[HN Gopher] Rotring 600 Ballpoint Pen
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Rotring 600 Ballpoint Pen
        
       Author : Alupis
       Score  : 178 points
       Date   : 2025-07-25 18:35 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.shellshore.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.shellshore.com)
        
       | treetalker wrote:
       | I have several Rotring 600 (and 800) pencils. They're great and
       | super grippy. If you have sweaty/slippery hands while writing,
       | the Rotring 600 pen might be right up your alley.
       | 
       | As pencils go, though, lately I've been fond of the Uni Shift 0.9
       | mm. It's inexpensive; retracts for pocket carry; and I've never
       | broken a lead with it. My only real complaint is that the eraser
       | is minuscule and can't be reliably adjusted once the initial
       | usable part is gone.
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | Yawn. My Lamy Unic has a telescoping tip.
       | 
       | https://unsharpen.com/pen/lamy-unic-ballpoint/
        
         | gorgoiler wrote:
         | Hah, that is indeed a fine looking writing instrument. I have
         | the fountain pen from the same range. It has a similar hinged
         | pocket clip and the machining is beautiful.
         | 
         | I've found many interesting products via HN recommendations. Do
         | you have any more interesting pens?
        
           | pivic wrote:
           | The next step could be Montblanc ballpoint pens, but that's a
           | very different level where it comes to money; the writing
           | experience is far beyond that of most ballpoint pens at a
           | sub-100-USD range.
           | 
           | Then there's _fountain pens_ , which is a whole new
           | ballpark... If that interests yourself, I recommend these
           | brands: Platinum, LAMY, Pelikan, Sailor, Montblanc, Pilot,
           | and Nakaya, in no particular order.
        
         | antonvs wrote:
         | One advantage of the Rotring is that they haven't been
         | discontinued, so you can actually buy one for a reasonable
         | price.
        
       | kstrauser wrote:
       | That's a very nice pen and I get the appeal. However, I've
       | recently discovered Uni Jetstream pens, and I don't see ever
       | buying anything else. There are nicer pen bodies out there but
       | I've never used a pen that does a better job of putting ink on
       | paper, reliably, every time, without ever skipping in the
       | slightest, not requiring any significant pressure, working on
       | every kind of paper, and drying instantly. For me, it writes as
       | nicely as my fountain pens but with all the convenience of a
       | ballpoint. They're also about $3 each, depending where you buy
       | them, so they're dirt cheap as far as nicely-working pens go.
        
         | joshvm wrote:
         | Jetstreams are great. Worth pointing out that you can buy
         | refills in various form factors, including Parker style that'll
         | fit the Rotring 600:
         | 
         | https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-SXR-600-Jetstream-Ballpoint-Pen-...
         | 
         | I also recommend the 800 mechanical pencil which has a very
         | satisfying twist-retract tip.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | Why? Why would you do this to me?
           | 
           |  _Sighs and busts out the credit card._
           | 
           | Edit: it's on its way. Curse you.
        
           | dillydogg wrote:
           | The discovery of the jotter style refill led me down a path
           | of trying many different inks for my Rotring 600. I ended up
           | liking the OHTO ceramic rollerball quite well, partly for the
           | ink, and also for the appearance of the nib, which I think
           | suits the Rotring 600 nicely
        
         | anthonyko wrote:
         | Also a big fan of the Uniball, perviously was using Signo DXs,
         | but have switched over to the Uniball One. I think that
         | slightly thicker barrel helps with my handwriting. Also love
         | the wire pocket clip.
         | 
         | https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-One-F-Gel-Pen-0.5-mm-Faded-...
         | 
         | I do like the Rotring pencils over the pens, but still prefer
         | Uni as I feel less bad about losing a Uni Kuru as it is cheaper
         | and still has knurled grip. Also has a fun rotating lead.
         | 
         | https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Roulette-Mechanical-Pe...
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | Those are very nice! I like the Uni Jetstream RT:
           | https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-Jetstream-RT-Ballpoint-
           | Pen-...
           | 
           | It feels really nice to write with. I also have a Kuru Toga I
           | picked up at a neat little stationery store on vacation, but
           | I was reminded when I got home that I don't care for writing
           | with pencils. Should that change, there it is waiting for me.
        
           | ryanchants wrote:
           | I've picked up each color of the new metal body Kuru Toga,
           | and they are an extra level of extravagance on an already
           | perfect pencil: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Metal-
           | Mechanical-Penci...
           | 
           | Pigma Microns and Uniball One are my go-to pens. Previously
           | it was Signo DXs as well. I think I prefer the barrel of the
           | DX, but the wire clip and general appearance of the Uniball
           | sold me.
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | I agree that, even though the Uni Pens write well, they look a
         | tad uglier than their counterparts. I like rOtring's heavier
         | feel. I write with a fountain pen at most times when I'm at my
         | desk but I always carry much simpler gel/ball pens. My
         | daughters and I have settled on all sorts of rOtring and we are
         | loving it.
        
         | cobalt wrote:
         | have you tried pentel EnerGel?
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | I haven't! Tell me what you think about it.
        
             | jmhammond wrote:
             | Imagine writing smoothly like butter as clouds part and
             | angels sing.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, it's not water safe, but it's great. My
             | favorite feature is that it dries REALLY quickly, so I can
             | left-hand without smudging.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | The water safety is what nudged me off fountain pens and
               | back to ballpoints. I use a bullet journal and don't want
               | water to wash it all away.
               | 
               | I know you can get fountain inks that are more resistant,
               | but at that level of finickiness, I'd rather just carry a
               | lower maintenance ballpoint, and the Jetstream is good
               | enough that I don't miss my other lovely pens.
               | 
               | PS: One time a reporter asked me what I thought of a
               | particular food, and I described it as snacking on the
               | wings of angels sent to earth for our dining pleasure,
               | and they quoted me. My wife reminds me of this often.
               | 
               | Edit: Here's the quote: https://www.removepaywall.com/sea
               | rch?url=https://omaha.com/m...
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Not the GP but I have (BL77), and much prefer the Jetstream.
        
           | youniverse wrote:
           | +1 to EnerGel and the RSVP which are my two daily drivers.
        
         | xeonmc wrote:
         | You can buy a Uniball One-F (the premium body) and put
         | Jetstream refills in there as a drop-in replacement.
         | 
         | Note though that for longevity in engineering notebooks I don't
         | like to use Jetstreams because of the yellowing seepage problem
         | over time. But for everyday throwaway writing this setup is the
         | ideal best of both worlds.
        
           | ethersteeds wrote:
           | Since you're kindly offering recommendations, what do you use
           | for longevity in engineering notebooks?
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | If you want a low maintenance option, your best choice will
             | be fade-proof pigment inked systems.
             | 
             | From top of my head:                   - UniBall Eye /
             | Vision Elite's Red, Blue, Black and Green (look for fade-
             | proof / water-poof note, or SuperINK)         - Sakura /
             | Faber Castell / Rotring pigment inked, felt tip markers
             | (Look for Archival Ink / Fade Resistant)
             | 
             | If you prefer fountain pens:                   - Pelikan
             | 4001 blue black (which is not sold in the US)         -
             | Rohrer & Klinger's Iron Gall inks (scribosa, ebony, etc.)
             | - Noodler's "Bulletproof" series cellulose reactive inks.
             | - Lamy Blue Black         - Lamy Crystal Benitonite
             | - Montblanc Permanent Blue / Permanent Black
             | 
             | I'm sure there are many more, but these are the ones I know
             | and had experience with.
             | 
             | Always use an acid-free higher quality paper. Leuchtturm
             | 1917, Rhodia, Yu-Sari, Mnemosyne comes to my mind. Do NOT
             | use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They are not
             | designed for fountain pens.
        
