[HN Gopher] Circadian justice (2022)
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Circadian justice (2022)
Author : anigbrowl
Score : 53 points
Date : 2025-08-04 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (eprints.lse.ac.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (eprints.lse.ac.uk)
| piinbinary wrote:
| It's always seemed strange to me how the world agrees that it is
| fine to deprive someone of sleep if they happen to have a late
| sleep schedule (by e.g. starting school or work early).
| earnestinger wrote:
| To solve the issue we must answer several questions: What's the
| alternative? How much it would cost for whole class and members
| of classmate families?
| bsza wrote:
| I don't think anyone is conspiring against people who go to bed
| late - as an early waker I've often had noisy neighbors playing
| loud music late at night to contend with. Sometimes it was a
| larger event like a wedding reception, so calling the police
| wasn't exactly an option either (not that I'd ever done that).
|
| I would say the world simply agrees that things - whether
| schools, shifts or parties - should generally start _sometime_
| , and thus, by necessity, be less accommodating to some people
| than to others.
| just-working wrote:
| End DST!
| Telemakhos wrote:
| The author talks about certain groups, like offshored call center
| employees whose sleep schedule is shifted so that they can
| respond to needs of people in a different time zone... but
| wouldn't mobile phone usage have a more widespread (really
| pervasive) impact on sleep than irregular labor conditions for a
| few? There are studies showing significant associations of mobile
| phone use and poor sleep quality.[0] I don't get the feeling that
| a strong link between mobile phone use and poor sleep quality
| would appeal to the Journal of Political Philosophy, though.
|
| [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9707689/ in India,
| https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10....
| in UK
| anigbrowl wrote:
| I didn't see those studies cited but it does specifically
| mention the use of communication devices in the bedroom.
| taneq wrote:
| That second one is about 'smartphone addiction' not smartphone
| use. They don't even give the number of interviewees with smart
| phones, presumably because it's 100%.
| oytis wrote:
| The abstract reads like one of these fake articles people would
| trick journals on humanities to publish for fun
| lurk2 wrote:
| The argument he's making is coherent.
|
| 1) There are social, economic, and institutional norms
| surrounding sleep.
|
| 2) These norms are defined (or at least abided) by a majority
| group.
|
| 3) A minority of individuals can't abide by these norms either
| due to physiological differences or necessity.
|
| 4) Some people benefit from the work that this minority does,
| and the minority is not adequately compensated in comparison to
| the benefits they generate.
| Levitz wrote:
| Only because it uses words like "injustice" or "minorities".
|
| It was my first impression as well, but if I get over my gag
| reflex and actually read the lines carefully, it seems the
| "injustice" basically means that people with different
| schedules are treated unfairly by society and the "minorities"
| are precisely those with different schedules.
| oytis wrote:
| To me it's the sum of that and using a term from hard
| science. But the whole article doesn't indeed look like the
| author is trying to do fake science.
| delichon wrote:
| As a high school teacher with a multi ethnic classroom, I don't
| believe that scheduling is significantly a multi-cultural issue,
| but rather it's a specific school and community issue. For
| instance the time at which school starts is less downstream of
| puritan or protestant heritage, and more a matter of when the sun
| rises, and how far the busses have to travel. It emerges from
| lots of discussion with parents and staff.
|
| One thing that came out of those discussion is a four-day school
| week. That is popular with rural parents across cultures.
|
| The fact that some of our students come from a White or Hispanic
| or Native American heritage doesn't enter into the conversation,
| other than through their individual expressed preferences. Some
| cultures tend to speak more quietly and it's up to us to listen
| carefully. But we care about what those parents care about, not
| what our assumptions about their culture would lead us to guess
| they care about.
| fc417fc802 wrote:
| > more a matter of when the sun rises, and how far the busses
| have to travel
|
| In the suburbs I'm familiar with it was 100% a bus scheduling
| constraint. The high schools had to start at the crack of dawn
| because by the time the same fleet of busses made it through
| the middle schools and on to the elementaries it was getting
| pretty late.
|
| You could alternatively argue that it was a budget constraint
| (not enough money to 3x the bus fleet). Either way, it sure
| would have been nice to have robust city planning and public
| transit (and thus not need a large private bus fleet in the
| first place).
| lurk2 wrote:
| > The model of an eight-hour, unbroken sleep is a modern and
| western one, coinciding with the advent of electric lighting and
| the new routines of the workday, and achieved through class
| struggle in the emerging industrial workplace.
|
| The scholarship on this isn't good.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/zutvcs/comme...
| EA-3167 wrote:
| That tracks, it was a scandal-dogged publication that finally
| closed the year after this article was published, following the
| resignation of the editorial board.
| cwmoore wrote:
| This makes me so happy to see, for so many people, now and in the
| future.
| kennywinker wrote:
| > Given the difficulty and undesirability of restoring the
| practices that underpin those norms, the challenge is develop
| societies that no longer presuppose them.
|
| Is this a joke? Instead of idk improving labour laws... more
| worker power / unionization... let's just stop "oppressing"
| people with assumptions about their sleep schedule.
|
| They've hit on something real, but their solution is bonkers.
| steanne wrote:
| i'm not sure if this is still active looking at the 'in the
| press' section, but...
|
| https://www.b-society.org/
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