[HN Gopher] I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)
___________________________________________________________________
I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)
Author : asimops
Score : 427 points
Date : 2025-07-16 21:01 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (smallandroidphone.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (smallandroidphone.com)
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| With a battery that can be swapped rapidly without tools. Bonus
| points for pogo pins like a Samsung XCover phone.
|
| Smaller size means smaller battery, but that's mitigated by the
| above. I want utilitarian. I don't want a phablet. I want
| practical and unobtrusive. The smartwatch was meant to replace
| the phone, but doesn't hit the right notes for me.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| foldables are possibly good for this, I'm considering the fold
| 7 personally
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| I'm definitely open to the idea of foldables or even flip
| phones (perhaps even enthused!). I'm gutted that the Japanese
| "Galapagos syndrome" keitei are becoming extinct with fewer
| and fewer releases each year. The ones that are newly
| available tend to run Android 10 (yikes). The keitei were
| always very tasteful, ergonomic, and sensible. Sure, not
| always flashy in specs, but they didn't need to be when they
| prioritized the form above everything. Would love for the
| rest of the world to pick up this dropped ball and run with
| it.
| dimitri_deploys wrote:
| I've also been interested in this but a little at sea when
| it comes to navigating the alternate dimension of Japanese
| flip phones. Do you have any recommendations when it comes
| to identifying the last best example of the Japanese flip
| phone?
| Liftyee wrote:
| Neat, I wasn't aware of that kind of Japanese flip phone
| before. Seems like one of the few phones I'd use without a
| case these days.
|
| I wonder if any were ever designed with a ThinkPad like
| aesthetic.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| (sorry, meant the flip 7)
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| In past lives, I've clung to 3.5mm jacks and battery swaps
| (although I consider myself much reformed, yes I maybe would
| buy an updated LG v20 if one were released: that was an
| amazingly built metal slate of a phone with both. Just hot and
| slow, on that Snapdragon 820).
|
| Today, bluetooth works quite well for me (I love not having
| cables... but it sucks that performance with a microphone is
| trashfire). 3.5mm adapters are cheap and easy when needed
| (rarely. I also have a $10 bluetooth->3.5mm in my travel kit
| that does get used once a year!). And with usb-c providing fast
| charging, I rarely feel like I'd benefit from battery swaps. I
| can give myself 50%+ in 30 minutes, with a portable battery
| that will power not just my phone, but any other device I run
| into. With Qi 2.2 releasing with 25W wireless charging, and
| magnetic coupling being standard now, you don't even need wires
| anymore. Carrying a bespoke phone-only battery seems like a
| massive downgrade today. (It also felt like a massive fire
| hazard!) Time to update your expectations!
|
| Worth mentioning that battery swaps make water-resistance much
| much trickier to pull off. There' a real cost to battery-
| swappability.
|
| I do wish we saw something like Ara, some phone modularity &
| extensibility. Fairphone has some modular parts, but it doesn't
| feel like an open ecosystem, and the parts dont seem super
| designed for expansion but more just replacement. I guess maybe
| Framework is doing the best work, albeit in a bigger form
| factor space, with their Expansion Cards, which are basically
| just a card form factor USB-C. Licensed CC-BY-4.
| https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
| grishka wrote:
| My first Android phone was an HTC Desire S. It had a rather
| sturdy metal case with some plastic inserts for the antennas.
| The bottom insert slid off to reveal the battery and SIM and SD
| slots. The only downside is that because of this construction
| it has the USB port on the side. I used it way beyond official
| support by installing custom ROMs, but eventually apps got so
| bloated it couldn't run them without frustrating me.
|
| So, uh, can I please have _that_ but with a more modern SoC and
| a non-potato camera?
| rtpg wrote:
| I've come around on swapping batteries, and have decided that
| external battery packs are the way to go. Works on more
| devices, and you're not buying batteries that work on exactly
| one device.
|
| Still want my phone battery to be replaceable, but I'm pretty
| fine with not being able to do it myself.
| oc1 wrote:
| just get a larger phone and you don't have to carry bulky
| battery packs.
| rtpg wrote:
| but I can have a smaller phone and also use the battery
| pack to charge my spouse's phone, not just my own
| oc1 wrote:
| only if she prefers also smaller phones
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| Unfortunately this still hasn't happened yet. There are almost no
| good options for reasonable size Androids anymore. Zenfone 10 is
| pretty good, especially with the headphone jack, but it's already
| out of print and will be obsolete before long. And smaller would
| be nicer.
|
| Any other current gen recommendations?
| wmf wrote:
| Zenfone 10 isn't even small; it's 2.5 mm narrower than an S25.
| krater23 wrote:
| Unihertz JellyStar. Has a headphone jack too.
| dmonitor wrote:
| 3" sounds like a novelty, but the Jelly Max seems a bit more
| reasonable at 5". Cool company.
| kbrackbill wrote:
| I tried with a Jelly Max but despite what they say it doesn't
| work on verizon :(. It's the perfect phone for me otherwise.
| barrkel wrote:
| I had to make this decision yesterday and picked Galaxy S25. A
| lot lighter than my work Pixel 9.
| imp0cat wrote:
| Seconded. Unfortunately the latest leaks suggest that the
| next gen - S26 - will be a bit bigger.
|
| https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-
| galaxy-s26-screen-s...
| mc3301 wrote:
| blackview n6000. Bombproof. Cheap. Almost a week's battery
| life.
| ChrisRR wrote:
| People recommending Zenfone just proves that marketing works on
| a lot of people. It's literally only a few mm smaller than a
| standard flagship samsung and yet the small phone crowd
| recommends it as if it's tiny
| koiueo wrote:
| A few mm smaller is the best we can get.
|
| Also don't forget to account for case to protect that
| beautiful glossy slippery fragile back of your Samsung phone.
|
| ZF doesn't need any case.
| RichardCA wrote:
| I went through the same process as a former Pixel 5 user.
|
| Ended up with Galaxy S25 which weighs around 165g.
|
| I pretty much hate Samsung for the One UI interface taking away
| the stock Android experience. If I could turn it all off I'd do
| it in a heartbeat.
|
| But I put up with it because there is no other Android phone in
| 2025 that meets all the checkboxes (less than ~180g, supports
| all the current LTE and 5G comms, supported by the vendor).
| pclowes wrote:
| My cynical take is that small phones don't exist because they are
| not the product. Similar to vape pens the product is the
| addictive substance the device loads. In this case its apps and
| ads. A smaller screen probably negatively impacts KPIs on many
| levels, at Google/Apple/Meta/X and on down through the ecosystem.
|
| I understand that Apple did not make enough money to make it
| worth their while to continue the iphone mini line. However, it
| does seem like there is a profitable business for someone there
| given how beloved it was/is.
|
| I only traded out my iphone 12 mini just recently for an iphone
| 16 pro (likely the last apple product I will ever buy but thats
| another story) and aside from the camera it is basically the
| same. Just heavier, awkward to hold and slightly worse designed.
|
| No major player wants a smaller screen because it has downstream
| impacts on the pipeline of addictive material and ad pixels they
| can stuff into ocular nerves.
| abujazar wrote:
| Agreed. I'd prefer a modern iPhone the size of an iPhone 4, it
| was perfegt. I made the same "upgrade" from 12 mini to 16 Pro,
| and the 16 Pro is so large and heavy. Feels like we're moving
| backwards in time.
| walterbell wrote:
| 2026 iPhone Fold is rumored iPhone Mini size unfolding to
| iPad Mini size.
|
| https://9to5mac.com/2025/04/28/iphone-18-fold-details-
| launch...
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Folding phones don't solve the problem of oversized phones,
| which is that they are awkward and cumbersome to use.
| walterbell wrote:
| Some customers want a phone the size of iPhone Mini,
| rumored to be sold for $2K+ by Apple in 2026.
| notpushkin wrote:
| Hmmm, so there will be decent small screens produced in
| 2026, and it would be feasible to make small phones
| around them?
| theshackleford wrote:
| > they are awkward and cumbersome to use.
|
| For you. As someone with large hands, I appreciate that
| phones grew in size and I swapped to larger devices as
| soon as I could.
| const_cast wrote:
| For... well, most people. Half of people are women, so I
| don't know how they do it. I'm a man, with man hands, and
| modern phones are not one hand operable. You need two
| hands. Even if you can do a particular operation with one
| hand, the phone is unsteady and it's awkward.
|
| I think people with large hands are definitely the
| minority. So, we're not optimizing for hand size. We're
| optimizing for engagement, I think.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| It was observed a long time ago on HN that women, with
| their tiny hands, loved huge phones - since they were
| using small phones two-handed anyway - and it was the men
| who complained that small, one-handed phones stopped
| being sold.
| const_cast wrote:
| Depends on how you define small. I we're talking back in
| the era of 3 inch screens, I doubt this.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > For... well, most people.
|
| You don't speak for most people. You can only speak for
| yourself. The feelings of "Most people" are clear as
| demonstrated by the market; they not only find large
| phones fine, they find them preferable.
|
| > modern phones are not one hand operable
|
| So? I mean for me they are so it's irrelevant, but what
| should it matter if they are not? The market obviously
| does not share your interest in devices to be operated in
| such a manner as a priority or something of particular
| importance.
|
| That being said, it's of course unfortunate that if that
| _is_ your preference, that nothing in the market caters
| for it. Your preferences and wants are obviously entirely
| valid and it's a shame there is no interest even from a
| boutique vendor in meeting them.
|
| I have plenty of preferences for products that are not
| catered too, as I am sure is true for us all and of
| course I don't love it, but I must live in the reality
| that the larger market doesn't always want what I do.
|
| > We're optimizing for engagement
|
| The market is optimizing for what consumers asked for,
| which was larger devices. You say I am in a minority, I
| claim equally that you are in a minority as well.
| const_cast wrote:
| We are in agreement - you appear to be replying to my
| comment piece by piece without reading all of it.
|
| I'm speaking about the one-hand operability, which I then
| conclude must not be very important and obviously the
| market prefers something else.
|
| I will only address this part:
|
| > The market is optimizing for what consumers asked for
|
| This is hopelessly naive. This is true in the same sense
| that butane rings in cigarettes is optimizing for "what
| consumers asked for" - more pleasant to smoke cigarettes.
| Consumers don't know what they want, they're fed whatever
| is going to make the most money by advertisers. And they
| will like it, because there is no other choice.
|
| The market is not some perfectly rational machine. It is,
| often, a self-eating beast, concerned with it's own self-
| preservation to such a degree that it destroys itself.
| Had the Tobacco industry chilled, they wouldn't have been
| eviscerated by legislation. But no - they had to target
| children, they had to make the death sticks as addictive
| as possible. As if to put a bright flashing sign on
| themselves that says "look at me! Regulate me!"
| theshackleford wrote:
| > Consumers don't know what they want, they're fed
| whatever is going to make the most money by advertisers.
| And they will like it, because there is no other choice.
|
| Except we know this is not the reality in this case as
| the worlds most successful mobile device marketer has
| made multiple attempts to create and market smaller
| devices which time and time again the majority of
| consumers have rejected.
|
| The majority having a preference not matching your own
| doesn't need to be a conspiracy of consumer stupidity.
| Apple held out for a long time on making larger devices
| and ultimately caved to consumer sentiment, they didn't
| grow that sentiment, they reacted to it.
| const_cast wrote:
| Yes, again, similar to how a Tobacco consumer would
| reject older styles of Cigarettes. They were objectively
| worse - less nicotine, less impact on the brain, slower
| burning, and uneven burning. I used to smoke, ask me how
| I know.
|
| > conspiracy of consumer stupidity
|
| You misunderstand. Consumers aren't stupid, they're
| human. Human are remarkably easy to exploit. Exploiting
| the human mind is orders of magnitude easier than
| exploiting a computer.
|
| I mean, you put a shiny machine in front of a human and
| tell them there's little to no chance they'll win money
| and they'll destroy themselves in front of it. Drain
| their bank accounts, ruin their marriage. You don't even
| have to lie - you can tell them gambling is bad, you can
| tell them they won't win, but that doesn't actually
| affect the exploit. Monkey brain see bright light,
| dopamine hits.
|
| It's really quiet simple, and you're a market-minded man
| so you should be able to deduce this: it's all about
| incentives. You can continue to believe that the devices
| best for advertisers _also happen to be_ what consumers
| want most. I think it 's painfully naive, almost child-
| like.
|
| I mean, look at smart TVs. Why do we have those? Do
| consumers prefer them? Sure. Is it to everyone's benefit
| that consumers prefer it? Certainly. So then we must ask
| - how did consumers come to prefer them? Was it, maybe,
| forced? Were they, maybe, exploited?
|
| Just consider this. If I want to enter the Tobacco
| market, anywhere in the world, should I enter with a
| nicotine-free cigarette, or even a low-nicotine
| cigarette? Would those be successful? No, I think, the
| company would sink remarkably fast. We'd have no sales,
| consumers wouldn't buy it.
| echoangle wrote:
| You can't operate a regular iPhone 16 (147.6 mm x 71.6 mm
| x 7.8 mm) in one hand? I think you're the exception.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I don't have especially small hands and I can't stand my
| Nokia XR20 (which isn't even close to the biggest phone
| out there). If I can't reach every corner of the screen
| with my thumb while holding the phone, it's uncomfortable
| and unpleasant to use. Sadly that is most phones these
| days.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| At 193 cm in height, I have large hands too. I currently
| use a Zenfone 10 and a Galaxy S10e before that, and I can
| _grip_ them both just fine in one hand, but I can 't also
| control them with that same hand without awkward
| contortions and a reliance on gravity.
|
| The only phones I've had that I could comfortably use
| one-handed were my old BlackBerry Q10 (2013) and
| BlackBerry Classic (2014). The Q10 because it's short
| enough to hold between my thumb and ring finger such that
| I could use my index and middle fingers on the touch
| screen (slightly unorthodox but it worked really well),
| and the larger Classic because it has an optical thumbpad
| and excellent software support for it (it was so good I
| rarely used the touch screen at all). And both had
| physical keyboards.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| I hope they instead (or also) make a flip version opening
| up to at most the size of a regular iPhone.
| layer8 wrote:
| It's not iPhone mini sized, the outer screen is wider than
| even a Pro Max, and it will likely be heavier than a Pro.
|
| See here for dimensions and mockups:
| https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rumoured-iphone-fold-
| si...
| ksec wrote:
| That is actually what I have in mind and a much better
| design. Current Foldable are too tall.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| .
| Liftyee wrote:
| Out of curiosity, why's it your last Apple product?
|
| Watching lots of Louis Rossmann has put me almost ideologically
| against Apple (even though they design great hardware and
| smooth UX within their ecosystem), but I'm not good at forming
| coherent points to present to Apple loving friends.
|
| For me so far, I think it's about control over what I buy - but
| the rebuttal is always "you're buying a product from them, if
| you don't like it then tough".
| pclowes wrote:
| I just don't see the value add anymore and the company
| appears to have lost its product vision and the design
| sensibilities are slipping. Apple is controlled by a
| geriatric board and a logistics expert and it shows.
|
| I feel I am more frequently encountering software bugs,
| vaporware,(dESiGnEd fOr ApPle InTelLiGeNce), and ridiculous
| "innovation" (genmoji). I feel the hardware advances are not
| very relevant to me, I don't need VR or augmented reality. I
| want a computer to get out of my way and solve problems for
| me so I can spend time in plain old reality. The hardware
| upgrades I DO care about are ridiculously overpriced (Ram
| upgrades are abusively expensive).
|
| While I prefer my computer to be a tool to get a job done and
| don't want the computer itself to be a hobby. I also do not
| want to be forced to use AI. I also dislike the rent seeking
| and toolbooth behavior of iMessage and the App store. Now
| that linux has more paved paths, things increasingly "just
| work" and hardware has basically caught up I don't see a good
| reason to support Apple's non-vision with my money.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| What Linux computer can you buy with the battery life,
| quietness, lack of heat and speed of a modern ARM based
| Mac?
|
| As far as phones - your alternative is to buy an Android
| phone with an operating system by an ad company that is
| also pushing AI just as hard.
|
| And you still end up getting most apps from the Google Play
| Store.
|
| By the way, iMessage supports SMS/MMS/RCS for
| interoperability. What else do you want?
| pastage wrote:
| I have stopped caring so I caved in to work policy and
| got an iPhone, and I really do not see the point. It is
| just a thing no better or worse than an Android...
| xet7 wrote:
| > What Linux computer can you buy with the battery life,
| quietness, lack of heat and speed of a modern ARM based
| Mac?
|
| M1 Air or M2 Air, running Asahi Linux. I am posting this
| using my M1 Air, running Fedora Asahi.
|
| > As far as phones - your alternative is to buy an
| Android phone with an operating system by an ad company
| that is also pushing AI just as hard.
|
| I use Fairphone 4 with Ubuntu Touch.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| And you lose the battery life advantages by putting Linux
| on the Mac. Why even buy a Mac?
|
| As far as the Fairphone - poor battery life, bulky, poor
| camera, and the IP rating of 55 for water? Well at least
| it runs Linux.
| pclowes wrote:
| I think there are a lot of offerings out there now. Maybe
| not to the minute with respect to battery life but Apples
| chip advantage is steadily evaporating. I typically don't
| need more than 8 hours of battery personally.
|
| Have heard good things about framework computers. As a
| more efficient chip or battery comes out you just upgrade
| that component if your use case requires it.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| It's never been "just the chip" for major architectural
| changes even within x86. It's replacing the entire
| motherboard and surrounding components.
|
| What offerings are out there for speed/no fan (quiet)/and
| lack of heat with battery life?
| danieldk wrote:
| By the way, it's not a lack of heat in the Air. The M4
| will hit 105degC and start throttling pretty soon in
| sustained workloads. At any rate, modern Ryzen laptop
| CPUs have narrowed the gap with Apple Silicon
| performance-wise. It's mostly battery life that's still
| lagging behind. It not only requires a mainboard
| optimized for power use (which is pretty good nowadays on
| modern laptops), but also very strong OS integration. I
| am not sure if non-Apple laptops will get that far,
| because Linux and Windows simply have to target much more
| hardware.
|
| At any rate, non-Apple laptops have other benefits, like
| being able to get 64GiB/128GiB memory and large SSDs
| without breaking the bank.
|
| In the end it's all a trade-off. If you are a sales
| representative that needs all-day battery life, MacBook
| is probably the only option. If you are a developer that
| needs something portable to hop between desks or on the
| train, but usually have access to a power socket (yay,
| Dutch/German trains), a few hours of battery is enough
| and you might prefer to get an insane amount of
| memory/storage, a built-in cellular modem, and an
| ethernet port instead.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Most people don't really need more than 2 hours of
| battery life anyway[1] as their laptops barely ever leave
| the house. >8H of battery is nice to have but it is
| really an important parameter for a specific population
| while for others it is just convenience. I wouldn't trade
| an OS/desktop I don't like over my linux setup just
| because it last longer when I never need more than a
| couple of hours on battery[3].
|
| [1] which means you need a 4 to 6h range when new if you
| don't plan to replace the battery too often
|
| [2] students, construction companies, people who are
| always on the road...
| scarface_74 wrote:
| Is that where we are going? Most people don't need a
| laptop that has more than 2 hours battery life?
|
| When I was in the office full time in the bad old days,
| you would be in a conference room and every one would
| plug their laptops in.
|
| After I started working remotely and still doing business
| trips, one charge could last a full day either going back
| and forth between conference rooms, in "war rooms" etc
| and no one with M series MacBooks even worried about
| charging.
|
| Heck my MacBook Pro (work laptop) can last a full day on
| power with my portable USB C powered external monitor
| where the power and video come from one cord.
|
| Not to mention on flights with layovers.
| prmoustache wrote:
| You are exactly one of those few that I mentionned as
| exceptions. Fine.
| icedchai wrote:
| I spent almost 10 hours at a coworking space and didn't
| even worry about charging my M4 MacBook Pro. Apple
| Silicon is a game changer: incredible performance and
| long battery life, generally totally silent, no thermal
| throttling. 10 hours may be extreme, but it's nice to be
| able to go to a coffee shop and not worry about not
| having charged your laptop since last week.
|
| I used to run Linux on a laptop (10+ years ago) and you
| couldn't even close the laptop lid without risking it not
| going to sleep and overheating in your bag.
| prmoustache wrote:
| It is exactly what I am saying, it is nice, a
| convenience. But that's it.
|
| I don't worry about closing my thinkpad lid. Well I do
| because I disable sleep on lid close and prefer using the
| dedicated button for that. But my thinkpad goes to sleep
| when I ask it to.
| danieldk wrote:
| _What Linux computer can you buy with the battery life,
| quietness, lack of heat and speed of a modern ARM based
| Mac?_
|
| Battery life, probably none. For the rest it's pretty ok
| now - I recently got a ThinkPad T14. Performance-wise
| it's in M1/M2 territory and yes the fans can spin up, but
| they are not very loud.
|
| I have used MacBooks since 2007, but I have started using
| the ThinkPad more and more. Why?
|
| I put in 64GiB RAM and a 2TB SSD and it cost me almost
| nothing. The laptop plus these expansions was 1400 or
| 1500 Euro, a MacBook with 64GiB RAM and 2TB SSD would
| cost me 5000 Euro. When the battery has had its time, I
| can replace it by removing a few screws. I added a PCI
| cellular modem. The expandability and maintanability is
| just great.
|
| Even though the GPU in my MacBook Pro (M3 Pro) blows away
| the ThinkPad's GPU on paper, the ThinkPad with Wayland
| actually renders everything super-smoothly on my 120Hz 4K
| screen, while on the MacBook the difference between 60Hz
| and 120Hz is barely noticeable. On the ThinkPad I can run
| NixOS, which is generally _much_ nicer than macOS.
|
| The primary thing that my MacBook has over my ThinkPad
| are battery life and a bunch of really good Mac
| applications like the Affinity Suite. But since more and
| more applications are switching to Electron, it has
| become less of a problem. Heck, I even have 1Password
| with fingerprint unlock, etc. like if it was a MacBook.
|
| _As far as phones - your alternative is to buy an
| Android phone with an operating system by an ad company
| that is also pushing AI just as hard._
|
| Or I don't know, you buy a Pixel, install GrapheneOS, and
| you have better privacy than on an iPhone? And no F1
| movie ads too.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| And no mainstream apps...
| danieldk wrote:
| Well... 1Password, Da Vinci Resolve, Cursor, Zoom,
| Dropbox, Bitwig, Master PDF, Mathematica, Spotify, Steam,
| etc. The times are changing.
| silon42 wrote:
| I'd sacrifice some battery life to have a Thinkpad
| (example: T14 gen 5), with the superior keyboard, Touch
| point and smaller touchpad (the Mac one is annoyingly too
| large).
| ndiddy wrote:
| I have an Asus Vivobook S14 laptop with an Intel Core
| Ultra 258v processor. In Linux, it gets 12-15 hours of
| real usage (i.e. not manufacturer "playing videos off
| local storage with wifi off and the screen all the way
| down" battery life numbers). If I'm doing something like
| web browsing or streaming videos, the laptop doesn't get
| hot and the fan doesn't turn on. I've only had the fan
| turn on when I'm doing something intensive like compiling
| GCC or video encoding. It feels just as fast as my ARM
| Macbook Air.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| So you're making voip calls on your thinkpad?
|
| That's cool, but you represent a tiny slice of the market
| that as devices get more powerful, isn't addressable in the
| low volumes needed to make you happy.
|
| When the chips needed to make a phone are priced like toys,
| maybe you'll find the product for you.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| The opinion I got from Louis's content is that in a sense he
| is right, but also almost every brand is even worse. Apple
| does pretty much nothing to help 3rd party repair and
| sometimes actively impeeds it, but most other tech products
| do that while also not even having 1st party repair options.
|
| I remember when Samsung had removable batteries, I went in to
| a Samsung store to buy a replacement for my S5 battery and
| they told me they didn't sell them, only new phones.
| Meanwhile I can take my iPhone in to any Apple store and they
| will replace the battery for me.
|
| So yeah Apple does need to be forced to massively improve
| their practices but so does pretty much the entire tech
| industry aside from a few small projects that focus on being
| repairable.
| uniq7 wrote:
| How can KPIs from Google/Apple/Meta/X have any impact on the
| products third-party Android phone manufacturers decide to
| sell?
| pclowes wrote:
| I think most major players have the same incentives and minor
| players don't have the economies of scale to make it work
| economically.
|
| Also the longer I used my iphone mini and the rest of the
| world moved to comically large phones the more it became
| apparent that nobody is thinking about small screen form
| factors in design and when they do its only around ad
| placement.
| bondarchuk wrote:
| But, for example, what is the money flow from
| google/advertising in general to Motorola, that makes them
| not want to release a small screen model in their lineup of
| cheap phones?
| TheDong wrote:
| Instagram, Tiktok, and Google have gotten users addicted
| to consuming content, and larger screens help with that.
|
| We are helplessly addicted to digital cocaine, and so we
| demand large phones, and so motorola will not make money
| selling a small phone.
|
| It's like the parent said: our addiction is the product,
| and so just like a chain-smoker will say "I want to quit"
| as they buy 5 packs a day, a modern smartphone user will
| say "I want a smaller screen and to look at ads less" as
| they hopelessly buy a 10 inch phablet and can't go 5
| minutes without pulling it from their pocket to check
| tiktok.
|
| It is not that the money from advertising flows, it is
| that the addicted users have already been ruined, and
| will not buy the devices they say they want.
| bondarchuk wrote:
| Sure, but that's something totally different. Basically
| just "customers don't want it and won't buy it". I
| understood the root comment to imply some kind of more
| direct incentive: "A smaller screen probably negatively
| impacts KPIs on many levels" - if advertising KPIs are
| supposed to be given precedence over demand from
| consumers there has to be at least some kind of mechanism
| for it.
