[HN Gopher] Steam payment headaches grow as PayPal is no longer ...
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       Steam payment headaches grow as PayPal is no longer usable for much
       of the world
        
       Author : mrkramer
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2025-08-13 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcgamer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcgamer.com)
        
       | JumpCrisscross wrote:
       | "In early July 2025, PayPal notified Valve that their acquiring
       | bank for payment transactions in certain currencies was
       | immediately terminating the processing of any transactions
       | related to Steam. This affects Steam purchases using PayPal in
       | currencies other than EUR, CAD, GBP, JPY, AUD and USD."
        
         | lesuorac wrote:
         | So, this means a bank that handles EUR, CAD, GBP, JPY, AUD and
         | USD isn't afraid of Visa/MasterCard and is willing to process
         | the transactions while the other currencies don't have a
         | willing bank?
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | It means PayPal's bank(s) don't want to take foreign currency
           | risks in non-major currencies.
        
       | lumost wrote:
       | Watching this from afar, I'm deeply confused about the recent
       | trend of payment processors determining what types of vice can be
       | accessed using their payment systems. I understand legal
       | compliance, and cases where legal compliance is ambiguous
       | (marijuana transactions in the US). However why are payment
       | processors collectively policing what is acceptable in video
       | games?
        
         | mrguyorama wrote:
         | Payment processors are being sued by essentially religious
         | fundamentalists. They are anti-porn, have very very good
         | lawyers, and keep winning vague cases.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_on_Sexual_Expl...
        
         | jjk166 wrote:
         | Well first certain activities are very difficult to directly
         | police so rather than getting better at dealing with the actual
         | criminal behavior, you instead go after the money which is
         | merely a proxy for the behavior.
         | 
         | Unfortunately tracking monetary transactions and finding the
         | people doing heinous behavior you're supposed to be policing is
         | still pretty hard, so you you hand off that task to someone
         | else. The best way to go after the money is to put tight
         | restrictions on money processors to collect data and high
         | penalties for looking the other way, so they'll do your job for
         | you.
         | 
         | Unfortunately determining which transactions are actually
         | illicit is also pretty hard, so the payment processors go
         | employ intermediate firms which give various buisnesses scores
         | based on how well they comply with the payment processor's
         | guidelines, which is a proxy for transaction suspicion.
         | 
         | Unfortunately scoring businesses on how well they comply with
         | guidelines is also hard, so the intermediates make the
         | businesses adopt operating guidelines and just compare how well
         | those match up to the payment processor's, which is a proxy for
         | how well the company complies. Typically these guidelines have
         | certain moderation requirements.
         | 
         | Unfortunately moderating content is hard, so businesses that
         | handle transactions for 3rd party content put the onus on those
         | using their platform to self moderate, and put in place overly
         | conservative moderation designed to satisfy the intermediates.
         | 
         | Repeat this a few times for a few different classes of behavior
         | and suddenly the financial infrastructure is one of the most
         | powerful tools to manipulate the population at scale in the
         | world, much to the satisfaction of those who came up with the
         | system. It's amazing how much extra you can get done by not
         | doing your job.
        
         | OgsyedIE wrote:
         | The payment processors are complying in advance with laws that
         | don't exist yet but are expected to be made. The Visa Global
         | Government Affairs Department and the Mastercard Government
         | Affairs & Policy Team hire historians and political scientists
         | with years of policy industry experience to assess the
         | political risks of failing to align with the ruling party of
         | the country they are headquarted in.
         | 
         | For example, one of the major banks in Weimar Germany was
         | Mendelssohn & Co., which did not align with the ideology of the
         | post-1933 government. In 1938 the bank was liquidated and the
         | assets forcibly absorbed into Deutsche Bank. The executives of
         | Mendelssohn & Co. who were not already members of the Nazi
         | party were all arrested and later murdered in the Holocaust,
         | with the exception of Rudolf Loeb who fled to Argentina and
         | died in 1966 and Paul Kempner who fled to the United States and
         | died in 1956.
        
