[HN Gopher] 12ft.io Taken Down
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       12ft.io Taken Down
        
       Author : afeuerstein
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2025-07-21 19:09 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newsmediaalliance.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newsmediaalliance.org)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Small discussion (29 points, 4 days ago, 6 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44601344
        
       | 0x5FC3 wrote:
       | We all hate adverts, some of us don't like or can't pay. Those
       | who pay, have access to a few publications they enjoy. It would
       | be absurd to pay for all the publications, all the streaming
       | services, but we don't want monopolies either. What could be a
       | solution for this madness?
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | Obviously the solution is embedded video ads that float over
         | top content that play with sound enabled by default and tiny
         | little x button about 3 pixels wide and 50% transparent in one
         | of the corners /s
        
           | 0x5FC3 wrote:
           | Just make the button work on the 3rd click, and count the
           | other 2 as ad clicks.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Those of us old enough to remember newspapers hated when they
           | did that.
           | 
           | Or, wait...
        
         | hombre_fatal wrote:
         | It's a good question, and I can at least say something positive
         | about every solution.
         | 
         | Ads let you make money long before you're big enough to compel
         | subscriptions... but they basically make the least tech savvy
         | people subsidize the rest of us which isn't fair.
         | 
         | Paywalls on everything seems fair, but it means that only some
         | people will see things that everyone should read. Like a
         | critical bit of investigative journalism.
         | 
         | Paywall + free articles per IP address (common solution) is
         | almost good, but it requires every single content producer to
         | polish the system, and IP address isn't the ideal fingerprint.
         | Requiring everyone to quickly register (like Apple sign-in)
         | seems decent, but once again now everyone has to polish this
         | system. Though until you're big you could just use
         | substack/wordpress/whatever.
         | 
         | Bundle subscriptions like Apple News is a decent solution--one
         | of the few times I've paid for news--, but secures the
         | domination for incumbents large enough to appear on Apple News.
         | It doesn't answer the question for anyone else.
         | 
         | Microtransactions seem like they'd be a good way to throw some
         | scraps to even tiny sites you visit once. But I think there's
         | too much psychological overhead that isn't even worth the
         | pennies. Like when you had to click the +1 Flattr button back
         | in the day, even though it was a tiny donation, you'd still
         | find yourself thinking if it was really worth it. Hmm I only
         | read half the article, etc.
        
           | ToucanLoucan wrote:
           | > Paywalls on everything seems fair, but it means that only
           | some people will see things that everyone should read.
           | 
           | The thing is that was status quo for a long time, the paywall
           | being either you sitting down at a restaurant/barber/some
           | other business that already bought papers, or you buying the
           | paper yourself. And this was a worse arrangement for
           | newspapers; distribution costs for a physical paper are
           | catastrophically high compared to web hosting.
           | 
           | I think the major issue is two-fold:
           | 
           | 1) Papers early adoption of the Internet, putting all their
           | content online for free, was ridiculous and unsustainable
           | from minute one. While this is our cultural expectation, that
           | does not mean it is remotely good business and continuing to
           | indulge the consumer that this can be free, for even one or
           | three or whatever arbitrary amount of articles you're willing
           | to "give away" each month is doing nothing but devaluing your
           | product further.
           | 
           | 2) In conjunction with the above, if papers are to charge for
           | their reporting again, the quality needs to go _up_
           | substantially. I don 't recall the last time I read an
           | article on even a mainstream, big news organization, and
           | didn't find just like... completely avoidable issues. Typos.
           | Poor grammar. Lack of cited sources or even just outright
           | incorrect information. The pace of news must be allowed to
           | slow because good product takes time to make, and being first
           | if your reporting is shit needs to be derided more directly.
           | 
           | To put it short: News needs to be comfortable to take time to
           | dig into issues, not simply be in a mad rush to cover
           | everything first no matter how shitty the cited information
           | is, and it has to be ready to stand behind a paywall and
           | just... be real with people. If you want quality news, you
           | need to be willing to pay for it, full stop.
           | 
           | The only other solution I can picture is independent news
           | organizations that are funded by the taxpayer but not
           | beholden to the government, as an American looking at my own
           | government right now... I mean I think it's likelier we'll
           | cure all forms of cancer by Thursday.
        
