[HN Gopher] Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech R...
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       Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models Tech Report 2025
        
       Author : 2bit
       Score  : 130 points
       Date   : 2025-07-17 18:09 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (machinelearning.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (machinelearning.apple.com)
        
       | leot wrote:
       | The dozens of "contributors" being presented in random order is,
       | one would suppose, an anti-poaching tactic?
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | It's hard to know what it isn't for certain but there are many
         | other reasons papers list contributors in a flat structure (be
         | it random or alphabetical order). Particularly with large
         | numbers of collaborators.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | "References" section sort of narrows the field anyway.
        
         | rafram wrote:
         | Not very hard to look people up on LinkedIn and figure out who
         | the core researchers are. I think this is just a very surface-
         | level overview paper that encompasses a bunch of different
         | research projects conducted by different teams, and it would be
         | difficult to order the contributors in any meaningful way.
        
         | browningstreet wrote:
         | As someone whose last name is near the end of the alphabet,
         | that's not the first presumption I had seeing that page.
        
         | ml-anon wrote:
         | Well meta already got Ruoming so he can obviously give them a
         | ranked list of who to grab.
         | 
         | Most of his team are former Google brain so GDM knows who is
         | good.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | I wonder if we'll see these models running on the phone (aiPhone)
       | hardware in the future.
        
         | kingnothing wrote:
         | > The new Foundation Models framework gives access to
         | developers to start creating their own reliable, production-
         | quality generative AI features with the approximately 3B
         | parameter on-device language model. The ~3B language foundation
         | model at the core of Apple Intelligence excels at a diverse
         | range of text tasks like summarization, entity extraction, text
         | understanding, refinement, short dialog, generating creative
         | content, and more. While we have specialized our on-device
         | model for these tasks, it is not designed to be a chatbot for
         | general world knowledge. We encourage app developers to use
         | this framework to design helpful features tailored to their
         | apps
        
         | Zee2 wrote:
         | > a ~3B-parameter on-device model
        
           | ThomasBb wrote:
           | There are even already some local AFM to Open AI API bridge
           | project on GitHub - that lets you point basically any Open AI
           | compatible client at the local models. Super nice for basic
           | summarisation and completions.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | I was worried "device" was a Mac mini, not an iPhone. (I
           | already have been running models on my MacBook Pro.)
        
         | floam wrote:
         | It does. You can use it directly on iOS 26 beta - without
         | writing a line of code I can toy with the on-device model
         | through Shortcuts on my 16 Pro. It's not meant to be a general
         | purpose chatbot... but it can work as a general purpose chatbot
         | in airplane mode which is a novel experience.
         | 
         | https://share.icloud.com/photos/018AYAPEm06ALXciiJAsLGyuA
         | 
         | https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f9IzuYQwmhLIcUIhIuDiudFw
         | 
         | The above took like 3 seconds to generate. That little box that
         | says On-device can be flipped between On-device, Private Cloud
         | Compute, and ChatGPT.
         | 
         | Their LLM uses the ANE sipping battery and leaves the GPU
         | available.
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | It would be interesting to see the tok/s comparison between
           | the ANE and GPU for inference. I bet these small models are a
           | lot friendlier than the 7B/12B models that _technically_ fit
           | on a phone but won 't accelerate well without a GPU.
        
             | gleenn wrote:
             | I thought the big difference between the GPU and ANE was
             | that you couldn't use the ANE to train. Does the GPU
             | actually perform faster during inference as well? Is that
             | because the ANE are designed more for efficiency or is
             | there another bigger reason?
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | GPUs are usually faster for inference simply because they
               | have more ALUs/FPUs but they are also less efficient.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Wild to see what improvements might come if there is
           | additional hardware support in future Apple Silicon chips.
        
           | ivape wrote:
           | What's the cost of pointing it to Private Cloud Compute? It
           | can't be free, can it?
        
         | alwillis wrote:
         | As someone mentioned, this model is available in the beta
         | version of iOS 26; it's also part of macOS 26, iPadOS 26 and
         | visionOS 26. Anyone with a free developer account can install
         | the developer betas; the public beta is expected next week.
         | 
         | There's a WWDC video "Meet the Foundation Models Framework"
         | [1].
         | 
         | [1]: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/286
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | Every time I see a paper from Apple I just feel like, OK so why
       | isn't my iPhone actually doing any of this yet?
       | 
       | Why give this to developers if you haven't been able to get Siri
       | to use it yet? Does it not work or something? I guess we'll find
       | out when devs start trying to make stuff
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | > why isn't my iPhone actually doing any of this yet?
         | 
         | Probably Apple is trying to distill the models so they can run
         | on your phone _locally_. Remember, most, if not all, of Siri is
         | running on your device. There 's no round trip whatsoever for
         | voice processing.
         | 
         | Also, for larger models, there will be throwaway VMs per
         | request, so building that infra takes time.
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | It says there's 2 models - one local. It's already released
           | to app developers to use locally I think (it was in the
           | keynote for WWDC).
        
