[HN Gopher] Let Kids Be Loud
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Let Kids Be Loud
        
       Author : trevin
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2025-07-09 19:16 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.afterbabel.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.afterbabel.com)
        
       | ysavir wrote:
       | I live next door to a summer camp. The kind that has kids from
       | the nearby city come for 2 weeks, sleep in bunks, play outside
       | all day, hike, etc.
       | 
       | A few months ago we had a carpenter doing some work on the house,
       | and he was asking me about the camp and living so near to it.
       | Eventually he asked "Are they loud when they play? That must be
       | so annoying. I'd hate that."
       | 
       | I replied "Nah, it's healthy and fun, and it doesn't travel as
       | far as you'd think. The real annoying sounds are all the
       | lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools that people
       | keep using throughout the summer". He immediately went quiet and
       | sour. Guess I hit a nerve.
        
         | johnfn wrote:
         | Maybe because he was trying to make small talk and you insulted
         | his profession?
        
           | askafriend wrote:
           | Definitely this. A total lack of awareness and tact
           | demonstrated by OP.
        
             | justinrubek wrote:
             | This is a very ironic comment.
        
             | reverendsteveii wrote:
             | The point of the story is that OP is absolutely aware of
             | their lack of tact.
        
           | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
           | i can't tell how much of a point you're trying to make, but
           | if complaining about children playing is small talk, the less
           | of it the better.
        
           | the_cat_kittles wrote:
           | social skills of hn on display
        
           | gilfoy wrote:
           | The age old profession of generating small engine noise
           | pollution
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | If you work in computer science and tell that to your
             | carpenter, godspeed. There is a nonzero chance you wake up
             | without electricity the next day, and a note on your
             | kitchen counter reading "who needs a generator now?"
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | What?
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | Carpenters don't use many gasoline-powered tools...
        
             | askafriend wrote:
             | This is even funnier.
        
             | klank wrote:
             | Guess we had the same thought, I posted a similar comment.
             | It genuinely threw me for a loop cause I was trying to
             | figure out how OP actually said anything about carpentry...
        
             | mr_toad wrote:
             | Making furniture with chainsaws is a thing. Funnily enough
             | they used to call this hacking, rather than carpentry.
        
           | klank wrote:
           | OP mentioned "lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered
           | tools".
           | 
           | That has nothing to do with standard carpentry.
        
             | callc wrote:
             | The carpenter may have thought the same sentiment is being
             | applied to loud power tools such as table saw, jointer,
             | router, ...
        
               | nothrabannosir wrote:
               | In other words: GP hit a nerve.
        
               | klank wrote:
               | Certainly, which is why the social interaction OP
               | described makes sense.
               | 
               | But OP was specific in the loud things they mentioned,
               | and that list very much does not directly imply
               | carpentry. So to then make it about OP's lack of tact by
               | explicitly calling out the OP for focusing on their
               | profession? It strains credulity as a good faith reading
               | of OP's story.
        
             | johnfn wrote:
             | You don't think carpentry falls into the category of
             | "professions that make loud noise outdoors"?
        
               | klank wrote:
               | Sure, and if OP had said that, perhaps we'd be having a
               | different conversation. Or none at all?
               | 
               | EDIT: Ah, maybe you're responding to my remark of it
               | having "nothing to do"? If so, yeah, that's hyperbole.
               | There are similarities if you want to look for them. But
               | I don't think they're meaningful connections for the
               | point of the story and OP's reaction, in my opinion.
        
               | johnfn wrote:
               | The point of the story is that someone tried to strike up
               | a conversation with OP and he responded by effectively
               | saying "your job is loud and obnoxious", and it's
               | presented as if it's a win. It doesn't really seem like
               | one to me.
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | Gasoline powered generators and air compressors that the
             | carpenter might use to power tools can be quite noisy.
        
               | klank wrote:
               | Of course. But we already established that OP struck a
               | nerve. OP themselves said that. And nobody was confused
               | about why they struck a nerve with the carpenter.
               | 
               | But this isn't a conversation about whether or not it was
               | possible to connect from what OP said to "loud noises".
               | We all seem to agree on that. Specifically it's a
               | question of whether OP was targeting the carpenters
               | profession. I can't see how OP did that.
               | 
               | I'm kind of surprised I'm still here arguing this. But
               | hey, it's a slow day and I guess it struck a nerve with
               | me for some reason. Hope you're having a good day too!
        
