[HN Gopher] Advertising without signal: The rise of the grifter ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Advertising without signal: The rise of the grifter equilibrium
        
       Author : neehao
       Score  : 160 points
       Date   : 2025-07-19 02:25 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.gojiberries.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.gojiberries.io)
        
       | soared wrote:
       | Those formulas have to be comedy but it seems like it's trying to
       | be serious.
        
         | neehao wrote:
         | agree. they seem hasty but didn't notice anything obviously
         | wrong but may be i missed something ...
        
           | neehao wrote:
           | appears the math was updated
        
         | gsf_emergency_2 wrote:
         | Yes. Comedy is suboptimally optimal
        
       | esperent wrote:
       | Regarding the Oatly ad at the top ( _Another ad for our oat drink
       | providing no reason at all why you should try it_ ), this ad does
       | have a signal. It's a humblebrag. It's saying, our product is so
       | well known, and the reasons for using it so obvious, that we
       | don't need to say anything. It's cementing Oatly brand in the
       | minds of anyone who already _thinks_ that they should be
       | switching to non-dairy milk for any reason (health, environment,
       | etc).
        
         | neehao wrote:
         | agree..
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Also that it is the drink of nonconformists and creatives. Many
         | of their other ads cross way over into tryhard cringe for how
         | "random" they are.
        
           | cnity wrote:
           | Tryhard cringe for us, but likely very funny and edgy to,
           | say, 5-10 year olds. It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't
           | an attempt to center Oatly for coming generations as an
           | investment.
        
             | andrepd wrote:
             | It's funny and edgy for adult segments as well,
             | unfortunately. Advertising works.
        
         | spyckie2 wrote:
         | I wish someone did an analysis of their marketing. I really
         | hope it was a huge flop because it's just awful.
         | 
         | I despise their horrible advertising and marketing copy in
         | general and I sometimes just have to tell myself, "it's just
         | oat milk no need to boycott it because some edgy marketing
         | consultant forces you to read their nonsense".
        
           | mattlondon wrote:
           | It's in your head. Someone did something right.
        
             | spyckie2 wrote:
             | hmm after some research I'm inclined to believe that 1)
             | oatly is the best tasting product on the market, 2) it's
             | the distribution channels that was the success, not the
             | marketing copy, and 3) spending massive amounts of capital
             | into growth of a good product will always yield growth.
             | 
             | So no... I stand by what I said, I think they did a lot of
             | things wrong in the marketing department, in spite of
             | having a really solid product.
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | It's I think what we used to call "brand advertising".
         | 
         | Just like random "coca-cola" billboards at the side of a road
         | or a sports stadium
        
           | efitz wrote:
           | I once read an article that said basically that some ads were
           | targeted at people who had already bought the product, to
           | prevent regret for paying a premium price. The example given
           | was TV commercials for BMW cars but I can see that applying
           | with the oat milk drink.
        
             | esafak wrote:
             | So the regret increases the premium! Funny when you think
             | about it.
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | The version I head was they're placed to remind you that
             | you made a good choice, and for your _next_ car, you should
             | make the same good choice.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | The ad is basically saying "You consumers don't know how to use
         | your brains and will buy our brand just because we showed a
         | picture of it". Terrible.
        
           | bowsamic wrote:
           | Not really, it's more of a brag about how oatly has fully
           | solidified itself as _the_ choice for so many, basically like
           | Nutella
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | Nope. It builds on prior exposure to Oatly marketing in other
           | channels, which they famously are good at.
           | 
           | The market for oat milk consumers mostly consists of people
           | that had actively made a choice about drinking oat milk
           | already.
        
           | ses1984 wrote:
           | To me it looks like a parody of advertising in general which
           | rarely provides reasons.
        
