[HN Gopher] Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing i...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in
       printers/desktop computers
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 177 points
       Date   : 2025-08-11 22:39 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fortune.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fortune.com)
        
       | pstuart wrote:
       | Seems like an opportunity for a coworking-lite space -- rent a
       | seat/desk spot for 1 hour blocks.
        
         | worthless-trash wrote:
         | With starbucks delivery, starbucks printing, etc.
        
         | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
         | I somehow doubt that people are lugging a desktop and printer
         | around the city, only to set it up and work for 1 hour in
         | Starbucks.
        
           | pstuart wrote:
           | By the hour, implying multiple are possible.
        
         | recursivecaveat wrote:
         | They actually have exactly that for gaming: a "pc bang" like a
         | internet cafe. I wonder if it has been tried in earnest for co-
         | working. You would think it is an easier business so long as
         | the demand is there.
        
           | iojcde wrote:
           | There's also study cafes, which are aimed more primarily at
           | students but often have working spaces for laptop use. These
           | are quiet spaces to focus compared to something like
           | Starbucks or PC bangs though.
        
         | bryanhogan wrote:
         | There's already a large offering of such spaces in Korea. You
         | have cafes where you can bring your laptop and work in peace,
         | there's pc cafes / pc bangs which are more for gaming but
         | provide a desktop, there are places where you can rent co-
         | working spaces or spaces for co-working that you can use with a
         | membership.
        
         | Oreb wrote:
         | Isn't that how most coworking spaces work already? I've worked
         | from a lot of them, and it always worked like that: I check in
         | when I arrive in the morning, and when I check out at the end
         | of the day, I pay for the number of hours I have spent there
         | (often capped to a maximum of 5 hours or so, even if I stay
         | longer).
        
           | pstuart wrote:
           | My original comment was an offhand observation, but the
           | difference under assumption is that co-working spaces require
           | a contract/commitment, whereas the scenario I had in mind was
           | no commitment other than paying for each time of use.
           | 
           | Maybe that's already a thing; my sense of self is not
           | dependent upon being "right" in this matter.
        
         | arkh wrote:
         | What a novel concept!
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_bang
        
           | philipallstar wrote:
           | I first assumed this was a YouTube video where someone eats a
           | PC in front of their livestream audience.
        
         | EE84M3i wrote:
         | Co-working spaces of all types are ubiquitous in Tokyo FWIW.
         | Near my midsize station I had about 10 different providers in a
         | 10 minute walking radius, some with multiple locations even!
         | 
         | Most have a selection of plans to choose from: hourly, daily,
         | monthly, etc
         | 
         | I chose a bit more upscale one without a fixed seat. I pay
         | Y=1100 (7.5 USD) I think for each day I use it, with a monthly
         | minimum spend of Y=2200. It comes with free mediocre
         | coffee/tea. It is consistently clean and library quiet as
         | people follow the posted rules including minding the volume of
         | their typing and headphones.
         | 
         | I would be surprised if the situation in Seoul was
         | significantly different.
        
       | _rm wrote:
       | I feel genuinely sad for anyone who's in such a desperate spot
       | that they're doing this
        
         | pfannkuchen wrote:
         | What makes you think they're desperate? IME people from Asian
         | cultures sometimes have ways of thinking that strike at least
         | me personally as basically alien. And then my brain
         | interpolates their motives wrong based on biases that are
         | shaped by western versions of politeness etc.
        
       | shinycode wrote:
       | People bring printers to Starbucks... really ? I'm kind of
       | surprised it feels like an abuse to me o_O it would never cross
       | my mind
        
         | arkh wrote:
         | South Korea is cyber cafe country. If you open a cafe there,
         | people expect some specific services.
         | 
         | I guess the fact people come with PCs and printer is a way to
         | demonstrate how they don't want this part of US culture and
         | would like to keep theirs. So either adapt and start offering
         | PC bang in South Korea or go home.
        
           | somedude895 wrote:
           | Or you know, you could just not go there if you don't like
           | the place rather than be a prick to people who work there and
           | customers who like going there.
        
             | thrown-0825 wrote:
             | Hard to do when starbucks is a real estate holding company
             | that sells coffee. They have sucked all the air out of the
             | cafe space and driven out their competitors.
        
               | yorwba wrote:
               | Driven out their competitors where? In Seoul, Twosome
               | Place and Hollys are ubiquitous, there's a few more
               | chains whose names I don't remember off the top of my
               | head and plenty of single-location cafes remain as well.
        
               | true_religion wrote:
               | Is this to the point that no internet cafes exist?
        
               | tasuki wrote:
               | > They have sucked all the air out of the cafe space and
               | driven out their competitors.
               | 
               | How?
        
               | delfinom wrote:
               | By addicting consumers to coffee flavored sugar I
               | suppose?
        
               | ch4s3 wrote:
               | I couldn't tell you where the nearest Starbucks is in
               | Philly but I can name at least 9 other cafes within a
               | short walk.
        
             | shinycode wrote:
             | I agree, following the logic means any customer from any
             | shop can start doing anything regardless of policies and
             | shops just need to adapt just because of my expectations ?
        
           | The-Bus wrote:
           | Starbucks Coffee Korea Co. is a Korean company, owned by a
           | Singaporean wealth fund and a Korean company. US Starbucks
           | provides licensing and supplies, nothing more.
           | 
           | So this is a decision by a Korean company, not an American
           | one.
           | 
           | https://stories.starbucks.com/asia/stories/2021/starbucks-
           | tr...
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | There needs to be a resurrection of the Canon NoteJet laptops.
        
           | falcor84 wrote:
           | Ooh, yes I want one.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_NoteJet
        
             | shinycode wrote:
             | Fire !!!
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Yes, and not only in Korea.
         | 
         | https://laist.com/news/starbucks-swag
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | The solution is to bring back cybercafes, or cafes which were set
       | up up to go online. Such culture existed in the 90s but was then
       | ended by the widespread online accessibility by home ADSL and
       | later mobile internet.
       | 
       | https://www.vice.com/en/article/worlds-first-ever-cyber-cafe...
        
