[HN Gopher] Does showing seconds in the system tray actually use...
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       Does showing seconds in the system tray actually use more power?
        
       Author : LorenDB
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2025-07-13 17:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.lttlabs.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.lttlabs.com)
        
       | Jaxan wrote:
       | I hate these kind of "saves power" things in windows settings.
       | The OS itself pings home so often, sends network request for
       | everything you do, shows ads on the login screen, makes
       | screenshots (for Recall), Edge sends contents from web forms for
       | "AI". And now it is my responsibility to disable showing seconds
       | in the taskbar??? If microsoft really wants to be green, windows
       | shouldn't do all these wasteful things!
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | Both things can be true/desirable at the same time.
         | 
         | If, as tested, this setting makes a double-digit percentage
         | difference, I'm glad Microsoft exposes it in the UI. I'd also
         | be glad if they didn't do as much weird stuff on their user's
         | devices as they do.
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | > _If, as tested, this setting makes a double-digit
           | percentage difference, I 'm glad Microsoft exposes it in the
           | UI._
           | 
           | I'd rather them write more performant code. This feels like
           | your car having the option to burn motor oil to show a more
           | precise clock on the dash; you don't get kudos for adding an
           | off-switch for that.
        
             | minitech wrote:
             | > I'd rather them write more performant code.
             | 
             | In keeping with the theme of the comment you're replying
             | to, writing better-performing code and providing
             | performance options are not mutually exclusive. Both are
             | good ideas.
             | 
             | > This feels like your car having the option to burn motor
             | oil to show a more precise clock on the dash; you don't get
             | kudos for adding an off-switch for that.
             | 
             | (Sounds more like you're arguing that it should be forced
             | off instead of being an option? Reasonable take in this
             | case, but not the same argument.)
        
               | jjj123 wrote:
               | No, I think they're arguing that showing seconds in the
               | system tray shouldn't be so inefficient that turning it
               | off gives back double-digit percentage energy savings.
               | 
               | I think we all agree there needs to be some additional
               | power draw for the seconds feature, but it's unclear how
               | much power is truly necessary vs this just being a poor
               | implementation.
        
               | ants_everywhere wrote:
               | there's a dramatic increase in how frequently you
               | interrupt the CPU to update the display. That is true at
               | the OS level no matter how efficient you make the second
               | display code.
        
               | morganherlocker wrote:
               | It shouldn't take any noticable power/cycles to
               | accomplish this task. Having flags for "performance"
               | littered through the codebase and UI is a classic failure
               | mode that leads to a janky slow base performance. "Do
               | always and inhibit when not needed".
        
             | aksss wrote:
             | Better analogy would be reducing your MPGs (fuel
             | efficiency) to show a more precise clock, and arguably we
             | all make that sacrifice to get CarPlay.
             | 
             | Energy isn't free.
             | 
             | Even if they wrote more performant code, it would just mean
             | less relative loss of energy to show seconds but still loss
             | compared to not showing seconds.
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | Of course it's not free - TANSTAAFL - but it should
               | certainly not increase energy consumption by 13%!
        
             | orangecat wrote:
             | _This feels like your car having the option to burn motor
             | oil to show a more precise clock on the dash_
             | 
             | I actively don't want to see seconds; the constant updating
             | is distracting. It should be an option even if there were
             | no energy impact. (Ditto for terminal cursor blinking).
        
               | p_ing wrote:
               | ...Did you not see that it is an option, off by default?
        
               | GLdRH wrote:
               | Doesn't the blinking cursor tell you it's ready for input
               | and not still running the previous command? Seems useful.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | > I'd rather them write more performant code.
             | 
             | My expectations of Microsoft software aren't terribly high.
             | I'd say Windows is performant (ie it works about as well as
             | I expect).
        
             | daveoc64 wrote:
             | It's really an on switch.
             | 
             | The feature is off by default in Windows 11 and was not
             | offered in any previous non-beta Windows version.
        
               | anonymars wrote:
               | But you could open the clock flyout and see it on demand.
               | Now it's all-or-nothing (unless they changed it, again)
               | 
               | (Have I mentioned how much I loathe Windows 11?)
        
