[HN Gopher] What went wrong for Yahoo
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       What went wrong for Yahoo
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 244 points
       Date   : 2025-07-26 18:25 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dfarq.homeip.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dfarq.homeip.net)
        
       | rufus_foreman wrote:
       | "In 1998, Yahoo turned down the opportunity to acquire Google for
       | $1 million."
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Sure, but Google is not inflating due to a cosmological
         | constant. If Yahoo had acquired Google, Google would now be
         | worthless, not a trillion-dollar company.
        
           | rNULLED wrote:
           | what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable
           | object?
        
             | dvh wrote:
             | From falsehood, anything follows. (I'm implying here that
             | you don't have unstoppable force and you don't have
             | immovable object)
        
               | DonHopkins wrote:
               | If your grandmother had wheels, then she's be a bicycle.
        
               | iluvlawyering wrote:
               | From contradiction, non-contradiction.
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | MSN.
        
               | gscott wrote:
               | I like how MSN manages to pack so much content onto a
               | single page--it's surprisingly intuitive. I'm not sure
               | why that kind of formatting isn't more common.
        
             | iluvlawyering wrote:
             | A deflection.
        
           | bborud wrote:
           | Exactly.
           | 
           | Don't forget that Yahoo bought three search engines.
           | 
           | (Full disclosure: I worked for one of the companies they
           | acquired).
        
           | baal80spam wrote:
           | > Google is not inflating due to a cosmological constant
           | 
           | Well put!
        
       | evanjrowley wrote:
       | I am reminded of LICRA v. Yahoo. Another puzzling choice of
       | Yahoo's that seems very wrong in hindsight.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LICRA_v._Yahoo!
        
       | thunderbong wrote:
       | > In 1998, Yahoo turned down the opportunity to acquire Google
       | for $1 million. Yahoo made six acquisitions that year, spending
       | $107.3 million.
       | 
       | > In 2002, Google offered to sell again for $1 billion. Yahoo
       | hesitated and Google raised its price to $3 billion. Yahoo
       | declined at the higher price. Google went on to become a trillion
       | dollar company.
       | 
       | > Yahoo attempted to acquire Facebook for $1 billion in 2006, but
       | Mark Zuckerberg turned down the offer. Had Yahoo increased its
       | offer by just $100 million, Facebook's board would have forced
       | Zuckerberg to take it. Facebook also became a trillion dollar
       | company.
       | 
       | In inclined to believe that neither would have become trillion
       | dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | > In inclined to believe that neither would have become
         | trillion dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo.
         | 
         | Yeah exactly. Also I would consider the Overture acquisition
         | extremely successful because their patent lawsuit v. Google
         | gave them 8% of Google pre-IPO. If held (which it was not),
         | that is a substantial asset today.
        
           | bn-l wrote:
           | They had 8% of Google at one point and sold it?!
        
           | jll29 wrote:
           | You are spot on, but you are drawing a slightly wrong
           | conclusion, IMHO:
           | 
           | Yes, Overture what the best Yahoo! acquisition ever made.
           | 
           | But Yahoo!'s greatest mistake was to settle the Google
           | lawsuit for a few million dollars - which meant that Google
           | could keep using Overture's (parented) invention of keyword
           | bidding based advertising; without it, Google may never have
           | found a way to become profitable.
           | 
           | So Yahoo! bought its own gravestone for $50m, when all they
           | would have had to do is stand firm and go to trial. If Y!
           | exercised its government-awarded monopoly rights for keyword
           | auction based advertising, there may still be that Y! portal
           | that was so prominent in the early 2000s.
           | 
           | PS: Yahoo Inc. is not full gone - Yahoo Japan remains the
           | last independent part of the former Y! - see
           | https://www.yahoo.co.jp .
        
             | 1317 wrote:
             | > Yahoo Japan remains the last independent part of the
             | former Y!
             | 
             | didn't they get bought by the koreans
        
               | 4ggr0 wrote:
               | well then Yahoo Korea is the last part /s
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | Do you think any of their other successful acquisitions had the
         | same potential if left on their own?
        
           | blueboo wrote:
           | Or even, did any of the other successful acquisitions have
           | potential that was perceptibly curtailed by said acquisition?
           | 
           | Feels like a cliche at this point, but I'm not sure it's
           | true.
        
           | recursivecaveat wrote:
           | Tumblr was 2-3x bigger than reddit apparently at acquisition
           | time (just looking at google trends). Now reddit is public at
           | 27B market cap, and tumblr is virtually worthless. I don't
           | think there's anything fundamental about tumblr that would
           | have prevented it from being the one in the sun instead.
           | They're not dissimilar, and they could've used those years to
           | grow tumblr in whatever direction they liked if there was
           | indeed something stalling it.
        
             | sfblah wrote:
             | I know a fair bit about this deal. Some massive percentage
             | of Tumblr's traffic was porn. And, shockingly, Yahoo
             | management did NOT know this when they signed the check.
        
         | mongol wrote:
         | It is an interesting thought experiment. Would Yahoo have
         | become Google, or would another company have taken Google's
         | place, or perhaps something entirely different would have
         | played out. Would we have had Android? Would we have had
         | Chrome, or Google Maps, and so on
        
         | Mobius01 wrote:
         | Now I want a counter factual story about Yahoo acquiring
         | Facebook, which then never flourishes into the influential
         | network it became. What happens to society? Would we have the
         | same political climate?
        
           | benrutter wrote:
           | I want to know this too! If I invent a time machine, I'll
           | message you but till then here's my ungrounded take
           | (Obviously everything here is my personal opinion and not
           | evidenced)
           | 
           | The current political climate has mainly happened because
           | capital interest has taken control of unregulated news and
           | opinion. Meta are a particularly bad example of this, but as
           | long as there's money to be made by providing a platform for
           | polarising politics and fake news, then I think someone will
           | do so.
           | 
           | Who knows, maybe in that alternate universe you'd be posting
           | "if Yahoo hadn't made such savy choices, I wonder if we would
           | have the political climate we have today?"
        
             | cruffle_duffle wrote:
             | > The current political climate has mainly happened because
             | capital interest has taken control of unregulated news and
             | opinion
             | 
             | This has always been the case for as long as society has
             | been consuming the news. "Business tycoons" have bought up
             | newspapers and media outlets since forever to push their
             | narrative.
             | 
             | I think one component that has changed is the sheer volume
             | and diversity of media makes competition for your attention
             | (clicks) all the more fierce. Enter The Algorithm and
             | optimizing for metrics above all else.
             | 
             | I dunno. That doesn't invalidate anything about the
             | original question about what present day would be like
             | without Facebook. Would something else similar have
             | replaced it? Is Facebook really "the problem" or is it
             | algorithmic content because algorithmicly driven content
             | was going to happen facebook or not.
        
               | Eisenstein wrote:
               | It wasn't that bad when we had the Fairness Doctrine,
               | which was removed in 1987. From there you could see a
               | steady slide in US politics as polarization increased,
               | from the Clinton scandal, to Gingrich and then Bush 2000.
               | By the time Facebook hit it was already too late.
        
               | rynohack wrote:
               | The Fairness Doctrine had a very limited influence on the
               | media in general. It's power has been vastly over stated
               | as of the last 15 years.
               | 
               | It was only applicable to broadcast media, and rarely
               | enforced. Nearly all of the enforcement was on behalf of
               | private individuals wanting free airtime to respond to
               | negative new stories about them.
               | 
               | In my opinion it's a very bad idea to want political
               | appointees to decide when an issue hasn't been given fair
               | news coverage. The very idea that there is only 2 sides
               | to an issue reinforces the two party system that has made
               | media so biased in the first place
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | It's because of the fragmentation of news sources that can
             | now be customized to one's preference with any finely
             | sliced political cant desired. Three television networks
             | maintained a measure of neutrality in their reporting.
             | Mainstream print media did too albeit to a lesser extent.
             | Wackjobs had a hard time finding each other to form a tribe
             | that would destabilize society.
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | Before the rise of social media, the mainstream news
               | ignored both things going on in minority communities like
               | police violence and ignored rural America. The MAGA
               | community and Trump himself bypassed the mainstream media
               | because of social media.
               | 
               | America has always been polarized - institutions just
               | never gave them a voice.
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | > unregulated news
             | 
             | For all of unregulated news's flaws, government controlled
             | news would be worse.
        
               | benrutter wrote:
               | Yes, probably. But there's a spectrum. The UK has quite
               | strict rules on air time to differing views (you can't
               | air a climate change story which presents climate denial
               | as the only opinion as news). I think those rules lead to
               | a better system, not a more government controlled one.
               | 
               | Ironically, we (the UK) have the BBC which is fairly
               | literally, government funded (not controlled) news. It's
               | much more even handed than a lot of commercial news.
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | Britain's political culture is a bit of a disaster
               | though. Kier Starmer was the best they could find in the
               | last election and as far as I can tell even the people
               | who voted for him don't seem to support him in the main.
               | This time last century they controlled 20% of the worlds
               | population and sat in a vast network of trade and
               | technological innovation all feeding back towards the
               | British Isles.
               | 
               | Then through basically an ongoing refusal to engage with
               | political realities they've managed to transition to the
               | number 5 and dropping economy in nominal terms and,
               | realistically, probably don't have the industrial oomph
               | to back up the paper numbers. There was political debate
               | recently over whether the country should even be able to
               | produce steel. Per capita the picture is a bit worse, and
               | on a PPP basis they're actually a hair below the European
               | average. They've also managed to become relatively
               | politically isolated because no view seems to have gained
               | ascendancy over what their foreign policy should look
               | like.
               | 
               | Now it'd be unfair to blame it all on the present crop
               | given the huge amounts of damage done in WWII, but it is
               | a bit difficult for me to accept the trendlines of the UK
               | compared to the recovering USSR countries or China/Taiwan
               | while believing that there is a healthy political
               | discourse. The high performing countries have done
               | amazing things even from a standing start in the 70s, 80s
               | and 90s. From such a dominant starting position, with the
               | momentum of the old empire and technically being on the
               | winning side of pretty much every major conflict and
               | ideological UK politics seem to have done rather badly.
               | The country is wildly average for somewhere that was so
               | ahead of the game relatively recently and with so many
               | opportunities to succeed in the interim and such poor
               | quality of candidates allowed to hold power.
        
