[HN Gopher] Commodore 64 Ultimate
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Commodore 64 Ultimate
        
       Author : peterkelly
       Score  : 140 points
       Date   : 2025-07-12 09:21 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.commodore.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.commodore.net)
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | I want one !
        
       | nucleative wrote:
       | In going to follow this project closely. This is looking like a
       | case of aiming for the moon and actually getting it.
       | 
       | Let's see!
        
       | ghusto wrote:
       | I get how they're using nostalgia, but it doesn't seem to be
       | coming from a cynical place. The transformation of technology
       | from a utility to a nuisance at best and a disease at worst,
       | strikes a chord for me.
       | 
       | Computers used to be fun and yet require actual interest and
       | effort, it's why I ended where I am. What a bait and switch.
        
         | spacemadness wrote:
         | It reads like Mark Fisher's observation about capitalism
         | absorbing all resistance. Resistance becomes the next market.
         | So it's doubly cynical as it's a cash grab of sorts hoping to
         | ride on everyone's burnout from modern tech. I agree, it'd be
         | better to just ride the nostalgia itself and let others come to
         | their own conclusions about why they are nostalgic.
         | 
         | All that said I do miss this era of computing greatly where one
         | could understand it inside out and that was encouraged. I loved
         | the C64 demo scene in the 80s.
        
       | logical_proof wrote:
       | If the folks who bought the Commodore name 'Atari' this thing I
       | will be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed. If this
       | pans out its going to be awesome. Warily optimistic.
        
       | LeftHandPath wrote:
       | I grew up hearing the coders and hackers of yore regaling tales
       | of their youth, the days they invested in things like the
       | commodore or the IBM PC. I was born at the end of the 90's and
       | never touched any of those things and always felt like I missed
       | out.
       | 
       | I've done a lot of work with the IBM i Series (AS400), which has
       | an interface from that era, but no games.
        
         | allthedatas wrote:
         | Keep manually refreshing that AS400 screen! In the late 90s
         | while I was in college, for a while I had a graveyard shift job
         | running backups and printing shipping labels at a large
         | retailer and most of the work was done on an AS400 and also SCO
         | UNIX before they became a zombie copyright troll.
        
       | _spduchamp wrote:
       | I want is someone to fab real 6581 SID chips so I can do stuff
       | like this and have it sound as it should.
       | 
       | 10 FORL=54272T054295:POKEL,0:NEXT
       | 
       | 15 POKE54296,15:TI$="000000"
       | 
       | 20 POKE54277,255:POKE54278,255
       | 
       | 25 POKE54284,255:POKE54285,255
       | 
       | 30 POKE54276,17:POKE54283,17
       | 
       | 40 FORA=8TO1STEP-1:FORB=ATO1STEP-1
       | 
       | 45 T=TI+2952/B
       | 
       | 50 POKE54273,3: POKE54272,A
       | 
       | 55 POKE54288,3:POKE54279,A+B
       | 
       | 60 PRINTA,A+B
       | 
       | 70 IFTI<TTHEN70
       | 
       | 80 NEXT:NEXT
       | 
       | 90 POKE54276,16:POKE54283,16
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | Absolutely love the SID chip. The clever way of imitating
         | chord-based triads by just rapid arpeggiating on a single
         | channel was super cool to me as kid.
        
           | smilespray wrote:
           | Wasn't Rob Hubbard one of the guys behind that trick?
        
           | vardump wrote:
           | Arpeggio was everywhere, doable on pretty much any sound
           | chip.
           | 
           | I think what sets SID apart are things like high/low pass
           | filters, finely adjustable PWM width and maybe even finely
           | tunable pitch.
        
             | _spduchamp wrote:
             | The SID chip is an analog semi-modular synth with digital
             | control. The arpeggios unfortunately seem to be so heavily
             | leaned on that it pretty much defines the chiptune sound,
             | and those arpeggios could be played on lots of other
             | systems, but the SID, when you dig into the beat
             | frequencies and filters is a rich sonic world like no
             | other.
             | 
             | Here is that BASIC beat frequency drone (no filter stuff)
             | https://youtu.be/k2YZkSq2gcY
        
       | woodrowbarlow wrote:
       | with the name "ultimate" plus the hints in the original video,
       | will this use Gideon's ultimate64? and it includes a case,
       | keyboard (maybe mechboard64?), and flash cassette -- all for less
       | than the cost of an ultimate64 mainboard? pretty light on details
       | but potentially an incredible deal.
        