|
| "No major player wants a smaller screen because it has
| downstream impacts on the pipeline of addictive material
| and ad pixels they can stuff into ocular nerves." -- what
| is the direct (or indirect) pressure that the major
| players can exert over some more or less independent hw
| manufacturer like Motorola? I'm not saying it's
| impossible, it reminds me of e.g. the situation where
| (pre iphone) carriers blocked phones from having wifi
| because they wanted them to be dependent on their
| network, but if something like this is happening it
| should be possible to roughly point out how.
| Teever wrote:
| Funny you should mention this because disposable smartphone
| vapes are now being sold:
|
| https://www.vapezilla.com/collections/smart-vape-phone
| pclowes wrote:
| Amazing. If someone had pitched this concept to the producers
| of "Idiocracy" they would have rejected it as too far fetched
| and ludicrous.
| khurs wrote:
| >No major player wants a smaller screen because it has
| downstream impacts on the pipeline of addictive material and ad
| pixels they can stuff into ocular nerves.
|
| There are lots of phone manufacturers who have no ads business.
| They just make phones so why would they care?
|
| Size is dictated by trouser pocket size/handbag size and usage.
| Editing photos and movies to upload onto social media is
| probably better on a big screen.
|
| Also screen size is dictated by common panel sizes, as low
| volume will mean a higher price.
|
| Folding screens and iPad Mini's existence suggests people want
| larger screen real estate.
| rtpg wrote:
| I think photos are a big deal, but IMO it's more about the
| photo quality. And if you put a nice fancy camera on the
| phone, suddenly the device gets pretty expensive.
|
| And so while there are people who want "small screen + nice
| camera". There are people who want "small screen + small
| price". There are many people who _don't want the small
| screen_. So you have this phone that can cost a lot of money
| (in a pretty messy market where most phone models seem to not
| make money anyways), and you're going to cut off chunks of
| the market?
|
| So we end up with small screen + shitty camera and specs etc.
| And people here who want a small phone (but really want a
| small phone that isn't miserable to use) still are
| unsatisfied.
| manwe150 wrote:
| I have an iPhone mini, and my understanding is that I lose
| quite a bit of battery life also by not having the full
| sized version. The market definitely prefers long runtimes,
| free from frequent charging, while I need to carry a charge
| pack sometimes, although just when I expect it to be
| needed.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > There are lots of phone manufacturers who have no ads
| business. They just make phones so why would they care?
|
| There are still bound to the screen resolution dictated by
| the platforms/environment. A maker selling an android phone
| with a 480x640px screen would face a huge uphill battle to
| see any sales.
|
| Going for a smaller physical screen means higher DPI, so
| higher production costs and quality control issues. It can
| make more sense to buy cheaper, low DPI screen and make the
| whole device bigger to match the needed pixel count.
| const_cast wrote:
| > There are lots of phone manufacturers who have no ads
| business.
|
| I mean... none of the big ones.
|
| For the others, they DO make small phones, and even non-
| addictive phones. We have e-ink phones in pure black and
| white.
| _carbyau_ wrote:
| The issue is "bigger numbers" marketing. The story for much of
| smartphone history was the flagship had a bigger screen.
|
| But then it hit the practicable limits of what people can
| pocket/hold-comfortably.
|
| If you make a phone with a smaller screen but want to call it
| "flagship" then you'd better have some good marketing to
| reverse the perception.
| w-ll wrote:
| I think the other thing is pretty much everyone has a
| smartphone android/ios, and so the rev model has changed for
| android its youtube/movies, and for ios its apple tv.
| p0w3n3d wrote:
| Please note that Samsung flagship S24 is smaller than non-
| flagship A55 (the same release year)
| javier2 wrote:
| > I only traded out my iphone 12 mini just recently for an
| iphone 16 pro (likely the last apple product I will ever buy
| but thats another story) and aside from the camera it is
| basically the same. Just heavier, awkward to hold and slightly
| worse designed.
|
| Just did the exact same thing 5 months ago.. I still miss my 12
| mini. Would strongly consider buying a 13 mini instead of its
| even being sold anymore.
| grapesodaaaaa wrote:
| I wish they had made a pro mini. The only reason I got rid of
| mine was for the zoom of the pro.
| javier2 wrote:
| The main reason I traded was that work pays for a new phone
| and the battery was so bad I had to charge my 4 year old 12
| mini twice a day.
| abruzzi wrote:
| i have a 13 mini. Its beat up, battery life is getting worse
| (even though I rarely use it) and both cameras are smashed
| (in my pocket during a motorcycle accident), but I look at
| all the options now and figure I'll just keep using this one.
| I'd rather be using an iPhone 4, but I need some stuff that
| that one didn't have to work with a glucose monitor.
| devjab wrote:
| I ended up replacing my 12 mini with a 6z flip from samsung.
| The only real annoyance is that Apple hasn't enabled RCS for
| Danish telecom companies yet. Well that and sand... We'll see
| how long it lives though. The reason I originally went to
| apple was because my first smartphone (a galaxy 2) sort of
| did the planned obsolescence thing exactly the same way my
| two buddies galaxy 2's did at the time. If the flip lives for
| 5ish years then I'll likely never go back to apple. Unless
| they make a phone that will actually fit comfortable in my
| pockets again.
|
| The little half screen on the flip is useless though.
| Basically nothing works on it.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| That makes no sense. The only phone companies that make money
| from how often you use your phone and buy apps on it are Apple
| and Google. If there were a market for it other companies would
| make them.
|
| As far as the mini phones - because physics - the battery life
| is atrocious. That was one of the main drivers for me to get a
| larger phone. Well that and because I can pull down the Control
| Center and use the widget to make everything on my phone larger
| and still be able to use it without wearing my glasses. With my
| glasses, I keep everything the smallest size
| sjw987 wrote:
| But Apple and Google (Pixel) are a huge portion of the
| market..
|
| The other manufacturers are forced to go along with the
| market leaders, but sometimes also side-load apps for post-
| device-sale revenue.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| The pixel is not a "huge portion of the market". It's 4% of
| the market in the US
| (https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insight/post-insight-
| us...) and a nothingburger outside of it.
|
| Globally, Apple has what 20% market share? And besides
| Qualcomm chips, Apple has a complete separate parts supply
| chain than Android.
|
| Besides, Samsung could definitely create its own small
| phone and would if there were a market.
| sjw987 wrote:
| Sorry, in my national market. Apple has 51%, Samsung has
| around 28% and Google 5%. These 3 hold almost 85% of the
| UK market.
|
| Samsung, from what I remember used to side-load tons of
| apps (some alongside identical stock Android apps), so
| it's in their best interest to maximise screen time
| through media apps, which generally work best on a bigger
| screen.
|
| It's against all of these companies interests to sell you
| a phone which you quickly use and put away. They all have
| every incentive to keep you staring, because they're all
| getting extra money from every ad you see in a game, TV
| show, movie, web browsing, or wherever else they can slot
| it.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| The UK is less than 1% of the world market. Not exactly
| representative of the rest of the world...
| strken wrote:
| I used to buy ZenFones, but they're huge now. It feels like
| there's some combination of poor sales and parts commonality
| that causes the problem, not a shadowy conspiracy, since I
| don't think ASUS and other manufacturers have a significant way
| to benefit from phone addiction.
| Marazan wrote:
| I have the last non-huge ZenFone.
|
| The new ZenFones are just rebadged ROGs which explains the
| massive size jump. I'm not looking forward to replacing this
| phone when it ages out.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I don't think that's cynical- it's obvious that larger screens
| allow more phone usage and more ads on the larger screen.
| NoPicklez wrote:
| It's still a cynical point of view nonetheless
| nine_k wrote:
| I see it differently. Modern web - the browser - powerful
| CPU/GPU - big battery - big device - why not cover it with a
| big screen.
| roxolotl wrote:
| Couldn't we make it thicker though? The rumored iPhone air is
| the exact opposite of what I want. Give me a thicker phone
| with a smaller screen and I'd pay Pro prices for it.
| walterbell wrote:
| Air is intermediate to Fold (2X Air thickness) with 5.5"
| screen and $2K+ price,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44587911
| roxolotl wrote:
| Yea I might have to get a fold. I really don't want a
| damn crease in my screen though. I'd almost prefer a
| Nintendo DS style.
| bn-l wrote:
| Think of the nds emulation though!
| XorNot wrote:
| Thicker things don't fit in pockets as well, they're
| unwieldy.
|
| I've gotten my EDC down to 1 leather ID sleeve with my
| credit card and drivers license in it, and my phone. This
| is probably still thicker then it should be, but it's soft
| so I don't feel the bulk or edges.
| brightbeige wrote:
| That's how I see it. Screen size is area (x^2) and battery
| size is volume (x^3). As battery life is a critical feature,
| a bigger screen fits better battery life.
| jittery41 wrote:
| This is it, for a while battery life got worse for a while
| with more powerful chips. But then Samsung goes full in on
| the big size 6"+ phone and it got better again.
|
| Now even at 80% original capacity, a Samsung can still last
| me throughout the day given that I am not watching videos
| constantly. The Iphone 6 back in the day would go to 40% in 3
| hours, then suddenly to 5% in minutes.
|
| Plus most people replace their laptop with a phone now. So
| the big screen size is a must.
| paulcole wrote:
| > However, it does seem like there is a profitable business for
| someone there given how beloved it was/is.
|
| Normal people didn't love small phones. They loved their small
| iPhones.
|
| When it comes down to it they will not love the Pine Phone
| Mini.
|
| For the vast majority of people, the key feature is that it's
| an iPhone not that it's small.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| You're way too cynical and have let your cynicism cloud
| history.
|
| The first phablets were probably the Galaxy Note line starting
| in 2011 which was met with some skepticism due to the size of
| them. These were well before the edge to edge screen days. So
| you had 5.7 inch screens with a bezel.
|
| They were huge but I would routinely see small women pull these
| things out of their hand bags and press a device that obscured
| almost their whole face and start chatting.
|
| Things steadily got bigger from there. The general population
| WANTED this.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Parent's take is not whether bigger phones shouldn't exist,
| it's why smaller phones stopped being produced, which is a
| fairly different angle.
|
| > women
|
| To note, the initial smartphones were already too big for he
| taste of many: a clamshell feature phone was almost a third
| of the size of the original iPhone. From that POV, going to a
| phone that is twice as big is less of a barrier, as they had
| to keep it in a bag/purse in the first place.
|
| The return of foldables is also pretty well received in that
| regard.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Just tonight, I saw a friend of mine, pull a new foldable
| Razr from her purse.
|
| They are cool phones, but I do iOS. I still use a 13 Mini,
| and will continue to do so, for quite some time.
|
| As to the point of this article, I seem to recall a couple
| of _very_ small Android phones, some years ago (about
| credit-card sized). I guess they didn't sell well.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > very small Android phones
|
| IMHO this is just not viable in the current world.
|
| I agree with line the article sets (5"4 for 1080p, almost
| the size of the Pixel 4a), as mainstream apps will
| properly work at that size. I still have a working 4a,
| and some banking apps are getting pretty cramped for
| instance. And many websites already need furious panning
| and zooming.
|
| A credit card size phone would only work for people who
| basically hate their phones I think.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I agree. I think the article about them was on Ars
| Technica, but I don't really feel like looking for it.
|
| They seemed underwhelmed at the phones.
|
| _[EDITED TO ADD]_
|
| Found 'em: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10/palm-
| rises-from-the-...
|
| Also, these:
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-
| com...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| And this was their review of it:
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/palm-phone-
| review-fu...
| happymellon wrote:
| > banking apps are getting pretty cramped
|
| Completely agree. Although not even on "small phones", my
| S23 isn't small but the design of these apps has
| regressed so much that I barely see any useful
| information.
|
| On my old WAP phone I could see bank balance and maybe
| the last transaction or two. Now half the screens taken
| up with upselling account levels, invest in shares, buy
| crypto, you've been pre-approved!
| zo1 wrote:
| It's the padding! And the UX teams that add them into the
| designs!
|
| My cynical take is that an unholy pact was formed between
| FE devs and UX designers:
|
| By adding in "design" and "user experience" you
| essentially reduce features, complexity and general "dev
| time" of every single user-screen or page or component.
| They're no longer cram-packed with oodles of features,
| toggles, buttons, menus, etc. Most pages are glorified
| lists of things, with maybe a menu on each item if you
| are lucky. Devs dev less, have less bugs, just use FE-
| library of the day and go home happy because they made a
| CRUD screen essentially.
|
| Meanwhile, UX designers get to play around and constantly
| fiddle with design because let's all be honest, _nothing_
| will ever be truly good and in a perfect "user
| experience" space because complexity and functionality
| are _never_ what the user is happy about having, until
| they need it.
| ghaff wrote:
| >A credit card size phone would only work for people who
| basically hate their phones I think.
|
| Probably. It's people who know they _have_ to own a
| smartphone for so many things like park their car but don
| 't really want one.
|
| This was a number of years back but I know a then tech
| executive who got a phone (I think it may have been a
| feature phone at the time) only because their nanny
| absolutely insisted.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| I do wish Apple would make one. The Samsung Z Flip almost
| follows the Apple design language, if only it ran iOS.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| Are the screens reliable now?
| dontlaugh wrote:
| I wouldn't know.
|
| I assume they must be reliable by know, they've been
| making foldable screens for years.
| jlokier wrote:
| I don't think so. Yesterday I was browsing phones and
| there was a Google Pixel 9 Fold on dislpay, closed and
| showing something. That has a display on the outside and
| a foldable display on the inside.
|
| I opened it, and most of the screen looked like a big,
| roundish black blob of ink, centred on the fold, on top
| of the Android animations working perfectly underneath,
| but only visible at the edges. I was impressed that the
| rest of the screen around worked perfectly, but it was
| unusuable due to the size of the black blob.
|
| Something had broken at or near the fold while it was on
| display.
|
| All other devices were in great condition; it was a well-
| maintained store.
| wyre wrote:
| The general population wants larger phones because they are
| addicted to their screens.
| jittery41 wrote:
| For most people the phone is their only computer. Who bring
| laptop to a friend group hangout anymore ? Only the
| techies.
| jchw wrote:
| Well, do you think this is a good state of affairs? On
| one hand, phones are pretty accessible devices, on the
| other hand there are many aspects of phones that are
| objectively pretty terrible for consumers (talking about
| cost and difficulty of repair, walled garden ecosystems,
| and generally being geared towards consuming things and a
| lot less effective at producing them than laptops and
| desktops.)
|
| (Tangential: of course I don't blame anyone for bringing
| their phone with them everywhere but if you're going to
| go to a friend group hangout, consider how annoying it is
| when you're trying to talk to someone and they're clearly
| checked out browsing some slop on Twitter or talking to
| someone else entirely. Take a damn break from the phone!)
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Who ever brought a laptop to a friend group hangout? I
| never have seen that happen myself.
| taraindara wrote:
| Depends on you and your friends. My group does this
| regularly.
| volemo wrote:
| I'm not sure if your comment is sarcastic, but in case it
| isn't: my friend group had a get-together two days ago,
| three out of six had a laptop with them, and it even came
| in handy when I started talking about the problem I'm
| working on, somebody got interested and I was able to
| show the plots and calculations. Also we have PowerPoint
| Parties somewhat regularly, where most of us bring their
| computers to make last minute changes or simply have a
| known environment.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Not sarcastic at all. I have never seen people (not even
| my nerdy friends, least of all normies) bring laptops to
| a friend hangout. People might bring laptops if they were
| getting together to work on stuff, but then that isn't
| just hanging out any more, there's a purpose to the
| gathering. I would be _astonished_ if someone could show
| that non-techy people ever brought laptops when they
| would hang out. Techy people (like your friend group),
| maybe. But not your average person.
| ghaff wrote:
| When I was still working full-time, a co-worker told me
| their kid had told them they didn't need or want a
| computer. Probably changes at some point with long
| writing assignments, etc. but still.
|
| I do increasingly think about whether I need to bring a
| laptop on various trips. It can be handy but I try to
| pack light and another few pounds is a lot for me. I've
| experimented with a newish tablet but it's a bit too in-
| between for my taste.
| Ezhik wrote:
| I remember people would always be surprised about how
| home computer ownership was not that high but smartphones
| (well, Japanese "garakei") were were ubiquitous.
|
| I guess Japan was ahead of the curve once again.
| ghaff wrote:
| Mini-computer sizes were pretty popular in Japan for a
| period even though they never really took off in the US--
| and pretty much died off entirely.
| nunez wrote:
| Yes, and people are using their phones for what they
| previously used TVs, laptops, music players and other
| dedicated devices for. It's a bit of a cycle.
|
| There's also the accessibility factor. Many people become
| farsighted later in life. It's much easier to see things on
| a big phone, especially with increased zoom. (I see this
| all of the time when I fly.)
| theshackleford wrote:
| > There's also the accessibility factor. Many people
| become farsighted later in life. It's much easier to see
| things on a big phone, especially with increased zoom. (I
| see this all of the time when I fly.)
|
| Or for those of us with higher end myopia whose lenses
| effectively "shrink" everything they see. I'm -6.75 in
| each eye and my glasses make my everything seem
| significantly smaller than it is.
|
| Sometimes I look at my phone or monitor without my
| glasses and am momentarily shocked at how large they seem
| and then saddened when I put them back on.
| al_borland wrote:
| Apple did a horrible job marketing the mini. I ran into a
| lot of people who saw my 12 mini and said they would prefer
| that size, but didn't know it existed.
|
| When I went to buy it, and the case, the employees at the
| Apple Store questioned me and tried to push me toward the
| normal iPhone. This is the first and only time I've ever
| felt Apple Store employees steering purchasing decisions. I
| had to go in there knowing what I wanted, and had to assert
| that it was what I wanted repeatedly.
|
| Are people buying big phones because they are addicted to
| their screens, or are people addicted to their screens
| because of big phones?
| danieldk wrote:
| _When I went to buy it, and the case, the employees at
| the Apple Store questioned me and tried to push me toward
| the normal iPhone._
|
| Probably because they knew that customers would come back
| to complain about the abysmal battery life of the Mini? I
| had a 12 Mini, I loved that phone, but man was it hard to
| get through the day on a single charge.
| ginko wrote:
| I generally only charge my 13 mini every other day or so.
|
| The only time I recently struggled getting through the
| day was when on vacation and constantly using google maps
| & translate. But that is with a 3 year old phone.
| gargan wrote:
| May I ask what your approximate screen on time is each
| day? You must be less addicted than the general
| population where its 4-6 hours a day
| ginko wrote:
| Hm, looks like ios won't show screen time unless
| reporting is enabled which I haven't done.
| urxvtcd wrote:
| 13 mini here, also not charging every day. My screen time
| is around 2 hours a day, which IMO is still to much. I
| try to keep battery between 20 and 80 percent.
| MrDOS wrote:
| Worth noting that (so I've heard) the most impactful
| hardware change between the 12 mini and the 13 mini was
| improvements to the battery life. I've never struggled
| with the battery life on my 13 mini, either, but the
| handful of people I know with a 12 mini have always
| bemoaned it.
| hdgvhicv wrote:
| My 12 mini is nearly 5 years old and still lasts the day
| unless I'm watching a movie etc on a train for a few
| hours or something.
| al_borland wrote:
| I don't think any iPhone mini buyer would have been upset
| if the phone was a little thicker to accommodate a larger
| battery.
| layer8 wrote:
| The problem is the weight it would add, more than the
| thickness.
| spaceisballer wrote:
| I just want a decently large screen because I have old
| eyes. A 6.1" phone works fine for me.
| knubie wrote:
| The other problem is that more and more content now is
| designed for (or only tolerable on) larger phone screens.
| Go to any website these days on a smaller phone like an
| iPhone mini and more than 50% (being charitable here) of
| the screen will be taken up by garbage like ads, cookie
| banners, popups, etc.
|
| It's a vicious cycle. Phone manufactures make the screen
| bigger, app and website developers realize they can cram
| more junk on the page, consumers demand larger screens as a
| result, return to step 1.
| agosta wrote:
| Ya'll see adds? I use Brave Browser on all my devices and
| haven't seen traditional ads in years. Even Youtube ads
| are blocked on Brave by default
| pclowes wrote:
| Apple is putting ads as pop ups inside the wallet app
| now... every social media app is crammed with them too.
| Browser is the easy fix.
| knubie wrote:
| Most people just use whatever the default browser is on
| their phone.
| philistine wrote:
| This is HN. OP is 100% right to be flabbergasted that
| people on this site are not using the best and brightest
| of the ad blockers available. I know I am.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Ironically, I have the opposite problem with website
| design. So many sites are clearly designed for mobile
| screen sizes, with a teensy-tiny strip of text on my
| large monitor. It's very unpleasant to read lines of text
| that short, so on a lot of sites I have to go into dev
| tools and set the text width to 1200px to make it an
| actual comfortable reading experience. I should _not_
| have to mess with CSS to make websites readable, but here
| we are.
| Nursie wrote:
| I want larger phones because I am at that particular stage
| of middle age where I should probably start using reading
| glasses, but I'm also damned if I'm going to start carrying
| reading glasses everywhere with me.
|
| Larger screen = easier life.
| ako wrote:
| I'm even older, walking around with reading glasses on my
| head all day. Had an iPhone 13 mini, miss the form
| factor, would prefer a mini as my next phone. But for
| most mobile use, on the couch, watching videos, etc, I
| use an iPad, not my phone. For me a large phone is mostly
| a tablet that's too small.
| Nursie wrote:
| Yeah fair enough. At the moment the pro max is a sweet
| spot for me, but we'll see over time.
| t0bia_s wrote:
| Advertisers supports bigger screen for bigger space for
| their ads.
| sayamqazi wrote:
| I want larger monitors, laptops, tablets and phones because
| I can't f**ing see well. Book reading is a real strain on
| small screens.
| swat535 wrote:
| > The general population wants larger phones because they
| are addicted to their screens.
|
| I would rephrase that to: The general population wants a
| larger phones because phones are defacto PCs these days.
| They can watch movies, browser the news, listen to music,
| FaceTime, Maps, ..
|
| Outside of business applications likes Word / Excel, phones
| basically handles 90% of people's requirements for
| "computers".
| zanecodes wrote:
| The Dell Streak (shoutout to the other 3 people who bought
| one) had a 5 inch screen in 2010, a notable jump from
| contemporary phones like the iPhone 4 which was still 3.5",
| and other Android devices like the HTC Droid series which
| were around 3.7" and slowly starting to creep upwards to
| differentiate themselves from the iPhone. I think the largest
| Android devices you could get at the time were still smaller
| than 4".
| al_borland wrote:
| I remember Dell showing this off at the All Thing D
| conference and Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal
| asked the Dell spokesperson to put it up to his head, and
| told him it looked like a waffle. To this days it's all I
| think of when I see someone holding a massive phone up to
| the side of their head.
|
| That thing could really stand out in a crowd. I was at a
| baseball stadium for a concert that year, and spotted
| someone with a Dell Streak as I was heading down to the
| field. In a sea of people that was the one phone I spotted.
| I stopped to ask the guy about it briefly.
| overfeed wrote:
| I remember Steve Jobs berating phablets as "the Hummer of
| phones" _and_ dissing 7-inch Android tablets as too
| small, and disparagingly saying users would need to
| "file down their fingers" to use them - without
| considering how much smaller Apple users' fingers would
| need to be to use 3.5-inch iPhones.
|
| I also remember the viral, doctored image showing the
| reachability of phone screens which "proved" that 3.5
| inches was the "ideal" phone size.
| thekevan wrote:
| The Samsung Galaxy Note (the first one) had a screen size of
| 5.3 inches.
|
| The Samsung Galaxy Note 2 had a screen size of 5.5 inches. I
| had one and regularly had strangers ask me if that was really
| a phone. I had friends say, "Give me a call on your tablet"
| as a joke.
|
| I loved it. Now my 6.1 inch iPhone feels on the small side.
| _trampeltier wrote:
| This. I'm also had several Note's. I even would like now
| also to have a bigger phone again. But it seems nobody does
| 8" or 9" phones.
| prmoustache wrote:
| > But it seems nobody does 8" or 9" phones.
|
| They are called tablets, some come with a sim slot so
| they are essentially the same.
| darkwater wrote:
| Yeah and I also remember how Apple fans said "this is
| ridiculous, nobody needs a screen that big that doesn't fit
| in your pocket easily", and here we are 15 years later
| mourning the iPhone Mini/SE.
| pyman wrote:
| 10 years ago, if your phone was bigger than 5 inches, it
| looked ridiculous. You'd pull it out and people would look
| at you like you'd just escaped from a nut house
| ghaff wrote:
| The Pro (non-Max) feels like my sweet spot. Fits in most
| pockets pretty easily but Max is just too big for me.
| jml78 wrote:
| I am 6ft tall and feel like my hands are above average in
| size. I have a regular iPhone 16 pro. I still don't
| understand how people use bigger devices.
|
| Do they like using two hands? I can't single hand a phone
| any larger without having to shift it in my hand.
|
| I don't want to use two hands on my phone outside of
| typing.
| fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
| People type a lot though. It's also better for video,
| games, reading, general browsing. If you value one handed
| operation above all that though, then obviously smaller
| is better.
| Marazan wrote:
| It's amusing how people try an memory hole their negative
| reaction and pieces written about the Note. People's mocking
| web pages have disappeared. Arguments based on the size of
| the human hand completely forgotten. The very notion that a
| 5.7 inch screen is big an unwieldly is now met with disdain.
| Nursie wrote:
| When I first saw the ad on tv, my reaction was "Holy moley,
| wow, who's going to buy that monstrosity?"
|
| And then a few weeks later I bought one. All the guys in my
| office laughed and said "Wow, look at that huge thing, it's
| ridiculous". I chuckled and agreed, though I was quietly
| enjoying the larger screen.
|
| And now everyone's using them.
