[HN Gopher] Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface
___________________________________________________________________
Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface
Author : cainxinth
Score : 344 points
Date : 2025-07-11 11:03 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (patternproject.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (patternproject.substack.com)
| xeonmc wrote:
| Ok, where is this psychedelic community found?
|
| I must sample their handles for videogame character names.
| diggan wrote:
| > Ok, where is this psychedelic community found?
|
| Bit like asking where all the beer drinkers are! People who are
| into psychedelics come from all walks of life and we're
| everywhere :) Start talking about fringe stuff with people and
| eventually you'll stumble upon others.
| firtoz wrote:
| There are some decent communities in Discord, for both research
| oriented but also hobby oriented communities of psychedelics.
| trenbologna wrote:
| Burning man and other festivals are a good resource
| copperx wrote:
| Bill disliked the expensive retreat hurdle.
| dudeinjapan wrote:
| Visit your local Hobby Lobby and ask around.
| zeckalpha wrote:
| The article mentions Erowid
| demiters wrote:
| Not a big fan of the ongoing productisation of transcendental,
| possibly brain-scrambling experiences. Keeping them somewhat less
| accessible tends to filter out people who don't do their homework
| to understand the substance and who consider it just another
| novel experience to try on a whim, which increases the risk of
| negative outcomes.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| That has been various governments approach to drugs for
| literally decades and it got us nowhere.
|
| The problem isnt that this still is casually available. Drugs
| have been casually available since forever.
|
| The problem is that pushing drug usage to the fringes makes it
| less safe for people who haven't done their homework.
| Ironically the exact opposite of that you claimed.
| demiters wrote:
| You're right. I'm all for across-the-board decriminalisation
| btw. But I don't really know where a responsible balance
| would be for psychedelic availability, my intuition is we
| shouldn't be aiming at OTC disposable DMT vapes etc.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Perhaps administration of the drug from a professional?
| Make the treatment an affordable and legal option.
| athenot wrote:
| The difficulty here is professional skill entails money,
| money entails risk management, risk management entails
| legalities.
|
| The only way in the US is to have a powerful lobby that
| can fight to ensure broad waivers stand up in court, like
| the NRA: you can buy a gun and literally shoot yourself
| in the foot.
|
| But if transaction, money, service, profession are all
| removed, then under a co-op / non profit this might work.
| Of course, those structures are also vulnerable to well-
| funded legal opponents.
|
| Some European countries do provide a framework for this
| but it's more from a public health perspective and to
| eliminate the raison-d'etre of criminal drug
| organizations.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| That sounds awful. I'll stick to my home and nature
| mathiaspoint wrote:
| I think with psychedelics it's fine. The problems you're
| talking about are with addictive stimulants.
| asveikau wrote:
| With psychedelics the risk profile is very different.
| Firstly, people can do harmful things during the trip.
| Second, a more vague, difficult to measure and predict
| concern around long term psychological effects to some
| people.
| mathiaspoint wrote:
| Right, my pronoun is dangling here. "It" was meant to
| refer to the status quo of making them inaccessible
| without a lot of difficulty and breaking the law.
| perching_aix wrote:
| > do their homework to understand the substance
|
| Is that actually _the_ common thing to do amongst recreational
| psychadelics users (i.e. is there research backing this up)?
|
| And how do these folks "understand the substance(s)"? We
| (humanity) know very little about how the brain works
| comparatively as far as I'm aware, and psychadelics research is
| further relatively lacking due to regulatory and funding
| constraints. Most resources I hear of just seem to be
| compilations of anecdata, frequently muddled with subjective
| remarks.
| demiters wrote:
| I can only speak for my own circle that I know about where
| test kits are the norm. Anecdata isn't ideal but it does seem
| to be valuable as long as the reader considers both positive
| and negative reports equally and understands the risks rather
| than just yoloing. I still consider Erowid a great harm
| reduction resource, TripSit wiki is also fantastic, and I
| very much support the approach taken by the Subjective Effect
| Index website.
| perching_aix wrote:
| I see, fair enough. I'd be just hesitant to say "xy keeps
| yz from doing zx" without data, cause it sounds like a
| claim (or even a fact) rather than an opinion/anecdote, and
| it's pretty hard to pick up on this difference.
|
| We were able to clarify it and we're both being decent
| sports about the topic, but you can imagine how well this
| might go over in less careful and open minded situations.
| Or even desperate ones.
| zeta0134 wrote:
| I suppose this is a dangerous counterargument to make,
| especially as I'm not a substance user at all myself, but...
| what's wrong with wanting to seek out novel experiences? I'd
| much rather folks who wish to do this be able to do so safely,
| with good sources of information about those risks and with a
| support network that is allowed to talk about it. I feel like
| the taboo nature of substances in general causes folks with
| this interest to hide it from their peers, exactly the people
| who would otherwise be first in line to spot problems and offer
| assistance. Shouldn't it be okay to talk about it?
| lostmsu wrote:
| They are totally OK as long as healthcare is not socialized.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| There's angles to socialization. If a person with brain
| issues gets free doctor visits and a medicine, that is at
| cost to society.
|
| If they are safe to be around and are able to hold a job or
| have children, then there's societal benefits gained. One
| could consider the treatment costs as investments.
|
| If that person was untreated and they did something
| unpleasant or bad in public, or ended up in prison, that
| also has a cost to society though it might be more complex
| to quantify.
| lostmsu wrote:
| You are assuming treatment benefits, but the comment was
| about "recreational" use and its consequences.
| dtj1123 wrote:
| Does that line of reasoning extend to things like fast food
| and motorcycles in your eyes? Not trying to undermine your
| point, just genuinely curious.
| patcon wrote:
| > things like fast food and motorcycles in your eyes?
|
| motorcycles...? in... my eyes?
|
| What wizardry is this? First "computers in my brain", now
| this. I'll have the singularity that you're smoking pls
| :)
|
| EDIT: was at first genuinely confused, and then tickled
| by my own misunderstanding
| lostmsu wrote:
| I don't see why not. Maybe no need to ban altogether, but
| a heavy tax on both might be useful. For motorbikes maybe
| just exclude accidents from coverage.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I guess they aren't very widespread anymore, but should
| this cover police who ride motorbikes? Or farm/ranch
| workers (they might ride ATVs)?
|
| I guess we could do something like:
| <normal coverage> - <adjustment for risky behavior> +
| <adjustment for pro-social outcomes>
|
| But I think we will have trouble puzzling out the last
| term!
| lostmsu wrote:
| One has to draw the line somewhere. What you are doing is
| called a slippery slope fallacy.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I'm not sure it is a slippery slope. With a slippery
| slope we expand the scenario through a sequence of "if X,
| when what's to stop Y," right?
|
| Motorcycle cops are an obvious subset of people who ride
| motorcycles. It isn't an extension at all to include them
| in your logic.
|
| ATVs might be more of an extension. But, I bet if we
| wanted to we could find all sorts of jobs that are more
| dangerous than motorcycle riding.
|
| (Edit: just to be specific, you say we have to draw the
| line somewhere. Well, then where?)
