[HN Gopher] ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
        
       Author : LorenDB
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2025-08-02 12:40 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | mananaysiempre wrote:
       | > "It's very difficult to make a seven-row keyboard anymore
       | because of the aspect ratio of the display and the whole
       | arrangement of the pieces on the inside," he said. "It's a
       | decision that was not made lightly, however. I still like the
       | seven-row keyboard and, as aspect ratios change, and they
       | continue to change, I don't know. Maybe someday somebody will be
       | interested in it again."
       | 
       | The sad part is, the Framework 13 has a 3:2 display (with a
       | stupidly large bottom bezel, too, for good reasons), but still
       | uses a bog-standard modern laptop keyboard, including (unlike the
       | ThinkPad) the miserable half-height arrow keys. They did bother
       | to make a Copilot key, though. Just not a better keyboard.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | _> aspect ratio of the display_
         | 
         | Meanwhile, Apple sold 500+ million HiDPI 4:3 displays on iPads.
         | Do they have a supply chain lock on 4:3 screens?
        
           | mananaysiempre wrote:
           | Possibly. It's hugely expensive to order a completely custom
           | screen, and I know Framework waited for a long time for a
           | better 3:2 display to come onto the market after the initial
           | one--the current better panel is actually a compromise that
           | loses some pixels to rounded corners, which is fine but IMO
           | not "pay $270+tax+shipping for the upgrade" fine. Looking at
           | the specs of the screens, I'm almost sure that both the
           | original 2256x1504 one and the rounded-corners 2880x1920 one
           | are actually identical to the ones in the Microsoft Surface
           | (changed to a matte finish), so it's Microsoft footing the
           | custom-screen bill in this case. (I've heard we're not
           | getting small phones for a similar reason: you would need to
           | sell a lot of phones to justify a new screen, and all the
           | small-phone people will still begrudgingly buy a large one if
           | there are no small ones.)
        
             | cosmic_cheese wrote:
             | The big selling point of the higher tier FW13 screen option
             | is that it's conducive to 2x/200% UI scaling, which is
             | surprisingly rare in x86 laptops and is desirable under
             | Linux. Fractional scaling displays technically work but
             | have some notable quirks, where 2x scaling has worked
             | flawlessly for a long time.
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure it's just that 16:9 are so ubiquitous they're
           | by far the cheapest option.
           | 
           | Hell, Apple shipping millions of 4:3 should keep them
           | reasonable affordable. Same with 16:10 back when those were
           | still a thing (because of the notch Apple now uses 9:5.85
           | displays to retain a rectangular 16:10 fullscreen).
        
         | ginko wrote:
         | No one asked for a 16:9 thinkpad though.
        
           | FirmwareBurner wrote:
           | 16:9 displays were inevitable due to the economies of scale
           | form the TV industry. It's a shame they had to be 1366x768
           | for so long.
           | 
           | I remember many eons ago in the last 2000s to early 2010s
           | when I wanted a 16:10 monitor for my PC and the price
           | difference between 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 or between
           | 2560x1440 and 2560x1600 was massive, that it made no sense to
           | get the few extra vertical pixels of the 16:10 unless you
           | were loaded and money was no issue.
           | 
           | Even 4k 16:9 monitors a few years after launch, were cheaper
           | than 16:10 2560x1600 ones which have already been on the
           | market far longer. Crazy.
        
             | 4ad wrote:
             | I call BS on that, as Macbooks somehow always kept being
             | 16:10. In fact you could easily buy 16:10 panels, I know
             | because for many years I upgraded old 16:10 Thinkpads with
             | modern displays.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Nothing what I said is BS, the price differences on
               | external 16:10 monitors were significantly more expensive
               | than 16:9 ones. Look it up.
               | 
               |  _> old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays._
               | 
               | Yes you're talking about the really old 16:10 ones from
               | the mid to late 2000s, right before they switched to 16:9
               | cause they were cheaper to make due to the HD TV era. Add
               | then today they switched back to 16:10.
               | 
               | So no, it's no BS that scale allows for much cheaper
               | products, but Apple could stick to 16:10 since they never
               | catered to cheap and it would probably cost them more in
               | SW dev and tooling to reengineer their OS GUI and chassis
               | for 16:9 than to keep the production lines as is since
               | their product line back then had like 3 laptops total.
               | 
               | And maybe start with good faith before screaming BS. No
               | need to be rude just because people have different
               | opinions and experiences than you.
        