| stavros wrote:
| I just refuse to accept that the first phablet I ever saw,
| the Galaxy Note, which covered the person's face and looked
| absolutely comical in their hands, was smaller than my
| current, very regular-sized phone.
| sockbot wrote:
| That's because it's not smaller, it has a larger front face
| area and volume.
| stavros wrote:
| It doesn't, my phone is a full cm longer.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| How big is your phone? If it want for edge to edge screens,
| I'd have stuck with my iPhone SE longer.
| stavros wrote:
| It's a Nothing 2, fairly typical in size. I think the Pro
| Max is larger.
| gsich wrote:
| >Things steadily got bigger from there. The general
| population WANTED this.
|
| Easy to say if the only devices are big phones. There is no
| choice.
| okanat wrote:
| Smaller phones has always been limited in performance, batter
| life, the app support and the camera quality. Camera is the
| most important factor and battery is the second.
|
| General population doesn't buy phones every year and they
| don't want a nerfed phone when they have to pay 500-1000
| $/EURs. So they gravitate towards higher end ones.
|
| Companies including Apple has always treated the small size
| as an entry to mid segment phone. The only exception I know
| is Sony z3 and z5 compact which suffered heat and battery
| swelling issues due to Qualcomm messing 810 series SoCs up.
|
| Companies also want you to buy the most expensive phone. So
| they market the premium models and train their store
| personnel to sell more of the premium line. If they stop
| intentionally nerfing the smaller phones, I think there is a
| market there. However, it will still be smaller.
| ChrisRR wrote:
| At least the smaller battery is offset by the smaller
| screen
| MengerSponge wrote:
| It helps, but less than you'd think. The main board's
| power doesn't dramatically change, and because the full
| space under the screen isn't battery, reducing the screen
| size by 40% might cause the battery size to be reduced by
| 60%
| ghaff wrote:
| I used to lug a dedicated camera around all the time.
| Except for special purposes I just bring a phone these
| days. And I'm not the only one. I do know people who do a
| lot of nature photography but I also know people who always
| had a camera with them who now reserve them for "serious"
| portraiture and things like that.
| protocolture wrote:
| Phones had smaller screens when you needed the keypad to
| interact with the largest number of features.
|
| Phone screen sizes grew as the applications that could use
| screen space grew in demand.
|
| People are watching 1080p films on the train now. The people
| who want smaller screens are usually willing to deal with a
| larger one. People who want larger screens usually cant operate
| their use cases on a smaller screen. Larger screens also tend
| to mask larger case meaning less miniaturisation required for
| the components.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| None of this explains why it's just impossible to get small
| phones.
|
| You have people who want them unusably large and people who
| want them to fit in your hand. The solution in every other
| market is that products are manufactured to fit both sets of
| needs. You don't see pants coming in one size with the advice
| "wear a belt".
|
| What's going on?
| dalmo3 wrote:
| I agree with the sentiment, but pants is a very funny
| example.
|
| Every manufacturer seems to think people are either tall
| and fat or short and slim. I'm tall and my only alternative
| is literally to wear a belt.
| protocolture wrote:
| >You don't see pants coming in one size with the advice
| "wear a belt".
|
| Great example. Because people who are shorter than average
| tend to have to get pants taken up, and people who are
| vastly taller than average tend to go to specialty stores.
|
| The average height of pants is largely dictated by what the
| market will permit, requiring people to make adjustments or
| leave the market. Having a 2d matrix of height and width
| defined pant sizes is too complex for the market to bother
| with.
|
| Technology is worse, anything that requires tooling is done
| the least number of times possible. While small phone
| enjoyers are disadvantaged, they arent disadvantaged enough
| to force them out of the market. Larger tooling is easier
| to make and caters to all other preferences.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > Technology is worse, anything that requires tooling is
| done the least number of times possible. While small
| phone enjoyers are disadvantaged, they arent
| disadvantaged enough to force them out of the market.
| Larger tooling is easier to make and caters to all other
| preferences.
|
| No, you're making up a claim that you know perfectly well
| is false. Just blank most of your day out of your mind,
| and then... what? Why?
|
| You don't like pants? Televisions come in dozens of
| different sizes. Laptops come in dozens of different
| sizes. Are phones different in some way?
| Daz1 wrote:
| Phones come in dozens of different sizes too, what are
| you on about? TVs come in a greater range of sizes
| because they're designed for different viewing distances
| and room configurations. Phones don't have this variable,
| you hold them in your hand.
| protocolture wrote:
| >No, you're making up a claim that you know perfectly
| well is false. Just blank most of your day out of your
| mind, and then... what? Why?
|
| I cant even parse this? What am I blanking?
|
| >You don't like pants? Televisions come in dozens of
| different sizes. Laptops come in dozens of different
| sizes. Are phones different in some way?
|
| Where did I claim not to like pants?
|
| Laptops come in tons of different sizes. So do phones.
|
| They tried sub 10 inch laptops, in the form of netbooks,
| the form factor barely exists anymore outside of
| hobbyists. Netbook enthusiasts either have to exit the
| market, or go for something 10 inch or higher. Because
| its not worth the tooling to deal with a niche market.
| Nursie wrote:
| > What's going on?
|
| You're in a minority, it's not profitable to cater to you,
| and most people don't care.
|
| That's the cold hard truth of it.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| You seem to have ignored the part of my comment pointing
| out that the dynamic you describe doesn't occur in any
| other market.
|
| Perhaps... just perhaps... the explanation lies
| elsewhere?
|
| I should have included some kind of question as to what
| it might be.
| Nursie wrote:
| I don't think it's meaningful. There are not enough
| people who would buy such a device to make it profitable
| to design and manufacture. Your priors -
|
| "You have ... people who want them to fit in your hand"
|
| Are incorrect. The number of people who will actually buy
| small devices is ... small. The number of people who are
| _so_ interested in small devices they 'll overlook things
| like a lower battery life and whatever other compromises
| are needed to achieve the smaller size, likely even
| fewer.
|
| It's not like it hasn't been tried in the past, people in
| this thread talk about iPhone minis disappearing - Apple
| couldn't make them a success. Sony couldn't make them a
| success either and stopped making them AFAICT. As a
| market segment you're too small to warrant the investment
| in designing a small flagship. And if nobody's investing
| in a small flagship, small midmarket isn't going to
| happen either.
|
| There do appear to be niche manufacturers in this segment
| (take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/smallphones/).
| If the untapped demand is so huge, I would expect to see
| them become much more mainstream over time.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Unless you're asserting the number of people who will
| actually buy small devices is zero (which I would hope
| you aren't given the evidence to the contrary in this
| thread), his priors are in fact correct. If there exists
| any number of people willing to buy small phones, then
| the statement "you have people who want them to fit in
| your hand" is true.
| klausa wrote:
| There are also no desktop 17" displays sold anymore, nor
| are there many 32" TVs around. Nobody makes 7" Eee PCs.
|
| Perhaps... just perhaps... people just like bigger
| screens and it's not some kind of weird conspiracy
| theory?
| conradev wrote:
| The margins are also worse, which is way, way closer to a
| manufacturer's bottom line than the software ecosystem.
|
| There is demand for larger phones, yes, but manufacturers also
| charge more for bigger devices and most of that is margin.
| Following their own logic, they also charge less for smaller
| phones.
|
| If your customers are sticky, then many of the people who buy
| the smaller phone would have otherwise bought a bigger phone
| for more money. Introducing a smaller phone brings down
| profits.
| ginko wrote:
| >manufacturers also charge more for bigger devices and most
| of that is margin.
|
| Why do they do that though? Usually more compact, high end
| devices would be more expensive than bulkier one. When has
| this trend reversed?
| nicholassmith wrote:
| Bigger equals better consumer perception, I imagine driven
| in part by the top-tier phones being larger to fit
| additional battery capacity in for the higher performance
| processors making all larger devices carry some premium
| cachet.
| dangus wrote:
| I thought that was the case but I tried going small.
|
| I owned an iPhone 13 mini. Basically the perfect small phone if
| there ever was one.
|
| The downsides are extensive and the upsides are few.
|
| - Battery life sucked. Since a phone is a 3D object making it
| bigger substantially increases battery capacity. It also makes
| packaging difficult especially if the goal is a flagship-
| quality phone. Good luck fitting in good hardware with a lot of
| features.
|
| - Eyestrain. It's small.
|
| - Typing. It sucks. The phone is small.
|
| And it turns out the upside of one-handed operation is limited.
| A simple PopSocket or OhSnap! will make large phones easy to
| use in one hand.
|
| Plus, if pocketability is your issue, you can buy a folding
| phone like a Motorola Razr and still get a nice big screen when
| you pull it out.
| phyrex wrote:
| I disagree. I'm reading and typing this from an iPhone 13
| mini. I use a big one for work so it's not like I don't know
| what I'm missing. I very strongly prefer the small form
| factor
| chupchap wrote:
| No, the bigger devices just sold more. Larger screen size is a
| major factor in deciding which phone to buy globally.
| nunez wrote:
| I thought the theory behind the 12 and 13 minis was that Apple
| had a huge surplus of parts that they needed to offload, and
| making the minis was a profitable way of doing that.
| saagarjha wrote:
| But they launched alongside the flagship devices?
| dontlaugh wrote:
| I think that's the SEs.
| al_borland wrote:
| This is the part that frustrates me. Apple keeps introducing
| software "solutions" for hardware problems. Reachability,
| Screen Time, Focus Modes, etc. A smaller phone naturally solves
| most of these problems. Small phones act as more of a utility
| device for when you're away from a proper computer. This is all
| I want my phone to be. I really think they got it right the
| first time in 2007.
|
| I ended up switching from a 13 mini (I had the 12 mini as well)
| to a 16 Pro. I was having a lot of battery life issues, and
| kept running into apps that clearly didn't fully test with the
| smaller screen. I also really missed having a telephoto lens.
|
| My phone usage went up; my laptop/desktop usage went down. I
| don't like that. Compared to a normal computer, a phone is
| still worse in almost every way, other than mobility. It's just
| now tolerable enough to put up with more of the time. I'm
| writing this on the phone, it would have been easier on a
| keyboard and mouse.
| oc1 wrote:
| The 13 mini didn't solve any of these issues for me plus the
| worse battery life. I upgraded to 16 pro max. My laptop usage
| also went down from there. Total screen time probably stayed,
| but now i carry most of the time just a phone instead of
| phone and laptop. If you want something less addictive there
| is probably the apple watch but you still need the phone to
| configure and now you're strapped to a device 24/7 just for
| the sake to be used less.
| gargan wrote:
| You could take the 13 mini to Apple and swap out the battery
| for a new one? That might solve some of the battery issues
| al_borland wrote:
| This was the internal debate I was having with myself. I
| bought the 13 mini the day the 14 was released and saw they
| were killing the mini line. The goal was to keep it until
| it was literally dead, replacing the battery as needed. The
| battery of the 13 mini was supposed to be better than the
| 12 mini, but that was not my experience.
|
| The battery also wasn't the main issue, just a contributing
| factor. I was ok using the battery as a signal for when I
| was using the phone too much and taking it as a signal to
| reevaluate my usage. Seeing software bugs related to the
| screen size, as figuring that would only get worse now that
| new phones didn't come in the smaller size... that's what
| made me think I might as well get the transition over with.
|
| I've had battery issues with the 16 Pro, but those are
| software bugs. Some days my phone will give me a low
| battery warning by noon. I end up killing all the apps,
| charging it up again, and then it's fine. It's happened
| about 4 or 5 times, but I haven't been able to tell what's
| doing it.
| sjw987 wrote:
| "Small phones act as more of a utility device for when you're
| away from a proper computer. This is all I want my phone to
| be."
|
| You, like me, are not representatives of a market phone
| manufacturers are interested in. Utilitarian and minimal use
| only sells one phone every few years.
|
| They are catering for the overwhelming market that spends
| upwards of 5 hours screen time per day, watches movies and
| TVs, plays games, and generally spends as much time as
| possible on them, with as much payment and ad revenue as that
| comes with on top of the original device sale.
|
| I always personally liked the idea of computers being fixed,
| or semi-fixed (like a laptop), as a place to work or study,
| and then leave once that is done. The replacement of
| computers and laptops by tablets and phones is a wider
| cultural shift from computers being tools and productive
| technology to entertainment and consumerist technology, in my
| opinion.
| amelius wrote:
| Maybe you can use vinyl tape to mask out the borders of
| your phone? At least you will be using it less for tasks
| that work better on a big screen.
| GarnetFloride wrote:
| What was so odd was how Apple fumbled the iPhone mini launch by
| launching the iPhone SE first. At that point there hadn't been
| a small phone for a few years, There was pent up demand. The SE
| came out and it was a big success, lots of people wanted ti
| because it was a small phone.
|
| Then few months later they launched the mini expecting it to
| sell even more or something. Somehow they missed that everyone
| that wanted a small phone had just bought the SE, and it just
| wasn't long enough for them to be worth upgrading to the much
| better mini.
|
| Had they waited for a year to pass the mini might have done
| much better because those who wanted a more powerful phone
| could find an excuse for an upgrade after a year, less then 6
| months, not so much.
| vidyesh wrote:
| Your theory makes sense until it falls apart if you consider
| SE and Mini as the same category of small iPhones. If the
| only reason why Mini failed was bad launch time, then why
| haven't Apple launched anything small (SE or Mini) after
| 2022? Isn't 2024 or even 2025 the perfect time to launch an
| upgrade for SE or Mini? They now have enough data since the
| last launch of a small phone.
|
| iPhone SE 1st gen 2016 (Discontinued 2018)
|
| iPhone 12 Mini 2020 (Discontinued 2022)
|
| iPhone SE 2nd gen 2020 (Discontinued 2022)
|
| iPhone 13 Mini 2021 (Discontinued 2023)
|
| iPhone SE 3rd gen 2022 (Discontinued 2025)
| tinytoon wrote:
| I can confirm, that Apple my misunderstood the market: I
| was eager to buy a new iPhone because I just finished my
| masters degree and started a new job, had a bit of money
| and than the SE2 launched. My 5s or SE1 started to age and
| as an beginner app developer a current phone was important.
| I was so happy because I could not see my self using one of
| those bigger phones even though the SE2 was still bigger
| than my 5s/SE1. A few months later the mini was released
| and my initial reaction was "OMG this is THE perfect phone,
| but I just got a new one... i can not afford to buy another
| one".
| jorvi wrote:
| The problem is that people who want a small phone
| prioritize the size.
|
| Most of them don't care about the premium features of
| larger phones. So the Mini was a weird niche within a
| niche. Small phone with premium price and features.
|
| The Mini and SE2 were virtually identical in physical size.
| For the 16e they should have used the iPhone 12/13 Mini
| body and the 13 Mini screen. Use the 15 Pro SoC with 8GB
| memory, and the 15 camera. Sell it for an SE price. Now you
| have fused the small phone and budget iPhone markets.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Exactly. When my 13 Mini dies I'll buy the smallest
| iPhone at any price, whether low or high.
| Aunche wrote:
| The iPhone 13 mini had even worse performance than the
| iPhone 12 mini even though it wasn't released alongside an
| SE.
| danieldk wrote:
| I don't know. I think the SE was there there to generate
| services income (Apps, Apple Music, etc.) from people who
| wouldn't buy an iPhone otherwise. The design was
| intentionally very stale to avoid cannibalization of their
| flagships. I don't think a lot of people who bought flagship
| iPhones before would go to an SE. Imagine going from an
| iPhone X or XS to an SE, it's a big downgrade. People were
| not buying the SE because of the size, but because it was
| cheap (the iPhone 16e that is the cheaper model now, has the
| same size as the 16).
|
| My wife, I, and several people I know had iPhone 12 or 13
| Mini. Their battery life was pretty terrible and word soon
| got out it was. I think this was in the end what killed it
| for people who are normally buying Apple flagships and were
| considering a Mini. It was very hard to get through the day
| with a Mini.
|
| Besides the abysmal battery life, I think the market for
| small phones is maybe simply not there. Samsung keeps around
| one smaller model (base S-series) and arguably the Z Flip is
| a smaller model (but persistent hardware issues). If there
| was a large demand for flagship-class small phones, I am sure
| some Android manufacturers would make them.
| usrusr wrote:
| They could have made the SE large but slow (instead of
| small and slow) and avoided all cannibalization future and
| present.
|
| My hypothesis about the supposed non-existence of the small
| phone buyer is that they very much do exist (personally,
| haven't bought anything other than whatever was the
| smallest Xperia at the time in more than a decade), but
| that this group has little overlap with the group willing
| to buy for list price on release day. But the perception of
| success of a given phone is very much dominated by the
| latter, the long tail of buyers isn't really seen. Even if
| the release day premium over mid-lifecycle street price (in
| countries where price fixing is not allowed) goes to the
| retailer and is of very little interest to the
| manufacturer.
|
| Manufacturers should just move compacts to a three year
| cycle and forget everything about hyper-optimizing
| desirability for the kind of buyer who spends too much time
| reading questionable review sites.
| philwelch wrote:
| I've never had battery issues with my mini. But then again,
| I just want an unobtrusive tool. You can make a lot more
| money selling phones that are targeted to
| compulsive/addictive "whales" than you make selling normal
| phones for normal people.
| whilenot-dev wrote:
| This is my take as well. I bought the SE 2nd gen because of
| its size, a longer support cycle, and granular app
| permissions on iOS. It was my first iPhone and has probably
| been my last when its time is due.
|
| My phone isn't some entertainment device, it's a utility
| tool. I don't need it to be "smart", it should be useful on
| the go. The persona sketched by GP just isn't me: Messaging,
| maps, weather, 2FA, and calculator come first, email (read
| only) and news feed second, the camera is a third for
| documenting purposes (if even, I'd rather take my full
| frame). The easier it is to carry this thing around and the
| longer lasting its build quality, the better. Why would I pay
| almost double (USD 699 VS 399 on launch) for a less robust
| mini with sharper edges?!
|
| If Apple were to continue the offer of rehashed designs from
| previous generations (preferably with rounder edges) for a SE
| line, limit its dimensions to never go beyond 140x67.5x8mm,
| and make it last for solid 5-year release cycles, then count
| me in as your most loyal customer. As it currently stands I'm
| looking out for a small sized phone from any manufacturer. I
| would even lower my expectations on support cycle and build
| quality quite a bit (if reasonable priced) before I'd give in
| on the size.
| brucehoult wrote:
| I've been an iPhone user since late 2007. I current use an
| SE 2022 and love it.
|
| I've gone iPhone -> 3GS -> 4 -> 5s -> 6s -> 7 -> SE 2020 ->
| SE 2022.
|
| The Mini never interested me. I love the SE. I love the
| home button and TouchID. I love the traditional size. If I
| want more I have an iPad Pro (12.9" original 2015 model
| bought in 2015 -- the battery still lasts 2 weeks with my
| usage pattern) or M1 Mac Mini with a 32" 4k screen.
|
| If they don't make a new SE model I don't know what I'll
| do. I guess, firstly, get a new battery for it before it's
| out of the support window. Maybe sometime next year. And
| then see how long app updates support whatever the last OS
| version it will run is.
|
| The ONLY thing I'd change in my SE, if it was possible, is
| more than 4 GB of RAM. The latest models have 8 GB and the
| others at the time the SE was sold already had 6 GB.
|
| With recent system updates I'm getting a lot more of
| applications restarting when I switch back to them. This is
| mostly not a huge problem, except that the X app loses your
| place in the "Following" stream if you're more than a few
| hours behind and the app reloads.
| randomcarbloke wrote:
| I'm still using a 13 mini, it's fractionally too large, I
| think the original SE is perfection.
|
| Regardless, battery life is horrendous now, and it's starting
| to lag and fail so when the new ultra watch is released I'm
| going to replace my phone with it.
| easton wrote:
| Getting the battery replaced fixed mine (and seemed to
| mildly improve system performance, although maybe that's
| placebo), might be worth a shot if you like the form
| factor.
| rekoil wrote:
| Depending on how degraded the original battery was it
| isn't necessarily placebo. If iOS detects a severely
| degraded battery it will clock down the CPU slightly to
| cope with it, sacrificing a little performance to keep
| the device stable.
|
| With 3rd party batteries it can't do this, so it doesn't
| (I think, will admit I'm not entirely sure exactly how
| iOS deals with 3rd party batteries it can't determine the
| status of), and if you replaced it with an official part
| then it would have been in good condition, so regardless
| which road you took, it's possible that you went from a
| state where the OS was clocking down, to one where it
| wasn't anymore.
|
| Source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575
| pyman wrote:
| The problem is not the battery, it's the battery,
| processor and price.
|
| The iPhone 13 Mini made up around 3% of total iPhone
| sales, so there's clearly a market for compact, mid-range
| phones ($600-$700). You can manufacture them in China or
| India for somewhere between $250 and $400, depending on
| the battery, camera, and overall performance.
|
| The real challenge is that the retail price of a mid-
| range Android phone can't go over the $500 mark. People
| in developing countries are always stuck trying to
| balance quality with price. And for $500 bucks they
| expect a prime phone nowadays.
| acheong08 wrote:
| > If iOS detects a severely degraded battery it will
| clock down the CPU slightly
|
| I currently have this problem (iPhone 11). It's not
| slight at all. Keyboard inputs sometimes has up to a full
| 1000ms latency and that's with autocorrect, suggestions,
| and spellcheck turned off. Scrolling in most apps are
| jumpy rather than smooth. When this phone dies, I don't
| know what I'll get. Hopefully a good linux phone exists
| by then.
| randomcarbloke wrote:
| it has a few dings on the frame and I'm not especially
| attached to the form factor more significantly I am
| addicted to it and need a viable alternative.
| Jaxan wrote:
| I still use my first gen SE and have had the battery
| replaced once.
| tim333 wrote:
| Same here. Stuck with SE2 till it stopped catching pokemon
| properly. Currently pleased with the iPhone 13 mini. I
| think part of why I like small phones is I carry a laptop
| and hate web browsing / typing on the phone. It's mostly a
| modem and camera for me.
|
| Also having a laptop means the battery doesn't matter that
| much as you can just charge it off that.
| coxley wrote:
| That makes sense.
|
| I love my iPhone 13 Mini. Its only issues are battery life
| (now), and non-competitive camera. I'm personally happy with
| the photos it takes, but then I look at my girlfriend's shots
| and get FOMO.
|
| While I doubt it's economical, I'd love a small, simple phone
| with juiced up camera. I'd be fine with worse battery life as
| external batteries can remedy that in a pinch.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| I have a 12 mini, it's about as large a phone as I'd want.
| I wish the back and/or bezel were a little "grippier" as
| the phone as it's made is so slippery it almost demands a
| case, but that adds bulk.
|
| Unlike many it seems, I don't care much about the camera.
| I'd probably want some sort of camera for scanning QR
| codes, or snapping a quick photo of something I want to
| look up later, but otherwise I don't take photos or videos
| on my phone. I don't use any social media on my phone other
| than text messaging. This makes the smaller battery
| size/capacity a non-issue.
|
| Since Apple no longer makes a reasonably-sized phone I'll
| probably go back to Android after this one dies or becomes
| unsupported.
|
| I also think it's silly to carry a $1,000 device around
| with you everywhere, so a "premium" small phone is probably
| a non-starter for me. My favorite phones were the ~$200
| Moto-G phones I had before I got the iPhone (it was a
| gift).
| dontlaugh wrote:
| I wish they made it thicker. It could easily fit better
| cameras and a bigger battery.
| chunkyguy wrote:
| This is so true. I switch from iPhone 5s to iPhone SE to
| iPhone 13 mini. After my current phone dies I don't know what
| phone would I get next.
| jayd16 wrote:
| What an angry way to say "they're bigger because people use the
| screen for apps and media."
| aucisson_masque wrote:
| It's an interesting take but I believe most people just prefer
| bigger phone. I know it's weird to those of us who like the
| opposite and funnily enough it's often women who have gigantic
| phone, which they can't put in their tiny jean pocket.
|
| I don't explain it and every time I get explained they like it
| better because it's got bigger battery and bigger screen, I
| just don't understand how you could live your life with a brick
| constantly on you but it's what people want.
|
| The market just adapted to the demand and it's not a 40k <<
| petition >> that will change much.
| LtWorf wrote:
| Do you have any fact at all to back your opinion?
| FinnKuhn wrote:
| > I know it's weird to those of us who like the opposite and
| funnily enough it's often women who have gigantic phone,
| which they can't put in their tiny jean pocket.
|
| Most women carry their phone in a hand bag anyway as the
| pockets on most pants for women are way to small either way
| [1].
|
| [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/06/style/pockets-womens-
| clot...
| prmoustache wrote:
| Most women pants have no or fake pockets anyway, So the
| smartphone to pants pocket size relationship is usually
| only a parameter for men.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| The pants thing is another baffling mystery. I know
| exactly _zero_ women who want their pants to not have
| pockets. Yet manufacturers absolutely refuse to add
| pockets. It seems like a complete market failure.
| dheera wrote:
| Curious, what happened to the Palm phone (https://palm.com/)?
| zerr wrote:
| I'd say the same goes for the removal of FM Radios from
| mainstream phones.
| keyringlight wrote:
| FM radio uses the headphone cable as an antenna, so with the
| move to bluetooth I assume it got squashed for similar
| reasons. The other aspect is it assumes if you want live
| radio that you're happy needing an active data connection and
| allowance, any any local stations have a stream available.
| One of the things I love about streaming (via RadioDroid,
| etc) is that you can get a station from anywhere on the
| planet but sometimes you want something a bit more basic.
| fsflover wrote:
| https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-
| hidde...
| tomwheeler wrote:
| > FM radio uses the headphone cable as an antenna, so with
| the move to bluetooth I assume it got squashed for similar
| reasons.
|
| Some may prefer Bluetooth headphones, and there are
| countless apologists who now retroactively parrot the
| manufacturers' excuses for why headphone jacks were
| eliminated, but it wasn't something the _users_ asked for
| or wanted.