       | the_af wrote:
       | A nice emulated alternative used to be TheC64. I own one, not
       | sure if it's available at a reasonable price anymore. Not a real
       | Commodore -- it's running a version of VICE in an ARM chip -- but
       | with the actual form factor of a breadbin C64 and with a working
       | keyboard, which brings back memories!
       | 
       | You can play games and even program (basic, assembly, etc) using
       | a real keyboard. Pretty cool!
       | 
       | I like this is hardware based rather than emulated. However, I'm
       | unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't
       | have...
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | I think it hits a sweet spot where the physical experience is
         | close enough (where would you get an HDMI CRT monitor?). I
         | maintain the physical interaction with the emulator is key for
         | creating the illusion of real hardware.
         | 
         | > I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64
         | didn't have...
         | 
         | They have beige.
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | Wow, downvotes for mentioning an emulated alternative that also
         | physically looks like a C64? I didn't expect a reddit-like
         | response from HN :(
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | Pretty inexpensive? I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the
       | pre-order.
       | 
       | I have a couple of KIM-1 "clones" and enjoy them as well. I feel
       | like, in my old age, whenever that comes, I will enjoy them even
       | more. Diving at long last deep into assembly....
        
       | derdi wrote:
       | Big props for the website footer: "Only essential cookies here -
       | no tracking, no popups, just focus-friendly computing the
       | Commodore way."
        
         | elvis70 wrote:
         | Good intentions, but the site is hosted by Wix which add their
         | own trackers.
        
       | mgkimsal wrote:
       | Was at a friend's place a few years ago. He had an original c64,
       | tape drive, disk drive, okidata printer, and a trove of disks.
       | We'd been friends since high school, but I think he'd stopped
       | using his by then, and I was more of the computer guy (we bonded
       | over guitars, not code).
       | 
       | This was just sitting in his garage. "Take it - take it all" he
       | said. Then... was sort of forceful with it, and started putting
       | it in my car. :)
       | 
       | I took it back home, and... realized I can't connect it to
       | anything. And I'm _not_ a hardware guy. I hate hacking on that
       | sort of stuff. So I ended up giving it all to a friend who was
       | getting in to retro stuff with his son. I think they got it
       | working and connected up to something. I also gave him my C128.
       | 
       | I still have the original Commodore 'Prolog' and (IIRC) 'Forth'
       | packaging somewhere in the office here. :)
       | 
       | Looking at these (and probably some other incarnations) I'm
       | tempted to get one only because of the built in HDMI.
       | 
       | I've poked around with some emulators online and it's fun, but
       | the combination of the original keyboard and shape plus HDMI
       | might be enough to get me to commit. Probably just the original
       | beige though.
        
         | th0ma5 wrote:
         | If it is all original, you'll want to be careful with the power
         | supply. It's known to fail in a way that over voltages.
         | Replacement ones can be made or bought relatively
         | inexpensively.
        
           | mgkimsal wrote:
           | That was also in the back of my mind. Even back in the 80s, I
           | remember those bricks being a source of heat and... shock
           | sometimes. I'm just not a hardware guy, so gave it to someone
           | who I think loves tinkering with that sort of stuff... :)
        
         | mdtancsa wrote:
         | Its so funny you mention the color. Looking at the image on the
         | website, I was struck by the fact that beige could strike a
         | visceral exciting nostalgia reaction in me. I mean, its beige
         | FFS, the ultimate "boring" color :) I went from a totally
         | disengaged / disinterested teen in school to paying out of my
         | own pocket (I think $50 at the time) to take a course taught be
         | Steve Punter in the basement of a library on the other side of
         | Toronto on 6502 assembler -- in the summer!
        
       | gramie wrote:
       | Is Thomas Middledich (the central character in the TV show
       | Silicon Valley) really the Chief Creative Officer?
       | 
       | Jeri Ellsworth as Technical Advisor is also a solid member of the
       | C64 community.
        
