[HN Gopher] Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing
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Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing
Author : teleforce
Score : 129 points
Date : 2025-07-24 01:41 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.infineon.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.infineon.com)
| transcriptase wrote:
| "Quick! How can we use this to gather data for ad targeting?"
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| So much data collected for targeting ads, only to finally
| conclude that the only product I'm interested in buying is a
| handful of cool mmWave sensors from Infineon.
| belZaah wrote:
| Amazon with all its power and incentive still can't figure out
| there's a limited number of toilet seats I might need. Linkedin
| is still offering me (50ish male, 30+ years in it, 15+ years of
| teaching in universities, board member etc) jobs as a
| kindergarten teacher. If anything, I'm amazed they are still so
| bad at this.
| actinium226 wrote:
| Don't worry, with the new AI tools they're going to get a lot
| worse
| fragmede wrote:
| > Linkedin is still offering me (50ish male, 30+ years in it,
| _15+ years of teaching in universities, board member_ etc)
| jobs as a kindergarten teacher.
|
| What's wrong with that? It sounds like you've got plenty of
| relevant experience!
| NitpickLawyer wrote:
| Heh, people detection, gaze detection and people hotspots
| detection (i.e. where people mostly stand, say at an
| intersection) have been a thing for 15-20 years now, I
| consulted on such a project in the 2000s, using simple mobile
| cameras that were placed in a van, the van moved, and they'd
| make "maps" and sell that data to advertisers who chose where
| to place fixed/changeable ads banners. They eventually got that
| data from cell providers, and didn't need the cameras anymore.
| transpute wrote:
| _" What Is mmWave Radar?: Everything You Need to Know About
| FMCW"_ (2022), 30 comments,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35312351
|
| _" Inside a $1 radar motion sensor"_ (2024), 100 comments,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40834349
|
| _" WhoFi: Deep Person Re-Identification via Wi-Fi Channel Signal
| Encoding"_ (2025), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44685869
| Liftyee wrote:
| Pleasantly surprised to see electronics parts manufacturers on
| front page HN. The advancement of sensors nowadays is staggering
| - I'm reminded of the recent airborne dust sensor that's
| literally orders of magnitude smaller because it uses a new
| backscatter detection mechanism. All this technology available at
| very reasonable prices too.
| monksy wrote:
| It is nice to see more technically oriented things on the main
| page. It is frustrating to see very high level more businessy
| topics.
| integricho wrote:
| And webtech topics are equally boring and/or frustrating.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| It is fascinating to me how 'hackers' went from being people
| who operated at the margins of established technology (2600,
| Capn Crunch anyone?), to being the literal establishment, in
| the sense that probably a good chunk of the 'hackers' here
| work at one of the big 5 or plausibly could.
| RossBencina wrote:
| What's the best "Margins News" site today?
| ivape wrote:
| Slashdot is HN minus good behavior and a touch of 4chan.
| Their site is such shit with the ads though.
| hdgvhicv wrote:
| Slashdot was certainly dead after taco left
| therein wrote:
| Interesting that it happens to be the harmonic frequency of
| oxygen. For these power levels it is probably fine but something
| to keep in mind.
| parsimo2010 wrote:
| If you're worried about things exploding or something, don't
| worry. Unless you were exciting a fuel/air mixture up to the
| combustion point you have nothing to worry about. So that would
| take a deliberate change to the chemical makeup of the air and
| much much much higher transmit power levels.
|
| But I guess you should be careful if you are trying to modify
| this into an RF pulse welder and someone left their cutting
| torch gas cylinders venting nearby. </s>
| isopede wrote:
| That band is often chosen _because_ of the absorption band of
| oxygen. Significant attenuation at those frequencies means it
| limits range, allowing for higher frequency reuse and less
| interference over a greater area.
| platybubsy wrote:
| Wouldn't it be the same if you just decreased the
| transmission power?
| scoreandmore wrote:
| I've played around with this (the KIT-CSK-BGT60TR13C). It is a
| very interesting gadget and the kit doesn't need much
| configuration. In an afternoon I made a car detector for my bike
| that detects the presence of an approaching car from behind. I
| thought I had a winning startup idea then found out this idea has
| existed for years. :(
| ivape wrote:
| Those implementations might still suck.
| thebruce87m wrote:
| They don't suck. The Garmin one is also a rear light. It
| integrates with the bike computer to show detections.
|
| When a car approaches from behind you get a visualisation on
| the bike computer showing you how far away the car is and an
| audio alert. If the car is approaching fast you get a
| different audio alert and the light flashes differently to
| warn the approaching car. It also detects up to three cars.
|
| There might be improvements to be had but the implementation
| is pretty solid.
| ivape wrote:
| Ah. The Garmin Varia looks like it's $200-300. Would be
| hard to go up against a brand like that, but wonder if you
| could compete on cost. The margins look great.