| lostmsu wrote:
| There's a long list of topics where this particular
| reasoning could draw a line somewhere. It is unfeasible
| and pointless to cover them all unless they are all
| banned or all allowed (this essentially is the current
| state +- AFAIK).
|
| I'd say it is worth looking at redrawing that based on
| the maximum effect achieved. Drugs would be at the top of
| this list, followed by motor vehicle use and unhealthy
| foods. There is probably not enough justification to go
| beyond the 3.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I'm not clear on what the effect actually is. If it is
| cost reduction, not sure where motorcycles should be on
| the list (they are probably more costly for life
| insurance agencies than for health insurance ones...).
|
| I guess I've been beating around the bush, but my point
| is that targeting drugs specifically for this sort of
| thing would seem kind of, I dunno, puritanical to me (as
| someone who doesn't partake). I'd rather just insure
| everybody and hope they don't hurt themselves, just out
| of their own self interest.
| daedrdev wrote:
| I think motorcyclists should pay more for health
| insurance insurance considering they will use it way more
| often no matter how well a driver they are, the risks are
| simply always present.
| aeonik wrote:
| If they die more often in accidents, and their organs are
| harvested from that, they should pay less though, right?
| wbl wrote:
| Four entered the garden: Ben Azzi, Ben Zoma, Acher and Akiva.
| One looked and died. One looked and was harmed. One cut down
| all the trees. And one entered in peace and departed in
| peace.
| mock-possum wrote:
| Lemme guess, Ben Zoma was the peaceful one?
| aradox66 wrote:
| Nope! Rabbi Akiva, who, as the story goes, was an
| illiterate shepherd until he started studying in his 40s,
| and went on to become one of the most renowned scholars
| of his era. This is why some Jewish tradition teaches
| that for mystical study, one should wait until the age of
| 40
| aswegs8 wrote:
| I didn't know this story, but thanks for pointing this out.
| It's scary how people in this thread talk about
| hallucinogens like they could not ruin your life.
|
| Citing Sam Harris:
|
| "Ingesting a powerful dose of a psychedelic drug is like
| strapping oneself to a rocket without a guidance system.
| One might wind up somewhere worth going, and, depending on
| the compound and one's "set and setting," certain
| trajectories are more likely than others. But however
| methodically one prepares for the voyage, one can still be
| hurled into states of mind so painful and confusing as to
| be indistinguishable from psychosis."
|
| "This is not to say that everyone should take psychedelics.
| As I will make clear below, these drugs pose certain
| dangers. Undoubtedly, some people cannot afford to give the
| anchor of sanity even the slightest tug."
| diggan wrote:
| > Keeping them somewhat less accessible
|
| I agree this is important, which is why psychedelics should be
| legalized so there is at least some sort of control instead of
| the current approach where 14 year olds can easier get their
| hands on it.
| Etheryte wrote:
| I'm of very two minds on this topic. On one hand, it's widely
| accepted that most (not to say all) drugs leave a permanent
| mark on brains that are not yet fully developed, so teenagers
| who are often most curious about these things. Gated access is
| highly desirable in this context, especially as you can't take
| self regulation for granted. On the other hand, many of these
| substances show great promise in many clinical trials for a
| wide variety of issues, and decades of hostile legislation has
| kept all of that on the back foot. Openly sharing information
| about these topics can help people make more informed choices
| whereas those who came before them often had to go it blind.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| Yeah - I feel like we need a little bit more of a stripped
| down approach to drugs in the US. If you're 18 or under,
| there need to be a lot of restrictions because we know for a
| fact that a lot of these things have a profound negative
| impact on brain development, and we also know that we don't
| even fully understand the extent to which various mind
| altering substances can impact development. It's just safer
| to say "no" until then as much as I am loath to endorse
| anything remotely akin to prohibition culture.
|
| Teens will always get their hands on things so it's up to
| parents to teach kids how to be safe around drugs and
| alcohol, but I know I personally will be really trying to
| communicate to my kids that they need to wait until they're
| 18 to really start exploring all this stuff. I know they will
| before that, but as long as it's a little experimentation
| here and there and not regular use I'll consider it a
| success.
|
| Once you're past 18 or so, it needs to be all about education
| and general availability for most substances. Safe usage and
| community protections (such as not driving while intoxicated)
| should be the #1 goal.
| 512 wrote:
| > I know they will before that
|
| I'm curious in what demographic/location context you're in
| to say that. As a teen I wasn't aware of anyone in my
| social circles experimenting with drugs and would estimate
| usage to be <10% and from very particular kinds of people.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| Teenagers (in the US) before they go to college pretty
| typically at least try weed and alcohol at some point.
| Whether or not they tell their parents is a different
| story entirely
| jjcob wrote:
| I was on a student exchange in the US at age ~15 and was
| offered both weed and alcohol. Funnily enough, weed
| seemed to be easier to get since dealers don't care about
| your age. For alcohol you needed to find someone older
| than 21 who'd buy it for you.
| justinrubek wrote:
| I'd be interested in seeing specifics on brain development.
| When are they "fully developed" or what is a sufficient point
| that they could be considered to be. What other things do we
| practice that should be gated around brain development?
| t-3 wrote:
| I disagree. Every time I've seen someone get a "bad trip",
| they're people who read a lot and worked themselves into a
| state of anxiety over the fact that something could go wrong.
| If they had just approached it like "ooh lets get high and have
| fun" rather than "I have to do X, Y, Z or else it's going to be
| horrible!", they would have probably been OK. Hallucinogens
| have _way_ too much gatekeeping and mysticalization around them
| for what they are.
|
| Understanding the risks of buying potentially adulterated or
| counterfeit products is another thing entirely, which would be
| helped greatly by increased commodification and legalization.
| hampowder wrote:
| Whilst that might true as per your observations, I've also
| seen people do zero research, take a substance in the wrong
| place/frame of mind, and subsequently had a more turbulent
| experience than they were expecting
| patcon wrote:
| Yes to both.
|
| We often attract certain types of people, and have a wealth
| of experience with that type.
|
| We probably all take this as obvious knowledge. But only
| when I uncomfortably enter a group of people unlike me --
| and feel totally alienated not just by their norms and
| assumptions, but their misunderstandings of my own -- only
| then do I truly confront the implications in a visceral,
| non-academic sense :)
| esseph wrote:
| That's true with anything, though.
| colecut wrote:
| I know two people who had prolonged psychotic episodes, as
| in, for weeks they were in their own world. These were both
| people who had many fun/enjoyable experiences beforehand.
|
| I myself have had bad / hell like experiences a small
| percentage of the time, despite literal hundreds of good
| experiences prior.
|
| Becoming a father many years ago significantly altered my
| trip experience.
|
| Dosage also plays a strong role..
|
| These things are generally less toxic than alcohol and it is
| criminal to punish someone for having them or using them..
| But they are also extremely powerful, and despite potential
| amazing experiences, do carry risks.
|
| And they are definitely not for everyone.
| Bnichs wrote:
| Can you explain how it changed after being a father?
| colecut wrote:
| I tripped a lot in my early 20s, a whole lot, and never
| had a bad time. Well, I had some uncomfortable
| experiences, but not what I can now call a bad trip.