           | ysavir wrote:
           | I've never seen a carpenter use a lawnmower on the job. Seems
           | unwieldy to drag up a ladder.
           | 
           | On a more serious note, most carpentry tools aren't that bad
           | in terms of noise. They can get loud, but they tend to be
           | momentary, getting a cut done, and back to silence. It's the
           | landscaping companies that are running powered tools right up
           | next to people's houses for 30-40 minutes at a time that are
           | the problem. And by the time one company is done, another
           | arrives and revs their own engines.
           | 
           | As for me ruining his attempt at small talk and insulting his
           | profession... Eh. If someone's idea of small talk is trying
           | to make children appear disrupters of the peace for having
           | fun at camp for 6 weeks out of the year, as children ought to
           | do, I'm not too concerned about making a comment expressing a
           | common and often relatable sentiment that makes that person
           | feel bad about their own disruptions of the peace. To the
           | extent that I "insulted his profession", that was him setting
           | himself up. Don't serve a dish you wouldn't want to eat. He
           | could have made small talk in a hundred different ways or
           | found a way to show appreciation instead of annoyance, but he
           | said what he said, and he set the tone.
        
         | madcaptenor wrote:
         | Also the camp was probably there when you moved in! So if you
         | complain about normal camp noise you just didn't do your due
         | diligence.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | People buy cheap[er] houses near airports and then try to get
           | airport ops changed/restricted _all the time_. (I agree with
           | you, but it's obviously a thing that people have no problem
           | doing.)
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | IANAL, but there's established precedent about this, under
             | the heading of "Coming to the nuisance."
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | Very based. All the people who try to claim that this is bad
         | social skills apparently just take it from folks in the often
         | scummy trades (i.e. mechanics, dentists, etc when I say scummy)
         | who treat us like shit and make snide comments and backhanded
         | compliments with impunity about us lazy computer users. This is
         | triply true in the post AI era. They hate us cus they aint us.
         | 
         | You hit a nerve here too.
        
           | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
           | i think you might be picking up on a level of disdain from
           | others based on your attitude that might not be related to
           | your profession.
           | 
           | we are all extremely lucky to have been born at the right
           | time with the right set of resources to have found work in
           | the information trade. we are not better than mechanics or
           | dentists, and we're often compensated to ridiculous degrees
           | when compared to arguably vital roles like teachers, social
           | workers, therapists, custodial staff, conservation workers,
           | public defenders, farm laborers, and so many other
           | professions.
        
             | scubbo wrote:
             | > i think you might be picking up on a level of disdain
             | from others based on your attitude that might not be
             | related to your profession.
             | 
             | Bravo
        
         | valiant55 wrote:
         | Yeah, I hate lawnmowers. I live next to a church/religious
         | school and an apartment building both with a large yard. I
         | don't mind the daily church bells at 6/12/7 but the constant
         | lawn mowing is the worst.
        
       | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
       | i think this started happening before the "iPad generation" we
       | all love to bemoan, but it seems like practically overnight, kids
       | were no longer expected to play outside (for all the reasons
       | we've heard ad nauseum, especially those that fly in the face of
       | declining violent crime statistics and increased communication
       | media)... and rather than reflect on that, latently-cranky adults
       | adapted immediately to the disappearance of children from public
       | life. what a shame. i grew up one of those kids playing in
       | parking lots and riding bikes through apartment complexes in my
       | neighborhood looking for jumps, cool free piles and generally
       | just places to be a kid.
       | 
       | i hope (not much, but somewhat) that with this increased
       | recognition of the less-desirable effects of throwing kids in
       | front of a screen, indoors, apart from each other, that we'll
       | start to see kids reintegrate into the fabric of society. it's so
       | important for kids to interact with people as they learn about
       | the world, and it seems equally important for adults to realize
       | that they're a part of the same community as parents and
       | children.
        
         | spjt wrote:
         | I wonder how much there is an increased concern about injury, I
         | have three kids and by the time I was their age I had spent
         | more time in the emergency room than all three of them put
         | together. I go to my kids' school from time to time and I don't
         | think I've ever seen a kid in a cast.
        