           | tempnew wrote:
           | "subscriptions like Apple News"
           | 
           | They will eventually start pushing ads. Just like Netflix,
           | Amazon prime, etc... Paying a subscription to prevent ads is
           | like paying a ransom: maybe you get lucky and they don't come
           | back for more in the future. But most all businesses seek
           | growth, forever, so you probably end up with a low tier of a
           | multi-tier subscription offering with ads and increasingly
           | poor quality and costs that go up unexpectedly year on year.
        
           | useless_foghorn wrote:
           | I'd partake in a microtransaction system that pays based on
           | the percentage of the article I finished. Some assurance of
           | high-quality journalism would be helpful. If HN existed as
           | pay-to-play for instance (it probably wouldn't), I wouldn't
           | be opposed to paying based on my usage for the curation -
           | knowing that I'm supporting the creators/authors of the
           | content I'm enjoying. I don't think an unlimited plan makes
           | sense - instead pay per article. I think the amount you pay
           | per should be chosen when you create your account, not every
           | time you open an article. I think this is most fair to the
           | creators and consumers with the least organizational bloat.
        
         | abxyz wrote:
         | The solution is comfort in going without.
        
           | snihalani wrote:
           | I'd vote we build a spotify for new subscription where you
           | get a share for views
        
             | micromacrofoot wrote:
             | spotify isn't sustainable as a primary income source for
             | ~99% of artists on it
        
               | jennyholzer wrote:
               | Spotify is actively hostile to artists who intend to use
               | it for income.
               | 
               | Spotify allocates a finite pool of funds to be paid out
               | to artists. Spotify pays the artists whose work they host
               | in proportion to the percentage of the platform's streams
               | which that work generates.
               | 
               | E.G., say Spotify's users streamed 10B songs in 2024. If
               | Taylor Swift is responsible for 1B (10%) of those
               | streams, she would be paid 10% of Spotify's artist fund
               | for 2024.
               | 
               | Recently, Spotify has attracted attention for promoting
               | "ghost music" created en masse by in-house producers.
               | this is done with particular intensity in non-vocal music
               | styles, like ambient and jazz. See [The Ghosts in the
               | Machine by Liz Pelly for Harper's
               | Magazine](https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-
               | in-the-machin...) for more details on this.
               | 
               | Spotify stuffs their promoted playlists with this music,
               | and tunes their automated recommendation features to
               | prioritize this music.
               | 
               | This has the dual effect of (1) inflating the number of
               | streams on the platform, and (2) algorithmically crushing
               | the possibility of discovery. This means Spotify cannot
               | be used effectively for promotion (obviously excluding
               | the top .01% most popular artists), and whatever traffic
               | an artist is able to drive to Spotify is devalued.
        
           | Supermancho wrote:
           | The fun and innovation of circumvention will never get old.
           | There is no comfort to be had in stagnation.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | Note that this, like ad blocking or piracy, also doesn't help
           | fund the creators.
        
         | commandar wrote:
         | A decade ago, I was really interested in the idea of using a
         | crypto like what Doge was at the time for this specific use
         | case. Back then, a dogecoin was a fraction of a cent so it was
         | a better fit than its current valuations.
         | 
         | Any individual page impression is only worth a few cents to the
         | publisher anyway. I still think there's a lot of potential
         | value in something similar as infrastructure for facilitating
         | ultra-microtransactions on that scale that don't get completely
         | consumed by credit card processors, etc.
         | 
         | I'm not going to maintain subscriptions to every news source
         | out there, but I'd be more than happy to toss something in the
         | tip jar from a fund I could top-up on a regular basis.
        
           | jhaile wrote:
           | I like that idea. If you opened an article you wanted to
           | read, you could be prompted to pay a few cents. You click
           | "yes", funds are transferred, and you read the article.
        
             | jennyholzer wrote:
             | this creates massive incentives for clickbait
        
               | mrkramer wrote:
               | No....because you would get to see preview of the article
               | and if you trust the news outlet and the author, you
               | would do it.
        
           | sonofaragorn wrote:
           | That's what the Basic Attention Token (BAT) from the Brave
           | team tried (is still trying?) to do: https://brave.com/brave-
           | rewards/
        
             | commandar wrote:
             | Kinda?
             | 
             | The fact that they chose to tie it to and advertise it as
             | "get paid to see ads" is a significant turn-off in my mind
             | even if the _rest_ of the ecosystem theoretically works in
             | functionally the same way.
             | 
             | In my mind, the entire point is to get away from
             | advertising as a revenue stream entirely. I _want_ to pay
             | for the things I consume. If the advertising market has
             | decided that my page impression is worth less than pocket
             | change, I 'd far rather just give that money to the
             | publisher directly and avoid ads being part of the
             | equation.
             | 
             | The core idea behind BAT isn't _bad_ , but the marketing is
             | pretty terrible if you're targeting people like me.
        