           | Xylakant wrote:
           | The test setting is important here - the test is on an
           | otherwise idle machine. This means that the update ensures
           | that some thread wakes on a timer every second which may
           | explain the large drop. This test is interesting, but not
           | very representative of a real world usage scenario. It'll be
           | interesting to compare it to the results of the other test
           | they running, where they keep a video running in the
           | background.
        
             | Delk wrote:
             | I'm still a little curious of what's causing the increase
             | in power use. A single additional wakeup per second should
             | not have a two-digit percentage impact on power use when
             | even an idle machine is probably going to have dozens of
             | wakeups per second anyway. I wonder if updating the seconds
             | display somehow causes _lots_ of extra wakeups instead.
        
           | Delk wrote:
           | Mentioning that some setting uses more power can be useful
           | and desirable. I think Jaxan might be irked by "energy
           | recommendations" Windows gives you in power & battery
           | settings, though. It suggests applying "energy saving
           | recommendations" to lower your carbon footprint, and while I
           | absolutely support energy saving, I also find those
           | "recommendations" obnoxious.
           | 
           | The recommendations suggest, among other things, switching to
           | power-saving mode, turning on dark mode, setting screen
           | brightness for energy efficiency, and auto-suspending and
           | turning the screen off after 3 minutes.
           | 
           | Power-saving mode saves little at least on most laptops but
           | has a significant performance impact, dark mode only saves
           | power on LED displays (LCDs have a slight inverse effect),
           | and both dark/light mode and screen brightness should be set
           | based on ergonomics, not based on saving three watts.
           | 
           | When these kinds of recommendations are given to the consumer
           | for "lowering your carbon footprint", with a green leaf
           | symbol for impact, while Microsoft's data centres keep
           | spending enormous amounts of power on data analysis, I find
           | it hard to see that as anything more than greenwashing.
        
         | ctoth wrote:
         | I had some very technical friends be incredibly surprised by
         | the Edge form thing, I think that is not sufficiently called
         | out!
         | 
         | They send any text you type in a form to their AI cloud and
         | hold on to it for 30 days.
         | 
         | Any form.
         | 
         | On any website.
         | 
         | What the actual fuck?
        
           | smokel wrote:
           | This is only true if you enable extended spell checks, which
           | makes _some_ sense. By default, no form data is sent to
           | Microsoft AFAIK. Note that the same holds for Google Chrome.
        
             | atq2119 wrote:
             | In what world does holding the user's private data for 30
             | days make sense for a _spell checker_? Even sending the
             | data at all is sad. We 've had offline spell checking for
             | decades.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | For the same reason Grammarly does it too, I'd assume.
        
               | justsomehnguy wrote:
               | To track when the user corrects it. Otherwise you can't
               | adapt if somehow the correction is not what the user
               | wanted.
               | 
               | If there are _a bunch_ of these corrections you know
               | something is wrong there. IMO 30 days is quite modest and
               | if this is properly anonymized..
               | 
               | Edit: dear HN user who decided to silently downvote - you
               | could do better by actually voicing your opinion
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | > dear HN user who decided to silently downvote - you
               | could do better by actually voicing your opinion
               | 
               | Sure, I'll bite. Let's address the obvious issue first:
               | what you're saying is speculation. I can only provide my
               | own speculation in return, and then you might or might
               | not find it agreeable, or at least claim either way. And
               | there will be nothing I can do about it. I generally
               | don't find this valuable or productive, and I did
               | disagree with yours, hence my silent downvote.
               | 
               | But since you're explicitly asking for other people's
               | speculation, here I go. Advanced "spellchecking"
               | necessitates the usage of AI, as natural languages cannot
               | ever be fully processed using just hard coded logic. This
               | is not an opinion, you learn this when taking formal
               | languages class at university. It arises from formal
               | logic only being able to wrangle formal logic abiding
               | things, which natural languages aren't (else they'd be
               | called formal languages).
               | 
               | What the opinion is, and the speculation is, is that this
               | is what the feature kicks off when it sends over input
               | data to MS's servers for advanced "spellchecking", much
               | like what I speculate Grammarly does too. Either that, or
               | these services have some proprietary language engine that
               | they'd rather keep on their own premises, because why put
               | your moat out there if you don't strictly have to.
               | 
               | Technologically speaking, at this point it might be
               | possible to do this locally, on-device now. This further
               | didn't use to be the case I believe (although I do not
               | have sources on this), and so this would be another
               | reason why you'd send people's inputs to the shadow
               | realm.
        