           | abetol wrote:
           | Gen-X doesn't want to be manipulated.
           | 
           | Millennial advertising doesn't adhere to 20th century
           | advertising norms.
           | 
           | Gen-X is getting older and needs fiber and to lose weight, so
           | they respond to "oats".
           | 
           | Millennials and Gen-Z want healthy-looking drinks that are
           | trendy and fun, because they'll never be able to pay off
           | their college loans and grew up during a time where politics
           | were divided and assume we may all die from global warming
           | and WW3 so they just want to be healthy and happy.
           | 
           | This ad is trying to say, "We're not going to say this is
           | healthy, or will make you feel free, or is a fast meal
           | substitute. It's just oat milk."
           | 
           | That pretty much appeals to all of them.
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | It looks like it's in Vienna ("gewista"), but is delivering its
         | huge vacuous message in English.
        
       | mrala wrote:
       | Since the article doesn't mention it, CPA stands for cost per
       | action.
        
         | closewith wrote:
         | Cost Per Acquisition (of a new customer).
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | How do they know if the customer is new or not?
        
             | HEGalloway wrote:
             | tracking via cookies (that expire after X days) or some
             | kind of identifier in the CRM
        
             | closewith wrote:
             | Normally in e-commerce, it's based on email or phone
             | number. In physical retail, they use all sorts of tactics,
             | from loyalty cards to facial recognition (where legal,
             | which it shouldn't be).
        
       | ArtTimeInvestor wrote:
       | CPA pricing removes the burn
       | 
       | Not true. There is limited ad space which all advertisers compete
       | for. No matter which model, CPC or CPA, the advertiser who pays
       | most gets the ad placement.
       | 
       | Its similar to SEO. Nobody says "Oh my god, advertising via SEO
       | is free, what a blessing!". It's still a competition. It's still
       | a zero sum game.
        
         | ajb wrote:
         | He's not saying advertisers don't compete. He's saying it
         | changes from advertising being a massive _risk_ as well as a
         | cost, to just a cost. So the auction is won by the company with
         | the biggest instantaneous profit margin on a SKU, instead of
         | the one with the biggest war chest that can afford to risk on
         | that massive prime time slot. This change in incentive favours
         | shitty products.
        
       | maartenscholl wrote:
       | This has little to do with equilibrium analysis, it is just the
       | market for lemons story but for the ad space. You need to
       | investigate the buyers and what they believe about brand quality.
        
       | cornholio wrote:
       | One of the remedies proposed, tying product reviews to the
       | manufacturer instead of the storefront is a very difficult thing
       | to implement.
       | 
       | Manufacturers are in a fundamental conflict with Amazon precisely
       | because they desire to fully control the retail channels and set
       | their own promotions, online discounts etc. and capture most of
       | the surplus themselves while still segmenting the market and, for
       | example, selling at different prices through certain local
       | distributors.
       | 
       | Amazon has the exact opposite incentives, they want distributors
       | of the same brand to compete amongst themselves so they can offer
       | the lowest global prices, and that it's Amazon and its users that
       | capture most of the surplus.
       | 
       | This is the root of the forgery problem Amazon can't solve,
       | manufacturers aren't willing to vouch for their products when
       | sold in secondary channels they do not fully control. So this
       | means they will not collaborate on the "global rating" scheme
       | either.
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | > This is the root of the forgery problem Amazon can't solve
         | 
         | Has chosen not to solve. They could trivially improve the
         | situation by ending the practice of commingled inventory so a
         | seller could be held accountable for counterfeit or stolen
         | items but that would cost more so they don't.
        
           | luckylion wrote:
           | How do they handle it when you get your inventory sent back?
           | I.e. you send them 100 pieces of X and after three months you
           | tell them to send them back to you. Do they just take 100
           | pieces of X out of their general inventory, or do they know
           | which ones were yours? Because otherwise it seems like an
           | obvious scam where you could send in trash and get real items
           | back.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | I don't know but based on the number of people I know
             | who've gotten clearly counterfeit or repackaged items from
             | official storefronts on Amazon, I would assume they just
             | take 100 units out of that bin.
        
             | fhkatari wrote:
             | RFID is a possible solution. Tags are now about five cents,
             | and likely to drop further in price with volume. Newer tag
             | designs can be sewn in the seams of garments and shoes.
        
