[HN Gopher] 1910: The year the modern world lost its mind
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       1910: The year the modern world lost its mind
        
       Author : purgator
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2025-08-10 20:48 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.derekthompson.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.derekthompson.org)
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | If I remember correctly, the Wright Brothers were bicycle
       | mechanics; which, I guess, was kind of a big deal, back then.
        
         | JJMcJ wrote:
         | They manufactured bicycles, then the apex of precision mass
         | produced products, and they also had a quite scientific
         | approach to the design of their aircraft, with wind tunnels,
         | for example.
         | 
         | They were also the first to understand that steering the
         | airplane was best done by warping the airfoils. Now we do it
         | with rudders and elevators and flaps, then they did the whole
         | surface.
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | Nice! I never realized that they were working in the "hi
           | tech" of the time.
           | 
           | Their accomplishments make more sense to me now!
        
       | ares623 wrote:
       | Thankfully nothing horrible happened in the next 10 years or so
        
         | cs702 wrote:
         | Yeah.
         | 
         | Anyone with even a vague awareness of history is aware of the
         | historical parallels.
         | 
         | Let's hope saner heads will prevail in these times of rapid
         | change.
        
           | bravesoul2 wrote:
           | Can be break the systems that keep leading us to the next
           | such war. For example the lack of true representation for the
           | people. The seige of governments by the rich and "elite".
           | Stupid decisions made by people who kill their kids for a
           | buck (referencing climate change). Dismantling of
           | international conventions that were the result of people from
           | a harder time saying "hold on... this is too fucked".
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | No doubt exacerbated by, and in turn promoting, neuroasthenia
        
       | GOD_Over_Djinn wrote:
       | I thought this bit was fascinating:
       | 
       | > Blom begins with Stravinsky, whose famous orchestral work The
       | Rite of Spring was inspired by ancient Russian dance rituals. A
       | melange of old folk music and arresting dissonance, the piece's
       | first performance in Paris 1913 triggered one of the most
       | infamously violent reactions of any concert-hall audience in
       | history. As Blom puts it bluntly, "all hell broke loose":
       | 
       | > "During the first two minutes the public remained quiet,'
       | Monteux [a musician] later recalled, "then there were boos and
       | hissing from the upper circle, soon after from the stalls. People
       | sitting next to one another began to hit one another on the head
       | with fists and walking sticks, or whatever else they had to hand.
       | Soon, their anger was turned against the dancers and especially
       | against the orchestra... Everything to hand was thrown at them,
       | but we continued playing. The chaos was complete when members of
       | the audience turned on one another, on anyone supporting the
       | other side. A heavily bejewelled lady was seen slapping her
       | neighbour before storming off, while another one spat in her
       | detractor's face. Fights broke out everywhere and challenges to
       | duels were issued."
       | 
       | There's something about the image of a concert hall full of rich,
       | fancy people erupting in a melee that is just delightful
        
         | andrewparker wrote:
         | If this is your cup of tea, it's worth reading about the Astor
         | Place riots over Shakespeare performances in NYC
        
           | GOD_Over_Djinn wrote:
           | I most certainly will, thank you for the suggestion!
        
         | russellbeattie wrote:
         | You know, I just listened to it [1] and I can see why there was
         | such a strong visceral reaction to the piece! "Dissonant" is
         | definitely the right description. It's almost painful to listen
         | to, especially if you were expecting normal concert music. Is
         | it enough to cause a riot? Maybe!
         | 
         | 1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwqPJZe8ms
        
         | eszed wrote:
         | > concert hall full of rich, fancy people
         | 
         | Not to harsh your schadenfreude buzz, but this is not the right
         | image. Classical music was mass culture at the time.
         | 
         | Opera, in particular, was popular with all classes. (There's a
         | delightful sequence in, I think?, "The Leopard" of brick-layers
         | coming to blows over the merits of one singer versus another.)
         | Recordings of famous singers were the first "hit" gramaphone
         | records. Enrico Caruso sold out concerts all over the world -
         | and (in legend, at least) sometimes gave impromptu balcony
         | concerts to disappointed punters gathered in the street below.
        
