[HN Gopher] Unsafe and Unpredictable: My Volvo EX90 Experience
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Unsafe and Unpredictable: My Volvo EX90 Experience
Author : prova_modena
Score : 258 points
Date : 2025-07-22 20:06 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.myvolvoex90.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.myvolvoex90.com)
| owenthejumper wrote:
| I mean, the issues with this car are pretty well documented, so
| it feels like this person is really using the website (and the HN
| exposure, successfully), to extract the refund from Volvo that
| they need want. Likely rightfully so, since the ex90 subreddit is
| full of people invoking lemon law successfully.
| stblack wrote:
| Here's the url for that subreddit:
| https://old.reddit.com/r/VolvoEX90/
|
| Edit: OMG!
| owenthejumper wrote:
| It feels like Volvo is stuck in a sort of a cargo cult like
| situation. Modern car has to be software defined, so let's
| define the car by software. Except one of the reddit posts
| claims Volvo outsourced the development to Infosys. With
| predictable results...
| bestouff wrote:
| I don't know. Apparently he's using a law firm to receive its
| refund. The HN exposure seems to be there just to ... expose
| the facts to the public. Looks more like a sort of
| revenge/public safety announcement to me (saying "don't buy
| Volvo").
| wmeredith wrote:
| Yikes. Hitting them where it hurts. Safe and predictable is
| Volvo's brand.
| moneycantbuy wrote:
| I really want to like volvo, especially their plugin hybrids, but
| their bad reliability of late is a dealbreaker. No way I'm
| wasting my life in mechanic hell.
|
| I'm patiently looking to upgrade from my great 2018 subaru
| forester xt touring, but nothing new seems much better.
| 650REDHAIR wrote:
| Volvo hasn't been a reliable brand since ~2000 when it was sold
| to Ford. Even less reliable when it was sold to Geely.
|
| They've essentially skated by on brand recognition earned
| decades ago.
| ssalka wrote:
| FWIW I've had a 2006 S40 for the past 10 years and found it
| very reliable. But can't speak for their models since then
| muro wrote:
| Had a 2006 or so XC90, everything was great. Now driving a
| 2016 XC90, had one issue with the engine cooling, was
| repaired in a day, 0 issues otherwise.
| cpursley wrote:
| Engine cooling issue is a major flaw. Sold my Toyota with
| 300k miles on it - never a single mechanical issue other
| than regular wear and tear.
| Marsymars wrote:
| How do you distinguish what's "regular wear and tear"?
|
| Genuinely curious, I recently sold my 14 year-old Ford
| Fiesta, and could arguably say the same thing, but I
| could imagine some people disagreeing.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Regular wear and tear to me is any maintenance/parts
| replacement of items on the maintenance schedule. If your
| engine or transmission blows up and needs rebuilding,
| that is not wear and tear.
|
| Things like replacing the starter, alternator, timing
| belt, struts, springs, brake pads and discs, tires,
| wipers, air filters, exhaust piping (in salted road
| areas) I would consider to be 'wear and tear'.
| speed_spread wrote:
| Volvo S40 are rebranded Mitsubishi Carisma.
| jerlam wrote:
| I had one of the first newly redesigned Volvos after the Ford
| acquisition, an S80 T6, either the first or second year
| released in the US. It was a fantastic car - extremely
| comfortable, fast, and analog controls for everything.
|
| After five or six years it spent more time being repaired
| than not, and I sold it. It was one of the few times where
| having an extended warranty paid off. Haven't really
| considered a Volvo since.
| internet2000 wrote:
| That's a Chinese car maker for you.
| nosequel wrote:
| I was so excited to get my S60 PHEV. Mechanically it is an
| amazing machine, great handling, great power, I rarely have to
| put gas in it. BUT. It is a nightmare with the technology.
|
| Like most new cars, everything is tied into the center
| display/computer. It will crash while driving, which will
| remove all sound from your car, and I don't mean just the
| radio/spotify/whatever. You can be in mid-turn with your turn
| signal on and then just absolute quiet. It is so off-putting.
| Your blinker stops, you can't really tell your engine is on,
| and every screen just goes black. Thankfully I don't have a
| pure electric, so I my car still physically moves, but I really
| can't believe I haven't gotten in an accident when my screen
| crashes.
|
| Thankfully I leased this vehicle, and I'm almost done with it,
| I honestly can't wait to turn it in.
| mysterydip wrote:
| Yeah, had my XC90's center console crash/reboot in the middle
| of a highway drive, very disorienting and unnerving.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| I would hope that the center control computer is isolated
| from the actual drive computer in all these cars.
| drewg123 wrote:
| Pure electrics also work when the screen crashes. My Tesla
| behaves almost exactly as you describe. When the screen
| crashes / reboots, you loose all displays, all sound,
| signals, etc. But the car still drives.
| m_fayer wrote:
| I have a rock-solid but aging Kia niro phev and I love it.
|
| I'm thinking of turning it in for an updated model, but the
| updated model has displays instead of actual gauges and
| indicator lights like the older niro, and that just makes my
| skin crawl. It should be damn near impossible for the gauges
| and indicators to blink out of existence, and reassurance
| about nothing-but-screens has not been forthcoming.
| jjkmk wrote:
| Sorry you have to deal with this, what a nightmare, hopefully
| you're able to get your money back.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| Geely has been terrible for Volvo. Geely took a quality brand and
| removed the quality.
| brookst wrote:
| Ford did most of the heavy lifting, but Geely finished the job.
| efitz wrote:
| Doesn't Canada have a lemon law? Most US states have a law that
| says if you have to bring a new car in 3 times for the same issue
| in the first X months of ownership, that they have to accept a
| return and refund you, or give you a new one.
| qualeed wrote:
| No, Quebec does but other provinces just rely on standard
| consumer protection laws. At least the last time I looked into
| it.
|
| I think some provinces have some additional vehicle-specific
| laws, but no comprehensive "lemon law" as such.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| This person is in Quebec (or seems to be - highway 13 is in
| Montreal and the car was bought in the city of Mount Royal
| which is a suburb of Montreal (city status nitpicks
| notwithstanding, it's unequivocally in Quebec). )
| qualeed wrote:
| Good catch, I didn't put 2 and 2 together. I'm not positive
| what the eligibility requirements are to invoke it. Perhaps
| that's what they retained the lawyer for.
| ethan_smith wrote:
| Canada doesn't have specific "lemon laws" like the US -
| instead, consumers must rely on provincial consumer protection
| acts, manufacturer warranties, or the Canadian Motor Vehicle
| Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP) for resolving persistent vehicle
| defects.
| eckelhesten wrote:
| Volvo sadly no longer stands for Swedish quality and safety.
|
| What you're buying is essentially an overpriced Chinese car with
| Volvo stickers.
|
| And I'm saying this as a Swede. Buy German cars, specifically
| within the Volkswagen auto group (Audi, VW, Skoda etc) if you
| want reliable quality.
| bestouff wrote:
| I want to buy European but Bosh is so disappointing. They lock
| everything so you can't change anything on your EV by yourself.
| I hate that.
| fuzzy2 wrote:
| Reliable (consistent) quality, yes. _Quality_? Debatable. But
| it definitely keeps driving, no dangerous situations so far.
