[HN Gopher] 'Universal cancer vaccine' trains the immune system ...
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       'Universal cancer vaccine' trains the immune system to kill any
       tumor
        
       Author : 01-_-
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2025-07-19 19:34 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newatlas.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newatlas.com)
        
       | rpdillon wrote:
       | This seems so cool that I was immediately suspicious, but this
       | isn't my area of expertise, so it's hard for me to understand the
       | original paper:
       | 
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41551-025-01380-1
       | 
       | This is the abstract, though, which suggests the need for a
       | standard "in mice" disclaimer:
       | 
       | > The success of cancer immunotherapies is predicated on the
       | targeting of highly expressed neoepitopes, which preferentially
       | favours malignancies with high mutational burden. Here we show
       | that early responses by type-I interferons mediate the success of
       | immune checkpoint inhibitors as well as epitope spreading in
       | poorly immunogenic tumours and that these interferon responses
       | can be enhanced via systemic administration of lipid particles
       | loaded with RNA coding for tumour-unspecific antigens. In mice,
       | the immune responses of tumours sensitive to checkpoint
       | inhibitors were transferable to resistant tumours and resulted in
       | heightened immunity with antigenic spreading that protected the
       | animals from tumour rechallenge. Our findings show that the
       | resistance of tumours to immunotherapy is dictated by the absence
       | of a damage response, which can be restored by boosting early
       | type-I interferon responses to enable epitope spreading and self-
       | amplifying responses in treatment-refractory tumours.
        
         | _Microft wrote:
         | The submitted article mentions that it was a study conducted on
         | mice though?
         | 
         | [0] "In this study on mice with melanoma, the vaccine was able
         | to clear existing tumors that had proven drug-resistant."
        
           | slater wrote:
           | It's common for medical articles posted here to have a great-
           | sounding breakthrough in their title, and you then have to
           | read the article to find out it's only been done in mice.
           | "en-mice'd/en-micing" is a term for mods editing titles, here
           | :D
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | Lay people act like this is a trump card but this is just
             | how science is done. You can't really perform this in
             | humans without having some data that it may very well work.
             | Mice have been pretty good models for cancer biology.
             | Nature Biotechnology is also a good and selective journal.
        
               | slater wrote:
               | I agree, I'm just mentioning it re: clickbait titles (not
               | calling anyone out) vs. "oh, [xyz] hasn't been cured,
               | there's just some promising results in mice"
        
               | CoastalCoder wrote:
               | Out of curiosity, are there examples of drug development
               | that did poorly in animal models, but then did much
               | better in human trials?
               | 
               | I'm guessing this is rarely tested since animal modeling
               | is usually a gating factor for human testing?
        
               | mrosett wrote:
               | Checkpoint inhibitors (which are the primary driver of
               | improved cancer treatment over the last 15 years and
               | generate > $50B/year in sales) generally don't look very
               | good preclinically. Even their clinical data can be hard
               | to interpret prior to a large scale trial, which led to
               | them almost being shelved.
               | 
               | The catch here is that only two targets (PD(L)-1 and
               | CTLA-4) turned out to work well in humans. All of the
               | other immunotherapies that looked mediocre preclinically
               | turned out to also be mediocre or entirely ineffective in
               | humans.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | a bit of context:
           | 
           | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-019-0416-z
           | 
           | https://news.uthscsa.edu/scientists-create-first-mouse-
           | model...
           | 
           | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41571-022-00721-2
           | 
           | its not just, put it in a mouse, then guess about what
           | happens to humans.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | The linked article said the vaccine was still in pre-clinical
         | trials, which means it hasn't been tested on humans yet. Mouse
         | models are a stepping stone toward that. When you hear 'pre-
         | clinical' think 'alpha testing', or 'proof of concept' stage.
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | Basically, seed tumors with IFN-1 using targeted RNA
       | nanomolecules (that accumulated in the lungs in this case where
       | they modeled lung cancers). This converts the tumor
       | microenvironment from one hostile to immune cells to one where
       | immune cells are now active and on the hunt for tumor specific
       | neoantigens.
       | 
       | The one open question I wish they would get at is the exact
       | sentization mechanism behind the PD-L1 inhibitor and IFN-1
       | response. The idea is that cancer cells have selective pressure
       | to hide from the immune system and one way of doing that is
       | presenting this PD-1 receptor to the PD-L1 ligand on the immune
       | cell, an interaction that keeps the cancer cell from being killed
       | and one that PD-L1 inhibitor drugs target to enable tumor cells
       | to now be visible to the immune system (as they output a lot of
       | screwed up things that are otherwise visible to the immune system
       | as "not self").
       | 
       | They tested tumors that aren't sensitive to pd-l1 inhibition so
       | presumably evading immune surveillance another way instead of
       | presenting PD-1, and then found them to then be sensitive to
       | PD-L1.
       | 
       | It could be that within a tumor there are subclonal cells that do
       | express PD-1 but are otherwise protected from PD-L1 inhibitiion
       | having any effect from the hostile tumor microenvironment keeping
       | immune surveillance from operating normally anyhow. Induce the
       | immune response, now the T cell is in the area for PD-L1
       | inhibition to work. Another possibility is that the IFN-1
       | induction leads to PD-1 now being expressed by cells that didn't
       | do it previously.
       | 
       | Authors didn't explore this though. Probably would take more
       | experiments and mice are expensive and time consuming. It could
       | be answered by single cell RNA sequencing of these unresponsive
       | tumors and seeing if there is some subset of cryptic tumor cells
       | that do express PD-1 already before IFN-1 induction. As well as
       | measuring expression after IFN-1 induction (maybe several
       | timepoints to measure change in gene expression profile in the
       | tumor population, if any)
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | Something that "essentially tells the body to ... stimulate the
       | immune system" usually would cause high fever? I didn't see this
       | mentioned so wondering if it is or isn't a complication with
       | this.
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | its a function, not a bug.
         | 
         | Fever and the thermal regulation of immunity: the immune system
         | feels the heat
         | 
         | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4786079/
        
