[HN Gopher] Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival
        
       Author : overload119
       Score  : 159 points
       Date   : 2025-07-15 00:34 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.amirsharif.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.amirsharif.com)
        
       | jimbob45 wrote:
       | I can't abide by that last claim. AI has been able to fetch some
       | dead Microsoft documentation for me that I was not able to
       | otherwise find through the regular channels. The code would have
       | had to have looked very differently if not for AI.
        
         | robotic wrote:
         | Mixed bag for me. I spent a day running in circles working on a
         | github action based on lots of very bad info from chatGPT. I
         | also just reviewed a PR that allowed for remote function
         | execution. The dev that wrote the code has been very open about
         | their use of AI. He thought it was good because he wasnt
         | thinking.
        
         | hattmall wrote:
         | Internet archive is pretty good for old documentation. It's
         | very interesting what API features that are removed from new
         | versions and all documentation scrubbed but actually still
         | work.
        
         | munchler wrote:
         | I agree. AI doesn't make me a faster coder, but it helps me do
         | things that I wouldn't have been able to do at all otherwise.
        
       | bcoates wrote:
       | The idea of app timers seems like exactly the weird self-
       | negotiation alcoholics do around booze where they think mimicking
       | the habits of casual drinkers (on what is, to the casual, a
       | bender) will make them not an alcoholic anymore.
       | 
       | Yes, normies might have three margaritas on a Tuesday. Like, once
       | a quarter. Not every single day, and also not followed by a whole
       | lot more once you're loosened up.
       | 
       | Likewise, the reaction of a mentally stable person to TikTok is
       | like the reaction of a normal person to a casino full of slot
       | machines--discomfort and more than a little disgust. If you start
       | wagging your tail to that shit, there is no safe level and you
       | need to delete it all yesterday, app timers and clever little
       | boxes are making you worse.
        
         | pipsterwo wrote:
         | I find them really useful, I find youtube to be a good thing in
         | moderation. But its very helpful to have a timer forcing me to
         | thoughtfully use the time I've allocated.
        
           | GLdRH wrote:
           | The "UnTrap"-Add-On for Firefox can block the more
           | detrimental aspects of youtube, like shorts or the
           | recommendation of other videos. I have it configured so that
           | it always brings me directly to the "watch later"-playlist
           | and I never go to the main page.
        
             | Esophagus4 wrote:
             | FreeTube is also phenomenal for de-enshittifying (dis-
             | enshittifying?) the YouTube experience
        
         | mingus88 wrote:
         | I get what you are saying but it's 2025 and a mobile device is
         | basically required to operate in society today. Especially if
         | you want an active social life or to excel at work.
         | 
         | Nobody needs a margarita or any other addictive substance to
         | function in society (barring actual substances issues). So it's
         | a false equivalence to compare apps like this.
         | 
         | An example in my middle aged life is that my kids extra-
         | curriculars are all organized on WhatsApp. If I choose not to
         | have a Meta account then my kids suffer when I am out of the
         | loop on their events. Then of course all of the invites and
         | venues are on Facebook. And all the parents post their pics to
         | IG.
         | 
         | Because these apps are purposely designed to addict you, it is
         | a real sticky thing to have to dip your toes in without getting
         | sucked into a scrolling nightmare.
        
           | hattmall wrote:
           | Well he didn't say the phone, but the app. So instead of
           | using app timers just delete the app. The point is that you
           | find yourself having a problem with the app and regret it's
           | usage later then an app timer is the same as an alcoholic
           | having one drink, now if you are judicious with the app timer
           | and really do it ok. Same for an alcoholic, if you can
           | actually have one drink, then it's fine.
           | 
           | Some apps are addictive but have some reasonable
           | informational value. Some are just straight key bumps of
           | entertainment with an algorithmic comedown to keep you
           | looking for the next baggie.
           | 
           | I have the same situation you do about Facebook, but still
           | don't have the app on my phone. I just check the mobile site
           | and I was forced to install messenger. I have no need or
           | desire to install things like TikTok or Instagram, of the
           | hundreds of times people have sent me links to things on
           | those apps I've never come away with the feeling that it was
           | a value add.
        
             | GLdRH wrote:
             | It's a good idea to just uninstall some of these apps or
             | even accounts and see if you really miss them. I found that
             | not to be the case with Twitter and Facebook.
        
           | AlecSchueler wrote:
           | I do agree with your point about phones being necessary and
           | that complicating the addiction but A) people absolutely made
           | the same argument about alcohol in the past, that it was
           | necessary for a social life and B) they were critical of the
           | TikTok app specifically rather than phones as a whole in
           | general.
        
         | squigz wrote:
         | "Normal" people don't react that way to casinos.
        