               | sevensor wrote:
               | > Do NOT use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They
               | are not designed for fountain pens
               | 
               | Or for hard use in general. Well over priced for the
               | quality of the paper and bindings.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | What bothers me is, their notebooks were fine when they
               | first came to market. I still have their old, filled
               | notebooks with great bindings and paper, with spotless
               | ink retention, incl. fountain pens.
               | 
               | They gradually reduced their quality, and created a
               | "higher, more expensive tier" to offer their previous
               | quality.
               | 
               | Leuchtturm 1917 is a world apart when compared to today's
               | Moleskine.
        
             | xeonmc wrote:
             | Unironically, my favourite is the standard Bic Cristal
             | medium 1.0mm in black, but placed inside a Bic Round Stic
             | body that I've reused for many years (I prefer a plain
             | gripless thin body, since I use a gentle finger-leverage
             | posture for applying pressure variations which I learned
             | from the Palmer script method)
             | 
             | Or, for gel-based, the Uniball Signo black ink is my second
             | choice. I particularly like using the Signo GelStick 0.7mm
             | which I can make line variations from hairlines to super
             | broad strokes (again, the leverage-based force application
             | is key for effortless pressure variation techniques)
        
           | joshvm wrote:
           | What's the timeline for this? My undergrad notes from ~15
           | years ago have held up without obvious degradation. Those are
           | mostly Jetstream inks on generic paper (some Oxford
           | notebook). I swapped to fountain pens at some point when I
           | discovered Noodler's. Bernanke Blue dries extremely fast.
           | Though my TWSBIs from the time haven't held up well. They
           | were fine when constantly used but they cracked in storage.
        
             | xeonmc wrote:
             | It somewhat depends on the humidity and temperature. I have
             | not tested for controls, but I suspect it has to do with
             | the low-viscosity oil component undergoing some process
             | similar to paper chromatography where upon contact with
             | moisture it separates from the pigment seeps to the back of
             | the page.
        
         | lelele wrote:
         | What variant of Uni Jetstream pens? Because here are a few:
         | SXN-150, SXN-210, etc. Thank you.
        
           | lars_francke wrote:
           | I've been using SXN-210 for over a decade and I love them.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Same here. I tried a lot of different pens and these are
             | still the best.
        
           | waynesonfire wrote:
           | I had a similar issue. I like the SXN-210, it has a removal
           | cap and 1.0mm tip size.
           | 
           | I got a box of 12 for a few bucks from Amazon, here is the
           | link since it's hard to search by model,
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LD1NK
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | This is what I've been using: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-
           | ball-Jetstream-RT-Ballpoint-Pen-...
           | 
           | Although lately I've been using this multipen:
           | https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-
           | Mult...
           | 
           | It's nice having 3 colors of ink available, and it's not that
           | chunky blue thing we had in elementary school.
        
         | agos wrote:
         | the Uni Jetstream and Power Tank carried me through university.
         | Nothing I've ever tried comes close.
        
         | navigate8310 wrote:
         | Oh if you like Jetstream, you'll love Uni Zento even more
        
       | joecool1029 wrote:
       | The rotring 800 0.5mm pencil has been a workhorse for me. My
       | conditions were that it can handle being carried at all times and
       | not stab me in the leg.
       | 
       | It's even survived going through clothes washing machine. The one
       | part I had some minor annoyance with is the ring below the
       | control to adjust tip retraction would loosen up when carried
       | awhile. I originally used a bit of superglue which came out in
       | the wash. Now I've added some loctite so it will probably never
       | loosen again. Other than some finish wearing off it's been great
       | for years.
       | 
       | Edit: oh I use pilot neox F graphite in it. Feels like writing
       | with HB but it doesn't break as easy as I write with pretty heavy
       | hands.
        
       | DocTomoe wrote:
       | I've been using the rotring 800 mechanical pencil for a while now
       | ... until it randomly broke down (no, I did not treat I strangely
       | in every way or form). I'm using the - much cheaper - Kuru Toga
       | Advance now ... which rotates the graphite slighly whenever I
       | lift the pencil from the paper, leading to a sharper tip and thus
       | a sharper script.
       | 
       | Plus, I am a lot less concerned with _losing_ a 5 dollar pencil
       | as compared to a 50 dollar pencil.
        
       | xz18r wrote:
       | I have a 600 and 800 mechanical pencil. Love them, the feel can't
       | be beat - only by the (significantly cheaper) Pentel Graphgear
       | 1000.
        
         | elromulous wrote:
         | Love the rotring pencils.
         | 
         | If you haven't already, give the Alvin Draft/Matic a try, imho
         | it's up there along with them.
        
         | bobek wrote:
         | Love Pentel Graphear 1000, have multiple distributed throughout
         | the house/workshop and backpacks :)
         | 
         | The other I really like is UNI Kuru Toga, the plastic one
         | (shrug). The twist mechanism actually works; it is slightly
         | wider thus more comfortable (for me) for longer writing
         | sessions.
        
           | ykonstant wrote:
           | The twist mechanism really does work, but unfortunately it is
           | easy to damage (for me). I damaged two kuru togas in the span
           | of 6 months, very frustrating. The twist still works, but it
           | is very wonky.
        
             | barrenko wrote:
             | In my case - as my basic Kuru Toga died last week, the
             | plastic of the casing just under the mechanism / just at
             | the end of the body next to the rim broke down - because of
             | the pressure i'm assuming, still a great pencil. I'm buying
             | the advance one next.
        
         | prpl wrote:
         | Graphgear 500 is also excellent, though without a retractable
         | tip. I think those who like the grip of a rotring would prefer
         | it over the 1000.
        
       | hanief wrote:
       | I'd like to try this, but it is quite expensive compared to Zebra
       | Sarasa or Pentel Energel. The metal body is interesting, I wonder
       | how different is the weight and feel to pens with plastic body.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | I love the Zebra F-701. I'm also going to try the pen in this
         | review, but wanted to give a recommendation to the F-701, as
         | someone who hates to write, I like that pen.
        
         | teamonkey wrote:
         | I use one and it feels very heavy, almost unnaturally heavy,
         | and indestructibly solid.
         | 
         | Not at all uncomfortable once you get used to it, but the first
         | time I pick it up after a few days my reaction is still always
         | "wow that's heavy".
        
         | spragl wrote:
         | The difference in feel is significant.
         | 
         | What is best is a personal preference. Some people like their
         | pens to be as light as possible. Personally I far prefer the
         | solid weight of my Rotring 600s. So I recommend that you try it
         | out.
        
       | chihuahua wrote:
       | I had the fountain pen version of this in the 1980s. It seemed
       | very sturdy, as if it was machined from a solid piece of metal.
        
       | ktzar wrote:
       | I still think that fountain pens are the pinnacle of writing
       | stationery. One lasts generations and there's no consumables that
       | need recycling or disposing of, if you use a rechargeable
       | cartridge and buy ink bottles.
        
         | neilfrndes wrote:
         | I agree :)
         | 
         | My daily driver is a Pilot Vanishing Point. It's a fountain pen
         | with a form factor of a clickable ball point pen.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | Vanishing Points are nice pens. I have an all matte black
           | one. Also, pens tipping gets polished according to your
           | handwriting over time, making it completely yours.
           | 
           | I also like Lamys. Most of their pens look simple but they're
           | work horses. Esp. Safari Umber.
           | 
           | I'm a bit too deep in that rabbit hole. :)
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | I wish I could find a faceted VP --- still kicking myself for
           | not buying one when I had a chance a couple of years ago.
        