             | gonzobonzo wrote:
             | > The current political climate has mainly happened because
             | capital interest has taken control of unregulated news and
             | opinion.
             | 
             | We're seeing the opposite, though. As the traditional media
             | companies declined and the masses gained a greater ability
             | to voice their own views, polarization increased.
             | 
             | As someone who tries to avoid the news and politics, it's
             | pretty easy to avoid the companies selling them. But I keep
             | running into them because there are lots of users on Hacker
             | News/Reddit/etc. who try to interject it into every
             | discussion they can . Invariably, these people don't come
             | at it from the point of view that they might be wrong and
             | the other side might be right; they act like zealous
             | crusaders on a mission to vanquish evil.
        
               | benrutter wrote:
               | I don't dissagree, but I think I'm using "news and
               | opinion" more loosely. To my mind, facebook putting your
               | sister's political rant into your feed above your uncle's
               | fishing pictures, is a kind of wauly of profiting from
               | devisive political opinion. Even if it is more subtle
               | than the NYT publishing a think piece.
        
               | mejutoco wrote:
               | > the masses gained a greater ability to voice their own
               | views, polarization increased.
               | 
               | It is the bot farms voicing opinions IMO. For regular
               | people one account equals one human, and it is a
               | difficult feeling to uproot for many people.
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | So polarization wasn't an issue when segregation was the
               | law in much of the south with separate schools, water
               | fountains, entrances?
        
             | anomaly_ wrote:
             | Haha what? It's the literal opposite mate. We've had an
             | explosion of independent and non-capital aligned media. No
             | matter what your brand of crazy is, you can find the
             | "thought leaders" and community for you.
        
               | edm0nd wrote:
               | Yeah the explosion of the internet has allowed some
               | conspiracy schizo person in the US to connect with
               | another schizo conspriacy person across the world in
               | Moldova to quickly find each other online and then
               | confirm each others schizo beliefs.
               | 
               | Believe in flat Earth? Are you a holocaust denier? Think
               | the moon landing is fake? Is the government gang stalking
               | you? Welp you are in luck, there's thousands of other
               | people just like you and here is a forum.
               | 
               | Kinda wild when you think about it.
        
               | arwhatever wrote:
               | Do you feel the urge to fuck your toaster?
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667362
        
               | benrutter wrote:
               | There's another comment along these lines too. I think my
               | "news and opinion" phrase sounded like I exclusively
               | meant mainstream news. But I was thinking more generally
               | abouts "news and opinion content" like Breitbart, X
               | comments, facebook rants, etc.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | > then I think someone will do so.
             | 
             | Yes, but, would they be any where near the level of what FB
             | achieved? Take Truth Social as an example. It started
             | because people wanted a place they get out of the larger
             | group to dedicate to like minded. In this Philip K Dick
             | style rewriting of history where FB was created by those
             | behind Truth, would it have ever achieved critical mass?
             | 
             | Just because someone else attempts to fill in the vacuum of
             | something else not being there does not mean that it will
             | succeed in filling the void. Truth only survives on the
             | cult of personality, not because people really want to be
             | using it or because it's like a good product
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | > Take Truth Social as an example. It started because
               | people wanted a place they get out of the larger group to
               | dedicate to like minded.
               | 
               | Not at all. It started because Trump was banned from
               | Twitter. That's it. The whole point was to give Trump a
               | platform. There is nothing organic or natural about Truth
               | Social and if it is the symptom of anything, it's that
               | some people just have too much money.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I kind of disagree in that the giving him a platform is
               | just the cover for the actual purpose which is a way for
               | anyone to shovel him money through a "legitimate" means
               | to avoid any sense of bribe or quid pro quo. Very similar
               | into how certain countries that wanted to curry favor
               | made long term rental agreements for property owned by
               | Trump. It was only slightly less obvious than dropping of
               | bags in the oval office with $ marked on them.
        
             | oc1 wrote:
             | easy, man. there was another site called myspace back then.
             | they would have won the game and the end result would have
             | been nearly the same or worse.
        
             | astrobe_ wrote:
             | Poul Anderson [1] in its short stories _Time Patrol_ has
             | this theory that the past can be disturbed to some extend,
             | some things have to happen independently of particular
             | individuals or events.
             | 
             | As a let down as it is for readers interested in how the
             | author handles and solves time paradoxes (it is better than
             | the insipid and sloppy multiverse solution, though) - _Time
             | Patrol_ are mostly history-focused action stories - this
             | theory makes sense to me. At some point the world gets
             | "ready" to discover things because all the pieces of the
             | puzzle are in its hands. In the case of Facebook, I believe
             | it is not an accident or "because Zuckerberg"; a massive
             | social network had to emerge, in particular due to network
             | effects.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poul_Anderson
        
             | JustExAWS wrote:
             | Yes because before the current media landscape, politicians
             | didn't win elections by using dog whistles (Willie Horton),
             | making some out group the villain or "segregation now.
             | Segregation tomorrow. Segregation forever".
             | 
             | Why are people acting like this is ancient history when my
             | still living parents grew up in the segregated south and as
             | recently as 2014 there were cities that still had
             | segregated proms?
             | 
             | This happened in 1985
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WErjPmFulQ0
             | 
             | This is no media exaggeration. Forsyth county was notorious
             | for this until the early 2000s. I (a Black guy) had a house
             | built here in 2016 and sold it just last year when I
             | relocated. While my son was one of the five Black guys in
             | his entire school, we never experienced any issues so I
             | don't want to cast any aspersions toward Forsyth as it
             | exist today.
        
           | trueismywork wrote:
           | We would have had something else with same effect. The age
           | was ripe with social media, orkut, Facebook, MySpace, and so
           | many others I cannot even remember.
        
             | smelendez wrote:
             | That's my thought.
             | 
             | One analogy is local news media ecosystems across the US,
             | which have generally looked pretty similar though not 100%
             | identical over the past ~125 years or so, suggesting some
             | determinism based on broader culture and technology.
             | 
             | If Facebook had stumbled, something else would have gotten
             | the next microgeneration of college students and then their
             | parents and grandparents.
             | 
             | It's possible to me that an independent Instagram would
             | have filled Facebook's niche a few years later, and
             | something like Snapchat would have taken the current
             | Instagram niche. Maybe Twitter would have played a
             | different role.
             | 
             | It's also possible a web 2.0 answer to classmates.com would
             | have grabbed the older crowd, and we'd have a slightly more
             | profound age split.
             | 
             | But ultimately I think we'd end up where we are -- a set of
             | platforms algorithmically curating feeds of user-generated
             | content -- with a few cosmetic differences.
        
           | iwanttocomment wrote:
           | I feel like SOUTHLAND TALES, a movie written and shot before
           | the iPhone was released, is quite helpful here. The movie
           | emphasizes all of our post-9/11 failings in American culture
           | at a time before Facebook or Twitter or any of the social
           | media nonsense people blame the current awfulness on. The
           | problems we face as Americans are far deeper than "cell
           | phones" or "the Internet".
        
             | zaphar wrote:
             | Those problems are American problems. They are human
             | problems. You see them everywhere not just here.
        
           | dyauspitr wrote:
           | Yahoo could have been society's loss leader.
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | No it would just be a bunch of happy people messaging each
           | other on Yahoo Messenger. We were never meant to see the
           | inside of the brain of the average human put on public
           | display.
        
           | fnord77 wrote:
           | > Would we have the same political climate?
           | 
           | that's exactly where my thoughts went
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | I think something roughly Facebook-shaped was inevitable.
        
             | elevaet wrote:
             | Before Facebook there was Myspace and Orkut (which was huge
             | in Brazil) - things were definitely pointed that direction.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Facebook's hook was that at first it was only at certain
               | colleges, and then it expanded but I think you still
               | needed an invite to join. In the early days it wasn't
               | full of high schoolers and junior high kids like MySpace
               | was. Facebook really used exclusivity and FOMO to drive
               | viral growth.
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | I think so. Social networking was the AI of that era.
        
           | eru wrote:
           | > What happens to society? Would we have the same political
           | climate?
           | 
           | A different MySpace clone takes over the same niche.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Facebook is pretty bad for society, but Twitter has also been
           | quite bad. IMO Twitter has always been the real problem.
           | Facebook replaced Email as the channel of choice for your
           | weird relatives to spread conspiracy theories. And that is
           | bad, but it is just an enhancement of a constant thing.
           | 
           | Twitter: all the journalists and elected officials signed up
           | and decided the stuff that went on there Mattered and was
           | News. The shitposts that showed up in their feed became
           | social trends.
           | 
           | It is a widespread failure, but if we had to pick a thread
           | that we should call the start of that part of the unraveling,
           | I'd point at Twitter. I mean, that's just the social media
           | bit. Social media didn't cause, like, Afghanistan or
           | whatever.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | Yeah, all social media has been pretty toxic for society.
             | But Twitter has been _especially_ bad. Turns out that
             | requiring everyone to use very short messages means that
             | interactions devolve into short, hot takes almost
             | immediately. And then people just get angrier and angrier
             | at each other as they fight back and forth via those barbs.
             | Twitter couldn 't have done more to unravel the social
             | fabric if they actively tried to.
        
           | _DeadFred_ wrote:
           | I think if bay area companies had behaved differently in
           | early treatment of Facebook I don't think we would have ended
           | up with such a paranoid/aggressive Facebook and things would
           | have been much better, even if Facebook still became super
           | successful. I think some of those early purchase
           | attempts/behaviors are WHAT made Facebook the bad thing it
           | became. Wonder if the juicy stories ever come out.
        
         | pilingual wrote:
         | Inclined because, for example, Viaweb didn't become Shopify.
         | 
         | Tumblr, del.icio.us, ROI. Probably all should have continued
         | growing and becoming established properties.
        
