[HN Gopher] UK: Phone networks down: EE, BT, Three, Vodafone, O2...
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       UK: Phone networks down: EE, BT, Three, Vodafone, O2 not working in
       mass outage
        
       Author : oger
       Score  : 172 points
       Date   : 2025-07-24 13:17 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.the-independent.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.the-independent.com)
        
       | jon-wood wrote:
       | I see we're still using Down Detector as a source for stories,
       | which may as well be called People Are Talking on Twitter
       | Detector. It doesn't do anything smart, it's just looking for
       | keywords on social media, sometimes by coincidence this indicates
       | an actual outage.
        
         | dave78 wrote:
         | Yeah, it's far from ideal, but in my experience its accuracy is
         | better than most anything else readily available, including the
         | official status pages maintained by most tech companies.
        
           | user_7832 wrote:
           | Yeah, and not only do you get to see if it's down or not
           | (reddit infamously always says it's up even when there are
           | issues), but you also get to see the raw data of reports.
           | Ofttimes I've seen the trend go up and realized it's a very
           | recent issue - even _before_ downdetector itself recognizes
           | it as such.
           | 
           | Human reading > DD reading >> "All our services are
           | operational" when they're absolutely f--ing not.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | Do you have a better suggestion? This is the best we can get,
         | without having a public protocol for asking any service, "are
         | you alive?"
        
         | avalys wrote:
         | Actually it's quite smart! Probably the smartest possible
         | solution to the problem they tried to solve.
         | 
         | "Smart" doesn't have to mean complex and technically
         | sophisticated.
        
         | teeray wrote:
         | Down Detector will be useful as long as marketing departments
         | control official status pages.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | If it's stupid but it works it isn't stupid. Many S3 outages
         | are on Down Detector minutes before the AWS status page reacts:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41770111
        
           | nailer wrote:
           | Was about to say the same. So many of my colleagues looki]
           | for officially confirmed statuses if a cloud provider, AI,
           | blockchain or github starts acting funny and troubleshooting
           | problems thinking it's their own systems. My response is: did
           | you check for people talking on X? About half an hour later
           | there's an official incident.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | Or are there at all. AWS status page likes to be fully green,
           | even during issues...
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | People submit reports through down detector.
        
         | NitpickLawyer wrote:
         | Google can detect flu break-outs much faster than the CDC for
         | example, because people tend to search for symptoms before they
         | let anyone know officially, visit a doctor, etc.
        
       | wut42 wrote:
       | Another Down Detector bullshit article.... it's getting
       | incredibly tiring. Every time a provider (Phone, Internet or even
       | cloud services) suffer issues ALL of them are reported as down.
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | Who downs detector the down detector? Or even better who is the
         | redundancy for dd if the site is actually up?
        
           | racedude wrote:
           | Uh oh big broken now
        
       | yabones wrote:
       | I wonder if it will be the same cause as the big Rogers outage in
       | '22, a good old fashioned BGP botch.
       | 
       | https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/rogers-commun...
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Rogers_Communications_out...
        
         | wut42 wrote:
         | And Australia 2023 outage of Optus, also BGP related:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Optus_outage
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Diff with Rogers is that they took out their entire network:
         | cellular, home/biz internet, home phone, corporate circuits
         | (including MPLS links), most cable TV, a bunch of their
         | broadcast radio (AM/FM) network just dead dead dead.
         | 
         | Well, their towers were sorta up (as they couldn't remotely
         | turn them off since the network was down), so if you had a
         | Rogers SIM, a call to 9-1-1 wouldn't failover to other networks
         | because the device made just enough of a handshake to try and
         | fail on the Rogers network. A flaw in GSM I reckon.
         | 
         | Apparently the workaround was to remove/disable your SIM and
         | hope another network has a stronger signal.
         | 
         | Oh, and the CTO was on holiday and had no idea for a while
         | because... their phone was on roaming with Rogers and therefore
         | dead.
         | 
         | I wonder if Rogers still does planned-in-advance multi-stage
         | potentially-enterprise-breaking updates on Fridays
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | In a financial company I worked at we would do some of the
           | biggest, riskiest changes at 5pm on a Friday (or Saturday
           | evening if we were worried about impacting international
           | trades). The logic being that we would have the most time to
           | fix things before markets open monday.
        
             | NikolaNovak wrote:
             | Our release window is Saturday morning. All the support
             | people are on, most users are not, gives us 36hrs. We
             | absolutely do not release during week if we can help it.
             | But we are traditional ERP application so pretty much
             | everything we do is contrary to the HN/modern zeitgeist :-)
        
               | signal11 wrote:
               | Being able to release safely during the week is super
               | important for eg financial services, for fairly obvious
               | reasons.
               | 
               | In trading and market making contexts for instance, we
               | release 100s of times a day -- including Fridays. This
               | includes bog-standard infra changes like roleswaps and
               | server rebuilds. The releases that happen on weekends
               | tend to be highly disruptive infra changes, eg unexpected
               | changes to some kind of physical connectivity where we're
               | not comfortable with carrying weekday risk.
               | 
               | We didn't explicitly set to to optimise QoL for engineers
               | (the real driver for safe intraday change was being
               | responsive as a business) but not usually being on call
               | on weekends was a big plus.
        
