[HN Gopher] Open Sauce is a confoundingly brilliant Bay Area event
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Open Sauce is a confoundingly brilliant Bay Area event
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 297 points
       Date   : 2025-07-23 10:22 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | I went to this and really enjoyed myself. Do you like
       | enthusiastically interrogating teenagers about robots they've
       | made? You should, it's really fun!
       | 
       | I also got to play a 3D printed violin, and meet a lady who had
       | built a terrifying battlebot that was too vicious to be allowed
       | in the arena at the event as it would have broken straight though
       | the safety plexiglass.
        
         | aaronbrethorst wrote:
         | _meet a lady who had built a terrifying battlebot that was too
         | vicious to be allowed in the arena at the event as it would
         | have broken straight though the safety plexiglass._
         | 
         | I think we all deserve to see a video of this battlebot. It's
         | been a tough week.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | I have now made it my life's mission to compete in these
           | events with my newest creation, suicidebomberbot.
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | Sadly I forget to take photos of that one! I got some
           | pictures of the 3D printed violins though: https://gist.githu
           | b.com/simonw/e5be5cbe96073c09a468307e4cb61...
           | 
           | Those are by https://www.neoluthy.com/
        
             | aaronbrethorst wrote:
             | Very cool. Thanks for sharing!
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | > Do you like enthusiastically interrogating teenagers about
         | robots they've made?
         | 
         | Definitely one of the joys of being a FIRST robot league
         | parent/volunteer.
        
         | laidoffamazon wrote:
         | I was there too and was looking for you! My friends all used
         | your OpenSauce tool
        
       | zxexz wrote:
       | Jeff Geerling is one of my favorite public figures (I'm not sure
       | how far or if I'm stretching the definition of public). I keep
       | meaning to subscribe to his patreon, I mean that's the least I
       | could do - I think he's the only creator I consume the content of
       | on 4+ platforms. And occasionally he shows up here too. I just
       | love the sheer "making things" energy, and all the open work he
       | does.
       | 
       | If there was, say, a Patreon equivalent that was just a static
       | site that displayed an address to send weird or excess hardware,
       | cash, etc to, that would be so ideal!
        
         | Flipflip79 wrote:
         | Strongly agree for the same reasons. I don't subscribe to his
         | stuff for any particular niche, I just enjoy the "this is a
         | thing I am going to learn lots about and make a video".
        
         | poemxo wrote:
         | Same, I read everything he writes. I remember reading a bunch
         | of his stuff when I was getting into ansible, and then all his
         | Pi stuff especially when CM4 came out. It's a strange sort of
         | parasocial relationship but for nerds!
        
         | granra wrote:
         | This may not matter to everyone but he is very pro-life and
         | attended anti-abortion protests in the past. While I don't know
         | his current stance but you can find some disturbing writing on
         | his blog if you go back far enough:
         | https://www.jeffgeerling.com/articles/religion/abortion-case...
        
           | pohuing wrote:
           | I think you meant to write anti choice not pro choice.
        
             | granra wrote:
             | Thank you, I edited it to pro-life
        
           | fxtentacle wrote:
           | I find it odd that you call it "disturbing". He studied
           | "Divinity and Theology" and the first sentence says that
           | someone asked him to "outline the Church's response to
           | abortions", which he then did, mostly by quoting articles
           | published by the church.
           | 
           | (We probably both disagree with him on the topic and the
           | arguments, but that's secondary to my question.) Which part
           | of him stating his opinion is "disturbing" to you?
        
             | granra wrote:
             | Fair enough, I may not have picked the best example while
             | skimming it quickly (he seems to have thousands of posts on
             | his blog). I didn't like him using the word "pro-abortion"
             | though (and not pro-choice) which to me seems to be used to
             | villainize the other side.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | Yeah, I'm thinking no one is _pro-abortion_.
        
               | ToValueFunfetti wrote:
               | The terminology issue of abortion gets insane airtime for
               | something that I have to assume has never been
               | meaningfully persuasive to anyone. The guy thinks you
               | think it's okay to kill babies. You think the guy thinks
               | it's okay to control women's bodies and deny them medical
               | care. At that point, who cares if he wants to call your
               | position "pro-abortion" and you want to call his position
               | "disturbing"?
               | 
               | Are people really wavering in the middle, eager to pick a
               | side but terrified of being labelled as anti-choice or
               | anti-life? Maybe kids are deciding their position based
               | on which words sound nicer rather than agreeing with /
               | rebelling against their parents? And these kids already
               | know enough that "pro-abortion" means "villain" to them?
               | 
               | You rarely (or never) see a discussion about, say, Trump
               | turn into a litigation of whether it's okay to call the
               | opposition libtards/rwnjs/SJWs/MAGAts, but that stuff has
               | to make up more than half of abortion discussion. Is it
               | just that people are loath to actually talk about the
               | issue at this point and this is another outlet?
        
               | granra wrote:
               | What I saw as disturbing was the content of the post,
               | failing to see that he wasn't directly voicing his own
               | opinion on the matter.
               | 
               | I didn't like the use of the word "pro-abortion". I
               | generally address them as pro-life even though I don't
               | like that it indirectly indicates that the other side
               | would be "anti-life" but I agree that it's not productive
               | to get into a flame war on terminology.
        
               | happyopossum wrote:
               | > I didn't like him using the word "pro-abortion" though
               | (and not pro-choice) which to me seems to be used to
               | villainize the other side
               | 
               | Considering that the pro-life side is typically called
               | anti-woman or worse, the scales are hardly unbalanced
               | against the pro choice side.
        
               | granra wrote:
               | Logically I see your point. But one side is fine with the
               | other side having the opinion to not have an abortion
               | under any circumstances while the other is fighting to
               | take the right away from anyone to have an abortion. So I
               | feel like one side has more reason to go for the anti-*
               | card, although I don't think it's very productive.
        
               | nixgeek wrote:
               | So you approached "Who is Jeff?" by driving by his blog,
               | searching across thousands of old and new posts, seeking
               | out things you find triggering, and then went to HN to
               | say you found this? That's one way to spend Saturday, I
               | guess!
        
               | granra wrote:
               | I don't think he's a bad person. But when an
               | artist/content creator/public persona has such
               | fundamentally different values from me on an issue like
               | this I can't enjoy the content anymore (I guess I can't
               | "separate the art from the artist"). Having the opinion
               | is fine with me but attending protests where women are
               | being harassed for entering abortion clinics is
               | problematic to me (this is a post I had seen but could
               | not find again today).
               | 
               | Someone pointed this out on mastodon a while back and it
               | somehow made its way to me. I only mentioned there being
               | thousands of posts to explain why I only skimmed the
               | article to provide an example. I was trying to not spend
               | my entire day on this.
               | 
               | This was just suppose to be an "FYI" comment because
               | knowing this affected me.
        
             | ksynwa wrote:
             | The last two paragraphs
        
           | jrowley wrote:
           | I had no idea about his staunch anti choice stance. Pretty
           | gnarly stance to say abortion is unacceptable in all cases
           | (including incest, rape, etc). This is good to know and
           | changes my perspective on him. Thank you for sharing.
        
           | WorkerBee28474 wrote:
           | Good for him.
        
