[HN Gopher] What does connecting with someone mean?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       What does connecting with someone mean?
        
       Author : bradwoodsio
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2025-07-24 11:16 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (talk.bradwoods.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (talk.bradwoods.io)
        
       | codeful wrote:
       | Good article! Short and straigt to the point and it gave me an
       | insigt. Check out his other writings in his blog
        
       | inezk wrote:
       | Great insights. In US people do ask one another "how are you?",
       | perhaps in a shallow way - but I think it's still an opener that
       | can lead to more meaningful conversation. In Poland for instance,
       | where I'm from, people don't ask "how are you?" one another -
       | which slightly limits that opportunity. At the same time Europe
       | as a whole has so much better work life balance which allows for
       | many more outside work friends and family connections and
       | spending time together.
        
         | ishita159 wrote:
         | true, people are being polite mostly though.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I'm from the US. "How are you," is indeed a very shallow
         | question that expects a very shallow and prescriptive response.
         | I've seen where people answer it honestly, and when they walk
         | away the person asking says something to the effect of, "god, I
         | didn't need his whole life story." Experiences like this make
         | me more hesitant to answer honestly.
         | 
         | The better you know someone, the more this rule starts to bend,
         | but that doesn't help with establishing new connections.
         | 
         | Even with people who are close, there is some expectation to
         | keep things pleasant and not unload bad news on them, or seem
         | like you're bragging about good stuff, when asked how you are.
         | This is why you'll often see movies where someone asks, "how
         | are you," and then after the generic answer they follow it up
         | with, "how are you really?"
         | 
         | In other situations, especially with good stuff, people feel
         | like they need to be invited to talk about something exciting
         | in their life. If they have something fun planned for the
         | weekend or did something fun last weekend, they'll ask someone
         | else what they did, hoping to get that same question back, so
         | they can have an excuse to talk about what they did. No one
         | ever really told me this and it took me longer than I'd like to
         | admit to figure it out.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | When someone says "How are you", I sometimes say "Crummy, but
           | thanks for asking." I'm not oversharing, but I'm also not
           | giving them a shallow, dishonest reply. I'm leaving the door
           | open for a deeper conversation, but I'm not forcing it. Then
           | it's up to them whether we just move on, or whether a real
           | conversation happens.
        
             | le-mark wrote:
             | "I didn't die in my sleep last night so I've got that going
             | for me" dark dry and true.
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | I tend to use "how are you today on a scale of 10?" as an ice
           | breaker.
           | 
           | This then allows you to open the question, as well gives
           | choice to the person.
           | 
           | "Six is good, why a six?", "anything wrong, why a four? Et
           | cetera
        
           | arcbyte wrote:
           | > I've seen where people answer it honestly, and when they
           | walk away the person asking says something to the effect of,
           | "god, I didn't need his whole life story."
           | 
           | I've definitely experienced the same. However ive realized
           | that invariably, the person answering honestly is wayyy
           | happier in general than the person being critical. Learning
           | to have the freedom to express yourself, invite connection,
           | and let failed invitations go, is a superpower for a happy
           | life.
        
           | grep_name wrote:
           | I've lived my whole life in the southeastern US, and the
           | comments online about this always make me feel like an alien.
           | Everyone here always seems to imply that it's meaningless
           | because "You have to say 'good', and if you don't say that
           | people get upset," but I've just never once had that
           | experience.
           | 
           | I almost never say 'good' in response to that question, even
           | to a coworker I don't know well. In my friend groups, usually
           | people will be straightforward about how they're doing as
           | well. Maybe people don't know how to say 'bad' without
           | following up with a story? It's easy once you start doing it.
           | "Not great, but it's fine" or "I'm just keeping along /
           | taking it day by day" is a fairly common response to get from
           | me, especially lately, and it's always honest. Sometimes I
           | will just say "TBH this week completely sucks for me" before
           | continuing with what the conversation was about originally.
           | If things are going well I will be effusive in my (still
           | short) response ("I'm doing awesome actually"). And I do care
           | about how the other person is doing when they respond. I've
           | even gone so far as to ask, after finding out about bad news
           | later in the conversation, "Damn, why'd you say you were
           | doing well?".
           | 
           | I find it to be a deeply useful way to start a conversation.
           | If you ask how I'm doing and you don't know me well, and I
           | say something to imply I'm not having a good day, it
           | _completely changes_ the way the conversation should be
           | conducted. Same goes for the other person 's response. You
           | always start every conversation on the same page ('how
           | impatient / stressed is the other person right now?' is one
           | of the most important pieces of context you can have). Over
           | time, I've even found that it has the benefit of making me
           | reflect on a regular basis on how I feel in the moment vs how
           | I'm actually doing on a longer-term scale.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | I always thought there are better ways to open a conversation.
         | The first thing you have in common with the other person is
         | that you are at the same place during the same time as them.
         | Depending on the context this can already provide you with
         | much, _much_ better ways of starting a conversation than just
         | using a  "how are you?" to which nobody expects an honest
         | answer. But German is my first language and this culturual
         | circle isn't exactly known for valuing meaningless smalltalk so
         | take this with a grain of salt.
         | 
         | I have found that the key to successfully starting a
         | conversation is (1) to be emphatically observant and wonder
         | which questions are moving the other person in a given moment
         | and (2) be open to take it any direction including shutting up
         | without feeling any pressure.
        