       | bartread wrote:
       | We have kids of various ages playing outside all the time when
       | the weather is good and, yes, they are loud. At least, sometimes
       | they're loud, but they aren't always, and you get used to it. I
       | think it's good for kids to get outside.
       | 
       | So generally it's not an issue and we just sort of tune it out
       | and get on with our days but there is this one kid who only
       | communicates by screaming at the top of their lungs at very high
       | pitch constantly all day. Literally morning til night.
       | 
       | That gets pretty annoying although, fortunately, the particular
       | kid is not always around. If I knew who the parents were I'd
       | probably have had a polite word with them already because it's
       | just so unnecessary even by the standards of excited and
       | energetic children.
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | For years our neighborhood had an ice cream truck or two turn up
       | a few days a week during summer, which we used to enjoy. This
       | year, not a single one.
       | 
       | I saw one of the trucks at a school fete and asked about it. The
       | guy said _one_ person had complained about the noise so the local
       | council banned them after 7pm! With most of their sales falling
       | between 6-9pm, they decided it wasn 't worth it for one hour and
       | moved on to other local towns.
       | 
       | So not exactly "kids", but I think banning the normal, everyday
       | noises involved in a local culture, whether that's church bells,
       | kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks, is a
       | slippery slope to nowhere positive.
        
         | taylorlapeyre wrote:
         | I agree, but with a caveat about ice cream trucks specifically.
         | If they park in one spot and play the same jingle very loudly
         | for hours on end (say, three to four hours in one location
         | outside of your home), it is in fact insanely maddening.
        
           | johnthedebs wrote:
           | I may be more sound sensitive than most, but if I could hear
           | it _loudly_ for even 5-10 minutes I 'd be annoyed. 3-4 hours?
           | While I'm at home? Absolutely no way; I'd complain too.
        
             | petercooper wrote:
             | In the UK stationary ice cream trucks don't play music,
             | only those travelling around, so you hear it for a couple
             | of minutes at most as it winds around the neighborhood. I'd
             | also be complaining if it was going on for hours :-)
        
           | masfuerte wrote:
           | The UK has rules about this:
           | 
           | https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-
           | practice-...
           | 
           | Among other things, playing the jingle in the same place
           | repeatedly is prohibited.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | At my old house, we had the best ice cream truck. Rather than
           | playing music, it just had like a train bell. Sounded like
           | the ice cream engine was rolling through. Ding.... ding ....
           | ding ....
        
             | loco5niner wrote:
             | That is a vast improvement.
        
           | lapetitejort wrote:
           | Have you heard the ice cream trucks with a random "Hello?"
           | thrown into songs? I don't understand the purpose. Googling
           | brought up some people saying it goes back to the 90s, or
           | that it's specifically a Southern California thing. Strangely
           | enough the movie A Different Man (2024) played that exact
           | sound during an emotional scene. That movie takes place in
           | NYC.
        
             | neaden wrote:
             | I hear the Hello from our local ice cream trucks in
             | Illinois, so not just a California thing.
        
             | tetris11 wrote:
             | I wonder what the copyright licensing is on Frank Mills
             | _Music Box Dancer_ which is quite common on the icecream
             | trucks here
        
               | lapetitejort wrote:
               | Based on the images and knock-off ice cream bars I've
               | seen, ice cream trucks seem to treat copyright as a
               | suggestion
        
             | macNchz wrote:
             | Definitely a thing in NYC--had an ice cream truck that
             | would sit down the block from my place playing music all
             | day long and many years later that "hello" is like nails on
             | a chalkboard.
        
         | gowld wrote:
         | Presumably, the problem was the truck music, not the ice cream
         | sales. There's a market opening for a travelling ice cream
         | seller who doesn't play loud, obloxously noise on loop after
         | 7pm.
        
           | petercooper wrote:
           | Someone else involved in the conversation suggested they
           | could announce their times and locations on Facebook, which I
           | thought was a good idea, but I guess it conflicts with their
           | preference to not have a fixed schedule. They just drive
           | round till they make enough money and then go home when
           | they're bored.
        
             | parpfish wrote:
             | Or just play the jingle on the half hour like church bells
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | Our local ice cream truck plays a very annoying jingle,
           | coupled with a woman's voice saying "Hello?" in an obnoxious
           | way. I haven't complained, because I'm not that kind of
           | asshole, but something about that voice clip feels like
           | stubbing my toe over and over again.
           | 
           | If it were a regular jingle, I'd have no problem. Perhaps one
           | that could be turned down so you don't hear it from halfway
           | across town.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | Was it this one?
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BF88VYRvE
             | 
             | The "hello" is bizarre. It's like something a weapon AI
             | from Metal Gear Solid would do to flush out its enemy.
             | 
             | The tune is also weird. It's not a recognizable folk or
             | children's tune, and it sounds vaguely Japanese, like
             | background music from a Sega Pico game.
             | 
             | If I heard an ice cream truck playing this come down my
             | street, I'd think I was in an episode of Black Mirror, or
             | some sort of analog-horror scenario. I'd do my best to find
             | a good hiding place and avoid being seen. (Maybe crouch in
             | a cardboard box?)
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | I found the tune I linked to. It is, in fact, Japanese in
               | origin: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KpT9mHF7xfE
        
