[HN Gopher] Hungary's oldest library is fighting to save books f...
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       Hungary's oldest library is fighting to save books from a beetle
       infestation
        
       Author : smollett
       Score  : 190 points
       Date   : 2025-07-16 15:25 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44552362
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | Reminds me of this:
       | https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/366053/at-his-peak-pablo...
        
       | funnym0nk3y wrote:
       | I'm surprised that they use such a tame method for eradication. I
       | expected the use of huge loads of insecticides.
        
         | chmod775 wrote:
         | You could spray insecticides and kill some percentage while
         | damaging the books further.
         | 
         | Or you put them in a sealed environment with no oxygen, killing
         | every single one of these beetles.
         | 
         | I'm not sure that the more lethal option is "tame".
        
           | MichaelRo wrote:
           | How about stuffing the books in a freezer? Apparently this
           | can kill both bugs and their eggs, although I'm not sure it
           | works on the particular kind of bugs in these books:
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/IsItBullshit/comments/orpifq/isitbu.
           | ..
           | 
           | Also there exist "ultra low" freezers which can bring
           | temperature waay lower than the regular -20 Celsius. Like -80
           | or something. I doubt any bug or egg can survive such
           | environment, although the books should suffer no harm.
        
             | krisoft wrote:
             | I do not doubt that freezing them would kill the bugs. I
             | would be worried that unless it is very carefully managed
             | it might damage the books though. In particular i would
             | worry that moisture from the air would freeze on the books
             | and as they are thawed they would get water damaged. Or
             | that moisture trapped inside the bindings would form ice
             | crystals and physically damage the books as they form.
             | 
             | None of these are concern with the hypoxic treatment they
             | choose. Plus the nitrogen atmosphere treatment is so much
             | simpler on the practical level. Instead of bringing in
             | freezers and powering them for the whole duration of the
             | treatment all you need is some crates, plastic bags and
             | nitrogen bottles. Makes it much easier to bring the
             | treatment where the books are, thus you avoid all kind of
             | complications with transporting the books.
        
               | MichaelRo wrote:
               | Well, it's an idea. Perhaps de-humidifying the books
               | first...
               | 
               | The hypoxic approach needs to last at least until eggs
               | hatch, otherwise you're back to square one. And I'm not
               | so sure if a plastic bag can hold tight for long without
               | leaking (nitrogen out, air in).
        
               | tokai wrote:
               | Most insect eggs require external oxygen exchange. Low
               | oxygen treatment against beetles is a common method used
               | for stored grains.
        
               | FinnKuhn wrote:
               | De-humidifying the books however could also damage them
               | so I believe their solution is probably the best for this
               | purpose.
        
             | staplung wrote:
             | One potential problem might be that they have to treat the
             | entire collection of 400,000 books at the same time (which
             | makes sense because otherwise you risk rotating the beetles
             | through the collection). So they'd have to find such an
             | ultra-low temp freezer that was large enough to hold 400k
             | books.
             | 
             | Also, although I assume this is a very rare ability among
             | insects and probably not applicable to the "drugstore
             | beetle" from this article, check out this insane fly
             | species I found while looking for freeze tolerant insects:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypedilum_vanderplanki It
             | (or its larvae, anyway) can survive temperatures as low as
             | 3K!
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > One potential problem might be that they have to treat
               | the entire collection of 400,000 books at the same time
               | (which makes sense because otherwise you risk rotating
               | the beetles through the collection). So they'd have to
               | find such an ultra-low temp freezer that was large enough
               | to hold 400k books.
               | 
               | They don't have to treat them all in the same place. They
               | could use more than one freezer.
        
           | funnym0nk3y wrote:
           | Well, I thought of adding high volatile insecticides to the
           | bags.
        
         | pedalpete wrote:
         | I'm dealing with a carpet beetle infestation at my house which
         | is eating my furniture (natural fibres and horse hair).
         | 
         | Insecticides will damage the natural fibers. The risk is that
         | they damage the books more than the beetles would.
         | 
         | Insecticide or desiccants directly on the books, for example
         | the natural adhesives, could cause the adhesive to crack,
         | destroying the book.
         | 
         | I wish I could do this sealed nitrogen process. At the moment,
         | it's spraying cedar wood with lavender and sticking into the
         | less accessible places where the beetles are likely burrowing,
         | and vaccuuming regularly.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | Controlling humidity could be the simplest option. RH <50% makes
       | it really hard for anything living to propagate in an otherwise
       | "dry" space.
        
         | exhilaration wrote:
         | That works great for your basement but what's the impact of low
         | humidity on ancient books?
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | You definitely wouldn't want to go all the way to zero.
           | 30-50% RH is generally the sweet spot for archival purposes.
        
           | Amezarak wrote:
           | The library also talks about having a huge mold problem, so
           | it would likely be positive.
        
       | Iryna77 wrote:
       | When opening this I didn't expect such an advanced level of
       | insect infestation described in the library, so the entire
       | collection is classified as infected and must be treated all at
       | the same time. They have to remove about 100,000 handbound books
       | and i guess bc of the age of some of these books the best
       | treatment is oxygen deprivation but "the abbey hopes all the
       | beetles will be destroyed" after 6 weeks is not a promising
       | statement
        
       | maxloh wrote:
       | Although preserving the original copy is important too, I believe
       | many of the risks could be mitigated if those books were scanned
       | (or are they?).
        
       | mdavid626 wrote:
       | Any Hungarians here?
        
         | aronhegedus wrote:
         | Igen!
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | I wish there was a tracker showing all the unscanned and
       | untranslated books in the world. I was astonished to discover
       | that less than 10% of Neo-Latin books have been translated (ie,
       | most of everything published, from the renaissance to modern
       | period)
        
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