[HN Gopher] What does connecting with someone mean?
___________________________________________________________________
What does connecting with someone mean?
Author : bradwoodsio
Score : 75 points
Date : 2025-07-24 11:16 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (talk.bradwoods.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (talk.bradwoods.io)
| codeful wrote:
| Good article! Short and straigt to the point and it gave me an
| insigt. Check out his other writings in his blog
| inezk wrote:
| Great insights. In US people do ask one another "how are you?",
| perhaps in a shallow way - but I think it's still an opener that
| can lead to more meaningful conversation. In Poland for instance,
| where I'm from, people don't ask "how are you?" one another -
| which slightly limits that opportunity. At the same time Europe
| as a whole has so much better work life balance which allows for
| many more outside work friends and family connections and
| spending time together.
| ishita159 wrote:
| true, people are being polite mostly though.
| al_borland wrote:
| I'm from the US. "How are you," is indeed a very shallow
| question that expects a very shallow and prescriptive response.
| I've seen where people answer it honestly, and when they walk
| away the person asking says something to the effect of, "god, I
| didn't need his whole life story." Experiences like this make
| me more hesitant to answer honestly.
|
| The better you know someone, the more this rule starts to bend,
| but that doesn't help with establishing new connections.
|
| Even with people who are close, there is some expectation to
| keep things pleasant and not unload bad news on them, or seem
| like you're bragging about good stuff, when asked how you are.
| This is why you'll often see movies where someone asks, "how
| are you," and then after the generic answer they follow it up
| with, "how are you really?"
|
| In other situations, especially with good stuff, people feel
| like they need to be invited to talk about something exciting
| in their life. If they have something fun planned for the
| weekend or did something fun last weekend, they'll ask someone
| else what they did, hoping to get that same question back, so
| they can have an excuse to talk about what they did. No one
| ever really told me this and it took me longer than I'd like to
| admit to figure it out.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| When someone says "How are you", I sometimes say "Crummy, but
| thanks for asking." I'm not oversharing, but I'm also not
| giving them a shallow, dishonest reply. I'm leaving the door
| open for a deeper conversation, but I'm not forcing it. Then
| it's up to them whether we just move on, or whether a real
| conversation happens.
| le-mark wrote:
| "I didn't die in my sleep last night so I've got that going
| for me" dark dry and true.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| I tend to use "how are you today on a scale of 10?" as an ice
| breaker.
|
| This then allows you to open the question, as well gives
| choice to the person.
|
| "Six is good, why a six?", "anything wrong, why a four? Et
| cetera
| arcbyte wrote:
| > I've seen where people answer it honestly, and when they
| walk away the person asking says something to the effect of,
| "god, I didn't need his whole life story."
|
| I've definitely experienced the same. However ive realized
| that invariably, the person answering honestly is wayyy
| happier in general than the person being critical. Learning
| to have the freedom to express yourself, invite connection,
| and let failed invitations go, is a superpower for a happy
| life.
| grep_name wrote:
| I've lived my whole life in the southeastern US, and the
| comments online about this always make me feel like an alien.
| Everyone here always seems to imply that it's meaningless
| because "You have to say 'good', and if you don't say that
| people get upset," but I've just never once had that
| experience.
|
| I almost never say 'good' in response to that question, even
| to a coworker I don't know well. In my friend groups, usually
| people will be straightforward about how they're doing as
| well. Maybe people don't know how to say 'bad' without
| following up with a story? It's easy once you start doing it.
| "Not great, but it's fine" or "I'm just keeping along /
| taking it day by day" is a fairly common response to get from
| me, especially lately, and it's always honest. Sometimes I
| will just say "TBH this week completely sucks for me" before
| continuing with what the conversation was about originally.
| If things are going well I will be effusive in my (still
| short) response ("I'm doing awesome actually"). And I do care
| about how the other person is doing when they respond. I've
| even gone so far as to ask, after finding out about bad news
| later in the conversation, "Damn, why'd you say you were
| doing well?".
|
| I find it to be a deeply useful way to start a conversation.
