[HN Gopher] Rotring 600 Ballpoint Pen
___________________________________________________________________
Rotring 600 Ballpoint Pen
Author : Alupis
Score : 178 points
Date : 2025-07-25 18:35 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.shellshore.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.shellshore.com)
| treetalker wrote:
| I have several Rotring 600 (and 800) pencils. They're great and
| super grippy. If you have sweaty/slippery hands while writing,
| the Rotring 600 pen might be right up your alley.
|
| As pencils go, though, lately I've been fond of the Uni Shift 0.9
| mm. It's inexpensive; retracts for pocket carry; and I've never
| broken a lead with it. My only real complaint is that the eraser
| is minuscule and can't be reliably adjusted once the initial
| usable part is gone.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| Yawn. My Lamy Unic has a telescoping tip.
|
| https://unsharpen.com/pen/lamy-unic-ballpoint/
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Hah, that is indeed a fine looking writing instrument. I have
| the fountain pen from the same range. It has a similar hinged
| pocket clip and the machining is beautiful.
|
| I've found many interesting products via HN recommendations. Do
| you have any more interesting pens?
| pivic wrote:
| The next step could be Montblanc ballpoint pens, but that's a
| very different level where it comes to money; the writing
| experience is far beyond that of most ballpoint pens at a
| sub-100-USD range.
|
| Then there's _fountain pens_ , which is a whole new
| ballpark... If that interests yourself, I recommend these
| brands: Platinum, LAMY, Pelikan, Sailor, Montblanc, Pilot,
| and Nakaya, in no particular order.
| antonvs wrote:
| One advantage of the Rotring is that they haven't been
| discontinued, so you can actually buy one for a reasonable
| price.
| kstrauser wrote:
| That's a very nice pen and I get the appeal. However, I've
| recently discovered Uni Jetstream pens, and I don't see ever
| buying anything else. There are nicer pen bodies out there but
| I've never used a pen that does a better job of putting ink on
| paper, reliably, every time, without ever skipping in the
| slightest, not requiring any significant pressure, working on
| every kind of paper, and drying instantly. For me, it writes as
| nicely as my fountain pens but with all the convenience of a
| ballpoint. They're also about $3 each, depending where you buy
| them, so they're dirt cheap as far as nicely-working pens go.
| joshvm wrote:
| Jetstreams are great. Worth pointing out that you can buy
| refills in various form factors, including Parker style that'll
| fit the Rotring 600:
|
| https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-SXR-600-Jetstream-Ballpoint-Pen-...
|
| I also recommend the 800 mechanical pencil which has a very
| satisfying twist-retract tip.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Why? Why would you do this to me?
|
| _Sighs and busts out the credit card._
|
| Edit: it's on its way. Curse you.
| dillydogg wrote:
| The discovery of the jotter style refill led me down a path
| of trying many different inks for my Rotring 600. I ended up
| liking the OHTO ceramic rollerball quite well, partly for the
| ink, and also for the appearance of the nib, which I think
| suits the Rotring 600 nicely
| anthonyko wrote:
| Also a big fan of the Uniball, perviously was using Signo DXs,
| but have switched over to the Uniball One. I think that
| slightly thicker barrel helps with my handwriting. Also love
| the wire pocket clip.
|
| https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-One-F-Gel-Pen-0.5-mm-Faded-...
|
| I do like the Rotring pencils over the pens, but still prefer
| Uni as I feel less bad about losing a Uni Kuru as it is cheaper
| and still has knurled grip. Also has a fun rotating lead.
|
| https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Roulette-Mechanical-Pe...
| kstrauser wrote:
| Those are very nice! I like the Uni Jetstream RT:
| https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-Jetstream-RT-Ballpoint-
| Pen-...
|
| It feels really nice to write with. I also have a Kuru Toga I
| picked up at a neat little stationery store on vacation, but
| I was reminded when I got home that I don't care for writing
| with pencils. Should that change, there it is waiting for me.
| ryanchants wrote:
| I've picked up each color of the new metal body Kuru Toga,
| and they are an extra level of extravagance on an already
| perfect pencil: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Metal-
| Mechanical-Penci...
|
| Pigma Microns and Uniball One are my go-to pens. Previously
| it was Signo DXs as well. I think I prefer the barrel of the
| DX, but the wire clip and general appearance of the Uniball
| sold me.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| I agree that, even though the Uni Pens write well, they look a
| tad uglier than their counterparts. I like rOtring's heavier
| feel. I write with a fountain pen at most times when I'm at my
| desk but I always carry much simpler gel/ball pens. My
| daughters and I have settled on all sorts of rOtring and we are
| loving it.
| cobalt wrote:
| have you tried pentel EnerGel?
| kstrauser wrote:
| I haven't! Tell me what you think about it.
| jmhammond wrote:
| Imagine writing smoothly like butter as clouds part and
| angels sing.
|
| Unfortunately, it's not water safe, but it's great. My
| favorite feature is that it dries REALLY quickly, so I can
| left-hand without smudging.
| kstrauser wrote:
| The water safety is what nudged me off fountain pens and
| back to ballpoints. I use a bullet journal and don't want
| water to wash it all away.
|
| I know you can get fountain inks that are more resistant,
| but at that level of finickiness, I'd rather just carry a
| lower maintenance ballpoint, and the Jetstream is good
| enough that I don't miss my other lovely pens.
|
| PS: One time a reporter asked me what I thought of a
| particular food, and I described it as snacking on the
| wings of angels sent to earth for our dining pleasure,
| and they quoted me. My wife reminds me of this often.
|
| Edit: Here's the quote: https://www.removepaywall.com/sea
| rch?url=https://omaha.com/m...
| layer8 wrote:
| Not the GP but I have (BL77), and much prefer the Jetstream.
| youniverse wrote:
| +1 to EnerGel and the RSVP which are my two daily drivers.
| xeonmc wrote:
| You can buy a Uniball One-F (the premium body) and put
| Jetstream refills in there as a drop-in replacement.
|
| Note though that for longevity in engineering notebooks I don't
| like to use Jetstreams because of the yellowing seepage problem
| over time. But for everyday throwaway writing this setup is the
| ideal best of both worlds.
| ethersteeds wrote:
| Since you're kindly offering recommendations, what do you use
| for longevity in engineering notebooks?
| bayindirh wrote:
| If you want a low maintenance option, your best choice will
| be fade-proof pigment inked systems.
|
| From top of my head: - UniBall Eye /
| Vision Elite's Red, Blue, Black and Green (look for fade-
| proof / water-poof note, or SuperINK) - Sakura /
| Faber Castell / Rotring pigment inked, felt tip markers
| (Look for Archival Ink / Fade Resistant)
|
| If you prefer fountain pens: - Pelikan
| 4001 blue black (which is not sold in the US) -
| Rohrer & Klinger's Iron Gall inks (scribosa, ebony, etc.)
| - Noodler's "Bulletproof" series cellulose reactive inks.
| - Lamy Blue Black - Lamy Crystal Benitonite
| - Montblanc Permanent Blue / Permanent Black
|
| I'm sure there are many more, but these are the ones I know
| and had experience with.