         | peterfirefly wrote:
         | Looks like they are using (are going to use?) her FPGA re-
         | implementation.
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | It's good to have some healthy skepticism, but everything I've
         | seen has felt very legit and pragmatic. It's funny-sad that a
         | lot of people feel THIS is a nostalgia cash-in when Jack
         | Tramiel was one of the least technology-driven, emotive figures
         | in the 8-bit era. I'm OK if they do what it takes to keep the
         | spirit of the Commodore community alive.
        
       | allthedatas wrote:
       | While I did get to use a Vic20 in school I did not have a c64 but
       | my friend did. At home I had an Apple IIe (which I still have)
       | and it was great but boy was I jealous of all those color C64
       | games and also the modem they had for it! I didn't get a modem
       | until I switched to a PC in 1989.
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | Someone broke into my house and stole my Vic20 and tape deck;
         | we used the insurance money to buy a C64 and disc drive. At the
         | time it was very tramatic, but turned out to be a big blessing!
        
       | austinallegro wrote:
       | 10 PRINT "POOPY PANTS"
       | 
       | 20 GOTO 10
       | 
       | RUN
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | 10?"POOPY PANTS! ";:RUN
        
         | theonething wrote:
         | As a kid, when we went shopping at K-mart, I would hangout at
         | the computer department while parents shopped and did stuff
         | like this on the C64. hehe
        
       | aduwah wrote:
       | Am I the only one who gets sad when looking at the site? The
       | resentment of modern computing and interconnected life feels
       | extremely wrong with a Commodore brand on it.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the box, but to me
       | commodore means the complete opposite. It was the tech that
       | inspired me to start learning and later building complex systems.
       | The evolution of tech after this machine did not steal anything
       | from me, but enriched my life both financially and otherwise.
        
       | taylodl wrote:
       | Like many people my age (ahem!) the Commodore 64 was my first
       | computer and I loved it and it's responsible for my long software
       | development career.
       | 
       | But I don't want that Commodore 64 today.
       | 
       | I want the Commodore 64 of 2025. A machine where middle schoolers
       | can learn the basics of programming while having fun with
       | graphics and sound. Maybe even have a simple 2D gaming engine
       | built-in. I don't know. I want the _spirit_ of the Commodore 64,
       | not the actual machine itself.
        
         | psadri wrote:
         | I agree. I recently started exposing my kids to programming and
         | I chose a C64 emulator. The BASIC REPL is so simple/limited
         | that it doesn't overwhelm the kids with irrelevant syntax
         | (those can come later, if they are interested). The fact that a
         | 1..100 loop can introduce a noticeable delay. You can literally
         | see the computer working. Primitive graphics and sound provide
         | immediate feedback which makes learning engaging and fun.
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | We used PICO-8. Worked great for that purpose.
        
             | derstander wrote:
             | Picotron (also by Lexaloffle) might be an even better match
             | for those wanting a retro workstation as opposed to a retro
             | game console.
             | 
             | https://www.lexaloffle.com/picotron.php
        
         | hakfoo wrote:
         | In that regard, I almost feel like a new Atari 800-series would
         | be better.
         | 
         | The C64 had good graphics and excellent sound but so much of it
         | was behind a brick-wall learning curve of poking. Atari's
         | native BASIC at least provided some rudimentary access. You
         | want something where the user can get a win on day 1, or it's
         | getting buried in the closet with the rock tumbler.
         | 
         | Or maybe if they packed in a super-extended BASIC ROM. But
         | pretty quickly you end up wanting something with more modern
         | flow control and structures, maybe closer to "Qbasic with
         | sprite commands" and then you're probably demanding more than
         | what can be reasonably asked of a 6510-class CPU.
        
           | z303 wrote:
           | The RM 800XL maybe of interest
           | 
           | https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | The Mega65 was a stab at this idea - a self contained
         | modernized version of the old 8-bit computer while trying to
         | maintain backwards compatibility with C64 programs.
         | 
         | https://mega65.org
        
           | amichail wrote:
           | There was no need to include a floppy drive though.
           | 
           | Also, Python would have been better than BASIC as the built-
           | in default language.
        
             | kevindamm wrote:
             | What you're describing sounds a lot like the OLPC XO.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO
        
             | killerstorm wrote:
             | I don't think Python is better than BASIC. It's more
             | powerful, sure, but it's crazy complex and fussy. Wrong
             | punctuation and your code doesn't work.
             | 
             | If you want Python just use modern laptop, no need to retro
             | anything.
             | 
             | BASIC has command-like statements, no complexity like
             | lambda, classes, modules, etc.
        