       | joshu wrote:
       | i was there. it's an awesome event. it's like maker faire but if
       | it were run by feral youtubers. like half of the exhibits are
       | some sort of cursed side quest. i got to drive the crazy oshcut
       | simulator. i love it.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Yeah, I was wondering to the degree it was different than the
         | Maker Faire. (Took the daughters there for years until it shut
         | down. Covid? I think it's back on bur I'm no longer in the Bay
         | Area.)
         | 
         | Maker Faire got crowded and a bit repetitious from year to
         | year.
         | 
         | Maybe you can characterize -- is Open Sauce has slightly less
         | art, slightly more tech? That's my impression watching a few
         | videos now.
        
           | nrp wrote:
           | I've exhibited at Maker Faire a couple of times and visited
           | many times, and exhibited at Open Sauce twice.
           | 
           | Early Maker Faire (in the Bay Area) was a mix of art
           | booths/vehicles coming out of Burning Man storage and
           | independent makers showing their projects and inventions.
           | Then it rapidly commercialized with company booths taking
           | most of the show space, and then it finally imploded
           | financially. The recent resurrected version is less
           | commercial, much smaller, and aimed more at younger children
           | and their parents, but is overall not that far off from the
           | Make origins.
           | 
           | Open Sauce is very much Creators (content and otherwise) and
           | independent makers, growing in scale every year. It works
           | well, in part because the company/sponsor booths are no
           | larger or flashier than the hacker/maker booths.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | I've spoken with a few conference organizers about this--
             | how do you please sponsors enough to make them want to come
             | back the next year, but also make it so their booths /
             | areas on the floor don't turn into boring "whatever-
             | conference" spaces.
             | 
             | It's a balance and so far Open Sauce seems to have done
             | okay there; but a couple sponsored booths felt a bit more
             | corporate/salesy and out of place this year.
             | 
             | You could tell people would kind of give them a wide berth
             | compared to walking around other areas, where people were
             | more densely packed around all the booths.
        
               | pininja wrote:
               | The balance during the first two years felt amazing. I
               | was so energized by the first days that I spent the
               | second days revisiting to a ton of makers I'd met the
               | first day to talk more. And I still didn't see
               | everything.
               | 
               | This year my friends and I felt it swayed a bit far to
               | sponsored booths. There were fewer cool experiences (like
               | the mini-golf) and I'd seen everything in one day. We
               | wondered if the cool booths got denied in favor of ones
               | that could pay more.
               | 
               | We still had great conversations and met incredible
               | people, but felt we had to work harder to find it.
               | 
               | That said.. I think William's team has been in a deficit
               | each year and he said in his OpenSauce+ video how he is
               | trying to be more sustainable.. I still remember buying
               | the $69.69 early early bird ticket on the way out of 2023
               | for 2024 just to help them cover existing costs.
               | 
               | I really hope they figure it out. It's such a great
               | environment and has a great team behind it
        
       | obscurette wrote:
       | As a teacher I have become more skeptical about whole maker
       | movement. Don't get me wrong - I really appreciate what has
       | become possible. I couldn't even dream about most of it when I
       | grew up in seventies in Soviet Union. I use a lot of open source
       | hardware and the results maker movement myself as a hobbyist and
       | as a teacher.
       | 
       | But the problem is that while kids like it a lot, it doesn't
       | translate to engineering careers. Kids don't want to become
       | engineers as result, they want to become content creators,
       | tinkerers etc. Even rather good students with a lot of potential
       | see all this engineering stuff more as a media career or a fun
       | hobby.
       | 
       | PS. I don't say the engineering hobby isn't cool and fun. I don't
       | say that maker movement doesn't produce incredibly cool and deep
       | stuff. I'm not even saying that it's the only reason why there is
       | a shortage of engineers. But it's certainly contributing because
       | I see it.
       | 
       | I'm a member of local engineering community and I see a lot of
       | stuff like the quality of civil engineering sinking and we're all
       | paying for mistakes in it. I see a lot of local production
       | closing only because all R&D engineers are 60+ and planning to
       | retire.
        
         | staindk wrote:
         | If everything on show at open sauce were those stupid 3D
         | printed dragons I'd agree with you. But the maker movement is
         | massive and interesting and goes very very deep.
         | 
         | You can self-learn as much about engineering as you'd learn at
         | university. Most kids eventually pivot from wanting to be
         | astronauts/influencers to something more realistic.
         | 
         | IMO tinkering is an amazing hobby which will benefit you in
         | whatever direction your career ends up going in.
        
         | bl4ckneon wrote:
         | I would argue that it does turn more people onto engineering
         | paths and will result in more engineers. But it could just be a
         | cool hobby! Does every person who is interested in cooking
         | become a chef? Every person who is into sports become an
         | athlete? Music a musician?
         | 
         | With tech becoming more prevalent, people making more things
         | and people repairing more things, I think it's an overall good
         | thing. Also if they become content creators, then so what?
        
         | djaychela wrote:
         | > But the problem is that while kids like it a lot, it doesn't
         | translate to engineering careers.
         | 
         | I think there has always been that though. When having a guitar
         | was cool and people thought they'd be famous doing it. Of
         | course 0.00001% actually managed it, but some craft out a
         | career in music or related areas such as being studio engineers
         | etc. (I did)
         | 
         | And for some it shows that it is possible, that people like
         | them can be enabled and make their own stuff.
         | 
         | It might be that they're are organisations needed to bridge
         | this new gap and get people into more formal engineering, but
         | they'll also hopefully realise that people like them might work
         | one day at top tier engineering companies.
        
         | conorbergin wrote:
         | I don't think the fact that you can make fairly serious
         | mechatronic devices with pocket money can conceivably be a bad
         | thing for engineering as a discipline. However this does mean
         | there are a lot of people that own a 3d printer that will never
         | be good engineers.
        
           | geerlingguy wrote:
           | I think 98% of 3D printers go towards printing trinkets for
           | organization and figurines.
           | 
           | But I'm glad to be able to get into a 3D printer for an
           | affordable price to do the other things. Probably wouldn't
           | have happened without the mass(ish) market adoption.
        
             | conorbergin wrote:
             | Oh absolutely, I flatter myself to think I use them for
             | "serious engineering", and I am well aware of my debt to
             | Warhammer players who don't want to pay Games Workshop
             | prices.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | > ... while kids like it a lot ...
         | 
         | How is this a problem?
        
           | Barrin92 wrote:
           | the intertwining of entertainment or fun with learning is a
           | problem because it teaches kids that if something isn't fun
           | it isn't for them, the "infotainment science" genre that's
           | very common these days I suspect is detrimental to people
           | pursuing STEM the moment they encounter what those
           | disciplines are like.
           | 
           | Neil Postman used to make this point about TV politics and
           | children's TV. Because TV as a medium must be show business,
           | people were taught that if it isn't show business it isn't
           | politics. When kids got spelling lessons on Sesame Street
           | they weren't taught to learn languages but learning how to
           | watch TV.
        
         | fishbacon wrote:
         | > Even rather good students with a lot of potential see all
         | this engineering stuff more as a media career or a fun hobby.
         | 
         | This seems positive, no?
         | 
         | I love the idea that young people want to make stuff and tinker
         | in their free time.
        
         | proverbialbunny wrote:
         | If they really like building stuff like this they can get a
         | career that does it, like Embedded Engineer or Firmware
         | Engineer type roles. And if it's just a hobby that's great too.
         | 
         | I'm not sure about the media part, is it because of Youtubers?
         | If so that sounds like wanting to become the modern version of
         | a movie star. In that situation maybe encourage them to do a
         | multimedia class at school and see if they like it.
        