| Xenoamorphous wrote:
| Aren't Japanese cars the gold standard of reliability? Or has
| something changed?
| jorvi wrote:
| To be honest, it has never been about pure brand. Every brand
| has had clunkers and has had great models.
|
| Having said that, Toyota is known for their reliability, and
| Volvo (+ Polestar) was / are known for their safety.
|
| Just to emphasize the point: Nissan is doomed because
| generally no one wants their cars, but they have perhaps one
| of the greatest bang-for-buck EVs outside of Chinese brands:
| the Leaf 2.
| api wrote:
| I have a 2022 model Leaf, the one with 230 miles range, and
| it's... boring in a good way. It just works. Zero problems
| whatsoever and zero noticeable battery degradation after
| about 27K miles. Only big downside is poor rapid charging,
| but we use ours as a city car and rarely if ever need it.
|
| Put a CCS fast charge port and better battery cooling in
| this thing and it'd be the perfect boring reliable EV with
| physical dash controls (no touch screen BS).
| silverquiet wrote:
| My girlfriend has the same car and I had about the same
| feeling in it - it's just a cheap Nissan that happens to
| be electric (and I mean that in a good way). As you said,
| quite good as a city car, and we even did a short road
| trip in it, but the lack of chargers for it does produce
| some range anxiety.
| cptskippy wrote:
| That's been my experience with a 2015 Leaf. It's ugly and
| the range is trash, and that it. It's a dolled up golf
| cart but in a good way.
| esseph wrote:
| I want my tools to be boring, do something and do it
| well, and with minimum fuss.
| coderenegade wrote:
| Nissan makes fantastic cars that develop a following, and
| then proceeds to change everything about the car that
| created a following in the first place. Mitsubishi seem to
| be learning this skill from them. Toyota still sells cars
| that have a direct lineage to the original model 40 years
| ago, and charges a fortune for them.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| If they make such good cars, why are they writing so many
| subprime loans? In my opinion, they wouldn't have to
| target subprime borrowers if they offered a good car.
|
| I'd rather spend $2-3k more for a Toyota and get
| something reliable, a RAV4 is $2k more than a Rogue.
| NewJazz wrote:
| Leaf doesn't have active cooling nor CCS... That's a big
| reason they have to price it like that. I'd rather take a
| Toyota busy forks in the current market. Chevy Equinox is
| pretty good bang for buck too.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| I don't know about the others, but Toyota has had some issues
| recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klyb2VrACZc&t=47s
| quink wrote:
| New cars... but a 22 year old used Toyota, like mine, seems
| perfectly fine.
|
| Sure, it'll kill me because of the comparative lack of
| safety, but that seems like a minor sacrifice in the face
| of needing to deal with a new car.
|
| It also doesn't have pillars the thickness of an elephant's
| legs, like all new cars, significantly less compromising to
| visibility all around. It also lacks the now ubiquitous
| square and raised bonnet.
| caconym_ wrote:
| Not only that, they also have a fairly conservative approach
| to design that seems to keep a lot of the stupid bullshit out
| of their cars. I own multiple late model Japanese cars from
| different manufacturers and have had zero issues with them.
| The ADAS systems they do have, while arguably basic by 2025
| standards, function flawlessly. All essential controls
| (including climate control) are physical.
| everybodyknows wrote:
| Was told by a mechanic a few months back that continuously-
| variable transmissions are standard in gas cars now, but have
| reliability problems. Old-tech automatics can (could?) still
| be had from Toyota and Mazda.
| nothercastle wrote:
| Nah only Subaru and nisssan. 10 speed automatics are most
| common.
| Marsymars wrote:
| Most Japanese manufacturers are moving pretty heavily to
| CVTs. (And Americans have a smattering of them across
| their lines.)
| Marsymars wrote:
| Note that the eCVT that Toyota/Ford (and soon Mazda) use in
| their hybrids is mechanically entirely different from
| classic CVTs.
| vel0city wrote:
| Note that not all Ford hybrids are eCVTs. Hybrid
| Explorers don't have eCVTs, for example.
|
| But Mavericks and some of their newer hybrids are eCVTs.
| elabajaba wrote:
| E-CVTs are extremely reliable and are different from CVTs
| (CVTs use a belt attached to 2 cones, E-CVTs are just a
| single planetary gear set), but a lot of car guys and even
| some mechanics don't realize they're completely different.
| blueflow wrote:
| > .... if you want reliable quality.
|
| I'm saying this as a German, i strongly reject those
| accusations. Do not buy from VW group (and not from
| PSA/Stellantis (Citroen, Fiat, Opel etc brands), either).
| nicce wrote:
| What reliable is left?
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Toyota
| tannhaeuser wrote:
| If you buy a Toyota ProAce van you get a Peugeot Expert
| aka Citroen Jumpy/Traveller aka the respective Fiat and
| Opel (and Vauxhall?) branded vehicles. It's a Volkswagen
| Transporter-sized van, not an Eurovan/minivan that still
| might be sold in EU only though.
| earthnail wrote:
| BMW
| rectang wrote:
| Don't say "reliable", say "opportunity for
| enshittification".
| DyslexicAtheist wrote:
| if it has software it will be enshitted. sadly true
| rectang wrote:
| I was a bit surprised to see the the "software" criteria
| in your reply, as I'd always thought of
| enshittification's inevitability as a capitalist
| phenomenon whereby a quality brand is wrung out for near
| term gains by management incentivized to get their cut
| before riding off into the sunset.
|
| But after reading up a bit, I've found that software
| platform lock-in was important in enshittification's
| original formulation -- it's not just that quality goes
| to crap, but that users have nowhere else to go.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Thank you for that second paragraph. Really hate people
| throwing that word around without understanding what it
| actually means. Was about to get inflamed.
|
| Makes you wonder how open software car platform could
| look like and why nobody is making one.
| runako wrote:
| Toyota, Lexus, Subaru, Honda.
|
| Not sure if Hyundai & Kia are quite as reliable, but if not
| it's on them because they have some of the best warranties
| in the industry.
| SecretDreams wrote:
| The two main Achilles Heels of Hyundai/Kia are their ICE
| Engines and their EV ICCUs. Google reliability for both
| and proceed accordingly. They're good about
| replacing/fixing both issues when they come up, and
| normally have extended warranties, but they are critical
| components too and long lead times to fix.
|
| Outside of those issues, which don't happen on all
| vehicles, I view the brand as pretty rock solid. I'm
| impressed by how quickly they iterate, their styling, and
| their NVH attributes. Their pricing has crept up a bit,
| but still not terrible.
| bityard wrote:
| I recently got rid of a 2016 Kia Sonata with a severe
| (and getting worse) oil burning issue. It was well under
| 100k miles. We really liked the car otherwise overall.
| Great price, seemed to be made well, easy to work on. The
| extended warranty on these only applies if you actually
| blow up engine, which I wasn't willing to do deliberately
| because I have scruples.
|
| (And according to forum threads, at the time this
| happened to this us, stealerships were putting people on
| a 1-2 year waitlist for remanufactured engines, or
| straight-up totalling their vehicles and giving them
| "market value" for the car, and these models had awful
| resale value exactly due to these problems.)
| auxym wrote:
| Do you mean Hyundai Sonata, or another Kia model?