               | rs186 wrote:
               | And worth mentioning that Apple, unlike most PC
               | manufacturers, don't have 100 different models, with 20
               | different configurations of each model lying around.
               | Their 13" laptop has always had the same 2560x1600
               | resolution (until recently).
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | I did. I like having two documents side-by-side and I think
           | it works out well on a 1920x1080 (or 3820x2160) display.
        
         | wpm wrote:
         | The Framework keyboard is precisely why I haven't bought one.
         | The mixed height arrow key thing sucked on the touchbar MacBook
         | Pros, they suck on FWs too. The second the 13 gets a normal
         | inverted T, I buy one.
         | 
         | In the meantime, I'm waiting on a display converter board to
         | show up from China so I can install a modernish 1440p display
         | in my T420.
        
           | mananaysiempre wrote:
           | The "normal" inverted T is just another variation of the same
           | suckage as far as I'm concerned (slightly worse, if anything,
           | because I tend to wear away the paint--and eventually plastic
           | --on a tiny left-arrow key faster than on a normal one). Look
           | at the photos in TFA[1] for how good arrow keys are arranged.
           | 
           | [1] e.g. https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg (the
           | presence of a Break key almost makes me cry)
        
             | normie3000 wrote:
             | > https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg
             | 
             | Doesn't this photo show an inverted T?
        
               | notpushkin wrote:
               | I think a "normal" inverted T consists of half-height
               | keys (i.e. used on most current laptops). ThinkPads used
               | slightly higher arrow keys for a while, not sure about
               | now.
        
         | nrp wrote:
         | We have 1.5mm key travel, the keyboard is replaceable, and the
         | vast majority of our keyboard artwork options don't have a
         | Copilot logo.
        
           | mananaysiempre wrote:
           | All true. My previous laptop was a 2014 MBP, and the two
           | basically feel the same. I'd say the MBP's layout is
           | marginally worse because of the stupid power key and the
           | half-size left and right arrows, and of course the MBP's
           | construction makes your life hell if you spill liquid on the
           | keyboard and need to replace it. (Framework's prohibition on
           | freight forwarding makes my life difficult in the same
           | situation, but that's a me problem--I should have taken the
           | hint that I wasn't wanted when I was jumping through hoops to
           | buy it in the first place.)
           | 
           | It's not a bad keyboard. As far as laptops of the last decade
           | go, it's even a good one. But the up/down arrows sucked on
           | the MBP and they (though not left/right) suck on the FW13, I
           | expect(?) because a rectangular keyboard ends up cheaper than
           | one with protruding arrows.
           | 
           | Furthermore, my (grandparent) comment was about how vertical
           | shrinkage made the keyboard smaller but the FW13's taller
           | screen didn't restore the missing keys, and if half-size
           | up/down arrows just suck to use, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn hidden
           | behind Fn suck to a Pavlovian extent: I didn't realize how
           | much the MBP trained me out of using them before I had to use
           | an older ThinkPad for a bit that had them on separate keys. I
           | won't even mention Ctrl-Break except to look in its direction
           | wistfully.
           | 
           | Finally, the Copilot key is of course a distraction. I don't
           | know what it actually sends on those keyboards, but if I can
           | map that to Compose I couldn't care less about what's drawn
           | on it. It's just sad that, after everything, that distraction
           | is what ended up being the first substantial change to the
           | FW13's keyboard.
        
           | nh2 wrote:
           | Please just give us an option to buy a 7 row Thinkpad
           | keyboard with Trackpoint.
           | 
           | There are talented keyboard makers like Tex that already
           | pulled this off, making better hardware than Lenovo itself,
           | and you could instantaneously win most Thinkpad users over,
           | likely permanently.
        