             | atemerev wrote:
             | Yes. It is either Friday evening or Sunday in finance.
        
           | whycome wrote:
           | I know one outcome of it was to ensure that they were
           | equipped with SIMs for Competitor networks just in case
        
             | dlenski wrote:
             | You're saying that Rogers _personnel_ now have non-Rogers
             | SIM cards?
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | I mean, incredibly critical personnel probably should be!
               | There may only be a few dozen such people, but I wouldn't
               | want the added chaos caused in the event of a Rogers
               | outage if I couldn't get in touch with the key decision
               | makers and most critical operations engineers because of
               | the very outage they're meant to fix. And in the e-sim
               | era that is hopefully very cheap and without any real
               | downsides.
        
           | dlenski wrote:
           | The '22 Rogers outage, hah. As I recall it didn't affect me
           | at all since I was at home and work in Vancouver all day...
           | but it was a great excuse for not responding to workplace on-
           | call messages which I got in the evening
           | 
           | > Well, their towers were sorta up (as they couldn't remotely
           | turn them off since the network was down), so if you had a
           | Rogers SIM, a call to 9-1-1 wouldn't failover to other
           | networks because the device made just enough of a handshake
           | to try and fail on the Rogers network. A flaw in GSM I
           | reckon.
           | 
           | Didn't know that part, amazing.
           | 
           | It sounds kind of like connecting to a WiFi access point
           | which has a broken/non-working uplink to the Internet. Modern
           | smartphones pretty much automatically detect and avoid such
           | APs, and indeed the whole SSID if they need to, but it sounds
           | like the stuck-in-1985 2G baseband layer has no equivalent
           | connectivity check.
        
           | addandsubtract wrote:
           | > their phone was on roaming with Rogers and therefore dead
           | 
           | I thought your phone uses all available networks (ie the
           | strongest one) while roaming. Is that not the case?
        
             | g_p wrote:
             | When roaming, your home network is needed for routing
             | incoming calls to you, and handling authenticating your
             | device to the visited network.
        
       | crinkly wrote:
       | Sitting at a table in a restaurant in London with some family and
       | O2, ER and Three are fine.
        
         | fecal_henge wrote:
         | Stop looking at your phone.
        
           | crinkly wrote:
           | Everyone went for a piss.
        
             | geocar wrote:
             | At the same time?
        
               | sitkack wrote:
               | They are talking about the OP while doing coke.
        
               | spauldo wrote:
               | Your family doesn't? That's weird.
        
               | crinkly wrote:
               | Yes they are all female and they appear to attend the
               | bathroom in large groups.
        
             | aftbit wrote:
             | Now we're all just taking the piss.
        
       | chmod775 wrote:
       | > A map showing reports of EE outage reports made to DownDetector
       | suggests that those in London, Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow
       | are the worst affected.
       | 
       | No. Those are the most densely populated areas of the UK -
       | _obviously_ they appear as bright red spots on the map.
       | 
       | What you have is essentially a population map:
       | https://xkcd.com/1138/
        
       | amiga386 wrote:
       | BT, EE: Yes. Three, Vodafone: No. O2: Unknown.
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvmvqrnq7go
       | 
       | > A spokesperson from BT, which owns EE, apologised and said the
       | firm was "currently addressing an issue impacting our services".
       | 
       | > Vodafone and Three have confirmed to the BBC they do not have
       | network issues.
        
         | dlenski wrote:
         | 45 minutes later, another reply here
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44674209) suggests that
         | Vodafone and O2 _are_ indeed experiencing issues.
        
         | goodcanadian wrote:
         | I _think_ O2 is OK. My phone company is not O2, but it uses
         | their network.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | I had an annoying O2 fail on me incident at about 6pm.
        
         | drrob wrote:
         | I'm on Vodafone, I can confirm they're okay.
        
       | jonathantf2 wrote:
       | It's just inbound calls to EE numbers (so if you've ported in
       | you're not affected)
        
         | mjpa86 wrote:
         | I'm on EE with a ported in number and didn't get a call I
         | should have earlier...
        
         | g_p wrote:
         | Even with a ported number, inbound call routing still heavily
         | relies on the "number range" owner to direct the incoming call
         | to the correct network.
         | 
         | If the original number range owner has their subscriber
         | database go down, they can't do the lookup for the network to
         | direct the incoming call towards, so it can cause disruption.
         | The same is true if the incoming signalling endpoints are
         | unavailable, as the incoming call requests won't be responded
         | to.
        
           | jonathantf2 wrote:
           | Tis what I meant - I have an EE MVNO SIM but originally an O2
           | number and I can recieve calls just fine.
        
       | mmsc wrote:
       | China watching with open eyes.
       | 
       | This will happen the day that they try to take Taiwan, worldwide,
       | in my opinion.
        