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Honorable mention - Hyundai Kona EV managed to build a
| reduction gear that blows around 100k km - just after
| warranty ends and they specifically recommend not
| changing the gear oil.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| For a long time Consumer Reports has ranked cars as
| Japanese > American >> European, European cars have some
| luxury cachet but if you want a car that starts when you
| turn the key look elsewhere. American cars came a long
| way since the 1970s when they really were trash.
| Marsymars wrote:
| Consumer Reports currently has Audi and BMW ahead of any
| American manufacturer.
|
| Brand average reliability is tricky though, on their
| 100-point scale, their top manufacturer (Subaru) has
| models that range from 38-98.
|
| Looking at the model breakdown... I kinda suspect they
| don't really have enough datapoints - VW's reliability
| only includes 3 models (the Tiguan, ID.4 and TAOS) - Ford
| has a 25-point difference between the Escape and Maverick
| hybrids that share the same engine/powertrain (I can't
| think of any reason why the Maverick would actually be
| notably more reliable than the Escape unless the PHEV
| escape is dragging down weighted reliability by that much
| over the mild hybrid), etc.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| "European" cars are not really a category.
| French/Italian/Spanish cars are very different from
| German/Volvo, and even these groupings are a stretch.
| Then you have Dacia too, and I have no idea where to even
| put it. Plus you have some luxury British cars, which are
| again veery different.
|
| In-group std is greater than between-group std.
| Malakun wrote:
| > Spanish cars are very different from German
|
| The only spanish car maker is SEAT and it's part of VAG
| group. SEAT are more expensive than Skoda, but cheaper
| than Audi.
|
| And using the country card with these automaker
| corporations is very tricky, because they have factories
| everywhere. You can buy an Audi made in Spain or a VW
| made in Slovakia.
| burnerthrow008 wrote:
| In the USA (where Consumer Reports exists), we don't have
| any French or Spanish brands. Italian brands are only
| exotics and couple near-luxury brands from Stellantis.
|
| To a USAian, "European Brand" means something from
| Germany or Scandinavia. If you mean a Ferrari or
| Lamborghini, you say that name.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| There's Fiat, an Italian brand that I think of as
| terribly downmarket. I think it's part of Stellantis and
| I think if you Stellantis coming you're supposed to run,
| not walk away -- I guess Chrysler is still part of that,
| but Chrysler is also far worse than Ford and GM.
|
| As for Ferrari and Lamborghini it doesn't matter what
| _Consumer Reports_ thinks.
| moogly wrote:
| Pretty good case for why Consumer Reports is not very
| useful anymore https://youtu.be/WicesuUvTXo
| haunter wrote:
| Acura too (Honda's premium brand)
| hedora wrote:
| Our Kia is a deathtrap due to bad active safety assist
| software.
|
| It's also miserable to drive because of beeping, controls
| that cannot be seen by the driver, and a dozen other
| obvious problems.
|
| Supposedly Hyundai fixes such stuff before release, but I
| wouldn't risk it.
| prmph wrote:
| Mazdas too. I find Toyota's suspensions and driving
| dynamics terrible. Mazda represents a perfect combination
| of good Japanese reliability and good handling dynamics.
| I also like that they still offer a proper automatic
| transmission in their cars (as opposed to the CVT
| epidemic in other makes), as well as naturally aspirated
| engine options (whereas many other makes only offer
| turbos now).
|
| The days of their collaboration with Ford are long gone,
| and with it their body durability problems. They still
| collaborate with Toyota though.
| bityard wrote:
| Maybe they are better now, but I had two Mazdas between
| about 2005 and 2015. They were fine for the most part,
| but their frames rusted out and had to be scrapped well
| before the rest of the car was worn out. They're not
| really suitable for long-term use in the
| midwestern/northeast US salt belt unless you're a high-
| roller who only leases cars.
| prmph wrote:
| That's what I meant, those problems have been solved in
| recent years. Their partnership with Ford ended by 2015
| at the latest
| butlike wrote:
| Yessss. Happy to hear this. A Miata has been on the
| wishlist for a while now.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| The Corolla I was driving recently can definitely _not_
| be recommended. It was a rental.
|
| Was a Hybrid, though that shouldn't affect this. It
| wouldn't save most of the settings I changed. Apparently
| you can either save it "to the key" (I googled how to do
| it, didn't work) or to your "profile" with a mobile app.
| I would never want to have to use my mobile to save car
| settings, even if I owned it, let alone a rental.
|
| It has a feature that scans road signs and displays them
| on the dash. Awesome feature, which I've had in other
| cars before. Just in case you missed one and usually more
| accurate than Google maps for dynamic situations like
| construction zones. Unfortunately it loudly beeps and
| blinks at you if you happen to go over the limit or god
| forbid set the cruise control above the limit. This can
| be disabled individually but is part of the settings that
| don't save across car shutdowns.
|
| Why is that an issue? Because setting the cruise control
| to 50 when in a 50km/h zone will have you driving 45 in
| reality as evidenced by speed measuring displays I drove
| by. At 100km/h you'll probably be going 90. I learned the
| 6 key presses on the steering wheel to disable this after
| starting the car real fast. Unfortunately it disables the
| entire feature (else it'd be a lot more key presses and I
| ain't doing that). If this wasn't a rental but a purchase
| I'd be in this guys boat and trying to return the car.
|
| This is just one example. The other more dire one is the
| cruise control. I've mentioned it elsewhere before and
| this Corolla isn't the only one, but the automatic
| breaking in these cars nowadays is dangerous. The amount
| of time I was sitting in the car with my foot right above
| the accelerator in case I need to power through an
| automatic breaking situation was unreal.
|
| So glad to have been back home after vacation, driving my
| Subaru (with an adaptive cruise control that does _not_
| have this issue).
| formerly_proven wrote:
| It's weird that Toyota cars are taking top spots in car
| breakdown statistics the last couple years. Hyundai & Kia
| have their EVs breakdown left and right with their ICCU
| failures, and spare parts seem to be in rather short
| supply (and a replaced ICCU can fail again). And their
| battery warranty is only 5 years / 100 km.
| 7ganam wrote:
| I've owned my Hyundai Tucson for 5 years, and it hasn't
| had a single issue
| 01100011 wrote:
| Not so sure about Subaru. I love my Outback but it is
| also the only car I've ever owned which left me stranded
| twice due to two separate firmware issues. Both issues
| were known and Subaru failed to communicate them to me.
|
| I will probably go with Toyota for our next car despite
| loving the handling and comfort of our Subaru.
| oxag3n wrote:
| Was loyal Honda owner since my 1st one in 00s, my current
| two will be the last I own. Purchased brand new, multiple
| issues with body/chassis & HVAC in Pilot, electrical
| systems/motors in Oddy. The dealership tried to fix
| things and did it unprofessionally.
| DyslexicAtheist wrote:
| idk but in addition to what was listed already stay away
| from: Land Rover, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Fiat ... all of
| them leave you stranded in the middle of the road
| haunter wrote:
| Anything from Stellantis is a big no
|
| https://www.stellantis.com/en/brands
| pesus wrote:
| I'd add Mazda in there (post Ford involvement).