|
| "Oh, but phones are waterproof now," they claim! Well, so
| was the Samsung Galaxy S5 I bought in 2014. And by the way,
| it also had a user-removable battery, removable storage, an
| FM radio, and an IR blaster. All these years later, you
| can't find a new phone with all of those features and it's
| very difficult to find a flagship phone with even _one_ of
| them.
| dakiol wrote:
| I don't know.If I have a "big" phone (anything bigger than the
| iphone mini, at least for me), I'll leave it at home most of
| the time. But if it's small, I'll take it with me everywhere.
| So I can be bombarded with crap more time if I use a small
| phone.
| pyman wrote:
| Phones are big now because people want better cameras and
| longer battery life. Also, people are spending 4-5 hours more
| per day on screens than they did 15 years ago, so they want
| bigger screen for reading, playing games and watching videos.
| volemo wrote:
| I know I can't claim to be "the norm", but all I want is a
| smaller phone with 1-2 day battery life. I don't need a
| better screen, a better camera, or ever more compute. (It's
| a freaking smartphone, not a game console!) All I need my
| phone to do is run a web browser, messaging apps, maps, my
| banking app, and random little apps some organisations
| force you to use - like my university's app, my city's
| public transport app, or half the restaurants here. Things
| that could easily be done with 10-15 year old hardware.
| Sadly, the industry chose to keep the power consumption
| constant increasing while computational power, instead of
| focusing on smaller devices and longer battery life with
| the same power.
|
| Again, I'm not angry that current phones exist; I'm just
| sad there aren't (good) alternatives - at least that I know
| of.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Did I read it right, are you installing "resstaurants
| apps"?
| volemo wrote:
| Yep, in my area a couple of dining places only list their
| menu in an app [1], a bunch of places have some kind of
| membership program accessible through the app, and one
| standup club requires (!) an app to order drinks and
| food.
|
| [1]: There's a paper one in the restaurant, of course,
| but I like to choose beforehand.
| bapak wrote:
| Pointless rant. Apple does not earn more or less depending on
| how many ads it can show.
|
| The market has spoken, it's not worthwhile for Apple to produce
| small phones.
|
| There are a million companies that are not Google that could
| also produce mini phones and don't for the same exact reason:
| most people want large screens to enjoy videos and photos.
|
| Nobody cares about small screens and pockets, everyone holds
| their phones in their hands or purses at all times.
| raynr wrote:
| I think that's the cart before the horse. People buy the big
| phones and so businesses cater for that.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| Just like 16e, Mini and SE were meant to push up the sales of
| their "other" phones. Otherwise they would not have had both
| Mini and SE. I mean it was a joke.
|
| But Hanlon's razor and the way Apple has been on a screwing up
| spree of late I doubt it was anything intentional. They f'ed up
| knowing not what to do at all. They don't anymore.
| atemerev wrote:
| Sometimes assuming just a tiny bit of malice can explain what
| otherwise had to be explained by a lot of stupidity.
|
| Occam's razor beats Hanlon's razor.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| Conspiracy minded bullshit.
|
| Like it or not, Apple keeps cancelling smaller phone lines
| because they don't sell well. That's it. If they sold really
| well then they'd keep selling them, but they don't.
|
| I would also love more capable small phones personally, but I
| can't deny that people overall don't seem to want them.
| sjw987 wrote:
| I posted a bit too late and didn't see your post first, which
| more or less is exactly along my thinking.
|
| Modern phones are sold (even at profit) with the intent that
| there is more payments/ad revenue coming down the line, for
| movies, TV, games and web browsing/social media. A big screen
| makes that experience better for people and advertisers. It's a
| cynical take, but the entire business model is based on
| building and promoting addiction.
|
| They have no interest in selling phones for utility purposes
| only, even though that's largely how they advertise the phones,
| because advertising a 5 hour plus daily screen time isn't sexy
| at all.
| amelius wrote:
| Yes, the iPhone is basically a vending machine in your pocket.
| Owned and run by Apple. But you paid for it. Quite smart,
| actually.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I feel that the problem with small phones roots in software.
| Obviously you would need to run smaller resolution. My sweet
| spot was iPhone 4S. It has 3.5" display with 640x960
| resolution. If you would try to run modern Android with this
| resolution, you would hit multiple obstacles, from popular apps
| to popular websites scaling badly.
| raxxorraxor wrote:
| Many people in Asia seem to prefer gigantic screens and since
| it is the largest market, most phones get produced that way.
| mpascale00 wrote:
| I mean, are the phones themselves really making money off ads
| or are those totally separate companies? I don't disagree that
| this brings in business, but I don't agree that this is a
| significant motivator in terms of phone sizes
| robertoandred wrote:
| I want an iPhone mini-sized iPhone again...
| mobilio wrote:
| SE user here... AMAZING device for it's size.
|
| Now i'm on SE 2020, but every day i miss original SE form-
| factor.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I considered the SE2 but went with the regular iphone after
| seeing the battery life was much worse on the SE2. Think
| that's probably what killed the iPhone mini too.
| luxuryballs wrote:
| Theory: I prefer the iPhone mini _because_ my hands are bigger. I
| think some people with smaller hands care less because they
| aren't losing as much control as I am when the phone is bigger,
| not as much of a ratio difference.
| theendisney wrote:
| I want a thick clunky device without a screen that can run for
| 4-7 days without charging. Then i want 1) a normal size device,
| 2) a tiny one and 3) a tablet. These should be terminals, little
| more than a screen, a battery and some radio to communicate with
| the herefore mentioned brick that does all of the heavy lifting.
| It needs only 20-30 meter range. The brick may also feature a
| webserver captive portal with public bluetooth and wifi access.
| rjsw wrote:
| I have a Nokia 6300 4G Dual SIM KaiOS phone that I can use as a
| 4G router for larger devices but has good battery life as a
| feature phone.
| derefr wrote:
| Except that the screen and the radio are 80% of power usage, so
| this doesn't help anything. For what most people do with their
| laptop/tablet/phone, the little bursts of CPU are effectively
| "free" -- increasingly cheap with each process shrink! -- while
| the IO is as expensive as ever.
| theendisney wrote:
| What fun comment. You are mistaken in so many ways :)
|
| When idle GSM uses a lot of power. Listening for a wakeup
| signal doesnt seem expensive at all. It even seems one could
| pull off the trick for free.
|
| Free < bluetooth < wifi < gsm
|
| There shall be e-paper ofc
|
| The brick can have a battery like that of a quality
| powerbank. For emergency charging the display snaps on top
| with some magnets.
|
| There will be heavy cpu loads with lots of reads and writes.
|
| Think a room full of people hammering the media server.
|
| Host websites on it. Imagine the fun!
|
| GPUs may work quite hard to decode and fit the picture on the
| screen. How to do io better is left as an exersize for the
| reader. (Zhe Yi Wei Zhao Ni )
|
| Whatever components we can get rid of buys extra space for
| the battery.
|
| It also makes the handheld device cheaper to replace.
|
| You may swap the battery or have a spare.(slide the empty one
| into the brick)
|
| You may also break or lose it. It can conveniently be
| replaced. Nothing important is stored on it.
|
| Lets make them with and without cameras. Imagine the
| opportunity to not make photos :)
| derefr wrote:
| To be clear, I meant that, when running your average (i.e.
| mostly-idle, not-very-graphically-intense, yet smoothly-
| animated) interactive-UI application, with the CPU+GPU
| module needing to stream vaguely-realtime updates
| wirelessly over to the display module, the display module
| would end up using nearly as much battery to receive and
| display the updates as the CPU+GPU module would be taking
| to generate and send them. It would be a negligible cost
| for the display module to just do the rendering itself.
|
| Playing games or using the CPU+GPU module as a media server
| is a 1%-of-the-time use-case. If you want this architecture
| to not need a lot of battery in the display module, it
| needs to be low-power for the 99%-of-the-time use-case:
| scrolling a webpage.
|
| (This is basically the classical thin-client / fat-client
| paradox: thin clients save on power right until you want
| them to do anything continuously. Then the IO costs
| outweigh the hypothetical costs of localizing that
| continuous CPU/GPU activity by pushing it down into a fat
| client.)
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I initially thought this was a satire of the absurd devices HN
| users would ask for.
| theendisney wrote:
| Then it would be monochrome cli ssh only.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| > I want a thick clunky device without a screen that can run
| for 4-7 days without charging.
|
| That's a landline phone, you can buy it for cheap.
| nomel wrote:
| > It needs only 20-30 meter range.
|
| And, this is trivially satisfied with a $10 extension cord.
| theendisney wrote:
| That would be a different idea i also like. Something like
| calls over wifi but use ethernet in stead. No more
| radiation
| zimmund wrote:
| so... VoIP?
| nomel wrote:
| I was thinking a regular analog POTS phone. ;)
| ianburrell wrote:
| What you need is a power bank. Then you can charge your phone,
| or any other device Why do you need multiple days? Charge your
| devices overnight. Get a fast charger that charges in minutes
| if you forget or are out. There are power banks with builtin
| chargers.
|
| Also, if you want really small device, I found smartwatches are
| nice adjunct to phone. Can check notifications and do basic
| things on watch instead of pulling out phone. The watch uses
| phone for data, but there is no point in terminals when
| smartwatch chip can handle that. There are watches with LTE
| that work without the phone.
| system2 wrote:
| There is Unihertz, but their 5G model is crap. They also don't
| update their OS.
|
| I believe the big manufacturers don't want to make a small phone
| (as other users have indicated) because of the big screen's
| addictiveness. Also, they can't fit a large battery in them so
| battery life would be a few hours with 1000mp 16k cameras.
|
| I'd rather carry a 1" thick, 4" tall phone than a 0.3" thick 8"
| tall phone. No pants pockets look normal anymore, and it is even
| more awkward to walk with tight pants.
| krater23 wrote:
| Got two weeks ago a update for my jelly star. Don't know what
| they changed, whas not many, maybe some bugfixes. But I would
| be really angry when they just change the android version and
| the way I have to use the phone just with a over the air update
| that is installed without warning with one button press.
| system2 wrote:
| Android 16 is out, and Jelly Star is still Android 13.
| Unihertz doesn't even have that many phones to worry about
| updates. I don't understand why they aren't updating it to
| the latest. Look at the iPhone 11. Got iOS 18 after 6 years.
| ActorNightly wrote:
| I had the titan pocket. The freaking wifi would just randomly
| disconnect.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > I believe
|
| You can believe whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true.
| We know exactly why they make larger devices and it's not a
| secret, it's what consumers by and large want. It's not a
| conspiracy.
|
| Every time a vendor falls for the "we want small phones" thing,
| they sell poorly thus proving the point again and again that
| it's a minority at best that are interested.
| krater23 wrote:
| I want it too. And I have it: https://www.unihertz.com/en-
| de/products/jelly-star
|
| I have it since more than a year. I had the first one two weeks
| because I lost it as it fall through a hole in my pocket. So fix
| your pockets and buy this phone. I'm really happy with it :) And
| didn't found bugs since I have it.
| fgblanch wrote:
| Funny enough, in 2023, Asus released a good very close to iphone
| Mini-size android phone. The asus zenfone 10.
| https://www.asus.com/us/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenf...
| wilsonnb3 wrote:
| I don't know why it was reported so frequently as a compact
| phone, the ZenFones are much larger than the iPhone mini. It's
| the same size as a standard iPhone or Galaxy S series.
| quirino wrote:
| https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-
| iPhone-13-mini,...
|
| I was convinced you were wrong but that's correct. The Mini
| is much smaller and the Zenfone is about the same size as the
| regular iPhone.
| pohuing wrote:
| Not only is it not a very small phone, I can't even properly
| type this message one handed. It's also not a good phone which
| I regret purchasing.
|
| Zenphones until the 10 had easy to unlock bootloaders, leading
| to long in official support by the community. However with the
| 10 ASUS stopped that tool and they've been lying ever since
| that they're still working on it.
|
| My zenfone is now on its final major android update, the rather
| minor android 15 version, and I've only got two years of
| security updates left until I need to look for a new phone.
| That's one thousand euros for barely four years of software
| support, it's such a disappointment.
|
| That aside the camera is lackluster, it's auto whitebalance is
| horrific, turning the same snowy scene into a sunset or
| illuminated by fluorescent light depending on the phase of the
| moon and it's sampling questionable making images much more
| blurry in a surreal way. But the optical stabilisation is
| seriously impressive. Overall I preferred the pixel 4a's images
| though. A smaller phone and my zenfone's predecessor.
|
| At least I get to just plug it into my stereo thanks to the
| 3.5mm jack though.
| Marazan wrote:
| Agree on the Camera, bafflingly bad.
|
| Thumbs up on the headphone jack though. Can't fault it there.
| sabellito wrote:
| Despite sibling comments, it's still a smaller phone compared
| to others from the same year. I have one and I'm extremely
| satisfied with it.
| mdasen wrote:
| The Zenfone 10 is closer to an iPhone than an iPhone mini.
|
| iPhone 16/Zenfone/13 Mini (in mm)
|
| Height: 147.6/146.5/131.5 - the mini is 15mm shorter than the
| Zenfone which is only 1.1mm shorter than an iPhone.
|
| Width: 71.6/68.1/64.2 - the mini is 3.9mm thinner than the
| Zenfone which is 3.5mm thinner than an iPhone
|
| Depth: 7.8/9.4/7.7 - the Zenfone is significantly thicker than
| the iPhones.
|
| Volume: 82.4/93.8/65.0 cubic cm - the Zenfone is physically
| larger than an iPhone 16 by a decent margin.
|
| The Zenfone simply isn't close to an iPhone mini size. It's
| larger than an iPhone by volume and the depth does matter when
| holding it. If we're talking about front-edge to opposite
| front-edge, we're talking about 87.2mm for the iPhone vs 86.9mm
| for the Zenfone and 79.6 for the Mini. The Zenfone saves you
| 0.3mm in grip-distance over an iPhone, but a Mini saves you
| 7.6mm in grip-distance.
|
| Heck, let's look at weight. A Zenfone is 172g, iPhone 170g,
| iPhone mini 141g. The Zenfone is the heaviest of the three.
|
| One of the big limiting factors for Android phone manufacturers
| is the battery. iOS is a ton more efficient. The Zenfone is
| thicker to accommodate a 4300mAh battery compared to the iPhone
| 16's 3561mAh (21% larger battery). And the Zenfone's battery is
| kinda small by Android standards.
|
| People often don't think about the challenges of making a small
| phone. The electronics don't shrink. If you need a certain
| square mm for those electronics, they take up a larger
| percentage of the interior on your mini. You don't need as
| large a battery because the screen it is powering is smaller,
| but not proportional to its size - you're still drawing the
| same power for all the electronics. So you have a smaller
| percentage of interior space for the battery and you need a
| larger battery relative to the interior space - or you need to
| sacrifice battery life as Apple did with the mini.
|
| For example, the iPhone 13 mini is 84.4 sq cm and has a 2438mAh
| battery. The iPhone 13 is 104.9 sq cm with a 3240mAh battery.
| The iPhone 13 is 24% larger, but can accommodate a 33% larger
| battery - because the electronics take up basically the same
| space regardless of form factor.
|
| So to make an Android mini, you'd be sacrificing a lot of
| battery life. The Zenfone is not a mini. Its grip-size is
| basically identical to an iPhone. In every way, it's much more
| an iPhone than a mini.
| fgblanch wrote:
| Commenting just to appreciate this analysis. I totally bought
| the marketing that this was a small phone, while it seems it
| just had a small screen.
| burnt-resistor wrote:
| Of phones I owned 10+ years ago:
|
| iPhone 6S: 138.3/67.1/7.1 = 65.9 cc the mini is just barely
| smaller.
|
| iPhone 4S: 115.2/58.6/9.3 = 62.8 cc smaller than the mini.
|
| Treo 650: 113/59/23 = 153 cc which is about the same volume
| as a Galaxy Z Fold 3... the displacement was so
| uncomfortable, people often used hip holsters for the former.
| roytam87 wrote:
| but I missed MicroSD slot. I think my requirement is simple:
| not too wide (<=70mm), has 3.5mm audio pack, and has MicroSD
| slot.
|
| and end-up only Sony products comes out. and I sacrificed
| performance for a shorter phone so I bought Xperia Ace III.
|
| but I don't know when will my ISP shutdown GSM-1800. If this
| happens I have to buy Xperia 10 series then.
| kps wrote:
| I want a pocket computer with phone connectivity (because too
| much still demands a phone number).
| derefr wrote:
| Why not a pocket computer with wifi + a softphone app + a
| virtual PBX service (e.g. voip.ms) for that softphone app to
| connect to?
|
| As a bonus, your phone number wouldn't be bound to that device,
| but instead would exist everywhere you can install the same
| softphone app.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| Most things which require a phone number block any kind of
| virtual number service since the only reason they are asking
| for a phone number is anti spam and KYC.
| efskap wrote:
| I tried to make the softphone approach work but I was
| unreachable far too often when Android decided to kill
| whichever softphone app I tried.
|
| And if it did keep running, I'm pretty sure it consumed
| decently more energy than a dedicated telephony module. And
| yeah as mentioned, even with a "real" local phone number
| ported to voipms, I wasn't able to get sms codes from some
| services.
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| 6" doesn't register as small to me at all lol. The HTC 8X was
| 4.3" and that was a "normal" sized phone for me.
|
| I used the Palm Phone (PVG100) (3.3" screen) (basically the size
| of a credit card) [ https://www.ricklohre.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2020/01/dsc_097... ] as long as I could until it
| became too slow to use as software got slower and increasingly
| battery-hungry and I had to give it up last year.
|
| Right now I have a Soyes S10Max, which has a 3.5" screen (same
| screen size as the original iPhone), but it's kinda chunky.
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRZ47T53?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_...
|
| The specs are more than strong enough to handle whatever I need
| on a daily basis. But I miss the slimmer size of the Palm Phone.
|
| Right now I've pre-ordered this phone
| https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-nx1-4-0-android-smartpho...
| with the 8gigram+128gig storage capacity. Has an even stronger
| cpu than the Soyes, but I am slightly worried about the
| resolution of 540x1168px because some elements may end up
| overlapping.
|
| Even though it's 4", it has a tiny bezel so it's only slightly
| bigger than the Palm Phone, although a bit thicker cuz of a
| bigger battery. But still relatively slim, especially compared to
| the Soyes.
|
| Front comparison:
| https://preview.redd.it/dtwnubx05scf1.png?width=3840&format=...
|
| https://preview.redd.it/s2391amd7hbf1.png?width=320&crop=sma...
|
| Will see!
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| At $138 I can't imagine that the Bluefox NX1 will perform very
| well.
|
| (By the way from some reason aiphor.com automatically redirects
| me to google.com unless I disable Javascript.)
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| The Soyes S10Max performs fine with 8 gigs of ram and a
| slightly slower mobile CPU. The most intensive thing I do on
| it is probably video call with people on FB Messenger or
| Telegram (or I guess load TicketMaster, but even my gf's
| expensive iPhone struggles with that one lmao), and it does
| that fine.
|
| But I'll write a review on reddit once I've used it for a
| week or two.
|
| No clue on aiphor.com, webdevs (or their managers) love
| javascript lol
| keyringlight wrote:
| I think performance requirements depend on what it's used
| for, and what other devices you have access to in your
| life. If someone only has one phone as their personal
| computer for everything then I can see an argument that the
| minimum should be higher, but if the phone is intended to
| be comfortably pocketable tool for tasks you're likely to
| need while away from a larger/more powerful device. For
| example have the phone to handle calls, simple messaging,
| taking photos (minus editing), transport/store apps, and a
| full PC or larger phone/tablet for ticketmaster.
|
| The only other option that I've toyed with is buying a
| small feature/"dumb" phone for going in the pocket and a
| smartphone in a bag, which seems less ideal.
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| >If someone only has one phone as their personal computer
| for everything then I can see an argument that the
| minimum should be higher
|
| Yeah for those people, they would need a beefier phone.
| That's certainly not me, I have devices at home. In my
| case, a pure dumb phone isn't of much use to me either, I
| make maybe one or two phone calls most months, but I've
| always used my phone as more of a borderline feature
| phone.
|
| >a full PC or larger phone/tablet for ticketmaster.
|
| The problem with ticketmaster is that you need to use it
| at the events themselves. Most events no longer use
| physical tickets. But a stronger phone or tablet won't
| help you here. Even on a high-end phone, ticketmaster
| will somehow forget to store your login information while
| you have poor network connectivity due to tons of people
| in the area, even if you try to load your tickets ahead
| of time to avoid the issue (although somehow they always
| deliver ads!). Everyone complains about ticketmaster's
| fees, but the app is the worst part.
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| Doesn't sound stellar, but 2x A75 and 6x A55 is probably not
| the worst experience? Helios G81. 12nm process.
| https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mediatek-Helio-G81-Ultra-
| Proce...
|
| An even slightly more mid-range spin on this would be very
| very viable.
| dannyfreeman wrote:
| Do these little phones work well in the US?
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| They seem to work fine on T-Mobile. I hear the Palm Phone had
| some issue with Verizon where it only worked as a "companion
| phone" and I hear AT&T limits what phones are allowed
| somehow, but I cannot speak to those things.
|
| They only have 4G rather than 5G. This has not bothered me
| but perhaps it would bother others.
| jbaber wrote:
| PVG 100 worked great with my carrier.
| jbaber wrote:
| I, too, used a PVG100 until it died. The "juicepack" battery
| doubled the thickness, but it still fit in my pocket. Now I've
| got a Motorola Razr. I figure the only way companies will give
| me a small phone if it folds.
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| I tried out the Razr and Z Flip 4 at a store but I thought
| they were too hard to use while closed and way too big when
| open.
|
| If you check /r/smallphones I'll post a review of the NX1 in
| a couple months (or whenever I get it + a week or two). It
| looks like the closest spiritual successor to the Palm Phone
| (although the single button on the foot with multiple actions
| will probably never be beat)
| notatoad wrote:
| you have to compare the actual phone sizes, not the screen
| sizes. bezels have gotten smaller.
|
| the article's "small phone" benchmark with a 5.4" screen is
| almost the same size in every dimension as your benchmark of
| the HTC 8x
|
| https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/HTC-8XT,Apple-iPhone-...
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| >you have to compare the actual phone sizes, not the screen
| sizes. bezels have gotten smaller.
|
| This is true, and it's hard to fully assess without a tool
| like you linked, which is pretty neat.
|
| >the article's "small phone" benchmark with a 5.4" screen is
| almost the same size in every dimension as your benchmark of
| the HTC 8x
|
| But as mentioned, I don't consider the 8X to be small. It's a
| standard-sized phone in my eyes.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| For me, screen size is what matters. Because I'm using
| screen. Small bezel is very bad thing, because it registers
| accidental touches now. Best phone in the history of mankind
| was iPhone 4S. Perfectly balanced. It's all went downhill
| since then.
| mnmalst wrote:
| Thanks for all the interesting links, the bluefox-
| nx1-specifically looks interesting to me. Do you have any
| information how are handling the new EU law, which requires 5
| years of security updates? https://single-market-
| economy.ec.europa.eu/news/new-eu-rules...
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| I have no idea, I don't work for them or live in the EU. But
| given that other users report problems loading the site,
| maybe they don't support EU customers. The phone exists in
| China but only started taking pre-orders in the US, so maybe
| it will change in the future.
| diggan wrote:
| > https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-nx1-4-0-android-
| smartpho...
|
| Huh, for some reason, this page loads properly and I can see it
| for 1-2 seconds, but it seems like as soon as it's done
| loading, it redirects me to google.com. Based in Spain, so
| guessing it's their way of turning away EU or European
| customers I guess?
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| They seem to be doing stuff by countries, probably due to
| regulations. The phone has existed in China for a bit already
| and only recently became pre-orderable in the US.
| diggan wrote:
| Strange approach to do a silent redirect instead of saying
| why it isn't available, makes it look broken rather than
| intentional.
| layer8 wrote:
| No 5G, no eSIM, no NFC, and a bit thick, though.
| paxys wrote:
| We've seen this story play out before. Every phone manufacturer
| has had the bright idea of introducing a small flagship. They
| spend a ton of money developing and marketing it. Internet people
| get excited. And when launched - no one buys it. They learn their
| lesson and move on.
| rtpg wrote:
| the foldables seem to have found their niche at least in this
| space though. But they get away with it by... also being a big
| phone
| walterbell wrote:
| iPhone Fold is rumored to be 5.5" screen size.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > They spend a ton of money developing and marketing it.
|
| I beg to differ. How much marketing money did Apple spend on
| the mini line, in comparison to the "standard" size ?
|
| > And when launched - no one buys it.
|
| Pixel 3 and 4a are still the most sold phones in the Pixel
| line.
|
| The news when Pixel7 was launched:
|
| https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/gadgets-news/this-is-the...
| MostlyStable wrote:
| It does not surprise me that the things that "internet" people
| want are not generally popular. What I don't understand is why
| that means they can't make money selling them anyways.
| Companies used to make money when the entire cell phone market
| was _dramatically_ smaller than today. Sure, maybe only 5% of
| customers want that phone, but 5% of a huge market is still a
| lot of people! I just have trouble believing that there isn't
| room for serving that segment of the consumer base.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Yeah, that is surprising and frustrating to me as well. I
| don't mind being a smaller market. Hell, I don't mind paying
| more because of it. But companies these days are largely
| unwilling to have a steady, sustainable business in a smaller
| market. The insatiable desire to capture the biggest market
| at all times leaves society as a whole much worse off,
| because if your needs aren't the most common - you simply
| cannot find anyone who will do business with you.
| adithyassekhar wrote:
| Slight tangent, I thought nowadays everyone is (are?) internet
| people. Everyone's on their phone all the time. Even if it's
| tiktok or instagram, why aren't brands spending to reach this
| audience.
| anxoo wrote:
| 1% of people post/comment, 99% like/retweet or just read.
| everyone you read on the internet is weird by default
| meatmanek wrote:
| Apple never released a flagship iPhone Mini, i.e. an iPhone
| Mini Pro. If you wanted good cameras (like the more useful 2x
| or 3x lens, rather than the mostly-useless 0.5x lens that they
| added to the base models), you had to get the large or larger
| phone.
|
| I would've bought the 13 Mini Pro if it had existed, but camera
| quality wasn't something I was willing to compromise on.
| dang wrote:
| Discussed at the time:
|
| _I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31411191 - May 2022 (1053
| comments)
| pelagicAustral wrote:
| I recently got a Samsung S25 and it's the best phone I've ever
| had. I went for the base model and the size is just perfect. It's
| a small enough phone that I barely feel I carry around all day.
| It's light and slim and has premium tier hardware so I don't miss
| out. Never paid more than PS300 for a phone before, but I am more
| than happy with this one.
| sircastor wrote:
| My iPhone 12 Mini's camera just broke (the zoom is failing..) I
| have been poking around for any solution that is around the same
| size. The best answer is generally never-heard-of companies that
| pop new phone models out and no certainty as to how long they'll
| last or be supported. That's on top of having to switch platforms
| (again).
|
| I'm resigned to getting a new iPhone in Sept - reluctantly.
| strathmeyer wrote:
| You can still get a PVG100 on Amazon
| andai wrote:
| I had a Samsung A3 (2016) which was almost the exact form factor
| of the iPhone Mini.
|
| I loved it for being so small and light. The last few years it
| became too slow for regular use (and many apps refused to
| install) so I put it in airplane mode and used it as an mp3
| player.
|
| I'd still be using it today, but I lost it! I was very sad.
|
| I also loved the LG K8 (2017), wonderful device. That one was a
| touch bigger, but had a really nice curved screen.
|
| I used an iPhone SE (2016) until last year actually, which was
| even smaller.
|
| It worked fine, until software updates made it useless. That's a
| recurring theme with my phones!