| If you ask how I'm doing and you don't know me well, and I
| say something to imply I'm not having a good day, it
| _completely changes_ the way the conversation should be
| conducted. Same goes for the other person 's response. You
| always start every conversation on the same page ('how
| impatient / stressed is the other person right now?' is one
| of the most important pieces of context you can have). Over
| time, I've even found that it has the benefit of making me
| reflect on a regular basis on how I feel in the moment vs how
| I'm actually doing on a longer-term scale.
| atoav wrote:
| I always thought there are better ways to open a conversation.
| The first thing you have in common with the other person is
| that you are at the same place during the same time as them.
| Depending on the context this can already provide you with
| much, _much_ better ways of starting a conversation than just
| using a "how are you?" to which nobody expects an honest
| answer. But German is my first language and this culturual
| circle isn't exactly known for valuing meaningless smalltalk so
| take this with a grain of salt.
|
| I have found that the key to successfully starting a
| conversation is (1) to be emphatically observant and wonder
| which questions are moving the other person in a given moment
| and (2) be open to take it any direction including shutting up
| without feeling any pressure.
| 9rx wrote:
| _> I always thought there are better ways to open a
| conversation._
|
| Just like everyone else. "How are you?" isn't a conversation
| opener, it's an attention grabber; like "hey", "ahoy",
| "excuse me", or "hello". A device used to give the other
| party a moment to realize your presence and shift their focus
| towards you. If you try to go straight into conversation when
| the other person is off in their own world, nine times out of
| ten you're going to simply get back _" Wait, what? Did you
| say something?"_
| andrepd wrote:
| I wouldn't attach grand meanings to that. Most cultures in
| Europe do have a socially polite "how are you"/"ca va"/"tudo
| bem"/whatever to which you're expected to reply some variation
| of "I'm fine thank you" unless you are good friends and the
| question is meant sincerely.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| That is honestly a shallow greeting that leads to a shallow
| response. I hang out at the bar downstairs from where I live to
| talk to the bartender who is a friend (we have hung out
| before), and whoever else comes by - mostly tourists. My go to
| question is "what keeps you busy"? It's open ended and I can
| talk about almost anything enough to ask questions and keep
| them talking.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| 'how are you' is not a genuine question, it's an opening salvo
| in an interaction ritual. You aren't supposed to _actually_
| answer it.
|
| I hate it, it's absolutely useless and just occupies the first
| few seconds of an interaction for no reason.
| herval wrote:
| I worked in Germany for a while, and it was always hilarious
| when an American would ask a local "how are you?" then proceed
| to be bombarded about how they're having a headache or how
| their baby puked all over them yesterday. It's a question
| that's used almost as a "hello" in the US.
| balfirevic wrote:
| > In US people do ask one another "how are you?", perhaps in a
| shallow way
|
| My understanding is that it is not even a question, the
| question mark at the end is just decoration. Even the shallow
| answer is not necessary, responding with something like, "Hi,
| good to see you" would be perfectly valid.
| bovermyer wrote:
| I wonder where the line is between being willing to be vulnerable
| and oversharing.
| sctb wrote:
| I would suggest that, like many things, that line is dependent
| on all of the details of the situation. Because all of those
| subtle details (e.g. the mood, receptiveness, familiarity,
| interest, etc. of the other person and yourself) matter, you
| need to be able to take those in and respond accordingly. So
| you could say that a prerequisite for connection is something
| like "presence", the ability to give your full attention to the
| interaction itself. Or you could say that this is actually the
| essence of connection, and the conversation is an expression of
| that togetherness of presence.
| xelxebar wrote:
| I don't think you can avoid risks and be vulnerable at the same
| time. It's a bit of a catch-22, I'll admit; oversharing can
| push people away, but the only way I know to figure it out is
| to fall, get back up, rinse, and repeat.
| danparsonson wrote:
| It moves over time as you get closer to someone, in concert
| with your mutual trust.
| astura wrote:
| Just keep the conversation appropriate for time, place, and how
| well you know the person. That avoids oversharing.
|
| For example, I overheard a conversation between two coworkers.
| One asked about a health issue and the other responded with
| this long drawn out story about an extremely gruesome injury
| with lots of details leaving everyone extremely uncomfortable.
| The other coworker complained about to me afterwards, because I
| overheard it.
|
| He could have said "oh, I'm doing much better! Had a bad injury
| about six months ago that set me back some, but I'm healed up
| from that now, thankfully!"
