[HN Gopher] Our Farewell from Google Play
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Our Farewell from Google Play
        
       Author : shakna
       Score  : 213 points
       Date   : 2025-08-01 09:08 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (secuso.aifb.kit.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (secuso.aifb.kit.edu)
        
       | a2128 wrote:
       | From a cursory glance, their apps seem to be of the kind that
       | don't need continuous updates and can be considered complete.
       | Self-contained, offline software that serves a specific purpose:
       | https://search.f-droid.org/?q=SECUSO&lang=en
       | 
       | Unfortunately, Google no longer recognizes this as a valid
       | development strategy. If you want to publish on Google Play, you
       | need to continuously release updates targeting an SDK released
       | within the past year[0]. If you don't, they will send you
       | constant warnings about how your app is violating their policies,
       | they might derank your app, and eventually they'll stop making
       | your app available to new users.
       | 
       | Updating the SDK is not that simple and it often introduces new
       | bugs if you don't read through the full changelog and test
       | thoroughly. I have 3 apps and it already feels like I spend too
       | much time each year updating SDK, I can't imagine updating 30.
       | 
       | They talk about how this somehow improves security and enhances
       | user experience, meanwhile this policy worsens user experience by
       | pushing people towards ad-filled apps that have the resources and
       | courage to release needless updates, and they still publish
       | spyware on their store.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://developer.android.com/google/play/requirements/targe...
        
         | owebmaster wrote:
         | I hope this push from Google (and also from Apple) forces us,
         | the developers, to create and most important USE the
         | alternatives.
        
           | cnst wrote:
           | The F-Droid app store app is usually already the first app I
           | ever install on any Android device:
           | 
           | https://f-droid.org/
           | 
           | The second app is often the Aurora Store app store app, from
           | within the F-Droid app, which then lets you install Google
           | Play apps without having to have a Google Account:
           | 
           | https://f-droid.org/packages/com.aurora.store/
           | 
           | With these two apps installed first, on any Android device,
           | whether locked or not, without any need for any computer or
           | any other device, without having to type-in any Google
           | Account details, you can then do pretty much whatever you
           | require on the device, including installing bank apps,
           | Amazon, Amazon Music, Audible, Prime Video, etc.
           | 
           | Sadly, iOS has no alternatives like this. Apple proudly
           | reports terminating 128,961,839 customer accounts in 2024
           | (yes, Apple has terminated 129 million customer accounts in
           | just one year), and they do NOT allow using an iOS device
           | without an Apple customer account:
           | 
           | https://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/docs/2024-App-
           | Sto...
        
             | butshouldyou wrote:
             | How do you even get to the point of installing F-Droid
             | without first setting up Android, which, in my experience,
             | requires a valid Google login.
             | 
             | When I set up my Android device, there wasn't an option to
             | set it up without a Google Account.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | That's not normal, that will probably be the vendor skin
               | you use enforcing that. Maybe samsung, as they tend to
               | try and be apple at home.
        
               | hadrien01 wrote:
               | I have a Samsung phone and I was never forced to use a
               | Google account.
        
               | cnst wrote:
               | There's always a "later" or equivalent button in all of
               | these setups, sometimes it does have a few prompts.
               | 
               | I personally have iPhone, Google Pixel, OnePlus, Motorola
               | and Samsung devices, without any accounts on them. The
               | iPhones are very limited without an account, obviously,
               | but I never feel that way on Android.
               | 
               | All that I did to set them up, is click on the screen a
               | few times, no extra tools or anything. Then just go into
               | the browser, and follow the instructions for F-Droid
               | installation; which can be done entirely on the phone,
               | without a computer or any other phone, or any
               | username/password.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Whenever I buy a new Android device I take the
               | opportunity to pretend I'm a grandma getting her first
               | piece of technology and create a brand new Google
               | account, since it's one of the only signup pathways that
               | doesn't require some kind of identity verification.
        
               | cnst wrote:
               | That's a nice trick to get a fresh Google Account without
               | any verifications!
               | 
               | But why would you need so many Google accounts? I think
               | at one point it may simply become cumbersome to keep
               | track of all the accounts, so, using an account-less
               | Aurora Store seems like a very easy pathway to take.
               | 
               | I honestly never feel disadvantaged in any way by not
               | having a Google Account on my Android. Aurora Store
               | works, Google Maps works, banking and streaming works,
               | everything just works.
        