               | demarq wrote:
               | It's hard to read writing packed with defensive clauses.
               | 
               | Better to say what you need to say. Leave the defense for
               | the occasion someone misunderstood what you meant to say.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | It's further pretty hard to write like this, but I still
               | prefer it over getting trivially checkmated by ill
               | meaning people, and over being misinterpreted silently
               | and that causing issues downstream. It's at this point an
               | instinctual defense mechanism, that I've grown to
               | organically develop in the low-trust environments that
               | are forums like this.
        
               | throw10920 wrote:
               | I 100% agree with the principle, but (regrettably) in
               | practice you can't do this in a lot of places where the
               | community is critical (which isn't a bad thing by itself)
               | but doesn't call out/downvote/moderate bad criticism
               | (which _is_ bad).
               | 
               | I can't count the number of times on HN that I've seen
               | responses to posts that took advantage of the poster not
               | writing defensively to emotionally attack them in ways
               | that absolutely break the HN guidelines, and weren't
               | flagged or downvoted. And on other sites, like Reddit,
               | it's just the norm.
               | 
               | The defensive writing will continue until morals improve.
        
               | Xorlev wrote:
               | This is _often_ (though not always) blanket statement.
               | 
               | Logs are always generated, and logs include some amount
               | of data about the user, if only environmental.
               | 
               | It's quite plausible that the spellchecker does _not_
               | store your actual user data, but information about the
               | request, or error logging includes more UGC than
               | intended.
               | 
               | Note: I don't have any insider knowledge about their
               | spellcheck API, but I've worked on similar systems which
               | have similar language for little more than basic request
               | logging.
        
             | perching_aix wrote:
             | Reminds me to a video I saw on YouTube from the "PC
             | Security Channel", who was utterly flabbergasted that the
             | Start Menu would send all keypresses inputted into its
             | search bar to MS.
             | 
             | They had searching on the web enabled... Pretty hard to
             | search the web using Bing without sending along a search
             | term.
        
               | lucumo wrote:
               | Stuff like that and the one you replied to are why I
               | stopped caring. The outrage is so often complete and
               | utter nonsense that my default response is disbelief.
        
               | freeone3000 wrote:
               | It came enabled by default. It is not as if this setting
               | was searched for, then enabled, then had some unintended
               | consequence - taskbar searches used to _not_ search the
               | internet, then they _did_.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | Which would be a perfectly fine thing to take issue with.
               | It just also wouldn't be quite as eye-catching as
               | misleadingly portraying the thing as now being a
               | keylogger.
        
             | foolswisdom wrote:
             | What setting is this? I can only find "Enable machine
             | learning powered autofill suggestions" which seems to have
             | defaulted to on.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | Here you go, from the horse's mouth:
               | https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/learning-
               | center/improve...
               | 
               | Note that this is from 2023. Their legal docs, last
               | updated in 2024, claim a bit different:
               | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/microsoft-
               | edge/priva...
               | 
               | > By default, Microsoft Edge provides spelling and
               | grammar checking using Microsoft Editor. When using
               | Microsoft Editor, Microsoft Edge sends your typed text
               | and a service token to a Microsoft cloud service over a
               | secure HTTPS connection. The service token doesn't
               | contain any user-identifiable information. A Microsoft
               | cloud service then processes the text to detect spelling
               | and grammar errors in your text. _All your typed text
               | that 's sent to Microsoft is deleted immediately after
               | processing occurs. No data is stored for any period of
               | time._
        
           | Teever wrote:
           | Something I heard a while back but have never had confirmed
           | is that the Nvidia driver sends the content of every window
           | title to Nvidia.
           | 
           | Does anyone know if that is true?
        
             | morkalork wrote:
             | There was a smart tv that did that with the titles of any
             | media played too wasn't there?
        
             | svnt wrote:
             | This was when you had to create an account for GeForce
             | Experience and they started sending crash stats.
             | 
             | Some people checked it with wireshark at the time and
             | didn't find anything other than what was stated. [0]
             | 
             | 0: https://gamersnexus.net/industry/2672-geforce-
             | experience-dat...
        
