[HN Gopher] Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave ...
___________________________________________________________________
Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for
ARM64 Laptops
Author : MarcusE1W
Score : 264 points
Date : 2025-07-27 07:01 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.linaro.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.linaro.org)
| shenki0 wrote:
| The Microsoft Surface Laptop 7 machines have no touchpad or
| touchscreen support. Listing them as "supported" requires a
| creative interpretation of the term.
| dvtkrlbs wrote:
| They don't say everything works they say kernel works on those
| laptops.
| LtWorf wrote:
| I'd say "boots" would be more appropriate.
| ekianjo wrote:
| between booting and being able to everything except
| supporting non existent proprietary drivers for touchpad
| and screen from Microsoft is quite a difference.
| thanatos519 wrote:
| Works for me - those are the first things I turn off!
| politelemon wrote:
| Looking forward to this, thanks.
| teo_zero wrote:
| > the current Linux Kernel 6.15 already supports many commercial
| laptops: Lenovo Yoga 7x, Lenovo ThinkPad T14s Gen 6, Dell XPS 13,
| Asus Vivobook S15, HP Omnibook x14, Microsoft Surface 13/15
|
| Has anybody had any first-hand experience with Linux on such
| laptops?
| intothemild wrote:
| As someone with a Yoga 7x .. I'm still waiting. It's not fully
| supported.
|
| The issue is drivers for peripherals and wifi.
|
| I think the GPU is now supported.
|
| It's been a long wait, mostly due to Qualcomm as I understand.
| TechDebtDevin wrote:
| You can however, put Ubunutu no problem on the Ryzen
| versions.
|
| https://github.com/jrandiny/yoga-slim7-ubuntu
| betaby wrote:
| I was down-voted by saying back then (snapdragon x elite
| release date) that Qualcomm has no priority in making Linux a
| first class platform. Qualcomm does what Qualcomm does. I
| won't purchase a laptop which has no known Linux support.
| E39M5S62 wrote:
| I run Linux on a Thinkpad T13s, with the previous generation of
| Snapdragon CPUs. It runs great - quick, excellent battery life
| and very stable. Installation is a bit obnoxious, but nothing a
| modestly seasoned Linux veteran can't handle.
| MarcusE1W wrote:
| Completely agree with this. Ubuntu installs from the standard
| ARM installer on the X13s and openSuse Tumbleweed needs a
| litte help at the start but then runs great.
|
| It looks like the Snapdragon X gets quite a lot of support
| now and end of the year or earlier next year it should be
| quite useable for most.
|
| When the Snapdragon X laptops came out they where all over
| 1000$ and I completely understand that the number of Linux
| kernel enthusiasts to set things up would initially be
| limited.
|
| Used prices come down now and that will also help.
| kcb wrote:
| I have one of those too. Found a nice 32gb spec one on eBay
| for a good price. Last I tried Ubuntu the main issues were
| the speakers were very quiet and usb-c display out didn't
| work.
| E39M5S62 wrote:
| Alt DP works fine, the current limitation is that it can't
| do 4k@60hz because it's using only two DP lanes due to a
| driver limitation.
| diabllicseagull wrote:
| did you mean Thinkpad x13s?
| E39M5S62 wrote:
| Yes, thanks for the correction. It was really early when I
| replied!
| st3fan wrote:
| When you say "excellent battery life" .. can you be more
| specific?
| jraph wrote:
| Flawless on a ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 9 and on an HP EliteBook
| G6.
| ekianjo wrote:
| They are talking about Snapdragon equipped laptops.
| jraph wrote:
| Whoops, indeed, sorry!
| denysvitali wrote:
| Surface Pro X here, the support is meh (see
| https://github.com/linux-surface/surface-pro-x/issues/7) but
| good enough to use it casually as a second computer.
|
| In my case the biggest drawback is not being able to use an
| external screen via HDMI and the sound support (although you
| can workaround that with BT). Let's not talk about widevine, I
| managed to eventually get it to work but it was very painful.
|
| If we get full audio support and solve some of the widevine
| issues, this can easily become a daily driver for when I'm
| traveling or giving presentations.
| t-3 wrote:
| I have an XPS 13. It does run linux, but so does every other
| laptop with an x86 chipset. It's horrible in pretty much every
| other way though. The battery, GPU fan, and left USB-C port
| failed successively shortly after the warranty was up.
| pentamassiv wrote:
| If you are thinking about getting a Tuxedo, I suggest to get
| something else. I got one because they promised fwupd support,
| upstreamed drivers and maybe coreboot support. None of that is
| working even years afterwards. People from the kernel got so fed
| up with them, they considered blacklisting them [1]. That seemed
| like a wakeup call as they now at least started with upstreaming
| drivers.
|
| If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to
| use their terrible Electron application. It's so bad, volunteers
| created an alternative. Even they are getting tired of Tuxedo
| though [2]
|
| The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my
| screen and they gave me a quote of ~200EUR+ to repair it. I'm
| sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are
| available and no instructions.
|
| I hope they improve, but for now I'm disillusioned and would not
| buy it again.
|
| [1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/TUXEDO-Drivers-Taint-Patches
|
| [2] https://aaronerhardt.github.io/blog/posts/tuxedo_rs_update/
| timeon wrote:
| > If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need
| to use their terrible Electron application.
|
| That is unfortunate. I hoped they were more like System76.
| juliangmp wrote:
| Having to use their specific drivers is a bit annoying, but I
| honestly prefer that over drivers that dont work or dont
| exist at all. I really hope they can bring their stuff
| upstream at one point, but I can't deny that using their
| laptops hasn't been good experiences.
| TheJCDenton wrote:
| Very informative, thank you. I was about to buy one of their
| products but this made me pause.
|
| What you think would be the alternative in Europe ?
| pentamassiv wrote:
| Unfortunately I don't know about a good alternative from
| Europe. I'd probably get a Framework if my device stops
| working. They seem to work hard at upstreaming things and use
| Linux standards. They also connected with the GNOME
| foundation, so there might be some collaboration in the
| future
| mariusor wrote:
| Basically the same things happened to my tuxedo also. With
| the addition of having to change batteries once a year,
| because it would drop to half it's factory charge, which
| wasn't really sufficient. I also gave up on them when they
| wanted so much money for a screen change (which died after
| about 3-4 years).
|
| I've replaced it with the new framework 13 inch, which so far
| works well _, but I 've only had it for 4-5 months. (_ well,
| but not perfect, because the new AMD AI CPU has issues with
| suspend on linux)
| ekianjo wrote:
| at least with framework you know exactly how much the
| replacement parts will cost ahead of time.
