[HN Gopher] Which colors are primary?
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       Which colors are primary?
        
       Author : Michelangelo11
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2025-08-06 10:06 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jamesgurney.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jamesgurney.substack.com)
        
       | chowells wrote:
       | No mention that both sets of primaries come from the biology of
       | the average human eye, and other animals might be better served
       | by other colors? Ok, yeah, that's not really relevant to the
       | point the article was actually getting to, but I think it's
       | important to remember. There's nothing magical about those
       | colors. They effectively stimulate color receptors in our eyes
       | such that our brains interpret the input in ways that can be
       | combined to cover a pretty large gamut of the full range our eyes
       | can perceive.
       | 
       | But as for what the article actually does focus on, I absolutely
       | agree. You can create some really striking art by restricting
       | your gamut to the range you can cover with a particular set of
       | pigments.
        
         | Hobadee wrote:
         | In addition to this, there will always be 2 sets of "primary"
         | colors for a given eye: Additive and Subtractive.
         | 
         | Additive primary colors are necessary when you have no light,
         | and need to create color. Think a black screen, and you are
         | creating colors with RGB pixels.
         | 
         | Subtractive primary colors are necessary when you have full-
         | spectrum (white) light and need to filter down to a single
         | color.
         | 
         | Other "primary" colors, such as the red, blue, yellow pigment
         | primaries we learned in Kindergarten exist because pigments
         | historical couldn't be created perfectly, and those "primaries"
         | are the best way of getting the most colors, but still have a
         | very limited (by comparison) gamut.
        
           | kurthr wrote:
           | Yes, one challenge with defining Subtractive primaries is
           | that they are dependent on the white point of the "white"
           | light source (e.g. D65 vs D50). While this seems
           | inconvenient, it's worth noting that the apparent color of
           | greys for Additive primaries is also dependent on surrounding
           | illumination.
           | 
           | So primaries are useful for generating roughly orthogonal
           | changes in perceived color, but they don't tell you how they
           | will be perceived in absolute terms without knowing
           | surrounding illumination. In the simplest case, asking if
           | something is bright (even without color) is impossible
           | without knowing the surroundings.
        
           | Diggsey wrote:
           | > There will always be 2 sets of "primary" colors for a given
           | eye: Additive and Subtractive.
           | 
           | If your eye only has two types of cone cells then your
           | additive and subtractive primaries are the same ;)
        
         | gizmo686 wrote:
         | I think that understanding how eyes and light work is very
         | informative on this subject.
         | 
         | Why are there 3 primary colors (regardless of which 3 you
         | pick)? That has nothing to do with the nature of light, and
         | everything to do with the fact that humans see light using 3
         | distinct frequency response curves [0]. This means that humans
         | perceive color as a 3 dimensional space; and the role of the
         | primary colors is to pick a point in this space by selectively
         | stimulating or masking the 3 response curves. In a world of
         | pure linear algebra, almost any 3 colors would do, but physical
         | reality limits how ideally we can mix them; and how much light
         | they can emit/mask.
         | 
         | Further, the 3 response curves are overlapping, so there is no
         | set of ideal colors that would let you actually control the 3
         | curves independently.
         | 
         | [0] At least for color perception in a typical human.
        
           | sdeframond wrote:
           | Related: some colors can only be perceived by selectively
           | hitting the right cells with tiny lasers.
           | 
           | https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/researchers-
           | disco...
        
             | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
             | Put this in a VR headset, and maybe they'll finally sell?
             | Ultra HDR
        
           | morninglight wrote:
           | I am surprised that the Purkinje effect and the degree of
           | illumination are not mentioned. For example, should the
           | primary colors be shifted depending on illumination?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect
        
       | kens wrote:
       | Related is that English has 11 basic color terms: black, white,
       | red, green, yellow, blue, brown, orange, pink, purple, and gray.
       | As a result, trying to teach cyan and magenta as primary colors
       | will be much harder than teaching blue and red as primary colors.
       | 
       | For more on basic color terms:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_term#Basic_color_terms
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | You don't think 5-year-olds can learn two new fancy colors?
        