         | spankibalt wrote:
         | Turn the ThinkPad X12 into a modernized _and_ more maintainable
         | HP ZBook x2 G4, complete with EMR stylus. Keep the size or make
         | it even smaller. Offer a bunch of first-rate keyboard options.
         | For both machine 's got the best form factor in that size-class
         | there is: _the detachable_ , the evolution of the convertible
         | of yesteryear. It's really not hard to figure out.
         | 
         | Whatcha get instead? Garbage like silly rolling-display
         | laptops. Or even worse, _The Homer_ of the laptop world: these
         | bizarre contraptions with two or three foldout displays. It 's
         | just missing a cup holder.
         | 
         | Framework borked it here as well. I just don't understand why
         | you waste time, energy and money on developing and building a
         | substandard machine (Framework 12) in an outdated form factor.
        
       | raffael_de wrote:
       | There is something about the classic Thinkpad design which
       | strikes me as more than just nostalgia. More like a Jungian
       | archetype. Honest, virtuous and sturdy. The ultimate example of
       | form follows function. The Stroke 8 of computers. A masculine
       | counterpart to the femininity of Apple products (nttawwi).
        
         | WillAdams wrote:
         | The irony is, back when Steve Jobs first came back to Apple
         | from NeXT, the Apple press on at least one occasion complained
         | of him using a ThinkPad, even stating it was running Windows
         | 95, w/o considering the NeXT compatibility list, that that
         | model was on it, and that it actually ran NeXTstep and
         | Lighthouse Design's Concurrence.app for presentations.
        
         | marttt wrote:
         | > More like a Jungian archetype. Honest, virtuous and sturdy.
         | 
         | +1, comparison of the day for sure!
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | The fibrous Trackpoint is still my absolute favourite.
       | 
       | For folks who want more in-depth backstory, going all the way
       | back to the beginning and the origin of the "ThinkPad" name see:
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/483933.ThinkPad
       | 
       | I really wish that there would be a true heir to the mantle, and
       | a return to some of the original ideas, esp. the early stylus
       | models and variants such as the TransNote --- if Lenovo would do
       | a version of their Yogabook 9i under the ThinkPad brand and use a
       | Wacom EMR stylus and put a Trackpoint on the keyboard it'd be an
       | instabuy for me --- as it is, I use a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro
       | 360 and only get a Trackpoint when using my docking setup w/
       | 
       | https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd026745-thinkpad...
       | 
       | (need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w/ USB-C)
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | > _(need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w /
         | USB-C)_
         | 
         | Once you find a TrackPoint keyboard model that you like, buy
         | spares, since you might have a hard time getting a good design
         | in the future.
         | 
         | For example, they went to a lot of trouble to develop
         | TrackPoint keyboard SK-8855, with community input, and then
         | discontinued it. To cries of anguish, scalpers and price-
         | gouging on last remaining stock, and, years later, people
         | selling filthy broken used ones for more than they cost new.
         | 
         | https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005137-thinkpad...
         | 
         | I don't think Lenovo has quite the same design sensibilities as
         | IBM ThinkPad team had:
         | 
         | * "You, the user, want to throw away IBM's famed keyboards, and
         | have a chiclet keyboard as the only option." (No.)
         | 
         | * "You want to remove the function keys that aren't necessary
         | for Twitter." (No.)
         | 
         | * "You want to remove the tactile cues from TrackPoint buttons,
         | so it looks more sleek, for your TikTok scrolling." (No. This
         | is not a mindless "content consumer" device. "Think" is right
         | there, in the name.)
         | 
         | * "You want to remove the TrackPoint buttons altogether, from a
         | workstation laptop, so you can get RSI from clicking with your
         | thumb on the touchpad below instead." (No, and now I think you
         | are just trying to sabotage all the smart people who were using
         | ThinkPads before.)
         | 
         | I'm still surprised that IBM was even allowed by the US gov't
         | to sell ThinkPad to China. It was beloved fleet tech of US big
         | business and government, as well beloved by techies
         | ("innovators"). And maybe also a source of technology
         | excellence pride, like fewer companies are now. Imagine the
         | iPhone business being sold to China. Or Cisco being sold.
        