           | lmm wrote:
           | Have you walked past one recently? Casinos used to have at
           | least some veneer of sophistication - polished wood, baize,
           | well-dressed croupiers - even if it was ultimately pretty
           | thin. Now the whole room looks like a giant kiddie noisemaker
           | toy.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | Aside from general infantilization, another theory: The old
             | status-signalling has moved on to something else, and past
             | generations' signals of upper-class (or at least _classier_
             | ) gambling are now obsolete, so nobody bothers projecting
             | them.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | I wish Chrome had timers for specific websites on mobile. I
         | hate the all-or-nothing Chrome timer, it's ridiculous and so
         | counter intuitive.
        
           | parpfish wrote:
           | I'd also like more control over chrome autocomplete.
           | 
           | Most of the time that I get sucked into a website, it's
           | because autocomplete and muscle memory got me there without
           | thinking. Every once in a while I'll clean out my history
           | cache and for a week or so I'll find myself on the page of
           | google search results for "re" or "fa"
        
             | brailsafe wrote:
             | Agreed, and their setting to turn it off entirely doesn't
             | work on Pixel at all.
        
             | pphysch wrote:
             | You can hold-press over an autocompleted URL to delete it,
             | which has much less friction than clearing your history.
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | > I wish Chrome had timers for specific websites on mobile.
           | 
           | Chrome does have this feature on mobile, but perhaps not on
           | your mobile.
        
           | pphysch wrote:
           | Pixel phones (at least) have this.
        
           | voidofpasswords wrote:
           | this is the sole reason i default to Firefox on mobile as it
           | allows extensions. And install a website restriction ext like
           | Leechblock [1].
           | 
           | [1] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/blaaajhemilngeef
           | fpb...
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | > Developers actually take up to 19% longer when coding with AI
       | than without it, but self-report that they were able to complete
       | tasks 20% faster.
       | 
       | this contradicts thought leaders in the field like Andrew Ng
        
         | unclad5968 wrote:
         | What is a thought leader?
        
           | leakycap wrote:
           | The person you are asking gave an example:
           | 
           | > thought leaders in the field like Andrew Ng
           | 
           | If its still cloudy, a "thought leader" is anyone recognized
           | as an authority in their field, whose ideas and insights
           | influence others and shape the direction of the hype cycle.
        
           | GLdRH wrote:
           | A Fuhrer for your thoughts
        
             | lbrito wrote:
             | Thought Czar is more in vogue
        
           | lubujackson wrote:
           | PR speak for marketer
        
         | sothatsit wrote:
         | This is a stat from a pretty interesting study:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44522772
         | 
         | I quite like it actually because although I do use AI, I think
         | you really do have to be careful about _how_ you use it to
         | avoid wasting more time than it saves when you run into a
         | problem and insist on getting the AI to fix it instead of doing
         | it yourself. It is very easy to fall into this trap of trying
         | to get AI to do everything, because our brains are hardwired to
         | avoid effort, and so we use it even when AI is not appropriate.
         | 
         | The biggest time saver for me with AI is to really try to avoid
         | the round-and-round with AI and instead just get AI to take the
         | first pass, maybe some small follow-ups, and then I take it
         | from there and complete the task manually. AI can be a
         | significant time-saver in that first pass at the problem, but
         | after that you can waste so much time trying to get AI to fix
         | something small that you could fix yourself in 5 minutes. And
         | this can be especially damaging because it is less effort to
         | use AI, so we don't necessarily notice when we are wasting time
         | due to our own cognitive biases, which I think this study does
         | a good job of pointing out.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | Pure nonsense (referring to your quote)
        
         | ykonstant wrote:
         | Please don't say "thought leader" unironically.
        
       | androng wrote:
       | I invested in META stock because I have an addiction to instagram
       | and the tracking is so good that the ads are actually tailored to
       | me and my desires so my CTR is i think 7% on average. contrast
       | with YouTube and Google and Twitter where I block all the ads
       | because the CTR is 0.00% because they are all garbage. Instagram
       | keeps showing me ads for expensive stuff I don't need but I do
       | want, like meal kits and fancy clothes
        
         | milofeynman wrote:
         | I've found the same. I actually enjoy Instagram ads. I despise
         | almost every other ad I can think of.
        
           | parpfish wrote:
           | You enjoy the ads, but do you enjoy the _products_?
           | 
           | I've seen so many ads that show a nice product, so I click
           | and it takes me to nice polished landing page, which leads to
           | a smooth checkout flow. But then the thing arrives and it's
           | garbage. I believe that there's an entire genre of niche-
           | marketed consumer goods that have been broken by
           | Campbell/Goodharts law because they've integrated the product
           | design and marketing so tightly that the product is designed
           | to optimize CTR and funnel conversions rather than being a
           | good at being the thing that it is.
        
             | ch4s3 wrote:
             | The joke is that Instagram is QVC for millennials, it must
             | be working on/for some people.
        
             | spondylosaurus wrote:
             | There's a particular Instagram ad my wife always sees for a
             | graphic tee with a design that we both love, but the vendor
             | selling it is (according to Reddit reviews) garbage. The
             | infuriating thing is that no one else seems to sell a shirt
             | with that particular design!
        