           | 9rx wrote:
           | _> I always thought there are better ways to open a
           | conversation._
           | 
           | Just like everyone else. "How are you?" isn't a conversation
           | opener, it's an attention grabber; like "hey", "ahoy",
           | "excuse me", or "hello". A device used to give the other
           | party a moment to realize your presence and shift their focus
           | towards you. If you try to go straight into conversation when
           | the other person is off in their own world, nine times out of
           | ten you're going to simply get back _" Wait, what? Did you
           | say something?"_
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | I wouldn't attach grand meanings to that. Most cultures in
         | Europe do have a socially polite "how are you"/"ca va"/"tudo
         | bem"/whatever to which you're expected to reply some variation
         | of "I'm fine thank you" unless you are good friends and the
         | question is meant sincerely.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | That is honestly a shallow greeting that leads to a shallow
         | response. I hang out at the bar downstairs from where I live to
         | talk to the bartender who is a friend (we have hung out
         | before), and whoever else comes by - mostly tourists. My go to
         | question is "what keeps you busy"? It's open ended and I can
         | talk about almost anything enough to ask questions and keep
         | them talking.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | 'how are you' is not a genuine question, it's an opening salvo
         | in an interaction ritual. You aren't supposed to _actually_
         | answer it.
         | 
         | I hate it, it's absolutely useless and just occupies the first
         | few seconds of an interaction for no reason.
        
         | herval wrote:
         | I worked in Germany for a while, and it was always hilarious
         | when an American would ask a local "how are you?" then proceed
         | to be bombarded about how they're having a headache or how
         | their baby puked all over them yesterday. It's a question
         | that's used almost as a "hello" in the US.
        
         | balfirevic wrote:
         | > In US people do ask one another "how are you?", perhaps in a
         | shallow way
         | 
         | My understanding is that it is not even a question, the
         | question mark at the end is just decoration. Even the shallow
         | answer is not necessary, responding with something like, "Hi,
         | good to see you" would be perfectly valid.
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | I wonder where the line is between being willing to be vulnerable
       | and oversharing.
        
         | sctb wrote:
         | I would suggest that, like many things, that line is dependent
         | on all of the details of the situation. Because all of those
         | subtle details (e.g. the mood, receptiveness, familiarity,
         | interest, etc. of the other person and yourself) matter, you
         | need to be able to take those in and respond accordingly. So
         | you could say that a prerequisite for connection is something
         | like "presence", the ability to give your full attention to the
         | interaction itself. Or you could say that this is actually the
         | essence of connection, and the conversation is an expression of
         | that togetherness of presence.
        
         | xelxebar wrote:
         | I don't think you can avoid risks and be vulnerable at the same
         | time. It's a bit of a catch-22, I'll admit; oversharing can
         | push people away, but the only way I know to figure it out is
         | to fall, get back up, rinse, and repeat.
        
         | danparsonson wrote:
         | It moves over time as you get closer to someone, in concert
         | with your mutual trust.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | Just keep the conversation appropriate for time, place, and how
         | well you know the person. That avoids oversharing.
         | 
         | For example, I overheard a conversation between two coworkers.
         | One asked about a health issue and the other responded with
         | this long drawn out story about an extremely gruesome injury
         | with lots of details leaving everyone extremely uncomfortable.
         | The other coworker complained about to me afterwards, because I
         | overheard it.
         | 
         | He could have said "oh, I'm doing much better! Had a bad injury
         | about six months ago that set me back some, but I'm healed up
         | from that now, thankfully!"
         | 
         | Maybe there's a time and place to share the gruesome details,
         | depending on who your friends are, but it's certainly not with
         | a work acquaintance.
        
