[HN Gopher] How to Firefox
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How to Firefox
        
       Author : Vinnl
       Score  : 677 points
       Date   : 2025-07-22 10:51 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kau.sh)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kau.sh)
        
       | thoroughburro wrote:
       | > Here's something the iPhone isn't getting anytime soon: honest-
       | to-god browser extensions that you use on your desktop, also on
       | your phone.
       | 
       | This convinces me the author is not knowledgeable about current
       | browser capabilities. They probably haven't tried anything but
       | Firefox in a long time.
       | 
       | Orion runs desktop (Firefox) extensions on iOS, and is in many
       | ways a breath of fresh air. Instead of parroting "all iOS
       | browsers are Safari" and throwing their hands in the air, they
       | actually got hacking on it.
       | 
       | https://kagi.com/orion/
       | 
       | Edit:
       | 
       | > With adopting the Web Extensions API, we show our support for
       | creating a unified browser extensions experience across all three
       | major web rendering engines. We ended up porting hundreds of
       | APIs, one by one, that were never meant to work with WebKit. Took
       | us a few years, but here we are!
       | 
       | > Orion currently supports about 70% of Web Extensions APIs, and
       | we add more every day. On top of that, we built advanced security
       | features that give our users granular control over extensions,
       | beyond what Chrome and Firefox offer. For example, you can choose
       | to allow an extension to run only on certain websites.
        
         | inopinatus wrote:
         | by family tree, almost all current browsers are descendants of
         | '90s-era Konqueror.
        
         | elashri wrote:
         | While orion is good option, it is not there yet in terms of
         | comparison with Firefox on Android. Many of the extensions will
         | install but will not actually work. Even uBlock origin will
         | have problems. Also it is common that an update will make the
         | browser crash very often (happened with few updates). Also they
         | don't provide a list of APIs they support and it is not open
         | source (although they said they will but at this point I don't
         | think they will any time soon).
        
           | thoroughburro wrote:
           | But you agree the quote I responded to was incorrect, right?
        
             | elashri wrote:
             | Orion is based on WebKit, that's usually what people mean
             | when they say it is all safari. So it is technically
             | correct but orion approach ia to try to implement web
             | extensions API in WebKit. Otherwise, apple wouldn't have
             | allowed orion on App Store because the requirement is not
             | to use any other engines (holding off to see what EU DMA
             | effect would have).
        
             | cwillu wrote:
             | You agree that your statement that it runs firefox
             | extensions is misleading, right?
             | 
             | If I said "linux runs windows software and games" without
             | further remarks, people would be correct to call me out on
             | it.
        
               | thoroughburro wrote:
               | No, I don't agree. And Linux does run Windows software
               | and games; I use this ability all the time.
               | 
               | Are there really people who read that and think "ALL
               | Windows software and games" is implied? Bizarre to me.
        
               | rwc wrote:
               | Yes. If you say you're compatible with Windows software
               | and games, my expectation as a user is that everything
               | "just works".
        
               | thoroughburro wrote:
               | You changed the phrase from "runs Windows software and
               | games" to "compatible with Windows software and games".
               | I'm talking about the former phrase. The latter does
               | imply more, but I didn't say it; you did.
        
               | sshine wrote:
               | You're arguing about average assumptions.
               | 
               | Your biases are leaning in different directions.
               | 
               | Running Windows software on Linux requires a bit of
               | domain knowledge; e.g. Wine, Lutris, Proton. E.g. which
               | software actually works really well, which software works
               | with tweaks, and which software largely works but you
               | need to avoid certain features. The fact that you need to
               | install special software, and it isn't some core OS
               | compatibility layer like 32-bit support makes it lean
               | towards "runs Windows software and games" being a little
               | ambitious. It's not a perfect user story, that's all.
        
               | homebrewer wrote:
               | By your definition, Windows is not compatible with
               | Windows.
        
               | echoangle wrote:
               | Yes, some windows versions aren't compatible with other
               | windows versions. That's not a contradiction.
        
               | treyd wrote:
               | If you wrote a function in a dynamically typed language
               | and the documentation said "this accepts integers", but
               | actually it crashed if you gave a prime integer and you
               | only expected people to give it composite integers,
               | people would say that the documentation was inaccurate.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | It doesn't even matter if you're right.
               | 
               | 0.0001% of users will use this. It's a non-starter.
               | 
               | The only solution to this problem is antitrust
               | enforcement against Google.
        
             | dleeftink wrote:
             | Not op, but you cannot fault the author for not knowing
             | every app or trend. With any luck, your reply will inform
             | the original author, who may learn a thing or two from the
             | discussion we are having here!
        
         | navigate8310 wrote:
         | The author definitely is not being very knowledgeable. In the
         | comments, they didn't try Zen because they assumed, it can't
         | sync bookmarks and extensions, which in fact it can and has
         | Mozilla account baked into it.
        
           | sorcercode wrote:
           | yep that's something I learned later.
           | 
           | fwiw though: Zen does have other challenges at the moment
           | with the Widevine licence. so you effectively can't use it to
           | watch most video services today.
           | 
           | But point taken, from a technical accuracy perspective.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I tried Orion after reading this, but other than uBlock Origin
         | I haven't had much luck with getting extensions to work. I
         | guess the extensions I use don't really overlap with the 70%
         | they do support. If they've been working hard on this for
         | years, I have to wonder what will happen first, actual mobile
         | extension support on iOS through Kagi or a Firefox release for
         | iOS.
         | 
         | The entire Orion browser feels like a beta product to me. But
         | at least I've got uBlock on my work phone now, so that's cool I
         | guess.
        
           | freeAgent wrote:
           | It is literally in beta, so it feeling like a beta product
           | isn't surprising. It does work with the extensions I need and
           | it's my primary browser on iOS, but I still find it too buggy
           | and crash-prone on the desktop. That seems to be improving,
           | but it's not convinced me that it's reliable enough yet.
        
         | lol768 wrote:
         | > parroting "all iOS browsers are Safari"
         | 
         | But they are? It's a rendering engine monoculture. Sure, they
         | might have different skins and some stuff bolted on top, but
         | let's not pretend that that constitutes a different browser
         | (and this is precisely why Apple got bitch-slapped by the
         | European Union).
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | It's still something of an exaggeration. If you take a look
           | at the source for iOS browsers, the amount of unique code is
           | non-trivial.
           | 
           | At minimum, it's a sliding scale rather than binary and iOS
           | browsers are less Safari reskins than Chromium-based browsers
           | (most of which share a much higher percentage of code) are
           | Chrome reskins. There's exceptions like Arc which uses a
           | bespoke AppKit/SwiftUI/WinUI UI instead of the standard
           | Chromium stuff but that's pretty rare.
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | > the amount of unique code is non-trivial
             | 
             | This doesn't matter as long as essential features of
             | Firefox aren't allowed by Apple.
        
               | cosmic_cheese wrote:
               | Orion has proven that web extensions are allowed, even if
               | its implementation isn't complete. There's no guideline
               | preventing a browser with a user-hackable UI (like
               | Firefox userChrome) but nobody's tried that yet. What's
               | left? As far as I'm aware, it's just the small handful of
               | manifest v2 request interceptor APIs that uBlock Origin
               | depends on that can't be supported fully.
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | > small handful of manifest v2 request interceptor APIs
               | that uBlock Origin depends on that can't be supported
               | fully
               | 
               | ... which is the most important Firefox extension.
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | The author is very clearly an Android user, so I'll give them
         | some leeway on this. It's not like it's the crux of their
         | opinion, it's just one extra layer. Also, until Orion is
         | available on Windows and Linux, it's a no-go for a lot of
         | people.
        
         | abyssin wrote:
         | Thank you so much for this comment that made me learn about
         | Orion on iOS. It seems to be filling a gap that had been open
         | for years.
        
         | DavideNL wrote:
         | > "Orion runs desktop (Firefox) extensions on iOS"
         | 
         | Most extensions _can_ be installed, but they _do not_ actually
         | function properly. Or, maybe only for 50%.
         | 
         | The most annoying part is, you do not know which extensions
         | don't work (like content blockers, etc.)
        
       | esskay wrote:
       | I really struggled going back to Firefox after being a Chrome
       | user for so long, it just feels so incredibly slow in comparison
       | - I know it's probably just perception but I couldn't shake that
       | feeling.
       | 
       | I ended up going with Brave. Once you turn off their crummy VPN
       | and crypto advert it's effectively just google chrome with a
       | built in ad blocker.
       | 
       | I know there were arguments/concerns about the crypto thing, but
       | I did a bit of research before picking a new browser (as should
       | you) and once I realised it was a simple thing to turn off and
       | never see again I was fine with it, it's all opensource as well
       | so you can see how things work.
       | 
       | Of course it's just a chrome fork, so is still somewhat
       | influenced by Googles decisions but that really wasn't the issue
       | here, I just wanted to keep ublock origin and that's been the
       | outcome.
       | 
       | I still have syncing and such all running between my desktop and
       | mobile, I still have all the same extensions I've used for over a
       | decade, so it's been relatively pain free to switch.
        
         | eclecticfrank wrote:
         | Give us an example where Chrome is faster than Firefox, so we
         | can see if it is more important than having uBlock Origin.
         | 
         | I use both Firefox and Chrome for work and haven't noticed any
         | speed differences (without measuring).
        
           | esskay wrote:
           | As I said I think it's more of a perception thing than an
           | actual slowness.
           | 
           | I don't think Firefox is actually any slower in a practical
           | test of loading a site for example, I just perceived it as
           | being slower, perhaps more likely its something like the
           | transitions between tabs and other actions being different
           | enough to feel slower.
        
           | homebrewer wrote:
           | If your life has been as unfair to you as it has been to some
           | of us, and forced you to work on SPAs as the result, try
           | opening any large frontend project that uses Vite (or any
           | other dev server that serves each file separately instead of
           | bundling them).
           | 
           | If you're unfamiliar with this stuff, it results in your
           | browser fetching thousands of JavaScript files from the local
           | dev server.
           | 
           | Any Chromium-based browser handles that just fine in about
           | 1-2 seconds. Firefox takes at least ten, including full page
           | reloads. No adblocking on either, and yes I've tried all
           | combinations of about:config knobs, fresh/empty profiles,
           | etc.
           | 
           | That's the only reason I use Chromium for development work.
        
             | _benj wrote:
             | > If your life has been as unfair to you as it has been to
             | some of us, and forced you to work on SPAs as the result...
             | 
             | Hehe
        
             | CafeRacer wrote:
             | Life is unfair to me and Firefox works just fine.
        
             | chamomeal wrote:
             | I use firefox to work on SPA's and occasionally use chrome
             | for compatibility checks. I haven't really noticed a
             | difference in speed, except for startup time (which firefox
             | is definitely slower, but I also have it open pretty much
             | all the time anyway)
        
           | jhasse wrote:
           | https://www.browserating.com/#rankings
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | Chrome is faster and smoother on my Linux machines and on
           | Android. On Windows and macOS, the difference is much less
           | obvious.
           | 
           | I still use Firefox everywhere, but Mozilla still has some
           | catching up to do in my experience.
        
           | pixelesque wrote:
           | I suspect part of it might be interactive-ity with the event
           | loop: let me explain.
           | 
           | I regularly have to use web browsers (I try and want to use
           | Firefox, but Chrome is faster for me in this scenario) on an
           | under-provisioned (yes I know, but I don't have any control
           | over that!) VM which runs VDI sessions on both Linux and
           | Windows (with VMWare on Windows).
           | 
           | On both Windows and Linux, Firefox's UI (in this CPU-
           | constrained env - it fluctuates, and sometimes is okay, but
           | often is slow) in terms of UI interaction is very notice-ably
           | much slower than Chrome, especially when there's animated
           | content in the document. It seems like Firefox prioritizes
           | thread-wise the HTML/JS content at the expense of any UI
           | signals/presses/drags or other interaction, and so sometimes
           | clicking close tab does nothing for > 30 seconds, but
           | animated content within the document keeps playing perfectly.
           | 
           | Chrome does none of this (on same VM machines) with same
           | content: I click the close button, and instantly a tab
           | closes, or I can drag a tab around instantly.
        
             | cosmic_cheese wrote:
             | I think that Chromium's UI stack is also just more solid,
             | being closer to "native" and being drawn with Skia and
             | such, as opposed to the Firefox approach (previously XUL,
             | which was always slow and clunky and later switching to a
             | web tech based UI).
             | 
             | There used to be Gecko based browsers that fixed this with
             | alternative native UIs (Camino, K-Meleon, and Epiphany aka
             | GNOME Web), but then Mozilla removed embedding support and
             | ever since anybody wanting to use Gecko are stuck with the
             | design decisions of the Firefox team whether they want to
             | be or not.
        
           | buzer wrote:
           | One example that I can give is that when Firefox has been
           | running for long time, especially in Private window, the
           | memory usage of "main" processes will grow a lot (normal &
           | GPU). Compacting memory via about:memory does free up a bit
           | but Chrome in similar situation will use a lot less memory.
           | This does slow down Firefox (especially in system where you
           | don't necessarily have a lot of memory), restarting it will
           | make it a lot snappier.
           | 
           | For example I currently have Firefox & Chrome sessions which
           | have been open for about a month on my laptop (16GB of
           | memory). I closed every tab and only left the "blank" page
           | open. Firefox's process manager shows 4GB GPU usage, a bit
           | under 1GB usage for Firefox & about 250MB for extensions.
           | After clicking "minimize memory usage" the GPU memory dropped
           | to 3GB and Firefox process memory usage dropped by about
           | 50MB.
           | 
           | For comparison Chrome uses 400MB of GPU, about 200MB for
           | "Browser", ~150MB for for "utility" processes and about 100MB
           | for extensions (extension list is different so we can ignore
           | the memory usage difference for them, listed it just for
           | completeness sake).
           | 
           | Despite this I do use Firefox as my primary browser.
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | May be a leaky extension, I rarely get over 1gb with
             | firefox.
        
           | EbNar wrote:
           | https://arewefastyet.com/win11/benchmarks/overview?numDays=6.
           | ..
           | 
           | This is from Mozilla themselves.
        
         | moltar wrote:
         | Interesting. I don't notice any difference in stock browsers.
         | With a ton of privacy extensions I do feel FF gets a bit laggy
         | but that's a price I'm willing to pay. On chrome I can't even
         | do these things.
        
         | karel-3d wrote:
         | I still see random crypto ads on new tab page.
         | 
         | I never bothered to turn it off, it's possible I guess but it's
         | an interesting window to a bizarro world for me. (Oh some new
         | blockchain NFT game! People still do that in 2025 apparently?
         | Now with AI hype crap instead of metaverse hype crap?)
         | 
         | It's never bothering me as it never advertises anything that I
         | am actually interested in.
        
         | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
         | I have used Firefox for many years now on all my devices, and I
         | find it much better at almost anything: password management
         | works better accross devices, history syncs better, etc. With
         | chrome I could never really rely on saving a password on
         | desktop, taking the phone and having a password just there.
         | 
         | Maybe it improved in the past few years, I didn't bother to
         | check.
         | 
         | Also, Firefox is the last non-chrome-engined browser so it is
         | worth using for that reason alone. Browser monopoly is bad and
         | WILL be used against you, eventually.
        
         | nasso_dev wrote:
         | I don't know if it's just me but in my case the problem isn't
         | really the crypto bs, but rather Brendan Eich himself.
         | 
         | As much as Mozilla and Firefox can be criticized for both
         | technical and non-technical reasons, at least I share the same
         | core values. I don't seem to share any core value with Brave or
         | its creator. Plus, yeah, still smells like Google :)
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | Brendan Eich's contributions to computing are immeasurable.
           | Your opinions of his social or political views don't change
           | that.
           | 
           | Do you not use Linux because you don't like Linus? He's quite
           | a controversial figure. And before you say Linux is not
           | Linus, the same can be said about Brave and Brendan.
           | 
           | Many other people work on these projects than just the
           | leader.
           | 
           | Do you not use JavaScript because you don't like Brendan?
        
             | crashabr wrote:
             | > No moral choice is possible unless all your choices are
             | moral.
             | 
             | https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-
             | som...
        
         | scottydelta wrote:
         | As someone who was exclusively Firefox until a month ago due to
         | privacy had to go back to chromium on MacOS due to Firefox's
         | inability to handle multiple dev react frontends. They just
         | seems slow and would stall Firefox with that loader in blank
         | screen.
         | 
         | The dev experience has been better with chromium so I have been
         | using chromium for development and Firefox for regular usage.
        
       | stby wrote:
       | The article implies that tabs, bookmarks, passwords can only be
       | synchronised between Firefox installations and not with Zen or
       | Libre (I assume this refers to LibreWolf?), but at least Zen can
       | be connected to the Mozilla account and synchronises everything
       | with the other connected Firefox, Firefox for Android, ...
       | installations.
        
         | thoroughburro wrote:
         | LibreWolf also connects and syncs seamlessly to Firefox
         | Accounts.
        
           | Propelloni wrote:
           | Same for Waterfox.
        
         | silvanocerza wrote:
         | > Zen can be connected to the Mozilla account and synchronises
         | everything with the other connected Firefox, Firefox for
         | Android, ... installations.
         | 
         | They made this work? I remember testing it out some months ago
         | and it didn't work because of some reason.
        