               | bb88 wrote:
               | > The core idea behind BAT isn't bad
               | 
               | I think it is bad because it legitimizes bad practices of
               | the marketing industry. "How bad could grabbing as much
               | data from the population really be? We're sharing our
               | profits!"
        
         | Arubis wrote:
         | The business model is broken, and, arguably, so too is the
         | business environment--there's many angles from which it appears
         | capitalism is no longer serving the public good. If we replaced
         | it with another -ism, what might it be, and how might that
         | support information and knowledge for the public good?
        
         | yesfitz wrote:
         | If you're in the United States, your local public library will
         | have newspaper and magazine subscriptions, both digital and
         | print. If your local library doesn't have what you want, you
         | can check larger libraries in your state to see if you qualify
         | for a library card.
         | 
         | Some libraries offer non-resident library cards for a fee (e.g.
         | $50 annually for the New Orleans Public Library).
         | 
         | Your library will also have a wide variety of other media in
         | its catalog, like books, DVDs, Blu-Rays, CDs, video games,
         | maybe even art. If they don't have a piece of physical media
         | that you want, you can request it via interlibrary loan.
         | 
         | It's astounding how radical the public library system is, and
         | it exists to solve the problem you've identified.
        
         | dkarl wrote:
         | In one of his books about intellectual property law, Lawrence
         | Lessig quoted an unnamed French lawmaker as saying, "There are
         | two things Americans need to understand about art: art has
         | nothing to do with money, and the artist must be paid!"
        
         | phoronixrly wrote:
         | How about tasteful magazine-style ads interspersed in-between
         | the article's text and meticulously inserted in a way that not
         | even does not harm the UX/design but contributes to it. You
         | know, like it used to be on printed media? Only in the case of
         | the web, the ads must not be taking up most of the web page
         | (like full-page magazine/newspaper ads), and definitely not the
         | entire above-fold part of it.
         | 
         | And most importantly, the notion of paying for ads based on
         | tracking impressions and/or any other ways of tracking users
         | needs to die. Cue laughter from the ad-tech majority on this
         | site.
         | 
         | Yes, I am adamant that advertisement contracts must not involve
         | profiling/client-side tracking the end users and their browsers
         | in any way. Ad agencies and news site companies/sites/what have
         | you must work out between them (and possibly a third party) the
         | expected amount of users that are going to see the ad and
         | decide on price based on that, _without any client-side
         | tracking_.
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | ABP, the original uBlock Origin, saw the writing on the wall a
         | decade ago or whenever and tried to mediate a truce between
         | users and advertisers.
         | 
         | ABP would allow through ads that weren't egregious, and users
         | could provide compensation for content they consumed.
         | 
         | People however either can't read or can't comprehend the
         | writing on the wall, so instead they rioted against ABP and
         | moved to uBlock Origin.
         | 
         | I know there are so many bad and greedy things that companies
         | do. And we also talk about them a lot.
         | 
         | But we almost never talk about how greedy the end users are.
         | And you cannot solve problems without understanding the full
         | problem.
        
           | stonogo wrote:
           | You're sort of leaving out the fact that ABP launched its own
           | ad network and advertisers had to pay them to get listed as
           | 'acceptable.' It torpedoed their trustworthiness in the eyes
           | of many.
        
             | ASalazarMX wrote:
             | Also, ABP made the setting silently opt-out instead of
             | asking the users. That, and their new diametrically-
             | opposite incentive of whitelisting ads for money made me
             | bail from them.
             | 
             | If at least they had made an easy to use panel to opt-in
             | which kinds of ads you were OK with (Text ads, static
             | images, animated images, silent videos, etc.), it would
             | have helped their case a lot.
        
           | ACow_Adonis wrote:
           | Except its a bit like that PERL quote.
           | 
           | You have a problem. You want to figure out a way to get
           | people to pay for things like news, investigative reporting,
           | art, community and positive externalities.
           | 
           | You think, I know, i'll use ads!
           | 
           | Now you have two problems.
        