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| > I used an iPhone SE (2016) until last year actually, which
| was even smaller. It worked fine, until software updates made
| it useless. That's a recurring theme with my phones!
|
| Very similar story with me. The iPhone SE 1st gen was peak
| iPhone. Small, had a headphone jack (and could charge while
| using headphones), nice display, decent battery life. I
| absolutely loved that phone. I miss having it every day (when I
| have to use two hands to use this clunker of a phone I have
| now, when I sit down and feel this gigantic phone in my pocket,
| etc).
|
| I used my iPhone 4 until the cellular radio wasn't supported
| anymore. Then I moved into an iPhone SE 1st gen. When the
| battery bulged I killed it trying to replace the battery (I am
| not suited to small electronics repair). I gave up, at that
| point, and moved to a janky Android phone because I couldn't
| get any phone I wanted from Apple (small and with a headphone
| jack).
|
| I wish I could have enthusiasm for phones again. Everything
| isn't what I want.
|
| I certainly won't make the mistake of making a phone integral
| to my personal workflows and habits again. I certainly won't
| come to rely on any native apps anymore, either.
|
| I recognize I'm a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the
| market. Very few people regard their technology like I do. I
| feel like the computers (and, at one time, the phones) I use
| are extensions of myself. I think it's a little like how a
| musician might regard a beloved instrument, or a craftsman
| might regard a well-used tool. Very few people get bent out of
| shape about subtle changes in UI, appearance, latency, or
| functionality the way I do.
|
| I understand technology today isn't "for me".
|
| It makes me really sad, though.
| barbs wrote:
| I'm still on my first gen iPhone SE. Thankfully the apps I use
| are mostly compatible, and I just use web versions for
| everything else. Have replaced the battery and screen a few
| times each.
|
| This phone looks like it might be good replacement but it could
| also be a bit dodgy. I'm going to wait a bit for reviews before
| considering buying it https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-
| nx1-4-0-android-smartpho...
| maz1b wrote:
| I have on my desk, the Galaxy S8, iPhone SE (First generation),
| the iPhone 13 Mini, the iPhone 14 Pro and the Galaxy S22. I
| intentionally now choose and look for phones that are the
| smallest possible now (S25, iPhone 15pro or 16pro) etc
|
| My favorite to take with me is the 13 Mini. Would love an iPhone
| 18 mini.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| What a coincidence, I also want an iPhone mini-sized iPhone :)
| the 12 mini is the perfect size but sadly it was the last of its
| kind.
| phyrex wrote:
| There's a 13 mini
| bschwindHN wrote:
| I used the iPhone SE 1 until January of this year, it was such a
| great phone and a great form factor. I wrote an article about it
| to send it off:
|
| https://blog.bschwind.com/2025/01/11/the-original-iphone-se-...
| jihadjihad wrote:
| Pour one out. I'm still on my SE 2020 and have no idea what to
| go to once it dies.
| user_7832 wrote:
| Likewise. The 70-something percent battery health isn't the
| best (and the phone lags like crazy), but the other day I
| realized it's still a bit smaller than my 2015 Moto G3 (that
| I still use, though only for basic tasks).
|
| If you are interested, Unihertz launched the titan 2 and it's
| pretty nice, but no waterproofing or wireless charging are
| big issues for me.
| littlecranky67 wrote:
| An iPhone SE 2023 - it still gets current iOS version
| updates. My iPhone 8 is also still running (using iOS 16) but
| still gets security updates.
| ghiculescu wrote:
| I'm still rocking mine! Gonna start looking for second hand
| ones soon as the home button is starting to die, and that's the
| best bit.
|
| I found using the browser is a good enough alternative for many
| apps, and it also makes them less addictive because they aren't
| as slick. Particularly handy for work apps.
| barbs wrote:
| The home button's not too hard to replace, at least compared
| to the screen and battery.
|
| Mine actually broke ages ago but I've just gotten used to
| using TouchAssist.
| AiAi wrote:
| I'm still using as a secondary device, but the battery was
| never the same after I replaced, and the touch id/home button
| doesn't work anymore, so I have to use that virtual home
| button.
|
| I ended up getting a newer SE (2022), but I miss the first
| one.
| mrheosuper wrote:
| the ip12/13 mini have similar footprint, but with modern
| feature.
| bschwindHN wrote:
| Yep the 13 mini is what I ended up on. I hope that form
| factor gets a refresh in a few years!
| saagarjha wrote:
| I still have mine as the bedside Hacker News browsing device.
| It is so much nicer to use than iPhone 13 mini which I use as
| my main phone :(
| gandalfian wrote:
| Mobiles are made by Asian companies to Asian tastes. They like
| big screens so that's what we get. The two exceptions are apple
| iPhones and Google pixel. The two American companies making
| phones for American tastes. Shame as the old 4.5" mobiles had
| such large bezels they could have accommodated 6" modern
| screens...
| axus wrote:
| Just wait for smart watches to keep getting bigger until they are
| mini-phone sized?
| the__alchemist wrote:
| I recently bought a new Pixel 4 BC I want a fresh battery, but
| don't want anything bigger than this.
|
| There are so many Android phone models, but not a single one
| that's a reasonable size?
| ghostly_s wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini sized iPhone.
| ls-a wrote:
| I also wanted one, then Samsung released the foldable phones. The
| Z Flip was exactly what I wanted. Now that the Fold is so thin, I
| want it as a small iPad. I feel that Samsung has solved the small
| Android phone problem in a different way with foldables
| _heimdall wrote:
| I've wanted a small android phone for a while now too, but
| partly because I just don't care much for smartphones and want
| a small _and cheap_ option. Ideally it 'd be a pixel so that it
| should support GrapheneOS.
|
| The foldables are such an interesting concept. I actually had a
| Surface Duo for a while (though a different style of foldable)
| and really liked it, but I only had one after they were a year
| old and I could try it out with a used phone for ~$200.
| kbrackbill wrote:
| I guess people want different things out of small phones. I had
| a Z flip 3 for a few years because I thought the small pocket
| size would be nice, but it still doesn't solve the main issue
| that I can't reach the whole screen with my thumb. (and besides
| that I have a million other complaints about it, never going to
| buy a foldable again)
| grumpy_old_man_ wrote:
| I remember when people complained that the iphone 6 was
| ridiculously big ... I'll keep my 12mini until it dies. Then I
| might buy another 12mini on ebay. I don't edit videos on my phone
| That's what desktops are for.
| snats wrote:
| i get it. i want one of those. the problem is that most
| cellphones are not actual cellphones, they are entertainment
| machines. they are a pocket tv / social media feed place. most
| usage for my normal friends is for that.
| mannyv wrote:
| For most consumers their phone has become their primary device,
| so the big screens make sense. Computer at home? Nope.
|
| I have multiple screen with me, so my 13 mini is great.
| mixmix wrote:
| Funnily enough, I don't consider the iPhone 12/13 mini miniature
| at all. Granted, my hands are quite small even for someone of my
| height (5'7"), but remember those times people made fun of the
| iPhone 5 and of how gigantic it felt compared to 4S? I don't
| think human hands have grown that much since then. And I still
| believe the 1st generation SE is the best smartphone Apple has
| ever released: a rectangular screen, no camera bumps, a
| fingerprint sensor (that is still faster than Face ID), a mini
| jack, light, affordable, etc.
| kbrackbill wrote:
| The best phone I ever had was a Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact. I would
| still be using it if it wasn't too slow to run modern versions of
| android. This is one of those things that just makes me feel so
| out of touch with the rest of the world. Does everyone else have
| giant pockets and giant hands? Does everyone use their phone with
| two hands and carry a bag everywhere? Is it just a trend like
| small phones were a trend before smartphones? Why do people want
| these giant phones?
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| > Why do people want these giant phones?
|
| Most people only use computers at work, solely relying on
| smartphones for communication, media, shopping, etc.
|
| It makes sense to have a big screen at inconvenience of having
| to carry it around.
|
| What surprises me is how small the demand for small phones is.
| I have absolutely no need for a big screen - I have a monitor.
| shinycode wrote:
| I never ever use my laptop anymore outside of work. I never
| surf the web, read, order stuff etc from my laptop. It's
| basically useless now if I don't code or use pro apps. So a
| bigger phone is confortable because some websites suck on
| smaller screens and using an iPad is too big sometimes
| turtlebits wrote:
| For more and more people, their phone is their primary (or
| only) device. On a day to day, I have more face time with my
| phone than my personal laptop.
| Nursie wrote:
| > Does everyone use their phone with two hands
|
| A lot of us do, yes.
|
| > and carry a bag everywhere?
|
| As a guy in 36" waist jeans (yeah I need to lose a few kg)... I
| can fit an iphone 16 pro max in my pocket pretty comfortably.
|
| > Why do people want these giant phones?
|
| Well, one reason is that I'm getting older and don't find it as
| easy to read tiny text on tiny screens any more. Another reason
| is that I sometimes watch streaming services on there.
|
| Also it's shiny and the battery lasts forever.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Been happy with Sony Xperia 10 series, which is similar width,
| but taller as tallness really do not annoy me. Also massive
| battery. Sadly they are going to stop selling those here, so I
| might just need to go to Samsung next year...
| pessimizer wrote:
| > Does everyone use their phone with two hands
|
| They have to because of stupid pinch-to-zoom. You either have
| to balance the phone in the palm of your non-dominant hand
| (literally switch the phone from one hand to the other) while
| pinching with your dominant hand, or do a sort of goatse thing
| with your thumbs while holding the phone in both hands.
|
| Screw-to-zoom is a million times better: draw a spiral to the
| right and you get closer, spiral to the left and you get
| farther away (agreeing with the "righty-tighty, lefty-loosey"
| standard.) Easily done with any single finger, or even with the
| thumb of the hand holding the phone (for people with adequate
| thumb-wrestling skills.)
| famahar wrote:
| I have an xperia compact phone I bought for $50 in Japan. It's a
| bit slow, but I don't do much on it other than jot down notes,
| maps, photos (the lens is a bit broken so it creates a cool lens
| flare effect), and messaging. Fits nicely in my pocket and hand.
| A giant phone just seems so silly to me.
| BuckRogers wrote:
| iPhone 12 mini lover and user checking in here. The haters will
| berate us for our choice stating that "no one wants a small
| phone", but that's a lie. Normal sized phones were never going to
| be instant day-one hits. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to
| launch them during Covid, offer them 2 years, and say no one
| wants them.
|
| Give them a permanent place in the lineup, treating phones like
| every other very personal device meant for humans. Small, medium,
| and large.
|
| If you do that, and give people time to see exactly why 5.42
| screens are superior to 6.1"+ sizes, then I think the numbers
| will start to change from what we saw with the iPhone 12 mini and
| iPhone 13 mini, which were both launched when people were less on
| the go than in 100 years.
| yumenoandy wrote:
| i put my whole family on the last iphone mini generation
| MinimalAction wrote:
| I signed up for this perhaps two years ago. I don't remember the
| update banner being present at the top which says it's officially
| moving forward. I didn't find anything more on that, what's the
| actual status now?
| david422 wrote:
| I think it's a dead project. There hasn't been any updates. I
| signed up about the same time you did.
| grahar64 wrote:
| I wrote this post https://maori.geek.nz/small-light-robust-
| phones-for-a-type-1... that has a bunch of examples of small
| phones. The requirements are not exactly the same, but in the
| same boat as for want of good solid small phones.
|
| I recommend the pixel 4a 5g with LineageOS installed, or the Q9
| mini.
| VagabundoP wrote:
| I moved from a Pixel 2 to the Pixel 5 and I'm very happy small
| phone user.
| userbinator wrote:
| 12 years ago a small Chinese company made this Android clone of
| an iPhone 4, but with additional features:
|
| https://www.gizchina.com/2013/11/07/jiayu-g5-unboxing-hands-...
|
| https://www.gizchina.com/2013/09/18/exclusive-hands-video-st...
|
| https://www.gizmochina.com/2013/09/22/teardown-picture-jiayu...
|
| That was the "peak smartphone" era for me; lots of companies
| making slightly different variations on Androids, at relatively
| low prices, but almost all of them with the same basic set of
| practical features which are nearly extinct today. Now it seems
| all we get are faster CPUs and RAM, more (non-removable) storage
| and battery capacity, no headphone jacks, a very limited choice
| of screen sizes, and _far too many_ cameras along with the
| obligatory unremovable spyware and locked-down OS.
| mrheosuper wrote:
| I will hold my ip13 mini until i can't.
| dismalaf wrote:
| Small Android phones did exist. They got bigger because the big
| phones ("phablets") sold better.
|
| Also, you can buy reasonably sized Android phones. They're still
| big-ish compared to say, 2008, but not huge considering the lack
| of bezel.
| catlikesshrimp wrote:
| >> "Now I'm building Beeper - a universal chat app that lets you
| chat on 15+ different chat networks (including WhatsApp,
| iMessage, etc)."
|
| That is another idea which apple didn't like.
| nunez wrote:
| If there's anyone that can make this happen, it'll be Eric. I
| signed up and absolutely cannot wait for the Pebble hacker to do
| this.
| david422 wrote:
| I signed up 2 years ago. I think it's a dead project :(
| pentagrama wrote:
| iPhone 13 Mini (2023) = 5.4 inches (discontinued).
|
| Pixel 9 (2024) = 6.3 inches.
|
| I know the Pixel 9 is not that small, but is close and an
| excellent phone (base or Pro models, the XL is bigger).
| CephalopodMD wrote:
| you can pry my 13 mini from my cold dead hands
| jachee wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone again.
|
| I busted out my old 4S, and the fit//finish,, materials, and just
| how nice it is to hold in your hand and operate are still really
| nice. Would love to fill it with modern guts.
| exabrial wrote:
| same
| zhyder wrote:
| I had filled out the form for this. Wish Eric stuck to this
| instead of the Pebble revival: it'd have a bigger market.
|
| I don't understand how the market isn't considered big enough for
| any phone OEM: how can it be smaller than that of foldables? Or
| even if it is, isn't it still big enough, and shouldn't there
| generally be more sizes and form factors of phones?
|
| It's as tho the car industry decided to only make 184" long SUVs
| (6.2-6.7" phones) and 200" long 3-row SUVs (foldables)... no
| other SUVs, no sedans/hatchbacks, no sports cars (much smaller
| and much lower volume). And different cars are actually hard to
| engineer and mass-manufacture the chassis and bodies for... in
| contrast a phone's HW is inherently more modular and mostly just
| the screen and battery need to be changed for each size.
| notpushkin wrote:
| Wait, is there any chance Google has released Pebble OS source
| code so that Eric doesn't pursue making a small phone?
| Wistar wrote:
| Heck, I want a new iPhone mini sized iPhone. I am stubbornly
| sticking to my iPhone 12 Mini because it is the form factor I
| really want.
| ShadowBanThis03 wrote:
| You can't even buy an iPhone-mini-sized iPhone anymore.
|
| Get used to making calls on a TV tray, and walking around looking
| like a schlub in cargo shorts for the rest of your life.
| Scrapemist wrote:
| It is simply more difficult to cram the specs into a smaller form
| factor and they sell for less. A loose-loose situation. The same
| is happening in the tv market. 32" is disappearing because it's
| more expensive to build smaller 4k displays.
| mirkodrummer wrote:
| Imo the real problem here is being able to use a phone with one
| hand, UI standardization led both android and iphone unusable
| with one hand, so I'd argue we actually stopped research mobile
| touch interfaces. A smaller phone would still need you to stretch
| the thumb to the other side of the screen
| RachelF wrote:
| The Samsung S10e was probably peak Android. Small, high-end, SD
| card and 3.5mm jack.
|
| There are some decent small Android phones, if you're willing to
| buy non-mainstream brands. Take a look at:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/smallphones/
| smt88 wrote:
| There's nothing close to the iPhone Mini anymore though
| qingcharles wrote:
| The 13 Mini should still get iOS updates for another couple
| of years, I think?
|
| Certainly iOS 26 appears to be supported.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Through 2028 most likely, possibly longer, based on their
| OS support history (about 7 years).
| lohfu wrote:
| The 6s, released 2015, still gets security updates once
| in a blue moon
| ashellunts wrote:
| Fully agree. Mine has broken recently and I needed to buy a new
| phone. The S25 I have now is not much bigger, but even that
| small difference matters much. Though 120Hz screen is nice.
| ChrisRR wrote:
| As someone who often checks that sub, all I can say is that
| there's no decent small phones and it's just people constantly
| checking whether one has been released yet
| GuB-42 wrote:
| For me, it would be the Samsung Galaxy S5 but with modern
| hardware.
|
| In addition to being small, with SD card and 3.5mm jack, it is
| water resistant _and_ has a removable battery. It is also one
| of the most robust non-hardened phones. It has an IR blaster
| too if it matters to you.
|
| It was a time when Samsung was known for its gimmicks, the one
| for the Galaxy S5 is "Air View", where it recognizes your
| finger hovers over the screen. It is actually a good one,
| because it supports the "hover" targets in web pages!
|
| Most people find it ugly though, and I tend to agree, but if
| you use a case, like most people do, who cares what the phone
| inside looks like?
| Tade0 wrote:
| I've held on to my S8 as long as possible, because even if
| the battery wasn't removable any more, it lasted the lifetime
| of the device, despite heating up considerably during the
| summer.
|
| My current Xperia 5 maintains battery temperature around
| 10degC above ambient during fast charging and since it easily
| lasts the whole day in the 30-80% charge regime, I believe it
| will outlast other components.
| kasabali wrote:
| S8 was the first flagship released after imploding Note 7s,
| so it's possible they may've overshot in cell quality.
| koiueo wrote:
| Asus ZF10 is a more recent specimen. And it's more "peak" IMO.
| No bloatware, DC dimming, rugged design which doesn't require a
| case for everyday use.
| dalmo3 wrote:
| I've just bought a used s10e in pristine condition for $200.
| It's glorious.
|
| Re: TFA, I'm all for filling the small phone niche, but there's
| no way I'm paying a cent over $500 for a phone with no resale
| value.
| iamevn wrote:
| I'm very happy with my Unihertz Jelly Max aside from the camera
| being not great. I think it's the smallest it can reasonably be
| (62.7mm wide) while still having its touchscreen keyboard be
| usable and because it's fairly thick it actually feels good to
| hold in my hands and I don't need to stick one of those silly pop
| sockets on the back.
| xarope wrote:
| I dream of a foldable with an e-ink screen for multi-day usage,
| and an OLED screen when folded open for media/game consumption.
|
| Someone pinch me awake when that happens, thanks.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| Larger phones have better battery life time.
|
| Screen power draw and battery capacity scale as the square of the
| linear dimension. They largely cancel out.
|
| However, all the other hardware are a fixed size so
| proportionally large phones have longer battery lives.
| avereveard wrote:
| Also panel manufacturer will not run limited run 5.4in panel
| just for a niche market and if they did cost would be super
| high.
|
| Like internal component can be rearranged to an extent, and
| battery is a tradeoff, but the panel need to be one on the
| market, no demand, no panel
| coolg54321 wrote:
| Chinese manufactures has been using silicon carbon batteries
| with larger densities for long time, for example 6.3" vivo X200
| FE has a 6500mAh battery which should solve small phone-smaller
| battery problem
| mousethatroared wrote:
| Ya but manufacturers believe, rightly, that folks will always
| prefer battery life to pocket confort.
|
| I say this as someone who clung onto his 1st gen SE until I
| got my current 13 mini
| qwerty2000 wrote:
| Yeah... we definitely don't get what we want.
| billfor wrote:
| This was written before the Pixel 8, 8a, 9, and 9 pro. All of
| those are just slightly larger than a iPhone mini, at about 6.2".
| leidenfrost wrote:
| I have an S23 base for that exact reason.
|
| A full flagship phone at 6.1" size
| Trollmann wrote:
| They're slightly larger than a iPhone 16. Both are
| significantly larger than the mini iPhones.
| https://phonesized.com/compare/#2535,2552,1863
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| I literally have dwarf hands, after experimenting with various
| form factors I've settled on using iPhone SE (4.7") as the main
| phone and a android (6.7") running FOSS stack as the secondary
| phone.
|
| I get the "just works" with decent privacy aspect of the smaller
| iPhone, health benefits from Apple Watch and for anything
| requiring longer screen time, termux, shelter cloned apps etc. I
| use the bigger android (Infact I'm typing this on the excellent
| HN client Hacki from android).
|
| Earlier I used to use Apple Watch with android using a tool I
| built[1] which now serves notifications from android to my
| iPhone.
|
| I'm glad Eric is going ahead with the small phone.
|
| [1] https://github.com/abishekmuthian/apple-watch-with-android
| leke wrote:
| It was quite strange to read this title this morning as my 15
| year old daughter just received her iPhone 13 mini yesterday from
| Swappie. She too was complaining that the android phones are too
| big for her little hands.
|
| I tried all my reasoning skills to persuade her to stick with
| android, but ultimately she nagged me into getting a second hand
| one that is still way too expensive in my opinion.
|
| Well it looks like she is right and this is popular opinion.
| Perhaps small Android phones not selling well is a marketing
| problem. I've never seen one advertised with size being a selling
| point.
| adithyassekhar wrote:
| I think she prefers an iphone even if there was a tiny android
| phone.
| jeffhuys wrote:
| Thing about iphones is yea, they're expensive, but if well-
| cared for can last you longer. I'm on a 6-year upgrade cycle
| and could stretch that more if I wanted to. Will go from my 12
| pro to the 18 or 19 pro.
| QAkICoU7IDNkpFu wrote:
| I was using Xperia XZ1 compact (4.6") and then moved to Vivo X70
| pro+ (6.9") and it's so much easier for the eyes and typing. Yes,
| it's not the most convenient thing to carry around but I'd rather
| have less eye strain and typos.
|
| Also I think China makes 3-4" android phones but they're mostly a
| joke spec wise
| hexagonwin wrote:
| I'm still using a 2013 LG G2 (SD800) and can't find a single
| device that I can switch to. The compact size is just perfect.
| iPhone 5/s/e was also pretty good but apple killed them with
| updates :/
| user_7832 wrote:
| Just as an FYI to everyone who thinks such products are
| financially "infeasible" - look at companies like Unihertz (or
| heck, even Framework). Niche categories can and _do_ attract a
| small but devoted following.
|
| Btw:
|
| 1. Unihertz recently launched a BlackBerry esque phone (titan 2),
| if anyone reading this is interested. (Not sponsored by them)
|
| 2. There are many forums (and I think r/smallphones on reddit)
| where you can find much more discussion on such topics if you're
| interested.
| margalabargala wrote:
| Unihertz's phones are unfortunately simply technologically
| infeasible (to use). Their software is apparently write-once
| update-never, and any phone you buy of theirs will be riddled
| with permanent bugs.
|
| If Unihertz kept their phones up to date for a few years after
| launch, rather than only for the few years prior to launch,
| they would be an incredibly strong competitor in this space but
| as they are they are next to useless.
| oaiey wrote:
| Actually Framework is often asked to build a phone. So maybe
| the author should partner with them.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| Unihertz makes phones in a ton of interesting form factors. And
| then never support them with updates. The number of phones
| where my mouse has hovered over the "Add to Cart" button on
| their website before deciding updates are too important...
| ergocoder wrote:
| I want a reliable e-ink phone. Minimal phone is good but flaky to
| the point that it is annoying.
|
| Odd UX that can't be configured (and no idea why). For example,
| if you touch the power button, it'll unlock and wake up the
| phone. There's no way to turn that off and require a click. Other
| android phones can but not minimal. like what the hell was going
| through their decision making process?
| maxglute wrote:
| At this rate better chance of waiting for cover screen of flip
| foldables to be mini phone sized.
| rtcoms wrote:
| Samsung Z Flip 7 has that, it was launches few days back.