|
| Always use an acid-free higher quality paper. Leuchtturm
| 1917, Rhodia, Yu-Sari, Mnemosyne comes to my mind. Do NOT
| use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They are not
| designed for fountain pens.
| sevensor wrote:
| > Do NOT use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They
| are not designed for fountain pens
|
| Or for hard use in general. Well over priced for the
| quality of the paper and bindings.
| bayindirh wrote:
| What bothers me is, their notebooks were fine when they
| first came to market. I still have their old, filled
| notebooks with great bindings and paper, with spotless
| ink retention, incl. fountain pens.
|
| They gradually reduced their quality, and created a
| "higher, more expensive tier" to offer their previous
| quality.
|
| Leuchtturm 1917 is a world apart when compared to today's
| Moleskine.
| xeonmc wrote:
| Unironically, my favourite is the standard Bic Cristal
| medium 1.0mm in black, but placed inside a Bic Round Stic
| body that I've reused for many years (I prefer a plain
| gripless thin body, since I use a gentle finger-leverage
| posture for applying pressure variations which I learned
| from the Palmer script method)
|
| Or, for gel-based, the Uniball Signo black ink is my second
| choice. I particularly like using the Signo GelStick 0.7mm
| which I can make line variations from hairlines to super
| broad strokes (again, the leverage-based force application
| is key for effortless pressure variation techniques)
| joshvm wrote:
| What's the timeline for this? My undergrad notes from ~15
| years ago have held up without obvious degradation. Those are
| mostly Jetstream inks on generic paper (some Oxford
| notebook). I swapped to fountain pens at some point when I
| discovered Noodler's. Bernanke Blue dries extremely fast.
| Though my TWSBIs from the time haven't held up well. They
| were fine when constantly used but they cracked in storage.
| xeonmc wrote:
| It somewhat depends on the humidity and temperature. I have
| not tested for controls, but I suspect it has to do with
| the low-viscosity oil component undergoing some process
| similar to paper chromatography where upon contact with
| moisture it separates from the pigment seeps to the back of
| the page.
| lelele wrote:
| What variant of Uni Jetstream pens? Because here are a few:
| SXN-150, SXN-210, etc. Thank you.
| lars_francke wrote:
| I've been using SXN-210 for over a decade and I love them.
| layer8 wrote:
| Same here. I tried a lot of different pens and these are
| still the best.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| I had a similar issue. I like the SXN-210, it has a removal
| cap and 1.0mm tip size.
|
| I got a box of 12 for a few bucks from Amazon, here is the
| link since it's hard to search by model,
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LD1NK
| kstrauser wrote:
| This is what I've been using: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-
| ball-Jetstream-RT-Ballpoint-Pen-...
|
| Although lately I've been using this multipen:
| https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-
| Mult...
|
| It's nice having 3 colors of ink available, and it's not that
| chunky blue thing we had in elementary school.
| agos wrote:
| the Uni Jetstream and Power Tank carried me through university.
| Nothing I've ever tried comes close.
| navigate8310 wrote:
| Oh if you like Jetstream, you'll love Uni Zento even more
| joecool1029 wrote:
| The rotring 800 0.5mm pencil has been a workhorse for me. My
| conditions were that it can handle being carried at all times and
| not stab me in the leg.
|
| It's even survived going through clothes washing machine. The one
| part I had some minor annoyance with is the ring below the
| control to adjust tip retraction would loosen up when carried
| awhile. I originally used a bit of superglue which came out in
| the wash. Now I've added some loctite so it will probably never
| loosen again. Other than some finish wearing off it's been great
| for years.
|
| Edit: oh I use pilot neox F graphite in it. Feels like writing
| with HB but it doesn't break as easy as I write with pretty heavy
| hands.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| I've been using the rotring 800 mechanical pencil for a while now
| ... until it randomly broke down (no, I did not treat I strangely
| in every way or form). I'm using the - much cheaper - Kuru Toga
| Advance now ... which rotates the graphite slighly whenever I
| lift the pencil from the paper, leading to a sharper tip and thus
| a sharper script.
|
| Plus, I am a lot less concerned with _losing_ a 5 dollar pencil
| as compared to a 50 dollar pencil.
| xz18r wrote:
| I have a 600 and 800 mechanical pencil. Love them, the feel can't
| be beat - only by the (significantly cheaper) Pentel Graphgear
| 1000.
| elromulous wrote:
| Love the rotring pencils.
|
| If you haven't already, give the Alvin Draft/Matic a try, imho
| it's up there along with them.
| bobek wrote:
| Love Pentel Graphear 1000, have multiple distributed throughout
| the house/workshop and backpacks :)
|
| The other I really like is UNI Kuru Toga, the plastic one
| (shrug). The twist mechanism actually works; it is slightly
| wider thus more comfortable (for me) for longer writing
| sessions.
| ykonstant wrote:
| The twist mechanism really does work, but unfortunately it is
| easy to damage (for me). I damaged two kuru togas in the span
| of 6 months, very frustrating. The twist still works, but it
| is very wonky.
| barrenko wrote:
| In my case - as my basic Kuru Toga died last week, the
| plastic of the casing just under the mechanism / just at
| the end of the body next to the rim broke down - because of
| the pressure i'm assuming, still a great pencil. I'm buying
| the advance one next.
| prpl wrote:
| Graphgear 500 is also excellent, though without a retractable
| tip. I think those who like the grip of a rotring would prefer
| it over the 1000.
| hanief wrote:
| I'd like to try this, but it is quite expensive compared to Zebra
| Sarasa or Pentel Energel. The metal body is interesting, I wonder
| how different is the weight and feel to pens with plastic body.
| neom wrote:
| I love the Zebra F-701. I'm also going to try the pen in this
| review, but wanted to give a recommendation to the F-701, as
| someone who hates to write, I like that pen.
| teamonkey wrote:
| I use one and it feels very heavy, almost unnaturally heavy,
| and indestructibly solid.
|
| Not at all uncomfortable once you get used to it, but the first
| time I pick it up after a few days my reaction is still always
| "wow that's heavy".
| spragl wrote:
| The difference in feel is significant.
|
| What is best is a personal preference. Some people like their
| pens to be as light as possible. Personally I far prefer the
| solid weight of my Rotring 600s. So I recommend that you try it
| out.
| chihuahua wrote:
| I had the fountain pen version of this in the 1980s. It seemed
| very sturdy, as if it was machined from a solid piece of metal.
| ktzar wrote:
| I still think that fountain pens are the pinnacle of writing
| stationery. One lasts generations and there's no consumables that
| need recycling or disposing of, if you use a rechargeable
| cartridge and buy ink bottles.
| neilfrndes wrote:
| I agree :)
|
| My daily driver is a Pilot Vanishing Point. It's a fountain pen
| with a form factor of a clickable ball point pen.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Vanishing Points are nice pens. I have an all matte black
| one. Also, pens tipping gets polished according to your
| handwriting over time, making it completely yours.
|
| I also like Lamys. Most of their pens look simple but they're
| work horses. Esp. Safari Umber.