         | bryanhogan wrote:
         | South Korea has many pc cafes, so called pc bangs / pcbang, and
         | there are also many study cafes where you can work for long
         | periods.
        
         | ljf wrote:
         | The 'problem' with those for remote workers is that you pay per
         | minute/hour in a cybercafe - in a normal coffee shop you can
         | just nurse one coffee for hours and pay a single low cost (and
         | get a coffee).
         | 
         | I can't remember the name of it now but back in 2010s there was
         | an 'OK' managed drop-in office space you could rent for PS10 a
         | day in central London - which came with free coffee and
         | printing - I haven't looked at the prices lately.
        
           | iainmerrick wrote:
           | Wow, I'd be curious about the details if you can remember.
           | 
           | I was working from cafes in London at that time, and I would
           | have loved to find a place like that. I had to either use
           | actual cafes (free besides getting a coffee and maybe a
           | sandwich, limited privacy and security) or pay for a
           | dedicated space, generally with too much tedious bureaucracy.
           | Maybe I misremember, but to get prices as low as PS10/day I
           | think you had to commit to a large number of days per month.
           | I don't recall anyone offering low prices a la carte.
        
             | ljf wrote:
             | Just looked up my email - and in 2012 I paid PS10 4 hours
             | in the Regus shared working space in central London - I
             | think a 7 hour day might of been PS12 but I don't have a
             | full booking. From memory it was behind Bond Street - I was
             | working for a small company in East London, and was taking
             | the afternoon off to interview for another role. I wanted
             | to be able to work right up until the interview and have
             | somewhere to get changed into my suit, so didn't want to
             | work from a cafe. I'd seen the offer in various 'business'
             | magazines at the time, it wasn't brilliant, and I wouldn't
             | have been happy their full time, but it was perfect for the
             | day I needed it for.
             | 
             | Prior to that time we had been paying PS330 a month for a
             | desk on Dean Street Soho - but that was a monthly rolling
             | contract as you say, and we'd just moved to some free space
             | in Farringdon, where a friend was letting us use a desk (I
             | think in part to make their office look busier).
             | 
             | There was a drop in place in East London that offered
             | similar day prices back in 2010, as I went to look around
             | it - but it was too noisy for me - was walking distance to
             | the Silicon Roundabout - but I can't remember what it was
             | called.
        
               | iainmerrick wrote:
               | I mostly used the British Library, which was lovely and
               | just the right level of quiet. But it gradually got more
               | popular -- when I popped in recently, the (expanded)
               | working areas were very crowded.
        
               | ljf wrote:
               | Nice - I tried libraries and also used friends club
               | memberships - but I needed to do a lot of video calls, so
               | a place I could talk freely was needed.
               | 
               | A friend of mine seemed to manage to join nice clubs
               | early on good terms (and low costs), and ran a mobile
               | advertising business for a good few years without ever
               | having a proper office space - just working from home
               | then the clubs as needed for meetings etc. But his line
               | of work seemed rather boozy.
        
               | NuclearPM wrote:
               | Boozy?
        
               | ljf wrote:
               | Meetings with clients then ended in 'booze' (British
               | slang for alcohol/beer/spirts/wine).
        
         | ykonstant wrote:
         | Cybercafes are already a big thing in SK, but why is the above
         | comment downvoted? I, for one, miss net cafes very much. They
         | used to be big in Greece, and I made many many dear friendships
         | in small, cozy net cafes.
         | 
         | I can recount hilarious and even heartwarming stories; turns
         | out that having a cafe (i.e. leisure space) with computers used
         | by people in close proximity makes for dynamics and
         | interactions that you cannot recreate with remote connections.
        
       | bryanhogan wrote:
       | Having lived in Korea, I have always enjoyed the cafe culture.
       | Starbucks there is known for accepting you to work there.
       | Although I haven't seen anyone bring a printer yet, some do bring
       | extra stuff such as a stand for their laptop that take up a lot
       | of space.
       | 
       | The only thing this article mentions is that Starbucks prohibits
       | people of bringing stuff that would take up more than a single
       | seat, which seems reasonable?
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I used to travel with a Canon PIXMA printer. Quite portable.
         | Could carry a laptop and printer in a small backpack. The paper
         | was heavy, though.
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | What were you printing that required a print to be carried
           | with you?
           | 
           | Personally printing should be banned. The amount of paper
           | waste we create disgraceful.
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | I worked for a Japanese company. Paper is a big deal,
             | there.
             | 
             | Also, I have long subscribed to Tufte's "supergraphic"
             | methodology, when giving presentations.
        
               | seb1204 wrote:
               | In which way? Can you elaborate? What type of document
               | would you need to print on the go? What for or for whom?
        
               | doublerabbit wrote:
               | > I worked for a Japanese company. Paper is a big deal,
               | there.
               | 
               | About time they evolved to the next level then.
               | 
               | My point still sticks. Paper waste is a large impact to
               | climate change. We shouldn't be using paper anymore, why
               | do we proceed to waste such as by printing out email's?
        
       | cryptoz wrote:
       | Reminds me of the Improv Everywhere sketch where they did this
       | exact thing.
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
        
         | paranoidrobot wrote:
         | I thought about Improv Everywhere recently - they had some
         | great things in the early 2000s.
         | 
         | Re watching this, at about 1:16 one of the agents looks
         | familiar. "Huh, she looks kinda like Aubrey Plaza". Then the
         | credits come on: It was actually Aubrey Plaza.
        
           | tennisflyi wrote:
           | I thought that too!
        
         | tennisflyi wrote:
         | 17 years ago - wow!
        
       | jiehong wrote:
       | Or maybe Starbucks should install a common printer with a fee?
       | 
       | The large items policy still makes sense, though
        
         | sschueller wrote:
         | That will ruin them at $1,500 to $2,000 per litre of ink...
        