|
| Maybe there's a time and place to share the gruesome details,
| depending on who your friends are, but it's certainly not with
| a work acquaintance.
| hshshshshsh wrote:
| You cannot over share Most people don't give a shit about you.
| And the ones who gives a shit does have their own ideas about
| you anyway. So you would be surprised how much influence you
| can do to change those ideas. Even if you change their ideas
| it's still an idea in your head as far as your are concerned.
| Torwald wrote:
| Depends on context. Learn to read the other person or group,
| there are cues. Also there is mutuality, back and forth.
|
| I also question the validity of the cultural concept of
| "oversharing" being as always bad. Maybe it's bad by
| definition, but then what is "oversharing?" If you share am I
| allowed to give you advice?
| em-bee wrote:
| my definition of oversharing is when the recipient signals
| that they are not interested. in other words it depends on
| the other. there is no general line, and each person is
| different. you never know. it also depends on the character
| of the recipient. you may tell me things that are way to
| personal that i am not ready to talk about, but i'll most
| likely ignore that unless you become obnoxious about it,
| because i find an offensive reaction to oversharing just as
| bad and i don't want to lose your friendship over your
| "mistake".
|
| i'd also say that if someone you consider a friend turns away
| because of your oversharing, then they probably weren't a
| good friend to begin with. the only danger is if you tell
| someone something personal that they end up sharing with
| others, but that's a breach of trust by that person, not bad
| oversharing.
| cjcenizal wrote:
| It's all relative. You can share something slightly personal or
| controversial and see where it lands in the other person's
| comfort zone. Then it's up to you to decide what to do with
| that info.
| nntwozz wrote:
| "It means mutual empathy -- they get you and you get them. It's
| discovering similar values, experiences and perspectives. It's a
| feeling of trust and comfort where you both feel safe to say what
| is truly on your mind."
|
| Ah, sounds all fine and dandy!
|
| But what do you do when you discover you don't have similar
| values?
|
| Maybe there's no answer in todays polarized world; personally
| aspire to this: I don't like that man. I must
| get to know him better. -- Abraham Lincoln
| daymanstep wrote:
| [flagged]
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| Using one of the most of extreme of examples to discredit an
| argument that is meant to bring unity, makes me not like you,
| and not wanting to know you better ;)_
| optimlayer wrote:
| which would make you not like him even more, and thus
| wanting to know him better :D
| dang wrote:
| This is offtopic but can you please email
| hn@ycombinator.com? I want to ask you about
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523452.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| Maybe if you understand how that happened you would have an
| idea how to make the world have fewer people like that?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| One of the most important things, in my experience, when in
| an adversarial relationship, is to _understand_ , and,
| quite often, to _respect_ my opponent. I need to understand
| _why_ they are doing what they do, so I can make plans to
| counter them. Often, I can find ways to defuse the
| conflict, by negotiating compromises.
|
| A pithy way to put it, is if you want to understand rats,
| talk to an exterminator.
| tuvang wrote:
| I get this is sarcastic but getting to know people like that
| is literally how the field of criminal psychology was born
| and helped stop many people like Bundy.
| dang wrote:
| " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation
| of what someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to
| criticize. Assume good faith._"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| scarface_74 wrote:
| I have no desire to get to know someone who is racist or
| homophobic. We can disagree on supply side economics or
| universal healthcare all day long. I don't owe my energy to get
| to know assholes.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| There's little better than helping someone like that expand
| their understanding of the world and their place in it. In
| the end, influencing hearts and minds is one of the few
| things you can do that will have a lasting impact after
| you're gone.
| em-bee wrote:
| we should all aspire to be a little bit like daryl davis.
| just a bit. i am not going out of my way to seek out people
| like that, like he did, but when i discover that one of my
| friends is leaning into that direction, then i look to
| daryl davis for inspiration.
| JustExAWS wrote:
| Why do I have the feeling you are not a minority, have
| never been stopped or questioned for being some place you
| "didn't belong" or had to tell your six foot 3 step son
| to make sure that he and his other Black friend (two of
| five Black guys in the entire school) didn't walk to the
| Waffle House to meet their friends after the football
| game unless their White friend was going with them
| because they would get harassed by the police?
|
| No I'm not saying "everyone is racist". But it's not my
| responsibility to spend my energy educating racist and to
| proffer myself as "one of the good ones".