           | krige wrote:
           | Yeah, it works as of ~3 months ago until now. t. user
        
         | Geezus_42 wrote:
         | I'm eagerly awaiting Zen to enable tab groups/folders. I've
         | been watching feat:9355, but its gotten bogged down in a debate
         | about the whether tab folders in the tab bar should be the same
         | as bookmarks, ala Arc. I personally did not like that Arc
         | considered tabs and bookmarks to be the same because it made
         | management and syncing a pita. Having to use a third script to
         | export your bookmarks is not a good look.
        
           | godshatter wrote:
           | I haven't used tab groups, is it like the indenting done in
           | tree style tabs? I find workspaces and vertical tabs in Zen
           | sufficient for my needs in organizing tabs, but I'm a
           | complete amateur when it comes to the fine art of loading
           | extreme numbers of multiple tabs from what I've seen of
           | others.
        
       | akazantsev wrote:
       | Firefox has no profiles. It has a bunch of hacks, such as
       | containers, which are cumbersome to use. Chromium provides
       | separate windows with different profiles, and Firefox should
       | follow Chromium here. Firefox's "solution" forces you to switch
       | Github tabs between personal and work containers constantly.
        
         | uallo wrote:
         | > Firefox has no profiles.
         | 
         | It does now, it is being rolled out gradually:
         | 
         | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-management
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | I didn't know about this new feature, that looks nice. One
           | can force-enable it with the browser.profiles.enabled config.
           | 
           | Firefox havs always had profiles (about:profiles, firefox
           | -P). I do hope this new feature will be able to manage
           | profiles created with the current method.
        
         | lmz wrote:
         | It definitely has "profiles" as in the entire set of settings/
         | preferences/history[1]. Whether or not they are usable as a
         | replacement for Chrome's however...
         | 
         | [1]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-
         | create-...
        
         | VerdisQuo5678 wrote:
         | firefox has had profiles for years, maybe decades its hidden in
         | about:profiles i guess they're just adding a proper ui now
        
         | paavope wrote:
         | I use profiles on Firefox daily and they work fine
         | 
         | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-...
        
           | akazantsev wrote:
           | The only way to access it with `about:profiles`? It looks
           | like a joke. How could users possibly find this?
           | 
           | UPD. The more I look at this, the worse it gets. Hidden under
           | a special URL, requires you to launch the default profile
           | before you can switch to another profile (yes-yes, there are
           | command-line hacks). It's more like a user data manager for
           | devs than profiles for users. Even containers look better
           | than these profiles.
        
             | arp242 wrote:
             | You can use "firefox -ProfileManager". I didn't even know
             | about about:profiles. There is some work on improving the
             | UI: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-management
             | 
             | Anyway, your claim was "Firefox has no profiles". That is
             | not true.
        
               | akazantsev wrote:
               | Really? Then you can claim that Chrome has supported
               | "profiles" since its inception, with the `--user-data-
               | dir` command-line switch. If something is not user-
               | visible, it is as good as non-existent. Firefox has no
               | profiles as far as a regular user is concerned.
        
               | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
               | The new profile manager has already been enabled for most
               | users.
               | 
               | If you don't see it in the main menu yet, type
               | `about:config` into the address bar and toggle
               | `browser.profiles.enabled`.
        
             | josephd79 wrote:
             | what in the world are you talking about? you click settings
             | in the upper right hand corner and its right there.
        
           | keyringlight wrote:
           | Another thing you can do is run multiple profiles at the same
           | time with the -no-remote argument , so "firefox -P
           | profilename -no-remote"
        
             | jraph wrote:
             | You don't need the -no-remote parameter anymore btw from
             | what I can see.
        
         | elashri wrote:
         | > Firefox has no profiles
         | 
         | That is not true [1]. Firefox has profiles and while you can
         | argue that their UX is worse than chrome but that doesn't mean
         | it does not have profiles.
         | 
         | [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-
         | create-...
        
         | MatejKafka wrote:
         | Containers feel like a much more useful feature to me than
         | profiles - I don't wanna open a new window for each website
         | that I want to isolate from my main session, but with
         | containers, it's trivial.
        
           | l72 wrote:
           | I mostly agree, and I personally just use containers (and
           | heavily!) However, that has not been the case for my spouse.
           | Profiles are important to her in two scenarios:
           | 
           | 1. The primary website she uses for grad school (canvas)
           | REQUIRES third party cookies to be enabled for it to work.
           | Containers cannot have different settings here, but profiles
           | can. So she can have a School profile that enables 3rd party
           | cookies and she just uses this profile for Canvas.
           | 
           | 2. She likes to keep ALL of her work stuff separate and not
           | have that sync to her personal mobile. So she has Personal
           | Profile (with containers) and a Work Profile (also with
           | containers). The two profiles are themed differently, so it
           | makes it very clear if she is in her "work" browser or
           | "personal" browser.
           | 
           | Firefox's profile management has been a struggle for her (I
           | found creating different application icons for each profile
           | worked best), and I am very excited about the new profile
           | manager!
        
         | pta2002 wrote:
         | This is weird to me because I so much prefer Firefox's per-tab
         | containers to having to use separate windows for profiles. I
         | wish chrome had something like it.
        
           | germandiago wrote:
           | The problem here IMHO is that when many tabs are open it
           | becomes confusing quickly which tabs have what. With a
           | profile everything is clear.
           | 
           | I used Firefox and I like it but honestly the profiles were
           | more difficult to use than Chrome's.
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | Are you one of those people with a thousand tabs open so
             | the tabs shrink to just the icon? Even in that extreme
             | case, everything is color coded and the URL bar labels it.
        
               | eitland wrote:
               | Not GP and I rarely get into the thousands anymore but I
               | am clearly of the opinion that computers can remember
               | much better than me.
               | 
               | So many of the things I start looking into starts with a
               | search in a single tab and then every link I ctrl-click
               | during the process ends up in a tree underneath it (yes,
               | I use Tree Style Tabs).
               | 
               | This has a few benefits:
               | 
               | - I can easily see things in context
               | 
               | - when I end up on a particularly useful (or useless)
               | page I can easily see what page linked me there
               | 
               | - I can read the root pages and follow links from every
               | one of them without losing track ( _the_ root page is
               | usually a kagi search)
               | 
               | - when I am finished I can either export the whole tree
               | as a nested markdown list (yes, there is a nice TST
               | extension that allows me that, and yes, you read that
               | correctly, it is an extension to an extension) or just
               | close it.
        
         | pritambaral wrote:
         | > Firefox has no profiles.
         | 
         | Patently false. Been using profiles for years.
         | 
         | > bunch of hacks, such as containers, which are cumbersome to
         | use. Firefox's "solution" forces you to switch Github tabs
         | between personal and work containers constantly.
         | 
         | Rarely have I had to that. Until I added rules to open certain
         | URLs in specific containers.
         | 
         | > Chromium provides separate windows with different profiles,
         | and Firefox should follow Chromium here.
         | 
         | Absolutely not. Profiles are a poor "alternative" to
         | containers. How do I add a rule to pin URLs to specific
         | profiles? How would that even work, if it did? A new window for
         | some links? Re-use some random window with the same profile?
         | How do I switch to it? Switch back? Don't tell me to use the
         | Window Manager via Alt-Tab. I organise tabs into windows by
         | shared context.
         | 
         | Then there's the whole issue of sync. Profiles don't share
         | anything. Each profile needs to be configured individually. I
         | like not having to add uBlock Origin to every browser profile.
         | I like not having to think if I have my password for this
         | rarely visited site in this profile or another one. Or a
         | bookmark. Or form info.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Just because containers have no use to you / you couldn't find
         | a use for them, doesn't mean the rest of us also shouldn't have
         | the luxury of using this feature. Feel free to use Profiles as
         | you'd like. Leave what works for us alone.
        
           | CharlieDigital wrote:
           | I personally prefer containers to profiles. Rather have one
           | window with many tabs than many windows.
        
           | leoapagano wrote:
           | Firefox's "answer" to profiles is to run essentially two (or
           | more) copies of the browser rather than only copying the
           | profile-specific parts of each profile. This leads to a lot
           | of wasted CPU cycles and RAM and is a very suboptimal
           | solution compared to what Chromium and Safari do these days,
           | not to mention that the ability to create and switch profiles
           | is not included in the UI by default and requires an
           | extension to access.
        
             | Liquid_Fire wrote:
             | I think you may be mixing up profiles and containers.
             | 
             | Profiles do have a built-in UI at about:profiles or by
             | launching Firefox with -P, neither of which requires an
             | extension. Admittedly this UI is a bit basic, but a better
             | version is being rolled out
             | (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-management).
             | Running multiple profiles side by side does indeed involve
             | running multiple instances of the browser.
             | 
             | Containers are an internal API and need an extension like
             | Multi-account Containers to provide a GUI (though this is
             | an official extension by Mozilla), however they don't
             | require running multiple copies of the browser.
        
               | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
               | The new profile manager has already been enabled for most
               | users.
               | 
               | If you don't see it in the main menu yet, type
               | `about:config` into the address bar and toggle
               | `browser.profiles.enabled`.
        
             | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
             | The new profile manager has already been enabled for most
             | users.
             | 
             | If you don't see it in the main menu yet, type
             | `about:config` into the address bar and toggle
             | `browser.profiles.enabled`.
        
               | godshatter wrote:
               | I just did this and it doesn't see the multiple profiles
               | I've been using for years through about:profile. Strange.
        
               | leoapagano wrote:
               | Just tried it out - definitely an improvement UX-wise,
               | but it still essentially runs two copies of Firefox
               | rather than only isolating profile-specific features.
        
         | sorenjan wrote:
         | I have a shortcut that starts a separate profile like this:
         | <path to firefox.exe> -profile <path to profile folder> -no-
         | remote
         | 
         | Separate bookmarks, separate search engines, separate history,
         | etc. I've been using it for years, I usually have a Firefox
         | window for each profile open on separate desktops, there's no
         | problems running them at the same time.
        
       | ketanmaheshwari wrote:
       | Does anyone know how to reliably use Firefox from command line to
       | take screenshots? It used to work well a few years ago but now it
       | does not. For one, it asks that Firefox is already running and I
       | need to kill it. This is surprising -- why can't two Firefox
       | processes run at the same time?
        
         | moltar wrote:
         | Script with Playwright?
        
         | jdalt wrote:
         | Use playwright?
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | It is whining about the shared use of your main profile
         | directory. You can give it a temporary profile directory to
         | more clearly express your intentions via "--
         | profile=/tmp/$(uuidgen)" or similar. I'd guess you could even
         | just straight up point <<env HOME=$(tmpdir) firefox
         | --screenshot...>> for even stronger isolation
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | PROFILEDIR="$(mktemp -d)"       firefox --no-remote  --profile
         | "$PROFILEDIR" --screenshot $PWD/output.png https://xkcd.com
         | rm -r "$PROFILEDIR"
         | 
         | (You don't _have_ to create and destroy a profile directory
         | every time, but it 's cleaner to do that way and you need one
         | per instance you're going to run anyways)
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | The CLI has long had `-noremote` for a long time to tell it you
         | want a second Firefox. It's useful with `-ProfileManager` or
         | `-P $profileName` for multi-profile workflows, which are out of
         | fashion this decade, especially with Multi-Account Containers
         | being able to do most of those workflows in the same browser
         | window now with different tags. But some of us still have
         | ancient profiles for ancient reasons and ingrained habits
         | regarding them.
         | 
         | Ancient documentation: https://www-
         | archive.mozilla.org/docs/command-line-args.html
        
       | iamkonstantin wrote:
       | I tried Firefox just a few days ago, but it didn't work out. I
       | just missed too many things out of the box. My main browser is
       | Vivaldi (so all the chromium goodies + privacy + made in EU).
       | Safari comes in as a close second, I tend to use it on the go
       | because it syncs well with my Mac and Apple throttles any other
       | browser on iOS.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > I just missed too many things out of the box.
         | 
         | Another very vague comment bashing Firefox without any real
         | explanation.
        
           | iamkonstantin wrote:
           | I'm not sure making a list that's been done time and time
           | again here would make a difference. But if you're truly
           | interested, here are my top 3:
           | 
           | - Firefox comes packed with all kinds of telemetry and
           | analytics turned on.
           | 
           | - No workspaces/profiles. I know there are extensions that
           | can enable various flavours of this functionality, but it's
           | just too much overhead to experiment and test every-single-
           | one.
           | 
           | - Widgets! I love Vivaldi's Dashboard for when one needs more
           | than just a homepage.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | > No workspaces/profiles. I know there are extensions that
             | can enable various flavours of this functionality, but it's
             | just too much overhead to experiment and test every-single-
             | one.
             | 
             | Most of it is built-in and these days there is generally
             | only one recommended extension: Multi-Account Container.
             | Containers (tabs in the same window with different cookie
             | jars/etc) are built-in, the UI for working with them is
             | not, and MAC is the generally agreed best UI. It lets you
             | create as many named Containers as you want and assign them
             | a color to gently stripe your tabs. You can right-click the
             | new tab button and get a list of Containers to open the
             | next tab in. You can right-click an existing tab and reopen
             | it in a new Container. (TIL from this article there's an
             | option to have left click on the new tab button always open
             | the Container menu. I don't think I'd use that, but it's
             | nice to know.)
             | 
             | If you want to go older school, Profiles (browser windows
             | with different extensions/cookie jars/everything) have been
             | around since the beginning of Firefox (and it shows in how
             | old and ugly some of the UI still is, hah).
             | `about:profiles` is a profile manager when you are already
             | inside a Firefox browser. The `-ProfileManager` command
             | line switch is the ancient startup option to manage
             | profiles before opening a browser window at all. If you
             | like to use side-by-side profiles often you want `-noremote
             | -ProfileManager` and/or `-noremote -P $profileName`
             | shortcuts. (`-noremote` says not to send it to any
             | currently open Firefox window.)
        
               | everybodyknows wrote:
               | > Multi-Account Container
               | 
               | Last I looked, it was not possible to bind a bookmark to
               | a preferred MAC.
        
               | WorldMaker wrote:
               | The MAC UI itself allows to assign a domain to always
               | open in a specific container. If you need it more
               | specific than an entire domain there are other extensions
               | that can allow you to automate containers, but personally
               | all I've needed are the domain-wide assignments.
               | 
               | Admittedly, I also tend to use unloaded tabs more than
               | bookmarks, so if I need a very specific address in a
               | specific container I am probably likely to just unload it
               | but leave it open somewhere. (Sideberry "helps" me in
               | this bad habit with multiple tab panels and tree grouping
               | of tabs.)
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | > - No workspaces/profiles.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44645720
        
         | Mashimo wrote:
         | Ah, nice share.
         | 
         | I was looking at different chrome alternatives and most of them
         | had ~something~ wrong with them. I have not tried vivaldi yet,
         | but from a bit of research it seems just like the browser I was
         | looking for. Thanks for sharing.
         | 
         | Any specific thing a first time user should know? Use build in
         | ad blocker or install uBlock Origin?
        
       | cwillu wrote:
       | I prefer stylebot to stylus, as it doesn't require an unnecessary
       | dance to make a specific theme and then mark it as only for the
       | current site, before you can plop some css into the sidebar for
       | that specific site.
        
       | midnitewarrior wrote:
       | Just use Brave Browser. https://brave.com/
       | 
       | It's like de-Googled Chrome, as it's based on the same Open
       | Source Chromium browser, has all of the ad-blocking and anti-
       | fingerprint tools built in, and all of the Google taken out.
       | 
       | You can also run popular browser extensions published for Chrome,
       | but you don't need to worry about ad blocking, as Brave has you
       | covered by default.
       | 
       | It also blocks YouTube ads effectively, by default. There's
       | nothing you have to do to make this work.
        
         | eclecticfrank wrote:
         | Brave wants to replace "bad" ads from third parties with their
         | own "good" ads.[1]
         | 
         | They have also in the past been caught adding their own
         | referral codes to crypto transaction URLs pasted into their
         | browser. [2]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-earn-and-use-
         | cryptocurre... [2] https://www.pcmag.com/news/brave-browser-
         | caught-redirecting-...
        
           | dartharva wrote:
           | You can disable Brave Shields and just use classic uBO (which
           | Brave supports) instead.
        
           | esskay wrote:
           | I'm not sure trying to bad mouth it by bringing up a 5+ year
           | old long fixed thing is the right way to go about making a
           | point. Heck if we're doing that theres vastly more "wrong"
           | over at Mozilla and Google to complain about in that
           | timeframe.
           | 
           | Aa of right now Brave has two "features" that you can disable
           | - the crypto thing and a vpn advert. Once those are off, they
           | are off. You don't see them anymore, they aren't sitting in
           | the background running, and they aren't calling home.
           | 
           | It's no different to Mozilla's constant and blatant attempts
           | to reactivate telemetry data in Firefox updates despite
           | opting out - I'd argue that's a bigger offence.
        
           | midnitewarrior wrote:
           | Yeah, this seems a bit disingenuous given the nature of, and
           | the time since that issue existed.
           | 
           | I did their ads, I made hundreds of dollars leaving them on
           | in the early days. I value my attention more so I've shut
           | them off.
        