             | swiftcoder wrote:
             | > Top 10 guidelines or DPLA provisions cited for removal >
             | 1. Guideline 4.0 -- Design: 42,2527
             | 
             | Does that line item mean that Apple is rejecting the
             | largest body of apps for not meeting the design guidelines?
             | Man... if I had a penny for every app still on the App
             | Store that blatantly disregards the human interface
             | guidelines...
        
             | willhslade wrote:
             | Honestly, thank you for this. I'm going to do this on an
             | Amazon Fire Tablet I have lying around.
        
         | zihotki wrote:
         | I also share this resentment. It became very hard to have a
         | niche app for a family or a small circle. Not like it was easy
         | before, but amount of time one needs to invest to keep it up to
         | date with requirements is not sustainable. Web apps are also a
         | hard thing once you consider hosting and storage expenses.
        
           | nolist_policy wrote:
           | I think both of you and TFA misunderstand what the
           | targetSdkVersion is.
           | 
           | If your app barely uses any permissions (like TFA's apps),
           | you just need to update the targetSdkVersion in the manifest
           | once per year and push the update. That's it. You're not
           | updating SDKs or compiling against a newer SDK or anything.
        
             | ploxiln wrote:
             | You do need a newer SDK to update the target-sdk-version
             | though. And you may find that libraries you used are not
             | compatible, unless you update them, and updating them may
             | break things. Maybe for a minimal app in pure java or
             | kotlin this won't be a problem.
             | 
             | There was an open-source app that hasn't been updated in a
             | few years that was delisted from the store. I decided to
             | try my hand at recompiling to target latest required sdk
             | "target" or whatever. It used Xamarin / C# and some
             | additional libraries. It does not talk to the internet,
             | it's just a minimal remote-control and data-logger for a
             | bluetooth multimeter. If you can find a copy of the last
             | APK published and sideload it, it works. But if you try to
             | update the SDK so you can target the required SDK version
             | for the Play Store, compile fails, misc cryptic errors due
             | to libraries. Updating libraries was tricky for me because
             | while I'm quite familiar with C, C++, Python, Go (etc), I'm
             | not at all familiar with Android, Java, Kotlin, nor C#,
             | visual-studio, etc. After a few days of struggle I managed
             | to update libraries and fix the build, but the app's layout
             | was totally broken, only one button appears (and again I'm
             | not familiar with any of this stuff).
             | 
             | This app really didn't need any updates. It's a < 20MB app
             | to control a local device, and it still works. At least you
             | can still side-load it. Sheesh.
        
               | nolist_policy wrote:
               | > You do need a newer SDK to update the target-sdk-
               | version though.
               | 
               | No you don't.
               | 
               | You probably should just use an older version of Android
               | Studio for your case which supports the original
               | compileSdkVersion from the original gradle build. Then
               | update the targetSdkVersion in the manifest and that's
               | it.
        
               | sltkr wrote:
               | While you are _technically_ correct (the best kind of
               | correct), official guidance is to use support libraries
               | that are at least as new as the targetSdkLevel, so if you
               | follow that recommendation you still have to update.
               | 
               | Also, I try to at least do the bare minimum level of
               | testing the app still works after rebuilding by launching
               | the app in the emulator once (I don't usually have a
               | phone that runs the newest API level), which means
               | downloading at least a new emulator image.
               | 
               | In practice it's just easier to update the entire
               | platform.
        
             | a2128 wrote:
             | It's not that simple. If it were that simple Android Studio
             | wouldn't show you a big red error when you do that and they
             | wouldn't have built an entire assistant for the purpose of
             | incrementing a number[0]. The reason is that bumping the
             | targetSdkVersion changes various behavior, sometimes in a
             | breaking manner. A good recent example is that 34 -> 35
             | will force edgeToEdge rendering on all activities unless
             | you opt-out per-window (and 35 -> 36 removes the opt-out).
             | So simply doing what you said would probably lead to UI
             | elements appearing behind the nav/status bars and the app
             | being unusable (on API 35+ devices, from my understanding).
             | 
             | [0] https://developer.android.com/build/sdk-upgrade-
             | assistant
        
           | Zak wrote:
           | If you have an app for a small restricted audience, it
           | shouldn't need to meet Play Store requirements, just basic
           | Android ones.
        