         | avian wrote:
         | > One lasts generations
         | 
         | Multiple Parker Vectors I had typically lasted a few years of
         | use each before the plastic windings between the pen head and
         | the holder wore out or broke.
         | 
         | My Pilot Metropolitan did the same just a few months back.
         | 
         | I still have the high-end pens my grandfather used that, while
         | mechanically still sound, I am unable to get the ink flowing
         | through them.
         | 
         | I love writing with fountain pens, but long lasting they are
         | not in my experience.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | I have multiple pens which are a decade old, incl. a
           | Metropolitan and Safari, and write like day one despite being
           | used frequently.
           | 
           | I also have a couple ones older than 50. They also work.
           | Clogged ones generally need a good flush with a fountain pen
           | flush.
        
             | anu7df wrote:
             | Also, if you do not want to spend on any specialized
             | fountain pen flush solution, diluted windex works very
             | well. From the smell I am willing to bet that most fountain
             | pen cleaning solutions are exactly that.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | Thanks! Unfortunately we don't have Windex here. Many of
               | them here contain alcohol, and some others contain lemon
               | juice to remove calc stains from glass. I wouldn't risk
               | that, actually.
               | 
               | I use J. Herbin's flush, which doesn't mind being used
               | over and over. I filled an old Lamy 30ml ink bottle with
               | one, and flush my pens with the same "liquid". From what
               | I feel, it has some soap, some other surfactants, which
               | it doesn't react with the rubber and seals inside the
               | converters and pistons. Alcohol eats them from my
               | experience.
               | 
               | The bottle I have gained interesting properties. It's a
               | green-turquoise hue, which becomes reddish if you shine
               | strong light through it :)
               | 
               | But it cleans like it's never used, which is nice.
        
               | Telemakhos wrote:
               | Have you tried ultrasonic cleaning with plain water? I
               | got a cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and started
               | cleaning my pens with it, and they work beautifully.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I have an ultrasonic cleaner too, but no pens were
               | stubborn enough to necessitate a bath inside it.
               | 
               | I generally "power flush" my pens with a syringe: Get a
               | 50ml syringe, cut the sealed end of a cartridge, fill the
               | syringe, mate the syringe, cartridge, pen, and push the
               | water through. After a couple of times, the pen is
               | thoroughly cleaned. Shake a couple of times, let it dry.
               | 
               | On the other hand, many (if not most) inks have some
               | detergents in it, and keep your pen clean and clog free
               | as long as you use them. Older inks used Solv-X which was
               | more effective but deemed carcinogen and banned in modern
               | inks.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | I have a Metropolitan and the only reason I don't use it is
             | because the cap doesn't seal well and the ink evaporates
             | quickly.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | Yes, metropolitan is not a "super sealer" which you can
               | leave for a period, then pick up and write. It demands to
               | be used regularly. It also doesn't like to stand nib-up
               | for long periods.
               | 
               | Because of it, I generally EDC it with a good, low
               | maintenance inks, and try to use it very regularly. As an
               | EDC pen, the nib balances its quirks.
               | 
               | Lamy 2000 and Pilot Custom 823 are two of the most
               | patient pens I have ever used in that regard.
        
           | noufalibrahim wrote:
           | I disagree. I used a Waterman Expert for a long time. It
           | conked out when someone I loaned it to dropped it. I switched
           | to a Noodlers Ahab (which has a flexible nib) so you can do a
           | little bit of flourishing for headings etc. I've used it for
           | a long time and still do. Recently, I switched to a broad
           | tipped Lamy Safari (which was a birthday gift).
           | 
           | My main problem is that most papers can't really handle the
           | inkflow from fountain pens anymore and since the place I come
           | from is somewhat humid, the papers quickly start to bleed
           | ink. So, my more common instrument is a Pentel graphgear
           | mechanical pencil.
           | 
           | I do calligraphy as a hobby so I have separate arsenal of dip
           | pens and nibs but those are not for daily use.
        
             | DrewADesign wrote:
             | I've also got a noodler ahab that's been going strong for
             | years- vegetable resin body, plastic everything else except
             | the metal nib, clip and ring around the opening of the cap.
        
           | triknomeister wrote:
           | Parker Vectors were cheap Parkers in my experience. They were
           | like the 40 dollar nikes that you used to get. More money was
           | spent in the brand than the quality.
           | 
           | I got a Parker Sonnet as a prize in a competition. It is
           | still good, even though I rarely use it nowadays.
        
             | sudhirb wrote:
             | I've had an ancient Parker 51 for a good decade or so now
             | which I use almost daily, that originally belonged to my
             | great-grandmother.
             | 
             | I'd expect there to be a reasonable amount of variation in
             | how long these pens last due to differences in usage,
             | machining tolerances, ink types and materials - though mine
             | has done very well considering how many times I've chucked
             | it into a bag, dropped it on hard floors, etc. (I've
             | probably just been lucky so far).
        
           | tom_ wrote:
           | The stainless steel Parker Vector is much harder-wearing and
           | available for under PS15. Same nib unit as the plastic ones.
           | 
           | (I found them particularly good when used with the washable
           | ink cartridges, never drying out even after long periods of
           | disuse. The permanent ink isn't as good in this respect and
           | the pens need more regular use.)
        
           | kps wrote:
           | Parker, Waterman, Rotring were all bought by Newell
           | (Rubbermaid) and gutted. You have to go back to 20th-century
           | production to get the real thing.
        
         | jgrodziski wrote:
         | Yes definitely agree, I own the Rotring 600 and 800 pencil and
         | they are fantastic, as already said the ballpoint version is
         | dependant on the refill. The construction is sturdy and they
         | feel very robust and heavy. But... I've recently transitioned
         | to Pilot Capless fountain pen and it's night and day with the
         | write feeling: https://www.pilotpen.eu/our-products/capless/
         | with ink bottle refill. The nib size is important, I found the
         | medium too large and landed on the fine nib size.
        
         | radicalbyte wrote:
         | They're also horrible to use if you're left-handed and writing
         | English or any other left-to-right language.
        
           | noufalibrahim wrote:
           | Ah yes. I'm right handed and I've suffered from this when
           | trying RTL scripts (Arabic) for calligraphy. It's a challenge
           | to keep your hand from blotting what you've written.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | As a lefty, I disagree, but I don't "overwrite". I hold pen
           | like a righty.
        
           | avian wrote:
           | As a counter example, I'm left handed and write hundreds of
           | pages per year in a left-to-right language and don't have
           | issues with smudging lines with my palm.
           | 
           | Maybe the inks I use dry fast enough (Parker Quink or Pelikan
           | 4001) or it's the way I learned to write back in school.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | I'd argue hand technique is more important than inks. I
             | have wet pens with slower drying inks, and I write a
             | similar amount without any smudges.
        
             | triknomeister wrote:
             | I'm right handed and used to smudge ink, don't ask me how.
             | Only now, with my notebooks at 90 degree angle can I write
             | properly without smudging.
        
             | radicalbyte wrote:
             | You're probably doing the lefty-handed-curl. If you adopt a
             | really weird writing position you can write without
             | smudges. Depending on your body-type it's either easy and
             | obvious or very uncomfortable. I'm in the latter group so I
             | just use a pencil.
        
               | Theodores wrote:
               | Euch. That lefty-handed-curl is a solution proposed by
               | the right handed world. The correct way to write as a
               | left handed person is to turn the page ninety degrees.
        