           | cwillu wrote:
           | My computer belongs to me and will display the things I tell
           | it to display. If ABP gets in the way of that, then so long
           | ABP.
        
             | NicuCalcea wrote:
             | I'm fine with this approach as long as it goes both ways.
             | The media organisation's server is theirs, and if they want
             | to put up a paywall or block clients with ad blockers,
             | that's their prerogative.
        
         | yegle wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Contributor
         | 
         | The basic idea is that you as a user can also participate in
         | the ads bidding, and if you wins, the ad space will be replaced
         | by a static image. To the website owner this is revenue
         | neutral.
         | 
         | I'm not sure why it was discontinued. I still have fond
         | memories of this service.
        
           | lblume wrote:
           | So instead of contributing to authors, you need to
           | altruistically donate a large proportion of your money to
           | Google in exchange for replacing a single kind of advert?
           | Unlike some other Google products I can very easily see why
           | this was discontinued...
        
             | AceJohnny2 wrote:
             | You're paying for websites by viewing their ads. You're
             | paying with unsubstantial things like attention (and
             | bandwidth), which through Google and other Ad providers
             | gets converted to cash for the website.
             | 
             | Google Contributor offered you to pay cash directly,
             | instead of attention. The website owner gets some of that
             | cash, same as they would if you were shown an ad.
        
             | recursive wrote:
             | "Large portion"? I don't think it says that.
        
               | lblume wrote:
               | Well, if the revenue remains the same for the author, and
               | it also doesn't decrease for Google, it is implied that
               | their margin will have to also be paid by the person who
               | donates, for else the calculation will not work.
        
         | yorwba wrote:
         | Most news outlets publish basically the same information and
         | only the arrangement and commentary are different. Sometimes
         | they'll even brazenly report on other reporting, paraphrasing
         | enough of the original article that you don't really need to
         | read it anymore.
         | 
         | So one subscription can be enough. Maybe get two at a time if
         | you don't know yet which is best and need a direct comparison.
        
           | ThatMedicIsASpy wrote:
           | I just check reuters and apnews first these days to see
           | what's going on before checking localized stuff.
        
         | piva00 wrote:
         | It's one space where I think some form of microtransaction (in
         | the sub-cents USD) could work: I want to pay per article, not
         | have yet another subscription in the 5-15 USD just because an
         | article interested me.
         | 
         | Media consumption habits changed a lot in the Internet-era, we
         | read articles from many different publications, and only very
         | few of those are of interest enough for someone to spend that
         | amount per month. Instead having a pre-paid system I could top
         | up for paying out per read would be very attractive to me to
         | get rid of a paywall.
         | 
         | I just don't want more subscriptions, we really reached
         | saturation with this model...
        
           | jlarocco wrote:
           | I think that argument is begging the question.
           | 
           | Media consumption habits changed because that's how the
           | internet was foisted on people - not necesarily because
           | anybody made a choice or were asked what their preferences
           | were.
           | 
           | After 30 years on the internet, I've gone full circle. I
           | don't want (and won't) pay per article. 99% of the news
           | articles I read come from a handful of trusted websites (a
           | couple of major news outlets, a couple of local news outlets,
           | etc.) and I don't have any problem subscribing to them.
           | There's too much garbage on the internet, and I _want_ the
           | gatekeeping.
           | 
           | I guess that puts sites like HN in an awkward position,
           | though. Some of the content posted here is interesting, but
           | rarely enough that I would pay to read it on some random
           | site. If it's important enough, it'll show up on one of the
           | news sites I pay for.
        
         | lanewinfield wrote:
         | Scroll ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_(web_service) )
         | was attempting to solve this exact issue.
        
         | m82labs wrote:
         | I want RSS with micropayments. I want to consume information in
         | my own interface, and am willing to pay. I am not willing to
         | pay for a full subscription to a publication when I only find a
         | few articles a year that I want to read.
         | 
         | I want Spotify for text, but with a business model that makes
         | sense for all involved.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | There's that new thing CloudFlare has that lets you set a
           | price for A.I. crawlers, maybe that could be used to set a
           | price for anybody. If the price was reasonable at all I'd
           | have my crawler pay it for maybe 300 articles a week.
        
           | NicuCalcea wrote:
           | Micropayments have been tried plenty of times and never
           | succeeded. People say they'd be willing to pay, but they're
           | not.
        
         | jlarocco wrote:
         | I don't see the problem. Pay for the ones that you find
         | valuable and ignore the rest.
         | 
         | Nobody needs, or is entitled to, everything.
        