|
| I'm a bit too deep in that rabbit hole. :)
| WillAdams wrote:
| I wish I could find a faceted VP --- still kicking myself for
| not buying one when I had a chance a couple of years ago.
| avian wrote:
| > One lasts generations
|
| Multiple Parker Vectors I had typically lasted a few years of
| use each before the plastic windings between the pen head and
| the holder wore out or broke.
|
| My Pilot Metropolitan did the same just a few months back.
|
| I still have the high-end pens my grandfather used that, while
| mechanically still sound, I am unable to get the ink flowing
| through them.
|
| I love writing with fountain pens, but long lasting they are
| not in my experience.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I have multiple pens which are a decade old, incl. a
| Metropolitan and Safari, and write like day one despite being
| used frequently.
|
| I also have a couple ones older than 50. They also work.
| Clogged ones generally need a good flush with a fountain pen
| flush.
| anu7df wrote:
| Also, if you do not want to spend on any specialized
| fountain pen flush solution, diluted windex works very
| well. From the smell I am willing to bet that most fountain
| pen cleaning solutions are exactly that.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Thanks! Unfortunately we don't have Windex here. Many of
| them here contain alcohol, and some others contain lemon
| juice to remove calc stains from glass. I wouldn't risk
| that, actually.
|
| I use J. Herbin's flush, which doesn't mind being used
| over and over. I filled an old Lamy 30ml ink bottle with
| one, and flush my pens with the same "liquid". From what
| I feel, it has some soap, some other surfactants, which
| it doesn't react with the rubber and seals inside the
| converters and pistons. Alcohol eats them from my
| experience.
|
| The bottle I have gained interesting properties. It's a
| green-turquoise hue, which becomes reddish if you shine
| strong light through it :)
|
| But it cleans like it's never used, which is nice.
| Telemakhos wrote:
| Have you tried ultrasonic cleaning with plain water? I
| got a cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and started
| cleaning my pens with it, and they work beautifully.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I have an ultrasonic cleaner too, but no pens were
| stubborn enough to necessitate a bath inside it.
|
| I generally "power flush" my pens with a syringe: Get a
| 50ml syringe, cut the sealed end of a cartridge, fill the
| syringe, mate the syringe, cartridge, pen, and push the
| water through. After a couple of times, the pen is
| thoroughly cleaned. Shake a couple of times, let it dry.
|
| On the other hand, many (if not most) inks have some
| detergents in it, and keep your pen clean and clog free
| as long as you use them. Older inks used Solv-X which was
| more effective but deemed carcinogen and banned in modern
| inks.
| criddell wrote:
| I have a Metropolitan and the only reason I don't use it is
| because the cap doesn't seal well and the ink evaporates
| quickly.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Yes, metropolitan is not a "super sealer" which you can
| leave for a period, then pick up and write. It demands to
| be used regularly. It also doesn't like to stand nib-up
| for long periods.
|
| Because of it, I generally EDC it with a good, low
| maintenance inks, and try to use it very regularly. As an
| EDC pen, the nib balances its quirks.
|
| Lamy 2000 and Pilot Custom 823 are two of the most
| patient pens I have ever used in that regard.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| I disagree. I used a Waterman Expert for a long time. It
| conked out when someone I loaned it to dropped it. I switched
| to a Noodlers Ahab (which has a flexible nib) so you can do a
| little bit of flourishing for headings etc. I've used it for
| a long time and still do. Recently, I switched to a broad
| tipped Lamy Safari (which was a birthday gift).
|
| My main problem is that most papers can't really handle the
| inkflow from fountain pens anymore and since the place I come
| from is somewhat humid, the papers quickly start to bleed
| ink. So, my more common instrument is a Pentel graphgear
| mechanical pencil.
|
| I do calligraphy as a hobby so I have separate arsenal of dip
| pens and nibs but those are not for daily use.
| DrewADesign wrote:
| I've also got a noodler ahab that's been going strong for
| years- vegetable resin body, plastic everything else except
| the metal nib, clip and ring around the opening of the cap.
| triknomeister wrote:
| Parker Vectors were cheap Parkers in my experience. They were
| like the 40 dollar nikes that you used to get. More money was
| spent in the brand than the quality.
|
| I got a Parker Sonnet as a prize in a competition. It is
| still good, even though I rarely use it nowadays.
| sudhirb wrote:
| I've had an ancient Parker 51 for a good decade or so now
| which I use almost daily, that originally belonged to my
| great-grandmother.
|
| I'd expect there to be a reasonable amount of variation in
| how long these pens last due to differences in usage,
| machining tolerances, ink types and materials - though mine
| has done very well considering how many times I've chucked
| it into a bag, dropped it on hard floors, etc. (I've
| probably just been lucky so far).
| tom_ wrote:
| The stainless steel Parker Vector is much harder-wearing and
| available for under PS15. Same nib unit as the plastic ones.
|
| (I found them particularly good when used with the washable
| ink cartridges, never drying out even after long periods of
| disuse. The permanent ink isn't as good in this respect and
| the pens need more regular use.)
| kps wrote:
| Parker, Waterman, Rotring were all bought by Newell
| (Rubbermaid) and gutted. You have to go back to 20th-century
| production to get the real thing.
| jgrodziski wrote:
| Yes definitely agree, I own the Rotring 600 and 800 pencil and
| they are fantastic, as already said the ballpoint version is
| dependant on the refill. The construction is sturdy and they
| feel very robust and heavy. But... I've recently transitioned
| to Pilot Capless fountain pen and it's night and day with the
| write feeling: https://www.pilotpen.eu/our-products/capless/
| with ink bottle refill. The nib size is important, I found the
| medium too large and landed on the fine nib size.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| They're also horrible to use if you're left-handed and writing
| English or any other left-to-right language.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| Ah yes. I'm right handed and I've suffered from this when
| trying RTL scripts (Arabic) for calligraphy. It's a challenge
| to keep your hand from blotting what you've written.
| bayindirh wrote:
| As a lefty, I disagree, but I don't "overwrite". I hold pen
| like a righty.
| avian wrote:
| As a counter example, I'm left handed and write hundreds of
| pages per year in a left-to-right language and don't have
| issues with smudging lines with my palm.
|
| Maybe the inks I use dry fast enough (Parker Quink or Pelikan
| 4001) or it's the way I learned to write back in school.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I'd argue hand technique is more important than inks. I
| have wet pens with slower drying inks, and I write a
| similar amount without any smudges.
| triknomeister wrote:
| I'm right handed and used to smudge ink, don't ask me how.
| Only now, with my notebooks at 90 degree angle can I write
| properly without smudging.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| You're probably doing the lefty-handed-curl. If you adopt a
| really weird writing position you can write without
| smudges. Depending on your body-type it's either easy and
| obvious or very uncomfortable. I'm in the latter group so I
| just use a pencil.
| Theodores wrote:
| Euch. That lefty-handed-curl is a solution proposed by
| the right handed world. The correct way to write as a
| left handed person is to turn the page ninety degrees.