|
| One of my first times after, in my experience, I
| literally went to hell. I was convinced I was on the
| outskirts, all the people at the party around me were
| demons, I was about to be tortured forever, and I was
| never going to see my son again and he was going to grow
| up without me..
|
| I convinced myself I was in that position because I had
| wrecked and killed someone, and my punishment was forever
| replaying the experiencing of a life where I would grow
| up to have a son, only to have him ripped away from me,
| reminded of what I did, and then tortured for some nearly
| eternal amount of time....
|
| Any conversations people had with me at the time, I heard
| the words they were saying but completely twisted the
| meaning of the words to fit whatever crazy narrative was
| going on in my head.
|
| This has happened 4 or 5 times. Despite being familiar
| with the experience, in my mind it just reinforces that I
| am in a "loop" at the time, about to be tortured again..
|
| It's happened with LSD, Mushrooms, and surprisingly even
| ketamine. *edit it also happened during an intense changa
| experience with a shaman in Tijuana, which was my most
| intense experience with anything to date..
|
| You'd think I would not take this stuff anymore =p I have
| at least slowed down considerably...
| copperx wrote:
| Regarding your trip to hell, I'm interested to know if
| you have a lifelong belief in heaven and hell, or if it
| came by itself during the trip.
|
| As an atheist with no supernatural beliefs (that I know
| of), I wonder if a trip on LSD for me would just be
| boring, or if these supernatural things become real
| during a trip even if you don't truly believe in them.
| colecut wrote:
| I am definitely influenced by Christianity..
|
| Regardless of your beliefs, whatever your experience, I
| highly doubt you would find it "boring".
|
| I can't even imagine that really, it would take a very
| boring person.
|
| I've heard a lot of acid stories, but never "I was just
| kind of bored"
| dekhn wrote:
| It's unlikely you'd find it boring simply because you're
| an atheist. The experience is typically quite intense,
| although it's dose-dependent as well as setting-
| dependent. I'm agnostic but my own experience was a
| heightened sense of panpsychism which went away later,
| because my rational, scientific mind didn't find the idea
| highly plausible.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Also worth noting that persistent negative effects do not
| require a bad trip. You can have a wonderful time and still
| have long lasting issues.
| turnsout wrote:
| I have a family member who jumped off a balcony on LSD and
| needed extensive reconstructive facial surgery. I'd call that
| a pretty bad trip. It's kind of kept me away from anything
| more than mushrooms.
| Someone wrote:
| It also makes doing your homework a lot harder. If I want to
| buy alcohol, I can go to a shop and can get something that's
| correctly labeled with an alcohol percentage and is highly
| unlikely to contain methanol.
|
| If I go buy some psychedelic, chances are it is diluted or
| laced, so I would have to know how to test that what they sell
| me is what I asked for.
| allears wrote:
| There are jurisdictions where it's legal, and shops that will
| ship it virtually anywhere. The product is pure, tested, and
| consistent.
|
| Of course you have to find such a shop (hint: try Canada),
| and it's still a lot of hassle for something that should be
| perfectly legal, and is, in many places.
| throwforfeds wrote:
| The thing that bothers me the most are the companies out here
| trying to get psychedelics to a state where they own the tech
| and can try to make as much money as possible off of it. Not so
| much the part where it becomes more available with consistent
| quality for more users.
|
| I was getting ads for MindMed's clinical trials of their LSD
| analogue a few months back and was considering signing up for
| it, as I'm totally down with more scientific research on these
| compounds. However, the idea that a corporation with a patent
| on an analogue that is lobbying to make it so their version is
| the one that is approved is kinda the worst. We already have
| LSD, it's cheap and it's amazing, yet here we are marching down
| the road of some patented version being the one that's approved
| for use. I get that these companies want to fund research, but
| this isn't the way.
| jamal-kumar wrote:
| Welcome to the USA. Psychedelics are just the tip of an
| iceberg here. There's shit like highly effective cough
| medicines or antidepressants available in other countries
| which show promise in saving lives but nope mired in patent
| stuff and corrupt regulation...
|
| https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/european-cough-
| medicine-...
| havefunbesafe wrote:
| The high horse of HN generally suggests that every person on
| the planet does empirical research on every step of their
| journey through life. I've personally seen several, otherwise
| normal people, one-shot their brain into purgatory with
| hallucinogens.
| jexe wrote:
| Incidental gatekeeping by leaving it on the black market isn't
| the way to keep it safe, quite the opposite - that poses a lot
| of dangerous risks.
|
| Bringing it into the light under thoughtful consideration and
| openly discussing and encouraging harm prevention is the only
| way to make this safe. Everyone should have the right to to
| exploring this if they want to, and there should be plenty of
| open discussion, research, and education. I really appreciate
| the open-source approach here, the spirit of this movement
| feels like the right thing for humanity.
| flufluflufluffy wrote:
| I feel similar about this productisation but for slightly
| different reasons. Psychedelics can provide a sacred
| experience, at least they have for me, and I treat each
| psychedelic experience I have as a sacred ritual. It's a
| sacrament. So forcing them into the materialist, capitalist
| system we currently have just feels so wrong. It'd be like a
| company coming out with pre-blessed Eucharist cookies. But
| worse because what you are shown so often reveals how insidious
| capitalism is, and how there is so much more than the material
| realm. I know this is just my personal view and experience.
| Anyway, I don't feel so bad about LightWand as the whole point
| was the open source, sharing nature.
| mock-possum wrote:
| I'm fine with 'less accessible' - I am not fine with
| 'criminal.'
| dkarl wrote:
| > Keeping them somewhat less accessible tends to filter out
| people who don't do their homework
|
| I strongly disagree. Your circles might be different, but in my
| experience, wanting to do your homework makes it less
| accessible, because it tends to put you at odds with the people
| who are otherwise eager to grant you access. They want people
| with a certain mindset and an up-front faith in the process.
| They want people who aren't careful about ingesting
| psychoactive substances, are eager to put their mental health
| in the hands of some guy they barely know, and are going to
| blame their own baggage or spiritual shortcomings if it doesn't
| go well.
|
| These drugs, and many others, are already pretty accessible if
| you are willing to take that heedless approach.
|
| In contrast, the approach described in the article is expressly
| tailored for people who want to be careful and do their
| homework. It's for people who have access to the drug and
| implicitly already have access to cruder ways of using it, but
| who want to put in extra effort for a more controlled
| experience.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Basically this. Many times I've gotten too casual with them and
| then been reminded that they are not a party drug. Persistent
| HPPD(ok, redundant) and long lasting anxiety and/or motor
| issues(tics).. inability to focus. It's great that there are
| people who can gobble psychs like candy and not have
| issues(that they're aware of anyway) but they need to chill on
| trying to get everyone to trip out. I get it. I felt that
| "everyone should try this" vibe. But seriously, no. Don't take
| people's psychology lightly.
| fedeb95 wrote:
| thinking that our own judgement is better than a doctor
| judgement, supported by a vast community and shared knowledge, is
| epistemically interesting. Beware that I'm not saying that
| doctors, or the scientific community, can't be wrong, everyone
| can be wrong, even ourselves.
|
| Personally, I'd rather have a proper doctor prescribe me said
| medicine than take it myself.
