[HN Gopher] Cloudflare starts blocking pirate sites for UK users
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cloudflare starts blocking pirate sites for UK users
        
       Author : gloxkiqcza
       Score  : 192 points
       Date   : 2025-07-15 14:33 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (torrentfreak.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (torrentfreak.com)
        
       | xandrius wrote:
       | Shouldn't surprise absolutely nobody, once you become the
       | gatekeeper of the Internet, you're going to gatekeep.
       | 
       | Now it's torrent sites and next it's going to be other things the
       | party in charge doesn't like.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | About a decade ago, there were proposals for a "driver's
         | license for the internet."
         | 
         | Nowadays... I actually think it might be a lesser evil. Picture
         | such an ID, if there were a standard for it, enrolled into your
         | computer.
         | 
         | If it were properly built, your computer could provide proof of
         | age, identity, or other verified attributes on approval. The ID
         | could also have micro-transaction support, for allowing
         | convenient pay-as-you-go 10 cents per article instead of
         | paywalls, advertising, and subscriptions everywhere. Websites
         | could just block all non-human traffic; awfully convenient in
         | this era of growing spam, malware, AI slop, revenge porn, etc.
         | Website operators, such as those of small forums, would have
         | far less moderation and abuse prevention overhead.
         | 
         | Theoretically, it would also massively improve cybersecurity,
         | if websites didn't actually need your credit card number and
         | unique identity anymore. Theoretically, if it was tied to your
         | ID, it's like Privacy.com but for every website; much lower
         | transaction friction but much higher security.
         | 
         | I think that's the future at this rate. The only question is
         | who decides how it is implemented.
        
           | 63stack wrote:
           | This is so naive. Big tech would be the first to get various
           | exceptions to train their greedy AIs. They would lobby so
           | hard to lock down personal computers, just to make sure you
           | are not tampering with your digital passport. Google would
           | finally have their wet dream of locked down PCs that have no
           | adblock.
           | 
           | Politicians would be salivating at the idea of getting the
           | real identities of dissenters, and religious fucks would
           | finally have their way of banning porn and contraceptives.
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | You're assuming this isn't already in the works; I simply
             | see it as we can make the standard now, or let the standard
             | be dictated.
             | 
             | We're already seeing it piecemeal, with Cloudflare
             | supporting skipping CAPTCHAs on verified iOS and macOS
             | devices; mobile driver's license enrollment options on iOS;
             | age verification rollouts for websites with no-doubt people
             | thinking how to streamline things; etc.
             | 
             | I personally think we are one big cyberattack from the
             | whole concept returning fast. One big cyberattack from
             | governments (and people in general) saying they've had
             | enough of the free-for-all status quo. This isn't a good
             | place to be.
        
               | 63stack wrote:
               | I'm aware that this might very well be "in the works",
               | what's your point with that? Who is this "we" you are
               | talking about? Are you going to publish a repository on
               | github about what you believe is the ethical way to do
               | this, and you expect Google to follow, or ???
               | 
               | What is this "one big cyberattack away" that you are
               | talking about? Large sites get hacked all the time, and
               | _nobody_ in power gives a single flying fuck. There are
               | zero people held responsible for storing passwords in
               | plaintext, or the admin password set to "123456" or
               | passwords left as the default.
               | 
               | Seriously, what are you talking about?
        
           | dingnuts wrote:
           | oh good, and your authoritarian government can know you're in
           | the closet and trying to figure out how to leave the country,
           | too!
           | 
           | no, fuck this idea so hard. if this is inevitable, our duty
           | is to build technology that defeats it
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | Local ID Proofs =/= Surveillance
        
               | dingnuts wrote:
               | it absolutely will mean surveillance, unless you were
               | born yesterday. governments will implement what you're
               | describing in a way that is not privacy preserving
               | 
               | this is supposed to be HACKER news, not fucking
               | bootlicker news
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | Yes, and we're losing. Why do you think the internet is
               | covered in ads, 25% Cloudflare, infested with CAPTCHAs
               | and IP blocking, and the problem gets worse every year?
               | 
               | There are real problems that haven't been fixed; the
               | driver's license concept _correctly implemented_ might be
               | better than continuing down this path. I view it as we
               | can make a good standard; or let a bad standard be
               | dictated.
        
               | dingnuts wrote:
               | > Yes, and we're losing. Why do you think
               | 
               | Obviously. Why do YOU think I'm angry-posting about it on
               | the orange shithole site with the username "dingnuts" ?
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | The drivers license id doesn't solve anything but adds a
               | layer of nonsense on top.
               | 
               | That doesn't stop cloudflares marketshare takeover. It
               | doesn't stop CAPTCHA which will filter out bots using
               | these ids. It provides an easy method for hackers to use.
               | It filters out the curious kids.
               | 
               | In the end it solves nothing and creates more problems.
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | Most ads that I see these days are from Big Tech
               | megacorps. Do you seriously think that having a "driver
               | license for the Internet" would mean that the likes of
               | Google and Meta would stop?
        
               | hombre_fatal wrote:
               | Those are trivial problems compared to an internet linked
               | to your identity.
               | 
               | Clicking through some captchas and installing an
               | adblocker just isn't the hard life you're trying to claim
               | it is.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | At least in the current system, there are some websites
               | where you don't have to prove your real identity. Hacker
               | News, for example.
               | 
               | In an internet driver's license system, remember that
               | your computer would have to be locked down, and only able
               | to access government-approved websites using government-
               | approved clients - something like they have in China, or
               | like using an iPhone but worse.
               | 
               | Once the ability for any site to verify your identity was
               | set up, all sites would have to verify your identity, or
               | lose their own verification, under one of many standard
               | excuses like protecting the children.
        
             | derektank wrote:
             | You can create an ID card system that reliably verifies
             | some sort of personal attribute (such as age) without
             | revealing other personal information or a validation
             | request being sent to the government which shares what
             | sites you may or may not have been browsing
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | I think the point is that "can" is not the same as
               | "will".
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | Because only people who are engaging in cynicism can
               | predict the future.
        
               | secstate wrote:
               | Cynicism wins the day because negative outcomes are
               | easier to plan for than positive outcomes. Humans
               | defaulting to optimistic outcomes of the future often end
               | up littering the ground with externalities that they
               | failed to consider. And we also only have a single model
               | for infinite growth (cancer) that always leads to
               | destruction, so relentless optimism as a biological
               | organism means a need for infinite growth, which we only
               | know to be a path to destruction.
               | 
               | The answer, therefore, is not bitching on the internet
               | about all the wet blankets who only see negative
               | outcomes, but acknowledging that everything we know needs
               | to end eventually including ourselves, and balancing
               | optimism for the short term with cynicism for the long
               | term. And thus discovering that a healthy cynicism for
               | the future predictions is probably appropriate, unless
               | you truly want to live forever and have infinite energy
               | for everything. But that's a god.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | Easier to plan for is an interesting lens to look
               | through, can't immediately discard it for sure.
               | 
               | From my perspective, negative expectations do have a
               | higher chance of turning out real, but because negative
               | expectations most often are just code for human
               | misalignment. We have some philosophical, instinctual, or
               | aesthetic (etc.) preferences, but then reality is always
               | going to be broader than that. So you're bound to hit
               | things that are in misalignment. It takes active effort
               | to cultivate the world to be whatever particular way. But
               | this is also why I find simple pleas to cynicism
               | particularly hollow. It comes off as resignation, exactly
               | where the opposite is what would be most required.
        