             | gs17 wrote:
             | Yeah, I've had one that seemed like exactly something I
             | wanted, turned out to be a scam, and they fucked it up
             | enough that PayPal actually refunded me.
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | When Facebook first came out, you could run an ad for $5 and
         | the ads are often things I happily clicked on.
         | 
         | Granted, it was by and for college students, so there was an
         | inherent selection bias. Still, Zuckerberg built his whole
         | empire on getting enough data about people to show ads that are
         | so targeted they feel relevant.
        
       | androng wrote:
       | I think I can obtain a triple benefit by using Cursor "ask" mode
       | instead of "agent" mode.
       | 
       | 1) I don't over-rely on the AI so I don't accidentally commit
       | bugs
       | 
       | 2) I can just put in a OpenAI API key pay-as-you-go instead of
       | subscribing to Cursor Pro monthly and getting screwed by SaaS fee
       | I don't use
       | 
       | 3) I actually learn what the AI says and add it to my long-term
       | memory instead of just having it write code for me in Agent mode
       | 
       | admittedly this only works for small tasks, for bigger edits I
       | think trying to learn everything the AI says is not really
       | scalable or at least it takes me much longer.
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | The biggest benefit to me (using Copilot instead of Cursor) is
         | that you can make sure that it understands the problem and the
         | solution is what you expected. If I want to see if it can make
         | a big change, I usually flow through "I need X, what are our
         | options" -> "Discuss option N more" -> "Ok, now you can do it".
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | > for bigger edits I think trying to learn everything the AI
         | says is not really scalable or at least it takes me much
         | longer.
         | 
         | Seems like this is the inherent difficulty in being a skillful
         | developer. Atleast in the context of non-trivial collaborative
         | projects, big edits that the person commiting doesn't
         | understand might as well be a diceroll, and imo those big edits
         | should really only be applied if the intent was to save the
         | time in writing it.
        
       | jampa wrote:
       | > Having your phone in the same room while doing cognitive work
       | reliably drops your memory, attention, and overall cognitive
       | performance.
       | 
       | That is my biggest problem with most Multifactor authentication.
       | I try to leave my phone in another room to focus, but needing the
       | phone authenticator for something always happens within two
       | hours.
       | 
       | I still don't know why apps think a device I carry in the streets
       | is safer than one I leave at home to do important transactions
       | like moving money, for example. Where I live, there are a lot of
       | cases of people being kidnapped and coerced to make payments
       | (which are instant), yet no Banking app allows you to do anything
       | without a phone.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | Most MFA solutions can use a FIDO token these days (unless the
         | admins are masochists), which you could keep plugged into your
         | device
        
           | jampa wrote:
           | Most banking apps here only allow their own app as a 2-factor
           | authentication, not even TOTP is allowed. (I think they make
           | it to increase user engagement.)
           | 
           | The worst one is Mercado Libre, which also requires you to
           | use your phone to "scan" your face every time you log in with
           | a new device. My friends were locked out due to having an
           | allergy or growing a beard. Nowadays, I don't even bother
           | with them... I just shop elsewhere.
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | This might defeat the purpose of MFA but I use an authenticator
         | like Ente that works on the desktop and syncs to and from your
         | phone.
        
           | cik wrote:
           | Thank you, I really appreciate this. I've been looking for
           | something exactly like this for ages, whilst trying to toss
           | my current solution.
        
             | satvikpendem wrote:
             | It's a great app, open source as well and works everywhere,
             | even on the web. I migrated all my MFA to Ente Auth.
        
           | bigDinosaur wrote:
           | It does not defeat the purpose as your MFA code/prompt as you
           | are still protected even if someone has your password. The
           | only slightly lesser protection is that if someone gains
           | local access to your machine/password manager then everything
           | is compromised vs. having your codes on your phone, but this
           | should be very, very far down the list of security concerns
           | for the majority of people.
           | 
           | The most realistic security threat for OTP's is that they can
           | be phished in a few ways which is the same problem if you're
           | using MFA stored on your desktop or phone. Hence the
           | preference for physical security keys / passkeys which are
           | impossible to phish.
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | > I still don't know why apps think a device I carry in the
         | streets is safer than one I leave at home to do important
         | transactions like moving money, for example. Where I live,
         | there are a lot of cases of people being kidnapped and coerced
         | to make payments (which are instant), yet no Banking app allows
         | you to do anything without a phone.
         | 
         | Muggings and kidnappings, as bad as they are, can't really be
         | done at scale.
         | 
         | That device a) has some kind of secure enclave, hopefully, and
         | more importantly b) restricts your ability to run arbitrary
         | code off the internet to the point that everyday users probably
         | can't do it. I don't like it, but they do it because it's
         | effective.
        
         | o11c wrote:
         | > I still don't know why apps think a device I carry in the
         | streets is safer [...]
         | 
         | Because MFA requirements have _never_ been about security, only
         | security theater. It 's the modern version of the "you must
         | change your password every 30 days" rule.
        