         | hshshshshsh wrote:
         | You cannot over share Most people don't give a shit about you.
         | And the ones who gives a shit does have their own ideas about
         | you anyway. So you would be surprised how much influence you
         | can do to change those ideas. Even if you change their ideas
         | it's still an idea in your head as far as your are concerned.
        
         | Torwald wrote:
         | Depends on context. Learn to read the other person or group,
         | there are cues. Also there is mutuality, back and forth.
         | 
         | I also question the validity of the cultural concept of
         | "oversharing" being as always bad. Maybe it's bad by
         | definition, but then what is "oversharing?" If you share am I
         | allowed to give you advice?
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | my definition of oversharing is when the recipient signals
           | that they are not interested. in other words it depends on
           | the other. there is no general line, and each person is
           | different. you never know. it also depends on the character
           | of the recipient. you may tell me things that are way to
           | personal that i am not ready to talk about, but i'll most
           | likely ignore that unless you become obnoxious about it,
           | because i find an offensive reaction to oversharing just as
           | bad and i don't want to lose your friendship over your
           | "mistake".
           | 
           | i'd also say that if someone you consider a friend turns away
           | because of your oversharing, then they probably weren't a
           | good friend to begin with. the only danger is if you tell
           | someone something personal that they end up sharing with
           | others, but that's a breach of trust by that person, not bad
           | oversharing.
        
         | cjcenizal wrote:
         | It's all relative. You can share something slightly personal or
         | controversial and see where it lands in the other person's
         | comfort zone. Then it's up to you to decide what to do with
         | that info.
        
       | nntwozz wrote:
       | "It means mutual empathy -- they get you and you get them. It's
       | discovering similar values, experiences and perspectives. It's a
       | feeling of trust and comfort where you both feel safe to say what
       | is truly on your mind."
       | 
       | Ah, sounds all fine and dandy!
       | 
       | But what do you do when you discover you don't have similar
       | values?
       | 
       | Maybe there's no answer in todays polarized world; personally
       | aspire to this:                   I don't like that man. I must
       | get to know him better.              -- Abraham Lincoln
        
         | daymanstep wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | 4gotunameagain wrote:
           | Using one of the most of extreme of examples to discredit an
           | argument that is meant to bring unity, makes me not like you,
           | and not wanting to know you better ;)_
        
             | optimlayer wrote:
             | which would make you not like him even more, and thus
             | wanting to know him better :D
        
               | dang wrote:
               | This is offtopic but can you please email
               | hn@ycombinator.com? I want to ask you about
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523452.
        
           | throwaway290 wrote:
           | Maybe if you understand how that happened you would have an
           | idea how to make the world have fewer people like that?
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | One of the most important things, in my experience, when in
             | an adversarial relationship, is to _understand_ , and,
             | quite often, to _respect_ my opponent. I need to understand
             | _why_ they are doing what they do, so I can make plans to
             | counter them. Often, I can find ways to defuse the
             | conflict, by negotiating compromises.
             | 
             | A pithy way to put it, is if you want to understand rats,
             | talk to an exterminator.
        