           | unglaublich wrote:
           | They could provide Starbucks branded ink of which 95% of the
           | cost is licensing fees which they pay out tax-free to
           | themselves.
        
             | codeulike wrote:
             | They could scribble each customers name on the printouts
             | with a sharpie
             | 
             | "Got a flat black and white parking ticket appeal form for
             | Kim"
        
               | ykonstant wrote:
               | - Name?
               | 
               | - Sauron.
               | 
               | - Sharon it is.
        
           | krogenx wrote:
           | Maybe they could do some R&D to see if coffee could be used
           | as ink.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | I just put coffee in my printer to see...
             | 
             | It kinda works, but the printouts are very faint.
             | 
             | I was expecting it to clog immediately (the jets are
             | ~10um), but it didn't.
        
               | ctxc wrote:
               | Damn. The kind of friends I need in my life.
        
               | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
               | Sorry to bother you but I have so many questions! Like,
               | did you actually do it or was it just a middle joke I
               | didn't detect? If the former, wasn't you afraid the
               | printer won't be usable after that experiment? Didn't
               | that worry you? Do you often experiment in this way?
               | (Just stopping there to give otherwise the list gets too
               | long.)
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | I have literally hundreds of HP print heads from a
               | project, many partly blocked or burned out (they burn if
               | you send them the wrong signals, and like 10% of the time
               | I hit 'break' on my debugger it burns a few jets out if
               | they're firing at the time), and had a coffee sitting
               | right next to my desk so thought "why not".
        
               | librasteve wrote:
               | yeah, but can you bubble jet maybe a photo onto a flat
               | white?
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | That is a stretch goal of my project, but right now I
               | wouldn't be confident I have a method to flush out the
               | OEM and probably toxic ink.
        
               | FredPret wrote:
               | This is incredible - you should write a blog about it. I
               | want to see what that printout looks like!
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | When the main project is done, there'll be a blog post
               | and the coffee test will make an appearance!
        
               | FredPret wrote:
               | I'm also super curious what one might get up to with that
               | many print heads, so maybe there's two posts in there!
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | I'm not surprised if you used the Breakfast Blend. Did
               | you try the Caffe Verona or Espresso Roast?
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | It was Lidl's red topped instant - don't even know the
               | name - the jar with the red lid, and I made it pretty
               | strong but without milk/sugar (which I thought would
               | cook/burn onto the inside of the nozzle)
        
               | thepryz wrote:
               | That's my printer recommends Bulletproof Coffee. The
               | coconut oil helps ensure smooth flow without clogging
               | while the MCTs improve coffee adhesion to the paper.
        
         | cm2187 wrote:
         | Is that a business they even want, someone occupying a seat for
         | 8 hours only to consume two coffees?
        
           | PaulRobinson wrote:
           | They'd rather that than an empty seat, especially if that
           | person is turning up 5-6 days/week.
           | 
           | Most coffee shops where I live (London, UK, specifically out
           | in West London) are at best 20% full through most of the day,
           | that's a lot of dead real estate not paying for itself.
           | 
           | When I tried working out of coffee shops a bit some years ago
           | the "etiquette" seemed to be ~1 drink/hour to pay for your
           | seat. I don't like coffee that much, so was consuming more
           | like 0.66/hour (i.e. around 2 drinks every 3 hours), and
           | people were fine with that, as it was effectively a rent
           | payment of PS20/day, or PS100/week, which is a little under
           | what a hotdesk would cost me in the same area but with a lot
           | more flexibility (never pay for idle!), and of course its
           | good margin sales for them.
           | 
           | Of course, they could just say "no laptops". There's a pub
           | chain in the UK that did that (Sam Smith's - no screens, no
           | swearing), but the rule is not widely followed or enforced
           | and where it is the pubs are empty far more than the ones
           | that welcome customers.
        
             | victorbjorklund wrote:
             | Obviously some coffee shops are gonna want that but some
             | coffee shops are making all their money by selling to
             | customers during short periods in the morning, lunch and
             | maybe in the afternoon and if this person is sitting there
             | blocking the chair that could be used by many customers
             | during the time the total of two cups of coffee will be
             | less than what they are losing from not being able to serve
             | those customers. Of course for some coffee shops they are
             | never full and they probably benefit from this and they
             | would love to have those type of customers.
        
             | gambiting wrote:
             | >> but the rule is not widely followed or enforced and
             | where it is the pubs are empty far more than the ones that
             | welcome customers.
             | 
             | I mean, I went to one in SOHO and it was packed and indeed,
             | no one was on their phone and people were being actively
             | told off if they used a phone. That was nice. The fact that
             | I paid PS9 for a pint was much less nice though.
        
             | terribleperson wrote:
             | I believe there was an HN article recently about a business
             | that provides a service to cafes to formalize that rent
             | agreement. Spend a certain amount (e.g. 8 euros every 3
             | hours) or you lose wifi access.
        
           | tr81 wrote:
           | Customers attract customers. Even if some customers are not
           | spending a lot of money, they bring in other customers who
           | more than make up for them. This is the reason why so many
           | coffee shops go out of their way to provide power outlets
           | near every table.
        
           | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
           | They want people, but I think a printer crosses the line.
           | It's a Starbucks not a Kinko's.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | It's even worse, I don't think you can bring your own
             | printer to a Kinko's.
        
           | aianus wrote:
           | When I worked out of free co-working spaces in Asia I would
           | buy lunch and breakfast from them too, both to socialize with
           | other patrons and to not lose my seat.
        