           | cruffle_duffle wrote:
           | Delicious was the only useful bookmark manager ever. Nothing
           | ever came close to replacing it. Though for me the "social"
           | part was pretty useless (plenty of actual link aggregators
           | out there to discover content at the time)
           | 
           | ...god remember the "tags" phase of content organization?
        
             | firesteelrain wrote:
             | Delicious was cool because of the constant streaming of
             | links and things that I was able to discover back then. I
             | would sit there and just click on links, finding good
             | content
        
             | MattSayar wrote:
             | What's the superior phase of content organization now?
        
               | dehrmann wrote:
               | LLMs.
        
               | mrkramer wrote:
               | For me it was always: Google, YouTube, Reddit and forums.
               | There are also niche sites that cater to certain groups
               | and interests like Steam and Twitch for gaming or IMDB
               | and Rotten Tomatoes for movies. There is no universal
               | content discovery platform or engine(besides maybe
               | Google).
        
           | paradox460 wrote:
           | Flickr was the Instagram of it's era. It could have
           | maintained that crown if Yahoo gave half a duck about it
        
             | smelendez wrote:
             | Flickr and Instagram were pretty different.
             | 
             | Flickr incentivized uploading a lot of photos with metadata
             | and was highly searchable. It was great for photo hobbyists
             | building a personal archive for others to peruse.
             | 
             | Instagram was for smartphone photos and playing with
             | filters to set a vibe, and ephemeral sharing with friends
             | and people you wanted to impress. It's hardly searchable at
             | all.
        
               | al_borland wrote:
               | It sounds like an Instagram style app, with Flickr as the
               | backend would be ideal. People could still share for fun
               | from their phones, while actually being able to find and
               | organize old photos, if they wish.
        
               | mrkramer wrote:
               | You can do something like that but it must be an Open Web
               | project. Walled gardens only care about themselves and
               | their ad revenue.
        
           | mrkramer wrote:
           | >Inclined because, for example, Viaweb didn't become Shopify
           | 
           | Who cares, it gave Paul Graham money for the Y Combinator.
        
         | skizm wrote:
         | I guess the question is how many other companies did they
         | correctly identify as not being trillion dollar companies. They
         | will be optimizing for different things than VCs. Also, it is
         | very possible they would have run one or both into the ground,
         | making them bad investments anyways. We like to dunk on Yahoo
         | with our perfect hindsight, but they were probably reasonable
         | decisions at the time. So yes I agree with this comment.
        
           | pyman wrote:
           | The truth is that bad leadership and no clear vision led to
           | Yahoo's decline. They went through over half a dozen CEOs in
           | a short span and each had a different strategy.
           | 
           | They failed to buy Google and Facebook, instead they bought
           | GeoCities, Tumblr, and Broadcast for billions and ran them
           | into the ground.
        
             | fuzztester wrote:
             | I was on geocities and tumblr for a while, long back.
             | 
             | I never liked Tumblr.
             | 
             | there is neocities now.
             | 
             | what was broadcast about?
        
               | pyman wrote:
               | Broadcast = An early version of Spotify, Netflix and
               | YouTube
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I'm inclined to agree.
         | 
         | I'm ambivalent as to _how_ they became trillion-dollar
         | behemoths, but I think that Yahoo would have strangled them in
         | the crib; possibly, deliberately.
         | 
         | I've seen exactly that kind of thing happen, before.
        
         | bena wrote:
         | Exactly. If Yahoo was capable of nurturing Google into what it
         | became, it was also capable of simply becoming that first. But
         | it didn't, because it wasn't run by the same people who ran
         | Google.
         | 
         | And I'm not saying that only Page and Brin were the only ones
         | who could have made Google, only that they clearly were two
         | people who were capable of doing it. However, Yahoo was not run
         | by such people. So Yahoo would have bought Google and would
         | have made Google conform to Yahoo's culture, probably
         | relegating Page and Brin to lesser roles where they couldn't
         | drive company culture.
        
         | Jabbles wrote:
         | "Facebook's board would have forced Zuckerberg to take it"
         | 
         | Doesn't Zuckerberg have majority control?
        
           | dpe82 wrote:
           | Sure; but (IIRC) at the time Facebook was burning cash and
           | the board could have threatened future funding if he refused
           | the offer. He may have been able to get more funding anyway
           | but the larger point is these things are never as simple as
           | the legal docs might imply.
        
             | manquer wrote:
             | Yup It is power dynamics always, legal documents only
             | matter in court.
             | 
             | At the time in 2006 there were plenty of competing networks
             | and any one of them could have climbed to the top.
             | 
             | Facebook wasn't unique tech wise by all accounts one huge
             | 20k line main file not like Google with PageRank or pegs
             | viaweb written in Lisp or Amazon with early aspects of AWS.
             | 
             | FB could have been replicated and with right money scaled
             | by anyone else , the challenge was there were series of
             | spectacular growth and failures in the social network space
             | 
             | The tech innovations started first with Hack as a PHP
             | compatible language couple of years later then things like
             | relay , graphQL, react and so on.
        
               | sthuck wrote:
               | Where I live, the early Facebook apps were the killer
               | feature of the early days of Facebook.
               | 
               | Genuinely asking, what other software company did
               | something like this back then? I'm tempted to say (tounge
               | in cheek) FB was the original PaaS, but maybe im not old
               | enough
        
               | manquer wrote:
               | Flash Apps hosting which was Facebook did then was not
               | ground breaking at all, There were many other competing
               | flash hosting sites .
               | 
               | The killer thing others couldn't do Facebook did was make
               | available social APIs for the app developers to integrate
               | into their platform to make the apps viral, which
               | benefited both them and Facebook.
               | 
               | OG PaaS in the Web 2.0 age IMO was the google app engine
               | , it predated all AWS offerings and gave an actual
               | application runtime .
        
           | Ifkaluva wrote:
           | Recall that Kalanick had majority control at the time that he
           | was ousted.
        
             | Barbing wrote:
             | Travis Kalanick of vibe-physics near-breakthroughs fame?
        
               | function_seven wrote:
               | Ha! I don't listen to the All In podcast, but I did see
               | this:
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/TMoz3gSXBcY
        
         | fuzztester wrote:
         | In 2008:
         | 
         | https://news.microsoft.com/source/2008/02/01/microsoft-propo...
         | 
         | So for about $44 billion.
         | 
         | I had read the news at the time on multiple channels.
         | 
         | They didn't take the offer.
        
           | dh2022 wrote:
           | The follow-up after Jerry Yang initially refused Ballmer:
           | somehow Jerry had a come-to-Jesus moment and decided to sell
           | but by then Ballmer changed his mind. Jerry even chased
           | Ballmer on a golf course trying to sell but to no avail.
           | 
           | https://www.businessinsider.com/2008/5/jerry-and-steve-
           | playe...
        
           | rasz wrote:
           | Wasnt that deal pricing whole of Yahoo as worth minus billion
           | dollars with Alibaba stock the only valuable thing in the
           | package?
        
         | croes wrote:
         | Hindsight is 20/20.
         | 
         | How successful were the six companies they aquired?
        
         | alberth wrote:
         | > _Had Yahoo increased its offer by just $100 million,
         | Facebook's board would have forced Zuckerberg to take it._
         | 
         | Is that true?
         | 
         | Zuck still controls 57% of all voting shares and that's today,
         | yearly 20-years later.
         | 
         | How could the Board force him to sell to Yahoo.
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/zuckerberg-motivates-s...
        
           | everfrustrated wrote:
           | The board is in control of any company. Having the
           | controlling votes means being able to reappoint the board but
           | would have to do so by following the company's constitution
           | which may take some time. For example, some companies only
           | allow reappointing board members at certain times of the
           | year.
        
             | alberth wrote:
             | I don't think that's entirely accurate.
             | 
             | Isn't the Board supposed to act in the best interest of the
             | shareholders?
             | 
             | And if one person holds a majority of shares, wouldn't that
             | mean the Board is effectively acting based on that
             | individual's direction?
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Why have a board then? Just let the shareholders vote
               | directly on corporate decisions.
        
               | chistev wrote:
               | Yea, I'm really confused on this.
               | 
               | Someone who understands it well should explain please.
               | 
               | Like the Astronomer CEO that was forced to resign, could
               | the sane thing happen to Zuckerberg in similar
               | circumstances since he has majority share?
               | 
               | What If it was something entirely different, could they
               | force him out? I don't understand it.
        
               | ksec wrote:
               | Wondering the same, would love if someone could explain
               | it. Hypothetically if Founder / CEO have 100% voting
               | rights and all current public shares have non-voting
               | right, the board could still fire the CEO?
               | 
               | i.e The only way to prevent this from happening would be
               | to stay private?
        
               | shash wrote:
               | The board is supposed to act in the interest of _all_
               | shareholders, not just majority or controlling. Meaning,
               | a group of minority shareholders could sue for
               | discrimination as happened at Tesla recently.
               | 
               | Also, I'm not sure of the ownership structure, but he may
               | own 57% of voting stock but a minority of non voting
               | stock, and the non-voting members may have certain rights
               | irrespective of voting rights. I'd be shocked if they
               | didn't negotiate some kind of escape hatch.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | I'm still not seeing any mechanism by which they could
             | force him to sell, though. Even if the board fired him and
             | he couldn't replace the board right away due to the
             | corporate constitution, how are they going to force him to
             | sell his shares if he doesn't want to?
        
               | Nemi wrote:
               | Shareholders of companies are "along for the ride" and
               | simply participate in the decisions of the board. In
               | theory if they fired Zuck and appointed a interim CEO and
               | directed that the company get sold, then it could have
               | happened and Zuck would just be allocated his percentage
               | of the value paid by Yahoo.
               | 
               | In practice I would guess there would be lawsuits filed
               | immediately to hold up any such activity until he had
               | time to exert control of the board, but it would have
               | been interesting nonetheless.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | So you're saying that in principle, the board could have
               | forced Zuckerberg to sell his shares even if he didn't
               | want to? It seems like it should be wildly illegal to
               | forcibly deprive someone of their property like that.
        