           | IgorPartola wrote:
           | Whoa how is this not all over the news at all times?
        
             | NewJazz wrote:
             | People are tired of hearing about it. They don't feel like
             | they can do anything about it.
        
             | saparaloot wrote:
             | The caring cohort has mortages and kids
        
               | jbaber wrote:
               | And Linux for desktop is finally easy enough for those of
               | us with both.
               | 
               | Microsoft ordered me to buy a new computer for Win 11, so
               | I took said kids to Microcenter, asked for a machine
               | whose specs could play a particular steam game on Linux,
               | returned to my mortgage, installed Ubuntu and haven't
               | given Windows a second thought in months.
        
           | Lu2025 wrote:
           | Any form meaning passwords too?
        
             | perching_aix wrote:
             | Looked into it, the answer seems like it can be both a yes
             | or a no, depending on the website and user actions.
             | 
             | By default, when you implement a form that takes a
             | password, you (the developer) are going to be using the
             | "input" HTML element with the type "password". This element
             | is exempt from spellchecking, so no issues there.
             | 
             | However, many websites also implement a temporary password
             | reveal feature. To achieve this, one would typically change
             | the type of the "input" element to "text" when clicking the
             | reveal button, thereby unintentionally allowing
             | spellchecking.
             | 
             | You (the developer) can explicitly mark an element to be
             | ineligible for spellchecking by setting the "spellchecking"
             | attribute to "false", remediating this quirk:
             | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
             | US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...
             | 
             | You (the developer) can of course also just use a different
             | approach for implementing a password reveal feature.
             | 
             | As the MDN docs remark, this infoleak vector is known as
             | "spelljacking".
        
           | IlikeKitties wrote:
           | > Use Windows
           | 
           | > Expect Privacy
           | 
           | > Don't get Privacy
           | 
           | SuprisedPikatchu.jpg
        
           | tspivey wrote:
           | I was surprised by this. I don't use Edge much, and I don't
           | remember being asked about it.
        
         | ape4 wrote:
         | I would check:                   - Don't show ads (saves power)
         | - Don't call home (saves power)
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | This might be considered if they ever find out how shitty
           | Windows can get before people actually stop buying computers
           | with it.
        
             | mouse_ wrote:
             | As long as Red Hat keeps embracing and extending free
             | desktop, and Apple keeps disallowing standard features like
             | native Vulkan (Mac is not for games I get it but come on,
             | please?), people will either keep using Windows or, more
             | likely, switch to Android devices for their home and
             | business needs.
        
         | jasonthorsness wrote:
         | There was a fight in Vista time frame about whether or not
         | animated/video desktop backgrounds were a good idea. They were
         | definitely cool, but AT WHAT COST. Ended up shipping as an
         | "extra".
        
           | trinix912 wrote:
           | And nowadays we got people running Wallpaper Engine on their
           | idling laptops in college classes ;)
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | And Windows Update burns through an ungodly amount of CPU.
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | Wonder how much an OS that focuses on battery life can extend
         | working time on a laptop. Would be a killer marketing point I
         | think.
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | This setting is disabled by default.
        
         | blibble wrote:
         | > And now it is my responsibility to disable showing seconds in
         | the taskbar??? If microsoft really wants to be green, windows
         | shouldn't do all these wasteful things!
         | 
         | and building multiple gigawatt consuming data centres to
         | produce AI slop no-one asked for and no-one wants
         | 
         | powered by fossil fuels
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | "This is Windows 11, you'll need a new PC for it, throw away
           | your old PC and wreck the planet some more, and by the way
           | we'll stop supporting Windows 10 in October 2025, if your PC
           | gets a malware and your bank account gets hacked and drained
           | it's not our fault".
        