           | ericcumbee wrote:
           | I work from a coffee shop a good bit. They don't care for the
           | most part. Assuming you tip reasonably, be nice to the staff,
           | don't be annoying, don't negatively impact the other
           | customers, be helpful when the occasion calls for it.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | I presume it's highly subjective.
           | 
           | For a busy cafe that's always short on seating and struggles
           | to keep up with fulfilling orders, they want nothing to do
           | with laptop squatters.
           | 
           | Every other case I imagine it's desirable to have at least
           | some regulars presumably employed enough to be working from a
           | cafe using modern tech.
           | 
           | One common problem I've noticed is van lifers and other quasi
           | homeless folks spending ~zero money stinking up the place
           | just for the free power and internet.
           | 
           | Now that battery life and cell-tethered internet is so good,
           | some of my favorite urban cafes have adopted a no-outlets no-
           | wifi approach, while still having tons of seating and
           | allowing folks to be present with their computers all day.
           | They just have to provide their own internet and power, which
           | serves to exclude the true parasites while selecting for
           | folks with $$ to spend because they have state of the art
           | gadgets with their own unlimited data plans.
        
       | sandspar wrote:
       | It's hard to run a global business. Different people have such
       | different ways of doing things. Every day, tens of millions of
       | people run pen tests on Starbuck's rules. And Starbuck's front
       | line of defence? A bunch of shy college student baristas.
        
         | thrown-0825 wrote:
         | Most of those people arent in college, especially outside the
         | US.
        
       | dominicrose wrote:
       | Why would anyone except a gamer buy a desktop computer anyway. I
       | guess some people still have their old computer and a lot of
       | south korenas are gamers, but laptops are just better overall
       | because of the portability. If people bring printerS pural then
       | starbuck could "just" have a free-ish printer
        
         | littlestymaar wrote:
         | Anyone who doesn't need to work while traveling actually.
         | 
         | A desktop is both cheaper (at the same spec), while being much
         | more durable due to being upgradable and reparable.
         | 
         | Sure laptop win in terms of portability, but since we can do so
         | much on our phone, I don't really feel the need to bring a
         | computer with me everywhere.
        
         | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
         | They used to be cheaper. Might still be?
         | 
         | I've had mine about ten years and it's still on the original
         | CPU and mobo and PSU I think. I've probably saved a few hundred
         | bucks from not buying another whole computer. It might not be
         | as fast as a new laptop but it has more RAM and storage than
         | most.
         | 
         | If I want to go into LLM stuff I will buy a newish used GPU for
         | it. If the CPU is a bottleneck then I'll get a new mobo but I
         | won't need a new chassis or PSU maybe ever. And the hard drives
         | just rotate as I buy bigger ones
        
         | okasaki wrote:
         | Laptops are terrible -
         | 
         | - Too small
         | 
         | - too loud
         | 
         | - too hot
         | 
         | - too few ports
         | 
         | - fake performance (good luck with your 105W "5090")
         | 
         | - OS confusion about active screen, keyboard and mouse (how
         | many times have I experienced that only the built-in keyboard
         | works during booting, or the OS showing the login screen on
         | only the built-in screen),
         | 
         | - most of them have to be open or have ports in awkward places,
         | and take up space comparable to a desktop.
        
           | iainmerrick wrote:
           | Everyone has different needs. A lot of us get by very nicely
           | with a good laptop and a big monitor (or two). Very few
           | moving parts to keep track of, and you can be productive both
           | home and away.
        
         | senko wrote:
         | > Why would anyone except a gamer buy a desktop computer
         | anyway?
         | 
         | Because you get a beast of a machine for the price of MacBook
         | Air, and because you prefer looking at a big ultrawide monitor
         | instead of alt-tabbing like crazy on a 13" screen, and you
         | prefer a full keyboard and a proper mouse to the cramped layout
         | they stuff in laptops because there's no room.
         | 
         | Oh, and maybe a proper sound system.
         | 
         | And it can also double as a NAS (more physical space for
         | storage) and home server.
         | 
         | Not everyone needs portability all the time. For when I do, I
         | have a Thinkpad I can get by with, with Tailscale VPN so it has
         | access to the workstation.
         | 
         | (for anyone curios, yes, it's still cheaper than top-of-the-
         | line laptop + nas/home server combo, but my main reason is
         | ergonomics).
        
           | boonzeet wrote:
           | > it can also double as a NAS ... and home server
           | 
           | Devil's advocate, but it can't if it's in Starbucks ;)
           | 
           | There's far cheaper workstations out there than Macbooks,
           | especially if you're running Linux on them.
        
             | senko wrote:
             | I ain't lugging that setup around :)
             | 
             | I have a VPN so all its resources _are_ available in a
             | Starbucks via ssh and /or RDP.
             | 
             | This one was a custom build with maxed ram, heaps of
             | storage, a modest Nvidia card with as much VRAM as possible
             | without breaking the bank, etc.. stuff I personally needed.
             | A cheap workstation (or a much more expensive Mac) won't
             | have that exact combo.
             | 
             | So aside from ergonomics, it's also customizability to my
             | idiosyncratic wants and needs.
        
           | edgineer wrote:
           | External monitor, keyboard, mouse, sound, stuck in closet and
           | used as a NAS... I do all these with laptops just as much as
           | with desktops.
           | 
           | Laptop price disadvantage can even flip when buying used due
           | to cheaper shipping.
           | 
           | Laptops can't hold as many internal devices nor the fastest
           | parts and have worse thermals/sound though.
        
         | ahartmetz wrote:
         | Show me that quiet, 16 core, 5 GHz, 128 GB RAM laptop that's
         | actually pretty cheap, too.
         | 
         | I do need the CPU performance, that computer is used to compile
         | C++ code. The RAM is for local LLMs - not fast enough to be
         | practical most of the time tbh, but I like to experiment
         | anyway.
        
           | xenospn wrote:
           | Keep that beast humming at home and get a cheap MacBook Air
           | to use ssh at the coffee shop.
        