           | p0sixlang wrote:
           | Wat? If my laptop gets infected and the bad actor tries to
           | access my (insert account protected with MFA here), their
           | ability to do harm is limited by spreading things across two
           | devices.
        
           | notTooFarGone wrote:
           | wild take here.
           | 
           | MFA is like infinitely more secure than your username/pw that
           | Tim from accounting writes on his notes and reuses the same
           | password everywhere.
           | 
           | How is that not common knowledge?
        
           | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
           | On the contrary, single-factor authentication is generally
           | fine (MFA is still better, of course) if the single-factor is
           | an authenticator application or, better yet, a U2F hardware
           | key. If anything in modern web security is theater, it is the
           | password (and SMS MFA but that's because SMS is a joke to
           | takeover).
        
         | Dr_Birdbrain wrote:
         | What would your employer say if you said "I don't own a
         | smartphone. What alternatives exist?"
         | 
         | My current employer has a little nub on my laptop that I touch,
         | but my previous employer was big on making me check my
         | smartphone.
        
           | bigiain wrote:
           | I have at times carried a Firefox Phone and a Pinephone, and
           | deeply enjoyed asking work or other people who insisted I
           | needed to download an app to do (whatever) "Where I can get
           | your app for my phone? No, it's not an iPhone. No, it's not
           | an Android phone either."
           | 
           | (Lately I've been using "It's a work phone, I'm not able to
           | install apps on it, you'll need to run your app past our
           | corporate IT and Security team.")
        
             | jay_kyburz wrote:
             | If your work requires you to have a phone, they should
             | provide it to you. Call it your authentication brick.
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | Phone call, sms, email, physical fob, 2nd person.
        
           | aorloff wrote:
           | > My current employer has a little nub on my laptop that I
           | touch
           | 
           | This is for authentication ?
        
             | loloquwowndueo wrote:
             | It's called a yubikey. The slim version barely protrudes
             | from the usb port.
        
           | Scarblac wrote:
           | They'd give me a conpany smartphone.
        
         | joules77 wrote:
         | Don't use apps. The only apps on my phone are for
         | communication. Nothing else.
         | 
         | It's quite possible to live with websites.
        
           | p0sixlang wrote:
           | How are you delineating websites and apps, and can you
           | elaborate what exactly your hypothesis is here?
        
             | medstrom wrote:
             | I presume they mean it's a website when you type it into an
             | URL bar.
             | 
             | And that you don't ever add website bookmarks to the
             | homescreen, because that makes them similar to apps.
        
             | joules77 wrote:
             | I mean anything you have to "install" from an app store
             | tied to a phone OS. Sometimes if there is no other option I
             | install the app/complete the task and uninstall.
             | 
             | The app guys have normalized the idea that every "bright"
             | idea they get about how to exploit my data or waste my
             | attention, they have a right to push it out to my phone, if
             | I have installed their app.
             | 
             | So the stupid apps keep updating with new shit everyday
             | whether I need it or not.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | Monzo (UK) lets you set a limit on withdrawals when you are
         | away from home.
        
           | normie3000 wrote:
           | Does it also let you unset the limit?
        
             | RandomBacon wrote:
             | That reminds me of the effectiveness of texting codes as
             | MFA, when the password can also be reset by texting a
             | code...
             | 
             | Those services just have SFA (Single Factor
             | Authentication): the cell phone number (which can be stolen
             | remotely by social engineering).
        
             | tonyedgecombe wrote:
             | When you are at home. Also you can print a QR code which
             | you can use when away from home.
        
         | AndrewSwift wrote:
         | I have always assumed that this was done to drive app usage.
         | Companies hope that if you use an app regularly you'll keep it
         | on the home screen of your phone, and it becomes a foothold
         | into your most intimate device.
        
         | michael1999 wrote:
         | Apple keychain lets you store TOTP secrets, and Google Auth
         | will let you export the seeds.
         | 
         | That turns the laptop + fingerprint into your extra factors.
        
         | deepsun wrote:
         | Pretty much every password managers can store MFA (Bitwarden,
         | 1password). You only need smartphone to log in to the password
         | manager only once a day.
        
         | darqis wrote:
         | Bitwarden has desktop apps. And Vaultwarden hosts your own
         | instance. Also, Bitwarden has MFA. But yes I agree, some have a
         | specific kind of MFA, like Google. I hate Google's MFA. You
         | have to get up and get your phone to press something. I hate
         | being forced to use the phone.
        
       | padolsey wrote:
       | > Using ChatGPT on cognitive tasks can reduce your brain
       | connectivity by up to 50% and reduce your ability to recall
       | information about the task by 8x.
       | 
       | Argh people keep referencing this study as Gospel. It has not
       | been peer-reviewed. Its methodology has a number of concerning
       | confounders. It's a tiny sample with a narrow contrived task
       | domain. And the very premise of the study is misframed. The
       | implication that 'brain activity' is a positive outcome does not
       | follow. Brain connectivity might be analagous to inefficiency as
       | opposed to the reported 'engagement' or 'cognitive debt'.
        