| wyldfire wrote:
| > issues with suspend on linux
|
| Oh? I'd seriously considered buying the 13 w/this AMD CPU
| and I guess I naively thought it would be ideal. What sort
| of problems with suspend are you seeing?
| mariusor wrote:
| I haven't spent time investigating if my specific setup
| is the problem, or an actual bug in the drivers, but
| after I resume from suspend, the btrfs root fs is in a
| read-only state.
|
| The only solution is to reboot/shutdown, but it takes a
| long time and there are some scary fs checks running.
| Luckily no lost data so far. Currently I'm just shutting
| down the machine every time because it the boot times are
| quite fast.
| oDot wrote:
| I have a Zephyrus G16 with a 370 and can confirm it would
| fail to sleep on Linux 6.12.
|
| Upgraded to 6.15 and sleep seems to work well now.
|
| I use NixOS
| danieldk wrote:
| I have a T14 Gen 5 AMD. No issues with suspend/resume at
| all. NixOS, kernel 6.12. The Ryzen AI APUs are fairly
| new, so it may take a few months for things to settle.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| That's a shame, I got a 13 w/ the previous non-AI AMD 7
| 7840U in April, and it's been rock-solid running Pop_OS. I
| wondered at the time if I should have waited for the newer
| CPUs...
| kfl wrote:
| There is StarLab https://starlabs.systems although they don't
| make ARM laptops if that's what you are asking for.
| abound wrote:
| While StarLabs has shipped products before, I'd be careful
| with them. That StarFighter laptop was supposed to ship
| years ago, and I don't think any have been delivered yet.
| Here's a Reddit thread [1] from three years ago saying
| delivery would be in a few months.
|
| [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/yjuahx/
| star_...
| dangus wrote:
| Don't bother with these. In my eyes the gold standard for
| Linux laptops is Framework or Lenovo.
| trelane wrote:
| To me, it's System76.
|
| Clearly Framework is not supporting Linux if there are
| issues with suspend.
| homebrewer wrote:
| https://entroware.com from the UK gets mentioned here and
| there, but I _think_ they don 't do any software development
| at all, and only repackage OEM laptops.
| lhl wrote:
| Slimbook (Spanish OEM) basically sells the same ODM designs
| as Tuxedo and is an option. They have a few cobranded (KDE
| etc) versions that contribute to the development teams.
|
| Otherwise at this point I believe the Framework laptops have
| pretty solid Linux support and is a good option if you're ok
| w/ so-so battery life.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| NovaCustom had a discussion on here recently and uses dasharo
| coreboot.
| atoav wrote:
| I am running a tuxedo since 6 years and I am still happy with
| it. Had to use their support once to replace the cooling
| assembly because one of the fan bearings started to ger noisy
| after 5 years of 24/7 use, the replacement was 100 Euros for
| the whole copper+heatpipe+two fan assembly. The machine is
| still outperforming many other machines that exist today and
| the sceeen is one of the best I have seen (OLED).
|
| Software side was smooth sailing as well.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Two of the reasons I eventually gave up on Desktop Linux, were
| virtualization getting good enough for just keep using Windows
| instead, back in the day with VMware Workstation and Virtual
| Box, nowadays with WSL (macOS is anyway UNIX enough for me to
| care otherwise).
|
| And exactly the same experience with OEM vendors that were
| supposed to be Linux friendly, on my case the whole netbooks
| effort, where graphics, video decoding and wlan never worked as
| well on Windows, even though they were supposed to.
|
| Dell XPS also had their issues for something that was supposed
| to be Canonical certified as running GNU/Linux properly.
|
| It seems Android, ChromeOS and WebOS are the only ones where
| OEMs actually care to make it work properly, naturally the
| cloud and IoT vendors with their custom distros as well.
| sofixa wrote:
| I ran a Dell XPS (not even the Canonical certified version)
| for a few years at a past job, and everything worked pretty
| well under Ubuntu. But it's always a matter of which exact
| hardware combination has mainstream support, and if the
| version you get doesn't e.g. have a shitty WiFi chip with bad
| support.
| npodbielski wrote:
| Yes. This is why I rather check Linux support od chips in a
| machine that I am planning to buy. Not that much work but
| you will not get unpleasant surprise when Wi-Fi do not
| work.
| pimeys wrote:
| I've been running Linux on my laptop and on my workstation
| since the 90's. Still using it as my main driver. Fedora
| Kinoite is my distro of choice, and Lenovo AMD Thinkpad T14s
| the laptop. Everything works flawless, and it's still pretty
| fast even though it's two years old already.
|
| And I do not miss at all the Microsoft bullsh*t on tracking
| and advertising. Or the general sluggishness of Windows.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Can attest - Thinkpads and Linux go great together. Used
| for 2 years, then was forced into Windows crap by corporate
| policy. No, WSL is not the same.
| ThatMedicIsASpy wrote:
| 10+ years of T440s here. Most of the time a Fedora base.
| Both batteries at 50% health but the only thing that
| really is noticeable over the years is the missing
| hardware for todays video codecs.
| danieldk wrote:
| I used to be quite cynical about these posts. I used Linux
| as my main desktop from 1994-2007 and switched to Mac then.
| I would periodically try on laptops Linux again, but there
| were always things broken in bad ways.
|
| Early this year I bought a ThinkPad T14 Gen 5 AMD. In
| contrast to when I had a T14 Gen 1 AMD early 2020s,
| everything just works. All the hardware works,
| suspend/resume works, all the hardware comes up after a
| resume, etc.
|
| Lately I have been using my ThinkPad much more than my
| MacBook Pro. NixOS is a superpower to me and having NixOS
| on a laptop is living the dream.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I've used it from probably... 2010 or so, to now. I
| recall some stuff like WiFi being vaguely annoying in the
| beginning. But, things seemed to get pretty good post
| 2015.
|
| You were here for the really hard stuff, and missed the
| beginning of the good times, I think. Unlucky! Oh well.
| Welcome back!
| danieldk wrote:
| I did use a Ryzen Linux desktop from ~2018-2020 besides a
| MacBook, but Apple Silicon was so insanely good when it
| was introduced that I went back fully back to Mac on the
| desktop. But Ryzen mobile APUs have been catching up.
|
| I have also used headless Linux machines throughout my
| Mac vacation :).