| anonymars wrote:
| The Daryl Davis that was mentioned is a black man who
| befriended many KKK members and resulted in them giving
| up their robes
|
| https://www.ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_klan_we_talk
| raw_anon_1111 wrote:
| You didn't answer the question - are you a minority?
|
| Do you also think Hispanic people who are here legally
| should have a chat with a bunch of ICE agents to change
| their hearts and minds?
|
| If you are White, would you go out of your way to reach
| out to someone who belongs to a group who actively hates
| White people? I'm not naming a specific group even though
| I'm sure they exists because I honestly have no idea what
| groups they are and I would no more spend energy trying
| to change their minds either. If anyone in my family said
| anything that was outright racist or homophobic I would
| check them also.
|
| My dad (now 83) on the other hand did slightly change his
| opinion on sexuality when he had to admit that one of his
| nephews were gay. But even then on a macro level he isn't
| going to be waving a Pride flag around and he still
| thinks being gay is a moral sin that is going to damn a
| person to hell.
|
| It's just like a White guy I was friends with for years
| on a personal level, I had no doubt that if I needed him
| or if he saw someone harassing me or my family he would
| take out one of his many guns and defend me.
|
| But once Trump came on the scene and I saw some of his
| posts on FB, I realized that he treated me as "one of the
| good ones" and if I was some random guy that he met on
| the street he would've treated me differently. He went on
| a racist tirade on Facebook about his daughter dating a
| Black guy for instance.
| anonymars wrote:
| I'm not the person you were replying to originally, I was
| providing context for who Daryl Davis is and what he has
| done
|
| That doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same thing,
| anymore than save the whales or end world hunger. Only
| that people aren't immutable and irredeemable and it's
| not fair to dismiss the idea of connecting with them as
| inherently ridiculous
| scarface_74 wrote:
| Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and
| become a multi billionaire, you can too. It's
| "Survivorshio Bias" at its finest.
| anonymars wrote:
| "Have patience and try to understand people you disagree
| with, and they might be open to changing their mind"
| isn't an out-of-reach unicorn tech investment, it is a
| fundamental building block of effective human
| communication. Ask any good salesperson
| JustExAWS wrote:
| There is a huge difference between "I don't agree with
| your stance on supply side economics or universal
| healthcare" and "I would just as well see you hanging
| from a tree as sitting here next to me" or "because you
| decide to love someone of the same sex, you are going to
| bring an end to this great nation and I will do
| everything I can to make your life miserable",
|
| I am not trying to "understand" anyone who thinks someone
| doesn't deserve to exist.
| anonymars wrote:
| So don't. But why insist to everyone _else_ that engaging
| with prejudice and changing people 's minds is
| impossible?
| scarface_74 wrote:
| Yet I bet you're not going to try to do outreach to
| people you know want to see you or your family harmed
| just because of the color of your skin...
| anonymars wrote:
| Why do you assume that, and what is it you would like to
| achieve by saying so? Do you think I champion this
| because I've never helped someone become less prejudiced?
|
| I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. But do you
| think the world will just change for the better of its
| own accord (or that it will never change for the better)?
| em-bee wrote:
| i didn't say that you should. please reread what i said:
| i would not go out of my way to find these people, but if
| one of my friends turned out to be one of them, then i
| would try to slowly change their mind. using daryl davis
| as inspiration means that if he can befriend complete
| strangers to change their mind, then i can make an effort
| with the friends that i already have. that's all i am
| suggesting here. and in particular this call goes out to
| people who are not a minority themselves.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| By definition, as a Black guy, how would I have White
| friends who didn't like Black people? I mentioned I go
| down to the bar downstairs from where I live where I'm
| friends with the bartender to hang out with him and
| whoever comes by - all tourists who I will probably never
| see again (near Disney world). I've met and spoken to
| people all over the world and even had a few shallow
| conversations with people who only spoke Spanish using my
| very limited (B1) level Spanish speaking skills.
|
| What I'm not going to do is go to a rural evangelical
| church in Alabama to let them get to know me.
|
| I hate the narrative that I'm suppose to be "the better
| person". I don't owe anyone my energy. I don't owe people
| "forgiveness" who want to bring harm to me or my family.