         | ch4s3 wrote:
         | Im never surprised when someone prattling on about dopamine
         | also leans on a bad study to make a spurious point.
        
           | padolsey wrote:
           | Yep it's always a bit cute and funny, when you consider the
           | absolute necessity of dopamine in basically every
           | functionally relevant neural activation. Talk to a
           | parkinson's patient about your 'dopamine=bad' fluff. Ugh.
           | They may as well just have titled it "Protecting My Attention
           | At The {Insert Arbitrary Hormone or Neurotransmission
           | Chemical} Carnival"....
        
             | bigiain wrote:
             | > They may as well just have titled it "Protecting My
             | Attention At The {Insert Arbitrary Hormone or
             | Neurotransmission Chemical} Carnival"....
             | 
             | I disagree. I am absolutely certain that the vast majority
             | of the readers here would have known in the context of that
             | headline exactly what "The Dopamine Carnival" meant,
             | without needing any specific positive or negative
             | implications about dopamine in general or it's actual
             | biochemical mechanisms. It's blatantly obviously about
             | social media and mobile apps that are intentionally
             | designed to manipulate your brain and its reward system.
        
               | padolsey wrote:
               | Ofc the title got its point across, but I'd argue to hold
               | ourselves to higher standards of veracity. That's all.
        
         | llmthrow103 wrote:
         | I agree that it's not a great study, but I also don't want to
         | find out too late that it wasn't a good idea to outsource my
         | thinking to ChatGPT.
        
           | vineyardmike wrote:
           | The study wasn't great but don't outsource your thinking.
           | 
           | The study (if we assume it was good) told students the
           | objective of their task was to generate a factual essay about
           | topic X. The study then measured how much they learned about
           | the topic at the end, but the students who used ChatGPT
           | "learned" less and remembered their own essay less despite an
           | equally passable essay. I want the alternative version of the
           | study where the students are told the essay is practice, and
           | their success will be graded on how much they've learned
           | about the topic.
           | 
           | I imagine you could conduct a similar study challenging
           | students to complete math tasks with and without a calculator
           | and then ask them how much of their multiplication tables
           | they've learned afterwards.
           | 
           | If you want to learn and grow as a person, along some
           | dimension, you need to practice. Growing requires repetition
           | and reflection and to experience the feedback loop of
           | improvement. Outsource thinking for whatever task you don't
           | want to do when the only result you care about is the only
           | outcome. Don't outsource practice and learning if you want to
           | improve. Only you can make the decision on when each
           | situation applies in your day. Maybe you want to be better at
           | some task at your job, but maybe you just need to get through
           | the task and move on.
        
             | djtango wrote:
             | Speaking about not outsourcing practice reminds me of the
             | physical analogue...
             | 
             | I have heard about people talk about "farmer's strength" to
             | reference a very natural functional strength that is earned
             | by the gruelling and diverse physical demands of doing farm
             | labour for a lifetime.
             | 
             | Now people have invented various training regimes to try to
             | reproduce that kind of strength outside of the original
             | farming environment.
             | 
             | Edit - As an aside, it just occurred to me that I am both a
             | functional strength and functional programming proponent
             | (facepalm). Perhaps in the future after people seeking to
             | strengthen their minds through via mental gymnastics, FP
             | will see a renaissance
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | It's kind of the opposite of strength training regimens,
               | it's more like people saying "Why would I pick up the
               | weight by hand when forklifts exist? When, in the real
               | world, when doing a job, am I going to be expected to
               | pick up dumbbells by hand lol? I'll just use a forklift
               | every time."
        
         | jredwards wrote:
         | Same for the reference to developers taking longer to complete
         | tasks with AI. That's absolutely not the finding of that study.
        
         | viccis wrote:
         | Looks like another ChatGPT victim here folks.
        
         | kortilla wrote:
         | Sure, but "computer does all of the logical inference by hand
         | and it turns out your brain isn't needed" is awfully a big
         | confirmation bias in favor of people who have left LLMs work in
         | their favor.
        
         | satyrun wrote:
         | I am sure studies would find I use my hamstrings and quadriceps
         | less when driving than when walking too.
         | 
         | The problem is if you are driving a car to go the same speed
         | and distance as walking then it is missing the point.
        
         | thrawa8387336 wrote:
         | So what, ChatGPT is the new weed? One critical statement draws
         | out all the addicts in defense?
        
       | crtified wrote:
       | The exact mechanisms will be individual to the person.
       | 
       | But the broad point is valid - distraction and subversion of
       | attention is very high in today's society. Some people are
       | overwhelmed and need to take steps.
        
       | fennec-posix wrote:
       | If you work in a SCIF you don't have to worry about your phone
       | being a distraction
        
         | normie3000 wrote:
         | Great point. So how do you do 2FA? Hardware tokens?
        