| O-stevns wrote:
| I got the iPhone 13 mini as a work phone for the sole reason of
| it being the smallest iPhone at the time. I too dislike the phone
| landscape nowadays with their ridiculous and ever increasing
| sizes.
|
| My personal device is a Motorola Razr 50 Ultra, which I got
| because while it's huge when flipped, it's portable enough when
| it's closed. I can have it in my pocket without it falling out..
| without it being annoying while i put on shoes etc...
|
| I use its cover screen a fair amount too, to avoid having to flip
| it open, which is also why I got the ultra rather than the
| slightly smaller version.
| burnt-resistor wrote:
| The iPhone 13 Pro -> 16 Pro upsizing is ridiculous. The 13 was
| just the right size, but now they had to change it so they
| could sell more cases. It's almost phablet-size now. Look at an
| iPhone 6S by comparison.
| FinnKuhn wrote:
| The iPhone 13 pro is 71.5mm x 146.7mm x 7.65mm [1] and the
| iPhone 16 pro is 71.5mm x 149.3mm x 8.25mm [2].
|
| While it did get a tiny bit bigger I wouldn't have noticed
| this u less you would look up the spec, especially as it got
| lighter from 204g [1] to 199g [2] at the same time.
|
| [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/111871 [2]
| https://www.apple.com/iphone-16-pro/specs/
| Analemma_ wrote:
| This is an "unpleasable customer" problem. When the 13 Pro
| was current, everyone was yelling at Apple that it was too
| thin and that they wanted a slightly thicker phone with more
| battery life, which is what Apple did.
| mpweiher wrote:
| I just want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone.
|
| It's OK if they just make one every couple of years. But please:
| at least every couple of years.
| volemo wrote:
| I don't care how often they make it as long as they release a
| new one before discontinuing the previous one. %(
| juancroldan wrote:
| Same, I am a 13 mini user and will probably stay this way until
| there is a realistic alternative. It's obnoxious that there
| isn't a single phone on the market where you can reach the top
| corner with one hand.
| quite-sfwd wrote:
| We happy few will probably stay with them until their last
| breath
| udev4096 wrote:
| I love mini phones too but how naive do you have to be to trust a
| random page over an actual phone manufacturer? I can get a new
| pixel at 500$, install GrapheneOS on it, and call it secure
| enough. I wish google would make mini-pixel versions, same as
| apple does with SE
| jakegmaths wrote:
| I'm writing this on a Unihertz Jelly Star which is tiny, and I
| consider it my "protest phone" at the lack of decent small
| phones.
|
| A friend jokingly calls it my "microphone", another a "prison
| phone" (due to its size allowing for more easily smuggling in
| body cavities). Occasionally I go to mobile phone shops and ask
| if they have a case for it just for the fun of seeing the look on
| their faces when they see it (I don't actually want a case, and
| in fact it came with one which I threw in the bin).
|
| Personally, I couldn't be happier with it.
|
| Only problems: they don't do software updates; camera is poor;
| non-OLED screen.
|
| In an ideal world I'd have a slightly bigger phone, but not too
| much bigger. I've grown very fond of this phone.
| userbinator wrote:
| _non-OLED screen_
|
| I'd consider that an advantage: No burn-in.
| franga2000 wrote:
| Is OLED burn-in really something people still care about? I
| have a handful of OLED devices, some of which I've used daily
| for nearly 10 years, and none of them have any burn-in. I've
| never even seen burn-in on anything other than a signage TV,
| and that happens even on some LCDs.
| diggan wrote:
| > I've never even seen burn-in on anything other than a
| signage TV, and that happens even on some LCDs
|
| AFAIK, the hardware still suffers from that problem, but
| it's been fixed in most devices by software fixes. Instead
| of displaying the exactly same content 24/7, it has
| "cleaning programs" or similar to runs once in a while to
| prevent the burn in from happening. Our OLED TV does the
| same I think too.
| franga2000 wrote:
| Of course, and many devices also use various pixel shift
| techniques. My point is that this isn't really a drawback
| from the user's perspective. Saying "I consider non-OLED
| to be a selling point because it won't burn in" simply
| doesn't make sense anymore.
| philipkglass wrote:
| I know someone who spends so much time with YouTube on
| their phone that the logo is visibly burned in to the
| screen. The phone is less than 2 years old.
| ChrisRR wrote:
| The jelly star has got junk in the trunk though
| helloworlddd wrote:
| What sort of junk?
| anxoo wrote:
| it's about twice as thick as any other typical phone
| sensen wrote:
| The thickness of the phone honestly isn't an issue at all.
| The phone is so small that it remains easily pocketable.
| ethan_smith wrote:
| The Jelly Star's battery life is surprisingly decent for its
| size - I get about 8 hours of moderate use, but it requires a
| mid-day charge if you're using GPS or watching videos.
| normie3000 wrote:
| So, same as iPhone mini :)
| jcgl wrote:
| The lack of updates/general software sketchiness is what has me
| turned off from the Jelly. I know a product like that never has
| a chance in hell of running Graphene, I'd be way more
| interested if it could run Lineage.
| twiclo wrote:
| I run lineage on mine. It's much better than the OS it came
| with.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| There's an unofficial Lineage build, I believe.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| The Jelly Max is 5" (so bigger than previous Jellies, smaller
| than mainstream phones). I'd strongly consider one except for
| their lack of software updates.
| maxglute wrote:
| Market wants big phones. The solution... look to the east. Phone
| accessories to manage big phones. Many women with small hands
| using finger loops (that double as kickstands), wrist straps,
| full body lanyards.
|
| Convincing main brands to dump 100s of millions to cater to small
| phone crowd should be proven DOA by now. The minimalist EDC crowd
| is niche aberration, most people throughout civilization EDC was
| more cumbersome. Most people are simply happy carrying more shit
| around. Look at Stanley cups.
|
| TBH 99% of big phone yucky crowd problems would be solved by a
| lanyard, but that's too goofy in the west. IMO what we need is
| better pockets. Front of legs or side belly of shirt. Have a
| little place to attach a chain like pocket watches. Fix for big
| phones is not a smaller phone, but better accessory/wardrobe.
| raverbashing wrote:
| I disagree, it seems the Eastern phones are gigantic for some
| reason
|
| And yes I do want smaller phones. Samsung S10e was the perfect
| size tbh.
|
| But no it seems the option dwindle and now I can't find a phone
| smaller than my thumb. At least some phones have a "shrink
| screen" option, but that's not the same thing as a smaller
| phone tbh
| maxglute wrote:
| Tiny market =/= no market, but not sustainable market. One
| hand mode + one hand type mode is not the same as small
| phone, but it makes one hand mode on big devices feasible.
| I'm personally waiting for eastern foldable phones to get
| hilariously gigantic so the front cover screen become useful
| "mini" phones.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Some people want a phone where they can use the screen with one
| hand.
| maxglute wrote:
| Phone finger strap + learn one hand mode.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| I just tested one hand mode on my phone and it is all kinds
| of broken. It doesn't allow scrolling certain pages to the
| bottom, so it's useless.
| maxglute wrote:
| You scroll in normal mode. One handed mode let's you
| reach top UI element with an extra gesture which is more
| or less all you need for if you want to operate a phone
| with thumb.
| ragazzina wrote:
| >Most people are simply happy carrying more shit around. Look
| at Stanley cups.
|
| This is only true for the American lifestyle of home-car-
| office-car-home. If you need to walk for more than 30 seconds
| Stanley cups become extremely inconvenient.
| eertami wrote:
| I thought Stanley cups is a weird choice to make "more shit"
| sound wasteful or a bad thing. Typically I think the American
| lifestyle is people carrying fewer things usually. I walk or
| cycle most places but always take a backpack, but I've
| frequently seen American-centric communities dismiss this as
| weird (because the car becomes their backpack).
|
| As plans develop during a day it's easy to end up being out
| of the house 12+ hours, so it's comfortable to have a
| refillable water bottle, warmer layers, sunglasses, hat,
| umbrella, any other comfort things etc.
| deffrin wrote:
| If I have money and the knowledge to build a phone, surely i will
| make it possible one day.
|
| But I don't know why new innovative people are not getting into
| smartphone making.
|
| Everyone is trying to make the next big software. But why that
| grit is missing to bring the variety into small hardware devices
| that target majority?
|
| Or, is it not reaching people like me? Is it the lack of
| awareness?
| ge96 wrote:
| One reason is the modem, proprietary blob
|
| I think another reason is sourcing good parts that aren't old
| and bulky, speaking from the Linux phones I tried
|
| Also drivers somebody has to write em
|
| I used to be annoyed that you had to choose between Android or
| iOS
|
| I wish android phones had lidar
| deffrin wrote:
| yes. that makes sense.
| VoxPelli wrote:
| Check eg. the Mudita Kompakt:
| https://store.mudita.com/store/mudita-kompakt-global
|
| And the Light Phone 3: https://www.thelightphone.com/lightiii
| deffrin wrote:
| both seems to be good options. will try one of these one day.
| renewiltord wrote:
| All this is available on China market. Go buy there. Everyone
| always makes this post when they can just buy Chinese phone. Go
| get a Soyes or something.
| chartered_stack wrote:
| I'm a convert on this topic. I went from wanting a small phone to
| being unable to wait to ditch mine.
|
| Like the OP, I switched from Android (Pixel 3a) to an iPhone SE 3
| specifically for the smaller form factor. After using it for over
| a year, I've found the trade-offs in battery life and camera
| quality are too significant for my daily use.
|
| These limitations aren't an issue when I'm at home or my desk
| with easy access to a charger. However, they become acute the
| moment I'm out for the day. For example, using GPS for navigation
| or connecting Bluetooth accessories becomes a liability. I can't
| rely on the phone to last. Also, photos are noticeably more
| pixelated, and the quality drop-off is clear compared to larger,
| contemporary phones.
|
| This thread is evidence that the niche for small phones exists.
| But it's for people willing to accept these compromises by
| carrying a dedicated camera, a power bank, and using wired
| peripherals. For me and as the market suggests for most
| consumers, small phones just doesn't work out as reliable all-in-
| one devices. I'll probably wait till early next year to pick up
| one of the new iPhones after they iron out the initial kinks.
| Jolter wrote:
| The iPhone SE 3 might have a poor camera, but the one on the
| iPhone mini 13 is excellent!
|
| My conclusion is the same as the author's: it's a matter of you
| get what you pay for. The demand here is for a small _premium_
| phone. This would come with a good set of cameras.
| VoxPelli wrote:
| "the trade-offs in battery life and camera quality are too
| significant" - a small but thicker phone would have no trouble
| with battery life and could for sure have the same good cameras
| as larger phones - and could possibly even ditch the camera
| bump if it just made the entire phone as thick as the camera
| bump to fit a larger battery.
|
| (After all, easiest way to increase battery size is to increase
| the smallest dimension. Add 1mm to a 4-4.5mm thick battery and
| you'll increase the battery size by 22-25%. Make the iPhone 13
| Mini as thick as its camera bump and you would probably add
| [?]2.4mm, which would make the battery 60% larger)
| VoxPelli wrote:
| If one were to make a iPhone 17 Pro Mini as thick as the
| iPhone 4 then it would:
|
| - Likely still weigh less than a Pro Max - Have a battery
| with a capacity larger than the Pro Max - Have the pro
| cameras stick out about as much as they did on the iPhone 6
|
| And it would feel as robust and solid as an iPhone 4 - my
| favorite iPhone so far
| vintagedave wrote:
| > carrying a dedicated camera, a power bank, and using wired
| peripherals
|
| I'm a small-phone person, and I don't think these _should_ be
| necessary. I'm fine with wired peripherals (and prefer them),
| but in 2025, with efficient chips, I don't see why we can't
| power a device much longer than 24 hours. What if it had
| decade-old hardware, and -- this is the bit I think is the
| problem -- the operating system and apps were efficient?
|
| Same with a camera. It seems more about thickness than width; I
| don't believe it should be impossible to put a large-phone-
| format camera in a smaller phone. It may take battery space,
| but see above, we should be ok there these days.
| volemo wrote:
| > but in 2025, with efficient chips, I don't see why we can't
| power a device much longer than 24 hours.
|
| That is only possible if we don't write the software with
| dozen layers of abstraction and gimmicky features (looking at
| you, Liquid Glass!).
| ChrisRR wrote:
| The biggest power drain is still the screen and those haven't
| really improved that much.
| flakeoil wrote:
| Since Pixel 3a and iPhone SE 3, the battery technology has
| improved and especially the charging times have gone down
| dramatically so the battery life experience you had then would
| not occur today with the same form factor.
| asimops wrote:
| Wow, that exploded over night :D It's nice to see, I am not
| alone.
|
| With Android working on including a "desktop mode" where you can
| add a screen and HID devices, I sure hope that the phone screens
| will get smaller again.
| raynr wrote:
| I saw a post on this subject in the android subreddit back in
| 2019 [0] and it was clear that everyone had already accepted by
| then that the market was too small to sustain this. I too loved
| Sony's series of compact phones - the XZ1 Compact is still one of
| the best phones I've ever used.
|
| It is only going to get worse. Most of us who were young adults
| when the iPhone was announced are in our 40s now, and presbyopia
| is a real thing. In a few years my daily QOL will be better
| served by a bigger phone and I suspect many people around my age
| are feeling the same thing. The "small electronic accessory I
| bring around" niche will be filled by smartwatches.
|
| [0]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/dijok5/is_there_a_...
| (how quaint the prices look, a mere 6 years on)
| VoxPelli wrote:
| The Mudita Kompakt (https://store.mudita.com/store/mudita-
| kompakt-global) is a 4.3" e-ink Android based phone that's about
| the size of an iPhone Mini.
|
| It doesn't have the Google Play Store but one can sideload
| Android apps onto it
| NoGravitas wrote:
| My only gripe with the Mudita Kompakt is that one of the
| reasons I need a smartphone is to run those little apps without
| which you cannot navigate the modern world - 2FA, corporate
| proprietary 2FA, parking, bank (my bank lets you deposit checks
| through the app, but not through the website, else I would only
| use the website). And a lot of those require the Play Integrity
| API at some level, unfortunately.
| trumbitta2 wrote:
| Everybody loves a mini phone. Then you hit your 40s or 50s, and
| you suddenly understand the benefits of having a bigger screen.
| trumbitta2 wrote:
| Yeah, thanks for the downvote. You're right. People older than
| 30 shouldn't exist and shouldn't be here commenting.
| phplovesong wrote:
| The iPhone 4S was just this. Small, and had it all. It was the
| best iphone i owned. After this the overall phone size has
| ballooned. Such a shame.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| > $700-800
|
| I can.
|
| Nothing will make happier than ditching Apple and get a smaller
| Android phone. In fact the size of iPhone 5s was the only reason
| that had piqued my interest and I had migrated to the iPhones.
| Then I stayed for other (and important) reasons.
|
| > Stock Android OS
|
| Ah, no. I take that back. That is not going to be worth 700-800
| just for the size! In fact take more and put it to a fight which
| tries to force Google to "decolonise" every aspect of this mobile
| OS and push for apps to go for alternative app stores.
|
| But as long as Google has it claws and fingers and feet and palm
| and teeth (imagine every other organ) into my data (and also
| existence via sensors and what not) on an Android phone in every
| way possible (sometimes not even imaginable), such pervasive and
| entangled, that getting out of this Kafkaesque privacy nightmare
| means using a custom ROM that no OEM supports (or probably will
| every support) and half the app I use (including
| bank/payment/Govt apps) will stop functioning and it makes me
| feel like puking - even the thought of being tracked like that
| non-stop!
|
| Until then sadly I will contribute to the trillions of Apple and
| participate in this cozy duopoly these companies have established
| and rather be in this Kafkaesque control and closed walled
| garden. It is sad.
|
| So no, I am done with "Stock Android OS" trope at this point :(
|
| The reality is - and it is a sad truth - such a phone in today's
| world can only exist as a vanity/niche product and hence even
| with high cost it will suffer from lack of support, abandoned
| update/upgrade promises, and a really really bad support
| experience unless it is released to "just few cities" (not even
| few countries) because this is going to attract such a small
| number of people!
| volemo wrote:
| Doesn't "unlockable bootloader" requirement solve this problem?
| karel-3d wrote:
| There is no "stock android" btw. There is no such thing.
| franga2000 wrote:
| "Stock Android" usually means "what runs on Pixels" in Android
| user circles, not actually AOSP. It's a comparison between
| Samsung/Huawei/Xiaomi/... and Google/OnePlus/Motorola/...
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| "Stock Android" means where Google does inside it what I have
| listed above in less savoury words. The ones you've listed
| are basically compromised devices in your pockets -- so a
| notch higher or lower, depending upon how you look at all
| this :)
| franga2000 wrote:
| Of course, but that's why the bootloader is unlockable. A
| production device will ship with either a close-to-stock
| (== close-to-Pixel) ROM or a heavily customized one. If the
| ROM is closer to stock, it's easier to develop and maintain
| custom ROMs, so it makes sense to want that as opposed to
| the alternative.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| That doesn't really help. If you play around with it, the
| plat integrity test will not pass and there goes too many
| apps -- so that nullifies even MicroG etc as well. I
| haven't played around with microg's #2611 (had seen it on
| github when it was getting implemented) but the point is
| -- it will remain cat and mouse in this manner and that
| is a headache one doesn't want to have on their primary
| device.
| franga2000 wrote:
| I'm well aware, but I'm not sure what the point here is.
|
| The OP was complaining that the author of the page wants
| "stock android". On a production device, you can either
| have 1) the manufacturer's custom version of Androi, 2) a
| near-stock Android, or 3) your own custom version but
| with all the usual issue that brings. There is no secret
| fourth option. So I don't see what the OP's complaint is
| trying to achieve.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| You don't have to see what OP's complaint is trying to
| achieve. Besides you never even indicated trying to see
| OP's point in any of these comments you made.
|
| On those lines I don't get any of the points you are
| trying to make (assuming you are) either. So maybe it's
| an hn thing.
| thorio wrote:
| Since Google is about to brick my Pixel 6a with the battery
| botchering update, i find myself in the same struggle again i had
| when buying the 6a.
|
| Basically you have to make compromises on performance and camera
| and then this was, what i came up with: - Zenfone 10 (flagship
| with prices still above launch price (!), which soon gets no
| updates anymore) - Unihertz Jelly Max (small, but thick and bad
| camera) - Rakuten Hand 5G and Rakuten Mini (also bad camera and
| older Android) - Balmuda Phone (which i really like, but also bad
| camera and discontinued, so probably not even security updates
| and no custom rom support) - Bluefox NX1 (really tempting, but
| appearantly kind of bad build quality and no NFC)
|
| All other options are even older phones. Samsung S25 line does
| exist, but i really like vanilla Android. I think the price chart
| of the Zenfone DOES somehow indicates the existence of a market
| and i wonder if it would be big enough for a small niche player!?
|
| Personally I am considering a pixel 8, which is the "smallest" of
| current phones, but it still really isn't small. And i don't see
| myself as a Google customer because of the battery topic...
|
| I personally would have been more happy had Eric made a small
| android phone instead of the new pebble, but hey...
| mmarian wrote:
| I have the Pixel 8, and I've been happy with the battery and
| pretty much everything. It's got a great performance/price
| ratio.
| twiclo wrote:
| Couldn't you put lineage on the zenfone?
| martin_henk wrote:
| Rakuten hand was/is very small.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| I got a Pixel 8, and it's not small, but it's reasonably sized.
| About the same as the Moto G7 I replaced, much smaller than my
| kid's current Moto G Power. The good thing about the Pixel 8 is
| that you can run LineageOS on it, which was the main thing that
| determined my choice.
| tauntz wrote:
| I switched from a Pixel 3a to an iPhone 16 and it really bothers
| me that it's way too huge for everyday usage. Maybe I have
| extremely short thumbs but here's the maximum reach I have on the
| screen when I hold my phone "normally" in my hand:
| https://i.postimg.cc/Cx97jxLZ/iphone16reach.png - I can't reach
| the upper part of the screen at all, without doing finger-
| gymnastics or using my other hand. I'd love to switch to a phone
| that is 50-60%% of the size of the iPhone 16 but there are
| essentially no (modern) options for this. It's really a bummer :(
| glandium wrote:
| I have both and they're surprisingly essentially the same size.
| Except the iPhone has less bezel and is thicker. I only have
| the iPhone for dev purposes and I actually prefer the Pixel 3a,
| but I'm afraid it might die soon...
|
| Anyways, are you sure you're talking about the iPhone 16?
| coldpie wrote:
| It's clunky and stupid, but if you "swipe down" off the bottom
| of the screen, it will bring the top half down into the
| reachable area. That's the fix they chose, instead of making
| phones that fit in a human's hand.
| karel-3d wrote:
| buy a z flip
| ChrisRR wrote:
| I'd even be happy with a 5.5" phone nowadays but no-one even
| makes them
| ZeljkoS wrote:
| You can actually find small Android phones via excellent GSMArena
| phone finder:
| https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2023&fDisplayI...
|
| Quick search for just display size found these 10 phones released
| after 2023:
| https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2023&fDisplay...
| einpoklum wrote:
| My very lax criteria yield only 4 phones released since 2023:
|
| * A phone, not a watch
|
| * Android 14 or later OS
|
| * Thickness: 9mm max
|
| * Height: 150mm max
|
| * Width: 71mm max
|
| and three of them are the overpriced Samsung Galaxy S phones.
| Only 7 released since 2020:
|
| https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2020&nHeightMa...
|
| and they are Samsung Galaxy S's, a couple of Asus ZenFone's,
| and Google Pixel 5.
|
| If you're willing to add another 5mm, there are also a couple
| of Sony Xperia's and Sharp Aquous, and Google Pixel 8. And if
| you want to cap the height at 145 mm - it's just Google Pixel
| 5.
| Raed667 wrote:
| There are some rugged Android phones with the "mini" format ~5.5"
|
| They can be quite chunky but honestly not too bad
| OldfieldFund wrote:
| I think the main reason is battery.
| sjw987 wrote:
| We are unfortunately a neglected part of the market.
|
| I used to have a Pixel 5. As somebody who uses phones minimally
| (<10 min average screentime per day), but still wants utilities
| beyond a feature phone for special use cases (maps, translate,
| digital tickets, public transport, NFC payments), it was about as
| small as I needed it to be to tuck it away in my pocket for the
| whole day. It was also quite a nice form factor with a black
| stone-like back case, which didn't seem to scuff or attract
| fingerprints.
|
| I had two of them. The first one lasted 2 years before the
| battery swelled up and I had to dispose of it. Google replaced it
| for free with another. Then eventually Google Pay stopped being
| supported on the second, since it was a few years beyond security
| updates.
|
| After that I found no alternative within the Android ecosystem. I
| don't want to get into Apple products (despite minimal use, I did
| have the phone customised so that it was stripped bare in terms
| of apps and notifications, and had a launcher which I preferred
| over Google's native design), and every tech blog talking about
| small phones led back to Pixel 5, or one of the ones just after
| which was also out of sale and security coverage.
|
| Even though they are sold at profit, I get the feeling phones are
| viewed by the industry as vehicles. Get one with a big screen
| into peoples hands, then keep riding on the payments for games,
| movies, TV and web browsing that follows that. As somebody who
| never used my phone for any of these things, I'm clearly not
| important to the market for the one-off payment of a new phone
| every 5/6 years.
| VagabundoP wrote:
| I'm using a google pixel 5 with google pay right now.
| sjw987 wrote:
| Just a heads up, when I contacted Google Support about this,
| they insinuated that this is something slowly being rolled
| out across Pixel 5 devices, so while it may work now, it
| could stop at any moment.
|
| The issue I received when tapping to pay was "Your phone
| doesn't meet software standards". It did mention it can be
| due to rooting (my phone wasn't rooted) or "uncertified
| software" (of which I didn't have any).
|
| I'm sure you might already do so, but I'd advise not to rely
| on the phone to pay going forward. For me, I was caught off
| guard in a shop without any other payment method. There was
| no warning or notification about the change until I tapped to
| pay at the card terminal.
|
| I tried a few more times afterwards with another payment
| method as backup, and it never worked again, even after
| rebooting, toggling NFC off and on. I never received an
| email, notification or warning in the app itself. It was
| quite disappointing as I reckon I could have run that phone
| for a few more years as a minimal phone.
|
| Google did offer me about PS100 off of a new Pixel. So if
| this happens to you and the lack of Google Pay is a
| dealbreaker, I'd give that a try.
| jmlim00 wrote:
| Terrifying. I opened this thread to leave the same comment
| that Google pay is working for me on my pixel 5. I bought
| it second handed and replaced battery so I didn't spend too
| much money on it, but it would be a real shame when that
| rollout reaches me. Especially because I also quite enjoy
| the size and functionality. It's enough for everything I
| need to do on a phone..
| sjw987 wrote:
| Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
|
| In hindsight, I really miss using the Pixel 5 and semi-
| wish that I'd kept using it and just switched Google
| Pay/Wallet for card. The form factor and size was
| perfect.
|
| I changed to a Pixel 9 because I had an opportunity
| around the same time to get it cheaper, and thought I may
| as well go to the latest model to keep security updates
| up to 2030. Even after a few months, I can't get used to
| the weight, size, the back case design (slippery glass
| and fingerprint magnet), and sticking out camera block. I
| still use the phone minimally, but now I carry around a
| brick everyday.
| jmlim00 wrote:
| Yeah, I'll hold on to it until I lose the pay as well. I
| was looking at either pixel 8a or 9a for my next phone.
| Like you said with pixel 9, I assume it would be a big
| leap with both of these phones. But at least with 9a I
| won't have the camera bump problem so that's hopeful.
| amelius wrote:
| Maybe buy a flip-phone?
|
| By the way, Apple is horribly behind in this area. It is time for
| them to realize that not everybody wants the same form factor.
| And people are getting bored by Apple's run-of-the-mill designs.
| Aissen wrote:
| We see those posts regularly about people wanting a flagship
| small phone, but I see two options:
|
| - either the market is dysfunctional, and the niche of people
| wanting those devices does not meet the smartphone offer.
|
| - or the market is even smaller than what they think, making it
| unsustainable.
|
| Both can be solved with time and patience (waiting for this to
| happen as conditions change) -- or by voting with your wallet and
| making this requirement have priority over others (security,
| updates, quality, performance, compatibility, etc.).