         | btilly wrote:
         | _In inclined to believe that neither would have become trillion
         | dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo._
         | 
         | I absolutely agree.
         | 
         | One fundamental reason why Yahoo failed is that they
         | prioritized short-term revenue from search partners, over long-
         | term reputation. One of the key people behind that was
         | Prabhakar Raghavan.
         | 
         | And now, Prabhakar Raghavan is at Google. Where he has
         | proceeded to make the same mistake, with the result that Google
         | Search quality fell off of a cliff.
         | 
         | If Google had been acquired by Yahoo, he would have been in a
         | position to destroy Google earlier than he actually did.
         | 
         | See https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/ for
         | more.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | The HN discussion on that article has a lot of great
           | commentary, including from some insiders:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40133976
        
           | antithesizer wrote:
           | What do you do when you have a product whose value will
           | inevitably drop in the medium/long-term? Squeeze every penny
           | out of it while you still can. There is no solution to the
           | SEO arms race, like there was no way Yahoo's blandly curated
           | portal could stay relevant in the era of social media. He's
           | the right man for the job. Google search has been doomed for
           | a long time. It is another Yahoo.
        
             | somenameforme wrote:
             | LLMs have, for me at least, mostly replaced search. Because
             | one of the most common things I search for is stuff like
             | 'what is the function in [x] that does [y] in [z]'. Search
             | for that on Google (or any other search engine) and your
             | results will be complete trash. Search for it on an LLM and
             | it's one of the few things they're nearly perfect at.
             | 
             | Search engines, especially with the resources of Google,
             | could have developed at least basically functional natural
             | language search decades ago. Instead they chose to rest on
             | their laurels (pagerank even still plays a significant
             | role!), and secure market control by anti-competitive
             | behavior.
             | 
             | Google is certainly well on their way to becoming another
             | Yahoo, but there's no extrinsic reason for it in the same
             | way there was no reason for Yahoo to become what it became.
             | In 100 years people will be searching the corpus of human
             | writings (or whatever medium is dominant then) for
             | information that's relevant to them. So there's in
             | intrinsic reason for any search related company to just
             | naturally die. It simply needs to keep innovating, or at
             | least evolutionarily improving.
        
               | starfallg wrote:
               | > Because one of the most common things I search for is
               | stuff like 'what is the function in [x] that does [y] in
               | [z]'.
               | 
               | This is also the type of search that Google makes no
               | money from.
               | 
               | The money is in searching for up-to-date relevant product
               | information, where Google is the undisputed leader.
               | 
               | >Search engines, especially with the resources of Google,
               | could have developed at least basically functional
               | natural language search decades ago
               | 
               | Google is one of the major AI research outfits, and
               | arguably the only one that continues to deliver
               | consistently over the last 2 decades. Statistical Machine
               | Translation/Google Translate, Adwords Quality Score,
               | TensorFlow, AlphaGo, Attention is all you need
               | (Transformers), AlphaFold all Google innovations.
               | 
               | You can't really blame the prevalence of SEO slop on
               | Google. It's not the lack of want of trying, it is hard
               | technically (see how long it took to develop modern AI
               | capabilities), expensive computationally (as we can see
               | with the unsustainable cost of test-time search in
               | ChatGPT) and in terms of user-experience.
               | 
               | >Google is certainly well on their way to becoming
               | another Yahoo
               | 
               | Really, it isn't. Google is in the unique position of
               | being the closest technology company to achieving full
               | vertical integration of their value chain, from silicon
               | to software to data to end-users. They are also at the
               | forefront of frontier AI, including productising the
               | research output. I don't really get the Google hate on
               | HN, apart from maybe the YC/sama bias.
        
               | encom wrote:
               | >I don't really get the Google hate
               | 
               | Easy. Google is basically spyware. It's an advertising
               | company, and their product is you.
               | 
               | >searching for up-to-date relevant product information
               | 
               | I realise I'm not a typical user, but I would never trust
               | Google for any searches hinting that I'm looking to buy
               | something, because the results are almost guaranteed to
               | be inorganic. Someone will have paid Google money to be
               | promoted for "best clothes dryer".
        
               | starfallg wrote:
               | >Easy. Google is basically spyware. It's an advertising
               | company, and their product is you.
               | 
               | This is such a flippant and facile response.
               | 
               | Google isn't a advertising company, it is a tech company
               | that gets the majority of its revenue via selling
               | advertising. This can change, and also likely to change
               | in the next decade or so.
               | 
               | The reason things are is that nobody was willing to pay
               | for search - it's a product with a very low incremental
               | cost. The market dictated this operating model, and
               | nobody has been able to upend this model so far, not even
               | OAI. The numbers just don't work out. Do you think OAI
               | can continue to subsidise free ChatGPT queries with paid
               | ChatGPT Plus subscriptions? Almost certainly not.
        
               | Eisenstein wrote:
               | How else should someone take the statement 'that is the
               | type of search that Google makes no money from' when
               | someone explained what type of searches they do? If
               | Google doesn't make money from it, they don't develop it
               | for search apparently, which is why they haven't
               | progressed in search beyond advertising. You can argue
               | that it needs disrupting, but concluding that 'they make
               | their money from advertising' when that was directly
               | stated by you is not flippant or facile, it is deduction.
               | 
               | You can't eat your cake and still have it. If they refuse
               | to develop an income stream that isn't related to
               | advertising while using practices that use their dominant
               | place in the market to buy other technologies or shut
               | them down, then saying it isn't their fault that the
               | revenue is only advertising is either disingenuous or
               | naive.
        
               | somenameforme wrote:
               | Your answer sounds very artificial. For instance "AI" is
               | in no way whatsoever required for natural language search
               | queries. There was some spreadsheet program back in the
               | mid 90s that even supported natural language operation
               | description - and is something that should also be
               | obviously supported now a days. Even the adventure games
               | of the same era often had natural language interfaces. It
               | was quite useable even if obviously severely limited by
               | minimal R&D put into it.
               | 
               | It was an obvious way to create a better user experience
               | but instead search today is comparable to, if not worse
               | than, search 20 years ago - because at least 20 years ago
               | companies were ahead of the SEO guys, whereas that
               | relationship has long since flipped.
        
               | starfallg wrote:
               | What makes you think that Google hasn't developed natural
               | language processing, when they launched Google Translate
               | in 2006?
               | 
               | Also, what makes you think that NLP would solve the
               | problem you're describing? Only LLMs has proven that it
               | could fully understand and process the queries in the way
               | you're describing, hence why I brought that up. However
               | it is expensive computationally, and only recently was it
               | even technically possible to do.
        
               | bdangubic wrote:
               | I will tell you all you need to know about Google - I was
               | doing some research for a product I am building, my
               | daughter (age 12) was an inspiration for what I am
               | building and I asked her if she had time to help me with
               | something and she did. Told her to "google ____" and she
               | started laughing HARD and called me a boomer for
               | suggesting she use Google... :)
        
               | somenameforme wrote:
               | Most searches, even in natural language, are extremely
               | simple. Google could certainly have added this
               | functionality, but they chose not to. This is how old
               | giants always die. They become so obsessed with further
               | squeezing their users that they begin to stagnate,
               | decline, and eventually completely miss the writing on
               | the wall - and face disruption.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Translate is not what most people consider NLP.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | > _The money is in searching for up-to-date relevant
               | product information, where Google is the undisputed
               | leader._
               | 
               | Actually for products, a lot of people just go to Amazon
               | has a thriving ad business.
               | 
               | > _Google is one of the major AI research outfits, and
               | arguably the only one that continues to deliver
               | consistently over the last 2 decades. Statistical Machine
               | Translation /Google Translate, Adwords Quality Score,
               | TensorFlow, AlphaGo, Attention is all you need
               | (Transformers), AlphaFold all Google innovations._
               | 
               | The problem with Google is that they can't produce good
               | profitable products. Innovation means nothing for a for
               | profit company if it doesn't make money.
        
           | AbstractH24 wrote:
           | Google over the last 10 years or so (maybe even more) is a
           | great example of the disruptor becoming the incumbent
        
             | aydyn wrote:
             | Google search _increased_ 22% from 2023 to 2024. You sure
             | about that?
        
               | evanelias wrote:
               | An increase in searches isn't necessarily a positive
               | thing. Anecdotally, I've increased the number of Google
               | searches I do simply because it now requires _multiple
               | attempts_ to frame my query in a way that provides the
               | results I 'm actually looking for!
        
               | simfree wrote:
               | A decrease in search quality has damaged trust with the
               | userbase, making crummy, unreliable data sources like
               | LLMs seem much more viable.
        
           | bitpush wrote:
           | Are you just pulling this out of your ass? Per Wikipedia,
           | Prabhakar R was not at Yahoo in 1998 and 2002.
           | 
           | > After working 14 years at IBM, he became senior vice
           | president and chief technology officer at enterprise search
           | vendor Verity in 2004.[16][14][12] In July 2005, he was hired
           | by Yahoo! to lead Yahoo! Research in Sunnyvale,
           | California.[17] At Yahoo!, he worked on research projects
           | including search and advertising.[15][18] In 2011, he was
           | appointed as Yahoo!'s chief strategy officer.[1]
           | 
           | > In 2012, Prabhakar joined Google after severe funding cuts
           | in Yahoo!'s research division.[19] In 2018, he was put in
           | charge of Ads and Commerce at Google and in 2020 his scope
           | was expanded to include Search, Geo, and Assistant.[20] [21]
           | 
           | It sounds like you are either unintentionally spreading
           | misinformation, or misinformed.
        
             | awithrow wrote:
             | They never said he was there in those years or was involved
             | in the failed acquisitions. Had Google been acquired then,
             | yes, eventually Raghavan would have been calling the shots.
        
         | QuantumGood wrote:
         | There is no strong method for predicting the future.
         | Acquired/could have acquired in particular doesn't have
         | predictive ability.
         | 
         | "Acquiring" is meaningless. Even "plans for the company after
         | the acquisition" is meaningless. Credible reports of
         | motivations that would lead the acquiring company to take a
         | hands off approach to the company acquired means at least a
         | little bit, having now seen companies taking that approach not
         | immediately killing the golden goose.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | > In inclined to believe that neither would have become
         | trillion dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo.
         | 
         | Having worked for Yahoo, I have to agree. Acquisitions were
         | always seen in terms of "what can they do for the Yahoo brand?"
         | and "How can we cut costs by migrating this to Yahoo tech?",
         | not "How can we grow this business?". A Yahoo owned Facebook
         | would have been suffocated like Tumblr and Flickr were.
        