             | ahartmetz wrote:
             | Thinkpad with Linux and it's got 8 cores as well (thanks
             | AMD!) because remote development isn't great for what I'm
             | doing and how fast a connection I can rely on.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | The MacBook Pro with M4 Max will give you 16 cores (12 of
           | which run at 4.5Ghz) and 128GB of RAM, and will likely pretty
           | closely match the speed of the desktop processor for
           | compiling C++ (at least we've done benchmarking of rustc in
           | /r/rust the top-spec Apple chips somehow match top-spec x86
           | chips).
           | 
           | It certainly won't be cheap though!
        
           | ryao wrote:
           | An AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 395 should do that.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | If you don't need the portability, desktops are strictly
         | better.
        
       | jwr wrote:
       | In Tokyo, coffee shops seem to have embraced the work culture.
       | Tables and seating have been adapted to working, and you often
       | get a receipt with the time when you are expected to leave
       | printed on it. Most (if not all) people in a Tully's in Tokyo are
       | there to work.
        
         | kalleboo wrote:
         | Even McDonalds has seats with power outlets, I mostly see
         | groups of students studying rather than people working.
        
         | eswat wrote:
         | Seoul is similar. Many Twosome Places have study desks and some
         | of the chains known for small footprint also have bigger
         | locations for meetings and work (Ediya Coffee Lab).
         | 
         | I never understood why people who are frugal would go to
         | Starbucks in Korea to work, when local chains are beside them,
         | have cheaper drinks and their desk/chair setups are less
         | hostile to working.
        
       | apt-apt-apt-apt wrote:
       | I saw a guy (in america) charge his e-bike battery once at
       | Starbucks. GPT estimates a full recharge to be around 30 cents.
        
         | daemonologist wrote:
         | Hah, probably comparable to running a desktop for an equivalent
         | amount of time - most ebike chargers are 100 - 200 W, and the
         | bikes usually have a battery between 0.5 - 1 kWh (which in my
         | area would be 5 - 10 cents). Less disruptive though, assuming
         | they detached the battery and left the bike outside.
        
         | mk_stjames wrote:
         | >GPT estimates (...)
         | 
         | Dude it's middle school math. Average pedal assist e-bike
         | battery, estimate at 500 watt-hours. Electricity prices at my
         | home are about 20 cents per kilowatt-hour.
         | 
         | (0.5 kwhr) * (20 cents/kwhr) = 10 cents. With an additional
         | 10-15% due to charging system inefficiencies (lost to heat). 11
         | cents.
         | 
         | It can be good exercise to do an 8th grade level word problem
         | every now and then.
        
           | ViktorRay wrote:
           | The actual arithmetic is easy but most people don't know
           | about the batteries in e-bikes. They might not know about the
           | electricity prices at the top of their heads either.
           | 
           | You could google those...but it seems easier to just use GPT
           | if you're going to google that stuff anyway.
        
             | mk_stjames wrote:
             | Well considering the GPT reported '30 cents' a charge, it
             | is either a. considering 3x larger battery than I would
             | consider average e-bike sized (and I got my 500Wh number
             | based on a 10-second google scan), b. price of electricity
             | it is considering is 3x higher (highly doubt it) or c. it
             | is imagining that modern lithium ion charging efficiencies
             | wall-to-battery are way, way worse than they actually are
             | (possible to hallucinate and integrate into its
             | calculation).
             | 
             | Either way, we don't know, and the original commenter
             | doesn't know either, because they didn't google anything
             | about e-bike battery sizes or their local electricity
             | prices and thus didn't take the opportunity to actually
             | learn something.
        
       | rich_sasha wrote:
       | Cafes provide two distinct products, usually bundled into one:
       | seat rental and food/drink.
       | 
       | How about charge separately for each? I get that it would be
       | awkward to try, but why not.
        
         | stby wrote:
         | Newer Coworking places generally seem to have some Starbucks-
         | vibes, but AFAIK they are not doing to well.
         | 
         | Maybe the price of a coffee is exactly what people are willing
         | to pay for a seat, a small table, and wifi for some hours.
        
           | mathiaspoint wrote:
           | I haven't seen a coworking place that isn't insanely
           | overpriced compared to a coffee shop so it's no surprise
           | they're not doing well.
        
             | mhitza wrote:
             | In my experience price isn't the only issue. One of the
             | (smaller) coworking spaces I can have access to locally,
             | closes at 6pm while a coffee shop at around 9-10PM and it's
             | also open on weekends.
             | 
             | But then again, I find working in coffee shops too
             | distracting, so work from home and randomly popping into a
             | coworking space now and then.
        
               | mantra2 wrote:
               | Little overpriced but I've found Loop Earplugs to help
               | working in coffee shops, etc. Muffles out most of the
               | sound but not everything, enough to focus but not fly off
               | your seat if someone taps your shoulder.
        
               | john01dav wrote:
               | What's the purpose of doing this over working at home
               | where this problem doesn't exist?
        
             | victorbjorklund wrote:
             | Yeah, but isn't the question whether the co-working place
             | is overpriced or if the coffee shop is underpriced or maybe
             | both?
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | Imagine if a little critical thinking like this had been
           | allowed to enter the minds of WeWork investors.
        
             | NuclearPM wrote:
             | Companies pay more than coffee prices for offices
        
           | currency wrote:
           | Coworking spaces need to colocate with services. Starbucks,
           | Fedex Kinkos, massage chairs....
        
           | sersi wrote:
           | I tried wework. The seats were unbelievably uncomfortable.
           | For the low-low price of $500 usd to get a hot seat, it's
           | just much worse than coffeeshops.
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | Japanese Manga Cafes / Internet Cafes give you all you can
         | drink coffee and tea for hourly pricing, and usually comes with
         | a PC and a private booth. I'm not sure how much of a thing they
         | still are though, but they were big in the 2000s and early 10s
        
           | mvdwoord wrote:
           | This is what we had all over the world (...) when Internet
           | Cafes were a thing. Perhaps they should come back?
        
             | johnisgood wrote:
             | Most developers could not really do their own thing on a
             | PC/laptop that is not theirs.
             | 
             | Are they supposed to set up their development environment
             | each time?
        