       | eschulz wrote:
       | I'm reminded of how time pieces such as sundials changed
       | societies, and how some ancients almost lost their minds due to
       | this new development.
       | 
       | "The Gods confound the man who first found out How to distinguish
       | the hours---confound him, too Who in this place set up a sundial
       | To cut and hack my days so wretchedly Into small pieces ! . . . I
       | can't (even sit down to eat) unless the sun gives leave. The
       | town's so full of these confounded dials . . ." -- Plautus
        
         | go_elmo wrote:
         | Finally someone who understands me. Whatever becomes
         | measurable, becomes controllable, which is the antidote to
         | freedom, wildness, life (to some extent)..
        
           | supportengineer wrote:
           | I'm ethically torn whether to upvote this
        
           | sdenton4 wrote:
           | My favorite Samuel Delany story is about a woman in a village
           | who invents writing, and teaches it to all the children. She
           | makes a rule that you're never allowed to write down people's
           | names, as it will inevitably lead to keeping records
           | comparing people, and thus leading to strife...
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Being able to have simplicity of working on a task until it
           | is done when society didn't have these per hour scheduling
           | concepts. I remember hearing this referenced when learning
           | about Amish and Native American cultures. Essentially, this
           | is what were doing. When it is finished, we move on to next.
           | No arbitrary start/stop time because some hand on a dial is
           | pointing at a certain number.
        
         | verbify wrote:
         | > some ancients almost lost their minds due to this new
         | development
         | 
         | Platus lived 254 - 184 BC. Sundials are from 1500BC. While it's
         | a great quote, it certainly wasn't a new invention when he
         | wrote it.
        
           | eschulz wrote:
           | Being invented doesn't mean that they became commonly used.
           | Many ancient inventions took thousands of years to rollout
           | and be adopted by the vast majority of humans.
        
             | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
             | Perhaps, but the quote also doesn't read to me like someone
             | ranting about a _new_ invention, just one that he wished
             | had never been invented. Just like I might find myself
             | occasionally cursing whoever invented the idea of an office
             | building, even though it predates me.
        
             | verbify wrote:
             | Sure, but is there anything in that quote that suggests
             | it's a reaction to new technology rather than just a
             | rumination on existing technology?
        
           | xandrius wrote:
           | Yep, they definitely could have bought it from Amazon.
        
             | inglor_cz wrote:
             | The Mediterranean was a tightly connected civilizational
             | region, so if a certain invention was in use anywhere, it
             | would spread at the speed of a sailing ship to the rest of
             | the coast.
             | 
             | Already prior to the rise of the Roman Empire, there was a
             | massive network of Phoenician and Greek colonies that would
             | trade with one another constantly, from Cadiz to the
             | Levant. The sea was a highway to them.
             | 
             | Amazon did not exist, but cunning merchants absolutely did,
             | and they knew how to make money by selling attractive
             | goods.
        
           | noosphr wrote:
           | Electric cars were invented in 1881 a full 4 years before the
           | first internal combustion car.
        
             | whaleofatw2022 wrote:
             | Kinda interesting to ask what would have gone different if
             | the infrastructure was in place to make electric cars 'good
             | enough' as far as charging infrastructure.
        