       | 0xbadc0de5 wrote:
       | ... in mice.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, it's encouraging to see research in this
       | field progressing. But there is a long list of treatments that
       | work in mice that do not work in humans.
       | 
       | I'll temper my enthusiasm with a healthy dose of pragmatism.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Of course it is in mice. If they were in the human testing
         | phase, you would have read about it long before on HN!
        
           | phtrivier wrote:
           | But the title "inadvertently" forgets to mention that the
           | "universal cancer vaccine" is not universal, not a vaccine,
           | and does not cure cancer unless you're a rodent.
           | 
           | So, of course it gets to the HN front page, because the title
           | is so catchy !
           | 
           | I guess the only way to make it go to the front page faster
           | would have be to label the article : "MIT alumni-founded,
           | Standford-based, YC-funded startup creates universal cancer
           | vaccine with AI, in Rust"
        
       | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
       | mRNA research. Something which the current government just cut
       | funding across the board.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | If they smell a "universal cancer cure" the big pharmas will
         | fund it themselves. It would be a license to print money.
        
           | chasil wrote:
           | It is just a vaccine that expresses common cancer epitopes.
        
       | suzzer99 wrote:
       | Isn't this literally the plot of I Am Legend? And we also have
       | scientists thawing out 2.5 million year old ice, just to see what
       | happens. smh
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Did this film address ribosomes?
         | 
         | If not, no.
        
         | more_corn wrote:
         | Nope
        
         | Nasrudith wrote:
         | It seems that people's separation of reality and fiction has
         | gotten downright dismal. I would blame LLMs but I have seen far
         | too many peope unironically cite "Elysium" as "evidence of what
         | the rich are planning" well before LLMs went mainstream.
        
       | phtrivier wrote:
       | I still hate those articles title with all my heart.
       | 
       | Is there a way to ban lies about cancer vaccines, fusion
       | reactors, and infinite battery storage ?
       | 
       | Sure, okay, people are working on that, and they're making small
       | incremental improvements and that's good for them ; and
       | unfortunately they need to advertise to secure more funding for
       | the later incremental stage of their research. I understand that.
       | 
       | But please stop with the nonsensical "cancer vaccine", "miracle
       | cancer treatment", "cancer breakthrough" etc... This is an insult
       | to everyone who lost a loved one to cancer.
       | 
       | Cause I'll be _really_ happy when a _real_ cure happens (as in,
       | when anyone can go the their doctor, for real, and get a real
       | "cure", and they have no cancer after that, and it's a simple as
       | getting a cure for, well, you know, the diseases that we "cure",
       | and that are definitely not cancer ?)
       | 
       | But this is not today. Today we "deal" with cancer, we "spare"
       | people some time, we squash it a bit and maybe save a couple of
       | years if you have the "lucky" kind of cancer - and that's great,
       | and let's continue doing that.
       | 
       | But enough with the headlines.
       | 
       | Play it like Apple, please.
       | 
       | Tell me about it when I can buy it.
        
         | hughw wrote:
         | But we know how to read critically, don't we? When I read it, I
         | searched for and noticed "mice" and "proof of concept" in the
         | text, and understood the limited claims they're making. I'm
         | glad to learn about this incremental progress because cancer
         | immunotherapy seems a promising avenue.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > Tell me about it when I can buy it.
         | 
         | Sorry if this comes across as snarky but perhaps you should not
         | read posts on a hacker forum, and instead limit yourself to
         | reading advertisements?
        
       | hughw wrote:
       | I miss the old @justsaysinmice twitter (account deleted)
       | 
       | https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/15/in-mice-twitter-account-...
        
       | taylodl wrote:
       | I know a lot of people here are tired of these teaser headlines
       | and don't want to be told anything until there's an actual cure.
       | But here me out - I'm old enough to have lost several friends and
       | family to cancer. Along the way there have _always_ been
       | headlines like this where it seems that a breakthrough is
       | imminent, and you know what? We are _much_ better at preventing,
       | detecting, and treating cancer than we were 40 years ago!
       | 
       | I personally know several people who have gotten breast cancer
       | and survived! I remember when that was practically a death
       | sentence. Ditto for colon cancer. Even your prospects for lung
       | cancer have improved dramatically.
       | 
       | What has made this progress possible is this relentless research.
       | Research that leads to reports being published. Promising leads
       | being discussed. A huge portion of this research leads to dead
       | ends - BUT - some leads to real progress and has in turn lead to
       | real lives being saved. So I say continue with the research and
       | continue publishing and sharing the research results.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-19 23:01 UTC)