               | secstate wrote:
               | That's a fair counter argument, and I do genuinely
               | believe (not know) that everyone needs a balance of
               | cynicism and optimism to function optimally as a human. I
               | also believe the resignation you feel from cynicism is
               | rampant exactly because as humans we've become very good
               | at basic survival and beyond that it's not totally clear
               | what our targets for living should be. Certainly we can
               | all agree that trying to harness ever more energy and
               | growing forever can't be the target. But that's all we've
               | done for two millennia now. How to we avoid becoming a
               | cancer to our planet (or any other environment we find
               | ourselves in)?
        
               | ajsnigrutin wrote:
               | Some of us learn from experience and make predictions
               | based on past actions by the governments.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | Trauma sufferers also just learned from experience.
        
               | exe34 wrote:
               | The rich and powerful have always worked very hard to
               | keep their position. They have vastly more resources than
               | the rest of us to throw at the problem. It's not cynicism
               | to predict that every tool will be used to make our lives
               | worse unless it helps them get richer and more powerful.
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | These are possible, there are zero-knowledge proof (ZKP)
               | algorithms and whatnot, but it is not going to happen.
        
               | Aloisius wrote:
               | First, while there's research on the math for things like
               | ZNP, there is a shocking lack of research on security
               | vulnerabilities for the actual implementations of such
               | age verification systems which should make anyone using
               | them extremely nervous.
               | 
               | Second, if a porn website, social media, video game or
               | whatever other thing regulators want to discourage people
               | visiting kicks you off into an age verification takes
               | requires you to some system/site, even an independent
               | one, that requires you upload your ID, a fair number of
               | people will simply refuse simply due to lack of
               | understanding in how it works and trust that it actually
               | is anonymous.
               | 
               | Third, every implementation I've seen doesn't work for
               | some/all non-citizens/tourists.
               | 
               | And finally and more importantly, the ease at bypassing
               | those systems means it's unlikely to stop anyone underage
               | and ultimately is no better than existing parental
               | control software, so all one is doing is restricting
               | speech for adults.
        
               | jlokier wrote:
               | To the surprise of many, Google recently announced it is
               | already integrating ZK-proof-of-age into Google Wallet
               | with those kinds of properties, open sourcing the
               | underlying libraries, and working with governments to
               | encourage their ZKP system's adoption for exactly this
               | sort of problem.
               | 
               | - [2025-04-29] https://blog.google/products/google-
               | pay/google-wallet-age-id...
               | 
               | - [2025-07-03] https://blog.google/technology/safety-
               | security/opening-up-ze...
               | 
               | - [2025-06-11] https://zeroknowledge.fm/podcast/363/
        
             | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
             | the number of people who work for (or defend those who work
             | for) firms like raytheon, northrop grumman, palantir, meta,
             | amazon, microsoft, alphabet, flock et al leads me to
             | believe there are not enough people left to care about
             | building this technology. we're cooked. too many developers
             | lack the moral position necessary to turn the tide in a
             | meaningfully widespread way - at best, it's "if not me,
             | someone else will do this work anyways, so i might as well
             | be the one collecting the paycheck/stock options." at
             | worst, it's "i think it's a good thing to create tools to
             | surveil/manipulate/kill people."
             | 
             | mourn the loss of the internet we knew and be ready to
             | sacrifice ease of use to return to lower-tech/still-
             | underground options.
        
           | strken wrote:
           | I'm in favour of A) a restricted internet with an encryption
           | scheme based on state controlled hardware devices, like
           | Estonia has, that's accessible by default from browsers, and
           | B) an unrestricted internet that's available to anyone who
           | clicks through a few scary browser warnings, but is generally
           | regarded as weird, dangerous, and not commercially viable
           | except for weird or dangerous stuff.
        
             | xandrius wrote:
             | And then wait for when the well-funded and publicly
             | supported A decides that B is evil and needs to be taken
             | down.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | Realistically, the moment the two are decoupled, B) is
             | going to be banned and blocked outright - and the more they
             | are decoupled, the easier it would be to ban. By and large,
             | the only reason why it's still possible to access "dark"
             | content online is because it's so intermeshed with the more
             | mundane stuff on infrastructure level that the most
             | efficient blocking methods have unacceptably high levels of
             | collateral damage.
        
               | strken wrote:
               | I don't see how you'd decouple one from the other, given
               | that it's essentially just giving the user their own
               | encryption certificate. Have the EU pass legislation
               | saying that you can't request that the user sign anything
               | unless they're in the process of making an account.
        
           | rendx wrote:
           | German national ID has this built-in; you can
           | cryptographically prove that you are currently in possession
           | of an ID (and its PIN) over a certain age, for example,
           | without revealing your date of birth. It's just not in
           | widespread use.
        
             | thmsths wrote:
             | Thank you for sharing this. I have been frustrated about
             | the lack of chip and pin for IDs for years. We have had
             | digital IDs in the form of debit/credit card since the 90s,
             | and yet the governments have been agonizingly slow to adopt
             | this (at least to me) painfully obvious idea. So good job
             | Germany!
        
               | Sophira wrote:
               | Chip and PIN is almost how electronic passports already
               | work - it's just that the 'PIN' is printed in the
               | passport itself, so in order for anybody to communicate
               | with the chip, it has to see the page which has it
               | printed in order to scan for it first.
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | CA DMV app lets me add my driver's license to my mobile
               | wallet (which works with NFC).
               | 
               | Of course, it doesn't eliminate my legal responsibility
               | to carry my driver's license while driving, and while the
               | printed piece of plastic lasts five years and my passport
               | booklet is legal I.D. for 10 years at a time, the mobile
               | driver's license needs to be updated every 30 days.
        
               | KoolKat23 wrote:
               | Why have the digital version of you need the plastic copy
               | still?
        
         | heavensteeth wrote:
         | Right, it's only natural; they MitM 20% of the internet.
         | 
         | Similarly, I struggle to believe they're not providing much of
         | the data they collect to the CIA.
        
           | anon191928 wrote:
           | CIA front like snapchat with all on camera access. Nothing
           | surprising
        
         | jasonlotito wrote:
         | > Shouldn't surprise absolutely nobody...
         | 
         | ...because this is far from the first time this has happened
         | with Cloudflare.
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | Is it? When did it happen before?
        
       | crinkly wrote:
       | Yes centralising power was such a good idea. Well done big tech.
       | Another footgun.
        
         | theideaofcoffee wrote:
         | How is this a footgun? Big Tech will protect Big Tech, it's
         | only an advantage to have a service that will bend to their
         | will. The centralization is the point.
        
           | ndr wrote:
           | Anything centralized is easier to capture.
        
           | crinkly wrote:
           | The bit where we hand everything over and then take the
           | consequences for doing so.
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | Everyone opted to use Cloudflare, not just big tech. They now
           | control much of the internet in a way that any nation state
           | could only dream of.
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | cloudflare is big tech now?
        
           | pmdr wrote:
           | It sits between millions of users and the websites they
           | desire to visit, and if they're on the right network using
           | the right browser, they won't even know it.
           | 
           | It's #24 on this list
           | https://companiesmarketcap.com/software/largest-software-
           | com... so I'd say it's big tech.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Just when streaming site are turning extra crappy and user
       | hostile
        
       | gonzalohm wrote:
       | Is this because the torrent sites are using cloudfare on their
       | end? If so, seems like a simple solution
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | Torrent sites use Cloudflare to hide their origin IPs, among
         | other things, so just not using it isn't an easy option.
         | 
         | Easier for torrent sites to tell people to use VPNs.
        
       | hobbitstan wrote:
       | First, they came for 8chan...
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | This isn't part of that slippery slope, since that was
         | Cloudflare's voluntary choice, but this is legally required of
         | them. (I do think both kinds are bad, though.)
        