         | positron26 wrote:
         | > they want to become content creators, tinkerers etc.
         | 
         | Because there's no incentive alignment in the market to
         | cooperate on larger works.
         | 
         | I've been grinding away to solve this exact problem.
         | https://prizeforge.com/vision (don't log in yet. deploying
         | things and everything will be deleted)
        
         | okayishdefaults wrote:
         | I encourage people to learn to program especially if they
         | aren't pursuing a software engineering career. Someone that
         | knows a specific domain that can see it through the lens of an
         | expert at another will understand their domain in a way many
         | others cannot. They will be able to break down problems into a
         | collection of manageable chunks. They will learn valuable
         | lessons that show up when you begin to intimately think your
         | way through specific problems.
         | 
         | People may start out with the idea that they can be content
         | creators. They'll have to go through several steps from
         | planning, iteration, implementation, analyzing success or
         | failure, etc.
         | 
         | I wanted to make video games as a kid. Then it was being a pro
         | gamer. And then it was physics. And then it was linguistics.
         | And now I'm rounding out the end of a software engineering
         | career. I didn't know how to program, and I wasn't particularly
         | mathematically inclined. This led me down several paths all
         | around the idea of generally being a better user of technology.
         | 
         | One of the most seemingly random and yet greatest contributions
         | to my path in life was playing EvE Online. I learned logistics,
         | collaboration, tactics, strategy, spycraft, improvisation,
         | mental fortitude, and even how to administrate LDAP servers. In
         | no way was this a pursuit toward an engineering career.
         | 
         | I'm also a lifelong musician, but there was a significant pause
         | through my twenties due to lack of means. Now that I'm a
         | programmer, I've been able to intuitively command my knowledge
         | of music theory because it's systematic and documented
         | thoroughly.
         | 
         | Learning to play Counter Strike taught me how technique and
         | approach is just as important as mechanical skill. I can
         | specifically recall a tutorial regarding instantly headshotting
         | someone as you round a corner without the need to flick your
         | mouse. You simply anchor your crosshairs to the corner your
         | pivoting around, place it at head height, and click when you
         | see a head. This is an extremely valuable lesson in abstract.
         | 
         | Learning to play Street Fighter competitively was informed by
         | my experience with learning instruments and specifically key
         | components of Jazz. Improvisation, syncopation, consistency,
         | timing, and training the other person to expect one thing and
         | immediately subvert that expectation all translated well.
         | 
         | I am a champion-ranked Rocket League player. To me, my car is
         | an instrument. I practice it like I practice any mechanical
         | skill that I want to make second nature. Repetition, technique
         | refinement and acquisition, control, and composition of all
         | skills simultaneously are shared between these two things.
         | Because of Street Fighter, I also approach it as a fighting
         | game. Attacking your opponent's mental stack is key to high
         | level success in the same way.
         | 
         | David Sirlin's "Play to Win" taught me the value of removing
         | artificial constraints. I seek to explore the bounds of any
         | problem space to their fullest extent and use that knowledge to
         | exploit opportunities without changing the space I'm in. This
         | is a book about applying Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" to Street
         | Fighter and not directly abstract in the least.
         | 
         | Factorio is a common programmer obsession. Because of this
         | game, I have an intuitive mental model of algorithms and data
         | structures, separation of concerns, fault tolerance, and how
         | different parts of any system interact. It's not abstract math
         | in my head- it's Factorio.
         | 
         | My father started his career as a draftsman for oil companies,
         | and his command over his hands has always inspired me. Reading
         | "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" showed me that I could
         | engage abstract thought at will. This would come up later when
         | I read "Thinking, Fast and Slow" and I was able to draw
         | connections between artistic pseudo science and an intellectual
         | understanding of different modes of thought.
         | 
         | I am a veteran. My job was being a Crypto Linguist. My
         | experience in the military taught me the value of motivation,
         | rigor, and discipline. I failed basic Spanish multiple times in
         | high school and yet could dream in Korean with the right
         | environment supporting me. These skills and lessons are key to
         | becoming an expert at anything.
         | 
         | I dismantle opponents in Rocket League by applying mental stack
         | management from Street Fighter, tactical prowess from EvE,
         | discipline and motivation from the military, acquisition of
         | mechanical skill from learning instruments, and exploitation of
         | existing mechanics from "Play to Win". Nearly everything I've
         | learned has created a rich tapestry of thought that I pull
         | from.
         | 
         | I am now a successful, specialized software engineer with a
         | long career. I stumbled into this, and I've never been able to
         | succeed with formal higher education. I attended several high
         | schools, often switching mid-semester. This destroyed my
         | ability to get the ball rolling in mathematics. I could write a
         | compiler before I truly understood what math was. Everything
         | from my childhood acted as the foundation for where I am today-
         | even if it was "pointlessly" meandering my way through trying
         | to make a video game, a better MySpace page, process diagrams,
         | drawing, setting up Linux, audio engineering, etc.
         | 
         | People don't take a direct path to their dreams. They evolve
         | and their former experiences inform their future goals,
         | choices, and opportunities.
        
         | preommr wrote:
         | > But the problem is that while kids like it a lot, it doesn't
         | translate to engineering careers.
         | 
         | Absolutely baffling comment.
         | 
         | Like if kids started eating healthy and the complaint was 'yea,
         | but they're not interested in growing up to be professional
         | nutrionists'
        
           | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
           | But when instead they want to become broscience bloggers and
           | influencers and sell healthy eating courses, that's a
           | problem, to put it mildly.
        
             | PieTime wrote:
             | It's the end result of building a system of engagement over
             | meaningful interaction. The more time spent watching ads
             | disguised as content, the greater the profits.
        
               | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
               | Also don't get me started on parasocial relationships on
               | twitch outcompeting real relationships.
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | A lack of critical thinking skills is a fundamental
             | problem, but that is a threat to government and
             | corporations.
             | 
             | People have lost the ability to distinguish signal from
             | noise. We have been programmed to chase incorrect proxies
             | for good!
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Kids don't have to like the things you want them to like. They
         | lead their own lives, so long as it's mostly fulfilling and
         | happy, what's the problem? Don't be the figurative parent who
         | tells their kids what job they should get.
        
         | 127 wrote:
         | Engineering career is not a goal, but a means. The goal is to
         | build things that people use and you can make a living out of,
         | on scale.
        
         | Dylan16807 wrote:
         | I don't see how you go from "it doesn't cause engineering
         | careers" to "it's one of the _reasons_ there 's a shortage of
         | engineers".
        
         | ookblah wrote:
         | that's not a maker problem, that's a social media modern day
         | problem.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | Parents don't usually send kids to those things with some grand
         | career plan for them in mind, but to occupy the offspring with
         | something that isn't cartoons. Finding what they want to do in
         | life via such activities is just a bonus.
         | 
         | Meanwhile the shortage of engineers is actually a shortage of
         | everyone, as demographics shifted towards there being fewer
         | children overall.
         | 
         | Regarding solutions all eyes should now be on Japan, as they're
         | a harbinger state - crises they have tend to repeat elsewhere -
         | and they have had this problem for decades now.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I've had a different experience. It probably has to do with my
         | emotional makeup.
         | 
         | I _really like_ engineering; especially the _delivery_ part.
         | That 's where I give the results of my work to others, and they
         | use it. It's been that way, since I was a kid.
         | 
         | The _delivery_ part means there 's a fairly significant amount
         | of "not fun" stuff, like Quality Assurance, Documentation, and
         | Support.
         | 
         | I don't especially _like_ that part, but the end goal has
         | always made it worth it.
         | 
         | It's been my experience that companies like to pay for the
         | _delivery_ part. For some reason, delivery is important to
         | them.
         | 
         | I'm also "on the spectrum," so process and repetition have
         | always been something I can dig. I find comfort in structure
         | and Discipline, which, in my opinion, are required elements of
         | "engineering," as opposed to "coding."
        