               | hydrogen7800 wrote:
               | My left-handed father always turned the page 90 deg to
               | the right when given something to sign, with the left
               | side of the line up. He caught hell for that in catholic
               | school.
        
               | nordsieck wrote:
               | > The correct way to write as a left handed person is to
               | turn the page ninety degrees.
               | 
               | That is such a genius solution!
        
               | Dilettante_ wrote:
               | Or play it like DaVinci and write mirrored, right-to-
               | left.
        
               | avian wrote:
               | I looked up some pictures of this lefty-handed curl and I
               | suddenly feel immense gratitude towards the people from
               | my childhood that taught me how to use my left hand to
               | write in a practical and comfortable manner.
        
           | mk_stjames wrote:
           | There was this article posted here on HN about the
           | geodemography of left handedness in the US, and all sorts of
           | discussion about past culture of eschewing LH'ded children in
           | schools and such...
           | 
           | and I was surprised that no one brought up the very real
           | downsides of being left handed in a left-to-right writing
           | system region of the world (which is most of it). Most
           | comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism and
           | straight up malice with regard to students being forced a
           | hand in writing early in school and it seemed no one brought
           | up the very real practical reasons for preferring to write
           | right handed, especially with ink.
           | 
           | And I say this as someone who is completely ambidextrous when
           | writing but does not do the 'hook hand' left hand to write,
           | and thus I usually write right-handed with pens and pencils.
           | I have a left handed friend who does write that way and it
           | just screams RSI/Carpal Tunnel to me.
        
             | nelox wrote:
             | I wonder if those issues similarly affect the right handers
             | among the 2 billon or so users of right-to-left writing
             | systems?
        
               | voidUpdate wrote:
               | Is there a significant difference in left-handedness in
               | RTL countries? It seems strange to me that an RTL writing
               | system would develop in a vast majority right handed
               | environment, for the same reasons that left handed people
               | have issues with LTR systems
        
             | boston_clone wrote:
             | > Most comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism
             | and straight up malice
             | 
             | That's because this is why it was done. My parochial school
             | in the 1990s did not allow me to use my left had because of
             | the associations with evil, and one need not look further
             | than the latin word for left to realize how entrenched this
             | mindset was. To extrapolate that into a beneficial practice
             | for writing styles seems like an unfounded stretch.
        
             | lozenge wrote:
             | Making left handed people write right handed doesn't make
             | them right handed.
        
           | christophilus wrote:
           | Or if you occasionally spill coffee or any other liquid ever.
           | I sometimes hand-write recipes. Fountain pens + sloppy
           | kitchen meal prep are a bad combo.
        
             | _Wintermute wrote:
             | You can get some very permanent water-proof inks. Platinum
             | Carbon black is my favourite.
        
               | lb1lf wrote:
               | De Atramentis, too, has a range of permanent inks which
               | are quite fast-drying, too.
               | 
               | Happy customer for years.
        
               | sevensor wrote:
               | Platinum Carbon Black is a wonderful ink. It seems to
               | work very well in cheap fountain pens with flow issues.
               | It's highly resistant to coffee spills and looks ok on
               | mediocre paper. Only drawback is cleaning it up; it
               | cleans up like used motor oil.
        
             | mrob wrote:
             | You can get fountain pen inks that chemically react with
             | cellulose for complete water resistance (there may still be
             | a little smudging from unreacted ink washing off the
             | paper). Noodler's Black is a famous example. I like this
             | kind of ink, although it's not without its drawbacks,
             | because cotton/rayon/other plant fiber clothing is also
             | mostly cellulose and will be stained just as permanently.
        
               | specialist wrote:
               | > _inks that chemically react with cellulose_
               | 
               | I had no idea. Great tip; thanks.
               | 
               | I'm looking for alternatives to lamination for posting
               | outdoor flyers & signs.
               | 
               | I just received some (alleged) weatherproof copier paper
               | to experiment with.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ3UNWL
        
               | bikenaga wrote:
               | I've used only Noodler's Bulletproof Black for years (in
               | a TWSBI Eco piston-fill) - it works great, and I realized
               | if I was going to take the time to write extensive notes
               | it was worth having some protection against water.
               | 
               | I previously used Waterman Black - it flows really
               | smoothly, but it isn't waterproof. Also, it doesn't seem
               | quite as dark as the Noodler's.
        
           | Foobar8568 wrote:
           | You need a fast dry ink and good paper. But yes with usual
           | supplies, it can be problematic. My kid enjoys writing with
           | fountain pain but her furnitures are given by school and they
           | hand out a lot of printedpaper to fill..So no luck.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | The problem I find is fountain pens are awesome in the
             | dragging motion but really don't do well with a pushing
             | motion. Writing left handed in a LTR world means you're
             | constantly pushing the nib while a right hander drags the
             | nib.
        
           | jbd0 wrote:
           | You can always write in reverse like Leonardo DaVinci did.
        
           | deltarholamda wrote:
           | Perhaps a silly question, but would something like a Mahl
           | stick help with left-handed writing? Painters and old-school
           | draftsmen use them to keep their grubby mitts off the
           | surface.
           | 
           | I suppose in today's public school you wouldn't be allowed
           | one because it could conceivably be used as a weapon, but it
           | would seem to be helpful.
        
             | hydrogen7800 wrote:
             | >Mahl stick
             | 
             | Thank you for using its name. I first saw it on TV showing
             | someone hand painting a design on a car (probably a Rolls
             | Royce on Top Gear) and thought it was brilliant in its
             | simplicity, but didnt know its name.
        
               | deltarholamda wrote:
               | I just made one with a dowel and a big superball, but
               | I've seen one that they put a skateboard wheel (with
               | bearings) on the end so it rolls.
        
             | LaffertyDev wrote:
             | Left handed person here. Writing is already a chore, tying
             | up both hands just to use a fountain pen without smearing
             | seems to cross an effort/reward boundary.
             | 
             | Maybe useful if you were really committed to the tool. I've
             | been casually interested in fountain pens for a while but
             | the downsides seem to stack up whenever I actually look
             | into it.
        
               | deltarholamda wrote:
               | You don't have to hold the stick, generally. For
               | painting, yes, but you wouldn't have to when writing. It
               | would just hold your hand up a little bit.
               | 
               | Maybe try a dowel with a glob of clay or something on the
               | end and see?
               | 
               | The biggest crime to lefties is the fold-away half-size
               | writing desk you see in lecture halls.
        
             | bookofjoe wrote:
             | The Wikipedia entry is "Maulstick":
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulstick
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | My go to choice for several decades since high school, even got
         | to collect some throught the years, mostly Parker.
         | 
         | However they are also dangerous, beware of hand movents when
         | holding one, otherwise there is quite some cleaning to do, and
         | even document rewriting.
        
         | tiniuclx wrote:
         | My first full time software engineering paycheque went towards
         | a Lamy 2000. I've been using it for many years now and it's
         | never let me down.
        
           | someothherguyy wrote:
           | That probably costs more than I ever spent on all writing
           | utensils I've ever owned.
           | 
           | What makes this cost that much (other than they are owned by
           | uniball)? The material certainly isn't worth that much? And
           | the function would be replicated in the market for less? So,
           | what makes it not some luxury bullshit?
        
             | sudhirb wrote:
             | I think the budget play is to get a cheap refillable
             | fountain pen and some cheap fountain pen ink (I bought some
             | Diamine bottled ink about 10 years ago and I've still got
             | plenty left).
             | 
             | More expensive fountain pens are indeed luxury products -
             | replicas are often available on places like aliexpress.
             | 
             | I think it probably feels like bullshit if you don't think
             | you'll gain any satisfaction or derive any pleasure from
             | the act of writing or the aesthetics of your writing
             | instrument.
        