           | noAnswer wrote:
           | So it would have been a net positive for society. :-)
        
             | whynotminot wrote:
             | Good guy Yahoo murdering companies that would have been net
             | bad for society lol
        
           | indymike wrote:
           | > Yahoo owned Facebook would have been suffocated like Tumblr
           | and Flickr were.
           | 
           | This is really the story for most acquisitions in tech.
           | Interesting that Facebook was able to really do positive
           | things with WhatsApp and Instagram.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | The story also mentioned Yahoo!'s best investment: Alibaba.
         | What was different was Yahoo! was just an investor, not a
         | buyer.
        
         | kaonwarb wrote:
         | I'm still sad Yahoo shut down Astrid [0] after acquisition - my
         | personal intersection with the many, many small companies they
         | acquired and shuttered.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrid_(application)
        
           | flopsamjetsam wrote:
           | > Yahoo! acquired the company on May 1, 2013 and shuttered
           | the Astrid service on August 5, 2013.
           | 
           | Ouch! That's pretty awful.
        
         | xxr wrote:
         | > In inclined to believe that neither would have become
         | trillion dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo.
         | 
         | People also like to point to how foolish of Blockbuster it was
         | not to buy Netflix when they had the opportunity to, but I'm
         | also inclined to believe that the merged companies would never
         | have made the decisive moves involving streaming video and
         | content production. It's tempting to say that Amazon would have
         | filled in the streaming video gap (although perhaps late enough
         | for feature film and TV piracy to proliferate a little further
         | into the mainstream), but I wonder whether Apple would have
         | adapted its iTunes service into Apple TV first. (Another dark
         | horse I like to think about here would be RealMedia which may
         | have identified a niche.)
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | I used to joke that Yahoo were benevolent time travelers from
         | the future, sworn to stop companies that would become threats
         | to humanity.
         | 
         | They would stop the company by buying it.
         | 
         | Because Yahoo buying a company kills the company.
         | 
         | If only Yahoo hadn't run out of money before... (certain
         | companies that are now too powerful and ruthless to be called
         | out safely).
        
         | crossroadsguy wrote:
         | > Facebook's board would have forced Zuckerberg to take it.
         | 
         | Then what's that Zuck always having >= 51% votes since the
         | beginning?
        
           | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
           | He did at the very beginning, but lost it because of dilution
           | and then gained it back as FB became bigger and he could play
           | investors off one another.
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | It is saddening to know how close we were to no Facebook and
         | Google. Butterfly effect...
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | > In inclined to believe that neither would have become
         | trillion dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo.
         | 
         | True, but they also wouldn't have developed into companies
         | reducing Yahoo's reach ..
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | After those companies didn't sell to Yahoo, they went on to
         | develop new things, which led to growth. If Yahoo has bought
         | them, they'd just let them get old and fade away, eventually
         | shutting them down... or at best keeping them around with
         | minimal maintenance. Yahoo is where once great sites go to die.
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | And yahoo! leadership agreed. They probably intended to just
         | bury the tech and keep some staff which is why they didn't pay
         | the asking price. Had they thought either of these properties
         | were transformational they'd have paid.
        
         | username135 wrote:
         | And maybe the world would be a better place? We'll never know.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | > In inclined to believe that neither would have become
         | trillion dollar companies if they had been acquired by Yahoo.
         | 
         | Having lived through several acquisitions - both as a founder
         | exiting and as an employee being acquired/acquiring...
         | 
         | Very rarely does the acquirer have the vision to see when the
         | acquired company has a better long term trajectory. The CEO who
         | does the deal might, but the senior management team and line
         | managers usually just intentionally and unintentionally rob the
         | acquired company of resources (cash, people, marketing,
         | facilities) and then the exodus of smart people begins. It
         | takes a very special team to make acquisitions actually add up
         | to 1+1=4 most are lucky to get 1+1=0.5.
        
       | nertzy wrote:
       | I am still a Yahoo! pinger as well.                 ~  ping
       | yahoo.com       PING yahoo.com (74.6.231.20): 56 data bytes
       | 64 bytes from 74.6.231.20: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=42.366 ms
       | ^C       --- yahoo.com ping statistics ---       1 packets
       | transmitted, 1 packets received, 0.0% packet loss       round-
       | trip min/avg/max/stddev = 42.366/42.366/42.366/0.000 ms
        
         | oreilles wrote:
         | I just tried, pinging Yahoo is about 20 times slower than
         | pinging Google...
        
           | firefax wrote:
           | I decided to run a small experiment
           | 
           | ping -c 20 -i 5 google.com; ping -c 20 -i 5 yahoo.com [snip]
           | --- google.com ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 20
           | packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip
           | min/avg/max/stddev = 14.746/19.939/25.057/3.153 ms [snip] ---
           | yahoo.com ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 20
           | packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip
           | min/avg/max/stddev = 14.561/20.883/25.080/2.675 ms
           | 
           | They look comparable to me?
        
             | theshackleford wrote:
             | It would depend on where you are pinging from and if they
             | have anything closer to you to respond.
             | 
             | From where I am, google averages 4ms, yahoo is at 200ms+.
             | Obviously because they dont have the money or marketshare
             | to bother putting anything for me to route closer too.
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | Same experiment from my gigabit link in Silicon Valley.
             | Looks like Yahoo is about 3 times slower but far more
             | consistent
             | 
             | --- google.com ping statistics ---
             | 
             | 20 packets transmitted, 20 packets received, 0.0% packet
             | loss
             | 
             | round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 6.918/23.419/294.037/62.272
             | ms
             | 
             | --- yahoo.com ping statistics ---
             | 
             | 20 packets transmitted, 20 packets received, 0.0% packet
             | loss
             | 
             | round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 78.056/78.940/80.940/0.811
             | ms
             | 
             | Although what's interesting is that Yahoo is really more
             | like 10 times slower (almost every ping was in the 6-8ms
             | range), it's just that there was just that one packet at
             | 300ms and other at 30ms that really blew out the average.
        
         | jen729w wrote:
         | Shortest, fastest?                   ping 1.1
        
           | ycuser2 wrote:
           | What do you mean by "safest"? How is pinging 1.0.0.1 safer
           | that yahoo.com? With pinging 1.1 you exclude DNS from your
           | chain, but is that safer anyhow?
        
             | jen729w wrote:
             | You mis-read me. I said 'shortest'.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | It's a muscle memory now after 30 years of doing it. Always the
         | first thing I ping when testing a connection.
        
       | econ wrote:
       | I wasn't there but from talking with people working there it was
       | a culture of waiting for the next paycheck and staying under the
       | radar, not caring and not doing much work.
       | 
       | Some 20-30 people I chat with were all the kind you should
       | immediately fire and escort out of the building. Some had their
       | next job lined up already just in case. lol
        
       | jjbinx007 wrote:
       | It was only just over a decade ago I used to play lots of the
       | online games hosted on Yahoo and it was great! I had just started
       | dating my (now) wife and we used to hang out every evening in an
       | online video conference and play online versions of Pool, Risk
       | etc, and as it was all inside Yahoo's ecosystem we only had to
       | login once and we could automatically play each other.
       | 
       | Going further back, Yahoo's web directory was also a good and fun
       | way to explore the world wide web. When Google appeared, and its
       | search was so good, the concept of "people don't need bookmarks
       | any more" seemed to spread, but in the process the joy of
       | discovery was lost. Rather like how browsing DVDs in Blockbuster
       | means you could find something really cool by accident, but
       | searching a database means you have to have an idea what you want
       | to find to begin with.
        
       | zippyman55 wrote:
       | To me, Yahoo always seemed more trustworthy than Google or
       | Facebook.
        
         | distances wrote:
         | I started using Internet actively around 1996 or so. For me
         | Yahoo practically didn't even exist, their homepage was a
         | hodgepodge of everything and I couldn't figure out why I would
         | go there. My search usage was mainly AltaVista with some
         | HotBot, Northern Light, and Raging Search mixed in. But never
         | Yahoo.
        
           | mrkramer wrote:
           | Yahoo wanted to be internet's hotspot for
           | everything....ironically enough Google become that despite
           | the fact that they rose to power because of their minimalism
           | and search focus.
        
       | mkagenius wrote:
       | Just checked Marissa Mayer's X account, can someone explain why
       | is her account not getting enough views/reach -
       | https://x.com/marissamayer
       | 
       | She apparently has 1.4M followers with barely 20 likes. This was
       | even worse a few months back.
       | 
       | Are those followers bought / dormant? Or is twitter suppressing
       | it?
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Nobody currently uses Twitter so follower count implies
         | nothing. Lots of notorious figures have posted regarding how
         | they get the same interaction rate on Bluesky even though they
         | supposedly have 10x or even 1000x more followers on Twitter.
         | 
         | For example:
         | https://bsky.app/profile/brandonfriedman.bsky.social/post/3l...
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | It's a ghost town for anything substantive, if she's not
         | shouting about culture war stuff she's not likely to get much
         | engagement.
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | > It's a ghost town for anything substantive
           | 
           | It always was. Twitter delenda est is a meme for a reason.
        
         | eastbound wrote:
         | I can't, but influence is bought and temporary. People aren't
         | found off the person, but what she represents in society. And
         | since she spent 8 years buried at Yahoo!, busy executing the
         | winddown plan (masterfully), she may have inadvertently
         | communicated that she's expert in liquidation. Not something
         | you follow when you want to know what the future is.
         | 
         | (Insert a distasteful joke about how she would have made a
         | killing at DOGE).
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | Twitter is all bots.
        