| I have no need to show people that I'm "the model negro".
|
| I also wouldn't have "friends" of any color who spew
| racists or homophobic BS. Again I have plenty of friends
| who are traditional Reagan/Bush/Romney pre-2016
| conservatives. We disagree on certain things. But we
| agree on common human decency.
|
| I also find the "allyship" crap that I see in leftist
| circles vomit worthy.
|
| On another post here on HN, someone posted on an "Ask HN"
| how could they find a job as someone with cerebral palsy.
| I mentioned that I had "CP" that mostly affected my left
| hand and went on about the post.
|
| Then I had I guess people who called themselves
| "disability allies" chastise _me_ for using the
| abbreviation "CP" because it was also an abbreviation for
| child porn.
|
| I had to point out that every single disability
| organization like Easter Seal (the place I went growing
| up) abbreviated it CP.
|
| It's no different than I assume White people telling me
| that I should befriend a Klansmen to change their mind.
| Until you have walked in my skin, you have no right to
| tell me how I should spend my time changing the minds of
| a bunch of racists pricks.
| JustExAWS wrote:
| This is honestly a naive take and probably comes from
| someone who is not a minority (I am) or someone who didn't
| grow up in the south.
|
| It reminds me of the vomit inducing DEI training I was
| forced to endure and the "allyship" BS when I did my stint
| at BigTech between 2020-2023.
|
| There are deeply religious people who sincerely think from
| decades of growing up being indoctrinated in the church who
| believe that miscegenation is a sin and that by allowing
| "the gays" to get married that God will destroy the
| country.
|
| I also lived in what was a famous "sundown town" until
| recently for eight years (yes this one
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WErjPmFulQ0). I didn't live
| there myself until 2016. Where we lived is approximately a
| 10 minute drive from where that outdoor scene was shot. We
| had a house built in the burbs there. Even though I made by
| myself twice the household income on what has become the
| most affluent burb of Atlanta, my 6 foot 3 stepson who had
| grown up in the burbs of Atlanta all of his life still got
| questioned by a Karen when he was in the neighborhood pool
| because she didn't think he belong there. Was I suppose to
| approach her and we sit down and have a coffee while
| introduce her to Black culture? It's not my duty to be an
| ambassador to anyone.
|
| Right now, 40% of the country is cheering Trump's treatment
| of LGBT and especially trans and immigrants.
|
| And even if someone who is a racist sees me - a successful
| "articulate", Black person who happens to know how to code
| switch on demand, in their mind they probably see ne as
| "not like other Black people).
|
| Don't get me wrong, I always "assume positive intent" and I
| am not at all uncomfortable in spaces where most people
| think I should be uncomfortable.
| squigz wrote:
| Out of curiosity, how do you think society should deal
| with such people?
| JustExAWS wrote:
| At 51, that's not my responsibility. We have seen that
| much of rural America have no desire to get out of their
| Fox News induced bubble.
|
| It's even worse than I thought it was before 2020. When
| Fox News called the election fairly in 2020 and any other
| time it veers slightly off the Trump bandwagon, even it
| is punished by the viewers.
|
| It's just like with religious people (subject change I'm
| not trying to imply all religious people are racist). I
| once read about a deeply religious lady who had 7 kids
| and 6 of them died during a tsunami and she said she was
| so grateful to God and how good he was for saving one.
|
| You can't change people's deeply held beliefs. Sure you
| might be able to get people to see different about right
| vs left policy decisions or at least respect your
| viewpoint. But people's value systems are about identity
| and community especially in the rural Bible Belt where
| their shared culture and since of belonging is based on
| the church and now the church has based its culture on
| populism.
| squigz wrote:
| I'm sure the 51 year olds in the population you're
| referring to don't consider themselves absolved of their
| responsibility (as they see it)
|
| Maybe the fact that so many people are so willing to
| entirely wipe their hands of things and write off half
| the country as racist idiots is contributing more to the
| problem than churches.
| raw_anon_1111 wrote:
| And I'm sure your insight about how much energy Black
| people spend on changing hearts and minds comes from your
| personal experience sitting around the dinner table with
| your family or when you're having drinks with your
| friends?