         | thinkingtoilet wrote:
         | It's amazing how much power one person can have if we let them.
         | I would organize people to talk to the people who made the ban
         | and let them know you are unhappy. People pay so little
         | attention to local politics that even an issue like this can
         | result in someone being elected or not being reelected.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | It really is crazy in the USA how much of an overreaction a
           | single, loud, entitled, nosey, complaining neighbor can get
           | with local government: whether it's complaining about kids
           | making noise, complaining about kids playing alone,
           | complaining about traffic, complaining about suspicious black
           | people in their neighborhood, complaining about the length of
           | their neighbor's grass or a car parked in front of their
           | house. You read all these stories about how one complaint
           | resulted in the police being deployed, fines being assessed,
           | innocent people getting in trouble, roads getting speed bumps
           | and 5 all-way stop signs, and other crazy shit happening
           | because some one person couldn't manage to mind their own
           | business.
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | Now imagine a determined AI agent empowered by a nefarious
             | and disgruntled AI researcher.
        
             | jpk wrote:
             | I think part of this is because people often don't appeal
             | to local government unless they've got an axe to grind.
             | Nobody goes to the city council meeting to comment on how
             | everything is great and things are fine the way they are.
             | So when someone shows up to complain about ice cream truck
             | music, the people who are pleased, or at least indifferent
             | about it, don't show up to oppose the complainer, and the
             | signal the council members get is that it's a problem and a
             | city ordinance or whatever is required. There are typically
             | opportunities in the local law-making process to allow
             | someone to oppose the complainer, and it does happen, but
             | few will match the complainer's level of effort. Then if a
             | law makes it on the books, local LEOs become the
             | complainer-class's customer service representatives, and
             | you get what you're describing.
             | 
             | Ultimately, local civic engagement is often what matters
             | most to your day-to-day life, which is good. I think
             | effective and durable self-governance must start at the
             | local level. But we get blasted by media related to
             | national politics at every time and season, to the point
             | that the thought of trying to stay dialed into local
             | government is a non-starter for many. If all the attention
             | we can bear to allocate to politics is monopolized by the
             | national wedge issues of the day, who will muster the
             | volition to save the ice cream truck music?
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | When it comes to government reps that field calls like this,
           | there's some variation of a formula saying for every one
           | phone call translates to X number of people that feel the
           | same way but do not make the call. It used to be different
           | weightings for someone calling vs writing a letter. Either
           | way, it was more a statistics reaction. Not sure if this
           | comes into play or not.
           | 
           | It could also be that the single person that did complain
           | happens to be a close friend or even related to someone else
           | powerful, or is just influential in the area in other ways.
           | That tilts the weighting as well.
        
           | antonymoose wrote:
           | I've grown up in a Hollywood Hillbilly-esque family, one that
           | made it but kept to the original values. That is to say the
           | e've "made it" and live in a highly regarded vacation
           | destination area. Except I grew up learning to stand up to
           | bullies, ne'er-do-wells, and miscreants, if that meant coming
           | to fisticuffs, so be it.
           | 
           | From a young age I learned a fascinating lesson, socially
           | speaking, is that some non trivial percent of the population
           | does not at all mind the proverbial "Karen" causing a ruckus
           | for the community. However, the second you stand up and tell
           | them you don't agree, somehow, you are the one held
           | responsible as the troublemaker.
           | 
           | It's not the initial ruckus causer that matters, it's the
           | conflict causer that does. Too many don't care about change
           | in any way, they care about "the peace."
        
         | loco5niner wrote:
         | Ice cream trucks are specifically obnoxious especially in a
         | neighborhood or a park. I would also complain. They would fit
         | in fine at a carnival or similar.
         | 
         | I've always found it odd that most people would complain if
         | someone sprayed water all over them, but are surprised when
         | people complain the same way about obnoxious noise.
         | 
         | I do live next to an elementary school and enjoy listening to
         | the children playing. Like the article says, that's a natural,
         | even joyful, sound.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Ice cream trucks are a weaponized guilty trip against
           | parents. The kids whine and complain about wanting ice cream
           | and I'm already having a hard enough time modeling good food
           | habits for them. If it were once a month I wouldn't mind, but
           | it's been every day for the last month. Like, dude, nobody
           | needs ice cream that much. Please stop starting an argument
           | in my house.
           | 
           | Incidentally, we just replaced all the windows in our house,
           | and now the kids can't hear the ice cream truck coming, so
           | chalk up one disproportionately expensive W, please.
        
