
| It doesn't have to be a sign that they're merging, just that
| similar reasons to make a change can exist in both places.
|
| As such it seems like a particularly strange adjustment to hang a
| "macOS is turning into iOS" rant on. Particularly when there's
| things like "iPadOS just got macOS-style windowing and menu
| bars!" sitting right there.
| lapcat wrote:
| > The argument apparently being that any change at all, if it
| was first made on iOS, must inherently be a sign that the two
| platforms are merging
|
| You know, it's frustrating when people just flippantly assume
| that someone who has been a professional Mac developer for 19
| years could be so stupid. I'm not stupid.
|
| Did you notice when I said in the blog post, "as we've seen
| repeatedly [emphasis added] since then" and "Apple is
| continuing [emphasis added] to merge iOS and macOS"? Also when
| I said, referring to the embedded video, "This rhetorical
| question was presumably in response to widespread criticism."
| So the impression that Apple was merging iOS and macOS was
| already out there years ago.
|
| My criticism should be understood in the context, which is that
| Apple has been merging iOS and macOS for years, in many
| different ways, and this is just the latest example. I couldn't
| even enumerate all of the examples, because there have been so
| many. So no, the argument does not hang on this one example.
| It's an argument I've been making since at least Mac OS X Lion,
| 14 years ago.
|
| I don't expect you to know my full history. However, I expect
| comments to follow the HN guidelines, which say "Please respond
| to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says,
| not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."
|
| > I'd assume that any logic that holds for it being a good idea
| when applied on iOS would apply just as well on macOS.
|
| Why would you assume this? The two platforms are very different
| in physical characteristics.
|
| This is a principal objection to merging the platforms,
| especially merging the user interfaces. What makes sense for a
| tiny touch screen doesn't necessarily make sense for a much
| larger screen with keyboard and mouse input.
| kemayo wrote:
| If you want to talk about steelmanning arguments, have you
| considered that I might also be unconvinced by prior
| examples? And thus dismissed those off-hand references as
| largely irrelevant to the main content of your post?
|
| Jeff, they're a pair of closely-related operating systems
| that share a lot of common subsystems, and _always have
| been_. I don 't want to say they'll never unify them more
| closely, but that's not something they seem to me to be
| doing. If you've been saying they've been merging them for 14
| years, then they're really not making much progress on that.
|
| > Why would you assume this? The two platforms are very
| different in physical characteristics.
|
| Are you saying that the make-controls-more-visible argument
| _doesn 't_ apply? Because although I just threw that one out
| there without much thought, it really does seem reasonable on
| any device to me.
| lapcat wrote:
| > have you considered that I might also be unconvinced by
| prior examples
|
| Yes. But then you're admitting that there are prior
| examples, not just this latest example.
|
| > And thus dismissed those off-hand references as largely
| irrelevant to the main content of your post?
|
| My opinions in the post, whether you agree with them or
| not, were indeed largely irrelevant to main content, which
| was highlighting the change of behavior.
|
| You could have chosen to ignore those opinions, if you
| believe they were largely irrelevant. You chose not only to
| address my opinions but to turn them into a straw man.
| (Note that the HN guidelines also say, "Please don't pick
| the most provocative thing in an article or post to
| complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to
| respond to instead.") You don't have to agree with my
| opinions, but again, my opinions are part of a larger
| context, which you now acknoweldge. My opinions did not
| arise out of the blue with the video controls change.
| kemayo wrote:
| > Yes. But then you're admitting that there are prior
| examples, not just this latest example.
|
| ...I'm admitting that people making this argument have
| suggested there were things that supported it before.
| Acknowledging that people have made prior claims I
| disagree with doesn't seem relevant?
|
| > You could have chosen to ignore those opinions, if you
| believe they were largely irrelevant.
|
| It was your opening paragraph that talked about merging
| the OSes. There's a reason I responded to it by assuming
| you thought the rest of your post supported your opening
| statement.
|
| If you'd like, we really could just talk about whether
| the change to the video player behavior is a reasonable
| thing to apply to both platforms. I think it probably is,
| on balance, for the aforementioned control-visibility
| reasons. You?