           | cozyman wrote:
           | have you considered that maybe they don't want to do business
           | with companies that host child pornography and rape? You
           | cannot deny that porn sites host that type of content because
           | they were caught red-handed. So do you think it's not a big
           | deal or that peoples access to self gratification is more
           | important than the abuse of women and young girls?
        
             | OgsyedIE wrote:
             | Porn sites that host such content do not deliberately
             | choose to host it, they are forced to host it by criminal
             | users, because the website allows user uploads without
             | content scanning, which allows users to upload anything and
             | have it only get moderated after it is already live.
             | 
             | The existence of companies that fail to do an excellent job
             | of preventing the upload of child pornography and rape is a
             | trade off.
             | 
             | In exchange for giving section 230 to everybody, including
             | porn hosts that fail to perfectly vet their content, the
             | existence of youtube, hacker news and [insert your
             | favourite social media] is enabled. Having the wrong things
             | only get moderated after they are put on the internet,
             | instead of before, is the price we pay to allow good things
             | to get put on the internet.
             | 
             | After all, you certainly wouldn't like to be in a situation
             | where you reply to me and have to wait three hours for a
             | janitor to check that your reply is acceptable before your
             | reply could go live, would you?
             | 
             | The current system avoids that hypothetical negative.
        
             | dpoloncsak wrote:
             | Bro that exact content gets uploaded to YouTube everyday
             | too, but nobody's cutting Google's payments off
        
       | altairprime wrote:
       | Is it Fiserv? I notice Mastercard invested into PayPal and Fiserv
       | just a couple months ago, and PayPal was already in business with
       | Fiserv via Fastlane.
        
       | upseo wrote:
       | Ironically, porn website keep accepting Visa/Mastercard like
       | nothing happened
        
         | jeffwask wrote:
         | and all the sports betting sites are doing just fine.
        
       | linotype wrote:
       | I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but can Steam just
       | accept Bitcoin?
        
         | mrguyorama wrote:
         | Steam DID accept bitcoins for like a year. They shut it down
         | because of high fees, volatility, and because _nobody actually
         | buys things with bitcoins_
        
           | linotype wrote:
           | Sounds like there may be no other option for some soon.
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | I would buy a Steam gift card from a
             | Walgreens/Target/whatever before I would deal with the
             | hassle of Bitcoin.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | Of course there will. Monero, Ethereum, USDC... All of
             | which do a better job as currencies than Bitcoin btw.
        
             | zdp7 wrote:
             | Bitcoin cannot handle Steam's transactions per second. When
             | I got my Steam Deck, it took me 15 minutes to complete my
             | purchase. Off the top of my head, I think I was about
             | 130,000 in the queue.
        
         | elpocko wrote:
         | They did for a while.
         | 
         | https://www.pcgamer.com/50-of-transactions-were-fraudulent-w...
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | This screams so hard to buy a bank to solve this problems out for
       | the gaming industry. Valve has the capital to do this but
       | probably not the CEO...
        
         | burnt-resistor wrote:
         | I know someone who bought a defunct bank to solve a family
         | wealth repatriation catch-22 issue.
         | 
         | This might be a sensible approach.
         | 
         | Or, if they had some sense, they'd get into the credit business
         | with their own "store card" that doesn't use V/MC. With this,
         | they'd have the leverage to tell credit card processors to "get
         | bent" should V/MC try telling them how to run their business
         | and what content is acceptable.
        
       | Habgdnv wrote:
       | First they came for the porn, and I did not speak out - because,
       | officially I do not watch porn.
       | 
       | Then they came for cryptocurrency, and I did not speak out -
       | because I am not a crypto bro.
       | 
       | Then they came for the games, and I am a gamer... but there was
       | no one left to speak for me, because payment processors had
       | already "ethically" deplatformed everyone else.
        
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       (page generated 2025-08-13 23:02 UTC)