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| I'd say it's irrelevant. Doctors typically have no exposure,
| interest nor knowledge about these things. So they are not the
| ones to have an opinion about it.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| We should fix that then. (Timothy Leary was in fact a doctor.
| Perhaps though his overly zealous enthusiasm for LSD makes
| him not the ideal example in this case though.)
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| Not sure tbh. This is still in its infancy and not "stable"
| enough for a bigger adoption rate. So while we're still
| researching I feel like it's ok that we don't get it out to
| the masses.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| In an ideal world maybe, but in the real world, most doctors
| are conditioned by US propaganda and the War on Drugs. Their
| views are compromised.
|
| Furthermore, I've had mixed experiences with health
| professionals. It took me 10 years across multiple clinics and
| states to get diagnosed with gout that I've had since at least
| my late teens. Laughed out of multiple doctor's offices because
| I'm a "healthy young male" even though each day and night was
| filled with excruciating pain and drastically reduced mobility.
| "Full test panels" that _specifically_ did not test my uric
| acid, because no healthy young male has gout.
|
| No mention of gout ever to me, of course. I had to self
| diagnose as the disease progressed due to lack of treatment.
| Got my diagnosis confirmed by a physician's assistant, because
| both doctors at that clinic were on vacation at the same time
| for like the third time that quarter. He ordered a uric acid
| test, and was surprised that I'd never been offered one.
|
| Both doctors had _literally_ laughed me out of the office over
| the previous months. But I was persistent and it turns out the
| physician 's assistant there was both more thorough and more
| knowledgeable than either doctor, helping me finally begin a
| path to treatment. I was damn near about to kill myself from a
| decade of extraordinary pain. From my discussions with older,
| typical gout sufferers, my case is extraordinarily bad and most
| of them only experience mild pain.
|
| It's equally as silly to place 100% trust in doctors as it is
| to place 0% trust in them.
| z3c0 wrote:
| When there's millions of doctors, not only are there going to
| be more mediocre doctors than anything, but there has to be a
| bottom of the barrel as well.
|
| It took me years to be diagnosed with PTSD, a problem I knew
| I had. Because I am not a vet, I had to go through every
| other diagnosis first -- schizo, bipolar, borderline -- each
| with a new set of pills to take. Some of the shrinks who
| diagnosed me wouldn't do anything but open my file, make some
| remarks, and fill out a prescription, with nary any eye
| contact.
|
| Finally got a very expensive doctor who wasn't under the
| thumb of insurance companies. Her first question, upon
| hearing my issues, was "how is your sleep?" "I don't, really"
| was my reply. Screened me for PTSD and I clocked 76/80 pts.
| She set me up with the proper therapy, and within a year, I
| was screening at 30/80 pts. All it took was asking me one
| question that wasn't loaded towards the doctors favorite
| diagnosis & prescription.
| 1718627440 wrote:
| Isn't every medicine a drug, since a drug with medical
| application in the right dose is just called medicine?
| hiddencost wrote:
| Given that the current regime is bringing back measles, appeals
| to authority are becoming fraught.
| AyyEye wrote:
| After seeing someone I love tortured for weeks at a hospital
| primarily because every one of the doctors was convinced they
| knew better than her -- I'm very much on the 'we can do just
| fine on our own' train. Do some research, use good sources, let
| docs stop you from bleeding out if it comes to that.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > thinking that our own judgement is better than a doctor
| judgement, supported by a vast community and shared knowledge,
| is epistemically interesting.
|
| The medical community is concerned with physical health, mental
| health, ect.
|
| The Psychedelic community is more like a religion; it is "vast"
| and there is a lot of "shared knowledge" if you go looking. The
| thing is, western medicine's purpose really isn't to do the
| kind of thing that psychedelics are for.
|
| It's probably better not to conflate the two communities,
| because they use drugs for very different purposes.
|
| A different way to say it: Don't confuse the pharmacy and the
| liquor store.
| esseph wrote:
| This is absolutely /bullshit/.
|
| That medical doctor doesn't even know how most of the
| medications work, or why!
|
| If it was just about "health" a lot of things with our modern
| medical care would be different.
| 1718627440 wrote:
| Isn't this what the years-long studies and rigorous state
| examination is for? How would they selecting medication,
| when they wouldn't know the mechanism of action?
| corry wrote:
| I agree with you for the most part. But the same medical
| establishment that pumped opioids everywhere, demonized fat
| instead of sugar, claimed tobacco was fine, overprescribed
| mental health drugs, etc is perhaps not a slam-dunk example of
| why we should trust the "expert consensus" on emerging
| treatments and techniques.
|
| Compounding the issue is the eye-rolling hypocrisy that in the
| so-called "Land of the Free", a healthcare system controlled by
| the gatekeepers of big pharma and for-profit companies gets a
| blind pass... but putting certain plants (that you can grow
| yourself) into your own body is considered a serious felony...?
|
| There's at least a sliver of daylight here that mean YMMV
| (which I'm sure you and I would agree on) - but if you lack the
| freedom to choose anyways, then it doesn't matter. And the
| people who decide for you are clearly part of a system that is
| compromised by regulatory capture, political polarization, and
| the insatiable greed of American healthcare.
| spjt wrote:
| With things the way they are, it's not hard to be more
| knowledgeable about a condition than your doctor. Doctors have
| to know about all the possible conditions people can have, I
| only have to know about the one I have, so I've spent more time
| researching it than the doctor.
|
| If you don't know what's wrong with you, then a doctor is
| absolutely the way to go. But if you already have a diagnosis,
| you can go spend time researching it, the doctor isn't going to
| do that.
| croisillon wrote:
| the first pic looks like Jobs and Bill Watterson
| WillAdams wrote:
| For the technological context and result:
|
| https://www.folklore.org/Joining_Apple_Computer.html
|
| Still very sad that HyperCard got sidelined and that even its
| successor, Livecode abandoned the idea of being available to
| everyone --- though it looks as if folks are still working that:
|
| https://openxtalk.org/
| wvlia5 wrote:
| This is off-topic, we are discussing drugs here.
| LocalH wrote:
| It's not off-topic, it's the intersection of two things that
| Bill Atkinson was extremely passionate about.
| phaedryx wrote:
| Hypercard was inspired by an LSD trip.
| Ylpertnodi wrote:
| Perhaps the gp's comment was written and posted whilst being
| smashed, and that's just one of the effects.
| WillAdams wrote:
| which the link in question references:
|
| >Inspired by a mind-expanding LSD journey in 1985, I designed
| the HyperCard authoring system that enabled non-programmers
| to make their own interactive media.
| Euphorbium wrote:
| I have not used 5-meo, but for n,n DMT the vape is without a
| doubt the most convenient method.
| gavinray wrote:
| I've done it a few times. Unlike DMT, you don't have to
| vaporize it.
|
| It's active intranasally and well as buccally/sublingually.
|
| Effects-wise, it feels roughly identical to DMT but with a
| longer duration.