|
| With regards to the hard stuff. 1994-2007 was from my
| 12th to my 25th, basically overlapping with when I was a
| high school/university student. So, plenty of time and
| not enough money for a Mac or some commercial UNIX
| system. That period was also super exciting, especially
| up till the dotcom crash a lot of people thought that
| Linux was going to take over the desktop (anyone remember
| Corel Linux and even WordPerfect on Linux?). Linux did
| take over, but in different ways than we imagined, the
| server was kinda expected after the mid-nineties, but
| Android not.
| jbeard4 wrote:
| > NixOS is a superpower to me
|
| Can you expand on this? Just curious what is the main
| value-add you are getting from NixOS in particular?
| nextos wrote:
| NixOS gives you the ability to define your system
| declaratively, upgrade or tweak without fear of breaking
| anything, and the ability to launch shells with arbitrary
| and well defined sets of dependencies.
| danieldk wrote:
| - Fully declarative. I can bring up a system in 5-10
| minutes (depending on internet speed) and the system
| configuration is exactly as any other system.
|
| - Great modules for programs/services in NixOS and home
| manager. So I typically do not have to figure out what
| configuration format something uses. Most common options
| are exposed as module options and for options that are
| not exposed, it's often possible to write the
| configuration in Nix (or worst case a string that gets
| added to the configuration). I can access the
| documentation of all modules with a simple _man
| configuration.nix_ or `man home-configuration.nix`.
|
| - I can override arbitrary packages with custom build
| options, etc. I don't have to maintain separate
| .spec/rules files or anything. I can just put a
| somePackage.override/overrideAttrs somewhere in my system
| configuration and the package customizations are there
| with my system configuration and always get built with
| the system.
|
| - Packaging something to hook it up in my system is low-
| effort. nixpkgs is the largest distribution package set
| (according to repology). But sometimes something is
| missing or I want to add some of my own projects as
| packages, unless it's some insanely bad proprietary
| application, I can do it in a few minutes.
|
| - Atomic updates/rollbacks.
|
| - Ad-hoc or project-specific development shells (though
| that is more Nix than NixOS).
|
| I know that the learning curve can be steep, but once you
| really get Nix and NixOS, it's kinda like being the
| master of the universe, erm, I mean your systems.
| bombela wrote:
| I don't think anybody ever sold nixos that good to me
| before.
|
| I might try it again. Last time I really did not like
| that any minute config change would take 15s to apply.
|
| But the biggest issue for me, is that right now I have a
| good enough solution, that allows for config file update
| from applications. I have a small git repo, with one
| shell script, that symlinks config files, and even
| generates a few. And so backing up the latest config
| changes from KDE, freecad, etc, is a git add & commit
| away. I have another shell script to setup the base
| Ubuntu the way I want. And my data is replicated via
| syncthing.
| pjmlp wrote:
| I know, there are dozens on Linux forums, every time I was
| searching for workarounds.
|
| Also it isn't as if I haven't subscribed to Linux Journal
| during its whole lifetime, or LWN, or even used to write M$
| on email signatures and Usenet messages, for that matter.
|
| Signed someone that knows Linux since kernel 1.0.9, yet has
| better things to do than making it work.
| trelane wrote:
| This os why I only buy laptops that ship with Linux, with
| support you can call to get broken things fixed.
|
| Slapping Linux on a Windows box is a mug's game
| pentamassiv wrote:
| Before the Tuxedo, I used an old Lenovo. I didn't check
| before if it works well with Linux, but it worked flawlessly.
| I am so used to devices working well and not having to think
| much about drivers. That's probably why I am disappointed by
| Tuxedo. They market themselves to Linux users but until
| recently they did not emphasize upstreaming and embracing
| standards.
| danieldk wrote:
| What I love about Lenovo besides PSRef and all the
| maintenance/repair manuals (with part numbers, so that you
| know what to get if something needs to be replaced), etc.
| is that they often certify laptops for Linux.
|
| They also seem to really care about supporting Linux. E.g.
| WWAN modems need proprietrary unlock procedures these days
| thanks to the FCC [1]. Most vendors would shrug and say
| 'sorry, we only support Windows', Lenovo has a repo with
| Linux support for all the modems that ThinkPads support
| (you can only use supported modems, because the FCC
| apparently only certifies laptop/modem combinations, not
| individual modems):
|
| https://github.com/lenovo/lenovo-wwan-unlock
|
| [1] https://modemmanager.org/docs/modemmanager/fcc-unlock/
| wolvesechoes wrote:
| Funny to read replies to your comment. One can be sure that
| on HN for every single critical comment about Linux viability
| one gets multiple responses claiming that Linux is perfect
| and without issues.
|
| Inb4: I have used Linux exclusively from 2019 to 2024. It
| wasn't that bad but it wasn't flawless. At least once per
| month I met some issue that took few hours to solve.
| Currently on Win11, zero problems (yes, I am using pirated
| LTSC IoT version, how did you know?)
| bee_rider wrote:
| In this case it turns out they got... one comment that was
| strongly pro-Linux, one that mentioned they didn't have
| trouble but only as an aside before going on to discuss
| Tuxedo, and one that was softly positive but acknowledged
| the trouble of checking hardware beforehand.
| danieldk wrote:
| No system is without issues. We used ThunderBolt docks that
| worked perfectly with macOS, until one major release they
| became a hell to use because Apple broke something (which
| manifested as a display not coming back after resume,
| requiring several plugs/unplugs).
|
| As everyone knows, Windows has its own fair share of
| issues. The first is that it is not a Unix :).
| cevn wrote:
| Lol. I'm unplugging and re plugging my HDMI display for
| like 3 years now. Thanks Apple for being so stupid that
| you can't even get external displays to work properly
| tom89999 wrote:
| There are parts in the industry that are not meant for end
| users. I service copiers and printers. The fixing unit is not
| meant to be installed by a handyman, thats why you dont get to
| buy it. You can cook yourself, it works with 230V.... Toner and
| drum unit are sold to customers.
| simonjgreen wrote:
| Respectfully, nothing about that applies to a laptop. This
| has been well proven over the years, that with good
| forethought and making parts available laptops can be highly
| repairable.
| tom89999 wrote:
| The display unit is nothing an enduser should replace. Does
| every user know how to handle the delicate display and how
| to carefully install the LVDS cable? In most modern cars
| you cant replace the windscreen with cameras, heating wires
| in your backyard without the calibration software. You can
| try it, but you will fail.
| bombela wrote:
| So what you are saying, is that it is all designed to be
| impossible to fix without special equipment and exquisite
| motor skills?
| MSFT_Edging wrote:
| Displays are absolutely end user repairable if the end
| user has experience. Allowing an end user to perform
| repairs shouldn't mean the repair should be doable by
| every single end-user.