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Samsung's S-series (without plus or ultra or edge or whatever) is
| basically this. Not quite as small as an iPhone mini, but just
| about small enough to be ok for me. Shouldn't be any bigger
| though (especially not wider!). For me the width is the big issue
| with big phones. It just feels uncomfortable in the hand then.
| betimsl wrote:
| Dream phone: Underclocked Samsung25 internals, iPhone SE
| design/dimensions, at least 90hz OLED panel, 1 back decent
| camera, 1 front too. 3A battery. Preferably an extenal SD card
| slot.
| theothertimcook wrote:
| https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-nx1-4-0-android-smartpho...
|
| https://www.unihertz.com/collections/jelly-series
|
| https://soyes.vip/en
|
| https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-servo-mobile-phones.h...
|
| They're all kinda ass though
| Retr0id wrote:
| > Cameras must be as good as Pixel 5
|
| > must have great low light performance
|
| You'll probably have to compromise here a little too. Having
| "good" smartphone cameras is more about the software than the
| hardware (there's only so much you can do with small apertures
| and small sensors), and the flagships have huge R&D investments
| behind them.
|
| I too want a small phone, and I'd be willing to settle for
| "passable" camera quality.
| righthand wrote:
| Forget Apple sizes, I want a 3-4 inch sqaure (4:3) phone.
| Preferrably with a keyboard that folds or slides out. Something I
| can use with one hand or two and not have to switch to two hands
| to tap an upper corner.
| Piraty wrote:
| htc HD mini was the perfect form factor
| Marciplan wrote:
| "My goal here is to rally other fans of small phones together and
| put pressure on Google/Samsung/anyone to consider making a small
| phone." 41k people is impressive, but that doesn't move the
| needle for any of these companies by a long long shot
| VagabundoP wrote:
| Small phone person here. I tried the Sony Compacts and it was a
| good phone but very fragile. Smashed quite quickly.
|
| Moved to a Pixel 2 and then to a Pixel 5. I'm happy with the 5,
| good size and good features, fast enough for what I want and
| battery is okay.
| desdenova wrote:
| This is almost describing the ASUS Zenfone 9 (except for some
| reason they wanted only 8GB RAM, while the zen 9 has 16).
|
| The small size and clean stock Android were the main reasons I
| bought this, and it's still a great phone.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a
| device, because when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people
| still choose the normal-size device with better
| screen/battery/camera.
|
| This is equivalent to something I called the "QWERTY paradox"
| more than a decade ago:
|
| Back when the Smartphone market exploded, people disliked typing
| on a touchscreen and repeatedly stated that they want a device
| with a physical keyboard.
|
| There was plenty of evidence, surveys, market studies, trend
| predictions, devices for these "Messaging-centric" use-cases were
| always part of this market-demand roster.
|
| But whenever someone answered the call and built a Smartphone
| with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed commercially, simply
| because also to people claiming they want such a phone, at the
| point of sale they were less attractive than their slimmer,
| lighter, all-screen counterparts.
|
| Every major vendor went through this cycle of learning that
| lesson, usually with an iteration like "it needs to be a premium
| high-spec device" --> (didn't sell) --> "ah, it should be mass-
| market" --> (also didn't sell).
|
| You can find this journey for every vendor. Samsung, LG, HTC,
| Motorola, Sony.
|
| The same lessons were already learnt for small-screen devices:
| There was a "Mini" series of Samsung Galaxy, LG G-series, HTC
| One, Sony Xperia. It didn't sell, the numbers showed that it
| didn't attract _additional_ customers, at best it only fragmented
| the existing customer-base.
|
| Source: I work in that industry for a long time now
| GRiMe2D wrote:
| Every time I see messages and posts like this, I hope that big
| companies were being dissatisfied with the product factory
| scaling issue and device sell effectiveness.
|
| I hope that small companies would launch device like this with
| 500-1000 devices being created and sold in a year just fulfill
| the niche and doesn't go bankrupt
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I don't think you could manufacture a small run like that
| without the price being extremely high.
|
| Say you charge $1,000 per device. That means you need to
| build an entire company, pay staff, and prototype then
| manufacture a custom hardware device with customized software
| with less than a million dollars. Costs add up real fast.
| alabhyajindal wrote:
| Why does the cost need to be so high? Chinese markets have
| many small phone options like Soyes and Servo that cost
| less than $100. Unfortunately, these devices are
| potentially loaded with malware.
|
| Can a similar device without malware not be made in small
| batches? At a selling price of $500 or less?
| coldpie wrote:
| I actually had a brief email conversation with the folks
| running the project in the OP. Basically they said they
| can't get a reasonable-quality screen in that size. No
| one makes it. They would have to spin up a whole new
| manufacturing line for a quality, small screen and the
| cost on that is insane. The screens on the small phones
| you're talking about are very low quality.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I'm pretty sure a manufacturer can cobble something
| together from existing parts or even white label a phone
| for you.
|
| The end result will be a $100 quality phone.
| neogodless wrote:
| It was ginormous, but I loved my Dell Venue Pro!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Venue_Pro
| cubefox wrote:
| > 4.1-inch (diagonal) widescreen
| neogodless wrote:
| Ha yeah it isn't a big screen by today's standards. But it
| was basically a full candy-bar slab (with a curved screen)
| plus a sliding keyboard body, making it particularly thick
| / chunk.
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2012/3/28/2909815/dell-retires-
| venu...
|
| > 192.78 g
|
| Kind of funny, I would've thought it was heavier, but that
| is less than an S25 Ultra in weight... I think that also
| speaks to how large screens have gotten!
| oreilles wrote:
| Even if was a small % of the Apple lineup, the iPhone mini was
| one the best selling smartphones all brands considered. I for
| one switched to iPhone in 2020 specifically because there
| wasn't a single current-gen small form-factor Android phone
| anymore. I have a few friend that also made the switch with the
| 12 / 13 Mini for that reason.
|
| The real reason the iPhone mini failed is not related to screen
| size, it's because its segment was canibalized by the cheaper
| alternative, the SE. The 2020 and 2022 sold like hot breads,
| wherehas their screen was almost an inch smaller than the
| iPhone mini. This is the proof that there a significant market
| for people who don't care about size and would gladly take the
| smallest option at a $100 discount from the regular one.
| mock-possum wrote:
| This is the case for me precisely - I've been dismayed at the
| "phablet" sizing trend, and leapt at the opportunity to keep
| my iPhone reasonably-sized - I'm on my second SE now and I'm
| kind of dreading what will happen when I need to eventually
| replace it.
|
| I just want something small that will fit comfortably in my
| pocket, and I can use with one hand.
| kasey_junk wrote:
| I owned 2 minis and would just replace screens and
| batteries whenever one got bad. Keep one in a drawer, take
| the broken one to the shop, rinse repeat.
|
| I did this for years because I liked the form factor so
| much.
|
| My new buying criteria for my iPhone is simply "buy the
| smallest one offered".
|
| But I'm willing to accept I'm not a big enough market
| segment to move the market.
| Ntrails wrote:
| The SE is a great phone, and a reasonable size. I will say
| ever more websites are starting to screwup their layouts on
| such "small" as indeed is iOS. Tiresome as hell
| coldpie wrote:
| > Even if was a small % of the Apple lineup, the iPhone mini
| was one the best selling smartphones all brands considered
|
| Correct. To back this up a little bit with numbers, the
| iPhone 13 Mini all by itself sold about the half of the rate
| of the entire Google Pixel lineup. I bet lots of phone
| manufacturers would _love_ to have half the sales of Google
| 's premier Android phone. I also switched from Android to
| iPhone solely because of the 13 Mini form factor (I prefer
| Android, but I prefer a human-hand-sized phone even more).
|
| Source:
|
| Google shipped about 10 million Pixel phones in a year
| https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/
|
| iPhone Mini accounted for about 3% of iPhone sales
| https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-
| selling-l...
|
| iPhones sell about 200 million units per year
| https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/
|
| 200 million * 0.03 = 6 million iPhone Minis per year
| al_borland wrote:
| I think the "mini" name hurt it too. People thought it would
| be small, when the screen was in fact bigger than the screen
| on the 6/7/8 iPhones. It was a similar form factor without
| the forehead and chin.
|
| The mini could have been simply, iPhone. The marketing would
| have been that they managed to add an extra .7" of screen,
| while reducing the overall size and weight. That's a great
| pitch. Who doesn't want a bigger screen in something that
| more easily fits in their pocket? Instead they called in a
| "mini", people thought it would be tiny and hard to use, so
| they didn't buy it.
|
| The iPhone 12 mini screen was only .1" smaller than the
| screen on the iPhone 8 Plus... the giant option from just a
| few years earlier.
|
| The mini was a marketing and brand strategy failure, plain
| and simple. It wasn't a small phone.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Exactly. I had already bought the SE by the time the mini
| came out. I still bought a Mini anyway, it's that good. But I
| imagine most people didn't.
| cubefox wrote:
| Exactly. Stated and revealed preferences are sometimes very
| different. Interestingly, preferences can also change slowly
| over time. For example, the Dell Streak in 2010 had a 5 inch
| screen size, which was considered ridiculously large at the
| time (people called it a "phablet"), and it didn't catch on
| initially. But years later, average phones did actually reach
| and even exceed that size. Nowadays the Dell seems relatively
| small.
| DrewADesign wrote:
| > Smartphone with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed
| commercially
|
| Well, there was BlackBerry. Multiple phone vendors assuming
| they could refresh a previously world-dominating form factor
| with contemporary smartphone guts only seems unreasonable in
| hindsight.
| mtmail wrote:
| When asking people if they'd buy a yellow Sony Walkman people
| said yes. Shortly after given the choice to take one home the
| same people picked black. https://medium.com/@diogomarta/the-
| yellow-walkman-paradox-th...
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| A bunny walks into a bakery. There he asks the baker if he
| has any carrot cake.
|
| The bakers says: _'No, I don't sell carrot cake.'_
|
| So the bunny leaves, but returns the next day. He once again
| asks if the baker has any carrot cake.
|
| Once more the baker answers: _'No, I don't sell carrot
| cake.'_
|
| Once the bunny left, the baker started making a carrot cake
| thinking the bunny would return the next day for the cake.
| And so the bunny did, and he asks: _'Do you have carrot
| cake?'_
|
| To which the bakers answers: _'Yes, today I DO sell carrot
| cake.'_
|
| So the Bunny says: _'YUCK, isn 't it disgusting, why do
| people sell these things?!'_
| metabagel wrote:
| Should be "A bunny hops into a bakery." ;-)
| geodel wrote:
| Hilarious and true.
| wmf wrote:
| I love carrot cake but I don't understand this joke at all.
| MilanTodorovic wrote:
| It seems that Medium article is ripping off this one
| https://www.alexandercowan.com/yellow-walkman-data-art-of-
| cu...
| ikari_pl wrote:
| Well, that's a lesson on _asking the right question_. You
| like the new yellow one, but you like the black one even
| more. Nobody asked about black.
| RussianCow wrote:
| It's simpler than that. People often don't know what they
| want until they're actually presented with the buying
| decision. Economists call this stated vs revealed
| preferences and it's a well documented and understood
| phenomena.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| They don't like the black one more. The yellow one caught
| their attention, but when it comes to the actual buying-
| decision, they find that drawing attention is not a feature
| they want.
|
| But the existence of the yellow one helped sell the black
| one.
|
| That's a typical issue for car sales by the way.
| einpoklum wrote:
| > the numbers showed that it didn't attract additional
| customers, at best it only fragmented the existing customer-
| base.
|
| So, it did sell, but at the expense of larger phones. Which
| means we are not offered this because it's a bit more
| profitable for the smartphone makers to only offer larger
| phones. Extremely annoying.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| It cost more but didn't create more sales. It's like creating
| a car with an additional wheelbase.
|
| What should be much more annoying is this: There is roughly
| half of the entire Smartphone ecosystem systematically
| isolated from free market-forces by a single brand, with the
| other half isolated by an OS. So even if a company would come
| along with a compelling compact phone, if it cannot instantly
| replace everything Apple offers, that company can only
| address HALF of its potential market, and ONLY if it's based
| on Android then.
| amluto wrote:
| > when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose
| the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera.
|
| My theory is that much of this effect is an error, or at least
| a far-less-than-ideal effort, on the part of the designers. _Of
| course_ it's hard to sell a low-end "mini" device with a worse
| camera, worse battery life, etc. But that's not actually what
| I, or many people I discuss this with, want. I would happily
| buy a premium device that is short and narrow, and possibly
| even thicker as a tradeoff. There's plenty of unexplored room
| in the design space here. For example: start with an iPhone Pro
| or whatever the Android equivalent du jour is. Keep the camera
| unchanged. Shrink the display but keep the same quality (at
| least equal pixel density). Now puff out the back so that the
| camera lenses are flat or even slightly recessed. Use the
| resulting added volume to compensate for the decrease in volume
| due to decreasing the other dimensions. Market the think as a
| Whatever Phone Pro Compact, and advertise clearly that the
| battery life is every bit as good as the non-Compact model
| version. Show off cool pictures models sticking this thing in
| their cool jeans pockets without them sticking out. Charge _the
| same price_ as the ordinary Pro model.
|
| As far as I know, no one has tried anything like this in recent
| memory. The iPhone 12 and 13 Mini were always marketed as the
| cheaper versions, and the cute little old SE model was very
| much a low-end version. Last I checked, there was no 5G Android
| device with similar dimensions from any manufacturer.
| nextos wrote:
| Unihertz sells some decent Android phones that have 3 and 5
| inch displays, respectively: https://www.unihertz.com
|
| AFAIK, these are similar to the iPhone SE? The SE form factor
| was great in terms of size and thickness. Easy to use with
| one hand. I miss that.
| sensen wrote:
| The Jelly Max looks really tempting, but I'm a little
| apprehensive after running the Jelly Star for a while and
| dealing with constant dropped calls and bad call quality
| all around.
| Knork-and-Fife wrote:
| I'm in a similar boat. I really (really!) wanted to love
| the jelly star (when I used it for almost a month), but
| on Verizon I didn't have an LTE signal most of the time
| in the Seattle area, including downtown, which I find
| unreasonable. Also the battery life was horrible, 20% per
| hour of active use and 4% per hour of standby.
|
| Using the jelly star proved that using a small screen is
| not a problem for me and I would gladly pay money for an
| experience like that.
|
| But it also proved that it is not an acceptable option in
| terms of quality. Hopefully the Jelly Max is better in
| these regards.
|
| I think Jelly Max the ideal size for me too (jelly star
| was a little too small for doing driving navigation).
| I'll keep an ear out
| gsa wrote:
| Unihertz devices fill a gap but are subpar phones in terms
| of hardware. They also don't get any software updates the
| minute after they are launched.
| seanssel wrote:
| I would be all over the Unihertz stuff if that wasn't the
| case. I see people talking about Lineage working, but I
| haven't looked into it.
|
| My ideal phone is something small and rugged with
| physical keys that supports Android Auto for navigation
| and a few other basic apps I need (Bitwarden basically).
| selectodude wrote:
| Your phone basically exists from Unihertz. You just
| refuse to buy it. Which, well...
| seanssel wrote:
| I'm not completely against it yet, especially if it looks
| like I can use something like Lineage.
|
| Software aside, I've heard mixed things about the
| keyboard on the Titan. Keeping an open mind though, I
| would like to support companies filling this niche.
| lbrito wrote:
| >They also don't get any software updates the minute
| after they are launched.
|
| If you install Lineage or something, isn't that
| essentially a non-issue?
|
| Otherwise those seem great! Never heard of them.
| onli wrote:
| No official LineageOS support according to
| https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/. And no, missing
| vendor support is still an issue even with Lineage
| support, as soon as firmware (and sometimes driver)
| updates are needed.
| Topfi wrote:
| > The iPhone 12 and 13 Mini were always marketed as the
| cheaper versions [...]
|
| No, they were not. They were literally a scaled down version
| of their respective regular sized counterparts, the 13 Mini
| had the same cameras, SOC, memory, screen quality and storage
| options as the regular 13 [0], yet its sales success (or lack
| thereof [1]) was enough to instantly cure me of any
| previously held notions that there is a sufficiently large
| group of buyers for these devices out there.
|
| It isn't because the specs are inferior, the cameras are
| changed, the display has a lower pixel density (the Mini
| actually had slightly higher ppi) or anything else. There
| simply is no sufficient market, the 13 Mini was the worst
| selling phone in that generation by a frankly impressive
| margin. 38% for iPhone 13 vs 3% for iPhone 13 mini, despite
| them being as close to just being scaled down and otherwise
| identical as one can make a phone speaks a very clear
| language that any manufacturer wanting to succeed has hear
| loud and clear. Most certainly why Asus has seized with their
| more compact smartphones. The amount of people I know that
| praised Asus for making a more compact flagship with a very
| large battery [2] was not in any way proportional to their
| sales. In this case, the battery life was actually superior
| to many larger competitors. Same for my Xperia 5 V, the
| compact phone I bought and used at the time, cause I walk my
| talk and have been following phone releases to a sufficient
| degree that I can assure everyone, there have been and are
| flagship speced, compact phones with good battery life, that
| no one ever buys. I'd love more options in the market, heck,
| I use both the Xperia 5 and an iPhone 15 Pro Max in a Clicks
| case, either for different situations, so am on both sides as
| a consumer. Simply, the lack of any actual market demand
| beyond online comments makes that impossible, we need to be
| honest here.
|
| [0] https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13/specs/
|
| [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-
| unpopula...
|
| [2] https://www.asus.com/mobile-
| handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenfone...
| nordsieck wrote:
| For a while, I was optimistic that Apple would at least
| continue to release the SE every 3-ish years. I'm guessing
| they wanted to finally kill the fingerprint reader and
| other SE-specific features[1]. And maybe even the SE with
| its reduced price didn't sell that well.
|
| ---
|
| 1. Yes, I understand that these features were present in
| other phones, but the SE was the last phone actively sold
| by Apple that had them
| dmonitor wrote:
| The SE has always seemed, to me, a way to repurpose older
| iPhone components into a more modern shell, which is why
| the SE line has been replace by the 16e. 16e uses iPhone
| 13 dimensions.
| callalex wrote:
| Expanding on this, it's specifically to reuse older
| tooling in a factory that's not in China like their
| mainline products.
| r00fus wrote:
| The 12 mini and 13 mini had very substandard batteries
| compared to the mainline version or the SE.
|
| There are a lot of people who probably would've bought the
| mini but instead of opted for the SE because battery life
| degraded so quickly.
| Reason077 wrote:
| It wasn't that the batteries were "substandard". I'm sure
| they were the same technology and quality as the standard
| iPhone 12 and 13 batteries. It's just that they were
| compressing the _same_ hardware into a smaller form
| factor and, therefore, a smaller battery.
|
| The only thing that used less power on the mini was the
| smaller screen, but that doesn't save enough power to
| make up for a physically smaller battery.
| biker142541 wrote:
| As a 12 mini user daily since it came out in 2020, I've
| only just now started to hit any noticeable battery dip
| (~85% after almost 5 years usage). It's still pretty
| solid on a daily basis. On very rare occasions, the
| smaller battery has required charging before evening due
| to excessive photos taken and/or nav without a plug.
| FWIW, I will probably replace the battery by end of year,
| or next, and keep it going as long as I can... I refuse
| the massive "normal" phone size.
| amluto wrote:
| You're right but you're kind of missing my point. The
| iPhone 13 Mini started at $699. The normal iPhone 13
| started at $799. The Pro started at $999. People were
| largely not looking at detailed specs -- the Mini was
| obviously the smaller, cheaper version for if you couldn't
| afford the standard model, and if you wanted the
| dramatically better camera, you would pay $999.
|
| Per my suggestion, Apple should have scrapped the 13 Mini
| completely and instead offered a 13 Pro Compact for $999.
| Or maybe even $1049 if it had a bigger battery than the
| standard Pro model. The profit would have been _much_
| higher per unit than the 13 Mini, and I imagine they might
| have sold more units as well.
|
| I'm typing this on a 13 Mini, and I would have paid an
| extra $400 for a better camera and more battery life.
| Before I had this phone, I bought a 15 Pro, used it for a
| week, and returned it because it was uncomfortably large.
| Topfi wrote:
| As per my source, the iPhone 13 outsold both the Pro and
| Pro Max together, so no the cameras could not have been
| the reason:
|
| > Combined, all four iPhone 13 models made up 71 percent
| of iPhone sales, with the standard 6.1-inch iPhone 13
| responsible for 38 percent of sales. The iPhone 13 Pro
| and Pro Max weren't quite as popular as the iPhone 13,
| but sold much better than the iPhone 13 mini.
|
| In fact, the iPhone 13 alone sold more (38%) than the
| iPhone 13 Pro and iPhone 13 Pro Max combined (30%). The
| plain old 13 was the most popular SKU, because no, most
| people do in fact not spend more for an added telephoto
| camera only a specific few have a true need for. The
| regular non Pro iPhone has across most years been the
| best seller, because it is a solid middle ground for the
| vast majority of people, making it the best basis for a
| small SKU to have any hope of succeeding. A 13 Pro
| Compact would have absolutely sold as poorly, maybe even
| worse than the 13 mini, considering both Pros did not
| outsell the regular 13 by itself. But even if a 13 Pro
| Compact had sold twice as well as the 13 mini (a very
| generous assumption considering it would have been 300usd
| more expensive), that would still be only 6% of total
| sales, a drop in the bucket.
|
| Lastly, there are the Xperia 5s and there have been the
| Zenfones, both having better battery life than their
| large competitors, both being as (un)popular as Apples
| efforts.
|
| Again, I like small smartphones, I'd love there to be a
| significant market for them. There simply is no way to
| look at the data and claim there is one beyond a tiny
| niche that a company such as Apple cannot realistically
| serve.
|
| Apple tried converting their most successful SKU into a
| small smartphone. That failed to sell even a tenth of its
| large brother, despite being 100usd cheaper.
|
| Sony literally scales their flagship down and gives it
| better battery life. Not really a success either.
|
| ASUS made their own, fully dedicated line of compact
| smartphones which again, had better battery life than
| most large competitors and even included a 3.5mm jack,
| getting a second niche of customers to bolster sales.
| They too saw so few sales that they were forced to pivot
| to gigantic phones.
|
| No matter what conditions, no matter how favorable, the
| same result.
| abirch wrote:
| My wife would have paid more as well. She still has her
| 13 because it's the smallest available smartphone.
| Unfortunately the new flip phones are a bit too thick for
| now.
| raydev wrote:
| > much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-
| than-ideal effort
|
| No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video
| viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have
| family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs,
| all media is consumed through their phone, and for most
| kids/teens across the world it is their primary video
| consumption device.
|
| The average person is trying to maximize screen size relative
| to portability. And the market is _everyone on earth_. That
| 's it.
| aziaziazi wrote:
| There's a bias here: video consumption is continuous,
| somewhat long and eye catching (both the movement on the
| screen and the focussed-starring position a la "look at the
| sky!"). Therefore we're more encline to notice video
| consumption than other usages like music, navigation or
| notifications check.
|
| Don't take me wrong: I do agree that "the vast majority of
| people use their phones as video viewers", but the
| duration/day is not uniform and many don't want/need to
| carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a
| tiktok on the messaging group.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| > Therefore we're more encline to notice video
| consumption than other usages [..]
|
| That's not relevant, as this is then forming our decision
| at the point-of-sale towards a media consumption device.
|
| > many don't want/need to carry a half-tablet all day
| long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging
| group.
|
| Only while no media is consumed. Many people take less
| than one photo a day on average, but still the camera
| quality is a dominant decision-factor.
|
| I'd even argue that the majority of price-premium paid by
| a customer today is for camera and display. Those will be
| the factors at the point of sale to decide whether to pay
| 50-100 USD more or not...
| ujkiolp wrote:
| ur point is invalid. the market doesnt have this small
| device because of not enough demand. simple as that
| lowwave wrote:
| >No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video
| viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have
| family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs,
| all media is consumed through their phone, and for most
| kids/teens across the world it is their primary video
| consumption device.
|
| That is one thing that is more disgusting about using a
| smart phone now days. When iPhone first came out it is
| about a music player and phone with extra features to
| facilitate real life things.
|
| I don't want a freaking small computer in my pocket, and
| looking at small screens for long period of time is just
| NOT good for our eyes or postural.
|
| We need to start treat these small devices as something we
| interact with very occasionally to facilitate real life
| interaction, not get our face stuck to it.
|
| Not that working on laptop or workstation is much better,
| but it is better than writing on and viewing a video on
| small screen.
| leptons wrote:
| Maybe you haven't heard, but Samsung has been making folding
| phones that fold up to be very small. The Galazy Flip 7 is
| pretty much what you describe as far as easily being able to
| fit in a pants pocket, has plenty of battery life, high-res
| screen, and it even flips out to have a large screen. No,
| folding phones are not a gimmick, been using a fold 4 for a
| few years and it's been amazing.
|
| https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-
| flip7/buy/ga...
| littlestymaar wrote:
| > The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a
| device, because when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people
| still choose the normal-size device with better
| screen/battery/camera.
|
| This kind of over-generalization is always annoying me deeply.
|
| Of course there IS a market for such a product, because at the
| very least I exist (as well as a good fraction of the 320 other
| people from HN who upvoted this submission so far).