               | amichail wrote:
               | Having a computer that boots directly into a built-in
               | programming language is still compelling though.
               | 
               | It encourages the user to learning programming and
               | develop their own apps.
        
               | mceachen wrote:
               | Are you remembering the same BASIC that I'm remembering?
               | With fixed line numbers? Refactoring was near impossible.
               | Spaghetti code was par for the course. You were forced to
               | build everything twice or thrice if you wanted a final
               | product that wasn't embarrassing.
               | 
               | Just not having line numbers cooked in is a total game
               | changer.
               | 
               | And no GOTO.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | > With fixed line numbers? Refactoring was near
               | impossible. Spaghetti code was par for the course.
               | 
               | Yup, even for the old 8-bit computers FORTH would've been
               | a lot more elegant than BASIC. But back in the day BASIC
               | came with highly valued conveniences such as a soft-float
               | implementation that meant support for the "desk
               | calculator" use case was available out of the box, and
               | users could just go on from there.
        
               | graydoubt wrote:
               | I had a C16, and later a C128D (and therefore a C64). The
               | C64 had the most limited BASIC of them all, with v2.0. So
               | many advanced features were hidden behind PEEK/POKE. With
               | BASIC 3.5 on the C16, they added the RENUMBER command,
               | which made refactoring much easier, and it had a SOUND
               | command, despite having a much simpler DSP
               | implementation. The C128 had BASIC v7.0, which included a
               | sprite editor, and much more advanced SOUND command.
               | 
               | If they upgraded the C64's BASIC to 7.0, that would
               | already make a lot of things much more accessible.
        
               | killerstorm wrote:
               | I mean it's a better language for middle-school kids.
               | They shouldn't be concerned with refactoring.
               | 
               | Important thing about BASIC is that each "command" does a
               | rather limited amount of "stuff". In that way it is kinda
               | similar to assembly language.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | Plenty of elementary and middle-school kids learned LOGO
               | which is a vastly more elegant language than BASIC. (It's
               | essentially a LISP with different syntax, the one thing
               | that's inadvisable about it for modern purposes is its
               | use of dynamic scope.)
        
             | glimshe wrote:
             | Python would be the wrong choice. BASIC is the ultimate
             | "batteries included" language. No weirdness hidden behind
             | dynamic types and you can make full games with graphics and
             | sounds (in most implementations) without installing a
             | single external library. BASIC is feature-poor by design
             | and beginners can quickly fully master it. And there are
             | classic variants without line numbers (no need for GOTOs)
             | for those who hate them.
             | 
             | IMHO, humanity is yet to build a better beginner language,
             | at least if you look at the late BASICs such as QuickBASIC.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | See also
           | 
           | https://www.commanderx16.com/
           | 
           | Which is based on the 6502-compatible 65C816 but used a
           | simple banking scheme instead of the broken 24-bit address
           | space that chip natively supports (no 24-bit index registers)
           | The way video memory works in it is really clever and lets it
           | really surpass 1980s machines in many ways.
           | 
           | My favorite retrocomputer though has to be
           | 
           | https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-
           | Computers/AgonLight2/o...
           | 
           | which is priced right though it doesn't have the keyboard and
           | instead based on the eZ80 which really does extend the Z-80
           | with 24-bit registers so that you can use all the RAM easily.
        
         | cmdlyne wrote:
         | > I want the spirit of the Commodore 64, not the actual machine
         | itself.
         | 
         | Why not have both?
         | 
         | You could buy this and you could setup EndlessOS:
         | 
         | https://www.endlessos.org/os
        
           | aruggirello wrote:
           | Based on Debian, but does not use apt. I'm impressed by the
           | effort, but not fully convinced.
        