         | ozgrakkurt wrote:
         | Similar vibe with telling people to not flush two times in
         | toilet while companies are pouring literal poison into
         | oceans/seas.
         | 
         | Also airlines asking for extra money to offset emissions, just
         | absolute insanity
        
           | dist-epoch wrote:
           | While those same airlines fly empty planes just to avoid
           | losing airport slots.
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | > Edge sends contents from web forms for "AI"
         | 
         | That reminds me of Chrom[e|ium]'s insanely bad form
         | suggest/autofill logic: The browser creates some sort of fuzzy
         | hash/fingerprint of the forms you visit, and uses that with
         | some Google black box to "crowdsource" what kinds of field-data
         | to suggest... _even when both the user and the web-designer try
         | to stop it_.
         | 
         | For example, imagine you're editing a list of Customers, and
         | Chrome keeps trying to trick you into entering _your own_
         | "first name" and "last name" whenever you add or edit an entry.
         | For a while developers could stop that with autocomplete="off"
         | and then Chromium deliberately put in code to ignore it.
         | 
         | I'm not sure how much of a privacy leak those form-fingerprints
         | are, but they are presumptively shady when the developers
         | ignore countless detailed complaints over many years in order
         | to keep the behavior.
         | 
         | https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40093420
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | This is not Windows-specific, it has been shown wrt. Linux
         | systems also. It's why recent Linux desktop environments have
         | gotten rid of the blinking cursor in command prompt windows
         | (that also causes frequent wakeups and screen updates) and why
         | it probably makes sense to disable most animations too.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | _It 's why recent Linux desktop environments have gotten rid
           | of the blinking cursor in command prompt windows_
           | 
           | This used to be done entirely in hardware (VGA text modes),
           | and I believe some early GPUs had a feature to do that in
           | graphics modes too.
        
         | cheema33 wrote:
         | > And now it is my responsibility to disable showing seconds in
         | the taskbar???
         | 
         | It is not. This "feature" is disabled by default.
         | 
         | Google "manufactured outrage".
        
         | anonymars wrote:
         | To be fair, does it do all those things every second?
         | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/k...
         | 
         | (For the record, I abhor Windows 11)
        
       | lxgr wrote:
       | That's quite surprising. I wouldn't have imagined Windows (or any
       | other "desktop OS") to go to great lengths to optimize for static
       | screen content in the way that e.g. smartphones or wearables do,
       | which as I understand have dedicated hardware optimized for
       | displaying a fully static screen while powering down large parts
       | of the display pipeline.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Windows runs on laptops and tablets and such. At this point
         | they probably do a fair bit of that sort of thing.
        
         | pdw wrote:
         | The decision to now show seconds dates back to Windows 95. Back
         | then the motivation was not power saving, but rather to allow
         | the code related to the clock and text rendering to be swapped
         | out to disk on a 386 with 4MB RAM... Raymond Chen:
         | https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031010-00/?p=42...
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Desktop OSs idle most of the time, and the comparison is with
         | respect to an idle desktop. Forcing context switches and
         | propagating updates through the GUI stack every second isn't
         | free in that situation, it means that at least one CPU core
         | can't stay in a lower-power state. In contrast, you probably
         | won't see much of difference in battery life for the seconds
         | display when simultaneously watching video or running
         | computational tasks.
        
       | seanalltogether wrote:
       | > Test Type: Idle desktop only (no applications or media
       | playback, unless otherwise stated)
       | 
       | It's weird they didn't also include a simple web browser test
       | that navigates a set of web links and scrolls the window
       | occasionally. Just something very light at least, doesn't even
       | have to be heavy like video playback.
        
         | jasonthorsness wrote:
         | Yeah this is not meaningful due to the unrealistic workload.
         | Sad thing is, I bet a web browser test would still show the
         | difference, as long as a page is kept static on the screen for
         | more than a few seconds before moving on.
         | 
         | Power consumption is incredibly difficult to benchmark in a
         | meaningful way because it is extremely dependent on all the
         | devices in the system, all the software running, and most power
         | optimizations are workload dependent. Tons of time went into
         | this in the windows fundamentals team at Microsoft.
        
         | rustyminnow wrote:
         | Not that weird. Idle desktop isolates the effects of the change
         | to get a worst case scenario. Would be interesting to see a
         | light activity test too though - see if you still get a
         | noticeable difference.
        
         | 0x_rs wrote:
         | I agree. My guess is the way this may be implemented could keep
         | the system from entering a lower energy state in some way or
         | another, something which would be far less noticeable during
         | normal usage.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | > We're currently running the same test again on all three
         | laptops to account for variance, but this time with a video
         | playing to simulate a more active usage scenario. Once those
         | results are in, we'll update the relevant section with the new
         | data.
        