|
| If that was the case we wouldn't be allowed to replace AA
| batteries.
| theodric wrote:
| 230VAC mains electrical fittings are openly sold in DIY shops
| in every country in the European Union without mass-cookings
| occurring as a result. This reeks of utterly unearned
| elitism.
| tom89999 wrote:
| I do that work almost every day. What if the untalented
| handyman crunches a live cable and the metallic frame is on
| fire? You can repair how and what you want, its your house
| and children.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >You can repair how and what you want, its your house and
| children.
|
| They cannot.
|
| >The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue
| with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200EUR+ to
| repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less,
| but no parts are available and no instructions.
| bpfrh wrote:
| If the metallic frame is on fire and the circuit breaker
| doesn't trigger when you turn on, then the manufacturer
| has some explaining to do.
| danieldk wrote:
| Yep. I think pretty much every youngster gets some basic
| education (besides getting years of physics in high-
| school): disarm the group/fuse, double check with a power
| tester, make sure you are not causing any shorts. I don't
| know anyone who calls an electrician for replacing a light
| fitting, a power outlet, or light switches.
|
| Besides that some European countries have required for
| decades that new houses/apartment have central residual-
| current circuit breakers for the whole house (unlike the US
| where as far as I understand they are only required in
| certain areas and are often in the socket and not
| centralized).
| bpfrh wrote:
| Screw in a light bulb and you work with 230V and we still
| allow people to screw in their own light bulbs
| tom89999 wrote:
| What are the 5 safety guidelines?
| bpfrh wrote:
| Don't know, I just make sure there is no power.
| margalabargala wrote:
| "230VAC is dangerous, therefore it makes sense you cannot
| purchase a 12VDC laptop screen to install yourself"
| tom89999 wrote:
| Ever heard of the old displays with an inverter that
| produced around 700V? Can zap grandpa into the coffin...
| THats why they did not sell it to customers.
| bombela wrote:
| Everybody obviously works on a powered on laptop, with
| fully charged capacitors. With those capacitor delivering
| at leat 100mA to your heart for good measure.
|
| It's like when people work on their car, they do it at
| highway speed, using a nacelle precariously balanced
| under the car, with the front wheels propped up on
| dollies for access.
| margalabargala wrote:
| And I'm sure that continuing that tradition into the
| laptop LCD era is similarly due to safety and not profit.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > Ever heard of the old displays with an inverter that
| produced around 700V?
|
| ...Are we talking about CRTs from like 20 years ago? What
| does that have to do with laptops?
| userbinator wrote:
| From your 2nd link:
|
| _The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated,
| instead of working on a generic solution._
|
| That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are
| nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different
| enough that the software is customised for each one.
|
| _If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need
| to use their terrible Electron application._
|
| WTF. I thought Android being Java was already going too far,
| but they seem to have gone to a whole new level of insanity.
| charcircuit wrote:
| Android is not Java
| pjmlp wrote:
| While sadly true, it is close enough for a Java 17 LTS
| subset, even though it is Google's .NET with Kotlin having
| a C# like role.
|
| Didn't went out the same way as with J++, unfortunately.
| MarcusE1W wrote:
| I think it's great that a company tries to support ARM Linux
| and brings what looks to me like a Linux first ARM Laptop.
| pacifika wrote:
| The first link does not mention blacklisting, just resolving a
| license compatibility issue.
| pentamassiv wrote:
| "The patches check for the gxtp7380, ite_8291, ite_8291_lb,
| ite_8297, ite_829x, stk8321, tuxedo_compatibility_check,
| tuxedo_io, tuxedo_nb02_nvidia_power_ctrl,
| tuxedo_nb04_keyboard, tuxedo_nb04_wmi_ab, tuxedo_nb04_wmi_bs,
| tuxedo_nb04_sensors, tuxedo_nb04_power_profiles,
| tuxedo_nb04_kbd_backlight, tuxedo_nb05_keyboard,
| tuxedo_nb05_kbd_backlight, tuxedo_nb05_power_profiles,
| tuxedo_nb05_ec, tuxedo_nb05_sensors, tuxedo_nb05_fan_control,
| tuxi_acpi, tuxedo_tuxi_fan_control, clevo_wmi,
| tuxedo_keyboard, clevo_acpi, and uniwill_wmi kernel modules
| and will taint if they are present."
|
| That's not what I would describe as "resolving a license
| compatibility issue"
| rhaps0dy wrote:
| I would describe it as exactly "resolving a license
| compatibility issue". Taint in linux kernel refers to
| marking this kernel as not supported, which often just
| means not purely GPLv2 compatible anymore. Proprietary AMD
| and nVidia drivers also cause taints.
| https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/118117/251582
| deaddodo wrote:
| Yeah, the person you're responding to is taking "taint"
| to mean a literal ban situation; versus the very real
| status that exists in Linux Kernel development.
|
| "TAINTing" a driver/code doesn't mean it's blacklisted,
| it means it can't be upstreamed into the GPL codebase. It
| means that if you build a Kernel with it, it's no longer
| considered OSS-friendly.
|
| There are plenty of legitimate and viable codebases that
| use TAINTed kernels. The DoD, various government entities
| around the world, some commercial interests, etc.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > ite_829x
|
| Huh, so Tuxedo developed their own ITE 829x kernel driver.
|
| I have a Clevo based laptop, similar to the ones they sell.
| Years ago I reverse engineered the keyboard's features and
| wrote a user space driver.
|
| https://github.com/matheusmoreira/ite-829x
|
| I interacted with Tuxedo quite a few times back then while
| I was figuring this stuff out. They even sent me source
| code for a pre-release version of their Electron app. It
| didn't help much in the end but they proved to be much
| nicer and more responsive than other manufacturers and even
| Clevo itself.
|
| Wish they'd emailed me about their driver. I could have
| helped develop it, especially if they had given me
| documentation.
|
| I briefly explored the idea of turning it into a kernel
| module and contributing it to the kernel. While reading
| Linux driver source code, some comments gave me the
| impression they'd prefer code remained in user space if
| possible. Since I already had a working user space driver,
| I decided not to contribute it.
|
| I wrote the above program because Clevo's app was Windows
| only and so aggravating to use it defies description. Looks
| like Tuxedo ran into the same problem with their Electron
| app, if the complaints in this thread are any indication...
| Deja vu.
| avoid_tuxedo wrote:
| Seconded. Stay away from Tuxedo. You get better hardware
| support with many other vendors.
| mort96 wrote:
| Which ones? System76 presumably, but do you get better
| support from any of the mainstream vendors?