               | cornholio wrote:
               | Commingling is optional to Amazon vendors, all they have
               | to do is track each item with a plain individual sticker
               | / QR tag. They opt not to do it and track using the
               | generic product barcode since it's cheaper and simpler.
               | 
               | So if they can't be bothered to attach a zero cents
               | sticker on the item, a 5cents rfid tag is out of the
               | question.
        
             | whatever1 wrote:
             | Commingling only happens at the frontend. For each item the
             | vendor is tracked. Physically they are in different bins
             | and more likely in different warehouses. So if you buy a
             | product and it turns out fake, Amazon can trace back the
             | vendor for the particular item you received.
             | 
             | It helps with inventory availability with the cost of risk
             | of bad customer experience in case of fraud.
        
         | somat wrote:
         | Ehhh, My experience is the opposite(perhaps it is what you buy)
         | manufacturers hate dealing with the end customer directly,
         | customer-service is huge pain and not part of their core
         | competence. So the manufacturer always goes through resellers,
         | distributors, middle-men.
         | 
         | Personally I hate it, I would love to buy directly from the
         | manufacturer instead of playing roulette with the distributor.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | That explains the success of platforms like Temu: every search
       | generates many identical products that are all dirt cheap, which
       | makes my search much easier. I find myself buying a lot faster
       | because there is not a lot of variety and relatively little
       | trickery/ads
        
         | bravesoul2 wrote:
         | Are we talking about the same Temu that pops up a spinning
         | roulette wheel telling you have 100% off and to install the app
         | to get the offer? (Catch is... it isn't 100% off and it's BS)
        
           | phatfish wrote:
           | Yup no idea, Temu is peak gamified shopping. The parent could
           | just be fully on board with being conned though.
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | Maybe the parent just runs with all kinds of ad blockers /
             | privacy options on, because I haven't seen that roulette
             | thing on Temu.
             | 
             | Or perhaps, if it's infrequent, I just ignored it as
             | obvious bullshit. I only did one order off them
             | experimentally last year.
        
           | dazc wrote:
           | I have heard Temu being described as a store where no sane
           | person would buy anything. This suggests marketing purely to
           | sane people isn't the best route to success?
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | The cited research that buyers use price as an indicator of
       | quality was from 1985. Does that hold true these days?
       | 
       | My gut suspects not?
       | 
       | Perhaps in the early and mid 80s you could still buy quality
       | products, but now is seems 99% of things are just mass-produced
       | where ever it is cheapest. People are conditioned on Amazon to
       | find the same product from a jumble-of-letter manufacturer who is
       | selling the exact same thing at the lowest price. I do not trust
       | that if I buy a "known brand" for a product that it is going to
       | be any different from a similar same no-name thing that is 20-30%
       | of the price (...and very possibly built in the same factory). If
       | it's all low quality crap (which a lot of the time it is) then
       | you may as well get the cheapest one
       | 
       | Sadly you need to rely on things like YouTube videos to actually
       | get any kind of idea on if the item is trash or not, and even
       | then there is the risk of paid-reviews so you need to take
       | multiple sources into account, who they are, trust levels etc.
       | it's sad. Either that or - and I know this is madness - go to a
       | physical store and inspect the goods before you buy it.
       | 
       | I would argue that the article is correct that quality is often
       | secondary to speed of delivery and cheapness though. Amazon has
       | totally won there.
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | If I buy a $100 projector vs a $1,000 one, or a $20 curling
         | iron vs a $200 one, the order of magnitude difference does make
         | for a better product, I find.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | Maybe. But what about the Audi vs. Volkswagen? A Ninja
           | blender vs. a KitchenAid? A memory card from SanDisk vs. a
           | no-name brand? A shirt from Fred Perry vs. H&M? And these
           | were brands you probably know. What about the products in
           | niches, where you don't have experience, or products are
           | sufficiently similar? Do you always know whether a product is
           | more expensive because of the brand, or because it's
           | objectively better?
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | because car brands belong to very few auto makers, a lot of
             | cars with different names use the same chassis across
             | brands, the same engine, and probably the same electronics
             | as well. so you end up with most of the difference being
             | esthetics these days, at least for cars within roughly the
             | same price range.
        