           | delusional wrote:
           | What? "We are doing a second test to account for variance,
           | but also changing the test setup" that doesn't make any
           | sense.
        
             | viraptor wrote:
             | They account for variance between different laptops. The
             | test is changing the same way for all laptops. It makes
             | sense.
        
       | gleenn wrote:
       | 13% less battery time is pretty wild just from updating the
       | screen once per second but interesting to understand why.
        
       | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
       | Laudauer's principle
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle) tells us
       | that you can't delete a bit without releasing some heat. As the
       | new time digits come in and overwrite the old ones (in the
       | framebuffer, in the LCD, likely other places too) this would
       | occur as the previous digits were deleted. So the only case where
       | showing the time would _not_ take more power is one where other
       | things are not held equal, e.g. some quirk of the software ends
       | up doing more work to ignore the time than to show it (I 'd call
       | such a thing a bug).
       | 
       | This effect is likely vanishlingly small, definitely overshadowed
       | by engineering considerations like the voltage used when walking
       | pixels through changes and such. But still, it's a physics nudge
       | towards "yes".
        
         | ramraj07 wrote:
         | When the start menu is a react native app that spikes up the
         | cpu needing billions of flops just to do that, I doubt this
         | number will make a difference.
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | Agreed, the dominant effect would likely be which ads are
           | being served to the start menu, or which user data is being
           | exfiltrated to Microsoft at the time.
        
           | dlcarrier wrote:
           | Is that true? Was Active Desktop just a preview of what's to
           | come?
        
           | internet2000 wrote:
           | Wasn't that debunked already?
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | What if it's an OLED screen and the clock is in a dark font on
         | a light background, so adding seconds means less light is
         | emitted? (Light mode only)
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | Yeah good point. With large enough pixels and pathological
           | color choices you could almost certainly derive the opposite
           | result.
           | 
           | It would be interesting to test it over a remote desktop
           | session where the screen on the device under test is off.
           | That would eliminate a lot of factors related to the display.
           | Presumably you'd see that the network traffic is either
           | larger to begin with, or doesn't compress quite as well,
           | giving you another reason to say "yes, but what if..."
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Landauer's principle is an information-theoretic result about
         | the fundamental cost of computations. With CMOS, every logic
         | gate has multiple transistors, some of which just get charged
         | and dumped to ground with every state transition anyway.
         | 
         | It is like worry about Carnot's limit... for a motor boat.
        
       | rwallace wrote:
       | I hope so, because I actively want seconds absent from the system
       | tray. Attention is a scarce resource; the fewer things on the
       | screen constantly changing and thereby consuming my attention,
       | the better. If saving power means we remain free from that anti-
       | feature, great.
        
         | aksss wrote:
         | I, for one, love it for casual and incidental benchmarking. Of
         | everything - not just a process I run, but also how long
         | between bird chirps outside my window. But I also find it very
         | easy to ignore, too. Glad it's optional.
        
           | Asraelite wrote:
           | Does nobody care about just being able to tell the time
           | accurately? 59 seconds makes a big difference for joining
           | online meetings and things.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | Approximately zero people in the world care if you join a
             | meeting at 1:00, or 1:01. It's good to aim to be punctual,
             | but if you're off by a minute there is no consequence.
        
               | argomo wrote:
               | I'm curious how you came to such a universally sweeping
               | conclusion. At any rate, it's incorrect as I have
               | personally observed counterexamples in my professional
               | career.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | That is _definitely_ not true. It 's very dependent on
               | the culture, the company, the specific group.
               | 
               | I've met managers who literally lock the conference room
               | door when it hits :00.
               | 
               | That's a little crazy in my view, but there are
               | definitely places where it's the norm.
               | 
               | There are basically two ways of managing expectations
               | around meeting times. The first is that it's acceptable
               | for meetings to run late, so it's normal and tolerated
               | for people to be late to their _next_ meeting, and
               | meetings often start something like 5 minutes late, and
               | you try to make sure nothing _really_ important gets
               | discussed until 10 minutes in. The other is that it 's
               | unacceptable for meetings to start late, so people always
               | leave the previous meeting early to make sure they have
               | time for bathroom, emergency emails, etc. In which case
               | important participants wind up leaving before a decision
               | gets made, which is a whole problem of its own.
        