         | cnst wrote:
         | > "Additionally, the app prevents devices from taking
         | screenshots."
         | 
         | Why do the "security" apps ALWAYS have to have this anti-
         | feature? It's especially annoying when employed by the banking
         | apps.
         | 
         | Famously, Schwab had some issues where it didn't properly keep
         | track of orders during highest loads (people ending up selling
         | more shares than they had even in IRA accounts), yet
         | conveniently they prevent users from taking screenshots of
         | their app, so you wouldn't be able to prove that you did cancel
         | or replace the order and did receive the cancel confirmation,
         | before it executed anyways. Of course, if it's an IRA account,
         | selling more shares than you own, is clearly Schwab's bug, but
         | not being able to keep these things locally, is one of the
         | biggest anti-features of modern apps.
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | That's a very shallow protection. Even if one has no other
           | camera (phone, table, a real camera) there are always friends
           | and relatives that can help and take a picture of the screen.
           | Furthermore a picture of the screen and the phone around it
           | has a more real feel than a screenshot that could be
           | photoshopped.
        
             | cnst wrote:
             | A screenshot develops evidence of something happening or
             | not happening according to the person who took the
             | screenshot.
             | 
             | If you start claiming that it can be photoshopped, well,
             | what prevents anyone from photoshopping a real camera shot?
             | Or photoshopping a screenshot, and then taking a "real"
             | shot with a camera? With AI, you can now even do this with
             | video, too.
             | 
             | For practical purposes, your suggestion is simply
             | unrealistic. It's unrealistic to be using a second phone to
             | be taking random confirmations from your main phone, and
             | it's even more unrealistic if you're doing trading where
             | every second counts, and where the whole reason that Schwab
             | cannot execute properly, is because orders are placed and
             | cancelled than once. It's even yet more unrealistic because
             | of focus and angle issues, and reduced precision, and
             | increased file size etc.
             | 
             | BTW, I have personally encountered this consistency bug at
             | Schwab Brokerage. I wasn't even using Schwab's app,
             | precisely because it doesn't let you take screenshots. In
             | my case, the loss was not major, and not worth pursuing.
             | 
             | But other people reported that their IRA accounts sold
             | shares short as a result of this consistency issue, which
             | is kind of a problem for everybody when you cannot buy it
             | back if it has 10x'ed since the sale like GME once had, and
             | cannot even add any more money even if you have it, because
             | it's a tax-advantaged account with limits on how much you
             | can add each year.
        
           | smallerfish wrote:
           | I've gone off Schwab big time over the past year.
           | 
           | a) I cancelled my "intelligent advisor" accounts (which was a
           | pain to do by itself) and had the money xferred back into
           | regular IRA accounts. After this was complete, I was no
           | longer able to see any trade history for the past 12 years of
           | those Intelligent Advisor accounts, *even though they were
           | ostensibly backed by regular Schwab IRAs*, and my historical
           | "wealth" tracking in Schwab made it look like I'd simply
           | never had the $NNN^n that was in those accounts for that
           | period of time, or in other words as if I'd added $NNN^n to
           | my accounts on the day of the transfer. Definitely some
           | hackery there. I had one Schwab rep who acknowledged this as
           | a (rather severe) problem, but the other 3 I spoke to did not
           | even understand why it was an issue.
           | 
           | b) For an example of their approach to data in general, take
           | a look at their historical chart for the WEED ETF around the
           | time of the reverse split in 2023, and compare it to how WEED
           | themselves chart it, and how Fidelity charts it. Schwab's
           | presentation of the price history isn't justifiable, and
           | essentially omits information.
           | (https://www.schwab.com/research/etfs/quotes/summary/weed,
           | https://www.roundhillinvestments.com/etf/weed/, https://digit
           | al.fidelity.com/prgw/digital/research/quote/das...). Their
           | support brushed this off.
        