| hydrogen7800 wrote:
| My left-handed father always turned the page 90 deg to
| the right when given something to sign, with the left
| side of the line up. He caught hell for that in catholic
| school.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > The correct way to write as a left handed person is to
| turn the page ninety degrees.
|
| That is such a genius solution!
| Dilettante_ wrote:
| Or play it like DaVinci and write mirrored, right-to-
| left.
| avian wrote:
| I looked up some pictures of this lefty-handed curl and I
| suddenly feel immense gratitude towards the people from
| my childhood that taught me how to use my left hand to
| write in a practical and comfortable manner.
| mk_stjames wrote:
| There was this article posted here on HN about the
| geodemography of left handedness in the US, and all sorts of
| discussion about past culture of eschewing LH'ded children in
| schools and such...
|
| and I was surprised that no one brought up the very real
| downsides of being left handed in a left-to-right writing
| system region of the world (which is most of it). Most
| comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism and
| straight up malice with regard to students being forced a
| hand in writing early in school and it seemed no one brought
| up the very real practical reasons for preferring to write
| right handed, especially with ink.
|
| And I say this as someone who is completely ambidextrous when
| writing but does not do the 'hook hand' left hand to write,
| and thus I usually write right-handed with pens and pencils.
| I have a left handed friend who does write that way and it
| just screams RSI/Carpal Tunnel to me.
| nelox wrote:
| I wonder if those issues similarly affect the right handers
| among the 2 billon or so users of right-to-left writing
| systems?
| voidUpdate wrote:
| Is there a significant difference in left-handedness in
| RTL countries? It seems strange to me that an RTL writing
| system would develop in a vast majority right handed
| environment, for the same reasons that left handed people
| have issues with LTR systems
| boston_clone wrote:
| > Most comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism
| and straight up malice
|
| That's because this is why it was done. My parochial school
| in the 1990s did not allow me to use my left had because of
| the associations with evil, and one need not look further
| than the latin word for left to realize how entrenched this
| mindset was. To extrapolate that into a beneficial practice
| for writing styles seems like an unfounded stretch.
| lozenge wrote:
| Making left handed people write right handed doesn't make
| them right handed.
| christophilus wrote:
| Or if you occasionally spill coffee or any other liquid ever.
| I sometimes hand-write recipes. Fountain pens + sloppy
| kitchen meal prep are a bad combo.
| _Wintermute wrote:
| You can get some very permanent water-proof inks. Platinum
| Carbon black is my favourite.
| lb1lf wrote:
| De Atramentis, too, has a range of permanent inks which
| are quite fast-drying, too.
|
| Happy customer for years.
| sevensor wrote:
| Platinum Carbon Black is a wonderful ink. It seems to
| work very well in cheap fountain pens with flow issues.
| It's highly resistant to coffee spills and looks ok on
| mediocre paper. Only drawback is cleaning it up; it
| cleans up like used motor oil.
| mrob wrote:
| You can get fountain pen inks that chemically react with
| cellulose for complete water resistance (there may still be
| a little smudging from unreacted ink washing off the
| paper). Noodler's Black is a famous example. I like this
| kind of ink, although it's not without its drawbacks,
| because cotton/rayon/other plant fiber clothing is also
| mostly cellulose and will be stained just as permanently.
| specialist wrote:
| > _inks that chemically react with cellulose_
|
| I had no idea. Great tip; thanks.
|
| I'm looking for alternatives to lamination for posting
| outdoor flyers & signs.
|
| I just received some (alleged) weatherproof copier paper
| to experiment with.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ3UNWL
| bikenaga wrote:
| I've used only Noodler's Bulletproof Black for years (in
| a TWSBI Eco piston-fill) - it works great, and I realized
| if I was going to take the time to write extensive notes
| it was worth having some protection against water.
|
| I previously used Waterman Black - it flows really
| smoothly, but it isn't waterproof. Also, it doesn't seem
| quite as dark as the Noodler's.
| Foobar8568 wrote:
| You need a fast dry ink and good paper. But yes with usual
| supplies, it can be problematic. My kid enjoys writing with
| fountain pain but her furnitures are given by school and they
| hand out a lot of printedpaper to fill..So no luck.
| vel0city wrote:
| The problem I find is fountain pens are awesome in the
| dragging motion but really don't do well with a pushing
| motion. Writing left handed in a LTR world means you're
| constantly pushing the nib while a right hander drags the
| nib.
| jbd0 wrote:
| You can always write in reverse like Leonardo DaVinci did.
| deltarholamda wrote:
| Perhaps a silly question, but would something like a Mahl
| stick help with left-handed writing? Painters and old-school
| draftsmen use them to keep their grubby mitts off the
| surface.
|
| I suppose in today's public school you wouldn't be allowed
| one because it could conceivably be used as a weapon, but it
| would seem to be helpful.
| hydrogen7800 wrote:
| >Mahl stick
|
| Thank you for using its name. I first saw it on TV showing
| someone hand painting a design on a car (probably a Rolls
| Royce on Top Gear) and thought it was brilliant in its
| simplicity, but didnt know its name.
| deltarholamda wrote:
| I just made one with a dowel and a big superball, but
| I've seen one that they put a skateboard wheel (with
| bearings) on the end so it rolls.
| LaffertyDev wrote:
| Left handed person here. Writing is already a chore, tying
| up both hands just to use a fountain pen without smearing
| seems to cross an effort/reward boundary.
|
| Maybe useful if you were really committed to the tool. I've
| been casually interested in fountain pens for a while but
| the downsides seem to stack up whenever I actually look
| into it.
| deltarholamda wrote:
| You don't have to hold the stick, generally. For
| painting, yes, but you wouldn't have to when writing. It
| would just hold your hand up a little bit.
|
| Maybe try a dowel with a glob of clay or something on the
| end and see?
|
| The biggest crime to lefties is the fold-away half-size
| writing desk you see in lecture halls.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| The Wikipedia entry is "Maulstick":
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulstick
| pjmlp wrote:
| My go to choice for several decades since high school, even got
| to collect some throught the years, mostly Parker.
|
| However they are also dangerous, beware of hand movents when
| holding one, otherwise there is quite some cleaning to do, and
| even document rewriting.
| tiniuclx wrote:
| My first full time software engineering paycheque went towards
| a Lamy 2000. I've been using it for many years now and it's
| never let me down.
| someothherguyy wrote:
| That probably costs more than I ever spent on all writing
| utensils I've ever owned.
|
| What makes this cost that much (other than they are owned by
| uniball)? The material certainly isn't worth that much? And
| the function would be replicated in the market for less? So,
| what makes it not some luxury bullshit?
| sudhirb wrote:
| I think the budget play is to get a cheap refillable
| fountain pen and some cheap fountain pen ink (I bought some
| Diamine bottled ink about 10 years ago and I've still got
| plenty left).
|
| More expensive fountain pens are indeed luxury products -
| replicas are often available on places like aliexpress.
|
| I think it probably feels like bullshit if you don't think
| you'll gain any satisfaction or derive any pleasure from
| the act of writing or the aesthetics of your writing
| instrument.