         | throwaway13337 wrote:
         | Maybe the kids are just optimizing for the currency that they
         | think matters most: attention.
         | 
         | They might even be right.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | > Kids don't want to become engineers as result, they want to
         | become content creators, tinkerers etc. Even rather good
         | students with a lot of potential see all this engineering stuff
         | more as a media career or a fun hobby.
         | 
         | Well, let's see, would you rather make your money slaving away
         | in some corporation for absurdly low pay, or pointing a
         | cellphone camera at yourself and attracting an audience of
         | worshippers that could make you squillions with the right
         | sponsorships?
         | 
         | The problem isn't the maker movement; it's the broader problem
         | that "influencer" is the new "rapper". Everybody thinks they
         | can do it, and the younger generations are so much
         | disproportionately sicker with main-character syndrome that
         | they think they deserve the fame and riches of the best and
         | luckiest, even though the Cool Career Pigeonhole Principle says
         | they probably won't get it.
         | 
         | I mean, ultimately, you gotta love the work itself, otherwise
         | why bother. I love game development, but I know I'm never gonna
         | be John Carmack, or even John Romero. I keep doing it for the
         | satisfaction I get from doing the work. Maybe the maker
         | community needs to emphasize that aspect more to counteract
         | influenceritis. Or maybe we need to instill more of a sense of
         | duty and responsibility in our young people, so that the
         | smarter ones will step up and take on engineering jobs out of a
         | sense of service to our civilization.
         | 
         | With narcissism being the defining characteristic of society in
         | the USA, going into the highest reaches of power here, I don't
         | know that that will be possible for a while yet.
        
         | patrickhogan1 wrote:
         | Is having more tinkerers or Bill Nye's really a bad thing?
         | 
         | From what I've seen at maker and science fairs, these events
         | often attract students who feel overlooked in schools that
         | heavily prioritize sports. How many schools have pristine
         | football fields, while the physics teacher is spending money
         | out of their own pocket to build hands-on experiment kits, just
         | to show students that physics is more than what's in a
         | textbook? (That was the case for my dad)
         | 
         | These fairs open kids eyes to a broader world. One that
         | celebrates creativity, problem-solving, and scientific
         | curiosity.
         | 
         | Not every student needs to become an engineer. What matters is
         | that they feel hopeful about the future and engaged in
         | something positive, instead of turning to drugs or escapism.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | This is depressingly common, and sadly the casualties usually
           | don't stop at STEM classes but include most other subjects
           | too. I'm not going to say that sports aren't important in
           | their own right, but it really bums me out that other classes
           | are so often getting neglected (and in some cases shuttered)
           | in their favor.
        
             | gosub100 wrote:
             | In my hometown the football team never got lavish treatment
             | (but I am aware of that problem in the midwest/south
             | particularly), but what upset me so much was seeing the
             | salaries paid to the school superintendents. In a modest
             | CoL area, a school superintendent does not need to be
             | making $600k+. There should be a salary cap on jobs like
             | that because the extra money does not add value.
        
               | thewebguyd wrote:
               | > In a modest CoL area, a school superintendent does not
               | need to be making $600k+. There should be a salary cap on
               | jobs like that because the extra money does not add
               | value.
               | 
               | It's especially disgusting when you realize just how
               | little teachers are paid. Where I live the superintendent
               | makes ~$300k. Average teacher salary? $49k-$65k. This is
               | a HCoL area too, you can't live on that.
        
               | cosmic_cheese wrote:
               | As someone with family who used to be a teacher, yes
               | their low compensation is infuriating, especially when
               | speaking about those who deeply care about their work and
               | its impact on kids. Their workload is high to start out
               | with and only becomes that much greater when they go out
               | of their way to make sure their classes are well attended
               | to and prospering.
        
             | bigbuppo wrote:
             | I've seen STEAM and SHTEAM tossed around as they add art
             | and history to the mix. It's clear at this point that
             | sports were a mistake.
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | Exactly, well said. Events like this -- and teachers like
           | your dad! -- influence kids in ways that are even more
           | important than career orientation. Not every student is going
           | to become a scientist or engineer, but almost all of them
           | will become taxpayers and voters.
        
           | 0_____0 wrote:
           | Bill Nye was an aerospace mechanical engineer before he got
           | into SciComm.
           | 
           | I think it's important that there be a path from tinkering
           | into engineering, if the individual desires it, perhaps in
           | addition to "just go to college."
        
             | drewbeck wrote:
             | Nye also was a comedian right out of college [0], and was
             | interested in doing a science television show ("content"
             | lol) from pretty early on.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye#Comedy
        
           | citizenpaul wrote:
           | >escapism
           | 
           | A couple of years ago I relized that games have become a
           | religion for many young people. I have made legitimate
           | critical comments about gaming that are resposponded to witb
           | a viritol I only see matched by political flame wars. Its
           | nearly a "taboo" subject for them to be critical of the game
           | or industry.
        
         | huem0n wrote:
         | > it doesn't translate to engineering careers
         | 
         | From one teacher to another, I'm sorry what?
         | 
         | If teaching kids how build things doesn't encourage them to
         | become engineers, what does?
         | 
         | If you're taking about attention grabbing Youtuber-engineers, I
         | think that is very different than the makerspace movement that
         | gives people access to CNC machines/3D printers/welders without
         | a person needing to personally own a CNC machine/3D
         | printer/welder.
         | 
         | All of the greatest engineers I know spent their childhood
         | playing with legos, hot glue, solding irons, and hobby rocket
         | kits.
        
         | ori_b wrote:
         | > _But the problem is that while kids like it a lot, it doesn
         | 't translate to engineering careers._
         | 
         | Gross.
         | 
         | Maybe people should be able to enjoy doing things. Not every
         | moment of child rearing needs to be dedicated to maximizing
         | shareholder value.
         | 
         | And maybe it would be good to extend that attitude into
         | adulthood.
        
           | Isamu wrote:
           | Engineering is gross? Or the idea of promoting engineering is
           | gross? Please explain.
           | 
           | Engineering was my ticket for my transition from farm boy to
           | lifelong steady employment with good pay and benefits.
           | 
           | I chose the engineering path because I like to build things,
           | and I've been fortunate enough to be able to do that as a
           | career.
        
             | nilamo wrote:
             | The idea that a kid can't play without some tangible end
             | goal of employment is what's gross. Not the activity, or
             | the underlying discipline (engineering, in this case).
        
               | dare944 wrote:
               | Since such a sentiment was never expressed here, your
               | comment is a non-sequitur.
        
               | SR2Z wrote:
               | A kid will eventually need a job and it's the opposite of
               | gross for them to turn a childhood hobby into a career.
               | 
               | Much more gross to end up doing something they don't like
               | because they never got to try it out...
        