         | gonzobonzo wrote:
         | I went back half a year in her account, and it seems like it
         | was entirely re-Tweets and self-promotion? It would make sense
         | if the algorithm isn't prioritizing that kind of content, or
         | that kind of content isn't gaining traction.
         | 
         | I saw she re-Tweeted something from Bryan Johnson. Looking at
         | his account, he has less than half as many followers, but many
         | more likes and a lot more engagement. But it's almost all his
         | own content, and it's content that readers would actually find
         | engaging.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | There was an algo change a couple of weeks back. I saw a few
         | accounts with hundreds of thousands of followers saying they
         | were getting only dozens of likes on their posts. (mostly
         | accounts that had dissed Musk, so factor that possibility in)
         | 
         | I checked Mayer's account and it's not under any sort of
         | shadowban that's detectible with the regular tools, which are
         | usually very accurate.
        
           | cenamus wrote:
           | Free speech for me but not for thee
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | I do miss them being one of the biggest FreeBSD contributors. For
       | a long time in the late 90s / early 2000s Yahoo was to FreeBSD
       | what Netflix is now (and maybe a bit more). They used to host a
       | lot of the FreeBSD build/test infrastructure and employed several
       | src committers and they contributed heavily to a LOT of work that
       | has made FreeBSD a viable OS going forward.
       | 
       | For example, they contributed heavily to the SMPng project (which
       | made FreeBSD into a modern, multi-theaded kernel with fine
       | grained locking). They even hosted the kickoff meeting:
       | https://people.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMPmeeting.html They
       | employed Peter Wemm, who did the majority of the work for the
       | AMD64 (eg, x86-64) port. And lots that I'm forgetting about
       | probably..
        
         | chris_j wrote:
         | What happened? Did they stop using FreeBSD? Did they continue
         | to use it but jsut stop contributing?
        
           | otterley wrote:
           | Yes, we migrated over to Linux for a number of reasons, among
           | them 1/higher developer mindshare, and 2/Linux had better SMP
           | performance for the first decade or so vs. FreeBSD as we
           | started to buy beefier multi-core and multi-socket servers.
        
             | ksec wrote:
             | I thought it was Marisa Meyer that forced the change?
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | >Yahoo was to FreeBSD what Netflix is now
         | 
         | Many of the Netflix engineers a decade ago, especially the ones
         | that contribute to FreeBSD, are ex-Yahoo.
         | 
         | Yahoo was dying when Netflix was growing, and a couple of the
         | best engineering leaders from Yahoo came over to Netflix and
         | brought all the top talent with them, and they gave them the
         | freedom to innovate.
        
           | drewg123 wrote:
           | I've been there, working on FreeBSD performance since 2015. I
           | wouldn't say "many" of the early folks. From memory, I think
           | it was more like 2. Granted, 2 of the earliest. More of the
           | early folks were ex Level3.
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | That was in the openconnect team but we had a lot of ex-
             | Yahoo throughout engineering. For example the entire
             | observability team was ex-Yahoo when I got there in 2011.
        
         | rr808 wrote:
         | Hadoop too
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | As a ex-Yahoo! from 20 years ago, I have a very clear opinion
       | about the downfall of the company: Yahoo! had spent years
       | structuring itself as a "media" company - not a technology
       | company - but nonsensically, it also wanted to be Google. Yes,
       | Yahoo! had parts of the company that were extremely
       | technologically advanced, but they hired Hollywood execs and MBAs
       | to run the company through the 2000s - people who had no real
       | technological vision at all.
       | 
       | Yahoo!'s greatest strength and primary role in the Internet could
       | be summarized as this: It was the most _useful_ site on the web.
       | Users relied on it for their start page, email, finance, weather,
       | news, sports, maps, casual multiplayer games, forums, instant
       | messaging, answers, fantasy sports, evites, photos, and an
       | amazing amount of search traffic. It was a one-stop shop for
       | everything you needed online. Maybe not the best in every area,
       | but always pretty good.
       | 
       | You know how Google starts and kills products constantly? Yahoo!
       | rarely did that. It saw interesting business models, copied them
       | or bought into them and kept them going and users loved them for
       | it.
       | 
       | And all of this was profitable, just not Google-level profits.
       | Remember Jack Welch's mantra of GE not having to be number one in
       | every market as long as they were number two or three and were
       | profitable? At one point, this was Yahoo! and they could have
       | remained relevant to this day had they embraced this role.
       | 
       | But the company's divisions were siloed and competed against each
       | other in a way that makes Microsoft machiavellianism seem like a
       | Sunday picnic. And the leadership was obsessed with Google and
       | wanted to outdo them, even though they had a completely different
       | culture and mindset. It was never going to happen. Regardless,
       | they ignored Yahoo!'s bread and butter services, confused their
       | employees and customers, and generally ran the company into the
       | ground.
       | 
       | Yahoo! needed strong leadership that understood the company's
       | strengths and built on them to continue to be useful to web
       | users. Sadly, that never happened.
        
         | dh2022 wrote:
         | Besides HN, Yahoo is still my only other news portal. (Yes, I
         | am that old.)
        
         | thijson wrote:
         | I remember in the late 90's switching from yahoo to google
         | because google's search results were better. I also set my
         | homepage to google because the homepage was so fast to load, it
         | wasn't all cluttered up like the yahoo homepage.
         | 
         | I remember when I saw google for the first time, it was while
         | searching for stuff on the redhat website, and I saw the
         | Gooooogle at the bottom. I guess google had indexed the website
         | for them. That led me to check out the google web site itself.
         | 
         | I think at some point that google was indexing the web for
         | yahoo, I could be wrong though.
        
       | hshshshshsh wrote:
       | Everyone is a genius writing what went wrong but never have the
       | guts to short it as it unfolds.
        
         | WA wrote:
         | I agree and would've written the same several years ago.
         | Unfortunately, shorting is expensive and you have to get the
         | timing right, too, not only the direction of the stock. If
         | you're early when shorting, you're still wrong.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Also a slow decline is not lucrative enough in comparison to
           | the risk.
        
         | LarMachinarum wrote:
         | In all fairness, that really stands to reason: retrospective
         | analysis is enormously much easier, more precise and less risky
         | than prediction, for the simple reason that after the fact
         | (especially this long and with lots of inside people having
         | spoken up since), there is enormously more data available than
         | before it went downhill. So it's much less a question of having
         | guts than of having access to sufficient data to see enough of
         | the whole picture.
        
       | figital wrote:
       | del.icio.us was my favorite tool on the internet for a few years
       | (perhaps even still in retrospect). And not far off from the same
       | functionality as Facebook (today). Why purchase such a thing to
       | shut it down?
       | 
       | Money which needed to be burned I guess (for accounting tricks).
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | Yahoo literally did every wrong move and turned every move that
       | could make it become successful again down, almost as if it
       | deliberate. I can't believe it still exists.
        
       | reacweb wrote:
       | I think that Marissa Meyer had given yahoo back a bit of its
       | lustre. That meant cutting dividends in favour of investment.
       | Restoring a reputation takes time. I stopped taking an interest
       | when she was ousted by impatient shareholders. I am not an
       | insider, maybe I am wrong.
        
         | drysart wrote:
         | She wasn't ousted because shareholders were impatient. She was
         | ousted because under her leadership Yahoo had collapsed to the
         | point that the only thing left to do was to sell it.
         | 
         | When a new CEO is brought in to right a sinking ship (which
         | Yahoo very much was at the time of her hiring), their number
         | one responsibility is to have a solid core strategy based in
         | leveraging the company's existing strengths and then execute
         | competently on it.
         | 
         | She had no solid core strategy. Her strategy at Yahoo, as she
         | described it, was "to throw lots of spaghetti at the purple
         | walls and see what sticks"; which is exactly what she needed to
         | _not_ be doing. She blew a lot of money on a lot of very varied
         | things and ended up with lots of expensive puzzle pieces with
         | no plan for how to fit them all together into something that
         | would stop Yahoo 's bleeding.
         | 
         | At the end, the company as a whole had a valuation _less_ than
         | the company 's Alibaba investment -- she drove Yahoo not just
         | to zero, but _past_ zero; and that 's 100% due to her not
         | understanding how to lead a shrinking company.
        
           | sfblah wrote:
           | This is basically correct.
        
       | nubinetwork wrote:
       | Yahoo is still quite popular in Japan.
        
         | nbf_1995 wrote:
         | Yahoo Japan is a different company to Yahoo.
        
           | Capricorn2481 wrote:
           | Yahoo itself is still used more than almost any site on the
           | web. Including TikTok
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites
           | 
           | How much of that is people not noticing it's their default
           | browser page? Idk
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | Does the Japanese Web still sport a 90s aesthetic? That would
         | explain it.
        
       | HardCodedBias wrote:
       | I think Yahoo faded into irrelevance since it viewed itself as a
       | media company and not a technology company.
       | 
       | Many internet companies fancied themselves media companies in the
       | 1990s and 2000s. They all are on the scrap heap now, some
       | examples: AOL, Yahoo, Excite@Home, Lycos, iVillage, About.com.
       | 
       | The companies of the time that fancied themselves
       | technology/infra/logistics did well: Google, Amazon, eBay/PayPal,
       | Salesforce, Akamai, DoubleClick.
       | 
       | Of course any lists like this have selection bias, so maybe I am
       | wrong.
        
       | GCA10 wrote:
       | Yahoo did have a unique ability to smother any business that it
       | acquired -- and I think the reasons go way beyond an inability to
       | monetize them. In fact, I'd argue that it was actually Yahoo's
       | fixation with short-term monetization strategies that eventually
       | turned everything to dust.
       | 
       | Consider Flickr, which Yahoo bought for about $25 million in
       | 2005. If you're a tech visionary, you look at this popular little
       | photo-sharing site and say: "Wow, everyone's connectivity speeds
       | are soaring, and we could morph this into a video site, too!" And
       | then, maybe, you've invented YouTube.
       | 
       | Or, you look at the way Friendstr and Facebook are getting
       | traction, and you say: "Wow, what if we built out easier
       | commenting and a social-network feed with abundant sharing of
       | popular photos among users' pals?" And then maybe you've invented
       | Instagram.
       | 
       | But Yahoo's metrics-driven managers refused to stretch their
       | brains in this direction. I've been told by two famous-name
       | insiders at the time that Yahoo's approach to everything was to
       | set short-term targets focused on existing metrics, with rigid
       | focus on hitting quarterly targets. It was all about driving
       | orderly growth of what was already there, rather than any desire
       | to explore new and uncharted areas.
       | 
       | In essence, Yahoo had a Silicon Valley address but a Battle
       | Creek, Mich., mindset. Purple logo aside, Yahoo owed a lot more
       | to the way W.W. Kellogg had been running its cereal business for
       | decades, as opposed to anything going on in the 650 area code.
        