           | dkarl wrote:
           | I agree; I wondered how HN would manage to make the article
           | controversial, and this was the answer, equating the sound of
           | playing children with the sound of intrusive commercial
           | marketing aimed at children.
        
         | alfalfasprout wrote:
         | TBH a lot of it is also a cultural shift toward being selfish.
         | You notice it here in the comments as well.
         | 
         | Combined with "karen" culture, people are more empowered than
         | ever to complain about things. They forget that when they were
         | kids, they'd be loud, play in their neighborhood, and get up to
         | no good :)
         | 
         | It's a real shame, this mentality is what's moved us away from
         | a feeling of community.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I'm not sure about this being a new thing. I also think we've
           | gone too far with the anti-karen whiplash and think
           | everything before that was trendy was perfect. When I was a
           | kid that got up to no good or was just being annoyingly loud,
           | I would hear about it. There's always been an acceptable
           | loud, like kids running around and playfully being loud at a
           | park or playground. Going to the same playground with a loud
           | stereo is not the same thing. You're clearly up to no good as
           | a teen smoking and hanging with your friends. You make it
           | sound like kinds "back in the day" never got into trouble. I
           | can assure you, I, er we, absolutely got in trouble for
           | getting up to no good.
        
             | taeric wrote:
             | Certainly, there were plenty of "dude, really?" moments
             | when kids would go over on limits. It is hard not to think
             | we haven't pushed the limits down to zero, though.
             | 
             | Granted, using smoking as an example is hilarious to me. I
             | confess near zero sympathy for that going away. If
             | anything, I'm pretty sure I'm more dumbfounded that people
             | still smoke in any real numbers.
        
             | sophacles wrote:
             | There's a difference between the neighbor (whom you've
             | almost certainly met) stepping out and saying "hey stop
             | that" or "keep it down", and karen calling the cops. That's
             | the new thing - this insane insistence that children must
             | be kept hidden, and that the authorities must be involved
             | if they are playing in designated play areas, or walking
             | around the block unsupervised, or (heaven forbid) being
             | loud during reasonable daylight hours.
        
           | ectospheno wrote:
           | Complaining about an ice cream truck you can hear in the back
           | of your house while wearing noise cancelling headphones isn't
           | Karen culture.
        
             | gilfoy wrote:
             | It absolutely is. Gettin an ice cream truck banned from
             | your neighborhood because you heard it drive by is the
             | epitome of Karen behavior.
        
               | hombre_fatal wrote:
               | Blasting sound out of your vehicle into a residential
               | area for hours just because you want to sell something is
               | selfish.
               | 
               | So is defending the behavior and imposing it on everyone
               | around you just because it's sometimes convenient for you
               | to walk 10 meters for some ice cream once a month.
               | 
               | Like TFA says, we have to decide as a society what kind
               | of noise we think is worthwhile. The sound of kids
               | playing seems essential for a culture to stay friendly to
               | family development.
               | 
               | But broadcasting an advertisement jingle to neighborhoods
               | because you want to make money, perhaps not.
        
             | earnestinger wrote:
             | Parent is perfectly right.
             | 
             | > cultural shift toward being selfish
             | 
             | I enjoy ice cream so damn all other opinions :)
        