               | ori_b wrote:
               | And after being exposed, deciding they enjoy it, but
               | would rather make a living elsewhere -- does that mean
               | the hobby was a failure?
               | 
               | There's nothing wrong with turning something into a
               | career, but turning every action into career chasing is
               | saddening. It's pretty gross to leave kids thinking they
               | can't just enjoy something without juicing it for cash.
        
               | pests wrote:
               | Yes, and us adults also struggle with this. Look at
               | hustle culture where every hobby is turned into some
               | money making side gig. You like painting? Why isn't your
               | art on Etsy? Like working out? Become a personal trainer.
               | Make an app for yourself / friends? How you going to
               | monetize or add ads? It's okay to enjoy hobbies without a
               | profit seeking motive.
        
               | SR2Z wrote:
               | > And after being exposed, deciding they enjoy it, but
               | would rather make a living elsewhere -- does that mean
               | the hobby was a failure?
               | 
               | If they try a hobby for a while and give up on it because
               | they don't enjoy it enough, then yes. That seems like a
               | reasonable definition for "failure."
               | 
               | Nothing wrong with failing - in your career, hobbies,
               | relationships, or whatever else. Sometimes EQ means
               | recognizing that you should stop beating a dead horse.
        
               | ori_b wrote:
               | You don't enjoy anything that isn't a part of your career
               | path? You can't imagine enjoying something without
               | turning it into a revenue source?
        
             | scienceed22 wrote:
             | > Engineering is gross? Or the idea of promoting
             | engineering is gross? Please explain.
             | 
             | Huh? I can't think of a more disingenuous interpretation of
             | GP's comment.
        
             | ori_b wrote:
             | I suppose you're right. And in a similar vein, the problem
             | with toasting s'mores around a campfire is that while kids
             | like it a lot, it doesn't necessarily translate to park
             | ranger careers.
             | 
             | We should really reform camping to optimize the career
             | funnel.
        
             | gosub100 wrote:
             | they are saying the idea that any get-together should be a
             | working formula mostly for preparing kids for work instead
             | of being who they want to be, is gross. I mostly agree.
        
             | jahsome wrote:
             | Not op but I interpreted the gross part to be the idea
             | engineering is the end all be all of careers and more
             | importantly can't simply just be a creative outlet for some
             | folks.
        
         | neatze wrote:
         | Or may be education should be more dynamic, engaging, and
         | interactive, instead of having lowest paid teacher jobs, with
         | overcrowded classes, heavenly focused on boring memorization
         | (without clear purpose), and boring tests.
        
         | fidotron wrote:
         | Yeah, another side effect is management types are now allergic
         | to things which look like maker projects, even if done with a
         | level of professional engineering seriousness - they are unable
         | to distinguish between the two, so now they dismiss both.
         | 
         | This has been a factor in the slowdown of commercial IoT, as it
         | is often dismissed as science fair stuff.
        
         | 05 wrote:
         | > it doesn't translate to engineering careers.
         | 
         | 'Shortage' of US engineers is same as 'shortage' of developers
         | - artificially engineered by off-shoring and importing foreign
         | labor via H1B etc.
         | 
         | There are jobs, there just aren't jobs that want to pay well..
        
           | msgodel wrote:
           | I don't think it's just pay. There are so many clueless
           | administrators involved no one can actually communicate and
           | collaborate with eachother.
           | 
           | The independent maker thing is probably the solution to this.
        
             | thenthenthen wrote:
             | 'Independent maker' seems problematic. I assume you mean
             | the collective maker movement?
        
               | msgodel wrote:
               | Independent as opposed to having a corporate or
               | institutional job.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | The maker world I'm familiar with is basically split into two
         | divisions:
         | 
         | There are the people who like building things, and the people
         | who like making content.
         | 
         | Some people check both boxes, but in practice the people who
         | like building things the most aren't spending time grinding the
         | YouTube game with clickbait thumbnails and constant self
         | promotion.
         | 
         | So like many domains, the part you see on YouTube isn't
         | representative of the movement as a whole. It captures the
         | people who like entertaining and making videos the most.
        
         | lrvick wrote:
         | I never payed attention to maker youtubers as a young adult.
         | 
         | What changed everything for me was visiting a hackerspace and
         | getting my own hands dirty making things. I got so distracted
         | making things in the 15 years since that I have never have time
         | to make content to share what I learned. Always more things to
         | build or fix.
         | 
         | Totally the opposite problem to what you describe!
         | 
         | Maybe we should focus more on exposing people to making things
         | in workshops, and communities, rather than content.
        
         | skeaker wrote:
         | Asinine complaint.
         | 
         | 1. Not true in the slightest; you even contradict yourself.
         | Engineering interests absolutely do grow from it like you said,
         | and you will never get someone doing good work in an
         | engineering career without a prior interest.
         | 
         | 2. Life is not a career. Even just fostering an interest in
         | something creative is invaluable on its own. Perceiving
         | something as harmful because it isn't corporate enough for your
         | tastes makes me extremely sad for you.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | I don't think getting more kids to want an engineering career
         | is going to improve civil engineering. Lots of people joined
         | the software workforce and the result wasn't better software.
        
         | clayhacks wrote:
         | Is there stats to back this up? I imagine not every kid who
         | watches these creators becomes an engineer, but do more become
         | engineers than non watchers? Or less? I'd be willing to bet
         | more do, even if it's still not a huge majority. I mean
         | anecdotally I know a lot of engineer friends of mine who like
         | these creators too. I'm a professional software engineer now
         | after watching some of these people when I was younger and
         | being involved in my high schools robotics team. I went to open
         | sauce and saw a bunch of local robotics teams there too. Again
         | maybe they won't all be engineers but I'm sure more will than
         | the average
        
       | consumer451 wrote:
       | > NASA features many of Matthew's photos, but he told me he's
       | also pushing for more sharing of the RAW image files
       | 
       | These two shots of the moon and earth are so cool. This is such
       | an interesting view of something that we are all familiar with,
       | but will likely never see from this vantage point. I would love
       | to be able to play with the RAW files, as some kind of deeper
       | experience with the images.
       | 
       | https://www.nasa.gov/image-detail/amf-iss071e609065/
       | 
       | https://www.nasa.gov/image-detail/gvynuzswiaatoq/
        
       | brcmthrowaway wrote:
       | Isn't maker movement secretely funded by Private equity?
        
         | NoahZuniga wrote:
         | Well, at least open sauce isn't
        
         | consumer451 wrote:
         | I'm bored, so I'll bite, why would it be? Can you share
         | anything supporting this?
        
           | pests wrote:
           | A recent YT video talking about it.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/hJ-rRXWhElI?si=8h4h6lnbUpBDLiQp
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | Aren't all birds actually government surveillance drones?
        
           | nixgeek wrote:
           | Using the new U.S.-located 14A fabs coming online soon, all
           | bumblebees will soon be government surveillance drones.
        
         | jon-wood wrote:
         | Only in the sense that a lot of YouTube channels are taking
         | sponsorship from PE funded startups, and to be honest I just
         | see that a slightly odd form of wealth redistribution.
        
         | shlubbert wrote:
         | Someone tell me where to sign up because I'd love to get some
         | funding for a new 3D printer.
        