           | airhangerf15 wrote:
           | Cloudflare also blocked a popular Internet celebrity gossip
           | site and actionably -defamed them in the process, and a
           | popular blog, yet still has customers who run animal crushing
           | sites (which is literally illegal content in many countries).
           | 
           | Don't defend them. Their decisions are arbitrary and it's
           | really sad so much of the web has chosen to use their garbage
           | services.
        
       | amiga386 wrote:
       | PSA: UK users can visit all their favourite websites in Tor
       | Browser. Just don't run your torrent client using the tor
       | network. Thank you.
       | 
       | You can also access 4chan, Tattle Life, and other nasty gossip
       | websites that the UK nanny state wants to ban.
       | 
       | And you can access the porn on Reddit and Twitter (though in some
       | cases you'll have to make an account). And of course the "tube"
       | sites work fine.
       | 
       | After you've done that, as a UK citizen, please go to
       | https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903 and ask the
       | government to repeal their awful law.
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | I don't actually _use_ Reddit or Twitter, but I sometimes come
         | across NSFW posts from links. I 've found that old.reddit.com
         | seems to allow you to bypass the filter(s) without needing an
         | account. For Twitter, I tend to use the xcancel.com Nitter
         | instance, though there are other Nitter instances that work
         | fine.
         | 
         | Bonus for using Nitter here, you can also see the latest posts
         | from an account instead of the most popular posts, and see
         | replies/interactions to individual tweets. Oh, and it gives you
         | plain HTML.
         | 
         | Reddit pisses me off so much that despite the fact that I don't
         | even _use_ Reddit, just so that my experience sucks less when I
         | 'm linked to Reddit or have another reason to lurk it,
         | 
         | - I use the "Old Reddit Redirect" extension to force the
         | browser to go to old reddit
         | 
         | - I use the "Load Reddit Images Directly" extension to bypass
         | Reddit's hideous image viewer that tries to load if your
         | browser makes the mistake of having text/html in the "Accept"
         | headers when opening an image in a new tab. (Dear
         | Firefox/Chrome/etc: maybe stop doing that? If I open an image
         | in a new tab, there is a _zero_ percent chance I want HTML.)
        
           | peterpost2 wrote:
           | The bypass via old.reddit.com stopped working today as well.
        
             | Normal_gaussian wrote:
             | I just googled 'top nsfw Reddit' and aside from some
             | disturbing implications of 'top' all opened fine with
             | 'old.'. The IP is UK based, is coming up as UK on all geoip
             | sites I tried and is in all of the last 30days of maxmind
             | as UK based.
             | 
             | It might be some kind of phased rollout of course.
        
               | jchw wrote:
               | Oops, I should note that I'm a U.S. citizen in a state
               | without any porn age gate laws. I have no idea what the
               | status of using old.reddit.com to bypass the NSFW filter
               | is in other jurisdictions, or honestly even my own (not
               | sure how to test it.) All I know for sure is that it
               | worked last time I tried it.
        
           | gh02t wrote:
           | Is the reddit equivalent of xcancel/nitter (i.e., redlib
           | https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib) also blocked?
           | Presumably if the instance is hosted outside the UK it would
           | work since I think it effectively proxies your requests.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | Reddit is also very aggressive at blocking VPNs. Mullvad is
           | constantly blocked. Occasionally I'll turn it off, but Reddit
           | is just a terrible place so I usually go elsewhere (I'm only
           | going because of Google search results. I'd rather use an LLM
           | than turn off my vpn for Reddit)
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | Interesting, are you using any particular exit country for
             | Mullvad? I've used Canada and never ran into Reddit
             | blocking it.
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | Mostly US and Sweden. I'll give Canada a go. Thanks for
               | the suggestion
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | On tor, reddit blocks you from logging in with 90-95% of the
         | exit nodes
        
           | v5v3 wrote:
           | You are very unlucky
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | Reddit runs an onion service. Can you not use that?
        
             | fnord77 wrote:
             | Logins almost always give some 4xx error from both their
             | onion address and regular address on Tor
             | 
             | You can browse though
        
         | blackhaj7 wrote:
         | > Just don't run your torrent client using the tor network. I
         | have never used tor so novice question: why not?
         | 
         | > please go to https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903
         | Signed!
        
           | Retr0id wrote:
           | The tor network essentially relies on donated exit node
           | bandwidth, and there's a finite capacity at any point in
           | time. Torrenting is a bandwidth hog (and a lot of exit nodes
           | will filter it out anyway)
        
             | noisem4ker wrote:
             | Is it really just a matter of my bandwidth being hogged up,
             | or more a risk of getting my IP address (range) banned, if
             | not worse legal risks from activities being traced to me?
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | You can't get banned because no one knows who you are.
               | You can bring down the entire Tor network. Probably not
               | you by yourself, but if enough people do it they can.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | I believe OP was responding from the perspective of an
               | exit node operator.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Exit nodes have to deal with much more severe things than
               | copyright infringement. They regularly get raided by law
               | enforcement for accusations of child porn and hacking,
               | and have to defend themselves by pointing out they didn't
               | originate the traffic. There's a whole bunch of tips out
               | there about how to not go to jail for running an exit
               | node (which is legal).
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | Yes, an exit node operator will appear as the source of
               | the traffic, which can have legal repercussions.
               | (Personal risk.)
               | 
               | But on a macro scale, the entire Tor network has fairly
               | limited bandwidth and torrenting is a very easy way to
               | saturate it. (Existential risk to the network / tragedy
               | of the commons)
        
               | mhitza wrote:
               | You can use the I2P network for torrenting if that's what
               | you want, as that kind of traffic is not frowned upon.
               | 
               | Probably going to be slower than over the Tor network
               | without any manual tweaking.
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | That's why some "tor-torrent" protocol should be invented,
             | where data is sent via torrent network. There's still some
             | bandwidth amplification, but as long as someone is seeding
             | from within tor, the whole transfer could be done there.
             | 
             | ...would also help with privacy and nasty telco letters.
        
               | GoblinSlayer wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActivityPub
        
             | schmidtleonard wrote:
             | > donated exit node bandwidth
             | 
             | Hey, we pay $100B/yr of tax money into the NSA/CIA/etc
             | budgets every year so they can run exit nodes among other
             | activities, I wouldn't exactly call it donated
        
             | blackhaj7 wrote:
             | Thanks!
        
           | kobalsky wrote:
           | > I have never used tor so novice question: why not?
           | 
           | bandwidth is a scarce resource on tor.
        
             | staringback wrote:
             | No it isn't. https://metrics.torproject.org/bandwidth.html
        
               | ac29 wrote:
               | Thats relay bandwidth, I assume exit node bandwidth is
               | some fraction of that
        
           | jjmarr wrote:
           | Some clients by default leak your IP when using Tor, the last
           | I checked. When announcing to other peers, the IP of the host
           | machine is provided.
           | 
           | So, you anonymously make the requests through an exit node,
           | but the request contains your IP, which defeats the entire
           | purpose of Tor.
        
             | blackhaj7 wrote:
             | Interesting, thanks
        
         | dtf wrote:
         | You'll need more than just an account to access "certain mature
         | content" on sites like Reddit - you'll soon need to upload some
         | photographic ID.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj4ep1znk4zo
        
           | Retr0id wrote:
           | I wrote a similar comment but then realised that if you're
           | using tor per GP's recommendation, you'd be fine as long as
           | your exit node isn't in the UK, or other regressive
           | jurisdiction.
        