         | deaddodo wrote:
         | > I want the Commodore 64 of 2025. A machine where middle
         | schoolers can learn the basics of programming while having fun
         | with graphics and sound. Maybe even have a simple 2D gaming
         | engine built-in. I don't know. I want the spirit of the
         | Commodore 64, not the actual machine itself.
         | 
         | Exactly. This is what I think every time I see one of these old
         | revival projects. I don't want a Spectrum, C64, Atari ST,
         | etc...we have those, they're fairly easy to acquire and
         | renovate. And are more than capable of being run on a FPGA. And
         | there are dozens of projects built around the same old 6502,
         | Z80, etc.
         | 
         | Stop locking your perspective into the 80s to try to recapture
         | that nostalgia.
         | 
         | No, give me a new "hobbyist" computer in the _spirit_ of those
         | days. Throw an ARM m-series /RISC-V/etc on it with some custom
         | blitter/vdpu and sound ASICs and 512MB of RAM. Give it some
         | easily accessible programming environment on ROM, with an
         | option to baremetal with ASM, C, etc. Add a few slots that are
         | MMAPed in. And let the hobbyist field run wild.
        
           | markus_zhang wrote:
           | I have always wanted to learn to build a (relatively modern)
           | computer like the one you described:
           | 
           | - Some 32-bit CPU, whatever, anything that is a bit easy to
           | program through C/ASM, just to make sure there is no weird
           | kirks.
           | 
           | - Support keyboards, displays, mouse, etc., just the usual
           | ones. So a lot of drivers.
           | 
           | - Some 256MB - 512MB memory should be good enough.
           | 
           | - Has an OS, some programming languages, some tools, a good
           | editor, etc.
           | 
           | This is like the Ben Eater 8-bit computer in adrenaline. It
           | is probably a LOT of work just to figure out how to source
           | the correct components, and build the thing, then a LOT more
           | work to write drivers for them, and MORE work to write OS and
           | compilers and tools for them. We can't use Linux because it
           | has memory protection all over the place. We need something
           | that newbies can poke and peek into, and simply reset the CPU
           | if something is wrong, just like the micro computers in the
           | 70s/80s. We DO want capable compilers and interpreters (e.g.
           | C/Python) and good tools (like, some editors that have good
           | auto-complete at least).
           | 
           | It's a bit like building a pad or a mobile phone, but without
           | all those commercial consideration. Nowadays, to build a pad
           | or a mobile phone, if I'm not mistaken, one simply push
           | Android into the chipsets and call it a day, which is not
           | what I want. But what I want probably doesn't make $$ so no
           | one is going to do it.
        
             | nolist_policy wrote:
             | What is wrong with an raspberry Pi pico?
             | 
             | If you need more ram: https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-
             | linux/ (just ignore the Linux part)
        
               | markus_zhang wrote:
               | Yeah it works fine if we ignore the Linux part. Guess I
               | might be thinking too much.
        
           | hoistbypetard wrote:
           | > No, give me a new "hobbyist" computer in the spirit of
           | those days. Throw an ARM m-series/RISC-V/etc on it with some
           | custom blitter/vdpu and sound ASICs and 512MB of RAM. Give it
           | some easily accessible programming environment on ROM, with
           | an option to baremetal with ASM, C, etc. Add a few slots that
           | are MMAPed in. And let the hobbyist field run wild.
           | 
           | Isn't a pi awfully close to that, at least in spirit? For my
           | 10 year-old's science project, I bought a trio of interesting
           | sensors off amazon, showed her a diagram of the GPIO pins and
           | a diagram of the sensor pins, explained how to map between
           | the two, and had her draw it out with colored pencils.
           | 
           | Then I burned a fresh raspbian image onto a sd card,
           | connected a keyboard, mouse, and tv, and helped her figure
           | out how to read the GPIO pins in python. The vibe of the
           | whole thing felt a lot like the old things we had in the 80s
           | and early 90s, but more accessible because I didn't have to
           | deal with weird serial/parallel junk or with putting together
           | a PCB for the slots.
           | 
           | It does sound like this crew harbors ambitions of moving past
           | nostalgia to embracing that spirit a little more, but I don't
           | personally feel like that's lacking in the Pi ecosystem, at
           | least...
        
         | tracerbulletx wrote:
         | From their faq.
         | 
         | Is this all just nostalgia? Nostalgia is one of our two core
         | pillars - alongside modern innovation. Like yin and yang, these
         | forces balance and strengthen each other in that retro *
         | futurism approach.
         | 
         | The commercial power of nostalgia is real - and it will help
         | fuel and fund the development of modern, forward-facing
         | products in turn. It's a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires,
         | modern sustains. Commodore isn't returning. It's evolving, with
         | purpose.
        