           | JimDabell wrote:
           | > Why do the "security" apps ALWAYS have to have this anti-
           | feature?
           | 
           | Every pen test I've seen for mobile apps has always had this
           | as an item, even when it's completely unjustified for the
           | type of app. It's on their checklist and they will always
           | flag it to show they are doing their job. If you don't have
           | anybody in the team who is willing and able to say no to a
           | pen tester on a security matter, this kind of thing will
           | happen.
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | Agreed.
             | 
             | I'm the person who enjoys saying no to this kind of thing.
             | Also, we will not disable copy and paste for password
             | fields, and we will not make our users rotate their
             | passwords every 11 days ("because we align with NIST
             | guidelines which say not to do that").
        
             | cnst wrote:
             | I simply delete and rate 1* any app that doesn't work,
             | including Schwab.
             | 
             | Schwab's mobile website is actually decent, and, basically,
             | works better than their app in every way.
             | 
             | I'm honestly disappointed Android doesn't do something
             | about these broken apps that don't let me keep records of
             | my own stuff.
             | 
             | It should not be possible for an app to prevent screenshot
             | use 100% of the time.
             | 
             | There should also be a 180deg on the checklists to flag any
             | app that uses disable-screenshot 100% of the time, similar
             | to how we went from requiring people to change passwords
             | every 14 days, to removing the mandatory-password-change
             | policy in its entirety.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | This is exactly how I recognise bad "pentest" firms and
             | tell all my friends and clients the same. If the pentest
             | contains report any mention of [screenshot, obfuscation,
             | root detection, attestation] it's bullshit and you should
             | demand your money back (you won't get it, but still, you
             | should demand it) and tell everyone in your circle to not
             | give another cent to them.
        
           | gspencley wrote:
           | At a previous employer of mine, it was common to share dev
           | accounts for certain things. These were not security
           | sensitive things. They were there purely for dev purposes and
           | these were things like anayltics tools and stuff that the
           | software being built had to integrate with, so they were
           | basically development sandboxes.
           | 
           | Many of these tools had MFA enabled and so it was common to
           | share MFA codes on Slack because the MFA code was sent to an
           | email address that only one person had access to.
           | 
           | One lunch and learn a group of developers shared how they
           | solved this problem by having the MFA codes pushed to a
           | device that was effectively an on-prem server / dev box that
           | they installed custom built software on to take a screenshot
           | of the MFA code and broadcast it on the relevant Slack
           | channel.
           | 
           | The main point of the lunch and learn, however, wasn't so
           | much to share the tool that they had built, but to talk about
           | how they got around the Mac OS security protections that are
           | there to prevent this sort of thing.
           | 
           | My first thought was "we've just written malware."
           | 
           | I'm specifically responding to this sentence of yours:
           | 
           | > It's especially annoying when employed by the banking apps.
           | 
           | After my experience with that MFA code sniffer ... I know
           | exactly why banking apps and other privacy/security-centred
           | apps prevent taking screenshots :)
        
             | liendolucas wrote:
             | Yes, but that can be simply solved by the banking app to
             | re-ask for the PIN instead of directly declining to take
             | the screenshot.
             | 
             | If it asks me again my PIN when I'm about to hit "transfer"
             | when sending money, there should be no problem in doing the
             | same for the screenshot.
             | 
             | Instead at least my banking app forces me to navigate
             | through an unfamiliar menu and donwload a PDF. A waste of
             | time compared to taking a screenshot.
        
               | cnst wrote:
               | Some do that, and it's super annoying. I take a
               | screenshot, and then silently my login doesn't work, with
               | a weird error returned instead. Get another PIN, type it
               | in, take a screenshot before submit, again get a
               | nondescript error that makes no sense.
               | 
               | Don't they star the PIN in any case?
               | 
               | Why exactly is me taking a screenshot of my signup
               | process for my records suddenly a disqualifier for
               | signing up?
               | 
               | If all these companies never lied to us about the terms
               | of the deals we're signing up for, needing proof of what
               | actually happened, we'd never be taking these
               | screenshots.
               | 
               | Honestly, this whole "security" theatre ought to be
               | investigated by the consumer protection agencies, and any
               | app that prevents screenshots being taken, or gives these
               | nondescript errors when someone takes it and is
               | subsequently unable to sign-in, should be fined for their
               | anti-consumer behaviours.
        