           | zerotolerance wrote:
           | It is trivial to create a digital picture of a false ID.
        
             | Canada wrote:
             | Which is why you will need to provide a cryptographically
             | secure identity credential issued by the government, and
             | you will need to re-verify at regular intervals, not just
             | upload a JPEG.
             | 
             | Make no mistake, the plan is to require 'KYC' for Google,
             | reddit, Facebook, X soon and all that and then later
             | require it for all web sites, even this one.
             | 
             | Australia recently passed a law requiring Google to KYC
             | Australian account holders to check ages to decide if the
             | user will be allowed to control the "safe search" setting.
        
             | alwa wrote:
             | Well. Certainly for people in the room here. One imagines
             | regulators know that too, and will draw the line
             | accordingly... that they may grudgingly tolerate validation
             | systems that allow some degree of individual fraud, but
             | stomp on the first of us here to vibe-code our way to a
             | fraud-as-a-service site that gets any traction.
             | 
             | I'm reminded of all-around-good-guy @patio11's evergreen
             | The Optimal Amount Of Fraud Is Non-Zero...
             | 
             | https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-
             | fra...
        
         | johnisgood wrote:
         | I hope many UK citizens are going to sign it.
        
         | danlugo92 wrote:
         | Crazy stuff
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | Tor is great but the bandwidth/latency kinda sucks for casual
         | browsing activity. A VPN is a more realistic workaround to this
         | kind of geofencing.
         | 
         | I almost said "solution" instead of workaround, but of course
         | the only _actual_ solution is to fix the legislation.
        
           | mike-cardwell wrote:
           | It's actually pretty ok for casual browsing these days. Have
           | you tried it recently?
        
           | ReaperCub wrote:
           | > Tor is great but the bandwidth/latency kinda sucks for
           | casual browsing activity
           | 
           | It is reasonably decent these days. Generally there are
           | periods where Tor network is slow.
           | 
           | > A VPN is a more realistic workaround to this kind of
           | geofencing
           | 
           | Generally I tend to use a combination of Tor / VPN depending
           | on what I am doing. Some gossip sites have onion urls and I
           | will use Tor if visiting those. Other sites that are geo-
           | fenced (sites like Odysee) are easier to get to via VPN.
           | 
           | > I almost said "solution" instead of workaround, but of
           | course the only actual solution is to fix the legislation.
           | 
           | That isn't going to get fixed anytime soon. In fact I expect
           | it to get worse over time.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Not really been much advance notice of that to account holders.
         | I wonder how the normally sane and well balanced people left
         | using Twitter will react to that. Or even how they determine
         | "UK account" anyway, given all the usual geographical
         | qualifiers.
        
         | pmdr wrote:
         | > PSA: UK users can visit all their favourite websites in Tor
         | Browser.
         | 
         | And get to solve a dozen whack-a-mole intentionally-slow-
         | loading reCAPTCHAs just to see the page, or worse, end up in a
         | Cloudflare redirect loop.
        
           | tracker1 wrote:
           | I get enough of that between Brave Browser and using Linux as
           | my desktop OS.
        
             | mhitza wrote:
             | They don't show up significantly more often for me than in
             | Brave browser.
             | 
             | Though at that point might as well use Tor in Brave,
             | because the additional ad&trackers blockers improves
             | drastically the load times.
             | 
             | Now, if only Brave would go the extra mile of having the
             | Tor browser window better mimick the Tor Browser.
        
               | tracker1 wrote:
               | I've got PiHole and a couple extensions installed that
               | block more than Brave itself does. Not really into Tor,
               | but I did try it a couple times.
        
           | ReaperCub wrote:
           | I use tor semi-regularly to get around stupid UK geo-fencing
           | of content and honestly it hasn't been like that in a while.
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | It might be necessary to ensure that your exit node is not in
         | the UK or another locality that is otherwise blocked.
         | 
         | That procedure depends upon your platform and client.
         | 
         | http://www.b3rn3d.com/blog/2014/03/05/tor-country-codes/
         | 
         | Edit: Use this link instead (thanks mzajc!):
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20180429212133/http://www.b3rn3d...
        
           | sherr wrote:
           | I get a "badware" risk on that link from uBlock Origin
           | (Firefox).
           | 
           | "uBlock filters - Badware risks"
        
             | mzajc wrote:
             | The domain has been squatted and displays typical spam
             | advertisements. The last good archive is on https://web.arc
             | hive.org/web/20180429212133/http://www.b3rn3d...
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | Tor is great but wouldn't an easier and higher bandwidth (for
         | the yarr harr) solution to just buy any VPN service that exits
         | outside of the UK?
        
           | v5v3 wrote:
           | Yes
        
           | GoblinSlayer wrote:
           | VPNs are yet another Cloudflare and are next in line to
           | implement censorship.
        
             | Spivak wrote:
             | They very well could be, but I doubt they remain in
             | business for very long were they compelled to block the
             | raison d'etre people use them.
        
         | 6510 wrote:
         | Strange that they would allow such petitions in North Korea..
         | ehh I mean in the uk.
        
         | ReaperCub wrote:
         | > After you've done that, as a UK citizen, please go to
         | https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903 and ask the
         | government to repeal their awful law.
         | 
         | There is literally no point in signing those petitions. The
         | only disagreement between the major political parties in the UK
         | is _how draconian_ it should be.
        
           | v5v3 wrote:
           | Ssshhh
           | 
           | They may work out that UK has a 2 party system where each one
           | just takes turns and none of it makes much difference.
        
             | ReaperCub wrote:
             | I don't think many of the so called alternatives are going
             | to be any better. Wait til they figure that one out!
        
           | teamonkey wrote:
           | If it hits 100k then it needs to be debated in parliament.
           | However the bill was already debated in parliament and got
           | through and the petition doesn't bring anything new to the
           | table.
           | 
           | There would be more of an impact if, perhaps, everyone in the
           | UK who has had to shut a web site because of this law wrote
           | to their MP.
        
             | ReaperCub wrote:
             | > If it hits 100k then it needs to be debated in
             | parliament.
             | 
             | I don't think so. It says on the site "At 100,000
             | signatures, this petition _will be considered for debate in
             | Parliament_ ".
             | 
             | I've seen people get excited about petitions before that
             | got to 100,000 signatures and it all fizzled out, or it
             | wasn't debated seriously in parliament. Often you will get
             | a cookie cutter response with these petitions that is a
             | paragraph long.
             | 
             | The reality is that most of the public are indifferent or
             | supportive of the current legislation and most MPs know
             | that.
             | 
             | > There would be more of an impact if, perhaps, everyone in
             | the UK who has had to shut a web site because of this law
             | wrote to their MP.
             | 
             | Each MP would get maybe a max of 10s of emails/letters
             | each. Many of those MPs wouldn't even bother answering you.
             | Those that do will often will probably give you the brush
             | off.
             | 
             | I've written to my MP before (about encryption
             | legislation), spent a lot of time presenting a clear and
             | cogent argument and I got a "well I might have a chat with
             | the home secretary" and they were still singing the same
             | tune years later. What I was telling them was largely the
             | same as other industry experts. They don't care and that is
             | the unfortunate reality.
             | 
             | The fact is that the direction the UK government (doesn't
             | matter whether it was Red Team or Blue Team) has been going
             | in has been clear for well over a decade at this point. It
             | would take a major political shake up for this to change
             | IMHO.
        
               | teamonkey wrote:
               | True, but MPs receiving a few mails that say "this law
               | has affected me in this way" is IMO far more likely to be
               | effective than a petition with 100k signatures that says
               | "I don't like this law which you recently approved".
               | 
               | MPs have been known to respond to letters. I have had
               | responses to various issues. It obviously depends on the
               | MP. Many MPs were very much opposed to this issue.
        