| slaw wrote:
| > What reliable is left?
|
| Vehicles with 7 or more years of warranty. If a brand has a
| hype, but short warranty like Toyota, it is only a hype.
| decimalenough wrote:
| Believe it or not, both the software and hardware on
| Chinese-made Teslas is rock solid. (With the notable and
| massive exception of Autopilot/FSD, but this is an optional
| feature.) The Model 3 has been ranked the most reliable EV
| in Australia:
|
| https://www.shopforcars.com.au/news/most-reliable-
| electric-c...
|
| However, this is _not_ the case for Teslas manufactured in
| the US, which is why Tesla 's global reliability ratings
| are mediocre at best.
| burnerthrow008 wrote:
| It should be noted that "autopilot" is the included
| driver assist feature and "FSD" is the optional extra
| cost feature.
| theyinwhy wrote:
| Mercedes
| theyinwhy wrote:
| To those downvoting my perfectly succinct answer to the
| question, I urge you to drive one of the newer Mercedes
| EVs. After my Tesla nightmare I moved on to Mercedes and
| it was night and day.
| denysvitali wrote:
| > Buy German cars
|
| Take this with a grain of salt (since it's not first hand
| experience), but I have heard from friends that the quality of
| German cars has degraded significantly
| cpursley wrote:
| From their already dismal reliability and insane maintenance
| costs?
| daedrdev wrote:
| Not even, BYD and other Chinese car companies make great,
| reliable cars. This is simply Volvo intentionally and likely
| knowingly cheating out as much as possible to make a quick
| buck, burning their brand in the process
| thesz wrote:
| > great, reliable cars
|
| There was fuel tank burst open in cold weather overnight
| incident, sudden fires and explosions of (presumable hybrid)
| Chinese cars, etc. Chinese cars are not on market for time
| enough to even consider their reliability. Let's wait for ten
| years, at the very least.
|
| The quality of ride of Chinese cars is not even close to
| their European counterparts, children get sick even on the
| front row in ten minutes in a car that costs next to $60K.
| Their suspension is such that they do not compensate for
| sudden roll when one side of car hits a bump or hole.
|
| Rolls Royce made their Phantoms to have adjustable clearance
| so that Chinese buyers would not suffer from bad roads of
| China, yet all of the buyers of Chinese cars have to suffer
| from roads that are not ideally paved.
| maxglute wrote:
| > quality of ride
|
| Is this year 2000? Chinese cars are overwhelmingly tuned
| for much softer ride experience at expense of feeling
| performance / sporty. Especially 50k+ tier from last few
| years, most perform better than Euro cars in terms of
| noise, vibration harshness. You generally have to scrape to
| bottom barrel entry level 10-15k PRC cars to get bad ride
| experiences now. Chinese roads also great now, down to
| rural.
|
| Quality's caught up since 2020s. Sure you can wait 10
| years, but there's industry indicators like problems per
| 100 vehicles (PP100) where PRC EVs are fine / better than
| foreign bands (built in PRC factories. At least
| mechanically (power trains, batteries, chassis). Most PRC
| weakeness comes from stuff like infotainment, drive assist
| last few years because they've been iterating software a
| little too fast. There's also proprietary fleet data on EV
| taxis / rideshare that's been driven to death, and those
| hold up fine too.
|
| Rolls Royce tuned their PRC cars to be EXTRA PLUSH, because
| PRC buyers prefers extra cloudy rides vs Euro buyers that
| prefers firmer / responsive, NA softer than EU, MENA
| somewhere between EU/NA.
| breadwinner wrote:
| I rented an Audi Q7 for a week recently. The drive quality of
| the car is excellent. But the software is terrible. Just
| getting CarPlay to work every time is a challenge. I will not
| be buying an Audi any time soon.
|
| As more and more of the vehicle's experience becomes software
| controlled, manufacturers who don't have good software
| development teams are going to lose out. German companies don't
| seem to understand the growing importance of software, and they
| are happy to collectively develop the software [1] as opposed
| to seeing software as a key differentiator.
|
| [1] https://www.electrive.com/2025/06/25/automotive-industry-
| lau...
| AlexandrB wrote:
| Software is indeed a differentiator, as in I want as little
| as possible of that shit in my car. Any car where all the
| controls are on a giant iPad in the middle are a non-starter
| for me.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Physical goods companies just don't get software, and they
| never seem to be able to do it right. They treat firmware
| and software like just another line item on the BOM. Like a
| screw or a silicon gasket: Source it from a cheap supplier,
| spoon it into the product somewhere on the assembly line,
| and then never touch it again. As long as it meets a list
| of checkbox requirements, the quality doesn't matter at
| all. A car company that obsesses over how nicely the
| exterior panels fit together will, on the other hand, not
| even care whether icons and text are aligned on their
| software.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| The VW Group is putting billions into their partnership with
| Rivian specifically to improve the software experience (and
| enabling hardware). It may be the only thing that keeps
| Rivian alive until (if) the R2 successfully launches to the
| mass market.
| cpursley wrote:
| Or just buy a Zeekr (if you want a non-Elon EV) - a much more
| technically impressive and better looking car than the Volvo or
| Tesla and it was designed in Europe:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnZ0mTCBng
| meepmorp wrote:
| Interestingly, Zeeker is owned by the same Chinese parent
| company as Volvo, Geely auto.
| cpursley wrote:
| Yeah, might as well get the real thing. That model has
| great reviews. Wish it were available in the US.
| butlike wrote:
| That touch screen-only with the different modes of activation
| is my nightmare and literally giving me anxiety watching that
| showcase if that's to be the future of auto driving.
| kazinator wrote:
| No longer, as of when?
|
| I had a 1987 Volvo 760 in the nineties.
|
| It was an unmitigated piece of shit.
| DyslexicAtheist wrote:
| > Volvo sadly no longer stands for Swedish quality and safety.
|
| which Swedish or EU companies do?
|
| not a trick question - I'm genuinely baffled by systematic QA
| neglect in most EU based companies (which are still better than
| much US companies) .
| vinni2 wrote:
| Isn't it Chinese owned now?
| jonplackett wrote:
| I'm already boycotting VW for emissions-fraud, Tesla for Nazi-
| salutes... gonna run out of car brands at this rate
| tcshit wrote:
| i agree on that emission-fraud. but, haha, you know there are
| loads of videos of your favorite blue colored ones doing the
| same salute? if that is what keeps you spinning you ran out
| of car brands long time ago...
| jay_kyburz wrote:
| Did we forget about the emissions cheating already? Volkswagen
| is on my blacklist.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Yikes. Know any recent successful EVs from them?