           | fennec-posix wrote:
           | Smart Cards
        
       | mortsnort wrote:
       | Tik Tok is obvious brain rot, but what if one's time at the
       | dopamine carnival is spent consuming "brain-growth" content?
       | Phones essentially put all human knowledge at our fingertips,
       | where is the line of diminishing or negative returns when trying
       | to consume it?
        
         | spaqin wrote:
         | Popular science videos is still filler; I'd be inclined agree
         | if you were scrolling MIT lectures (and watching them in their
         | entirety), but how much of actual knowledge (and not random
         | tidbits) do you retain from short form videos?
        
           | mortsnort wrote:
           | Where is popular science videos coming from? Blogs,
           | Wikipedia, research papers, Substacks, newspapers, magazines,
           | ChatGPT, etc.
        
             | satyrun wrote:
             | I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a
             | short form video in conveying information but what
             | information in this context can be compressed down to fit?
             | 
             | How much can you really learn from even a 30 second Feynman
             | lecture?
        
         | YuukiRey wrote:
         | 99% of the time it is consumption without ever utilizing the
         | knowledge for any creative endeavor . And without application
         | the knowledge will quickly fade and you'll find yourself
         | watching the same 10min video on statistics 101 for the 3rd
         | time, because you keep forgetting.
         | 
         | It's still mindless consumption if you don't interact with the
         | material in any meaningful way (follow up questions,
         | application, try to refute it, evaluate a hypothesis you had
         | before watching it, ...)
        
           | cgriswald wrote:
           | Whether your mind is engaged or not seems unrelated to the
           | type of video. As a writer of fiction, even a 'mindless'
           | video made for entertainment can send my mind reeling through
           | possibilities, relationships, and connections I'd never
           | thought about before, but I think that's just a quibble over
           | wording.
           | 
           | You always lose what you don't use over a long enough time
           | window and in proportion to how much you used it when you did
           | use it. Everything that is true about this 10 minute video is
           | true about a college course. You just retain the college
           | course for longer because (presumably) you've spent more time
           | in class than a 10 minutes video and you've done your
           | homework. But if you don't use it after college, there's a
           | strong chance you've forgotten the details.
           | 
           | Sometimes it's just important to know a thing exists, what it
           | can be used for, and roughly how it is used. Everything else
           | can be learned or refreshed when you need it.
           | 
           | Suppose you've watched that stats 101 video but didn't follow
           | up. You now know:
           | 
           | - The broad strokes of stats 101 even if you don't have
           | perfect recall on the details.
           | 
           | - What it can be used for.
           | 
           | - Whether the particular video is worth watching when and if
           | you _do_ need to use it.
           | 
           | Initial exposure is important. A claim could be made that if
           | _nothing_ is ever done with it, it is a waste; but how does
           | someone without any knowledge know enough to decide whether
           | they should go further with it or not?
        
             | wellwellwell2 wrote:
             | > ('Wrongquote':) Whether your mind is engaged or not seems
             | unrelated to any video.
             | 
             |  _heck_...damn... that was a lot of fun in the Job 's area,
             | steve Jobs official presented his 1st Ipad showing an
             | interactive Book for children but also adults, and for sure
             | there was something to learn.
             | 
             | > But... Does it also let you unset any limits?
             | 
             |  _Nah_ they never released any well known interactive books
             | as far as i know, so i didn 't bought that ipad. But was
             | interested in the 'screen-only'-technology since 2003
             | (bought my first tablet PC around 2005)...
             | 
             | A few days ago, there was a topic about the book
             | 'neuromancer' could you even imagine such a book as
             | interactive (not a game) ?
             | 
             | It may took years and a hell of a crowd to finish something
             | like that satisfying enough to get only a niche of people.
             | 
             | HINT: The Message of the Book (the Punk-Part) was about:
             | 'Everybody needs money (Products) so you have to get a
             | job.'
             | 
             | Quoting more "nonsens" but remarkable;
             | 
             | It's quite possible to live with websites. Nothing else.
             | 
             | Clue: Apps let you set a limit on withdrawals when you are
             | away from home.
             | 
             | (edited: found some typos^^) You enjoyed the ads, but do
             | you enjoy the products designed to optimize Clickrates and
             | funnel conversions?
             | 
             | And if it was too OT, think just a random person typing
             | something...never mind...
             | 
             |  btw: google didn't show, what does that mean - it has more
             | speculated 'space' one screen than the regular charsetting,
             | tinyer chars i had known and seen before...but... ??
        
       | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
       | > Developers actually take up to 19% longer when coding with AI
       | than without it, but self-report that they were able to complete
       | tasks 20% faster.
       | 
       | IF TRUE and taken at face value, surely it could have nothing to
       | do with AI coding being so new everyone just figuring how to best
       | use a new tool at all once.
       | 
       | No no, best to right out the gate compare the new tool to the
       | decades old process.
        
       | specproc wrote:
       | Had my phone left uncharged for the best part of a week recently.
       | Barely needed it.
       | 
       | It's my laptop that eats my brain.
        