             | sophacles wrote:
             | Yes it is. No Karen thinks she deserves the title... even
             | tho she does.
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | It is downright depressing seeing all of the people pile on
         | regarding the food truck. I can almost understand setting a
         | volume limit on it, if there are some that are going overboard.
         | After all, I'll gripe to my kids for yelling while in the same
         | room with me. But banning or justifying a ban!?
         | 
         | And, I'm fine that we disallow extreme things such as sonic
         | booms. Yes, that should remain banned. For really good reasons.
         | No, that does not extend to sounds of life.
         | 
         | Does it somewhat suck to live near a ball field during playoff
         | season? I guess? Isn't exactly a hidden part of life, though.
         | It also somewhat sucks when the chickens are upset about
         | something out back. Or, heaven help you if you have frogs
         | nearby.
         | 
         | Reminds me of the hilarity of people that want to point out how
         | horrible fireworks are for pets. You aren't wrong, but
         | fireworks are nothing compared to a standard storm in many
         | places. So, maybe tone down the bitching about it a bit?
         | 
         | Edit: Amusingly, I'm currently working from basically under an
         | airport at the moment. Also a very loud place.
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | > is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.
         | 
         | Both you and the author are rankly speculating.
         | 
         | Worse, the author is outright misleading:
         | 
         | > Trying to suppress that energy by demanding silence or
         | defaulting to screens is damaging.
         | 
         | The word "damaging" links to an article by Haidt with evidence
         | of damage from defaulting to screens, but decidedly _not_
         | evidence of damage from demanding silence.
         | 
         | They make the same bait and switch with screen time in a
         | separate paragraph, again with a link to a Haidt article.
         | 
         | I have to say I resent both you and the author for forcing me
         | into having to side with boomers! But you have zero evidence
         | that forcing kids to play sardines instead of tag is
         | detrimental. Given that, I must begrudgingly respect the
         | boomers' grudge and side with your local council's ban (or at
         | least say that it appears innocuous). :(
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | Meanwhile, nobody does anything about all the crotch rockets
         | and douche canoes with exhaust systems deliberately modified to
         | be obnoxiously loud at any hour of the day.
        
       | voxleone wrote:
       | I'm noticing a reversal of social deference:
       | 
       | -Then: Older generations had the cultural authority, and children
       | were expected to conform.
       | 
       | -Now: There's increasing tolerance--and even privilege--granted
       | to children (and parents), sometimes at the expense of quiet,
       | order, or adult comfort.
       | 
       | Hypothesis:                   This shift reflects a society aware
       | of its declining birthrate, where children are becoming scarcer
       | and more symbolically valuable, so institutions (like courts) may
       | reflexively protect or favor youth-centered activity.
        
         | kreco wrote:
         | Sometimes there are properties about generations that get
         | carried "alternatively" as cycles.
         | 
         | The generation that got too much authority will give the next
         | generation more space (louder generation). Then the loud
         | generation will create louder generation and authority will
         | come back, etc.
         | 
         | It's just an example and I don't think the loudness is part of
         | those properties but the abstract mechanism has been observed
         | along few generation (I think this mechanism had a proper name
         | but I cannot find it again).
        
           | junga wrote:
           | > (I think this mechanism had a proper name but I cannot find
           | it again).
           | 
           | Are you referring to the Strauss-Howe generational theory?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-
           | Howe_generational_theo...
        
         | marssaxman wrote:
         | I think it is quite the opposite: what is novel is that this
         | has come before the court at all. Nobody would have dreamed of
         | expecting children to stay inside and be quiet all day during
         | my childhood, nor that of my parents, nor their parents;
         | rather, we were often _made_ to go play outside.
        
       | pizzafeelsright wrote:
       | Kids are mildly annoying but generally there's a time and a
       | place.
       | 
       | I have kids. I love a loud house with quiet time.
       | 
       | Loud children above age 2ish in the movie theater or restaurant
       | are to be behaved because of the proximity of others.
       | 
       | Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk
        
         | timcobb wrote:
         | This. My child can shriek at what really feels like ear-
         | piercing frequencies and decibels.
        
         | Neywiny wrote:
         | One of my favorite stories is a flight with a mom and a few
         | kids. Her oldest started shrieking at some point, likely due to
         | the air pressure change. The mom said something like (calmly)
         | "there's nothing anymore can do about it, so what do you want
         | to happen?" And the kid shut up
        
         | IanCal wrote:
         | > Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk
         | 
         | I think broadly if you're doing something you just need to do,
         | then a kid being a kid (particularly babies) is fine. Even if
         | it's annoying, that's just life. Beyond that you need to pick
         | your place - I'm happy taking my young kids to dinner where
         | there's other kids and noise, I'd not take them to a quiet
         | tasting menu place.
         | 
         | Having said that, someone with an upset baby is probably having
         | a worse time than I am and I can usually just sympathise,
         | sometimes things are more out of someone's control than you
         | think.
        
           | goda90 wrote:
           | I generally understand dealing with an upset kid in public is
           | hard and I sympathize. But I once had a red-eye flight where
           | the kid was screaming for its daddy, who we later determined
           | was on the flight just in a different row. We saw no
           | indication the mother was actually trying to soothe the
           | child, nor did she go get the father. We were not happy to
           | start a vacation with such little sleep...
        
         | progbits wrote:
         | Planes are horrible without noise cancelling headphones for me,
         | which incidentally solves the screaming kid problem too.
        
