[HN Gopher] KosmicKrisp a Vulkan on Metal Mesa 3D Graphics Driver
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       KosmicKrisp a Vulkan on Metal Mesa 3D Graphics Driver
        
       Author : Degenerative
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2025-08-12 06:37 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.lunarg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.lunarg.com)
        
       | lawlessone wrote:
       | Are metal GPU's good? I've admit for purely ideological reasons
       | i've never really looked into how powerful they are
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | For raster, they're pretty good and fabbed on dense nodes. For
         | compute, nothing special.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Yes, it is the best next generation API, and the only one that
         | fully supports C++ (C++14 with extensions) on the GPU.
         | 
         | It is also the only native 3D API designed for managed
         | languages, in Objective-C with Swift bindings.
         | 
         | DirectX is the land of COM, C++, write your own bindings, HLSL
         | isn't quite C++, although is getting there.
         | 
         | Vulkan is the second coming of extension spaghetti, GLSL is
         | stagnant to the point everyone was using HLSL instead, now
         | there is Slang, still outside C and C++, write your own
         | bindings.
         | 
         | LibGNM and LibGMX are basically C and C++ land, and PSGL is an
         | evolution from HLSL.
         | 
         | NVN is a mix of OpenGL and Vulkan, and equally C and C++ land.
         | 
         | Then there are all the MetalKits, that no OS vendor has similar
         | offerings.
        
       | wmf wrote:
       | The announcement is pretty confusing since Mesa is used on Linux
       | but Metal only exists on macOS/iOS. I guess this is only for
       | Linux VMs running on macOS such as the Android emulator. Maybe it
       | could also be used to run desktop Linux in a VM.
        
         | lights0123 wrote:
         | Mesa can be used on other operating systems. See
         | https://www.phoronix.com/news/Zink-Windows-Kopper-Progress for
         | an example of using its OpenGL-to-Vulkan translator on Windows.
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | Mesa is also usable on other platforms, including Windows and
         | macOS.
         | 
         | It's even theoretically possible to use the Asahi Linux
         | hardware Mesa drivers on macOS, though actually doing so would
         | involve hacking around undocumented APIs. I actually thought
         | this was demonstrated before (during early testing) but I can't
         | find it.
         | 
         | Someone else managed to get the RADV AMD driver working on
         | Windows[1]. It is not fully merged upstream yet, but I think
         | they would like to get it merged upstream eventually.
         | 
         | Windows 10 on ARM (maybe Windows 11?) also use Mesa with
         | Microsoft and Collabora's d3d12 backend to run OpenGL and
         | OpenCL applications on top of d3d12, for hardware that does not
         | have proper OpenGL and OpenCL drivers[2].
         | 
         | And of course, it ought to be possible to use llvmpipe/lavapipe
         | with off-screen rendering pretty much anywhere you can get Mesa
         | to build, although in practice I believe SwiftShader usually
         | nets you a lot better performance if it's applicable.
         | 
         | So Mesa is actually _not_ used only on Linux, it can be used
         | pretty much anywhere, actually ships with Windows, and of
         | course many other free software operating systems also ship
         | Mesa.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/RADV-Windows-XDC-2024
         | 
         | [2]: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/announcing-the-
         | opencl...
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Mesa has taken a middleware role for quite some time now.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | What macOS apps use Mesa?
        
       | coffeeaddict1 wrote:
       | This is nice, but what I really would like is for someone to make
       | the Zink + MoltenVK/KosmicKrisp combo so that we can have OpenGL
       | 4.1+ support on macOS. It's somewhat disappointing that the only
       | way to utilise the latest OpenGL on Macs is to use Asahi Linux.
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | People jumping through hoops with smart tricks, because Apple are
       | too stuck up to support Vulkan natively.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Just wait when they hear about game consoles.
         | 
         | Apparently game devs have been doing just fine with middleware
         | solution since the days of Atari.
        
           | shmerl wrote:
           | Apple doesn't care about gamers, so gamers shouldn't care
           | about Apple.
        
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