| fer wrote:
| I found it significantly less visual. As in, about as
| immersive, but somewhat lacking visual depth/detail to
| things. But everyone's different anyway.
| gehwartzen wrote:
| To me it feels like a completely different drug compared to
| nnDMT. 5-meo-DMT also feels very different depending on the
| roa from my experience (vaped vs IM)
| wvlia5 wrote:
| Expand on roa effect difference?
| gavinray wrote:
| Ah, a fellow "I've IM'ed tryptamines" person.
|
| I made this mistake exactly once, with 4-AcO-DMT.
|
| That was the last time I ever did such a thing.
| Euphorbium wrote:
| Can you expand on this? I just so happen to have
| evrything to try this, but never even considered it.
| gavinray wrote:
| I dissolved 20mg of 4-AcO-DMT in 1mL of bacteriostatic
| water in a sealed, sterile vial and then injected it
| intramuscularly into my glute.
|
| (If you do this, make sure you inject the upper-outer
| quadrant. The closer to your midline you go, the further
| the risk of you hitting a nerve.)
|
| If you're very experienced and want to do it for
| novelty's sake, go for it; I'd warn you, but anyone
| considering this should know what they're likely in for.
|
| Nearly immediately after injection, I became so filled
| with vibrating, psychedelic energy I thought my soul was
| going to be ripped from my body. I had to clutch the edge
| of the sink, trying not to vomit while staring at the
| exploding fractals swirling in the metallic reflection.
|
| It only lasts about 2 hours. I'd not particularly rate
| the experience as "good".
| esseph wrote:
| Thank you for this, astral traveler
| temp0826 wrote:
| As someone who has done a lot of both (as well as drank
| ayahuasca several hundred times), they are completely
| different animals especially at the full-dose levels.
| turnsout wrote:
| Several hundred times? There's a story there...
| temp0826 wrote:
| Maybe, maybe not. It's just life when you work at a
| center :)
| franze wrote:
| I used that exact same image for ma Atkinson Dithering Algo
| Learning Page https://atkinson.franzai.com/
| _fat_santa wrote:
| We need to push to make this stuff legal. I wouldn't go so far as
| to say lets sell it OTC vape pens at gas stations but a middle
| ground where you can go to a doctor to have this treatment
| performed.
|
| I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've
| read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken
| lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to
| would be the best middle ground of allowing the public access to
| these substances while also ensuring that there is a trained
| professional there to guide you through the process.
|
| Saying "trained professional" in this context feels wired because
| this stuff has been underground for so long but I think it's
| starting to bubble up into the mainstream enough that we need to
| start bringing all that "into the light". Lets have training
| programs that teach people how to administer this stuff properly,
| how to deal with the negative side effects, etc.
|
| One of the things that while I find understandable is ridiculous
| is the fact that Bill had to use a pseudonym in the community. I
| feel like if were at the point where you have C-suite types at
| Apple taking this stuff, it's time to think about making it
| available to the broader public.
| temp0826 wrote:
| Fwiw, "DMT" usually refers to nn-DMT, which is a lot different
| than 5-MeO-DMT (or bufo).
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| Agree, but the proponents of "Big Reality" _really really
| really_ fight against its disruption.
| pdabbadabba wrote:
| Could you explain what you mean by that? Who are the
| proponents of "big reality"? How do they fight against its
| disruption?
| gregschlom wrote:
| It's a joke. People often have conspiracy theories about
| Big Pharma trying to prevent access to novel drugs that
| could disrupt their cash cows. The parent was jokingly
| talking about "Big Reality" as an imaginary group of people
| who hate to see "reality" disrupted by psychedelic
| experiences.
| colecut wrote:
| I took it as being a joke in the way "the matrix" was "a
| movie"
| aeon_ai wrote:
| When someone has a profound psychedelic experience that
| shows them the arbitrary nature of many social
| constructs, or reveals possibilities for consciousness
| that mainstream science doesn't acknowledge... that's
| genuinely disruptive to systems built on those
| constructs.
|
| The resistance is real, systematic, and rational (from
| the perspective of maintaining current power
| arrangements). Not a joke.
| jonathanlb wrote:
| I'm curious whether you think that resistance is
| genuinely adversarial or more based on ignorance and
| institutional inertia.
|
| For example, someone might have insights about the
| interconnectedness of all life and wants to transition to
| regenerative agriculture or communal land use, but face
| zoning laws that enforce individual property ownership.
| Or someone might experience ego dissolution and wants to
| create more egalitarian workplace structures, but runs
| into rigid corporate hierarchies.
| aeon_ai wrote:
| Moloch devours breakthrough potential not through
| conspiracy but through everyone rationally optimizing for
| their individual/local situation while collectively
| producing suboptimal outcomes.
|
| Individual insight doesn't map to institutional action.
| Systems can't integrate experiences they can't measure or
| systematize.
|
| I do think that there are _some_ truths to government
| desire for narrative management, too. It is unwise to be
| a hugger in a knife fight, and you don 't want the
| populace to get high, see God, and deteriorate national
| security.
|
| All in all though, it all boils down to life being
| complicated. The resistance isn't adversarial - it's
| structural. Which makes it both less intentionally evil
| and harder to overcome.
| buildsjets wrote:
| As RAW wrote in Cosmic Trigger: "Why does the gnosis
| always get busted?"
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| Psychedelics challenge the post-Enlightenment project of
| "rational" adulthood. Western civilization has a deep myth:
| the myth of necessary order - a yoking of rationality,
| order, and progress together into what forms the basis for
| modernity. Psychedelics cannot have intrinsic value outside
| of rationality, so, they must either be accepted on the
| basis of rationality and order or face rejection. We
| express this using the rational basis of improved mental
| health. The contradiction of course is obvious;
| psychedelics provide us with profoundly irrational
| experiences that don't obviously fit into our cultural
| value system.
|
| The point is that western civilization values rationality,
| order, and progress in a self-justifying way. The values
| that our culture provides to us form a feedback cycle of
| myth and virtue. Every argument that assumes this basis,
| reinforces its truth.
|
| "Order is _obviously_ preferable to chaos ", is one of many
| subjective perspectives. Why should it hold more truth than
| "Plurality of perspectives are obviously preferable to the
| fragility of one perspective for the sake of objectivity"?
| The apparatuses of the state[1] all rely on the same
| cultural myth and promote it in a way that crowds out all
| possible alternatives. Thus the myth of necessary order has
| become synonymous with reality.
|
| Like all deeply rooted cultural myths, this is something
| that's going to appear obviously true which coincidentally
| serves as a way of shielding it from honest critique. If
| there's one thing that I've learned, it's that questioning
| foundational myths feels like a cultural violation. Rene
| Girard's theory holds; when a community is anxious or
| unstable, it lashes out most viciously at people who
| somehow threaten its central, but unspoken, truths or
| anxieties. The greater the received response that a
| cultural axiom obviously true; the more certain I am that
| it reflects a core cultural myth than any semblance of
| reality.
|
| 1. See Louis Althusser, Ideology and Ideological State
| Apparatuses, 1970.