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| If I was buying new, I'd look for a Japanese car (Toyota,
| Honda, Subaru). The old volvo 240s are still around though.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| I hope this site outlasts Volvo, and that this sign outlasts BoA
|
| https://i.imgur.com/sxPpQIV_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=gra...
| amoorthy wrote:
| Insane that Volvo doesn't just replace the car. The cost is
| trivial compared to the brand damage here. The complaint is so
| well documented and the customer is not being a jerk at all; not
| sure what Volvo's logic is.
| nicce wrote:
| They would need to replace all faulty cars after that. They
| want to avoid that.
| thefourthchime wrote:
| I'm guessing that's every car.
| nicce wrote:
| Exactly...
| etskinner wrote:
| They'll probably agree on a settlement where they don't admit
| any wrongdoing and give him a decent payout, but require him
| to take down the site and sign an NDA or something. So they
| don't necessarily need to replace all of them after that
|
| If all he wants is a refund, that should do it. But if he's
| more interested in warning the world, hopefully he sticks to
| his guns and makes them give a straight up refund
| amoorthy wrote:
| Ah you might be right. But:
|
| 1. If they really have so many faulty cars on the road that's
| a serious hazard and any accidents where people die may end
| up destroying Volvo entirely because of negligence.
|
| 2. An economically reasonable answer might be refund the guy
| making the complaint and ofter all other owners $10k credit
| towards your next Volvo purchase or free 3 years of
| maintenance and service. Something like this might be enough
| to stem the bleeding while protecting the brand.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| never buy a first or second year car, simple as, especially not a
| 'luxury' cutting edge brand.
| bobmcnamara wrote:
| $150kCAD for a discount Chinese car?
| rwmj wrote:
| But with an old, formerly quality badge attached!
| tnolet wrote:
| This is painful. Anecdotal point: I have an 2024 EX40 and it's
| been perfect.
| internet2000 wrote:
| For now.
| Guillaume86 wrote:
| Same experience here with a 2024 EX40, happy I did some
| research before buying (EX30 was looking nice at first). The
| EX40 is just another iteration of a mature platform, while
| the EX30/90 are new and still full of bugs apparently... It
| shows in the central console that looks dated but at least it
| works and I still have buttons for basic functionnality.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| This is the most beautiful complaint I've ever seen!
| IshKebab wrote:
| I wish he knew how quotation worked though... that was
| confusing to read.
| neogodless wrote:
| As a Polestar 2 (closely related to Volvo; they share a lot of
| components and infotainment software... bugs) owner, none of this
| surprises me.
|
| I've had the "Complete Center Screen Malfunction" issue on my
| Polestar 2 (though an infotainment reboot "fixed" it.
|
| But climate controls disappearing _and climate shutting off_
| during infotainment reboots is already pretty atrocious.
|
| I have the "backup camera unavailable" issue, and despite
| multiple recalls and attempts to fix in software... the issue
| persists.
|
| There are other issues, but none as bad as he's seen with his
| EX90!
| nicce wrote:
| > climate shutting off
|
| In general, climate shutting off is safety issue too. In -40C
| it is not many minutes until you can't see through windows.
| vultour wrote:
| These problems plague so many new cars it's incredible. I know
| people who don't want to buy a new Mercedes S-class, but are
| instead looking for low-mileage units of the previous
| generation because it has the same issues. I don't know what
| the fuck is going on with cars these last few years but the
| manufacturers need to wake up.
| eeks wrote:
| I have the exact same experience with an EX30. Their entire line
| of full EVs is a disaster. I will never buy a Volvo again.
| joezydeco wrote:
| I own an XC40 BEV (now renamed EX40) and it's a much better
| car. The SPA platform was pretty mature by that point.
|
| I sat in an EX90 demonstrator a year ago at the dealer and was
| told not to touch anything inside the cabin. The car wasn't
| ready back then and, from reading owners forums now, it's still
| not fully baked.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| The Polestar 2/EX40 probably have the most mature software of
| that lineup. Not without issues (and certainly underpowered
| pre-'24), but relatively stable by comparison.
|
| I don't understand the logic of having each Polestar model
| running a unique software stack rather than progressively
| improving one system across all models - but must be a
| downstream impact of the fractured Geely badges.
| throw7 wrote:
| I'm sorry, but if a car I ordered took over a year to be
| delivered and they couldn't even get the configuration correct
| I'd just say no.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| Nice AI-generated site.
| speed_spread wrote:
| Still better than moron-generated car firmware.
| mrcwinn wrote:
| Similar experience with Polestar 3. Really great sales and client
| advisors, but truly an awful experience with the car. I demanded
| an early lease return and they accepted.
| afloatboat wrote:
| Sad to hear that about the PS3, seeing how long it took them to
| go to market.
|
| Been driving a Polestar 2 for nearly 4 years now and while it's
| not a disastrous experience it could be a lot better. Things
| have improved over the years, but still pretty disappointed.
|
| The infotainment system runs on a very outdated atom chip
| that's too slow for Android Automotive. Constant frame drops,
| crashes or stuff just generally not working.
|
| In a recent software update they disabled the cockpit view if
| you put it in reverse, just to save on resources.
|
| The whole Android Automotive thing is worthless. There are
| barely any apps and when they finally released YouTube after 2
| years it was just a buggy wrapper around the mobile web view.
| Most videos will just display a green screen due to lack of
| codec support, so I just pull out my phone now when I'm
| charging. But even the radio or Spotify fail to play half of
| the time.
|
| The 360 degree camera sometimes will just not work. I still
| have a tiny back window, unlike the Polestar 4, but the reverse
| lights are so tiny and dim that it's impossible to see anything
| when reversing at night.
|
| Digital Key works, but also have to regularly pull out my phone
| to trigger it or manually press the button in the app. If
| you're in a parking garage without internet you're simply not
| getting into the car. And that's without the random logouts.
|
| Lane assist works relatively well, if it weren't for the
| constant nagging to put your hands on the wheel even if you're
| lightly tugging it. I need to really jerk it a bit before it
| stops beeping at me, making it completely useless.
|
| Maintenance happens at the Volvo dealership where they made
| sure to make me feel like a second class citizen for not
| leasing a Volvo. They didn't read my reservation mentioning the
| broken rain sensor, ensuring I had to return a week later for
| them to replace it because they didn't have the part in stock.
|
| I was between a model 3 and this car initially. Mainly because
| of the software, and for that reason I still regret not going
| for the M3, but given the current situation I'm happier driving
| the PS2.
|
| Nearly 4 years in the chipset is still the same for the newer
| model.
| theyinwhy wrote:
| Oh believe me, model 3 is a piece of garbage. Mine started to
| creak after 20k miles. 2 months after repairs the car started
| to creak again. I am talking loud, embarassing creaks like
| old barn doors. Repair costs were so high my insurance
| company canceled. I will never ever own a Tesla again. Btw
| it's funny how people complain about auto pilot. At least you
| can disable auto pilot, making it the last problem to worry
| about with those trash cans.
| blindriver wrote:
| Does Canada not have Lemon laws that force the company to take
| back the car after a certain number of defects?
| qualeed wrote:
| Only Quebec has a specific "lemon law". Which this person
| appears to be in Quebec, so it may be applicable -- I'm not
| positive about the eligibility requirements to invoke it.
| asciii wrote:
| Volvo may not want to replace the car for the guy...but from a
| marketing standpoint, they truly picked the wrong hill.
|
| The site is very nice and pretty thorough.
|
| Makes me not want to get this car or any Volvo!