             | geoffpado wrote:
             | The model now available to developers (in beta, not in
             | released versions of iOS) is the same model that powers
             | stuff like the much-maligned notification summaries from
             | iOS 18. So your phone _does_ have features that are powered
             | by this stuff... you may just not be particularly
             | overwhelmed by those features.
        
               | jonplackett wrote:
               | That's kinda my point though - is this only capable of
               | things like this? If it ia capable of more, why isn't
               | there something more yet, it's been a long time
               | waiting...
        
         | imoverclocked wrote:
         | > why isn't my iPhone actually doing any of this yet?
         | 
         | What exactly are you referring to? Models do run on iPhone and
         | there are features that take advantage of it, today.
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | None of those features are in any way interesting though.
           | Image playground is a joke, Siri is a joke, that generative
           | emoji thing is a joke.
           | 
           | The AI stuff with photography sure, but that's more like
           | machine learning.
           | 
           | The photo touch up thing is... useable? Sometimes?
           | 
           | What is it you've been so impressed with?
        
       | perfmode wrote:
       | > We believe in training our models using diverse and high-
       | quality data. This includes data that we've licensed from
       | publishers, curated from publicly available or open- sourced
       | datasets, and publicly available information crawled by our web-
       | crawler, Applebot.
       | 
       | > We do not use our users' private personal data or user
       | interactions when training our foundation models. Additionally,
       | we take steps to apply filters to remove certain categories of
       | personally identifiable information and to exclude profanity and
       | unsafe material.
       | 
       | > Further, we continue to follow best practices for ethical web
       | crawling, including following widely-adopted robots.txt protocols
       | to allow web publishers to opt out of their content being used to
       | train Apple's generative foundation models. Web publishers have
       | fine-grained controls over which pages Applebot can see and how
       | they are used while still appearing in search results within Siri
       | and Spotlight.
       | 
       | Respect.
        
         | bitpush wrote:
         | When Apple inevitably partners with OpenAI or Anthropic, which
         | by their definition isnt doing "ethical crawling", I wonder how
         | I should be reading that.
        
           | jhickok wrote:
           | They already partnered with OpenAI, right?
        
             | DSingularity wrote:
             | To use their APIs at a discount, so what?
        
               | JimDabell wrote:
               | Apple aren't paying OpenAI anything:
               | 
               | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-12/apple-
               | to-...
        
               | sharkjacobs wrote:
               | That's a big discount
        
               | badwolf wrote:
               | That's quite a discount! ;)
        
           | fridder wrote:
           | Same way as the other parts of their supply chain I suppose.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | In theory Apple could provide their training data to be used
           | by OpenAI/Anthropic.
        
             | bitpush wrote:
             | It isn't "apple proprietary" data to give it to OpenAI.
             | 
             | Also the bigger problem is, you can't train a good model
             | with smaller data. The model would be subpar.
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | One problem with Apple's approach here is that they were
         | scraping the web for training data long before they published
         | the details of their activities and told people how to exclude
         | them using robots.txt
        
           | dijit wrote:
           | Uncharitable.
           | 
           | Robots.txt is _already_ the understood mechanism for getting
           | _robots_ to avoid scraping a website.
        
             | simonw wrote:
             | People often use specific user agents in there, which is
             | hard if you don't know what the user agents are in advance!
        
               | wat10000 wrote:
               | If you're using a specific user agent, then you're saying
               | "I want this specific user agent to follow this rule, and
               | not any others." Don't be surprised when a new bot does
               | what you say! If you don't want any bots reading
               | something, use a wildcard.
        
       | JacobJack wrote:
       | I'd really like to be able to use this 3B model on my little 4GB
       | GPU card! It looks very capable for a reasonable weight. Maybe
       | one day on HhuggingFace
        
       | frankfrank13 wrote:
       | AFAICT this is the first commercial model _trying_ to be marketed
       | as responsibly-sourced. Love it, but it also seems like the noise
       | around this issue has died down. Is this for legal cover? Or more
       | apple-privacy marketing
        
         | Daedren wrote:
         | Stockholders are suing them over Apple Intelligence. Definitely
         | legal cover.
        
         | msgodel wrote:
         | Do people have an issue with the smollm datasets? I guess it
         | isn't really commercial.
        
       | jiehong wrote:
       | Looks nice. I just wish they'd improve the models behind
       | dictation on both iPhone and Mac to have better accuracy and on
       | the fly multiple language transcription.
        