           | typewithrhythm wrote:
           | I don't think it's the price giving information there though.
           | I can find many projectors being sold in the 1000 range that
           | do not compare to the best in the 100 range.
           | 
           | Yes I agree that there are better products for more money,
           | it's just that I have to filter by something else because I
           | can't trust that the price corresponds to performance for any
           | given listing.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | > I can find many projectors being sold in the 1000 range
             | that do not compare to the best in the 100 range.
             | 
             | I don't believe you. Link? That extra $900 gets a iot more
             | lumens and portability and CPU and ports and such that the
             | $100 ones I've seen just don't have.
        
           | CommenterPerson wrote:
           | FYI Consumer Reports' "Best Buy" ratings _used_ to reliably
           | indicate very good quality and low price. The seem to have
           | changed it to  "Recommended" and enshittified it.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Anchoring still exists and is something people use, price for
         | sure impacts how people view things, if you make 3 price points
         | for your product, say... $20/mth, $200mth and $25000/mth, you
         | can often push people into the middle package more easily, it's
         | called the Goldilocks effect. Pricing and positioning well is a
         | lot of work simply because people for sure still use price as a
         | strange yardstick, and as someone who figures out how to price
         | things and position them for a living, it can be
         | very...frustrating.
        
         | dqv wrote:
         | > The cited research that buyers use price as an indicator of
         | quality was from 1985. Does that hold true these days?
         | 
         | > My gut suspects not?
         | 
         | You are correct that price is no longer an indicator of
         | quality.
         | 
         | Look at this stick vacuum review, for example:
         | https://vacuumwars.com/vacuum-wars-best-cordless-vacuums/#1
         | 
         | A $374 vacuum ranks at #4 while a $1049 vacuum ranks at #8.
         | That is a HUGE price gap for items that are supposed to be of
         | similar quality. The _reason_ for the gap is irrelevant to this
         | discussion too, because we are talking about the relation
         | between price and quality.
         | 
         | And people try to blame the consumer for both sides of the
         | issue.
         | 
         | People shrug and say it is the consumer who demands cheaper
         | products and that is why they are of such low quality (despite
         | what you say, which is that price and quality are much less
         | connected than what people selling you things want you to
         | believe), but then when those same consumers initiate returns,
         | people cry foul like the consumer is somehow maliciously buying
         | shit quality products and returning them to spite honest
         | companies who just want to do right by their customers.
         | 
         | Look at how this article is written:
         | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/retail-returns-890-bill...
         | 
         | Notice anything in that "Why returns are a big problem"
         | section? A neat rhetorical trick which attempts to get
         | inattentive readers to believe that the bulk of all returns are
         | just people trying on clothes and returning the ones they don't
         | like. Now, if it really were the bulk of all returns, they
         | would have _surely_ mentioned this, because it would buttress
         | their point.
         | 
         | They did not, because they can not, because, I have a suspicion
         | that _the $890 billion worth of returns is primarily due to
         | reverse /negative demand for shit products_. I suspect those
         | return numbers creeping up year over year are consumers getting
         | annoyed with retailers for not curating products in a way that
         | considers quality and longevity.
         | 
         | As the featured article mentions, Amazon does mark products as
         | frequently returned, but I am not sure it really helps that
         | much.
         | 
         | > Sadly you need to rely on things like YouTube videos to
         | actually get any kind of idea on if the item is trash or not,
         | and even then there is the risk of paid-reviews so you need to
         | take multiple sources into account, who they are, trust levels
         | etc. it's sad. Either that or - and I know this is madness - go
         | to a physical store and inspect the goods before you buy it.
         | 
         | And even then, they miss important details, because most
         | reviews only talk about the product in terms of the out-of-box
         | experience. But how good is the product after two years? After
         | four? Even the vacuum review I linked does not really comment
         | on longevity.
         | 
         | > I would argue that the article is correct that quality is
         | often secondary to speed of delivery and cheapness though.
         | Amazon has totally won there.
         | 
         | I think it is starting to change where people are getting
         | really tired of shit quality and that is going to continue to
         | be reflected in the returns data. Returns do not make customers
         | whole - they do not get a refund for the time they had to spend
         | researching, procuring, and ultimately returning the product. I
         | imagine companies are going to be in for a rude awakening when
         | they have to reverse course and not only _increase quality_ but
         | also _decrease the price_ because no one wants to spend hard-
         | earned money on expensive junk during a recession.
        