| mzur wrote:
| I'm a happy user of my second Tuxedo laptop after using the
| first for over 7 years, repairing several parts. I found their
| support very responsive and spare parts affordable. Your points
| are valid though. If you don't like their custom stuff, the
| device also works fine with a stock Linux install (Ubuntu in my
| case).
| bfrog wrote:
| So Qualcomm continues its Qualcomm behavior.
| ndiddy wrote:
| Frankly it's bizarre that a Linux focused vendor thinks it's
| better to keep their device drivers outside of the kernel. Why
| would I buy a rebadged Clevo laptop from Tuxedo where I'm stuck
| either running their special Tuxedo distro or fiddling around
| with compiling kernel modules on other distros, when I could
| buy a much better laptop for the same price from a vendor who
| doesn't even advertise Linux support and get full out of the
| box hardware support on any distro I choose?
| jeppester wrote:
| I bought a Tuxedo machine. While the situation is not perfect
| (I had to install driver packages on Fedora), everything
| works perfectly - including standby.
|
| My last machine was a Thinkpad, and I never got it to work
| nearly as well. Standby mostly didn't work and when docking
| it, external screens would be arranged incorrectly unless I
| rebooted. USB ports also did not activate when docked, so I
| had a script for resetting the USB devices. Sometimes a new
| kernel version would come along and cause it to start
| freezing.
|
| I did check out other laptops before buying the tuxedo (t14s
| g6 amd, zenbook s14), but according to the information
| available at the time, those machines had lots of issues.
| They were also more expensive.
|
| Therefore I'm very curious about which laptop that you think
| is both better and cheaper than tuxedo, and has full hardware
| support out of the box?
| ghostpepper wrote:
| Which thinkpad was the one you had so many issues with, and
| which dock? I've had a few issues with my caldigit ts3 and
| ryzen 7840 p14s thinkpad but on the whole everything works
| pretty well. Worst issue has been a dumb regression with
| the Qualcomm ath12k firmware that wasn't backed out for
| months.
| kubav027 wrote:
| I have the same thinkpad as working computer and
| InfinityBook Pro 14 Gen 9 with 8845 as home computer.
| Lenovo has better upstream linux support but I was able
| to make both work without issues. I use debian
| testing/unstable.
|
| Lenovo pros:
|
| - better case
|
| - better keyboard
|
| Tuxedo pros:
|
| - significantly cheaper price
|
| - two fan setup enables faster performace (it is stable
| with 90W power consumption)
|
| - almost twice as long battery life (tuxedo has bigger
| batery with similar weight and size)
|
| - two nvme slots
|
| If you want more powerful notebook with slightly worse
| build quality, tuxedo is good choice.
| Neikius wrote:
| I have a tuxedo 14" i7-12700H with 3050. And it is
| terrible. Specs are nice, price was hefty, but in the end
| it does not deliver. Battery is horrible, charging is
| disruptive, power budget is not enough. All stems from the
| nvidia card that I paid serious bucks to get included but
| it makes a decent laptop into a very bad one as the power
| delivery system just does not seem to be able to cope with
| it.
|
| Anyway I would go with FRAMEWORK there. Sadly they did not
| deliver to my address when I was in the market, but now
| they do.
|
| Hopefully latest Tuxedo does have better hardware support?
| Mine has problems with charging, usb-c charging is even
| worse (slow charge normal performance or ok charge and 5W
| throttling which makes all cores go at 1GHz), battery
| saving feature that hides 10% of battery capacity in
| firmware etc. They also stopped delivering any firmware
| updates after a few months.
| dismalaf wrote:
| The laptop 3050 card is the worst piece of computer
| hardware I've ever owned. Literally just heats up the
| laptop and still delivers shit performance.
|
| I've got an MSI laptop and I've settled on simply never
| using the Nvidia card (prime-select iGPU only). The
| integrated graphics have access to 16gb of ram (versus
| the Nvidia card's 4gb) and deliver better performance
| without the whole laptop hitting 100 degrees.
| kubav027 wrote:
| You are right that tuxedo has some issues. But also take into
| account price of their notebooks. Even lenovo, hp, dell etc.
| are not without issues in the similar price category. I take it
| as cheap HW for advanced users.
|
| But you are right that not having drivers upstream is really
| strange decision.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need
| to use their terrible Electron application.
|
| > It's so bad, volunteers created an alternative.
|
| Years ago I wrote my own Linux user space driver for the
| keyboard on my Clevo based laptop. The Clevo application was so
| terrible I reverse engineered it and made my own Linux free
| software replacement.
|
| https://github.com/matheusmoreira/ite-829x
|
| It seems some Tuxedo laptops have the same keyboard. Maybe
| Tuxedo users will find it useful.
| TheJCDenton wrote:
| A little more context : in june 2024 at Computex, Tuxedo
| announced a possible christmas 2024 release [1]. A
| Qualcomm/Tuxedo collaboration was expected but did not
| materialize [2].
|
| [1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-on-ARM-is-
| coming.t... [2] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/How-is-
| TUXEDOCOes-ARM-Not...
| ZiiS wrote:
| Been daily driving an M1 for two years at this point; no
| complaints.
| aaviator42 wrote:
| With a Linux distro on it?
| HeuristicsCG wrote:
| A Unix.
|
| With applications.
|
| And working webcam light and audio.
| whitehexagon wrote:
| Asahi Fedora here, works good.
| ZiiS wrote:
| Yes, with Asahi (Now a Fedora was Arch initially). Think the
| fingerprint reader still didn't work but not really tried.
| Also only one external monitor (or DisplayLink) but the
| screen, sound, battery life, performace all best any x86 I
| have used.
| tom89999 wrote:
| I am fed up with the linux world. I run Ubuntu on a randomly
| selected Thinkpad, everything works, outta the box. Why should i
| buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu doing the exact
| workload? I cant code faster, cant talk faster with people and
| being productive 8hrs strait is just a lie. Since almost 10years
| i read about pre-installed devices, but i dont see them anywhere.
| Most companies dont have business linux apps and they wont be
| available, an armada of developers is busy bringing the light of
| the webcam functioning. Why not specialize in something else like
| software the entire world runs on like SAP or whatever? Its nice
| to spend a rainy day to compile your kernel...but the outcome?
| resonious wrote:
| > Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu
| doing the exact workload?
|
| Long battery is pretty nice. And you don't have to be
| productive for 8 hours straight to feel the niceness.