               | ReaperCub wrote:
               | > True, but MPs receiving a few mails that say "this law
               | has affected me in this way" is IMO far more likely to be
               | effective than a petition with 100k signatures that says
               | "I don't like this law which you recently approved".
               | 
               | I think they are both ineffective. So I don't believe
               | that is true.
               | 
               | > MPs have been known to respond to letters. I have had
               | responses to various issues.
               | 
               | Getting a response is one thing. Having something _done_
               | is another.
               | 
               | > It obviously depends on the MP. Many MPs were very much
               | opposed to this issue.
               | 
               | The legislation was going to happen at some point or
               | another. The direction of travel was quite clear. There
               | are always going to be some dissenters, but the awful
               | legislation got passed anyway. So what did their dissent
               | achieve? Nothing.
               | 
               | I came to the realisation a number of years ago that for
               | the majority of people, the only care about being able to
               | use their Netflix, shopping on amazon, check their email
               | and post photos on Facebook. Concerns outside of that are
               | simply too abstract/distant to care about.
        
               | teamonkey wrote:
               | > I think they are both ineffective. So I don't believe
               | that is true.
               | 
               | I disagree that writing to MPs is always ineffective.
               | Some campaigns have been successful. Whether it will be
               | effective in this case is another matter. Maybe when
               | people start to experience the block it will gain
               | traction.
               | 
               | Of course if you don't even make low-effort attempts to
               | make your voice heard and exercise your democratic
               | rights, you can be certain that you'll lose them.
        
               | ReaperCub wrote:
               | > I disagree that writing to MPs is always ineffective.
               | Some campaigns have been successful. Whether it will be
               | effective in this case is another matter.
               | 
               | It won't be effective in this case. It been going in the
               | same direction of travel and none of the parties
               | (including outsider parties such as the Greens, Reform
               | etc) proclaim to believe in in reversing this direction
               | of travel. They are much more interested in other issues
               | that are much more hot button. Those issues are easy for
               | the public to understand because they are likely to have
               | encountered them often.
               | 
               | > Maybe when people start to experience the block it will
               | gain traction.
               | 
               | No it won't. People will either find a way to circumvent
               | via VPN/Tor or some other mechanism (which is what they
               | already do) or they will simply shrug their shoulders and
               | won't bother.
               | 
               | There has already been a large number of forums/sites
               | that have been shutdown or site been blocked in the UK
               | and there hasn't been any significant traction on this
               | issue.
               | 
               | > Of course if you don't even make low-effort attempts to
               | make your voice heard and exercise your democratic
               | rights, you can be certain that you'll lose them.
               | 
               | I don't really know how to respond to something like this
               | because I believe it is naive on a number of levels. I
               | consider myself a realist. I believe "making your voice
               | heard and exercising your democratic rights" is about as
               | effective as talking to a brick wall (at least on a
               | national level).
               | 
               | I have personally made attempts. I wrote to my MP often.
               | I cited links, news articles etc to back up my argument.
               | It was an utter waste of time. At best you may get a
               | short response. I realised I was ultimately wasting my
               | time, I stopped and will _never_ do it again. _I actually
               | feel stupid for believing that I could make any
               | difference at all_. I suspect this is the experience for
               | other people and is often not spoken about.
               | 
               | Moreover much more notable people have tried to make
               | themselves heard around a number of related concerns
               | about freedom of speech, threats to privacy, iffy
               | counter-terrorism laws etc. More often than not has
               | always been either ignored entirely, responses that
               | completely ignored the crux of the issue, or straight up
               | lies from successive governments for almost two decades
               | now.
               | 
               | Realistically our options will be to learn to live with
               | the poor legislation, circumvent it, or leave the
               | country.
        
         | MortyWaves wrote:
         | I have no idea what Tattle Life is but two clicks in, first to
         | "Offtopic" and then "The Lucy Letby case", and Apple Pay pops
         | up.
         | 
         | Not a fake one, but the real deal trying to charge me PS0.00.
         | 
         | I don't have the patience to investigate that further but I am
         | all behind banning scummy sites like that.
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | Tor is a bit slow for streaming video.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | Funny in a US state I'm finding more and more places are
         | popping up with an age verification. Doesn't really bother me
         | so much content out there but yeah.
         | 
         | It's weird too how I don't want to prove my age, guess it's the
         | taboo aspect of it vs. say showing your id at a bar.
        
       | specproc wrote:
       | The site suggests that VPNs may be effected. What's the mechanism
       | here? Is this likely to cause trouble for all VPNs?
        
         | grumpyinfosec wrote:
         | realistically blocking low cost personal VPNs / proxies is
         | pretty easy. Any new servers they stand up are gonna get picked
         | up by commercial threat intel services with an hour and then
         | just blocked. Especially if the CDNs are working with the
         | government.
         | 
         | You could roll your own but wireguard/openvpn going to random
         | hosting provider is gonna achieve the same thing if they are
         | playing hardball.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | They're not playing hardball, it's all on a "will this do"
           | basis, like the US state-level bans. They're certainly not
           | going to start blocking random IPs in hosting providers,
           | that's reserved for email spammers.
        
         | johnisgood wrote:
         | This is how I block VPNs for game servers:
         | https://zolk3ri.name/cgit/schachtmeister2/about/. It could work
         | for any servers. It is very easy to do so. It gives you a
         | "score" of the IP address (README.md explains it) that
         | connected to your server, and you can decide what to do based
         | on that, for example in my game servers there are certain
         | thresholds. It has been working great.
        
         | instagib wrote:
         | DNS blocking via 1.1.1.1 is suggested. So, change to another
         | dns.
         | 
         | https://www.cloudflare.com/trust-hub/abuse-approach/
        
       | Retr0id wrote:
       | Previously, a convenient and low-latency way to bypass UK
       | internet censorship was to proxy via a local datacentre - it's
       | only the residential ISPs that are under pressure to censor
       | traffic, commercial ones less so.
       | 
       | But if the blocking is happening somewhere other than the ISP,
       | this is less effective. A hypothetical TPB user might want to
       | proxy via Luxembourg now (seems like the shortest hop to
       | somewhere with sane legislation)
        
         | trollied wrote:
         | You didn't even need to do that. Just needed an /etc/hosts
         | entry for the domain.
        
           | Retr0id wrote:
           | My ISP (Virgin Media) does DNS filtering _and_ IP-based
           | blocking _and_ TLS SNI inspection. So you have to use ESNI or
           | domain fronting, which last time I checked my browser could
           | not be easily configured to do.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | You may have some success with DPI bypass tools we've been
             | using in Russia for years now, like GoodbyeDPI and Zapret.
        
             | arp242 wrote:
             | Is that common for all ISPs or just Virgin? When I lived in
             | the UK (already a number of years ago) it was all just DNS-
             | based. Running my own DNS resolver unblocked everything. I
             | don't recall which ISP.
        
               | Retr0id wrote:
               | I _think_ it 's just Virgin doing the SNI stuff, but I
               | wouldn't be surprised if others are doing IP filtering.
               | I'm not sure if anyone's done a good survey of what the
               | different ISPs are doing (it'd be an interesting
               | project).
        