           | tuvang wrote:
           | I get this is sarcastic but getting to know people like that
           | is literally how the field of criminal psychology was born
           | and helped stop many people like Bundy.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation
           | of what someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to
           | criticize. Assume good faith._"
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | I have no desire to get to know someone who is racist or
         | homophobic. We can disagree on supply side economics or
         | universal healthcare all day long. I don't owe my energy to get
         | to know assholes.
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | There's little better than helping someone like that expand
           | their understanding of the world and their place in it. In
           | the end, influencing hearts and minds is one of the few
           | things you can do that will have a lasting impact after
           | you're gone.
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | we should all aspire to be a little bit like daryl davis.
             | just a bit. i am not going out of my way to seek out people
             | like that, like he did, but when i discover that one of my
             | friends is leaning into that direction, then i look to
             | daryl davis for inspiration.
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | Why do I have the feeling you are not a minority, have
               | never been stopped or questioned for being some place you
               | "didn't belong" or had to tell your six foot 3 step son
               | to make sure that he and his other Black friend (two of
               | five Black guys in the entire school) didn't walk to the
               | Waffle House to meet their friends after the football
               | game unless their White friend was going with them
               | because they would get harassed by the police?
               | 
               | No I'm not saying "everyone is racist". But it's not my
               | responsibility to spend my energy educating racist and to
               | proffer myself as "one of the good ones".
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | The Daryl Davis that was mentioned is a black man who
               | befriended many KKK members and resulted in them giving
               | up their robes
               | 
               | https://www.ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_klan_we_talk
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | You didn't answer the question - are you a minority?
               | 
               | Do you also think Hispanic people who are here legally
               | should have a chat with a bunch of ICE agents to change
               | their hearts and minds?
               | 
               | If you are White, would you go out of your way to reach
               | out to someone who belongs to a group who actively hates
               | White people? I'm not naming a specific group even though
               | I'm sure they exists because I honestly have no idea what
               | groups they are and I would no more spend energy trying
               | to change their minds either. If anyone in my family said
               | anything that was outright racist or homophobic I would
               | check them also.
               | 
               | My dad (now 83) on the other hand did slightly change his
               | opinion on sexuality when he had to admit that one of his
               | nephews were gay. But even then on a macro level he isn't
               | going to be waving a Pride flag around and he still
               | thinks being gay is a moral sin that is going to damn a
               | person to hell.
               | 
               | It's just like a White guy I was friends with for years
               | on a personal level, I had no doubt that if I needed him
               | or if he saw someone harassing me or my family he would
               | take out one of his many guns and defend me.
               | 
               | But once Trump came on the scene and I saw some of his
               | posts on FB, I realized that he treated me as "one of the
               | good ones" and if I was some random guy that he met on
               | the street he would've treated me differently. He went on
               | a racist tirade on Facebook about his daughter dating a
               | Black guy for instance.
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | I'm not the person you were replying to originally, I was
               | providing context for who Daryl Davis is and what he has
               | done
               | 
               | That doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same thing,
               | anymore than save the whales or end world hunger. Only
               | that people aren't immutable and irredeemable and it's
               | not fair to dismiss the idea of connecting with them as
               | inherently ridiculous
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and
               | become a multi billionaire, you can too. It's
               | "Survivorshio Bias" at its finest.
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | "Have patience and try to understand people you disagree
               | with, and they might be open to changing their mind"
               | isn't an out-of-reach unicorn tech investment, it is a
               | fundamental building block of effective human
               | communication. Ask any good salesperson
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | There is a huge difference between "I don't agree with
               | your stance on supply side economics or universal
               | healthcare" and "I would just as well see you hanging
               | from a tree as sitting here next to me" or "because you
               | decide to love someone of the same sex, you are going to
               | bring an end to this great nation and I will do
               | everything I can to make your life miserable",
               | 
               | I am not trying to "understand" anyone who thinks someone
               | doesn't deserve to exist.
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | So don't. But why insist to everyone _else_ that engaging
               | with prejudice and changing people 's minds is
               | impossible?
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Yet I bet you're not going to try to do outreach to
               | people you know want to see you or your family harmed
               | just because of the color of your skin...
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | Why do you assume that, and what is it you would like to
               | achieve by saying so? Do you think I champion this
               | because I've never helped someone become less prejudiced?
               | 
               | I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. But do you
               | think the world will just change for the better of its
               | own accord (or that it will never change for the better)?
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | i didn't say that you should. please reread what i said:
               | i would not go out of my way to find these people, but if
               | one of my friends turned out to be one of them, then i
               | would try to slowly change their mind. using daryl davis
               | as inspiration means that if he can befriend complete
               | strangers to change their mind, then i can make an effort
               | with the friends that i already have. that's all i am
               | suggesting here. and in particular this call goes out to
               | people who are not a minority themselves.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | By definition, as a Black guy, how would I have White
               | friends who didn't like Black people? I mentioned I go
               | down to the bar downstairs from where I live where I'm
               | friends with the bartender to hang out with him and
               | whoever comes by - all tourists who I will probably never
               | see again (near Disney world). I've met and spoken to
               | people all over the world and even had a few shallow
               | conversations with people who only spoke Spanish using my
               | very limited (B1) level Spanish speaking skills.
               | 
               | What I'm not going to do is go to a rural evangelical
               | church in Alabama to let them get to know me.
               | 
               | I hate the narrative that I'm suppose to be "the better
               | person". I don't owe anyone my energy. I don't owe people
               | "forgiveness" who want to bring harm to me or my family.
               | I have no need to show people that I'm "the model negro".
               | 
               | I also wouldn't have "friends" of any color who spew
               | racists or homophobic BS. Again I have plenty of friends
               | who are traditional Reagan/Bush/Romney pre-2016
               | conservatives. We disagree on certain things. But we
               | agree on common human decency.
               | 
               | I also find the "allyship" crap that I see in leftist
               | circles vomit worthy.
               | 
               | On another post here on HN, someone posted on an "Ask HN"
               | how could they find a job as someone with cerebral palsy.
               | I mentioned that I had "CP" that mostly affected my left
               | hand and went on about the post.
               | 
               | Then I had I guess people who called themselves
               | "disability allies" chastise _me_ for using the
               | abbreviation "CP" because it was also an abbreviation for
               | child porn.
               | 
               | I had to point out that every single disability
               | organization like Easter Seal (the place I went growing
               | up) abbreviated it CP.
               | 
               | It's no different than I assume White people telling me
               | that I should befriend a Klansmen to change their mind.
               | Until you have walked in my skin, you have no right to
               | tell me how I should spend my time changing the minds of
               | a bunch of racists pricks.
        