| rekttrader wrote:
| That's an amazing sentence...
| lukan wrote:
| "I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would
| be the best middle ground "
|
| Well, Ayahuasca (with DMT as the active ingredient) retreats
| seem more and more common and are for some reasons tolerated
| more and more in europe. Technically it is illegal, but I can
| still book them online.
|
| But I won't, as I don't trust the competence of the average new
| age "shaman".
| copperx wrote:
| I dislike the idea of potential life threatening toxicity,
| the constant vomiting, the feeling like shit for days.
|
| Ayahuasca trips seem to be like edging with poison. But maybe
| the documentary I saw was biased.
| evmar wrote:
| The state of Oregon is experimenting along these lines:
|
| https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/preventionwellness/pages/psilo...
|
| "A client may only access psilocybin at a licensed service
| center during an administration session in the presence of a
| trained, licensed facilitator."
| hncomment wrote:
| Oregon had gone with a broader decriminalization as of
| February 1, 2021, but rolled that back in 2024:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Oregon_Ballot_Measure_110
| chrisweekly wrote:
| "wired" -> weird
| GuinansEyebrows wrote:
| immediately jogged my memory for one of my favorite stupid
| Simpsons moments:
|
| "why, there's no magazine _called_ 'Weird' is there?" [0]
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZ0GBL9ArA
| mosburger wrote:
| Last year I underwent treatments for my treatment-resistant
| major depression using Ketamine. It was a clinical setting,
| where you'd get wired up to blood pressure, pulse-ox, and other
| monitors while you were monitored by an RN via video camera.
| This was IV Ketamine, so not the inhalants that are available
| now. According to the clinic, the inhalants (which they also
| offered) are also generally less effective than IV, and the IV
| was safer in my case because I have other medical conditions
| where being able to "shut it off" was a good thing - you can
| turn an IV off, but once you inhale, you're on your own.
|
| So... this clinic was not entirely unlike what you're proposing
| w/ DMT.
|
| FWIW, the results were incredible. I was effectively "cured."
| But unfortunately my insurance changed, and it became no longer
| covered, and I couldn't afford the $2000 every six weeks for
| the treatment anymore. And it's not super convenient to take
| two hours off from work to go to the trip-sitter's to get the
| treatments.
|
| I hope that they figure out what it is in psychadelics that
| make them effective at treating stuff like depression and PTSD
| and make it more accessible because it seems like there's so
| much potential there.
|
| (Also: fuck Elon Musk for making Ketamine a punchline)
| copperx wrote:
| I like the potential healing value of Ketamine.
|
| But that doesn't make replacing every instance of ketamine
| with "horse tranquilizer" any less funny.
| shpongled wrote:
| N,N-DMT is very intense and not to be taken lightly - but you
| could say the same with LSD, psilocybin, etc. Personally, I am
| much more wary of large doses of LSD/psilocybin than DMT, in
| part to the substantially longer duration of the former. Ego
| death and the complete dissolution of reality makes it harder
| to have a bad trip
| gavinray wrote:
| I'd generally agree with you, but: >
| substantially longer duration of the former
|
| When time stops until the end of this universe gives way to
| the beginning of this universe and the snake eats it's tail,
| "longer" doesn't hold much meaning...
| shpongled wrote:
| True, I should have qualified "actual" duration, not
| perceived duration!
| hncomment wrote:
| A wise legalization might help with access & harm-reduction...
| but legalizations are sometimes bungled.
|
| In the SF bay area - & plenty of other regions around the world
| - the criminal enforcement against hallucinogens is, de facto,
| a very low priority as long as you're not flagrantly
| endangering or inconveniencing others.
| tiahura wrote:
| I can't tell you the number of times I've thought that what this
| country needs is more druggies running around.
| criddell wrote:
| More people like Bill Atkinson? That sounds good to me.
| knowaveragejoe wrote:
| How can you look at this and think "druggies"?
| jobs_throwaway wrote:
| More people like Bill Atkinson and Steve Jobs sounds great to
| me!
| edm0nd wrote:
| these are the 'good' type of drugs though
| damnesian wrote:
| Am I the only person who read the article like this: "blah blah
| BOTH BILL ATKINSON AND STEVE JOBS DIED FROM PANCREATIC CANCER
| blah blah"?
| duckbot3000 wrote:
| Steve Jobs tried to treat his cancer by eating apples and
| ignoring the diagnosis until it was too late... not sure if
| that's really connected to psychedelics
| wvlia5 wrote:
| I'm developing a much more advanced digital device (like bicycle
| to spaceship compared to this). I'm currently blocked by
| chemistry issues.
| nonelog wrote:
| While DMT definitively has its merits (and is produced naturally
| in the human body), know also that Psilocybin allows for an
| increases of the human lifespan of over 50%, which is absolutely
| massive. [0]
|
| It's entirely natural, easy to do, has no side effects, costs
| next to nothing, and can even be "fun". As usual, the media will
| not talk about this discovery, as it is too much of a game-
| changer for our current systems.
|
| [0] https://neurosciencenews.com/psilocybin-longevity-
| aging-2942...
| ashalhashim wrote:
| I assume this comment is trolling. But to be clear to readers,
| the link states psilocybin 50% increase in lifespan of human
| skin etc. not human lifespan.
| nonelog wrote:
| "[...] extended the cellular lifespan of _human skin and lung
| cells_ by more than 50% "
|
| If we assume that the effect is the same for all types of
| cells, it follows that the life is extended by 50% (when
| keeping "all other factors" constant, as usual).
| nick__m wrote:
| It has to also down-regulate cells divisions, else it could
| be quite problematic.
| demaga wrote:
| I feel like someone is trying really hard to push public
| perception of psychedelics towards "acceptable". I don't know who
| it benefits, but this is a really weird Overton window.
|
| I wouldn't say a word if it weren't nth article about
| psychedelics that appears on HN frontpage. I was quiet the last
| n-1 times.
|
| If you google psilocybin right now, you can see articles that
| state how it "slows ageing" and "cures depression". There
| probably is some truth to it, but only in very specific sense and
| specific circumstances. Most people will NOT benefit from taking
| the drug (as with any drug).
|
| So it hurts my soul when I see words like "legalize" being thrown
| in this context. We know very very little about effect of such
| drugs. And the goal should not be to legalize, but rather to
| expand our knowledge on how it works, and create safe medicine
| that actually helps people.
|
| Rant is over now. Thank you.
| kloop wrote:
| > So it hurts my soul when I see words like "legalize" being
| thrown in this context. We know very very little about effect
| of such drugs.
|
| That seems like exactly when we should legalize it. The default
| is legal, and without definite knowledge of serious harm, that
| should be the status.
|
| The burden of proof should be on the people who want it to be
| legal, and by your comment, their case seems pretty weak.
| 1718627440 wrote:
| Sure, just let people use any weapon, we don't know for sure,
| if any particular bullet is mortal, maybe they don't cause
| any harm that time.