           | silvestrov wrote:
           | > _the bulk [...] trying on clothes and returning the ones
           | they don 't like_
           | 
           | If this was really the case then Amazon would not have a
           | "frequently returned" concept as this would penalize sellers
           | doing nothing wrong.
           | 
           | "frequently returned" warning makes only sense when the
           | majority of returns are due to lack of quality control.
        
       | sgt101 wrote:
       | How can consumers respond to get useful information and enable
       | themselves to make better decisions when exchanging their
       | resources for goods?
       | 
       | - use other information channels like review media (fashion
       | sites)?
       | 
       | - trust secondary sites like brand retailers (IE. John Lewis in
       | the UK?)
       | 
       | ????
        
         | dazc wrote:
         | I used to buy from John Lewis since they tended to have a
         | curated selection of products and the reviews (where they
         | exist) haven't been gamed. I don't recall a purchase that I
         | have regretted.
         | 
         | Not so sure now they are becoming just another drop-shipper but
         | there are few alternatives in the UK.
        
       | CommenterPerson wrote:
       | As a consumer, my reaction to all this is simply to stop looking
       | and stop buying. Unless it's something urgent, I put it on a list
       | and wait. Many times the need goes away. Better than dealing with
       | all this crap.
        
       | zkmon wrote:
       | I'm recently seeing some ads on TV, that make me avoid ads by any
       | means. There simply weirdness and harmfulness to eyes mixed and
       | served. I think this is being done to attract viewer attention,
       | which became 99% of the goal, rather than being informative or
       | signaling. Sometimes there is hardly any indication what the
       | actual product is, and how it is relevant to whatever weirdness
       | that took up most of the ad time. Things like putting a mouth on
       | the forehead of people, fast flickering scenes, and I can't even
       | dare to speak about other weirdness. Oh god, the ad designers are
       | a desperate bunch for attention. I'm really fearful of touching
       | TV remote. And if these ads really liked by people, then I'm
       | fearful of the future of the world in the hands of these people.
        
         | sheiyei wrote:
         | I'm pretty quick to never-again a company which advertises in a
         | way that makes me sick. A certain electronics store chain that
         | operates here in the Nordics, which someone is bound to
         | recognise, is on my ban list for psychedelic surrealist shock
         | advertising.
         | 
         | Not that I see much ads any more anyway, what with Ublock
         | Origin, Blokada 5 and Youtube ReVanced.
        
         | joules77 wrote:
         | "media time" or the amount of time Americans consume media is
         | not rising (6-7 hours a day). So no great new user growth + no
         | great screen time growth. But the Ad industry revenues are
         | growing at 15-20%.
         | 
         | With a population of ~300 Million the US ad industry generates
         | 400 Billion in revenue. Avg Bounty of >1000 bucks a year per
         | person.
         | 
         | The only way to pull that off is to keep injecting more and
         | more ads everywhere and make everything more tempting to watch.
         | 
         | The biggest threat to these companies is if time spent
         | consuming media drops.
        
           | benjiro wrote:
           | Here is my question. Who is paying for it all to get to a
           | 1000 bucks bounty per person / year?
           | 
           | The same question, who is paying for all the data collection
           | they do on customers?
           | 
           | You keep hearing about xxx billion dollar industries but
           | where is that money coming from? The add and data collection
           | industry in the US is probably a trillion dollar market or
           | more, but ... does it really work? Sure, focused ads on some
           | youtube channel about product that may be of interest, but
           | all the rest is such a mess.
           | 
           | I do not buy more stuff because some ads showed up. Sure,
           | they can be informative that there is a new car released, or
           | something like that. But there is no desire to buy XXX
           | cleaning product because they spammed it on TV.
           | 
           | Same argument with "what use is getting all my personal data,
           | down to the things we do in bed". Sell it to specific
           | companies? But what do they really gain from it. It does not
           | feel like we are getting better products as a result of all
           | that user data. O, people are not happy about Y product. You
           | do not need invasive data collection for that, you see it in
           | your revenue numbers.
           | 
           | It often feels like a lot of industries are just there to
           | self sustain themselves. Nobody ever got fired for buying
           | advertisement or personalized data. So companies keep
           | spending on it, people keep pouring over the data, analyzing
           | it, but its like nobody has common sense and its all a scam
           | that inner feed itself.
           | 
           | I am not saying that advertisement does not work to grow a
           | product, but especially unknow one's but the moment product
           | reach a specific mass...
        