|
| The problem is that this market is tiny, and even a smaller
| share of this market is willing to make massive concessions on
| other aspects of the phone to have a smaller phone, so you end
| up with a much harder design space (because size is a big
| engineering constraint) for a minority market, and the endeavor
| is often not profitable enough for that reason.
|
| It doesn't mean there's no market, it just means addressing
| this particular market is a tough business, these two
| statements aren't equivalent.
| MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
| > The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a
| device
|
| Show me the tiny Android flagship from the past 5 years that
| didn't sell well. (You can't, because there wasn't one.)
| neogodless wrote:
| https://www.androidauthority.com/asus-
| zenfone-10-review-3334...
|
| According to this article
|
| > The ASUS Zenfone 10 is a _compact flagship_ Android phone
| from ASUS. Sporting a little 5.9-inch display
|
| Though you have to argue it's not _tiny_. (Don 't think it
| sold all that well, though, at least not mainstream.)
| MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
| It's not tiny, and it's also _ASUS_. They are relatively
| niche to begin with.
|
| If we're counting 5.9" we might as well count the Galaxy S
| series at 6.1". (My choice of phone, incidentally.)
| Knork-and-Fife wrote:
| i was waiting to buy one until they fulfilled their promise
| of allowing unlocking the bootloader, which they never
| did...
| procaryote wrote:
| Great phone though. Headphone jack. Great battery life.
| Fingerprint sensor. Minimal bloatware
| rickdeckard wrote:
| > Show me the tiny Android flagship from the past 5 years
| that didn't sell well. (You can't, because there wasn't one.)
|
| Yeah, because in the 5 years _before_ that, the much MUCH
| more diverse Smartphone industry tried to make it work for
| several YEARS and failed.
|
| Of all companies, Sony had the longest stamina, releasing 5
| generations of 'compact' flagship devices.
|
| If there would have been a sufficiently sized market for
| that, they would have continued and grown. In reality their
| business decreased every year.
|
| Today the Smartphone is dominantly a media-consumption
| device, the only viable answer to "tiny Android flagship" is
| now a foldable like the Galaxy Flip.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Unihertz is currently serving both the slim size and the QWERTY
| niche, with a QWERTY Kickstarter running right now. Their
| hardware actually seems quite appreciated, but they don't seem
| to care much for software updates.
|
| Currently, foldable smartphones (the flip phone ones) seem to
| be the fashionable alternative to small phones, but they're
| even more expensive than the huge ones.
| no_wizard wrote:
| This here in is one of the major differences between Apple[0]
| and the rest. I imagine they had similar data at various
| points, and chose to deliberately ignore it. I can't say for
| sure but I imagine they thought through the actual end user and
| experience and realized the tradeoff is more than worth it
|
| [0]: when Steve Jobs still ran the company at least
| ryandrake wrote:
| The "mini" versions of phones (even the ones marketed as
| premium) always seem to be nerfed in other ways, like battery
| life, camera quality, or performance, which could explain why
| they inevitably don't sell. Nobody really offers a balls-out
| premium small form factor phone _that is better than or equal
| to the flagship big-phone_.
| XorNot wrote:
| But that's just physics. With a larger area, you can be
| thinner while still having more of all those things -
| dominated by battery volume dictating most of them.
| fckgw wrote:
| That was the iPhone Mini! Same internal specs as the regular
| iPhone, smaller package, roughly same battery life. And it's
| gone because no one wanted it.
| happymellon wrote:
| It was selling at about 6 million a year.
|
| I had one and loved it.
| throw10920 wrote:
| I've seen this pattern before, with laptops ("I want a laptop
| with" _specific spec+feature combo not in the market_ ) and
| cars ("I just want an electric car with physical controls and
| no subscription services or extra electronics") immediately
| coming to mind.
|
| Which is a shame, because I can sympathize with most of these
| requests.
|
| I want something like Kick-starter which operates the same way
| but isn't meant for funding the creator to get the upfront
| capital investment - just avoiding existing companies getting
| burned out of the "let's listen to a niche slice of our
| customers instead of appealing to the masses" mindset.
| Companies put up a weird product proposal and see if enough
| people will commit to buying it to at least break even.
|
| Then, if there's enough of a commitment, those people get
| something they actually want. If there's not enough, then
| there's a specific reason that you can point to to explain why.
|
| This is almost equivalent to the normal market model (people
| buy things they want, and niche products don't get made much),
| except with a more explicit feedback step, to help people
| realize that if they don't actually put their money where their
| mouth is, then things won't get made.
|
| There's probably a better way to do this, but I'm not sure how.
| Ultimately I just want my non-electronic electric car.
| fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
| Soon to be added to that list, the army of Redditors that
| insist the Slate truck is the ideal vehicle for them.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| People report struggling to buy a Ford Maverick. Shadowy
| organizations can't stand it that Americans demand Kei
| Trucks and get legislation so they can't get them.
| Increasingly I see rural people driving compact cars...
| Maybe they'd like a big-ass truck but they can't afford one
| at $90k.
| fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
| The Ford Maverick starts at like $2k more than the Slate
| truck.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| ... and that's very little compared to most alternatives
| on the market.
| fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
| Yeah, mainly I mean I don't get the hype over it. At $28k
| with no EV tax credit it makes no sense to me. Just get a
| Maverick, it's actually got features.
|
| My original point was that I expect a big difference in
| people's stated vs observed preference on this one.
|
| Maybe if it was priced like a Nissan Versa.
| dehrmann wrote:
| Not having power windows or a radio with Android Auto/Apple
| Carplay was a mistake. It would have added $1,500 to the
| price, but those features are big quality-of-life
| improvements.
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| I don't see how this would be different from Kickstarter.
| This is what Kickstarter is for.
| robertoandred wrote:
| Who decides what a normal-sized device is?
| toast0 wrote:
| Screen manufacturers, based on orders from the big buyers.
| They set up their machines to build panels and cut them to
| size, minimizing wasted area. If you want one of the sizes
| built in volume, great; if not, it's very difficult.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| There's a nice anecdote from ~2019:
|
| Within one year, the screen size of nearly all mass-market
| smartphones took a huge bump from 5.x" to 6.5", because of
| two ODMs (device manufacturers who are contracted by big
| brands to design and produce smartphones). Those two ODMs
| won contracts to produce mass-market devices for the brands
| Lenovo/Motorola, Huawei and Xiaomi based on a 6.5" 720p
| LCD.
|
| The total volume forecast was so big, that suddenly 6.5"
| displays were cheaper than any other 720p smartphone panel.
| Other Smartphone brands adjusted mid-development because
| the larger panel also made the PCBs and batteries cheaper.
| In that year, mass-market devices with 1080p displays were
| often smaller (which was contradictory for a vendor-
| portfolio until then) because there was no such economics
| of scale on higher-resolution panels.
|
| So within a single year, displays got a full inch larger,
| not because the consumer demanded it but because of supply-
| chain dynamics.
| herval wrote:
| spot on.
|
| I'm starting to see the same trend with laptops without a
| keyboard now. There's an entire generation of 8-16 yos who
| never used a keyboard and type fast on ipad screens. In a
| decade, it's a real possibility that keyboardless laptops
| become the standard...
| ikari_pl wrote:
| > But whenever someone answered the call and built a Smartphone
| with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed commercially, simply
| because also to people claiming they want such a phone, at the
| point of sale they were less attractive than their slimmer,
| lighter, all-screen counterparts.
|
| I bought Motorola Droid 4 when it came out. I was so desperate
| to have a new phone with physical QWERTY, that I bought it
| blindly, even though it wasn't available in Europe, even though
| I have never seen it, even though I knew it *didn't support
| mobile networks* in Europe for a few months, to be fixed by an
| update. I had to use a coworker who was going on vacation to
| Florida.
|
| When it arrived, the first thing I saw was that the black
| screen during boot shines bright blueish, horribly bad
| contrast. Then when image appeared, I've learned that it has
| two subpixels per image pixel, for efficiency. This made single
| color areas show the pixels very visibly.
|
| Then I took a photo. The quality reminded me of a Sony Ericsson
| Walkman phone I had 6 years back, except the colors were much
| worse. Everything was blueish. It had a physical (touch)
| "search" button below the screen, but companies like Google
| didn't seem to understand why it would be useful to search for
| anything, so most of their apps didn't react to it. Especially
| Gmail.
|
| But hey, I could touch-type any long message, and I could use
| SSH client conveniently (it even had a physical CTRL button).
|
| Other than the keyboard (pretty solid too), it was one of the
| worst phones I ever had. So yeah, based on that model the
| market decided that "nobody wants keyboard phones", and the
| Droid 5 never came out.
|
| Because it's easy to blame the most standing out feature.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| > Because it's easy to blame the most standing out feature.
|
| This is an odd conclusion considering that the Droid 4 was
| already the FOURTH iteration of a QWERTY device from that ONE
| brand on that ONE carrier, each iteration selling less than
| the one before as each faced more competition.
|
| If you're interested, the actual reason for the end of the
| Droid QWERTY series was that the entire "Droid" brand was a
| Verizon-exclusive product-line with a big focus in sales and
| big budget in Marketing, just to compete with the iPhone
| (which was not available on Verizon until 2011).
|
| For a vendor to win a slot in that lineup meant that Verizon
| Sales and Marketing put all weight behind selling that
| device, no matter what device it is. This made the Droid 1
| and 2 a huge success, not because of the product but because
| of the sales channel.
|
| But in year 3 (2011), the iPhone launched on Verizon, which
| put a huge dent in both sales-focus and budget of Verizon's
| "Droid" product-line.
|
| Later that year, Droid 3 launched but was selling
| significantly less than its predecessors.
|
| In that year, Verizon instead sold 6.5m iPhones (up from ZERO
| iPhones the year before).
|
| So Motorola had to cut their losses on the already ongoing
| development of the Droid 4, the device was redesigned for a
| much lower total sales-expectation and then launched in 2012.
|
| But the sales turned out even lower than expected: By Q4 2012
| Verizon sold 14m Smartphones, with 10m (!) of them being
| iPhones.
|
| The most successful Motorola device of that year was the
| Droid RAZR MAXX HD, a non-QWERTY flagship.
|
| It was clear: That QWERTY keyboard didn't drive sales.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| It's ironic that the author is comparing to iPhone mini which
| was killed just because of low demand.
| raydev wrote:
| There is a paying market, it's just overwhelmingly erased by
| the market for the larger phones, so companies stop bothering.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| That's not correct.
|
| The paying market for larger phones also contains the
| potential market for smaller phones.
|
| There is no ADDITIONAL market in selling smaller phones, and
| not enough free market to make users switch brand for a
| smaller phone. So there is nothing to gain.
|
| Crucially, even if 10% of the iPhone users want a smaller
| phone, they won't buy a smaller phone unless it's compatible
| to the iOS ecosystem. So roughly half of the market can only
| be effectively converted by Apple and for Apple it turned out
| to be not profitable enough to convert them.
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| The problem is that the bar for "commercial failure" is too
| low. I not only _would_ pay more for a qwerty device but I
| _have_ multiple times and I 've delayed purchases of a device
| when no qwerty option was available. And I know there are
| thousands of people like me.
|
| But there aren't hundreds of millions of people like me. And
| the bar for "success" is selling that many units so it gets
| considered a "failure"
| geodel wrote:
| Well if company can't profit selling such device in small
| quantity it is commercial failure. There is not much
| qualification to it beyond that.
|
| The bar appears too low to prospective customer because they
| lose nothing if they try this product but ultimately decide
| to not buy but for business it is clear loss.
|
| This is like those mythical users who'd buy Macs once its
| fully hackable and officially support linux. Apple thinks it
| is just better to not serve those buyers.
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| Sure "can't profit" would be a sensible bar. But in
| practise the bar used is much, much higher that's my point
| throwawaymaths wrote:
| how does Fairphone exist?
| rickdeckard wrote:
| The main features of the Fairphone are ethical and
| sustainable production, repairability and longevity.
|
| Of all the people who prioritize those features when buying a
| new phone, only ~100k users end up buying a fairphone every
| YEAR.
|
| A company like Samsung needs to produce roughly 10x this
| volume BEFORE launch just to fill their sellout channels, so
| their financial risk for a global ramp-up is much higher.
| lastofthemojito wrote:
| Well there's certainly not _no_ paying market. But the market
| is apparently too small to be viable.
|
| Apple apparently sold a couple million iPhone 13 minis. Ford
| reliably sold more than 100,000 Focus cars in the US annually
| before deciding to discontinue it. But Apple and Ford decided
| they were better served redirecting that engineering effort
| towards more profitable projects.
|
| It just frustrating when these gaps occur and there's no
| smaller player to fill them. A couple million small smartphones
| or a couple hundred thousand compact cars sounds like enough to
| sustain a business, but it isn't enough for the big players to
| care, and small players can't affordably create a competitive
| offering.
| osigurdson wrote:
| I think when people start using phones less, they will again
| want them to be small. That is my experience at least. That
| being said, I expect to have to go back to a full size phone
| before that happens.
| wmf wrote:
| People will never use phones less.
| andruby wrote:
| I really like the size of my iPhone mini, and I'm disappointed
| Apple has discontinued them. Apparently the 12 mini represented
| only 6% of iPhone sales, and the 13 mini only 3%.
|
| I haven't upgraded yet.
|
| Why does everyone (most of you too?) like bigger screens? The
| mini screen is big enough for HN, reddit, banking, photos, etc.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Eric is now using the Lightphone 3, and apparently he loves it:
| https://www.thelightphone.com/lightiii
|
| Although, it's not exactly what he wished for in 2022 since it
| doesn't run standard Android and obviously doesn't have
| industrial design like the iPhone mini.
| woodpanel wrote:
| > _QWERTY paradox_
|
| Similar to the ,,ARTE effect": When French TV audiences where
| polled, frequently around 10% responded, that they were
| watching Arte (an artsy government funded intelligentsia TV
| channel) on a daily basis.
|
| yet the ratings rarely surpass 2%
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| I think there could be a market for a small reliable Android
| phone. The main issue is that it'd take years to build up a
| model's reputation and it'd have to be reasonably low price.
|
| As it stands the kind of people who want a smaller phone almost
| by definition need to be a bit savvier than the market in
| general to know such a thing still exists and along with that
| will have greater skepticism towards Android phones having any
| kind of post market support.
|
| It'd basically have to come from Samsung to hit the all the
| price/quality/trust requirements. Feel like they've already got
| a lot of the pieces there with their corporate targeted XCover
| range just shrink them down a bit.
| subhro wrote:
| > But whenever someone answered the call and built a Smartphone
| with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed commercially
|
| Blackberries? Granted, they failed but for a completely
| different reason.
| jajuuka wrote:
| I think this is true for a lot of different features that get a
| lot of play on social media as "I wish my device had X
| feature." And it's not like QWERTY or small screen phones
| didn't try. They had models that were best of the best,
| cheapest of the cheap, mid range, offered a range of options
| and choices. And the audience just isn't there.
| 0xEF wrote:
| Remember the Palm (palm.com, not to be confused with Palm PDAs
| of a much earlier era) for Verizon networks? That answered all
| my requests at the time; about the size of an iPhone 5S but
| running Android 8, but with the caveat that I had to have a
| "big" smartphone so the Palm could piggyback off the line, even
| though I could just leave the "big" smartphone at home.
|
| I have no idea why that was the case and can't even speculate
| since I don't know enough about how the networks worked, but I
| would love to hear an explanation. I was pretty annoyed by the
| fact that I still needed to own what I considered a phablet,
| which was sitting collecting dust on my bedside table at home
| just so I could have the type of phone I really wanted. Seemed
| like a punishment-by-design for trying to step off the typical
| customer rails.
|
| My tastes have changed slightly these days, and I'm okay with a
| 5.X" screen or whatever, but now I want it to be eInk or
| something similar and focus more on text/sms as I've gotten
| pretty minimalism with my phone use.
| dengolius wrote:
| looks like iPhone SE 2025 should cover user needs for $800
| CafeRacer wrote:
| I wish there was a phone, preferably with buttons (bb q10 like),
| that can run WhatsApp, banking app and Apple Pay (or whatever
| android version is). Also it should be running these stupid
| government apps. And music please... preferably with 3.5mm jack
| so I can connect my nice headphones. This phone can have mediocre
| camera.
| eskibars wrote:
| Man this hits home. I'm a reasonably sized human, but there are
| almost no devices on the market outside of iPhones where I can
| reach from bottom right to upper left with 1 hand without
| shifting the phone around in my hand. I hate it.
|
| I'd be willing to take less battery life to get something like
| this, but nearly everything that's anywhere close either has no
| NFC (which means mobile payments are out the door) or doesn't
| have 5G or just has such an awful camera/processor as to be
| basically unusable for many every-day tasks.
| spankibalt wrote:
| > "But whenever someone answered the call and built a Smartphone
| with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed commercially, simply
| because also to people claiming they want such a phone, at the
| point of sale they were less attractive than their slimmer,
| lighter, all-screen counterparts."
|
| The slab form factor is excellent industry design; modern efforts
| to _integrate_ a hardware-keyboard, i. e. in a non-detachable
| way, are quite frankly daft. It buys the worst of both worlds:
| added complexity and error-proneness, more (dead) weight, awkward
| handling, harder maintainability /repairability, etc.
|
| The form factor that was represented by Psion-machines such as
| the 3- or 5-series was great at the time, but is now obsolete, as
| evidenced by Planet Computers' recreations. Integrated sliders
| (e. g. F(x)tec) are only marginally better.
|
| Technically, the solution of course is very elegant and simple:
|
| 1. Slab-form factor UMPC/smartphone 2. Corresponding detachable
| (as "attachable folder"), roughly Psion 5-sized keyboard a
| similar 3. Small "click-in" keyboard dock a la Pinephone keyboard
| or a 4. Detachable slider
|
| But that is indeed just one variable in the whole equation;
| there's a whole set of features I consider essential for a
| smartphone- or UMPC-like device that one doesn't find anymore.
| qwertytyyuu wrote:
| Take the compromise the the Motorola razr and never open it. At
| least for now, that;s what I'm doing
| moron4hire wrote:
| I want an Android phone that doesn't break. My iPhone is a beast,
| but I hate using it, I'm too used to the Android interface
| (especially the keyboard, I can't believe how bad the keyboard is
| on iOS). But every Android phone I've ever had gets dinged up
| very easily and eventually falls apart.
|
| I bought an iPhone 15 and a Pixel 7 at the same time when I
| started a new job 2 years ago. I keep my work stuff on the
| iPhone. For the first year, I kept them in the same pocket and
| had them both everywhere with me. The Pixel within a few weeks
| was starting to look beat up. The iPhone still looks practically
| brand new.
|
| Just last night, I got home, pulled my Pixel out of my pocket,
| and found a crack near the corner of the screen. Now the screen
| is glitching out on the bottom 15% of the screen. I didn't drop
| it, I didn't bump into anything. Regular pocket pressure while
| sitting in my car must have bent it and it buckled.
|
| My wife has had similar experiences with Samsung phones.
|
| If it weren't for the lack of good browsers on iOS, I'd put up
| with the shitty keyboard.
| Mouvelie wrote:
| Switched from my iPhone 13 mini to a Qin F21 Pro. I will buy
| phones like this as long as I can ! It was a pain to setup but it
| works well for what I want (having a smartphone in Canada)
|
| https://www.duoqin.com/
| omgtehlion wrote:
| These days I want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone phone... :(
| mpascale00 wrote:
| Number one factor for me when buying a phone is _how long is it
| going to last_. I mean durability, camera quality, os updates.
| Will I still want to use /be using it in 5 years?
|
| I cannot justify $700 as much as I _really want a smaller phone_.
| But _maybe if it was built to last_ I would be the customer and I
| would tell all my friends.
|
| Currently use a Pixel 7a because it was cheap and OK. I was
| debating the iPhone 12 mini but it was already a little old, and
| I prefer Android.
|
| I suspect, if others are like me, that those who want small
| phones also just want something that works and is a little
| minimal - not necessarily all the power best camera etc. To be
| clear, I _don't_ want one of those minimalist dumbphones, I want
| _a smartphone_ that's small Do y'all feel the same?
|
| Propose a $500 small phone that's OK on specs but LASTS.
| JamesSwift wrote:
| Yes. The iphone se was basically the exact thing I wanted (and
| previously the moto G series). It doesnt seem like apple wants
| to continue to offer the product line.
| RankingMember wrote:
| The 16e is the successor to the SE in case you want to take a
| look at that.
| alabhyajindal wrote:
| 16e is not a small phone, it's about the same size as an
| iPhone 16.
|
| https://phonesized.com/compare/#2552,2644,1975,1863
| JamesSwift wrote:
| Right, and even the 2nd/3rd gen SE got much bigger than
| the original. I basically want the original SE (which I
| believe is the same as the iPhone 5s), with no bezels.
|
| Actually, looking at that handy link you provided, it
| appears the 13 mini is basically that. Discontinued in
| 2023 : /
| butz wrote:
| Silly question: how hard would it be to find some manufacturer in
| China, that could manufacture several hundreds or thousands of
| low-mid range devices, of iPhone SE size or similar? Would be
| great to have ability to run PostmarketOS.
| _seiryuu_ wrote:
| This resonates strongly. The Pixel 7 is my current holdout due to
| its 'acceptable' size, even though it's not exactly "mini". It's
| a shame to see manufacturers like Asus move away from compact
| form factors, as I'd have been an immediate buyer for a smaller
| ZenFone.
|
| The market's push towards larger devices is making e-ink 'dumb'
| phones increasingly appealing for me.
| otikik wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone. They don't do them any more
| neuroelectron wrote:
| The idea that nobody wants a small phone seems odd to me when
| Asus Zen Fone 10 is extremely rare and the iPhone 13 mini only
| exists in retail as refurbs.
| herpdyderp wrote:
| I was hoping that the foldable phone market would fix this, but
| instead of making normal sized (huge) phones that fold into half
| the size, they made tablets that fold into normal sized (huge)
| phones!
| ikari_pl wrote:
| It's something. (I may be biased, just switched to my 2nd
| foldable, even more foldable than the previous one)
| arccy wrote:
| you can get a Samsung Galaxy Flip series phone
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| Heh. I want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone (2025)!
| BeFlatXIII wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone with the Pro model cameras.
| ceedan wrote:
| I have a 13 mini and a case with a built-in 6800mAh battery.
| Without the case, this phone is low battery half way through the
| day. When watching videos, I do feel like 5.4" screen is a little
| bit small. Overall happy though. I wanted a smaller phone.
| ccorcos wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini-sized iPhone! You can't buy them anymore
| and now I have a big phone!
|
| A weird correlation I've observed is that many tech savvy
| designer folks have iPhone mini's. I think partly because they do
| their main work on a computer and don't lean on their phones as
| much.
| kristopolous wrote:
| Japan still makes reasonably sized phones - plenty of them.
| Recommend shopping for one if you're going over sometime soon.
| raydev wrote:
| What I find fascinating is that Apple's and [Android
| manufacturers]'s previous attempts at smaller phones aren't even
| worth maintaining after they assess sales.
|
| In my mind, these companies are all so massive they can afford a
| little fragmentation for the obviously small market, with no
| meaningful impact to their sales numbers or profits.
|
| On the iPhone minis, there's very obviously a market for them,
| but the market is so small compared to the market for "all
| iPhones" that it practically vanishes in comparison, which leads
| Apple to not bother. Is it really _that_ expensive to maintain a
| more niche line for each generation?
| Skunkleton wrote:
| > Is it really that expensive to maintain a more niche line for
| each generation?
|
| Think of just the work that goes into having an assembly line
| customized for a specific form factor. To keep price, quality,
| and profit in line with their other phones I think the answer
| here is clearly yes.
| kevincox wrote:
| Especially if having that line means only 1% more customers
| and 19% customers that just buy the small model _instead_ of
| the other model. And unless you are launching the Mini Pro
| Max Ultra X you are losing money on that 9% of customers that
| would have bought the higher margin phone but instead bought
| the mini version which is only available at the more base
| model.
|
| (Numbers made up to illustrate the point)
| Skunkleton wrote:
| I fall into that category. My first choice would be an
| iphone pro mini. My second choice is an iphone pro max. I
| refuse to explain my preferences.
| redbell wrote:
| This was a hot post in 2022:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31411191
| melesian wrote:
| I want a Linux phone based on open source hardware. I gave up an
| iPhone for Android then switched to Pixels. My current Pixel 7
| will be my last Google phone. I want out of the surveillance
| economy. I want AI assistance as badly I want a hole in the head.
|
| I carry an 8 inch tablet (fits in a jacket pocket) and do most of
| my mobile web, email, podcast listening etc. on that, using my
| phone as a hotspot. Can't buy a new 8 inch tablet with a
| fingerprint reader. Got a couple of 2nd hand ones on eBay and
| will soon look at putting LineageOS on them (they have out of
| date versions of Android).
| the_gipsy wrote:
| Tha sad truth is that small screens don't work anymore, because
| apps are all tailored for bigger screens. I noticed this when I
| had an iPhone mini. It just did not work right. The UIs that are
| supposed to be surrounding the main part just cover too much. The
| range is from mildly annoying to completely blocked.
|
| Really sad, because the device was physically very practical, and
| I don't really need such a big screen, just smart UIs like we
| used to have, that don't cram the screen full of every feature of
| every PM that ever worked at the company.
| xorcist wrote:
| Make your 5.4" screen phone with:
|
| - a 3.5mm jack
|
| - fingerprint sensor on the back
|
| and it's an immediate buy for me, (almost, but not really)
| regardless of price!
|
| The Pixel 4 had a 5.6" screen and it feels like the local maxima
| of mobile phone design. Ran GrapheneOS perfectly too.
| lloda wrote:
| I think a squat format like 4:5 would be much more practical than
| 9:16 or whatever most phones are. It's unfortunate that's the
| format that's come to dominate, especially when you consider the
| rise of vertical video.
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