             | JustExAWS wrote:
             | This is honestly a naive take and probably comes from
             | someone who is not a minority (I am) or someone who didn't
             | grow up in the south.
             | 
             | It reminds me of the vomit inducing DEI training I was
             | forced to endure and the "allyship" BS when I did my stint
             | at BigTech between 2020-2023.
             | 
             | There are deeply religious people who sincerely think from
             | decades of growing up being indoctrinated in the church who
             | believe that miscegenation is a sin and that by allowing
             | "the gays" to get married that God will destroy the
             | country.
             | 
             | I also lived in what was a famous "sundown town" until
             | recently for eight years (yes this one
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WErjPmFulQ0). I didn't live
             | there myself until 2016. Where we lived is approximately a
             | 10 minute drive from where that outdoor scene was shot. We
             | had a house built in the burbs there. Even though I made by
             | myself twice the household income on what has become the
             | most affluent burb of Atlanta, my 6 foot 3 stepson who had
             | grown up in the burbs of Atlanta all of his life still got
             | questioned by a Karen when he was in the neighborhood pool
             | because she didn't think he belong there. Was I suppose to
             | approach her and we sit down and have a coffee while
             | introduce her to Black culture? It's not my duty to be an
             | ambassador to anyone.
             | 
             | Right now, 40% of the country is cheering Trump's treatment
             | of LGBT and especially trans and immigrants.
             | 
             | And even if someone who is a racist sees me - a successful
             | "articulate", Black person who happens to know how to code
             | switch on demand, in their mind they probably see ne as
             | "not like other Black people).
             | 
             | Don't get me wrong, I always "assume positive intent" and I
             | am not at all uncomfortable in spaces where most people
             | think I should be uncomfortable.
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | Out of curiosity, how do you think society should deal
               | with such people?
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | At 51, that's not my responsibility. We have seen that
               | much of rural America have no desire to get out of their
               | Fox News induced bubble.
               | 
               | It's even worse than I thought it was before 2020. When
               | Fox News called the election fairly in 2020 and any other
               | time it veers slightly off the Trump bandwagon, even it
               | is punished by the viewers.
               | 
               | It's just like with religious people (subject change I'm
               | not trying to imply all religious people are racist). I
               | once read about a deeply religious lady who had 7 kids
               | and 6 of them died during a tsunami and she said she was
               | so grateful to God and how good he was for saving one.
               | 
               | You can't change people's deeply held beliefs. Sure you
               | might be able to get people to see different about right
               | vs left policy decisions or at least respect your
               | viewpoint. But people's value systems are about identity
               | and community especially in the rural Bible Belt where
               | their shared culture and since of belonging is based on
               | the church and now the church has based its culture on
               | populism.
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | I'm sure the 51 year olds in the population you're
               | referring to don't consider themselves absolved of their
               | responsibility (as they see it)
               | 
               | Maybe the fact that so many people are so willing to
               | entirely wipe their hands of things and write off half
               | the country as racist idiots is contributing more to the
               | problem than churches.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | And I'm sure your insight about how much energy Black
               | people spend on changing hearts and minds comes from your
               | personal experience sitting around the dinner table with
               | your family or when you're having drinks with your
               | friends?
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | How is it "my responsibility"? My "responsibility" starts
               | and ends with my family. I will even go a step further
               | and say it's my responsibility to advocate for policies
               | that lift people up and provide a social safety net. If I
               | decide to volunteer my time to help others that's my
               | choice.
               | 
               | It's definitely not my responsibility to put myself out
               | there to change the hearts and minds of racists pricks.
               | While it is my responsibility to assume the best in
               | individuals and to treat people like people.
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | You might find this organization will resonate with you:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braver_Angels
               | 
               | > Braver Angels ... is a ... nonprofit dedicated to
               | political depolarization. The organization runs
               | workshops, debates, and other events where "red"
               | (conservative) and "blue" (liberal) participants attempt
               | to better understand one another's positions and discover
               | their shared values.
               | 
               | > The organization states that it is the "largest,
               | grassroots, bipartisan organization in America dedicated
               | to reviving the communal spirit of American democracy."
               | As noted by Cavendish, they say that their "method
               | involves bringing politically diverse people together in
               | small groups to listen empathetically to each others'
               | perspectives."
        