         | zzo38computer wrote:
         | I do believe that time keeping, computers, and other technology
         | are overused and overly relied on. (There is also damaging
         | other stuff due to these technology, which is another issue.
         | There are other issues too; these are clearly not the only
         | thing.) They have their uses, but should not be excessive at
         | the expense of anything else. If they fail, then you won't do
         | unless you know and have not destroyed the older possibility,
         | and if they do not fail, then you may be trapped by them. You
         | should not need to know what time it is to sit down to eat, or
         | to wake up and to sleep, etc.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | I can't imagine what it would have been like to grow up with
       | horse and carriages only to see us landing on the moon before you
       | die. That's some serious societal whiplash.
       | 
       | I do like to imagine future generations looking back on the era
       | of the internal combustion engines with absolute horror.
       | 
       |  _" You won't believe this, but for like 200 years, any time a
       | person wanted a machine to move stuff, those apes would carry
       | around tens of gallons of some crazy toxic combustible fluid
       | which they'd spray into a heavy block of metal then bung 20,000
       | volts of electricity through it to make it explode. Just to spin
       | a wheel! Then they'd pump the poisonous fumes out from the rear
       | of the machine like a cloud of evil flatulence. Into the same air
       | they breathed! There were literally billions of these machines
       | all over the planet. Everyone owned one! There was so much of it,
       | the planet started getting hotter! It was crazy!!"_
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | I'm envy of people of the past having real freedom in their
         | lives. I wouldn't be surprised that future generation would
         | envy of us, who have the freedom to move fast anywhere.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | Indeed.
         | 
         | Here's one for you: There's a 10-15% chance, even barring
         | radical life extension tech, that I'll live long enough to see
         | the moon completely disassembled by von Neumann replicators.
        
           | nathan_compton wrote:
           | How could you possible come up with 10-15%?
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | Eyeballing a sigmoid curve for TRL development times:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_readiness_level
             | 
             | There's several things that it depends on which are TRL
             | 1-3, but are known to be at least theoretically possible.
             | Based on how long it takes to get other things from TRL 1
             | to working device, I think it's most likely to take longer
             | than my current remaining life expectancy even to be even
             | odds, but not by such a large margin as to be infinitesimal
             | odds.
        
           | ryankrage77 wrote:
           | Dismantling the moon would disrupt the Earth's orbit, so the
           | most likely version of this scenario is not beneficial/benign
           | (e.g, grey goo scenario), so you need to factor in the chance
           | that you'll be dissasembled before you see it happen to the
           | moon.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | > Dismantling the moon would disrupt the Earth's orbit
             | 
             | Not by itself. I basically agree with your broader point,
             | of course, but on this particular detail, if someone's goal
             | is to turn the moon into something like a Culture Orbital
             | with the Earth at the centre*, the overall momentum of the
             | system doesn't need to change.
             | 
             | * Or the old barycentre at the centre. This is also a
             | terrible idea, please don't do this. Apart from anything
             | else, mistakes are inevitable and large chunks of moon/O
             | will rain down on us.
        
         | mjamesaustin wrote:
         | That will pale in comparison to how future generations view
         | plastics.
         | 
         | Imagine if we ate and drank out of lead paint containers
         | constantly for decades before discovering their health impacts.
         | That's basically what has happened with plastics.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Plastic isn't remotely as toxic as lead
        
           | teamonkey wrote:
           | Lead was used as a sweetener in food for hundreds of years
        
       | marc_abonce wrote:
       | Based on the title I thought that the article was going to
       | include the Mexican Revolution, which also started in 1910.
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | During the early industrial revolution people used to present
       | themselves for medical help after complaining that the incessant
       | repetitive action and rotation of engines (e.g. beam engines)
       | hundreds of miles away from them was sending them vibrations
       | which disturbed their sleep. Of course they only started having
       | this problem after reading about such contraptions in newspapers.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Something similar happened in more modern times with a cell
         | tower, although it's over a decade ago now:
         | https://gizmodo.com/locals-complain-of-radio-tower-illness-t...
        
         | cobbzilla wrote:
         | Loud low sounds can travel very far, especially at night when
         | it's quiet. I can hear freight trains at night that are over 5
         | miles away. It wouldn't surprise me if the beam engine was
         | louder than a freight train, and that nights were even quieter
         | in the early 20th century. Hundreds of miles is a bit much
         | though.
        