| dexzod wrote:
| Agree 100% the website is very well layed out. The information
| is presented in very readable format. After a single scroll I
| was able to fully understand the issues and conclude that the
| guy has a valid case. Too bad for Volvo for having a horrible
| customer support
| ls-a wrote:
| I was thinking about the site too. It looked like a perfect
| example for AI, then I found the lovable badge.
| chaosprint wrote:
| Lovable is really good at this kind of use case and
| experience. Ironically it's also Swedish philosophy based,
| no much hardcore tech(the heavy lifting is claude ) but
| focus on the experience. Similar to Volvo not promoting
| speed and handling but emphasize safety. But we know now
| that speed and handling in many ways show the tech of that
| vehicle and it reflects on safety to a large scale Imho
| cosmicgadget wrote:
| Not a huge fan of the fact that everything looks like a popup
| or LinkedIn widget.
| mark_mart wrote:
| I was genuinely thinking about buying a Volvo car today. This
| blog changed my mind now.
|
| It seem they are the exact opposite of what I thought.
| jonplackett wrote:
| I love that you made a website to spread the word. Well done.
| Screw those guys.
|
| Hey Volvo, I'll now never buy a Volvo. I always thought they
| were meant to be safe?
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| Old Volvo is different than new Volvo. They went downhill
| when and after ford bought them. Also the new cars lack the
| charm of the older 240s, they're sorta just regular luxury
| cars now.
|
| Only recently sold my 850 because we're expecting a kid and
| wanted to mount the car seat correctly.
| xyx0826 wrote:
| I applaud his efforts to document this what must've been a
| nightmare of a case for him. But it felt like a lot of the
| wording is speculative or hyperbolic in nature and aggressively
| tries to paint Volvo in a bad light. For example:
|
| "Analysis of Volvo's Final Response: This response ... confirms
| Volvo's complete abandonment of customer responsibility...This
| is Volvo's definition of 'customer care' in 2025."
|
| "Center Display Failure - Critical Interface Blackout: Main
| Controls Inaccessible"
|
| "Climate Control Malfunction - Climate System Override:
| Controls Unresponsive Despite Interface Status"
|
| "Complete Center Screen Malfunction - Total System Breakdown:
| Hard Reset Failed to Restore Screen"
|
| I know little about Volvo or this case; I'm choosing to offer
| them some benefits of doubt. Comms and decision making are
| prone to break down on the corporate ladder. Volvo had no doubt
| fumbled his case badly but I'm not convinced it is indicative
| of the company's overall customer support policy. Sure, the
| main touchscreen had failed. But how is this an "override" of
| HVAC or a "total system breakdown"? And what's the "system"
| anyways? On top of all that, these subtitle summaries smell
| like AI.
|
| I don't deny that Volvo has a lot to answer for. Though the
| choice of these instigating descriptions might not be the best
| one giving the author is actively pursuing litigation.
| belval wrote:
| Eh the author is coming from a place of emotion (considering
| the effort put into the website) so I would definitely cut
| them some slack on the fairness of their reporting. The owner
| is telling their story, not a journalist.
|
| > But how is this an "override" of HVAC or a "total system
| breakdown"?
|
| Complete failure of the throttle would fall within total
| system breakdown to me.
|
| > Comms and decision making are prone to break down on the
| corporate ladder.
|
| Businesses do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, they
| aren't human. If their support ladder broke down to this
| point that it is fair game to name and shame and up to them
| to do a PR push and fix their support.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| I agree it's not deadly critical, but if you can't pass state
| inspection with broken screen/engine light/broken stop light
| then case is clear.
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| I don't think I'd spend 150k for a car, I imagine it would
| create a certain sense of entitlement, but he does sound
| pretty annoying.
|
| It's just an order mess-up, but opening with stuff like:
| "Sent a formal complaint to Volvo Canada on January 16,
| requesting escalation to Managing Director Matt Girgis. Volvo
| Canada never confirmed this escalation." is a vibe.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| The open secret to EV ownership is to lease. This effectively
| mitigates depreciation and forces a dealership to own any
| problems (sooner rather than later).
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| The open secret to EV ownership is to buy after the lease. The
| depreciation is insane, why pay to rent the car for three years
| when you can buy it outright after the lease return for a
| fraction of the cost? EVs with active cooling systems last just
| about forever but people are still "oh no the battery".
|
| (Still driving my 2012 EV - not a typo - and got a can't-miss
| off-lease CPO deal on a "new" 2022 this year.)
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| High mileage EV's are really cheap right now. Buyers think
| they'll have to spend a fortune to replace the battery when
| in reality those batteries still have lots of miles left in
| them. People are picking up 150,000 mile model 3's for $10K,
| and that car could be good for another 150,000 miles.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Other than some squeaks and creeks, my 2018 model 3 is
| working fine with 160,000. I don't plan on replacing it
| anytime soon.
|
| Battery has lost ~10% max capacity over the years.
| bsder wrote:
| > The open secret to EV ownership is to buy after the lease.
|
| How do you dig into this responsibly?
|
| I really don't want to be buying a new car right now as the
| ICE ones all seem to be expensive trash but the EVs are
| changing so quickly that it isn't worth it.
|
| My Chevy Volt is beginning to show its age, but you will pry
| it from my cold, dead hands at this point.
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| Three years is plenty of time to assess the reliability of
| a make and model - and also to get early issues resolved.
| Take a look at the forums.
|
| As the owner of both a 2012 BEV and a 2014 PHEV (in
| addition to my "new" 2022), all of which are in perfect
| mechanical condition, it's tough to look at BEV technology
| as something that will "greatly improve".
|
| Is my 2022 BEV way better than my 2012? Sure, but it's an
| entire decade removed (my 2012 is looking like... well,
| whatever the dog did to it). Is it worse than current
| 2025/26 BEVs? No, not by much at all.
|
| Keep on rockin' with the Volt until your dog rips up the
| upholstery. There'll be a three year old off-lease BEV or
| PHEV waiting for you at a shocking low price when it's
| time.
| Marsymars wrote:
| That works if you want an EV just because you prefer to drive
| an EV, but makes it basically impossible to save money compared
| to buying an ICEV, you'll never pay off the car, and you can't
| put enough mileage on a lease to break even with fuel costs.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| This is compounded by the fact that EV tech is rapidly
| improving, fueling depreciation. It's like personal computers
| in the 90's/00's.
|
| Compare to gas cars which is a very mature technology, and
| really only perks and features get updated.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Are they rapidly improving though?
|
| Sure, other companies are making an effort to catch up with
| Tesla on autonomous driving, but range/speed/price are
| largely stagnant.
|
| Mostly, it looks like every company (in the US/EU)is in
| shambles releasing half baked EVs hoping no one will notice
| that their hardware company is terrible at software.
| kccqzy wrote:
| Leasing will require you to carry comprehensive and collision
| insurance. With a fully owned car like mine, I carry only the
| liability insurance. This in practice more than halves my
| insurance premium payments. The reduction in insurance premium
| more than offsets any financial benefit of a lease with an
| artificially high residual value. (Leases are only beneficial
| because the residual value does not match reality.)