             | cnst wrote:
             | I fail to see how your conclusion follows from the premise.
             | 
             | Banking apps in the US don't even show any PINs for 2FA,
             | so, why exactly is Schwab doing that again?
             | 
             | BTW, Google Wallet does let you take screenshots of all the
             | views except for just one or two views where you enter card
             | number, billing and card security code. Honestly, even that
             | is an overreach; it's not like I can't use the camera to
             | take a photo of my credit card with CVV in view, so, why
             | should the camera function of any app prevent that again?
             | Google never blocks screenshots of any transactions, last-4
             | of any card, or any other screens. If they ever did, I'd be
             | far less happy with them, and would go out of my way to
             | find an alternative contactless provider. Wells Fargo used
             | to provide contactless on Android in their app for their
             | own cards, but, probably thanks to Apple, this feature was
             | removed for feature parity with iOS.
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | >why should the camera function of any app prevent that
               | again?
               | 
               | Because you taking a photo of it with a physical camera
               | is intentional. Another app on the device screen
               | recording that view may not be intentional by the user.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | > Another app on the device screen recording that view
               | may not be intentional by the user.
               | 
               | Given how many permission prompts you have to go through
               | to let any app see your screen, I feel to see how it
               | would be unintentional.
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | Not more then for any other app. Android design is such
               | that it intentionally trains users to accept everything.
        
               | cnst wrote:
               | Surely you're talking about Apple's design, no?
               | 
               | With Android, I routinely prohibit random app permissions
               | from many apps, and everything still works just fine.
               | 
               | Does Apple even let you have as fine of a control of
               | permissions as you can have on Android?
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | Yes, more than anything else:
               | https://github.com/cvzi/ScreenshotTile?tab=readme-ov-
               | file#te... Depending on method and version of Android,
               | you have to jump through ridiculous steps to allow
               | screenshots.
        
         | rpdillon wrote:
         | I've attempted to make this point to proponents of the walled
         | gardens as a real benefit they are losing. There are app
         | developers that just want to make useful stuff and share it.
         | But Play (and the App Store) are completely designed around
         | developers that are trying to make a living there (because
         | that's how Google/Apple make money off the store). As such, the
         | stores are quite hostile to community built software that
         | changes rarely. This is a real loss, as I think that software
         | is often the best available for a given purpose due to
         | simplicity, privacy, and longevity.
         | 
         | So glad I have F-Droid!
        
           | protimewaster wrote:
           | I've had some thoughts in a similar vein, but I was thinking
           | from a privacy perspective. The Google and Apple arguments
           | for the walled gardens basically boil down to "You can't
           | trust other stores to protect your privacy and security", but
           | the obvious counter-argument to that is that other stores may
           | actually be able to focus _more_ on privacy and security than
           | the walled gardens do.
           | 
           | Apple and Google inevitably have limited privacy protections,
           | because they'd probably run off Meta and a bunch of other
           | really popular / in-demand apps and cut into their own
           | bottom-line if they really cracked down. In contrast, a third
           | party store may be more free to only host apps that are more
           | privacy-oriented or have been security audited, etc.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | Arguments in this day and age are soldiers[1], at least
             | when they come from powerful people: (if you're a
             | corporation or a government) they are things you send to
             | fight for you. You don't have to actually believe them, and
             | the most effective ones are often not ones that are true.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.lesswrong.com/w/arguments-as-soldiers
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | Interesting how Web API's and mobile have gone in different
           | directions. If a web browser breaks compatibility too much
           | then it's a broken browser.
        
             | dwaite wrote:
             | Compatibility is broken constantly on the web, but it is
             | forward compatibility. This is why most browsers now auto-
             | update to newer versions. Websites then require new
             | features which will result in older browsers being non-
             | functional.
             | 
             | Backward incompatible changes happen - they are more
             | difficult due to lack of communication with/pressure on the
             | sites they will break, and coordination of strategy with
             | other browser vendors. This can actually be quite
             | frustrating, as each browser has their own 1-3 month
             | cadence for new releases and it is difficult to track
             | whether a breaking change is going to land on any given
             | browser soon enough to coordinate a new version of a site.
        
               | skybrian wrote:
               | True, complicated websites need to be tested. But if a
               | web site serves simple web pages then it generally
               | doesn't have a maintenance burden. (Though, link rot
               | happens to everyone.)
        