| tiniuclx wrote:
| I'd been using the much cheaper Lamy Al Star (admittedly
| also a step up from the plastic Lamy Safari) for a while,
| and I really liked the feel of them. To be honest, I kind
| of just wanted a nicer version of that, and the 2000 did
| not disappoint.
|
| The nib feels much, smoother. Mine is fairly wet without
| excessively showing through low quality paper. The
| refilling mechanism is a lot nicer than the cartridge-pump
| I'd been using on the Al Star.
|
| Is it better? Yeah, but it's not 10x better than the Al
| Star which is what the price would suggest. So it is
| definitely a luxury product from that point of view.
| Alupis wrote:
| Ever buy yourself something nice that you use often? A nice
| belt, a nice comb, or a nice razor? A nice kitchen knife
| arguably does the same job as a cheap Walmart special.
|
| Sometimes it's nice to splurge on high quality items -
| especially when you use them every day, like a pen. It's a
| little thing, but it brings pleasure every time you use it.
|
| Not everything is about cost efficiency. You'll never
| regret buying quality.
| dist-epoch wrote:
| I vaguely remember the writing tip getting blunt after a while
| and needing change.
| WillAdams wrote:
| That happens on inexpensive nibs which lack iridium (or some
| similar metal/alloy) tipping.
|
| A tipped fountain pen will be incredibly resistant to wear
| --- while I did significantly wear down the inexpensive
| Platignum (British brand, but despite the name untipped
| steel) fountain pen I had when I was younger after a couple
| of decades, when I finally switched to using more expensive
| pens with nibs for tipping, haven't had to replace a nib
| since.
| crinkly wrote:
| Oh hell no. I used fountain pens, good ones, for nearly 20
| years. They leak, blob all over the place, are difficult to
| refill, require cleaning, end up with servicing problems when
| you really need to write immediately. Also difficult to draw
| complex diagrams with. Absolute self inflicted pain and misery.
|
| I use Muji gel pens now. None of those problems and you can
| take the cartridges back to them and they recycle them. And the
| pen bodies themselves last functionally forever.
| michaelmior wrote:
| > there's no consumables that need recycling or disposing of,
| if you use a rechargeable cartridge and buy ink bottles.
|
| Genuine question: don't you need to dispose or recycle the ink
| bottles?
| Havoc wrote:
| They're usually glass and last years. So maybe Gp isn't
| counting that as consumable
| quatonion wrote:
| Totally agree. I used a fountain pen all the way through school
| and university.
|
| My all time favourite was the Parker 25 in stainless steel,
| with a medium nib and blue-black ink. Sometimes I would go for
| purple if I was feeling a bit raunchy.
|
| I know a lot of people liked the 105, and I had one, and a
| bunch of others, but there is something about the utilitarian
| functionality of the 25 that I really have a soft spot for.
|
| I think there was a year or two where I may have flirted with
| ballpens, but not seriously.
|
| Also even used Rotring and Staedtler Mars technical drawing
| pens on and off for regular writing. That was always fun in the
| middle of a lecture with ink everywhere.
|
| It's such a shame I don't get to write on paper that much these
| days. No real need. Such a beautiful experience though.
| WillAdams wrote:
| Well, there are the bottles ink comes in --- I left behind a
| drawerful of empty Sheaffer bottles at a previous job which
| I've always regretted.
|
| Agreed, except I have _not_ been able to get my Aurora Hastil
| to write/fill reliably for a couple of years now, despite
| cleaning, and I can't send it in to the manufacturer since the
| tip was ground to a chisel italic by Gretta Lostkemper (who
| used to oversee custom grinding at Sheaffer). Guess I need to
| get an ultrasonic cleaner and try that....
| criddell wrote:
| Fountain pens are great but that's only half the equation. You
| need to consider paper as well.
|
| Because I'm usually using low quality paper, I mostly use
| ballpoint pens so that I can write on both sides of the page.
| Fountain pens can feel scratchy on cheap paper and the ink
| bleeds through.
| hangonhn wrote:
| Fountain pen requires some skill to write well. It's amazing in
| the hands of those who knows calligraphy and just creates extra
| smudges for those who are more used to normal pens.
| kulahan wrote:
| It takes no time at all to figure out if your only real goal
| is "I wanna be able to use this as deftly as a regular pen".
| Really no more difficult than knowing how not to smudge
| marker by closing a book while it's still wet, for instance.
| LoveMortuus wrote:
| I've only had bad experiences with Parker pens and refills, they
| just don't flow and fill the line as nicely and constantly as
| Pilot Hi-Tec and other Pilot pens.
|
| I paid more than 20EUR for a Parker pen with refills and it was
| worse than a 3EUR Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint (which is my current
| favourite, I have it in black, red, green, blue and pink
| colours).
| ykonstant wrote:
| Parker refills are a nightmare. I have tested both the Indian
| brand and the French brand of QuinkFlow several times, and they
| are all horrible. Atrocious. I got some Monteverde, Pelikan and
| Schneier refills and they work well.
|
| If you can get a compatible Monteverde, it is great. Schneier
| is also very nice, but hybrid. Pelikan has the pelikan blue
| style, you either love it or hate it. QuinkFlow... ok, whoever
| says they are fine, send me that legendary "fine" refill I keep
| hearing about.
| iosjunkie wrote:
| Ive had good luck with 'Monteverde Capless Gel Ballpoint'
| refills for my Rotring 600s.
| selcuka wrote:
| Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint has been my favourite for the last ~20
| years. I'm not a heavy user, so one pen lasts for years as an
| added bonus.
| max51 wrote:
| Most of the best pens refills are made by japanese companies
| (eg. Pilot, Zebra, Uni-ball, etc.) and Parker style is
| nonexistant in that country. If you look at any "top XX best
| pens" lists online, the vast majority is not avaible in Parker.
| And when they are, they usually have fewer color and size
| options.
|
| It's very disapointing to see brand new nice pen designs that
| only support Parker refills.
| TheSilva wrote:
| I am going to derail the conversation from the pen and into the
| refills.
|
| As a left-handed that refuses to twist their hand to avoid
| smudging everything: what refills brands offer the best dry time
| to avoid black or blue smudges?
| radicalbyte wrote:
| I've tried everything under the sun and they all smudge.
|
| Roting pencil it is.
| neilfrndes wrote:
| I found iroshizuku inks faster drying than the other brands
| I've tried. Paper matters a lot too, I've experimented with
| many and finally settled on Rhodia.
| Telemakhos wrote:
| I'm a fan of Parker's iroshizuku inks too. I don't know why,
| but ink from a bottle seems to end up not drying inside the
| pen like cartridges do.
| lou1306 wrote:
| I have good memories of the Parker ones. But honestly I started
| using a (refillable) Pilot V5 in uni and never went back. It
| only really smudges if you leave the pen in the same spot for
| quite some time (very rare). But writing is a breeze and the
| black is _actually_ black.
| phosfox wrote:
| I'm also left-handed and I find this uni jetstream to dry
| pretty quickly: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-Standard-
| Ballpoint-Pen...