| irusensei wrote:
| Nobody is telling you to buy a new laptop. Same goes for
| software. If it's not for you then don't use it. It's all about
| choice. And the entire Linux ecosystem is not a single entity
| to "specialize on SAP or whatever". I suspect a large portion
| of SAP systems already run Linux anyway.
| homebrewer wrote:
| Why not switch to Windows then? You'll of course have to chuck
| that perfectly finely working laptop when Windows 12 declares
| it obsolete, but such is life there.
| efdee wrote:
| I think you're confusing Microsoft and Apple. :-)
| jamesnorden wrote:
| You don't "have to" do anything, you can stay with the setup
| you're using right now just fine, I don't get the point of this
| post, you're fighting ghosts.
| throwaway328 wrote:
| Or you could say they are "tilting at windmills".
| bee_rider wrote:
| This sort of device is not really "the Linux world," it is a
| company trying to provide Linux to people outside it; people
| who need pre-installs.
|
| It is fine, and good of them to try, but if you don't need it,
| you don't need it.
| constantcrying wrote:
| >Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu
| doing the exact workload?
|
| Do you think that you are the center of the world and no
| product deserves to exist unless you have an immediate use for
| it?
| tom89999 wrote:
| I was pushing this into the marketing perspective. You are
| told what to buy...
| OptionX wrote:
| Any word on a compibily layer project for x86/64 like Rosetta?
| Seems like an important thing to have imo.
|
| The article mentions an emulator, but it seemed to be for running
| games.
|
| I also heard MS had something similar in their arm dev kit, but
| haven't looked much into it.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| There is Box86/box64/box32. A bit confusing but it's box86 for
| x86 > ARM32. Box64 for x86_64 > ARM64. And Box32 for x86 >
| ARM64.
|
| I think they mention games because a lot of other software for
| Linux is generally open source. So a lot of times it's pretty
| easy to get an ARM build.
|
| It also does a neat performance trick where it intercepts
| library calls and redirects them to native versions of the same
| library.
|
| http://github.com/ptitSeb/box64
| goosedragons wrote:
| It's not just for games. FEX-EMU is used here alongside
| Wine/Proton to run games but it'll also run the x64 version of
| other things. There's other layers like Box64 that do the same
| thing. For Linux, a lot of the software traditionally found in
| repos already has an ARM version and it's not as necessary. On
| Windows on ARM sometimes the only way to get an ARM native
| version is to run the Linux version under WSL.
|
| Windows on ARM has allowed running x86 code from launch with
| Windows 10 and x64 code since Windows 11.
| OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
| There's lots of responses but they miss the point. Rosetta let
| you run x86/64 apps without even knowing they were x86/64. Back
| when I ran Asahi, I searched far and wide, but Linux doesn't
| support that level of transparent integration. You always had
| to fuddle with the launch params.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| qemu user mode does that
|
| https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation
| adastra22 wrote:
| Pedantic point, but Linux (the kernel) absolutely does. You
| can register an executable handler for amd64 binaries, and
| have Linux call that whenever one is invoked.
|
| There is absolutely no user land infrastructure for using
| this in the way that Rosetta does on macOS, though. Feel free
| to contribute it!
| jzellis wrote:
| It's not precisely a laptop, but I have an augmented reality
| cyberdeck using XReal AR glasses running into a battery powered
| Raspberry Pi 5 that I built, which runs pretty well. I feel like
| the Pis have long been a canary in the coalmine for Linux and ARM
| (first ARMHF and now ARM64) support.
| lll-o-lll wrote:
| That sounds... awesome! I want one; links to a part list or
| anything?
| _0ffh wrote:
| It's easy to find the company (https://www.xreal.com/us/air/)
| but they sell different models, and I'd be interested in gp's
| model and user experience.
| 0x000xca0xfe wrote:
| Do the Snapdragons implement TSO/Total Store Order like the Apple
| chips to allow Rosetta 2 like x86 compatibility?
| goosedragons wrote:
| No. But what x86/x64 support that is available on Windows/Linux
| isn't as slow as you might think.
| 0x000xca0xfe wrote:
| Do you have any data or reviews to link for that?
|
| I'd really like to replace my old Thinkpad with a long-
| running, lightweight Linux laptop that can also do some
| gaming on the side (think Witcher 3 on good settings) but
| Snapdragon has not lived up to the hype AFAIK.
|
| But big thumbs up to all the Linux devs that are working on
| improving the situation!
| adastra22 wrote:
| Not having the special hardware you are referring to means
| that the transpiled binaries have more fences than might be
| strictly necessary, which maybe gives a 5-10% performance
| hit depending on the use case?
| mehdibl wrote:
| This sound nice but I don't like the incompatibility with x86.
| Docker and many other things.
|
| Yeah we need some trade off's. But for dev's & a lot of ops stuff
| I enjoy more x86 as it's de facto standard.
| bradfa wrote:
| Docker works fine on arm. Docker has multi-arch image support
| and it works seamlessly if implemented correctly. Tons of
| docker images already support multi-arch.
| https://www.docker.com/blog/multi-arch-build-and-images-the-...
| bornfreddy wrote:
| But tons of them also don't. And for those that don't, there
| are usually alternatives available, but they are just that
| tiny bit different. So while Docker works, there is extra
| effort needed to use it.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| You can always use amd64 images with qemu-user if
| necessary.
| davidgerard wrote:
| Does Linux arm64 run Windows x86 applications in Wine? I mean,
| I'd be surprised if it did, but I need that. Otherwise an arm64
| Linux laptop is super tempting.
| ekianjo wrote:
| Yes, with Box86 and Box64 along with Wine.
| bilgi42 wrote:
| If it's not fully supported and has major roadbumps, which it
| has, it is not supported. I don't know why companies take linux
| users as fools that'll accept anything thrown at them. Until
| lenovo can get their shit together and make a respectable laptop
| with 12h+ battery life, good build quality and a decent enough
| screen even on the worst configs, im not getting it
| arend321 wrote:
| I'm waiting for Android Virtualization Framework to run a full
| Linux distro on my smartphone with portable monitor (glasses).
| Already using Termux but AVF is hopefully much more performant.
| Maybe the Samsung S26 Ultra will have full support. I might ditch
| my miniPC if this works out.
| fsflover wrote:
| Full Linux distro already works fine on my Librem 5, without
| unnecessary, costly virtualization.
| arend321 wrote:
| It's a very interesting project, but I don't think I'm ready
| to let go of all my Android apps.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| On those rare occasions that I need to launch an Android
| app (such as my banking app), I run it in Waydroid.
| djrj477dhsnv wrote:
| That won't work with apps that require Play Store
| Integrity, right?