           | johnb231 wrote:
           | Written by ChatGPT. The second paragraph is obviously AI
           | slop.
           | 
           | This sentence is 100% AI generated: "It's a symbiotic cycle:
           | retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn't returning.
           | It's evolving, with purpose."
        
             | mrob wrote:
             | Agreed it looks like slop, and it's IMO a bad sign. I think
             | a big part of the appeal of old computers is the fact that
             | they're simple enough for a single human to completely
             | understand.
             | 
             | Generative AI is a black box that's impossible to
             | completely understand. Using generative AI signals to me
             | that whoever did it probably doesn't find any inherent
             | value in understanding things, and sees understanding only
             | as a means to an end. Old computers have little practical
             | use, so this leaves nostalgia as the main appeal, and
             | nostalgia has less stringent requirements.
        
             | tracerbulletx wrote:
             | The people behind this are a pretty known entity..
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke-Ao-CpI7E
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | They also mention that they explicitly wanted this - a state-
           | of-the-art reimplementation of the old C64 - to be their
           | _first_ released product, which makes some sense. It 's also
           | the product where their Commodore trademark - the real value
           | behind this new effort - is most relevant, shifting away from
           | the old pattern where random products would be "Commodore"
           | branded, with no real link to the company's history or to any
           | plausible "retro futurism" vision.
        
         | mrandish wrote:
         | I've been into 'retro computing' continuously since the 80s and
         | there have been a variety of interesting retro focused machines
         | like this launched over the last 15 years. They are mostly
         | hobby projects but some have scaled up through crowd funding to
         | be marginally successful. A big success in this market would be
         | shipping a thousand units but few reach that level. I think the
         | reason is that despite quite a bit of interest the market is
         | fragmented into different groups with differing primary goals:
         | 
         | * Capture "the spirit" of an all-in-one, simple computer that
         | boots to an accessible language.
         | 
         | * Recreate an actual 80s computer via software, FPGA emulation
         | or compatible CPU. A major sub-group is those wanting support
         | for physical 80s media which can include disks, cartridges and
         | even tape.
         | 
         | Within these major groups are a variety of different
         | requirements. A big one is whether the machine must support
         | modern displays (HDMI) or authentic retro displays (CRTs). If
         | you don't have a CRT then HDMI is a requirement, however
         | inserting what was originally low-res analog composite video
         | into a hi-res digital container involves some significant
         | trade-offs and design complexity. It's not trivial or cheap to
         | do well with high-quality and high-compatibility. Then there
         | are those who split on whether modern connectivity and
         | conveniences like Wifi, Ethernet and SD card media are
         | mandatory, nice-to-haves or definite should-not-haves. Of
         | course, those conveniences aren't much use without sufficient
         | CPU power and resolution to support a modern browser and OS
         | capable of reading modern media which involve more cost and
         | potential compatibility issues.
         | 
         | The great thing is that those who are retro-interested now have
         | a lot of good options ranging from OG hardware to software
         | emulation, FPGA systems and all-new designs. My advice is to be
         | clear on what experience you really want, the specific traits
         | you care about and the various trade-offs and challenges those
         | entail before diving in.
        
           | gedy wrote:
           | Isn't this basically a Raspberry Pi 400?
           | https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/
           | 
           | I think the challenge is computers these days can do so much
           | that tinkering with something like this no longer feels
           | futuristic or cutting edge like a C=64 did back then.
        