           | anonymars wrote:
           | A black man befriended a KKK wizard and has convinced over
           | 200 klansmen to give up their robes
           | 
           | https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-
           | convinc...
        
           | taneq wrote:
           | I don't think this is an unreasonable stance. I guess we're
           | going with downvote=disagree for this one.
           | 
           | It's great if you can understand and connect with someone
           | who's fundamentally decent but uninformed/misinformed and so
           | holds some questionable views. I don't know if those views
           | really count as "values" in this sense, though. Values tend
           | to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly
           | immutable. If someone feels it's okay to kick puppies, maybe
           | I can convince them that kicking puppies is bad and they
           | should stop, but they're still _a person who is capable of
           | being okay with kicking puppies_ and that 's not someone I
           | want to be friends with.
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | _Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and
             | mostly immutable_
             | 
             | i strongly disagree with that. values are learned, and they
             | can be unlearned. people can change, and someone who kicks
             | puppies can not only be made aware of the pain they are
             | inflicting, and also completely turn around and reject
             | their previous behavior. there is no invisible line that if
             | you'd cross it, you wouldn't be able to turn back from.
             | believing that denies others the power to change
             | themselves.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | So go out and try to change the values of your typical
               | rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans
               | issues today. I'm not going to speak about other
               | religions that I don't know about personally.
               | 
               | When was the last time you hung around a group of
               | conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain
               | cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more
               | liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil
               | rights and treating all human beings decently.
               | 
               | How much time have you spent in the Bible Belt?
               | 
               | There are places in the south that held segregated proms
               | as recently as 2014.
               | 
               | Once (the royal) you hurt my family or insult anyone I
               | care about because of the color of their skin or about
               | their sexuality, I don't owe you forgiveness or an
               | explanation for my right to exist overall or be in "your
               | space".
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | i am not saying you have any kind of obligation to do
               | anything to change someones mind. nor am i saying that it
               | would be easy. i am just suggesting not to dismiss that
               | change is possible. if daryl davis can change members of
               | the kkk, then we can change conservative christians too.
               | it takes effort and time, but it's not impossible.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Yes and if I tell my kids to drop out of school it's also
               | possible for them to become a billionaire because I read
               | about a few people who did so....
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I believe that another quote attributed to Honest Abe, is _"The
         | best way to destroy an enemy, is to make him your friend."_
         | 
         | In my own life, I regularly interact (and connect) with folks
         | that are notoriously difficult to deal with.
         | 
         | This had significant advantages in my career. The folks in the
         | office --regardless of their proclivities-- were amateurs,
         | compared to some of the people I hung with, in my free time.
        
           | absoluteunit1 wrote:
           | > This had significant advantages in my career. The folks in
           | the office --regardless of their proclivities-- were
           | amateurs, compared to some of the people I hung with, in my
           | free time.
           | 
           | Could expand on this? What advantages in your career? Also,
           | what do you mean by:
           | 
           | > were amateurs, compared to some of the people I hung with,
           | in my free time.
           | 
           | Do you intentionally look to meet people with whom you
           | disagree?
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | _> Do you intentionally look to meet people with whom you
             | disagree?_
             | 
             | Sort of. I like to develop good relationships with people
             | that have a hard time getting along with others. I consider
             | it to be a bit of a "challenge," and I like to live a life,
             | where I'm constantly challenging myself. Also, I
             | participate in an organization that is focused on helping
             | people recover from significant life trauma. It's sort of
             | my job.
             | 
             | Part of it, is because I'm "on the spectrum," myself, and
             | come from a childhood fraught with atomic wedgies. I have
             | some empathy for outsiders. I don't come from a "superior
             | position," I have very much been an outlier, for most of my
             | life. I know what it feels like.
             | 
             | It's been my experience that people that are difficult to
             | deal with, come from some kind of personal trauma. I have
             | found that they are often quite open to getting along with
             | folks that are willing to accept the idiosyncrasies that
             | arise from their coping mechanisms.
             | 
             | So if I can accept, and even be close friends with, someone
             | that has spent significant time in Ossining, for violent
             | offenses, having an employee throw a minor tantrum because
             | I said "no," is a cakewalk.
        