|
| (Though, sadly, I have to go pick up a child from school,
| so the rapid back-and-forth will have to cease for a
| bit.)
| lapcat wrote:
| > I'm admitting that people making this argument have
| suggested there were things that supported it before.
| That doesn't mean I agree with them, which you seem to be
| implying there?
|
| No, I'm not implying that. Whichever side of the
| controversy you stand on, apparently the opposite side
| from me, you have to admit, and seemingly are admitting,
| that many people have been arguing for years that iOS and
| macOS are merging.
|
| My point is that if you're trying to interpret my views,
| you can't dismiss the prior examples as irrelevant. You
| may think my views are false, but my views are
| nonetheless based on the prior examples. You initially
| invented a straw man view out of thin air that I do not
| believe myself: "The argument apparently being that..."
|
| > It was your opening paragraph that talked about merging
| the OSes. There's a reason I responded to it by assuming
| you thought the rest of your post supported your opening
| statement.
|
| I think you misunderstood the purpose of the post, which
| was simply to highlight the latest abomination, not to
| make a larger argument.
|
| A 391 word blog post is almost never going to be a
| comprehensive argument for anything. So if you're
| thinking "That's your argument???" well no, of course
| it's not. I don't have the time or desire to make every
| little blog post into a book-length treatise just so that
| random internet commenters don't assume I'm an idiot.
| (Some probably would anyway, so it would be wasted
| effort.)
|
| > If you'd like, we really could just talk about whether
| the change to the video player behavior is a reasonable
| thing to apply to both platforms. I think it probably is,
| on balance, for the aforementioned control-visibility
| reasons. You?
|
| I've never seen an case where the visibility/legibility
| of the controls were a problem. Do you have any examples?
|
| The irony is that Tahoe has made many things on macOS
| _less_ legibile, which of course is a matter of great
| public controversy now.
| kemayo wrote:
| I'm willing to rephrase it down to "the argument being
| that a change made on iOS later coming to macOS supports
| the idea that the platforms are merging", though that
| feels like a distinction without a difference to me.
|
| > A 391 word blog post is almost never going to be a
| comprehensive argument for anything. So if you're
| thinking "That's your argument???" well no, of course
| it's not.
|
| Putting aside _my_ disagreement with the larger
| argument.... If you want people who see your posts from
| the HN frontpage to go do independent research about the
| history of your ideas on the topic before responding, you
| 're going to be left a frustrated and unhappy person.
| Really, you're lucky when people are replying to the
| actual content of your post rather than just the title
| and other people's comments. :-D
|
| > I've never seen an case where the visibility/legibility
| of the controls were a problem. Do you have any examples?
|
| Just looking at your comparison screenshots in your post,
| my focus is drawn to the control-icons much better in the
| Tahoe one. In the Sequoia screenshot the button-outlines
| draw more of my focus because of how they stand out, and
| that actually makes me take longer to parse what their
| _contents_ are. The Tahoe version thus feels easier to
| quickly use to me.
|
| This might be a personal thing to do with how our
| respective brains process visual information, but I think
| the Tahoe one is a genuine usability improvement.
| lapcat wrote:
| > I'm willing to rephrase it down to...
|
| That seems like a really strange way of putting it. What
| does your willingness have to do with it? I, the article
| author, am right here. Thus, you can just ask me what I
| meant. To insist on putting words in my mouth that I
| don't believe would be absurd, especially when it's
| directly to my face.
|
| > the argument being that a change made on iOS later
| coming to macOS supports the idea that the platforms are
| merging
|
| This incorrectly assumes that an argument was being made.
| I already said: "I think you misunderstood the purpose of
| the post, which was simply to highlight the latest
| abomination, not to make a larger argument."
|
| In fact, the second paragraph of the blog post,
| immediately after the embedded video, already takes for
| granted that Apple is merging iOS and macOS: "this denial
| [No.] did not age well."
|
| > If you want people who see your posts from the HN
| frontpage...
|
| Well, I didn't submit my post to HN. I'm not sure I
| wanted it to be on the front page.