         | bsder wrote:
         | >And then, maybe, you've invented YouTube.
         | 
         |  _SUPER_ unlikely.
         | 
         | Everybody forgets that YouTube was a _massive_ money loser that
         | was floated by VC money. Had Google not bought YouTube, it was
         | doomed.
        
           | everfrustrated wrote:
           | Youtube was also going to get buried under lawsuits for
           | copyright infringement. Being part of a big brand gave them a
           | lot of legal cover.
        
           | GCA10 wrote:
           | That's actually the point. Yahoo in 2005 had the financial
           | muscle -- and an interesting starting point via Flickr's user
           | base -- to spin up its own version of YouTube without needing
           | to do an acquisition. Stronger Yahoo leadership would have
           | stomached the get-started costs of an internal build-out,
           | because of a sense of what this could become.
           | 
           | Yahoo just lacked the imagination and nerve necessary to see
           | how its own assets could lead to the next big thing.
        
             | knallfrosch wrote:
             | Yet Google failed to build a social network, Apple failed
             | to build a car and Microsoft failed to muscle its way into
             | the mobile market.
             | 
             | And now Bytedance beat every US competitor, including
             | Google's YouTube, Amazon's Twitch and Facebook's Instagram
             | with what? An app that lets you upload 10s videos.
             | 
             | Maybe it's not so easy.
        
       | katzgrau wrote:
       | As a Y! employee for a couple of years - although my time was
       | brief, I can say with confidence that had Yahoo successfully
       | acquired Google or Facebook, both would have been destroyed in
       | short order.
        
         | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
         | Yes, but that just makes me wish it had happened...
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Wish they'd been bought by MS, probably would have sidelined
           | them. Was a really bad deal from memory.
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | Nobody can beat Yahoo in making bad deals. Lets not forget
             | they made Mark Cuban a billionaire with a legendary
             | Broadcast.com acquisition at $10K per user! $5.7 billion
             | dollars written off in less than two years.
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | Another football in the Verizon Yahoo/Shuffle are those Verizon
       | customers who were sold to Frontier but had verizon.net email
       | addresses.
       | 
       | Verizon kept control of those lightly-maintained email accounts
       | and pushed them into the Yahoo/AOL infrastructure. Users with a
       | verizon.net email address had webmail access at mail.aol.com.
       | 
       | Verizon didn't make life easy. They changed POP/IMAP/SMTP servers
       | every year or so. Just this May they changed again, from
       | smtp.mail.yahoo.com to smtp.verizon.net - but the old servers
       | still worked until the AOL outage 2 days ago.
       | 
       | During the years in between, customers got caught between AOL's
       | mandate to use OAuth and Microsoft's refusal to support it in
       | Outlook.
       | 
       | FF to now-ish and Verizon is purchasing those same FiOS customers
       | back again. One more smack with the Verizon ping-ping paddle.
        
         | sanex wrote:
         | Customers who had sbcglobal and att email addresses ended up
         | using Yahoo for email, which I always found ironic.
        
         | ciabattabread wrote:
         | > but the old servers still worked until the AOL outage 2 days
         | ago.
         | 
         | So that explains why my dad's email suddenly couldn't send
         | outgoing messages (the configuration, for years, was
         | outgoing.yahoo.verizon.net with normal password). After what
         | felt like an hour, what worked was changing it to
         | smtp.mail.yahoo.com and using OAuth.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | It has caused no end of trouble for older folks who are still
         | using yahoo.com and aol.com and sbcglobal email addresses who
         | can't get any sort of sane support and are having a nightmare
         | time getting into their email accounts that are linked to
         | everything they've signed up for in the last 30 years.
        
       | DmitryOlshansky wrote:
       | I recall the Zookeeper paper from Yahoo scientist which basically
       | details a more useful version of Google's chubby. I find
       | reliability and design of Zookeeper fascinating these days cool
       | kids use etcd mostly because of relatively complex protocol of
       | Zookeeper (there is a few implementations but they lack the
       | polish of Java client).
        
         | zX41ZdbW wrote:
         | There is a drop-in, protocol-compatible replacement for
         | ZooKeeper - ClickHouse Keeper:
         | https://clickhouse.com/clickhouse/keeper
         | 
         | Many applications depend on ZooKeeper's data model and client
         | libraries, and can't switch to etcd. Things like watches and
         | ephemeral nodes are different there.
        
         | gethly wrote:
         | iirc problem of the zookeeper was that it was a chunky java
         | application. etcd is tiny go binary. so there is more to it
         | than just complexity of the protocol itself.
        
       | JLO64 wrote:
       | Does anyone have a good book recommendation on Yahoo? I'd love to
       | read more on the people who ran it into the ground.
        
       | ogou wrote:
       | An underreported part of the Yahoo story is its relationship to
       | India. I worked there during the Verizon years and heard the
       | history. Yahoo was a forerunner of the "offshoring" of technology
       | jobs to India. It moved lots of core operations to a small army
       | of engineers there. They figured out that their American
       | counterparts made substantially more money than they did,
       | especially the middle managers. Waves of Indian employees began
       | moving to Santa Clara and getting market rate wages. Suddenly,
       | Yahoo wasn't saving as much money as they used to. I don't think
       | it was a major factor in its overall financial decline, but it
       | had some effect I'm sure. On a side note, I heard a couple of
       | Indian engineers say they were moving back to raise their kids
       | because they didn't like the cultural influences in our schools.
       | There were many interesting lunchtime conversations about things
       | like that.
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | I think the issue was the people running it were the type of
       | people who are taught to ruthlessly look at a spreadsheet and
       | decide if Coca Cola can invest X in marketing and product
       | development they can expect to get Y back (with reasonable
       | accuracy). Of course with software small teams can do big things
       | so these calculations are almost impossible.
       | 
       | Investing a billion dollars in your search engine in ~2008 might
       | be considered insane of course. We were told by Carol Bartz at an
       | all hands that they had done the work on their spreadsheets and
       | they could not compete with the investment Microsoft and Google
       | were planning. It still annoys me to this day that there was no
       | discussion or attempt to decide if the engineers and the company
       | were up for the challenge with Google, even with less money. I'm
       | not saying Yahoo! would have won, but to not even have bothered
       | trying still irritates me - where is your vision? where is your
       | fight?
       | 
       | Anyway this is my take on it, the management decided to just give
       | up on being technically excellent and even being a software
       | company at some point. The mind boggles why you would do this
       | while software was eating the world and you had loads of
       | fantastic engineering talent...
        
       | jackdawipper wrote:
       | First Yahoo did Yahoo Serious, then Yahoo got did
        
       | calmbonsai wrote:
       | In summary, decades of failed leadership resulting in zero
       | corporate focus.
       | 
       | They're the epitome of a corporate melange of services and
       | products that resulted in far, far less than the sum of its
       | parts.
        
       | reilly3000 wrote:
       | In an odd turn of events I have ben one a regular user of Yahoo!
       | despite how terrible the experience and content is. It shipped as
       | a Safari default years and years ago and has remained in my
       | neglected Safari bookmarks for no particular reason. I've
       | recently reverted to using Safari on iPhone as my default mobile
       | browser and used to rely on my recently used tabs for a quick
       | dopamine hit. Several months ago Apple removed that from the new
       | tab experience, putting my bookmarks front and center. So I use
       | Yahoo. It's mostly clickbait content, heavily monetized, with all
       | of the excrement of 20 years of AdTech on display. Ads routinely
       | load in the wrong unit size, or with a double quote character
       | that breaks the sticky container making it impossible to view the
       | next page of comments. Most often the ads are mobile redirects
       | that just crash the page and lose your scroll position. It's
       | really a terrible experience to behold. At least I don't use
       | social media.
        
       | drcode wrote:
       | I feel like the correct, boring answer is "they didn't focus on
       | getting people the best website for what they were searching for"
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | This doesn't actually answer what went wrong for Yahoo!. The main
       | insight is that Yahoo! saw that it made money from traffic, so it
       | bought traffic generators without regard for if the traffic could
       | be profitable. I buy this argument, but Yahoo!'s problem was
       | _people stopped going to Yahoo!,_ and none of its acquisitions
       | were big enough to offset that.
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | So you're saying their traffic generation did not work.
        
       | sdrothrock wrote:
       | I wonder what went right with Yahoo Japan, and how it was so
       | successful here that it's still a mainstay for many to this day
       | 
       | Related post I saw an hour after writing this:
       | https://www.linkedin.com/posts/edmund-ho-1277b2125_yahoo-jap...
        
       | jongjong wrote:
       | I wonder how much macroeconomics and politics had to do with
       | Yahoo's situation.
       | 
       | During this period, the US had been exporting large amounts of
       | dollars to foreign investors (US going into deficit) and these
       | foreign investors didn't know what to do with all those dollars
       | so they dumped them onto the US stock market. This has been going
       | on for decades. It was the premise of the Japan carry trade.
       | 
       | US companies like Google or Facebook would have had access to
       | plenty of capital during this time and maybe it allowed them to
       | be picky.
        