             | tiniuclx wrote:
             | I'd been using the much cheaper Lamy Al Star (admittedly
             | also a step up from the plastic Lamy Safari) for a while,
             | and I really liked the feel of them. To be honest, I kind
             | of just wanted a nicer version of that, and the 2000 did
             | not disappoint.
             | 
             | The nib feels much, smoother. Mine is fairly wet without
             | excessively showing through low quality paper. The
             | refilling mechanism is a lot nicer than the cartridge-pump
             | I'd been using on the Al Star.
             | 
             | Is it better? Yeah, but it's not 10x better than the Al
             | Star which is what the price would suggest. So it is
             | definitely a luxury product from that point of view.
        
             | Alupis wrote:
             | Ever buy yourself something nice that you use often? A nice
             | belt, a nice comb, or a nice razor? A nice kitchen knife
             | arguably does the same job as a cheap Walmart special.
             | 
             | Sometimes it's nice to splurge on high quality items -
             | especially when you use them every day, like a pen. It's a
             | little thing, but it brings pleasure every time you use it.
             | 
             | Not everything is about cost efficiency. You'll never
             | regret buying quality.
        
         | dist-epoch wrote:
         | I vaguely remember the writing tip getting blunt after a while
         | and needing change.
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | That happens on inexpensive nibs which lack iridium (or some
           | similar metal/alloy) tipping.
           | 
           | A tipped fountain pen will be incredibly resistant to wear
           | --- while I did significantly wear down the inexpensive
           | Platignum (British brand, but despite the name untipped
           | steel) fountain pen I had when I was younger after a couple
           | of decades, when I finally switched to using more expensive
           | pens with nibs for tipping, haven't had to replace a nib
           | since.
        
         | crinkly wrote:
         | Oh hell no. I used fountain pens, good ones, for nearly 20
         | years. They leak, blob all over the place, are difficult to
         | refill, require cleaning, end up with servicing problems when
         | you really need to write immediately. Also difficult to draw
         | complex diagrams with. Absolute self inflicted pain and misery.
         | 
         | I use Muji gel pens now. None of those problems and you can
         | take the cartridges back to them and they recycle them. And the
         | pen bodies themselves last functionally forever.
        
         | michaelmior wrote:
         | > there's no consumables that need recycling or disposing of,
         | if you use a rechargeable cartridge and buy ink bottles.
         | 
         | Genuine question: don't you need to dispose or recycle the ink
         | bottles?
        
           | Havoc wrote:
           | They're usually glass and last years. So maybe Gp isn't
           | counting that as consumable
        
         | quatonion wrote:
         | Totally agree. I used a fountain pen all the way through school
         | and university.
         | 
         | My all time favourite was the Parker 25 in stainless steel,
         | with a medium nib and blue-black ink. Sometimes I would go for
         | purple if I was feeling a bit raunchy.
         | 
         | I know a lot of people liked the 105, and I had one, and a
         | bunch of others, but there is something about the utilitarian
         | functionality of the 25 that I really have a soft spot for.
         | 
         | I think there was a year or two where I may have flirted with
         | ballpens, but not seriously.
         | 
         | Also even used Rotring and Staedtler Mars technical drawing
         | pens on and off for regular writing. That was always fun in the
         | middle of a lecture with ink everywhere.
         | 
         | It's such a shame I don't get to write on paper that much these
         | days. No real need. Such a beautiful experience though.
        
         | WillAdams wrote:
         | Well, there are the bottles ink comes in --- I left behind a
         | drawerful of empty Sheaffer bottles at a previous job which
         | I've always regretted.
         | 
         | Agreed, except I have _not_ been able to get my Aurora Hastil
         | to write/fill reliably for a couple of years now, despite
         | cleaning, and I can't send it in to the manufacturer since the
         | tip was ground to a chisel italic by Gretta Lostkemper (who
         | used to oversee custom grinding at Sheaffer). Guess I need to
         | get an ultrasonic cleaner and try that....
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Fountain pens are great but that's only half the equation. You
         | need to consider paper as well.
         | 
         | Because I'm usually using low quality paper, I mostly use
         | ballpoint pens so that I can write on both sides of the page.
         | Fountain pens can feel scratchy on cheap paper and the ink
         | bleeds through.
        
         | hangonhn wrote:
         | Fountain pen requires some skill to write well. It's amazing in
         | the hands of those who knows calligraphy and just creates extra
         | smudges for those who are more used to normal pens.
        
           | kulahan wrote:
           | It takes no time at all to figure out if your only real goal
           | is "I wanna be able to use this as deftly as a regular pen".
           | Really no more difficult than knowing how not to smudge
           | marker by closing a book while it's still wet, for instance.
        
       | LoveMortuus wrote:
       | I've only had bad experiences with Parker pens and refills, they
       | just don't flow and fill the line as nicely and constantly as
       | Pilot Hi-Tec and other Pilot pens.
       | 
       | I paid more than 20EUR for a Parker pen with refills and it was
       | worse than a 3EUR Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint (which is my current
       | favourite, I have it in black, red, green, blue and pink
       | colours).
        
         | ykonstant wrote:
         | Parker refills are a nightmare. I have tested both the Indian
         | brand and the French brand of QuinkFlow several times, and they
         | are all horrible. Atrocious. I got some Monteverde, Pelikan and
         | Schneier refills and they work well.
         | 
         | If you can get a compatible Monteverde, it is great. Schneier
         | is also very nice, but hybrid. Pelikan has the pelikan blue
         | style, you either love it or hate it. QuinkFlow... ok, whoever
         | says they are fine, send me that legendary "fine" refill I keep
         | hearing about.
        
           | iosjunkie wrote:
           | Ive had good luck with 'Monteverde Capless Gel Ballpoint'
           | refills for my Rotring 600s.
        
         | selcuka wrote:
         | Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint has been my favourite for the last ~20
         | years. I'm not a heavy user, so one pen lasts for years as an
         | added bonus.
        
         | max51 wrote:
         | Most of the best pens refills are made by japanese companies
         | (eg. Pilot, Zebra, Uni-ball, etc.) and Parker style is
         | nonexistant in that country. If you look at any "top XX best
         | pens" lists online, the vast majority is not avaible in Parker.
         | And when they are, they usually have fewer color and size
         | options.
         | 
         | It's very disapointing to see brand new nice pen designs that
         | only support Parker refills.
        
       | TheSilva wrote:
       | I am going to derail the conversation from the pen and into the
       | refills.
       | 
       | As a left-handed that refuses to twist their hand to avoid
       | smudging everything: what refills brands offer the best dry time
       | to avoid black or blue smudges?
        
         | radicalbyte wrote:
         | I've tried everything under the sun and they all smudge.
         | 
         | Roting pencil it is.
        
         | neilfrndes wrote:
         | I found iroshizuku inks faster drying than the other brands
         | I've tried. Paper matters a lot too, I've experimented with
         | many and finally settled on Rhodia.
        
           | Telemakhos wrote:
           | I'm a fan of Parker's iroshizuku inks too. I don't know why,
           | but ink from a bottle seems to end up not drying inside the
           | pen like cartridges do.
        
         | lou1306 wrote:
         | I have good memories of the Parker ones. But honestly I started
         | using a (refillable) Pilot V5 in uni and never went back. It
         | only really smudges if you leave the pen in the same spot for
         | quite some time (very rare). But writing is a breeze and the
         | black is _actually_ black.
        