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| Not even that. I think I had mine for under 150 (on some
| sale). Also, there are a few cheaper alternatives, but
| some tests have shown them to be less reliable (either
| false positives, or worse - false "all clear").
|
| There's one feature they all miss. They only measure
| relative velocity to You. That's definitely better than
| nothing, but in my experience the most dangerous drivers
| aren't necessarily the fastest ones, but those who pass
| too closely. So, something like "angle of approach"
| measurement would be a feature I'd personally be willing
| to switch my Varia for something else.
| debian3 wrote:
| There is tons of cheaper alternatives now. Some chinese
| brand. The implementation is particularly hard to get
| right (how to avoid object that enters the radar field of
| view like passing next to a fence among other tricky
| scenario like a car that follow at the same speed as you
| but suddenly accelerate to pass you, etc). A lot of
| competiting radars will have false positives or
| negatives. That's why Garmin is still the favorite
| product on the market. Wahoo just released one as well,
| and the reviews are quite positive so far. Bryton makes
| one, Magene, Giant, Trek, igpsport, etc.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| There's some cheaper knockoffs but they tend to struggle
| with false positives, poor integration with our device,
| or weird noncompliant USB ports. (Most versions of the
| Garmin are still micro-usb so they're not perfect either)
| purpleidea wrote:
| I'd like to know about this product, got more info? Not a bot,
| just a cyclist who's fed up of drivers who don't care about my
| safety.
| blutack wrote:
| Garmin do one called Varia
| scrpn wrote:
| Could you share how you did it? Interested in this as a hobby
| IshKebab wrote:
| Can it detect the distance of the car? If so what's the
| range/accuracy like?
| reflexe wrote:
| Tie that chip to a beamformer (silicon labs have a few) and you
| have a phased array radar, which is a radar that does not move at
| all (pretty cool in my opinion)
|
| Also, 15usd is not cheap for this kind of chip. You can buy a
| full wifi 7 rf/modem or a 4 core arm64 soc with this kind of
| money.
| unturned3 wrote:
| You can't use an external beamformer with this chip; it has the
| antenna built into the package itself. The chip doesn't have
| pins for RF input/output to bypass the built-in antenna.
|
| 60GHz radar is very different from WiFi. 15USD actually seems
| about right for the functionality this chip offers.
| Animats wrote:
| What's cute about this is how far they went to make hobbyists
| happy. There's a way to connect it to Bluetooth and WiFi, and an
| Android app. There's compatibility with some Adafruit products.
| That's unusual for IC data sheets.
|
| This is a phased array device. Angular resolution 20 degrees,
| range resolution 1 meter. It's not a Doppler radar, so it can
| detect fixed objects. So if you're using it for people detection,
| you have to tell it where the fixed objects are. A ceiling
| mounted unit will see the floor. OK for people counting and such.
| Range is only 10 meters.
|
| If you just want a motion detector to turn on a light, and IR
| isn't working for you, there are cheaper microwave detectors.
| technics256 wrote:
| What about for things like moving objects? I've used the AD
| pluto system but looking for something more affordable
| amelius wrote:
| > What's cute about this is how far they went to make hobbyists
| happy.
|
| Professionals are using hobbyist tools more and more, since
| these tools are just so much easier to use and don't require
| wading through datasheets which is like filling out tax forms.
|
| Also IoT usecases require flexibility in connectivity.
| brookst wrote:
| Plus, rapid prototyping makes it easier / more likely to
| bring a volume product to market, _and_ selling the same
| parts to hobbyists and manufacturers amortizes R &D costs
| more widely. It's just makes a ton of sense all the way
| around.
| goochphd wrote:
| As far as seeing and ignoring fixed objects, you can also
| remove any returns that have a near-zero velocity in radar and
| focus only on those objects that are moving.
|
| Of course, indoor settings have a lot of non-stationary objects
| as well that might not be targets of interest to you, like
| fans, curtains blowing in the breeze, etc. So you can also
| develop algorithms to remove those signatures too.
|
| Seeing fixed objects can be beneficial as well, for example, if
| you have a sensor deployed in a room but you don't know a
| priori what the room looks like. Longitudinal results and long
| range statistics can take you pretty far in seeing the room
| extents and layout and furniture, etc. Though a lidar sweep is
| better if you can get it
| actinium226 wrote:
| Feels like various companies have tried sticking this in
| smartphones and no one has yet found a use for it. At least in
| the smartphone form factor.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_4#Motion_Sense
| regularfry wrote:
| Apple went full LIDAR instead. The extra resolution means you
| can go way beyond presence/motion/gesture detection.