       | crinkly wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/
       | 
       | We need to keep making more of these.
        
         | nehal3m wrote:
         | This article was archived 4 days ago. :-)
         | 
         | https://archive.ph/dSeku
        
         | CjHuber wrote:
         | Or stop talking about them. No but seriously I always wonder
         | how other sites or workaround get taken down, but nobody cares
         | about archive. I just hope it continues to stay under the
         | radar.
        
           | vasco wrote:
           | The only long term solution is to stop sharing paywalled
           | content.
        
             | x______________ wrote:
             | Or create a deeper underground where the masses do not get
             | involved?
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | The dirty secret is that the news media _needs_
             | archive.today in order to function. Anyone writing an
             | article about subject Y needs to know what every paper
             | wrote about it. Back in the 00 's it got out that you could
             | log into almost any newspaper web site with "media/media",
             | something that got clamped down on when it got out.
             | 
             | You'd think _The New York Times_ could afford to get a
             | subscription to other newspapers for their reporters but
             | there is no way they could stoop so low as to admit that
             | they 're dependent on or equal to them in in any way. Most
             | smaller papers are such marginal operations that they
             | couldn't afford it even for writers who are on the paywall.
             | It's more ramshackle than you think since even a lot of
             | _New York Times_ articles are written by freelancers who
             | have no real connection with the organization and it 's
             | even more true for all the papers that are hanging on a
             | shoestring.
             | 
             | If archive.today didn't exist they'd have to make one.
        
             | Marsymars wrote:
             | There's no real way to tell if the content you share today
             | will be paywalled tomorrow.
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | https://web.archive.org
         | 
         | https://commoncrawl.org
         | 
         | I would prefer more of these.
         | 
         | Alas, archive.today (archive.ph, archive.is, archive.vn, etc.)
         | is sometimes blocked in some countries, it sometimes serves
         | CAPTCHAs, it tries to create a "fingerprint" using Javascript,
         | and it contains a tracking pixel.
         | 
         | Neither Internet Archive nor Common Crawl do those things.
         | (There are other archives I am not mentioning that do not do
         | these things either.)
         | 
         | When it works, archive.today may seem like a perfect solution
         | to "paywalls". And then it stops working. In truth most
         | paywalls are solved by controlling HTTP headers like UA and
         | X-forwarded-for, controlling Javascript and controlling
         | cookies. This control requires no third party intermediary
         | (middleman) like Archive.today. Or Internet Archive, for that
         | matter.
         | 
         | None of these archives are perfect and it's true the public
         | could use more of them. But there are better ways to avoid
         | "paywalls" which are just a means of collecting data about non-
         | subscribers while deliberately annoying them with Javascript.
        
           | pseudo0 wrote:
           | The Internet Archive is significantly less useful because
           | they allow people to exclude their public social media
           | accounts or websites. On a couple occasions I have tried to
           | find a source for old deleted statements using the IA only to
           | find that the data had been scrubbed. Fortunately
           | archive.today still had a copy in one case, but in the other
           | one I was out of luck.
        
             | cobertos wrote:
             | What were you looking for that was prone to scrubbing? Just
             | curious because I have a collection of historical data to
             | go through and don't know what to expect
        
               | pseudo0 wrote:
               | In one case it was a personal website, the other was a
               | Twitter account. Both got scrubbed from the IA.
               | 
               | Apparently they will comply with GDPR and DMCA requests,
               | I'm not sure what precise mechanism was used in those
               | cases.
               | 
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/eut3na/can_i_ge
               | t_p...
               | 
               | https://www.joshualowcock.com/guide/how-to-delete-your-
               | site-...
        
       | musha68k wrote:
       | Streisand amplification in effect.
        
       | Raed667 wrote:
       | Was it ever publicly communicated how 12ft or archive.ph|is work?
       | Or is it something they keep to themselves ?
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | I think (in the case of 12ft) they were just impersonating
         | Googlebot.
        
           | beejiu wrote:
           | That's surprising because Googlebot publishes IP ranges for
           | its crawlers and it's fairly simple to block fake crawlers
           | these days (super easy through Cloudflare, for example).
        
             | Raed667 wrote:
             | doesn't google also run some "undercover" bots to verify
             | that you don't serve very different versions of your
             | website to users vs bots ?
        