| BillinghamJ wrote:
| Interestingly, in the UK, comprehensive insurance is now
| generally cheaper than "third party only" or "third party,
| fire & theft" cover
|
| The reason is because the insurance companies want you to
| care about the car as an asset, on the basis that
| statistically they are driven more carefully (and therefore
| cause less third party property damage, bodily injury, etc.)
| kccqzy wrote:
| I don't know about the UK but comprehensive insurance here
| means fire and theft.
| exiguus wrote:
| Elon, is this you?
|
| Serious, is there evidence that this is happening an all EX90
| models? And what does a lawyer say in such cases? Normally,
| $90,000 cars are leased. When does the special termination apply?
| hurrrr wrote:
| The best cars were built between 2000 and 2010. Pretty much the
| pinnacle of the internal combustion engine without all the
| millions of lines of buggy code that apparently no longer allow
| you to open your car freely.
| mandevil wrote:
| In ~2005 I worked with a world-renowned expert on industrial
| automation and computer control of machines. He drove a 1989
| Mercedes 300 sedan with a manual transmission, which he claimed
| was the last car made with no software in it at all. These two
| facts are not un-related.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| By the 80s electronics were common with fuel injection, but I
| consider them more like factory controllers than what we call
| a computer. They're little 8080 variants running closed loops
| and activating or deactivating output pins
| MontgomeryPy wrote:
| Yes (and tip of the hat to my fellow 00s Saab owners!)
| yrcyrc wrote:
| Had a new Kia for the past five years and there were no issues
| apart from a speaker replaced under warranty. I cannot trust PSA,
| Renault, Stellantis or any other brands anymore. (Takata airbags)
| As for those flagships from renowned brands, it feels like a
| trend. I 'did' trust Volvo but won't anymore. The way it was
| handled is particularly poor.
| xenadu02 wrote:
| Our leased 2024 Kia EV9 has similar terrible software problems.
|
| Anyone who thinks Tesla's Autopilot/FSD (or any aspect of their
| software) is bad... much of the competition is far worse.
|
| A few issues:
|
| * Lane keeping gets dangerously close to other cars in turns for
| no apparent reason * Lane keeping will randomly decide to follow
| non-existent lanes * You can't turn off lane assist (the baby
| version of lane keeping) and it tries to override you, leading to
| jerking of the steering wheel at high speed (eg to avoid an
| obstacle in the road). * When switching from R to D it wants you
| to press the brake. But if you are still moving a tiny bit or you
| don't press the brake hard enough it just shifts you into N
| instead (!!). I live on a hill and this is only detected when I
| press the accelerator pedal and nothing happens. But you have to
| come to a full stop to shift into D (Why???). * Some settings
| refuse to save to driver profile; to get single pedal driving you
| must use the paddle shifters each driving session to go from
| iDrive 3 to Max. But if you are moving too fast it refuses to
| change the mode. If you set the mode in R it resets when you move
| to D. * Despite being an EV with key/digital key detection you
| must manually press the ON button and manually press the Off
| button. Otherwise when you get out of the car it just sits there
| ready to be driven away by a thief. * No auto-lock when walking
| away. * Remember the pedal thing from shifting? Same with
| pressing ON button. If you don't press the brake pedal down hard
| enough or give it 1-2 seconds before pressing ON it just turns on
| accessory mode. * No geofencing so no ability to configure
| anything to behave differently at home. * Want to control the
| charge plug locking behavior? Don't bother going to Settings. You
| won't find it. You must go to the home page, then press the EV
| Leaf box. Then go to EV Settings from here. There you will find a
| new settings menu that has the same ones from Settings _but_ it
| now has a couple of new categories not present with _all_ the
| other settings of the car. Including whether to lock the charge
| port door and whether to lock the charge cable into the car
| itself. * Sometimes in following cruise control mode it just
| locks in at a speed different from the one you set for no reason.
| * When you touch the accelerator in cruise it turns cruise off so
| when you let off the accelerator the car actually jerks you
| around as it decelerates for a period of time before cruise kicks
| back in lurching you forward. * Don 't press the accelerator for
| too long or it will just turn cruise control off entirely,
| including lane keeping. * It wants your hands on the steering
| wheel but if you move too much it turns off lane keeping but
| leaves cruise control on. * It has the usual massive plethora of
| physical buttons randomly scattered throughout the cabin. Some on
| the center console. Some on the three stalks. Some on the left
| side where you can't see them. Some below the touch screen. *
| Different controls behave differently. Sometimes next to each
| other with similar functions! Opening the rear door? Press and
| hold. Open the frunk? Double tap the button. The buttons are
| _next to each other_. The buttons below the touch screen?
| Capacitive it seems. Why when the rest are physical? * Despite
| the cluster being just a huge LCD they do almost nothing with it.
| The only customizations are for-pay add-ons. * Did I mention the
| light-up squares on the front are customizable? If you pay for
| them. Each pattern is an add-on you pay for. * Their app is an
| absolute disaster. I could do an entire post just about how awful
| every aspect of it is.
| jmcphers wrote:
| I own a Kia EV6 and am generally happy with it (especially
| compared to most peoples' experiences with their EVs), but most
| of this is true.
|
| The only one that really drives me nuts is the lane-keeping
| feature, which cannot even follow clearly marked lanes in broad
| daylight. I don't know that I've ever had it go for more than
| 15s without disengaging on its own, and forget following even a
| gentle curve.
| hedora wrote:
| We have all these problems with our EV9 and more. It's almost
| caused multple accidents. They should have to recall + crush
| 100% of these, or release a massive software overhaul as part
| of a recall.
|
| Recently, it's started turning itself on when you get out of
| the driver seat, and sometimes the power windows decide to
| operate themselves. I'm guessing it's only going to get worse
| over time. (There was recently a big software update, and those
| two issues started after they pushed it out.)
| mttch wrote:
| I wouldn't buy Tesla again but I've never experienced software
| issues in mine. Although some of the menus could be re-arranged
| for clarity, it's otherwise clear and responsive. The app is
| great and the third party apps are even better. I've not heard
| positive things from VW or MG owners in terms of software either.
| Is there any good alternative to Tesla in this domain?
| matthewfcarlson wrote:
| I was recently shopping for a new car and looked at Volvo.
| We've had a Model Y for a few years now and when the Volvo
| salesperson proudly showed us how the truck height could be set
| by holding the button, I asked "is that a global setting or
| does it remember where it is when you set the height?"
|
| The salesperson looked at me like I was crazy and confirmed it
| was global (the Y remembers what the proper height is at
| various locations using the GPS). It's frustrating to me that
| Teslas have fit and finish issues (though they get better) and
| there are some parts of it that I think are made cheaply (paint
| for example), but the software on the Tesla is miles ahead of
| anything else.
| kccqzy wrote:
| The Rivian is nice in terms of software. Although it also
| doesn't support CarPlay just like the Tesla.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| I'd guess Rivian SW is good, because Volkswagen's SW got so bad
| they hired Rivian to rewrite it for them. (That contract is the
| only thing keeping Rivian afloat right now.)
| websap wrote:
| Thanks for documenting your experience, I would not buy a Volvo
| ever.