       | alexpotato wrote:
       | For examples of other books that show how much technology rapidly
       | changed the world, I can't recommend "The Victorian Internet" [0]
       | highly enough. (It describes the impact of the telegraph).
       | 
       | I remember reading the book in the mid to late 2000s and it felt
       | so "current" in describing events of the day e.g.
       | 
       | - local newspapers were basically crushed by "international news"
       | that arrived immediately
       | 
       | - the rate of commerce rapidly accelerated as people could
       | communicate instantly around the world
       | 
       | - financial markets were impacted by the "low latency trading" of
       | the day thanks to financial news being sent via telegraph.
       | 
       | - there is even a section about lawyers debating if contracts and
       | marriages could be signed over the telegraph (like this on in
       | particular as this was a debate in the early ecommerce days)
       | 
       | I was then shocked to find that it has been published in the
       | 1990s. Really is a reminder that "new" technologies are often
       | just updated versions of old technologies.
       | 
       | 0 - https://amzn.to/4frEGyC
       | 
       | (NOTE: the link above takes you to a later edition)
        
         | AshamedCaptain wrote:
         | If you have children, I am often surprised how they seem to
         | think that the previous generation was stone age. Particular
         | example is that my daughter was surprised I would give orders
         | to my broker via fax, and that the latency was practically the
         | same they get on the free tiers of their online 2020s bank
         | (this is France). My trusty old ThinkPad, which still boots as
         | if 30 years hadn't passed, still has all such digitalized
         | sent/received faxes I did in the 90s..
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | Children in general have a very hard time grasping the idea
           | that their parents' lives resembled their own at all. For
           | another example, look how every generation of teenagers,
           | without fail, thinks they are the first people in the world
           | to invent having sex for fun. I myself didn't understand how
           | my parents used to easily catch me in most of my attempts to
           | get away with trouble, until I realized (as an adult) that
           | they caught me so easily because they tried the same sorts of
           | things as kids themselves. It's just human nature, I guess.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I heard an anecdote recently where the kids asked mom what
             | it was like when they were a kid. Mom collected the mobile
             | devices and turned off the internet.
        
           | villedespommes wrote:
           | Because it was in many ways, the same as a generation before
           | that and one before that.
           | 
           | 40+yy ago, HIV was still a death sentence, lung cancer slid
           | to the 3-4th position in CODs caused by cancer. Late 90s saw
           | the introduction of gene therapies. New drugs for diabetes
           | and heart disease came to the market. These aren't small
           | incremental QoL improvements; these advancements saved
           | millions of lives since then.
           | 
           | All this progress should be celebrated, not trivialized
        
           | thomassmith65 wrote:
           | I occasionally notice that people younger than me seem more
           | impressed by smartphones than me (and I assume, maybe
           | incorrectly, my generation).
           | 
           | One theory I have for this is that younger people are taught
           | by teachers, when they are at an impressionable age, to
           | revere the smartphone as the pinnacle of human achievement.
           | 
           | To me, the smartphone impressed me for a couple years, but
           | it's just one of many miracles of miniaturization I've lived
           | through - and less qualitatively different than, for example,
           | personal computers or the GUI or the internet going public.
           | 
           | My father noticed a similar phenomenon with Rock n Roll.
           | People younger than him saw it as a musical sea-change, but
           | to him it just sounded like the boogie woogie music the radio
           | already had been playing for a decade.
        
         | eszed wrote:
         | That book - first published in 1998 - was one of my favorites
         | for a while. An overt theme was the the astounding parallels
         | between early-internet culture and the social practices of
         | telegraph operators. At night (particularly) they'd stay
         | "online", shooting the breeze with each other, forming long
         | distance friendships - even romances! - and semi-anonymously
         | socializing in ways that felt immediately and intimately
         | familiar to those of us were on the internet around that time.
         | I think that 'net is nearly as dead as the telegraph, so I
         | wonder how the book lands for readers who didn't experience
         | that milieu.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | PBS did a special on how TV news came to dominance with
         | coverage of the JFK assassination called "JFK: Breaking the
         | News".
         | 
         | https://www.pbs.org/video/jfk-breaking-the-news-d7borr/
         | 
         | Similarly, CNN essentially became the mainstay with live
         | coverage of the start of Desert Storm in '91.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Gulf_War
        