               | mvdwoord wrote:
               | You could still bring your laptop? Swap out the HDMI if
               | you want to use the monitor...
        
               | Yizahi wrote:
               | For work oriented cafe, owners can partner with
               | Teamviewer, license seats from it and then advertise this
               | as a fast remote service. Iirc teamviewer requires
               | payment only for host machine, clients can be free.
               | Though I imagine the market for such setup would be
               | extremely small and unprofitable.
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | Clearly StarBucks should rent out StarBucks branded
               | developer machines in the cloud, which you can access
               | from home or from StarBucks terminals.
        
               | ericcumbee wrote:
               | only for JAVA
        
               | nicce wrote:
               | Seems overly complicated when you could just give a plug
               | for charger and let them use their own laptops.
        
               | pvtmert wrote:
               | devcontainers & github codespaces may help, but i agree
               | with you, each day, i would spend just setting up my
               | stuff, to start from scratch on the next day!
        
             | nicoburns wrote:
             | The "Santander Work Cafes"
             | (https://www.santanderbank.com/workcafe/cafe) are an
             | excellent implementation of this.
        
           | rich_sasha wrote:
           | How interesting - so the other extreme. 0 cost on drinks,
           | 100% time in seat cost.
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | Or have actual public places? The Cafe's are there to serve
         | coffee, it's just courtesy as business model to let you hang
         | around in the premises and when the business model starts to
         | fail in some way they adjust it.
         | 
         | After university, the most I miss is the actual places that are
         | mine to use and are made for hanging around or working and not
         | necessarily consuming anything.
        
           | cmavvv wrote:
           | > The Cafe's are there to serve coffee, it's just courtesy as
           | business model to let you hang around
           | 
           | Traditionally it's the other way around, the drink is a by-
           | product of a public house where people can gather. Could you
           | imagine a bar where people are just supposed to drink and
           | leave?
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | How does this work? Were these public houses literally
             | owned by the public and someone noticed that they may sell
             | something there? AFAIK it's more like people opening their
             | premises to outsiders to hang around and sell them stuff.
        
               | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
               | Yes - to enter most houses you needed to be a member of
               | the club, or know the owner, have an invitation, etc.
               | 
               | Some houses were open to the public ("public houses,"
               | "pubs") where anyone could walk in and grab a drink and a
               | bite, and usually even a bed for the night.
        
             | NuclearPM wrote:
             | > Could you imagine a bar where people are just supposed to
             | drink and leave?
             | 
             | Yes.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | > can you imagine a bar where people are just supposed to
             | drink and leave?
             | 
             | That is what a "bar" was invented to do. In the old public
             | house, patrons would remain seated and the alcohol was
             | brought to them. A heavy drinker would drink until they
             | couldnt walk, but would still occupy a chair. Then the
             | "bar" was invented. Patrons now come to the alcohol and
             | will generally depart before becoming legless. A single
             | bartender can now dish out far more alcohol per hour than
             | any table server. That didnt exist as a concept until a
             | couple hundred years ago.
             | 
             | Proper sushi "bars" follow the same pattern. You eat solo,
             | often with curtains between individual patrons. You eat
             | fast. Then you leave. You dont hang around for a chat.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | > After university, the most I miss is the actual places that
           | are mine to use and are made for hanging around or working
           | and not necessarily consuming anything.
           | 
           | You just pre-paid for the consumption in your tuition fees.
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | Well, then it was a great deal. Significantly better than
             | what I'm getting for renting a table with a coffee for hour
             | or two for $5.
        
               | gretch wrote:
               | > Well, then it was a great deal
               | 
               | You can go back to university.
        
               | mrtksn wrote:
               | that's totally among my retirement plans :)
        
               | codedokode wrote:
               | You can go as a lecturer in which case they might even
               | pay you.
        
             | pvtmert wrote:
             | outside of USA, i do not think that's true,
             | 
             | given the OP nickname is mrtksn, I presume he is a Turkish
             | person. There are many public (ie. govt. funded)
             | universities in Turkey. Except various touristic places in
             | Istanbul, it would also be possible to "hangout" for an
             | hour in many of smaller cities. Obviously this is degrading
             | as the cities are getting more crowded. Although, most
             | shopping malls having food-court with a "public" area. (ie.
             | An area that belongs to none of the food places, but the
             | shopping mall itself) You could just coast there from 10am
             | in the morning until 10pm in the evening, with free-wifi
             | and no drinks.
             | 
             | Similarly, in Europe, some coffee shops kind of span to the
             | street benches or the window-side seating. For the window-
             | side (outside), you may not be able to sit there for an
             | hour or so, but definitely coastable about 30 minutes. (ie
             | waiting for someone). Meanwhile, public areas are always
             | free-for-all, if the WIFI works, then for sure you can
             | coast all day...
        
         | kmfrk wrote:
         | Last week's submission is a company created to do this, too:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811602.
         | 
         | https://badgeapp.co.
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | At this point I wonder why Starbucks hasn't diversified and
       | started building actual coworking spaces in addition to coffee
       | shops. They look like they should be in an ideal position for
       | that.
        
         | eqvinox wrote:
         | They'd have to charge people for using those, which people
         | won't be eager to. The point of coffee shops in this regard is
         | that the use as _free_ coworking space is  "parasitic" on the
         | space being financed by the cafe business.
        
           | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
           | I wonder how often they try _large_ floor plans. Most
           | Starbucks I see try to keep things small. What happens if you
           | make it a bit larger, like a small library? I wonder if the
           | increase in foot traffic and sales would offset the cost of
           | extra real estate. They could keep it free, but also somewhat
           | cross over into coworking.
        