             | mrandish wrote:
             | Sure, a modern SBC repackaged in an all-in-one case can be
             | a good option for most of the first group I mentioned.
             | However, out of the box it doesn't boot to BASIC like an
             | early 80s home computer so you'd need to configure a custom
             | boot and choose a language. And even within that group
             | there are some for who the simplicity of limited graphics,
             | resolution and other capabilities is an important element,
             | so they'd probably want to go further to something like
             | auto-booting directly into a software emulation of an 80s
             | computer.
             | 
             | For those who care about running retro software titles,
             | software or FPGA emulation would be the minimum, however
             | that doesn't help those who want support for retro physical
             | media or peripherals, CRT displays or highly accurate
             | emulation. You may not care about those things but for a
             | significant part of the addressable market for machines
             | like this, one or more of those things are a high priority.
             | Which was my point, the retro-interested market looks
             | pretty large but when you zoom in, you realize it's
             | fragmented and that makes it challenging to design a device
             | that appeals to enough buyers. Since the RPi 400 seems
             | perfect to you, you probably don't care about it looking
             | like a C64, however the folks behind this new device paid a
             | lot to buy the Commodore brand name and logo (supposedly up
             | to a million dollars). And that's before the plastic
             | moulds, retro keyboard etc. For you, that may all be wasted
             | money and effort. For others it might be a big part of the
             | appeal.
             | 
             | It's certainly possible to make a retro computer that has
             | HDMI, Wifi, Ethernet and SD cards and gets on the modern
             | web but also has analog composite, S-video, and component
             | output for CRTs, along with having a cartridge port, floppy
             | drive, serial or parallel port and which runs period
             | software with cycle-accuracy. However, that device is
             | probably going to cost close to $1,000 and take a fair bit
             | of time and expertise to create. I'm a hardcore retro-
             | enthusiast and I'd certainly consider spending that kind of
             | money but most people probably wouldn't. Worse... I'm not
             | even in the market for such a wonder-machine because I
             | already own over a hundred different models of retro
             | computer along with analog composite, S-video and composite
             | CRTs to use them (almost every 80s model of Commodore,
             | Atari, Apple, Amiga, Sinclair, Amstrad and Radio Shack
             | along with other more obscure brands).
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | Have you seen the things going on with the C64 in the last 20
         | years?
         | 
         | https://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platform%5B0%5D=Commodore...
         | 
         | Some of it is astonishing given the limitations of the machine.
         | 
         | The technical mastery and creative problem solving going on
         | here is what keeps the demoscene alive. The C64 is still going
         | strong, new productions come out all the time.
         | 
         | And I can't think of a better machine for a kid today to start
         | out with than an 8-bit machine. If they learn assembly language
         | on a C64, they will have a far better understanding of how
         | computers actually work than anyone taking a class in web or
         | crypto or whatever they teach kids about computers today.
        
         | christkv wrote:
         | I think something like blitzbasic with llm support to vibe code
         | and generate sprite sheets would be awesome.
        
         | Keyframe wrote:
         | (disclaimer, I have maybe a bit too much of this retro
         | hardware.. unhealthy amount, ahem).
         | 
         | Raspberry Pi 400 / 5 would be that.. but, in reality and
         | pragmatically since it needs to be something widespread I'd
         | argue it's actually a browser. In Chrome you hit Ctrl-Shift I
         | and console is right there.
        
         | bowsamic wrote:
         | It's called Emacs, not even joking
        
       | boltzmann64 wrote:
       | I am sorry, but people are still using Commodore 64 these days?
        
         | slow_typist wrote:
         | There are even people who develop new games for the C64. And
         | there is still an active demo scene I think.
        
           | richrichardsson wrote:
           | Yes, there is a very active demo scene, and frankly the
           | people coding them are wizards.
           | 
           | But not just the coders, the artists (visual/audio) are also
           | wizards.
        
       | mrbluecoat wrote:
       | Not sure where they were going with LEDs on a nostalgia device
       | but glad they offer beautiful beige:
       | https://www.commodore.net/product-page/commodore-64-ultimate...
        
       | cmrdporcupine wrote:
       | In a way I'd just have preferred for them to slap an official
       | Commodore branding on the Mega65, which is IMHO a much more
       | compelling and amazing product:
       | 
       | https://mega65.org/
       | 
       | Huge labour of love, and far more interesting.
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | I find it a bit of a shame it's so expensive though. By far,
         | the most important aspect of emulation is the physical
         | experience, from typing on an accurate recreation, to inserting
         | floppies, to hearing the sounds and feeling the vibration. The
         | mega65 could be a shell with a small ARM board inside and I'd
         | be happy, the same way I am with my The64 Maxi.
        
       | whartung wrote:
       | Wasn't the Commodore logo and name sold recently for "seven
       | figures"?
       | 
       | Is this the same folks?
        
         | Findecanor wrote:
         | The promo video [1] is on the new Commodore CEO's YouTube
         | channel, so it must be.
         | 
         | The PCB looks like a rebranded "Ultimate 64" FPGA board [2],
         | which has been out in a couple of iterations for a few years.
         | 
         | 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fGP59mJ5M
         | 
         | 2. https://ultimate64.com/
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | I hope they'll add a version with the C64C design down the line.
        