         | basch wrote:
         | Two other good books are
         | 
         | The Railway Journey: The Industrialization of Time and Space in
         | the Nineteenth Century" by Wolfgang Schivelbusch
         | 
         | It's about how if you think about distance as spacetime, that
         | trains moved cities closer together by making the distance
         | between them shorter. They shrink the world.
         | 
         | The Ghost of the Executed Engineer" by Loren Graham
         | 
         | About how Soviet era projects thought they could throw pure
         | labor at massive scale engineering problems to overcome any
         | problem, to their detriment.
        
         | mhalle wrote:
         | You might also like "When Old Technologies Were New", which
         | describes about how electricity and communication in the home
         | changed society.
         | 
         | For instance, it tells the possibly apocryphal story of how the
         | telephone allowed male suitors to call reach young women
         | directly and thereby bypass both protective parents and long-
         | time traditional romantic competitors. Getting a phone call was
         | so exceptional that people had not yet built up any social
         | defenses for it.
         | 
         | https://a.co/d/fnBimUx
        
         | wrp wrote:
         | The Penny Post, introduced in England in 1840, may have been an
         | even greater catalyst of social change. Within urban areas,
         | communication latency was surprisingly low. Londoners got five
         | deliveries per day.
        
       | louwrentius wrote:
       | I'm not anxious about rapid technological change.
       | 
       | I care about the fact that technology is used to undermine
       | democracy and destroy social cohesion.
        
         | rjbwork wrote:
         | Yeah but like 23 dudes can have more money than god, so this is
         | a moral imperative.
        
       | gus_massa wrote:
       | > _cultural critics of the early 1900s were confident that it was
       | unnatural for people to move so quickly_
       | 
       | Google says that horses can go up to 70 km/h (45mi/h). Did cars
       | (and bicicles) go so fast then?
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | No one said it was a rational objection.
        
         | rpcope1 wrote:
         | That's basically a full out sprint for a relatively fast horse.
         | Most can't sustain that for long and definitely not with a lot
         | of load. Steam, gas, and diesel engines were and are capable of
         | sustaining that for long durations with greater load, hence why
         | it seems so jarring. Especially for large loads, even the
         | earliest trucks were probably moving must faster than draft
         | horses.
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | In the book _The Count of Monte Cristo_ , one of the ways the
         | eponymous Count flaunts his unfathomable wealth is by posting
         | many horses to wait for him in advance all along the highways,
         | allowing his carriage to travel all across France in a single
         | night by continually changing to fresh horses. Even his wealthy
         | rivals are astonished by this feat. So while it may have been
         | technologically possible it would have been very expensive.
        
         | perching_aix wrote:
         | According to this [0] thread, typical car travel speeds were
         | between 10 and 20 mph. They even mention specifics like:
         | 
         | > in 1904 in NYC the limit was set to 12 mph inside of the city
         | and 15 mph outside of it.
         | 
         | With that 12 mph figure being a little under the average
         | running speed of the record holder marathon runner (26.2 miles
         | in 2 hours flat, so 13.1 mph).
         | 
         | Now of course, most people are not record holding athletes, so
         | sustaining these speeds on foot is not happening. But you can
         | definitely at least keep up for the duration of a sprint. So no
         | real need for a horse even, your own legs can make do.
         | 
         | You can also sustain these speeds with a bicycle today, not
         | sure about the bicycles of then.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/Writeresearch/comments/hmy0h4/what_...
        
       | derbOac wrote:
       | The acceleration is evident in public health trends as well,
       | especially in perinatal and childhood deaths and infectious
       | disease.
       | 
       | The last 150-200 years really is remarkable historically
       | speaking. I don't think we've grasped what to do with it
       | completely.
        