             | rcpt wrote:
             | It's like parking, if it's free people will take all of it
             | quickly
        
             | bluedino wrote:
             | That's a Barnes and Noble
             | 
             |  _proudly serving Starbucks coffee_
        
             | pvtmert wrote:
             | simply, even cleaning and keeping it tidy is a quadratic
             | equation compared to the space available. people leave
             | their garbage behind or spill their coffee, making a single
             | table somewhat unusable for some time. there are already
             | min. number of employees, mostly busy at the bar. having
             | extra space equals requiring more hands for cleaning, hence
             | cost not linearly increasing but quadratic with the square
             | meter.
             | 
             | another thing is, if the space gets full, people get out
             | anyway, but chance to buy stuff.
             | 
             | for example, let's see there are 2 empty tables right now,
             | you get in to the line, there are 6 people in the queue.
             | imagine 3 of them somewhat occupies the those 2 empty
             | tables, even if you resign the idea of getting coffee, i
             | guarantee you that at least 1 of the other 2 would still
             | get coffee but just move to a nearby park or bench. which
             | starbucks obviously does not pay the rent for...
        
           | willsmith72 wrote:
           | (as long as the campers are considerate) it's also low cost.
           | even prime location starbucks have large lull periods through
           | the day, prime for campers, even though only spending $5-10.
           | 
           | when people feel entitled to take up 2 spaces for hours while
           | families roam for seats is when it's too far
        
           | HSO wrote:
           | they could integrate it with their loyalty points system,
           | whatever it was called, starbucks card or sth
           | 
           | either pay with points, or get a cheaper rate for points, or
           | even get points if you pay normal for the cowirking space
           | 
           | the card could also double as a validator, either for the
           | reserved space or as a key card to a closed one, saving on
           | in-store admin work
           | 
           | if i were starbucks, i would 100% try this
           | 
           | clearly there is a demand for quick and informal working
           | space, instead of a formal, multi month tenant agreement with
           | one limited provider
           | 
           | just go to any store location, and in case of need, pay an
           | hourly rate with your coffee to get a seat
        
             | HSO wrote:
             | PS. they could even apply surge pricing for this. in fact
             | they _should_.
        
               | eqvinox wrote:
               | I was about to make that joke-not-joke, but you beat me
               | to it.
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | If they can get Coca Cola to bring back Surge[1], I will
               | happily pay for Surge pricing
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_(drink)
        
             | jerlam wrote:
             | There was a thread about this exact situation a week ago:
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811602
        
             | pvtmert wrote:
             | not trying to be sarcastic but;
             | 
             | > if i were starbucks, i would 100% try this
             | 
             | which is why you _are_ not starbucks
             | 
             | --
             | 
             | imagine the multitude of laws and regulations in multitude
             | of countries, if you offer co-working space, then you must
             | also register as a landlord, handle mails (not the
             | electronic ones, physical mails), business registrations,
             | etc.
             | 
             | there will be people who would want to stay in after-hours,
             | even if the store is not open. obviously they are paying
             | the rent, hence they have the right to do so.
             | 
             | people will reserve tables/seats, what happens if it's
             | over-booked? there are certain "cool" locations which are
             | extremely busy hot-spots meanwhile others are pretty
             | chill...
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _The point of coffee shops in this regard is that the use as
           | free coworking space_
           | 
           | Incidentally, back when I was doing startups, there were free
           | coworking spaces in the under-utilized portions of the
           | Seattle convention center. Big, squishy chairs, fast wifi,
           | and power ports galore.
           | 
           | It was like a self-service micro tech incubator, and helped
           | me bootstrap a company that lasted over a decade. The State
           | of Washington more than got its money back in taxes.
        
         | tmm wrote:
         | This one[1] has a meeting space that can be closed off from the
         | rest of the store, with a TV or projector, and I'm pretty sure
         | they've got a copier or at least an all-in-one printer.
         | 
         | [1] https://maps.app.goo.gl/47RMhPAGNHXSnED9A
        
         | pm90 wrote:
         | Ive seen some coffee shops do this, where part of the space is
         | a "coworking area".
         | 
         | I imagine it requires a bit more capital investment and
         | knowhow; I get the feeling that franchisees don't have a lot of
         | freedom.
         | 
         | Some Korean coffee shops should try this though!
        
       | Simulacra wrote:
       | If there's no cost, people will take advantage of it.
        
       | mromanuk wrote:
       | They did build something people want, why are they rejecting it
       | now?
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Making something people want isn't enough, unless they want to
         | start paying their employees and leases with smiles.
        
       | samschooler wrote:
       | There is a photo in the Korea Herald article linked in op's
       | article. https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10550038
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | Bizzare entitlement
        
           | testing22321 wrote:
           | People wishing they had a public place they could spend time
           | is entitlement now?
           | 
           | A generation ago it was extremely widespread and taken for
           | granted, now we've lost our "third places"
        
             | urbandw311er wrote:
             | I think it's quite a stretch for you to interpret the
             | parent comment like that. Surely they're referring to
             | people's entitled behaviour in this private space.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | wonder if you can bring a tent inside and camp
        
           | petcat wrote:
           | I understand it's tongue-in-cheek, but you're actually
           | describing a real problem Starbucks and other casual-style
           | restaurants (McDonalds) have in Seattle. The downtown
           | business districts are almost completely overrun by
           | homelessness and many places in the area have stopped
           | offering seating and only offer counter pick-up and standing
           | tables/rails.
        
           | dismalaf wrote:
           | Homeless people do it all the time in certain cities. And
           | because judges won't jail them for crimes police have stopped
           | trying.
        
             | codedokode wrote:
             | Interesting. Can a tourist set up a tent in New York City
             | in order to not pay ridiculous hotel fees or this is
             | allowed only to citizens?
        
             | pm90 wrote:
             | How will jailing them help? Now the public is on the hook
             | for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move
             | all the unhoused in there.
             | 
             | Maybe its easier just to build more housing.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | They're not the kind of people that can afford housing
               | nor the kind that are able to get a rental contract in
               | the first place. And if they had money they'd just shoot
               | up more. Not trying to diss them but that's just reality.
               | 
               | There's very few people homeless because they can't
               | afford it even despite the insane rent prices. Usually
               | it's a ton of untreated mental issues and/or drug
               | addiction.
               | 
               | Building more houses will help regular people a ton but
               | not the homeless. More shelters will. Good and affordable
               | mental healthcare too. But that's "communism" so I guess
               | that won't fly in MAGA America.
        