| criddell wrote:
| I have some Zebra SARASA dry X20 pens that dry instantly. Even
| if I quickly scribble a bunch of circles then immediately wipe
| my hand over it, the ink doesn't smear at all.
| max51 wrote:
| Zebra Sarasa are the best for avoiding smudges. Using a finer
| point (eg. going from 0.5mm to 0.4mm) helps a lot.
| dfee wrote:
| Since we're all sounding off on preferred pens, the Pilot Precise
| v5 is my go to (blue).
|
| Seems it's laughable to some out there, but's been trusty for me!
|
| https://pilotpen.us/Product?0=40&1=36&cid=271
| kstrauser wrote:
| There's nothing laughable about that! I adored those in math
| classes where I was adding tiny notes around things. They were
| my favorite for a while.
| yumraj wrote:
| I had Rotring 600 pencil - absolutely loved it, best I've ever
| used.
|
| But, its tip is very fragile so after it bent I got a Pentel
| Orenz Nero , it's close enough, has retractable tip and lead auto
| advances. It has become my current favorite.
|
| Fun fact: Orenz Nero is a palindrome.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| I use a Rotring 600 3-in-1 and it's excellent. Although I prefer
| the way Uni Kuru writes as it rotates the lead as you write
| making everything very even. Having a very good pencil + two
| coloured pens in your hand is just awesome.
| bravesoul2 wrote:
| Sell me this pen.
|
| Ok you win.
| qwertox wrote:
| 11 years ago I bought a Faber Castell - Essentio Ballpoint Pen,
| Carbon Black - #148888 [0], 22EUR at that time, and I absolutely
| love it. I use it every day, just for writings something on post-
| its or on labels.
|
| One of the few grips that don't get sticky over the years, feels
| good in the hand and looks nice. The clip is of metal which does
| stick to magnets, so it's easy to attach to places like a monitor
| or a lamp.
|
| [0] https://www.fabercastell.com/products/essentio-ballpoint-
| pen...
| orlp wrote:
| My favorite pens are the Frixxion pens. You can erase them, and
| it actually works well.
| Biganon wrote:
| The ink from Frixxion pens disappears with time. I found out
| the hard way when I went to re-read my MLaw notes a few years
| after writing them.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I've heard that they sometimes reappear when frozen, though
| not sure if that applies to natural discolorations as well.
| synecdoche wrote:
| I like them too, but they get empty quickly. Only a fraction of
| the cartridge is ink. The majority is plug gel and pressurised
| air. Apparently that's required for it to function properly.
| mamonoleechi wrote:
| the erasing part is what frightens me ; putting your document
| near a heating device erases your writings (the heat produced
| by the friction of the eraser is what remove the ink when you
| do it manually)
| max51 wrote:
| The ink gets its color back if you put the paper in the
| freezer
| fifticon wrote:
| I am probably an uneducated cretin, but I have my preferences
| anyway. I am in Denmark, and in Denmark, you can get "sharpie
| pens" ( _) from the brand LYRECO, which I am very fond of,
| particularly of their high quality and durability. There is a
| personal story (for me at least..) regarding them. More than a
| decade ago, I worked for many years for a specific company, which
| had its good and bad sides. One major upside, was that their
| employee equipment supply included LYRECO pens. So I basically
| had free access to black /red/blue LYRECO pens. I am not a career
| criminal as such, but simply through basic negligence,
| occasionally one of those pens would wander in my pockets,
| briefcases or binders, back to my residence, through no active
| ill will, and be left lying around some random place. Mind you,
| these are "cheap" sharpie pens, so I am probably not going to
| jail anytime soon because of this. However you choose to
| interpret or describe it, in the end some number of those pens,
| larger than 1, but less than 10, ended up in random places in my
| house/possession.
|
| Up until now, this is not a particularly ravishing story. But
| this is about to change (?). The issue is, those MF's won't stop
| writing! They ended up in my possession by now more than 10 years
| ago, but when I pull one of them out, they still write! So, a
| sharpie-style (sort of) pen, that still writes well more than 10
| years later!
|
| Of course, they eventually dry out, when I exhaust them of ink
| through use. But the 10 years of age has not dried them out. And
| further, they appear very well provisioned with ink. This story
| could end here, but there is another twist: Of course, I quite
| love these pens, and I really would like my own supply. But here
| is the kicker: They are not available to civilians/consumers :-(.
| LYRECO only wants to trade with companies. So to be able to buy
| my own, I would have to start or register a company. (In
| particular, to fill out their online order forms, I have to fill
| in mandatory fields with numeric codes only companies have). So,
| at various times, I have filled out most of their online ordering
| forms, and stared longingly at the empty fields I have no numbers
| for. I have also, on other websites, started to fill out the
| registration form to start my own one-man company. But never
| completed it, both because I don't have a valid business case
| other than "I'd really like some of those pens, man!", and
| because having a registerered company requires you to follow
| certain procedures, like filing specific tax forms regularly, IE
| I could get into trouble and bother by making a "fake company".
| The last issue is, that I also am paranoid, speculating that
| maybe the late-stage capitalism monsters have arrived at LYRECO's
| offices in the intervening 10 years, and whispered in some guy's
| ear "You know.. we don't really have to make our pens THAT GOOD,
| we could ship shit instead and charge the same!"
|
| (_) I don't know what their actual type is. They are filt pens I
| guess, with the 'filt' sticking out of what I assume to be a
| steel tube.
| fifticon wrote:
| Note: I should probably call these 'felt tip pen' instead of
| sharpies. They are writing implements, not for kids drawing.
| mrob wrote:
| I think the Rotring 500 pencils are better than the 600s. They're
| very similar except instead of a full metal body, only the grip
| is metal, and the rest plastic. This makes them lighter, and
| moves the center of gravity closer to the tip, which makes them
| easier to control.
| alexalx666 wrote:
| The grip part peels the skin off a bit, which paradoxically
| results in low end UX, I wish they've put much looser grid there
| amelius wrote:
| Lol, the entire functional part of the pen is in the refill,
| except for the way you hold the pen.
|
| I see no reason to go evangelical/Apple about it.
| MisterTea wrote:
| It really feels more like an ad.
| bronlund wrote:
| I was thinking the same thing. Why pay $20 - it's still a
| Parker pen if you use a Parker refill. This has little to do
| with the quality of writing and is more about bragging rights
| and social signaling.
| criddell wrote:
| Like Don Norman says, attractive things work better.
|
| And there's always a good reason to go evangelical/Apple about
| it. A day you spend using tools that you love using is a better
| day than one where you are using tools that bring you no joy.
|
| As far as evangelizing goes, I'm much more interested in the
| things you love than the things you hate.
| amelius wrote:
| Be careful to not love your tools more than the things you
| create with them.
|
| It's all in your mind. Simple tools are king. They allow you
| to be creative anytime, not just when holding the "right"
| tool.
| munificent wrote:
| Everyone has a complex relationship with their muse.
|
| Fetishizing gear such that you use lack of the right gear
| as an excuse to not create, or spend all your time
| acquiring gear and not using it is definitely toxic.