| fsflover wrote:
| I prefer to switch bank when they force me to support
| American megacorps.
| boomskats wrote:
| I'm waiting for one of the headset vendors to support IMU-based
| HID mouse cursor control in hardware, with the same end goal in
| mind. In the meantime I'm stuck on amd64 with my little
| libinput driver[0].
|
| [0]: https://github.com/boomskats/woahland
| TechDebtDevin wrote:
| How long can work on one of these for?
| boomskats wrote:
| I find it extremely comfortable. Considerably moreso than
| with my desk and monitor setup. I'm long sighted and the
| projection distance means I don't need glasses to see, and
| they don't get overly hot (nothing compared to a VR
| headset). Most significantly though, I can change the
| position of my head whenever I want without changing what
| I'm looking at, which makes a difference for my neck
| comfort, posture, etc.
|
| To answer your question directly, I've done multiple 2-3
| hour sessions at a time without taking the glasses off and
| have done 10+ hour days in them when away from home. At
| home I typically tend to use them for a couple of hours in
| the afternoons when I'm tired and more willing to sacrifice
| screen real estate for comfort.
|
| The detail isn't the same and you have to plan your screen
| layout a bit (i.e. looking at code near the edges of the
| screen is annoying). But I think they're the future - a
| much bigger deal than VR or AR.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| I've been playing with it[0] - it still has a few rough edges.
| It's rather slow to start up compared to firing up a VM in
| virt-manager, and when you shut it down you must wait for it to
| finish shutting down before trying to restart it.
|
| Woe to you if Debian pushes a systemd update. It took repeated
| incantations with apt to get that update to take, because
| updating systemd would crash the VM Every. Damn. Time.
|
| [0] The current console-only incarnation.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > Already using Termux but AVF is hopefully much more
| performant.
|
| I'm cautiously optimistic about AVF, but I don't see why it
| would have any better performance than native code running
| directly on the host system?
| arend321 wrote:
| I thought AVF has hardware virtualization where proot is
| user-space.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Oh, sorry, I missed that you meant running another distro
| under termux. Yes, _that_ probably will be faster, I agree.
| (I thought we were talking about native termux, which doesn
| 't have the proot perf hit)
| flkenosad wrote:
| Is there something like Rosetta for linux?
| ankurdhama wrote:
| box64: https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64
| diabllicseagull wrote:
| Last I checked power management didn't work so they would run hot
| and burn through your battery. So unless there is full software
| support for hardware that makes laptops a portable computer, it's
| just not a practical solution for me.
|
| Tho, I really want this to happen. As far as I've tested on
| Volterra (ms dev kit 2023), linux has a lot going right for it.
| there is a ton of ARM64 packages, and drivers just work (e.g. I
| had to wait so long for Wacom to release WoA drivers while it
| worked out the box with ARM64 linux builds). the potential is
| there and it's great.
|
| On a last note, not being able to ship necessary firmware and
| relying on a WoA boot drive still sucks.
| jama211 wrote:
| Poor power management has always been the last bastion keeping
| me from using Linux in certain machines. My desktop won't sleep
| or wake up at all (or it will wake but show a grey screen and
| glitch out) on any distro I've tried. Every time I use it on a
| laptop the battery life is terrible. Makes me sad.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Power mgmt has worked very well on our old Dell precision
| that came with Linux, and two newer Frameworks (1 Intel, 1
| AMD). Basically perfect for over a decade.
|
| Battery life could be a bit better but is decent.
| rr808 wrote:
| I'm waiting for this. I like low powered laptops as more of a
| terminal. I dont want the apple ecosystem, but I'm getting really
| tired of windows, high end chromebooks kinda disappeared, I have
| Linux servers at home. Do I have to wait much longer?
| ozgrakkurt wrote:
| A laptop with a recent ryzen processor and a large battery goes
| a long way already. It is not as good as my m1 macbook but it
| is really good
| WD-42 wrote:
| I have a think pad I use this way. Super light, battery lasts
| forever but it's super low powered. However, I use Tailscale to
| connect to my beefy desktop at home with ssh/tmux and Zed
| remote editing. It's perfect.
| vinkelhake wrote:
| An alternative that is available right now is to get an M1/M2
| MacBook Air and run Asahi Linux on it. The older models are
| pretty cheap, but still quite fast. There are some missing
| features, but it runs really well. I've been using it as my
| home driver for over a year and it's really solid.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| If you can avoid eye rolling at the stupid name, the new Ryzen
| AI lineup (codename strix point) is really, really good. Very
| efficient.
| rr808 wrote:
| OK interesting. I'm not interested in AI stuff, but looks
| like they are lower power too which is what I want.
| nextos wrote:
| Performance per watt is not far at all from M4. The Ryzen
| AI 9 HX 370 actually beats a M4 Max in e.g. Passmark per
| Watt (652 vs 625), and it's not much behind in other
| benchmarks.
|
| With some tweaks, it can also be silent. Good ThinkPads are
| not far from the user experience delivered by the latest
| MacBooks, and they have the advantage of running free
| software and x86_64.
| mg wrote:
| Will this enable plain Debian on tablets like the the Microsoft
| Surface?
|
| That would be awesome!
| fb03 wrote:
| I'm still waiting for the apple laptop killer (a 12h+ laptop with
| plain Ubuntu) but it's still brittle as fuck. I'm so frustrated
| by the current state of the mobile computing space. I have to
| have an Apple locked down device, which I hate, just because I
| want proper battery life.
|
| A aarch64 Ubuntu vm inside MacOS runs faster and lasts more time
| than a booted up Ubuntu on arm in these devices. This is how far
| behind these things are.
|
| and what bums me the most is that it's all about software. The
| hardware is great, but software on Snapdragon is taking a lot of
| time to catch up and it screams M$ lobby to me
| lbrito wrote:
| Pretty sure there are plenty of traditional x86 Linux laptops
| that have north of 12h battery life. System76 comes to mind
| (mandatory "System76 is just a Clevo wrapper" comment).
| kllrnohj wrote:
| My AMD Framework 13 running Fedora (an officially supported
| option: https://frame.work/linux ) also gets around that
| amount of battery life. And can run games surprisingly well.
| umbra07 wrote:
| That puts you at just over 5W average on a 61whr battery. I
| find that very hard to believe. 5W is achievable if you
| drastically limit the CPU governor, physically disable the
| mic/camera, using a chart-topping power-efficient SSD, all
| while actually doing nothing. Just a single YouTube video
| in a single firefox tab will bring you up to at least 10W.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > Just a single YouTube video in a single firefox tab
| will bring you up to at least 10W.