           | Uvix wrote:
           | The other option wasn't IBM keeping the business, it was IBM
           | discontinuing it entirely.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | All I need is the trackpoint, I would never consider buying a
       | laptop without one.
        
       | michalpleban wrote:
       | I have never used the butterfly keyboard 700C (my first ThinkPad
       | was the 365X) but I immediately fell in love with the trackpoint
       | since day one. I will never go back to a mouse. Fortunately you
       | can buy USB keyboards with trackpoints so that's what I'm using
       | for my desktop. It's also kinda funny when other people ask me to
       | use my computer, and then hunt around my desk for the mouse ;)
        
       | p_ing wrote:
       | Is anyone aware of a similar type of article for the ThinkPad
       | Power 800 series?
       | 
       | I know the trackpoint was popular but I could never get used to
       | it; the pressure I felt I needed to apply eventually hurt my
       | fingertip.
        
       | mxuribe wrote:
       | Man, i love me some Thinkpad laptops!
       | 
       | For me, its the overall sturdiness, the historic ability to more
       | easily swap out components, and the keys and keyboard combo. I
       | haven't had so many Thinkpads as others have had, but of the few
       | i have owned, i think so far the T420 from i think circa 2011 (?)
       | seemed to have the best balance of sturdy boxy goodness and
       | wonderful keys and keyboard. While i would not say that i am a
       | keyboard snob, i can certainly appreciate differences between the
       | different types of keyboards like chiclets, or mechanical
       | dedicated keyboards, etc. I'm sure beyond functional aspects,
       | there is no doubt a nostalgia that i feel for these machines that
       | is solely based on emotion...but who cares, since i always get
       | more value than whatever i paid for them!
       | 
       | On another aspect to this, it feels like Framework laptops has a
       | chance to perhaps capture at least some of the positive sentiment
       | that folks have/had for Thinkpads. I mean, sure, the swap-ability
       | of the components is the most obvious comparison...but, i think
       | Framework has also fostered a following by a community, that, if
       | they play their cards right - and produce good, solid products -
       | can turn into a successor to Thinkpads. I mean, obviously
       | thinkpads are still here and all...but the folks at Framework
       | have a big chance here, and i welcome the competition (since we
       | all win as consumer if there is good, solid choices in the
       | marketplace). Let's hope both Thinkpads and Framework (and any
       | other competitors) keep moving the needle forward to empower
       | users with more options for good solid design, easy/self-repair,
       | component swap-ability, sturdy/dependable hardware, and fair
       | pricing!
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | > Hill said that the X300 is the favorite ThinkPad he worked on,
       | not only because of its thinness, but also because it proved
       | that, under Lenovo, he could build an even better product than he
       | had for IBM.
       | 
       | > "There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to
       | destroy ThinkPad, and it was going to become cheerful and ruin it
       | and all this kind of stuff," he said.
       | 
       | 'As good' can mean different things.
       | 
       | My first two laptops were IBM Thinkpads. In 2000 or so, I was
       | carrying one in my hands down some concrete stairs. I tripped,
       | bounced the laptop down 2-3 stairs, then landed on my knee on top
       | of it. No visible marks, and it booted right up and worked
       | flawlessly for years afterward. This was with a platter hard
       | drive, too. I don't remember the X300, but the current Lenovo
       | Thinkpads don't strike me as being quite as robust as the tanks
       | they used to make.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | The forced redesign story was the icing on the cake. You never
       | redesign a best selling item. If you try, the changes will be
       | made to you.
        
       | garciansmith wrote:
       | I miss the ThinkLight (and the dual-light idea he had sounds
       | great). Useful when working in a dark environment to look at
       | papers and whatnot, or just to provide a nice amount of ambient
       | light to smooth out the contrast between the screen itself and
       | your surroundings. Most modern laptops have backlit keys, but
       | those don't help in those cases; they are pretty much only useful
       | for people who can't touch type.
        