| scarface_74 wrote:
| How is it "my responsibility"? My "responsibility" starts
| and ends with my family. I will even go a step further
| and say it's my responsibility to advocate for policies
| that lift people up and provide a social safety net. If I
| decide to volunteer my time to help others that's my
| choice.
|
| It's definitely not my responsibility to put myself out
| there to change the hearts and minds of racists pricks.
| While it is my responsibility to assume the best in
| individuals and to treat people like people.
| anonymars wrote:
| You might find this organization will resonate with you:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braver_Angels
|
| > Braver Angels ... is a ... nonprofit dedicated to
| political depolarization. The organization runs
| workshops, debates, and other events where "red"
| (conservative) and "blue" (liberal) participants attempt
| to better understand one another's positions and discover
| their shared values.
|
| > The organization states that it is the "largest,
| grassroots, bipartisan organization in America dedicated
| to reviving the communal spirit of American democracy."
| As noted by Cavendish, they say that their "method
| involves bringing politically diverse people together in
| small groups to listen empathetically to each others'
| perspectives."
| anonymars wrote:
| A black man befriended a KKK wizard and has convinced over
| 200 klansmen to give up their robes
|
| https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-
| convinc...
| taneq wrote:
| I don't think this is an unreasonable stance. I guess we're
| going with downvote=disagree for this one.
|
| It's great if you can understand and connect with someone
| who's fundamentally decent but uninformed/misinformed and so
| holds some questionable views. I don't know if those views
| really count as "values" in this sense, though. Values tend
| to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly
| immutable. If someone feels it's okay to kick puppies, maybe
| I can convince them that kicking puppies is bad and they
| should stop, but they're still _a person who is capable of
| being okay with kicking puppies_ and that 's not someone I
| want to be friends with.
| em-bee wrote:
| _Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and
| mostly immutable_
|
| i strongly disagree with that. values are learned, and they
| can be unlearned. people can change, and someone who kicks
| puppies can not only be made aware of the pain they are
| inflicting, and also completely turn around and reject
| their previous behavior. there is no invisible line that if
| you'd cross it, you wouldn't be able to turn back from.
| believing that denies others the power to change
| themselves.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| So go out and try to change the values of your typical
| rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans
| issues today. I'm not going to speak about other
| religions that I don't know about personally.
|
| When was the last time you hung around a group of
| conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain
| cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more
| liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil
| rights and treating all human beings decently.
|
| How much time have you spent in the Bible Belt?
|
| There are places in the south that held segregated proms
| as recently as 2014.
|
| Once (the royal) you hurt my family or insult anyone I
| care about because of the color of their skin or about
| their sexuality, I don't owe you forgiveness or an
| explanation for my right to exist overall or be in "your
| space".
| em-bee wrote:
| i am not saying you have any kind of obligation to do
| anything to change someones mind. nor am i saying that it
| would be easy. i am just suggesting not to dismiss that
| change is possible. if daryl davis can change members of
| the kkk, then we can change conservative christians too.
| it takes effort and time, but it's not impossible.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| Yes and if I tell my kids to drop out of school it's also
| possible for them to become a billionaire because I read
| about a few people who did so....
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I believe that another quote attributed to Honest Abe, is _"The
| best way to destroy an enemy, is to make him your friend."_
|
| In my own life, I regularly interact (and connect) with folks
| that are notoriously difficult to deal with.
|
| This had significant advantages in my career. The folks in the
| office --regardless of their proclivities-- were amateurs,
| compared to some of the people I hung with, in my free time.
| absoluteunit1 wrote:
| > This had significant advantages in my career. The folks in
| the office --regardless of their proclivities-- were
| amateurs, compared to some of the people I hung with, in my
| free time.
|
| Could expand on this? What advantages in your career? Also,
| what do you mean by:
|
| > were amateurs, compared to some of the people I hung with,
| in my free time.
|
| Do you intentionally look to meet people with whom you
| disagree?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Do you intentionally look to meet people with whom you
| disagree?_
|
| Sort of. I like to develop good relationships with people
| that have a hard time getting along with others. I consider
| it to be a bit of a "challenge," and I like to live a life,
| where I'm constantly challenging myself. Also, I
| participate in an organization that is focused on helping
| people recover from significant life trauma. It's sort of
| my job.