         | xelxebar wrote:
         | > But what do you do when you discover you don't have similar
         | values?
         | 
         | Look deeper? Explicitly held beliefs are just a sliver of the
         | tip of the iceberg that constitutes our experience as humans.
         | The US, in particular, seems particularly fond of declarations
         | of identity, so it helps to understand that such things are
         | about as fundamental as the health of your pancreas.
         | 
         | IMHO, polarizing reactions, whether in others or yourself, look
         | like obvious fear responses, which often respond to empathy and
         | understanding.
         | 
         | More than fear, certainty smells like the mind killer to me.
        
           | op00to wrote:
           | I've spent the better part of 20 years trying to get through
           | to my Trump loving, racist, hateful father in law using
           | compassion and shared understanding. At some point you need
           | to accept that some people don't respond to that, and usually
           | it's the people who lean towards the authoritative that are
           | not receptive.
        
             | FearNotDaniel wrote:
             | Your comment is very confusing. The article is about making
             | a connection with someone, the measure of which is that you
             | have achieved a shared understanding. It sounds as if you
             | have managed that. And yet it seems that this is not enough
             | for you and you are expecting to "get through" to him in
             | some other sense, that he will be "receptive" to something
             | more that goes beyond mutual understanding, that he will
             | "respond to that" shared understanding with something that
             | goes beyond personal connection. What is it you are looking
             | for, that would make that connection complete? That he
             | recants all of his views and changes them to be in line
             | with your own? Or is there something else that you expect
             | shared understanding to lead to, rather than being a goal
             | in itself?
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | They were pretty clearly responding to the previous
               | comment more than to the article directly??
        
               | op00to wrote:
               | I want him to realize that he achieved what he did not
               | because he's somehow better than people whose skin is
               | darker than his, but because he was very lucky in where
               | and when he was born, who his parents were, etc. I want
               | him to realize that pulling up the ladder behind him (he
               | often says that minorities don't deserve the same
               | benefits of society that he got) does nothing but make
               | life worse for other people.
        
         | joules77 wrote:
         | Got to go beyond shared values/experiences/perspective.
         | 
         | The deeper commonality lies in the messy hardware we all share
         | - the human mind.
         | 
         | If you take a Philosophy or Psychology class, it usually starts
         | by showing how incoherent and conflict-ridden the mind is.
         | 
         | From Plato's tripartite soul (reason vs. appetite vs. spirit),
         | to Hume's (reason is just a slave to our passions), to Freud's
         | (id vs ego vs superego), to Kahneman (System 1 vs. System 2)
         | there's a constant theme running - the mind is not unified.
         | 
         | It's a battlefield of impulses, instincts, ideals, and
         | rationalizations.
         | 
         | And because we all live inside this strange ridiculous machine,
         | one that can easily go off balance, we're all vulnerable in the
         | same essential way.
         | 
         | We all know what it's like to be overwhelmed, to act
         | irrationally, to feel pulled in opposite directions. That's the
         | real basis for connection: shared fragility, not shared
         | ideology.
         | 
         | That's why systems(and relationships) that are grounded in
         | patience, forgiveness, empathy, compassion etc survive the long
         | term.
         | 
         | They don't depend on sameness, they depend on the recognition
         | that everyone is doing battle with themselves. When that
         | realization dawns it get easier to speak to the other person
         | showing you understand this fact. And then we get the
         | possibility of connection even across radical differences.
        
         | taneq wrote:
         | Maybe you don't need to connect with everyone? If someone has a
         | few different opinions to me, that's fine, I'm sure there's
         | plenty of other things we agree on. Maybe we can find common
         | ground and connect over that. If someone has fundamentally
         | incompatible values to mine about things that I consider
         | important, then I probably consider them a bad person. Like, I
         | don't know how else to define "bad person". Definitely not
         | someone I want to connect with.
        