|
| 10W for video playback is a _lot_. 5w average for light
| workloads is not unrealistic... I think your perception
| of power consumption is a number of years out of date at
| this point.
|
| After all, Apple claims 18 hours from a 54watt-hour
| battery - you really think nobody else can get within 2x
| of that?
| volemo wrote:
| But do they weigh 3 lbs at the same time?
| bgnn wrote:
| Laptops with Intel Lunar Lake (i.e. 258V) CPUs get upwards
| of 12 hours easily, often in 15-18 hour range depending on
| the battery size. Just a quick search reveals for example
| Dell XPS 13 9350 (Core Ultra 7 258V) is Ubuntu certified
| [1], weighs 2.6 pounds, and has long battery life (17-18
| hours video streaming on Windows).
|
| [1] https://ubuntu.com/certified/202407-34214
| trelane wrote:
| It's not "just a Clevo wrapper."
|
| Clevo is their ODM. They work with Clevo to put together a
| laptop, and Clevo gets the right to sell a Windows variant.
| Their version differs, particularly in firmware but also
| possibly in chips.
| INTPenis wrote:
| I echo that wish.
|
| I'm about to try the Dell XPS 13 Snapdragon Q Elite with Linux
| so we'll see how it goes.
| Manuel_D wrote:
| Microsoft has definitely put a lot of work into the arm surface
| laptops. I'm having a good time using a surface 15 inch. I
| picked the lowest spec model, only 16 GM ram and 256 GB drive.
| But I use it like a terminal: I run vscode server on either my
| desktop or a VM, and the vscode client on the laptop. So the
| actual compiling and I think also the LSP is running remotely,
| but I still have a responsive editor on the client. The result
| is phenomenal battery life, 16 hours if not more. It also has
| the side effect that any build artifacts are produced directly
| on the server, no more uploading multi-gigabyte containers over
| my home Internet to the cloud. But of course, it assumes 24/7
| internet connection.
|
| I would appreciate a native Linux arm laptop, but this setup
| works for me in the meantime.
| bigyabai wrote:
| > but software on Snapdragon is taking a lot of time to catch
| up and it screams M$ lobby to me
|
| On Linux?
|
| The hard reality is that Apple invests in SoftBank, the owner
| of ARM's IP, and nobody in the Linux (or Windows) world does
| the same. They really just don't care. There aren't entrenched
| hardware manufacturers that want to reprise the featureset of
| UEFI on ARM. You will be waiting forever if you demand an ARM
| laptop that works like an x86 one with Linux.
|
| ARM has been like this forever, and it's unlikely it will
| change due to Asahi or Apple Silicon. ARM lives or dies based
| on Apple's treatment of it, no other corporate stakeholder has
| comparable control over the ISA.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Last time I was at FOSDEM was about a decade ago, it was kind
| of ironic to see so much Apple gear around, given the
| conference tone.
| wslh wrote:
| I'd suggest that top non-Apple businesspeople try using a
| MacBook for a few weeks, hopefully it sparks some fresh
| thinking and decisions. Like it or not, Apple's advantage in
| battery life (and processor efficiency) is remarkable. If I
| recall correctly, Samsung made a real dent in the iPhone's lead
| with the Galaxy S2 around 2011, four years after the iPhone
| launched in 2007. But with the M1 chips released in 2020,
| Apple's lead this time around seems poised to last even longer.
|
| Note: not an Apple fanboy.
| bigyabai wrote:
| > businesspeople
|
| Well, there's your leading qualifier. Covid taught us that
| businesspeople can do their work on an iPad with Google Docs
| if they had to. It's not much of a surprise to anyone that
| _they_ can do their work on a Mac with a souped-up iPhone
| processor.
|
| My shock with Apple Silicon is how it collapses with non-
| browser-oriented tasks. The moment I stop watching YouTube
| it's like I'm back on Linux in 2008 again, trying to run
| everything through a Windows VM. My old Pro Tools plugins?
| Gotta use a VM, Rosetta won't work. A modern OpenGL program?
| Gotta wrestle depreciation flags to compile it. Even my old
| Homebrew casks had to get rewritten because Apple Silicon had
| to switch stuff around again.
|
| By the time people insisted "try the M2 for a few weeks!" I
| was already dailying NixOS. MacOS is continuing the frying-
| pan-to-fire arc it started ever since 10.14.
| trelane wrote:
| > I have to have an Apple locked down device, which I hate,
| just because I want proper battery life.
|
| Chicken and egg. The Linux vendors don't have the power to
| drive ODMs nearly as much as Apple because everyone keeps
| buying Windows and slapping Linux on it (then complaining
| online when they have to be the systems integrator themselves,
| fixing the inevitable razor cuts)
| bigyabai wrote:
| We learned one simple lesson, the past 10 years: if you want
| good ARM support, it has to come from the vendor. Nobody else
| can reverse-engineer devicetrees or GPU drivers with a
| remotely comparable release cadence. Linux has supported new
| x86 chipsets on day-1 since forever now; compare that to
| Broadcom or Apple Silicon's "best effort" community support
| that often takes years to boot into a graphical environment.
| Forget about stability or regression testing, it's a
| tinkertoy.
|
| This is a shame because all the ARM licensees worth buying
| hardware from _always_ have higher margins on smartphones or
| services. They have no commitment to supporting the PC or
| server market, let alone the software they use or featureset
| they depend on. It 's no wonder that ARM adoption is stalling
| on the runway while Power11 gets upstream kernel support and
| RISC-V displaces integrated ARM ICs. Their _only stakeholder_
| is making their money off iPhone apps, not professional
| software.
| reisse wrote:
| > I'm still waiting for the apple laptop killer (a 12h+ laptop
| with plain Ubuntu) but it's still brittle as fuck.
|
| Try Intel's Lunar Lake. My Zenbook 14S (S is important here!)
| does 12h+ on VS Code, browser & meetings (but compilation is
| remote). The screen is better than on Macbooks (it's high-res
| OLED), overall build is good. You probably won't be able to run
| Ubuntu LTS without installing latest kernel, but regular
| version should do just fine.
|
| If you don't like ASUS, you can also try Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen
| 13. It's a bit on the smaller side and costs twice as much, but
| it's a pretty neat device.
| paul_h wrote:
| Oh that's nice hardware for the price. I wonder if ChromeOS
| Flex installs as easily.
| holri wrote:
| Since 2019 there is also the ARM64 MNT Reform Laptop
| https://mntre.com/reform.html
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