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| It's a lot easier to study if it's legal. It's also pretty hard
| to come up with a convincing placebo. The experience is also
| highly colored by "set and setting", and the clinical
| environment or office space is probably not ideal for this
| knowledge expansion..
|
| An article just came out showing that psilocybin extends life
| in aged mice, so that's why you're seeing it a lot. Yet we have
| no idea what causes this lifespan increase. Is it a result of
| "hallucination" experience itself , a purely chemical effect,
| or something in between? (aka will a 'bad trip' give the same
| effect on lifespan?)
|
| > Most people will NOT benefit from taking the drug (as with
| any drug)
|
| Now you're just making things up.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| That's something I'm really worried about, especially when SV
| is pushing it. And it is difficult to prove that research is
| unbiased.
|
| One of the commenters of your post says "If we legalize it we
| can better research it". Allow me to be rude -- this is BS. If
| we follow this logic we should legalize pretty much everything!
|
| I think it is polite to be rude to such dangerous thoughts.
| Downvote me as you see fit.
| allears wrote:
| But following your logic everything would be illegal! There's
| a whole lot we don't know about how aspirin works, for
| instance.
|
| Governments should not be in the business of banning things
| unless there's a clear and present danger. Citizens should
| have the autonomy to do risky things if they want to.
| nick__m wrote:
| Aspirin mechanisms is known since the late 1970s, it's a
| COX inhibitor.
|
| Acetaminophen is the one that still mysterious, there are
| credible theories but they don't explain everything the
| substance does. The latest one I know of is that one :
| https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2413811122
| justinrubek wrote:
| I think a blanket ban under schedule 1 stating that it has no
| acceptable use is dangerous. It's a clearly false designation
| and doesn't have evidence to back it up. This isn't a simple
| matter of a dangerous substance. This is a hard-core human
| rights violation.
| notarobot123 wrote:
| Related: Hypercard was inspired by an LSD trip which Bill
| explains in an interview
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdJKjBHCh18)
| DonHopkins wrote:
| HyperCard and Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror would be a match made
| in heaven!
|
| Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror (1985) (usc.edu)
|
| https://scalar.usc.edu/works/timothy-leary-software/index
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32578683
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oabRxvjf9k
|
| I extracted all the text and data from the Apple ][ floppy
| disk:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37486524
|
| https://donhopkins.com/home/mind-mirror.txt
|
| https://github.com/SimHacker/lloooomm/tree/main/00-Character...
| brainless wrote:
| I am on the fence with these topics because I have years of fear
| drilled into me. These topics are a taboo and I have rarely ever
| tried anything at all. The experiences did not ruin me, they made
| me more curious about my brain in a positive way. But the social
| taboo lingers.
|
| What surprises me the most is that we have accepted sugar,
| alcohol, cigarettes and a ton of mass manufactured food which are
| harming us. I am struggling with high blood glucose for 12 years.
| Yet, the substance which I can grow in my* own backyard and may
| actually not be as harmful is just brainwashed out of my limits.
|
| edits: you to me
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Is there that much of a social taboo? Maybe it's just the
| people I hang out with and work with, but most people are open
| to psychedelic use and a lot have at least tried some.
| skyyler wrote:
| Some people's conception of "normal people" is people on the
| bus or train.
|
| Some people's conception of "normal people" is people at a
| church ice cream social.
|
| Different perspectives, I think.
| lelandfe wrote:
| Yes, it's your bubble. There are American states still
| charging people over marijuana. Having grown up Christian I
| personally know people in their 30s who view psychedelic and
| _heroin_ users similarly. Those people would have the
| opposite view of you.
|
| Years back, my friend's parents asked me to stage an
| intervention for him after they found out he regularly took
| LSD. He was 19 at the time.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| I live in a Republican state where marijuana is illegal
| humpty-d wrote:
| Farm bill and delta-8 really flipped that whole table
| though
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Yeah, but our legislature banned that too
| marcelox86 wrote:
| Texas? :(
| dudeinjapan wrote:
| Growing up my friend's dad was a conservative christian and
| a frequent caller into conservative talk radio shows. There
| was a state referendum to legalize marijuana, so I asked
| what he thought. "Of course it should be legal. It says
| right there in Genesis--God said: I give you every herb
| bearing seed upon the Earth. What could be more clear-cut
| than that?"
| stego-tech wrote:
| As a similar "Boy Scout" of sorts, the fear is/was real. I
| didn't experiment with so much as nicotine or alcohol until I'd
| tried "stuff" with the supervision of an experienced "sitter";
| I ended up having some of the best times of my life in the
| safety and context of home and friendships. Combined with my
| own life experiences with drug abuse and addictions, I was able
| to build a healthy relationship with those substances that
| didn't result in dependency or abuse.
|
| In the time since, my views have changed dramatically on these
| substances, and I'd like to try more of them. However, my
| personal moral compass prevents me from using substances
| outside of a legally permissible setting, at least at present -
| and that's something I'm fine with.
|
| Ultimately, the taboo side of things is something the
| individual has to grapple with on their own. I can only
| commiserate with your frustrations, not help overcome them
| unfortunately. My only other advice would be to use _any_
| substance only to amplify good vibes, never to cope with bad
| ones.
|
| If all you do is chase a lost feeling, you're missing out on
| what's in front of you now.
| jekwoooooe wrote:
| Without rigorous science and licensed professionals it would be
| insanity to take these drugs. They can potentially PERMANENTLY
| traumatize your brain possibly even _literally_ ruining your
| entire life. I guess that risk is worth it for some people
| Ylpertnodi wrote:
| Your concern is warranted, but a tad hyperbolic. Getting into
| a[n even minor] car crash, and thereafter recovery, can have
| equally devastating effects, as can being attacked by a dog.
| justinrubek wrote:
| [flagged]
| dang wrote:
| Can you please express your substantive points without
| getting personal? I'm sure you didn't intend to cross into
| personal attack but this comment is a step in that direction.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| bongodongobob wrote:
| I used to be very active in the hippy music scene. Permanent
| effects are exceedingly rare. I know people who trip fairly
| frequently and beyond some dreadlocks or tie dyed shirts off
| the clock, they are perfectly normal well adjusted people. You
| are being extremely hyperbolic.
| wtetzner wrote:
| I mean, so can alcohol.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| I'm skeptic about psychedelic. Is there enough unbiased research
| about these stuffs? I myself is interested in it too but so far
| it is in general illegal in Canada, and I don't consider myself
| knowledgeable enough to try it out.
| nick__m wrote:
| there are plenty of psychedelics legal in Canada, I know of a
| few chemical suppliers that specialize in this. It's been at
| least a decade since I last ordered from them, but they are
| still in bussines.
|
| However you said that your not knowledgeable and I guess that
| you doesn't have access to a milligrams scale, so your better
| to stay away and learn the theory first. A lot of psilocybin
| analog (alpha-MethylTryptamine was one of my favorite and it's
| still available) from Thikal are still legal in Canada so that
| book is a good place to start learning.
| xsmasher wrote:
| There is not enough research because, at least in the US, there
| was a blanket ban on any research since 1970 when most
| psychedelics were placed on "Schedule I" - meaning they had "no
| accepted medical use" and "high potential for abuse."