         | elcritch wrote:
         | I believe it'll take centuries before a new equilibrium is
         | reached. There's likely a lot of challenges and strifes to come
         | in this century alone.
        
       | cgh wrote:
       | Anyone interested in a fictional take on this period could
       | consider Pynchon's "Against the Day", although it is no light
       | challenge. It takes place between the 1893 Chicago World's Fair
       | and the years following WW1 and, appropriately, tells a
       | sprawling, disorienting story that feels overwhelming at times.
        
       | bgwalter wrote:
       | In other news, radioactivity was embraced to the point that
       | radium was used everywhere
       | (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls) and shoe stores were
       | offering x-rays.
       | 
       | Today, even the Internet's positive impact is wildly debated, the
       | LLM copyright issues are wildly debated and no data exists for
       | the long term impact of LLM usage on the reasoning faculties (if
       | you tell me that the article was not posted to discredit LLM
       | skeptics, I have a bridge to sell you).
        
       | abbadadda wrote:
       | > Disoriented by the speed of modern times, Europeans and
       | Americans suffered from record-high rates of anxiety and a sense
       | that our inventions had destroyed our humanity.
       | 
       | Were they wrong?
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | If they're right, our humanity was destroyed long before any of
         | us were born.
         | 
         | So... how would we know?
        
           | chairmansteve wrote:
           | Maybe "destroyed" is too strong a word. I would say
           | "suppressed" is better, at least for some people.
           | 
           | Spend 3 days in deep nature, or meditate etc, and you can
           | uncover your humanity....
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | Yeah our lives are mostly noise, we flip between working
             | and "chilling" with virtually no inbetween idleness
             | anymore.
             | 
             | Go look at the clouds, or better the stars, for some time.
             | But don't do it tool long because you might start wondering
             | why the fuck you're wasting so much time and energy
             | fulfilling other people's TODO lists
        
         | djeastm wrote:
         | Humanity had its inherent problems well before any technology
         | was invented.
        
           | saulpw wrote:
           | Yes but technology exacerbated them. The great wars of the
           | 20th century killed 10s of millions of people, 10x more per
           | year than any other conflict.
        
             | teamonkey wrote:
             | Man-made climate change is also new experience for
             | humanity.
        
             | bawolff wrote:
             | Maybe, but what about per capita? More people participating
             | equals more people killed, but at the same time i dont
             | think you need high technology to engage in a mass
             | slaughter, swords work just as well.
        
       | leeoniya wrote:
       | > "Automobilism is an illness, a mental illness. This illness has
       | a pretty name: speed... [Man] can no longer stand still, he
       | shivers, his nerves tense like springs, impatient to get going
       | once he has arrived somewhere because it is not somewhere else,
       | somewhere else, always somewhere else."
       | 
       | Previously:
       | 
       | "All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit
       | quietly in a room alone."
       | 
       | -- Blaise Pascal (~1650)
        
         | teamonkey wrote:
         | Pascal's quote rings differently today.
        
       | labrador wrote:
       | I recently finished an audiobook that describes the history of
       | cocaine and opiate use in that era. The drugs were unregulated
       | until addiction became an issue. I'm interested in how drugs
       | shape our society so I appreciate books like this that fill in
       | the missing history.
       | 
       | David Farber - Crack: Rock Cocaine, Street Capitalism, and the
       | Decade of Greed [Audiobook]
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxm0hYnGezA
        
         | theragra wrote:
         | It was extremely widespread in Russian Empire too. To the
         | extent that not only poets and artists used morphine and
         | cocaine, but also some high ranking officials. One of the
         | police chiefs, for example, was both morphinist and alcoholic.
        