             | joules77 wrote:
             | When you look at the $$$ on hourly basis rather than yearly
             | it all drops to cents. Basically its become very cheap to
             | flood everyone with ads. And since Attention is a scarce
             | resource we get everyone who wants to capture attention
             | trapped in an arms race for it.
             | 
             | The big threat to the whole system is when the amount of
             | time per day people spend consuming media starts to drop
             | thanks to fatigue and finding better things to do.
        
           | majormajor wrote:
           | You don't need more advertising to get the revenue to keep
           | rising.
           | 
           | All you need is two things:
           | 
           | 1) a zero-sum game where the amount spent by companies on
           | advertising is less than their profit margin
           | 
           | 2) advertising channels that perform in a way that can be
           | correlated with short-term outcomes
           | 
           | "We can afford to up our ad spend by 0.5% to try to gain an
           | edge."
           | 
           | You juice your market share or total sales numbers for a
           | quarter, everyone is happy.
           | 
           | Then your competitor does the same.
           | 
           | Assuming your advertising is equally effective, you may have
           | netted out to about where you started. But you've both
           | ratcheted up your spend and likely won't reduce that short of
           | a macro change or parent company health issues.
           | 
           | And if certain advertising performs better than others, one
           | company can very well make long-term gains here, if they have
           | writers and producers and talent who are making more
           | compelling pitches.
           | 
           | But it still ramps up the total advertising industry spend
           | even with a fixed supply of ad capacity, if it gets a bidding
           | war going.
           | 
           | As long as you don't have 100% market share with 0
           | competitors, advertising will look like a very compelling
           | short-term ROI option.
           | 
           | Even if time spent watching media drops it may not squeeze a
           | lot of parts of the advertising sector so hard - it'll just
           | push demand into smaller buckets which will increase the
           | prices for those buckets. Look at the crazy revenue sports
           | television broadcast advertising has been doing as other
           | forms of TV go away with commercial skipping or lower-ad-load
           | streaming.
           | 
           | Of course, at SOME point the increases can't be sustained.
           | Even the most profitable products have a limit to how much
           | money could be possibly directed towards advertising. But we
           | don't appear to be particularly close to demand being
           | satisfied.
        
             | nitwit005 wrote:
             | I personally suspect in many industries there is a sort of
             | informal agreement about what is reasonable spending on
             | sales and marketing.
             | 
             | If any single company spends more, and succeeds in gaining
             | advantage purely by spending more, all their competitors
             | will generally just be forced to follow.
             | 
             | But, no one really wants to follow that to the logical
             | conclusion of spending all possible dollars on marketing.
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | > But, no one really wants to follow that to the logical
               | conclusion of spending all possible dollars on marketing.
               | 
               | Sure, just like nobody wants to spend all possible
               | dollars on rent.
               | 
               | But outside of "we just can't afford it anymore" external
               | economic factors shocking the system, the natural
               | incentives point to a slow and constant ratcheting up.
               | 
               | IMO this would be a good reason to have further
               | regulations on advertising - locations, frequency,
               | accuracy - since we're gonna be saturated with it
               | otherwise.
        