       | wzdd wrote:
       | The "surprising results" are a bit factoid-ey and if taken at
       | face value are far more shocking than they turned out to be (I
       | very much appreciate the references so I could check this):
       | 
       | "You can reverse up to 10 years of age-related cognitive decline
       | simply by blocking mobile data on your phone for 2 weeks": the
       | linked study says that it's _attention span_ that is improved
       | equivalent to being 10 years younger, as measured immediately
       | after the study ends (only)
       | 
       | "Using ChatGPT on cognitive tasks can reduce your brain
       | connectivity by up to 50%": this is measured using an EEG, so is
       | measuring involvement of multiple brain regions while doing a
       | task. Basically your brain doesn't have to work as hard at the
       | task if you're using an LLM. It's not, you know, your connectome
       | atrophying.
        
         | senko wrote:
         | > Basically your brain doesn't have to work as hard at the task
         | if you're using an LLM
         | 
         | That's kind of the point of most tech. Consider:
         | 
         | "In another eye-opening study, researchers have conclusively
         | shown that your muscles atrophy if you're using a forklift
         | instead of your back!"
        
       | blotfaba wrote:
       | > Using ChatGPT on cognitive tasks can reduce your brain
       | connectivity by up to 50% and reduce your ability to recall
       | information about the task by 8x.
       | 
       | I hate this thing. I don't think it added anything to this
       | article to conflate this "study" - did no one stop to think your
       | brain isn't firing on all cylinders when the AI is doing the work
       | because that's what the whole point of AI is?
       | 
       | It's supposed to free up your mind to attend to other matters.
       | 
       | We're not building muscles like we used to when we use tractors
       | and heavy machinery instead of building houses brick by brick by
       | hand either. So what?? Attend a gym and read something technical
       | and dense.
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | It's really hard to take any of his claims seriously when the
       | article title itself is leading with 1960s old wives tales about
       | dopamine neurochemistry.
        
       | rglover wrote:
       | My wife and I have been talking about noticing the general
       | cognitive decline in people we interact with. We both started to
       | notice that people have been getting a little bit...goofy
       | (spacing out, not really reciprocating communication, hyper-
       | limited attention spans, etc).
       | 
       | We both land on a combination of social media and economic
       | effects (people stressed to make ends meet leading to an anxious
       | mind). AI is on the lower-end of our concerns.
        
         | QuantumGood wrote:
         | You say "people", any filters? Young/old, working/not working.
         | I notice changes in each new generation that are at least
         | cognitive adjacent.
        
           | jay_kyburz wrote:
           | My partner was telling me about the Gen Z stare last night.
           | Apparently when you try and talk to them in the workplace
           | they don't know how to respond so they will just stare back
           | at you.
        
             | Traubenfuchs wrote:
             | And you know what your partner telling you about the gen-z
             | stare story means?
             | 
             | They are a social media trend addict, just like anyone
             | else. Because the gen-z stare is a new meme that bubbled up
             | to the top of social media infinite scrool content in the
             | last week.
        
               | jay_kyburz wrote:
               | And here I am bubbling it up to the nerdiest social media
               | of all! :)
        
         | lesinski wrote:
         | I am a party magician in my spare time -- I walk around parties
         | and show short bits of eye-catching magic to guests.
         | 
         | I have noticed that some young people (~18-30 yo) lose
         | attention within as little as 5 seconds. I could have someone
         | choose a card and in that amount of time, they have spaced out
         | -- no phone, just staring blankly. I have two rubber bands
         | examined and by the time they are handed back, someone is on
         | their phone.
         | 
         | The most annoying part is that -- because I construct my
         | routines for minimal attention spans -- within 2 more seconds,
         | something magic happens and everyone who's paying attention
         | reacts. And the 1-2 young people who zoned out start panicking
         | about the FOMO, "what happened?" "do it again!" Sorry folks!
        
           | mitchell_h wrote:
           | google "gen z stare". This is such a commonly observed thing
           | that it got a name, meme, tiktok sound, and news articles.
        
             | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
             | For what it's worth, the nature of the stare seems to be in
             | dispute:
             | 
             | > With this, a lot of Gen Z "clapped back," if you will
             | (this essentially means they rebutted), saying that this
             | stare comes from listening to Boomers or Millennials ask
             | them obvious questions or start demanding things from them
             | that warrant a look that says, "Are you actually serious
             | right now?" or "I don't get paid enough for this."
             | 
             | https://www.insidehook.com/internet/gen-z-stare (first
             | result after searching "gen z stare" on DDG)
             | 
             | Not saying some people don't get bored and start looking at
             | their phones _way_ too fast (uh, like drivers at a stop
             | light? that 's not limited to gen z), just that there might
             | be another reason for any given blank stare.
        