           | Centigonal wrote:
           | Great point, and also: the walled garden operators don't make
           | any money off of free apps, so they don't prioritize
           | supporting creators of free apps. The result is that it
           | becomes unsustainable for most developers to keep a free app
           | on the store.
           | 
           | The incentive structure of walled garden app stores
           | encourages the proliferation of paid apps for everything,
           | including things like an instrument tuner or a notepad app
           | that'd be free in a non-walled garden environment.
        
         | p1mrx wrote:
         | Yeah, SDK updates are a pain. I wrote ChromaDoze in 2010 so
         | I've gone through several. Recently, the most annoying changes
         | were:
         | 
         | - Foreground services used to require a persistent
         | notification, now they're not allowed to have a notification
         | unless you prompt the user. So I added a button to beg for
         | POST_NOTIFICATIONS permission, but now permission can be
         | granted after the service starts, so I had to build some magic
         | to make the service refresh its own notification.
         | 
         | - Gesture navigation steals user input when swiping on the
         | left/right edges of the screen, so I had to build some magic to
         | automatically make my UI narrower when gesture navigation is
         | enabled. Drawing apps can't really use
         | setSystemGestureExclusionRects() because it's limited to 200dp.
         | 
         | - By default, apps now render edge-to-edge vertically, behind
         | the semi-transparent status bar and bottom navigation buttons,
         | so I had to build some magic to avoid those areas.
         | 
         | Now that gesture navigation is the default, many developers
         | aren't testing with 3-button navigation, so I've noticed apps
         | where I can't interact with the bottom because it collides with
         | my navigation buttons.
        
           | phh wrote:
           | > - Gesture navigation steals user input when swiping on the
           | left/right edges of the screen,
           | 
           | Well I've seen even 1B+ dl apps failing to handle that (on a
           | Google Pixel), so at this point I'm putting the blame on
           | Google. I've switched back to three button navigation. Though
           | even some trivial OS gestures like screen unlock fail
           | reliably on my Pixel 6a. (As in, I do the gesture, it fails
           | to register the gesture, i try to make the gesture "with more
           | conviction" through the whole screen and it still fails, and
           | after few minutes it ends up okay somehow)
        
             | cyberax wrote:
             | > I've switched back to three button navigation.
             | 
             | Don't worry. Google broke it as well with shitty "edge-to-
             | edge" nonsense to make the apps more "engaging" by forcing
             | them to deal with the disappearing bottom bar. By default.
        
             | breakingcups wrote:
             | > I've switched back to three button navigation.
             | 
             | I've been using it since forever, but recently noticed that
             | the latest update broke the back button in certain
             | scenarios I can't figure out yet.
        
         | throwaway743 wrote:
         | It's such bullshit. Having been fed up with Google over the
         | last year, since releasing for Android, I'm slowly moving away
         | from them and prioritizing iOS. Haven't had to deal with nearly
         | as much bullshit with them.
        
           | rs186 wrote:
           | Sorry to inform you that Apple has the same bs:
           | 
           | https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/07/15/developer-
           | angry-t...
        
         | dostick wrote:
         | Not exactly constantly update, in past 4 years it was only 2 or
         | 3 required updates to rebuild with latest SDK.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | I find this kind of posting deeply ironic, since HN and
         | ArsTechnica has been ripping Android a new one before this
         | policy came into effect for allowing apps to exploit old APIs
         | for stealing data, triggering popups, spamming notifications
         | and many more changes that have been done from there. Many
         | praises were sung to superiority of iOS and their demand to
         | keep up to date with new policies and even new design.
         | 
         | And now we hear complaining again over things like... (a few
         | posts lower)... having to implement permission dialog to show
         | notifiactions? Right :D
         | 
         | The reality of the situation is that without required SDK
         | changes, every single app - from your banking app to every game
         | - would STILL demand access to all your files, all your
         | documents, all your photos (and their locations) before they
         | run. And then proceeded to spam you with notifications from
         | background trying to sell you crypto.
         | 
         | Fixing those things unfortunately means that also the
         | opensource developers need to move their behinds and implement
         | APIs in a way that respect users more.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | And beyond those things there are often performance / battery
           | optimization related things as part of the update too. Just
           | because an app claims it respects your privacy, it doesn't
           | mean that it is a well behaved app.
           | 
           | Most other android app stores enforce a high target sdk.
           | Fdroid is the only one I know that doesn't and allows apps as
           | far back as Android supports. Android has been yearly, except
           | Android 16 it seems, raising the minimum installable target
           | sdk so eventually updates will be needed to run on new
           | devices.
        