           | whatever1 wrote:
           | It would be nice if we could cut the middle men and let the
           | companies send us directly checks. I would love to be getting
           | a 1000$ advertising check per year.
           | 
           | They pay the same, I will keep buying whatever my friends
           | suggest me to buy. Win - Win
        
         | ElisaChemy wrote:
         | Totally agree,I think things got incrementally worse after
         | TikTok's release though. It's like the content (including ads)
         | is getting so chaotic and overstimulating that I walk away
         | feeling mentally exhausted. All of it is just noise designed to
         | hijack attention for a few seconds.
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | There may be something interesting here to think about, but I'd
       | argue that the following statement is literally much more useful
       | than that entire article.
       | 
       | "When advertising, appealing to emotion is much more important
       | than information or logic."
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | I love that this reduces to math a "special theory of
       | enshittification" because it describes how no-name vendors can
       | profit from the "general theory of enshittification" put forth by
       | Doctorow that describes the platform monopolies like Amazon under
       | which the vendors operate.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | >Ratings compression Star ratings on major platforms increasingly
       | cluster between 4.3 and 4.9, leaving buyers little room to
       | distinguish products.
       | 
       | Last year I was skimming through IKEA furniture and majority of
       | reviews are 4 or 5 stars. And that makes me think that people who
       | don't like IKEA products are either so pissed that they do not
       | want leave 1 star review or IKEA removes bad reviews.
        
         | Tijdreiziger wrote:
         | I've definitely seen IKEA products with bad reviews.
        
       | somat wrote:
       | > "Star ratings on major platforms increasingly cluster between
       | 4.3 and 4.9, leaving buyers little room to distinguish products."
       | 
       | The good ol' 7 out of 10 problem. Where the entire lower half of
       | the rating system is unused.
       | 
       | The way I solve it is to have 0 be the middle, If the transaction
       | exceeded expectations you can give it a +1 if it failed to meet
       | them give it a -1 (thumbs up/down if you prefer) you can even
       | throw in a +-2 if you want to allow for more subtlety of
       | expression
        
         | semitones wrote:
         | and now all of your reviews will cluster around 0.7-0.9. And
         | what will you have accomplished?
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | Reviews are basically useless today. I'm sorry but it is true.
       | Pick any hobby you deeply understand enough to not require
       | handholding by a reviewer, and watch the reviews about that
       | segment. It is a joke, pure PR. "This one is good but this one is
       | pretty gooder" None of these sponsored reviewers want to bite the
       | hand that feeds them and gives them free product to review for
       | their channel. They never go very deep into anything. Classic
       | Gell-Mann amnesia
       | 
       | Customer reviews are also useless. 10 people go 5/5 no comment.
       | One guy goes 3/5 "good thing." ???? Another person didn't hold it
       | right and rated it 1/5, another person got a defective product
       | customer service would have replaced if they had reached out and
       | rated it 1/5.
       | 
       | IMO the solution is doing actual due dilligence. What is the spec
       | sheet? What is actually relevant to what I am doing? How was this
       | thing made? What are the tradeoffs of using this technique in in
       | this product vs other techniques? Where does this featureset
       | stand against other offerings in this segment and pricepoint?
       | 
       | You can do all of this yourself from the primary materials, the
       | product pages, etc. It also doesn't take longer than you'd spend
       | agonizing over yet another half dozen 20 minute review videos.
       | And you'd end up better informed than most content producers,
       | most customer reviewers, even most redditors on the relevant
       | subreddit.
       | 
       | You operate along these lines and all 5 friction points mentioned
       | in the article become irrelevant. You don't give a shit about the
       | brand, you care about the merits of the component. Prolific
       | advertisement is no longer required as a signal for quality since
       | you are actually evaluating the merits of the component directly
       | and not using proxy signals. Return status also doesn't matter
       | because you are evaluating the merits of the component directly.
       | Ratings don't matter. Pricepoint also doesn't matter because you
       | don't include price in your analysis save for comparing
       | capabilities across a price point vs assuming costly product =
       | better.
       | 
       | And of course maybe you are bad at estimating a components merit.
       | Maybe you are suffering from Dunning Krueger effect. For most
       | things in life this hardly also matters because the effective
       | difference between a most optimal product and one that is merely
       | good enough is basically zero especially when you lack the
       | ability to determine the differences between perfect and good
       | enough (probably means that precision is not required for you use
       | case).
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-07-19 23:01 UTC)