       | anothereng wrote:
       | everyone's becoming an addict. Few people will avoid digital
       | addiction
        
       | devmor wrote:
       | > I don't rely on "willpower" or "discipline" - I try to design
       | each day with intention
       | 
       | This point is the most important callout to me. This is a
       | macrocosm of how I focus on tasks as a person with already
       | disastrous dopamine interactions (severe ADHD).
       | 
       | I was actually thinking about this last night, when I noticed
       | that I approached the self-checkout at the grocery store with
       | more items than the two people who'd been there before me, and
       | left before either of them had finished checking out despite not
       | being in any particular rush.
       | 
       | When I'm going about my day, I am thinking about the actions I'm
       | going to take, deliberating on them and deciding my intent prior
       | to when I will need to execute it. Not to a significant degree,
       | but to go back to my grocery store anecdote: when I was waiting
       | in line I was preparing myself to execute these tasks:
       | 
       | 1. Set my re-usable bags in the bagging area.
       | 
       | 2. Respond to the prompt asking me if I have placed bags there.
       | 
       | 3. Enter my loyalty code.
       | 
       | 4. Scan the rigid and heavier items first, placing them in the
       | bottom of the bags.
       | 
       | 5. Scan the lighter, crushable items last.
       | 
       | 6. Select my payment method.
       | 
       | 7. Tap my payment card, and respond to the PIN prompts.
       | 
       | 8. Retrieve my bags and receipt.
       | 
       | This sounds like a lot, looking at it. Maybe it was early on, but
       | now this is such a natural part of my cognitive load that I
       | didn't even specifically notice that I do it until I wondered
       | about the speed difference I observed.
       | 
       | To further reinforce the hypothesis, I thought about the most
       | recent times that I did something completely unstructured with no
       | idea what I would have to do (or at least no solid plan due to
       | the event being controlled by other people) and concluded that I
       | was generally slower to act and felt less able to respond to
       | stimuli appropriately.
       | 
       | This is all to say, given these observations and the initial
       | recognition of what I use as an ADHD-coping strategy, I wonder if
       | the overuse of social media and similar stimuli effectively
       | reproduces the negative aspects of ADHD on otherwise
       | "normal"-brained individuals.
        
         | pirates wrote:
         | Is this an ADHD coping strategy? I'm not trying to second
         | guess, I'm actually very intrigued because the way you
         | described your thought process is very similar to mine, but
         | I've never been tested or diagnosed.
         | 
         | In any case thanks, this will help me in the future I think.
        
       | ladino wrote:
       | a gamechanger for me was to set my device to grey:
       | https://trendscout.com/gogrey/
        
       | Uehreka wrote:
       | > They call it centaur guardrails because it's AI on the bottom,
       | human on the top. Nice.
       | 
       | Did you just define a term, act like it already existed, then
       | compliment yourself for coming up with it?
        
         | overload119 wrote:
         | It was directly from the study that I had linked. I was
         | complimenting them.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | > I stumbled on this elegant [lockable] box you put phones into
       | and it blocks all radio communications.
       | 
       | If you truly want to block yourself from using your phone (or
       | similar) for some amount of time, the Kitchen Safe time-lock
       | boxes are great. They don't look particularly elegant, nor do
       | they block radio communication, but their unique feature is that
       | you'd have to irreversibly physically break them to access
       | whatever you locked inside before the timer has elapsed. There
       | are many similar products, which however usually have an
       | "emergency" mechanism to preempt the timer, which defeats the
       | purpose.
        
       | darqis wrote:
       | Man, instead of going to some discord channel, asking waiting for
       | some human to respond, if they do, then potentially misunderstand
       | the question, maybe even cause drama, or using a search engine to
       | crawl, tediously through SO and Reddit posts, because Google
       | favors those 2, or wading through pages of potentially badly
       | written documentation, I just turn on github and ask copilot. And
       | it responds in most cases, and I can even chat with it ask for
       | alternatives or better approaches to my problems.
       | 
       | And then I needed a logo for my new service I'm building. Search
       | for AI image generator, input the prompt and a few seconds later
       | I have my really cool image. Time saved -> infinity.
       | 
       | But I also thought, all this problem solving done by the
       | machines, leaves my brain unemployed, well not exactly, I can
       | focus on solving issues that usually take hours to solve and get
       | on with it. However those hard nuts are no longer cracked by me,
       | and I focus on the lighter cognitive load.
       | 
       | Probably not good, but idk, I don't have the luxury to be picky,
       | being an unemployed freelancer on social security
        
       | _rpxpx wrote:
       | Articles like this always start with such radical criticism, and
       | end with such dismally modest proposals: "try not to look at your
       | phone for 1 hour after you wake up", "before you pick up your
       | phone, try counting to 100 first", "move 'instagram' away from
       | your homescreen", etc. What about just getting rid of your
       | smartphone? Who really needs anything beyond calls and text
       | messages...? You can get a GPS map, and a camera. Complete
       | freedom is right there for the taking.
        
       | mrbluecoat wrote:
       | > I stumbled on this elegant box you put phones into and it
       | blocks all radio communications.
       | 
       | $249 for a Faraday cage? You can find $10 Faraday bags on
       | Amazon..
        
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