         | phosfox wrote:
         | I'm also left-handed and I find this uni jetstream to dry
         | pretty quickly: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-Standard-
         | Ballpoint-Pen...
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I have some Zebra SARASA dry X20 pens that dry instantly. Even
         | if I quickly scribble a bunch of circles then immediately wipe
         | my hand over it, the ink doesn't smear at all.
        
         | max51 wrote:
         | Zebra Sarasa are the best for avoiding smudges. Using a finer
         | point (eg. going from 0.5mm to 0.4mm) helps a lot.
        
       | dfee wrote:
       | Since we're all sounding off on preferred pens, the Pilot Precise
       | v5 is my go to (blue).
       | 
       | Seems it's laughable to some out there, but's been trusty for me!
       | 
       | https://pilotpen.us/Product?0=40&1=36&cid=271
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | There's nothing laughable about that! I adored those in math
         | classes where I was adding tiny notes around things. They were
         | my favorite for a while.
        
       | yumraj wrote:
       | I had Rotring 600 pencil - absolutely loved it, best I've ever
       | used.
       | 
       | But, its tip is very fragile so after it bent I got a Pentel
       | Orenz Nero , it's close enough, has retractable tip and lead auto
       | advances. It has become my current favorite.
       | 
       | Fun fact: Orenz Nero is a palindrome.
        
       | radicalbyte wrote:
       | I use a Rotring 600 3-in-1 and it's excellent. Although I prefer
       | the way Uni Kuru writes as it rotates the lead as you write
       | making everything very even. Having a very good pencil + two
       | coloured pens in your hand is just awesome.
        
       | bravesoul2 wrote:
       | Sell me this pen.
       | 
       | Ok you win.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | 11 years ago I bought a Faber Castell - Essentio Ballpoint Pen,
       | Carbon Black - #148888 [0], 22EUR at that time, and I absolutely
       | love it. I use it every day, just for writings something on post-
       | its or on labels.
       | 
       | One of the few grips that don't get sticky over the years, feels
       | good in the hand and looks nice. The clip is of metal which does
       | stick to magnets, so it's easy to attach to places like a monitor
       | or a lamp.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.fabercastell.com/products/essentio-ballpoint-
       | pen...
        
       | orlp wrote:
       | My favorite pens are the Frixxion pens. You can erase them, and
       | it actually works well.
        
         | Biganon wrote:
         | The ink from Frixxion pens disappears with time. I found out
         | the hard way when I went to re-read my MLaw notes a few years
         | after writing them.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | I've heard that they sometimes reappear when frozen, though
           | not sure if that applies to natural discolorations as well.
        
         | synecdoche wrote:
         | I like them too, but they get empty quickly. Only a fraction of
         | the cartridge is ink. The majority is plug gel and pressurised
         | air. Apparently that's required for it to function properly.
        
         | mamonoleechi wrote:
         | the erasing part is what frightens me ; putting your document
         | near a heating device erases your writings (the heat produced
         | by the friction of the eraser is what remove the ink when you
         | do it manually)
        
           | max51 wrote:
           | The ink gets its color back if you put the paper in the
           | freezer
        
       | fifticon wrote:
       | I am probably an uneducated cretin, but I have my preferences
       | anyway. I am in Denmark, and in Denmark, you can get "sharpie
       | pens" ( _) from the brand LYRECO, which I am very fond of,
       | particularly of their high quality and durability. There is a
       | personal story (for me at least..) regarding them. More than a
       | decade ago, I worked for many years for a specific company, which
       | had its good and bad sides. One major upside, was that their
       | employee equipment supply included LYRECO pens. So I basically
       | had free access to black /red/blue LYRECO pens. I am not a career
       | criminal as such, but simply through basic negligence,
       | occasionally one of those pens would wander in my pockets,
       | briefcases or binders, back to my residence, through no active
       | ill will, and be left lying around some random place. Mind you,
       | these are "cheap" sharpie pens, so I am probably not going to
       | jail anytime soon because of this. However you choose to
       | interpret or describe it, in the end some number of those pens,
       | larger than 1, but less than 10, ended up in random places in my
       | house/possession.
       | 
       | Up until now, this is not a particularly ravishing story. But
       | this is about to change (?). The issue is, those MF's won't stop
       | writing! They ended up in my possession by now more than 10 years
       | ago, but when I pull one of them out, they still write! So, a
       | sharpie-style (sort of) pen, that still writes well more than 10
       | years later!
       | 
       | Of course, they eventually dry out, when I exhaust them of ink
       | through use. But the 10 years of age has not dried them out. And
       | further, they appear very well provisioned with ink. This story
       | could end here, but there is another twist: Of course, I quite
       | love these pens, and I really would like my own supply. But here
       | is the kicker: They are not available to civilians/consumers :-(.
       | LYRECO only wants to trade with companies. So to be able to buy
       | my own, I would have to start or register a company. (In
       | particular, to fill out their online order forms, I have to fill
       | in mandatory fields with numeric codes only companies have). So,
       | at various times, I have filled out most of their online ordering
       | forms, and stared longingly at the empty fields I have no numbers
       | for. I have also, on other websites, started to fill out the
       | registration form to start my own one-man company. But never
       | completed it, both because I don't have a valid business case
       | other than "I'd really like some of those pens, man!", and
       | because having a registerered company requires you to follow
       | certain procedures, like filing specific tax forms regularly, IE
       | I could get into trouble and bother by making a "fake company".
       | The last issue is, that I also am paranoid, speculating that
       | maybe the late-stage capitalism monsters have arrived at LYRECO's
       | offices in the intervening 10 years, and whispered in some guy's
       | ear "You know.. we don't really have to make our pens THAT GOOD,
       | we could ship shit instead and charge the same!"
       | 
       | (_) I don't know what their actual type is. They are filt pens I
       | guess, with the 'filt' sticking out of what I assume to be a
       | steel tube.
        
         | fifticon wrote:
         | Note: I should probably call these 'felt tip pen' instead of
         | sharpies. They are writing implements, not for kids drawing.
        
       | mrob wrote:
       | I think the Rotring 500 pencils are better than the 600s. They're
       | very similar except instead of a full metal body, only the grip
       | is metal, and the rest plastic. This makes them lighter, and
       | moves the center of gravity closer to the tip, which makes them
       | easier to control.
        
       | alexalx666 wrote:
       | The grip part peels the skin off a bit, which paradoxically
       | results in low end UX, I wish they've put much looser grid there
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Lol, the entire functional part of the pen is in the refill,
       | except for the way you hold the pen.
       | 
       | I see no reason to go evangelical/Apple about it.
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | It really feels more like an ad.
        
         | bronlund wrote:
         | I was thinking the same thing. Why pay $20 - it's still a
         | Parker pen if you use a Parker refill. This has little to do
         | with the quality of writing and is more about bragging rights
         | and social signaling.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Like Don Norman says, attractive things work better.
         | 
         | And there's always a good reason to go evangelical/Apple about
         | it. A day you spend using tools that you love using is a better
         | day than one where you are using tools that bring you no joy.
         | 
         | As far as evangelizing goes, I'm much more interested in the
         | things you love than the things you hate.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Be careful to not love your tools more than the things you
           | create with them.
           | 
           | It's all in your mind. Simple tools are king. They allow you
           | to be creative anytime, not just when holding the "right"
           | tool.
        