         | bobson381 wrote:
         | I actually used to work at a place that had regular power
         | outages because it was remote and ran on hydropower. We had a
         | bunch of old think pads with the think light at the time that
         | were standard staff issue, and they were awesome for working on
         | any technology or system stuff when power was out but wireless
         | was on with the UPSs. Such a cool feature and I do wish they
         | still had it. Along with the locking lids, the 430 and 530s
         | were tanklike.
        
         | marttt wrote:
         | Yeah, it has got me "in the zone" for writing many times. On a
         | side note, I also like the "click" when I close the lid on my
         | T42. Mentally balancing for sure :).
         | 
         | I bought a used P50 for our son, and while it's allright (even
         | the keyboard -- although it doesn't give that _particular_ feel
         | of the T4x era keyboards), it lacks both of those extra-
         | relevant features. No click on closing, and a mere backlit
         | keyboard. But, that 's life!
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Exactly - the light was far more useful than just for
         | illuminating the keyboard
        
       | Izkata wrote:
       | > However, at this point, the Soft Dome design has won out with a
       | rather large, flat top that's filled with dots for texture and an
       | easy grip.
       | 
       | I've only ever used the original eraser head and the current soft
       | dome, and remember the original being nice because it was tall
       | enough to tilt my finger slightly and push, while the current one
       | is annoying to use because they're too short to do that and my
       | fingers get almost no grip on them and slip around.
        
         | esseph wrote:
         | You can order packs of different shapes and sizes on Amazon
        
       | tonydav wrote:
       | I can't have a laptop without the trackpoint. But why can't my
       | fulloption P16 gen2 have a working suspend sleep S3?
       | 
       | It's a furnace in my backpack.
       | 
       | Also why lose the RJ45?
       | 
       | Sadly there is no better laptop.. - ecc - trackpoint +3buttons,
       | could be without touchpad - camera shutter privacy - smartcard
       | reader - 2 nvme (<3 zfs mirror) - big battery
       | 
       | <3 NixOS
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | A general takeaway from this is that there were a number of
       | innovations that made sense at the time, but as the landscape
       | changed, they lost their utility. The butterfly keyboard wasn't
       | needed once screens got larger. The switch to widescreen mean the
       | 7th row of keys competed with the trackpad for real estate. The
       | lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter. Top-of-
       | screen keyboard lighting got replaced by backlighting.
       | 
       | Don't get married to once-smart ideas that no longer make sense.
       | 
       | Also surprised there was no mention of docking HDD heads when the
       | in-device accelerometer (I think this even predates the Wii and
       | iPhone) detects a drop or the keyboard that had drain holes that
       | bypass the much more expensive motherboard, protecting it from
       | spills.
       | 
       | And I'm glad there was no mention of the adaptive keyboard
       | (touchscreen F keys) that Apple also tried and failed at making a
       | thing.
        
         | ktallett wrote:
         | I question why the butterfly keyboard wouldn't be needed once
         | screens were larger. I use a MNT Reform and a mechanical
         | keyboard is still vastly superior.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | You may be thinking of butterfly _keyboard switches_ , which
           | aren't what is being discussed here. The Thinkpad "butterfly
           | keyboard" was a design which moved pieces of the keyboard
           | around to make a keyboard wider than the laptop pop out when
           | the laptop was opened. This video has a demonstration:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrpRgKS2x4
           | 
           | The purpose of this design was to allow a small laptop, with
           | a small screen, to have a near full-size keyboard. Once
           | larger screens forced laptops to become larger as well, this
           | design was no longer needed.
        