           | daseiner1 wrote:
           | ear plugs + over-ear n/c headphones + white noise or jazz
           | music playing works great
        
           | pedro_caetano wrote:
           | Indeed I never realized how high the level of the background
           | white noise inside a pressurized cabin really is until I
           | started wearing ANC cup headphones in a plane.
           | 
           | Removing them after a few minutes to talk to someone always
           | feels like I am getting assaulted with noise.
        
           | DrillShopper wrote:
           | I got some earplugs designed for people who deal with sensory
           | issues and they have completely transformed being on a flight
           | from actively annoying to passively acceptable.
           | 
           | Fell asleep for the first time on a plane and I'm never going
           | back.
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | Earplugs are a godsend on flights. I've found one more
             | trick. No caffeine on days when I fly. That way, I fall
             | asleep easily all day long.
        
       | gedy wrote:
       | We seem less tolerant of kids these days, and more tolerant of
       | dogs.
        
         | c22 wrote:
         | The other day an unleashed dog ran into my yard from the
         | adjacent park and the woman escorting it informed me that _I_
         | should build a fence!
        
           | gedy wrote:
           | Yeah I like dogs, but growing up we treated them as a home
           | and backyard pet only, having them run around in neighborhood
           | or bringing to stores or restaurants(!) would have been
           | unthinkable. I really don't get it.
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | I always have a hard time interpreting these stories. Is this
       | really a trend? Or is it an example of someone collecting
       | anecdotes from all around the world and presenting it as a trend?
       | 
       | The internet makes it easier than ever to search for anecdotes
       | around the world that support an idea, but a collection of global
       | anecdotes does not indicate a trend. There are billions of people
       | in the world and some of them are cranky and intolerant.
       | 
       | If we're sharing anecdotes: I've had nothing but positive
       | responses to my kids playing, even loudly. Obviously I'm not
       | taking them to a library, school, or other dedicated quiet place
       | to play, but the overwhelming majority of people in my area smile
       | and laugh when they see kids playing, loudly or not.
        
         | foxglacier wrote:
         | If it was real, they author would have shown some data to
         | support that. So yea, it's just random anecdotes to make it
         | look like there's something for people to be outraged about.
        
         | klank wrote:
         | I'll add to it. My neighbor and I were just recently
         | chitchatting how we love the new family that moved into the
         | neighborhood a few years ago. We love the vibe and color their
         | family adds and it's a large part because they're very visible
         | and audible.
         | 
         | General "kid mayhem" happening all over their yard. It often
         | spills into the street. More than once I have to slow down and
         | wait for the children wailing on their friends with boxing
         | gloves to clear out of the street so I can drive through. It's
         | wonderful. They're close to the entrance of our neighborhood
         | too, which means everybody coming through there is primed to go
         | slow and watch out for kids. It has such a great, calming
         | effect on the overall neighborhood.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | People complaining about being disturbed by kids playing is at
         | least as old as I am, and probably has existed since about 5
         | minutes after the first kid was born.
        
       | eggsandbeer wrote:
       | No.
        
       | BrenBarn wrote:
       | Kids playing is great, but I think this article glosses over some
       | important wrinkles.
       | 
       | A big one I see is that some parents seem incapable of
       | distinguishing between "there are times when it is okay for my
       | child to play noisily" and "my child's activities and/or noise
       | level should never be restricted". Playing in a park is great ---
       | that's what parks are for! Playing in your yard, or an apartment
       | courtyard or the like, great. Playing on the sidewalk is fine. .
       | . but remember that sidewalks are also for people to walk on, so
       | if someone comes by the kid needs to realize that they should let
       | them pass. But then we have parents who come into stores and let
       | their kids grab things from shelves and play with them in the
       | middle of the floor, and so on.
       | 
       | Part of accepting and embracing play is understanding that not
       | every moment is playtime, and that even within playtime there can
       | be subcategories with different expectations.
       | 
       | This article frames it in terms of noise, but in my experience a
       | lot of the issues people have with noise are really issues about
       | parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids,
       | and teach their kids that behavior --- not just noise, but
       | everything --- has to be adjusted for different situations.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | > _parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their
         | kids_
         | 
         | Absolutely.
         | 
         | Kids being loud when playing football or at the beach is fine
         | and even expected.
         | 
         | Letting your kids run around the theater is not fine. You're
         | ruining the experience for everyone.
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | There's a difference between being loud in public vs privately.
       | As a kid, I was never allowed to be loud in a restaurant, unless
       | it was a restaurant for kids--and even then up to a reasonable
       | limit
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | Yes, go ahead. Be loud and play outside. But I'm pretty sure I
       | have misophonia, so just be loud somewhere not near me.
        