         | whycome wrote:
         | Gotta hold onto the 0day for that one.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | Only if they absolutely need it. Nobody would spoil an asset
         | like that. Maybe they would turn off mobile in Taiwan if they
         | control their network. I didn't check which technology provider
         | they use.
        
           | nailer wrote:
           | I don't think it would permanently spoil anything. China
           | would just stop the phone network from being used to
           | coordinate a response.
        
             | pmontra wrote:
             | No mobile network can be an inconvenience but who has to
             | respond will have the means to communicate no matter what.
             | Furthermore every single common person will feel a personal
             | level of danger and they won't simply shrug about the
             | destiny of a remote island somewhere on the map.
        
         | aftbit wrote:
         | I do think there's a better than average chance that WW3 starts
         | not with an open nuclear exchange as our parents imagined, but
         | instead with a substantial cyberattack which shuts down power,
         | water treatment, communications, hospitals, public
         | transportation, etc. This might even be deniable / grey zone
         | for a few hours or days while the belligerent parties use the
         | chaos to accomplish some Blitzkrieg style attacks.
        
           | hollerith wrote:
           | If that were possible, then why didn't Russia, which might
           | have the most experienced pool of cyber-attack skills in the
           | world, do it to Ukraine?
        
             | ifwinterco wrote:
             | They did try, but ukraine were suspicious something was
             | going to happen (massive army suddenly forming near their
             | border) and they had spent time securing stuff
        
               | cess11 wrote:
               | They'd also done it on and off for like a decade already
               | so everyone was used to it and had mitigations in place.
        
             | sim7c00 wrote:
             | it would get them nothing.
             | 
             | they did attack satcom systems to the point of bricking
             | them.
             | 
             | what do you think would happen if you turn off critical
             | infra for a country?
             | 
             | mass civilian death/suffering. military likely hardly
             | affected but extremely motivated...
             | 
             | its counter productive.
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | That's stage 2. Stage 1 is election fixing, subversion and
           | capture of foreign governments through bribery and kompromat.
        
             | messe wrote:
             | Yeah that's why we're expecting stage 2 next.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Why? They'll take down BT landlines in case I need to call my
         | auntie and tell her about the news?
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | tbh breaking public internet/phones will probably be done by
           | a local government trying to do something nasty. Stop people
           | coordinating and turning up places they might get in the way.
           | 
           | I think my tin foil hat was askew. There. All better.
        
       | 18172828286177 wrote:
       | It's weird to me that the providers aren't communicating to
       | customers about this. What if you were waiting for a call from a
       | doctor, or similar?
        
         | 369548684892826 wrote:
         | They've probably let everyone know by SMS, we'll get the
         | message when everything starts working again
        
         | a2128 wrote:
         | The on-call person couldn't get the call due to an outage :(
        
       | gandalfian wrote:
       | Data is working on Vodafone mvno. Can't call Out or text, Can't
       | make calls On o2 or EE either. Edit EE working. Edit all mobiles
       | now seem to be working OK.
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | My BT landline doesn't even have a dial tone at the moment, which
       | is a new one. Internet via Openreach (as the fibre provider) is
       | OK.
        
       | ivan_gammel wrote:
       | Reminds me of recent outages in Russia due to buggy rollouts of
       | Great Russian Firewall aka Sovereign Internet. Were there any
       | state-level infrastructure updates planned recently?
        
         | codedokode wrote:
         | We also have mobile internet disabled/throttled sometimes when
         | there are drone attacks or large international forums. Weak-
         | minded people with Internet dependency like to complain about
         | this online as if their online game is more important than an
         | international forum.
        
           | beagle3 wrote:
           | Serious question: who gets to decide that some international
           | forum is more important than residents' use? - be it games,
           | video calls, or whatever else.
        
             | codedokode wrote:
             | The government has an authority to decide, according to the
             | laws? By the way they also often block roads for security
             | of important foreign guests and cause lot of traffic jams.
        
         | jibbit wrote:
         | age verification starts tomorrow
        
       | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
       | I haven't noticed anything today and heard no news about it. Must
       | only affect some parts of the network.
       | 
       | Posting this from a phone on the Three network.
        
       | kerv wrote:
       | are they powered by starlink?
        
       | te_chris wrote:
       | EE ok in Ldn
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | Honestly I know this sound snarky but it's 100% true - Three has
       | become so unbelievably bad in East London lately I'd struggle to
       | know if it was affected by this outage or if it was business as
       | usual for them. I could go on about how broken their billing and
       | app and site were but meh... need to change provider.
        
       | situationista wrote:
       | Related to current Starlink outage? probably not, but interesting
       | coincidence
        
       | heraldgeezer wrote:
       | Is this voice only, data only, or voice and data?
       | 
       | 2G,3G,4G,5G?
       | 
       | For voice, is CS down, VoLTE down or both?
       | 
       | Article is not clear on this, but I mainly see voice call
       | complaints?
        
       | tahoeskibum wrote:
       | And now Starlink is down as well. I wonder if they are related.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-24 23:00 UTC)