|
| Part of it, is because I'm "on the spectrum," myself, and
| come from a childhood fraught with atomic wedgies. I have
| some empathy for outsiders. I don't come from a "superior
| position," I have very much been an outlier, for most of my
| life. I know what it feels like.
|
| It's been my experience that people that are difficult to
| deal with, come from some kind of personal trauma. I have
| found that they are often quite open to getting along with
| folks that are willing to accept the idiosyncrasies that
| arise from their coping mechanisms.
|
| So if I can accept, and even be close friends with, someone
| that has spent significant time in Ossining, for violent
| offenses, having an employee throw a minor tantrum because
| I said "no," is a cakewalk.
| xelxebar wrote:
| > But what do you do when you discover you don't have similar
| values?
|
| Look deeper? Explicitly held beliefs are just a sliver of the
| tip of the iceberg that constitutes our experience as humans.
| The US, in particular, seems particularly fond of declarations
| of identity, so it helps to understand that such things are
| about as fundamental as the health of your pancreas.
|
| IMHO, polarizing reactions, whether in others or yourself, look
| like obvious fear responses, which often respond to empathy and
| understanding.
|
| More than fear, certainty smells like the mind killer to me.
| op00to wrote:
| I've spent the better part of 20 years trying to get through
| to my Trump loving, racist, hateful father in law using
| compassion and shared understanding. At some point you need
| to accept that some people don't respond to that, and usually
| it's the people who lean towards the authoritative that are
| not receptive.
| FearNotDaniel wrote:
| Your comment is very confusing. The article is about making
| a connection with someone, the measure of which is that you
| have achieved a shared understanding. It sounds as if you
| have managed that. And yet it seems that this is not enough
| for you and you are expecting to "get through" to him in
| some other sense, that he will be "receptive" to something
| more that goes beyond mutual understanding, that he will
| "respond to that" shared understanding with something that
| goes beyond personal connection. What is it you are looking
| for, that would make that connection complete? That he
| recants all of his views and changes them to be in line
| with your own? Or is there something else that you expect
| shared understanding to lead to, rather than being a goal
| in itself?
| BobaFloutist wrote:
| They were pretty clearly responding to the previous
| comment more than to the article directly??
| op00to wrote:
| I want him to realize that he achieved what he did not
| because he's somehow better than people whose skin is
| darker than his, but because he was very lucky in where
| and when he was born, who his parents were, etc. I want
| him to realize that pulling up the ladder behind him (he
| often says that minorities don't deserve the same
| benefits of society that he got) does nothing but make
| life worse for other people.
| joules77 wrote:
| Got to go beyond shared values/experiences/perspective.
|
| The deeper commonality lies in the messy hardware we all share
| - the human mind.
|
| If you take a Philosophy or Psychology class, it usually starts
| by showing how incoherent and conflict-ridden the mind is.
|
| From Plato's tripartite soul (reason vs. appetite vs. spirit),
| to Hume's (reason is just a slave to our passions), to Freud's
| (id vs ego vs superego), to Kahneman (System 1 vs. System 2)
| there's a constant theme running - the mind is not unified.
|
| It's a battlefield of impulses, instincts, ideals, and
| rationalizations.
|
| And because we all live inside this strange ridiculous machine,
| one that can easily go off balance, we're all vulnerable in the
| same essential way.
|
| We all know what it's like to be overwhelmed, to act
| irrationally, to feel pulled in opposite directions. That's the
| real basis for connection: shared fragility, not shared
| ideology.
|
| That's why systems(and relationships) that are grounded in
| patience, forgiveness, empathy, compassion etc survive the long
| term.
|
| They don't depend on sameness, they depend on the recognition
| that everyone is doing battle with themselves. When that
| realization dawns it get easier to speak to the other person
| showing you understand this fact. And then we get the
| possibility of connection even across radical differences.
| taneq wrote:
| Maybe you don't need to connect with everyone? If someone has a
| few different opinions to me, that's fine, I'm sure there's
| plenty of other things we agree on. Maybe we can find common
| ground and connect over that. If someone has fundamentally
| incompatible values to mine about things that I consider
| important, then I probably consider them a bad person. Like, I
| don't know how else to define "bad person". Definitely not
| someone I want to connect with.
| hshshshshsh wrote:
| > A good place to start was to figure out what makes me happy.