             | munificent wrote:
             | Everyone has a complex relationship with their muse.
             | 
             | Fetishizing gear such that you use lack of the right gear
             | as an excuse to not create, or spend all your time
             | acquiring gear and not using it is definitely toxic.
             | 
             | But, also fetishizing minimalism such that you end up with
             | a process that is all self-flagelating toil and misery is
             | also toxic.
             | 
             | Everyone's gotta navigate the boundary between those
             | themselves.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | In any case, being evangelical is by definition toxic
               | behavior.
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | Still raging that a Rotring Quattro is the only pen which I have
       | lost (twice!) since I was a junior in high school over four
       | decades ago. Did finally manage to get a replacement for the
       | second one I lost, but if anyone ever sees a special edition
       | Rotring Quattro as sold by Levenger w/ rubber coating for sale,
       | let me know.
       | 
       | That said, these days I just carry a Skilcraft B3 Aviator as a
       | slimmer, more pocketable multi-pen option (though I'm on my
       | second, broke the clip of the first and haven't worked out how to
       | disassemble and replace it).
        
       | synecdoche wrote:
       | I used a Trio-pencil extensively during my educative years.
       | Beauty in writing and diagram drawing made it enjoyable and
       | helped to focus. I still have it. With a nice patina. Still
       | functioning.
        
       | asymmetric wrote:
       | Along these lines, does anyone have recommendations for a nice
       | (as in: overpriced and pretty, just like with OP) setup for
       | drawing/sketching diagrams, as a programmer might need to to do
       | map out a problem?
       | 
       | I'm thinking ~pencils~ (edit: felt-tip pens) in various colors,
       | and good paper.
        
         | _verandaguy wrote:
         | I can't speak for variously-coloured pencils, but I've had a
         | lot of success with a grid-ruled moleskine (I usually went for
         | hardcover, but after accidentally ordering a soft cover, I'm
         | warming up to it) and a Rotring 0.5mm mechanical pencil with
         | Pentel 2H leads.
         | 
         | For colours, I tend to use the Bic 4-in-one coloured pen (the
         | one with the blue bottom and white top), though I don't bring
         | that out often.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | I mentioned in another post, but you need to try the Uni
           | version of that Bic. I got a 3 color. I feels only slightly
           | larger than a regular pen, and writes vastly better than the
           | Bic. They're more expensive in absolutely terms but still
           | around $6.
        
             | _verandaguy wrote:
             | Do you have a shopping link or SKU? I'm having some trouble
             | finding it, but it sounds compelling!
        
               | CharlesW wrote:
               | They may be thinking of the "uni Jetstream 4&1 Metal
               | Edition" with black/red/bluegreen Jetstream ballpoints,
               | _plus_ a 0.5mm Mechanical Pencil:
               | https://www.amazon.com/uni-Jetstream-Ballpoint-
               | Mechanical-MS... or https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-
               | Jetstream-4-1-Metal-4-Color-0.5-...
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | Close. I got this one: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-
               | Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-Mult...
        
           | averynicepen wrote:
           | Why do you use 2H leads? I can't imagine writing in something
           | so light, even HB lead is too light for me.
        
         | averynicepen wrote:
         | I second the Uni Jetstream 4&1 Metal. It is my daily driver for
         | highlighting (color) and annotations (pencil), and the
         | Jetstream inks are very smooth.
         | 
         | For loose leaf paper that takes ink and markers well, use
         | "color copy digital" paper.
        
       | bicx wrote:
       | As a regular user of the Rotring 600, I recommend getting the
       | EasyFlow 9000 refill for super smooth writing. It's true that a
       | ballpoint pen is just a vehicle for the refill, but the Rotring
       | 600 is a pretty nice vehicle.
       | 
       | All that said, I reach for my Lamy Safari first. I also have a
       | Pilot Vanishing Point as my "grail pen", and while it's a cool
       | fountain pen, I don't love the feel on paper.
        
         | cosiiine wrote:
         | I too have gone with fountain pens as my every day pen. There's
         | zero waste with a bottle of ink and a cartridge. I find that
         | the variety of inks to be superior too.
        
           | bicx wrote:
           | True! I specifically use Noodler's Bernanke Black ink because
           | it's fast-drying. I'm left-handed, and I can easily smear ink
           | as I write if it doesn't dry quickly. Left-to-right writing
           | definitely favors right-handed people.
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | Oh, good grief, in that case you might want to start with a
             | Pilot _medium_ (roughly equivalent to a German no. 5
             | 'fine') and work _down_ from there. Without wishing to
             | invite contumely on the sometimes extremely fractious topic
             | that can be Noodler 's inks, I will say my experience is
             | that all the feed and nib throughput you can possibly give
             | them will never really be too much, especially in Japanese
             | pens.
        
         | throwanem wrote:
         | I don't like the EasyFlow 9000 very well, because even on
         | Clairefontaine paper it doesn't live up to its name. I have one
         | in an Ohto Rays for the retro vibe, but it's the pen I keep in
         | my bag to have something nice I won't mind giving away. Even
         | compared to Ohto's stock gel refill, the EasyFlow just writes
         | lousy.
         | 
         | Try moving one nib size up with the Vanishing Point, especially
         | if you're used to Western pens. Pilot's EF is sharp enough to
         | draw blood and you'll never really break it in; the F starts
         | out a little rough but wears in nicely. Too, the Vanishing
         | Point itself I found a little big and heavy for real comfort,
         | both in the hand and in a shirt pocket. The Decimo is
         | mechanically identical but smaller and lighter, enough so that
         | it's my go-to pen for almost every purpose, even sitting
         | alongside a Parker 51 Deluxe.
        
           | bicx wrote:
           | I'll check out the Decimo! And maybe I should just size up my
           | Vanishing Point nib. I've had it for a few years and it's
           | just too scratchy.
           | 
           | I have a few other fun (relatively) cheap fountain pens I
           | like: brass Kaweko Sport, Muji fountain pen, other random
           | finds. However, the downside of fountain pens if that if you
           | don't use them, you end up with a bunch of clogged nibs.
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | It's worth going deep more than broad, in my view, and
             | taking an intentionally instrumental interest in the tool;
             | fountain pens have never been a hobby for me, but rather a
             | means in support of my practices as a notetaker and
             | diarist, to the tune of 25 A5 volumes and about 4100 pages'
             | worth since early 2018. These days it takes me four or five
             | pages at once to notice any tiring or discomfort, and no
             | pen that insists on itself even slightly could hold up to
             | that kind of expectation. (Indeed I judge the Decimo more
             | favorably than the 51 precisely because the latter pen
             | tries my endurance much more, especially when I post its
             | overweight and unbalancing cap.) Think of it like
             | photography or high-end audio; here too we see the same
             | sharply unfavorable knee in the middle of the
             | price/performance curve, past which returns rapidly
             | diminish and one mostly ceases to impress the savvy with
             | anything beyond one's readiness to spend. (D850, not M10
             | Monochrom; HD6XX, not HD 800 S.)
             | 
             | I mean, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a $1000 handmade
             | Pilot Urushi but I surely also would not _buy_ one, not at
             | least unless I meant to try to make flirting with
             | ambassadors more than a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It 's a
             | beautiful pen and I'm sure it functions superlatively! Just
             | that it belongs in far finer and less hardly used hands
             | than mine. Good grief, I sometimes feel I make even my
             | Decimo look like a sewing needle, and that isn't really at
             | all a small pen, being by mechanical necessity about as
             | long as its thicker, heavier sibling. But it also by far is
             | the tool best fit to my hand of all the ones I've ever
             | tried, and that's what counts, right?
             | 
             | (One final note worth making: the Decimo and Vanishing
             | Point bodies are designed around the same nib unit, which I
             | believe originated with the initial "Capless" models in the
             | sixties. If you order a Decimo with the next nib size up
             | from what you have in your Vanishing Point, then, the nibs
             | and bodies will be fully cross-compatible!)
        