       | starchild3001 wrote:
       | USA had a nearly constant per person economic growth rate of
       | 2%/year in the last ~150 years, perhaps going as far back as the
       | beginning of industrial revolution.
       | 
       | Extrapolating such curves into the future suggests the current AI
       | revolution is simply the last and latest node in a string of
       | revolutions and it's nothing special.
       | 
       | If you think about it, having the world's all information at your
       | fingertips (google), and in your pocket (iphone) might have been
       | equally revolutionary. And before that came TV, radio, car,
       | train, boat, plane, electricity, gas engine, steam engine etc as
       | revolutions.
       | 
       | There's nothing that suggests the economic output per person is
       | accelerating beyond the historical 2%/year. What could be
       | reasons? Perhaps limited electricity, compute, AI model quality,
       | computer speed etc.
       | 
       | So, the more analytical side of me thinks what we're experiencing
       | is nothing extraordinary. It's just another revolution in a
       | string of many :)
       | 
       | Obviously, my other, the more human side gets scared and feels
       | afraid about the meaning of life, and humanity's place in it.
        
         | dgfitz wrote:
         | Statistical next-token predictors that aren't even correct some
         | of the time, and are currently crafted to pass tests, isn't
         | what I would consider revolutionary.
         | 
         | They're neat tools. They help some people (a much, much smaller
         | group of people than most think) be a bit more productive.
         | 
         | If LLMs are considered revolutionary, we are stagnating.
        
         | visarga wrote:
         | Yes, for information and reference we already had Wikipedia and
         | billions of web pages indexed in Google, searchable by keyword.
         | For questions we had reddit, StackOverflow and forums. For
         | chatting we had social networks, chatting with real humans. For
         | image we had only search, but within billions of images. Faster
         | than gen AI, and made by humans. For code we had hundreds of
         | thousands of repos.
         | 
         | We already had the genAI goodies for 2 decades. It's not going
         | to be such a shocking change.
        
       | theragra wrote:
       | If you think america moved too fast in the beginning of the
       | century, try Russian Empire. Not only the same technological
       | marvels as everywhere in the west, but also three revolutions and
       | several wars. Change of government from monarchy to
       | parlamentarism to socialism. Also, countless posts, painters and
       | new genres of art.
       | 
       | If you know Russian, Dusk Of The Empire podcast is pretty cool.
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCL7ox52jCNuMcckQSc0o5HQ#botto...
        
         | chairmansteve wrote:
         | Seems like the Russian empire didn't really progress, just went
         | around in circles.
         | 
         | And now the USA is starting to circle back.
        
           | theragra wrote:
           | Well, technologically everyone progresses. But societal
           | change seems to be much harder. Still, most people were
           | illiterate and young children were valued close to nothing
           | among peasants. Children mortality up to 5 years old was 60%.
           | 
           | Thinking of it, even current (terrible) war pales in
           | comparison.
        
             | elcritch wrote:
             | Oddly that puts the old Roman social conception of children
             | bit more into perspective. They viewed children as nuisance
             | to adults, particularly to men, from what I gather. Not
             | that later European or other cultures were much different.
             | 
             | Makes a cold sorta sense - why even bother getting too
             | close to them if most won't even survive to become a useful
             | adult. Rough world.
        
       | stevenfoster wrote:
       | I remember reading Theodore Roosevelt's biography by Edmund
       | Morris and being shocked how he was basically able to text
       | everyone he needed to be in contact with while president through
       | the telegraph system.
        
       | ofalkaed wrote:
       | Thomas Pynchon's _Against the Day_ is an interesting read on this
       | and explores the rapid changes in a far more human way than
       | anything else I have read on the period. He renders it as the
       | period when technology and knowledge ceased being things of the
       | select few and become a large enough part of the average person
       | 's life, and this being what caused the real change; knowledge
       | fundamentally changed society's relationship with the unknown and
       | technology played a shell game with what is inconvenient. His
       | treatment of photography and the development of film is really
       | interesting and does an amazing job of showing what we lost as
       | well as what we gained.
        
       | Macha wrote:
       | One example that was recently pointed out to me: the first 737
       | was closer in time to the wright brothers first flight than to
       | today
        
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