       | didibus wrote:
       | Kind of interested for someone to look into if hearing children
       | noise is healthy, I could imagine it actually affecting one's
       | hormonal response and such, but also maybe not.
        
         | klank wrote:
         | Anecdotally, children making "children noises" is calming for
         | me.
         | 
         | It was not until after I was a parent myself though. Like many
         | things in life, once I had the connection in my own personal
         | life, it is now very easy and automatic for me to empathize and
         | support other children. It feels deep, like more an automatic
         | response.
        
         | KolmogorovComp wrote:
         | No. I thought it was widely known that kindergarten employees
         | suffer from earing loss due to repeated exposure to high sound
         | level from the screaming kids.
        
       | rock_artist wrote:
       | As we're in tech, loud or noise are very implicit and can really
       | range.
       | 
       | Reading this on Amsterdam, I know many others countries where
       | there won't be such a discussion at all about a soccer field
       | outside a building.
       | 
       | I come from a place where children and the population is noisy
       | due to many factors. every time we went as family on a holiday
       | (With dutch people as an example), I saw my children become less
       | and less vocal only to become loud as they were once we were back
       | home.
       | 
       | Recently, we've relocated to Spain. It's only a few months but
       | still, I thought my children would get become less noisy similar
       | to what we saw on holidays after a while...
       | 
       | But nothing changed, and also hearing other children here,
       | they're in the same "noisy" levels as my kids.
       | 
       | So there's also a cultural aspect that needs to be considered
       | about what is loud or how children are expected to behave, add
       | immigration to that and cultural differences and you got so many
       | factors.
        
       | tetha wrote:
       | Hm. I think I am encountering cultural differences here, again.
       | Personally, I have a point from my grandma in my head: "If your
       | ears are ringing from happy, playing children, that's future in
       | your ears. That's good". For sure, within reason, but a huge
       | ruckus in the shared backyard or playground between 08:00 or
       | 20:00 due to kids?
       | 
       | That's what kids to.
       | 
       | I rather get worried if they abruptly stop, or start yelling
       | differently. I don't even have kids, but I'll still take a look
       | wether a kid of a neighbour mananged to add a temporary third
       | joint to their arm, is bleeding a worrying amount or something
       | like that.
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | I was just writing two days ago about how ADHD is overdiagnosed
       | and our system is just set up to try to coerce kids to be
       | convenient for the system:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44490274
       | 
       | There I put forward some proposals at the end
        
         | burnt-resistor wrote:
         | I have under-diagnosed ADHD because my father was a Fox News
         | disciple, science-hating, arrogant bigot who believed ADHD was
         | a "conspiracy" of anti-male leftists.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | Free noise cancelling airpods for all. I don't hear anything
       | anymore.
        
         | burnt-resistor wrote:
         | WHAT!? ;)
        
       | YorickPeterse wrote:
       | There's kids being noisy, which in itself isn't much of a
       | problem, and then there's _Dutch kids_ being noisy, with the
       | latter sounding more like a bunch of roosters at a heavy metal
       | concert.
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | Thankfully this is not a problem in Spain (I think this is either
       | a southern European thing or Spanish thing). Kids share adult
       | spaces all the time being it restaurants, bar, plazas or other
       | spaces. I would not trade this for the world. In general the
       | country is a very welcoming one for children in public spaces
       | including active children.
        
       | theultdev wrote:
       | I don't really see any need to take parental advice from a blog.
       | 
       | Not going to give advice either as we all have our own methods,
       | but it's more or less the opposite of what this person is saying.
       | 
       | Doesn't mean letting them sit mindlessly in front of screens, but
       | screen time is okay as long as they are creating, not consuming.
       | 
       | That has nothing to do with their noise levels though. There's a
       | time and place. Outside with friends, yeah sure be loud within
       | reason. In public around strangers? You better shut the hell up.
        
       | strathmeyer wrote:
       | Our dorm was next to a playground in college. It was impossible
       | to sleep in. They were literally just screaming at the top of
       | their lungs for hours at a time. I guess it's different when it's
       | someone else's day you're ruining.
        
       | dpifke wrote:
       | A few months back, my wife and I had our windows open and heard
       | some neighbors' kids playing drums and guitar in their garage.
       | They were TERRIBLE.
       | 
       | We're sad we haven't heard them again recently. I was hoping to
       | follow along as they got better.
        
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