| So, I wrote down the best experiences of my life so far. I came
| up with 20. 19 of them were experiences where I connected with
| people.
|
| You are assuming you know what best experience you can experience
| by looking at the past. But this is not necessarily correct.
| Don't assume you know the answer. Try new things. Some of the
| best experiences come from within. Boy you would be surprised:)
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| To connect two USB-C cables together, you'll need a USB-C
| coupler, also known as an adapter or extender. This allows you to
| plug one USB-C cable into each end of the coupler, effectively
| joining them to create a longer cable.
| JLemay wrote:
| Empathy plays a crucial role in strengthening human connections,
| which unfortunately I believe has been eroded strongly by social
| media and a rise in individualism. The combination of anonymity,
| and the modern day psychological wiring towards instant
| gratification, makes online cruelty largely rewarding
| unfortunately.
| wanderingstan wrote:
| > People hate small talk because it avoids [vulnerability]. The
| purpose of social conversation is to connect but talking about
| the weather or the latest sportz ball result reveals sh!t.
|
| I'm a defender of small talk. It's the MVP of connection; you are
| at least talking to another person, mutual acknowledgement. It's
| where relationships begin. It's where you and the other can
| safely feel out the space of shared values and what's top of
| mind: sports? Work? Family?
|
| Oversharing is perhaps defined as sharing too much too soon, when
| you should still be doing small talk.
|
| Sometimes people say they hate small talk but complain of the
| difficulty of making friends. Start by learning how to have light
| conversations. Keep talking. Depth comes naturally with time.
| satisfice wrote:
| "People" don't hate small talk. SOME people hate small talk. But
| small talk is a gateway to connection. It is not to be avoided,
| but to be embraced-- if connection is what you want.
|
| And the people the writer speaks of don't "hate" small talk,
| mostly. They are uncomfortable with it. This is not the same as
| hate.
|
| I suspect some of the people who are uncomfortable with small
| talk are that way because they don't want to delay talking about
| big things. Others are uncomfortable because they don't WANT it
| to lead to big things. Others think it IS a big thing and are
| afraid to do it wrong. And finally others falsely believe that
| small talk means telling lies.
|
| I like to talk about big things, but I don't mind starting with
| little things.
| Notatheist wrote:
| If you want to explore connecting with people I can highly
| recommend social dancing.
|
| >People hate small talk because it avoids this
|
| I don't believe that. You can connect with someone before you've
| exchanged names, and you can fail to connect with someone you've
| shared your life's story with. This is the same mistake autists
| at my dance school make (including myself). They believe
| connection demands a rational exchange of valuable information.
| In dance that would be the technical complexity of whatever
| you're leading and the grace and mastery you lead it with. In
| language it would be sharing hopes and fears.
|
| Small talk robs you of all that. It's a true measure of someone's
| ability to connect.
| em-bee wrote:
| _I can highly recommend social dancing_
|
| as an introvert who is uncomfortable to expose themselves to
| much i prefer more formal dancing, that is, where the rules of
| how to move are predefined and you are all learning those exact
| moves without having to be creative in any form. (once you
| learned a couple of traditional dance moves you can take them
| to somewhere where more creativity is asked for)
| cloverich wrote:
| What i want to know more about is "clicking" with people. I
| traversed social isolation and anxiety in my youth to get pretty
| decent at small talk and for a while that was all there was it
| seemed. Then as the environments changed i found i was able to
| more fully connect and establish friendships with people.
|
| But whats always stood out to me is the people I ended up
| persisting with, how quickly that small talk phase passed,
| sometimes it seems like within the first encounter. My most
| recent developing friendship i distinctly remember it was within
| the first few words, both my wife and I just knew oh this person
| fits. I always expect and still believe getting to know someone
| better can lead to shared understandings, better conversations,
| friendships. But at the same time, my anectdotal experience has
| been the people that worked out and persisted, it was obvious
| within five minutes or less (ie that initial gut feeling never
| changed).
|
| I guess the social cues or mannerisms or something like that
| which is perhaps hard to consciously describe but to an expert
| would be likely obvious, that perhaps reveals far more about you
| than your words can impart. Im sure its not that complicated but
| also think if you are forcing the small talk and really
| struggling to connect, dont be afraid to branch out and look for
| those clicks.
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