       | poszlem wrote:
       | In the meantime, when I ask Siri to set a timer for 15 minutes,
       | about 10-15% of the time it just says, "Here's what I found about
       | setting a timer for 15 minutes," instead of actually setting the
       | timer"
        
       | mittermayr wrote:
       | All I can say is, I asked Siri today (verbatim): What is 75
       | degrees fahrenheit in celsius, and what is 85 degrees in
       | fahrenheit -- and it offered a web search about fahrenheit. The
       | "and" completely disabled its most basic ability to do metric
       | conversions.
       | 
       | So, it's nice to see Apple is doing research and talking about
       | it, but we're out here waiting, still waiting, for anything
       | useful to make of it all on our thousand-dollar devices that
       | literally connect us to the world and contain our entire life
       | data. It's what I would've expected from one of the most valuable
       | companies in the world.
        
         | basisword wrote:
         | >> What is 75 degrees fahrenheit in celsius, and what is 85
         | degrees in fahrenheit
         | 
         | Probably wouldn't have made a difference but the second half of
         | that statement isn't exactly clear. 85 degrees what?
         | 
         | I also think when you're chaining these two separate
         | calculations together you get a problem when it comes to
         | displaying the results.
        
           | bronco21016 wrote:
           | Meanwhile users have been conditioned to expect a system that
           | understand the multiple queries and answers them
           | appropriately.
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | True. But for most of us, only in the past year. I have a
             | few friends/relatives who have still never conversed with
             | an LLM.
        
           | vosper wrote:
           | That exact phrase "What is 75 degrees fahrenheit in celsius,
           | and what is 85 degrees in fahrenheit" given to ChatGPT
           | produces the correct result (it infers that the second
           | degrees must be Celsius) and ChatGPT gives me a nicely laid
           | out formula for the math of the conversion.
           | 
           | So yeah, Apple is way behind on this stuff.
        
           | seydor wrote:
           | the fact is that gemini responds with this: 75 degrees
           | Fahrenheit is 23.89 degrees Celsius, and 85 degrees Celsius
           | is 185.00 degrees Fahrenheit.
        
         | losvedir wrote:
         | > _What is 75 degrees fahrenheit in celsius, and what is 85
         | degrees in fahrenheit_
         | 
         | Err, what? As a native English speaker human that's a pretty
         | confusing question to me, too!
        
       | sneilan1 wrote:
       | I feel like this is the most exciting news today about AI on hn.
       | I really hope apple shows that small models can be just as
       | capable as the bigger ones. Maybe they have the people on
       | perplexity working on these small models.
        
       | bitpush wrote:
       | The more I think about Apple, the more I realize that Apple is so
       | far behind. While other companies are pushing the envelope
       | (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google ..) Apple's ambitions seem much much
       | smaller.
       | 
       | And this is after they made very big claims with Apple
       | Intelligence last year, when they had everyone fooled.
       | 
       | This is like watching a train-wreck in slow motion.
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | Only if you think they _must_ compete with large models on the
         | internet.
        
           | Uehreka wrote:
           | I wouldn't go as far as GP, but yes, absolutely, they must
           | compete with large models on the internet. Customers are now
           | used to being able to ask a computer a question and get
           | something better than "I just ran a web search for what you
           | said, here are the uncurated, unsummarized results".
           | 
           | Yes, this is in fact what people want. Apple is the biggest
           | company in the world (don't quibble this y'all, you know what
           | I mean) and should be able to deliver this experience. And
           | sure, if they could do it on device that would be aces, but
           | that's not an item on the menu, and customers seem fine with
           | web-based things like ChatGPT for now. To act like Apple is
           | doing anything other than fumbling right now is cope.
        
             | GeekyBear wrote:
             | > I wouldn't go as far as GP, but yes, absolutely, they
             | must compete with large models on the internet
             | 
             | The people running large models want to charge a monthly
             | fee for that.
             | 
             | I'm fine with having a free model that runs on device
             | without slurping up my data.
        
           | specialist wrote:
           | I'm fine with Apple chilling on the sidelines for a bit.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I see it as the opposite. Apple is absolutely positioned to own
         | "chat". I am not worried they'll soon sort things out -- and
         | eventually we'll have an LLM integrated into the iPhone; call
         | it Siri or otherwise.
         | 
         | With my history encrypted in the cloud, and the trust that
         | Apple has built around privacy ... I think they're going to
         | come out alright.
        
