[HN Gopher] Things I learned from 5 years at Vercel
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       Things I learned from 5 years at Vercel
        
       Author : gk1
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2025-07-11 13:00 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (leerob.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (leerob.com)
        
       | anupj wrote:
       | Love this: 'Passion without boundaries leads to burnout.' The
       | hardest lesson in tech isn't shipping fast or scaling--it's
       | learning when to actually go home. Sustainable output beats
       | heroics every time
        
         | purple_ferret wrote:
         | Sort of conflicts with the other points though, which basically
         | sum up to "Be a 10X developer or die trying"
        
           | scrubs wrote:
           | The whole thing is affirmational in the jacket of happy
           | warrior. Self consistency was never the point.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | The conflict is resolved by realizing that points 2 and 3
           | aren't valid.
        
         | srhtftw wrote:
         | Seek patience and passion in equal amounts.       Patience
         | alone will not build the temple.       Passion alone will
         | destroy its walls.            - Maya Angelou
        
       | fizk wrote:
       | One of the best, or maybe the best, coding presenter I've ever
       | come across on youtube.
        
         | leerob wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
       | TimMeade wrote:
       | Well written Lee; and 100% on point. So very true. Much thanks
       | for moving the needle and good luck on what's next.
        
       | nilirl wrote:
       | I've never worked at a startup that hit it big, so I came in
       | wanting to disagree with whatever was in this post.
       | 
       | But I liked it. Now I'm mad.
        
       | huksley wrote:
       | Leerob, thank you for your patience and help on Reddit community!
       | The NextJS gets a lot of criticism these days but you helped a
       | lot of people, with self-hosting NextJs and other tricky
       | questions.
        
         | CharlieDigital wrote:
         | Jumping onto a Next.js project right now that has no reason to
         | have SSR. The code is now excessively complex, difficult to
         | detangle, and I can't believe how bad the local DX is on a cold
         | start on an M1 MBP. It's _so slow_ ; every nav is agonizing.
         | Maybe it's how this is configured, maybe it's some other issue,
         | but I definitely didn't encounter this with OOB stock Nuxt.js
         | and of course, this project is an app that has no reason nor
         | benefit for using Next.js.
         | 
         | No idea how Vercel scammed so many people. Founder paid an
         | annual contract of $##,### to Vercel for what should be a
         | freely hosted static web app + freely hosted (within credit
         | boundaries) backend in a serverless container (e.g. Google
         | Cloud Run, Azure Container Apps, etc.)
         | 
         | A complete scam.
        
           | miyuru wrote:
           | I guess the branding and marketing worked.
           | 
           | Last time I checked Vercel was just reselling services of
           | AWS.
        
             | CharlieDigital wrote:
             | > I guess the branding and marketing worked.
             | 
             | Indeed; I remember watching one of their tech sessions
             | around the Next.js 12 to 13 release and then watching a
             | Microsoft one. One was very clearly a marketing ad.
             | 
             | We shortly ditched Next.js afterwards because of how janky
             | the whole DX was the entire time and how much worse it was
             | during the transition.
             | 
             | Now I'm back in a Next.js 15 project and it's amazing that
             | the DX somehow feels even worse!
        
               | sunaookami wrote:
               | They introduce a lot of shiny half-baked features while
               | abandoning old ones.
        
             | c-hendricks wrote:
             | Hey that's short selling them, they also managed to make
             | HTTP middleware not work like you'd expect in nextjs which
             | has some arcane advantage when hosted on Vercel.
        
           | huksley wrote:
           | NextJS now is unecessary complex, and there are things to
           | avoid to make sure everything works fine.
           | 
           | I am not sure why it is so slow for you, maybe you you can
           | try run this boilerplate (work in progress to make it easy to
           | use)
           | 
           | https://github.com/wizecore/boilerplate-saas/
           | 
           | It uses Pages router, comes with local postgres, redis and
           | AWS sqs emulator. No docker, no cloud needed for it to work
           | locally.
           | 
           | Such setup is crazy fast on my mbp m2 pro.
        
           | leerob wrote:
           | You don't have to use SSR:
           | https://nextjs.org/docs/app/guides/static-exports
        
             | CharlieDigital wrote:
             | Yes, of course, it has SSG and ISR as well, but then you
             | are overall better off with something else like a VitePress
             | for fully static, React + Vite if you still want React and
             | build a static app, or use Astro.js if you need some client
             | side reactivity.
             | 
             | Next.js is a lot of marketing for a terrible product.
        
         | leerob wrote:
         | Thank you, I appreciate that.
        
       | zappodobbo wrote:
       | Vercel raised $563M so far. Where do you think you guys would
       | have been if you had bootstrapped?
        