             | ewoodrich wrote:
             | In my experience 12ft.io was pretty much useless after a
             | honeymoon period of a few months when it first came out so
             | I wouldn't be surprised. The Googlebot method used to work
             | with almost everything but at some point major news orgs
             | caught on in quick succession and I gave up even bothering
             | to try it.
        
           | cesarb wrote:
           | > they were just impersonating Googlebot.
           | 
           | Which is something that shouldn't work. Google used to
           | require sites to show the same thing to Googlebot and normal
           | users; cloaking used to be banned. Were Google still
           | enforcing that rule, these sites would have been removed from
           | its index.
        
       | alfon wrote:
       | https://github.com/wasi-master/13ft
        
         | reactordev wrote:
         | Not me jumping to the link only to realize I already have it
         | stared ;)
         | 
         | Great work.
        
         | Arubis wrote:
         | Fabulous naming choice.
        
         | manquer wrote:
         | I am curious why these workarounds continue to work .
         | 
         | If the content owners care so much about the paywall integrity
         | they can verify if it is really google bot . Google provides a
         | reverse dns lookup of the IP addresses of their bots[1]
         | 
         | [1] https://developers.google.com/search/docs/crawling-
         | indexing/...
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | It can't be that easy, can it? Doesn't google bot have known ip
         | ranges that publishers whitelist?
        
           | phoronixrly wrote:
           | It's not. In my experience they even completely block non-
           | end-user IP ranges, and I'm not fond of being raided due to
           | running this at home.
        
         | joenot443 wrote:
         | wasi_master said this the last time this project was posted -
         | 
         | "Hello everyone, it's the author here. I initially created 13ft
         | as a proof of concept, simply to test whether the idea would
         | work. I never anticipated it would gain this much traction or
         | become as popular as it has. I'm thrilled that so many of you
         | have found it useful, and I'm truly grateful for all the
         | support.
         | 
         | Regarding the limitations of this approach, I'm fully aware
         | that it isn't perfect, and it was never intended to be. It was
         | just a quick experiment to see if the concept was feasible--and
         | it seems that, at least sometimes, it is. Thank you all for the
         | continued support."
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41294067
         | 
         | Probably don't spend too much time getting this running, folks.
        
       | geegee3 wrote:
       | It hadn't worked for a long time.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | I would understand if media were actually working - reporting on
       | local issues, exposing corruption or where things are not working
       | for residents.
       | 
       | Reality is that current media are mouthpieces of the rich
       | designed to make us act against our own interest and help widen
       | the wealth gap.
       | 
       | These media companies are parasites.
        
       | krunck wrote:
       | I'm not paying for subscriptions. I'll pay per article or not at
       | all.
        
       | tyzoid wrote:
       | The problem is there's not really a good way to subscribe to
       | these things. I'd gladly pay a nominal fee (~$6 USD/mo) for
       | access to media, but I'm not about to subscribe individually to
       | each site. Ideally, I'd subscribe to a single service and payment
       | is split across the various sites in proportion to how many
       | articles I read from each site.
       | 
       | There was a service that promised this a while back, but IIRC
       | mozilla bought and killed it.
        
         | Arubis wrote:
         | There's Apple News. They choose what you have access to, of
         | course.
        
           | dwb wrote:
           | They serve you adverts even if you pay, so that disqualifies
           | them for me.
        
             | Arubis wrote:
             | Interesting--that hasn't been my experience. I have a _lot_
             | of filtering layers; one or more of them might be catching
             | those.
        