       | porridgeraisin wrote:
       | We have this "Nataraj Glow" ballpoint pen in India that you can
       | get for 1 INR a pop. I bought a whole lot of them (100s) during
       | school many years back and still use them. I lost pens regularly
       | but it really didn't matter since I'd go back home to 99 more.
       | Since school my pen usage has dropped significantly, but I still
       | find them lying around the house strewn about here and there for
       | when I need them. Love them, never needed anything else
       | personally. The best thing about them is that they don't dry out
       | or break or leak easily, so you can treat your pens with neglect,
       | disrespect and be generally forgetful, e.g, losing the cap,
       | putting it in the washing machine, etc, without paying for it in
       | any way.
       | 
       | They are thrice as expensive (3 INR) now, but that's still
       | throwaway money: https://www.amazon.in/Nataraj-Glow-Ball-Blue-
       | Pack/dp/B0DF7YC...
        
       | 0x_rs wrote:
       | There's no mention of this in the article, so be aware there's
       | multiple posts online about QC issues. Rotring quality has been
       | going down over the years, or their name outgrew the actual
       | quality of the product. Current generation of 600s especially
       | suffer from: cracking of the body (0, 1); but most importantly
       | for pens, the joint part that screws into the bottom and upper
       | part of the pen is extremely susceptible to wearing out the thin
       | and fragile upper part's threads, as they are two different
       | metals. So you should be prepared to exercise your warranty if
       | you purchase one.
       | 
       | 0.
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalpencils/comments/1fzacf9/...
       | 
       | 1.
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalpencils/comments/1439ru7/...
        
         | kps wrote:
         | The original Rotring is gone; Rotring was bought by Newell
         | Brands and is now just a label on copies made elsewhere. (They
         | did the same with Parker and Waterman.) 20th-century Rotring is
         | the real thing.
        
         | nabilhat wrote:
         | Oh, that's a very specific crack. This is an extrusion error.
         | The extrusion temperature is dropping too low while it's still
         | over the internal die. The thicker peaks cool more slowly than
         | the thinner flats, remaining at a weaker temperature longer,
         | and they're pulled apart by accumulating contraction.
         | 
         | These cracks usually aren't obvious until they meet a
         | conflicting load. For example, tapping threads up the end
         | without supporting the work correctly. It's not like this is a
         | load bearing part, they could get around this issue with a
         | little care. Holding the work in a hex collet during tapping is
         | cheap, adds efficiency, and would solve the problem. Sending
         | feedback to the extruder is free and usually effective. Or
         | maybe the product is moving well enough on brand equity that
         | it's not worth bothering.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | _> Rotring quality has been going down over the years, or their
         | name outgrew the actual quality of the product._
         | 
         | This story is so common that I wish there was an established
         | economic term for it. Something like "reputational arbitrage"
         | or perhaps "sentiment stickiness".
         | 
         | The basic idea is that a business can change its quality much
         | faster than its reputation changes. If the business rapidly
         | cuts costs and quality, their sales will reflect their
         | _reputed_ quality more than their actual quality for some
         | amount of time. That gives them a window of very high profits
         | where they can basically sell shit like it 's gold.
         | 
         | Eventually the reputation catches up with them, but it seems to
         | take a _very_ long time to do so, if ever, so it 's an
         | extremely tempting business model.
         | 
         | There is a related but different effect where a brand
         | establishes some level of cachet or meaningful emotional
         | attachment back when the product was good. The product tanks,
         | but people keep buying it _even while knowing it 's garbage_
         | just because of the emotional associations they have with the
         | historical product.
         | 
         | The line between these two effects can be blurry. I think Pyrex
         | leans more towards the former where people keep buying it
         | simply because they don't realize it kind of sucks. But Jeep is
         | the latter where it seems like everyone knows they'll spend
         | half the time in the shop but people just like Jeeps anyway.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _This story is so common that I wish there was an
           | established economic term for it._
           | 
           | I thought we'd collectively decided on "enshittification"? Or
           | is that different?
        
             | perks_12 wrote:
             | No, it should be the same. In software you can't really
             | lower quality. Instead, stuff your product with ads and
             | raise prices. In hardware you can lower production quality,
             | but you can't really put ads on it. The outcome is the
             | same.
        
         | edwinjm wrote:
         | I have such a pen and it's not my favorite. The grippy part
         | doesn't feel nice, it's too rough. Also, the top button makes
         | an abrasive, squeaky sound.
         | 
         | It's not made to be kind to humans.
        
       | throwaway_edge wrote:
       | There is a parker-style 0.5mm point refill from jetstream
       | (Uniball Jetstream SXR-600) that I used in my Rotring 600. Thin
       | point and dries instantly, very nice for taking quick notes.
       | However for the last year I have switched to a Jetstream Edge
       | 0,28 mm point pen which unfortunately does not fit the Rotring
       | 600.
        
       | nosrepa wrote:
       | I think I'm happy with my fisher space pens.
        
         | hungmung wrote:
         | I put a Space Pen refill into my Tactile Turn bolt action pen*
         | and I've been happy with it as a daily driver for about 5 years
         | now.
         | 
         | * If you want one that's got regular pen dimensions and will
         | fit in a breast pocket, get the slim model with the short
         | length.
        
       | jscheel wrote:
       | I've had a Lamy Swift (palladium) for about 8 years now. It's a
       | great pen with a unique clip mechanism. The Lamy rollerball
       | refills are really nice, but they don't have a fine point
       | version, so be ready for thick lines. I actually like the broad
       | tip though. I just checked the Lamy website, and it looks like
       | this pen has basically doubled in price since I bought it...
       | yikes.
        
       | Nickersf wrote:
       | I've had my Rotring 600 mechanical pencil for 10 years and I
       | might need to add the ballpoint variant soon. I see some people
       | mentioning that the new Rotrings aren't as good, which is a
       | shame.
        
       | mamonoleechi wrote:
       | If you're looking for a super cheap pen, check french BIC pens:
       | https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=bic+pen&ia=images&iax=image... ;
       | it's less than EUR0.30 ($0.35)
       | 
       | and don't stop on the price ; this pen is amazing,
       | 
       | it's actually one of the recommended tool, used by the super
       | talented and proefficient korean drawing artist Kim Jung Gi:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmqFbgKWoao (not sure he uses it
       | in this video) ; Kim is known to be able to draw anything from
       | memory
       | 
       | you can see him drawing with the BIC pen here:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_IDH1TzFs&t=1231s (video: Kim
       | Jung Gi - What Kind of Pen Do You Use?)
        
       | agentultra wrote:
       | I went with a Sarasa Grand body and JLV-0.5 Sarasa Dry refills.
       | Being left-handed I tend to smudge a lot. The fast-dry formula
       | Zebra came up with is perfect. I get thick, precise lines and no
       | smudging regardless of how fast I write.
       | 
       | Those refills might fit this barrel, might be worth checking out
       | if you're a lefty.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | I feel that modern manufacturing technology should have given us
       | this combination of a few simple metal parts at far less than $60
       | by now.
        
       | zeruch wrote:
       | I haven't bought a Rotring in decades (and the Rotring
       | rapidographs I do have still hold up), and wouldn't at this stage
       | given the decline in build quality since their buy-up from Newell
       | (although I hear their APAC product is subcontracted to Holbein,
       | which still has a great rep).
        
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