|
| But, also fetishizing minimalism such that you end up with
| a process that is all self-flagelating toil and misery is
| also toxic.
|
| Everyone's gotta navigate the boundary between those
| themselves.
| amelius wrote:
| In any case, being evangelical is by definition toxic
| behavior.
| WillAdams wrote:
| Still raging that a Rotring Quattro is the only pen which I have
| lost (twice!) since I was a junior in high school over four
| decades ago. Did finally manage to get a replacement for the
| second one I lost, but if anyone ever sees a special edition
| Rotring Quattro as sold by Levenger w/ rubber coating for sale,
| let me know.
|
| That said, these days I just carry a Skilcraft B3 Aviator as a
| slimmer, more pocketable multi-pen option (though I'm on my
| second, broke the clip of the first and haven't worked out how to
| disassemble and replace it).
| synecdoche wrote:
| I used a Trio-pencil extensively during my educative years.
| Beauty in writing and diagram drawing made it enjoyable and
| helped to focus. I still have it. With a nice patina. Still
| functioning.
| asymmetric wrote:
| Along these lines, does anyone have recommendations for a nice
| (as in: overpriced and pretty, just like with OP) setup for
| drawing/sketching diagrams, as a programmer might need to to do
| map out a problem?
|
| I'm thinking ~pencils~ (edit: felt-tip pens) in various colors,
| and good paper.
| _verandaguy wrote:
| I can't speak for variously-coloured pencils, but I've had a
| lot of success with a grid-ruled moleskine (I usually went for
| hardcover, but after accidentally ordering a soft cover, I'm
| warming up to it) and a Rotring 0.5mm mechanical pencil with
| Pentel 2H leads.
|
| For colours, I tend to use the Bic 4-in-one coloured pen (the
| one with the blue bottom and white top), though I don't bring
| that out often.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I mentioned in another post, but you need to try the Uni
| version of that Bic. I got a 3 color. I feels only slightly
| larger than a regular pen, and writes vastly better than the
| Bic. They're more expensive in absolutely terms but still
| around $6.
| _verandaguy wrote:
| Do you have a shopping link or SKU? I'm having some trouble
| finding it, but it sounds compelling!
| CharlesW wrote:
| They may be thinking of the "uni Jetstream 4&1 Metal
| Edition" with black/red/bluegreen Jetstream ballpoints,
| _plus_ a 0.5mm Mechanical Pencil:
| https://www.amazon.com/uni-Jetstream-Ballpoint-
| Mechanical-MS... or https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-
| Jetstream-4-1-Metal-4-Color-0.5-...
| kstrauser wrote:
| Close. I got this one: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-
| Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-Mult...
| averynicepen wrote:
| Why do you use 2H leads? I can't imagine writing in something
| so light, even HB lead is too light for me.
| averynicepen wrote:
| I second the Uni Jetstream 4&1 Metal. It is my daily driver for
| highlighting (color) and annotations (pencil), and the
| Jetstream inks are very smooth.
|
| For loose leaf paper that takes ink and markers well, use
| "color copy digital" paper.
| bicx wrote:
| As a regular user of the Rotring 600, I recommend getting the
| EasyFlow 9000 refill for super smooth writing. It's true that a
| ballpoint pen is just a vehicle for the refill, but the Rotring
| 600 is a pretty nice vehicle.
|
| All that said, I reach for my Lamy Safari first. I also have a
| Pilot Vanishing Point as my "grail pen", and while it's a cool
| fountain pen, I don't love the feel on paper.
| cosiiine wrote:
| I too have gone with fountain pens as my every day pen. There's
| zero waste with a bottle of ink and a cartridge. I find that
| the variety of inks to be superior too.
| bicx wrote:
| True! I specifically use Noodler's Bernanke Black ink because
| it's fast-drying. I'm left-handed, and I can easily smear ink
| as I write if it doesn't dry quickly. Left-to-right writing
| definitely favors right-handed people.
| throwanem wrote:
| Oh, good grief, in that case you might want to start with a
| Pilot _medium_ (roughly equivalent to a German no. 5
| 'fine') and work _down_ from there. Without wishing to
| invite contumely on the sometimes extremely fractious topic
| that can be Noodler 's inks, I will say my experience is
| that all the feed and nib throughput you can possibly give
| them will never really be too much, especially in Japanese
| pens.
| throwanem wrote:
| I don't like the EasyFlow 9000 very well, because even on
| Clairefontaine paper it doesn't live up to its name. I have one
| in an Ohto Rays for the retro vibe, but it's the pen I keep in
| my bag to have something nice I won't mind giving away. Even
| compared to Ohto's stock gel refill, the EasyFlow just writes
| lousy.
|
| Try moving one nib size up with the Vanishing Point, especially
| if you're used to Western pens. Pilot's EF is sharp enough to
| draw blood and you'll never really break it in; the F starts
| out a little rough but wears in nicely. Too, the Vanishing
| Point itself I found a little big and heavy for real comfort,
| both in the hand and in a shirt pocket. The Decimo is
| mechanically identical but smaller and lighter, enough so that
| it's my go-to pen for almost every purpose, even sitting
| alongside a Parker 51 Deluxe.
| bicx wrote:
| I'll check out the Decimo! And maybe I should just size up my
| Vanishing Point nib. I've had it for a few years and it's
| just too scratchy.
|
| I have a few other fun (relatively) cheap fountain pens I
| like: brass Kaweko Sport, Muji fountain pen, other random
| finds. However, the downside of fountain pens if that if you
| don't use them, you end up with a bunch of clogged nibs.
| throwanem wrote:
| It's worth going deep more than broad, in my view, and
| taking an intentionally instrumental interest in the tool;
| fountain pens have never been a hobby for me, but rather a
| means in support of my practices as a notetaker and
| diarist, to the tune of 25 A5 volumes and about 4100 pages'
| worth since early 2018. These days it takes me four or five
| pages at once to notice any tiring or discomfort, and no
| pen that insists on itself even slightly could hold up to
| that kind of expectation. (Indeed I judge the Decimo more
| favorably than the 51 precisely because the latter pen
| tries my endurance much more, especially when I post its
| overweight and unbalancing cap.) Think of it like
| photography or high-end audio; here too we see the same
| sharply unfavorable knee in the middle of the
| price/performance curve, past which returns rapidly
| diminish and one mostly ceases to impress the savvy with
| anything beyond one's readiness to spend. (D850, not M10
| Monochrom; HD6XX, not HD 800 S.)
|
| I mean, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a $1000 handmade
| Pilot Urushi but I surely also would not _buy_ one, not at
| least unless I meant to try to make flirting with
| ambassadors more than a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It 's a
| beautiful pen and I'm sure it functions superlatively! Just
| that it belongs in far finer and less hardly used hands
| than mine. Good grief, I sometimes feel I make even my
| Decimo look like a sewing needle, and that isn't really at
| all a small pen, being by mechanical necessity about as
| long as its thicker, heavier sibling. But it also by far is
| the tool best fit to my hand of all the ones I've ever
| tried, and that's what counts, right?