             | ktallett wrote:
             | Ah yes! My mistake. I didn't realise that was what that was
             | called. I did have one of those for a little while as a lab
             | computer as it beat the size requirements allowed into the
             | lab. I mean it was old for it's time when I used it but
             | plugged in, it would do text files and csv.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | I'd take a Thinkpad without a trackpad all together - I always
         | disable mine in the bios anyways.
         | 
         | Still also prefer thinklight to backlit keyboards but that's
         | less of a necessary
        
       | rs186 wrote:
       | Interesting that we have tons of interviews, podcasts and books
       | about how Apple design their hardware and software, but barely
       | anything when it comes to other PCs or OSes. I have read some
       | books and they are disappointing.
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | > There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to
       | destroy ThinkPad
       | 
       | It's been long enough to say that Lenovo really did right by the
       | Thinkpad name. I recently switched from an X1 Carbon to a Macbook
       | Pro because of Windows issues, and I miss the Thinkpad is built
       | and feels. The case isn't as sharp, I prefer the trackpoint,
       | plastic is weirdly more durable because it can flex, and all the
       | parts are replaceable.
        
       | scrlk wrote:
       | > When designing the 25th anniversary ThinkPad, which came out in
       | 2017, Hill brought back the ThinkLight, but he actually wanted to
       | have - for the first time - two LEDs instead of one. The dual
       | lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even better
       | illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too costly to
       | make it into the final product.
       | 
       | Dual ThinkLights appeared on two models - W700 & W701:
       | https://youtu.be/LSHP7VRs0bI?t=658
       | 
       | There was also a dual screen variant, which had a secondary
       | screen that popped out to the right of the primary screen:
       | https://youtu.be/mzhZH9LK1ac?t=26
        
         | ktallett wrote:
         | Too costly to have two LEDs? I question if that is the case.
        
           | scrlk wrote:
           | The 25th Anniversary ThinkPad was a modified T470. I assume
           | that the cost issues were related to a requirement to
           | minimise the number of case modifications required from the
           | stock T470. Incorporating a ThinkLight would require a
           | redesigned display lid.
        
       | drooopy wrote:
       | I love how he also doesn't care about the X9.
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | I still have my 2005 ThinkPad X41 which has both a TrackPoint and
       | a ThinkLight. The laptop has a dead battery, but works as good as
       | new when plugged in.
        
         | marttt wrote:
         | On my trusty T42 (bought ~10 years ago for about 30 euros) the
         | GPU finally died last winter (heavy, unreadable screen flicker
         | during every slightly more intensive task). It has an IPS panel
         | which itself still seems to be in order, though. Luckily, I
         | accidentally saw a similar one (no IPS, though) for 26 euros,
         | so I'm rocking again.
         | 
         | Those 4:3 screens and T4x series keyboards are really hard to
         | let go, and if your activities allow for more text-oriented
         | operating systems (I installed 9front on mine, but used to be a
         | dedicated Tinycore Linux user, and the T42 is also nice with
         | the various open source DOSes we have these days), they're
         | still perfectly capable machines for 90% of relevant tasks. CF
         | cards make very nice poor man's SSDs, so the machine is also
         | very quiet with this setup, so far the fan rarely turns on.
         | 
         | As for my previous T42, I think I really squeezed a lot out of
         | it, including using it to produce (and, on a few occasions,
         | record live) 1-hour radio shows for my country's public
         | broadcasting (honored to contribute to a "landmark" series
         | where high production quality is a must). It was always fun to
         | think that here I am, working on a 30EUR 15-year-old machine,
         | whereas other guys are doing their exact same montages on
         | 2000EUR Macbooks -- and regarding the resulting production, the
         | radio listener will notice no difference whatsoever. :)
         | 
         | Obviously, though, this is a geek thing, those Macs probably do
         | make a lot of sense for serious audio production.
         | 
         | It's completely crazy, though, how you can get a more or less
         | perfectly working (!) Thinkpad for 25-30 euros, whereas that
         | same brand new machine cost something like 2k in 2007.
        
           | jtwaleson wrote:
           | I believe you can reflow the soldering on the GPU on the T42
           | by heating it up, this was a common problem.
        
       | penguin_booze wrote:
       | One gripe I have with Lenovo keyboards is that the Fn key is at
       | the left-most edge of the bottom row. Per my muscle memory, it's
       | the Control key that ought to be there, not Fn.
        