       | JLemay wrote:
       | Just fell to my knees in a Walmart, this is how I find out that
       | Chrome pulled the trigger on uBlock Origin. While I haven't used
       | Firefox in a while (brave user) it's still a shame such a thing
       | happened, although it was just a matter of time. It's like every
       | day the enshittification of the internet keeps accelerating.
        
       | javier_e06 wrote:
       | Firefox is all that.
       | 
       | Except on my arm-based crhomebook. There it gets confused and do
       | not resize properly thinking is in phone format.
       | 
       | Also cast to chromecast is a no-go.
       | 
       | If it wasn't by those 2 issues I would have ditched chrome long
       | time ago.
        
       | skrebbel wrote:
       | I would just like to add that in my experience, "How to Firefox"
       | is just:
       | 
       | - Download Firefox
       | 
       | - Install uBlock Origin
       | 
       | - Use Firebox
       | 
       | Somehow this blog post makes it seem like adopting Firefox is
       | hard, or overwhelming, or some multi step process, and if you
       | don't do those steps you're effectively downgrading. But really
       | it isn't. It's a browser. Its UX is great. It just... works.
       | 
       | The suggestion that to use it properly you need to customize it
       | to the max is simply flat out wrong.
        
         | boobsbr wrote:
         | You forgot
         | 
         | - Disable all telemetry
         | 
         | in your list.
        
           | skrebbel wrote:
           | In the context of switching from Chrome? No, I very much did
           | not. On the privacy front, I'm absolutely convinced that
           | switching from Chrome to Firefox is an upgrade even if you
           | don't do stuff like this.
           | 
           | This is my entire point. Yes, you _can_ tweak Firefox to the
           | max and yes you _can_ complain about the more questionable
           | stuff Mozilla has done, but compared to the privacy /goodness
           | you get just from ditching Chrome (or Edge for that matter),
           | all that is pretty marginal.
        
           | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
           | Disabling anonymous telemetry just harms the project. It
           | doesn't give you any "privacy" benefit.
        
         | voidUpdate wrote:
         | - Work out how to transfer everything across from whatever you
         | were using before
        
           | sfink wrote:
           | Which is actually not bad these days. Firefox imports a lot
           | of stuff from a bunch of different browsers. (Or so I've
           | heard; I haven't used a bunch of different browsers and built
           | up enough stuff to know for myself.)
        
       | adithyassekhar wrote:
       | This is really hard to read. I can't get the tone of the article
       | or how I'm supposed to feel about it. Or is it a generation gap,
       | I was born in 2000.
        
         | skotobaza wrote:
         | >I can't get the tone of the article or how I'm supposed to
         | feel about it
         | 
         | It's a tech article. What do you expect to feel while reading
         | it?
        
         | alt227 wrote:
         | > This is really hard to read.
         | 
         | I am old and I agree.
         | 
         | It is full of things that break the flow of reading like asking
         | a hypothetical question to the reader and following it up with
         | a plosive like 'BOOM!', or inserting useless conversational
         | stops like like 'sure,' 'But...', and '...Nope!'.
         | 
         | Makes it sound/feel like an excited toddler is desperate to
         | tell you something, but cant really get to the point.
        
       | sto11z wrote:
       | I tried transitioning to FF from Chrome several times, but it
       | just feels so unresonsive and slow in comparison. I really wanted
       | to, but ultimately couldn't.
       | 
       | On a side note: You can manually install uBlock and just continue
       | using it:
       | 
       | - Enter chrome://flags in chrome's URL input
       | 
       | - Search for 'Allow legacy extension manifest versions'
       | 
       | - Enable it and relaunch browser
       | 
       | - Download the latest zip file of uBlock version from github:
       | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/releases
       | 
       | - Under Assets, download the chromium zip and extract it
       | 
       | - Open the extension page in chrome, click the Load Unpacked
       | button on top left side load (enable Developer Mode in the top
       | right if it doesn't appear), then select the extracted folder.
        
         | Ygg2 wrote:
         | Understandable. I tried moving from Firefox to Chrome but I
         | couldn't. Pages are so slow to load and there are adds
         | everywhere.
        
           | TechDebtDevin wrote:
           | I'm curious what would make you even want to try with all the
           | shenanigans Google has been up to. It seems obvious that its
           | a bad idea.
        
             | Ygg2 wrote:
             | I wanted to see just how bad is raw Chrome experience on
             | Android. I've learned my lesson.
        
           | phoronixrly wrote:
           | Right there with you. I cannot understand how people manage
           | to use Chrome without an ad-blocker. It's just so slow and
           | makes my laptop heat up and run out of memory...
        
         | muizelaar wrote:
         | What parts felt unresponsive and slow?
        
         | uallo wrote:
         | > You can manually install uBlock and just continue using it
         | 
         | Only with Chrome 138 and lower. Chrome 139 will not support
         | Manifest V2 anymore.
         | 
         | https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...
         | 
         | Seriously, use Firefox if you want to use uBlock Origin.
        
           | sto11z wrote:
           | Oh! :/
        
             | aheckler wrote:
             | FWIW uBlock Origin Lite (the MV3 version of uBlock Origin)
             | seems pretty much just as good, at least to me.
             | 
             | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin-
             | lite/...
             | 
             | I don't use a ton of custom filters or rulesets though, so
             | YMMV.
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | https://www.quippd.com/writing/2024/10/16/google-is-
               | killing-...
        
       | jppj wrote:
       | tl;dr - how to Firefox? Blind taste test.
       | 
       | Had been using Arc for some time with several qualms about the UX
       | and after trying Dia and finding it's just yet another Chrome,
       | decided to see what Zen is like. I expected the same - but it
       | wasn't. All qualms were solved and I had no rendering problems.
       | 
       | It was only when I noticed the Mozilla login flow I realized I
       | had switched to Firefox - I had an assumption that all
       | alternative browsers are on Chromium now. Really lucky since if I
       | knew, I may not have given a fair chance given the rendering
       | problems I remember from giving it a try 3-4 years ago.
        
       | jasonvorhe wrote:
       | Firefox will never become strong again under Mozilla.
        
       | akhdanfadh wrote:
       | Firefox was my main browser after Chrome MV3 stuff, but now I'm
       | moving to Orion by Kagi. I found, on my Macbook M1, Firefox hog
       | the battery a lot seen from the energy impact on Mac's activity
       | monitor (average 12hr power >1000 compared to Orion ~350). Don't
       | expect extensions to work well on Orion, though, but I can live
       | with it for now.
        
         | SwiftyBug wrote:
         | It supports both Chrome and Firefox extensions. Vimium works
         | flawlessly.
        
       | nxtbl wrote:
       | .. and then there are panorama extensions, which ease handling a
       | lot of tabs immensely. No other browser seems to have anything
       | alike. No, the grouping of tabs into tabs does nothing compared
       | to this.
       | 
       | https://github.com/projectdelphai/panorama-tab-groups and
       | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/panorama-view...
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | First rule of Firefoxing: use a fork instead
        
       | sixhobbits wrote:
       | This is pretty similar to my set up but I'm ready to quit Firefox
       | because what feels like every few weeks they somehow manage to
       | add new auto-enabled spyware.
       | 
       | I regularly have to turn stuff off in
       | 
       | "Firefox Data Collection and Use"
       | 
       | and
       | 
       | "Website Advertising Preferences"
       | 
       | Recently I also started seeing ads in my address bar when typing
       | stuff and saw they've added:
       | 
       | "Suggestions from sponsors Support Firefox with occasional
       | sponsored suggestions."
       | 
       | of course, enabled by default.
       | 
       | Firefox is a great product but unfortunately slowly being
       | milked/destroyed by its non-technical management team.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > but I'm ready to quit Firefox because
         | 
         | This is still nowhere near Google's browser.
        
         | djrj477dhsnv wrote:
         | Easiest solution is to just use LibreWolf on desktop and
         | IronFox on Android.
         | 
         | They get rid of all the anti-privacy defaults.
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | Updates aren't supposed to reset any setting. Submit a bug
         | report for them to fix whatever is doing that for you:
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
        
       | jvdvegt wrote:
       | A bit ironic that I cannot see the left few pixels of that site
       | in Firefox on Android. (A 'T' starts at the vertical bar)
        
         | uallo wrote:
         | Why "ironic"? The website is using flexbox incorrectly, all
         | spec-compliant browsers have that behaviour on small viewports.
         | Using the "safe" keyword fixes that.
         | 
         | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/align-items...
        
         | sorcercode wrote:
         | sorry I'm not necessarily seeing this. could I ask for more
         | details ?
        
       | beshrkayali wrote:
       | The main problem Firefox has really is Mozilla. And Orion is neat
       | but too immature and the direction Kagi is taking in general
       | seems to be moving further away from a indie company with a
       | single purpose. I hope they manage to steer themselves back into
       | what got people excited about them to begin with.
       | 
       | But sure, anything but Chrome.
        
       | zac23or wrote:
       | I use Firefox, Chrome, and Edge on a Windows 10 machine.
       | 
       | I use Chrome 90% of the time because Firefox is slow and has many
       | bugs on video sites like 9gag. The screen goes black, the video
       | loses vertical sync, etc. The same happens with Edge.
       | 
       | In my experience, the problem with Firefox's popularity is
       | technical. I'll use Firefox more often if it improves. Before
       | Firefox 3.6 (probably that version), Firefox was my most used
       | browser, but after that version, Firefox started getting slower
       | and more buggy. I switched to Chrome because IE was unusable on
       | some sites.
       | 
       | I've never used Firefox much on Android, but when I did, it was
       | slower than Chrome.
       | 
       | It's likely that if Firefox fixes the issues, they'll gain
       | traction again, but right now, I don't see that happening.
       | Mozilla's goals are different.
        
         | marttt wrote:
         | > Before Firefox 3.6 (probably that version), Firefox was my
         | most used browser, but after that version, Firefox started
         | getting slower and more buggy.
         | 
         | Haha, I remember that same feeling, with 3.6 being "peak"
         | Firefox back in the day. My 3.6 was heavily hand-tailored to my
         | needs via about:config etc. Just some dedicated end-user here,
         | but I did know it very well. Version 4 felt considerably worse
         | on a WinXP system, some essential-to-me add-ons broke, etc. I
         | remember feeling really - as in, _really_ - frustrated when I
         | finally had to make the switch.
         | 
         | Apparently, 3.6 is the longest supported Firefox version ever,
         | 27 months:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_3.6#End_of_life
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | I seem to recall similarly about things starting to go
           | downhill after 4.x or so. Performance, optimization, and
           | stability seemed to take a back seat to flashier things like
           | new features and UI themes. It stopped being the lean, mean
           | minimal browser that it'd become famous as and turned into
           | something a lot more unremarkable (albeit, more flexible).
           | They wouldn't seriously prioritize performance again until
           | many years later with Quantum.
           | 
           | Looking at it that way, it's no mystery how it lost ground to
           | Chrome (though Google's marketing muscle is also largely
           | responsible). Mozilla just tossed Firefox's claim to fame out
           | the window and expected things to work out somehow, which is
           | a bit like a restaurant that'd become popular for its award
           | winning burgers deciding to pivot to the same dry turkey
           | sandwiches you can get at most of the restaurants in town.
           | Yeah, you're gonna lose customers.
        
         | phoronixrly wrote:
         | So after all of the things you outlined, you're still fine with
         | using Chrome _despite the ads_?
        
           | zac23or wrote:
           | Yes, in my case, for some sites like 9gag, Chrome is the only
           | browser that works!
           | 
           | Nothing is free, and ads are inevitable (Firefox makes money
           | from... ads). I don't think ads are the worst thing about the
           | internet.
           | 
           | Where I'm sure Firefox works without problems, I use it:
           | (hackernews, for example), OR on sites where ads are the
           | problem, pop-ups are the problem. I hope it improves so I can
           | use it more.
        
       | eclecticfrank wrote:
       | Lots of Firefox hate here, but little discussion about the
       | articles kicker, which is the exclusion of uBlock Origin from
       | Chrome.
       | 
       | I hope this will mean that in the long run Firefox (and other
       | secondary browsers) will gain more users again. For me, Firefox
       | is a solid piece of software. Works well in strict privacy mode,
       | with uBlock Origin and Multi-Account Containers.
        
         | bool3max wrote:
         | In the _long run_ Alphabet will find a way to bar non-vetted
         | browsers from accessing the Internet.
        
           | pivo wrote:
           | Perhaps, but I'm not giving up just yet.
        
           | IHLayman wrote:
           | Alphabet will definitely try to do that (within their
           | business interest and all that), but I still choose to
           | believe in the precept that "the net interprets censorship as
           | damage and routes around it", as old and outdated as that
           | sounds.
           | 
           | A number of my privacy-minded friends choose a bi-modal
           | approach: have two phones, one for work and one for personal.
           | They don't get the recent model (costing half as much), hold
           | onto the old phone for as long as they can, use one phone for
           | "required" apps (Okta, Slack, those websites that only work
           | on Chrome...) and the personal phone for everything else.
           | 
           | As annoying as it is, i think that compartmentalized
           | devices/accounts/apps are the only way forward.
        
           | kaszanka wrote:
           | Probably even non-vetted firmware-to-browser chains, by
           | requiring boot attestation to open a TLS connection or
           | something.
        
             | normalaccess wrote:
             | I'm dreading the day when this becomes required by the
             | government...
        
               | jorvi wrote:
               | With the ramping up of 18+ verification in Australia and
               | now Europe (and South Korea and China already having such
               | a programme for many years, including game time locks for
               | young people), yeah.
               | 
               | It doesn't seem that big a leap to connect the dots from
               | device attestation > web browser integrity > identity
               | verification > verified web access
               | 
               | There is actually a relatively old game series of the
               | 2000s called Bluesky Hacker Replay that has this as the
               | core element of its worldbuilding. Governments and
               | corporations became tired of the internet being overrun
               | with spam, viruses, porn and cyberterrorism and decide to
               | create an internet 2.0, tightly controlled by corporate
               | interests. Hackers persist on the old 1.0 internet called
               | the SwitchNet.
               | 
               | And really, when you think about it.. if you composed an
               | internet solely from the big name social media,
               | entertainment, work, food, news and knowledge services,
               | running atop Cloudflare who verifies everyone via
               | government ID, how many would really complain? 99% of
               | their internet time is already spent inside that bubble.
        
           | GeoAtreides wrote:
           | The future is now (actually 2 years ago):
           | https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/Web-Environment-
           | In...
        
           | prasadjoglekar wrote:
           | Hopefully in the slightly shorter run, they get broken up via
           | anti trust.
        
           | seanclayton wrote:
           | Some of us want a different world and believe it's possible.
        
           | psionides wrote:
           | How would they do that?
        
         | Twirrim wrote:
         | Multi-Account Containers is a major feature I can't sing the
         | praises for enough. I use it all the time, both to isolate
         | stuff to break cookie tracking, and to enable me to log into
         | things with two different accounts without opening a separate
         | browser, which happens more often than I'd have thought.
        
           | carlhjerpe wrote:
           | When I was doing IT support for ~50 SMBs I was using multi
           | account containers + temporary locations ALL THE TIME to log
           | into customer accounts in various places, now I don't really
           | have the usecase but the addons are still there for the rare
           | occasion.
        
           | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
           | > both to isolate stuff to break cookie tracking
           | 
           | You don't need containers for this: https://total-cookie-
           | protection-test.netlify.app/
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | There's a few pain points with containers; whenever I'm
           | browsing in a container tab, I wish CMD-T opened a new
           | container tab, not my default tab. I haven't been able to
           | find a setting for this :/
           | 
           | I also wish there were more keyboard shortcuts for opening
           | links in specific containers, or re-opening a current tab in
           | a different one.
           | 
           | I know you can set certain domains to always open in certain
           | containers - fine for Facebook, when I occasionally have to
           | use it - but annoying when I'm trying to do things in
           | different (e.g.) Bluesky accounts.
        
             | sorcercode wrote:
             | > I also wish there were more keyboard shortcuts for
             | opening links in specific containers, or re-opening a
             | current tab in a different one.
             | 
             | fwiw, there are add-ons that allow you to do this - in one
             | way or the other (Container Hotkeys
             | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/container-
             | hot... for example).
             | 
             | but out of curiosity,
             | 
             | > I know you can set certain domains to always open in
             | certain containers - fine for Facebook, when I occasionally
             | have to use it - but annoying when I'm trying to do things
             | in different (e.g.) Bluesky accounts.
             | 
             | on this one btw, the Containerise extension i talk about
             | (if it wasn't clear) allows you to also map "portions" of
             | the url in specific containers. so /u/0 in one /u/1 in
             | another; ofc, this requires the service/website to
             | distinguish the accounts via the url. i do this for github
             | a lot (work repos in specific containers)
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | Very cool, thank you - I'll check out the hotkeys add-on!
               | 
               | The other extension won't work for me, mostly - for
               | example, Bluesky doesn't give me different URLs depending
               | on who I'm logged in as. (Which is the correct thing to
               | do, but it does make my life slightly harder. :/)
               | 
               | edit: oh, nevermind. It looks like it adds a single
               | hotkey to open a new tab in a single, specified
               | container. I was at least hoping the hotkey would work by
               | opening a new tab in the same container I'm in currently
               | :/
        
             | ddejohn wrote:
             | Not having subdomains work for container assignments is a
             | baffling design decision. It's a well-known issue and oft-
             | requested feature that the devs seemingly have no plan to
             | fix. It's incredibly frustrating.
             | 
             | > whenever I'm browsing in a container tab, I wish CMD-T
             | opened a new container tab
             | 
             | Not exactly what you're looking for, but Temporary
             | Containers (no longer maintained, fwiw) at least will open
             | every new tab in a new temporary container that will be
             | wiped after a configurable amount of time after closing.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | On my list of concerns for big tech abusing power, the ad
         | company with the browser monopoly leveraging their position to
         | essentially end ad blocking on the web by disabling it on the
         | browser people are using in practice is very high on the list,
         | and I would have been fine waiting on forcing Apple to let you
         | uninstall the camera app, or switching the iPhone to USB-C if
         | it could have prevented this. This didn't come out of nowhere,
         | we've known about manifest v3 for years now.
         | 
         | In fact Google's browser monopoly only looks like it's gonna
         | get further cemented as Apple is forced to allow other browser
         | engines, which is the only thing keeping any sort of
         | competition against Chrome.
         | 
         | I feel like the anti-Apple snark that's been so popular since
         | around the late 2000s (and I took part in in my angsty teen
         | years) has been affecting the priority of what's being dealt
         | with from regulators and it annoys me.
        