               | doublerabbit wrote:
               | TalkTalk, Sky, BT & pretty much all domestic mainstream
               | ISPs do DPI down to SNI.
               | 
               | They also exercise an IWF proxy so your already MiTM'd.
               | 
               | https://www.iwf.org.uk/
        
             | acheong08 wrote:
             | At this point, what's the difference between the UK and
             | China other than the specific content they block? Some ISPs
             | have even started blocking wireguard here & I've had to
             | resort back to xray/v2ray
        
               | Retr0id wrote:
               | Very little difference. But blocking wireguard is huge
               | change, which ISPs are doing that?
        
       | chickenzzzzu wrote:
       | Classic mafia racket economics would claim that Cloudflare
       | themselves created the botnet ddos problem so that they
       | themselves could solve it, and now they have the power to do
       | this, especially when governments ask them very sternly to do so.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Being that botnet DDOS existed before CF that's a pretty strong
         | statement.
        
           | a2128 wrote:
           | They existed before, but websites selling DDoS as a service
           | were easier to track down and competitors would DDoS
           | eachother. Cloudflare provided a strong layer of protection
           | for everyone, including these DDoS websites, and took no
           | action to take them down when reported
        
         | slt2021 wrote:
         | botnets are usually coming from residential networks due to
         | infected hosts/IoT devices.
         | 
         | if cloudflare were to host malware on their own IPs, it would
         | have been trivial to see CF's steps.
         | 
         | Unless you want to suggest that CF is developing and
         | distributing sophisticated malware and making botnets across
         | the world
        
           | chickenzzzzu wrote:
           | Though certain mafia economics would suggest exactly that, I
           | personally am not suggesting it. It's just an extremely
           | interesting possibility that could only be proven with
           | evidence.
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | Classic NSA tactics would be to setup a giant American Man-In-
         | The-Middle company that most of the traffic of the world passes
         | through.
        
           | chickenzzzzu wrote:
           | And classic Washington Consensus tactics would be to
           | manufacture a fake enemy to demonize in the media, such as
           | Non-Western botnet makers
        
       | sunshine-o wrote:
       | I came to the realisation recently that the free Internet only
       | happened (in the West) because:
       | 
       | - The Silent Generation, in charge at the time, had no idea what
       | was this Internet thing about.
       | 
       | - The US Intelligence community understood it was a powerful tool
       | to operate abroad.
       | 
       | - Nobody dared derailing the only engine of growth and progress
       | in many economies
       | 
       | It obviously got out of control and is very abnormal in fact if
       | you consider how power really works.
       | 
       | As of today, as a user of a reputable VPN, I am blocked from a
       | lot essential websites or have to prove I am an human every 5
       | minutes, it sucks.
       | 
       | Anyway we are one major cyber disaster away for our the state to
       | switch from a blacklist to whitelist paradigm. A safer and better
       | Internet for everyone.
       | 
       | We will probably still have ways to access the "Free" Internet.
       | It is gonna be fun, slower and might get you in serious troubles.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Yeah, a lot of stuff only worked because it was a "subculture".
         | That could no longer be sustained once the first Twitter
         | President arrived.
        
           | ajsnigrutin wrote:
           | The decline of internet began way before trump, I'd say with
           | the rise of facebook and everything moving on there (your
           | local restaurant used to have a website, then switched to
           | facebook only).
           | 
           | Centralized power, centralized censorship.
           | 
           | At approximately the same time, social networks became less
           | social and more propaganda feeds.... so it went from a feed
           | of content made by your friends for other friends (from
           | complaints in status messages to photos of their plates) and
           | moved to whatever crap they try to serve you now,...
        
         | Dracophoenix wrote:
         | You're forgetting that that the Internet was intertwined with
         | the phone system at a time when the latter was the only
         | reliable form of communication at both local and long-distance
         | levels. Interference with the Internet would be interference
         | with the international telephone system.
        
           | int_19h wrote:
           | I don't see how the fact that dial-up was the norm for the
           | internet "last mile" changes anything wrt the ability to
           | block it. It would be done in exact same way it is done today
           | - by forcing ISPs to do the blocking on internet protocol
           | level.
        
           | 6510 wrote:
           | Thats a good idea, we could moderate the phone system.
        
         | MaxPock wrote:
         | The internet was a very good tool in subverting dictatorships
         | and influencing elections. Now that adversaries of the West
         | have mastered it and the shoe is on the other foot ,internet
         | bad
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | > As of today, as a user of a reputable VPN, I am blocked from
         | a lot essential websites or have to prove I am an human every 5
         | minutes, it sucks.
         | 
         | I have to do that using corporate and residential US networks,
         | simply because I use Firefox.
         | 
         | As great as Cloudflares services might be to each individual
         | user, the centralization of infrastructure, and by extension
         | the centralization of power, doesn't seem to be worth it at a
         | macro level. The tragedy of the commons strikes again.
        
           | ajsnigrutin wrote:
           | Try disabling third party cookies, and on some sites, you'll
           | be clicking cloudflare captchas every time you open them :)
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | Ah, I guess that's why I get tons of them, thank you!
             | 
             | Can't they at least set a first-party cookie to avoid
             | repeated captchas per site, given that they're terminating
             | HTTP?
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | The thing is, the Internet was supposed to be P2P initially (in
         | Spanish it had the motto "La red de redes" (the network of
         | networks, meaning that it was supposed to connect several LANs
         | together).
         | 
         | But as soon as you had ISPs started, centralization came. Now,
         | most countries will have at most 5 major ISPs, and in reality
         | geographical availability within countries make 1 or 2
         | available.
         | 
         | Then, originally people had their own websites (I was there!)
         | in their own servers. But Geocities started the centralization
         | trend. And then CDNs, and then MySpace/Facebook and all that.
         | 
         | The only way we are going to get the "freedom" network as it
         | was before is through mesh-networks or similar technologies.
         | Which maybe so far are very slow and cumbersome, but they will
         | have to evolve. I know it is not very fashionable here in HN,
         | but the only see that capable of happening is implementing some
         | kind of "incentive mechanism" that incenvitives people to let
         | data pass through their node in the mesh network; aaaand
         | cryptocurrencies offer an possible solution for that.
        
           | sunshine-o wrote:
           | Something I have always been wondering is: how much was WiMAX
           | a threat to this centralisation and the 3 - 5 ISP per country
           | model?
           | 
           | I remember around 2010 there were cities with several small
           | new ISPs providing fast home and mobile Internet for cheap
           | and with very good coverage. Infrastructure costs were
           | probably very low. Order of magnitude I guess compared to 4G,
           | cable or fiber.
           | 
           | You could find phones supporting it (HTC was one of the
           | maker) and it seemed to be the perfect solution for most
           | users. I am not sure if those small ISPs already had a
           | roaming system in place but it would have made a lot of
           | sense.
           | 
           | Anyway, when Intel finally gave up I thought there are
           | probably strong forces wanting to keep access to the Internet
           | in a few hands, expensive and centralised.
        
             | axus wrote:
             | The centralized search engine's AI summary says that LTE
             | became more popular, and the people who would buy WiMax
             | hardware ended up buying LTE hardware instead.
        