| allenrb wrote:
| New cars are a fool's game for most people, imho. Unless you just
| insist on having the newest thing, they rarely make sense. Couple
| that with the relentless electronic gadgetry and phone-home
| surveillance and I may never own a car produced after ~2020. Our
| current stable:
|
| 2007 Mazdaspeed 3, just keeps going. All buttons, no screens.
|
| 2016 Porsche Cayman, one small multifunction screen, display
| only, no touch. Buttons for the very few "features" present on
| the car.
|
| 2016 Ford Transit Connect. 200k miles. Just goes. One small
| screen, doesn't interfere with anything critical.
| mrcwinn wrote:
| This is just a silly statement. Your 2007, 2016, and 2016
| vehicles were all new cars in 2007, 2016, and 2016.
|
| There are plenty of 2020-era cars that are, so far, remarkably
| reliable and cheap to maintain and repair. It's simply that
| Volvo and Polestar are quite bad at making vehicles.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > New cars are a fool's game for most people, imho.
|
| I'd have agreed with you in the past, but I just bought a new
| car for the first time. I wanted a compact pickup - there were
| basically none produced for a decade from 2012-2022 - the ones
| from before this gap are questionable safety-wise, and now
| either are falling apart from rust, or going for a hefty
| premium because there aren't many enthusiast-maintained rust-
| free models for sale. The post 2022 ones for sale just don't
| have enough of a discount off new models to be worth buying
| unless.
| Havoc wrote:
| >Find a place to stop and select P to park. When parked, the
| system will restart.
|
| Oh I know how to fix this one. Format windows partition and
| install linux
| addisonj wrote:
| I had an ex90 on pre-order for a long time, placed it within the
| first ~30 days of it being open.
|
| It looked to be (and is!) an absolutely beautiful vehicle and
| also seemed to be making choices in the hardware (lidar) that I
| hoped, would, _eventually_ deliver a combination of safety and
| self-driving capabilities that would be unmatched. I was willing
| to pay a premium and knew that it would take some time for the
| self-driving to come to fruition, but figured it would be a
| capable vehicle until that point in time.
|
| But dang, what a botched launch. Not only were there all these
| issues, which are insane to me that Volvo didn't have more people
| in social media / subreddit, but also from a financial
| perspective the car is just insanely hard to get into. Lease
| terms were absolutely terrible.
|
| I ended up getting a Hyuandai Ioniq 9 and am really glad I went
| that direction. Yeah, it doesn't offer as much as a Tesla in
| terms of FSD, but it also has better build quality and interior
| quality nearly matching the Volvo. I like the styling (but I know
| some do not), and it has actual physical controls for the stuff I
| care about and the best heads up display I have used (favorite
| feature: you get photos of incoming caller). NACS is also
| great... but I can't bring myself to take 2 spots yet at
| superchargers.
| theturtle wrote:
| The last truly good volvo was manufactured around 1992. There are
| lots of them around still.
| chaosprint wrote:
| The better I become at system programming the more scared I
| become about current systems
| jonplackett wrote:
| I'm just happier and happier with my 'dumb' car.
|
| It has physical buttons for the aircon.
|
| No wifi = no speakers listening to me and selling my personal
| data (yep that's a thing)
|
| I have to press a button on the key fob to open it so it can't be
| stolen by relaying the signal.
|
| It's pretty cheap to run because I hardly drive anywhere anyway.
|
| But when I do I just buy this stuff called 'petrol' that's all
| around the place and takes like 30 seconds.
|
| I also still get to feel smug because the environmental cost of
| producing a new electric car is WAY greater than the petrol I'm
| burning.
| bdamm wrote:
| It doesn't take much driving for a new EV to balance out the
| environmental cost of harvesting, shipping, pumping, and
| burning all that petrol. As I understand it, about 20k km or
| 15k miles, on average.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| > the environmental cost of producing a new electric car is WAY
| greater than the petrol I'm burning.
|
| The environmental cost of producing an electric car happens
| once. But driving a car is an ongoing environmental insult.
| This is an apples/oranges comparison unless you integrate the
| driving damage over time.
|
| This analysis suggests EVs are overall a win for the
| environment after 5 years of ownership, assuming your
| electricity comes from coal. If it comes from hydro or
| renewable sources, it's more like one year.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d...
| humblebeekeeper wrote:
| > I also still get to feel smug because the environmental cost
| of producing a new electric car is WAY greater than the petrol
| I'm burning.
|
| Citation very much needed.
|
| Electric cars are still cars, and therefore _terrible_ for the
| environment, but they do emit significantly less pollution over
| their lives and require a lot less oil to operate.
| butlike wrote:
| Ok. I'm starting to think that the touch displays should have a
| common interface codified into law. The fact that these
| interfaces, with no tactile feedback can be completely different
| softwares with UIs is alarming and dangerous to me.
| ardillamorris wrote:
| I have an XC90 but the hybrid that is not plug in. I can say that
| the software is complete trash. The screen often goes black. I've
| had to replace twice parts that made the entertainment system
| dead. My second car is a model Y and now I dread driving the
| Volvo. It's bigger so we use it to go to the cottage but other
| than that, I wish I had something different.
| glonq wrote:
| If you're selling cars at that price tier ($150K CAD / $110K
| USD), you'd better be backing it with top-tier service.
| jerlam wrote:
| When I saw the price, I thought it was a typo. Volvos aren't
| the cheapest cars but they're not six figure cars either.
|
| The base price (USD) is 81K - after clicking on every single
| option, I managed to bump it to 105K.
| muragekibicho wrote:
| Exactly my thoughts. 110k is porsche prices. I guess Volvo
| realized the upper-middle class car market is unsaturated.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Shame, I hear the reviews say it's such a nice car. But looking
| at those screenshots I'll refuse to buy anything else until
| software matches Tesla. 90% of car features is software now and
| buying anything else than Tesla (or Rivian) is just asking for
| trouble.
| apparent wrote:
| Recently test drove a used EX90 PHEV. I was shocked at how rough
| the transition from electric to ICE was. The owner said he never
| drove it in all-electric mode, just in hybrid mode (so the ICE is
| on all the time). We liked other aspects of the vehicle, but once
| we saw the vehicle history from the dealer, we knew it'd be
| thousands of dollars every year or two for repairs.
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| The EX90 is a new all-electric BEV released for the 2025 model
| year. Perhaps you drove an XC90 plug-in hybrid?
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| Apparently writing reliable software is harder and more expensive
| than legacy car makers expected. VW finally figured this out and
| is paying Rivian $5billion to write their software, but AFAICT no
| other legacy car maker has accepted that software is kind of
| important in modern cars and not just a showroom afterthought
| like it was 10 years ago when car buyers routinely ignored the
| stupid screen in the dash and just used their phones for
| everything.
|
| That crap won't cut it with EVs.
| epgui wrote:
| I've had similar issues with a 2023 Honda Civic and with a 2025
| Audi A3.
|
| I don't think good cars exist anymore. All car software is shit.
| smetj wrote:
| Shameless plug. My experience with emergency lane keeping systems
| in my car and reporting it to my dealership:
| https://www.smetj.net/its-for-your-own-safety.html
| gosub100 wrote:
| Gotta fight that climate change, right? Can't make an omelette
| without breaking a few eggs.
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