             | vunderba wrote:
             | This. I trialed Apple News+ so I could read WSJ, Atlantic,
             | New Yorker on my iPad via the native iOS app and
             | immediately dropped my subscription when I started seeing
             | ads sandwiched within the articles. Ridiculous.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > I'd gladly pay a nominal fee (~6/mo) for access to media, but
         | I'm not about to subscribe individually to each site. Ideally,
         | I'd subscribe to a single service and payment is split across
         | the various sites in proportion to how many articles I read
         | from each site.
         | 
         | How many sites would you end up splitting that across? For
         | people who click a lot of links on Hacker News or other social
         | media that could be a dozen or more, easily. Depending on your
         | clicking patterns that could descend into sub-$1 amounts
         | 
         | Meanwhile sites like the New York Times charge $25/month and
         | don't have to split it with anyone.
         | 
         | I think all of the micropayment or pass-type ideas suffer from
         | the same problem: The dollar amounts people imagine paying are
         | an order of magnitude less than what sites are already charging
         | their customers. There's a secondary problem where many of the
         | people (not you specifically, just in general) who claim they'd
         | pay for such a pass would move the goalposts as soon as it was
         | available: Either it's too expensive, they just don't feel like
         | paying it, or they come up with another justification to
         | continue using paywall bypasses instead of paying anything.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | Like Spotify and how big name artists/record labels shaft all
           | the individual content creators when it comes to revenue
           | sharing. I do pay for Spotify regardless, I would pay about
           | the same for the written equivalent. Not sure if that would
           | be enough to sustain any real investigative journalism though
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | > How many sites would you end up splitting that across?
           | 
           | For news? Two, I guess.
           | 
           | My newspaper used to have two sources: local news from their
           | local reporters, and then AP stuff.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | Yes? If they show me one page per year, they can get a few
           | cents per year. That's how it works. If they want more money,
           | they should produce more content worth viewing.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Most media outlets these days are just a pile of dark patterns.
       | 
       | My local newspaper charges $1/4-weeks for N months, then rockets
       | to $30/4-weeks after (and it still has ads and an absurd number
       | of trackers!). There are 13 4-week spans in a year, rather than
       | the usual 12 months everyone else prices on.
       | 
       | If you try to cancel online they give you repeat offers to
       | temporarily lower the price back to $4/mo (until recently you
       | couldn't cancel online at all).
       | 
       | If they just charged $5/mo forever and removed ads for it, I'd
       | probably subscribe perpetually... but instead I don't even bother
       | with their nonsense and use a combination of archive.is and
       | reader mode to steal it. I can get 1/3 of their content online
       | free anyway from AP News directly.
        
       | humblebeekeeper wrote:
       | Ok, I guess I won't read content from News Media Alliance
       | outlets. I think they are probably fine with that.
       | 
       | I think about Steam a lot -- piracy goes down tremendously when
       | it's easier and better to just not pirate games.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | In the last 10 years or so companies and news outlets stared
       | gravitating towards subscription based business model but people
       | can't or don't want to subscribe to multiple different
       | services(subscription fatigue). My prediction is that a lot of
       | subscription based services will collapse and get replaced by
       | microtransactions unless you offer something exceptional like
       | Netflix, Spotify or World of Warcraft.
       | 
       | Edit: Microtransactions as in micropayments.
        
         | Gys wrote:
         | > replaced by microtransactions
         | 
         | I assume you mean micro payments?
         | 
         | Since the dawn of a more commercial internet (80's?) this has
         | been pointed out as the holy grail, for example to replace ads
         | and newspaper subscriptions. So how do you think this could now
         | materialize? In general I think individual financial
         | transactions are getting more expensive, making micro payments
         | even more unlikely then ever before.
        
           | mrkramer wrote:
           | Yea, micropayments but people can't keep up with dozens
           | subscriptions. Someone will figure out micropayments sooner
           | or later.
        
       | robswc wrote:
       | I think the biggest issue is the _vast_ majority of news is
       | noise. It won't effect you. Maybe you could argue we should be
       | "aware" of certain events happening but I'd argue most only
       | complicate your life.
       | 
       | I would subscribe to a local news provider but I see no reason to
       | ever subscribe to a national news outlet.
        
       | pentagrama wrote:
       | Bypass Paywalls Clean extension [1] still working and getting
       | updates [2].
       | 
       | [1] https://gitflic.ru/user/magnolia1234
       | 
       | [2] https://gitflic.ru/project/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-
       | fire...
        
         | NelsonMinar wrote:
         | I use this all the time and it does work very well. You do have
         | to update it (manually) on occasion though, sometimes it can
         | break things if you don't.
        
       | corny wrote:
       | Check if your local library has a PressReader subscription. It
       | doesn't help open links to paywalled articles, but depending on
       | your library, you may already have access to a lot of newspapers
       | and magazines.
        
       | rckt wrote:
       | Not sure how is this illegal. It's like saying that listening to
       | a song that is played anywhere, but your paid service is illegal.
       | 
       | Anything public and online is accesible. These guys just
       | motivated a bunch of other people to build more tools to fuck
       | with paywalls.
        
       | lovelearning wrote:
       | If this News Media Alliance put some effort into enabling per-
       | article micropayments or a prepaid credits system valid across
       | all its members, there'd be fewer people looking to bypass
       | paywalls.
        
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