           | martinald wrote:
           | But they have de facto admitted failure of most of the
           | strategy if the rumours are true that they are switching much
           | harder to OpenAI/Anthropic for upcoming LLM products.
           | 
           | This is the first time in 10+ years I've seen Apple so far on
           | the back foot. They usually launch category defining products
           | that are so far ahead of the competition, even by the time
           | they work through the 'drawbacks' in the first versions of
           | them they are still far ahead. OS X, the iPhone and the iPad
           | were all like that. They are still way ahead of the
           | competition on Apple Silicon as well.
           | 
           | I am not very confident on their on device strategy at least
           | in the short to medium term. Nearly all their devices do not
           | have enough RAM and even if they did SLMs are very far behind
           | what users "know" as AI - even the free ChatGPT plan is leap
           | years ahead of the best 3B param on device model. Maybe there
           | will be huge efficiency gains.
           | 
           | Private cloud is used AFIAK for virtually 0 use cases so far.
           | Perhaps it will be more interesting longer term but not very
           | useful at the moment given the lack of a suitable (ie: non
           | Chinese), large (>500b param) model. They would also struggle
           | to scale it if they roll it out to billions of iOS devices
           | especially if they put features that use a lot of tokens.
           | 
           | Then they've got OpenAI/Gemini/Anthropic via API. But this
           | completely goes against all their private cloud messaging and
           | gives those providers enormous potential control over Apple,
           | which is not a position Apple usually finds itself in. It
           | will also be extremely expensive to pay someone per token for
           | OS level features for billions of iOS/Mac devices and unless
           | they can recoup this via some sort of subscription will hit
           | services margins badly.
           | 
           | To me its clear the future of "OS" is going to involve a lot
           | of agentic tool calling. These require good models, with
           | large context windows and a lot of tokens - this will
           | definitely not work on device. Indeed this is exactly what
           | the Siri vapourware demo was.
           | 
           | I'm sure they can potentially get to a great UX (though these
           | missteps are making me question this). But having such a core
           | feature outsourced does not leave them in a good position.
        
         | visarga wrote:
         | The paper was a very nice read, and they did many creative
         | things. It's a pity this model won't be directly accessible,
         | only integrated in some apps.
        
           | alwillis wrote:
           | > It's a pity this model won't be directly accessible, only
           | integrated in some apps.
           | 
           | It's already accessible using Shortcuts, even to non-
           | developers "iOS 26 Shortcuts + Apple Intelligence is POWERFUL
           | " (Youtube) [1].
           | 
           | [1]: https://youtu.be/Msde-lZwOxg?si=KJqTgtWjpdNDxneh
        
         | halJordan wrote:
         | Apple's ambitions are actually bigger than openai or
         | anthropopic. Only Google's ambition (surprise surprise) is
         | similar. Apple fundamentally wants the llm to be a tool. It
         | doesn't want the llm to be the product.
        
       | chevman wrote:
       | Siri is literally a joke!
       | 
       | My son (he's 11 years old now and fairly skilled with all the
       | main AI tools, eg chatgpt, gemini, etc) and I retry her every
       | month or so, and this past time we just laughed. Can't handle
       | basic questions - hears the question wrong, starts, stops, takes
       | us to some random ass webpage, etc, etc.
       | 
       | "She's so jacked up!" he said.
       | 
       | Apple needs to get this under control and figured out, stat!
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | Here is my question...
       | 
       | This is the first time that millions of people will actually
       | download and run a model on their own devices.
       | 
       | The question is... will Apple be constantly tweaking these
       | models, or only during OS upgrades?
       | 
       | I for one really like local software. Call me old-fashioned, but
       | I enjoy when a company doesn't switch up software anytime on the
       | server, or phone the results home all the time in order to
       | extract more profits from their collective users.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | The model is gigabytes so I doubt they will push updates
         | frequently.
        
       | ApolloVonZ wrote:
       | Despite all the "Apple is evil" or "Apple is behind" (because
       | they don't do evil). Well, what they made with the Foundation
       | Model is great. The fact that they build a system within the
       | Swift language that allows you to specify structured data models
       | (structs) to be used like any other model in a modern programming
       | language, and you actually get back generated data in that format
       | is great. Unlike a lot of other AIs where you might get back a
       | well formatted JSON after a carefully crafted request, but still
       | you never can't be sure and need to implement a bunch of
       | safeguards. Obviously it's still the beginning and other tools
       | might do something similar. But as an iOS developer that makes
       | the usage of AI so much simpler. Especially with the bridge to
       | external AIs that still allows you to map back to the type safe
       | structured Swift models. I try not to be a hater, every progress,
       | even slow or underwhelming at first might lead to improvements
       | everywhere else.
        
         | 0x457 wrote:
         | Guided generation is called "Structured Output" by other
         | providers?
         | 
         | Well partially generated content streaming thing is great and I
         | haven't seen it anywhere else.
        
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