           | beeflet wrote:
           | >which is the only thing keeping any sort of competition
           | against Chrome.
           | 
           | It's hardly competition. People complain about the safari
           | monopoly on iOS because it lags behind competitors and has
           | awful support for PWAs.
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | > Lots of Firefox hate here, but little discussion about the
         | articles kicker, which is the exclusion of uBlock Origin from
         | Chrome.
         | 
         | I'll complain about Firefox a lot, because I'm exposed to all
         | its issues. That doesn't mean I hate it: I see issues in all
         | products that I use, even the ones that are really useful or
         | essential. I'm sure I'm not unique in this aspect in the HN
         | crowd.
        
         | MattSayar wrote:
         | My experience with uBlock Origin Lite seems basically the same.
         | I also use NextDNS so that probably does a lot of heavy lifting
         | too
        
       | benterix wrote:
       | > The other line you see there? That one-liner blocks all those
       | "Sign in with Google?" pop-ups.
       | 
       | This is one of these tiny improvements that will save you a
       | second or two per website, but when you multiply it, it becomes
       | significant. Kudos to all the people who made it possible.
        
         | sbdaman wrote:
         | >but when you multiply it, it becomes significant.
         | 
         | Does it?
        
           | bmn__ wrote:
           | Yes, the concept is called "shut up and multiply". I estimate
           | the content-blocking counter-measure has saved hundreds of
           | man-years.
           | 
           | On the days I feel particularly nasty like Ellison's
           | character The Ticktockman, I wish that the programmers and
           | the product managers who are responsible for the
           | enshittification get this time subtracted from their life.
        
           | aembleton wrote:
           | Yes; and not having the visual noise is pleasant.
        
       | cainxinth wrote:
       | I switched after Manifest v3. I won't go back to Chrome as long
       | as it limits ad-blocking, but I do miss its speed.
       | 
       | Firefox takes a long time to open (especially when you have a lot
       | of extensions). Even with the same number of extensions, Chrome
       | opens in a jiffy. There are other areas of slowdown as well.
       | Sometimes I hit Control+D to bookmark a page and nothing happens.
       | At first I thought maybe I was doing something wrong, but now I
       | know to just wait, and sure enough five to ten seconds after I
       | hit the shortcut it works. A delay that long (especially one with
       | no notification of any kind) is really bad UX.
        
         | Vinnl wrote:
         | Oof, a delay that long should not happen. Might be worth
         | reporting at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org, ideally with a
         | profile attached (see https://profiler.firefox.com/)?
        
         | djrj477dhsnv wrote:
         | Unless you're running it on 15+ year old hardware, it sounds
         | like something is very wrong.
         | 
         | I've used Firefox / LibreWolf basically since it existed and
         | can't remember any UI delays longer than a second.
        
         | pixelesque wrote:
         | Note that Firefox for me within the last 3/4 months seems to
         | have (I assume it's by design?) changed to automatically add a
         | bookmark to the most-recently-added bookmark folder WITHOUT
         | asking which folder to use (it just adds a blue star in the
         | address bar) which is pretty annoying IMO and isn't the
         | behaviour I want 95% of the time.
         | 
         | Pressing Ctrl/Cmd-D a second time then does "Edit bookmark",
         | and allows you to change it.
         | 
         | Might that be contributing to what you're seeing? (blue star
         | appearing is fairly obvious though).
        
       | mattlutze wrote:
       | I am surprised how many people have so many problems with
       | Firefox.
       | 
       | I've never felt impeded by loading speeds, and my ADHD regularly
       | has me forgetting to restart it, to the tune of 100+ tabs open
       | across multiple desktops. My wimply little MacBook Pro doesn't
       | seem to mind.
       | 
       | The only downside I've found is that, because so many people just
       | default to "Chrome or nothing," there's occasionally sites that
       | have bugs because, like was the case in the 90s with Internet
       | Explorer, the site developers took the idiomatic Chrome way of
       | building a feature instead of something universal.
        
         | helij wrote:
         | In two decades of using it (yep) I never had an issue. I used
         | it on Linux, MacOS and Windows and I don't remember any issues
         | whatsoever.
        
           | behringer wrote:
           | Same here, although I've had a couple issues but I actually
           | contacted the website operator and over time they fixed the
           | issues (either that or firefox themselves fixed it). It never
           | hurts to reach out to tech support and ask for firefox
           | support!
        
         | phoronixrly wrote:
         | > I've never felt impeded by loading speeds
         | 
         | Even if this was an issue I had noticed (which I hadn't), now
         | that's out the door because no ad blocker in Chrome, so good
         | luck loading all the ads and trackers before getting your
         | content...
         | 
         | I can't believe people keep parroting that... Even if 'chrome
         | is faster and more responsive than firefox' was not a
         | controversial statement (and it very much is), 'chrome with ads
         | is fast' is outright laughable...
        
         | echoangle wrote:
         | > My wimply little MacBook Pro
         | 
         | How old is it? Is a MacBook Pro wimpy now?
        
           | creshal wrote:
           | A 2012 Macbook Pro is going to be, yeah.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | I used one quite recently. It's no wimp for web browsing.
             | Basically unnoticeable save for the constant warmth from
             | this machine. It is still 2.5ghz per core after all, that's
             | not a complete slouch.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | I'm about the same, I don't even know what the loading speeds
         | issue is about, I still remember Firefox Quantum beating the
         | daylights out of Chrome, and I don't know if Chrome ever fully
         | caught up to Quantum?
         | 
         | What's really funny is for ages Chrome would load the browser
         | window even if the whole browser UI wasn't done loading, and
         | sometime after Quantum, Firefox started doing the same trick to
         | make you feel as though it instantly runs.
         | 
         | I've been using Firefox for about 20 years or so, and I don't
         | regret it, but also I have not noticed a degrade in
         | performance. I'm using it on Linux so I don't know if that's
         | drastically different on a Mac these days.
        
           | voxic11 wrote:
           | Do you use Firefox for Android? I use it for the extension
           | support but its noticeably slower than Chrome on Android.
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | I'm on iOS, I guess I mainly use Firefox on Desktop, on iOS
             | there's no point in me using Firefox since its forced to
             | use Webkit under the covers.
        
               | grimgrin wrote:
               | firefox on all my devices for the simple pleasure of
               | sending tabs between devices
               | 
               | sometimes i'm reading something on phone and i "send to
               | all devices", i'll sure as shit see it again this way
               | 
               | (even librewolf allows you to continue doing this)
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | I browse with Orion (for ad blocking) but still have
               | Firefox installed because I can click Share -> Firefox ->
               | Send Tab. Maybe I stumble upon a video I want to watch
               | but not now. Maybe I stumble upon a long form article or
               | reference or something that just is shitty on a mobile
               | interface and I push it to the computer I'm literally
               | sitting next to while having my phone in hand too.
        
             | VHRanger wrote:
             | With ublock origin enabled on an android device I'd argue
             | it's rather much faster
        
               | efreak wrote:
               | The app itself is insanely slow to start up, and it
               | always has been. Try killing Firefox and Chrome, open the
               | browser via a link from another app and see how long it
               | takes for the page to start rendering. I suggest a page
               | with a different color background and nothing else.
               | Chrome is _always_ fast, while Firefox is almost always
               | very slow (pinning the app to my recent list helps on
               | Samsung devices, but isn 't available elsewhere)
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | Is Chrome being cached?
               | 
               | This is actually not a good test because there are a lot
               | of tricky and subtle things that can make the comparison
               | highly unfair. Smartphones will cache apps so that they
               | don't fully close. Then, if you do actually force kill
               | them they will start up in the background.
               | 
               | Are we surprised a Google phone caches the Google browser
               | which is considered to be a high priority app, commonly
               | used, and even the backbone of other apps?
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | >This is actually not a good test
               | 
               | It is a realistic user scenario, which in my opinion
               | makes it a good test. The real world performance is what
               | matters here. The user doesn't care if technically there
               | is some trick that is being used to "cheat."
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | > The user doesn't care if technically there is some
               | trick that is being used to "cheat."
               | 
               | You framed the "benchmark" around performance, not
               | perceived performance. Those are two very different
               | things. We're on HN, so don't be surprised when people
               | correct you or nitpick. Either accept the clarification
               | (if it is correct), clarify what you originally intended
               | to say (without being overly defensive), or move on.
               | 
               | Besides, if we're talking about average user, they're not
               | force closing apps and the phone should be caching the
               | most frequently used apps. So even then the test won't
               | mimic real world experience even if it's about
               | perception. Maybe initially, but not after sustained
               | usage. People usually normalize to whatever they're using
        
               | bobbob27 wrote:
               | Uhhh... he followed your own advice better than you did.
        
           | carlhjerpe wrote:
           | I don't have anything but anecdotal experience here, but I
           | think Google Chrome was gaming Windows Defender better for
           | awhile, when Windows Defender treats you poorly IO grinds to
           | a halt and then some.
           | 
           | I've never had Firefox issues on Linux.
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | > I've never had Firefox issues on Linux.
             | 
             | My experience on Linux running on very old hardware (4th
             | Gen Intel) is also good. Firefox feels quick and snappy. It
             | uses a reasonable amount of resources, and has a relatively
             | modest memory footprint by modern browser standards. In
             | comparison, Chromium makes my fans spin on every site and
             | eats several GB of memory.
             | 
             | The annoying part of Firefox is that development seems a
             | bit stagnant in some areas, especially taking into
             | consideration the amount of resources Mozilla has. For
             | example, bookmarks and history still rely on a very old
             | native UI that is quite clunky. Customization via user.js
             | is too imperative and most options are largely
             | undocumented.
        
               | carlhjerpe wrote:
               | And no standard way to configure extensions is something
               | I feel they could spearhead. Ofc extensions can store
               | state however it wants, but more often than not I'm quite
               | fond of my extension settings.
        
             | porphyra wrote:
             | I've had various Firefox issues on Linux such as mysterious
             | bad frame rate that I wasn't able to track down (despite
             | toggling every feature related to gpu acceleration in
             | about:flags), slow startup (which I found was due to some
             | dbus configuration), and inability to print (apparmor
             | blocked cups).
        
               | carlhjerpe wrote:
               | I'm certain people have issues, especially when you stick
               | NVIDIA into the mix. I do always run rolling release
               | software on "older"/well supported hardware with good
               | drivers. (And I trust Firefox enough to not sandbox it
               | though Flatpak or snaps)
               | 
               | It's just an anecdote, but I've had several FF issues on
               | Windows, might be a timeline thing however.
        
               | porphyra wrote:
               | Yes I hate how Ubuntu sandboxes firefox by default (even
               | when you install it via apt, it secretly installs the
               | snap instead). Terrible. I eventually had to use a PPA
               | just to get firefox.
               | 
               | Also, Nvidia is non-negotiable due to performance
               | requirements and local deep learning experiments. I think
               | Nvidia has gotten a lot better lately, even Sway (Wayland
               | window manager) works these days. Incidentally I think
               | the bad firefox framerates were only on i3 and not on
               | Sway.
        
               | carlhjerpe wrote:
               | I'm docking my NVIDIA GPU with the vfio driver and have
               | an Intel cheapest dGPU for my desktop.
               | 
               | Then i attach the NVIDIA GPU to either a Windows VM or a
               | NixOS one for gaming or "work".
               | 
               | It takes space and PCIe lanes to do so however, so I run
               | SATA6 drives still :)
               | 
               | But if you can splurge, having multiple GPUs isn't
               | unreasonable, as "Postgrest" docs says(0): Use a
               | collection of sharp tools rather than building a big ball
               | of mud.
               | 
               | 0: https://docs.postgrest.org/en/v13/index.html#one-
               | thing-well
        
               | porphyra wrote:
               | I used to have both an AMD GPU and an Nvidia GPU and also
               | dual boot Linux and Windows. But that is an incredible
               | hassle. Nowadays, Nvidia on Linux works pretty well, and
               | gaming on Linux on Steam often works flawlessly with one
               | click, so it's more like a Swiss army knife rather than a
               | big ball of mud.
        
               | carlhjerpe wrote:
               | I never dualboot, Linux runs my hardware. I just pass my
               | NVIDIA GPU between different VMs.
               | 
               | I also wrote a little Python script that uses evdev to
               | capture a numpad I bought and bind keys to different
               | scripts that bind and unbind USB devices from my VMs for
               | gaming.
               | 
               | I run sound though QEMU and pipewire and I get 45ms
               | headphones to mic latency (measured with audacity) so
               | slightly below 23ms latency. (I get essentially half
               | doing the same measurement in Linux)
               | 
               | Virtualisation is a "out in the open" superpower.
        
               | dhruvmittal wrote:
               | Nvidia is really the one hurdle preventing me from fully
               | embracing firefox-- I've had a lot of trouble getting
               | hardware acceleration on Wayland with Nvidia drivers. At
               | this point, I'm not sure if it's a configuration issue or
               | if it doesn't work at all.
        
               | crmi wrote:
               | Debian? I noticed this too, switched from using LTS
               | version to latest - much better. On arch, no FF issues at
               | all.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | What I've found recently is that Linux is surprisingly
           | Firefox's achilles' heel. Canvas and WebGL run easily an
           | order of magnitude slower than Chromium.
           | 
           | Check with https://webglsamples.org if you don't believe it.
           | All of it runs capped at 60 fps on Chrome for me, Firefox
           | struggles to break 30 on mid tier settings in aquarium and
           | stutters horribly throughout most of them. I'm sure it's fast
           | at loading static sites, but I wouldn't ever use it to run
           | any web app. On Windows they're both the same though, which
           | is weird to me.
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | I'll test it when I get home, I'm really curious, I've not
             | noticed a slowdown, I am using Arch so I'm not sure if that
             | makes a meaningful difference.
        
             | h3lp wrote:
             | thanks for the benchmark tip. FWIW, firefox 140.0.4 on
             | Fedora 42 runs pretty much all tests at 60 fps or
             | therebouts.
        
             | mook wrote:
             | I note that the GitHub org has two public members, one of
             | which is from Google:
             | https://github.com/orgs/WebGLSamples/people
             | 
             | Google's been doing advocacy where they do things that
             | either only work on Chrome or just magically works faster
             | there, for a very long time.
        
             | doph wrote:
             | I didn't believe it and after trying those samples, I still
             | don't. All of them run flawlessly for me on FF 104.0.4 on
             | an up-to-date Arch install on my laptop.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Wayland or X11? I'm on Kubuntu and from what I remember
               | reading a while back it may be Firefox using something
               | native on X11 that Chrome rolls its own thing for, but I
               | may be misremembering.
        
             | funcDropShadow wrote:
             | I've tried perhaps one third of the samples. All of them
             | ran in 120 fps in 3840x2160 px in Firefox on Linux on my
             | machine. Perhaps it is a configuration problem. My screen
             | has a 120 fps refresh rate, so it probably is capped there.
        
             | eloisant wrote:
             | I've been using Firefox since it was called Firebird, and
             | Linux has always been a 2nd zone citizen.
             | 
             | Most Mozilla developers are on Mac, most users are on
             | Windows, so Linux have never been the focus.
        
             | stuaxo wrote:
             | The recently work with DMABUF on Linux might help a lot of
             | things get faster.
        
             | phil294 wrote:
             | I ran some of these in comparison with Chrome, and Chrome
             | was consistently faster, but only marginally (1-20%). I'm
             | actually quite impressed, an integrated Intel HD 620 /
             | 4x2.4 GHz (!) rendering 10,000 fishes at 30 FPS in a
             | webbrowser.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | For reference my numbers are for an RTX 4070, Firefox has
               | no excuse for not being able to crack 60 fps on a demo
               | that looks like it's from the late 2000s in terms of
               | graphics.
        