         | mathiaspoint wrote:
         | Technically everything that isn't a public company (ie tradable
         | on the stock market) is private equity although I think you're
         | complaint is about private equity _rollups._
        
         | pests wrote:
         | I'm guessing this is in reference to a recent YT video about
         | private equity buying up YouTube channels in recent years,
         | mostly in the science and engineering spaces.
         | 
         | Channels publicly acquired by PE:
         | 
         | Task & Purpose, Donut Media, Veritasium, Simple History, Fern,
         | Fireship, Economics Explained, Futurism, Astrum
         | 
         | "Your favorite YouTube channel is (probably) owned by private
         | equity."
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/hJ-rRXWhElI?si=8h4h6lnbUpBDLiQp
        
       | yonatan8070 wrote:
       | Open Sauce sounds like such a cool event, I would totally go next
       | year if it wasn't 12,000km away...
        
         | Kudos wrote:
         | Same, except it's the fear of being randomly detained for a
         | month before being deported.
        
           | VoidWhisperer wrote:
           | Deported to the correct country, or a different one entirely?
           | Sounds like playing a lottery from hell...
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | It's a new game show called "Let's Make a Martyr".
        
           | msgodel wrote:
           | That's ok. You should start something in your country.
        
           | avree wrote:
           | Amazing how almost anything can be turned into U.S. politics.
        
       | quailfarmer wrote:
       | But how will they avoid the unfortunate end that Maker Faires
       | faced last time around?
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | What was it?
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | Maker Faire went bankrupt in 2019:
           | https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/10/maker-faire-now-make-
           | commu...
           | 
           | More on Wikipedia:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker_Faire
           | 
           | They're actually back now, but in a less expensive venue in
           | Vallejo: https://bayarea.makerfaire.com/
           | 
           | Next Vallejo event is 26-28 September 2025.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | Ah, that's too bad. Thanks, I hadn't heard.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | TBH William Osman's been pretty open about this event not
             | being profitable yet, though having the support on the
             | YouTube/Sauceplus side, he hopes that will fill in the
             | funding gap.
             | 
             | Trade shows/conferences without a massive corporate
             | sponsorship backing (e.g. like many trade shows today) are
             | definitely risky, financially.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | They're working on it - you can get some backstory by watching
         | William Osman 2 channel. They published a show this year
         | https://www.sauceplus.com/channel/ScareTheCoyote/home then
         | funded the rest mostly with tickets. I'm sure there will be a
         | few side-projects helping here.
        
       | bwb wrote:
       | Huge thank you for making this post, I watched a few of your
       | videos of the event and super super interesting. Great post :)
        
       | Hikikomori wrote:
       | William and a few other youtubers are behind open sauce
       | https://youtube.com/@williamosman2
        
         | ayewo wrote:
         | Seems like the main channel is
         | https://www.youtube.com/@williamosman
        
           | Hikikomori wrote:
           | He mostly posts on the second channel these days
        
       | viknesh wrote:
       | I went and enjoyed it a lot. The variety of the exhibitions was
       | great (personally I loved the watercolor pen plotter) and the age
       | of the exhibitors - both very young and old, was delightful.
        
       | imbusy111 wrote:
       | Just for balance, I went there, and it was pretty disappointing.
       | I do love math and engineering, but it was very gimmicky,
       | especially the panels. I tried striking up a few conversations,
       | but people were really awkward and ran away. Also, generally as
       | an event it was frustrating in many ways (for example, mobile
       | internet is mostly down, and the agenda is not printed anywhere).
       | But who wants to hear me complain.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | The panels were IMO the least interesting part (unless you
         | really like one of the people on a particular panel I guess). I
         | spent almost the entire time walking around to booths asking
         | the people who made things about their creations. That was
         | gold.
        
       | unwind wrote:
       | Meta: typo, it's Ken Shirriff not Sheriff. Although in my mind
       | Ken is certainly the sheriff of IC exploration. :)
        
       | olgs wrote:
       | I was also there and especially enjoyed seeing the number of
       | parents with kids. The badge making area is always full of kids,
       | and adult parents or staff/volunteers guiding them in completing
       | the Open Sauce badge.
       | 
       | Getting to see and hold a 3D printed regenerative cooled liquid
       | rocket engine was my personal highlight.
       | 
       | BPS.space (Joe Barnard) released a nice YouTube Short that also
       | highlighted some favorites.
        
       | lucideer wrote:
       | For anyone interested in a little context behind the
       | organisational effort that goes into this event, William Osman
       | (the genius brain behind Open Sauce) has put up 12 short videos
       | documenting his attempts to promote the event in the week leading
       | up to it. This is the first of those videos:
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qbjES787ZI
        
         | imbusy111 wrote:
         | Sending out a simple reminder email would have made more
         | impact. I did not realize the event was happening until I
         | looked at my personal calendar.
        
           | huem0n wrote:
           | Yeah something tells me scheduling coordination and planning
           | aren't William Osman's strongest skills.
           | 
           | The group really needs to hire a long term secretary that
           | understands engineers and content creation.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | The target audience is people who watch a lot of YouTube
           | maker content.
           | 
           | He's been advertising the conference constantly for months,
           | not just a couple days before.
        
       | toisanji wrote:
       | is this makers faire 2.0? I didn't know about this, sad to have
       | missed it.
        
       | hamandcheese wrote:
       | I was there, and unlike many of the other commenters, I feel like
       | it was just _ok_. Imagine maker faire but there happens to be a
       | stage next door with YouTubers.
       | 
       | The panels I did see, the moderator (William Osman) didn't do a
       | very good job moving through questions, so very few people got to
       | actually ask anything.
       | 
       | I also felt very strange that the only place I saw kids was
       | lining up to ask YouTubers questions during the panels. I
       | couldn't help but think about how many kids want to be YouTubers
       | when they grow up - it seems like YouTuber idolism was the main
       | event and not any of the awesome booths by non-famous people.
        
         | lightedman wrote:
         | The real draw of OpenSauce is that it is really mostly a con
         | for the creators, and that the public is invited to some
         | capacity is just a side thing.
         | 
         | The after party is where the real fun begins. Playing with
         | dangerous high-energy devices? Hell yes.
        
         | mft_ wrote:
         | Having a science/tech/maker YouTuber as a role model is
         | arguably better than, say, a fashion model, an actor, a
         | populist podcaster, or a footballer, no?
        
           | throwawayohio wrote:
           | I do find it tiring that tech oriented people _still_ feel
           | the need to denigrate people who are in the arts or athletes
           | (tbh lumping them in with podcast grifters may be the
           | greatest insult). Children can and should have a variety of
           | role models.
           | 
           | Especially when we have seen over and over again that some
           | youtubers (not pointing at any at this even specifically)
           | have shown themselves to be of quite low character.
        
             | leptons wrote:
             | There are plenty of pro sports icons that have low
             | character. Good character is not a qualification to put a
             | ball through a goal, hole, hoop or elsewhere, in pro sports
             | or on youtube.
             | 
             | I don't know any "tech oriented" people that put down
             | anyone "in the arts", but most of them have no interest in
             | sports. That doesn't mean they denigrate anyone in sports,
             | but as for myself I do find humanity's fascination with
             | putting balls into goals, holes, hoops and elsewhere a bit
             | tiring, and I think it's a bit of a waste of humanity to
             | put so much importance on putting balls into goals, holes,
             | hoops or elsewhere, but we are all free to have our own
             | opinions.
        