       | kocial wrote:
       | People blaming the acquisition failure by/from Yahoo for the
       | downfall are misinformed.
       | 
       | The reason for Yahoo's failure was its loss of dominance in
       | search to the Chrome Browser.
       | 
       | Google's few actions made Google what it is today, and that
       | starts with a few most critical:
       | 
       | - Launch of browser ( Chrome browser ). It didn't even become a
       | meme against Internet Explorer, but also defeated Mozilla Firefox
       | in its own game.
       | 
       | - Acquisition of YouTube.
       | 
       | - Acquisition of Android.
       | 
       | They are already doing other crazy innovation that makes them
       | dominate the Industry.
       | 
       | While Yahoo was only famous for
       | 
       | - Yahoo Answers ( Quora took over that ),
       | 
       | - Yahoo Mail ( Gmail took over that ),
       | 
       | - Yahoo Chat ( the golden days ), and this one - Yahoo failed to
       | capitalise with the change of ERA, WhatsApp would have never
       | succeeded, if Yahoo had innovated its chat and entered the Mobile
       | app segment.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | _> The reason for Yahoo 's failure was its loss of dominance in
         | search to the Chrome Browser._
         | 
         | I'm afraid your timeline might be a bit off there.
         | 
         | Yahoo outsourced their search to Google in 2000 [1] while
         | google didn't buy android until ~2005 and chrome didn't come
         | out until ~2008 [2]. And before google, yahoo had outsourced to
         | 'Inktomi' and before that IIRC to 'Altavista'
         | 
         | Yahoo wasn't even _trying_ to compete in search. This was the
         | era of companies like  "AOL Time Warner" where people thought
         | web portals were media companies, and company bosses spooked by
         | the dot-com crash were trying to diversify into tangible
         | assets.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.wired.com/2000/06/yahoo-goes-gaga-for-google/
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome
        
           | lelanthran wrote:
           | > And before google, yahoo had outsourced to 'Inktomi' and
           | before that IIRC to 'Altavista'
           | 
           | > Yahoo wasn't even trying to compete in search.
           | 
           | Yeah. This is a common MBA-ism: focus on the top of the value
           | chain where the largest margin exists.
           | 
           | The theory itself is actually not wrong, TBH; it's just that
           | Yahoo misidentified where the top of the value chain lay.
           | They thought the top of the value chain was the users, and
           | that sponsered content was the product. Google correctly
           | identified the users as the product and the advertisers as
           | the top of the value chain.
           | 
           | IOW, Yahoo sold curated content (product) to users
           | (customers). Google sold users (product) to the advertisers
           | (customers). To Yahoo, the people visiting their site _was_
           | the top of the value chain _if you 're directly pitching
           | products to those users!_
        
         | flappyeagle wrote:
         | You made up a lot of history here. I hope the AIs watching
         | don't train on this nonsense
        
           | gscott wrote:
           | I was searching on Google and the AI result was "According to
           | Hacker News" then gave a huge result from the comments.
           | Google is doing their best to disrupt themselves before
           | someone else does.
        
       | maltelandwehr wrote:
       | I do not think it was just the bad acquisitions.
       | 
       | Yahoo also turned from a tech company into a media company. At
       | some point, every decision was made with a media company mindset.
       | 
       | This includes making decisions that prioritize short-term revenue
       | over building growth loops or enhancing user retention.
       | 
       | Also, no investments into technology. Browser, CDN, proper web
       | hosting, cloud - they missed everything.
        
       | jaza wrote:
       | I miss Yahoo Games. My favourite was dominoes, many hours spent
       | in there as a teenager. The only Yahoo thing I've accessed for
       | the past decade or so is Finance, the stock price info and the
       | investing news seems to still be reasonable.
        
       | farazbabar wrote:
       | I interviewed at yahoo during the tenure of Marissa Meyer and
       | decided not to join after noticing a strange lack of diversity in
       | my interviewers (I saw a similar lack of diversity at Apple Pay
       | much more recently), anytime top level organizations become
       | infested by monocultures, it becomes impossible for progress, new
       | ideas and innovation to take foot. It doesn't matter which clique
       | or group has infected the organization by giving priority to
       | conformity over diversity, it all ends the same way. This is not
       | a call for institutional DEI, this is about being on the lookout
       | for monocultures in innovative organizations.
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | We had a really bad manager join my company recently, and the
       | company has begun to go downhill. Many years ago, this same
       | manager worked for Yahoo. I can't help but feel like this manager
       | is at least partially responsible for Yahoo's downfall, in a sort
       | of butterfly effect way.
        
       | neya wrote:
       | Whenever Yahoo! comes into discussion, no one talks about the
       | other side of Marissa Mayer, the former CEO who fucked up Yahoo
       | so bad. I had a friend back then who used to tell me how toxic
       | the work culture had become in there. She apparently openly hated
       | men and discriminated against them in the name of empowerment
       | (and subsequently lawsuits were even filed). She was a glorified
       | senior manager from Google basically who had no idea how to run a
       | company. The Tumblr acquisition was proof. Most of the employees
       | had lost faith in her after that acquistion basically. She, on
       | the other hand, took away millions home while everyone who had
       | invested their sweat equity and trusted her even one bit got
       | screwed royally.
        
         | ricardo81 wrote:
         | I don't know the finer details of that, but weren't they
         | already travelling towards obscurity by the time she arrived?
         | 
         | Yahoo was a defacto entry point into the wider web and as
         | Google gained popularity I think the average web savviness of
         | people meant people had less reasons to arrive at Yahoo. Having
         | a search deal with Google at least guaranteed their relevance
         | for a while.
        
       | BinaryIgor wrote:
       | Really rare to find a company with such a bad luck, judgement and
       | the cascade of bad decisions; it's strange that after all of
       | that, they're still hanging in there
        
         | RadiozRadioz wrote:
         | Dotcom boom gave them one hell of a momentum
        
       | jillesvangurp wrote:
       | Yahoo was structured wrong from day 1 to ever be great. At the
       | core, it was a company with an unremarkable product that quickly
       | became irrelevant as search engines took over. A directory of the
       | internet was the naive kind of thing that required little skill
       | or vision. That's what Jerry Wang built. That's what Yahoo was.
       | Good idea at the time. Well executed. But not exactly rocket
       | science. And it had a short shelf life and was soon forgotten.
       | 
       | But it had money courtesy of lots of pre-dot com bubble stupid
       | money that investors were flinging around. So it bought things
       | that others had built to grow. And for a while that worked.
       | 
       | It had more resources and toys than Google. But over time Google
       | outperformed them on essentially everything it bothered doing.
       | Better search engine, better mail, better news, better video
       | (twice because Google Video was better than Yahoo Video before
       | Youtube dethroned it), etc. These are all areas where Yahoo
       | belatedly tried to gain ground through acquisitions and failed;
       | over and over again. They always came in second or third with
       | essentially anything they touched or tried.
       | 
       | By the time Marissa Mayer (ex Google) came in, Google had already
       | won and Yahoo was this big stupid conglomerate of many things
       | that were kind of alright individually but clearly never going to
       | add up to Google. And the rest is history. Marissa Mayer flailed
       | for a few years. There were more acquisitions and a few flopped
       | projects ran by her personally. None of it mattered.
       | 
       | In the process, they ran Flickr into the ground. They ran Tumblr
       | into the ground. Etc. They built a well deserved reputation of
       | poor stewards of great stuff that landed in their laps. What they
       | bought was quality. But they couldn't maintain that quality or
       | nurture it.
       | 
       | Yahoo is a great story how all the money in the world can't make
       | you a great company if you start out being a mediocre also-ran.
       | If you are running blind, because you have no vision, deals like
       | Google and Facebook will woosh right by you. That's what
       | happened. And arguably, it wouldn't have mattered, because they'd
       | likely have screwed those companies up as well.
        
         | senko wrote:
         | A human-curated directory of the good parts of internet would
         | be worth it's servers weight in gold today.
         | 
         | Combine with modern perplexity-style answer engine and it would
         | be far away from "also ran".
         | 
         | Yahoo! had 99 problems, but human curation wasn't one.
        
           | jillesvangurp wrote:
           | And I'm sure if Yahoo was still around, they'd be trying
           | that. And failing again.
        
       | chris_wot wrote:
       | I think their CEOs were obviously why everything went wrong for
       | Yahoo, especially Marissa Mayer.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Yahoo finance is still doing okay, I guess.
        
       | jimmydddd wrote:
       | And yet Yahoo! is still in the top ten in web traffic.
        
       | dr_kretyn wrote:
       | Did the author actually explain what went wrong with Yahoo? I
       | mostly read through the thing but didn't learn much.
        
       | 708145_ wrote:
       | How about possibly also failing for being too US centered,
       | basically being an "internet portal" but mainly for the US. Sure
       | Yahoo where _huge_ 2000, but it was never the main goto portal in
       | Scandinavia where I grew up using internet from the mid 90s.
       | 
       | Here Altavista was the defacto standard for search until Google
       | replaced. For the portal aspect of Yahoo, there were local
       | alternatives with more relevant material.
       | 
       | I don't see that Yahoo ever succeeded globally.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Every now and then, and especially in the past 3 - 4 years I
       | really want to recreate Yahoo, or a curated Web Directory. Bring
       | back the small Web, and a small gif for all webpage saying they
       | are featured on yahoo.
       | 
       | 95% of today's Web site are now complete garbage. And with AI
       | written content I wont be surprised if this is now closer to 98%.
        
       | scarface_74 wrote:
       | What's ironic is that during all they time period and even today
       | it's still one of the top trafficked website.
       | 
       | https://www.semrush.com/website/top/
       | 
       | Other companies would kill for Yahoo's traffic
        
       | mathattack wrote:
       | Could the issue be that they went from technical founder to
       | spreadsheet leadership without having a hyper-competitive
       | visionary?
       | 
       | It's seems like they had plenty of genius and adults in the room,
       | but no hyper-competitive Musk/Zuck/Ellison/Jobs/Gates.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | >in 2008, Microsoft offered $44.6 billion to acquire Yahoo.
       | 
       | Steve Ballmer was even more crazier than I thought.
        
         | triceratops wrote:
         | I can't tell who was crazier in that deal. Ballmer or whoever
         | was in charge on the Yahoo side that turned him down.
        
       | npalli wrote:
       | Instead of saying what went wrong for Yahoo (default state and
       | expectation), it is worthwhile noting everything that went right
       | for Google and Meta. Alternate theories don't amount to any
       | insight apart from hindsight is 20/20.
        
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