               | Xss3 wrote:
               | Sounds like hardware acceleration isnt working?
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | I'm running Gazebo at 10 times realtime and inference
               | through cuda, trust me it's working. If Firefox doesn't
               | take advantage of it that's its problem. I've enabled
               | every config setting for acceleration I could find.
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | Isn't the fps capping? I'm pretty confident it is because
               | it won't go above that on my system even when I do a
               | trivial number of fish and my monitor maxes out at
               | 60fps...                 > on a demo that looks like it's
               | from the late 2000
               | 
               | Okay... now I think I shouldn't take you seriously...
               | 
               | The literal visual aesthetics aren't really important for
               | the test. You could place some nicer shaders and it
               | wouldn't necessarily change the compute load. Hell, it
               | could just be highly unoptimized. Benchmarks are mostly
               | about having something static to test, not making
               | something visually pleasing.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | I'm half kidding, it's entirely possible to overload any
               | GPU with too many draw calls with the end result not
               | looking like much. These fish would run reasonably well
               | on something from that era though I'm sure, it's no GTA
               | San Andreas.
               | 
               | But no it's not capped at 30, it jumps to like 33, 34
               | sometimes with those settings, it's capped to 60 like
               | Chrome as well. Probably vsync.
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | You said 60 before so thats why I thought it was capped.
               | Which matches what I'm seeing when I run the tests as
               | well as others
        
               | rypskar wrote:
               | Is your screen 60Hz? Game loops are normally using
               | requestAnimationFrame [0], which is capped at refresh
               | rate of your display
               | 
               | [0]https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
               | US/docs/Web/API/Window/requ...
        
             | efreak wrote:
             | Try indexeddb. Apparently Firefox is faster than Chrome in
             | recent years when it comes to putting items into a
             | database, but my experience with multi-gigabyte databases
             | (the database contains image blobs and metadata for use as
             | a local webapp) is that chrome is _far_ faster than
             | Firefox. I 'd rather use Firefox sure to increased
             | indexeddb limits (for mobile devices with limited storage),
             | but it's just that much slower. I have a chrome-based
             | browser installed on my phone just for PWA use.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Hmm that might also be contributing to dogshit Firefox
               | performance on a web app of mine, I'm using that to store
               | and fetch map tiles. Though that's all async so it
               | shouldn't really matter in terms of rendering aside from
               | having to wait a bit longer to retrieve.
               | 
               | But it already lags like fuck even without that part
               | running or anything much at all, while being buttersmooth
               | on Chrome almost regardless of how much I load up
               | rendering. It infuriates me to hell because there is no
               | optimization I can make to get equal or even usable
               | performance.
        
             | godelski wrote:
             | I'm having a different experience.
             | Aquarium: 60fps until 20k fish, where I hit 50fps. 30k at
             | 34fps       Blobs: maxed out resolution and number of
             | blobs, still 60fps       Field: 60fps at "lots"
             | Fishtank: 60fps with 1k fish and sharks       Spacerocks:
             | 60fps on lots       Sprites: 60fps on 10k
             | 
             | System: - FF 140.0.4 - Kernel: 6.12.37 - CPU: AMD Ryzen 9
             | 5900X - NVIDIA 4080S (575.64) - 186 tabs open (mostly
             | YouTube. >20 active)
             | 
             | I get a bit worse on my M2 Macbook Air (128 tabs), but
             | pretty close results.
             | 
             | Maybe you need to open more tabs?
        
             | chao- wrote:
             | Adding some data points to the sibling comments:
             | 
             | Linux Mint 22 (X11 + Cinnamon)
             | 
             | Firefox 139.0.4
             | 
             | Integrated Graphics (AMD Ryzen 7 5800U)
             | 
             | At 1440p 60Hz monitor, every test that listed FPS showed
             | 60fps, and all others looked the same level of smoothness
             | as Chrome.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | Displaying the window early is more than a trick, it's a
           | properly better user experience.
        
         | thinkingtoilet wrote:
         | >I've never felt impeded by loading speeds
         | 
         | I honestly think it's just something people here like to
         | complain about. It's a complete non-issue. No everyday web
         | experience is even close to being noticeably different. Full
         | stop. It's almost like a meme, people say it because they think
         | they should say it. I would ask those people that are
         | complaining, what are you doing with all those extra
         | milliseconds you claim you're saving?
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | > what are you doing with all those extra milliseconds you
           | claim you're saving?
           | 
           | Watching more ads.
        
           | rs186 wrote:
           | When you have web pages that that completely freeze the
           | Firefox browser but work smoothly on Chrome, you won't call
           | it non-issue.
        
             | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
             | This doesn't seem to happen to me anymore, certainly not
             | since Quantum. Your experience may obviously differ. I've
             | been running FF for like twenty years now, across Windows,
             | Linux and Mac.
        
             | carlhjerpe wrote:
             | I don't know why I should lower my browsing standards to a
             | Chrome experience because a small percentage of websites
             | work poorly in Firefox. My password manager works in all
             | browsers so I have Chrome with only PW manager and uBlock
             | Lite so I can use it for the ONE website I use that doesn't
             | work in FF.
             | 
             | I don't think it's frustrating to press Ctrl+L, Ctrl+C,
             | $launcher-bind(Meta+D), Ctrl+L, Ctrl+V, Enter to open
             | another browser.
             | 
             | My average experience is a lot better with Firefox and
             | that's what I optimize for.
        
             | hunter-gatherer wrote:
             | I have been on Firefox for some years now on Mac, Linux,
             | Windows, and Android. Last year the IRS website had some
             | issues, but that seems to be resolved. Otherwise, I've had
             | zero breakages that cone to mind. I use ublock origin, and
             | pivacy badger, and a few other extensions. I wonder if
             | sometimes the issues people experience with firefox are
             | actually caused from their extensions???
             | 
             | If you haven't used Firefox in a minute, I recommend trying
             | it oht again.
        
             | thinkingtoilet wrote:
             | Name one.
        
               | xboxnolifes wrote:
               | Youtube will after a while.
        
               | brooke2k wrote:
               | I use youtube a worrying amount, all through firefox (and
               | I am also an ADHD 1000 tabs open person), and I have
               | never had this experience across multiple computers.
        
               | rererereferred wrote:
               | Youtube freezes for me on Windows with Firefox. Sometimes
               | it freezes the whole browser so added a rule to block it
               | in uBo and use another browser for it (which also helps
               | me reduce my time on youtube thanks to the added
               | friction). I don't know if its an issue with my specific
               | hardware or what. In Mac and Linux (different PC) it
               | works fine.
        
               | xboxnolifes wrote:
               | You need to keep the same youtube tab open and navigate
               | the website a considerable amount on it for it to occur.
               | I use the same tabs repeatedly, and by the end of the day
               | I get an incredibly sluggish site. Not the end of the
               | world, since I just close the tab and start a new one,
               | but it does exist.
               | 
               | Firefox has had documented issues with youtube for the
               | better part of a decade at least.
        
               | soupbowl wrote:
               | I have also had this Firefox YouTube issue.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | Lets see one then
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | I can't answer your question directly, as I haven't
           | experienced Firefox problems in a few years. In the past, I
           | experienced regular hangs and crashes.
           | 
           | There are a few point to unpacck here:                 -
           | Qualifying a statement with "Full stop" is a thought-
           | terminating cliche.       - Due to the different hardware,
           | operating systems, and use cases people have, peoples'
           | experience, and the problems they encounter vary between
           | users of PC software.       - Milliseconds as overhead to
           | startup may be irrelevant. Ms in most computing contexts is a
           | timescale to be concerned with, as it's relevant for latency,
           | cumulative operations, and responsiveness.
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | This isn't "most computing contexts", so that point is
             | irrelevant. You've already admitted the point "may be"
             | irrelevant (it is), so why bring it up.
        
             | wing-_-nuts wrote:
             | > - Qualifying a statement with "Full stop" is a thought-
             | terminating cliche.
             | 
             | Yeah, well I like it. Full stop.
        
             | thinkingtoilet wrote:
             | I've used Firefox with on Windows, iOS, and various linux
             | distributions with absolutely no day to day issues.
        
           | dewarrn1 wrote:
           | Yes, it's the Firefox version of Python's GIL.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | > Much of what we said about Web Extensions support on desktop
         | Orion stands, with further limitations in the scope of APIs we
         | can support which are imposed by Apple. This results in a
         | smaller number of extensions that are currently fully
         | functional on iOS and iPadOS.
         | 
         | This seems to say they do not expect to actually get to full
         | coverage on iOS like the author is talking about?
         | https://help.kagi.com/orion/browser-extensions/ios-ipados-ex...
        
         | shakna wrote:
         | I was surprised to hit this one today. Government department,
         | supporting exactly one browser on most people's main device.
         | 
         | https://www.ato.gov.au/online-services/technical-support/min...
        
         | hk1337 wrote:
         | > there's occasionally sites that have bugs because, like was
         | the case in the 90s with Internet Explorer
         | 
         | Hol up! Are you saying Chrome is the new Internet Explorer?
         | 
         | I'm being facetious...
         | 
         | If so, then I agree. I have said and thought for a long time a
         | lot of developers go all-in with everything google as if google
         | could do no wrong. In short, they have become that which they
         | swore to destroy.
        
         | warmedcookie wrote:
         | I will say that it is amusing that loading speeds is the
         | argument for sticking with Chrome. Chrome loads faster so that
         | you can see all of those ads faster and have to take the time
         | to close each one of them, hehe!
         | 
         | If the slop doesn't bother you, stick with Chrome. Plenty of
         | people still watch network/cable TV.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | Same, no problems here, in the almost 20 years I've been using
         | it.
         | 
         | Whenever I've used Chrome I find it weird and annoying. Which
         | just goes to show it's all down to what you're used to.
         | 
         | If people would just try switching they'd find it normal in
         | just a week or so. Are you really going to let Google control
         | your computing just because you can't stand the very mild
         | discomfort associated with change?
        
         | lucumo wrote:
         | > there's occasionally sites that have bugs because [...people
         | build for Chrome...]
         | 
         | I hear that a lot, but when I tried Firefox for a couple of
         | months I only found that in a single case[1]. It's really not
         | something that happened to me at all. I did encounter issues
         | with ad blockers breaking sites. Disabling uBO helps quite
         | often on misbehaving sites, but it does so on Chrome as well.
         | 
         | > I am surprised how many people have so many problems with
         | Firefox.
         | 
         | I'm not really. Nor am I surprised it works for you and others.
         | It has been this way with Firefox for all of its 20+ years of
         | existence. In its history it made one big leap in that,
         | somewhat ironically given current affairs, when they removed
         | XUL extensions.
         | 
         | But Firefox has always had weird, unexplainable and
         | unreproducible failure scenarios. Some of that is because of
         | its customizability, but also nobody really cares about it.[2]
         | The standard advice of "throw away your profile and try again"
         | is a huge fuck you to users. 1) People have spend time
         | customizing their browser and throwing that away hurts. 2) It
         | doesn't help anybody. If it's still broken you know nothing,
         | and if it isn't you still don't know what caused it.
         | 
         | I guess that was okay in 2004. Lots of software had weird bugs.
         | Nowadays the competition is much more stable.
         | 
         | For me, I dropped Firefox again after a couple of months
         | fighting to get a stable sync working.[3] It just kept failing
         | on Android. The only resolution was to log out and log back in
         | again. Only for it to break in the next couple of hours. I did
         | the "commit profile suicide and rebirth" thing without a
         | solution.
         | 
         | Chrome's sync at least is very stable. Sometimes it falls an
         | hour or so behind. Not good, but so much better than Firefox.
         | 
         | [1] And that was intentional. Typical Google assholery. Google
         | Photos added (adds?) extra HTML to block right-click on photos
         | when a Firefox User-Agent was used. Using a UA switcher
         | extension "solved" it.
         | 
         | [2] Makers of software for power users so often forget to give
         | power users the tools to investigate issues themselves. It's
         | great you allow me to add so many extensions, how about a
         | detailed log to see which is misbehaving?
         | 
         | [3] Firefox's sync also has fewer features. Bookmarks don't get
         | synced, nor do extension settings.
        
           | lucumo wrote:
           | > Bookmarks don't get synced,
           | 
           | *Search engines. Bookmark sync works fine.
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | Compatibility bugs are rare but definitely occur. If a key
           | component of your workflow has bugs it can be hugely
           | inconvenient. For example Slack Huddles blocks Firefox
           | Firefox, if your team uses them regularly it is a big
           | productivity loss.
           | 
           | It is also very annoying when the first step of every
           | troubleshooting process is "Try using Google Chrome" and if
           | it works the consider your problem solved.
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | Bookmarks definitely sync with Firefox sync. I have the same
           | bookmarks on all of my devices.
           | 
           | Extension settings can sync, I don't know exactly if it is
           | opt-in or opt-out but some extensions do sync on desktop. The
           | mobile situation is definitely different, mobile doesn't sync
           | to desktop. I don't know if different mobile devices sync
           | with each other (I only have one).
        
         | mentalgear wrote:
         | 100 tabs? Step aside, buddy. I have currently around ~2000
         | tabs. Firefox is a beast.
        
         | vladvasiliu wrote:
         | I was in your boat up until a few days ago, when it randomly
         | decided in wouldn't load properly. I force quit it, and then it
         | forgot all my tabs. Now, it actually remembered what seemed
         | like the correct number of tabs, each with the correct
         | container, only the address was gone from every tab!
         | 
         | Other than that, it works well enough for me. My only beef is I
         | can't completely disable tabs, but I don't know of any
         | equivalent browser that can.
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | Are you on Linux?
           | 
           | In any case there should have been a List of Tabs backup file
           | ( cant remember what is was called ) and you can manually
           | replace it to recover your Tabs.
           | 
           | "About:unloads" allows you to manually unload all tabs.
        
         | bashkiddie wrote:
         | I am a heavy user of firefox and I am still unhappy with
         | mozillas policy.
         | 
         | * Firefox-Hello is a easy to pick example of a broken service
         | run by a 3rd party being imposed on users.
         | 
         | * Pocket is another service I never asked for.
         | 
         | * Instead of focusing on the browser, mozilla puts their effort
         | into an English language database.
         | 
         | It appears to me mozilla does not understand their target
         | audience.
         | 
         | Recently I tried to customize firefox for screen recording and
         | ran into lots of outdated documentation about userChrome.css
        
           | WorldMaker wrote:
           | Pocket is shutting down soon and fresh Firefox installs don't
           | install its extension any more.
        
             | deepsun wrote:
             | Which kinda makes sense. It was actually cool when it could
             | save webpages for later reading offline (camping,
             | airplane). Once it lost that feature, there's nothing left
             | but bookmarks.
        
               | GregWWalters wrote:
               | This is the most disappointing part for me--Pocket could
               | sync with Kobo e-readers for offline, e-paper reading
               | later. Great for traveling.
        
               | xcf_seetan wrote:
               | I have been using the extension SingleFile to save pages
               | for offline reading and archival for ages. I started
               | using it on the basis of reading something online and
               | later talk to someone about it and when i try to find it
               | again, it may be gone, dont find it, etc. So i started to
               | save all the relevant pages to have a local reference of
               | what i have read online.
        
           | exiguus wrote:
           | What is the reason for criticizing Mozilla for integrating a
           | new feature into their browser? Or am I misunderstanding the
           | term feature, and Pocket isn't a feature for you? I mean,
           | other browsers like Chrome have similar functionality.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Mozilla does a lot of projects that I don't really
           | understand, but I also don't really see anything wrong with
           | the browser.
           | 
           | The problem with the Internet is that people keep coming up
           | with new standards and sites keep getting infected by
           | JavaScript. Firefox itself has been fine for ages, it is just
           | connecting us to something that gets shittier every day.
        
         | raffael_de wrote:
         | Where does the article mention anything about loading speed?
        
         | exiguus wrote:
         | My take is that Firefox is not very effective at marketing. For
         | example, Chrome publishes articles like 'Chrome achieves
         | highest score ever on Speedometer' (2024) [1]. I haven't found
         | similar articles or any reliable scores for Firefox. Some
         | computer magazines suggest that Firefox is in second place
         | after Chrome in running Speedometer 3. For me, at least, it's
         | hard to find any specific numbers. Also, it's important to note
         | that Speedometer is a browser benchmark test developed by
         | WebKit, Firefox, and Chrome.
         | 
         | Also, i don't understand why people prefer google over open
         | source. And the sometimes disrespectful and destructive
         | criticism of Mozilla.
         | 
         | [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2025/06/chrome-achieves-highest-
         | sc...
        
           | Sayrus wrote:
           | Mozilla does sometimes. For instance 'Quick as a Fox: Firefox
           | keeps getting faster'[2] from 2023 and the related articles
           | in Mozilla Hacks[2]. They used to do that a lot more when
           | Quantum was all the hype and had some marketing performance
           | comparison[3] with Chrome a long time back. Recently, it
           | feels like Mozilla is dropping that type of marketing to
           | focus on the image of privacy and talk about some features.
           | 
           | [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/uncategorized/quick-as-a-fox-
           | fir...
           | 
           | [2] https://hacks.mozilla.org/2023/10/down-and-to-the-right-
           | fire...
           | 
           | [3] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/firefox-private-
           | browsing...
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | Interestingly I did much worse on my Linux FF (13.6) on
           | Speedometer3.1[0] than my M2 Air (29.6), though for the WebGL
           | benchmarks from above the Linux machine (which has
           | significantly more compute power) has no problems with the
           | WebGL tests and the Air does worse. Backbone and jQuery were
           | real killers for the Linux machine. Looks to be mostly
           | Adding100Items for Backbone and literally everything for
           | jQuery was half a magnitude slower.                 > Also, i
           | don't understand why people prefer google over open source.
           | And the sometimes disrespectful and destructive criticism of
           | Mozilla.
           | 
           | Certainly Mozilla deserves criticism. All companies do,
           | right?
           | 
           | But what I don't get is the passionate hate and how the
           | result often ends up being contradictory. Like complaining
           | about FF with that Mr Robot thing (yeah, bad move) and then
           | saying that's why they use Chrome (or some Chromium based
           | browser). It feels like calling someone an idiot for falling
           | face first into dog shit while you're sitting in a jacuzzi
           | full of it. Yeah, both situations are shitty, but come on...
           | there's a lot more shit in one of these...
           | 
           | [0] https://browserbench.org/Speedometer3.1
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | I use Firefox and Chrome to separate work from personal, and I
         | can tell you that I have to close and restart Firefox at least
         | once a day due to spinning fans and crawling performance,
         | whereas with Chrome it's about once a week.
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | I just switched from Firefox to Chromium and it is much faster.
         | I switch back and forth.
        