           | franga2000 wrote:
           | So just don't let developers push updates targeting old SDKs?
           | Show a scary permission dialog on every app launch for
           | dangerous permissions? Delist only the apps that actually use
           | or at least register those permissions?
           | 
           | There are many possible solutions and none of them are "you
           | have to recompile once per year or we ban you".
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | Ehm, that's EXACTLY what happens now.
             | 
             | Noone is being banned because of this. You can't publish an
             | update if it targets old Sdk and old sdk targeting apps
             | don't appear to users (unless the user has already
             | installed that app before).
             | 
             | That's it. Google is directly following your
             | recommendation. Developers have usually more than a full
             | year to comply (e.g. Android 16 has just released,
             | developers will have to target Android 15 at the end of
             | August. Android 15 beta was released around march 2024
             | giving developers ability to prepare and test).
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | What part of what I said suggested "old sdk targeting
               | apps don't appear to users (unless the user has already
               | installed that app before)" would be fine?
               | 
               | If the app works and doesn't do anything bad, there's no
               | reason to delist it.
        
         | mossTechnician wrote:
         | One of the best image editors I've ever used, PicSay Pro, fits
         | in the "complete" category. It's surprisingly powerful for
         | splicing together images and adding text, giving you rotation
         | and perspective controls.
         | 
         | It's been feature complete since the early 2010s[0].
         | 
         | I haven't found a comparable image editor since then. All the
         | new ones seem to push AI and internet connectivity, and only
         | have a fraction of the power user features that are buried in
         | PicSay.
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.wired.com/2011/11/picsay-pro-app/
        
       | brnt wrote:
       | These apps are great. They do exactly what it says on the tin.
       | Pity to hear this, now people will have an even harder time
       | getting nonshit bloatware from the Play store.
        
       | xorcist wrote:
       | SECUSO is a shining beacon in the Android app space! Thank you
       | for all your work.
       | 
       | One wishes smartphones was less of a moving target so that the
       | maintenance burden was reasonable. Recompiling all your Windows
       | software every year would seem beyond silly, but here we are.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | As of right now, if you want to be able to run new Windows
         | software without risk of being quarantined by Microsoft
         | Defender, it needs to be signed with a Microsoft-issued
         | certificate.
         | 
         | Requiring periodic updates is not out of the question for
         | Windows apps in the future perhaps with an exception enabled
         | via group policy that's only available for Enterprise versions
         | of Windows, and must be set for each and every individual .exe
         | and .dll.
        
       | ohdeargodno wrote:
       | That's a lot of noise for not much. Yes, the Play store makes you
       | stay up to date with recent Android versions. When I see whining
       | about updating "privacy friendly flashlight", it's literally a
       | single number to change in your build.gradle considering how low
       | feature it is. It's a 5 minute job. 15 if you want to open up
       | android studio and upgrade gradle.
       | 
       | If I can't trust you to do that, why can I trust you with my
       | privacy? Are you using libs that still write in the shared data
       | directory? Do you maintain your http clients up to date to not be
       | fucked by SSL downgrades?
       | 
       | You can even upgrade two versions above (API 36), and you'll be
       | fine for two years.
       | 
       | There's plenty to complain about with Google and Android. Massive
       | API changes. But the Play store saying "please ensure you at
       | least checked what happens when we draw the app edge to edge
       | because Android 15 forces it" is not one.
       | 
       | And yes, if you don't want to do that, put it on fdroid. Host the
       | APK on your website instead of making people go through the most
       | privacy invading service to provide your privacy apps.
        
         | croes wrote:
         | Aren't updates reevaluated by Google.
         | 
         | So it's not just a simple rebuild and an upload but Google
         | wants certain screenshots of the app and all kinds of
         | additional information
        
           | ohdeargodno wrote:
           | Updates get "tested", but unless it just immediately crashes
           | on launch, this is not a reason for rejection.
           | 
           | Screenshot updates are not necessary (just recommend to
           | improve your rankings), and eventually answering some
           | questions like "do you handle personal information in the
           | app?". There's a few edge cases where you need to prove that
           | you're using a specific permission for good reason.
        