       | hshshshshsh wrote:
       | > A good place to start was to figure out what makes me happy.
       | So, I wrote down the best experiences of my life so far. I came
       | up with 20. 19 of them were experiences where I connected with
       | people.
       | 
       | You are assuming you know what best experience you can experience
       | by looking at the past. But this is not necessarily correct.
       | Don't assume you know the answer. Try new things. Some of the
       | best experiences come from within. Boy you would be surprised:)
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | To connect two USB-C cables together, you'll need a USB-C
       | coupler, also known as an adapter or extender. This allows you to
       | plug one USB-C cable into each end of the coupler, effectively
       | joining them to create a longer cable.
        
       | JLemay wrote:
       | Empathy plays a crucial role in strengthening human connections,
       | which unfortunately I believe has been eroded strongly by social
       | media and a rise in individualism. The combination of anonymity,
       | and the modern day psychological wiring towards instant
       | gratification, makes online cruelty largely rewarding
       | unfortunately.
        
       | wanderingstan wrote:
       | > People hate small talk because it avoids [vulnerability]. The
       | purpose of social conversation is to connect but talking about
       | the weather or the latest sportz ball result reveals sh!t.
       | 
       | I'm a defender of small talk. It's the MVP of connection; you are
       | at least talking to another person, mutual acknowledgement. It's
       | where relationships begin. It's where you and the other can
       | safely feel out the space of shared values and what's top of
       | mind: sports? Work? Family?
       | 
       | Oversharing is perhaps defined as sharing too much too soon, when
       | you should still be doing small talk.
       | 
       | Sometimes people say they hate small talk but complain of the
       | difficulty of making friends. Start by learning how to have light
       | conversations. Keep talking. Depth comes naturally with time.
        
       | satisfice wrote:
       | "People" don't hate small talk. SOME people hate small talk. But
       | small talk is a gateway to connection. It is not to be avoided,
       | but to be embraced-- if connection is what you want.
       | 
       | And the people the writer speaks of don't "hate" small talk,
       | mostly. They are uncomfortable with it. This is not the same as
       | hate.
       | 
       | I suspect some of the people who are uncomfortable with small
       | talk are that way because they don't want to delay talking about
       | big things. Others are uncomfortable because they don't WANT it
       | to lead to big things. Others think it IS a big thing and are
       | afraid to do it wrong. And finally others falsely believe that
       | small talk means telling lies.
       | 
       | I like to talk about big things, but I don't mind starting with
       | little things.
        
       | Notatheist wrote:
       | If you want to explore connecting with people I can highly
       | recommend social dancing.
       | 
       | >People hate small talk because it avoids this
       | 
       | I don't believe that. You can connect with someone before you've
       | exchanged names, and you can fail to connect with someone you've
       | shared your life's story with. This is the same mistake autists
       | at my dance school make (including myself). They believe
       | connection demands a rational exchange of valuable information.
       | In dance that would be the technical complexity of whatever
       | you're leading and the grace and mastery you lead it with. In
       | language it would be sharing hopes and fears.
       | 
       | Small talk robs you of all that. It's a true measure of someone's
       | ability to connect.
        
         | em-bee wrote:
         | _I can highly recommend social dancing_
         | 
         | as an introvert who is uncomfortable to expose themselves to
         | much i prefer more formal dancing, that is, where the rules of
         | how to move are predefined and you are all learning those exact
         | moves without having to be creative in any form. (once you
         | learned a couple of traditional dance moves you can take them
         | to somewhere where more creativity is asked for)
        
       | cloverich wrote:
       | What i want to know more about is "clicking" with people. I
       | traversed social isolation and anxiety in my youth to get pretty
       | decent at small talk and for a while that was all there was it
       | seemed. Then as the environments changed i found i was able to
       | more fully connect and establish friendships with people.
       | 
       | But whats always stood out to me is the people I ended up
       | persisting with, how quickly that small talk phase passed,
       | sometimes it seems like within the first encounter. My most
       | recent developing friendship i distinctly remember it was within
       | the first few words, both my wife and I just knew oh this person
       | fits. I always expect and still believe getting to know someone
       | better can lead to shared understandings, better conversations,
       | friendships. But at the same time, my anectdotal experience has
       | been the people that worked out and persisted, it was obvious
       | within five minutes or less (ie that initial gut feeling never
       | changed).
       | 
       | I guess the social cues or mannerisms or something like that
       | which is perhaps hard to consciously describe but to an expert
       | would be likely obvious, that perhaps reveals far more about you
       | than your words can impart. Im sure its not that complicated but
       | also think if you are forcing the small talk and really
       | struggling to connect, dont be afraid to branch out and look for
       | those clicks.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-07-24 23:01 UTC)