| transpute wrote:
| https://www.androidpolice.com/google-pixel-4-killed-motion-s...
|
| _> Regulatory issues were likely a major factor that led to
| the demise of Soli and Motion Sense on future Pixel models.
| Soli operates in the 60GHz frequency, which is reserved for
| military and government use in India.. Many of the Google Pixel
| 4 's Motion Sense gestures are available.. Nest Hub's Soli
| radar extends far enough to detect when you're sleeping, and to
| track your breathing._
| Catbert59 wrote:
| Have a look at Hi-Link from China (on Aliexpress).
|
| They offer 50GHz, 10GHz, 24GHz and 60GHz FMCW radar module boards
| for 10-30EUR which are easy to reverse engineer on firmware and
| PCB level.
|
| A lot of them are CW radars, a few FMCW and they also use the
| Infineon 60GHz radar chips. Very unusual for Infineon: with all
| tools and datasheets available without signing a NDA. Down to the
| register level.
|
| There's an interesting Chinese company around (ICLink with their
| ICL1122/ICL1112) which offer highly integrated radar ICs. They
| can spit out raw ADC measurements of their downmixed baseband
| using Quad SPI at 20 or 40MHz when switching on their debug mode.
| Price range: ~10EUR. But datasheets are difficult to find.
| Example board: LD2410S.
|
| The analog ones are easy to play with. You just need a DAC to
| drive their VCO and then can sample the I/Q pins with an ADC.
| That how a lot of the 24GHz modules (like the LD1125H) work.
| progbits wrote:
| I got one of those cheap waveshare 60GHz modules with heart rate
| detection a few years ago. My goal was to build a sleep tracker -
| stick it under the bed pointing up, detect getting in and out of
| bed and falling asleep.
|
| Unfortunately even just pointed straight at me with no
| obstructions and nobody else in the room the data was more or
| less random noise...
|
| I wonder if now (after few more years of development, more
| reputable manufacturer and more money) it is worth trying again?
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| _Unfortunately even just pointed straight at me with no
| obstructions and nobody else in the room the data was more or
| less random noise..._
|
| What steps did you take to limit the detection bandwidth? SNR
| is often a bandwidth problem, not a sensitivity problem.
| amelius wrote:
| Can this be used to monitor people through walls?
|
| Could it be used as a "life" detector in collapsed structures
| after earthquakes?
| Catbert59 wrote:
| 60 GHz is pretty much Line of Sight. If you can't see it - it
| will not work.
| ethan_smith wrote:
| 60GHz is actually poor for through-wall detection as this
| frequency is heavily attenuated by building materials - lower
| frequencies like 24GHz or UWB radar would be more suitable for
| both applications you mentioned.
| amelius wrote:
| Why do you say 24GHz and not, e.g., 100MHz? (Apart perhaps
| from it being within a reserved band).
| mikewarot wrote:
| An antenna large enough to work at 100 mhz would be
| impractical. That's a wavelength of 3 meters, and incapable
| of reliable detection of objects less than about 0.7 meters
| in all dimensions (1/4) wavelength, not to mention the
| required size of the antenna array
| amelius wrote:
| Update: chatgpt told me that the wavelength (3m) is too
| large to detect humans, antenna size would be impractical,
| more power would be needed for transmission, and
| reflections are more of a problem than with higher
| frequencies.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Pretty cool, I imagine it's only a matter of time until they're
| plug and play with Home Assistant
| radicality wrote:
| I don't know how similar is to this board, but I've already had
| this 60GHz gadget running with esphome connected to
| homeAssistant for a few months! :)
|
| https://www.seeedstudio.com/MR60BHA2-60GHz-mmWave-Sensor-Bre...
| yehat wrote:
| Thinking of starting a project to detect rainfall/snow/mist - has
| anybody used those mmWave sensors in a similar application? I've
| researched some of those and seems many are build for specific
| application, like a car rain sensor, which hardly provides
| broader output to apply further modeling.
| chasd00 wrote:
| obstacle avoidance for rc airplanes would be nice, maybe combine
| it with one of the autopilots out there. Learning to fly rc
| airplanes is pretty easy these days, the flight controllers can
| hold your hand through just about everything.
| tamimio wrote:
| It looks great but the range is not, I already have some project
| idea in mind but with that range it won't work.
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