         | normie3000 wrote:
         | This can be switched in BIOS.
        
         | scrlk wrote:
         | Starting in 2024, Lenovo adopted the 'conventional'
         | control/function key layout for ThinkPads.
        
           | jtwaleson wrote:
           | The keys are identical though, so if you're careful you can
           | swap the physical ones back to the proper way ;)
        
         | dralley wrote:
         | They're trying to ape the Apple layout. I agree, it's annoying.
        
       | elric wrote:
       | I think optimising for thinness is a stupid goal. I get wanting
       | to reduce _weight_ , but volume and mass are two different
       | metrics. Thicker laptops can have better cooling, bigger
       | batteries, easier maintenance, a bloody ethernet port, and
       | probably better keyboards.
       | 
       | For some reason Lenovo has made the ThinkPad keyboard worse with
       | every new generation. They're still better than other laptop
       | keyboards, but my goodness the margin is shrinking.
       | 
       | And while David Hill may claim that Lenovo TPs are as good as (or
       | better than) IBM's, the number of repairs mine have had tell a
       | different story. Since the x230, every single ThinkPad I've owned
       | had to have its mainboard replaced. Sometimes even twice.
        
         | somanyphotons wrote:
         | Thickness does change the ergonomics when typing
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | When something is large and light, the consumer view is that it
         | is cheaply made. That's a problem when trying to sell an
         | expensive product.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | I believe that impression comes from the laptop feeling
           | "hollow" more than it does from it being light.
           | 
           | This could probably be engineered around by doing things like
           | holding the battery up against the laptop's palm rest with a
           | rim of TPU or similar between the battery and the case to
           | deaden vibrations and make it feel more "solid".
        
             | al_borland wrote:
             | Haven't some products been found to have weights inside
             | just to make them feel more premium?
        
               | cosmic_cheese wrote:
               | In cases where there's no component that would naturally
               | add weight in the right place, yes.
        
       | Elfener wrote:
       | The trackpoint and the nice keys are one thing, but what I really
       | want all laptops to have is dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdn keys and
       | in a normal-looking layout (as in 7-row or as in a full
       | keyboard).
       | 
       | I find it weird that even framework has gone with a keyboard
       | where a bunch of keys are missing.
       | 
       | (Sent from my Thinkpad T410)
        
       | boomskats wrote:
       | I'm just gonna leave this here
       | 
       | https://www.tpart.net/about-x210ai/
        
       | bArray wrote:
       | > However, Hill said, he thought about putting a butterfly
       | keyboard on a netbook when they were a viable product category in
       | the late aughts.
       | 
       | I _really_ want to see sub-11 " notebooks again. They were super
       | cool travel laptops.
       | 
       | > The dual lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even
       | better illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too
       | costly to make it into the final product.
       | 
       | Ridiculous. Function must be allowed to win sometimes.
        
         | goosedragons wrote:
         | GPD has some. Particularly the GPD Pocket 4. 8.8" Notebook with
         | a AMD HX 370 processor and up to 64GB RAM. Can even work as a
         | KVM.
        
       | spankibalt wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/rJprW
        
       | yc-kraln wrote:
       | Definitely had fun as I was scrolling the article with a
       | Trackpoint using the scrolling button. 100% my preferred way to
       | laptop.
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | In England the nub was referred to as the nipple.
       | 
       | I had a series of think pads. I think the last one was a t61p
       | running Lennox and it was truly glorious. I can't remember if it
       | was that model or an earlier one which had a battery known as the
       | tumor which stuck out the back. You could hibernate the laptop
       | and swap in another battery and turn the laptop back on and keep
       | working without rebooting.
       | 
       | Everything since then for me has been MacBooks or Dell laptops.
       | Neither brings me as much joy.
        
       | ofalkaed wrote:
       | I wish lenovo would make a modern 700c, nice and thin, no
       | trackpad, 11" screen and three mouse buttons. Would be the ideal
       | portable for me.
        
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