|
| > to go do independent research about the history of your
| ideas on the topic before responding
|
| I already addressed this earlier in the thread: "I don't
| expect you to know my full history. However, I expect
| comments to follow the HN guidelines".
|
| > Really, you're lucky when people are replying to the
| actual content of your post rather than just the title
| and other people's comments.
|
| I replied to you. What other people write in their
| comments is a separate matter. You're responsible for the
| content of your own comments about my article.
|
| > Just looking at your comparison screenshots in your
| post, my focus is drawn to the control-icons much better
| in the Tahoe one.
|
| It's important to note, however, that the controls
| themselves are brighter on Tahoe, independent of the
| background. Try cutting and pasting the controls from the
| Tahoe screenshot onto the Sequoia screenshot. You don't
| have to darken the video in order to achieve brighter
| controls.
|
| The other issue, I would say the main issue, is that the
| controls remain on top of the video for several seconds
| after you're done manipulating them. So you keep having a
| darkened video for several seconds every time you adjust
| something, which is a degraded viewing experience. This
| happens even with play/pause.
| aakkaakk wrote:
| As long as apple doesn't do a "Sinofsky", and implement a touch
| optimised gui... on servers, I think we're good.
| jajuuka wrote:
| A change in webkit (which both OS's have used forever) somehow
| means they are merging iOS and macOS? I'm not following this
| logic at all.
| chrisbrandow wrote:
| it's not a change in webkit. the webpage just displays the
| current OS video player. i read the page in Sequoia and it
| shows the old version
| mimsee wrote:
| Apple also built a custom video element for web they use for
| their events. See the Apple Events page[0] and click "Watch the
| event". It also seems to dim the video when mousing over. I kinda
| like the design, but the animations seem a tad bit slow.
|
| [0]: https://www.apple.com/apple-events/
| pier25 wrote:
| I love Apple Silicon and hope Apple tones down all the iOS
| _ification_ of macOS. It 's a mistake.
| alberth wrote:
| Since the thread is slipping into a Liquid Glass topic ...
|
| Question: does anyone have anything good to say about Liquid
| Glass?
| kemayo wrote:
| I like how it looks. It's nice to have a fairly-minor shake-up
| in the aesthetics every now and then, and it makes everything
| feel a bit fresh and new. And I _do_ sincerely find it fairly
| minor -- things got a bit rounder and glossier, and there 's a
| few bits of iOS that have some fairly cute glass-distortion
| effects, and some apps got some not-huge UI redesigns.
|
| Overall, particularly on my phone, it's just giving me an
| occasional pleasant burst of "ooh, shiny". On my laptop, I
| admittedly barely notice anything has changed.
|
| (I don't personally have any legibility issues with it, though
| I'm willing to believe that's down to individual usage
| patterns.)
| kstrauser wrote:
| 1) Aesthetically, I think it's pretty. That's a subjective
| opinion, though.
|
| 2) I _vastly_ prefer it displaying buttons as buttons, instead
| of as just undifferentiated text on a screen. In the past I 've
| sometimes been frustrated that an app didn't have a feature I
| wanted, only to learn that it actually had that feature, hidden
| behind what I'd assumed was just a text label but was actually
| a button. This is an enormous freaking improvement.
|
| 3) I very much prefer the new UI patterns in other places. For
| example, when highlighting text on iOS, the old UI gives a
| horizontally scrolling list of options with arrow keys to
| rotate through them. The new UI replaces that with a ">" More
| button that pops up a vertical list of all available actions.
| Again, this is an enormous freaking improvement.
|
| I like the appearance of Liquid Glass, but that could go either
| way. I think the actual UI implementation behind the graphics
| is _so_ much better than before.
| ZhiqiangWang wrote:
| The biggest difference between macOS and iOS is file system
| access. One day macOS terminal will disappear, just a matter of
| time.
| chrisbrandow wrote:
| the liquid glass video controls on iOS absolutely does obscure
| more of the content than the pre-26 players did and it's not even
| close. it's just UI chrome for its own sake
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