               | sunshine-o wrote:
               | From what I remember (and I might be wrong) WiMAX was
               | first competing on the "home" Internet market. Mostly
               | against cable & DSL I guess at the time. It was a USB
               | dongle you would put in your laptop.
               | 
               | Having a one WiMAX enabled smartphones was the cherry on
               | top and probably more of a long term goal. The only one I
               | remember was the HTC Evo 4G [0] (the first 4G enabled
               | smartphone released in the US, and by 4G they meant
               | WiMAX, not LTE).
               | 
               | My guess is there was for sure a big battle between
               | Intel, major phone manufacturers, telcos, infra providers
               | and various patents holders.
               | 
               | There was probably a chicken and egg dilemma for mobile
               | phone manufacturer since they had to wait for the network
               | to grow before risking launching their WiMAX phone but
               | having a WiMAX enabled phone would make WiMAX at home
               | really attractive.
               | 
               | My guess is also that since people usually get their
               | phone from their telco, phone manufacturer had to be
               | careful not to go against their interests. And since most
               | telco wanted LTE, WiMAX couldn't take off.
               | 
               | But there might be more to this story, including the fact
               | Intel was also trying to get in the phone SOC market at
               | this time.
               | 
               | - [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Evo_4G
        
           | rstuart4133 wrote:
           | > The thing is, the Internet was supposed to be P2P initially
           | (in Spanish it had the motto "La red de redes" (the network
           | of networks, meaning that it was supposed to connect several
           | LANs together).T
           | 
           | The Internet is just a commercialised ARPANet. ARPANet was
           | designed to survive bombs taking out a fair percentage of
           | it's nodes. The Internet still has that robust resistance to
           | damage. You can see it in action when anchors cut ocean
           | cables - barely anyone notices. And as the old saying goes,
           | the internet treats censorship as damage and routes around
           | it.
           | 
           | However, the commercial enterprises built on top of the
           | internet love centralisation. CloudFlare is an interesting
           | case in point. They have been champions of an uncensored
           | internet for as long as I can remember, which is one of the
           | reasons they grew to their current size. That growth was
           | always going to compromise that core principle, because once
           | a significant amount of traffic passed through them they
           | would become an attractive target for groups wanting to
           | inflict their views of what's proper viewing for the rest of
           | the world.
           | 
           | But while CloudFlare can't exist without the internet, the
           | internet will continue on without CloudFlare. So while the
           | self appointed gatekeepers have indeed blocked the large hole
           | in the sponge that is CloudFlare, underneath the sponge is
           | still a sponge. Information people find interesting will just
           | take other routes.
           | 
           | Or to put it another way, if they think they have stopped or
           | even appreciably slowed down teenage boys from accessing
           | porn, they are kidding themselves.
        
         | thomastjeffery wrote:
         | Every computer is a general purpose computer. What would you do
         | to force me to participate exclusively in your nanny-net? I
         | suspect any answer to that question requires an incredible
         | amount of coordination and participation.
         | 
         | The real problem with the internet, as I see it, is
         | centralization. This is a product of monopoly, which is the
         | core feature of copyright. A truly better internet would
         | replace the authoritative structure of copyright with a truly
         | decentralized model.
         | 
         | As far as I can tell, the only hard problem left in
         | decentralized networking is moderation. No one wants to browse
         | an unmoderated internet. The problem is that moderation is
         | structured as an authoritative hierarchy, so it's not
         | compatible with true decentralization.
         | 
         | I propose we replace moderation with curation. Every user can
         | intentionally choose the subset of internet they want to
         | interact with, defined by attestations from other users, all
         | backed with a web of trust. This way everyone is the highest
         | authority, and users can help each other avoid content they are
         | disinterested in.
        
       | ryzvonusef wrote:
       | i thought people in the west used these things called seedboxes?
       | basically computers in low risk countries like romania etc,
       | download the torrent there, then copy the file over or something
       | like that.
        
         | ReaperCub wrote:
         | I have one of these. However it is connected to a VPN 24/7 in
         | my own home. It can't access the net without the VPN being
         | connected and I've checked for IP leaks.
         | 
         | https://github.com/qdm12/gluetun
         | 
         | However at some point I will have a machine setup in a foreign
         | country as a jump box.
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | As per the URLs listed in the article, many people don't
         | download movies nowadays.
         | 
         | They stream them on streaming websites.
        
       | tlogan wrote:
       | So pirate sites cannot use CloudFlare. But isn't that against
       | their ToS?
       | 
       | Im just confused - can somebody explain me this?
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Cloudflare used to have really open ToS and would host
         | _anybody_. This included all sorts of far-right sites, and
         | eventually they accepted that they were going to be held
         | responsible for what their customers were doing.
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | Pirate Sites are stupid. And the need for a Site is a stupid
         | limitation of Bittorrent. People should use real distributed
         | protocols like SoulSeek, Kademila or other similar file sharing
         | protocols that do not require a website for discovery.
        
           | throw123xz wrote:
           | SoulSeek still relies on central servers for some things.
           | Every time they go down, people go to the sub reddit to ask
           | what's happening.
        
           | boramalper wrote:
           | > Pirate Sites are stupid. And the need for a Site is a
           | stupid limitation of Bittorrent.
           | 
           | See https://bitmagnet.io/
        
       | Cu3PO42 wrote:
       | While I don't think it's reasonable to blame corporations for
       | complying with legal orders in the end, I don't see any evidence
       | that they tried to fight it. I really wish they did.
        
         | encom wrote:
         | Why would they fight it? It plays right into their MO as
         | gatekeepers of the Internet.
        
         | ReaperCub wrote:
         | They have no legal grounds to fight it. So there would be no
         | point in trying to.
        
       | gpm wrote:
       | Blocking is the wrong terminology here. Cloudflare is not an ISP
       | which fetches whatever you ask for from third parties. It's a
       | company contracted by the web site owners to distribute their
       | websites. It's much more accurate to say that Cloudflare is no
       | longer _acting as a host_ for pirate sites in the UK.
       | 
       | The shocking part of this isn't that they aren't participating in
       | that form of crime in the UK, it's that they're somehow able to
       | participate in it in the rest of the world.
       | 
       | And I say this as someone who thinks that copyright laws are
       | largely unjust, preventing people from engaging with their own
       | culture, but that doesn't make them not the law.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | See https://cybersecurityadvisors.network/2025/04/15/la-liga-
         | blo... : I'm slightly surprised that this hasn't caught up with
         | them too. It used to be important to stay somewhat "below the
         | radar" when pirating, not creating an account at one of the
         | largest internet services. But then anti-piracy enforcement is
         | about money and going after soft targets.
        
         | lambertsimnel wrote:
         | > It's much more accurate to say that Cloudflare is no longer
         | _acting as a host_ for pirate sites in the UK.
         | 
         | I understood from the article that it was for users in the UK,
         | not for hosts in the UK.
        
           | gpm wrote:
           | The implied parentheses were intended to be "(Cloudflare is
           | no longer acting as a host for pirate sites) in the uk" not
           | "Cloudflare is no longer acting as a host for (pirate sites
           | in the uk)".
        
         | viktorcode wrote:
         | > Blocking is the wrong terminology here. This is geo-blocking,
         | by definition.
         | 
         | Personally, it's always sad when a company agrees to censor on
         | their own merit when they don't have legal obligation to.
        
           | gpm wrote:
           | > > Blocking is the wrong terminology here.
           | 
           | > This is geo-blocking, by definition.
           | 
           | Do you also refer to steam games that only sell in some
           | regions as "geo-blocking"? I don't. Steam doesn't (they call
           | them region restrictions). There's no _blocking_ going on,
           | merely declining to offer something in the first place.
           | Cloudflare is the host here, they aren 't blocking anything,
           | they just aren't providing the pirate site in the first
           | place.
           | 
           | > when they don't have legal obligation to.
           | 
           | While I know relatively little about UK law I'm extremely
           | skeptical of the idea that cloudflare does not have a legal
           | obligation to not knowingly host websites committing
           | copyright infringement.
        
             | bathory wrote:
             | sad how your take is one of the only sensible ones in this
             | thread
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | There are court orders here; it doesn't look voluntary to me.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Most of the world doesn't bother playing whack-a-mole with
         | pirate sites because it usually doesn't work. The UK, however,
         | is no stranger to enacting policies that are known to be
         | ineffective.
        