         | rcpt wrote:
         | Imagine you can get up to the bathroom and nobody steals your
         | monitor
        
           | codedokode wrote:
           | The words "steal" and "bathroom" reminded me of a funny case
           | when hand dryers started disappearing in bathrooms of several
           | shopping malls in a large Russian city. In all cases, there
           | was the same person with a large bag filmed nearby, but as
           | there is no camera inside, it is difficult to understand if
           | he did anything or not. Guess unsupervised tablet (aka
           | "monitor") would not stay there for long.
        
             | petre wrote:
             | Well, Russians stole washing machines from Ukraine, of
             | course they also steal other smaller appliances as well.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | Reminds me a bit of when TPUG in Toronto used to set up entire
         | Commodore PET rigs in coffee shops.
         | 
         | For reference, a Commodore PET weighs about 25 pounds, and is
         | the size of a toilet bowl.
         | 
         | Double all that if you want to use a floppy disk.
        
           | mcculley wrote:
           | Having used a Commdore PET, I cannot stop laughing at this
           | size comparison.
           | 
           | It reminds of the observation that some people will go to
           | great lengths to avoid the metric system.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | That must be a tablet made to look like a desktop setup right?
        
           | Arnavion wrote:
           | Could be a monitor with a mini PC on the back.
        
         | royskee wrote:
         | OMG someone brought in a cubicle
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Are 3d printers allowed?
       | 
       | How about a soldering station?
       | 
       | Or a desktop scanning electron microscope?
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I have a water cooler ... on wheels. Yes? No?
        
         | postalcoder wrote:
         | Amusingly, those are all available at a cafe i've frequented in
         | Seoul.
         | 
         | They're used as background dressing but they're also available
         | to use. It's criminally underused and i'd love to do it but i
         | have no idea what i would make with it.
        
         | function_seven wrote:
         | All of those sound more reasonable than my Model M keyboard.
        
         | seizethecheese wrote:
         | I have soldered in a Starbucks before.
        
       | jdblair wrote:
       | In 2014, in a Starbucks in Los Gatos, CA, I saw someone bring in
       | a (small) desktop PC and a monitor and set it up at a table.
        
         | selimthegrim wrote:
         | My roommate claims she saw the same in the Valley (in Sherman
         | Oaks/VN in LA) in 2019
        
         | ericcumbee wrote:
         | I've seen that as well a few times.
        
       | Nifty3929 wrote:
       | Free, common-use things are awesome - until the tragedy of the
       | commons sets in and ruins it for everybody. This is true of so
       | many things that start free and then later require payment. And
       | everybody gets mad about it.
        
         | stockresearcher wrote:
         | Chicago has "residential zone parking" for the areas of the
         | city that are primarily residential. For $30 per year per car,
         | you get to park on the street in your local zone (2-3 city
         | blocks). Nobody else is allowed to park on the street in that
         | zone. For visitors, you can buy a sheet of stickers for $1 per
         | sticker that enable 1 day of parking. But you can't buy more
         | than 3 sheets in a month (they keep track).
         | 
         | I've always wondered why NYC and other big cities don't do
         | this. It costs so little, yet makes it much easier to park
         | where you live.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Residents love these policies but local businesses tend to
           | hate them.
        
             | stockresearcher wrote:
             | Business zones (IE arterial streets) use metered parking
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Density. If you paid for a parking permit then there's some
           | expectation that a parking spot will be available for you
           | near your house. Except in NYC residents outnumber parking
           | spots 20:1 in some neighborhoods.
        
           | throwaway-blaze wrote:
           | Seattle has this. 2hr parking if you dont have an residential
           | parking zone registration for your car (it's based on license
           | plate).
           | 
           | Surprisingly they charge $190/yr per car for this.
        
         | _aavaa_ wrote:
         | Except a space owned by corporation is not a commons. It's not
         | free and not controlled by the people who use it.
         | 
         | It is designed and completely controlled by a for profit
         | corporation for the purpose of making profit.
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | aww shucks, there goes my plan to pack my Threadripper into a 90s
       | vintage Dolch "portable computer" housing and let Starbucks pay
       | the power bills.
        
       | amadeuspagel wrote:
       | People shouldn't have to bring a desktop computer, they should
       | already have one there.
        
       | PeterStuer wrote:
       | If this is such a pervasive problem you'd think the article would
       | have had no problem sourcing a photo of this instead of some
       | generic phone ogling group?
        
       | MeIam wrote:
       | Printers?! Desktop?! They need to wheel the stuff in. Hilarious
       | how far people go to save a few bucks.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | > _Starbucks South Korea implemented a policy asking patrons to
       | not bring bulky items like desktop computers and printers into
       | stores._
       | 
       | .. says the caption under a Getty image which shows no such
       | thing! No wonder people don 't respect the media.
       | 
       | The only reason I would click on this sort of thing would be to
       | see a video or image of Koreans bringing their desktops and
       | printers to a Starbucks and setting them up.
       | 
       | Without that, I can imagine it just fine without relying on any
       | words in the article.
       | 
       | Searching YouTube, I'm not able to find any videos footage of
       | people with desktops that they brought to a Starbucks in South
       | Korea. The story is circulating and there are various new stories
       | in various languages from various news networks, but all have
       | only generic footage unrelated to the story.
       | 
       | I found this 17-year-old prank video (not Koreans):
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
       | 
       | One 7-year-old video (likewise):
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBRkRZzCeTo
       | 
       | Ho-hum content. They brought a computer, set it up and sat down.
       | 
       | I'm guessing this Korea thing was probably a very small number of
       | people in specific locations (possibly pranksters) and not a
       | national trend.
        
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