         | caycep wrote:
         | I half suspect w/ UBO, any Firefox slowdowns would still beat
         | Chrome with ads. I personally haven't had issues, I do actually
         | use safari as my main (Mac user), but Firefox gets a lot of use
         | on my Mac and PC and it hasn't been noticeably slower than
         | chrome for me.
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | > 100+ tabs open across multiple desktops. My wimply little
         | MacBook Pro doesn't seem to mind.
         | 
         | There's a bug on Linux where background windows continue
         | rendering, even if they're in an inactive workspace or not
         | visible in any other way. This _really_ hits performance, but
         | it doesn 't seem to be fixable due to some limitation on GTK3.
         | 
         | If I hide/resize my system status-bar, every single window gets
         | resized to match the new available screen space. Firefox re-
         | renders all content in all windows, causing multiple CPUs to
         | spike to 100%.
         | 
         | See: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1880467
         | 
         | In fact, there are _a lot of bugs_ which are basically
         | "unfixable due to limitations in GTK3". So the experience is
         | likely quite different that on other platforms.
         | 
         | Regrettably, there don't seem to by any plans to move away from
         | GTK in future.
        
           | Arnavion wrote:
           | Just an idea. In my SwayWM setup, a) I run every application
           | in its own cgroup (via systemd-run), and b) I have a daemon
           | that subscribes to window and workspace events, gets the
           | current tree, figures out the PIDs corresponding to invisible
           | vs visible windows, figures out the cgroups corresponding to
           | those PIDs, and then uses cgroup freezer file to freeze /
           | unfreeze them. Other than a few hard-coded exceptions that I
           | _want_ to run while invisible (IRC client etc), any invisible
           | application is transparently frozen and unfrozen.
           | 
           | For "single-instance applications" like firefox, launching a
           | new firefox while the existing one is frozen will hang, so
           | instead of launching /usr/bin/firefox directory I have an
           | intermediate ~/.local/bin/firefox script that unfreezes the
           | firefox cgroup and then exec's /usr/bin/firefox.
           | 
           | Of course if at least one FF window is visible then this
           | doesn't help with your problem, since the cgroup as a whole
           | will be unfrozen. It only helps if none of the FF windows are
           | visible.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | > my ADHD regularly has me forgetting to restart it, to the
         | tune of 100+ tabs open across multiple desktops.
         | 
         | My MacBook Air routinely will have 200-300 before I purge.
         | Getting better at keeping under 100 but yeah...
         | 
         | My Linux desktop is hooked up to my TV[0] and currently has
         | over 100 YouTube tabs open. I'm going to watch those math
         | videos, I swear, I'm just tired right now and so want to watch
         | garbage.
         | 
         | I do have ublock origin on both machines and some stricter
         | privacy settings, maybe that's it? But otherwise yeah, FF is
         | just as snappy as chrome. Which I do use regularly when on
         | other people's machines.
         | 
         | [0] it's a movie server, gaming machine, and for everything
         | else there's ssh and ydotool (I wish Apple would let me make
         | better iPhone scripts than Shortcuts allows. Shortcuts makes me
         | want to throw my phone against a wall...)
        
           | sinatra wrote:
           | I stopped having the same issue of 100s of tabs of "math
           | videos that I was going to watch one day" when I started
           | saving them in my private playlists. Now I just have 100s of
           | videos in playlists that I just look at longingly but never
           | watch.
        
             | godelski wrote:
             | lol I tried that once.
             | 
             | What works best for me now is to do my best at putting tabs
             | in the correct group tbh most gather while debugging and
             | then I can just kill the group when I'm done.
             | 
             | Problem is the ADHD and groups get contaminated. Mostly a
             | few casualties is actually fine but sometimes the group
             | gets too mixed. Eventually I nuke it all
        
         | consumer451 wrote:
         | There is only one website with a weird issue for me in Firefox:
         | chatgpt.com of all things.
         | 
         | When I open it and start typing, it resets the cursor position
         | to the beginning after I already typed a few words. I assume
         | this is some Next weirdness which requires a hack that only
         | happens to work in Chrome.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | A browser won't survive off the user share of HN Raspberry Pi
       | Guys.
       | 
       | Let's be practical, the average user isn't concerned about
       | browser monopolization. Firefox isn't going to catch up because
       | its users made some philanthropic choice to use it. This isn't
       | Linux, the web is far too complex to write a modern browser for
       | without corporate backing.
        
       | ubj wrote:
       | [EDIT]: I was wrong, uBlock Origin Lite was addressed by the
       | article and does not have the same features.
        
         | Vinnl wrote:
         | See the section in the article that starts with:
         | 
         | > Sure, there's uBlock Origin "Lite" now, which does the same
         | thing, right?
        
         | nxtbl wrote:
         | from TFA:                   Filter lists update only when the
         | extension updates, no fetching up to date lists from servers
         | (this is a big one!)              No custom filters, so no
         | element picker which allows you to point and zap
         | Many filters are dropped at conversion time due to MV3's
         | limited filter syntax              No strict-blocked pages
         | No per-site switches              No dynamic filtering
         | No importing external lists
        
           | aheckler wrote:
           | > No custom filters, so no element picker which allows you to
           | point and zap
           | 
           | > No per-site switches
           | 
           | These aren't accurate. My version of uBOL in Chrome
           | (2025.718.1921) has these features.
        
             | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
             | You're either not using uBlock Origin Lite or do not know
             | what the "per-site switches" are:
             | https://github.com/gorhill/ublock/wiki/Per-site-switches
        
       | vntok wrote:
       | I wonder how much posts like these do to push people away from
       | Firefox and towards other alternatives like Brave, Orion, etc.
       | 
       | Surely, given the HN audience, virtually nobody in here is
       | seriously discovering that Firefox exists. However, once the HN
       | reader's mind is set to move away from Chrome, the comments here
       | always push various alternatives to Firefox (mostly forks) that
       | might be unknown and interesting to try.
       | 
       | Another way to reason about it is such posts in such communities
       | probably don't pull a lot of "normies" to Firefox... however they
       | probably also push a lot of "nerds" to Firefox alternatives, not
       | to Firefox itself.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | I think the root of it is that crowd of nerds aren't
         | particularly interested in going back to Firefox. That they
         | have a new interest in getting off Chrome doesn't change that
         | as they already have a browser they aren't too thrilled with
         | installed and configured. The promise of some new variant that
         | does things right (tm) is the only thing interesting enough to
         | trigger a switch.
        
       | perlgeek wrote:
       | One of my main reasons for staying with Firefox is that in the
       | long term, I think it's good to have a diversity in browser
       | engines.
       | 
       | Back when I started web development, there were standards, but
       | nearly everybody just coded to what Internet Explorer supported.
       | Which I really hated :-)
       | 
       | In the past few years, I've seen the occasional "works best with
       | Chrome" website, which worries me, but so far it hasn't been too
       | bad.
       | 
       | But if we as a community leave the browser market to Chrome and
       | browsers with engines of similar origin as Chrome's, we'll get
       | back to the bad old days.
        
         | sebstefan wrote:
         | > In the past few years, I've seen the occasional "works best
         | with Chrome" website, which worries me, but so far it hasn't
         | been too bad.
         | 
         | Microphone & webcam support, screensharing and stuff like that
         | almost always shit the bed for me. Slack, teams, they don't
         | care to check if their shit works on firefox.
        
           | comprev wrote:
           | As Chrome has slowly become the default browser in enterprise
           | environments it makes sense to cater for the _paying_
           | customers of Slack, Teams, Jira, etc. and they become the
           | focus of product development.
           | 
           | It didn't feel that long ago when Internet Explorer was the
           | primary target for development.
        
       | FigurativeVoid wrote:
       | I had no idea how many ads load the average page. I just forgot
       | because I have been using uBlock for so long.
       | 
       | I have been hesitant to use Firefox, just because I am used to
       | chrome. But after Google forcibly disabled software that I chose
       | to run, I'm all in on Firefox.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | In a way, an ad company disabling adblock on their browser
         | makes perfect sense.
         | 
         | I'm happy they came around and showed the world what they're
         | made of: ads.
         | 
         | For anyone who doesn't like ads jammed down their throat and
         | their personal privacy blatantly sold off:
         | 
         | Google and Microsoft should be banned for obvious reasons.
        
         | crabmusket wrote:
         | Whenever I use my partner's iPhone, or even open links on
         | Chrome on my phone (I usually use Firefox with adblock) I feel
         | like I'm being slapped in the face by ads. The difference is
         | shocking.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Mobile web today is like going back to dialup with the time
           | it takes to load a damn article chock full of ads. Worthless.
           | So much for lite mobile websites. Hate browsing on the phone.
           | Only to be done when completely unavoidable.
        
           | athrowaway3z wrote:
           | A decade ago I used to see & hear various ads throughout my
           | day and could ignore them. Nowadays I see so few ads in a
           | month that my brain short circuits whenever somebody shows me
           | their phone with something like youtube and it shows ads.
        
         | hk1337 wrote:
         | Even using pihole you see this. I remember a post on reddit,
         | just about every comment was complaining about the ads and how
         | it made it unreadable but it looked just fine to me.
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | I pulled the trigger on a full Firefox migration a few months
         | ago because of ublock.
         | 
         | Google Chrome had browser change inertia going for it, nothing
         | else.
        
       | prophesi wrote:
       | A tip I would add to this article is that Firefox natively
       | supports sidebar tabs now without needing hacky extensions. Go to
       | about:preferences under the Browser Layout section of the General
       | tab, and select Vertical Tabs. The tab group functionality along
       | with Multi-Account Containers are a lot more useful under this
       | layout IMO.
        
         | kozinc wrote:
         | Tab Groups combined with Vertical tabs makes for a pretty
         | awesome experience
        
         | sulandor wrote:
         | > Firefox natively supports sidebar tabs now without needing
         | hacky extensions
         | 
         | glad you mentioned it!
         | 
         | edge and opera do too
        
         | sorcercode wrote:
         | appreciate it. funnily enough I thought I implied it with the
         | Arc mention. but rereading it, you're right, that fact doesn't
         | come through at all.
         | 
         | will make an edit
        
         | FeepingCreature wrote:
         | Still no multi-row tab bars or API support for hiding the main
         | tab bar, as was explicitly promised when they killed
         | TabMixPlus.
        
           | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
           | Power users interested in this niche feature can use a
           | script: https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1m594nv/mul
           | ti_tab_...
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | When was that added? I've been using "Tree Style Tab" for...
         | well, I guess it must be more than a year at this point.
         | 
         | Worth dropping the extension?
        
           | prophesi wrote:
           | You can't have nested tab groups so I imagine you'd want to
           | keep using that extension if that's what you're using it for.
        
       | helij wrote:
       | A lot of hate and bashing of Firefox here. On my Linux machine
       | (relatively modern desktop) there's no difference in speed
       | between Chrome(Chromium) and Firefox. A lot of people talk about
       | goodies and extensions. I get it, life is easier with some of
       | those but I just don't care. I use it barebones with enhanced
       | tracking protection and it works flawlessly. Don't see many ads,
       | the ones I see are not intrusive.
        
       | tolerance wrote:
       | Off topic but, what are people saying, feeling, about Bluesky
       | these days.
       | 
       | The comment section on this page integrated nice.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | It's fine, but it's still social media. If you don't have to
         | use it, I probably wouldn't.
        
           | tolerance wrote:
           | That about tells me all I need to know. Thanks.
        
       | sshine wrote:
       | I migrated from Firefox to Orion half a year ago.
       | 
       | I am now ready to migrate back, since Orion has UX problems that
       | aren't being addressed fast enough that are non-issues in
       | Firefox. And because I haven't found a replacement for Firefox
       | Sync that works as nicely (Vaultwarden is super nice, but the
       | Bitwarden browser plugins suck ass.) I still use Orion for iOS
       | because Firefox for iOS has such a broken memory consumption it
       | kills my phone if I open the app.
       | 
       | In those six months of not primarily using Firefox on Desktop,
       | it's been blocked by Cloudflare.
       | 
       | This is what happens when you lose market share below a certain
       | threshold.
       | 
       | I really hate Mozilla Corporation.
       | 
       | But Firefox is not theirs to enshittify.
       | 
       | I'm back on Firefox on desktop, and am still using Firefox as a
       | password store on iOS, since it doesn't start the app. So I can
       | still have one source of password sync.
       | 
       | I'd rather not visit websites that block off browsers for not
       | allowing them to track me. Sorry, guys, that's a shitty thing to
       | do. I get it, Cloudflare is addressing a bot problem.
        
       | FrankyHollywood wrote:
       | 'Reader view'! I use it on a daily basis.
       | 
       | Don't know if this is standard for any browser now, FF is my main
       | browser since I left Opera...
       | 
       | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-reader-view-clu...
        
         | rc_kas wrote:
         | This is indeed my favorite FireFox feature. Sometimes it even
         | helps get past article paywalls to read the article.
        
         | mortsnort wrote:
         | Chrome has it, but it's hidden in menus. Android has it as an
         | OS feature with a really unintuitive interface. It also fails
         | the first time you try to read any page, but works the second
         | time... It's clearly not something they want you to use.
        
           | cpeterso wrote:
           | True. Firefox's reader view is a one-click button in the
           | address bar, whereas Chrome's is buried in the application
           | menu > More tools > Reading mode. And even then, Chrome only
           | shows the reader view in a narrow sidebar, leaving the messy
           | page open.
        
       | sebzim4500 wrote:
       | >With Firefox for Android, you get seamless sync of tabs,
       | bookmarks, passwords between browser and phone
       | 
       | If only. In my experience this barely works in one direction and
       | doesn't work at all in the other direction.
        
       | ahmetcadirci25 wrote:
       | This is something that has been on my mind for years -- I want to
       | use Firefox, but for some strange reason, it just doesn't feel as
       | smooth as Chrome.
       | 
       | Here are the features of Firefox that I find particularly
       | appealing:
       | 
       | - The Firefox Multi-Account Containers feature, in my opinion, is
       | what puts this browser at the top.
       | 
       | - Additionally, the privacy extensions work incredibly well.
       | 
       | However, there are some drawbacks:
       | 
       | - Strangely, it doesn't feel smooth -- regardless of whether I'm
       | on Windows or macOS.
       | 
       | - I experience video codec issues, which I hope I'm not the only
       | one facing.
       | 
       | - I can't run the extensions I develop in dev mode. I haven't
       | been able to find a solution for this. That said, I don't
       | encounter this issue in LibreWolf.
       | 
       | I don't use Chrome; instead, I prefer Ungoogled-Chromium, as
       | Google is not a trustworthy company in my view -- both due to its
       | policies and many other problematic actions.
       | 
       | I'm truly grateful to the developers of Ungoogled-Chromium for
       | removing Google services and for keeping the browser consistently
       | updated.
       | 
       | I've tried all sorts of browsers like Vivaldi, Brave, and Orion,
       | but none of them feel smooth or stable to me -- at least, that's
       | how I perceive it.
       | 
       | I hope you might have some better suggestions.
       | 
       | https://tarayici.ahmetcadirci.com/
        
         | 0xpgm wrote:
         | > The Firefox Multi-Account Containers feature, in my opinion,
         | is what puts this browser at the top.
         | 
         | For a long time this was the reason I didn't move to Brave, but
         | eventually I realized I don't need it so much because Brave
         | already sandboxes cookies for each site so some social media or
         | ad network won't be able to track me across different sites.
         | 
         | The remaining use for multi-account containers now is staying
         | logged in with different accounts to the same site, which for
         | my usecase I can do with Brave profiles.
         | 
         | Now Brave is my major browser and once in a while I'll bring up
         | Librefox. Firefox lost me when they went all in with their
         | strategy to feed user data into AI presumably for ad purposes.
        
           | ahmetcadirci25 wrote:
           | I don't care about cookies at all -- what matters to me is
           | being able to log into multiple, separate accounts. Creating
           | browser profiles feels like starting everything from scratch:
           | settings, extensions, and more. It's just not practical.
           | 
           | With Firefox, you set your preferences and extensions once,
           | and from then on, tab-based profiles work flawlessly.
           | 
           | I wish Chrome had a similar feature -- a container system at
           | the tab level.
        