             | rwallace wrote:
             | Beware of concentrated benefit and diffuse cost. Sure, let
             | a seconds clock be available to call up the 0.1% of the
             | time when you want it. But it shouldn't be in the system
             | tray presenting a small but ongoing attention drain the
             | other 99.9% of the time.
        
               | perching_aix wrote:
               | The attention drain is sadly pretty much unmeasurable
               | properly, as it's a subjective thing.
               | 
               | I'm one of those freaks who have this on and I honestly
               | like it a lot. It gives me a feeling of certainty,
               | grounding, and precision.
               | 
               | Primary driver for turning it on was their redesign of
               | the clock flyout to be, uhh, nonexistent with Windows 11,
               | which I'd previously use on demand for seconds
               | information. I was also worried about this being a
               | nonsolution and a distraction initially, but it ended up
               | being fine.
        
             | GLdRH wrote:
             | No and No, it doesn't.
        
           | erikpukinskis wrote:
           | I just say "one one thousand two one thousand..." under my
           | breath.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Ideally the clock display should be customisable to display
         | whatever level of precision you want; I believe at least one
         | Linux application lets you specify it via a strftime() format
         | string.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | 42 minutes of battery life lost on 321 minutes of battery life is
       | insane.
        
       | endorphine wrote:
       | I was wondering the same when configuring Polybar w/ i3 to show
       | seconds on my Linux system. Even if it's marginal, I think I'll
       | disable it.
        
       | jambutters wrote:
       | Does this happen on linux? Polybar with i3 has an option to show
       | seconds by clicking the date and time
        
         | dlcarrier wrote:
         | It's going to take power, no matter the operating system. What
         | matter is how much power it takes. On most desktop environments
         | and widgets, it's probably negligible.
        
         | pdw wrote:
         | It certainly does. There is for example a measurable energy
         | cost for having a blinking cursor in a terminal, and there have
         | been huge flame wars about efforts to move to non-blinking
         | cursors.
         | 
         | The compromise for GNOME Terminal is that the cursor will stop
         | blinking after a terminal has been idle for ten seconds.
        
         | wirybeige wrote:
         | It happens on GNOME at the very least, and I would expect every
         | modern platform is the same way.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | Raymond Chen recently wrote about the history of seconds on the
       | taskbar:
       | https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20250421-00/?p=11...
        
       | 1718627440 wrote:
       | I don't get it. If the system is busy, it will update the screen
       | less then a second anyway, if it is not it will go to sleep after
       | less then a minute. Does Windows not turn off the display when
       | unused, and then goes to sleep after a while?
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | This is not a test of normal usage. This is a scenario of sleep
         | disabled and an idle system.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | > _Some Reddit users on the same thread also pointed out that
       | while the system is already doing plenty in the background, even
       | small updates like this might prevent deeper power-saving
       | states._
       | 
       | This is undoubtedly the answer, and I suspect that if any actual
       | effort were made by Microsoft, the problem might be eliminated
       | entirely. Maybe.
       | 
       | Most likely, the update is implemented calling a standard stack
       | of system calls that are completely benign in a normal
       | application, which is already limiting power savings in various
       | ways. But when run by itself, the call stack is triggering a
       | bunch of stuff that ends up using a bit more power.
       | 
       | The big question is: Can this actually be optimized with some
       | dedicated programming time? Or is the display/task bar/scheduling
       | such a convoluted mess in Windows that updating the time every
       | second without causing a bunch of other stuff to wake up is
       | impossible without a complete rewrite.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | There are two conclusions one can draw from this: either the idle
       | power consumption of laptops is so low that something as trivial
       | as updating the clock display on an otherwise idle system[1] is a
       | significant amount, or their code is so shitty that it's taking
       | an order of magnitude or more power than it should. Given this is
       | Microsoft, I'm inclined to believe the latter, or that it was
       | "deliberately" implemented in an inefficient way to "prove" their
       | argument. It'd be trivial to write a tiny Win32 app that just has
       | an incrementing seconds counter and use that to distinguish the
       | latter two cases.
       | 
       | [1] The caveat is that the majority of the time the system will
       | not be idle but doing something else possibly even more energy-
       | intensive.
        
       | nothrowaways wrote:
       | Tldr, yes.
        
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