         | jmiskovic wrote:
         | I didn't find any noise or whining in the post. The text
         | mentions "effort to keep the apps updated" which is more than
         | just updating the API number. You are frequently requested to
         | adapt the app, the signing process, fill in the ever increasing
         | compliance data. Every request for change is accompanied with a
         | threat.
         | 
         | My app had no privacy concerns, didn't collect any data or even
         | require internet access. I was still expected to jump through
         | all kinds of hoops every few months. Even after I gave up and
         | my app was delisted I still get regular requests for new hoops
         | they came up with with more threats that they would delist
         | (even more?).
         | 
         | And yes, the app was moved to F-Droid which makes it invisible
         | for just about 100% of Android users. I still think these kinds
         | of posts serve as a good deterrent so others don't invest the
         | effort in the Google Play store. The store is meant for
         | corporations. If you are enthusiast or a non-profit considering
         | the app a one-time investment, it will pester you and wear you
         | down.
        
         | philipwhiuk wrote:
         | > There's plenty to complain about with Google and Android.
         | Massive API changes. But the Play store saying "please ensure
         | you at least checked what happens when we draw the app edge to
         | edge because Android 15 forces it" is not one.
         | 
         | The massive API changes are why it's not just bumping a number.
         | That's the exact core problem
        
         | naeq wrote:
         | Too bad there's no downvoting on HN.
        
           | mananaysiempre wrote:
           | There is, for users with at least 501 karma[1].
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-
           | undocumented/blob/m...
        
             | naeq wrote:
             | Good to know, thanks!
        
           | alex1138 wrote:
           | There is, it's unlocked with enough karma
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | What is the partial derivative symbol doing in their email
       | address (last line of the page)?
        
         | Aulig wrote:
         | It's to fool primitive scrapers looking for e-mail addresses
         | with the @ symbol. It's handled like that on the entire KIT
         | website.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | This can't be it because on mouseover I get the mailto: link
           | with the @ symbol in it.
        
       | dotdev wrote:
       | Same thing happened to all my apps. 10 years of games removed due
       | to policy updates that I just couldnt rebuild quickly. Ended up
       | hosting the APKs on my site. Self contained, no third party
       | services but still failed checks.
        
       | rs186 wrote:
       | For context, something similar happened to an iOS game:
       | https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/07/15/developer-angry-t...
        
       | ncruces wrote:
       | At this point, I've also basically abandoned my Google Play apps.
       | I simply cannot afford the time to keep them up to date for no
       | good purpose.
       | 
       | And it's absurd. They were a perfectly sustainable "business"
       | with a single unobtrusive banner ad (no tracking, no permissions
       | aside from internet), that was more than enough to cover server
       | costs indefinitely, for around a million monthly active users.
       | The ad free versions costed $2 but was actually less financially
       | attractive to me (I only created it to give the 1% of users that
       | said they wanted it the option).
       | 
       | They are replaced by apps with full screen ads, trackers and
       | subscriptions.
        
       | hollowonepl wrote:
       | Google has become more structured and strict in their mobile dev
       | program but still much easier go cope with than Apple when
       | exception handling is required. Apple fails in many fronts in
       | these matters.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | I get apps only from F-Droid, so this is fine.
        
       | liendolucas wrote:
       | Good. Developers should follow suit. Each day I blame myself for
       | having got into what the industry has become: a digital sisyphean
       | nightmare. Either update or die.
        
         | abakker wrote:
         | not a developer here, but doesn't somebody make a service that
         | can just "update" the app every day by moving functions around
         | in the make file or something? Pointless rules deserve
         | pointless solutions.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | No issue is that with new Android versions, it wont work.
        
       | suddenexample wrote:
       | I don't particularly agree with Epic's victory in the Google/Epic
       | case, but the one thing I hope it accomplishes is to convince
       | those in charge of the Play Store that it's finally time to have
       | developer-friendly policies (otherwise someone else will). Play
       | Store policies constantly virtue signal about security and
       | privacy while continually making it harder for developers to
       | release high quality apps.
        
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