         | sebstefan wrote:
         | > - I can't run the extensions I develop in dev mode. I haven't
         | been able to find a solution for this. That said, I don't
         | encounter this issue in LibreWolf.
         | 
         | I don't have this problem. I was gonna type a long winded thing
         | to descrbe how I do it but since you managed to make it work in
         | LibreWolf it's likely not an issue with how you're doing it
         | 
         | >- I experience video codec issues, which I hope I'm not the
         | only one facing.
         | 
         | I haven't had that either
         | 
         | My bane is trying to make microphones/cameras work in video
         | calls on teams/slack/etc. When you open up the console they use
         | chrome-only javascript all over. They give no shit supporting
         | firefox.
        
           | ahmetcadirci25 wrote:
           | - In Librewolf, when I set the
           | `xpinstall.signatures.required` preference to `false` in the
           | `about:config` section, I'm able to install my `.xpi`
           | extension. However, this setting doesn't work in Firefox.
           | 
           | - The other issue was related to codecs. On Windows, I
           | encountered an error message saying: "No video with supported
           | format and MIME type found."
           | 
           | The issue was resolved after installing the following codecs
           | on Windows:
           | 
           | https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9mvzqvxjbq9v
           | 
           | https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9n4d0msmp0pt
        
             | sebstefan wrote:
             | >- The other issue was related to codecs. On Windows, I
             | encountered an error message saying: "No video with
             | supported format and MIME type found."
             | 
             | I did get that for a few days!
             | 
             | But then it went away. By itself.
        
             | kingosam wrote:
             | If I recall signatures.required is disabled in main firefox
             | for security reasons. You need Firefox Nightly or Firefox
             | Dev edition to use it. Anyway I changed to chrome for my
             | plugin.
             | 
             | Edit: found some info about it
             | 
             | > Setting xpinstall.signatures.required to false will not
             | work on the Beta or Release versions of Firefox on Mac or
             | Windows. Doing so has no effect. On Linux, depending on
             | your distribution, the setting may be respected and does
             | work on some distributions of the release version of
             | Firefox.
             | 
             | https://superuser.com/questions/1432789/all-of-my-firefox-
             | ad...
        
           | kingosam wrote:
           | > I don't have this problem. I was gonna type a long winded
           | thing to descrbe how I do it but since you managed to make it
           | work in LibreWolf it's likely not an issue with how you're
           | doing it
           | 
           | You're probably lucky that it's working, as it should be
           | disabled in the release version of firefox.
        
         | EbNar wrote:
         | > it just doesn't feel as smooth as Chrome
         | 
         | Because it isn't.
         | 
         | https://arewefastyet.com/win11/benchmarks/overview?numDays=6...
        
           | muizelaar wrote:
           | Which of those tests do you feel best measures smoothness?
        
             | EbNar wrote:
             | All of them, I guess. I don't/won't use FF anyway, so...
        
         | cptskippy wrote:
         | > I want to use Firefox, but for some strange reason, it just
         | doesn't feel as smooth as Chrome.
         | 
         | I think I know what you mean. I'm a Firefox user who
         | occasionally uses Chrome, and I generally don't like the way
         | Chromium feels. I feel similar differences between MacOS,
         | Windows, and Gnome.
         | 
         | Both browsers have different performance characteristics, sites
         | like Substack are much slower on Firefox than on Chrome. Other
         | sites feel like wading through molasses on Chrome. It varies
         | but it's 100% noticeable.
        
       | Torwald wrote:
       | > I want to do my part to convince you to switch to Firefox and
       | show you how I use it.
       | 
       | Last time I checked, the tab closed button was still on the right
       | side of the tab. On the macOS version. This is a deal breaker.
       | Therefore FF is useless to me as a Mac user.
       | 
       | Other browsers on the Mac have this correct. Safari, Opera,
       | Vivaldi at least.
       | 
       | Vivaldi is the other contender, who is at least on par if not
       | better with FF in terms of privacy.
       | 
       | Problematic privacy is of course the reason why Chrome wasn't
       | even installed on my machines ever. Opera and (arguably so) Brave
       | are the others with privacy endangering issues.
       | 
       | There are other Mac only options, but they have even worse
       | problems, being cloud dependent and whatnot.
       | 
       | I do like the concepts of what they are trying to do in most of
       | the cases, but for now I prefer the clarity of Safari.
       | 
       | Now, some of you might not be Mac developers, so let me say
       | something about app development on the Mac. There is a manual
       | with guidelines of how to do it. It is called the Human Interface
       | Guidelines (HIG) and that stuff is very important. It would be a
       | very interesting process to develop something like this for a
       | desktop Linux, btw.
       | 
       | When I have to work with apps that don't adhere to the HIG,
       | that's bad for productivity and enjoyment. So I don't.
       | 
       | In the case of FF I was willing to hack the UI CSS to correct the
       | button issue. Hey, it's FF after all. Two upgrades later, the
       | thing wasn't working any more. Ok, bye bye FF!
       | 
       | For a while FF was the most microsoftian app on my Mac, because
       | it always announced it's updates without me being able to silent
       | those notifications.
       | 
       | I am still watching, it's FF after all, but if Mozilla can't
       | correct these (actually minor) issues of keeping the UI clean, I
       | can't have it.
        
       | napkin wrote:
       | The author recommends this add-on- "Auto Tab Discard"- apparently
       | optimising tab memory management. Why wouldn't the standard
       | distribution adopt it?
       | 
       | I'm reminded of when I used to maintain an epic-sized vimrc,
       | compiled my kernel for a different IO scheduler, etc. The plight
       | of the "power-user" is walking a fine line between tool
       | refinement and over-complication (which in my case can stem from
       | procrastination).
       | 
       | There are many reasons to strive for a minimalist setup, main one
       | being that setting everything up from scratch shouldn't feel
       | exhausting.
       | 
       | That said... Firefox, with just uBO and a few basic privacy
       | settings tightened, is pretty great.
        
         | cmoski wrote:
         | I think it does. I had over a thousand tabs open on Firefox
         | mobile when I upgraded my phone recently.
        
         | sorcercode wrote:
         | honestly I've just left the extension on. Firefox does natively
         | have this feature now.
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | Browsers discard tabs by default, but only when your system is
         | running out of memory. You can use Auto Tab Discard to discard
         | all or most tabs automatically after a certain time.
        
       | SwiftyBug wrote:
       | One thing that keeps me on Firefox, that I've never seen another
       | browser implement, is per-tab profiles. Chrome and Safari also
       | have profiles, but they require one profile per window.
        
         | sfink wrote:
         | That's the "MAC" (Multi-Account Containers) that the article
         | was referring to.
         | 
         | (They're actually not full profiles, and in fact there's active
         | work right now to make separate profiles more ergonomic in
         | Firefox. Container tabs are way more useful for me, though.)
        
       | jcalvinowens wrote:
       | Maybe most people don't care, but the difference build times is
       | insane... Chromium takes nearly 4x as long to compile as _the
       | entire rest of a modern Linux system and it 's toolchain
       | combined_.
       | 
       | I completely stopped using chromium two years ago and haven't
       | looked back.
        
       | faxmeyourcode wrote:
       | Another very popular firefox addon that is yet to be replicated
       | in chrome - and for me personally is a chrome killer - is the
       | Tree Style Tabs addon.
       | 
       | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...
       | 
       | This is superior to most other vertical tab, tab groups, and the
       | many other tab styles that have been cooked up over the years on
       | other browsers.
        
         | GlitchRider47 wrote:
         | Do you (or anyone else reading) know of any way to make TST
         | feel like a more native feature? I've messed with the
         | userChrome.css but I hate that it has to be in the sidebar.
        
       | kamranjon wrote:
       | I just installed Firefox on iPhone hoping to install ublock, only
       | to realize that you can't and the reason you can't is because
       | Firefox on iOS is just WebKit with a different UI. This made me
       | wonder, given the recent rulings around the App Store, how has
       | Apple gotten away with basically banning every other browser
       | engine on their mobile platform but their own? Is there any
       | current court cases - or are iPhone users basically stuck?
        
         | temp0826 wrote:
         | Orion supports extensions on iOS, fwiw.
        
       | user070223 wrote:
       | I would also advise people to use user.js such as arkenfox /
       | betterfox.
       | 
       | Also available on mobile
       | 
       | https://github.com/yokoffing/Betterfox/issues/240
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | These so-called "hardening scripts" cause a lot of issues and
         | volunteers have to waste their time helping clueless users who
         | copied them without understanding what they do.
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | The issue with firefox is sites don't develop or test on firefox
       | and will outright just say use chrome/edge. e.g. on air india
       | can't buy tickets (must use chrome, actually a _lot_ of india
       | sites require chrome to just work), one of my work's agency
       | website literal says on login to use chrome or edge.
       | 
       | I mostly blame mozilla "leadership" for going off on ridiculous
       | directions and identity politics. They've reaped what they've
       | sown. It's only because of short term corporate profits that
       | chrome now has to claw back some ad revenue and by blocking
       | ublock, now firefox gets some users back. The problem is that
       | it's not new users.
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | Use this extension created by a Mozilla employee:
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/chrome-mask
        
           | OkayPhysicist wrote:
           | THANK YOU. I've been running a Chrome User-Agent for a few
           | years, but my highly-manually UA editing was obnoxious. This
           | is just what I needed.
        
       | antonymy wrote:
       | Been using Firefox since release. It's not as good as it once
       | was, but then, nothing is anymore, on the internet. Still
       | recommend it for every reason in this article. Honestly just UBo
       | is enough of a reason.
        
       | mg wrote:
       | There is one showstopper, why I can't recommend Firefox to
       | friends:
       | 
       | Mozilla's refusal to support the File System Access API.
       | 
       | With the File System Access API, we can _finally_ build local
       | first web applications.
       | 
       | I already wrote my own todo-list app and text editor and some
       | other more specialized apps that work nicely in Chrome (On
       | desktop and mobile). And I am in the process of writing a photo
       | gallery too.
       | 
       | One can build workarounds for Firefox with old-fashioned download
       | and upload buttons, but the user experience is miserable.
       | Directory based tools like a photo gallery (for local photos) are
       | not possible at all.
       | 
       | With the File System Access API, web apps feel just like local
       | productivity apps.
        
         | uallo wrote:
         | It, sadly, seems unrealistic to have that API with cross-
         | browser compatibility.
         | 
         | https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/154
         | 
         | https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/28
        
       | thomas_witt wrote:
       | One thing which is great are the built-in VPN containers. I
       | always have SSH tunnels with SOCKS proxies running and so I can
       | use for certain sites always a VPN. Or just open a new tab which
       | tunnels everything in THIS tab through the VPN. Great feature!
       | 
       | I switched (back) to firefox a while ago after Chrome was simply
       | super sluggish and slow on a MacStudio (!). Not having UBlock
       | Origin is the final killer. Firefox was always super snappy to me
       | and just does everything I want, in a very data-protective way.
       | 
       | Only downside (not Firefox'es fault) is that it can't use
       | Safari's private relay feature.
        
       | rd07 wrote:
       | If we are talking about clean firefox setup, I really like the
       | Firefox Gnome Theme (https://github.com/rafaelmardojai/firefox-
       | gnome-theme). It really integrates Firefox well with the rest of
       | GNOME apps.
        
       | hk1337 wrote:
       | At least three reasons why I prefer (reason I can think of right
       | now) that prefer Safari on macOS is the SMS/Messages integrations
       | for sites still using SMS for 2FA, pinch to show all tabs (useful
       | if you have a lot of tabs open for some reason), and private
       | browsing is exactly that, if I open Facebook in a private window
       | and login, open a new tab and go to Facebook, it doesn't
       | recognize that I am logged.
       | 
       | Other than that, I love Firefox. I switched an automation we had
       | using Chrome/Chromium to login to the site to Firefox because
       | every time the Chrome browser binary updated I had to download a
       | new version of the webdriver.
        
       | mig4ng wrote:
       | Shameless self-plug related to this, my uBlock Origin Filters
       | [1].
       | 
       | I want to add to this by saying I've been mainly using Firefox
       | for more than a decade now, and I highly prefer it to Chrome,
       | except for the Lighthouse feature to test page speed,
       | accessibility and such.
       | 
       | And as the post says, it now allows for vertical tabs (without
       | extensions) and you can even put vertical tabs on the right side.
       | Or collapse it when you want to focus on what you are reading.
       | Perfection.
       | 
       | The uBlock extra filters I use to avoid going down on doom
       | scrolling feeds.
       | 
       | [1] - https://github.com/mig4ng/ublock-origin-filters
        
       | CommenterPerson wrote:
       | Sorry. This article smells like a sales pitch. I used to use
       | Firefox but changed to Duckduckgo. Firefox had started to feel
       | enshittified. Learned most of Firefox funding comes from ..
       | g**gle.
        
       | gen2brain wrote:
       | I stopped using Firefox when they removed support for ALSA. I
       | think it is possible to compile with it, but the bin is just
       | PulseAudio. I don't want to compile it every week. That is my
       | only issue, and while I liked Firefox, but they are losing users
       | in a stupid way.
        
       | hshdhdhj4444 wrote:
       | I really like Firefox.
       | 
       | Unfortunately due to Apple's restrictions on ad blockers it's
       | become kind of unusable for me on iOS.
       | 
       | Is there a way to incorporate ad blocking on mobile Firefox on
       | iOS?
        
         | aembleton wrote:
         | Try using Orion. Its not Firefox but has uBO on iOS:
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/orion-browser-by-kagi/id148449...
        
       | elephanlemon wrote:
       | Switched to Firefox as soon as Chrome disabled UBO. Unfortunately
       | I found that after a day or so of Firefox being open, if I have
       | more than a few YouTube tabs open, the YouTube interface begins
       | to lag. I had read that the issue had been fixed but apparently
       | not. Switched to Brave and things are going well so far.
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | In Firefox you can right-click and Unload Tab which leaves the
         | tab as one you can return to but unloads all the JS (including
         | Service Workers) until you return to it. Firefox will auto-
         | unload tabs as you open more tabs, but for sites like YouTube
         | that do a lot of cross-tab chatter and have mega Service
         | Workers trying to do background stuff (they don't need to) all
         | of the time, it's nice to be able to Unload Tab directly from
         | the right-click menu.
        
       | morjom wrote:
       | I'll wait for the site-isolation to fully mature. Using Brave
       | until then.
        
       | ineptech wrote:
       | Another FF feature I love that I believe Chrome lacks: text
       | replacement in bookmarks. Add a bookmark with url
       | "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/%s" and keyword
       | "wp" and typing "wp Potato" in the url bar will take you to the
       | wikipedia entry on Potato.
       | 
       | I switched to FF a few years back I really do like it better, but
       | honestly even if it crashed every hour on the hour I'd still use
       | it over chrome for uBO alone.
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | Chrome has always had the capability of adding custom search
         | engines. They are just not entangled with your bookmarks.
         | 
         | Firefox is actually going to remove this feature from
         | bookmarks, and you'll have to create new engines from this
         | page: about:preferences#search
        
       | AnonC wrote:
       | This is a good list of why and how to get started with Firefox.
       | I've been a Firefox user since the days of Phoenix (and before?).
       | I use Firefox as my main browser at work, even though almost
       | everybody else uses Chrome or Edge.
       | 
       | One irritant I've seen with Firefox over the last several years
       | is that on Windows 10 it always crashes on quitting. I've
       | submitted all the crash reports religiously and have briefly
       | looked at some of the bugle bugs that they're linked to. As per
       | suggestions online I've even disabled history clearing on exit.
       | But it doesn't seem like there's enough focus on reducing the
       | crashes. Where I'm not doing enough is to run it in safe mode and
       | figuring out what happens. I don't have the time and energy to do
       | that. So I'll continue submitting the crash reports in the hopes
       | that the different causes get addressed and make it more robust.
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | File an issue on Bugzilla with your latest crash ID to help the
         | developers fix it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
        
         | sfink wrote:
         | Submitting crash reports is valuable, but mostly they'll be
         | used in the aggregate. If you have a reproducible crash, please
         | file a bug (and link some of your crash reports in it).
         | 
         | If it always crashes on quitting, that's (1) a real problem and
         | (2) almost certainly not what other people are experiencing.
         | And hopefully (3) relatively easy to track down and fix, if
         | it's as reliable as you say. Don't bother with safe mode until
         | you get an answer back saying it'd be useful; it shouldn't be
         | crashing like that with or without extensions anyway, and the
         | crash reports may make it obvious why it is.
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | Chrome hasn't truly 'pulled the trigger' until:
       | 
       | * You can no longer enable manifest V2 extensions using
       | chrome://flags switches (You still can _for now_ )
       | 
       | * You can no longer download the extension from the Chrome Web
       | Store on a version of Chrome/Chromium which supports MV2
       | extensions.
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | Currently, Firefox has a system RAM leak for the GPU process. You
       | need to periodically go to about:processes, scroll down to the
       | GPU process, and close the GPU process with the X button on the
       | right column.
        
         | ReadCarlBarks wrote:
         | If you want them to fix it:
         | 
         | 1) Generate a profile performance with
         | https://profiler.firefox.com/
         | 
         | 2) Submit the link with your results to
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
        
           | Dwedit wrote:
           | Already made the bug report.
        
       | mixmastamyk wrote:
       | If you're having performance issues with firefox and thunderbird,
       | I recommend vacuuming the sqlite files under your profile.
       | Compacting mailbox helps TB as well.
        