       | jadbox wrote:
       | I'm sorta turned off that it doesn't include the joysticks.. and
       | they are $40 each!
        
       | pflenker wrote:
       | This really scratches my itch. I love retro computing, the closer
       | to the original hardware the better - but the one thing that gets
       | in the way (and that can stay in the past!) are the horrible
       | loading times. A new C64 is exactly what I need.
        
         | Cockbrand wrote:
         | I have a somewhat modded C64 with JiffyDOS and an SD2IEC, and
         | it loads everything really fast. Sometimes I miss the weird
         | 1541 noises, but generally, it's a great combination.
        
       | dirtikiti wrote:
       | I get the retro thing... But...
       | 
       | How about a new operating system with backwards compatibility
       | that runs on modern arm hardware...
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | https://www.ami64.com/product-page/the-c64-maxi
         | 
         | and
         | 
         | https://myretrocomputer.com/
        
       | jasoneckert wrote:
       | I still have a C64 in my basement in case I need a nostalgia
       | kick. A few years ago I set it all up and loaded a game. I was
       | surprised at how slow it is and how bad the game was compared to
       | how I remember it - so I boxed it up again and have no intention
       | of setting it up again to keep my fond memories intact.
       | 
       | I have a feeling many who buy this product will ultimately do the
       | same.
        
         | atombender wrote:
         | I had the opposite experience. I bought a C64 at a flea market
         | and hooked it up to an old Sanyo TV I had found in a dumpster.
         | Loaded up Time Pilot, Drop Zone, and H.E.R.O., and had an
         | incredibly fun time playing them together with a date.
         | 
         | Sometimes the nostalgia doesn't kick in, and clearly many
         | things were objectively bad in a way that hits differently now.
         | I wouldn't want to sit long nights writing assembly code and
         | battle bad sectors on floppy disks. But I still think it's a
         | great little gaming computer.
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | I sure spent a lot of time with my c64 and the idea of having a
       | new one in the exact same wrist-ruining form factor, except
       | transparent so you can see that it's actually implemented via a
       | tiny handful of modern chips, has absolutely zero appeal.
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | Imagine coupling this with this IPS screen:
       | 
       | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/checkmate1500mini/retro...
       | 
       | (Stephen Jones' project - he also has Commodore background, IIRC)
        
         | crims0n wrote:
         | For some reason this is not linking to what I expected...
         | 
         | Edit: I think this is where you meant to link:
         | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/checkmate1500mini/retro...
        
       | ibobev wrote:
       | I hope the original hardware of retro systems will be in
       | production again someday.
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | I'm still looking for the 2025-2030 version of a kid's first
       | computer. C64 and Apple ][ made sense back then because whatever
       | the poor animation they provided back in the late 70s/early 80s
       | are exciting ENOUGH for younger version of us. Back then ANY
       | interaction is good enough. NES was the bang but it definitely
       | requires a lot of imagination to match the sprites to the box
       | arts. I think the key here is to force the kids to use
       | imagination.
       | 
       | Actually I'm going to do an experiment on my soon to be 5-years-
       | old son. I have exposed some cartoon shows to him, but none of
       | them is very fancy. I gave him Curious George and Bluey, both
       | fall more into the hand-drawn camp than the CG camp. I have never
       | expose him to any games or mobile apps like TikTok. I'm going to
       | expose NES games or C64 games to him and see if he is interested.
       | Despite my respect to John Carmack, I'm always in the camp of
       | "you don't need post-2000 graphics to make any genre interesting,
       | even for FPS", and I always believe the advancement of graphics
       | hurts games more than benefiting them.
        
       | crims0n wrote:
       | Grabbed a preorder, the Beige one seems like a legitimately good
       | deal at 300 USD; and it comes with a spiral bound user manual!
        
         | AlexeyBrin wrote:
         | Is there any way to see what the manual contains ? It would be
         | great to have a programming tutorial like the original.
        
           | crims0n wrote:
           | No idea unfortunately, just saw it listed in the "what's in
           | the box" section.
        
       | cadr wrote:
       | They at least have some cool technical advisors. And a "Chief
       | Tramiel Officer".
        
       | ta8645 wrote:
       | Earlier in the day the number of preorders / total number of
       | systems available was shown on the order page. That seems to have
       | been removed now. Presales may be going slower than hoped.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-12 23:01 UTC)