           | herval wrote:
           | You have YouTubers versions of all these, plus more (YouTube
           | body builder, YouTube gamer, etc). The difference is people
           | want to be _famous on YouTube_ , instead.
           | 
           | Most YouTubers that kids use as role models are simply
           | questionable entertainers and pranksters, so I'd say on
           | average, it is much worse than having a footballer as a role
           | model...
        
           | bugsMarathon88 wrote:
           | No, in fact it is arguably much worse.
        
             | simonw wrote:
             | Why?
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | Because it means we no longer have a service based
               | economy, but that we now live in a jester-based economy.
               | Science isn't necessarily flashy and loud, it's a lot of
               | hard, often thankless work. Long hours in a lab away from
               | friends and family and even people.
               | 
               | We can't all be the center of attention. society has a
               | lot of other roles that need to be filled, but if
               | everyone only wants to be the star, a lot of roles just
               | won't happen. This is why UBI won't work. We should
               | absolutely help poor people survive and live dignified
               | lives, but UBI is a cop-out.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | In what way are models/actors/podcasters/footballers
               | service but youtubers are not service?
        
               | Ray20 wrote:
               | >we no longer have a service based economy, but that we
               | now live in a jester-based economy.
               | 
               | In which way jester-services is worse than any other
               | types of services?
               | 
               | >Science isn't necessarily flashy and loud, it's a lot of
               | hard, often thankless work.
               | 
               | And in most cases it is more useless than the work of
               | jesters
               | 
               | >society has a lot of other roles that need to be filled,
               | but if everyone only wants to be the star, a lot of roles
               | just won't happen
               | 
               | We do not live under communism, so "everyone only wants
               | to be the star" does not imply that society is obliged to
               | fulfill this desires. The market will fill these roles
               | even if everyone wants to be the star.
        
           | LMYahooTFY wrote:
           | I would say no. I don't think one can adopt this stance
           | without thinking less of people who pursue those activities.
           | And I'd rather show kids humility, as opposed to superiority.
        
         | msgodel wrote:
         | There isn't a whole lot left in the US economy to aspire to. Do
         | you think wanting to be a day trader is better? Should they try
         | to get a professional engineering job and join the 50% of
         | graduates who are unemployed a year after graduating?
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > Should they try to get a professional engineering job and
           | join the 50% of graduates who are unemployed a year after
           | graduating?
           | 
           | The graduate unemployment rate is not that high. Did you
           | perhaps see the viral Tweets TikToks or Reddit posts going
           | around recently based on the article that got the decimal
           | point wrong and overestimated it by an order of magnitude?
        
         | penneyd wrote:
         | I agree that it was a bit meh, maker faire with a small side of
         | youtubers is an accurate description but overall I enjoyed it
         | and there were definitely some cool booths. Saturday was also
         | ridiculously busy making it hard to navigate and interact with
         | folks, Sunday was much better in that regard.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >The panels I did see, the moderator (William Osman) didn't do
         | a very good job moving through questions, so very few people
         | got to actually ask anything.
         | 
         | Panels are a pretty mixed bag at conferences in general. So
         | many panelists are reiterating talking points, they're
         | repetitious a lot of the time, they're _too_ polite and in
         | agreement, and audience questions are often in the vein of not
         | so much a question but a comment. I _have_ seen good panels but
         | I often avoid them as a rule.
        
         | jahsome wrote:
         | I love the concept of expecting Big Willy to be an effective
         | panel moderator. At times the guy can barely moderate his own
         | mind (which is why I adore him).
         | 
         | This wasn't billed as a career fair. Why are so many comments
         | criticizing as if it were?
         | 
         | And on the subject of careers. What's inherently negative about
         | kids wanting to be a YouTuber? For every kid chasing fame,
         | there is probably an equal who just wants to share their
         | passion with an audience.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > I love the concept of expecting Big Willy to be an
           | effective panel moderator. At times the guy can barely
           | moderate his own mind (which is why I adore him).
           | 
           | This encapsulates the disconnect with Open Sauce: It's
           | pitched as a big Maker Fair crossed with VidCon, but in
           | practice a lot of it revolves around William Osman and his
           | entertainment style.
           | 
           | If someone who adores William Osman and his content went to a
           | panel like this they'd be entertained.
           | 
           | If someone who went there expecting to hear from the makers
           | and have questions answered, they'd be frustrated by the way
           | the moderator became the centerpiece and the questions felt
           | like fodder for the moderator to riff on.
           | 
           | This is the disconnect that has turned off a lot of my maker
           | friends from Open Sauce: It's a fun idea, but the actual
           | conference leans toward being a William Osman centered show
           | with YouTuber friends doing guest appearances. That's great
           | for people who are into that and obviously a lot of people
           | enjoy it, but the maker side of the conference feels like
           | something of a sideshow at times
        
             | jahsome wrote:
             | I disagree. As I see it, it's pitched as a William Osman-
             | inspired event. I wouldn't expect it to be a well oiled
             | machine. In fact I'd expect it to be exactly how you framed
             | it in the last paragraph.
             | 
             | Personally, I can't help but feel like those wanting it to
             | be something else are responsible for projecting those
             | desires on to the event, and not the other way around.
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | > As I see it, it's pitched as a William Osman-inspired
               | event. I wouldn't expect it to be a well oiled machine.
               | In fact I'd expect it to be exactly how you framed it in
               | the last paragraph.
               | 
               | This all makes sense for people who discovered it and
               | hear about it through William Osman.
               | 
               | More broadly, it's not marketed as a William Osman
               | centered event. Spend some time on their website and
               | there's barely any mention of William Osman. Instead it's
               | about education, growing communities, and building
               | careers: https://opensauce.com/about/
               | 
               | So for people in the in-group who rally around William
               | Osman, the chaos all makes sense.
               | 
               | For people who stumbled upon the conference as a new
               | maker fare with cool exhibits, it's weird to show up and
               | experience the vibe that orbits around William Osman and
               | his friends.
               | 
               | Not suggesting it's good or bad, but the disconnect is
               | obvious throughout this thread. Even the Open Sauce
               | website focuses on things like career building, but then
               | people in this thread are being criticized for thinking
               | the conference has anything to do with career building.
        
               | andrewflnr wrote:
               | Can confirm, I've heard of OpenSauce a good few times and
               | had no idea it was so Osman-centric. :D
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | To be fair, I don't think that was the original intent
               | 
               | But when the creator of a conference has such a large
               | following and primarily promotes through their YouTube
               | channel, a lot of attendees will come to expect that
               | person to play a large role in their experience.
               | 
               | It's hard to break free of that.
        
