[HN Gopher] "The Hollow Men" at 100
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       "The Hollow Men" at 100
        
       Author : flanged
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2025-08-09 20:48 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (prufrock.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (prufrock.substack.com)
        
       | hyperhello wrote:
       | The Hollow Men is from 1925. Try to read it like a beatnik poet,
       | world-weary and confident, with finger snaps and bongo drums or a
       | jazz orchestra in the background. Eliot was a fascinating fellow
       | traveler person. My favorite site for his poems is here:
       | https://mypoeticside.com/poets/t-s-eliot-poems
        
         | lemonberry wrote:
         | I find conjuring my inner Maynard G. Krebs helps a lot.
        
           | xhkkffbf wrote:
           | Yes, a funny character and a spot-on parody of the genre, but
           | I found it really insightful to watch some interviews with
           | Jack Kerouac to get a feel for his personality. It's a bit
           | different from our rosy-eyed view of that era. He was harder
           | and harsher than we want to imagine.
        
             | lemonberry wrote:
             | Absolutely. I still enjoy his books.
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | I recommend the same thing for the actual beatniks themselves
         | like Kerouac. You have to read it like spoken poetry, not
         | merely written. This song uses lines from one of his stories
         | and when set to music it fits perfectly.
         | 
         | https://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/default/files/inline-pdf...
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/CMMBP19ma60?si=lB6gzWBtaZp2f_Oy
        
         | multjoy wrote:
         | He was also a virulent anti-semite
        
           | alkyon wrote:
           | Like Wagner and lots of other artists around that time.
           | Agatha Christie's most famous novel? - Ten Little Niggers.
           | Jean Genet was a convicted criminal. I try to separate the
           | work from the artist, even if it's difficult.
        
             | multjoy wrote:
             | OP doesn't even acknowledge it.
             | 
             | Eliot chose, in 1948, when the Holocaust was common
             | knowledge, to reprint a poem that contains the line:
             | 
             | >On the Rialto once./The rats are underneath the piles. The
             | jew is underneath the lot.
             | 
             | That isn't a poet following a common zeitgeist, that is a
             | deliberate, provocative act.
        
           | danans wrote:
           | Which was sadly not uncommon in those days. The Nazi party
           | had a significant following in both the US and the UK at that
           | time.
        
             | multjoy wrote:
             | That doesn't make it any better. They also had significant
             | opposition.
        
               | danans wrote:
               | Indeed, they had opposition. However, the way we have
               | been taught history has been laundered to make us think
               | that Nazi ideology never had a significant base of
               | support outside of Germany, when the truth was that it
               | was not only significant, but segregated American society
               | under Jim Crow was in several ways a model for the Nazis.
        
               | aspenmayer wrote:
               | US treatment of migrant workers under the Bracero program
               | and US usage of Zyklon B on migrant workers as a
               | delousing agent directly inspired Nazis. This came to a
               | head at the so-called bath riots in 1917:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Bath_riots
               | 
               | This has come up a couple times before on HN:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38552760
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40381708
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40382627
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40646876
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | The beatniks were most active in the 50s, maybe as early as the
         | mid 40s, but definitely not 1925.
        
         | danans wrote:
         | Though their genres and styles were completely different, the
         | timing of his work, its reflections on the trauma of WW1, and
         | then his conversion to conservative Catholicism reminds me more
         | of Tolkien.
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | He wasn't actually Catholic-Catholic, but Anglo-Catholic, a
           | faction within the Anglican church which revived a lot of
           | Catholic liturgical practices without entering into communion
           | with Rome.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | For those interested in Eliot, the BBC has a lot of stuff
       | (criticism, recordings, etc.) in various places. Just search for
       | "bbc ts eliot".
        
       | strken wrote:
       | Here's my favourite reading:
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=nwcP3NOCeiE.
        
         | rikroots wrote:
         | I was going to respond saying how much I dislike the way the
         | narrator reads the poem - like a vicar 45 minutes into an
         | overlong Sunday sermon, as bored as the congregation - then I
         | saw the OP article included a link to Eliot reading his own
         | poem. And that one sounds like the vicar now entering the third
         | hour of his overlong Sunday sermon. So I have to agree: your
         | favourite reading is the better reading of the poem.
        
       | every wrote:
       | This is the poem I used for speech contests in high school...
        
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       (page generated 2025-08-10 23:01 UTC)