|
| "Big Reality" was either terrified of everyone becoming
| drooling monkeys, or people seeing behind the curtain of
| society, depending on who you ask.
| dare944 wrote:
| Off-topic, but I have to...
|
| (From the photo caption) "Bill ... with his iphone prototype"
|
| Nope. That's a Sony Magic Link, built by Bill (and others, myself
| included) during his time at General Magic. I feel General Magic
| is another one of Bill's endeavors that isn't widely understood
| or appreciated.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| There was a great documentary on Magic Leap!
| https://www.generalmagicthemovie.com
| Stratoscope wrote:
| That is a great documentary, but it's about General Magic,
| not Magic Leap.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Magic
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Leap
| dare944 wrote:
| Yep. I can be seen briefly in one scene, listening intently
| in the background while Marc Porat waxes poetic.
| piyiotisk wrote:
| This is my favourite documentary on tech! If you know more
| please let me know
| yyzaxle wrote:
| Hi there. I will correct the iPhone prototype reference. Thanks
| for the heads up. - Axle / www.patternproject.ca
| piyiotisk wrote:
| Who are you sir? I am a big fan of the general magicians
| dare944 wrote:
| My name is Jay. I guess I was one of the "lesser" magicians.
| I worked on the Telescript side, doing infrastructure for the
| Telescript engine. But I got to interact with both Bill and
| Andy, and Phil and Tony, who I followed to further ventures.
| My experience at General Magic was certainly eye opening and
| super educational.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| What if "dissolving the ego" is bad though?
| allears wrote:
| Thousands of years of Buddhist practice says it isn't
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Psychedelics are not some harmless cure-all. They can provide
| remarkable experiences, life affirming experiences and being
| quite effective against depression. They can also cause some
| pretty scary and bad times. So they need to be treated with
| respect. But I think they're well worth exploring.
| esseph wrote:
| I hope research with psilocybin, DMT, and other psychedelics
| continue and that some of these possible discoveries pan out.
|
| Example that just came across my news feed: "psilocin, a
| byproduct of consuming psilocybin, the active ingredient in
| psychedelic mushrooms, extended the cellular lifespan of human
| skin and lung cells by more than 50%."
|
| https://neurosciencenews.com/psilocybin-longevity-aging-2942...
| kmoser wrote:
| > His open-source approach democratized psychedelic exploration,
| shifting power away from costly retreats and elite gatekeepers
| toward broader accessibility.
|
| No surprise that, in keeping with the hacker spirit, Bill wanted
| to democratize information that is otherwise accessible only to
| "high" priests.
| trenbologna wrote:
| If you have ever had the experience you will want to share with
| the world and give everyone the opportunity to experience it.
| ComplexSystems wrote:
| Is this different from regular DMT?
| ge96 wrote:
| People talk about getting out of software and doing woodwork Now
| this... I've actually done DMT one time was crazy and instant the
| effects but brief. I did it at a dining room table with wooden
| grain and concentric ring placemats. I remember seeing my arm
| like wtf is that. And then the grain/rings moving. Even closing
| my eyes I'd see colors but was over in a couple minutes.
|
| What I had my friend made. Bought some root, had to use naptha to
| separate it in a fridge then put it (powder) on top of something
| flammable and smoke it like weed.
|
| Further thoughts:
|
| On a side note/comparison, weed for me it's like. Day to day
| you're driven by a known process/system. You have to get to work
| at 9 AM, go to this, then that. Smoking weed you stop and are in
| the moment, suddenly focused on how vibrant this red shrub is
| that you normally ignore. I don't smoke weed anymore because it
| makes me super paranoid like afraid cops are going to arrest me
| or I can't interact with people as I already have social anxiety.
| The other thing is it would enforce my delusions thinking some
| idea was great/fixate on some design (I was trying to use it to
| come up with ideas to make money).
|
| DMT is like losing steady state/reality, solid things start to
| move. The colors were not solid for me, it's like when you push
| your eyes (while closed) and you see flashes of light. This was a
| long time ago I did it so might not be remembering as well, it
| was intense though and brief.
|
| I have not done acid or shrooms as I have bad repressed childhood
| memories and I don't want to get stuck in that for hours.
|
| Did K one time, I just sat on a couch throughout a party doing
| nothing/sipping on a cup of water.
|
| K2/Salvia that stuff was whack, I felt like I was sinking into a
| couch when I smoked it in a shed with a buddy and I felt dumb
| like I couldn't talk correctly.
|
| C and Addy, amazing. I mean if you could operate life like that
| all the time you'd probably die just because you'd do crazy
| things like do a jump that you normally wouldn't just because of
| the overconfidence. But yeah the ability to sit down/cram 12 hrs
| of work and pass a test, amazing or nail every note on a guitar.
| The weight loss is great but I found my p would shrink so much it
| was crazy. At one point started to defecate blood (was just a
| fissure) so yeah that was a problem. I would use A for times when
| I couldn't get sleep and would just do these overnighters at a
| data-entry job.
|
| Also did M before (fake addy) and yeah, that's great for
| drinking, you can just pound beers/liquor and not feel it. The
| bad thing is the come downs, you are drained of happiness, can't
| do anything and it is hard to recover. A way to recover is to
| jerk off a lot. But yeah I don't do that anymore just because the
| sadness is crazy.
| hncomment wrote:
| Note that 'DMT' isn't a shortened name for '5-MeO-DMT'. While
| related, 'DMT' and '5-MeO-DMT' are different compounds, with
| different effects:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT#Effects
|
| https://qualiacomputing.com/2020/07/01/5-meo-dmt-vs-nn-dmt-t...
| ge96 wrote:
| I don't partake anymore, only drink nowadays and even that try
| to only do a day a week since it costs money but also I don't
| actually enjoy the taste of alcohol. I use it for the social
| aspect but then I do too much of it and do dumb things like
| climb buildings or try to fight people, go to strip clubs drop
| money I don't have. (I spent $1.2K one time it's bad since I go
| out to try and meet women)
|
| My other drug of choice is adrenaline from driving fast my car
| currently tops out just under 160mph and I'd go even faster if
| I could but maybe thankfully I can't. Fear is funny too, I
| don't fear this but I fear talking to people ha.
|
| I'm trying to stop this because the tickets part, I only screw
| around on highways when I'm alone and day time, I don't do
| swimming/cutting people off but yeah.
|
| The speed thing is easy get an old ZR1 it can go 200 but going
| in a straight line can be boring. It's the acceleration.
| Recently been watching this guy drive an Elise down roads in
| Switzerland that's pretty fun and not that fast. I know you can
| track too but idk.
| kragen wrote:
| Is the world's most powerful psychedelic the personal computer,
| or is it 5-MeO-DMT (Jaguar)? Not having tried the latter, and
| therefore speaking from a position of ignorance, I'm inclined
| toward the former. I think Timothy Leary agreed with me.
| dpc050505 wrote:
| Having experience with a lot of psychedelics it's completely
| ridiculous to put the personal computer in that category.
|
| Timothy Leary might've drawn a parallel on the psychological
| impact of computers (I have no idea on the exact quote or it's
| context), which is enormous, but computers are just not
| psychedelic.
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