       | pyb wrote:
       | Why is Cloudflare providing its services to known pirate sites?
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | To prevent a competitor popping up with a USP.
        
         | throw123xz wrote:
         | Is the site illegal? If yes, where? And is CF required to
         | follow the laws of that jurisdiction?
        
       | papichulo2023 wrote:
       | I guess renting a vps and setup wireguard should still work?
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | Yes.
         | 
         | And you can buy VPS using crypto.
        
       | encom wrote:
       | UK is speed-running the Orwellian police state. They're already
       | arresting people for Tweets, and logging "non-crime hate
       | incidents" on your record, available to prospective employers.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | They have been speed-running for decades. Remember "anti-social
         | behaviour orders"? Those were introduced in 1998.
         | 
         | I think a better Orwell reference for this isn't 1984 though
         | but rather https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-
         | foundation/orwel.... This is the essay that was originally
         | meant as a preface to Animal Farm - and, ironically, was itself
         | censored (by publishers).
        
         | throw123xz wrote:
         | Can you quote one of the Tweets that resulted in someone being
         | arrested?
        
           | encom wrote:
           | https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google
           | 
           | Anyway, few examples of many:
           | 
           | >A teenager who posted rap lyrics which included racist
           | language on Instagram has been found guilty of sending a
           | grossly offensive message.
           | 
           | https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921
           | 
           | >A man has been accused of sending a "grossly offensive"
           | tweet in which he claimed "the only good Brit soldier is a
           | deed one" the day after fundraising hero Captain Sir Tom
           | Moore died.
           | 
           | https://news.sky.com/story/man-accused-of-sending-grossly-
           | of...
           | 
           | >UK police arrest veteran because anti-LGBTQ post 'caused
           | anxiety'
           | 
           | https://www.foxnews.com/world/uk-police-british-army-
           | veteran...
           | 
           | >Officers from 37 police forces made 12,183 arrests in 2023
           | [over offensive posts on social media], the equivalent of
           | about 33 per day.
           | 
           | https://archive.ph/Yk6Bo
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Wow, that last statistic on arrests for offensive posts is
             | staggering.
        
       | theodric wrote:
       | I wonder how long it will take their most loyal client state,
       | Ireland, to implement mirror legislation. I give it a year.
        
         | untoasted12 wrote:
         | Setting my VPN to the UK or Ireland is blocking the sites for
         | me. Mainland Europe is fine.
        
           | theodric wrote:
           | Well that didn't take long! Truly, we are the least
           | independent non-member member of the United Kingdom.
        
             | GoblinSlayer wrote:
             | It's truly United.
        
           | KoolKat23 wrote:
           | Are you getting a 451 error though? Think that's something
           | else.
        
       | moktonar wrote:
       | Time to make our own internet...
        
         | RamblingCTO wrote:
         | there are so many approaches already tho. yggdrasil, ipfs, tor,
         | freifunk, meshtastic, i2p (mixing a lot of things here, but
         | there is tech out there). so much cool stuff, we just gotta use
         | it.
        
           | boramalper wrote:
           | > ipfs
           | 
           | IPFS have content blocking already:
           | https://badbits.dwebops.pub/
        
       | bn-l wrote:
       | This is not cloudflare's job.
       | 
       | Also, don't they have bigger problems than this as country?
        
       | KPGv2 wrote:
       | Honestly I really don't care if countries want to ban sites that
       | obviously exist to facilitate breaking the law. Yeah yeah but muh
       | linux isos. If they call themselves PIRATE BAY, EZTV, SPORTSCULT
       | or whatever, and everyone who uses it talks only about pirating
       | movies and stuff with a wink wink "linux ISOs" it's pretty clear
       | why it exists.
       | 
       | Visit others like ext.to and literally the entire front page is
       | stuff like the new Superman movie, etc. You sound like a fool if
       | you try to argue it's mainly for legitimate purposes. (Contrast
       | with freenet and stuff, where if you've ever used it, you'll find
       | most of the stuff there is people's boring ass personal webpages
       | and stuff
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | The Internet sees censoring as damage and routes around it
       | accordingly.
        
         | betaby wrote:
         | 'The Internet' is not a thing and won't route anything around.
         | Censured sites stay censured.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | No, that was Usenet. John actually said "the Net", but he was
         | talking about Usenet. Usenet routing does work that way,
         | although it's vulnerable to spoofing. Internet routing
         | basically doesn't work that way at all and never has.
        
       | devmor wrote:
       | I think "block" is a misnomer here.
       | 
       | Cloudflare has said pirate sites as clients - they are not (and
       | cannot) block any pirate sites that are not their clients. The
       | remedy is for those sites to no longer be patrons of Cloudflare.
       | 
       | If an analogy helps anyone understand better - imagine you have a
       | lemonade stand. You use your neighbor's yard to set up the stand
       | for some reason (maybe since its closer to a main road, the why
       | doesn't really matter). The city tells your neighbor that they
       | will be fined if they continue to have a lemonade stand in their
       | yard, so your neighbor parks their truck in front of the stand,
       | hiding it from the street.
       | 
       | In that analogy, cloudflare is the neighbor and your lemonade
       | stand is the pirate site. You aren't prevented from selling your
       | lemonade, but you can no longer freely use your neighbor's yard
       | unless you want to direct people around the truck ahead of time.
        
       | dlenski wrote:
       | In my opinion, this article does a _terrible_ job of explaining
       | the technical mechanisms by which these blocks have been
       | implemented, and the relationships between the entities involved.
       | 
       | Trying to piece together the details, here's my undewrstanding:
       | 
       | - Until recently, major British residential _ISPs_ were blocking
       | access to torrent /pirate/porn sites for their customers ("BT,
       | Virgin Media, Sky, TalkTalk, EE, and Plusnet account for the
       | majority of the UK's residential internet market")
       | 
       | - Cloudflare has recently been ordered by courts in the UK to
       | block access to these torrent/pirate/porn sites
       | 
       | - The reason that Cloudflare is involved is because many of these
       | sites use Cloudflare as a content delivery network. A CDN is
       | <waves hands> basically an application-layer distributed cache
       | that sits between end users' web browsers and the origin HTTP
       | servers that they're trying to access.
       | 
       | - Cloudflare geolocates clients connecting to its CDN. It
       | undoubtedly has many reasons to do this, besides _just_ court-
       | ordered geoblocking: these would include routing queries
       | efficiently within its globally distributed datacenters, DDoS
       | prevention, bot blocking, etc.
       | 
       | - Cloudflare's geolocation techniques are, unsurprisingly, more
       | sophisticated than just determining a country based on a client's
       | IP address.
       | 
       | If I've got all that right (do I???)... then the tl;dr is:
       | 
       | It used to be possible for UK users to circumvent the blocks of
       | these sites simply by using _any VPN_ to acquire a non-UK IP
       | address. Now the order to block these sites has been imposed on
       | Cloudflare, which plays a critical role as an intermediary in
       | distributing their content in a scalable way. For a variety of
       | reasons, some of which end-users probably approve of and others
       | not, Cloudflare uses more sophisticated techniques to geolocate
       | clients. So  "just use a VPN" is not enough to circumvent the
       | blocks anymore.
        
       | zalix45 wrote:
       | Is this affecting anyone else in Canada
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | This is a big deal. We knew since the beginning that replacing
       | the World-Wide Web with a centralized system would make it
       | vulnerable to government censorship, however well intentioned
       | Cloudflare's founders were. This is only the beginning.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-07-15 23:01 UTC)