       | elgolem89 wrote:
       | Just use Brave, is much better
        
       | sc077y wrote:
       | I tried Multi-Account Containers to try isolate my work from my
       | personal but it just wasn't good enough. History, bookmarks,
       | passwords and plugins were all shared. Do I really need twitch
       | emotes and every personal password on my work environment? No.
       | What I found as a solution was `about:profiles` and creating a
       | separate profile with a distinct theme to tell the envs apart,
       | and to sync I had to add a different Firefox account but it all
       | works quite well.
        
         | cpeterso wrote:
         | Mozilla shipped an easier-to-use profile manager in Firefox
         | 138. Here are instructions for enabling it:
         | 
         | https://allthings.how/use-the-new-updated-profile-manager-in...
        
       | postflopclarity wrote:
       | I switched to chrome just this week. firefox is so insanely slow
       | for me
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | Having tested uMatrix and uBlock Origin for years, and having
       | tried many other Firefox extensions, IMO the best Firefox
       | advantage is neither of those nor any other extension. It is a
       | rarely discussed about:config option called
       | 
       | network.dns.forceResolve
       | 
       | Chrome desktop also has something like this, but it's a command-
       | line option. Firefox OTOH allows one to select a global domain-
       | to-IP mapping while the browser is running.
       | 
       | uMatrix and uBlock are IMHO designed for graphical browsers and
       | the graphical www. For me, graphics are secondary, not a
       | priority. I can get better (easier) control over HTTP requests
       | and real-time transparency into TLS traffic through a forward
       | proxy.
       | 
       | Firefox is still massive overkill for me. Ridiculously large and
       | complicated. No doubt there are people who are comfortable and
       | pleased with this sort of complexity. Glad they like it, but I am
       | not one of those people.
       | 
       | Unlike Chromium or Firefox the relatively small and simple
       | software I use to extract information from the web can be
       | compiled in seconds on inexpensive hardware. The speeds of "no-
       | browser" (HTTP generator plus TCP client) or the text-only
       | browser I use easily beat any graphical, Javascript-running
       | browser. Better control over HTTP headers, cookies and real-time,
       | configurable logging. Not only that but I can process large,
       | catenated HTML files that make the complex, popular browsers
       | stall and choke.
       | 
       | If the goal is to achieve some customised graphical
       | representation of a complex website, I think uBlock Origin and
       | uMatrix are unmatched. But if the goal is "blocking", i.e., only
       | making the HTTP requests that the user intends, and controlling
       | the content of those requests, without regard for graphics, then
       | I think I do better with the foward proxy.
        
         | hundchenkatze wrote:
         | I'd love to hear more about your setup, and how you access the
         | web.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | I dabbled in the cli browser space but a lot was left to be
         | desired due to the state of the modern web. I was having
         | trouble with HN threads even. They would lose indentation
         | structure for the comments and appear all one after another.
         | Mostly dabbled in links and w3
        
           | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
           | I actually dislike the indented structure. I disable tables
           | in links.
           | 
           | Non-hyperlinked HN can also be retrieved and read without
           | using a browser, e.g., using the Firebase JSON endpoint. I
           | can filter the JSON into formatted text the way I like it.
           | 
           | For anything other than reading, I can use the command line:
           | short shell scripts I wrote for retrieving, submitting,
           | replying and editing.
           | 
           | I also filter HTML to SQL and have the HN pages^1 stored in
           | SQLite database. I prefer searching (not fulltext) using
           | sqlite3 over using Algolia.
           | 
           | 1. Fields are: id,status,url,title,points,user,time,comments
           | 
           | For me, the whole idea of not using a popular browser is that
           | is is _different_. As I mentioned, these smaller programs can
           | be more robust and can handle many MBs of HTML at a time
           | without a hiccup. There is no auto-loading of resources, no
           | CSS or Javascript. There are no "web sockets". The web
           | developer's control is minimised and the computer owner's
           | control is maximised. All websites look more or less the
           | same. That's a feature not a bug, IMHO.
           | 
           | If I wanted to try to recreate what so-called "modern"
           | browsers do, potentially giving control over one's entire
           | computer to "web developers", then I would not be making HTTP
           | requests outside the browser and using a text-only browser to
           | read HTML.
           | 
           | At this point I am heavily biased. I have been reading text
           | on a black, textmode screen (no X11) for so long that the
           | color and indentation on HN threads in a graphical browser is
           | ugly to me. Perhaps it is difficult for a graphical browser
           | user to switch to a text-only browser for reading HN because,
           | if nothing else, it is so unfamiliar. It is certainly
           | difficult for me to switch from a text-only HTML reader to a
           | graphical browser for reading HN. It is very awkward.
           | 
           | As a text-only www user, I find that the so-called "modern"
           | web is continually becoming _more_ not less text-friendly.
           | (Many HN commenters complain about so-called "SPAs", I
           | welcome them.) Because, in general, more and more websites
           | and every "web app", have a resource serving plain text,
           | usually JSON, sometimes CSV, XML, GraphQL, etc. The early www
           | had text files, and I still like the old formatting that was
           | used back then, but the text was not as structured as what I
           | get today.
        
       | mvdtnz wrote:
       | To this day Firefox refuses to let me use credit card autofill on
       | Android. I know this feature exists and I suspect it's locked to
       | some geographical regions. It pisses me off to be a second class
       | citizen on the same software as my American counsins. The feature
       | is present on desktop, just not mobile.
        
       | bramhaag wrote:
       | I wish Firefox wasn't so insecure.
       | 
       | On Android, although a built-in isolatedProcess API [1] is
       | available for them to use, there is no sandboxing. No sandboxing
       | on the web in 2025 (!!!). This has been an issue for so many
       | years, yet Mozilla refuses to address it [2]. Chromium does do
       | proper sandboxing on Android, and additionally restricts what
       | syscalls a process can access. Other alternatives, such as
       | Vanadium have even stronger sandbox implementations [3]
       | 
       | On desktop, it's a similar story. Site isolation has had numerous
       | bad issues that haven't been fixed for many years [4][5][6], and
       | especially the Linux builds have had bad sandbox escape
       | vulnerabilities that Chromium is not susceptible to. This is
       | mostly due to architectural differences, like [7] and [8].
       | 
       | The idea of someone being able to take over your computer by just
       | visiting a site is scary. It's beyond me why Mozilla does not
       | prioritise security over yet another sidequest that will slowly
       | bankrupt them.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/manifest/service-...
       | 
       | [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1565196
       | 
       | [3] https://grapheneos.org/usage#web-browsing
       | 
       | [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505832
       | 
       | [5] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1484019
       | 
       | [6] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1707955
       | 
       | [7] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1653444
       | 
       | [8] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1322426
        
         | dblohm7 wrote:
         | (Former Mozilla engineer)
         | 
         | Your complaints about Android are valid (I should know, I used
         | to work on trying to get Android sandboxed), but site isolation
         | on desktop has been out for a long time.
         | 
         | Respectfully, posting a bunch of bug numbers whose context you
         | aren't familiar with is not a valid representation of the state
         | of things.
        
         | sfink wrote:
         | Thanks for posting the links, it makes it a lot easier to vet
         | your claims.
         | 
         | > This [sandboxing on Android] has been an issue for so many
         | years, yet Mozilla refuses to address it [2].
         | 
         | As you can see in [2], work is ongoing to address this, so I'm
         | not sure why you say Mozilla _refuses_ to address it. Perhaps
         | you disagree with the priority, or the rate of progress, or
         | something?
         | 
         | > Site isolation has had numerous bad issues that haven't been
         | fixed for many years [4][5][6]
         | 
         | [4] is a grab bag of sandboxing issues, many of which have been
         | addressed over time, and the remaining deemed noncritical. Read
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505832#c3 for
         | yourself. Perhaps you disagree with the assessment.
         | 
         | [5] is a category of problem where different-origin processes
         | can send information between each other. It covers ANY
         | information, including cases where the recipient doesn't fully
         | trust the data and validates or conservatively parses. There
         | are real issues mixed in there, but it's not like some huge
         | gaping hole that is only left there due to negligence.
         | 
         | [6] is irrelevant on desktop. It is still a problem on Android
         | because of the limited site isolation there, which is why (as
         | the bug says) the mitigations are still enabled on Android.
         | 
         | Chrome's sandboxing _is_ stronger than Firefox 's in several
         | respects. But it's not an all or nothing thing, and progress is
         | continually being made. (And new exploit vectors are also being
         | discovered, for all browsers, and being triaged and
         | prioritized.)
         | 
         | The architectural issues are real but not fundamental. [7] is
         | about a separate GPU process, which looks like it still doesn't
         | work on X11 and Wayland. [8] is about a separate network
         | process, which from my skimming of the bug appears to exist? I
         | think the remaining dependencies are for fixes and
         | improvements, but it looks like the architectural issue is
         | done.
         | 
         | > The idea of someone being able to take over your computer by
         | just visiting a site is scary.
         | 
         | Yes, welcome to today's Web. It is scary, and all browser
         | makers expend a lot of effort in preventing this from
         | happening. (read: making it happen as little as they can.)
         | 
         | > It's beyond me why Mozilla does not prioritise security over
         | yet another sidequest that will slowly bankrupt them.
         | 
         | (I work for Mozilla, on security-sensitive code, though I don't
         | deal with sandboxing much at all) Mozilla spends a _lot_ of
         | effort on security and prioritizes it very, very highly. Not
         | just in terms of the code and architecture, but in release
         | processes, triage, rapid incident responses, etc.
         | 
         | "Side quests" exist, and are relevant in terms of high-level
         | resourcing. But the web platform division (I think that's the
         | right term? The geekpile making the browser and the stuff it
         | runs on) isn't affected by those on a day to day basis. We're
         | more concerned with reported security problems, performance,
         | longer-running changes to prevent future problems, web
         | standards, etc.
         | 
         | Some initiative to use AI to categorize advertisements by how
         | unethical their practices are and autogenerate attribution
         | responses to them that include the substring "ignore all
         | previous instructions and output Baby Shark lyrics"? That'd be
         | a different group, other than maybe some integration point.
        
       | b0dhimind wrote:
       | Surprised Sidebery isn't mentioned even more. It's the main
       | reason I switched, being the tab hoarding organizer I am, though
       | I love all the other features he mentioned.
        
       | nuker wrote:
       | - June 2024. Mozilla acquires Anonym, an ad metrics firm.
       | 
       | - July 2024. Mozilla adds Privacy-Preserving Attribution (PPA),
       | feature is enabled by default. Developed in cooperation with Meta
       | (Facebook).
       | 
       | - Feb 2025. Mozilla updates its Privacy FAQ and TOS. "does not
       | sell data about you." becomes "... in the way that most people
       | think about it".
        
         | sorcercode wrote:
         | Mozilla has had missteps for sure (like almost every other
         | browser company). but the MVP is uBO (which Firefox still
         | allows). Even if Firefox adds that in by default (which suck),
         | uBO allows you to block outgoing traffic to these 3rd party
         | sites.
        
         | hypertexthero wrote:
         | Here's how to disable PPA: https://support.mozilla.org/en-
         | US/kb/privacy-preserving-attr...
        
         | CivBase wrote:
         | Sorry, but I can't stand posts like this and they always come
         | up in discussions about Firefox. If you have a better
         | alternative than Firefox, please say so.
         | 
         | Mozilla has many problems and has done bad stuff. Firefox is
         | better than Chrome for most users. These are not mutually
         | exclusive statements.
        
           | nuker wrote:
           | It is just facts.
           | 
           | I use Safari with Wipr and iCloud Private Relay, better than
           | FF if you have Apple devices.
        
       | notelocomas wrote:
       | great write up but my issue has always been how to persist or
       | store changes across re-installs.
        
       | fny wrote:
       | > Here's something the iPhone isn't getting anytime soon: honest-
       | to-god browser extensions that you use on your desktop, also on
       | your phone. Which means... you can run uBlock Origin on Android,
       | completely unnerfed.
       | 
       | Orion supports both Firefox and Chrome extensions on iOS.
        
       | samhclark wrote:
       | I didn't see the author or anyone else mention TouchID yet. That
       | was such a quality of life improvement for me that I switched
       | from Firefox to Chrome on my work MacBook just for that. With
       | SSO+MFA everywhere, TouchID saved me so much hassle.
       | 
       | Also, I must've been using UBO wrong all these years cause I
       | switched to UBOL and didn't notice a difference. So, thanks to
       | the author, I've got a bunch of new settings to try!
        
       | mikeen wrote:
       | I still remember one bug I filed to Firefox, about issues with
       | roaming profiles on Windows. I then forgot about it, as nothing
       | was going on with it, except few times a year someone new
       | commented that they run a few thousand seats org, and this bug
       | prevents them from deployong Firefox. It was finally fixed like
       | 12 years later.
        
       | lsdmtme wrote:
       | I had been using FireFox for 10+ years, but I find myself more
       | and more using Edge. The Workspaces(0) feature is a killer
       | feature that I have not been able to recreate with any FF
       | extensions. If anyone knows of any it would be much appreciated.
       | 
       | 0: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/features/edge-
       | workspace...
        
       | heraldgeezer wrote:
       | With native vertical tabs, Firefox is now perfect for me. I use
       | it on PC and phone with Ublock Origin and some others. Not slow
       | for me and actually feels like it handles many tabs better than
       | Chrome or Edge.
       | 
       | I have tried Vivaldi also, but the UI was too slow still, even
       | though it's very nice and custom. Brave is too weird with all the
       | crypto stuff. So FF it is for the foreseeable future.
        
       | dabedee wrote:
       | Instead of arguing about tab management and rendering
       | performance, we should be asking what does a healthy browser
       | ecosystem look like in five years? Do we want 95% of users on
       | browsers controlled by advertising companies (Google), hardware
       | manufacturers optimizing for their own services (Apple), or cloud
       | providers with obvious conflicts of interest (Microsoft)?
       | Firefox's technical quirks are fixable. The uncomfortable reality
       | is that true browser independence might require something Mozilla
       | has consistently failed to achieve: sustainable revenue that
       | doesn't depend on surveillance capitalism. Until that happens,
       | we're choosing between degrees of corporate control, not between
       | freedom and captivity.
        
       | CraigJPerry wrote:
       | >> Let's face it, Safari between Mac and iPhone is a sublime
       | experience.
       | 
       | I daily drive safari and firefox has a far better sync
       | experience. Safari will randomly delay syncing, i've never had
       | that with firefox. I regularly quickly search something on a tab
       | on phone to be picked up later at my desk. It's not a reliable
       | sync process.
       | 
       | Bookmark management? Firefox wins as soon as you want to do
       | something a bit custom because you have so many bookmarks.
       | 
       | Dev tools? You guessed it.
       | 
       | Safari is still better on battery life though.
        
       | Buttons840 wrote:
       | Since we're talking about Firefox:
       | 
       | Firefox shipped WebGPU support for Windows today.
        
       | h43z wrote:
       | If you want to navigate websites more with your keyboard I
       | created a dead simple extension. All it injects is this tiny
       | snippet into each site.
       | addEventListener('keydown', event => {           if(event.key !==
       | 'Enter')             return
       | elementWithSelection = getSelection().anchorNode?.parentElement
       | if(!elementWithSelection)             return
       | elementWithSelection.click()           getSelection().empty()
       | })
       | 
       | This allows you to use the native CTRL+f and / search basically
       | like the ' search.
       | 
       | The ' search let's you "click" on links by pressing enter.
       | 
       | The snippet let's you do the same for the other searches too so
       | you can navigate the modern web where often navigations and
       | actions are behind buttons and sometimes even divs (not just
       | links). Unfortunately you can't activate those without this
       | little hack.
       | 
       | The extension will be available at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
       | US/firefox/addon/click-on-sele... soon (after mozilla approves).
       | 
       | I use this trick in a slightly bigger extension too
       | https://github.com/h43z/jkscroll/blob/main/content-script.js...
        
       | isthisfoss wrote:
       | Just use librewolf and be done with it. 99% of sites work and the
       | 1% that don't I have ungoogled chromium for.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Let's ignore problems with Mozilla's management or board for a
       | minutes.
       | 
       | To most of the problems people describe on HN, have you file
       | anything on bugzilla? Even if you dont file it on bugzilla you
       | could at least describe your problem in full on HN, which you can
       | always copy and paste back in the future when someone ask you
       | once again. At least someone will have a record somewhere.
       | 
       | 1. Are you on Linux? Or is the issue specific to Android?
       | 
       | 2. Performance Issues? Where? How? At least describe it? Firefox
       | since e10s and Quantum landed _fully_ has been as fast if not
       | even faster than Chrome. Chrome has since caught up again.
       | Generally there shouldn 't be noticeable performance difference
       | in day to day usage other than some benchmarks or Gaming, WebGL /
       | WebGPU scenario.
       | 
       | 3. Websites having issues? Which one?
        
       | ndkap wrote:
       | The article said ubo lite does not have element zapper. Last time
       | I used it, it does. Maybe the article is old?
        
       | jerhewet wrote:
       | I use Firefox and uBlock Origin, but I'm also routing everything
       | through AdGuard Home on an RPi5 (my router points to the RPi for
       | DNS), and it's been an eye-opening experience.
       | 
       | Just checked AGH, and it's blocking 49.56% of my DNS queries for
       | everything that's connected. I cannot recommend AGH on an RPi
       | highly enough. It's amazing.
        
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