         | adrian_b wrote:
         | While you are right, "magenta" is just a fancy synonym for
         | "purple". It might have been chosen instead of "purple" because
         | the traditional word could be applied to colors having various
         | proportions of red and blue, while "magenta" is intended to
         | convey that the amounts of red and blue are equal. However all
         | the traditional color names, like "red", "green" or "blue"
         | refer to wide ranges of hues, not to a precise hue, so there
         | was really no good reason for the use of the word "magenta".
         | 
         | "Cyan" is a very bad word choice caused by confusions in the
         | translations of Ancient Greek texts made by philologists
         | ignorant of chemistry and mineralogy. In Ancient Greek, "cyan"
         | meant pure blue, not blue-green. More precisely, it was the
         | color of the ultramarine blue pigment, the most expensive blue
         | pigment at that time, which was imported from the present
         | territory of Afghanistan and for which the name "ku-wa-no" was
         | already used by the Hittites, a millennium before the Greeks.
         | Nowadays ultramarine blue is still used as a pigment, but it is
         | made synthetically, so its cost is a small fraction of what it
         | was before the 19th century.
         | 
         | Before the use of "cyan" has started, the color name "blue-
         | green" had been used for a very long time. Similarly, "orange"
         | is a relatively new English word, but the color had been
         | mentioned for many centuries, as "red-yellow" or "yellow-red".
         | 
         | So the awareness of distinct hues is not necessarily limited to
         | the set of simple color words, because most languages have used
         | compound words to name the hues for which they did not have a
         | simple word.
         | 
         | Other languages have used the names of well-known colored
         | objects to distinguish the hues that did not have distinct
         | names. For instance, in Latin the word for "red" was used for
         | both red colors and purple colors. When Latin speakers wanted
         | to specify whether something was red or purple, they would say
         | "red like the kermes (red) dye" or "red like the purple dye"
         | (the word "purple" as a color name comes from the latter
         | expression). Similarly, in Latin the word for green meant
         | either green or blue-green. To distinguish the 2 colors, a
         | Latin speaker would say "green like grass" or "green like
         | leaves" or "green like emeralds" for expressing "green" and
         | "green like the littoral sea" or "green like beryls" or "green
         | like turquoise gems" for expressing "blue-green". So they were
         | well aware about the differences between these colors, even if
         | they did not have distinct words for them.
        
       | LynxInLA wrote:
       | You may recognize the author of this blog, he created and
       | illustrated the Dinotopia series of books in the 90s.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinotopia
        
         | _qua wrote:
         | I loved those books when I was a kid
        
       | iambateman wrote:
       | This fact blew my mind as an adult...I thought that colors were
       | in fact derived from one another for my whole childhood.
       | 
       | I don't understand why we can't teach the color wheel as a true
       | wheel.
       | 
       | But then again I recently said to a friend that "primary colors
       | is just a social construct" and that didn't go so well...
        
         | SkiFire13 wrote:
         | > I don't understand why we can't teach the color wheel as a
         | true wheel.
         | 
         | Is it even a wheel though?
        
           | dcrazy wrote:
           | It's not, it's a weird loop shape:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_1931_color_space
           | 
           | You can distort this shape into a circle but you lose the
           | geometric relationship between chromaticities--two points an
           | equal distance along the circumference of the color wheel
           | don't necessarily feel "as different" from each other.
        
             | Tuna-Fish wrote:
             | Even this is a simplification. The color space you see is
             | three-dimensional, because that is the physical reality of
             | how your eyes work. Any representation of the color space
             | in two dimensions involves choosing a projection that
             | distorts reality.
        
       | vladmk wrote:
       | Blue and red
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | One of the things I love about "Contact" is that the contact
       | mechanism chosen by the aliens was so close to what I guessed
       | aliens would use when I first learned about SETI.
       | 
       | Decimal is not universal. Not seconds, not meters, not sound
       | frequencies used for communication, not colors. Our sky isn't
       | blue, it's purple. Ask any bee and they'll tell you. But hydrogen
       | glows at very specific colors and that only changes if you are
       | moving fast enough.
       | 
       | The fundamental colors are the colors of the elements and, I
       | might argue, their oxides. As reflected by light or when they
       | incandesce. Gold. Rust. Arsenic green. Carbon black. Maybe the
       | emission bands of noble gases, though those are hardly every day
       | items.
       | 
       | (If I were a very clever alien though, and I discovered exotic
       | states of matter where the elements behaved differently, and I
       | only wanted to talk to other very clever aliens, I might use
       | those instead to talk over the heads of the younger or dumber
       | species, which is why I stopped contributing to SETI. We are
       | looking under the wrong rocks, IMO).
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | The Aurora colors are similarly universal.
         | 
         | The most common green color from excited nitrogen molecules
         | going back to normal by emitting 557.7 nanometer photons.
         | Oxygen makes 650 nm red, and the 427.8 nm blue is from nitrogen
         | ions.
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | It is easier to understand additive primaries through a
       | chromaticity diagram. You can form colors by mixing the
       | primaries, and the gamut is determined by the hull of the
       | primaries. Obviously you need at least three of them to enclose a
       | space.
       | 
       | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CIE1931xy_gamut_comp...
        
       | fanf2 wrote:
       | There's more to colour perception than the cone cells in the
       | retina. There's also the opponent process in the visual cortex,
       | which is where preschool primary colours come from.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opponent_process
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | FWIW, I thought the human eye is wired for Red Yellow Green Blue
        
       | DarkNova6 wrote:
       | As somebody living in central europe I have never in my life met
       | somebody who claimed that yellow is a primary color. The fact
       | that this could be a thing puzzles me beyond believe.
        
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