|
| (One final note worth making: the Decimo and Vanishing
| Point bodies are designed around the same nib unit, which I
| believe originated with the initial "Capless" models in the
| sixties. If you order a Decimo with the next nib size up
| from what you have in your Vanishing Point, then, the nibs
| and bodies will be fully cross-compatible!)
| porridgeraisin wrote:
| We have this "Nataraj Glow" ballpoint pen in India that you can
| get for 1 INR a pop. I bought a whole lot of them (100s) during
| school many years back and still use them. I lost pens regularly
| but it really didn't matter since I'd go back home to 99 more.
| Since school my pen usage has dropped significantly, but I still
| find them lying around the house strewn about here and there for
| when I need them. Love them, never needed anything else
| personally. The best thing about them is that they don't dry out
| or break or leak easily, so you can treat your pens with neglect,
| disrespect and be generally forgetful, e.g, losing the cap,
| putting it in the washing machine, etc, without paying for it in
| any way.
|
| They are thrice as expensive (3 INR) now, but that's still
| throwaway money: https://www.amazon.in/Nataraj-Glow-Ball-Blue-
| Pack/dp/B0DF7YC...
| 0x_rs wrote:
| There's no mention of this in the article, so be aware there's
| multiple posts online about QC issues. Rotring quality has been
| going down over the years, or their name outgrew the actual
| quality of the product. Current generation of 600s especially
| suffer from: cracking of the body (0, 1); but most importantly
| for pens, the joint part that screws into the bottom and upper
| part of the pen is extremely susceptible to wearing out the thin
| and fragile upper part's threads, as they are two different
| metals. So you should be prepared to exercise your warranty if
| you purchase one.
|
| 0.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalpencils/comments/1fzacf9/...
|
| 1.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalpencils/comments/1439ru7/...
| kps wrote:
| The original Rotring is gone; Rotring was bought by Newell
| Brands and is now just a label on copies made elsewhere. (They
| did the same with Parker and Waterman.) 20th-century Rotring is
| the real thing.
| nabilhat wrote:
| Oh, that's a very specific crack. This is an extrusion error.
| The extrusion temperature is dropping too low while it's still
| over the internal die. The thicker peaks cool more slowly than
| the thinner flats, remaining at a weaker temperature longer,
| and they're pulled apart by accumulating contraction.
|
| These cracks usually aren't obvious until they meet a
| conflicting load. For example, tapping threads up the end
| without supporting the work correctly. It's not like this is a
| load bearing part, they could get around this issue with a
| little care. Holding the work in a hex collet during tapping is
| cheap, adds efficiency, and would solve the problem. Sending
| feedback to the extruder is free and usually effective. Or
| maybe the product is moving well enough on brand equity that
| it's not worth bothering.
| munificent wrote:
| _> Rotring quality has been going down over the years, or their
| name outgrew the actual quality of the product._
|
| This story is so common that I wish there was an established
| economic term for it. Something like "reputational arbitrage"
| or perhaps "sentiment stickiness".
|
| The basic idea is that a business can change its quality much
| faster than its reputation changes. If the business rapidly
| cuts costs and quality, their sales will reflect their
| _reputed_ quality more than their actual quality for some
| amount of time. That gives them a window of very high profits
| where they can basically sell shit like it 's gold.
|
| Eventually the reputation catches up with them, but it seems to
| take a _very_ long time to do so, if ever, so it 's an
| extremely tempting business model.
|
| There is a related but different effect where a brand
| establishes some level of cachet or meaningful emotional
| attachment back when the product was good. The product tanks,
| but people keep buying it _even while knowing it 's garbage_
| just because of the emotional associations they have with the
| historical product.
|
| The line between these two effects can be blurry. I think Pyrex
| leans more towards the former where people keep buying it
| simply because they don't realize it kind of sucks. But Jeep is
| the latter where it seems like everyone knows they'll spend
| half the time in the shop but people just like Jeeps anyway.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _This story is so common that I wish there was an
| established economic term for it._
|
| I thought we'd collectively decided on "enshittification"? Or
| is that different?
| perks_12 wrote:
| No, it should be the same. In software you can't really
| lower quality. Instead, stuff your product with ads and
| raise prices. In hardware you can lower production quality,
| but you can't really put ads on it. The outcome is the
| same.
| edwinjm wrote:
| I have such a pen and it's not my favorite. The grippy part
| doesn't feel nice, it's too rough. Also, the top button makes
| an abrasive, squeaky sound.
|
| It's not made to be kind to humans.
| throwaway_edge wrote:
| There is a parker-style 0.5mm point refill from jetstream
| (Uniball Jetstream SXR-600) that I used in my Rotring 600. Thin
| point and dries instantly, very nice for taking quick notes.
| However for the last year I have switched to a Jetstream Edge
| 0,28 mm point pen which unfortunately does not fit the Rotring
| 600.
| nosrepa wrote:
| I think I'm happy with my fisher space pens.
| hungmung wrote:
| I put a Space Pen refill into my Tactile Turn bolt action pen*
| and I've been happy with it as a daily driver for about 5 years
| now.
|
| * If you want one that's got regular pen dimensions and will
| fit in a breast pocket, get the slim model with the short
| length.
| jscheel wrote:
| I've had a Lamy Swift (palladium) for about 8 years now. It's a
| great pen with a unique clip mechanism. The Lamy rollerball
| refills are really nice, but they don't have a fine point
| version, so be ready for thick lines. I actually like the broad
| tip though. I just checked the Lamy website, and it looks like
| this pen has basically doubled in price since I bought it...
| yikes.
| Nickersf wrote:
| I've had my Rotring 600 mechanical pencil for 10 years and I
| might need to add the ballpoint variant soon. I see some people
| mentioning that the new Rotrings aren't as good, which is a
| shame.
| mamonoleechi wrote:
| If you're looking for a super cheap pen, check french BIC pens:
| https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=bic+pen&ia=images&iax=image... ;
| it's less than EUR0.30 ($0.35)
|
| and don't stop on the price ; this pen is amazing,
|
| it's actually one of the recommended tool, used by the super
| talented and proefficient korean drawing artist Kim Jung Gi:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmqFbgKWoao (not sure he uses it
| in this video) ; Kim is known to be able to draw anything from
| memory
|
| you can see him drawing with the BIC pen here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_IDH1TzFs&t=1231s (video: Kim
| Jung Gi - What Kind of Pen Do You Use?)
| agentultra wrote:
| I went with a Sarasa Grand body and JLV-0.5 Sarasa Dry refills.
| Being left-handed I tend to smudge a lot. The fast-dry formula
| Zebra came up with is perfect. I get thick, precise lines and no
| smudging regardless of how fast I write.
|
| Those refills might fit this barrel, might be worth checking out
| if you're a lefty.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I feel that modern manufacturing technology should have given us
| this combination of a few simple metal parts at far less than $60
| by now.
| zeruch wrote:
| I haven't bought a Rotring in decades (and the Rotring
| rapidographs I do have still hold up), and wouldn't at this stage
| given the decline in build quality since their buy-up from Newell
| (although I hear their APAC product is subcontracted to Holbein,
| which still has a great rep).
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