           | hamandcheese wrote:
           | I'm making observations, not suggestions.
           | 
           | And one of those observations is that it was a very weird
           | vibe to see dozens of 6 year olds line up excited to ask a
           | question, and only 3 or 4 getting the opportunity.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > The panels I did see, the moderator (William Osman) didn't do
         | a very good job moving through questions, so very few people
         | got to actually ask anything.
         | 
         | William Osman's style is the anti Mark Rober: His channel is
         | about winging it with projects that halfway work if they're
         | lucky, while being kind of awkward and mocking everyone and
         | himself. Moderating the panel and getting questions answered
         | probably wasn't their goal. The goal was to be kind of
         | entertaining in the style that their viewers are familiar with.
         | 
         | Would be frustrating for someone to go into one of those panels
         | expecting a traditional efficiently moderated panel.
         | 
         | > I also felt very strange that the only place I saw kids was
         | lining up to ask YouTubers questions during the panels. I
         | couldn't help but think about how many kids want to be
         | YouTubers when they grow up - it seems like YouTuber idolism
         | was the main event and not any of the awesome booths by non-
         | famous people.
         | 
         | Open Sauce was supposed to be inspired by two other
         | conferences: Maker Faire and Vidcon. Vidcon was primarily a
         | YouTube and later TikTok conference. Open Sauce is basically
         | VidCon's successor in California with some maker booths added
         | in and an emphasis on maker channels. It's still heavily a
         | YouTube conference though and the primary focus is YouTuber
         | audiences, which is where they do much of their marketing.
         | 
         | Meeting your favorite YouTubers is one of the main selling
         | points of the conference. I wouldn't read too much into the
         | fact that you saw kids excited about their favorite YouTubers
         | at a conference literally pitched on YouTube as a way for them
         | to meet their favorite YouTubers.
        
           | hamandcheese wrote:
           | > Moderating the panel and getting questions answered
           | probably wasn't their goal.
           | 
           | > Meeting your favorite YouTubers is one of the main selling
           | points of the conference.
           | 
           | These statements seem at odds with each other. If meeting
           | your favorite YouTubers is the main selling point, then IMO
           | they did a pretty bad job with the fan service.
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | Let me put it this way: They put on a show that matches
             | their style on YouTube and podcasts.
             | 
             | The few fans who get to ask questions aren't the ones being
             | served. They're entertaining the mass of people who came to
             | see more of the same content on their YouTube channels,
             | which is disordered chaos where they joke with each other,
             | make fun of things, and joke around.
             | 
             | It's a continuation of their style everywhere else, and
             | it's what many of their fans came to see.
             | 
             | If you were expecting a traditional panel style where each
             | question-asker got to be the focus and drive the show for a
             | minute, that's not their style.
             | 
             | I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just different from
             | what you might expect from a more formal conference.
        
               | hamandcheese wrote:
               | Can't it be disordered, _interactive_ chaos? What 's the
               | point of even showing up in person just to be in view-
               | only mode?
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | Like I said, I'm saying it's good or bad or right or
               | wrong.
               | 
               | I do think you're not the target audience, though. A lot
               | of my maker friends also skip Open Sauce because it's
               | more about the YouTube personalities than about science
               | and makers
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | I don't think they're at odds. You can do lots of meeting
             | but that happens outside the panels.
        
         | milofeynman wrote:
         | Is it a kid friendly event for a 8 year old who doesn't know
         | any YouTubers? Like we he have fun seeing all the maker stuff?
        
           | kieranl wrote:
           | I took my 7 and 6 year old and they loved it! We spent all
           | our time looking at projects and booths. They have no
           | interest in the talks. With that said, there are not that
           | many kids below highschool age that were in attendance. It is
           | more geared to older kids/adults. But I do think there are
           | lots of things to see there for kids. Probably the higher
           | entrance fee reduces this a bit as well.
           | 
           | With that said, you want to pay close attention to your small
           | children, as some of the exhibits are not super kid safe. But
           | that is part of the fun!
           | 
           | There is a lot of variability in what you see as well. Some
           | tables have incredible cutting edge projects, and other are
           | exciting for a highschooler. Some are amazing
           | highschool/middle school projects that the builders are
           | really passionate about, but might not wow you technically.
           | 
           | Every year I find an amazing creator there, where I bring in
           | their work to our house for the family to build/play with.
           | Last year we found https://www.trackstacker.net/ which has
           | provided hours of fun over the last 12 months. And this year
           | we found https://professorboots.com 3d printed construction
           | equipment.
        
         | bl_valance wrote:
         | I've noticed this as well, past couple of years it has turned
         | into more panel/ytuber focused, less about the actual projects
         | showcased on the ground floor. Not to mention, it is pricing
         | out many from attending.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | Looks like the OG Maker Faire from 15-20 years ago.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | Back in the day I use to like watching people creating things in
       | YouTube. After a while I notice a trend of people building stuff
       | just for the views. I think that's one of the reasons Ben left
       | Element 14, they did not care about inventions, they just wanted
       | content.
       | 
       | I feel like open sauce, as mentioned by others here, is just a
       | place for YouTubers to gather an audience. With some exceptions,
       | of course (I'm looking at you technology connections).
        
       | lrvick wrote:
       | I really wish Open Sauce made more effort to showcase Open Source
       | solutions as the name clearly implies. So many things presented
       | are proprietary, which makes them useless for significant
       | community improvement and collaboration.
       | 
       | Those pushing corpotech in an event meant to have a community
       | vibe feels gross.
       | 
       | Granted MakerFaire is the same these days.
       | 
       | Are there any actual events showcasing exclusively open tech in
       | the US?
        
       | j-bos wrote:
       | I attended for the first time this year after wanting to go since
       | the first year. As someone who watches science techy engineering
       | YouTubers, but hardly does anything with hardware, I had a great
       | time. Even though I'm a fan of some of William Osman's work, I
       | didn't really enjoy the panels. Relative to effort of attendance,
       | they were kind of boring, something you could probably just watch
       | as a YouTube recording.
       | 
       | What I did enjoy alot were the exhibits. There's the spectacle of
       | seeing all kinds of weird and interesting builds in person. But
       | what's really, really enjoyable is that because the exhibits are
       | done by average people who generally don't have a big public
       | following; you can just ask them endless questions and they're
       | more than happy to answer and give such a great insight into the
       | build process, the work that is involved, the inspiration and the
       | little details of all the things that they made. Granted, I will
       | agree, many of the exhibitors are not socially dexterous, but
       | because they're there, they're very willing to talk and explain
       | things. Definitely worthwhile. I even got to use a soldering iron
       | for the first time in a decade years.
        
       | sedatk wrote:
       | Despite having been organized on the former grounds of Maker
       | Faire, the whole thing felt smaller. Exhibit halls were very
       | poorly ventilated, and doors left open didn't help. Only the main
       | conference hall was breezy enough. Panels were hard to follow due
       | to bad acoustics of smaller halls.
       | 
       | Retro related halls were mostly about NES/console Retro, not
       | 8-bit in general.
       | 
       | People were fantastic though. I liked seeing many different
       | robots and cosplayers. I got to play many great games, looking
       | forward to their release. Not many mindblowing stuff but, were I
       | a kid, I would be blown away for sure. Robot fights were also
       | exciting (maybe outdoors would be better for it though).
       | 
       | I saw Ken Shirriff, and thought to myself "oh he must have left
       | his assistant in his place". I'd never guess he'd be that young
       | which impressed me even more given his phenomenal work. So, I
       | missed my chance to thank him in person. Next time!
       | 
       | Had good time in general. I hope to see it get better in upcoming
       | years.
        
         | kens wrote:
         | > I saw Ken Shirriff... I'd never guess he'd be that young
         | 
         | Thanks! But are you sure that was me? I haven't been young for
         | a long while now :-) If the person you saw wasn't wearing a lab
         | coat, then it was probably Mike Stewart or TubeTimeUS.
        
           | sedatk wrote:
           | It was you if your profile pic on Bluesky is current. I just
           | hadn't zoomed to it before :)
        
       | gooseus wrote:
       | Seems cool but disappointingly has nothing to do with sauce, hot
       | or otherwise.
        
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