         | alberth wrote:
         | Especially given that it's hosted on AWS.
         | 
         | (Reminds me of Heroku back in the day as being another
         | "hosting" sold & layered on top of AWS)
        
       | cyanf wrote:
       | leerob is so active in the space that I didn't realize until
       | reading this that he isn't Vercel's founder.
        
       | gdbsjjdn wrote:
       | Plane with holes in wings returns to base, encourages engineers
       | to reinforce wings to prevent holes.
        
       | ashwinsundar wrote:
       | I am not impressed with Next.js or Lee's evangelism (yes, in the
       | religious sense) of their platform. Being forced to develop in
       | Next.js for a major project was the last straw, and convinced me
       | to abandon the Javascript/Typescript/Node.js ecosystem entirely
       | for future web projects (where I have the choice). Dev-fluencers
       | and Next.js evangelists who gish-gallop and provide
       | (non)-responses to serious developer problems with Next.js
       | convinced me that Vercel is building an elaborate cash grab, on
       | the enterprise scale, and securing vendor lock-in for many years
       | to come. Don't tell me that Next.js is easy to deploy in Docker
       | either - it's not, I wrestled with that implementation for months
       | and it was fragile/broken in a way that I suspect a native
       | Vercel-deployment is not.
       | 
       | The current stack I'm using is Django/Python, HTMX, Alpine.js,
       | and TailwindCSS. Yes I know the middle two use Javascript under
       | the hood, there is no way around that for client interactivity.
       | But they do support the HATEOAS principal
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HATEOAS) which has been a breath
       | of fresh air imo. The book "Hypermedia Systems" is also a great
       | way to achieve the mental reset needed to abandon modern web
       | frameworks and go back to things that actually work, in terms of
       | web development.
        
         | vevoe wrote:
         | I'm not saying that Next.js is good or bad but we deploy our
         | Next.js app in a docker container and it's never been an issue.
         | I'm curious what issues you had?
        
           | ashwinsundar wrote:
           | It's been a year since I was on the project and have since
           | forgotten. I remember it being related to configuring
           | security and middleware with the granularity required by a
           | high-security client. There were other things too that were
           | very hard to configure as soon as you stepped off the
           | Dockerfile template provided by Next.js documentation.
        
         | sunaookami wrote:
         | Next.js has many weird bugs and things that just... don't work
         | and when you hit these edge cases and a >5 year old open GitHub
         | issue you know you will spend the next two weeks searching for
         | another way or just abandoning it because it doesn't work. Got
         | burned out hard by Next.js while rewriting a very old project -
         | it worked in the end and I was proud of it but just using
         | something... simpler would've been better. Deploying Next.js
         | outside Vercel is hell, too...
         | 
         | Also tried SvelteKit (with Svelte 4) which was quiet nice but
         | it completely misbehave in production with a lot of corner-case
         | bugs that were not reproducable in development and I abandoned
         | it for good. Didn't the creator of Svelte even joined Vercel?
         | They seem to want to "unite" all the JS frameworks "under one
         | roof" which I find a bit... disturbing?
        
           | ashwinsundar wrote:
           | Nuxt joined Vercel earlier this week too -
           | https://vercel.com/blog/nuxtlabs-joins-vercel
        
       | daxfohl wrote:
       | I'd add, if feature A can't be shipped 10x faster, ask the same
       | question about features B, C, and D and then redo your ROI
       | calculations, before deciding to invest in feature A.
       | 
       | That keeps the team consistently delivering and motivated, and
       | gives you more time to think about feature A. Some features are
       | really important to get right and take the appropriate time, and
       | some are just important to ship. Having that distinction explicit
       | allows the team to maintain good shipping velocity without
       | accruing "high interest" tech debt.
       | 
       | Also there's obviously no single correct ratio here. Newer
       | companies, services, teams, products will probably lean toward
       | shipping fast since architecture is still being defined (and too
       | much architecture could be more detrimental than tech debt / too
       | little architecture, if it doesn't match future requirements),
       | whereas more mature ones will be more willing to sacrifice
       | shipping velocity for better fit with the existing domain model.
        
       | sm00thbr41n wrote:
       | > radical deadline compression
       | 
       | lol
        
       | udkl wrote:
       | This is a good writeup, but the VP learnings/mistakes (#3, 4 and
       | 5) honestly felt pretty amateur mistakes for any leadership
       | position ... even for just a junior managerial role. It's a good
       | thing they were able to learn on the job, but the team could have
       | used a more seasoned leader - or the author could have had more
       | pre-training/coaching.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-11 23:01 UTC)